Exploring the new Iron Maidens documentary with filmmaker Tony Melanson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Whoa, and welcome back wrestling fans to these short time
wrestling podcast. I am your host, Hall of Fame wrestling writer,

(00:24):
broadcaster and announcer Jason Bryant. Today on the show talking
with Tony Mellinson. He put together the Iron Maidens documentary
that has just hit Amazon Prime Video. Be talking all
about that. This is going to be a very short
intro today because I got two things to talk to
you about. One matt talk online dot com slash News
that is my substack daily wrestling news newsletter that is

(00:46):
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(01:07):
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(02:30):
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(02:51):
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Thank you for your years of support. That's really been

(03:14):
really grateful. For that that being said, here we go
Tony Melinson. First, we're going to kick up that trailer
for Iron Maidens Wrestling for Glory, a new wrestling documentary
out on Amazon Prime Video. But first, I'd always like
to thank you for spending your time with me, because
you've always got time for short time.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Once they saw as.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Wrestling, I think they were shocked to see.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
How good that we were. Nothing outside of the matt mattered.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
For over thirty years, high school girls from around the
country struggled to be accepted in the wrestling room and
at competitions they had to join boys' teams and compete
against them. This had to.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Change, so this will be the first time girls will
have a chance to win a pia A title in
the table to media.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Ever, it is overwhelming. I feel like think about that
like this.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Is my last year.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Well right, looking for the parent whoever's out there I
can take.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
And then Weds Days with the best, We're goins. We're
gonna win together on forty eight one with you five.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
In March of twenty twenty, there were zero girls tapes.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
We had to build this.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
And there are people out there that are still not
happy that girls are in this sport.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
There'll be no pain. You won't remember that, but you'll
remember that a battle around you.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
That I probably did have some fears about becoming a wrestler.
Good day Ship, and I.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Woke up this morning.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
I was like, oh, I have black I know sometimes
you want to see that.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Loss because now I need to work. I need to
work a little bit hard. I made her twice.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
She plays wrestling will test your mind and body for
most of all, your will to do whatever it takes
to win. And now it's the girls, let's get out
for you.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
And there you just saw and heard the trailer for
Iron Maidens Wrestling for Glory. Today on the Short Time
Wrestling Podcast, we're gonna be talking with the brainchild behind this,
Tony Mellinson of the documentary which you may have seen
stuff about this on social already. Kyle Klingman from Flow
Sports just did an interview with the two key players
in the movie, Avery and Lena, and first of all,

(05:53):
Tony one, welcome to the show, and I'm really excited
to talk about this film.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
I'm real happy to be here and just delighted to
be in the wrestling community and telling this story that
I think is meaningful for so many people in the
wrestling community, and certainly women and girls.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, and before we started the show, we were talking
a little bit about background and things like that, and
you had said, you've got the water polo background. So
are you coming into this sport as somebody from the
outside or you know, what was the wrestling background? What
was the tide to wrestling that brought this story to
you to your plate?

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, completely from the outside. You know. The the genesis
of the story is I had known Lena for a
long time. They are family friends, and I realized that
what she was experiencing was really pretty special. She started
wrestling before, you know, after the girls team started in

(06:50):
twenty twenty for North Alleghany, and I, you know, I
kind of kept track of what was happening in her development.
And I had finished a water polo documentary and I
was looking for my next story, and I thought back
to this experience that Lena was having, and I thought,
you know, this is this is historical. You know, it's
it's a historic event for women's sports and certainly for

(07:14):
uh for individual and individual like Lena, And you know,
I just went after and I approached the Rumpler family
started with parents and said, hey, you know, I think
there's a story here. If if this all goes the
way you guys think it might go, we definitely have
a story. And even if it doesn't go the way
you think it's going to go, there's a story here.

(07:35):
So that was my introduction, and I just got started
with with Lena and then met Avery, uh and the
two of them were close friends, and we just went
from there.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Was it something that struck you as as odd that
in an individual sport you have combatants that are friendly
like that.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
The day, you know, we went to shoot that at Butler,
I hadn't yet met Avery, and I saw the match
between Lena and Avery, and you know, they hugged when
they got off the mat, and you know, Avery hat
pin Lane in forty six seconds, and I thought, what
is this? You know, they're hugging and they're embracing each other,

(08:17):
and you know the girl just you know, we're kind
of racked her. And so I thought that was very unusual.
And then I met them both in the cafeteria and
we spoke afterwards where you see that scene with the
two of them talking about their ambitions and their dreams,
and I thought this is really really interesting and really

(08:37):
going to be a good story. So yeah, I did
think it was very very odd to begin with.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
So let's back it up a little bit in terms
of what got you into documentary filmmaking and things of
that nature, because as we spoke before we started, it's
like I've consumed wrestling, documentary, wrestling movie, everything there is
to find about this stuff. I'm kind of a junkie
for it. And Kyle Klingman, who you did the interview
with Flow Sports also is he's in the same vein
when we look at this stuff and you know things

(09:04):
that when we go into a story and we don't
know it, that's when I'm the most enthralled because these
are not two athletes I had heard of avery based
on the national rankings and following high school wrestling at
least that in arms reach nationally. But we sit there
and I look at this is not you're not focusing
in on superstars nationally. This is not number one and
number two. This is this is a local story that

(09:26):
has a big state implication but also has national implications.
So when when you when you sit there and look
at one documentary filmmaking, how do you get into it
and what kind of peaud your interest in stories like this.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, you know, I started for for a long time.
I've been behind the camera and you know, photography, producing videos,
and then it just it occurred to me that the struggle, right,
the athletics struggle, has an in built story, and being
able to tell that in a way that's you know,

(09:59):
more than when and losing, I think has value and
I'm very interested in digging into that story and finding
where the true essence of the of the desire comes
from and what their why is and how they go
about it. And I think that's what people connect with
more than the winning and the losing. And so that

(10:21):
led me to really get serious about this particular documentary.
And I've worked with an executive producer, Nigel Levy, who's
out of London as my executive producer. Helped me approach
the story construction and a very methodol of you know,
very structured way through a system that he has developed.

(10:43):
He was the original editor of the F one Drive
to Survive series, the very first F one Drive to
Survive series, so he's worked at the highest level of
broadcast and documentary production and you know, working with him
was you know, we were able to create a story
that you know, we're very confident no one, no matter

(11:04):
what happened, win or lose, or however they advanced. Uh,
there was going to be a story here because there's
there's a couple of things going on in this film, right.
There's the story of Lena and Avery and how they
go through the season and how they approach it and
who they are as people and how that approach you know,
ends up you know, winning losing, and how you know
how it ends. And then the second you know, big

(11:26):
part of the story is sort of the backdrop of
women's wrestling in Pennsylvania. Uh, the the legacy and the
history and the long running tradition of wrestling in Pennsylvania
and then what it took for that state to then
finally sanction the girls' sport. And that's sort of the
back you know, the background of the story. So these
two things are happening simultaneously, which you know takes a

(11:50):
degree of stitching to put the put all that together. Uh.
And and that's you know, my passion is to to
bring a story to gather that is you know, rich
and meaningful for both characters and for sort of an
overall story.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, I'm looking at the timeline of this, and this
is the twenty twenty fourth season. We are here in,
you know, the twenty five to twenty sixth season. These
things take time to put together, especially with video, and
I look at the runtime, fifty five minutes, you know,
for full disclosure, I watched it about an hour and
a half before we did the interview, because again you
reached out about a week ago. You know, lives are busy.

(12:29):
I sat down, how much am I going to have? Times? Like,
I was worried about it being too long before we
did It's like fifty five minutes and I sat there,
you know, I wanted more, obviously, but at the same
point it wasn't too long. It didn't the story didn't
bog down. It was good pace. So when it comes
to that cutting room floor again we were talking earlier
before we start about an analysis by or paralysis by analysis. Yeah,

(12:52):
that's the term, like when you want something to be
absolutely perfect when making the decision on what to show.
I'm sure there's a lot more backstory, and then you
could have probably fulled this could have been three four
hours at minimum in some cases, but editing yourself and
editing the film to be something that is pertinent, relevant
but also easily consumable. How hard is it to juggle

(13:13):
all of those factors.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
It's not only is it hard, but it can be heartbreaking.
You know, there's more. There were more characters that I
followed in this story than than what you see in
the finished product. And you know, at Anna Malovich, I
followed her for the entire season, and she's a wonderful wrestler,
very accomplished, and she was a really, you know, a

(13:37):
great person to work with. And the story of Lena
and Avery just made this come alive, and it was
so strong that as I was building it, my biggest
regret is, you know, how can I how can I
continue to include these other characters and fold all of
their stories into this. I want to include everybody, but
you can't in the end because you're you know, the viewer.

(13:59):
You have to you have to cater to the viewer.
You have to cater to the story. And when you
have a strong story, you just you have to keep
honing that and honing it so so a it's it's
heartbreaking because you have you have material that you want
to show and then you have to decide how does
this tell the audience what you want to tell them.
So that's hard and it's a lot of work, you know,

(14:23):
hours and hours and hours of footage and trying to
decide like how much wrestling do you show? Right? How
much you know for the wrestling purist, right, you you
can't show an entire match through you know, many many
entire matches through the throughout the season, so you you
kind of have to weave in those moments and footage
that you have that that really helps the story, right,

(14:47):
and and when you're trying to explain the approach that
each wrestler takes, that footage needs to be representative, you know,
of that wrestler and who they are and what they're
all about. So it's it's the edit in a documentary
is is very challenging for sure, and it just takes

(15:08):
a ton of time. So we started we started in
twenty twenty three, of course, when the when the season
started for the twenty four Championship, and we you know,
worked with the girls and filmed them all the way
through the twenty four Championship and then my edit process
took me, you know, all the way through twenty four

(15:32):
and then we finally released it in April of twenty five,
so that the edit was nearly a year long.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
You know, there's a couple of things about these these
projects when dealing with age groups. Now you're dealing with
a group of high school aged students who typically aren't
media trained. They're not always comfortable with a reporter, you know,
sticking a recorder in their face or taking quotes. You know,
my years is working in a newspaper. Interviewing high school
girls is always one of the toughest assignments because, especially

(16:05):
in girls wrestling, they haven't been interviewed whereas the better
boys have been. And you know, by the time they're
senior their season, these two seems very natural went on
camera one of Obviously, with knowing Elena, you've got that
rapport with her, but how hard was it to build
that rapport with Avery and make her comfortable on camera
and them two together to tell this the story where

(16:25):
you know, when they decide to be in the same
way class you know, spoiler alert, I'm not gonna give
away the ending, obviously, but if you know results, you
already know what happened. But you know, to get them
comfortable with you especially the family that didn't know you.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Right. Yeah, as a you know, talking about it as
a documentary filmmaker, trust is you know everything, it's it's
it's paramount to my phonest rang just a second there
we go, it's paramount to the process. And with with

(16:59):
with Lena, even though we knew each other, she was
not comfortable being on camera, right, So that that takes time, right,
And I'm lurking around at matches and I've got a
camera and I you know, you have to keep your
distance too, right, and you want the athlete. So there's
two parts of this. One those sit down interviews right

(17:20):
where you're trying to elicit you know, real meaning from
what they are experiencing. And the second is being at
their match, right, and now they're conscious of you at
their match and you're filming them, and they want to
perform and you know all these things, and so those
are two very different dynamics. And the goal is that

(17:42):
you know, you you build a rapport and when you're
sitting down with them, you get them at ease and
then you just talk and eventually they forget the camera
is there. And the same thing is true in the matches.
You try to just melt into the you know, sort
of melt into the background. You use the proper gear,
the proper lenses. You're not up in their face. You're
trying to capture them in their essence. And they got

(18:05):
used to it. It wasn't right away, but they you know,
they did get used to it, and they actually do
a nice job talking about it in Kyle's Kyle's Interview.
If you if you listen to that one and your
viewers listen to that one. And there are times when
as a filmmaker you have to decide what you're keeping,
you know, because sometimes they'll say things like that are

(18:28):
really would be incredible on like oh my gosh, that's
that's controversial or that's dramatic or whatever, and you're like, okay,
hang on a second. They're going to live with this
the rest of their lives, and you know, you you
have to be conscious of how you handle the material
because they have to live with it the rest of
their lives. It's not just you know, as a filmmaker,

(18:50):
I want to put the stuff out there that I
want to put out. There's there's a real ethical part
of this and you have to strike the balance. And
even though there are moments in the film that are
that are raw and they are very personal. These were
moments that they all felt characterized their experience. And so
when you're dealing with a hard topic, but it characterizes

(19:14):
their experience and it's authentic and true, it works. But
when it becomes you know, gratuitous drama, then it doesn't work.
And so that's as you know, as a filmmaker, you
have to straddle that line too.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, this is a documentary. This is not reality TV,
which as we know, is really far from reality these days.
One of the other things that jumps out at you
right away is the voice you hear. If you're a
podcast nerder, you're into, you know, some of the more
popular shows. Jocko Willink is the voice of this thing.
And as a as a voiceover guy myself, that's what
I'm like, Oh, they got Jocko. There was one chance.

(19:51):
Leonard did The Price of Legacy down in Oklahoma a
couple of years ago and had Trace Atkins as the
voice there. And I'm like, oh, so, how do you
get a hold of Jacko? How does he say yes
to this project?

Speaker 2 (20:03):
You know? The short answer is I asked him, But
let me I'll give you the longer.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
You know, getting a hold of a guy like Jocko
is not so Now. He's also been a very very
big proponent advocate of wrestling over the years too, So
obviously there's that tie to it.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yes, he has. And I saw that. I know, I
was looking for a narrator. I had asked a very
prominent A list celebrity, and you know, we spoke with
the agent and went back and forth, and that wasn't
going to work out. And it turns out it was
the best thing that it didn't because you know, Jocko

(20:36):
is he represents you know, he represents something very important
I think to the wrestling community. Uh, and that is
the resilience, right is the discipline and the resilience and
and the willingness to do difficult things. And you know,
obviously his daughter's wrestle. His younger daughter still wrestling in

(20:57):
high school. His older daughter is very acomplished Brazilian jiu
jitsu fighter. And when I saw that, I thought, you
know this, this this is actually kind of a perfect
fit from my perspective. Now, would he be willing to
tell the story? I don't know. So as it turns out,
he was willing to do the story. He was terrific
to work with, very efficient as you can well imagine,

(21:18):
and you know, I felt, you know, one of the
one of the decisions that you have to make is
do I have a you know, a female voice or
do I have a male voice? And I decided to
have a male voice because I wanted I wanted the
film to be this inclusive type of story where it
was like, you know, the men were supporting the women,

(21:40):
the women were supporting you know, the women, and the
whole thing was growing because of you know, all of
the you know, all of the effort and all of
the support. And I thought that it would be interesting
to have a male voice because it lends that layer
of support to the story, and you know, just super
happy Jocko decided to do it.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
You talk about that male voice. There are two prominent
male voices within this story. They are the head coaches
at North Alleghany Dan Heckert and at Hickory Eric Mount.
And people know North Alleghany Jake, Herbert Ray Brindser the
moors like it is when you hear North Alleghany wrestling.
I mean, it is one of the staples of the
whipul just historically. So you've got a prominent program, You've

(22:28):
got a school that's a co op with you know,
we're at Mercer, we're coaching at Hickory. We've got these
two dynamics coming together. But then you have two men.
And there's a point in the documentary where you talk
to Eric Mount about his state champion and then Dan
Heckert you see the possibility of the state champion, and
they both get very emotional about the topic. And again

(22:51):
you've got men coaching girls in this situation, which is
again that overarching thing is these are women breaking down
barriers in what has been a male sport for generations.
Uh well, talk about that dynamic and how that kind
of blossomed into its own story and its own narrative.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, they were both terrific to work with. You know,
I spent a little more time with Dan in the
beginning and more time with Eric and the end of
my production. But you could you could tell how much
it mattered to them, and you could tell that they
wanted to help their girl win for their girl, right

(23:30):
They they wanted their girl win to win for them,
and in the end it did mean a lot. Each
one of them to experience, you know, that championship, right that,
as Eric says, he was able to experience something that
he wasn't able to experience himself as a wrestler. And

(23:53):
you know, being part of you know, that historic event
and being part of wrestling in the Giant Center, you know,
it just meant the world to him, and it comes
out in the film, I think, really beautifully. And you know,
again these are choices. How much of that? How much
of that interview do you expose? Right? And I remember

(24:16):
I remember just a little inside of filmmaking here, you know,
I remember interviewing Eric and he said, hey, are you
going to put that part in when you know when
I'm crying? And I said, well, not all of it,
not all of it, but I'm going to put enough
of it in so that people know what it really
means to you. Because if they don't know what it

(24:38):
means to you, they don't know what the story means.
And so I think hopefully the viewer will think that
it's it's just enough, and I think Eric.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Does circling back to the you know, the story within
a story, like you you start things out. I go
back to the Lehigh documentary you know, almost twenty years ago,
John Traine and Veritas. It was supposed to be about,
you know, Howie Miller was following around the Lehigh program,
and then John Trend's story just pulled itself out and
that became the focal point, that became the story that

(25:08):
came out of a greater idea. As you go through this,
you've got a research you say, you're coming into wrestling
kind of blind, having just kind of a you know,
an arms reach association with it based on the relationship
with the Rumplers. But you know, doing the research, you
talk to Brooks Zoomas at Sanctioned PA, you dig into
the history on the PA State Championships on PCN. You

(25:29):
you have to start doing your own research. What did
you find out about the sport of wrestling in Pennsylvania
and maybe as a whole that you weren't aware of
prior to starting this project.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
You know, I think are people are ready to help you.
You know, if you reach out and you are respectful
to the sport and you want the best for the
wrestlers and for the coaches and for the sport, people
can see that and they will, you know, metaphorically, bend

(26:02):
Over backwards to to to help you. And that's what
I found, you know, especially you know in Pennsylvania the
p I double A. You know, there was no way
I was going to do this without the PI double
A support. Absolutely was not going to happen. They were
extremely supportive.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
You know.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Brooke was an incredible source of of history as well
as leadership, explaining how everything played out, and again super
super willing and super helpful. You know, I have to
thank Tom Elling in the background for some of that footage.
Tom had a couple of reels of sixteen millimeter film

(26:42):
and he said, hey, I've got I've got this archive footage.
I don't have it digitized. I said, well, i'll tell
you what. I'll digitize it for you if you let
me use the footage, and I'll send you the digital
footage that that we digitized. And he was super excited
to get that footage digitized. And some of that is
is in the film from you know, from the fifties
from Clearfield and and you know, there's some just really

(27:05):
good historical stuff in there. It's small, it's just it's
bite sized material, but it gives the bigger picture, right
the total context of what this means in Pennsylvania because
if you if you miss that, you don't really understand
the significance of what happens in terms of, you know,
what the what the girls are now experiencing and and

(27:25):
and how things are changing. So it was really what
surprised me and what delighted me was just the willingness
for people to rally around this and to help.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Looking at your own background with the water polo, a
niche sport, you know, it's big in this in the
Southwest part. You know, you look at the NCAA champions there,
they're all pretty you know, all California and Arizona, the
places where it's warm and you're in the pool a
lot of the time. What about your experience from water
polo maybe help with wrestling. Knowing that this is not
a mainstream audience, that that you're you're aiming this too.

(27:58):
I mean you have to shoot to niche sport for
a mainstream audience, is what I mean. So, yeah, that,
you know, being a niche sport, being one that fights
for any type of coverage they can. How did that
help in the process.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, Well, a couple of things. First of all, as
it relates to you know, the way wrestling is in
Pennsylvania is like water polo and California. I mean, it's
it's a real thing in Pennsylvania. So that's the good news, right.
I had a lot of people around me that can,
you know, keep me honest so to speak, you know.
But the other thing that I think is important for

(28:33):
a niche sport and anything in a documentary field is
it has to be clear, you know, as as as
the viewer. Right, if you want this to appeal to
a non wrestling audience, you know, there has to be
a bigger story. It can't just be It can't just
be wrestling, right, It can't just be the action of wrestling.
There has to be something human that underlies this and

(28:56):
some universal truths and some universal stories, which I think
is the docum Meori has. But it also has to
be super clear. So like when somebody is watching the
match at some point in the very beginning of the film,
you have to kind of explain how wrestling works. And
then as wrestlers are moving through the process, you have
to explain like, okay, wait a second, how how does

(29:17):
all those qualifying work and the way classes work? And
it can't be laborious but it has to be on
the nose clear that way people can really enjoy the film.
And so as a as a niche sport, you have
to make sure that that's super clear. You know, if
it's American football, maybe not so much, or American you know, baseball,

(29:38):
maybe not so much. But something like wrestling, you know,
there's there's a lot of intricate little rules and well,
why did they advance and how is that a point?
And how is that not a point? And how you know,
why did they score there and what happened? And you
have to make it clear so a viewer can really
enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Is that tough to balance with, you know, the wrestling junkie,
like the people that are watch this for the wrestling
and not feel like their intelligence has been insulted by
Great here we are again on national TV, and they're
trying to tell us the rules we already.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Know, right, Yeah, I don't worry about it too much
as long as it's not you don't belabor it, because
it's like bang, you hit it, and then you and
you move on. And I think once somebody gets to
the end of the film and they realize what they
just watched, they realized they didn't just watch a film

(30:31):
about wrestling or a film of wrestling. They watch something bigger,
and so when that happens, they kind of forget about
the you know, they kind of forget about these details
and they're just like, yah, well they had to explain
that so that somebody else that doesn't understand wrestling gets it.
And when you're thinking about producing a documentary that's trying

(30:52):
to tell a story of a historic event that deserves
to be told, I think people watching it will say, Okay,
if this is going to be seen by non wrestling people,
we want it to be seen by non wrestling people.
And so it kind of has to go this way,
and you know, the details are quick, they're sort of precise,
and we just move on. In fact, you know, Jock

(31:15):
Goo shares a lot of that and his you know,
narration voiceover. We used voiceover in these areas so that
it goes quickly and clearly.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, there's also a moment where again I'm not just
spoiling it, but again, if you know, if you've looked
at the results and you know what's going on, you
know what's happened. But where the athletes are explaining the
scoring sequence, in their own words. And you know what,
in a match that may have not had it. It
wasn't a fifteen fourteen kind of match. So you've got
the athletes doing that work for you too, So it

(31:45):
gives you content there as far as distribution goes, this
is on Prime video. You know, it was really easy
to search Iron Maidens. You have to get through the
Bruce Dickinson of the metal band Iron Maiden, which I
do like the reference point there as being. You know,
I kind of dig the eighties met hair metal back
growing up. But there you've got that kind of that

(32:05):
name the name before you can get the distribution. The
name implies toughness and grit, and you know, wrestling is
a sport where you thrash your opponent. It's got you
got some threat. So I mean a coming to the
genesis of the name right there? How did that pop
in your head? Are you an old metal head as well?

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Uh? Not so much. I mean, we we really tussled
over the name. I remember with my executive producer Nigel Levy.
You know, we we wrestled each other over the name,
and for a long time it was named something else.
I'll just leave it. Uh, you know, leave that to
be a mystery, and he just kept challenging me. He's like,
I'm not sure that's such a great name, not such

(32:42):
a great name. So we we kind of came up
with this one together and it really stuck. And I
think it suits the I think it suits the film.
And and you know, the film is part you know,
action right, part action story, so you know the way
that title is present and it is sort of an
action movie type of type of presentation, and there's very

(33:04):
much of an action movie, dramatic action movie feel to
this documentary. But there's also the truth and the backstory
and the meaning behind what is being you know, sort
of what's happening right in girls wrestling and the movement
and women's sports, and so it's not just you know,

(33:25):
what I love about it is it's not just the
sort of information about what happened. It's like this story
of action and like how is this going to end?
And I don't know how you felt about it, but
I hear from a lot of people they're like, oh man,
we just we wanted to know how it was going
to end. And I'm proud of I'm proud of that
aspect of it too.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
That's one thing too. I was again, I didn't. I mean,
I have the results of the PA State Tournament from
that year, but it's not like I've got them committed
to memory. And you know, I'd be honest with you,
if I scrolled past that result, I don't know if
i'd have remembered it, because there's you know, I think
there's sixteen thousand results of just placement matches across a
tournament across the twenty twenty four boys and girls. So

(34:05):
there's thousands of championship matches across every division. So I
can't say that I was, oh, I remember that. No,
I didn't. I didn't know this. I didn't know how
it was going to end. I didn't know that these
two had this relationship. So again, as somebody who's even
a wrestling junkie, I love the fact that this was
not name and I say this as from a national standpoint,
that these are not names that were jumping out, Oh

(34:28):
this is a Jordan Burrows Kyle Dak documentary. No dis
I mean, we know that Flow is going to crush those,
but this is something that's you know, under the radars.
It's like WHOA I was generally enthralled with this, and
I think the wrestling community will be at large as well.
Going back to the Iron one last thing about the
Iron Maiden state. Was there any thought about getting any
licensing for an Iron Maiden track to introduce this thing

(34:48):
at any point? I'm just curious.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
No, actually there wasn't. That would have been a great
That would have been a great idea.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Last sequence run to the Hills. I mean, you know,
but then again you're like, why are you not a
great kid?

Speaker 2 (35:01):
It's a great idea. Maybe somebody will do a director
you know, a bootleg, a bootleg remix or something, and
and and put it to some Iron Maidens tunes.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
So the other thing, I mean, if they can put
they can put John Claude van Dam running through Bloodsport
to the Mento's theme. I think they can do just
about anything, whether or not they have the rights to
it on social or not. Maybe we'll put put Anna
on that. I saw her her reels the other day
with some some rather interesting music from my area. That
took a quite quite a big turn. Those college kids
quite interesting on their instagrams these days. Now back to

(35:32):
the distribution thing where I was I was getting to
is Amazon Prime. This was easy to find. Again, you
had to sift through the Iron Maiden stuff to get it.
And why was Prime the the distribution point for you?
And what was what do you think that was the
most successful part about putting it on Amazon Prime.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Well, it's it's it's the biggest video on demand platform
in the world. And so that for me says it
right there, go big, get it in front of as
many eyeballs as possible. And I'm super happy they they
picked it up. Apple has licensed it. They haven't yet

(36:09):
pushed it out onto their platform, but that should come
in the next few weeks, I think. But you know,
Amazon Prime is the biggest video on demand platform in
the in the world, and and it just what a great,
what a great opportunity for this to get distributed. I
want to say one other thing too, about the you know,
the matches and and and the filming of the of

(36:32):
the actual you know events, and that is how do
you bring you know, sort of energy to these matches
when you're just you know, you're on the floor and
you have nobody in your ear right, there's no announcer.
Now you're an announcer. So in that final match, Jeff
buyers stay wrestling. Yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay. I wasn't

(36:57):
sure if I wanted to make sure we get that
in there, because as as a documentary filmmaker, you have
to say, Okay, we need energy here. We can't just
show the wrestling like footage. This is part of that
explaining to an audience as well as entertaining the audience
and bringing energy to what's happening on the screen. And

(37:17):
so after the fact, actually I reached out to Jeff
because Jeff didn't do any of the announcing at the
PIAA Championships, and I said, Jeff, would you be willing
to do a voiceover of these matches and provide me
with this you know, commentary of the match and the
and the energy. He said absolutely, and he's super supportive. Again,

(37:41):
this is this comes back to that theme of all
of these people who are willing to support you know, me,
and and not just me, but because of the women's
wrestling movement, they're willing to support that. And you know,
Pennsylvania has come out for that, and you know, Jeff
was just it's just such a great, great narration. It's

(38:04):
a great call that he's you know, and It's not easy, right,
he's not there, he doesn't feel the energy of the crowd,
so he has to, you know, he has to generate
that and produce that in the film. And it's just
I think it adds so much to to the action
aspect of the of the film.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
And I'll say this too, having been in Hershey when
I lived in Pennsylvania, been to the Giant Center, knowing
the feeling in there, listening to it on radio in
my car, like if I have to leave a session early,
go back so and then you know, there's been other
documentaries that have used the radio calls from around the state,
so familiar with it, I'll say this, I didn't know
he wasn't on the call. I know he did penn statement.

(38:40):
So that's that authenticity there, even though it came after
the fact. Again spoiler alert, but by this time you
kind of realize spoilers are everywhere throughout this interview. But no,
I thought there was an authentic thing to it. I'm
not just saying that because I know him. It's like
one of the things I'm listening to. It was like, oh,
it's immediately it's like, oh, I got I got buyers.
I didn't and I didn't know that wasn't a radio call.
Oh right there. I think that lends to the authenticity,

(39:02):
even though it wasn't as the moment. I know, shooting
tape delay, for example, for for events that happened i
might be at in January and I've got to shoot
the audio in March, it's really hard to recapture that.
So you know, like to your point, I would love
to be on location for this stuff, but you know,
you don't know how the story's gonna go. You can't
be like, we need a radio guy for this match.
And if that's where I think the authenticity may come

(39:24):
into if you if you're bringing somebody in just for
like just these matches and then you're maybe faking it
that way, that's where I think you lose this. But
I think I think Buyers did a great Plus. You
brought up Tom Elling too, who is the absolute encyclopedia
when I've referred to Tom for years. I've known him
since I was a kid in terms of getting into
this media stuff. So you got the right people you got.
You got buyers from the from from Penn State Radio,

(39:46):
got the other buyers from from the PIAA Mark Buyers
did a great job, you know, with with the Pennsylvania history,
so again bringing that in and putting a bow on
the impact of this project not just to you personally,
but where do you see this documentary maybe sitting in
the lore of wrestling and how it will maybe help
those naysayers who are still kind of nie on girls wrestling.

(40:09):
I mean, there's plenty of them still out there. There's
still plenty of curmudgeons that don't think girls should be
on the mat. And you know, you've got the advocates
like Terry Steiner at USA Wrestling. On the other side,
you've got some grumpy coaches that still won't do it,
and they'll do everything they can. They run the girl
out of the wrestling room, make practices triple hard that
day so they quit. Where do you think your documentary

(40:29):
can help the sport of women's wrestling grow, not just
in Pennsylvania, but but nationally as well well.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
I hope it helps, you know. I think that when
you when you watch what was what they have to
go through, what they had to endure, can get to
this point you realize what women's sports means, and you
realize what it means to girls to have the opportunity

(40:58):
to wrestle. Can't you can't ignore it. You can't say that, well,
that's that's not a real thing once you watch the film.
And so hopefully when somebody, if somebody is sort of
a little bit of a curmudgeton, as you might say,
they look at the film and they say, you know what,
I have to think about this differently. So, you know,

(41:20):
maybe that will happen. But hopefully it also serves as
a as a touchstone for you know, the younger girls
who are just you know, they're just they're having fun, right,
They're just they're just enjoying their experience wrestling, and they're young,
they're in elementary school. They're excited, and they have a
way now to see the history of their sport that

(41:44):
not only gives them the context of the shoulders that
they're standing on, but has some real contemporary you know,
leaders and influential characters. You know. And I'm not sure
Avery and and Lena are going to be able to
go to too many uh, you know, wrestling matches and

(42:04):
not be recognized by some of these young girls. And
they done an outstanding job representing themselves and each other
and the sport, and so you know, having those ambassadors,
you know, sort of come to life on the screen
and then be represented in the community of wrestling. I
think that play is definitely a part in how the

(42:25):
film will will impact. So I hope it has an impact.
I think it will. It certainly will, you know, you know,
hopefully it will stand the test of time, right, and
that the story becomes a stronger story because of the
things that happen in the future, and the story says, hey, this,

(42:45):
this started at this point, and look at all of
the good things that have come after this. And so
I hope it. I hope it stands the test of time.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
One last thing I felt like that was key to
that point is you know, telling the story. You told
the story from twenty twenty five years ago. Aarontonio now
Aaron Vandervers. She's now the women's college coach up at Gannon,
but she had been on the US national team staff.
She came through the circuit world team member. I first
met Aaron back in two thousand and three at the
World Championships in New York City. We've been friends ever since.

(43:18):
And it's like to sit there and to tell Aaron's
story as the backdrop for this story, I think really
did meld that here's what they were dealing with, because
these girls are in an era where girls wrestling has
been a thing. It's been a We've had a World
championships since the late eighties, so it's been an Olympic sport.
We do the math. Yeah, they were born after two

(43:39):
thousand and four, so they've been alive for every single
Women's Olympic Games. Now you have to go back to
the generation or two before then to be like, these
are what the girls were fighting against. And I think
you did a great story. Tying in a name that
even the Curmudgeons would know. They'll know Aaron Tomio, they'll
know the world team, they'll know the team I say representation,

(44:01):
so I think, and tying it into Western Pa. And
obviously you know with the Tomeo family, I've known Tom,
her older brother, for a long time. So I think
that was one of the key things that really blended
all this together for me, is that wrestling JUNKI bee like, Okay,
you know, oh, there's the history piece, there's Aaron, there's
a name, and it shows there's not just that that
you've got avery going to a women's college in Pennsylvania

(44:22):
at lock Haven, Aaron coaching at a university in Pennsylvania.
So you've got the past and present at state schools
our Pea Sax schools. Again it's private, but like there
are Pea Sax schools that served the state of Pennsylvania
at large as well. So I think that to me
was one of the underlying stories that made this thing
a home run for me.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
That's awesome to hear, you know, I felt like Aaron
was a missing link to the past and the present
and she filled in this spot that was critically important
for people to understand. And you did a nice job
explaining that. And there's so much material of error that

(45:05):
I mean, I honestly could create a story of just
Aeron Right and what she experienced and what she went through.
And there are some just moments in our interview that
were just awesome, and you know, you like again you
have to pick and choose and and put it in
the context of of sort of the story and get

(45:27):
the length where you need it. And but just getting
back to her, I mean, what an incredible, incredible ambassador
of the sport, ambassador for the sport, and what she
has done uh in the state at programs, at the
you know, at the high school level, at the national level,
both as a coach and as a wrestler and an

(45:48):
incredibly humble, unassuming person that just has an unbelievable fire.
And you know that came out in some of the interviews.
I'll tell you it was really, really, really a pleasure
to get to know her. And an interesting twist of fate,

(46:10):
Lena transferred to Gannon. So Lena started her wrestling career
at Baldwin Wallace her freshman year, UH, and then one
thing led to another, and you know, Lena decided that,
you know, she she wanted a different program for whatever
reasons she had, and she went into the transfer portal

(46:33):
and one thing led to another and she's up at
Gannon with coach Van Diver and so the two of
them are are united up in Gannon, you know, two
of my characters. It's really it's really pretty cool. But yeah,
Aaron represented just such an important time and an important struggle.

(46:56):
And I make the distinction. You know, people use pioneers
and people use trailblazers, and I have a very specific line, right,
Aaron was a trailblazer, like she went through the thicket.
There was no there was no path. She made a
way where there was no way. Right, That's what a
trailblazer literally does. And you know the women that come

(47:20):
after her, you know, we call you know, we could
call them pioneers, right, they are the people who went west. Right,
there there was a route, but it was still difficult,
but there was a route. You know, Aaron and people
of Aaron's generation they had to fight through the thicket.
And they are truly the trailblazers, and it was just
critically important to have them as part of the part

(47:42):
of the story. And she, you know, she you can't
have them all, so she kind of represents right all
of them in that in her experience.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
So what's next for you? Is it? Is it back
to water polo? Is this something that hooked you into wrestling?
Where we see more wrestling films from Tony Mellinson? Will
we we see will we see that the rest community
may may be paying attention to Are you part of
the wrestling community? Now?

Speaker 2 (48:05):
I suppose I am right. If if you put a
if you put a documentary out there that uh, you know,
wrestling people love to watch, I'm I'll be a proud
contributor and member of the wrestling community for sure. And
I always said, if the first thing I need to
do in this film is to make sure that wrestling
people like the film and they feel like it honors

(48:27):
the sport of wrestling, that it that it doesn't do
something that's you know, that's not right or you know,
it's not quite right or what. I didn't want that,
but I wanted to make a story that was going
to be universal. So hopefully I've nailed that landing, and
so in that way, maybe I'll be you know, considered
part of the wrestling community. As as far as uh

(48:49):
my next thing, We'll stay tuned. I guess it's the
only thing I can say. There will there will be
sort of many next things. I think, you know, sports
is definitely, you know, the struggle behind sports is just
such an interesting one. And and like I said, it's
more than winning and losing. So I think you get
the right person with the with the interesting motivations and

(49:13):
story behind them, and it can it can be magic
no matter when or loose. And then I think there's
some other human stories that you know, I'd like, I'd
like to tell, you know, there are people who have
been extremely influential in their you know, small niche, you
know of of the world, and you know their stories

(49:35):
deserve to be told. So I'm on the lookout for
stories and if every anybody has a story that has
to be told, please do reach out to me. I'd
love to hear from you.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
To reach out first of all, this film, you can
go at Iron Maiden's film on the Socials. The website
is ironmaidensfilm dot com. There is a contact information there,
but beyond the film, where else can they get a
hold of you and follow what you're doing? Maybe there's
a water polo fans like, wait a minute, I know
that guy. Where can they get a.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Hold of you?

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Where can they follow your other projects?

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Yeah? Sure, so I'll post those on the iron Freeze
Time Productions dot com website. We'll start to put things
out there. You can contact me at my email address
at Tony at Freezetimeproductions dot com. It's probably the best
way to get in touch with me if you want
to get in touch with me. And I just would
really appreciate anybody that watches this film. If you liked it,

(50:26):
leave reviews. These reviews are the algorithm maker right, they
make the algorithm happen and so that the film ends
up in people's feeds and they say, you know, if
you like this film, then you might like this film.
And the more people that review the film and like it,
the more people that are going to have an opportunity

(50:46):
to see the film. So if you like the film,
please be sure to leave a review.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
All right, Tony, appreciate the time. It's been great. I
enjoyed it. As you said, I'll be sure to leave
that review too. And it's not just because you're on
the show. It's because I generally actually enjoyed the film.
And you know, it's always fun when you watch something
when you know the players in it. But I also
like the fact that I watched something and I didn't
know the players in this and I'm not meeting rest
of the players as the athletes, I mean players, Like

(51:13):
who is the characters? Anyway? I got that's Devil's in
the details there. But Tony, it was great to touch
base and check this film out again. It's on Amazon
Prime Video. Iron Maidens Wrestling for Glory That wrestling for
gooy is a key part with searching or else you're
going to get a lot of Bruce Dickinson stuff from
the Metal Band, but Iron Maiden's great fifty five minute runtime.

(51:33):
It's the perfect thing on the way to a match.
It's one of those things that Hey, put it on,
put it on there to the streaming for your bus.
They don't put the vhs anymore vision quest as they
as they used to on team buses. You got documentaries,
you get things like that. But Tony, appreciate the time
and best of luck with your future projects and your
daughter's water polo season at UCLA.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Thank you. I appreciate you. I appreciate speaking to your
your fan base. Jason, I really appreciate it very much.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
The Short Time Wrestling Podcast has been outfitted by Compound
Sportswear since ever since. You need something, shirts, hats, gear, teamwear,
you need it, They've got it. Call up Cliff and
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