September 16, 2025 • 55 mins
Stephen Day is an accomplished singer/songwriter who has performed with the likes of Teddy Swims, Ben Rector & Stephen Sanchez. His catalogue has produced over 140 million streams, sync placements including Universal Pictures and is currently touring his latest record, “Gold Mine” produced by Micah Tawlks. In this episode of Worktapes we talk about a song he wrote called “Moonshine” and listen to the original worktape as we discuss it.
Find Stephen Day
Listen to Moonshine
Worktapes is Produced by Brandon Carswell Film & Editing by Shaun Carswell This episode was filmed in Nashville, TN Episode intro music written by Brandon Carswell & produced by Micah Tawlks - "Back To Us" Worktapes show cover art designed by Harrison Hudson **All songs used by permission**
Find Stephen Day
Listen to Moonshine
Worktapes is Produced by Brandon Carswell Film & Editing by Shaun Carswell This episode was filmed in Nashville, TN Episode intro music written by Brandon Carswell & produced by Micah Tawlks - "Back To Us" Worktapes show cover art designed by Harrison Hudson **All songs used by permission**
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Work Tapes. This is a podcast where we
tear up our songs. Why was the song written, what's
it about, What's the context and emotion behind it? Where
were you at the time, what were you going through?
How did certain lines come to you? What's the inspiration?
How long did it take to write? I'm Brandon Carswell
and I'm fascinated with songwriting. How songs are built from
(00:27):
the ground up. It's easy to hear a full production
song on the radio and dismiss its origin story. I
want to hear the broth draft of the song or
the work tape. I want to explore the very beginning
of how songs that move us and make us move
our born. Hello, everyone, welcome to another episode of Work Tapes.
(00:49):
I'm Brandon Carswell. As usual today I am rejoined. We
have a repeat offender on the show today from about
three years ago, I think on episode twenty. This guy
has been actively doing music for what ten years? Something
(01:09):
like that?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yes, started first EP came out in twenty sixteen, those
close to ten years.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, he has been an opening actor. Teddy Swims, Ben Rector,
Steven Sanchez has over one hundred and forty million streams
in his catalog, sync placements for Universal, all kinds of
stuff going on a new album called gold Mine. Welcome
(01:38):
Stephen Day, Thank you, brother friend and fan right here. Same.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
The feeling is mutual.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
We were connected years ago by Micah talks. When Mike
has started working with you, he would just not stop
talking about how good you were, oh man, and then
connected us when I started the podcast and doing all
this stuff. So thanks for coming back. Of course, I'm
glad it worked out me too.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I guess that would have been the first record with Micah,
like the first time we ever worked together.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I oh Shapes was the first one, I think, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And an what an album. I was just telling my
I told you last time that my kids are big
fans of yours. Yeah yeah, they loved that record, and
I was telling them this morning on the way to school.
Steven's coming over to do another podcast, and I just
started talking about those songs. I was like, man, they're
so that record's so timeless to me.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Oh man, Thank you, bro.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
We talked about the song if Standing was Flying? Is
that what's called?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, weird title, such a great song. So if our
listeners want to know about that song, you should go
back and listen to episode twenty of work Tapes. Man,
what a great song. We also mentioned a song that
is my favorite song of yours called I always call
(02:59):
it the Angel song m gold that record, Yeah, micha
old Angel, my Golden Angel. Yes, what a great song.
Thank you man, so gorgeous. But for those of you
that haven't listen to that episode or no Stevens story
or anything at all, maybe we can go through a
little bit of like where you're from, how you started
(03:22):
in music? Yeah, kind of touch on some of those.
In episode twenty, he goes a little deeper throughout, you know,
when he started in music and writing and all that stuff.
So who are you? What are you doing here? Why
are you here today?
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Well? I came to eat some cookies.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yes, I don't know if you can see those cookies
on the camera, but those are some legit.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
They look so good, good, like a thin airy crisp.
I can already I can almost taste it just looking
at it. I would advise just not eating those cookies
because they're they're that good.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
And I want to keep them.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, I understand, but you're welcome to have some cook
There's definitely I'm definitely getting in there.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
You're here for the cookies, but you're here for the music.
You're from Georgia, right.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yes, you for Georgia.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
It's about forty five minutes northeast of Atlanta. Spent my
whole life there growing up until I moved to Nashville
ten years ago. But like started playing guitar in middle school.
Found my mom's guitar in her closet and I was like,
(04:29):
can you teach me.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
A few chords?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
That bass guitar over there is my mom's. Really she
played it in her gospel group growing up. Really, what
kind of guitar was your mom's?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It's like an old nylon guitar, beautiful guitar. She actually
sent me a picture a few days ago of like
her performing with a friend and it was like, oh
my god, there's the guitar and it's funny, like we
with that guitar specifically, there's so much like to mental value.
(05:01):
She was like wanting to play it, so I like
brought it back down like last year for her to
to play, and I like miss that guitar so much.
But it's a beautiful I mean at the time, I
don't think it was anything special. It's just like a
It was probably a cheap I think she I think
she said, I think she says she like sold her goat.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Wait, she sold the goat to buy that.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I can't remember if it's like a sheep or a goat.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
What are goats going for me?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I don't I don't know, but I think I think
she got the guitar for like forty five bucks.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
It was a cheap goat.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Cheap gut. It wasn't that good of a goat.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
But I I she taught me like D A and G.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Mine was DCG. Yeah, those were my first ones.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I think she still to this day like loved the
key of D mostly because that's like most of the
chords that she knows. But like, once you know one key,
I mean you can play any song. So she taught
me DA and G and I just like YouTube and
(06:17):
ended up getting a guitar instructor at some point in
like later middle school. But like at first, I mean
it was YouTube like sweet Home Alabama, like that kind
of stuff, fell in love with it and almost immediately
started writing songs with guitar just because it was like
I've I've actually never loved covering songs It was always
(06:42):
just kind of like I just naturally wanted to write
my own songs.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Why so, let me back up, how old were you? Yeah,
this would have been then? Why this would have been
seventh grade? Seventh grade, sixth or seventh grade?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
I don't know that the full reason why. But I
liked learning guitar parts to an extent. But I think
I was just so in awe of like artistry, Like
I didn't want to be doing what somebody else did.
I wanted to make my own thing.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
But did you have like a reference, like were you
looking at a certain artist back then in seventh grade
and going or or or an artist that was really influential?
You're like, oh, I want to be John okay, John Mayer.
You want to be John Mayer? Yeah okay, but you
want to be the rock star thing, or you want
(07:43):
to you want the songs, the songs, Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I mean so at the time in middle school, I wasn't.
I mean, I wasn't like I want John Mayer's life.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
It was just like the thing in pop culture that
I that was thrown my way that I latched onto. Sure,
and like later I was also raised on like crooners
and like Sinatra. My mom loves Sinatra, Boubla, and like
it was just this thing of like with that combined
(08:17):
with guitar, I was.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Just kind of like, this is what I want to do.
This is it became.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I didn't know it at the time, but that's like
I think it was the songs and the like ability
to communicate feeling through melody that I was just kind
of like, this is I mean, I couldn't think of
anything else that I wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Right, Were you more intrigued with the guitar playing versus
the songwriting.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
With John or just in general, just in general, just
for you? It was I think because of John it
was intertwined.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, because he's a it was like continuum. Yeah, it's
an unstoppable album.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
It's insane.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Like the writing and the playing and the production all
of it is just top tier. And so he's one
of those guitarists like known for playing like he's a
very specific sound. Yeah, but also he's a brilliant songwriter
and some guitarists aren't writular songwriting.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I think the more I've thought about it as I've
gotten older, is I fell in love with maybe maybe
this is it. I was blown away by the simultaneous
playing and singing over the top of it, like the
two sort of balancing, the balancing act.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
But also I think.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I don't know, you know, I don't know John Mayer,
but like I think he was like a freak about guitar.
I love guitar, but I also love singing and song
like singing was like also a thing at the time.
It was like picking up the guitar sort of opened
up my voice too.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Okay, so let's talk about your voice. So your voice
you mentioned like being influenced by Sinatra and Michael Buble
and things like that, which I definitely hear.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Like actually the description you're you're putting together between John
Mayer and crooner's for like a better word. I always
laugh when I hear that word because I think of
that TV show. I think you should leave it. That
is one of my all times every time I hear
the word crooner.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Now, I just think of that is that's the one
with the cigar and driving decals, the driving Crooner.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
It's it's insane simply to if we start quoting that
week whole episode of be Over. But that's a perfect
description of what I think your style is. Like your
voice and you're playing. I wouldn't say all of the
production would be like a good like a mesh of
(11:15):
those two things. But I hear that in you like
I hear it in your voice. I hear it with
like even the song we're going to talk about today,
which we'll listen through and we'll listen to the work
tape and talk about that with the because it's a
little more like electric driven, like clean electric driven than
(11:36):
some of the past things you've done, I think, And
so I'm interested. Do you have an insanely a good voice,
So I'm interested in where that came from. So if
if you're if you're influenced by people like Sinatra, Boubley,
(11:56):
like all of those guys are are just like can
sing circles around on anybody. Yeah, And I said that
about you in the last episode, and I believe it
to be true. Where did that come from? Where you
mentioned in the last time we got together that you
were in like choirs? Is that right?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Is that where that started developing?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I think choir was a like in high school I
was in I was in choir and it was a
fun way to like sort of grow into being confident
as a singer. But I honestly feel like guitar and
with my voice, like it's always been listening to records
(12:47):
and like trying to imitate Okay and Sinatra Boublay, that's
like a part of it. But like it was like
Stevie Wonder. I think Stevie Wonder was the Stevie Wonder
and Donnie Hathaway were the two singers when I was
growing up that it was unfathomable. There was something about
(13:13):
their voice, their voices that was like an inexhaustible rubber band.
Alan Stone's the same way. He was another huge influence
on me that was a more modern influence. When he
was like in high school, I was like, oh my god,
that's that's the guy. But the same with him, I
(13:34):
think Stevie Wonder and these kinds of guys that came
before were huge influences on his singing and on mine too,
because you know, you listen to any of Stevie Wonder's
song and he might start out down here and then
he goes up and it's just like keeps getting higher, right,
But it doesn't sound like.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
He's singing in like falsetto.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
It sounds like he's going and it's like this really
chesty but still like in a normal person's falsetto range.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's I I still don't understand it.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
It sounds like you understand some of it because you
can do some of it, like I you can get
you can hit those low registers, and like I think
the last I'm not going to reference the last episode
this whole time, but I think the last one I
made mention of your voice, like you have a good
sounding radio podcast voice because I had you intro the
(14:29):
thing we'll use maybe we'll use it on this one. Yeah.
And but when you're singing, I've seen you do this
live where you just pull out this high these high
notes and it's like where did that come from? And
you nail them and thank you and it's great. So
was that like an early on thing? Were you fascinated
(14:51):
with vocals when you were just learning?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Fascinated with vocals? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Man, I mean, I mean I think Stevie Wonder like Mayer,
amazing singer in his own way, but he he to me,
and we can edit this out or not whatever, but
he to me is not like I don't I don't
always think, you know, like Bob Dylan is a great
example of like cool voice technically, Yeah, people aren't like that.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I love listening to that.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Like Johnny Cash was not a good vocalist, but he
could sell, he could read exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
There's there's it's a great voice is a great voice,
whether somebody is like technically a good singer or not.
And I think that's where the whole like krooner thing
comes in. Is like a lot of these crooners like
Glenn Campbell or as another hero of mine, or Sinatra,
it's like you hear their voice and it's almost like
they could sing you a lullaby and you would fall
(15:46):
asleep right there.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
On the spot, right.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
But I think with with with vocals, it was just
I tried so hard to imitate these people.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
In my car in the shower, just me and guitar,
you know.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I just I think in the car is probably where
the most practice came from, which I mean is a
privilege in its own right. But like I just remember
getting I still do it. To get in the car
and listen to music is one of the biggest joys ever.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, it's it's how I cut my teeth practicing vocals
and getting high notes, and like I would, I would sing,
I would try to sing to perfection. Muse radio Head, yeah,
cold Play, Yeah, if I couldn't hit the note, That's
(16:48):
the only song I was listening to for a week
until I could. Yes, bro like on repeat. Yes, So
you're right, like the car is like a sanctuary of
that learning.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
That's another thing that you just brought up, is like
I realized through the years too. And I know, I
know people put songs on repeat, but I've realized over
the years, like with friends or anybody, I leave one
song on repeat forever, like it's annoying because I get
obsessed with it too, And it's just one of these
(17:20):
things that it's it's like.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Do you have one now that you're obsessed with?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Hmm, that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Think about it.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
We'll come back yeah, yeah, Yeah, let's come back to it,
because I mean, I there's all there's honestly songs that
I could if I really thought about it, I can
like remember having you know, extended periods of time with it,
like like the song as by Stevie Wonder on songs
in the ke Keevolay, he does this growl in like
the third verse, and it's like, oh, I can't remember
(17:50):
how he does it, but it's this growl and I
I remember trying to do it for hours and I
still I still can't do it. But he's just an
example of somebody that, like Deanne's is another vocal example
of like, if I want to work on my falsetto,
I'll just put on a D'Angelo record and my throat
will be toast in about ten minutes.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, I think like there's correct obviously, there's correct ways
to do those things. Yeah, but like you're saying, I
just did it in the car as well.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, it's the most fun. I mean, you should be
having fun if you want to.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Well let's talk about your writing style then, because it's
do you write everything from really fun songs like the
one we're going to talk about today is fun? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
and then you'll write really heavy songs or really deep
songs or something that's like sad but it's got.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
A groove, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, when you started writing what early on? Yeah? What
was like? What were you from? What were you just
trying to make a song to make it?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Or or at what point did you go, oh, this
can mean something, I have something to say.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, that's a great that's a great question. I think
there is.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I mean some of this is so on like a
subconscious level. Like I think when I was a kid
and I first started writing songs, there was something in
me that just wanted to convey emotion, Like maybe maybe
I was needing to, like you know, therapeutically make something
(19:36):
to or feel something.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
But I feel like.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
My like as like a as a storyteller and as
a lover of music, I've almost always been over and
over again. I'm like the songs that sometimes like wreck
Me or like take Me off my Feet are like
these like hopeless romantic love songs. It's it's kind of
(20:02):
always been like that. I think that's why I say
the word crooner. And I've been described as a crooner
by some people, which I don't mind. Like I feel
like some people there's like a bad connotation with that.
Start smoking cigar, it's like Fedora whole thing, cocky walk
when they come out, all of them. Yes, but yeah,
(20:24):
there's like this part of me that's like I don't
a lot of times songwriting for me, you know, there's
all kinds of songwriting. And I think sometimes the most
effective as a listener for me are sometimes songs that
have nothing to do with specific moments, if that makes sense.
(20:47):
Like sometimes a love song or like a heartbreak song
is just comforting.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Because it is what it is and it's a story.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, it's just like everybody. I think that's another thing
is everybody understands romance and the heaviness and the beauty
of it. It's like a very humanizing.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, it's super relatable. And you can write a love
song has nothing to do with anyone specifically. Yeah, Like
it could be the whole love song could be a
metaphor for your exactly, whatever you're going through exactly, and
you don't that way, you don't have to tell anybody
what you're going through exactly, and unless you just want
to write a super honest ro piece, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, And I think that's I think that's what it was.
Is Like naturally, I'm sort of a private person, but
there's something about melody and lyric that you can you
can be so vulnerable without you know, showing people.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
What is it about the private person that makes them
want to go out on stage?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
You know, like the enter it becomes the lead singer
guy I know I or the solo artist, and all
of a sudden, you can you can do that on stage,
but in real life you're like.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
No, yeah, I mean I feel that.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
I'm like, it's like it gives you permission, Like being
able to do a show gives you permission to do that. Yeah,
But if you brought would you be I know the
answer for myself. But if if you know, it's like
a living room of people and they're saying, like, here
play this, Yeah, are you more comfortable?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
You know, that's an interesting question.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Playing the Stephen Day Show or plays a couple of songs,
you know, for five people and who know you really.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Well, I'm actually not as good at that. Yeah, when
it's I get more nervous for shows that people I
know are going to be Yep, I'm like one because this,
you know, what I do is very personal to me.
But at the same time, I'm like, it's basically putting
(23:13):
a career on display, you know, whereas like it's like
bringing your friend to work day, and it's like if
it's a family member or a friend, and it's like
a show that sells like fifteen people, you know, fifteen
people show up and it's like your mom's there, you know,
after the show's she's like you did such a great job.
You know, it's like mom, or like anybody your friend
(23:35):
is like, dude, great show, and it's like thank you.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
But I mean it's kind of blue.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, so you're supposed to say that, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly,
you're my mom exactly. Yeah, that's that's a look. Fortunately,
it seems like you're doing great. Thank you. You've been
selling out. I was fortunate enough to go to see
you at was that the Brooklyn Bawl. Yes, Yes, that
(24:02):
was a great show.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Headline was yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, that was fantastic, Thank you man. It was fun.
It was big. I've seen you at like the Basement,
I think the Brooklyn Bowl Like it felt like, oh
you just teared up a notch. Oh cool, you know,
like the band was just like the band was great
every time I've seen you. But and this new record
(24:27):
is so much fun.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I do want to cover uh co writing yea. Do
you enjoy co writing or do you would you rather
just write by yourself?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Co writing has been a something that I've sort of
stumbled into living in Nashville, and.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I just feel like a lot of people say that, like,
which is interesting to me. Yeah, not to cut you off,
I want you to continue, But I feel like a
lot of people are like, moved to town and don't
know that co writing is a thing? Is that how
you I knew.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
It was a thing.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Okay, I didn't want any part of it. Good, I'm
glad I interrupted there was there was early on I
didn't want any part of it. And then I realized
that I there was some part of me that was like,
I think I should push against that part of me
(25:31):
to at least try it.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Why didn't you want to do it?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Writing felt too personal or felt too I felt maybe
I maybe I felt cocky, or maybe I felt like
I wanted it to be exactly the way I wanted
it to. And over time I was kind of like,
I think I just realized the truth of co writing
is like you can go write a song with somebody
(25:58):
and you never have to use that song or listen
to it ever.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Again. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah? It does.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Like with the like other hand, being like you might
write the best song you've ever written with this random
guy or girl in this town and it might be
your favorite song on the record.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
How do you push through like the awkward moments of
a co write, there's always there's almost always depending on
who you're with, right, if you know them really well,
it might be a different situation, like, yeah, you and
Mike are writing at this point, it's probably second nature, right,
But if you and I sat down to write a
song we know each other, we don't know each other,
(26:42):
and there would be this like, hey, I want to
write about this, well, I want to write about this,
or yeah, let's what do you think about this line?
And when you don't know somebody really well, you get
really like you're vulnerable. Yeah, you're throwing creative ideas where
somebody can say no, that's stupid, right, although they probably wouldn't,
but you'd feel that way, right.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, I think there. I think there's just a bunk.
There's a there's like a muscle that I've built or
am building with with with co writing. Because when I
started co writing, I was, you know, had thought about
it for myself and also talked with my manager about it.
I was kind of like, I never want to lose
(27:25):
writing by myself. Sure, And that was another lie that
I had told myself was if I start co writing,
when am I gonna write by myself? That's the end
of that. Yeah, and that's just not the truth. Like
we've built out my schedule in a way. That's like
some co writing, some writing by.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Myself because because some part of it is.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
You, you never know which one is going to yield
the thing, right, the like magic because both can and
I think with co writing, Yeah, there are some awkward
moments for sure. I mean you sometimes you you have
no control over that. Like some days you're with people
(28:11):
you've never met before and it's just a bad fit
and you never do it again. Right.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Do you trust yourself more by yourself?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That's a great question, man, we're digging deep, you are,
That's a great question.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I you know the.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
No, you don't, okay, So you feel I guess that
would lead into like, do I have more confidence co
writing with someone throw my ideas out than I do
writing solo and then presenting this song to my team
or my producer or whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, I mean it probably depends on the day, Like
I mean sometimes it just honestly, it depends where the
magic is. Like some days I write it by myself,
and I'm like, this is something like the demo we're
looking at today is a song I started by myself.
(29:14):
I was alone, and there was something about it that one.
There's a lot of interesting stuff we'll get into, but one,
this song didn't make I wrote it before the record,
and it didn't make the record, And I wrote it
before gold Mine, before gold Mine, and I wrote it
(29:34):
by myself. Later on, took it in as we're doing
putting out a deluxe bonus for the record, and we
tweaked me and Mica tweaked some parts of it, but
like the bones of it I wrote by myself, and
I just remember this feeling of like something musically about
this song is so distinctly me, something melodically every part
(29:58):
of it. And I had like a tough time sort
of like trying to persuade my manager to get it
on the record, but I never stopped thinking about it,
Like it sat in a folder that was called definitely
Deaf record. Definitely on the record, Yeah, And it was
the only song that didn't make the record that that
(30:18):
was in there, that was in there.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Wow, Yeah, that's frustrating, but.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
It was something that I wanted, Like this record was
an experiment I sort of wanted. I sort of invited
my manager into like the A and R ing process,
like the Okay, I'm gonna be a little more open
handed about this, I want to know. I think I
was like willing to put myself up and be like
(30:45):
do you like this?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Do you not like this?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Micah was involved in that process too. It was the
first time that I was like, I don't want to
be the end.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
All be allay, even though I still was.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yeah, but if you have a song that you really
love and everyone else is going, no, that's not the one.
Oh it sucked, and you're like, yeah, I think it
is the one I know, but not to be loose
handed with it because I'm trying this thing out.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, but that's That's a good example of what we
were talking about is like confidence. It's like a little
harder to be confident when you write something by yourself
because you're like, this was all made in this vacuum,
whereas like if you're co writing with people and like
you know, when something's hot, sure, like everybody's kind of like, dude,
(31:31):
this isn't Do.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
You have an example of a co write that.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Went like that, Yeah, there's another song on the Deluxe
called Old News.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
I can play for it. I don't know if you've
heard it.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I think i've heard it.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Okay, there's another one called old News and I wrote it.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
It was a co write with.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Micah Austin Goodlow, Josie Dunn, amazing writers.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, and we.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Wrote it really fast, and I just all of us.
I mean, I remember walking down to eat lunch when
we had like I think we had finished the song, yeah,
and I was like this, Josie. I think Josie can
recall this, but I think I was like, this is
sort of like off hand out. I was like, this
is the best song, this is the best song ever.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, but it's just like it. I think there's I mean, obviously,
some great songs take.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Sort of like tireless amounts of work or like you
just work on them forever and like.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Tweak little parts.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
But like there's other there's other songs where it's just
like it happens and it's done and everybody's just like
agrees on it.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, like something dropped out of the sky.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
What's frustrating to your point about the song Moonshine that
we're going to talk about it being in your folder
for gold Mine the record, and then you trusting yourself
enough to go, this is a great song. Eventually I'm
gonna put it out as you you knowing, like you
(33:15):
just know, yeah, as an artist. You see what I'm
getting at is you see something that no one else
is seeing, even the people who are behind you and
backing you up and working with you and saying this
is not quite the one. It's a great song, but
it's not quite the one that we're looking for the record.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Like I don't think, I mean, I don't know what
Micah thought. Yeah, but like I don't think. I don't
think my manager would mind me saying this, but like
I don't think she thought it was good.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Yeah, just straight up right. And I have built the
muscle to be like.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
All right, I understand, yeah, but it doesn't. It never
left me. It never went away from me. I was like,
this is just there's some reason this thing's like biting
me on the.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
As I was listening to like a Rick Rubin quots
or clip or something where he said, like the interviewer
asks him about some about what people think about music
or something, he goes, I don't care what they think
I'm not writing it for them, yeah, which seems like
such a backhanded, almost like a jerk thing to say.
(34:18):
But as the writer, as the artist, if you're not
making it for you, yeah, it's not going to translate.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
If you don't like it it.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Basically, he got to the thing. It's like, you can
make it for people, but that's just commerce. You're just
selling a product for what somebody needs or wants. But
if you're making art, you're making it for you and
it's whatever's coming out and whatever. You know, when you
write a crap song, god, yeah, yeah, and you know
(34:48):
when it could be better and all of those things.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
When you write a crap song, you one example that
going back to Moonshine, if you write a crap song,
you know, the day of or you know, a few
days after, you might think it's good, and you might
show it to somebody and you might be like, what
do you think of this? But at some point, if
(35:15):
it's an actual crap song, you're going to be like, yeah,
this is crap.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I feel like I wish I didn't send it to
five people. I've done that so many times.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
But but if you if a song doesn't if a
song haunts you.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
There's something about that, but you also will see something
in it where maybe maybe the work tape or the
demo or the voice memo doesn't quite capture what you
were envisioning.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Right, which is why I sent you the early one. Yeah,
it's a it's a bad loop. Yeah, I love that loop.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Let's talk about Moonlight or Moonshine. I knew I was
going to do that. I knew it. I've envisioned in
my mind. I'm going to say.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Moment rewind Sorry, Moonshine.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
The song we're going to talk about is called Moonshine.
Let's double down on the title since I mess it up. Yes,
this song is fun. It feels like I'm listening to
it right now. We're recording this in January, but it
feels like a summer song. Yeah, it has those vibes.
(36:26):
It's just like very like makes me think of like,
you know, literally hanging out with your friends on a
summer night. Yeah, that's what the song.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, I think when I was writing it, that was
the magic part of it that I couldn't get away from.
There was like this like nostalgic Yeah, like summer night,
skinny dip feeling to it that.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I was like.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
The energy was in there and I just had to
figure out a way to get it to the finish line.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, let's go through some of the work tape. Yeah,
for this one, we're gonna do it a notch different.
We're going to talk about it as we go. Most episodes,
by the way, for those of you that are just
joining work tapes, most episodes, we don't do it this way.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Start with that. Well, you can start with whatever first. Yeah,
first demo, it's got the.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Let's make sure this is gonna work.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
All right, So you got that loop going on that
you you said wasn't good.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
It's good.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, loop is not really even in time, Like I remember,
I cut it up and I was like, I don't
know why I like that, but it's like, yeah, sloppy
drums that Yeah, Okay, that's good.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
That's all. You want to hear the song?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Well, we can play the whole What do you think
we should do.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
We'll go to the next song.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Let's talk about this.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
You first say, okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
So this, after being away from it for a long time,
I still think it had all the bones, but I
can remember when we went to choose the songs for Goldmine. Yeah,
we were trying to do like a very cohesive thing,
(38:36):
very family. Every song is like a brother sister cousin unit.
And I remember I wrote this song the day of
when we were deciding on what songs put on the record,
and so I went in with Maddie and Micah and
we like did a bunch of sticky notes. Everybody kind
of put the songs they wanted and you know, the
(38:58):
yes box or the no box, and I played this
one at the very end. I was like, Hey, just
you know one more song that I want to throw
in the bag, and the room was just kind of like,
I don't know, like we've got all these songs we
already had been listening to, and so it just kind
of like missed the boat.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
It's like when Ringo brought in his songs to the Beatles.
Is that what the vibe was like, Oh, thanks, No,
I've seeing those memes that I think they're hilarious. Yeah, yeah, sorry, good, No,
you're good.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
But it was just like, I think it felt different
enough from the record that I understand why I didn't
get thrown on. But I think there was some part
of me that like I was trying to fuse. Well,
I'll just say this, I think the second demo that
(39:54):
I sent you is one I just like totally hyped up, okay,
sort of popified. Yeah, just I just wanted to like
throw a bunch of juice on it to send it
to my manager, because basically we were trying to pick
songs for the Deluxe and I was like, hey, you know,
I know this isn't your favorite song, but like give
(40:15):
this demo a shot. And it's like kind of totally different.
I mean, it's like, okay, so let's just like jacked
up on mountain. Let's listen to like ten seconds of
the first one we just listened to, and then we'll
go straight into the second.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Version that you juiced.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
First demo.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
First demo's right here, bare.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Bones, drums, guitar and a vocal. That's it.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Okay, so you kind of got that vibe down, and
now we'll go into the second one.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
It's got this like stomp clap thing. It feels like
a hoe down throwdown.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Oh yeah, there's the juice right there.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
But there even there definitely, yeah, there was even something
about this one, because I mean I like this.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
I I made it. I like the way I produced it,
but there was still something that it like.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
It was almost two up or something. I I even
kept the baseline on the chorus like moving almost like disco,
which I think is cool, but there was something about
well one overall. One of the reasons why I couldn't
(41:40):
get rid of this song was there's something musically about
it in the chorus, specifically like in the In the
very first demo, I didn't know what to play on
the chorus because I didn't know what was going to
happen with the chorus, so I just stayed on the
one while I go shine rightdo so like it just
(42:08):
stays there, And I thought that was so sick. But
if you listen down to it just feels like nothing's
happening on the chorus. So I was trying to figure
out what to do with that chorus in the second demo,
and I figured something out, but it still didn't feel
like it was conveying the right emotion, which is what
(42:31):
I think we finally got to with the final was
this this feeling of like, yeah, this is a fun song.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
But there's also like some like nostalgia, like.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
What about this part. You cut this part out?
Speaker 3 (42:46):
I got it. Yeah, the juice enough. We cut this.
I remember, I remember when we cut the shot.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Were you disappointed?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I think we both me and Michael were. I think
we were because we had gotten to this point where
the Sha La Las were there?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Can we start a band called the Las?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Easy? Yes, ready, easy, yes easy?
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
We only sing songs that are like phonetic, there's no
actual lyrics.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Dude, and we are yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, but yeah, so we we cut the Shalla Laws,
which I mean, I mean, I guess I am bummed about.
But there was this moment where we had the whole
song mapped out. It was feeling really cool and the
outro was sort of this party, which is sick.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
It's great, but it's.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Sort of dragged on to me. I was we we
just tried cutting it and now it ends with this yeah,
and I think that is so cool.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
It's still a party.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Yeah, it's still a party.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
I mean, the video for this song is I'm sure
you already have it figured out, but I bet it's
going to be fun. Yeah, it's going to be a party.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
It's gotta be. It's gotta be.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I feel like I can see it.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
It's gotta be.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
But yeah, we basically what happened was we tried cutting
the Sha La Las and it was the last thing
we did the night before I was coming back to
work again the next day with Micah, and we cut it.
The next morning. We came in and we listened down
with the shortened abbreviated version, and we both were like,
(44:40):
that doesn't feel that doesn't feel wrong right, So it
was like, who knows if we made the right decision,
but it's what felt right.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Well, listen, if anyone wants to hear the Sha La lads,
just rewind.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
This episode loop that.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
You've got it here exclusively. You could always do like
a I'd be at the Sha Lah lots there. If
you want you own this music, this is yours you
can do.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Did this song take a long time to write?
Speaker 3 (45:13):
One day, one morning.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
One morning, it's a few hours.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, like before I went into it was before before
I went in to pick the songs for the record.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
A question go ahead.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
That was another thing about this song. That kind of
what we were talking about with Mayor and my obsession
with like simultaneous guitar vocal thing is like I was
hypnotized by.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
The verse guitar part.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Okay, dun't doom, doom, doom, doom.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Don't don't doom.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
It was so fun to play and it was so
dreamy to sing something looked at like something sustained and
sort of like it's really simple, Like the first verse is,
don't it feel good on a Friday night with some
good friends? And it's like this this thing where it's
(46:13):
like it feels like a jam and then you're.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Just doing it feel good. It feels like sensitive or something.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Vibe.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a vibe. Yeah, it's nice.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
It sets a tone, it sets the image don't feel
good on a Friday night, drink a couple of beers
with your friends. Yeah, like that's you're like the backyard
chilling by the fire. Whatever.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
It's a vibe.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
It's definitely a vibe. When you write a song like that,
if it takes a while, like you have a few
songs that are really fun and if I'm curious, if
it takes a long time to write, does it take
any of the fun out of it for you? Do
you like writing songs quickly? I think everybody likes so
(47:00):
maybe that's a dumb question.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
It does take the fun out of.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
It to when it's like a.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
When you get stuck. I mean, honestly, that was a
part of this song too, is like what I finished
is not the is not the final song. Micah and
I went and.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Reapproached the back half of the verse because the verse
was all sustained like that, don't it feel good on
a Friday night with some good friends where the music's.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Tied, and then it said originally it said it again,
don't it feel good?
Speaker 3 (47:35):
Don't it feel right?
Speaker 2 (47:38):
But every time we would get to that, basically, Micah
was like, I'm hearing something that picks up on that
back half.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
And that's when we wrote the.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Couppies in a backyard band baby.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
And it's like, honestly, to me, saved the song like
there was I knew there was something in the song.
The song was a fight production wise, not between me
and Micah, but me and Micah against the song.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Sure to get it right, like we did. We spent.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Like kind of most of a day hashing out what
was supposed to happen in the chorus. Like you know,
when I first wrote it, I left that chorus open
because I was like this feels so dreamy if I'm
just hanging on the one chord, but I don't know,
something has to happen.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
It just won't move.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Like a song if you just stay there, right, And
so we got in and so I did the little
disc go boom boom, boom boom on that second demo demo.
But when we got in, when we got into work
on like the final version, it turned into this like
(48:55):
open change, chang yes, following the melody, and as soon
as we got there it felt right. So we followed that,
but then we couldn't find We couldn't figure out where
the chords should land. It was like we kept puzzle piecing, like.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
And they're kind of right in the pocket right.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Exactly, but like we tried like this is weird, we
can edit this out. But like Qardally, I think we
were like trying to decide where the four chord or
the two chords should land, and we just kept puzzle piecing.
Like all of it felt good, but it wasn't until
(49:36):
we landed on the whatever we landed on, I can't
even remember, yeah, that we were like that's it, don't
touch it, like we finally found it, and the chorus
kind of stays open. It feels huge, and I just
remember being like, thank God, like it was such a
(49:58):
fun struggle. It was truly. I remember when I brought
it to Micah. I was like, I was like, dude,
I have to do this song. And I was just
gonna say on the front end, there's something about this
song that like we're gonna have to like fight with
and like, yeah, figure out, and he's like, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Let's do you ever have a song that you fight
with releasing.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Like I don't want to put out, but then I
put it out or vice versa, maybe both.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
But like like you've done like you let's pretend like
you brought this song in and you're like I want
to do this song now, yeah, and then you're sitting
on it and you're like it's done. You figured it out,
struggle with it. What if I don't want to release
it now? You know? Has that ever happened? I'm sure
(50:55):
there's songs that you haven't released, but I just mean, like.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
There's definitely songs I haven't released.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
Surprisingly to that question, I've always just financially like I
haven't like if you're gonna get somebody else to produce
your record unless it's a buddy, which is totally great
that is going to like cut you a steal deal.
(51:20):
But like my experience has been like, all right, I've
got to pick the songs before I go in to cut,
because like this is costing me an arm in la
you know.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
So, and not releasing it would be stupid.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, I think, honestly, gratefully, I've always felt like there's
something about making music to me that I'm like, if
I can get it out and released, I forget about it.
I'm like, I just got to get it out and
move on.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
I Yeah, I think I'm very much of the mindset
like if I don't put it out, I'm not gonna
move on.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Do you care? Do you have any like and by
all means to be as honest as possible, do you
care what people think after you've released it? Obviously we
all want people to like our part. No, But at
the end of the day, it's it's kind of like
once you put it out, isn't it It's like it's
up to them.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah, I know, I really on one hand, I really care. Yeah,
and then.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
So like the the human part of me really cares.
Speaker 3 (52:32):
The artist part of me.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
I feel grateful for as well. There's like there is
some part of my brain and heart that's like I
love this. Yeah, I don't care if you love it.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Yeah, I love it good, But like, but I need
to make a living too, so you need to like it.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, there is that there
is you know.
Speaker 3 (52:56):
You can't you can't.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
I would be lying if I said there wasn't some
emotional part of me, right, didn't It wasn't offended if
somebody walked up to me.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
It's like totally. Man, Yeah, I don't think you're gonna
have that problem between you and Micah. You're gonna make
good records. I mean, I think you'll just keep making
good records regardless. But Mike is so great. He is
Stephen Day, Thanks for being here. What do you have
(53:23):
coming up?
Speaker 2 (53:25):
I have a headline tour. I don't know when this
podcast will drop, but I don't either. But what's next
for me is is touring the record and then the
deluxe versions will come out.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
So it's deluxe version of Gold gold.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Mine, the album, Moonshine, a song called Sweet Iced Tea,
and uh old News.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Okay to or drinks, you know, I know Old News
is probably a drink. That's fun. So headlining, do you
have supporting already.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
Or I do?
Speaker 2 (54:03):
We just added uh support like last week and great songwriters,
great vocalists, amazing artists, Anna Vos, Abby Cone. They're both
Nashville based, right, Yeah, I love them.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
That's awesome. Yeah, dude, thanks so much for being here.
Oh dude, it's so fun. Always fun to hang out
and talk. And I hope you'll come back in three years.
Speaker 3 (54:26):
I will thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Absolutely. I think we got to go on
Welcome to Work Tapes. This is a podcast where we
tear up our songs. Why was the song written, what's
it about, What's the context and emotion behind it? Where
were you at the time, what were you going through?
How did certain lines come to you? What's the inspiration?
How long did it take to write? I'm Brandon Carswell
and I'm fascinated with songwriting. How songs are built from
(00:27):
the ground up. It's easy to hear a full production
song on the radio and dismiss its origin story. I
want to hear the broth draft of the song or
the work tape. I want to explore the very beginning
of how songs that move us and make us move
our born. Hello, everyone, welcome to another episode of Work Tapes.
(00:49):
I'm Brandon Carswell. As usual today I am rejoined. We
have a repeat offender on the show today from about
three years ago, I think on episode twenty. This guy
has been actively doing music for what ten years? Something
(01:09):
like that?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yes, started first EP came out in twenty sixteen, those
close to ten years.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, he has been an opening actor. Teddy Swims, Ben Rector,
Steven Sanchez has over one hundred and forty million streams
in his catalog, sync placements for Universal, all kinds of
stuff going on a new album called gold Mine. Welcome
(01:38):
Stephen Day, Thank you, brother friend and fan right here. Same.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
The feeling is mutual.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
We were connected years ago by Micah talks. When Mike
has started working with you, he would just not stop
talking about how good you were, oh man, and then
connected us when I started the podcast and doing all
this stuff. So thanks for coming back. Of course, I'm
glad it worked out me too.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I guess that would have been the first record with Micah,
like the first time we ever worked together.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I oh Shapes was the first one, I think, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And an what an album. I was just telling my
I told you last time that my kids are big
fans of yours. Yeah yeah, they loved that record, and
I was telling them this morning on the way to school.
Steven's coming over to do another podcast, and I just
started talking about those songs. I was like, man, they're
so that record's so timeless to me.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Oh man, Thank you, bro.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
We talked about the song if Standing was Flying? Is
that what's called?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, weird title, such a great song. So if our
listeners want to know about that song, you should go
back and listen to episode twenty of work Tapes. Man,
what a great song. We also mentioned a song that
is my favorite song of yours called I always call
(02:59):
it the Angel song m gold that record, Yeah, micha
old Angel, my Golden Angel. Yes, what a great song.
Thank you man, so gorgeous. But for those of you
that haven't listen to that episode or no Stevens story
or anything at all, maybe we can go through a
little bit of like where you're from, how you started
(03:22):
in music? Yeah, kind of touch on some of those.
In episode twenty, he goes a little deeper throughout, you know,
when he started in music and writing and all that stuff.
So who are you? What are you doing here? Why
are you here today?
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Well? I came to eat some cookies.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yes, I don't know if you can see those cookies
on the camera, but those are some legit.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
They look so good, good, like a thin airy crisp.
I can already I can almost taste it just looking
at it. I would advise just not eating those cookies
because they're they're that good.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
And I want to keep them.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, I understand, but you're welcome to have some cook
There's definitely I'm definitely getting in there.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
You're here for the cookies, but you're here for the music.
You're from Georgia, right.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yes, you for Georgia.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
It's about forty five minutes northeast of Atlanta. Spent my
whole life there growing up until I moved to Nashville
ten years ago. But like started playing guitar in middle school.
Found my mom's guitar in her closet and I was like,
(04:29):
can you teach me.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
A few chords?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
That bass guitar over there is my mom's. Really she
played it in her gospel group growing up. Really, what
kind of guitar was your mom's?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It's like an old nylon guitar, beautiful guitar. She actually
sent me a picture a few days ago of like
her performing with a friend and it was like, oh
my god, there's the guitar and it's funny, like we
with that guitar specifically, there's so much like to mental value.
(05:01):
She was like wanting to play it, so I like
brought it back down like last year for her to
to play, and I like miss that guitar so much.
But it's a beautiful I mean at the time, I
don't think it was anything special. It's just like a
It was probably a cheap I think she I think
she said, I think she says she like sold her goat.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Wait, she sold the goat to buy that.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I can't remember if it's like a sheep or a goat.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
What are goats going for me?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I don't I don't know, but I think I think
she got the guitar for like forty five bucks.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
It was a cheap goat.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Cheap gut. It wasn't that good of a goat.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
But I I she taught me like D A and G.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Mine was DCG. Yeah, those were my first ones.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I think she still to this day like loved the
key of D mostly because that's like most of the
chords that she knows. But like, once you know one key,
I mean you can play any song. So she taught
me DA and G and I just like YouTube and
(06:17):
ended up getting a guitar instructor at some point in
like later middle school. But like at first, I mean
it was YouTube like sweet Home Alabama, like that kind
of stuff, fell in love with it and almost immediately
started writing songs with guitar just because it was like
I've I've actually never loved covering songs It was always
(06:42):
just kind of like I just naturally wanted to write
my own songs.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Why so, let me back up, how old were you? Yeah,
this would have been then? Why this would have been
seventh grade? Seventh grade, sixth or seventh grade?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
I don't know that the full reason why. But I
liked learning guitar parts to an extent. But I think
I was just so in awe of like artistry, Like
I didn't want to be doing what somebody else did.
I wanted to make my own thing.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
But did you have like a reference, like were you
looking at a certain artist back then in seventh grade
and going or or or an artist that was really influential?
You're like, oh, I want to be John okay, John Mayer.
You want to be John Mayer? Yeah okay, but you
want to be the rock star thing, or you want
(07:43):
to you want the songs, the songs, Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I mean so at the time in middle school, I wasn't.
I mean, I wasn't like I want John Mayer's life.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
It was just like the thing in pop culture that
I that was thrown my way that I latched onto. Sure,
and like later I was also raised on like crooners
and like Sinatra. My mom loves Sinatra, Boubla, and like
it was just this thing of like with that combined
(08:17):
with guitar, I was.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Just kind of like, this is what I want to do.
This is it became.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I didn't know it at the time, but that's like
I think it was the songs and the like ability
to communicate feeling through melody that I was just kind
of like, this is I mean, I couldn't think of
anything else that I wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Right, Were you more intrigued with the guitar playing versus
the songwriting.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
With John or just in general, just in general, just
for you? It was I think because of John it
was intertwined.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, because he's a it was like continuum. Yeah, it's
an unstoppable album.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
It's insane.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Like the writing and the playing and the production all
of it is just top tier. And so he's one
of those guitarists like known for playing like he's a
very specific sound. Yeah, but also he's a brilliant songwriter
and some guitarists aren't writular songwriting.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I think the more I've thought about it as I've
gotten older, is I fell in love with maybe maybe
this is it. I was blown away by the simultaneous
playing and singing over the top of it, like the
two sort of balancing, the balancing act.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
But also I think.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I don't know, you know, I don't know John Mayer,
but like I think he was like a freak about guitar.
I love guitar, but I also love singing and song
like singing was like also a thing at the time.
It was like picking up the guitar sort of opened
up my voice too.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Okay, so let's talk about your voice. So your voice
you mentioned like being influenced by Sinatra and Michael Buble
and things like that, which I definitely hear.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Like actually the description you're you're putting together between John
Mayer and crooner's for like a better word. I always
laugh when I hear that word because I think of
that TV show. I think you should leave it. That
is one of my all times every time I hear
the word crooner.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Now, I just think of that is that's the one
with the cigar and driving decals, the driving Crooner.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
It's it's insane simply to if we start quoting that
week whole episode of be Over. But that's a perfect
description of what I think your style is. Like your
voice and you're playing. I wouldn't say all of the
production would be like a good like a mesh of
(11:15):
those two things. But I hear that in you like
I hear it in your voice. I hear it with
like even the song we're going to talk about today,
which we'll listen through and we'll listen to the work
tape and talk about that with the because it's a
little more like electric driven, like clean electric driven than
(11:36):
some of the past things you've done, I think, And
so I'm interested. Do you have an insanely a good voice,
So I'm interested in where that came from. So if
if you're if you're influenced by people like Sinatra, Boubley,
(11:56):
like all of those guys are are just like can
sing circles around on anybody. Yeah, And I said that
about you in the last episode, and I believe it
to be true. Where did that come from? Where you
mentioned in the last time we got together that you
were in like choirs? Is that right?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Is that where that started developing?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I think choir was a like in high school I
was in I was in choir and it was a
fun way to like sort of grow into being confident
as a singer. But I honestly feel like guitar and
with my voice, like it's always been listening to records
(12:47):
and like trying to imitate Okay and Sinatra Boublay, that's
like a part of it. But like it was like
Stevie Wonder. I think Stevie Wonder was the Stevie Wonder
and Donnie Hathaway were the two singers when I was
growing up that it was unfathomable. There was something about
(13:13):
their voice, their voices that was like an inexhaustible rubber band.
Alan Stone's the same way. He was another huge influence
on me that was a more modern influence. When he
was like in high school, I was like, oh my god,
that's that's the guy. But the same with him, I
(13:34):
think Stevie Wonder and these kinds of guys that came
before were huge influences on his singing and on mine too,
because you know, you listen to any of Stevie Wonder's
song and he might start out down here and then
he goes up and it's just like keeps getting higher, right,
But it doesn't sound like.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
He's singing in like falsetto.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
It sounds like he's going and it's like this really
chesty but still like in a normal person's falsetto range.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's I I still don't understand it.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
It sounds like you understand some of it because you
can do some of it, like I you can get
you can hit those low registers, and like I think
the last I'm not going to reference the last episode
this whole time, but I think the last one I
made mention of your voice, like you have a good
sounding radio podcast voice because I had you intro the
(14:29):
thing we'll use maybe we'll use it on this one. Yeah.
And but when you're singing, I've seen you do this
live where you just pull out this high these high
notes and it's like where did that come from? And
you nail them and thank you and it's great. So
was that like an early on thing? Were you fascinated
(14:51):
with vocals when you were just learning?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Fascinated with vocals? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Man, I mean, I mean I think Stevie Wonder like Mayer,
amazing singer in his own way, but he he to me,
and we can edit this out or not whatever, but
he to me is not like I don't I don't
always think, you know, like Bob Dylan is a great
example of like cool voice technically, Yeah, people aren't like that.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I love listening to that.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Like Johnny Cash was not a good vocalist, but he
could sell, he could read exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
There's there's it's a great voice is a great voice,
whether somebody is like technically a good singer or not.
And I think that's where the whole like krooner thing
comes in. Is like a lot of these crooners like
Glenn Campbell or as another hero of mine, or Sinatra,
it's like you hear their voice and it's almost like
they could sing you a lullaby and you would fall
(15:46):
asleep right there.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
On the spot, right.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
But I think with with with vocals, it was just
I tried so hard to imitate these people.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
In my car in the shower, just me and guitar,
you know.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I just I think in the car is probably where
the most practice came from, which I mean is a
privilege in its own right. But like I just remember
getting I still do it. To get in the car
and listen to music is one of the biggest joys ever.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, it's it's how I cut my teeth practicing vocals
and getting high notes, and like I would, I would sing,
I would try to sing to perfection. Muse radio Head, yeah,
cold Play, Yeah, if I couldn't hit the note, That's
(16:48):
the only song I was listening to for a week
until I could. Yes, bro like on repeat. Yes, So
you're right, like the car is like a sanctuary of
that learning.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
That's another thing that you just brought up, is like
I realized through the years too. And I know, I
know people put songs on repeat, but I've realized over
the years, like with friends or anybody, I leave one
song on repeat forever, like it's annoying because I get
obsessed with it too, And it's just one of these
(17:20):
things that it's it's like.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Do you have one now that you're obsessed with?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Hmm, that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Think about it.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
We'll come back yeah, yeah, Yeah, let's come back to it,
because I mean, I there's all there's honestly songs that
I could if I really thought about it, I can
like remember having you know, extended periods of time with it,
like like the song as by Stevie Wonder on songs
in the ke Keevolay, he does this growl in like
the third verse, and it's like, oh, I can't remember
(17:50):
how he does it, but it's this growl and I
I remember trying to do it for hours and I
still I still can't do it. But he's just an
example of somebody that, like Deanne's is another vocal example
of like, if I want to work on my falsetto,
I'll just put on a D'Angelo record and my throat
will be toast in about ten minutes.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, I think like there's correct obviously, there's correct ways
to do those things. Yeah, but like you're saying, I
just did it in the car as well.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, it's the most fun. I mean, you should be
having fun if you want to.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Well let's talk about your writing style then, because it's
do you write everything from really fun songs like the
one we're going to talk about today is fun? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
and then you'll write really heavy songs or really deep
songs or something that's like sad but it's got.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
A groove, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, when you started writing what early on? Yeah? What
was like? What were you from? What were you just
trying to make a song to make it?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Or or at what point did you go, oh, this
can mean something, I have something to say.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, that's a great that's a great question. I think
there is.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I mean some of this is so on like a
subconscious level. Like I think when I was a kid
and I first started writing songs, there was something in
me that just wanted to convey emotion, Like maybe maybe
I was needing to, like you know, therapeutically make something
(19:36):
to or feel something.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
But I feel like.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
My like as like a as a storyteller and as
a lover of music, I've almost always been over and
over again. I'm like the songs that sometimes like wreck
Me or like take Me off my Feet are like
these like hopeless romantic love songs. It's it's kind of
(20:02):
always been like that. I think that's why I say
the word crooner. And I've been described as a crooner
by some people, which I don't mind. Like I feel
like some people there's like a bad connotation with that.
Start smoking cigar, it's like Fedora whole thing, cocky walk
when they come out, all of them. Yes, but yeah,
(20:24):
there's like this part of me that's like I don't
a lot of times songwriting for me, you know, there's
all kinds of songwriting. And I think sometimes the most
effective as a listener for me are sometimes songs that
have nothing to do with specific moments, if that makes sense.
(20:47):
Like sometimes a love song or like a heartbreak song
is just comforting.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Because it is what it is and it's a story.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, it's just like everybody. I think that's another thing
is everybody understands romance and the heaviness and the beauty
of it. It's like a very humanizing.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, it's super relatable. And you can write a love
song has nothing to do with anyone specifically. Yeah, Like
it could be the whole love song could be a
metaphor for your exactly, whatever you're going through exactly, and
you don't that way, you don't have to tell anybody
what you're going through exactly, and unless you just want
to write a super honest ro piece, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, And I think that's I think that's what it was.
Is Like naturally, I'm sort of a private person, but
there's something about melody and lyric that you can you
can be so vulnerable without you know, showing people.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
What is it about the private person that makes them
want to go out on stage?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
You know, like the enter it becomes the lead singer
guy I know I or the solo artist, and all
of a sudden, you can you can do that on stage,
but in real life you're like.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
No, yeah, I mean I feel that.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
I'm like, it's like it gives you permission, Like being
able to do a show gives you permission to do that. Yeah,
But if you brought would you be I know the
answer for myself. But if if you know, it's like
a living room of people and they're saying, like, here
play this, Yeah, are you more comfortable?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
You know, that's an interesting question.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Playing the Stephen Day Show or plays a couple of songs,
you know, for five people and who know you really.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Well, I'm actually not as good at that. Yeah, when
it's I get more nervous for shows that people I
know are going to be Yep, I'm like one because this,
you know, what I do is very personal to me.
But at the same time, I'm like, it's basically putting
(23:13):
a career on display, you know, whereas like it's like
bringing your friend to work day, and it's like if
it's a family member or a friend, and it's like
a show that sells like fifteen people, you know, fifteen
people show up and it's like your mom's there, you know,
after the show's she's like you did such a great job.
You know, it's like mom, or like anybody your friend
(23:35):
is like, dude, great show, and it's like thank you.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
But I mean it's kind of blue.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, so you're supposed to say that, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly,
you're my mom exactly. Yeah, that's that's a look. Fortunately,
it seems like you're doing great. Thank you. You've been
selling out. I was fortunate enough to go to see
you at was that the Brooklyn Bawl. Yes, Yes, that
(24:02):
was a great show.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Headline was yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, that was fantastic, Thank you man. It was fun.
It was big. I've seen you at like the Basement,
I think the Brooklyn Bowl Like it felt like, oh
you just teared up a notch. Oh cool, you know,
like the band was just like the band was great
every time I've seen you. But and this new record
(24:27):
is so much fun.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I do want to cover uh co writing yea. Do
you enjoy co writing or do you would you rather
just write by yourself?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Co writing has been a something that I've sort of
stumbled into living in Nashville, and.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I just feel like a lot of people say that, like,
which is interesting to me. Yeah, not to cut you off,
I want you to continue, But I feel like a
lot of people are like, moved to town and don't
know that co writing is a thing? Is that how
you I knew.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
It was a thing.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Okay, I didn't want any part of it. Good, I'm
glad I interrupted there was there was early on I
didn't want any part of it. And then I realized
that I there was some part of me that was like,
I think I should push against that part of me
(25:31):
to at least try it.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Why didn't you want to do it?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Writing felt too personal or felt too I felt maybe
I maybe I felt cocky, or maybe I felt like
I wanted it to be exactly the way I wanted
it to. And over time I was kind of like,
I think I just realized the truth of co writing
is like you can go write a song with somebody
(25:58):
and you never have to use that song or listen
to it ever.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Again. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah? It does.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Like with the like other hand, being like you might
write the best song you've ever written with this random
guy or girl in this town and it might be
your favorite song on the record.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
How do you push through like the awkward moments of
a co write, there's always there's almost always depending on
who you're with, right, if you know them really well,
it might be a different situation, like, yeah, you and
Mike are writing at this point, it's probably second nature, right,
But if you and I sat down to write a
song we know each other, we don't know each other,
(26:42):
and there would be this like, hey, I want to
write about this, well, I want to write about this,
or yeah, let's what do you think about this line?
And when you don't know somebody really well, you get
really like you're vulnerable. Yeah, you're throwing creative ideas where
somebody can say no, that's stupid, right, although they probably wouldn't,
but you'd feel that way, right.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, I think there. I think there's just a bunk.
There's a there's like a muscle that I've built or
am building with with with co writing. Because when I
started co writing, I was, you know, had thought about
it for myself and also talked with my manager about it.
I was kind of like, I never want to lose
(27:25):
writing by myself. Sure, And that was another lie that
I had told myself was if I start co writing,
when am I gonna write by myself? That's the end
of that. Yeah, and that's just not the truth. Like
we've built out my schedule in a way. That's like
some co writing, some writing by.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Myself because because some part of it is.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
You, you never know which one is going to yield
the thing, right, the like magic because both can and
I think with co writing, Yeah, there are some awkward
moments for sure. I mean you sometimes you you have
no control over that. Like some days you're with people
(28:11):
you've never met before and it's just a bad fit
and you never do it again. Right.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Do you trust yourself more by yourself?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That's a great question, man, we're digging deep, you are,
That's a great question.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I you know the.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
No, you don't, okay, So you feel I guess that
would lead into like, do I have more confidence co
writing with someone throw my ideas out than I do
writing solo and then presenting this song to my team
or my producer or whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, I mean it probably depends on the day, Like
I mean sometimes it just honestly, it depends where the
magic is. Like some days I write it by myself,
and I'm like, this is something like the demo we're
looking at today is a song I started by myself.
(29:14):
I was alone, and there was something about it that one.
There's a lot of interesting stuff we'll get into, but one,
this song didn't make I wrote it before the record,
and it didn't make the record, And I wrote it
before gold Mine, before gold Mine, and I wrote it
(29:34):
by myself. Later on, took it in as we're doing
putting out a deluxe bonus for the record, and we
tweaked me and Mica tweaked some parts of it, but
like the bones of it I wrote by myself, and
I just remember this feeling of like something musically about
this song is so distinctly me, something melodically every part
(29:58):
of it. And I had like a tough time sort
of like trying to persuade my manager to get it
on the record, but I never stopped thinking about it,
Like it sat in a folder that was called definitely
Deaf record. Definitely on the record, Yeah, And it was
the only song that didn't make the record that that
(30:18):
was in there, that was in there.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Wow, Yeah, that's frustrating, but.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
It was something that I wanted, Like this record was
an experiment I sort of wanted. I sort of invited
my manager into like the A and R ing process,
like the Okay, I'm gonna be a little more open
handed about this, I want to know. I think I
was like willing to put myself up and be like
(30:45):
do you like this?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Do you not like this?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Micah was involved in that process too. It was the
first time that I was like, I don't want to
be the end.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
All be allay, even though I still was.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yeah, but if you have a song that you really
love and everyone else is going, no, that's not the one.
Oh it sucked, and you're like, yeah, I think it
is the one I know, but not to be loose
handed with it because I'm trying this thing out.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, but that's That's a good example of what we
were talking about is like confidence. It's like a little
harder to be confident when you write something by yourself
because you're like, this was all made in this vacuum,
whereas like if you're co writing with people and like
you know, when something's hot, sure, like everybody's kind of like, dude,
(31:31):
this isn't Do.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
You have an example of a co write that.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Went like that, Yeah, there's another song on the Deluxe
called Old News.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
I can play for it. I don't know if you've
heard it.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I think i've heard it.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Okay, there's another one called old News and I wrote it.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
It was a co write with.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Micah Austin Goodlow, Josie Dunn, amazing writers.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, and we.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Wrote it really fast, and I just all of us.
I mean, I remember walking down to eat lunch when
we had like I think we had finished the song, yeah,
and I was like this, Josie. I think Josie can
recall this, but I think I was like, this is
sort of like off hand out. I was like, this
is the best song, this is the best song ever.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, but it's just like it. I think there's I mean, obviously,
some great songs take.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Sort of like tireless amounts of work or like you
just work on them forever and like.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Tweak little parts.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
But like there's other there's other songs where it's just
like it happens and it's done and everybody's just like
agrees on it.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, like something dropped out of the sky.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
What's frustrating to your point about the song Moonshine that
we're going to talk about it being in your folder
for gold Mine the record, and then you trusting yourself
enough to go, this is a great song. Eventually I'm
gonna put it out as you you knowing, like you
(33:15):
just know, yeah, as an artist. You see what I'm
getting at is you see something that no one else
is seeing, even the people who are behind you and
backing you up and working with you and saying this
is not quite the one. It's a great song, but
it's not quite the one that we're looking for the record.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Like I don't think, I mean, I don't know what
Micah thought. Yeah, but like I don't think. I don't
think my manager would mind me saying this, but like
I don't think she thought it was good.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Yeah, just straight up right. And I have built the
muscle to be like.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
All right, I understand, yeah, but it doesn't. It never
left me. It never went away from me. I was like,
this is just there's some reason this thing's like biting
me on the.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
As I was listening to like a Rick Rubin quots
or clip or something where he said, like the interviewer
asks him about some about what people think about music
or something, he goes, I don't care what they think
I'm not writing it for them, yeah, which seems like
such a backhanded, almost like a jerk thing to say.
(34:18):
But as the writer, as the artist, if you're not
making it for you, yeah, it's not going to translate.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
If you don't like it it.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Basically, he got to the thing. It's like, you can
make it for people, but that's just commerce. You're just
selling a product for what somebody needs or wants. But
if you're making art, you're making it for you and
it's whatever's coming out and whatever. You know, when you
write a crap song, god, yeah, yeah, and you know
(34:48):
when it could be better and all of those things.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
When you write a crap song, you one example that
going back to Moonshine, if you write a crap song,
you know, the day of or you know, a few
days after, you might think it's good, and you might
show it to somebody and you might be like, what
do you think of this? But at some point, if
(35:15):
it's an actual crap song, you're going to be like, yeah,
this is crap.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I feel like I wish I didn't send it to
five people. I've done that so many times.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
But but if you if a song doesn't if a
song haunts you.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
There's something about that, but you also will see something
in it where maybe maybe the work tape or the
demo or the voice memo doesn't quite capture what you
were envisioning.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Right, which is why I sent you the early one. Yeah,
it's a it's a bad loop. Yeah, I love that loop.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Let's talk about Moonlight or Moonshine. I knew I was
going to do that. I knew it. I've envisioned in
my mind. I'm going to say.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Moment rewind Sorry, Moonshine.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
The song we're going to talk about is called Moonshine.
Let's double down on the title since I mess it up. Yes,
this song is fun. It feels like I'm listening to
it right now. We're recording this in January, but it
feels like a summer song. Yeah, it has those vibes.
(36:26):
It's just like very like makes me think of like,
you know, literally hanging out with your friends on a
summer night. Yeah, that's what the song.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, I think when I was writing it, that was
the magic part of it that I couldn't get away from.
There was like this like nostalgic Yeah, like summer night,
skinny dip feeling to it that.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I was like.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
The energy was in there and I just had to
figure out a way to get it to the finish line.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, let's go through some of the work tape. Yeah,
for this one, we're gonna do it a notch different.
We're going to talk about it as we go. Most episodes,
by the way, for those of you that are just
joining work tapes, most episodes, we don't do it this way.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Start with that. Well, you can start with whatever first. Yeah,
first demo, it's got the.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Let's make sure this is gonna work.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
All right, So you got that loop going on that
you you said wasn't good.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
It's good.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, loop is not really even in time, Like I remember,
I cut it up and I was like, I don't
know why I like that, but it's like, yeah, sloppy
drums that Yeah, Okay, that's good.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
That's all. You want to hear the song?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Well, we can play the whole What do you think
we should do.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
We'll go to the next song.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Let's talk about this.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
You first say, okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
So this, after being away from it for a long time,
I still think it had all the bones, but I
can remember when we went to choose the songs for Goldmine. Yeah,
we were trying to do like a very cohesive thing,
(38:36):
very family. Every song is like a brother sister cousin unit.
And I remember I wrote this song the day of
when we were deciding on what songs put on the record,
and so I went in with Maddie and Micah and
we like did a bunch of sticky notes. Everybody kind
of put the songs they wanted and you know, the
(38:58):
yes box or the no box, and I played this
one at the very end. I was like, Hey, just
you know one more song that I want to throw
in the bag, and the room was just kind of like,
I don't know, like we've got all these songs we
already had been listening to, and so it just kind
of like missed the boat.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
It's like when Ringo brought in his songs to the Beatles.
Is that what the vibe was like, Oh, thanks, No,
I've seeing those memes that I think they're hilarious. Yeah, yeah, sorry, good, No,
you're good.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
But it was just like, I think it felt different
enough from the record that I understand why I didn't
get thrown on. But I think there was some part
of me that like I was trying to fuse. Well,
I'll just say this, I think the second demo that
(39:54):
I sent you is one I just like totally hyped up, okay,
sort of popified. Yeah, just I just wanted to like
throw a bunch of juice on it to send it
to my manager, because basically we were trying to pick
songs for the Deluxe and I was like, hey, you know,
I know this isn't your favorite song, but like give
(40:15):
this demo a shot. And it's like kind of totally different.
I mean, it's like, okay, so let's just like jacked
up on mountain. Let's listen to like ten seconds of
the first one we just listened to, and then we'll
go straight into the second.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Version that you juiced.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
First demo.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
First demo's right here, bare.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Bones, drums, guitar and a vocal. That's it.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Okay, so you kind of got that vibe down, and
now we'll go into the second one.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
It's got this like stomp clap thing. It feels like
a hoe down throwdown.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Oh yeah, there's the juice right there.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
But there even there definitely, yeah, there was even something
about this one, because I mean I like this.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
I I made it. I like the way I produced it,
but there was still something that it like.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
It was almost two up or something. I I even
kept the baseline on the chorus like moving almost like disco,
which I think is cool, but there was something about
well one overall. One of the reasons why I couldn't
(41:40):
get rid of this song was there's something musically about
it in the chorus, specifically like in the In the
very first demo, I didn't know what to play on
the chorus because I didn't know what was going to
happen with the chorus, so I just stayed on the
one while I go shine rightdo so like it just
(42:08):
stays there, And I thought that was so sick. But
if you listen down to it just feels like nothing's
happening on the chorus. So I was trying to figure
out what to do with that chorus in the second demo,
and I figured something out, but it still didn't feel
like it was conveying the right emotion, which is what
(42:31):
I think we finally got to with the final was
this this feeling of like, yeah, this is a fun song.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
But there's also like some like nostalgia, like.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
What about this part. You cut this part out?
Speaker 3 (42:46):
I got it. Yeah, the juice enough. We cut this.
I remember, I remember when we cut the shot.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Were you disappointed?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I think we both me and Michael were. I think
we were because we had gotten to this point where
the Sha La Las were there?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Can we start a band called the Las?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Easy? Yes, ready, easy, yes easy?
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
We only sing songs that are like phonetic, there's no
actual lyrics.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Dude, and we are yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, but yeah, so we we cut the Shalla Laws,
which I mean, I mean, I guess I am bummed about.
But there was this moment where we had the whole
song mapped out. It was feeling really cool and the
outro was sort of this party, which is sick.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
It's great, but it's.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Sort of dragged on to me. I was we we
just tried cutting it and now it ends with this yeah,
and I think that is so cool.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
It's still a party.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Yeah, it's still a party.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
I mean, the video for this song is I'm sure
you already have it figured out, but I bet it's
going to be fun. Yeah, it's going to be a party.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
It's gotta be. It's gotta be.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I feel like I can see it.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
It's gotta be.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
But yeah, we basically what happened was we tried cutting
the Sha La Las and it was the last thing
we did the night before I was coming back to
work again the next day with Micah, and we cut it.
The next morning. We came in and we listened down
with the shortened abbreviated version, and we both were like,
(44:40):
that doesn't feel that doesn't feel wrong right, So it
was like, who knows if we made the right decision,
but it's what felt right.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Well, listen, if anyone wants to hear the Sha La lads,
just rewind.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
This episode loop that.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
You've got it here exclusively. You could always do like
a I'd be at the Sha Lah lots there. If
you want you own this music, this is yours you
can do.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Did this song take a long time to write?
Speaker 3 (45:13):
One day, one morning.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
One morning, it's a few hours.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, like before I went into it was before before
I went in to pick the songs for the record.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
A question go ahead.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
That was another thing about this song. That kind of
what we were talking about with Mayor and my obsession
with like simultaneous guitar vocal thing is like I was
hypnotized by.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
The verse guitar part.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Okay, dun't doom, doom, doom, doom.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Don't don't doom.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
It was so fun to play and it was so
dreamy to sing something looked at like something sustained and
sort of like it's really simple, Like the first verse is,
don't it feel good on a Friday night with some
good friends? And it's like this this thing where it's
(46:13):
like it feels like a jam and then you're.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Just doing it feel good. It feels like sensitive or something.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Vibe.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a vibe. Yeah, it's nice.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
It sets a tone, it sets the image don't feel
good on a Friday night, drink a couple of beers
with your friends. Yeah, like that's you're like the backyard
chilling by the fire. Whatever.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
It's a vibe.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
It's definitely a vibe. When you write a song like that,
if it takes a while, like you have a few
songs that are really fun and if I'm curious, if
it takes a long time to write, does it take
any of the fun out of it for you? Do
you like writing songs quickly? I think everybody likes so
(47:00):
maybe that's a dumb question.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
It does take the fun out of.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
It to when it's like a.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
When you get stuck. I mean, honestly, that was a
part of this song too, is like what I finished
is not the is not the final song. Micah and
I went and.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Reapproached the back half of the verse because the verse
was all sustained like that, don't it feel good on
a Friday night with some good friends where the music's.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Tied, and then it said originally it said it again,
don't it feel good?
Speaker 3 (47:35):
Don't it feel right?
Speaker 2 (47:38):
But every time we would get to that, basically, Micah
was like, I'm hearing something that picks up on that
back half.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
And that's when we wrote the.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Couppies in a backyard band baby.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
And it's like, honestly, to me, saved the song like
there was I knew there was something in the song.
The song was a fight production wise, not between me
and Micah, but me and Micah against the song.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Sure to get it right, like we did. We spent.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Like kind of most of a day hashing out what
was supposed to happen in the chorus. Like you know,
when I first wrote it, I left that chorus open
because I was like this feels so dreamy if I'm
just hanging on the one chord, but I don't know,
something has to happen.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
It just won't move.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Like a song if you just stay there, right, And
so we got in and so I did the little
disc go boom boom, boom boom on that second demo demo.
But when we got in, when we got into work
on like the final version, it turned into this like
(48:55):
open change, chang yes, following the melody, and as soon
as we got there it felt right. So we followed that,
but then we couldn't find We couldn't figure out where
the chords should land. It was like we kept puzzle piecing, like.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
And they're kind of right in the pocket right.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Exactly, but like we tried like this is weird, we
can edit this out. But like Qardally, I think we
were like trying to decide where the four chord or
the two chords should land, and we just kept puzzle piecing.
Like all of it felt good, but it wasn't until
(49:36):
we landed on the whatever we landed on, I can't
even remember, yeah, that we were like that's it, don't
touch it, like we finally found it, and the chorus
kind of stays open. It feels huge, and I just
remember being like, thank God, like it was such a
(49:58):
fun struggle. It was truly. I remember when I brought
it to Micah. I was like, I was like, dude,
I have to do this song. And I was just
gonna say on the front end, there's something about this
song that like we're gonna have to like fight with
and like, yeah, figure out, and he's like, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Let's do you ever have a song that you fight
with releasing.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Like I don't want to put out, but then I
put it out or vice versa, maybe both.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
But like like you've done like you let's pretend like
you brought this song in and you're like I want
to do this song now, yeah, and then you're sitting
on it and you're like it's done. You figured it out,
struggle with it. What if I don't want to release
it now? You know? Has that ever happened? I'm sure
(50:55):
there's songs that you haven't released, but I just mean, like.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
There's definitely songs I haven't released.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
Surprisingly to that question, I've always just financially like I
haven't like if you're gonna get somebody else to produce
your record unless it's a buddy, which is totally great
that is going to like cut you a steal deal.
(51:20):
But like my experience has been like, all right, I've
got to pick the songs before I go in to cut,
because like this is costing me an arm in la
you know.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
So, and not releasing it would be stupid.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, I think, honestly, gratefully, I've always felt like there's
something about making music to me that I'm like, if
I can get it out and released, I forget about it.
I'm like, I just got to get it out and
move on.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
I Yeah, I think I'm very much of the mindset
like if I don't put it out, I'm not gonna
move on.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Do you care? Do you have any like and by
all means to be as honest as possible, do you
care what people think after you've released it? Obviously we
all want people to like our part. No, But at
the end of the day, it's it's kind of like
once you put it out, isn't it It's like it's
up to them.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah, I know, I really on one hand, I really care. Yeah,
and then.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
So like the the human part of me really cares.
Speaker 3 (52:32):
The artist part of me.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
I feel grateful for as well. There's like there is
some part of my brain and heart that's like I
love this. Yeah, I don't care if you love it.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Yeah, I love it good, But like, but I need
to make a living too, so you need to like it.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, there is that there
is you know.
Speaker 3 (52:56):
You can't you can't.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
I would be lying if I said there wasn't some
emotional part of me, right, didn't It wasn't offended if
somebody walked up to me.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
It's like totally. Man, Yeah, I don't think you're gonna
have that problem between you and Micah. You're gonna make
good records. I mean, I think you'll just keep making
good records regardless. But Mike is so great. He is
Stephen Day, Thanks for being here. What do you have
(53:23):
coming up?
Speaker 2 (53:25):
I have a headline tour. I don't know when this
podcast will drop, but I don't either. But what's next
for me is is touring the record and then the
deluxe versions will come out.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
So it's deluxe version of Gold gold.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Mine, the album, Moonshine, a song called Sweet Iced Tea,
and uh old News.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Okay to or drinks, you know, I know Old News
is probably a drink. That's fun. So headlining, do you
have supporting already.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
Or I do?
Speaker 2 (54:03):
We just added uh support like last week and great songwriters,
great vocalists, amazing artists, Anna Vos, Abby Cone. They're both
Nashville based, right, Yeah, I love them.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
That's awesome. Yeah, dude, thanks so much for being here.
Oh dude, it's so fun. Always fun to hang out
and talk. And I hope you'll come back in three years.
Speaker 3 (54:26):
I will thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Absolutely. I think we got to go on
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