May 8, 2025 • 22 mins
On Sports Fix with D'Arcy Waldegrave for Thursday 8 May 2025, NZ Herald rugby scribe Gregor Paul unpacks whether NZR’s record $285 million dollar gain makes up for the $19.5 million dollar loss. To paraphrase my favourite Celt - no.
D’Arcy looks at the Black Ferns' build up to the World Cup, his highlight being the reworked probables-possibles collision.
The Chamber is inhabited by D’Arcy and fellow fixer Jason Pine, talking rugby fiscal results, AKFC awards and Doohan's F1 demise.
Big thanks to GJ Gardner Homes - New Zealand's most trusted home builder.
Get 'Sports Fix' every weekday afternoon on iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This is Sportsfix Howard by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Hello there, and welcome into a fresh edition of the
Sportsbox Podcast. It is Thursday, May eighth.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
We're here in association with G. J.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Gardner Holmes, New Zealand's most trust at the home Builder.
My name's Jason.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Pie and the Wei is Jason Pine and myself Darcy Walmergrave.
Speaker 5 (00:36):
Great to be of service again in the sports Box Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Absolutely, we love being of service to you, and today
we can serve you up well, a dose of opinion
for the sports news and a different voice from ours.
Who's our guest this afternoon, dust in other news, Let's
get underway whether a look at some of the big
sports stories around today New Zealand right by CEO Mark
Robinson is putting their nineteen and a half million dollar
(01:02):
loss on foreign exchange losses and investment and content and
their streaming service for Box of NA opened up showing
the National body's posted total accumulated glasses of around seventy
six million dollars over the last three years.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
You always want to be an end of the profit years,
but we just have to acknowledge that if those were
part of the special effects, which is certainly something that
propped up later in the year, it was overall a
reasonable positive performance.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Are they morning in Europe for Paris Chamn.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
At Paris Shah to the final look at Champions Lee
for only.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
The second time in their history.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Their PSG have beaten Arsenal three to one on aggregate
after a two to one home win in the second
leg and a downcast reaction from Brandon Smith after admitting
he's probably played his last game for the Roosters in
the NRL, the Kiwis hooker has reportedly set for an
immediate release to rival Sydney club The Rabbit.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
O's definitely looks that way. While there's articles and conversations
I'm having.
Speaker 7 (02:04):
Everything I've read so far doesn't seem like I'm very wanted.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, Robert and me just before well, there's a good
conversation like it as nicely as I may.
Speaker 7 (02:13):
We're just trying to save some money.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Use and a vinyon It's Sportsfix with Jason Hine and
Dussy Waldegrave.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
And the pressure starts to be applied come Saturday, when
the defending world champions, the Black Ferns take on Australia
the first game of two for the Lore O'Reilly Trophy.
This is the start of their Pack four tournament and
where they take on Canada and the USA as well.
They will have a warm up match, maybe a possible's
(02:45):
probables match. I suppose you'd call it up against the
Black Fern fifteens.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
But besides that, there's not a great deal for the Black.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Ferns to do test match wise ahead of the upcoming
World Cup. Two ways of looking at this, will the
team be wildly underdone when it comes to working in
their new players, working in their new ideals, their concepts,
their attack, the defense plans or will like with the
(03:17):
All Blacks in a World Cup year, be a good thing.
The All Blacks are never severely tested when it comes
to frequency of matches during a World Cup year, so
why should it be any different for the Black Ferns.
Saturday's match should be a lot of fun. The game
against Canada may be a tad on the stressful side.
(03:37):
The USA, I don't know. Against the Black Ferns fifteen though,
the second string team if you will, that offers so much,
I believe for the game of rugby will heart back
to the old days of possibles, probables, Black v White.
Back when I was a lad, it was an all
black trial. We enjoyed those matches, they had so much
(04:00):
on them. Northeast South even which we've tried again. But
the probable possibles to me, could be the best in
engagement for the Black Ferns this year before they go
and try and defend their title at the Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
If they do, it'll be a victory for the Ages.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
And there is debate around whether they go an attempt
to win the Rugby World Cup again or defend the
Rugby World Cup. It's all semantics. The path they take
is irrelevant. So long as they achieve the ultimate prize
and are crowned Women's Rugby World Champions.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
We've got just the ticket. It's Sports Vex.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
We'll join now on Effects by Gregor, Paul and Zell
and the Herald Senior Rugby writer. As we look at
the last and we look at the games good days
here Gregor, Oh Darcy, crazy story today or crazy story
in the fact that they may have lost nineteen and
a half million dollars, but they did bill for two
to eighty five million dollars, So it's a good news
(05:07):
and a bad news story, right, Well, no.
Speaker 7 (05:10):
It's a bad news story, you know.
Speaker 8 (05:14):
Like the fact that they made or generated two hundred
and eighty five million dollars of revenue is being overplayed
as a source of good news in my view.
Speaker 7 (05:25):
Look, that's that is a good figure, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 8 (05:28):
However, we've got to go and contrast and compare it
with previous numbers, pre silver Lake, New Zealand Rugby's equity
partner coming into the business in twenty twenty two. Because
the reason that they came in and we're given the
chance to invest, was because they were going to make
these transformational shifts in revenue.
Speaker 7 (05:49):
So we were sold this.
Speaker 8 (05:50):
Idea that revenue would climb in excess of I think
the initial forecast had revenue way in excess to three
hundred million by twenty twenty four, and it was two
hundred and eighty five, which is only I think off
the top of my.
Speaker 7 (06:04):
Head, I can't remember now.
Speaker 8 (06:05):
I think it's about twelve percent increase on last But
when you look at where that increase came from, the
majority of it actually came from interest payments that New
Zealand Rugby received as a result of having Silver Lakes
money in the back. So the biggest growth of revenue
(06:27):
was interest. Now that's not a great story when you
get down to it, and that is not fitting in
with a picture that we were sold three years ago.
So I don't think it's good news bad news. I
think it's bad news, bad news.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Extrapolate this as far as Silver Lakes engagement, what they
actually bring, what they've done, if anything, What do we
learn about their involvement in this through these results.
Speaker 8 (06:52):
Well, I'll make this answer very short. The answer to
what have they brought? Nothing?
Speaker 7 (06:57):
You know, that's the sad part here.
Speaker 8 (06:59):
This was the warning that people like me and a
few others who weren't seduced by private equities sales pitch
always said was that they don't bring capability. They're not
rugby people per se. They don't have a magic wand
they don't actually have the answers to.
Speaker 7 (07:18):
The problems that New Zealand Rugby thinks that it has.
Speaker 8 (07:22):
And if you look at it, you go, well, okay.
The revenue model that New Zealand Rugby presented today is
no different to the one that they've been following for
the last thirty years of professionalism. So they made their
money out of selling METEA RTEs, sponsorships and match day revenues,
which is what they've been doing forever. They played a
(07:43):
few games offshore and then the USA and Japan last year,
but they've been doing that for the last ten or
fifteen years as well. So there's nothing new in what
silver Lake have brought to the table. They haven't changed
anything except for the fact that they've parked money in
New Zealand's bank account. But of course, as much as
you know New Zealand's benefiting from that, they also have
(08:05):
to pay interest on that loan. So we're in a
sort of truly ridiculous position when you Zealand banks twelve
million in interest or fourteen million in interest, but has
to pay twelve million back in interest to silver Leak.
And I am honestly thinking if an eight year old
came up with us as a financial model in a
primary school project, you would smile nicely and try and
(08:28):
redirect them into coming up with a better idea.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Talking about silver Lake Back in the day when this occurred,
do I distinct they're a member saying, hey, this is Shakespeare,
this is Merchant to Venice, and Silverlake are Shylock, and
they will get their pound of flesh. Don't you worry.
They're in this for money, They're not in this for
the goodness of rugby. And you talked about people are
being seduced by that concept and it did work, which
(08:53):
brings me to my next point around this. When you
look at their NZR plus, which is probably part of
this brave new world of silver Lake, which appears to
have not made a great deal of money, if any, it's.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
Costing them a fortune. How long is their piece of rope?
Speaker 4 (09:10):
How long before a group that are a rugby organization
who really should stick to rugby, stick to the admitting
realize they're not broadcasters, they can't make content, and maybe
their upcoming agreement with Sky has to work along that track.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
They're spreading themselves to things is not what they do, right.
Speaker 7 (09:31):
Oh, I couldn't agree with you more, Darcy. That's absolutely right.
It is a staggering amount of money.
Speaker 8 (09:37):
And for people like you and I either work in
the media industry, I'm not being facetious.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
I'm being absolutely genuine.
Speaker 8 (09:45):
When you start to think about twelve million dollars got
invested in nz our plus last year. Now you start
to think what twelve million dollars would feel like coming
into the Herald's newsroom or zb's.
Speaker 7 (09:58):
Newsroom, and what you've been able to do with that money.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
Because we're currently living in an existential crisis as media people,
and you look at that angle, Wow, if we had
that amount of money, results could be extraordinary with what
we could do. And then you look at New Zealand
Rugby and go to your point, they're not they're not
broadcast people.
Speaker 7 (10:15):
So they look at so they've got execs who.
Speaker 8 (10:17):
Have got literally no idea what they are talking about
in the space in my view, and they say things, oh,
we've got you know, one billion views on YouTube, and
I go, whoo, pretty do you've probably got you can
put an all black Hakker video and maybe a best
of highlight highlights package and I guarantee you you'd probably
get similar results. When we've got social media influencers who
(10:41):
on you know, around the world, people going off to
restaurants and tourism landmarks and they produce TikTok videos and
these guys are probably spending low hundreds of thousands on
their content production and driving millions of dollars back and
winning literally tens of millions of followers. So you start
comparing and contrasting, you know, how you build an audience
(11:05):
with the with the budget that they've put at this
and there's no way can you tell me that this
is a good return on investment. And to your point,
how long can they keep going? Not one more day?
If I'm the New Zealand Rugby board, I think you've
got to slash that budget by at least ten million
and say here's two million dollars and even that is
(11:26):
wildly generous for an organization that simply doesn't know what
it's doing.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
The chamber is now in session on sports Vex.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Let us stop hop into the chamber where we're in
the chamber. Let to start talking in the chamber and
see if we can make some sense of New Zealand
Rugby's nineteen and a half million dollar loss for last year. Now,
since Silver eight came on board as an equity partner
in mid twenty twenty two, New Zealand Rugbies posted total
accumulated losses of around seventy six million dollars over three years.
(11:56):
They are, however, trumpeting record income of two hundred and
eighty five million. I guess when you talk about numbers,
they always say you look at the bottom line first.
A third great loss, Darcy. I mean on the field,
three losses ain't great financially, three losses. It doesn't sound
great to me.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
No, it doesn't. But remember a couple of years ago
the size of the loss it was enormous. I thought
it was going to sink inst out. What was it,
forty plus million dollars. So there has been improvements. So
you look at areas where it's been improved. I think
the big thing you look at, and this is all
about what happens with NZR plus and the amount of
(12:37):
money they're investing into that, where the returns are, how
long it actually lasts. What are the expectations around content
from the fan base? Remember silver Out, They're right, they
want to tap into the global fan base. They want
to tap into the unknown, all black fans out there.
This is one of the ways they can do it.
They might be seeking guessing that, but how long would
(12:58):
you give it, Jason, to keep working this until it
actually turns a profit or that keeps I suppose dribbling money.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
They probably best to.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
It can't be a money pit, You're right to us.
It cannot be a black hole that they just keep
pouring money into without getting any return back on it.
I mean that's basic economics, isn't it. That if your
outgoings continue to exceed your incomings, then something has to change.
And some would say that, you know, when you make
(13:29):
three straight losses, you maybe need to cut your cloth
to sit a little bit more. You run a household income,
presumably I run a household income. If your outgoings are
more than what you got coming in, then you need
to make some changes. That's deviating away from what you've
asked me. I like the idea of NZR plus, I
really do, and I want to. I want people to
(13:49):
get on there and engage with the all blacks. But
I just wonder what kind of content is going to
do that for them if it's not live rugby matches,
and it doesn't seem as though that is in the
short term plan anyway.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Oh, you know, lots of live games and warm props
a bums on seats, but not in you zel be
all over the world.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
That's maybe where it might be.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
What I'm fascinated is the relationship between Sky Television and
end z are. Because they're negotiating for rights, they think
the rights are going to be diminished somewhat the cost.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
It's not worth as much. But then you look at
ends are plus.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
And think, well, you're kind of fighting against Sky who
you want to be a broadcast partner. So how does
that unfold in time? Do they just go Okay, you're
a profession of the space, will let you do it?
And is there a negotiation point there for ongoing broadcast rights?
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Just here, I'm going there.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I do. I totally saw you're going there. And look,
New Zealand Rugby are not a broadcast business. They are
a rugby business and that's why they you know, they
sell the rights to broadcast their top ash on on
of matches, you know, the teams in Black, Super Rugby
in PC and Fara Palmer Cup, all of those petitions
(15:08):
because they are not a broadcaster. If they are going
to broadcast or sorry, if they're going to produce these
matches in the house, that just opens up an entirely
new cost center for them. Yes, they don't have to
they you know, they don't have the and they don't
have the income from Sky, but they can sell direct
to consumer. They would just have to be absolutely certain
(15:30):
that everybody who buys Sky for the Rugby would give
New Zealand Rugby the money if it was them who
was providing it. If I made sense there.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
Yeah, it's so convoluted, this whole situation.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I think you make the great point around inst a
Rugby out they're not broadcasters. And it takes me back
to something that someone said to me, one of my
old bosses member Bill Francis, back in the day. Yeah,
I got myself in a bit of strife with something
came in more it was now and he goes, Darcy,
you're a very good broadcaster.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Stick to your knitting, stay in your lane, as they say,
any number of cliches. Yeah, look, it was good, good
advice from Bill Francis. He normally had good advice. And
you're still going. So let's hope that New Zealand Rugby,
you know, take whatever is the best advice here. Look,
I think you and I will talk about this a
lot more. I'm sure in Chambers' future. We've got a
(16:19):
couple of other things I want to ask you about.
I saw Jack doing dismissed from his Formula One team
el Pen. You know he collided with Liam Lawson in
Miami the other morning. We know Liam Lawson's been demoted
from red ball to racing balls. Is this just the
brutality of Formula One.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Especially with rookie drivers, young guys with no experience, and
the expectations are so incredibly high. But I wonder about
old Pen and how long they'll be there for and
even what they're even there. They're the French team. They're
not even running a Reno engine anymore. They're runing Mercedes,
So I'm like, what's irrelevance? Pierre gassly in and out,
but they're not really bothering anyone in the midfield. But
(16:58):
that's okay. They made the decision. Colopinto the guy that
they've picked up. He was running for Williams last year
when logan sergeant the American. They decided he was no
good at william so they asked him. They got Colopino
on and he proceeded to basically spend a lot of
his time stuffed in the armco. I think he had
(17:18):
I don't know how many acts aed a lot of accents,
but Williams last year cost himself ten million bucks in rebuilds.
So you could say, well, are you a car destroyer, Colobinto, because.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
That's the last thing that Alpine need. But yeah, it's.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Brutal perform or you walk, or bring a lot of
money to the team, and he canform as poorly as
you like. When you look at the guys like Lant Stroll,
whose dad owns the company, which is kind of helpful,
he's exciting Colobino, but he's quite reckless. And that brings
us back to what Liam has to do now. Yes,
(17:54):
as far as keeping his ride.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yes, because I if doing is dismissed for not scoring
a point in six races, then Liam finds himself in
a very similar position, doesn't he.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
I don't know what.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
The master planners from that. Maybe they go this is
not a points scoring car, although in Hadja they know
they might have something within. I think when you look
at Alpine as well, they've also their team principles quit
oliver Oaks. So it's in disarray right now. So that
(18:31):
uncertainty about the future can't be helping anybody's drive. What
Liam's got to do is do the things he can
do that are within his realm. He can't trust the
car not to break because we've seen that. He can't
trust other drivers not to smash into him, he can't
trust the weather.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
I'm qualifying.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
But what he can do is when he is qualifying,
get that sorted out one lap fast as he can
and then start further up the grid and it'll take
away some of those issues. So he's got he's got
to deal with what he can deal with and put
that down.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Let's look forward to seeing that have I got to
quickly comment on aucklandle f c's awards night.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
How good I talked about Bonnie Jansen joined us in
the JV yesterday and she talked all about it. Ask
me about it. It was like Alex Paulson, he's got to
be the man of the hour. He didn't run the
Grand prize though, Why did Doug Guzumo?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
May excuse me, my, I bet you get that one right, May?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
What did he win the top That's such a good
question because Alex Paulson won Players Player of the Season
and that is arguably more prestigious prize for the player themselves.
When your teammates, your colleagues, those who you go into
battle with week and week out vote you their best player.
I think that says a lot and I know a
lot of players would actually prefer that than the MVP,
(19:50):
which is often chosen by a panel made up of
the coaches, maybe others associated with the club, some of
the media. I don't know the ins and outs of
it because Youmomi, look, you can't argue is that a
terrific impact on this Auckland left c side is their
golden boot. He's played every game, as has Paulson. The
one clear omission from me, Darcy is the guy who
I think has been the best player all season and
(20:12):
didn't even get a mention, not players player, not MVP,
not members player, and that's Hiroki Sakai, their captain, who
has been by every metric I can come up with
one of the best players, not only in Auckland FC's squad,
but in the entire a league. So look, when you're
spoiled for choice, you know you've had a good season.
So congratulations to Gazumo, ma to Alex Paulson. Francis Devrees
(20:36):
was the Fans Player of the Year, another prestigious honor.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Really, there's only one honor they're all after, and the
rest of it, paiales into insignificance. We don't care who
won what gong. All the team want is that title
and that's what it all comes down to.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
One hundred percent. Yeah, good way to cap it. That's
us in the chamber for.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Today dissecting the sporting agenda.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
It's Sportsfix with Jason Pain and Darcy Waldgrave and.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
That wraps us on Sports Fix today. Thank you so
much for listening, thanks for downloading, Thanks for subscribing. And
you know we often ask you, you know, we invite you,
don't we dark to invite your friends to subscribe.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
The more the mirria, as they say.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Spread the word. I don't care how you do it.
Just spread its social media, word of mouth. Maybe you
don't spray painted on the wall of your work. That
probably wouldn't go down particularly well.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Although you know, you never know, there might be some
cut through there, Poney, there might be there might be well. Yeah,
spread the word in any way that you can end.
If you prefer the traditional type of radio where you
can interact with us, we got your cover there as well.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
We have Sports Talk seven to eight pm Monday to Friday,
News Talk zeb Piney's got the Chair on a Monday,
I'm Tuesday, WINTERO Thursday, Friday, and then Piney has the
whole studio to himself for three hours to Rob and
day to three o'clock Saturday and Sunday for week in Sport,
and he encourages you to join in his party.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
We'll see you tomorrow on the Sportspeaks podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
For more from News Talk zed B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This is Sportsfix Howard by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Hello there, and welcome into a fresh edition of the
Sportsbox Podcast. It is Thursday, May eighth.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
We're here in association with G. J.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Gardner Holmes, New Zealand's most trust at the home Builder.
My name's Jason.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Pie and the Wei is Jason Pine and myself Darcy Walmergrave.
Speaker 5 (00:36):
Great to be of service again in the sports Box Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Absolutely, we love being of service to you, and today
we can serve you up well, a dose of opinion
for the sports news and a different voice from ours.
Who's our guest this afternoon, dust in other news, Let's
get underway whether a look at some of the big
sports stories around today New Zealand right by CEO Mark
Robinson is putting their nineteen and a half million dollar
(01:02):
loss on foreign exchange losses and investment and content and
their streaming service for Box of NA opened up showing
the National body's posted total accumulated glasses of around seventy
six million dollars over the last three years.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
You always want to be an end of the profit years,
but we just have to acknowledge that if those were
part of the special effects, which is certainly something that
propped up later in the year, it was overall a
reasonable positive performance.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Are they morning in Europe for Paris Chamn.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
At Paris Shah to the final look at Champions Lee
for only.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
The second time in their history.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Their PSG have beaten Arsenal three to one on aggregate
after a two to one home win in the second
leg and a downcast reaction from Brandon Smith after admitting
he's probably played his last game for the Roosters in
the NRL, the Kiwis hooker has reportedly set for an
immediate release to rival Sydney club The Rabbit.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
O's definitely looks that way. While there's articles and conversations
I'm having.
Speaker 7 (02:04):
Everything I've read so far doesn't seem like I'm very wanted.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, Robert and me just before well, there's a good
conversation like it as nicely as I may.
Speaker 7 (02:13):
We're just trying to save some money.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Use and a vinyon It's Sportsfix with Jason Hine and
Dussy Waldegrave.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
And the pressure starts to be applied come Saturday, when
the defending world champions, the Black Ferns take on Australia
the first game of two for the Lore O'Reilly Trophy.
This is the start of their Pack four tournament and
where they take on Canada and the USA as well.
They will have a warm up match, maybe a possible's
(02:45):
probables match. I suppose you'd call it up against the
Black Fern fifteens.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
But besides that, there's not a great deal for the Black.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Ferns to do test match wise ahead of the upcoming
World Cup. Two ways of looking at this, will the
team be wildly underdone when it comes to working in
their new players, working in their new ideals, their concepts,
their attack, the defense plans or will like with the
(03:17):
All Blacks in a World Cup year, be a good thing.
The All Blacks are never severely tested when it comes
to frequency of matches during a World Cup year, so
why should it be any different for the Black Ferns.
Saturday's match should be a lot of fun. The game
against Canada may be a tad on the stressful side.
(03:37):
The USA, I don't know. Against the Black Ferns fifteen though,
the second string team if you will, that offers so much,
I believe for the game of rugby will heart back
to the old days of possibles, probables, Black v White.
Back when I was a lad, it was an all
black trial. We enjoyed those matches, they had so much
(04:00):
on them. Northeast South even which we've tried again. But
the probable possibles to me, could be the best in
engagement for the Black Ferns this year before they go
and try and defend their title at the Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
If they do, it'll be a victory for the Ages.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
And there is debate around whether they go an attempt
to win the Rugby World Cup again or defend the
Rugby World Cup. It's all semantics. The path they take
is irrelevant. So long as they achieve the ultimate prize
and are crowned Women's Rugby World Champions.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
We've got just the ticket. It's Sports Vex.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
We'll join now on Effects by Gregor, Paul and Zell
and the Herald Senior Rugby writer. As we look at
the last and we look at the games good days
here Gregor, Oh Darcy, crazy story today or crazy story
in the fact that they may have lost nineteen and
a half million dollars, but they did bill for two
to eighty five million dollars, So it's a good news
(05:07):
and a bad news story, right, Well, no.
Speaker 7 (05:10):
It's a bad news story, you know.
Speaker 8 (05:14):
Like the fact that they made or generated two hundred
and eighty five million dollars of revenue is being overplayed
as a source of good news in my view.
Speaker 7 (05:25):
Look, that's that is a good figure, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 8 (05:28):
However, we've got to go and contrast and compare it
with previous numbers, pre silver Lake, New Zealand Rugby's equity
partner coming into the business in twenty twenty two. Because
the reason that they came in and we're given the
chance to invest, was because they were going to make
these transformational shifts in revenue.
Speaker 7 (05:49):
So we were sold this.
Speaker 8 (05:50):
Idea that revenue would climb in excess of I think
the initial forecast had revenue way in excess to three
hundred million by twenty twenty four, and it was two
hundred and eighty five, which is only I think off
the top of my.
Speaker 7 (06:04):
Head, I can't remember now.
Speaker 8 (06:05):
I think it's about twelve percent increase on last But
when you look at where that increase came from, the
majority of it actually came from interest payments that New
Zealand Rugby received as a result of having Silver Lakes
money in the back. So the biggest growth of revenue
(06:27):
was interest. Now that's not a great story when you
get down to it, and that is not fitting in
with a picture that we were sold three years ago.
So I don't think it's good news bad news. I
think it's bad news, bad news.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Extrapolate this as far as Silver Lakes engagement, what they
actually bring, what they've done, if anything, What do we
learn about their involvement in this through these results.
Speaker 8 (06:52):
Well, I'll make this answer very short. The answer to
what have they brought? Nothing?
Speaker 7 (06:57):
You know, that's the sad part here.
Speaker 8 (06:59):
This was the warning that people like me and a
few others who weren't seduced by private equities sales pitch
always said was that they don't bring capability. They're not
rugby people per se. They don't have a magic wand
they don't actually have the answers to.
Speaker 7 (07:18):
The problems that New Zealand Rugby thinks that it has.
Speaker 8 (07:22):
And if you look at it, you go, well, okay.
The revenue model that New Zealand Rugby presented today is
no different to the one that they've been following for
the last thirty years of professionalism. So they made their
money out of selling METEA RTEs, sponsorships and match day revenues,
which is what they've been doing forever. They played a
(07:43):
few games offshore and then the USA and Japan last year,
but they've been doing that for the last ten or
fifteen years as well. So there's nothing new in what
silver Lake have brought to the table. They haven't changed
anything except for the fact that they've parked money in
New Zealand's bank account. But of course, as much as
you know New Zealand's benefiting from that, they also have
(08:05):
to pay interest on that loan. So we're in a
sort of truly ridiculous position when you Zealand banks twelve
million in interest or fourteen million in interest, but has
to pay twelve million back in interest to silver Leak.
And I am honestly thinking if an eight year old
came up with us as a financial model in a
primary school project, you would smile nicely and try and
(08:28):
redirect them into coming up with a better idea.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Talking about silver Lake Back in the day when this occurred,
do I distinct they're a member saying, hey, this is Shakespeare,
this is Merchant to Venice, and Silverlake are Shylock, and
they will get their pound of flesh. Don't you worry.
They're in this for money, They're not in this for
the goodness of rugby. And you talked about people are
being seduced by that concept and it did work, which
(08:53):
brings me to my next point around this. When you
look at their NZR plus, which is probably part of
this brave new world of silver Lake, which appears to
have not made a great deal of money, if any, it's.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
Costing them a fortune. How long is their piece of rope?
Speaker 4 (09:10):
How long before a group that are a rugby organization
who really should stick to rugby, stick to the admitting
realize they're not broadcasters, they can't make content, and maybe
their upcoming agreement with Sky has to work along that track.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
They're spreading themselves to things is not what they do, right.
Speaker 7 (09:31):
Oh, I couldn't agree with you more, Darcy. That's absolutely right.
It is a staggering amount of money.
Speaker 8 (09:37):
And for people like you and I either work in
the media industry, I'm not being facetious.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
I'm being absolutely genuine.
Speaker 8 (09:45):
When you start to think about twelve million dollars got
invested in nz our plus last year. Now you start
to think what twelve million dollars would feel like coming
into the Herald's newsroom or zb's.
Speaker 7 (09:58):
Newsroom, and what you've been able to do with that money.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
Because we're currently living in an existential crisis as media people,
and you look at that angle, Wow, if we had
that amount of money, results could be extraordinary with what
we could do. And then you look at New Zealand
Rugby and go to your point, they're not they're not
broadcast people.
Speaker 7 (10:15):
So they look at so they've got execs who.
Speaker 8 (10:17):
Have got literally no idea what they are talking about
in the space in my view, and they say things, oh,
we've got you know, one billion views on YouTube, and
I go, whoo, pretty do you've probably got you can
put an all black Hakker video and maybe a best
of highlight highlights package and I guarantee you you'd probably
get similar results. When we've got social media influencers who
(10:41):
on you know, around the world, people going off to
restaurants and tourism landmarks and they produce TikTok videos and
these guys are probably spending low hundreds of thousands on
their content production and driving millions of dollars back and
winning literally tens of millions of followers. So you start
comparing and contrasting, you know, how you build an audience
(11:05):
with the with the budget that they've put at this
and there's no way can you tell me that this
is a good return on investment. And to your point,
how long can they keep going? Not one more day?
If I'm the New Zealand Rugby board, I think you've
got to slash that budget by at least ten million
and say here's two million dollars and even that is
(11:26):
wildly generous for an organization that simply doesn't know what
it's doing.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
The chamber is now in session on sports Vex.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Let us stop hop into the chamber where we're in
the chamber. Let to start talking in the chamber and
see if we can make some sense of New Zealand
Rugby's nineteen and a half million dollar loss for last year. Now,
since Silver eight came on board as an equity partner
in mid twenty twenty two, New Zealand Rugbies posted total
accumulated losses of around seventy six million dollars over three years.
(11:56):
They are, however, trumpeting record income of two hundred and
eighty five million. I guess when you talk about numbers,
they always say you look at the bottom line first.
A third great loss, Darcy. I mean on the field,
three losses ain't great financially, three losses. It doesn't sound
great to me.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
No, it doesn't. But remember a couple of years ago
the size of the loss it was enormous. I thought
it was going to sink inst out. What was it,
forty plus million dollars. So there has been improvements. So
you look at areas where it's been improved. I think
the big thing you look at, and this is all
about what happens with NZR plus and the amount of
(12:37):
money they're investing into that, where the returns are, how
long it actually lasts. What are the expectations around content
from the fan base? Remember silver Out, They're right, they
want to tap into the global fan base. They want
to tap into the unknown, all black fans out there.
This is one of the ways they can do it.
They might be seeking guessing that, but how long would
(12:58):
you give it, Jason, to keep working this until it
actually turns a profit or that keeps I suppose dribbling money.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
They probably best to.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
It can't be a money pit, You're right to us.
It cannot be a black hole that they just keep
pouring money into without getting any return back on it.
I mean that's basic economics, isn't it. That if your
outgoings continue to exceed your incomings, then something has to change.
And some would say that, you know, when you make
(13:29):
three straight losses, you maybe need to cut your cloth
to sit a little bit more. You run a household income,
presumably I run a household income. If your outgoings are
more than what you got coming in, then you need
to make some changes. That's deviating away from what you've
asked me. I like the idea of NZR plus, I
really do, and I want to. I want people to
(13:49):
get on there and engage with the all blacks. But
I just wonder what kind of content is going to
do that for them if it's not live rugby matches,
and it doesn't seem as though that is in the
short term plan anyway.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Oh, you know, lots of live games and warm props
a bums on seats, but not in you zel be
all over the world.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
That's maybe where it might be.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
What I'm fascinated is the relationship between Sky Television and
end z are. Because they're negotiating for rights, they think
the rights are going to be diminished somewhat the cost.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
It's not worth as much. But then you look at
ends are plus.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
And think, well, you're kind of fighting against Sky who
you want to be a broadcast partner. So how does
that unfold in time? Do they just go Okay, you're
a profession of the space, will let you do it?
And is there a negotiation point there for ongoing broadcast rights?
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Just here, I'm going there.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I do. I totally saw you're going there. And look,
New Zealand Rugby are not a broadcast business. They are
a rugby business and that's why they you know, they
sell the rights to broadcast their top ash on on
of matches, you know, the teams in Black, Super Rugby
in PC and Fara Palmer Cup, all of those petitions
(15:08):
because they are not a broadcaster. If they are going
to broadcast or sorry, if they're going to produce these
matches in the house, that just opens up an entirely
new cost center for them. Yes, they don't have to
they you know, they don't have the and they don't
have the income from Sky, but they can sell direct
to consumer. They would just have to be absolutely certain
(15:30):
that everybody who buys Sky for the Rugby would give
New Zealand Rugby the money if it was them who
was providing it. If I made sense there.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
Yeah, it's so convoluted, this whole situation.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I think you make the great point around inst a
Rugby out they're not broadcasters. And it takes me back
to something that someone said to me, one of my
old bosses member Bill Francis, back in the day. Yeah,
I got myself in a bit of strife with something
came in more it was now and he goes, Darcy,
you're a very good broadcaster.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Stick to your knitting, stay in your lane, as they say,
any number of cliches. Yeah, look, it was good, good
advice from Bill Francis. He normally had good advice. And
you're still going. So let's hope that New Zealand Rugby,
you know, take whatever is the best advice here. Look,
I think you and I will talk about this a
lot more. I'm sure in Chambers' future. We've got a
(16:19):
couple of other things I want to ask you about.
I saw Jack doing dismissed from his Formula One team
el Pen. You know he collided with Liam Lawson in
Miami the other morning. We know Liam Lawson's been demoted
from red ball to racing balls. Is this just the
brutality of Formula One.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Especially with rookie drivers, young guys with no experience, and
the expectations are so incredibly high. But I wonder about
old Pen and how long they'll be there for and
even what they're even there. They're the French team. They're
not even running a Reno engine anymore. They're runing Mercedes,
So I'm like, what's irrelevance? Pierre gassly in and out,
but they're not really bothering anyone in the midfield. But
(16:58):
that's okay. They made the decision. Colopinto the guy that
they've picked up. He was running for Williams last year
when logan sergeant the American. They decided he was no
good at william so they asked him. They got Colopino
on and he proceeded to basically spend a lot of
his time stuffed in the armco. I think he had
(17:18):
I don't know how many acts aed a lot of accents,
but Williams last year cost himself ten million bucks in rebuilds.
So you could say, well, are you a car destroyer, Colobinto, because.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
That's the last thing that Alpine need. But yeah, it's.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Brutal perform or you walk, or bring a lot of
money to the team, and he canform as poorly as
you like. When you look at the guys like Lant Stroll,
whose dad owns the company, which is kind of helpful,
he's exciting Colobino, but he's quite reckless. And that brings
us back to what Liam has to do now. Yes,
(17:54):
as far as keeping his ride.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yes, because I if doing is dismissed for not scoring
a point in six races, then Liam finds himself in
a very similar position, doesn't he.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
I don't know what.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
The master planners from that. Maybe they go this is
not a points scoring car, although in Hadja they know
they might have something within. I think when you look
at Alpine as well, they've also their team principles quit
oliver Oaks. So it's in disarray right now. So that
(18:31):
uncertainty about the future can't be helping anybody's drive. What
Liam's got to do is do the things he can
do that are within his realm. He can't trust the
car not to break because we've seen that. He can't
trust other drivers not to smash into him, he can't
trust the weather.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
I'm qualifying.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
But what he can do is when he is qualifying,
get that sorted out one lap fast as he can
and then start further up the grid and it'll take
away some of those issues. So he's got he's got
to deal with what he can deal with and put
that down.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Let's look forward to seeing that have I got to
quickly comment on aucklandle f c's awards night.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
How good I talked about Bonnie Jansen joined us in
the JV yesterday and she talked all about it. Ask
me about it. It was like Alex Paulson, he's got to
be the man of the hour. He didn't run the
Grand prize though, Why did Doug Guzumo?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
May excuse me, my, I bet you get that one right, May?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
What did he win the top That's such a good
question because Alex Paulson won Players Player of the Season
and that is arguably more prestigious prize for the player themselves.
When your teammates, your colleagues, those who you go into
battle with week and week out vote you their best player.
I think that says a lot and I know a
lot of players would actually prefer that than the MVP,
(19:50):
which is often chosen by a panel made up of
the coaches, maybe others associated with the club, some of
the media. I don't know the ins and outs of
it because Youmomi, look, you can't argue is that a
terrific impact on this Auckland left c side is their
golden boot. He's played every game, as has Paulson. The
one clear omission from me, Darcy is the guy who
I think has been the best player all season and
(20:12):
didn't even get a mention, not players player, not MVP,
not members player, and that's Hiroki Sakai, their captain, who
has been by every metric I can come up with
one of the best players, not only in Auckland FC's squad,
but in the entire a league. So look, when you're
spoiled for choice, you know you've had a good season.
So congratulations to Gazumo, ma to Alex Paulson. Francis Devrees
(20:36):
was the Fans Player of the Year, another prestigious honor.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Really, there's only one honor they're all after, and the
rest of it, paiales into insignificance. We don't care who
won what gong. All the team want is that title
and that's what it all comes down to.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
One hundred percent. Yeah, good way to cap it. That's
us in the chamber for.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Today dissecting the sporting agenda.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
It's Sportsfix with Jason Pain and Darcy Waldgrave and.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
That wraps us on Sports Fix today. Thank you so
much for listening, thanks for downloading, Thanks for subscribing. And
you know we often ask you, you know, we invite you,
don't we dark to invite your friends to subscribe.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
The more the mirria, as they say.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Spread the word. I don't care how you do it.
Just spread its social media, word of mouth. Maybe you
don't spray painted on the wall of your work. That
probably wouldn't go down particularly well.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Although you know, you never know, there might be some
cut through there, Poney, there might be there might be well. Yeah,
spread the word in any way that you can end.
If you prefer the traditional type of radio where you
can interact with us, we got your cover there as well.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
We have Sports Talk seven to eight pm Monday to Friday,
News Talk zeb Piney's got the Chair on a Monday,
I'm Tuesday, WINTERO Thursday, Friday, and then Piney has the
whole studio to himself for three hours to Rob and
day to three o'clock Saturday and Sunday for week in Sport,
and he encourages you to join in his party.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
We'll see you tomorrow on the Sportspeaks podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
For more from News Talk zed B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.