Episode 67 - Natalie Hemby - Carousel

Natalie Hemby secured her first publishing deal at the age of 19, laying the foundation for a stellar career as one of the most sought-after songwriters in the music industry. With her songs recorded by top artists like Kacey Musgraves, Maren Morris, Sheryl Crow, Miranda Lambert, Lady Gaga, Yola, Dierks Bentley, Rag'n'Bone Man, Lady A, Kelly Clarkson, Little Big Town, Labrinth, and many others, she has proven herself to be an undeniable talent. In 2021, she released her second solo album, Pins and Needles, produced by her husband and longtime collaborator, Mike Wrucke. As part of The Highwomen, alongside Brandi Carlile, Maren Morris, and Amanda Shires, Hemby won a GRAMMY® Award for Country Song of the Year, “Crowded Table.” Billboard has recognized her as “one of Nashville’s strongest creative figures.” In this episode, we discuss a song she wrote with Miranda Lambert called “Carousel” and listen to the original worktape of that song.

Listen to Carousel by Miranda Lambert

Listen to Natalie Hemby

Listen to Highwomen

Nataliehemby.com

Worktapes is Produced by Brandon Carswell
Film & Editing by Brandon Carswell & Russ Loyd
Additional Production Assistance by Jonas Litton
This episode was filmed at Sound Stage Studios in Nashville, TN
Episode intro music written by Brandon Carswell & produced by Micah Tawlks - "Back To Us"
Cover Art by Mid Century Western
Worktapes show logos designed by Harrison Hudson 
**All songs used by permission**

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
You've heard him, you love him, a voice that has
peppered your memories. For two nights, July eleventh and twelfth,
Dave Barnes, Please lovether bring the sun the eleventh and
what we want when we get on the twelfth in
their entirety with the band, come experience joy, laughter and

(00:23):
the beauty of music.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
We'll see you there. Welcome to Work Tapes. This is
a podcast where we tear up our songs. Why with
a song written? What's it about? What's the context and
emotion behind it? Where were you at the time, what

(00:47):
were you going through? How did certain lines come to you?
What's the inspiration? How long did it take to write?
I'm Brandon Carswell and I'm fascinated with a songwriting and
how songs are built from the ground up. It's easy
to hear a full production song on the radio and
dismiss it to origin story. I want to hear the
rough raft of the song or the work take. I

(01:09):
want to explore the very beginning house songs that move
us and make us move are more. Welcome to Work
Tapes everyone. This is Brandon as usual. I'm really excited
about today's guest, so stoked that she agreed to be here.

(01:32):
I'm going to go through. It'd be easier for me
to tell you what she hasn't done than to tell
you all that she's accomplished. But she got her first
pub deal at nineteen. She has since become one of
the most sought after songwriters in the music industry. Her
songs have been brought to life by an impressive list
of household names, including Casey Musgrave's, Maren Morris, Cheryl Crow,

(01:55):
Miranda Lambert, Lady gut Got, Derek S. Bentley, Kelly Clarkson,
Little Bit Town, and many more. As a member of
High Women with Brandy Carlile, Maren Morris, Amanda Shires, they
or she even earned a Grammy for a Country Song
of the Year Crowded Table. It's clear why Billboard calls

(02:17):
her one of the Nashville's most creative figures. And today
we're going to discuss a song she wrote with Miranda
Lambert called Carousel and listened to the original work tape,
Welcome Natalie.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Hemby, Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Hopefully I got all that right, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
It's actually it's much longer, but that'll have to do today.
I'm just teasing.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
No, that's true. Actually, no, I had to consolidate the list.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Well, people just also don't know that I'm super old,
so your list gets longer as you get older.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
So you've been at this for a long time. And
first of all, thank you for doing this.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Oh, I'm so honored to be here.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
I was stoked to have kind of accidentally met you
at a show that you played with Jason Nixx, my
one of my good friends, mutual friend of ours. Yes,
and what a treat that was for me to be
there with you guys and watch that. It was like
a back and forth riders round just the two of you.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, I mean we're basically up there trying to be
you know, Johnny Cash and June Carter, but maybe just
a you know, a much lesser version. But we had
a great time.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, it was a cool show and it was it
was like an intimate show, so there was nobody behind
the scenes but us backstage, and I felt pretty honored
to I was kind of accidentally there. I thought me
and Jason were going to dinner, guess because I got
to do this thing first and then we'll go to dinner.
And I okay, so I end up back there with

(03:47):
you guys, and there's like no heat in the building
and we're freezing.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yeah, it was pretty cold. And I also I was
really happy you were there too.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Guys.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Honestly, I would have just rather stayed back stay to
talk to you because you're from Nashville, and I know
you haven't always lived in Nashville, but there's just so
few of us who remembers what it was like back
in the day before you know, all these tall buildings
came along, and I mean used to be able to
see the skyline and now you just see the tops

(04:17):
of these yes, magnificence.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
See all these crazy people everywhere.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
I know, it's it's a blessing and a curse. For sure.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
There should be some kind of podcasters show about what
Nashville used to be, like, I feel like it would
be interesting to me.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
I feel like if that were the case, we would
have to do it because there are some people though,
here are some great historians who you know, they know
where people some of the celebrities used to live, and
I mean they were here when they used to Conway
Twitty had a I had a Twitty City. It was
like a theme park and then Johnny Cash had his

(04:53):
own little museum out here, and I don't know, it
was just it was a different time. It was really
small all and manageable.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah. My kid time was like the eighties, so opry
Land was full.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Swing, full swing.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, And I remember those rides and like, there's so
many things I remember. But we can't get off on
that because no one will know about it.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Nobody will know I know, and.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
We'll talk about that later. I do want to get
into a little bit of your background. I want to
talk about a lot of things, but we're not gonna
have time for everything. I want to find out. Obviously,
this show is about songwriting, and I want to know
what led you into it. So I know you have

(05:36):
a background with your dad being a studio musician. Was
that the thing that kind of hooked you in, like
being around all of that at a young age. Did
you know as a kid you wanted to be a writer?

Speaker 3 (05:50):
I did, Actually, no, I've ticked about I did not.
I When I was a kid, I used to write
dumb songs that were really funny, just to make people laugh.
And I'm still doing that to this day. But my dad, yeah,
he came here. My dad is from southeast Missouri. My
mother's from southern Illinois, and they got married really young,
and they had me when they were twenty and twenty two.

(06:12):
And so my dad he got a job playing guitar
with the Imperials, which was like they were, like they
were super popular back in the seventies and the eighties,
and it's almost a right of passage if you came
to Nashville, you at least had to play with Imperials
one time. So my dad played with them and we
moved here and my mom. I was a very sick

(06:35):
child whenever I was born. I was born actually without
thirty percent of my hearing, but my parents didn't know
that until I wasn't like in first grade and had
a huge tumor on my ear and they didn't know it.
And my piano teacher was the one who told them.
She said, she's very smart, but she can't hear me.
And so I had surgery. But during this time, my

(06:57):
mom she worked for an insurance company and she lost
her job. I was in the hospital all the time.
So my dad, during that time, he got a job
playing with this new and up and coming Christian artist.
Her name was Amy Grant, and so he started. He
went on the road with her and he played with her.
And my mom used to clean houses and do people's
nails on the side, and she started to clean Amy's

(07:19):
house and then she noticed, like, wow, you really could
use somebody to help you organize your life, your personal life, like,
and I'm really good at doing this kind of stuff.
Why didn't you hire me? And she did, and she's
been with her now for forty years. So I grew
up in all of these music camps of people. I

(07:41):
went to a church that had a lot of music
Christian music artists there and a lot of country music
artists that went there too. And I know you did too,
but it was very influential as as to I loved
music because of that. You know, Amy was a huge
inspiration because she was so I love the way Amy's saying.

(08:02):
I loved the tone of her voice. It was like
somebody was talking to you. And I related a lot
with her tone and all that kind of stuff, because
she wasn't like a big Molissima singer. And so I
basically I just started paying attention. I learned her songs
on piano, and I started paying attention to like the
words and the cadence and all that kind of stuff.
And I started writing my own little songs on the piano,

(08:26):
and that's kind of how it all came about, really is.
And I would get in trouble because that was I
don't know, I was just forgetful and my room is
always messy. But my parents would send me to my
room and I would be like, cool, I'm just gonna
go play a piano all day, you know, And That's
what I would do. But I've always loved music, but

(08:46):
I did not think of myself as being a songwriter
right off the bat.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Well, what was the thing? Like? What drew you in? Then?
So you're writing your own little songs. You said they
were dumb little songs, but why Like what was the spark?
Like you wanted to be? Like what you were watching
in your town or who you were around. You saw
Amy Grant, you saw Yeah, I mean we grew up
at the same church, and being at that church specifically

(09:14):
every time you're there watching music is incredible.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
It was like a people. You didn't just sing in
that choir. We had some of the most talented like
people singers, crazy singers.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, But at the time when you're a kid. You
don't even you're not picking up on how good it is.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
No, I didn't know.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
So was it like, do you you're like I want
to be like that like her, or I'm just doing
what is around me kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
I didn't really know. I just wanted to be I
just started doing it, you know. I wasn't really like
I want to be like somebody. I mean, I loved
Wittie Houston. I loved all of these different types of artists.
I honestly didn't click with me until probably high school, okay,
till my senior year. My senior year, I won this
thing called Grammys at the schools and we basically each

(10:05):
state gets to try out. You have a choir and
you have a band. And I tried out for choir
and I made it for Tennessee. And actually, it's so funny.
Brandon Heath made the first year. Wow, Yeah, he's got
a funny story how he went and introduced himself to Sting.
It's really funny. Anyways, But I won for the second year,
and I was just we sang at all the Grammys

(10:27):
parties and we sang it all the we did like
we got to work with Kenny Loggins and then we
worked for with All For one the guys is sing I.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Swim Oh yeah, that song sometimes catches me.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Oh same. It's like so cheesy. It's great, you know,
but it's such as is such a hug, it is
such a smooth arm music. But after I came back
from that, I was like, Okay, you know what, I
really want to write songs. I want to do this.
And so I was listening to Sarah McLaughlin and she
wasn't huge at the time. It was that funneling towards

(11:07):
the Ecstasy record, and I was like, I'm going to
write really dark and mysterious songs. And so I started
doing that and people started to take interest, probably because
I was just so young and they were like, wow,
maybe she could write someday. But Barbara Orbison was my
first publisher, and she was a very interesting woman. She
was She's from Germany, she's married to Roy Oberson, she

(11:30):
had more money than God, and basically but she loved music.
She loved music, and she signed me. It's so funny
because she's like, Natalie, I'm going to give you a
piece of advice in the music business. I want to
tell you that love is money. If somebody loves you,
they will give you lots of money. And I said,

(11:52):
how much do you love me, Barbara? She loved me
kind of like medium. Yeah she paid you an.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's funny.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
She's great.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
So you got a publishing deal at nineteen years old.
So did you feel like immediately like you belonged here,
like in this world of songwriting? Like what was that?
What was that story? You said? You wrote kind of
dark and my serious songs.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, I was caught between like I thought I was
just amazing and I really suck at this, like it
was right there. It was kind of extremes. There were
some there were some great song ideas if I look
back at it, but I think I was just greened
to the business even though I grew up in it.
I didn't like Nashville for a long time. Yeah, this

(12:42):
is my hometown, and I was just like, I've seen
all the I didn't know it's behind the curtain. And
I think if there was one thing I struggled with
was being just a little bit jaded at such an
early age because I'm like, oh, that's so and so
who cares, Yeah, but never realizing that, oh my gosh,
that's so and so that's a big deal. At By
High School, we graduated at the Grand Wall Opperty stage.

(13:05):
But I mean I could care less. I just wanted
to get out of high school. And I always thought
I would be in Los Angeles, and I wanted to
move to New York. I just had my sights set
on bigger places. But I one time I was asked
to write about Nashville and and what it meant to me,
and I described it like I used to not pay

(13:25):
attention to her, and then I came, I went, I
went away, and I came back and I fell in
love with her. I went to Los Angeles and I
came back and realized how good I had it. But
then I realized how much she changed, and she became
an overnight star and something I didn't really recognize, and
I just I kind of regret, you know, having taken

(13:46):
advantage of so much back in the day, because it
was a really it was pretty magnificent, both in country
and Christian music. I mean, even when I think about
the niche of Christian music music, it was like there
was so much great music at the time. It was
kind of blew my mind. When I go back and
listen those.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Your first publishing years were like nineties.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yeah, it was like ninety seven, okay, ninety eight.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, I was not here during that time, but I
remember earlier, like like eighty nine in some early nineties,
but it was much more of a sleepy town. Oh
it was. So it makes sense to me that you're like,
who cares about Oh?

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, I was like, this is this is small town stuff,
you know, And look and Los Angeles is I mean
your dreams either go there to grow or to die.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
So I just quickly realized that this is I cannot
fit in here. This is not my place, but I
do like to go back and work there.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Were you were you like obsessed with songwriting when you
first went into like that for your job? Were you
were you like in high school? Were you all in?

Speaker 3 (15:06):
No? I was in no. Not in high school. I
didn't really get all in until I went to Belmont
for a year and a half. I did not take
they didn't have songwriting classes back then. Yeah, but I
just took commercial music. I barely went to school at Belmont,
but I during that time I wrote. They have these
piano practice rooms and I would just spend hours in
their writing songs. Okay, So that's kind of where it started.

(15:28):
And then I started writing with other people. I started
playing at coffee shops, and you know, I met Daniel
Tashan years ago. We played at the Gibson Cafe together
on Broadway. I mean, I think I was probably about
twenty and he was like twenty one or twenty two,
and he was he had had a record deal, and

(15:50):
I was like, oh my gosh, you're so great. He's
probably my longest friend that I've had in Nashville.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, but it's like it was.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
It was a small enough town to where you could
live and kind of figure out which you wanted.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Did you want a record deal or did you just
want to write for other people.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
I wanted a record deal. I wanted to be the
next Cheryl Crow because the world needed another one. I'm
I'm like, I related. I loved Cheryl Crow's music so much.
I just related to I loved I loved rock and roll,
I loved Tom Petty. That was what I wanted to do.

(16:28):
But it was weird because during this time, it was
like TV artists started coming out and it was the
dawning of the Britney Spears era. And boy bands, and
then it was like you had to have a reality
television show or be on a reality TV show in
order to get a record deal. I mean, I just
went through all the phases, and then it was like

(16:50):
then for a while there, it was like we're not
selling CDs. You got a stream well, you know, you
got to get on iPods, and it just the evolution
just kept it kept changing, you know. So I it
was not that I I had a lot of people
who loved what I did, but nobody really jumped on it,
and I got tired of it.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Seems like in the late nineties, some of our early
two thousands, even some of like that Americana Tom Petty
Sheryl Crow vibes were like not in the front scenes
at all anymore.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
No, I mean you kind of already had that movement
between Sean Colvin, you know, Tracy Chapman, give me one reason.
I remember Joan Osborne was huge at the time, and
that was the moment, that was when. But the problem
is I got in the tail end of that, and

(17:45):
so people were already looking, like I said, it was
like Britney Spears, the Spice Girls, Christina Aguilera and Jessica
Simpson and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
So that was not me.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
It's all good.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I mean the record you put out, Pens and Needles,
I mean that one to me sounds like that era
of music.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
Well that makes me happy to hear you say that,
because that is I've literally put that record out for
that very reason. Like I was like, this is the
record I never got to make during that time. So yeah,
and it's so weird how you get to make records
now pretty easy. Were back in the day. You had
to have a record deal, you had to have budget,
you had to have all these players and all these people.

(18:29):
But you can do it at home now.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
It is so.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Pens and Needles. I think my favorite song on there
is Banshee. It's like a Black Keys kind of.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Vibe totally, and I love I wrote Banshee with Miranda
Oh really, just me and her and I love story songs,
so but it felt kind of rock and roll and
dark and it just had a vibe to it. But
it was it was a lot of fun to write.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Do you think story songs that are dying out? No,
I don't don't.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
I'm trying to think of ones right now that are
really popping off, but maybe like Noah Kahan, like he's
you know, there's there's all kinds of like I.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Mean, like dying out in the sense like mainstream, like
they're not doing what they used to do, you know,
like the old Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson kind of story
songs that were more mainstream.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
I mean, perhaps they always find their way back, though
I feel like.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
They're my favorite favorite always my favorite songs is the story.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Same, and honestly, I do think that I think what
it is is you just have to write a really
good one, you know, that is something that people want
to listen to. But those are, if you think about it, though,
those are still some of the most popular story of
popular songs, Jolene. You know, I'm trying to think even

(20:03):
like I mean, gosh, Johnny Cash is boy named Sue,
That's such a great story song. There's just like so
many different Willie Nelson I know has a few of them.
I just can't think.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
But I think that I think a lot of songs
that I hear now or even write myself, are like
you tend or I tend to go more general in
the story where I'm using words like you and I
and her and him.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Well that's the most relatable.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Right, But then you've got like a boy named Sue
or this Carousel song we're going to talk about today
using names, and you're writing a whole story and there's
imagery and it's.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
Well, it's very you know. John Prime was always great
with the story, you know. I Also my other two
favorite people is Gillian Welsh and Dave Rollins.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yes, I actually I'm a fanatic for them.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
Same are you one to their shit? But you need
to go to their show to come and play may
at the Rhymen.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
But it's probably still not already.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
I don't know if it is, but if it's not,
you need to go. So my favorite song is Elvis
Presley Blues. There's I feel like it's just a masterpiece
because first of all, you have the way they play
the song in the blues and it sounds like a
blues music box that's playing over and over again and
it's almost like a trance that you're put in. And

(21:31):
what I love about that song is it's like it
sounds a very American songbook, Americana soan book, but it's
like honoring an American legende, iconic legend, Elvis Presley. Yes,
and it's like the lyrics.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
You know, I was thinking last night about Elvis day
did he Die?

Speaker 3 (21:52):
Day? Did he Die? I just feel like it's such
a beautiful story song like yes.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
But that again is an example of like, oh, this
is not going to be a radio song. It's like
five minutes long, but it's a it's like a song.
It's like a songwriter's like you're just dream Yes, it
is like a song, lover, I guess is what I
would say is like, that's just a masterpiece.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
It is a masterpiece, and it's fun to play it
for people who've never heard it before. Because I haven't
played it for one person who has not liked it
or loved it, I should say, yeah, sound.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
It's so great. I mean I could talk about their
records all day to me too. Oh my gosh, Carousel,
let's talk about Carousel. You wrote this with Miranda Lambert
and Luke Dick. This is definitely a storytelling.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Song, definitely a storyteller.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
And it sounds like on the well, maybe we should
listen to the work tape and then we'll get into it. Okay, cool, yes, Okay.

Speaker 5 (23:12):
Pretty lingen, my fair lady, she walked her while at
her back in the eighties, feathers and sequence shine likes
Chandy hanging from the top ten rafters to the spot

(23:32):
not to speak, harlingy, honey, what is that to see
her way?

Speaker 6 (23:48):
The trust was on the twenty food tricky.

Speaker 7 (23:53):
She felt so hard because he always let her.

Speaker 6 (23:57):
Fly till he lived her suspended in the cotton candy sky.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
She's still don't the life.

Speaker 6 (24:10):
Every shot musting, every circus lies down.

Speaker 5 (24:16):
You don't know the magic's going until lots go down.

Speaker 6 (24:21):
Now she's back in the dogs and I hear she's
doing with.

Speaker 7 (24:27):
She only misses Harman and she's scuself pretty made herself
a news, her secrets and her sequence.

Speaker 6 (24:49):
Buried in the cedar ships.

Speaker 5 (24:53):
Your one around here knows.

Speaker 6 (24:55):
About her other Johnny Davis, when leave her, mama, Maybe.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
That's all right?

Speaker 7 (25:09):
Every show musty, every sir, guess, please tell you don't.

Speaker 6 (25:16):
Know magic's going to last go down?

Speaker 4 (25:21):
Now she's back and neck, oh.

Speaker 6 (25:23):
Jez, and I hear she's doing well.

Speaker 4 (25:27):
She only missed her and she used a carosite canny
fair me said.

Speaker 5 (25:51):
She walks the midway and she smiled, and she even.

Speaker 6 (25:59):
Every show, ohmsdy, every Sircus sees down. I didn't know
the magic lesting to lasting down. Now I'm back and
neck bilges and I'm where I'm doing you.

Speaker 5 (26:17):
I only miss my hug when I hear okay to sing,
you only miss my homely when I hear you.

Speaker 4 (26:27):
Can't you soon?

Speaker 2 (26:31):
One thing I love about this work tape is the
bug sounds.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Oh they were alive and well that night.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yes, So take us through, give us a picture of
what was going on. Okay, where did the story come from? Yeah,
all of this thing, all the things.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
Well, the reason why I also chose this is one
of my favorite songs that I've written. And no, it
was not a big hit, and it's the last song
on the record of last songs on records, so I
did a record. It was basically a love story to
my grandparents' hometown called Puxico. Yes, and there was a

(27:11):
little town in Southeas, Missoura, called Puxico and that's they
have a fair every year there. It's called Homecoming. And
then they've been doing it for like almost eighty years,
like the same time every year, and they have square
dancing and carnival rides. How do you even get carnival
rides to a small town. But anyways, I did this
record called Puxico, and Marianna she always loved that record,
and she told me, she was like, I've met these

(27:34):
people that have a family circus and they let me
they have like the ferris wheels and they had all
the rides up in the big top ten or whatever.
She said. It was just crazy because I had my
I had my phone with me in my ear my earbuds,
and She's like I was walking around listening to record
and I was riding the ferris wheel and it was

(27:55):
just so magical, you know. And so we actually we
were sitting out we were writing during COVID during this
time out at her farm because we couldn't go anywhere,
and she has a dreamy farm in the middle of nowhere, Tennessee,
and we were out there. It was I think it
was in either August or September. But the leaves are

(28:17):
starting to fall and but the bugs are still going.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Like crazy next summer.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
Yeah, So we basically were on the back porch and
we started talking about what kind of song we want
to write, and I was like, you know, what we
should write a we should pick up something from that
feeling that you got whenever you were, you know, with
that fam at the circus or whatever. So we just
literally we built this whole song up from the ground

(28:45):
and Luke was playing that beautiful guitar part on there,
and she started singing pretty Lena.

Speaker 4 (28:53):
My fair lady, you know she walked the high back
in the.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Eighties, and line by line started going through each like line,
just building this little script. And it's so funny to
me because this song represents to me, like the music business.
It's like we all have these really amazing the music

(29:21):
business is so turbulent, and music is so fun and
death defying in some ways, but it doesn't last forever,
you know. And it's so funny because we all have
these things in our life where we had these beautiful,
amazing moments that were wild and crazy rides, but we

(29:45):
have to go and live a good normal life, if
you will, because the ride can't last forever. And to me,
I always think about this song as being such a
picture perfect. I just know this doesn't last forever. But
I always remember writing this song on that back porch
with my friends. Yeah, and every show must in every

(30:08):
circus leaves town. You don't know the magic's gone until
the lights go down. But the parts that I love
about it are the personality, Like now I'm back in
Nagadocha's and I swear I'm doing well. I only miss
my Harlan when I hear the carousel. Basically, she fell
in love with someone when she was at the circus,

(30:29):
and then he broke her heart and she left and
she started a family. Johnny Davis is an actual place
on her property.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
And then.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
I actually know Johnny Davis and Pucksico, Missouri really well,
so we were like, that's a perfect name. Yeah, there's
just so much, so many layers to the song.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
I love that. I love that you just made it
up off of an idea, Like it wasn't like I
know that things are inspired obviously from maybe her walking
around that fair or whatever, but being able to script

(31:13):
out an actual person who doesn't exist, make them real,
make them like, here's one side of this person's life
that they used to live, and now here's here's the
they had to settle down and get real. Yeah, and
that's a real story in people's lives.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
It is, especially in any music town you go to, In.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Any town, I think I would argue that point, like
it's like, yes, you might grow up in a family
that you know, like you're very pressured into settling down quickly. Yes,
but maybe in your mind, Yeah, I used to be
younger and I used to think about this or I
used to do this, and I used to whatever.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Well, and we all like we all have these times
where we look back on our lives where we're like, wow,
I was really great at one I really did that,
didn't I And I miss it, but I can't ever
go back to it, right, Like to me, that is
just the deepest longing of.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Well, that's what the song was to me, was like
we all have like different facets of our life, right,
like all of us do. And I used to be
someone else, but now I've grown or I've gotten worse.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
Or whatever, or just you know, life happens, it changes,
you know. Yeah, athletes get injured, you know, people lose
their voice, right, things happen, you know, people will get cancer,
you know, or they have someone they need to take
care of.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
It's like.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
You did the ride doesn't last forever, but you got
to you got to experience it for a minute, yeah,
you know, and you got to do something cool maybe yes,
you know, on the front side or maybe the end
of it.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
But my favorite line in this song as the parts.
It says, she felt so hard because he always let
her fly till he let her hearts left her heart
suspended in a cotton candy sky. Yeah, like, what a
brilliant picture.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Well, and also, I mean I remember when we were
writing this, the sun was setting and it literally looked
like a cotton candy sky. I'm pretty sure Miranda wrote
the cotton candy skyline.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Whoever wrote it. It's so good and it just immediately
set your mind into like the circus setting, yes, trappez.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
And there's something so intriguing about the sergus too, isn't there. Yeah,
it's sort of like, I don't know, it's just like
it's it's like a symbol of like the wonder of
your youth, you know, and also like doing things that
you just never thought you could do.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, it's like a miss. It's like a mystery to
normal people. It's like this mystery misty is playful.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, wonderland if you will, Yeah, but you have to
pack it up and move it along. Yeah, it's so weird,
but it's so weird.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
But it's good.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
It's so good.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
The chords. I love the chord structure of this song. Yeah,
as my brother says, they sound like expensive chords, like
they're just moving around into these not what you expect movements.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Well, that is definitely that's Luke Dick. He is very
musical and intentional with he loves. He actually grew up
very like punk, rock and roll, like he has a
deep knowledge of all of that. But he also is
He's from Oklahoma. He's a country boy at heart. You know.

(34:48):
It's like it's just a nice combination of too. But
one thing I love about Luke is that his guitars
are never like I don't like polished, perfect guitars, and
some people do, and that's fine, but it's always like
it sounds like he literally just grabbed his guitar. We're
sitting around a fireplace and he started playing these It
sounds like something like to me that Willie Nelson would

(35:10):
want to play or something, you know. Yeah, and I
was grateful, I mean he came up with those chords.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
And yeah, but I think a lot of your songs.
I went through a bunch of stuff this week to
prep for this, and a lot of your stuff is
not like what I would call like normal movements and
chord patterns. I feel like you and you can tell
me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
No, that's the biggest compliment ever I feel I was like,
I don't know, I'm just going to juicy do again.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
But sometimes that's okay also, but I feel like you
make your intentional about Like when I hear them, I'm thinking, oh,
she's probably thinking she doesn't want this song be boring.
She doesn't want the movement to be a bore I don't.
But at the same time, like I'll catch myself, Like
I wrote a song the other day that's literally like
a ebuh yeah, eb a yeah, like an old country song. Yeah,

(36:05):
but I only did it because I liked the feeling
of it with the lyric.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, well, it has to match lyric, right, But it's.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Not a unique song at all as far as chord structure.
It's like a million Johnny Cash songs or whatever. But
I don't I didn't care.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
No, No, it has to work with it definitely has
to work with the lyric and the melody, right, I
mean you can't be writing a song. I mean you
can't write a song with those chords and Carousel and
it's called Ooh Girl, I Love you Right? Yeah, yeah, well,
I mean I guess you could, but yeah, I just
feel like it beckons for something brilliant, something different.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
You know, do you know pretty quickly in a co
write if it's gonna work, Like, if it's gonna gel.
Let's say it's somebody you haven't written with yet, I.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Would say, yeah, I'm pretty quickly. I mean, I'm just
I've been writing for so long that I can power through.
I've definitely been.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
In rooms where it's uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
Well, like I already don't even like it, and I'm
not going to fight it. It's like it just depends
on who's in the room, if there's another person, If
it's three ways, then it's like if the other person
is feeling more on my side of things, thinking I'm
totally I'll fight for it. But if it's two against one,

(37:32):
I'll just go with it, right, And you know, sometimes
you have to. I've written so many some people are
I feel like artists are more precious with their songs
because they're about to go sing it, they're about to
But when you're just a songwriter and you're writing all
the time, if you can learn not to be so
so precious, it depends, I'd be precious about the artists

(37:54):
that you really love working with. That's what I feel like.
But I mean, you know, sometimes you write just to
get through the day. I mean, I hate to say it.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
But would you still write. Let's say it wasn't your career,
would you do you think you would still be like
obsessed about it? Would you still do it?

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (38:17):
I actually I found that out. Like I wrote for
a long time, I was trying to get a record deal,
and I finally was just like, I need to get
a job because I need health insurance. So I got
a job at Comcast, And while I was there, I
still wrote songs Like I can't help it. It doesn't
if I work at Walgreens, I'm gonna be writing songs

(38:37):
even if nobody listens to them. It's just something that
somebody you can't help but do. It's like just because
you can't play football anymore doesn't mean you don't want
to throw the ball.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Does the success of it mess with that at all?
That like ethic of Like I love the craft of writing,
and now I've got this, now that I've had successful songs.
I feel like this pressure to write a certain way,
like I feel like that. I feel like that would

(39:07):
mess with me.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
I feel the opposite. I'm like, hey, I got I've
done good. Like now I feel like I can write
whatever I want.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah, you don't feel the pressure of like a repeat
thing like I need to redo, I need to make
this again.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Oh yeah no, let me take that back. Okay. So
the first time I had a number one was with
the Miranda and I'll never forget. I wrote with Tom
Douglas that day and I was so depressed and I
was like, Tom, I don't know what is wrong with me.
But I'm because he's like congratulations, you know, and I'm

(39:42):
like thank you, And I said, I don't know what's
wrong with me. I feel sad for some reason. He goes, yeah,
it's because you feel like you'll you can't do it again.
And that was it. And I was like, yes, that's
totally it. But and you do feel that way a
little but because it's something you strive for so long. However,

(40:06):
I've just learned that, like, I don't know a lot
of it's out of my control. I'm not a hit writer.
I'm a songwriter.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
And there are some people in town here who are
hit writers, and they look at writing music like moneyball,
Like they see they see structure, they see opportunities. It's
like business stuff. It's like, oh, that's really popped off chorus.
Let's get so and so to bring them in and
we'll do this where I'm like, what is the artists
going through? I'm more I want to get in the

(40:36):
meat of it all I want, but I want my
songs to It's funny because I don't feel like my
songs have been huge hits, but it's like, but they've
been memorable songs, and that's really more important to me.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yes, I would love to have just a world smash,
you know. I think the closest I've come to having
something that all across the board that people liked was
I wrote in twenty ten. I wrote with Labyrinth, who
at the time, I mean, he was His name was
Timothy and he was just a kid and he was

(41:11):
such a nice dude. It was me, him and Josh Kerr.
And when you started piecing together this song, it was
so it was very sad. It was actually about his
dad because his dad had his whole whole other family
he didn't know about, but we kind of made it
into a breakup song. It's called Jealous and basically this
song just took off out of nowhere. And you know,

(41:35):
Adele was like, I listened to this song whenever I
was doing my Hello video to make myself cry, you know, wow,
a lot of things, but it was not a big hit.
Like I don't know, my career has been so weird
and outside the box. Yeah, but it's allowed me to
just write whatever I want, which I love, which is great.
It's great, it's cool.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
I would think. I mean, personally speaking, I think you're
one of the best writers.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Stop it.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
No, I mean that because I can I can listen
to writers like Gillian Wilson, Dave Rawlings, and I feel
this thing. And when I feel that thing whatever, I
don't know how to describe that thing. I know, like
for me, I know, like, oh, they're legit. They have

(42:22):
a thousand songs that I'll never hear that are amazing,
and they think they're garbage. Yeah, And I feel the
same way with you. I feel that about several people.
But it's not I don't mean that to sound fluffy.
I just it's it's what I feel like, like, I

(42:42):
think the songwriter thing, like you put it perfectly, You're
a songwriter, not a hit songwriter, not And I love
that because I get so I want to be kind
when I say this, but I get I probably won't be.
But I get really tired of like the hit songwriter thing.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Well, I mean no, I got to be honest with you.
I think hit songwriters get tired of the hit songwriter thing.
But it's so funny. The grass is always greener, isn't it.
It's like people want people who have like tons of
hit songs want a Grammy. But it's like and people
who have Grammys want a ton of hit songs. It's like,
I don't know. Apparently you can't have both, but I

(43:28):
I just try to. I feel like, for me, I
just try to die to myself and what I really
want and go, Okay, what does the artist need for this?

Speaker 7 (43:37):
You know?

Speaker 3 (43:39):
But I also look, it's not that hit songs aren't great,
but it is tiresome just to sit here and be like, well,
we need to, we need to, we need to make
this a hit, we need to, you know. It's like
nobody really knows what a hit is, And to me,
I feel like the people that have well, let's take
Billie Eilish for example. It's such a crazy thing. She

(44:03):
to me created a new type of sound of that bedroom,
like like dramatic, you know where you're talking, but you
also can sing your rear end off. She and her
brother just created this whole new sound. And now people
so many girls want to follow that. It's like and
then Adele, I remember when she came out. It was

(44:25):
like everybody was looking for that that big power voice thing.
And I don't know, you have to you set the trend,
you know, don't chase it.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, you own your space.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
You own your space exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
I think that's huge. Like, and that's and I think
the general public, for lack of a better term, here's
that they do they hear the passion behind the real one,
you know, they do.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
And I think people really do crave authenticity, especially in
this day and age. Yeah, you know, and I don't
like all I don't like all popular music right now,
but I but you can't deny that the ones that
are doing really well, I mean there is a certain
level of authenticity to them, you know.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, I think so, I think that that's this this
would go into like a conversation about the AI taking
over and for songwriters and all this stuff. But I
do still think, without going too far down that road,
just for timesake, I think that people like humans are

(45:33):
always going to create, crave the real thing. They will
and they're always going to hear it. AI is really
good at writing good songs.

Speaker 7 (45:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
Oh, they're getting better and better and it's scary. And
they're getting better and better at doing videos of people
that aren't really them.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Oh man, oh man, it freaks me out into the world.
There's there was this video that came out as a
cruise ship like in the middle of antarchic article or something,
or it was like really rough season. I was looking
at it. I was like, I really can't tell if
that's AI or not.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yeah, but it wasn't. So if you could write with
anybody right now that you haven't written with, who's like
your bucket list.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
Okay or four yeah, or fifty, Well, I'll tell you
my tragical list to start off. I was supposed to
write with John Prime. Actually he and Laurie McKinnon and
I wrote.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
I don't know if I want to hear these stories,
but go ahead oh.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
It was heartbreaking, but John was like, he was so
lovely and I love Fiona, his wife, and his son,
I mean, just his whole family's wonderful. But Laurie and
I went to go write with him and we were
like piecing together a song, but I think I was
just so like, wow, we're writing with drawn prime. We
didn't finish a song that night, but we talked to
him a lot and he was just lovely. But he

(46:53):
and I had a couple other dates, and one of
them was on my birthday and I was like, this
is the best birthday present ever. But he got COVID yeah, yeah,
and then he hang ended up passing away, And honestly,
I wrote a song about him and it was called
the song I Never Got to Write with You, And
I just I hate that so much. I've always wanted

(47:15):
to write with him. But on the flip side of things,
I would love to write with Babyface. I mean, Babyface
was like the sound of my childhood, my teen years.
He's written he basically has carved out all of R
and B music back in the nineties, some of the

(47:37):
best songs, and I just I just think he's fascinating
because he himself was also an artist, and I just
I don't know. I would love to write. I have
such a deep knowledge and well of nineties R and B,
and I just I love I drank it up really
with the straw, yes or no, I gulped it down,

(48:00):
and a bunch of that I've done some. I got
to write with Lucia Keys for like three weeks. We
just kept writing and writing and writing and writing. And
I mean, and I've got to do some of it
with Mike Alisando and Lauren Daegel. That was a lot
of fun. I just wrote with Joon Batiste, like there's

(48:22):
just yeah, I've got to definitely use that tool in
my toolbox, but I just don't get to do it
a lot here in Nashville.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah, So where does that versatility come from? I mean,
you can write. I don't know that I could sit
and write an R and B song. Maybe I could,
but I don't know.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Well, if I'm being honest with you, I feel like
I feel like it's more in me than say just
true pop country. Like I'm not I don't know all
the pop country songs. And even though I grew up
here and I do love country music, I love I
love nineties country. I actually used to sing all the time,

(49:01):
and it's so funny because they were trying to pitch
songs to Tricia Yearwood at the time, Shania Twain. You know,
they were all the big singers back then in faith Hill.
But the current stuff, I don't know a lot of it, honestly,
and it keeps changing. But I feel like it's just
more in my wheelhouse. I mean, that's what I listened

(49:22):
to that in Russian music.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Yes, where do you think music is going? Where do
you think this industry is headed? You've been at it
longer now than you haven't been at it so well,
you've seen You've seen it go all yeah, over the place.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
It's been all over the place. I mean, the one
thing it is very very It is extremely frustrating the
streaming what it pays, and and we know where the money.
There's a lot of money going into other pockets. Obviously
some into label pockets, but I don't know. I don't

(50:04):
know if they'll be labels eventually. I feel like they're
The nice thing about labels is that there's so many
different artists, there's so many different people. Sometimes it helps
kind of back in the day it used to help
weed it out, but it also left out some really
amazing talented people that you would never know about.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Yeah, right, but.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
I feel like until we can get streaming services figured out,
I mean, it's going to be really hard. It's not
for me I've had I've had a great run, and
if it ended tomorrow, I did it. But for somebody
who's in their early twenties who wants to be a songwriter,
I mean, the pie is getting smaller and smaller and smaller,

(50:47):
and I don't just don't know how anybody can make
a living. So that's a little concerning to me.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yeah, what does it look like for new writers? Like,
if I want to go, it's it's so different than
it used to be. If I want to go get
a publishing deal, and so and so just told me
literally today, like it's almost impossible. It's it didn't used
to be like that. So in your view, what do

(51:19):
you think the trick? Is there a trick? Is there
a different way to approach knocking on those doors?

Speaker 3 (51:29):
I mean, honestly, the best way to approach it to
me is to I mean, you have to you have
to start it. You have to self start your engine
and then you go knock on the doors when people
start taking notice, and you'll know when they take notice.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Yeah, but if I'm not I don't mean me specifically,
but if I'm not a performer but I'm a writer.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
It's very hard.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
If you can, if you can sing a little bit
and sing your songs at a songwright around, it's very
helpful to you. One am I. I have a friend
of mine who's an amazing teacher, but he's also an
amazing artist. But he said to me, he said, one
thing about music business is like you want to equip
your equip yourself with as many tools as possible, and

(52:14):
one of those is if you can't, it doesn't you
don't have to be a great singer, but you got
to learn how to play an instrument and you got
to get out there and just like playing a songwriter
around and let people hear you. Right, That's how I
did it, and that's when people started taking notice of me.
But you know, and I wouldn't like Liz Rose. She

(52:37):
wasn't a big artist. She's not a big singer, but
she sings. She gets out there and sings her songs,
you know, all her Taylor Swift songs, the Pajillion's and
Taylor swifs on.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
That's good advice. I think that's great. I think that
it seems like to me. I mean, I've been here
forever too. But also the more you you can get
in a room with people, yeah we're doing it, which
can be hard if you're you're not doing it professionally,
and they are, but it's still possible co write as

(53:11):
much as you can.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Co write as much as you can, and you never know,
you really don't ever know. I mean a great example
of that is Tom Douglas. I mean he didn't he
didn't live here for forever, and he packed up his family,
moved here and took a chance. And I mean now
he's like Hall of Fame writer.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
You know.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
Barry Dean is another one. But I feel like, yeah,
you do got to get in the room. You gotta
you gotta seek people out. Yeah, put your pride down
a little bit. You gotta learn from people. I mean,
I thought I was such an amazing songwriter for a
while until I got in a room people who actually
were right.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
It's different. It's a different vibe from your bedroom to
the studio or whatever it is. Yeah, it's uh, you'll
get schooled fast.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
Yeah, totally. You're like, oh my gosh, I just run
Circle with Purple. That's amazing. Like the song so freaking
nobody's ever done this before. It's like nobody.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Cares, nobody cares. What's next for you? What do you
have going on? I told you the other day that
that Bluebird Symphony thing looked amazing.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Let me tell you something. The Skirmerhorn is so incredible.
Their symphony is they have been, They've always been incredible.
I was there when they opened. I went to the
opening because Amy she performed that night. Having a symphony
behind your music is like giving your song a facelift.

(54:46):
It's just like, honestly, it feels like one of those
makeover shows. It's like extreme makeover. Yeah, it's like, oh
my gosh, you came in looking like, you know, the
checkout girl at the you know, who's got a colde
the counter and your hair is terrible, and then all
of a sudden, you come out looking like a supermodel.
I mean, those people are just it just it's so beautiful.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
I told you it would be distracting for me to hear,
how like if I was singing my own song. Behind
this amazing.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
Oh there's a few times. Yeah, we're Kelly and I
and Tranny and we're trying not to get choked up.
It was so Tranny Anderson. She's written a bunch of
songs with Laney Wilson and Kelly just actually had had
number one at the time, and so we were just
almost in tears. Really amazing.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Yeah, I wish you could have seen that. So cool.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
I worked another one coming, oh you April, Well, not me,
but Hillary Lindsay will be there.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Oh yeah, Kerry Barlow, Yeah, maybe I'll go to that one.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Fred James April eighteenth.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
I think I worked a show at Scrone once and
I ruined it. I was a guitar tacking for Johnny
Swim and I forgot to change the battery packs out
of their wire. Oh no, Wellirhernmerharn.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
You know, no one's perfect.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
He said he didn't remember, but I don't believe. What's
what's next for you? That's that was the question.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
Then when I what's next for me? You know, I've
been doing a lot of these shows at Chiefs. It's
called the Truth about a Song. Chiefs is Eric Church's.
It's like it looks like a little mini rhymen. Inside
it's like three or four levels. It's like club, and
then there's like a little piano club. Then there's a
place that looks like the Raymen, and it's just a

(56:36):
really neat venue. But I've been doing this thing called
The Truth about a Song and basically it's like part
ted talk, part comedy and part song right around. But
it's basically a timeline of of of my little journey
that I've been on and and the premises, you know,

(56:57):
take You've got to use the talent that God has
given you. They were designed for you and you only,
and just because you don't have to be famous, but
the world is indeed of your talent always. It doesn't
matter whatever your gift is. You could be a great chef,
you could be a great listener, you could be a
great teacher, you know, but it's not about being famous.

(57:20):
And I always tell people, I'm like, I know plenty
of famous people who are extremely miserable. But it is
about using your gift that God has given you. And
I give an example. My grandfather. He used to play
music with me all the time and we would sing
songs together. And it's not because he didn't do that
with me because he wanted me to be some big,
grand ole opry star. It's because he was sharing his gift.

(57:43):
It brought him joy and he passed it down to me,
and I'm going to pass it down to my daughter
and that's really what that's part of what we're here
for as well.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Yeah, you know, well that's what I mean when I
was talking earlier about like I get tired of the
hit songwriter thing because I'm thinking, I was just having
this conversation the other day, I'm thinking, like I would
still be writing money or not right, Like if you know,
if we're living in a cabin and you know what,

(58:15):
where did Where was the breaking point when songs started
making money? Is probably when radio came into play and
oh yeah, for sure, and then you realize, oh, this
can be a business and you can make a living
off of it. But part of that just kind of
like I don't know, I get my head about it
and I go, well, what part of that cheapened the craft?

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Yeah, well there's a million ways the world could cheapen anything.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Yeah, it cheapens everything, it really does.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
It. Really, It'll take the most heavenly divine thing and
try to just water it down as much as it
can and turning it into a business. You know, and look,
we all have to. That's the dream is to you know,
feel like you're not working, Yeah, doing what you love.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
But that's a lie. It's doing what you love is
still work as it should be.

Speaker 7 (59:07):
It is.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Listen, sometimes writing music is absolute rocket science. It's like
I don't even know how this happened.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
You don't wake up every single day and go, I
can't wait to write two songs today with so and so.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
No, I'm sure sure don't.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
There's days you want to not go.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
I've quit so many times, like I've wanted to quit,
you know, But it's like this is what I love
and what I'm Some days I'm good at it, some
days I'm not. You know, I definitely know what I'm not.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
But I.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
I just try to keep getting I just keep getting
back up on them. I keep showing up. That's really
what you gotta do.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Yeah, totally. I want to say also before we end this,
that the High Women record is unbelievably Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
I love that record so much.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
That would be like my dream style record to make
like throwback modern throwback country. Oh yeah, Americana.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
Well, and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
You know, Dave Cobb, he told me what they were
wanting to do, and I was just like, yes, I
would love to write for this. You know. It was
the most fun record to make. It was so exciting
when we were doing this. We didn't know really what
it was. We didn't know really, I mean who all
was going to be in it, who wasn't, And we

(01:00:36):
just didn't know what it was. With that path would
look like we had a goal to get to, like
the Newport Folk Festival because we got to open for
Dolly and sing with her and I was all over that.
But it was such I wish people. Have you ever
seen that movie Field of Dreams, one of the best

(01:00:58):
movies ever, But there's just there's just one part where
they seek out this doctor and his dream was to
play just this one He almost got to go play
with the majors, just this one game and he gets
to go back and do that, and I feel like
I feel like I got to play my one big

(01:01:19):
game in the majors. It was so much fun at
the time, and and COVID kind of COVID destroyed so
many things. I mean, it was so sad. I mean,
people lost their lives and their jobs and livelihoods.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
It just all quit.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
But I will never forget being in the studio and
singing those songs with them. Yeah, that was probably the
most fun part. Honestly, they're so good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
There's such great songs.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Well, thank you so much for saying that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Yeah, if you all haven't heard it, go please go
listen to that record. And do we get another Natalie
Hemby record?

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Natalie Himmy, Yes, I am, like I just talked to
her yesterday. No, I'm doing a I'm doing a beach record.
I not a Kenny Chesney beach record or Bob Marley
or anything like that. It's like it's kind of like
a sound that it's a feeling that I feel when

(01:02:20):
I go to the beach. And so we bought a
beach place and we go down there all the time,
and like so much of it is nostalgia and sentimental.
One of my favorite songs in there, it's called Seahorses
for Sea Cowboys, and it's basically just talking about how
God creates just the most intricate things in the universe.
And it's like, I wonder that the ocean is so deep.

(01:02:44):
I wonder if there's sea horses for sea cowboys. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
So anyways, I'm excited for it to come out.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
That sounds great. I can't wait. Thank you for being here, Thank.

Speaker 4 (01:02:55):
You for having me.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
Thank you so much. We could talk for hours really.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Work Tapes is produced by Me Brandon Carswell, special thanks
to Natalie Hemby. To learn more about Natalie, go to
Nataliehimby dot com. This episode of Work Tapes is recorded
at Soundstage Studios in Nashville, Tennessee, thanks to Nick Autry
and Soundstage Studios. Additional thanks to Jonas Litton from the

(01:03:26):
Stories in Sounds podcasts for additional production assistance. Don't forget
to like and subscribe to Work Tapes wherever you're listen