Ohio Wesleyan assistant coach Tanner McHugh, the guy behind True Tan Wrestling

Pennsylvania native Tanner McHugh was a two-time high school state placewinner who opted to go the Division III route for college. During his time at Baldwin Wallace University in Ohio, McHugh launched the True Tan Wrestling YouTube channel.

Fast forward a couple of years and McHugh is now coaching in Division III at Ohio Wesleyan University, a school that's in just its sixth year of wrestling. McHugh got back to his True Tan brand recently and will be releasing a documentary on the 2018 NCAA Division I season, focusing heavily on the Penn State-Ohio State rivalry.

You can check out the documentary the fourth week in March at https://www.youtube.com/@UC2D1k_CPNKpnRujOsIWU4OQ

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Short Time Wrestling Podcast: Episode 745 – February 22, 2024

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Whoa, it's the Short Time WrestlingPodcast. Welcome back again, wrestling fans.

(00:20):
I am your host, Hall ofFame wrestling writer, broadcaster and announcer
Jason Bryant. Today on the show, going to talk with True Tan Wrestling.
Tanner mcewe, the assistant coach atOhio Wesleyan University, a Division three
school in Ohio. He created achannel a couple of years ago called True
Tan Wrestling. He's got a documentaryhe is releasing the week of the NCAA
Championships talking about some really cool stuffgoing back to twenty eighteen. We'll talk

(00:44):
to him about that, his careerat Baldwin Wallace, getting into coaching at
Division three, and things of thelike. That was a real good conversation
and I was happy to bring itto you. Happy Tanner reached out to
talk about what he's got going on. A couple things in the news I
will get to momentarily, But firstthing I want to tell you is Wrestling
Previewguide dot com. Go to WrestlingPreviewguide dot com. Use promo code,

(01:07):
discount code podcast, save ten dollarson my massive championship preview guide. I
have got all the prep work doneall the history has been updated, the
standings, the arguments about which stateis the best, which state has the
most All Americans, which date hasthe most national champions, all that stuff,
the history the most falls the ow'sthe Freshman Champs. Basically, if

(01:27):
you've got a question that you can'tanswer in this within reason, of course,
I'm not going to be able totell you, like how many of
these All Americans were state champions.I haven't done that research just yet.
Now I can go back to twentyfifteen and tell you that. And that
is one thing that has actually addedin the individual profiles this year is how
many state titles the individuals that aregoing to compete at the twenty twenty four

(01:49):
NCAAA Championships in Kansas City have duringyour high school career. But basically,
it's your trivia book, it's yourbar Bett Answer Solver thinger, it's your
fantasy wrestling Pickham's guide sheet. Thisis what you need to accompany yourself your
trip. You can read it onyour phone, you can read it on

(02:09):
your tablet, on your laptop,digital document. It's going to be over
to It was over two hundred andfifty pages last year. I'm doing some
modifications to the sizing so it printsbetter. I know people like to print
this thing out. I would encouragean extra ink cartridge because it's a lot
of information. I throw it atyou at Wrestling Previewguide dot com. Use

(02:30):
the promo Code discount Code podcast atcheckout. You'll save ten dollars. I
assure you it is worth every penny. I've done this for almost twelve I
think this is twelve years I've donethis now, and it has been an
absolute I've got it figured out towhere the hard part is actually setting it
up each year. The hard partis updating the data and then you know,

(02:51):
the hard part last year was goingwith that eight bit theme and then
putting a font throughout the whole time. I'm not gonna do that again.
I'm just gonna stick with the covertheme. This year. We're going with
the comic book action figure. Iused it for the Virginia Duals cover my
home wrestling tournament back there, Sothat is something we're looking into. So
Wrestling preview Guide dot Com get theguide, Wrestling preview Guide dot Com Promo

(03:13):
Code podcast. That's if you're listeningto this show. That's how I know
you got it from this show tosave ten bucks on it. Some wrestling
media news out there. I wasactually recently featured. Actually today is Thursday,
February twenty second. Fox nine herein Minnesota came over and talked to
me about the Minnesota State High SchoolLeague and they're just horrible credentialing process.

(03:34):
Over the years, I've been deniedmultiple times. I don't even apply for
it anymore, honestly, to becompletely clear, it's because I'm announcing the
ANAIA Championships that weekend. But onthe days of the calendar or the years
the calendar falls, I would liketo cover this thing. But one year,
I think it was twenty sixteens like, there are too many blogs,
advertisements and links to services that disqualifyyou. It's like and then I remember

(03:59):
the new person Road Schmidt was inhere saying, well, that's exactly what
our website is and they're a newsstation. So I talked about that.
Alan Josh Alvinz and Josh Raymond fromthe Allen Joshua in Minnesota also been fighting
that battle for a while. I'vebeen fighting it for about seven years,
you know, when they denied DavidPeterson, who has been credentialed at the
Olympic Trials and multiple NCAA Championships andstuff. They say he's not good enough

(04:24):
or he's not a real media out. It's just the Minnesota State High School
League is just ridanculous with this stuff. So other things with good things about
the media. They actually came intothe speakeasy and did this thing. By
the way, I was pretty prettyI was pretty geeked to actually have the
speakeasy show up on the local newshere because not a whole lot of people
have actually seen it. So TonyDeMarco actually pointed out my yingling lagger attacker,

(04:47):
and yngling is actually going to bea topic of our discussion with Tanner
McHugh. So National Wrestling Media Association, which some of you may know I
am the president of, announced it'saward winners. As I read this twenty
five am, February twenty second,as the Blood Round boys say the year
of our Lord Gable, but that'stheir line. I'm not going to say
it, but here are the winner. Shannon Scovel from NCAA dot Com is

(05:09):
Journalist of the Year. Rock Harrison, mister excitable, him and Shane might
have a runoff for who's got themost caffeine running through This is Rock Harrison
from the ACC Network and ESPNS Broadcasterof the Year Randy Jaeger. She does
a great job for iareussell dot Comphotographer of the Year. Our man Willy
Sailor with Matt Scouts is the outletof the year, and that is not

(05:31):
Willy specifically, but that is theoutlet that he runs as since he's gone
on his own with on the Rockfinnchannel, so Mad Scouts, which does
honestly more high school wrestling content thanyou can you can actually consume. So
I congress to Willie on that.Another ward D three Nation the Bonaventura Brothers
picking up Podcasts of the Year Dthree Nation a Division three specific podcast,

(05:54):
Kaylee Nole at Little Rock Division oneSID of the Year. I've had an
opportunity to work with her closely thelast five year, and it's one of
those things where people that don't knowwrestling right away, they can go two
directions. They can actually actually justend up hating the sport and just hate
their assignment as a graduate assistant,or they can love it. And Kaylee
has fallen in love with the sportof wrestling. Not only that she has

(06:15):
done a tremendous job going from somebodywho had really never seen it before to
providing some of the most complete resourcesthat anybody needs to know as a media
or media individual, I go downthere to announce duel meets, and there's
the notes, the packet of notes, there's the pre match pressers, there's
and then all the social media thatgoes with it. Like you know,
twenty years ago, that was thestandard operating procedure. Now few places do

(06:38):
notes, and a few places evendo. I mean some of these recaps
are like two sentences in a boxscore. You know, Kaylee's stuff is
very complete. So congrats to herand Little Rock, which has had a
tremendous season, and this just addsto it. Now these awards are for
last season, so they're for twentytwenty two to twenty three. And the
reason is is the Media Association isa volunteer organization and we end our season

(06:59):
after the World Championship, So wewant to look at Worlds to worlds like
you know what happens right after theWorld Championships through the World Championships the next
year because we have more people thatcover the sport than just the high school
season. So I didn't get thenominations, call for nominations out till November,
didn't get the votes tallied till probablyend of you know, end of
January, December, and it wasjust, you know, it's a lot

(07:21):
of work to put this together andagain we're not being paid for it.
We do it because we value thecraft. So these are for last season.
The last award was the Small Collegesid which went to Carry Call of
Cornell College. That guy has beenjust a rockstar since he's been covering wrestling
for seventeen years. The Media Associationwill put out a couple Spotlight Awards and

(07:43):
the Hammond Award later. The SpotlightAwards are to recognize like exceptional work in
an area that may not hit oneof our categories. So if somebody like
writes a stellar book or something likethat, or there's a documentary piece that
needs to be focused, brought out, pulled out on its own, or
something like that. And the HammondAward is basically our lifetime one of our
lifetime service awards. So if you'vegot a career in it, in this

(08:05):
sport and you've done things to furtherthe sport of wrestling. Those are for
the Jay Hammond Award. Last yearJohn Hope and Andy Hamilton won those.
Hope is the publisher of Amateur WrestlingNews, and of course Andy. If
you don't know anything about Andy Hamilton, you really probably haven't been paying that
much attention to the sport of wrestling, because he's probably one of the best
journalists. I mean, like Isaid, the Bob Dellinger Award that Amateur

(08:26):
Wrestling News is for the wrestling writerof the year, and it's named after
Bob Dellinger, who won it likethree times. I mean, if we
wanted to name the Media Association Journalistof the Year Award after Andy Hamilton,
I don't think we would have thatmuch pushback, if any, because Andy
is kind of the dean of wrestlingjournalists right now. The guys you know,
back from Iowa City to De Boineand I was will Flow Sports and
was with Track Wrestling before they gotsucked up underneath Flow Sports, and you

(08:48):
know, Andy's just he's tremendous.So we're focusing a little bit on last
year's award, but that is theNWMA Awards for this year, actually for
last season, National Wrestlingmedia dot Com. You can check that out and at
Media Wrestle. That's what I've gotfor you today again talking with Tanner McHugh
from Ohio Wesleyan University, a Divisionthree school in Delaware, Ohio here about

(09:13):
his upcoming documentary with the True TanYouTube channel. We're going to talk about
the content creation that goes with it, the editing process, life is a
Division three coach, Shannon Athlete,and all that and more coming up here
on the Short Time Wrestling Podcast.Whoo and welcome back to the Short Time
Wrestling Podcast. News reviews, previewsand interviews with all the notable names and

(09:35):
things you need to know in wrestling. I'm Jason Bryant back again today,
joined by Tanner mchue, the assistantwrestling coach at Ohio Wesleyan University at Division
three school in Delaware, Ohio.But some of you that are in the
wrestling creator space or those of youthat have been digging on YouTube for years
may actually know this guy by hisactual not coaching name, as he's had
to brand it as True Tan Wrestlefrom ets derived from his name. But

(10:00):
Tanner, first of all, welcometo the program, and you know how
things been going for you in theBattling Bishops this season. They've been going
pretty good. Uh, once again, thanks for having me, man,
this is exciting stuff. But it'sgoing good. We're having a fun year.
We're we're a young program, onlysix years in, so I'm happy
just to be a part of it. And uh, it's been fun.

(10:22):
We have a lot of young guysthat put a lot of working in the
season, so sophomore juniors off season, excuse me, and uh, it's
really showing. Uh, they're justbattling out there and having fun and hopefully
to crack our first national qualifier thisyear in program history. So we're just
we're just having fun with it again. Right for regionals coming up here in
like a week and a half,So busy time over here. Before we

(10:45):
get into what were the main partof what we're talking about today, you're
working on a documentary that you'll bereleasing the week of the NCAA Division One
Championships. But we're going to backit up to find out a little bit
about who Tanner McK is and andmaybe a little bit about where did true
tan Russell come from. But firstthing off, your you're a Pennsylvania.
Guy wrestled at Tamaqua as you toldme. When I lived in PA,
I wasn't quite familiar with with that. I was that's New Ringgold, just

(11:05):
out kind of between Allantown, Wilkespearand Pottsville, if my geography is correct,
right there on the edge of DistrictFree. Now. I don't know
if you can actually say this ornot considering the uh the religious inflection of
your school, but Pottsville so,uh, you're a Lagger fan by chance?
Yeah? No, Uh, Ihave a funny story about that actually,

(11:26):
so answer your question. Yes,but so my fiance. So when
I went to college. You canassume we do some things in college when
we're not on the wrestling matt andpicking our times. But uh, my
one buddy had had like a Yinglingand I had no idea, Like I
thought that was just my part ofPA. Like I didn't realize they were
out in Ohio. I wrestled atball the Wallace up in Cleveland, so

(11:48):
I was like, oh wow.And then a couple of years ago,
buy me my fiance at college andshe's a huge Yingling fan like their whole
family, and I'm like, man, I had no idea, and uh
so then I take her back homeand I've never been to the brewery my
whole time being that close to Pottsville, I've never been to the brewery.
And yeah, she was like,we gotta go, gotta go. So

(12:09):
my first time actually going was liketwenty years twenty years in, finally got
to go. Twenty two ish yearsin. Finally got to go to the
brewery and do the tour and everything. And I highly recommend it if anyone's
in the area. But yeah,no, I'm a Lagger fan. Yeah,
and if people are wondering what theturn So I may have gotten the
District eleven thing wrong, but Igot the terminalogy right. So up there,

(12:31):
you don't call it. You don'torder a yngling, you order a
Lagger. And I learned this becausemy college roommates were all from Pennsylvania,
Muhlenberg and rich Land and all throughoutCentral PA. So it was lagger,
you know. And then when theybrought it down to Virginia, We're like,
hey, go get some Laggers.And they didn't know how to price
it right at the food line nearwhere I went to school, so they

(12:52):
were priced to get like it waslike bush or something. So we were
getting it cheap before they, youknow, the other places area were pricing
at like a premium beer. AndI'm like, well, yeah, it's
it's logger, it's good. Soyeah, so I've when I see Pottsville,
that's the one thing It's like,oh yeah, cool. I've even
got a yingling attacker here in thespeakeasy because when I go out of East
it's and things is key. Ifyou're in Florida, don't buy it because

(13:15):
it's Tampa water. It doesn't tastethe same as the old Pennsylvania well water.
But as as moving away from thethis is a beer discussion, I
could talk out forever, but we'retalking about wrestling. You were a two
time place winner in double A inPennsylvania, and looking at some of your
brackets, I found it kind ofinteresting on who's wrestling, who's done with
their careers, and who is stillwrestling, and who is coaching. One

(13:35):
of the guys that you wrestled atthe state tournament who was only a year
behind you, but you are inyour second year of coaching, he is
still wrestling in college, Cole Matthews. So when you look at this thing
and like how are these people stillwrestling? Yeah? No, I think
about that all the time. YouKnow what's funny is so like that junior
and senior year, I wrestled alot of freshmen that you could kind of

(13:58):
tell we're going to be like reallygood, like Clayton oriy uh for lower
Dolphin wrestles at Virginia Tech now andstuff. And I always thought like,
all right, I got these toughfreshman wins, which at the time you
get mad at you're an upper classman, but you're like, these kids are
probably gonna go d one. Souh. I always thought like, these
dudes I beat, We're gonna goon to be pretty good. And I'm

(14:18):
still holding on that one of themis gonna all American and I can be
like, hey, I beat beatthat dude. But my fiance always makes
fun of me because when d onerolls around like guys like Cole Matthews,
uh, Spencer Leef five me infreestyle, I wrestled Evan Wick. Uh.
The list goes on and on ofsome of these greats in the sport,
and uh, whenever Cole wrestles,I always tap my fiance and she

(14:41):
rolls her eyes and goes she alreadyknows what's kind of like he TechEd me
at the state tournament. So,uh, it's just crazy. Uh because
these guys in the D one level, they can red shirt a lot easier
than us on the D three level. We basically can on the D three
level, and uh, there's medicalred shirts that are a lot easier for
him. And then the COVID yearjust messed everything up. So I mean,
I still root for the guy.It's awesome, but it is crazy.

(15:03):
I'm in my second year coach andthis dude's got one more year.
But no, it's awesome, man. I love seeing it, for sure,
but wild stuff. Yeah, andlooking at some of the brackets,
you know, the discussions about thetop wrestling states always seems to generate a
lot of discussion. I am ofthe opinion that Pennsylvania is the best high
school wrestling state in the country.I know, our friends in Illinois will

(15:26):
look at the Fargo numbers and say, hey, hey, because Illinois is
a very good high school wrestling stateCalifornia. But when you look at you
know, wrestle at the Giant Center, and you know, even if it's
double, you know, even it'seven funny that the triple A. Guys
in pennsylvaniall dog the double A.It's double A. Like, bro,
it's a really good wrestling in there. But we look at your your double
A. I mean we mentioned callMatthew Brian Courtney wrestled at University of Virginia.

(15:48):
You wrestled him in the quarterfinals andin your career to place you had
to wrestle in the blood round twotimes. What's that like? What's the
pressure like that for a guy toyou know, in a rugged wrestling state
like Pennylings like, I've got towin this to place because even though you
place eight, these are some deepbrackets. Just getting to the PA States
is a chore. Yeah, itwas, especially out of like District eleven

(16:11):
when I was there was really reallyI mean it's still is. It was
really really tough. And my junioryear so I was I think regional alternate
and then state alternate freshman sophomore yearhow it went and then that, I
mean, you know how it islike if you come out of your district
as a four, you're gonna havelike a pretty tough draw going forward in
the postseason. So I knew Iwas just gonna have a tough draw at

(16:33):
that regional and made it out asthe six to take top six. So
and it's kind of funny because Ilooked, like two days before the state
tournament. I looked because the yearbefore was the first time they extended the
brackets at Pennsylvania to twenty instead ofsixteen. And I looked at all the
guys who got that extra spot,so like the places that only took top

(16:56):
three, the fourth place guy now, and then the sixth place guy now,
and all of them went oh andtwo the year prior. So I
was like, oh man, LikeI remember, I was telling my buddies.
I was like, guys, ifI placed in this bracket, like
I don't even care, Like I'mgonna be smiling even if it's at eighth
place. Because my junior year therewas I think three returning state champs,
and the guy who won it wasn'teven one of them, Brian Courtney,

(17:18):
who was just on a mission thatyear. So it was wild that first
year I was. I was beyondnervous. I don't like to tell people
that. And in high school Ialways thought if I didn't get a warm
up, like I wasn't going tobe able to perform and I didn't even
get a match before that. Thekid didn't make weight, so like I
won a match lock, I beatup by Matthews, got a four fit

(17:41):
that next day, and then hadto wrestle in the Blood round at the
Giants Center that I've never done beforeand didn't have a really good warm up,
and I was just like so nervous, but I don't I don't know
what just came into me. Ikind of just sucked it up and went
out there and it was an awesomeexperience. I actually beat the guy who
won our district in regional, whichwas crazy, like we never wrestled in
the whole process and just wrestled reallywell and it was a fun experience,

(18:06):
but man, it was nerve wracking. And then that second time, I
think I just in the back ofmy mind, I mean, when I
went the same weight as Brian Courtney, I think the thought was is we're
going to fight that guy tooth andnail and he beat me up, but
the thought was like, I'm I'msecond best at the wait and overall I
took six so that didn't come tofruition. But that year I just had

(18:26):
the experience, so I was like, I don't really care what round it
is. I'm just going to keepbattling and trying to win. So but
man, it's it's crazy that bloodaround round of twelve there and says is
just I don't know, I thinkit's one of the best rounds ever.
It might even beat some of thesome of like the quarterfinal matches at times.
But yeah, it was. It'sa good time. Fun to look

(18:47):
back and looking at your decision togo division three, you know, part
of Pennsylvania. I mean, there'sno shortage of wrestling opportunities in PA.
We look at some of the guysthat you beat your senior year, you
know, Colton bab Cock went andwrestled Division two at Shippensburg and then Tyler
Alberts wrestled at Seaton Hill and aWheeling. So, uh, the division
two opportunity is pretty prevalent in Tonslvaniaas well as Division three. Why did

(19:10):
you head to Ohio? What madeyou choose Baldwin Wallace? Yeah, that's
kind of a and sorry, man, I can kind of ramble, so
sorry about that. I'm starting tonotice. But anyway, Uh, I
don't know, I had a Ihad a lot of friends that went D
one. I trained at Dark Knightsa lot, and then had a lot
of friends locally that went D one, and uh, that's when I started

(19:30):
to notice that like going D oneand at the time was just you got
to you gotta be all in onit and just to be honest, like
at the time, like I cutso much weight in high school, like
I didn't even know if I coulddo it in another four years. And
then I had some friends that wentD three and had really good experiences,
and then uh D two wise,Uh, oddly enough, I didn't get

(19:52):
a lot of D two like looksweirdly enough. My dad still brings that
up and I always say, Dad, it's like not that big of a
deal, Like it all worked outreally well. But yeah, so I
was getting looked by like Hofstra Bloomsbury. I know, I talked to a
lot the D one level and thenD three Wise after I placed that first
year was kind of overwhelming. Letterswere still a big thing. Now.

(20:15):
I mean we still send letters outtoo, but a lot of it's just
social media and getting kids' phone numbersat this point in our strategy. But
letters were just a big thing.So after I placed that year. I
remember the week after like I wasjust getting bombarded by letters. And this
is how naive I was. Ithought like, if I sent a letter
to a school like I wasn't reallyinterested in and I told them that they

(20:37):
would start spreading the word to liketheir other coaching buddies, which isn't how
this works at all, not evenclose. So I actually got a call
from a school in Iowa, andI remember talking to my dad and he
was just like, do you reallywant to go that far? Like I
knew I kind of wanted to geta little further away from home, like
three to five hour range. Ilooked at a lot of East Coast stuff,
Pennsylvania stuff too, and then bahblah blah was five and a half

(21:00):
hours. And oddly enough, rightafter that Iowa phone call, like the
day before, I sent my letterback to BW and the rest was kind
of history. It's kind of crazy. If I would have got that BW
letter like any amount of days later, I never would have even filled it
out, never would have got recruitedprobably by them, and OT know,
things just kind of clicked. Theyjust were a lot. They were just

(21:22):
really professional at the time. Ilike to say, now it's almost cool
to go to b W. Now, I mean they're a trophy team,
and at the time that was ourmentality. We placed the national duels a
ton of times, just couldn't crackinto that top four and well now it's
top three. But I mean wewere just a bunch of really good dudes.
It was it was kind of funbeing in a different state, different
environment. Everyone was like, oh, you're from PA, you must be

(21:44):
so good at top. That wasa weird thing. They made fun of
how I said tournament. Now Isay tournament the coke pop thing. I'm
going off the rails. Soda.It's soda, Yeah, soda, It
is soda. It is soda,Thank you, thank you, it is
Indeed, So I realized I livein Minnesota and they want to call it
pop. I know, that's that'sa battle in my own household, dude.

(22:07):
So it's not just that's not juststate lines. That's that's in the
that did my domicile. So Iget you there. Now. When you
came on board at Baldwin Wallace,coach Gibbs had had basically the program had
undergone a transformation. The administration basicallyhad given the school basically no postseasons and
you kind of had to start fromscratch. So how much of that was
coach Gibbs working through when you cameon board And what was the mentality of

(22:29):
the guys that were coming into roomwith you at that time? It wasn't
We were kind of near the tailend of that like class, so like
a lot of those guys that werehis first So he was at UNC Pembroke,
brought that program back to life andthen came up to b W not
sure in the year and was theassistant for like a year with like six

(22:49):
guys or something like that, andthen the year it got they weren't allowed
to do any postseason was the hebrought in like close to thirty dudes,
which is what you just need todo when a program's down there, just
got to kind of do the massrecruiting thing. And I think it,
in my honest opinion, coach givesus a big mentor to me and my

(23:10):
new mentor here at all I wasin Coach Reid, and I think it
almost helped those guys because it didn'tgive him a red shirt by any means,
but they basically got to do afull season and then when the offseason
hit or the postseason hit, theytrained just like they were going to regionals.
They trained just like they were goingto the national tournament. And if
you have twenty five to thirty dudesall bought in like they're going to the

(23:32):
national tournament and training like that,even when it literally didn't exist for him
at that time, it just reallybuilt up the culture he was looking for
really fast. So then he justkept building recruiting wise. And then when
I was a freshman, a lotof those guys were assistant coaches or fifth
year seniors if they got medical redshirts, stuff like that, and it

(23:52):
was pretty cool because I heard somethingfrom that year, a story or something
every year from coach Gibs and guysthat were on the team, and I
think it almost helped that they hadthat year to where from a coaching standpoint,
I don't know how he really soldit, like come on in,
we got six dudes and then we'renot gonna have a postseason. But coach
gives us a master at that stuff, really good at building relationships. It's

(24:14):
helping me recruiting. But it reallyhelped a lot because it just it makes
it grateful for what you got atthe very least. What's one thing about
the Division three level is when westart wrestling programs, people look and there's
gonna be teams at the bottom,There's gonna be teams that in the middle,
there's there's in Division three, there'stwo teams at the top, and
then you know who's battling for thattwo three spot. The two can change

(24:37):
from year to year. But whatdid you know about Division three before coming
in? And what was it aboutthe classification that not only made you want
to compete there but coach there onceyou got done. Yeah, I actually
knew an all right amount about Divisionthree, mostly from these PA schools,
like when I was in high schoolman like Delval, like Homing Wilkes.

(25:00):
They were really cooking, Like likeI a lot of older guys that gradually
when I was like a freshman,they were having these killer careers. And
some of these guys were like threetimes Pennsylvania state placers, never really made
the finals. I remember my visitto Lacombing Lansbury did my visit and he
was a state finalist behind Zane Ruthafferand he went D three. So in
the back of my mind, Ialways just thought again, like, if

(25:22):
I'm not all there, I don'tthink D one's it. D three is
still a very very big commitment.If I didn't buy in, I don't
think I would have made it.So I'm glad on that end, but
I was just a two time stateplacer. You look on the D one
level, very rarely do you seelike a guy who takes eighth at state
just pop off of the only guyI can think of is Perry from Lockhaven,
who took seventh trip pla. SoI always thought D three was kind

(25:45):
of where I wanted to go,and b W they said like this is
going to be a D one experienceon a D three level, So that
kind of checked the box there andthen just kind of going through b W
just to give him credit. Man, I mean, the culture was really
really strong when I was there,and Coach Gibbs, Coach Jastro really kind
of turned an eighteen year old kidthat thought he had it all figured out

(26:07):
wrestling wise in all aspects and mademe realize like, hey, maybe I
need to start listening and buying in. And I don't know, the culture
just kind of changed my life.I was just talking to one of their
athletes, and he was telling mekind of similar things to how I was
when he was in those shoes,and I don't know, just being in
a program like that, and nearmy end of my career, I started

(26:29):
which I'm sure we'll get into,started my YouTube channel. Really just fell
in love with the sport, andI think in the back of my head,
I was like, I'm going touse my degree. I'm going to
use my degree, but I shouldhave just realized I'm going to get into
back into wrestling, like this iswhat I want to do for the rest
of my life. This is mydream job. And I just love the
Division III level because if you're comingto the Division three level, like you
love the sport. Yes, there'sa lot of financial aid money, which

(26:52):
a lot of people don't talk about. You can get a lot of money
going to Vision three, but there'sno sports money. So if you really
want to come, you're gonna fallin love with the sport. And it's
totally why I went to b wIS because I loved love the campus,
love the guys on the team,love the program, loved everything like it.
So that's kind of how we sellit here too. Yeah, I
don't want to get too much intopumping up the alma mater because you've got

(27:15):
you've got three different letters on yourshirt, but you set it up with
with your YouTube channel. So rightnow we look around, there's YouTube channels
that are popping up. Of course, kateen Henschell at Parkside is one of
the most popular ones. He's aDivision two athlete. And then you've got
things like BEG Wrestling. You've gota bunch of channels and a lot of
them. To be honest with you, I don't live in the YouTube video
space very much. Those of youthat have watched this show on YouTube know

(27:36):
that the video portion of this doesn'tget get a whole lot of views,
whereas the audio does. And Igo one day, I was just going
through, I'm like, who theheck are these guys? And I'm looking
like the channel's been around for liketwo three years. I'm like, and
how many subscribers they get? Youknow, I was kind of there when
Stalemates jumped on the scene initially,but it was like and then look at
you know, finding you and findingKate, and I'm just like, what,
where, where where did these adscome from? So let's talk about

(27:59):
what was it like to the ideaof saying, Hey, I'm going to
start a YouTube channel. Why wasYouTube the platform? And where did you
see that that early success to theearly viewers, I mean, you got
over three thousand subscribers right now.Nothing to sneeze at. So when the
idea started, you know, youryour senior, your last year, you
know, what's the genesis of truetan wrestle? Yeah, it was kind
of weird. So when I wasyoung, I always made like little movies

(28:22):
with my friends. Actually, inone of my videos, I kind of
just go in depth of who Iam for my fans, and I watched
one of the old ones and they'repretty bad. But but looking back on
it, it's kind of like wrestlingwith with a career, Like it's not
really the the thing like the matchesand stuff that you remember. It's the
van rise, the bus rides.It's the moments with your friends and all

(28:44):
the hardships that come together just makesomething pretty cool. So I did all
that, and I was really biginto movie reviews. I still kind of
am a little bit. I thinkthose videos get kind of negative anymore,
Like the ones that get the bigviews are always about terrible movie so I'm
not. I try not to bea negative person, so not as much
anymore. But when I was akid, I don't know why. I

(29:07):
just love that stuff. So Ialways thought like I'm gonna be the next
big movie reviewer on YouTube and yeahyeah. And then once I got to
college, like you just get sobusy with classes and everything, and I
always tried, like I remember,like I picked a movie and was gonna
do it, and then start doingas a little hobby. And just whenever
I would get through either the writingprocess or the editing process, like I

(29:30):
never felt that love like I didwhen I was a kid or in high
school and stuff, so I alwaysjust stopped halfway through projects. And then,
like I said, that fifth yearfor me, like I just really
loved wrestling, like I always lovedNCAA's but there was just something different.
Honestly, that COVID year kind ofsaved me because I was starting to feel
a little bit of burnout and itforced me to get away from wrestling.

(29:52):
And then when D One's came back, Dude, it was it was all
duels, which I won't get intothat debate, but all duels sometimes is
the way to go. Man,like they're just so much so entertaining.
And I had a roommate who talkeda lot of wrestling, but there was
always these things in hell where Iwas like, well, no one's talking
about this, no one's talking aboutthat. And then there was another YouTube
channel that did basically my style ofvideo but for football, and I was

(30:17):
like, I wonder how this wouldwork for wrestling, and did the whole
thing again, wrote up the scriptand then started editing, and that love
was just always there. It was. It was a lot of fun made
my first video and it it kindof popped off, which was kind of
crazy because I always said myself,like whether these get five views or however
many views, I'm just gonna keepdoing it and keep getting better at it
and working at the craft. Anduh yeah, just kept just kept sort

(30:38):
of building from there, and I'mI'm pretty blessed for the for my audience
and everything like that, and peoplejust listening and some people have hateful things
to say, and that's just thespace, but that's fine. I mean,
normally it's a lot of just stuffthat can help me grow and this
little critiques and then a lot ofpeople are pretty grateful that there's just YouTube
content covering NCAAs, so I'm anotherwrestling So yeah, just kind of all

(31:04):
spiraled into that. Uh Luckily Iwas pretty big into it when I was
younger. I would have a prettyhard time editing and stuff. But that's
my favorite part. The editing part'sthe best in my opinion. Yeah,
getting into the weeds on that alittle bit. What's what what programs do
you use? A lot of peopledo stuff like I avoid TikTok like I
cannot. I'm just I'm too oldfor that, Like I am no,
I'm in my forties, Like Ilook at it, and I tried to

(31:26):
do it for like wrestling Shure Todayin May one year and it was okay,
and then I was like, allright, let me install it again.
And then the first person I seethat popped up on my feed was
like, you know, Rich Bender, the EXECUTI director said wrestling his senior
and high school daughter was the firstaccount that popped up my delete. I
do not need to be on thisapp, so we get there. But
but you know, so like videoediting, like a lot of stuff people

(31:48):
do on the phone, I useuh, you know, I used Premiere,
I've used iMovie, I've used.I go back to Final Cut.
So I use a lot of thoseediting things when I did a lot of
video. But what's it like foryou as a content creator these days as
far as the editing problems. Yeah, so I actually use this editing software
called Filmora pro when I was incollege. It was free. It's not,
they're not free anymore by any means, but it was a pretty simple

(32:12):
editing software when I first tried incollege. And they're just really good at
adapting with the times. Like nowthey have speech to text, so that's
like like on TikTok for example,which I'm not on there either, but
YouTube shorts for example, like thosesubtitles that pop up like the second people
are talking, which is pretty bigfor algorithm and stuff like that. They've
adapted to that really well. Juststart cracking into that space. And they're

(32:37):
just really good at keeping the complicatedstuff and editing simple, which I love
and everything like that. So Iuse that, and then for recording I
use Audacity, which is just soso simple, so nice and so free.
Yep, yeah exactly. I actuallyfound them through like an internship I
had where I had to like recordradio stations for sponsorships or something, and

(33:00):
so I found them through that.I was like, hey, I could
use this to record, and itsounds so much cleaner than what I was
using. So but those are theprimarily the two things. Fill More Audacity,
so type it up, type itup on a Google drive, talk
it out on Audacity, and thenstart editing away on Filmura. Yeah,
I use Fillmore in a pinch.It's one of those things like it's not

(33:22):
as resource heavy and the learning curveis not anywhere remotely close to what like
Premiere is because I was I wasusing final Cut. Now I got you
know, I used a creative cloudbecause I use in design for my preview
guide, I use Photoshop, butnow I use a lot less Photoshop.
I use what is it, AdobeExpress essentially now, so it's like,
oh, you know, removing backgroundsused to be such a task. Now

(33:43):
it's just like remove background, clickbutton and there's a cutout. And I
love that. But so, yeah, I got my start when it came
to this, came to this showback in twenty thirteen on Audacity, and
it was it's still used quite heavily, I know, And there's you know,
there's free programs there that are youget what you pay for, and
there's free programs like Audacity that arejust they They may look bare bones,
but they work. I mean Iused it for several years before I gravitated

(34:07):
over to like, wait, Ihad the Creative Cloud. Why am I
not using Audition? So you knowthat that syncs up. So yeah,
Audacity to do a lot of stuff. Sometimes if I need a quick quick
record on an old laptop, it'sstill on there. I hit that.
So definitely sounds like you're in theright spot there. Moving into actually I
want to get into Ohio Wesleyan realquick because we've spent a lot of time
on your alma mater before we getto the documentary that you're working on.

(34:29):
Yeah, so you know you touchedon it. This is the sixth year
of the program. You're in yoursecond year there. Coach Paul Reid came
over where he was the head coachpreviously at another Division three school, Alfred
State, that had gone through atransition from Junior college two NCAA Division three
and he wrestled at co so he'sgot that Division three background and has some
ties with with your coach, CoachGibbs at Baldwin Wallace when you know both

(34:52):
were at co But you know,what's it like getting into coaching? What
drove you to coaching? And whywas Ohio Wesleyan the fit for you to
start your coaching for sure? Uh? Yeah? So, like I said,
I think I always had in theback of my mind that I wanted
to get into it, but Ialso wanted to use my degree. I
mean, that's what got me towhere I want the way marketing and finance.

(35:13):
And then I got my MBA,a one year MBA program I had.
So I did that during my fifthyear, which oddly enough was a
lot of work, but it reallyworked with the YouTube channel because I only
had classes on Mondays and then therest of the week was just get the
work done and then work on YouTube. So and then wrestle. So I
loved it that fifth Oh yeah andwrestle. Yeah, let's just add that
to it. Yeah. Yeah,I don't know, I love that year.

(35:37):
I still smile about it now.But but yeah, so Ohio Wesleyan
getting into coaching and everything like that. I actually moved down here to work
at Rudus, which is in Marysville, Ohio. So about thirty minute drive
through some back roads, uh andeverything. And I just got a call
randomly from from coach read uh sayingwhat's up and seeing if I wanted to

(35:58):
help out and coach and stuff likethat. And their current assistant just left.
And he wasn't even offering me theassistant job. He just wanted to
know if I wanted to come inand help and stuff like that. And
one thing led to another. Iwas came in like one or two mornings
a week, got to meet theguys, got to go to some like
team barbecues and stuff before the seasonstarted, and really clicked with the guys.

(36:19):
And the biggest thing about Ohio Wesleyanis I just saw a lot of
stuff that reminded me of my almamater, just a lot younger program wise,
and just to be honest, likea big culture shock, like right
when I fully stepped on. Imean, I'll get to it a little
bit. The biggest push was justculture. And that's the biggest thing I'm
proud of the guys right now,is they bought into our culture and what

(36:39):
we're what we're pushing, and it'sjust made a big difference with attitude and
effort, which is the top pillarsof our team and it's really awesome,
but just to rewind a little bit. So then I started like almost every
morning I was coming in, gettingindividuals in, going to the morning practice
and then driving over to Rutus andworking. And that's also when I took

(36:59):
a break from YouTube, because Iwas getting up at like five thirty in
the morning, going and wrestling,working a sales job during busy season,
I might add, and then tryingto do YouTube stuff and was trying to
propose to my lady and it wasjust a lot. So I took a
break from YouTube for like a year, and to be honest, I don't
really regret that at all because forone year I got to become just a

(37:20):
fan again. It wasn't like stressfulby any means. And then after a
while, I think it was duringChristmas, my fiance was just looking at
me and I could tell she wasabout to say something, and she was
like, Hey, if if youwant to leave Rudis to go pursue your
coaching dreams, I want you todo it, even though it's a huge,
huge pay cut and stuff like that. And I was like, yeah,

(37:45):
like I don't even know how youknew that's what I wanted to do,
but she must just saw how stressedI was and how much getting up
at five thirty I was smiling,couldn't wait to wrestle, and then just
after a long day. And Ilove my time at rudis loved. All
the people there make a great product. But coaching is just what I want
to do, and I love it, love every second of it. Haven't
regretted my decisions since. And thenonce I got into it, I realized

(38:07):
it's it's still a really really hardjob. Recruiting's NonStop, trying to develop
guys NonStop and just keeping guys believingin themselves. But now I really love
it and very grateful to be hereand hopefully be here for a lot for
a lot more years, because,like I said, I just see something
really really special in Ohio Wesleyan.The culture's coming, man, It's it's
really really it's really getting up there. And the recruiting class for next year

(38:30):
is shaping out to be really good. Already. We put a lot of
time in just to get a littlebit more competition in the room. We
don't really master recru here, justbecause the academics here are really top notch.
So if we're not bringing in theright dudes, it's we don't like
to lose people. So but overall, like really grateful to be here,
really excited to see the culture keepgrowing, which is which is all because

(38:52):
of the guys. And again justdeveloping guys all day, talking to wrestlers
on the phone, trying to getthem to believe in your program. I
mean, how do you beat that? I mean, I love it.
Yeah, And with with Ohio Wesley, you know Division three wrestling at Ohio
there's a lot of competition and it'sa deep wrestling state. So it's not
just you know, okay, wegot to get guys in. You came
over, you know, from Ohio, from from Pennsylvania. But you know,

(39:15):
you look at the programs you'll berecruiting against. Of course, you're
alma mater, which you know yourave about. But then you got you
know, John Carroll's got a strongtradition, Mount Union's got a strong tradition.
You know, Ron Beechler is aninstitution at Ohio Northern. And then
you know you've got programs that arecoming from the ether rising up. You
know, Wilmington got its first winin like a decade and change this year
Chris Basford trying to bring that programback from the dead. And you know,

(39:36):
you've got the competitive situation recruiting againstother schools and then you've got the
D two's d d ones in Ohio. But you also have a situation where
you guys don't have that alumni basewhere the guys that wrestled at bw or
or Mount Union that are in thehigh school situation, Yeah I wrestled here,
go here. How hard is itto recruit in a place that doesn't
really have any type of alumni baseand put that marketing degree to work to

(40:00):
the program. And sometimes you haveto get over that faith based element for
some case because people see Wesley inthe name, You're like, oh am,
I gonna be going to church allthe time. They have these preconceived
notions about what a faith based institutionis with a name like you know,
Ohio Wesley, and you're you're gonnahave to approach that as well. So
how have you had ted tried totackle those challenges with coach Reid? Yeah,
for sure, And yeah, thealumni thing is definitely the hardest thing

(40:22):
to get around. Like, tobe honest with you. I tell recruits
straight up when they're looking at likethe Ohio northerns Balda Wallace is. We
were in the same conference with wabAsh, so we get a couple of
those kids too. I say,I love it, man, Like I
say, that's straight too. I'mlike, I love the competition. I
know if you're looking at that program, you want to win. And I'll
tell you what, man, ourcultures, our culture is starting to arrival

(40:43):
theirs, and now it's just knockingdown the next couple of dominoes and it
takes time. But so I lovethat part of it. But the alumni
part is hard. I know,we lost a couple guys just because there's
BW alumni coaches all throughout high schoolsand it's hard when they're preaching the school
you're going up against every single day. But it will come. It will
come with just keep bat and keepfinding the right kids, right fits for

(41:06):
the program and it will be allright and everything like that. And then
the religious side of it, we'reactually we were affiliated with the Protestant religion,
but for some reason that fell off, like before Coach Reid was even
here. Not really sure why.So for anyone listening. We're not like
I mean, if you're a religiousbased you can find anything here and and

(41:29):
be pretty faith based with it.But if you're not, that's not a
worry either. It's not like crazyor anything here. I don't want to
be disrespectful anything, but it's notlike I won't even name some schools,
but it's Yeah, So whatever yourfaith is, it's easy to find it
here, which is which is aplus. Now working before we get the

(41:51):
last thing, before we get intothe the the the the general point of
our discussion day is what's it beenlike working with coach read What's what does
he bring to the table for youas a coach and for him as a
mentor? Oh no, it's awesome. We click really well. One thing
when Iver I'm giving my little uhlike speeches to recruit on why I quit
a full time job at paid doubleto come work here, is I talk

(42:14):
about the culture and what I loveseeing in the school and everything like that.
But honestly, uh, Coach Reedand I just click really well together.
I don't really know how to describeit. Maybe it's because we're both
I mean, he's at this point, he's been in the game almost like
fifteen years he's going to be twentyhopefully by the time we're really cooking and
everything. But uh, and stufflike that. But maybe it's just because

(42:36):
he is a little younger compared tosome other greats and D three wrestling right
now. But we just really clickedtogether. We have same values. And
the biggest thing, to be honestis if there's something that I say that
I think we should try, ifhe really agrees with it, he's all
in. If he's if he ifhe on it, he'll tell me maybe
we should wait a little bit.And uh, if he thinks it's not

(42:57):
gonna help, he'll tell me.Or I know there's some coaches that will
kind of be like, yeah,like let's regroup and just keep pushing it
off. Coach Reid will let meknow if what I think I'm doing for
a certain individual or the team isis good bad, or let's let's try
it out, let's see it.Because he understands I'm a young guy and
came from came from something that wecan work off of, and stuff like

(43:20):
that. But we just work reallywell together. We're best friends. He's
in my wedding and stuff like that. And yeah, the only thing I
will say is he has some neckproblems right now, and every day say
he's gotta gotta get that figured out, because I hear all these stories,
like, I'm we have a coupleother volunteers, but I'm in with a
lot of the guys anywhere from twentyfive up to eighty four. So I'm

(43:40):
feeling pretty sore right about now inthe season. But it's good. I
mean, that's a good, goodproblem to have when you have too many
guys wanting to wrestle you. ButI hear all these stories about how Coach
Red just is like mos through guysand all this stuff and has some slick
stuff, and I tell him,like, dude, you got to get
your neck figured out so you canget you back on the mat and and
uh working with these dudes. Butuh, he's just really good at what

(44:04):
he does too, not just thewrestling stuff, technician and everything, which
I love. He's Uh, he'sjust good at all of the team management.
No one to push guys, noone to pull it back, and
he's big on experiment. And twoif we have to, he's not stuck
in his way. So we justwe just really really work together and I'm
again, I'm just blessed that he'sthe first coach I get to be under,

(44:25):
hopefully for a while. Like Ikeep saying, well, as we
get closer to the postseason, Imean, the the ANAI Regionals have been
done, their qualifiers are coming out. D three Regionals are coming up here
soon, uh you know, andthen of course we've got the postseason with
a lot of national tournaments. Thejunior college feels also set. So h

(44:45):
when it comes to what you've gotin the mix, you you talked about
your YouTube background and you're being acontent creator. You've got a documentary you're
setting and release the week of aDivision one championship, So what's it about?
What went into it? And uh, you know what are you really
looking to accomplish with it? Yeah? For sure. So I don't remember
when the idea really came ever since, Like Kyle Dake versus David Taylor,

(45:07):
I've always just been obsessed with theNCAA tournament. When I found out they
showed every single round, every singlematch. As a middle school, high
school or whatever age I was in, I was like, no way,
Like what that's crazy, and justkind of really really loved that tournament,
and then I was in college andit might be a little biased on why
I think it's the best national tournamentor along those lines. That's not really

(45:30):
what the documentary is ultimately about,but that Ohio State Penn State rivalry with
people don't notice, and that's whatthe whole documentary is about. Will rewind
a little bit. It so focusesaround the twenty eighteen National Tournament and basically
that season more change than none,focusing on the Penn State versus Ohio State

(45:50):
rivalry. And what people don't realizeis that rivalry was boiling for like twenty
since like twenty fourteen when Penn Statewon that crazy national title against Minnesota and
then red Shirt all those guys givenOhio State a chance to show people like
they could contend for a national titletoo, and they were right there.
And then as the years went on, these Penn State teams are getting crazier

(46:12):
and crazier, and you almost couldlike see it, especially when I went
to Ohio. You could see theseOhio State fans were just they were just
sick of Penn State, like theythere was a weird like hatred. I
don't think it's just the Ohio Statefans, right, yeah, yeah,
yeah, take a lot of collegewrestling, save the Keystone Staters or or
sick of state. Yeah yeah,no, I agree, Yeah, I

(46:36):
see it all over, but Idon't have an opinion, so you know,
keep going. Yeah, I think, uh, I think just being
immersed in Ohio is what what kindof did it? And seeing these Ohio
State fans, it really reminded meof their hate of Golden State because I
was in Cleveland, like the Cavsfans hated Golden State. It really reminded
me of that, and it wasjust a really hostile robbery. And I

(46:58):
know Iowa and Penn State really getinto it now, but there was just
something different about it. And leaninginto that twenty eighteen season, there was
just a lot of build up tothat national tournament that just it was almost
like every single weekend there was somethingthat added on to it. And then
as I was doing this YouTube channel, I did a couple like special videos
like when I got two K andone time I put up like a vote

(47:21):
if people wanted to see like arecap of the twenty eighteen tournament. I
started writing this script and I waslike, well, there's this and this
and that that could go into this, and ultimately I just said, you
know what I'm gonna I'm gonna makethis into a full, full thread documentary.
Make it a little different. Pullup interviews people haven't seen in a
long long time, find find clipsand stuff like that to really bring back

(47:42):
the memory and really show people thatthis National Tournament's more than just what happened
in these three days. It wasa build up that happened back when David
Taylor and ed Ruther Seniors it startedthat steamroll just a little bit and everything
like everything along those lines, andit's kind of like how I like to
think of it, like I'm surea lot of people have seen the Last

(48:02):
Dance. It's sort of like that. So it will cover twenty eighteen,
give an intro to that, andthen it will kind of rewind at twenty
fourteen, go back to like twentyeighteen, cover the duel of the century
between Penn State and Ohio State,rewind to previous years, and just kind
of keep building, building, buildingbuilding as the tension rises to that first
day of NCAAAS and then yeah againinto the climax of the film. But

(48:24):
yeah, I'm just really excited aboutit. I appreciate you letting me on
here to talk about it, Butultimately, it just covers the twenty eighteen
National Tournament, that whole season andthen the build up leading up to it.
And for those who don't know,I'm excited for them to find out
in the finale. But I havea feeling a lot of people know what
happened, and I'm just excited toshare it, share it with people,

(48:45):
and yeah, put a lot oftime into it. And yeah, Now,
so growing up in PA, wereyou a Penn State guy or you
know which college did you kind ofgravitate to as a high scorer. It
was a Penn State, but Iwas really close to Lehigh, so I'll
always have a love for Lehigh.Actually, in my most recent video,

(49:05):
I kind of just threw out arandom prediction that they'll finish top four.
They might need a certain twenty fiveto come out and wrestle with that way.
It's a little crazy anyway, butyeah, I know, a little
crazy, A little crazy. That'sthat's a lot crazy. Don't undersell that
one now. Uh, It's it'sit's interesting you talk about, you know,
that Dual of the Century, whattype of Uh you know what what

(49:25):
content? What what documentaries and things? You mentioned the last dance, which
was phenomenal. Uh for for thewrestling people that don't know anything outside of
wrestling, that's a basketball thing withwith his airness. So uh yeah,
if you like competition, I don'tcare what sport you are, I would
recommend check it out. And Itook that personally. So we go there
and uh and then so so youknow, where do you draw the inspiration

(49:47):
from? You know, Jim Gibbonsjust did this massive thing with the duel
with Iowa Iowa State back in theeighties, which I thought was was super
captivating. So where do you drawthat? Uh? That like that that
interest that desired to be like,yeah, this is why I wanted to
do this. And you know maybefrom the writing the back end, like
okay, what techniques work when writingthe script? Where where do I think
there's a hook here that I mayhave seen from another place and I think

(50:10):
this will work for this? Yeah, for sure. Like I said,
the last dance was just a bigone. I think how they did that
was really really great. How itwas because whenever I watched documentaries, I
criticize, like a few wrestling documentariesthat come out, Like I'm a really
big I love a Keeper of theFlame because in my mind, I don't

(50:32):
think you should really do a documentaryuntil like a couple of years have passed
from that event, and I get, like, you need clicks. I
understand that part of it, butlike I hate when like a guy does
really well, like at the SeniorOpen, and then all of a sudden
there's like a documentary about him,and I'm like, man, his career
is not even close to being overor something like. So I always love

(50:54):
when documentaries come in explain the topic. So a lot of thirty for thirty
do this, Like Keeper of theFlame is really good at it, and
it will kind of describe something andthen it will rewind to like a specific
year and just sort of build everythingup and give a little context, and
then it kind of jumps back intothe present time of the documentary that the

(51:15):
year they're highlighting, so for example, mine twenty eighteen. And yeah,
so Keeper of the Flame I've seenprobably about one hundred times, so that's
a big one. Last dance,The structure of it is probably a big
inspiration just how that rolled, andthen ultimately just my love for the NCA
Tournament since I've been watching it reallybeing a fan of it. At least

(51:37):
that twenty eighteen tournament was just insanedoing research for this, Like in the
script, I remember just writing downsome statistics for example, like Ohio State's
first round in the twenty eighteen tournament. You read that to anyone and you're
like, there's no way they're losing, Like it's because Pence the really didn't
have that creative a round compared topass. They're big guns, did their

(52:00):
things, but guys they needed towin, like Nick Lee got pinned,
for example, and Ohio State wentten for ten with bonus points left and
right from their big guns, andit was just like I remember being getting
ready to go to class just watchingthat round end and being like, man,
like, there's not there's not achance, like Penn State can come
back from this, and I don'tknow, it's it's crazy, it's it's

(52:22):
a wild ride. Yeah, sogo figure. It was an Ohio guy
that kind of helped take the wheelsoff of that one for Ohio State too.
And he didn't go to Ohio State. Some school in Kent, you
know, yeah, exactly, Noone saw that coming. Yeah, and
that's another thing with the twenty eighteentournament. It's primarily about that Penn State
Ohio State rivalry and my documentary IShine a little light. But if you

(52:45):
even go deeper, I mean,Yanni and Spencer Lee both started their freshman
years that year, the Kyle KnellStore, I mean was insane, like
you alluded to, Like, therewas just a lot that went into that
tournament that just steamrolled and kept gettingmore special and special. And if you
look at some of the Penn Stateguys and even Ohio State guys, they're

(53:06):
doing great things now on the seniorlevel so or fighting even So, Yeah,
I was just a special tournament inmy opinion, and I'm I'm sure
there'll be more to come. Well. And also, you know the piece
the Big Ten Network did on AnthonyKasar last week, you know that just
that's like that's out there. Sothis actually gives your doc a little bit,
you know, a little bit moreof a popular Like, Yeah,
I remember that because I remember walkingaround because that was when the Super Bowl

(53:30):
was up here in Minnesota and Ihad gotten media credentials for the media week,
so leading up to it, I'minterviewing NFL players at you know,
the Media Center was at the Mallof America. On who they had Penn
State or Ohio State. It wasone of those like what's this guy doing
asking wrestling questions? Well, that'swhat that week is for. Just get
all the goofy stuff out. Yeah. And then I remember walking through the
Mall of America seeing a guy We'rein a Penn State wrestling hoodie. And

(53:52):
when I see wrestling shirts, Ijust I'm that guy that's like, Okay,
find a way to start a conversationbecause I'll talk wrestling with Anybody's like,
who you got this weekend? Bigone? He's like, I don't
know. I think the Eagles.I'm like, no, no, no,
no, Penn State, Ohio State. He's like, oh, come
on, we don't have this.We don't have that. You know.
The couple guys were out and I'mlike, I don't know. I think
Penn State's got me. He's like, yeah, greaty, this is a

(54:12):
Penn State guy. Tell me you'recrazy because they were still gonna come out
and win that thing. But Ijust remember that that Super Bowl, like
I remember Steve Belichick from the Patriots, the you know, Bill Sudden,
the one of the defensive coaches.It's just like looking at me, like
get away from me. So I'mglad you kind of capture it because it
didn't seem like the Super Bowl thatyear was up to it. But you
know, that's a duel. Again, back to the point I was making

(54:35):
here is like that's one that Iremember because even some of the Penn State
faith weren't even thinking that that couldhappen. And then Anthony Kassar comes out
and does what you know, it'slike what a crazy you know, his
side story also adds a little bitmore context to it, even though you
know you've you've got other stuff thatyou're working on. So lastly, as
we move forward, you know,also, I guess this next question.

(54:57):
You grew up at Penn State,you know, Lehigh guy. Did you
move into Are you now an OhioState guy? Or you got to say
that because you live in Ohio now? No, not a chance, man.
I was wondering. You know,you set that up. You have
me kind of kind of wondering therefor a minute. Yeah. No,
And one thing I just thought abouttoo, is with the documentary and then
I'll kind of answer your talk alittle bit about your question. I mean

(55:19):
I kind of answered already. Butthe documentary, I mean, there's gonna
be points where people probably think I'ma little biased, but ultimately I really
just try to show just how greatthe tournament was, not really because one
team won over the other, thisperson won over that, just because you
don't see spectacles that happen at atwenty eighteen tournament all the time, in
my opinion, So hopefully people comeaway thinking it's unbiased. But I'm sure

(55:44):
people won't. But one thing Iwill say, Ohio State football not a
chance never never, never, neverwill I be. I don't say football
fan. Yeah, I'm surrounded bythem all the time and can't really stand
them. I'll say that right now. But not part of your recruiting pitch.
We'll cut this part out when you'rewhen you're selling it to that.
Yeah, you're going to the youknow, you go into a recruits house,

(56:06):
do you see a Buckeye flag?You're like, well, this is
a wasted trip. Yeah, weget a lot of those. Uh I
can swallow my tongue, man,But Ohio State wrestling, I mean,
for for a good bit there,they had a lot of PA dudes,
and I kind of learned that frommy dad. Like, yeah, we
love penn State and Lehi, don'tget me wrong, but if a Pennsylvania
guys doing well in the national scene, we're rooting for him. I mean

(56:29):
I trained with Sammy Sasso at acouple practices at Dark Knights and stuff like
that, and so Hart goes outto him and everything. It seems like
he's doing pretty dang good for whathappened, and uh, stuff like that,
and uh, we go to theCavelli Center a lot. My fiance's
dad has a season ticket, sowe go there a lot, and that
environment's pretty dang awesome. I'm notan Ohio State fan, but I love

(56:50):
good wrestling, So yeah, Iguess I'm like this a little bit with
wrestling, but it's got to bea PA guy, I guess. Yeah.
I've looked at the Cavelli cent Ihaven't been there yet, and it
seems like that place, the waythey have it set up for wrestling,
just seems perfect. It's almost fivethousand, it's it's intimate, it's got
a great buzz about it. Imean you can even see that through the

(57:12):
through the television screen. So Imean, what's it like being there?
Yeah, a perfect like story todescribe it as. We had really good
seats this year. We were kindof right by the Ohio State Tunnel.
But so obviously the my father inlaw is the season tickets, so and
his buddies want to come. Solike last year it was Penn State,
Ohio State, so we got ourown tickets and we got standing room.

(57:34):
Uh, it's so cool in there, Like even if you have standing room
tickets, it feels like you're justright there on the mat. It's not
like you have to squint to seeanything. Like, no matter where you
sit in the arena, it feelslike you're gonna get the same view,
same experience. And they put ona really good show too, So I
just love it. It's they puton a great show and it really shows
that they love wrestling there. Soit's awesome. I whenever you get the

(57:57):
chance, you got to try it. It's it's awesome, all right.
Before we get to we finish upwith the documentary chatter, Actually, where
where can people watch this? That'sthe one thing we need to do.
We're doing it the week of theNCAA Championships Division One for those who don't
know what's the address? Where canthey find the documentary that you're you're doing
on this twenty eighteen season. Forsure, it will be completely free on
YouTube, right on the True TanWrestling channel. I think that's only fair

(58:21):
because I feel like my fan baseis it's going to be the main supporters
for it, so I want themto just be used to it everything.
And I'll blast all of our socialmedia of course and have YouTube short stort
ready so it tries more traffic,but totally on True Tan Wrestling for free
on YouTube. All right, now, finishing up the conversation, we can
get back to the wrestling stuff becausethere's one thing that I always wonder and

(58:43):
you kind of touched on this,not directly, but I just you know,
the observancy of what the Division threeand Division two you know, world
is like when they're they're paying attentionto the Division one Championships, yet it's
D two, D three, nAI Junior College at a lot of that
coverage. You know, I've announcedthe ANAI and D three's for a number
of years, so I'm dialed intoit. But like to know that you're

(59:04):
rooting for what everybody else is watchingand you kind of want people to,
hey, come watch us too,what we're What's tough about that being a
fan of a sport that you knowthat a lot of people aren't watching us,
and you know it's it's hard toget that time time to change.
Yeah, for sure, Uh it'stough. And I mean, uh,
I kind of where I'm at nowis a YouTube channel. I'll probably never

(59:24):
cover D three or D two justbecause I'm too close to it. It
would almost feel kind of weird anda weird bias and everything. But yeah,
just to be honest, it's aweird feeling. I mean, everyone
the generic sport or generic wrestling fansonly really going to care about D one.
You kind of need someone in thatD three space to really realize how

(59:45):
awesome it really is. I thinkD three almost has more rivalries than the
Division one level, just because there'sso many schools. I mean, I
was an East Well Pennsylvania guy slashEast Coast, and you hear all these
rivalries from like that Virginia conference hereall that, like with Washington, Lee,
Fairham and stuff like that, andthen there's so many Pennsylvania D three's
where when you look back through brackets. You're like, wow, look at

(01:00:06):
that, like the rivalry between Wilkesand John Carroll, Like, who'd have
ever thought that was a thing.There's obviously the Battle of the Burgs and
stuff like that, but those arefun, those are so fun. Yeah.
Oh yeah, I couldn't make itthis year, so mad well,
I mean scheduling because I've got othersports that I'm doing now. But yeah,
like I'll say this Battle of theBurgs to your point, Another one
would be like look at like youknow, you know Washington and Jefferson and

(01:00:30):
Waynesburg. I mean those are WesternPA Division three schools that have been around,
They've got you know, centuries,it seems like of wrestling stuff.
I mean get national champs from frommost schools and such, so you know,
you know, look up in NewEngland, you know, you know
when Johnson Whales started their program andJohnson Wales, Rhode Island College, Roger
Williams all in there in Rhode Island. I mean it's it's it's crazy,
and there's pockets of it everywhere.So you know, in Ohio you've got

(01:00:52):
you know, especially you see alot with football here in Minnesota was the
Tommy Johnny game for a long time. Now that Saint Thomas is moving to
Division one in all sports, itdoesn't happen anymore. But yeah, those
D three rivalries, you know,it's one of those things that as a
sports fan, I would highly recommendchecking out because even if you have no
tie to whatever particular rivalry is,like Lafayette Lehigh would be a good example.
If you've get no tie to that, those those two schools go to

(01:01:14):
one of those matches or whether whetherit be a soccer game, a football
game, basketball game, when thoseschools meet up, it's like you know
it is it is a cat fight. Oh yeah, it's It's awesome.
And one thing we uh, weget a couple kids that not everyone's into
wrestling and follows every single division asmuch as like you or I or something

(01:01:35):
like that, but we get recruitsthere just like hey man, like,
what is the difference between D one, D two, D three and AI.
Like some kids just don't really know. They they're kind of just in
their own world and focusing on highschool and their divisions, and they aren't
the biggest fans of watching the highestlevel of sport, which is fine and
stuff like that, and what wealways preach at Ohio Wesden. It's kind

(01:01:58):
of goes with it is we're justkind of a wrestling program. And what
I'm what I'm getting at that isthere's Division three wrestlers that can very much
compete at all three levels and they'rejust picking a school that's the best fit
for them. So I think moretimes out of none, there's a lot
of D three athletes that could goother divisions. They just picked that institution
because it's the best fit for them. And when you have a lot of

(01:02:20):
athletes like that, you get alot of dudes who are really really awesome
at the sport. And if yougo to the Division three National tournament,
you get a lot of the samefeels as the D one National tournament.
There's first round upsets, there's I'dargue there's more Number one. It is
so much who's the one seed that'sgoing down this year? It's gonna happen,
Like I remember, was it theyear Wabash lost by a point to

(01:02:42):
Wartburg and it was like it wasit was their one seed at heavyweight two
and Q and it's like it's likeyeah, and I hate to call that
guy out specifically, but I rememberit was one year was the number one
seed for mal Union the heavyweight.Then one year the number two seed from
Johnson, Wales went lost the pigtail. He was undefeated, got TechEd in
the first pigtail match. He wasout before the march, he was out

(01:03:02):
before the parade. Here, it'slike we've got the one seed gets beaten.
It was in Cleveland. It wasthe one seed gets beat in the
first round. The next match thesame at the one seed at the next
weight gets beat. It's like thathappened the first ten minutes. So you
know you don't have to you know, if you've heard me well enough,
you know I'm going to sell theDivision three tournam because it's freaking crazy.

(01:03:23):
Inn Ai is getting to that pointtoo, but like like it's just so
much fun and now it's got tobe nerve wracking as a coach. But
looking to get you guys your firstqualifier this year. You know what going
into the regionals. You know,for those that don't know about the Division
three and where you guys are situated, what's the perspectives for your postseason as
far as you know, guys withchances to go to regionals? So what

(01:03:44):
are you looking forward to and togetting guys to go to lacrosse this year?
Yeah. For those who don't know, I mean we're a young program
and we've never had a national qualifieryet, but every year if you look
back, we've just gotten better andbetter, which at this level, if
you see that, we know programsdoing something right. And especially this year,
we really bought into the culture.I think we were out of our

(01:04:06):
regional We had twenty one twenty twoteams, and I think we were always
finishing like eighteenth, nineteenth through eighteenththe first three years, and COVID happened
having a really good regional qualifier ora regional placer under coach Reid. And
then this past year we finished topten in our regional, which there's some

(01:04:26):
really really tough teams to be finishedin top ten at three regional placers.
One was a freshman, one guyended his season as our first ever multiple
time regional placer, and then asophomore who's really young and looking to crack
to across this season and everything likethat. But we just got a really
young team of guys who put alot of time in the off season and
right now is just getting getting thoseguys healthy. One adjustment we're going to

(01:04:50):
be making moving forward is just lastyear we were a young team, so
we had a lot of dudes whocompeted a lot, like in a lot
of competitions, but didn't get alot of matches just because they were young
in experience. Like one of ourbest freshmen, there were some tournaments you
just went oh and two at andlooked great. It's just kind of weird
how that falls sometimes. And thisyear he's placed on every single tournament,

(01:05:12):
but he's also getting a little dingedup more just because his match count got
so high. So we're just makingthose adjustments moving forward, but we're looking
to get higher than tenth place.I know I'm coming into this season.
Our guys had a lot of reallyreally high goals and some of our guys
are just gonna have to outperform theirseat and we fully believe they can do
it, and just based on thepractice yesterday, I think they're just ready.

(01:05:32):
Man, last year, I thinkexpectations were pretty low, if I'm
being honest. For the program,and when we were young, it's fine,
but like the guys that were goodjust put a lot of pressure on
themselves and those same guys, Likethe expectations are a lot higher, like
everyone's like, let's see if thiswas in my mind, I'm like people
are probably seeing like, oh,is this a fluke last year? Like

(01:05:54):
how did Ohio Wesley and do whatthey did taking top ten in this tough
regional And the guys who were nervouslast year just ready to go. They've
been there, they're ready to competeand they want to make history for us,
and yeah, just bring home hard. We're not just from the regional
tournament but also nationals. So it'sjust fun. And at the end of
the day, if we don't dowhat we went out to, I know

(01:06:15):
the guys put in a great,great work and we're gonna keep getting better
and it will be all right.We'll be okay as a program. So
so I could go I know,I can ramble but about Ohio Wesley and
our culture. Man, I couldgo on forever. But yeah, and
information on Ohio Wesley and Battlingbishops dotcom. You can get information there about
coach Reading, coach mceew, what'sgoing on. The NCAA Division three Central

(01:06:38):
Regional is at Ohio Northern this yearMarch first and second. Top three in
the region qualify eighteen man brackets andDivision two and Division three. In case
you're unaware, True Tan Wrestling atYouTube, checking out the documentary coming up
on the twenty eighteen Ohio State PennState Rivalry Tanner. Been good catching up,
good talking, and good good understandingwhere the genesis of True Tan Wrestling

(01:06:58):
came from and your your in wrestlingand coaching journey for sure. Thanks for
having me and uh yeah, justappreciate it all right, It's all we
got for the Short Time Wrestling Podcasttoday has always I'd like to thank you
for spending your time with me,because you've always got time for Short Time.
The Short Time Wrestling Podcast is proudlyoutfitted by Compound Sportswear, Shirt Singlet's

(01:07:24):
custom gear orders everything you need Callup Cliff and the crew at cmpteamware dot com