July 24, 2025 • 20 mins
On Sports Fix with Jason Pine and D'Arcy Waldegrave for the 24th of July 2025, the Government have taken away guidelines on transgender participation, leaving it to the sporting bodies to make the decisions on how they approach it. NZ Rugby Participation Development Manager Mike Hester joined the podcast to discuss what this means for NZR.
D'Arcy offers New Zealand Hockey praise for sticking to their guns.
And D'Arcy and Piney reunite in the Chamber to discuss who the All Blacks should be extending next.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
This is Sportsfix Howard by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello there and welcome into the Sports fixbook.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
It's been so long you're still here.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I am. I only got about seven words into the
intro before you jumped in, but it it's great to
have you back, to Arcie. It's it's been a gaff
I must say in my weeks, the last three or four.
It is wonderful to have you back. Just before we
carry on, JJ Gardner Holmes have not left. They still
look after us on Sports Fixed, New Zealand's most trusted
home builder. How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I'm happy as a clam. It's wonderful what three weeks
off does for your headspace in any job, in any operation.
Just a clear ears and go right. This is what
I do. Come back full of enthusiasm. Thoughts coming up
over the next five or six months till Christmas.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Here Absolutely well, there's plenty a sport to talk and
we'll do it on the Sports Fixed podcast. We'll kick
around a couple of things in the chamber. I note
that Fletcher and you'll re signed with New Zealand Rugby today.
There are still for being yeah quite he has a
beast are quite size of all list though of players
who are not yet committed beyond the end of twenty
twenty six. So who should the priorities be as far
as resigning those players through until the next World Cup
(01:28):
is concerned. Some news on Max for staff and as
well the latest in sports news as far as an
interview on Sports Fix today.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Who are hearing from talking to Mike Hester, he's the
head of participation friends that are at a community level
about the new well lack of edicts handed down by
Sporting z the government said transgender We're not going to
provide you any information, do it yourself. Pretty much in
a nutshell. So what New Zealand Rugby are doing in
that space and what this has done, how this has
(01:55):
affected what they're trying to do with the transgender communities
and Mike Caster joins.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Us interesting topics, so lots to cover, let's get into it.
In other news, Let's kick things off with some of
the big sports or is around today. All Blacks propflection
Yule has re signed with New Zealand Rugby and the
Crusaders until the end of the twenty twenty eight calendar years.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
The team I grew up watching for a young kid
played rugby since some as I can remember, and you
come to the games and I was, are we one?
And just the excitement around the team and just yeah,
love this team and wouldn't want to be if anyone else.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Staying in christ Church concerns from Tactics Netball coach Donna
Wilkins over uncertaintly surrounding the future of Netble's A and
Z Premiership. The domestic cop is confirmed to return next year,
but without a broadcast deal yet.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
I'm hoping that they're doing the work behind the scenes
and that's all we can trust that they are to
produce something for these players because we need and even
the NNL Mainland won that we want to look after
those athletes as well and nurture them through into this environment.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
And Spain a throw to the final of the Women's
Euros to face England on Monday morning in Bazil. After
their superstar Ititana bon Muddy scored their winning goal against
Germany an extra time in Zurich.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
It's it got muchy clever across a race cards vote
of the world's class class aments a real quality product.
Get Spain the lead.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
We're just over seven minutes ago.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Using a villion It's Sports Fix with Jason Pine and
Dusty Watergrave.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
And it's warm. Welcome now to Mike Hester from n Z.
He's the head of participation at a community level. Mike,
welcome to the podcast. I take it you're well good.
Thanks news today that the government have said, Wow, we're
really not worried about guidelines anymore. We're going to pull
them sport and you said to pull them off their
(03:49):
website open Slavo. What effect does this have on the
Rugby community first and foremost, and this is from the
junior levels right the way through to when suddenly they
advanced to the next level.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
So transiender participation has been on our sort of agenda
for a few years now to provide a bit of clarity,
and we have direction from Will Rugby about what that
looks like in the poor performance and pathway space, and
so we need sort of acknowledge and respect position there
around how transgender people participate. But what's been left for
(04:21):
countries like Design to resolve in the community space is
what does that look like?
Speaker 7 (04:24):
In terms of.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
Participation approach, and so that's what we've been working through
over the.
Speaker 7 (04:30):
Last couple of years.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Guide to buy our values, but also guided by.
Speaker 7 (04:34):
The voices of our community.
Speaker 6 (04:35):
So we've done a one wave of consultation and we've
got a second one to go over the next sort
of six months or so.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Is it helpful do you think negative or positive? Maybe
around the government pulling these guidelines, taking off the website
and saying individual sports can do it themselves. Is this
a good move for you or not?
Speaker 6 (04:53):
So as a general rule, sportings, he provides lots of
really helpful advice and guidance to the sector around a
whole range of things, and so certainly the advice that
they've provided in this area, like others, has been really helpful.
It's been informative, it's highlighted things that we need to
think about are particularly in different segments you use, for
example in juniors is where you know there's really complex
(05:14):
things happening in that space. So any advice or guidance
that they can give is really helpful. They obviously can't
answer everything, and they also have to respect what's asked
of them to support. So the short answer is that
we were a resource sport and we have a capability
and capacity to make these decisions that will go forward
(05:34):
that might ectually more challenging for others perhaps who don't
necessarily have all those resources.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
They weren't directives though, were they. It wasn't you must
do this, It was just based on suggestion. So taking
the suggestions away, was there actually even any point in
doing that? If people had their own decisions to make
and they could handle it themselves, Surely a bit of
guidance from upstairs the information they've gleaned would not be
(05:58):
a bad thing. I appreciate what they're doing, but to
take all the guidelines away that weren't mandatable guidelines is odd.
Speaker 6 (06:06):
Yeah, And we certainly know from sort of a whole
bunch of different situations that that kind of guidance that
comes across the sector is really helpful, and so I'm
sure other sports would have really appreciated all the.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
Sport that it's been coming down from sportings.
Speaker 6 (06:20):
Yet a whole bunch of areas, if we go back
to COVID, they provided some hugely valuable sort of interpretation
frameworks of which you are really important to rugby, but
for other smallest sort of nesos really really important to
help interpret things. So potentially this would be an area
where others might feel it more so than Rugby.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
So with transgender participation, you said you've you've made moves
in that space and be doing it for a few years. Now,
what are the big steps that you've made, the decisions
that you've made, what's faced you, what's been in the
way or helped you out with this? What are the
issues around transgender participation in a community level Mike.
Speaker 6 (07:00):
So the first one is is there a need for
a policy in the space because it's easy to regulate everything,
but sometimes regulation and doesn't actually help what makes actually
life harder for people on the ground. And we think
about how our community game is delivered. It's delivered by
tens of thousands of volunteers. There's one hundred and twenty
hundred and thirty thousand people sort of accessing the game
(07:22):
through clubs and schools, and so it has to be
something that makes sense and is realistic in terms of
what's important to Rugby, our values around inclusion, our values
around the game for all shapes and sizes. It's a
game that's played by a wide range of our community European, Maori,
(07:42):
pacifica Asian, what are their sort of expectations and values
that they want.
Speaker 7 (07:46):
To see reflected in the game that they play.
Speaker 6 (07:49):
And also that important lens of safety in terms of
how do we ensure that across all of all levels
of the game we are providing a safe experience. Albeit
we're a contact sport and we're also a sport where
physical mismatches is actually part of its essence being bigg
as an advantage in some ways being smallers and advantages
(08:10):
and others.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
So when you look at the brushstrokes for the decisions
made around transgender playing of the game, are you're saying
you look to the community, but you've got a number
of different facets of that community. As you mentioned, how
much does their input sway your decisions around what you
do and is it isolated their own community they can
(08:34):
make their own call at that level, do they sit
under umbrella from NZR about what you think is best
for the sport?
Speaker 7 (08:43):
So it's usually a mix of both.
Speaker 6 (08:45):
In terms of our job is to provide leadership and
sort of the regulations around how the game should be
administered and delivered across the country, but it also needs
to be value by communities in a way that means
their needs, so that the community voice is really important.
We've run a series of workshops around what might be
(09:06):
topical for people in this space. Not surprisingly, we've had
really positive and strong engagement from those that are invested
in the girls and women's game around this issue. And
the themes that came through from those workshops where that
they really valued inclusion. They wanted to see people being included.
They didn't like the idea of people being excluded, but
they also wanted it to obviously be a safe environment,
(09:29):
and so they are the themes they came through really strongly.
Themes that weren't so strong were those around sort of
fairness because the reality is in the community space that's
a little bit harder to really deliver and to judge
because it's community sport, you play for a bunch of
different reasons other than necessarily the competition aspect of it.
(09:52):
In terms of the Rainbow community, we've engaged with them
around their views, particularly those that are engaged in the
game now or those that want to excess the game.
What they asked for was we're just real clarity, So
there was no surprises for them about how they could
be involved.
Speaker 7 (10:06):
And so they're the sort of themes that have been.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
Really strong and the sort of first wave for consultation
which we're now taken back and trying to work out, right,
what is a regulation that services that all of those
needs but also can be delivered on the grass as
it is a community game and it's delivered by tens
of thousands of volunteers.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Sportsfax Bravo New Zealand Hockey Keen Mableston and all of
his band of merry men and women who run the
game here in New Zealand have fought the fourth time
turned around and said that the fih, no, we're not
going to play in your top league. We're not going
to play in the pro league. It's happened twice with
(10:46):
the women's side, it's happened now twice with the men's side.
They have one key competitions they've got to the top
tier in the world of hockey and decided respectfully that yeah, nah,
they can't afford it. This is a very pragmatic decision
from New Zealand Hockey. It's a sensible decision. It's one
(11:07):
that you understand and when you look at what's happened
to New Zealand hockey over the years. They took an
absolute tweling at the hands of Sport New Zealand or
whoever issues the funds that they require to keep their
sport going at one point seven million dollars I think
it was they've got no money. Look, they can afford
(11:27):
to take our best New Zealand talent to the Pro League.
They can afford to do that. But if they spend
their money on taking their top teams to Europe, they've
got no money to spend on anything else. Nothing. The
grassroots fall apart, local hockey falls apart, and they simply
cannot do that. They've got to look at what the
(11:49):
FIH are doing with the Pro League, and basically it
is a league for European teams. New Zealand were to
play in that top level, they would sink their own
financial boat with flights and hotels. They wouldn't get any
home games, so all of their sponsors would be left
high and dry, and you destroy the players flying back
(12:12):
and forth from New Zealand over to Europe. For what
what makes it even worse is that when it comes
to smaller tours to other top level teams. None of
the other teams can afford it either, because they have
been rung dry by the FA eight to carry on
with this ridiculous pro league. You've got to admire New
(12:35):
Zealand Hockey for standing up and saying we can't afford it.
It is bad for our program. You guys need to
change and take some respect to the hockey playing countries
outside of Europe. Bravo, bravo, well done. You stick to
your guns.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
The Chamber is now in session on Sportsfax.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Into the Chamber we go. Let's start with rugby. Fletcher'll,
as mentioned previously, has re signed with New Zealand Rugby
Dars until twenty twenty eight. So there are a few
players and I've sent you a list so we're both
on the same page of those not signed yet beyond
the end of twenty twenty six, I meaning, of course,
that they're not signed for the next World Cup. You've
(13:18):
had a look at the list. Who are the priorities
for you?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
This is a hard one for me because I like
to look at the flask guys and the outsides and
the fun and games. But I think priority is always
going to be in the pack, is it not? Because
that's absolutely that's what you base successful rugby players on,
and I think you talk about the players that haven't
been picked yet, which is all well and good, But
(13:43):
just before we go into that, I'd like to celebrate
the fact that they've managed to sign a number of
sharp as players for a long time after the World Cup.
So that feels with encouragement that people still want to
play and be there and insine are making the right moves,
if you will. This is a great thing. So many
good players that are going to be staying. I haven't
(14:03):
really thought about who's not signed yet, So this is
a great topic that you've brought up.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, just on the list that you've just alluded to,
there here are the players beyond twenty twenty seven. Fletcherniulas mentioned,
Anton Lennott Brown, George Bell, Patrick Tuipolotto, the Man Mountain
that is, Fabian Holland, Sam Dowry, Passilio Toossi, A, Safwan Moure,
Reuben Love, Jordi Barrett and Damien McKenzie all signed past
the World Cup for at least another year and in
the case of d mac until the end of twenty
(14:30):
twenty nine. So forward planning is looking good. I just
look at that. I look at that list though, of
those who aren't re signed, and you talked about the forwards,
Tyrel Lomax only signed until the end of next year,
Big Offer, Alma Fussy only signed until the end of
next year. Summer Penny Female Ethan Blackadder in the same boat.
Are these the kind of guys who conversations need to
(14:51):
be had with?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Well, I think that an Offer's case is coming to
the end of a fantastic career, so I don't think
even though they can play both sides, people are going
to freak out too much if they don't sign him
on the dot a loan for a while. Sevu Reese
obviously in the back line, similar kind of situation. Hoskins
two to hasn't been given great deal of love from
Scott Robinson. Has he he's there or thereabouts. I hold
(15:15):
me surprised if he went. But the amount of looses
that we've gotten, we've seen this, it's not a problem.
But we've seen how good our loose forwards are so
far up against the French, and that will be well
tested in the championship. But we have got a lot
of bodies on the ground in that space now some
opening female as a player for the future Ethan blackad
it desperately unlucky, But there are two players I'd really
(15:37):
like to see a stick around a trol LNEX obviously
very important. So out of the ones that you've listed,
I'd run with. Those three are very important. The rest
maybe not. So.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
I think you've landed on actually a secondary topic here,
which is probably the more important topic, and that's those
who have signed. Like I say, I just read out
a dozen names before of those signed beyond the World Cup,
I'm not going to read them all out, but there
are seventeen or eighteen signed up until beyond the World
Cup or including the twenty twenty seven World Cup. So
we have to hand it to Chris Landrum and this team,
(16:07):
don't we in terms of future proofing the All Blacks
for the next World Cup?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yes we do, and maybe not enough has been made
about that. And I know I bar on about the
sabbatical and the foolishness of blah blah blah. It doesn't matter.
If they were saying he he's gonna stick around for
another few years and he's got a sabbatical, and they don't,
it'd be more important they said, well, we haven't given
him a sabbatical. That'll be of more interest, I think.
But behind all that, they're working really hard to keep
(16:34):
the best players here in New Zealand, which is a
very tough thing to do.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So they should be commended, indeed they should. All right,
let's go to formula one, talking of retaining or not people.
I noticed that the private jets and private yachts of
both Max for staff. This is the other half living.
Of course, does Max for Stappen and Toto Wolf Mercedes
team principle Their private jets and yachts just happened to
be in the same Sardinian location. Recently tongues have been
(17:01):
wagging about the staff and to Mercedes. But now Toto
Wolf's come out and said, no, my drivers next year
are the current guys, George Russell and Kimmi Antonelli. So
does this mean Max for Stappin stays pot at Red Bull.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
The key thing here is Christian Horner. Absolute key thing
here is Christian Horner. Christian Horner is gone and it
came pretty much from nowhere and well there were rumors,
but he's gone, which means that paves the way for
the Stappen to stay.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Do they had not like each other, these two.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
That's his dad, Jospher Stapping.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Now, Christian, I thought you were suggesting that Christian Horner
was Max for Steppin's father. I was trying to put
two or two together. There's this like Darth Vader and
Luke Skywalker.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
What I can gather back in the day when Max
z Stappin came up from ty Rosso racing balls that
is now that was blocked by Christian Horner, but the
brass at Red Bull overturned that, and Josopher Stappins never
never forgiven Christian Horner for doing that. So the fact
that Horner disappeared like that in the two weeks between
(18:07):
Graham pre would suggest that Red Bull trying everything they
possibly can to make sure Max first stepping doesn't go anywhere.
More to that, I don't see Totteo Wolf making a
decision like that. Doesn't seem very mercedes to me. That
they get rid of George Russell, that they get rid
of Kimmy Antonelli, to make way for the Stappin'. But
(18:30):
it's all rumor at the moment. But you said on
that and say, I think Max is staying although they've
got a completely different supplier because they're losing Honda and
they've got Ford turning up to help build their new engine.
So what does that mean for the team. Would that
still encourage Max to want to stay and develop this
new car? And if he does leave, well they're going
to need a new a new number one driver and
(18:53):
that would be George Russell. So and at the end
of it, Mickey's is running the whole show now and
he's a mate of Liam Lawson, but he loves him anyway,
so that's good for us, right, Am I making any
sense here? Mate?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I'm just so pleased that you're here. I'm so pleased
that you're here unpacked for me in such detail, and
your expertise and Formula one is one of the reasons
I keep you on in the chamber, not that I'm
in charge of it, of course, but it's good to
have you to unpack these Formula one and motorsport issues
for us on the regular base out there.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Right Alex Powell, who writes some great stuff for New
Zealand Herod are using the show and the podcast. He's
a Formula one head as well, so it's really nice
to sit around and discuss the variables of someone else
who understands the vagaries of motorsports. So it's always it
takes a village to raise a child.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Right as it does many more storylines that come out
of their one. That's us in the chamber.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
Today dissecting the sporting agenda.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's Sportsfix with Jason Pain and Darcy Waldgrave.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
And that brings to an end the reuniting of the
two of us in the Sports Fix podcast. It's been
a great pleasure having you listening, and thank you for downloading,
Thank you for subscribing. A fresh episode will drop into
your podcast feed around about the same time tomorrow and
every weekday. If in fact you.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Are a subscriber to the Sportsboks podcast, be a subscriber,
Tell your friends and your family to do exactly the
same thing. And if you want to join in with
sports Talk, sports Talk as I'm not news Talks, heb
between seven and eight pm Monday and Friday. Piney's got
the Monday gig, I'm Tuesday through Friday, and then of
course the whole shooting match is all up to you.
Jason Pine with Weekend Sport between twelve midday and three
(20:30):
o'clock Saturday and Sunday. You know Reunit, remember that song
from what was at the eighty Reunite.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
You are the herb. You are the herb to my peach.
You are the herb to my peaches.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
And herb because I was going to say peaches and cream,
but that's not quite the right direction. We need to
go out.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Let's all together, look, let's snog it on the head.
See you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iart Radio.
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
This is Sportsfix Howard by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello there and welcome into the Sports fixbook.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
It's been so long you're still here.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I am. I only got about seven words into the
intro before you jumped in, but it it's great to
have you back, to Arcie. It's it's been a gaff
I must say in my weeks, the last three or four.
It is wonderful to have you back. Just before we
carry on, JJ Gardner Holmes have not left. They still
look after us on Sports Fixed, New Zealand's most trusted
home builder. How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I'm happy as a clam. It's wonderful what three weeks
off does for your headspace in any job, in any operation.
Just a clear ears and go right. This is what
I do. Come back full of enthusiasm. Thoughts coming up
over the next five or six months till Christmas.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Here Absolutely well, there's plenty a sport to talk and
we'll do it on the Sports Fixed podcast. We'll kick
around a couple of things in the chamber. I note
that Fletcher and you'll re signed with New Zealand Rugby today.
There are still for being yeah quite he has a
beast are quite size of all list though of players
who are not yet committed beyond the end of twenty
twenty six. So who should the priorities be as far
as resigning those players through until the next World Cup
(01:28):
is concerned. Some news on Max for staff and as
well the latest in sports news as far as an
interview on Sports Fix today.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Who are hearing from talking to Mike Hester, he's the
head of participation friends that are at a community level
about the new well lack of edicts handed down by
Sporting z the government said transgender We're not going to
provide you any information, do it yourself. Pretty much in
a nutshell. So what New Zealand Rugby are doing in
that space and what this has done, how this has
(01:55):
affected what they're trying to do with the transgender communities
and Mike Caster joins.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Us interesting topics, so lots to cover, let's get into it.
In other news, Let's kick things off with some of
the big sports or is around today. All Blacks propflection
Yule has re signed with New Zealand Rugby and the
Crusaders until the end of the twenty twenty eight calendar years.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
The team I grew up watching for a young kid
played rugby since some as I can remember, and you
come to the games and I was, are we one?
And just the excitement around the team and just yeah,
love this team and wouldn't want to be if anyone else.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Staying in christ Church concerns from Tactics Netball coach Donna
Wilkins over uncertaintly surrounding the future of Netble's A and
Z Premiership. The domestic cop is confirmed to return next year,
but without a broadcast deal yet.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
I'm hoping that they're doing the work behind the scenes
and that's all we can trust that they are to
produce something for these players because we need and even
the NNL Mainland won that we want to look after
those athletes as well and nurture them through into this environment.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
And Spain a throw to the final of the Women's
Euros to face England on Monday morning in Bazil. After
their superstar Ititana bon Muddy scored their winning goal against
Germany an extra time in Zurich.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
It's it got muchy clever across a race cards vote
of the world's class class aments a real quality product.
Get Spain the lead.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
We're just over seven minutes ago.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Using a villion It's Sports Fix with Jason Pine and
Dusty Watergrave.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
And it's warm. Welcome now to Mike Hester from n Z.
He's the head of participation at a community level. Mike,
welcome to the podcast. I take it you're well good.
Thanks news today that the government have said, Wow, we're
really not worried about guidelines anymore. We're going to pull
them sport and you said to pull them off their
(03:49):
website open Slavo. What effect does this have on the
Rugby community first and foremost, and this is from the
junior levels right the way through to when suddenly they
advanced to the next level.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
So transiender participation has been on our sort of agenda
for a few years now to provide a bit of clarity,
and we have direction from Will Rugby about what that
looks like in the poor performance and pathway space, and
so we need sort of acknowledge and respect position there
around how transgender people participate. But what's been left for
(04:21):
countries like Design to resolve in the community space is
what does that look like?
Speaker 7 (04:24):
In terms of.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
Participation approach, and so that's what we've been working through
over the.
Speaker 7 (04:30):
Last couple of years.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Guide to buy our values, but also guided by.
Speaker 7 (04:34):
The voices of our community.
Speaker 6 (04:35):
So we've done a one wave of consultation and we've
got a second one to go over the next sort
of six months or so.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Is it helpful do you think negative or positive? Maybe
around the government pulling these guidelines, taking off the website
and saying individual sports can do it themselves. Is this
a good move for you or not?
Speaker 6 (04:53):
So as a general rule, sportings, he provides lots of
really helpful advice and guidance to the sector around a
whole range of things, and so certainly the advice that
they've provided in this area, like others, has been really helpful.
It's been informative, it's highlighted things that we need to
think about are particularly in different segments you use, for
example in juniors is where you know there's really complex
(05:14):
things happening in that space. So any advice or guidance
that they can give is really helpful. They obviously can't
answer everything, and they also have to respect what's asked
of them to support. So the short answer is that
we were a resource sport and we have a capability
and capacity to make these decisions that will go forward
(05:34):
that might ectually more challenging for others perhaps who don't
necessarily have all those resources.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
They weren't directives though, were they. It wasn't you must
do this, It was just based on suggestion. So taking
the suggestions away, was there actually even any point in
doing that? If people had their own decisions to make
and they could handle it themselves, Surely a bit of
guidance from upstairs the information they've gleaned would not be
(05:58):
a bad thing. I appreciate what they're doing, but to
take all the guidelines away that weren't mandatable guidelines is odd.
Speaker 6 (06:06):
Yeah, And we certainly know from sort of a whole
bunch of different situations that that kind of guidance that
comes across the sector is really helpful, and so I'm
sure other sports would have really appreciated all the.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
Sport that it's been coming down from sportings.
Speaker 6 (06:20):
Yet a whole bunch of areas, if we go back
to COVID, they provided some hugely valuable sort of interpretation
frameworks of which you are really important to rugby, but
for other smallest sort of nesos really really important to
help interpret things. So potentially this would be an area
where others might feel it more so than Rugby.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
So with transgender participation, you said you've you've made moves
in that space and be doing it for a few years. Now,
what are the big steps that you've made, the decisions
that you've made, what's faced you, what's been in the
way or helped you out with this? What are the
issues around transgender participation in a community level Mike.
Speaker 6 (07:00):
So the first one is is there a need for
a policy in the space because it's easy to regulate everything,
but sometimes regulation and doesn't actually help what makes actually
life harder for people on the ground. And we think
about how our community game is delivered. It's delivered by
tens of thousands of volunteers. There's one hundred and twenty
hundred and thirty thousand people sort of accessing the game
(07:22):
through clubs and schools, and so it has to be
something that makes sense and is realistic in terms of
what's important to Rugby, our values around inclusion, our values
around the game for all shapes and sizes. It's a
game that's played by a wide range of our community European, Maori,
(07:42):
pacifica Asian, what are their sort of expectations and values
that they want.
Speaker 7 (07:46):
To see reflected in the game that they play.
Speaker 6 (07:49):
And also that important lens of safety in terms of
how do we ensure that across all of all levels
of the game we are providing a safe experience. Albeit
we're a contact sport and we're also a sport where
physical mismatches is actually part of its essence being bigg
as an advantage in some ways being smallers and advantages
(08:10):
and others.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
So when you look at the brushstrokes for the decisions
made around transgender playing of the game, are you're saying
you look to the community, but you've got a number
of different facets of that community. As you mentioned, how
much does their input sway your decisions around what you
do and is it isolated their own community they can
(08:34):
make their own call at that level, do they sit
under umbrella from NZR about what you think is best
for the sport?
Speaker 7 (08:43):
So it's usually a mix of both.
Speaker 6 (08:45):
In terms of our job is to provide leadership and
sort of the regulations around how the game should be
administered and delivered across the country, but it also needs
to be value by communities in a way that means
their needs, so that the community voice is really important.
We've run a series of workshops around what might be
(09:06):
topical for people in this space. Not surprisingly, we've had
really positive and strong engagement from those that are invested
in the girls and women's game around this issue. And
the themes that came through from those workshops where that
they really valued inclusion. They wanted to see people being included.
They didn't like the idea of people being excluded, but
they also wanted it to obviously be a safe environment,
(09:29):
and so they are the themes they came through really strongly.
Themes that weren't so strong were those around sort of
fairness because the reality is in the community space that's
a little bit harder to really deliver and to judge
because it's community sport, you play for a bunch of
different reasons other than necessarily the competition aspect of it.
(09:52):
In terms of the Rainbow community, we've engaged with them
around their views, particularly those that are engaged in the
game now or those that want to excess the game.
What they asked for was we're just real clarity, So
there was no surprises for them about how they could
be involved.
Speaker 7 (10:06):
And so they're the sort of themes that have been.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
Really strong and the sort of first wave for consultation
which we're now taken back and trying to work out, right,
what is a regulation that services that all of those
needs but also can be delivered on the grass as
it is a community game and it's delivered by tens
of thousands of volunteers.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Sportsfax Bravo New Zealand Hockey Keen Mableston and all of
his band of merry men and women who run the
game here in New Zealand have fought the fourth time
turned around and said that the fih, no, we're not
going to play in your top league. We're not going
to play in the pro league. It's happened twice with
(10:46):
the women's side, it's happened now twice with the men's side.
They have one key competitions they've got to the top
tier in the world of hockey and decided respectfully that yeah, nah,
they can't afford it. This is a very pragmatic decision
from New Zealand Hockey. It's a sensible decision. It's one
(11:07):
that you understand and when you look at what's happened
to New Zealand hockey over the years. They took an
absolute tweling at the hands of Sport New Zealand or
whoever issues the funds that they require to keep their
sport going at one point seven million dollars I think
it was they've got no money. Look, they can afford
(11:27):
to take our best New Zealand talent to the Pro League.
They can afford to do that. But if they spend
their money on taking their top teams to Europe, they've
got no money to spend on anything else. Nothing. The
grassroots fall apart, local hockey falls apart, and they simply
cannot do that. They've got to look at what the
(11:49):
FIH are doing with the Pro League, and basically it
is a league for European teams. New Zealand were to
play in that top level, they would sink their own
financial boat with flights and hotels. They wouldn't get any
home games, so all of their sponsors would be left
high and dry, and you destroy the players flying back
(12:12):
and forth from New Zealand over to Europe. For what
what makes it even worse is that when it comes
to smaller tours to other top level teams. None of
the other teams can afford it either, because they have
been rung dry by the FA eight to carry on
with this ridiculous pro league. You've got to admire New
(12:35):
Zealand Hockey for standing up and saying we can't afford it.
It is bad for our program. You guys need to
change and take some respect to the hockey playing countries
outside of Europe. Bravo, bravo, well done. You stick to
your guns.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
The Chamber is now in session on Sportsfax.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Into the Chamber we go. Let's start with rugby. Fletcher'll,
as mentioned previously, has re signed with New Zealand Rugby
Dars until twenty twenty eight. So there are a few
players and I've sent you a list so we're both
on the same page of those not signed yet beyond
the end of twenty twenty six, I meaning, of course,
that they're not signed for the next World Cup. You've
(13:18):
had a look at the list. Who are the priorities
for you?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
This is a hard one for me because I like
to look at the flask guys and the outsides and
the fun and games. But I think priority is always
going to be in the pack, is it not? Because
that's absolutely that's what you base successful rugby players on,
and I think you talk about the players that haven't
been picked yet, which is all well and good, But
(13:43):
just before we go into that, I'd like to celebrate
the fact that they've managed to sign a number of
sharp as players for a long time after the World Cup.
So that feels with encouragement that people still want to
play and be there and insine are making the right moves,
if you will. This is a great thing. So many
good players that are going to be staying. I haven't
(14:03):
really thought about who's not signed yet, So this is
a great topic that you've brought up.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, just on the list that you've just alluded to,
there here are the players beyond twenty twenty seven. Fletcherniulas mentioned,
Anton Lennott Brown, George Bell, Patrick Tuipolotto, the Man Mountain
that is, Fabian Holland, Sam Dowry, Passilio Toossi, A, Safwan Moure,
Reuben Love, Jordi Barrett and Damien McKenzie all signed past
the World Cup for at least another year and in
the case of d mac until the end of twenty
(14:30):
twenty nine. So forward planning is looking good. I just
look at that. I look at that list though, of
those who aren't re signed, and you talked about the forwards,
Tyrel Lomax only signed until the end of next year,
Big Offer, Alma Fussy only signed until the end of
next year. Summer Penny Female Ethan Blackadder in the same boat.
Are these the kind of guys who conversations need to
(14:51):
be had with?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Well, I think that an Offer's case is coming to
the end of a fantastic career, so I don't think
even though they can play both sides, people are going
to freak out too much if they don't sign him
on the dot a loan for a while. Sevu Reese
obviously in the back line, similar kind of situation. Hoskins
two to hasn't been given great deal of love from
Scott Robinson. Has he he's there or thereabouts. I hold
(15:15):
me surprised if he went. But the amount of looses
that we've gotten, we've seen this, it's not a problem.
But we've seen how good our loose forwards are so
far up against the French, and that will be well
tested in the championship. But we have got a lot
of bodies on the ground in that space now some
opening female as a player for the future Ethan blackad
it desperately unlucky, But there are two players I'd really
(15:37):
like to see a stick around a trol LNEX obviously
very important. So out of the ones that you've listed,
I'd run with. Those three are very important. The rest
maybe not. So.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
I think you've landed on actually a secondary topic here,
which is probably the more important topic, and that's those
who have signed. Like I say, I just read out
a dozen names before of those signed beyond the World Cup,
I'm not going to read them all out, but there
are seventeen or eighteen signed up until beyond the World
Cup or including the twenty twenty seven World Cup. So
we have to hand it to Chris Landrum and this team,
(16:07):
don't we in terms of future proofing the All Blacks
for the next World Cup?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yes we do, and maybe not enough has been made
about that. And I know I bar on about the
sabbatical and the foolishness of blah blah blah. It doesn't matter.
If they were saying he he's gonna stick around for
another few years and he's got a sabbatical, and they don't,
it'd be more important they said, well, we haven't given
him a sabbatical. That'll be of more interest, I think.
But behind all that, they're working really hard to keep
(16:34):
the best players here in New Zealand, which is a
very tough thing to do.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So they should be commended, indeed they should. All right,
let's go to formula one, talking of retaining or not people.
I noticed that the private jets and private yachts of
both Max for staff. This is the other half living.
Of course, does Max for Stappen and Toto Wolf Mercedes
team principle Their private jets and yachts just happened to
be in the same Sardinian location. Recently tongues have been
(17:01):
wagging about the staff and to Mercedes. But now Toto
Wolf's come out and said, no, my drivers next year
are the current guys, George Russell and Kimmi Antonelli. So
does this mean Max for Stappin stays pot at Red Bull.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
The key thing here is Christian Horner. Absolute key thing
here is Christian Horner. Christian Horner is gone and it
came pretty much from nowhere and well there were rumors,
but he's gone, which means that paves the way for
the Stappen to stay.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Do they had not like each other, these two.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
That's his dad, Jospher Stapping.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Now, Christian, I thought you were suggesting that Christian Horner
was Max for Steppin's father. I was trying to put
two or two together. There's this like Darth Vader and
Luke Skywalker.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
What I can gather back in the day when Max
z Stappin came up from ty Rosso racing balls that
is now that was blocked by Christian Horner, but the
brass at Red Bull overturned that, and Josopher Stappins never
never forgiven Christian Horner for doing that. So the fact
that Horner disappeared like that in the two weeks between
(18:07):
Graham pre would suggest that Red Bull trying everything they
possibly can to make sure Max first stepping doesn't go anywhere.
More to that, I don't see Totteo Wolf making a
decision like that. Doesn't seem very mercedes to me. That
they get rid of George Russell, that they get rid
of Kimmy Antonelli, to make way for the Stappin'. But
(18:30):
it's all rumor at the moment. But you said on
that and say, I think Max is staying although they've
got a completely different supplier because they're losing Honda and
they've got Ford turning up to help build their new engine.
So what does that mean for the team. Would that
still encourage Max to want to stay and develop this
new car? And if he does leave, well they're going
to need a new a new number one driver and
(18:53):
that would be George Russell. So and at the end
of it, Mickey's is running the whole show now and
he's a mate of Liam Lawson, but he loves him anyway,
so that's good for us, right, Am I making any
sense here? Mate?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I'm just so pleased that you're here. I'm so pleased
that you're here unpacked for me in such detail, and
your expertise and Formula one is one of the reasons
I keep you on in the chamber, not that I'm
in charge of it, of course, but it's good to
have you to unpack these Formula one and motorsport issues
for us on the regular base out there.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Right Alex Powell, who writes some great stuff for New
Zealand Herod are using the show and the podcast. He's
a Formula one head as well, so it's really nice
to sit around and discuss the variables of someone else
who understands the vagaries of motorsports. So it's always it
takes a village to raise a child.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Right as it does many more storylines that come out
of their one. That's us in the chamber.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
Today dissecting the sporting agenda.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's Sportsfix with Jason Pain and Darcy Waldgrave.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
And that brings to an end the reuniting of the
two of us in the Sports Fix podcast. It's been
a great pleasure having you listening, and thank you for downloading,
Thank you for subscribing. A fresh episode will drop into
your podcast feed around about the same time tomorrow and
every weekday. If in fact you.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Are a subscriber to the Sportsboks podcast, be a subscriber,
Tell your friends and your family to do exactly the
same thing. And if you want to join in with
sports Talk, sports Talk as I'm not news Talks, heb
between seven and eight pm Monday and Friday. Piney's got
the Monday gig, I'm Tuesday through Friday, and then of
course the whole shooting match is all up to you.
Jason Pine with Weekend Sport between twelve midday and three
(20:30):
o'clock Saturday and Sunday. You know Reunit, remember that song
from what was at the eighty Reunite.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
You are the herb. You are the herb to my peach.
You are the herb to my peaches.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
And herb because I was going to say peaches and cream,
but that's not quite the right direction. We need to
go out.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Let's all together, look, let's snog it on the head.
See you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iart Radio.
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