Ep. 428: Remembering Charlie Kirk

In Ep.428 of the Talon Outdoors Show, Charlie Strickland, JD Johnson, Captain Paul Tyre, and Fred Conrad dig into some of the heaviest topics yet. The crew discusses the landmark Florida court ruling overturning the state’s open carry ban, walking listeners through the legal history from Heller to McDonald and what it means for gun owners. The conversation then turns somber as they grapple with the shocking assassination of Charlie Kirk, reflecting on his influence, faith, and legacy.

Thanks, as always, to Captain Paul Tyre for joining the show. If you’re interested in going fishing with Paul, visit lakeseminolefishingguides.com or find them on Facebook @LakeSeminoleFishingGuides.  

Check out our archive of podcasts here: https://ihr.fm/36mzYjf.  

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Listen live to the Talon Outdoors Show from 10-11 a.m. ET on 100.7 WFLA!
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Talent Outdoor Show. I'm Charlie, I'm.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
D Yeah, I'm Fred, I'm Captain Vaul Tyre and I'm grated.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Sorry we're starting to show off a little bit of
levity because we've been in here laughing for the fast
five minutes.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yeah you were laughing.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Yeah, Well, we we've so today on today's show, So
we've got a couple of things to cover today. This
is probably gonna want to be one of our more focused,
serious shows that you'll hear. We've we've had our good
time before we started recording, so we're gonna be We're
gonna be talking in depth as the show gets a
little further on about the tragic events that just occurred

(00:40):
this week with Charlie Kirk. But first we want to
cover something that's a little more cerebral because we'll get
off on some tangents later in the show because we're
all sadened and angry and upset and everything else about that,
just like our listeners are. And we'll get to that
in a minute. But we had something happen this week.
I think was Monday, wasn't it, Fred, Monday? Yeah, Monday,

(01:03):
it was Monday. We're going with Monday that the first
District Court of Appeals in Florida. Now, for you Alabama folks,
the wiregrass folks, this will affect you because we're getting
some of the rights that you have had for a
while for open carry in Alabama and Georgia now exists
in Florida. And that's one of the things y'all been
concerned about for a while. When you come down to Florida,

(01:23):
if you were open carrying, you were violating the law
unless you were hunting, fishing, camping, or going to and
from a gun range or one of those events. That's
been a silly law since the eighties. That was written.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
It was Wednesday, by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Wednesday, Okay, it was Wednesday, same day it was. So
it was a silly law that was written. When we
enacted concealed carry back in the eighties, they took away
the ability to carry openly anyway. Long story short, we
hadn't been able to carry openly, and sometime you can
call what we got recently constitutional carrier when you could
carry permitless, but it was not. And so we still

(01:57):
haven't rewritten the statutes. But the first DCA, which is
one of the district courts, and it is Pensacolas, Cambia
County area and part of North Florida.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Correct, Fred, Well, that's where the original event took place.
The decision was made here in Tallahassee at the first
because that's.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Our first was that's here it is.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Okay, Yeah, we are in the first District Court of Appeal.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Okay, Well, the first DCA said that that they overturned
that lawsuit it's unconstitutional, and Fred's going to explain it. Uh,
long story short, y'all now have the right in Florida
to carry openly. You have the right. It comes with
responsibilities on the books.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
It is still alow on the books, and as far
as I know, the mandate has not come down, So
this is not final until the mandate is issued. So
don't go strapping on a gun and walking around.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
With They already are because the Sheriff's Association sent out
a memorandum to all of the sixty seven county sheriffs
and said, tell your deputies, do not arrest anybody at
you open carey, and do not enforce this law anymore. However,
somebody could.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
That's correct.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
You might have legal fees.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, I'm not advising anybody to open care it yet,
So that's that's that's not my legal advit. The sheriff
can say I'm not going to force the law, but
I can't tell you as a matter of law that
the law is still not valid because the mandate has
not issued. So now, good on the sheriff if he's
not going to enforce it. I agree with him a
hundred percent, and I agree with this opinion.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
One.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
I'm proud of our District Court of Appeal the way
they reached the decision this and there is no way
that our Florida Supreme Court would overturn.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
This, nor would the US. Now the attorney attorney General
said he's not going to appeal it. I think support it.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, And I think he would be making an unethical
argument if he did appeal it based on the way
this thing is written.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Well, he's already said he supports it. It's done except
for the waiting.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
So anybody who would follow the law would the Attorney
General should take that position. Say, let me tell you
how this started. This was fourth of July or twenty
twenty two. This guy named Stanley Victor McDaniels, and he
was running for office, and so He's standing in the

(04:24):
corner corner of a major intersection in Pensacola. In his
left hand, he's holding a copy of the Constitution. In
his right hand, he is waving at people that are
driving by, and he's got a inn holster in clothing holster,
but the butt of the gun is taken out, so
he is openly carrying under Florida's ban on open care.

(04:47):
He's committing a second degree misdemeanor at the time, and
so the cops show up, and he's very cooperative with
the cops and he tells them at the time he
wants to take his case to the Supreme Court and
that's in the opinion, and so they take his gun
away from him and give him his holster back, and
then they go get a warrant and he turns himself in.

(05:08):
He goes to trial. The Honorable Kara A. Smith, who
is a female judge county judge, finds him guilty. He
gets probation in some community service. They stay the sentence
and the case goes See now county court cases go straight.
They used to go to the Strica Court. They now
go straight to the first District Court of Appeal and

(05:29):
they take it up and so here we are in
twenty twenty five. Tells you how long it takes to
get a case through an appellate court, and they hand
down this ruling. This ruling is probably one of the
most solidly written opinions I've ever seen come out of
the first ECA. It tracks how we got here and

(05:50):
so and I think it's I think it's worthwhile to
the listeners to understand that. So, you know, about a
decade ago, we got the Heller decision, that is a
landmark decision from the United States Supreme Court, and it says, no,
it's not a militia, it's individuals. The Second Amendment is
a right, just like all the other Bill rights that

(06:13):
protects individuals from government. It extends a god given right,
not law given, as Tim Kaine would say, but a
god given right that is given to us and interpreted
through our laws. But we have this right. And they say, yeah,
you have a individual right to keep and bear arms.

(06:34):
And I use that word bear in quotations because it's
going to become important in just a minute. So Heller says,
all right, the right extends to individuals. Then you get
the McDonald case. This is the next case in the
litany of Second Amendment cases as it relates to firearms,
and this might be the most dysfunctional ruling I think

(06:56):
the Supreme Court ever rendered. It did was a plurality opinion,
and those are weird. That's when you have I think
this was when Katanji had worked on this case, and
so she couldn't be in So yet eight judges making
the decisions. That's never a good thing. Four of the
judges dissented, and four of the judges wrote the majority

(07:19):
or the plurality opinion. One of the judges in the
four descenting was Thomas, and he said, I'm descending, but
I agree with the result. So that made it a
plurality opinion. What this did was it extended the federal
individual right to the states and local governments. Not only

(07:42):
are you protected by the federal government but the states.
That extends to the states through the fourteenth Amendment. According
to the plurality Thomas thought it ought to be extended
with the Privileges and Immunities clause. But he agreed that
it should be extended. But they didn't really say how

(08:03):
it's extended, and they left it to the courts to
come up with this two pronged tests that nobody really understood.
And as a result of that, that resulted in another
case from the Florida Supreme Court that took up on
the ban because it was challenged before, and it went
to the Florida Supreme Court in a case called Norman,

(08:24):
and the Norman decision upheld the ban on open carry.
So were we lost in the Florida Supreme Court. But
then the opinion the Brewing Opinion, and I love the
Brewing Opinion because what it does is it takes the
two theories of conservative constitutional theory and we're going to

(08:48):
call them the textual theory. And that's what I am.
And the textual theory would be, Okay, what does it
say in the Constitution, and if it's covered in the Constitution,
that's it.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
We're done.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
We're done. You look at the text of the Constitution.
You don't look at what the founders meant when they
wrote it. And I don't like that. That's called originalist theory.
And you can be a conservative and to have the
originalist theory. And I'm going to tell you, Okay, you're right,
but I'm smarter than you are, because when you look

(09:22):
at the originalist theory. You're trying to go back and
ascertain what the Founding fathers meant when they wrote it,
and you weren't there. You don't know what they meant.
Look at the text, not what you think they meant.
So what this decision did was it took the originalist
justices and the textual justices and it combined them. And
it's fascinating to read what they wrote.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
LII.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
We're going to hold you off right there because we've
got about ten seconds, but this is absolutely interesting and
we want to pick right back up here in just
a minute. Thank you for v.

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we're picking up where were left off. If you missed
the first part, go back and listen to the stream
and think, is this is part of a longer conversation Fred.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Okay, So what happens next is you get the Brewing decision.
This is the gold standard of the Supreme Court. This
finally settles what the Second Amendment? What does it cover?
All right? And it's pretty simple. And what they did
was they combined the textualist theory of constitutional uh whatever

(11:25):
word I'm looking for that of interpretation to the originalists.
They combined the two and they came up with a test. Now,
every time Supreme Court rules, there's always a test. So
you go back and go back to your basic constitutional
law class. If you're going to law school right now,
that's the first thing you need to know is every

(11:45):
Supreme Court opinion, there's a test, and usually it's like
two or three prong tests. But this is a pretty
simple test, and it is called the text, history and
tradition test, and it's actually two parts to it, so
the history and tradition is combined. So the first thing
you do when you look at a law to determine
regarding guns, to determine whether it's constitutional. You say, okay,

(12:08):
is it covered by the text of the Constitution. So
what do we have here. We have a ban on
open carry of firearms. Well, is that in the text
of the Constitution?

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, it is, you can have one it.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Well, remember I said that word bear you can carry?
All right? Bear means where Carrie hold? All right, if
you're bearing something, you are showing it, all right, you
have it on your person. So you get to keep arms.
That means you don't have to turn them into the
armory like they do in Canada. So you can keep

(12:43):
them and you can bear them. And so they said,
all right, well, that definitely in the text of the Constitution.
Now let's look at the history and tradition of how
that was regulated. And it's actually summed up at the
very end of the opinion, And I'm just going to
tell you what the text is and we're talking about
so we got it. It's in the text of the

(13:04):
Second Amendment. Let's look at the history. Well, here's the history.
The historical record makes clear that open carrey was reguarded
as the lawful and preferred mode of bearing arms, while
concealed carey was viewsed as dangerous to public safety and
in effective for self defense. No historical tradition supports Florida's

(13:25):
open carrey ban. To the contrary, history confirms that the
right to bear arms in public necessarily includes the right
to do so openly. That's how they interpreted it under
the Brewing decision. And it's that simple. Yep, it's not complicated.
It's not rocket sites. A lot of big words in here.
The opposition tried to argue laws from thirteen twenty eight

(13:48):
and all kind of other nutty stuff. But when you
look at it in the context of Florida law, and
they mentioned this in the opinion, this has only been
illegal since nineteen eighty seven. All when we were growing
up had gun racks in the back of our pickup
trucks where we had a rifle and a shotgun. On
full display as we drove to school. Yes, all right, we.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
Were set there in the parking lot at school all
day and nobody.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Ever wants we were bearing arms openly. That all went away.
That's why you won't see gun racks in back trucks anymore,
because in nineteen eighty seven that was essentially Outlawed's unless
you were going to the hunting camp, you couldn't have
your gun, or to the camping fishing, whatever you're doing,

(14:35):
you're one of the activity the limited exceptions. But now
we will be able to put those guns in the
back of our truck. Now, whether that's a good idea,
that's a different question in light of theft and a
lot of the places that we have in the crime
rate going up. But we'll be able to have the
freedom to do that. And that's what's important about this decision.

(14:57):
It gives us our freedom back, and that's a big deal.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
It is a big deal, especially in when you got
the other side of the argument doing everything they can
to take every gun we own away from us, because
that is their end goal. And don't ever think that
it's not.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Well, I can tell you in light of the other
events of this week, I am going too proudly display
a couple of guns in the back of my pickup truck.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Well, that's the way they get. You want to gets
broken and it gets stolen.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
It might back back in the day, I might get
what you do.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
What you do if you're going to do that, as
you run your cable through the guns and bolt it
down in there, and that way, if they break you
win and grab a gun, it can't steal the thing.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
And that's what I'm gonna do, dog on it.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
That would also give a higher level of securing them.
So I was reading through. I read that whole thing too,
and it's a little numbing if you if you really
dig in there, but it makes sense. They even go
into talking about out in the history of carrying, when

(16:03):
people who carried concealed were considered cowards and to be
manly you had to carry openly. I mean, there's things
back in the.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Early country music songs that talk about carried carried his
gun for all the honest world to see in the
hry Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
So so I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that's
the case because it's obviously not. We we carry concealed
for tactical surprise and to keep people from committing gun grabs,
and for being the guy in the room that can
respond and they didn't know you had a gun. You know,
I always worry. I mean, I think about this. So
I'm still enforcement. So I can carry a gun openly

(16:43):
anytime I want to generally clip a badge on there,
but I you know, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
But the reason I don't routinely carry openly is because
I'm of concern when I'm pumping gas and somebody walks
up behind me, or if I'm standing in line at
check out counter and somebody standing there behind me and
they are one movement away from being armed and me

(17:05):
being unarmed. It's just that easy to have a gun
taken away from you if you don't have some sort
of secure holster and particularly and listen, I'm trained, JD.
How many times have we trained to do weapon retention
and react to that type of gun grab and all
that stuff. But it's still for the average citizen out
there that now can carry openly after this thing gets,

(17:26):
you know, finalized, I'm I'm not an attorney, so I don't.
I don't care. I know nobody's going to rescue you
unless they're just a complete idiot and want to get
sued for violating your constitutional rights. But the but that
doesn't save you the attorney's fees in the meantime until
this thing is yeah, right, So the legislature's gonna probably

(17:49):
go back, I would imagine, go back and tweak the law.
They're gonna have to rewrite some stuff, and they may
want to, you know, change, but the governor's not gonna
sign anything he doesn't agree with, so they'll make it
right in the long run. So when I tell people, go, well,
why do you say it's a bad idea to carry openly?
I'm not saying it's always a bad idea. I just
think the method of carry and if you don't have

(18:10):
some if you're if you're not trained, and weapon retention,
if you just carry an easy to grab gun because
you can. They're videos of people having guns taken away
from them.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
Oh yeah, man, I go on and spending a lot
of time in Georgia and Alabama, I see it a
lot more because you don't see it here, but I
see it when I'm out of state, people carrying open
top holsters with no retention device and absolutely not paying
attention to their surroundings. And I'm standing arms reach away
from them, and there's their gun. And I promise you

(18:41):
I could have it in my hand before they could
even react.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
And if you were mentally ill, and.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah, if if I was a bad guy, Yeah, you
have just given them a gun.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
And you think they won't do it. I mean, leave
your car, You leave your car on a lot with
your gun sitting in the seat and walk in the store. No,
because somebody will reach in there and grab it. Are
you gonna care just because it's on your person? You
were you were providing it to someone to do a
quick grab. Now, if you're carrying it on appendis carry
up up on the front, you know, and you can
pull that off, you know. Maybe less so, but if

(19:15):
you're if you carry like I like to carry back,
you know, at five o'clock above my wallet on my side,
and I bend over in a store or I'm not
you know, I get I get to tbgb's when somebody
walks up behind me and I've got my you know.
Now what this means for me is when I leave
the house any morning, I stick my gun in my waistband.

(19:37):
I got inside the waistband holster. I'm wearing it right
now openly in the studio where we are. I stick
it to my waistband, and I go get my truck
or my car and I go to work, and I
may have to stop and get gas. When I stop
at the gas station or I run into gas, I
untucked my shirt and I pull it over my gun.
And you know, I don't want people to look at

(19:58):
it and call the low because some guys open carrying
it at the gas station, even though I'm still in transit
to and from a gun right blah blah blah blah
blah blah. That gun. That laws never made any sense
to me, and it's always been hard to interpret to
mean what do you consider, you know, on the way
to and from So it's it's a moot point now.
But now I don't have to worry about covering that up.
So if I want to get out and wash my

(20:18):
windshield and walk around in front of my truck, you know,
then I can expose my gun and I don't have
to worry about somebody looking at me crossways. I walked
in a place yesterday to get something, and oh, I
went in last night to pick up some Chinese food
on the way home, and yes you need and yes,
I even yes, I even ordered it the wrong way,

(20:39):
and I got the accent on the phone like I
always do. And I walked in and I'm going, I crap,
I forgot nothing and took my shirt. Oh I can
you know what? Okay? Cool? And but I still felt
a little subconscious because when the when the little fella
got up behind the William was bigger than you, Fred,
but the little fella got up behind the counter and

(21:00):
walked up to wait on me. I kind of turned
to where it was away from me so he wouldn't
feel intimidated, because I promise you he doesn't know about
this DCA opinion. And that's gonna be the big kicker
in the near future is people don't know. I mean,
they're this big news buts and I was talking to
my sheriff the other day after this, and I said,
and my wife runs dispatch. You know, we've had this

(21:22):
conversation about, Hey, the phone's gonna be ringing off the
hook because people don't know. And there's gonna be people
that are gonna run out and start walking down side walk.
Well they are fifteen now because they can and there's
gonna be a shock factor.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Well, how will it take for the mandate to come down?

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Worry X?

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Actually how long is that? Usually? Usually about two three
weeks okay, if they don't file for a rehear, in
which they're not going to do, then two to three weeks.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, So what does that look like? How does it
come out and say, well, now.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
There's mandate, it's got big big dow, shalt not in force,
sho enforce this law?

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Okay, and it'll be published in the Southern Reporter, and
they'll come out of the Florida Law Weekly.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
You subscribe to those, j I don't subscribe to this.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
I suspect somebody will come out here and want to
interview one of us so they can put it on
the news. That'd just be my guess.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
They've already interviewed Charlie. He was in the newspaper this morning.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Was it?

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (22:20):
What not?

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Wasn't I'll show you when we will break it. They
quoted you? What yeah? Are you in the news? Man?

Speaker 1 (22:28):
No, you're famous. I didn't talked to anybody.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
I'm gonna tell them about that Chinese food man u.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Did the guy ask you to bard the gun for
some capcer.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Serious show this week. We'll be right back.

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com and we're back so picking up on where we

(23:43):
left off. We were discussing the uh open carry and
the idea of open carry, and I mean open carry
has been legal in Georgia and Alabama, and now it's
going to be Uh, you're trying to get me to
read something in the middle of.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
You can't do that, Charlie, because he can't do you
can't cannot do both yet.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, here is this is this is a tell this democrats.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Democrats got you. I told you the.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Decision is likely to stand. This isn't a Democrat article.
It's this if open careers when I start wearing a gun.
Da da da da da. The decision is likely to
stand if the state Attorney General doesn't appeal. According to
Tallon Rainge CEO Charlie Strickland, let's uh, let's let this out,
let this play out a little longer, and in a

(24:29):
few months we will see if the AG wants to
take it to the Supreme Court in Florida. Strictland posted
on Facebook, and then AG Jim Admire called decision to win.
So that seems unlikely.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Somebody, somebody, somebody.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
In my Facebook I told you you were famous. I
may have commented on one of their posts I don't know.
I didn't know you're getting in these that way. Yeah, well,
when you're a public figure like I am.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
It happened to me a couple of weeks ago about
the clerk. They took a Facebook post up and find
it in The Democrat, and I'm like, what.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Are they they board for news? You think anyway? Yeah,
Alabama open carry Georgia and Alabama has been going on
for it's been going to all.

Speaker 4 (25:15):
The LA be shocked if there was ever a band
on open carry in Georgia since James Oglethorpe. There probably
hadn't been one since it was a colony.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah, And you don't, honestly, you don't hear about a
lot of what we would call a grab or a
gun grab or somebody taking a gun away from somebody.
That's not It is not as common as I would
even think that it would be because I see it
from the eyes of a law enforcement officer. And when
we in uniform law enforcement alcers since I started my

(25:46):
career in nineteen eighty eight, we're wearing level three security
holsters that take you know, two snaps in a back
and you know this whole combination even get the gun
out of the holster and that's been law enforcement standard
for a long long time.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Now subscribed to seven.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Oh yes, I did.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
I did.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
I have a client that actually had a gun stole last.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Week, stolen off of their person, off of their person.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Guy been been watching her, so he put it in
her bag whatever and rap stole gun. Ay gadd been
doing that and they finally caught him.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Yeah, like I said, I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
We all there have been instances that have them. But
the sad thing that I see is people will take
it and you know, take a firearm and stick it
in the pocket of their cargo pants and just let
the grip hang out, or some floppy holster that's just
barely holding onto the gun and they're walking around in
the store and all this other stuff, and it's just

(26:45):
just it's irresponsible.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Now, if you buy a Talon holster, well.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, we do have outside the waistband holsters with it
with a single snap on there. And I'm not even
real super comfortable with that as being it's it's more
secure than one that doesn't have a snap or a
strap that goes over the back of it to hold
it in. There is yeah, it's more secure. It's still
not a level level two or level three duty holster.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah. Yeah, it's there when you when you're rolling around
on the ground in a fight. As a law enforcement officer,
you want the highest level of retention that you can
get because you know how to operate that holster.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
And there's a gun involved in every every encounter that
you have with a citizen there is there is always
a gun there, so you have to as a cop,
you have to think there's always a gun. It's always
a gun fight, even if it's a physical altercation, it's
always a gun fight because there's a gun there.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
And the number of instance you're going to get reported
law enforcement where you you are openly carrying and you
get an argument with somebody, you better not get in
your car and leave. Don't make if you If you're
openly carrying and you've got a gun, they're going to
say you threaten them with a firearm, and it's going
to be hard to say you didn't when you're standing

(27:55):
there with one visibly available. And it's so it's going
to complicate the process. If you're going to openly carry,
you need to be the ultimate gentleman as it comes
to these things, take the high road, or lady, or lady,
take the high road and recognize that you present a
deadly threat to them if you stand your ground and
argue back, because now they're going to interpret it that way. Now,

(28:17):
whether or not you get arrested or not, it's a
different story. Just be careful, be careful and choose your words,
and choose meet to your anger level a little bit,
and I woll just take a deep breath and move on.
We'll be right back.

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we're coming back from the sorry Tyler hassee folks, y'all

(29:44):
don't get the bottom of hour segment. But we were
talking about some open carry issues and one of the
things that came up was and before we move on,
and since we've got an attorney here, I want to
talk a little bit about so in historically, if you
carried your farm concealed and Florida, as long as if
you inadvertently displayed it not in an angry or threatening manner,
so you didn't pull up your shirt tail and you're

(30:06):
threatening somebody and show the gun. So that was a
violation of the law. Now, if you're going to open
carry and you don't, you can still conceal carry all
that stare. You can still do that with it without
a permit. But now you're going to open carry. And
so you get in an argument with someone and you say.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
I'm going to shoot you and you have.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
The gun visible, correct, Now, what is that?

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Fred probably aggravated as salt with.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
The firearm, which is a feeling.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
And caught carries them in man.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, so when so, but if I'm standing up talking
about don't don't make me hurt you or something like that,
now that's ther ray area gray area.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Okay, So you have the apparent ability to carry out
the threat for sure.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
There's one case I had this exact issue come up
not too long ago. A question was when does it
become aggravator? So do you so at different levels? If
I'm pointing my gun at you saying I'm going to
shoot you, the aggravators allow, That's that's no question about that.
But what if I have the gun and I'm holding

(31:04):
it at ready? Yeah, you're ready, position pointed down on
the ground, point down the ground, is that aggurbate? Well
gray area?

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Smart hands redly available for use? What a reasonable person
been in fear?

Speaker 2 (31:17):
What if it's not loaded? I don't know that that's
a gray area of question. Because the you know we're
talking about, the person feels like he's being assaulted.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
You got a firearm, it's reasonable for them to be
placed in fear.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
So they could they could legally shoot you.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Sure, m h. So why wouldn't it be aggravated assault?

Speaker 1 (31:37):
I don't. Probably wouldn't be an on book. All right,
So we got that's a decision for a trial.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah it is. It's a decision for trial. So if
you're going to openly carry and you get it in an
argument with somebody like Charlie was saying, the best the
best thing is that I'm sorry, I don't are you here? Yeah,
come see me tomorrow if you want to argue, it's
it's not argument day, and get into your car and
drive away.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
It's gonna be tough for some people. There's gonna be
people facing criminal charges. That's that's the hard thing for
anybody to do.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
No matter whether you think you're right or wrong, it's
hard to walk away from.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
So it's been tough as a cop in the inniform
and all the training we've had to just bite your
tongue sometimes and go, you know what, I'm gonna lose
this argument because I have to I gotta I gotta leave.
And a lot of people don't have that type of
training and de escalation training or their experience, so the
mines are gonna have a hard time doing it. And
now that you've got a gun visible, it aggravates that stuff.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
So you know, as with anything, all right, this is
a we got our freedom back. That's great.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
We don't want to lose it.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
You don't want to lose your freedom. But with freedom
comes responsibility, absolutely, and there are consequences. I mean, I
have the right to go out and say the most
vulgar and racist things and stand in my party line
yell people on the street, I'm not gonna do that.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
You really need to stop.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
You got you got to be prepared to deal with
the consequences there.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
There are consequences to that.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Which is a big problem in the world today because
people get on the internet and say things and say
stupid things, and there's no there's never a consequence because
a lot of time they're an anonymous under a handle
on the Internet and they tie.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
But those people want to hold people on the right
responsible for anything we say. And that's one of the
great divisions in our country today. And this is a
perfect segue into what we wanted to talk about, and
that is the murder, the slaughter of the assassination of
one of the most proligious pro everything that is on

(33:25):
our side of the equation, someone who is one of
the most intelligent people that I've ever seen, someone who
has a huge following and will continue to have an
even bigger following, someone who children our children's age.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
Following it has been a rough week at the Johnson house.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
I telluseholds the same thing. Yeah it is.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
Tater's birthday was Thursday, and we had her birthday party
Wednesday night so she could go to soccer practice Thursday night,
and so her birthday celebration was with the family was
Wednesday night. And you know it's for as she turned
her sixteen years old, and she was a child that
absolutely once at least once a week, would share a

(34:06):
Charlie Kirk real.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
I mean, I was just a good person to me.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
She didn't look at this, look at this, look at this,
and she just was such a fan, and he's such
a good Christian and she's really devout. She's a really
devout young lady. And it just, Man, you talk about
breaking daddy's heart. I have been just fighting off tears
all week.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yeah, my son crossed paths with him in his work
and as the vice president of the Citadel Republican Club,
which was one of the biggest clubs in Southeast and
a lot of candidates and people like that came through
that club, and he got to meet him, and I
think he met him at Seapac and you know, he

(34:48):
he's not pleased about it.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
All.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
My kids are just angry about it. I mean, anybody
that age.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yeah, sixteen, fifteen, fourteen to twenty five.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
He made He made Christianity and conservative cool.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, and with with lucid arguments and debate, being open
and polite. Civil are sitting there giving everyone the opportunity
to come in and and very few people were able
to successfully do any of that because he was such
a smart guy.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
He didn't he didn't he didn't attack him personally. It's
kind of like my rule with cops on the stand,
I'm going to go after him and and I'm you know,
I'm going to attack your investigation. I am never going
to attack you personally, I just unless you lie. And
but he didn't do that, and and.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
And they still whacked him.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
That's the thing.

Speaker 4 (35:37):
He was the most mainstream, like normal guy. He was
not a guy with these super edgy like online takes
or whatever. He was mainstream and everyone knew him. And
he's a proxy and all of us. If they're willing
to do it to the guy with the biggest heart,
they'll do it.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
They martyred him. And now they've got all of us,
those of us that listened and said, that's a cool
argument he's making. That really makes a lot of sense.
You know, look at him. Was he thirty one years old?
And in those thirty one years because he started as
a teenager with this was a turnpoint USA. It was
his organization, and he started as a teenager, and everybody's

(36:17):
looking at him. You know, you see this smart alec
kid starting to do this stuff. And now you see
this guy who and he came into his own and
he talked about being a good father and a good
being a good man and being a good Christian and
what the role of a father should be in a
family and all these different things, and he and he
and he lived that example. There was no drama with

(36:38):
him other than the fact that he wanted to go
into the bastions of liberalism and speak and give them
an opportunity to debate with him and talk about it.
And they slaughtered him. One of them slaughtered him. And
they applauded his children, and they applauded it, and they
and they and they reveled in it. And the thing
is is and then they turn around and go, okay, well,

(37:00):
and then they want to use the the There was
a legislator up in Minyuary somewhere that, yeah, they want
to talk about, Well, y'all assassinated some state legislator nobody
knew except right around there. And we didn't applaud that,
we didn't revel in what had the.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Like Minnesota or yeah, I don't even yeah, well.

Speaker 4 (37:20):
That was That's that's still kind of up for debate.
Don't exactly know who that person.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
No, Cortman, Yeah, I mean, oh, y'all did that? What
do you mean y'all did that? I mean, we don't
know what that was. And and we can't say that
not everyone on the left applauds this, But there's enough
of them out there jumping up and down and saying
nasty stuff. Now, nobody on my Facebook profile did because

(37:46):
I have done a really good job of fine tuning
who my echo chamber is to where I don't have
to listen to that, And so far I haven't had
to kick anybody out, although I said, I know that
there's some people on the other side of this, but
they but they meeted their comments and stuff and they
didn't applause.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Well I did have those. I don't filter them out.
I'll let anybody joinne And I tell you it's I
I am raging at this point. You look at at
at Charlie Kirk and you comparing with somebody on the
left like David Hogg. I mean, all right, is David
Hog inspired anybody? Is he gone and said let me
sit down with a conservative and share and have a

(38:26):
civil debate. No, he's called us every kind of name
in the book.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
They ruled and can present zero logical argument to back
it up, to back anything up.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, yeah, Greta Thunberg.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
My my thing. The reason he I feel like, the
reason he was such a threat is because he was successful.
He was successful at his goal. And there is no
telling how many young people.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Oh he that he that he converted, converted, that's right,
that is the throat to Jesus.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
And yes, no telling, and deemably possibly millions. And the
bad guys, the evil in this world can't abide with that.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
They cannot stand when somebody comes to Christ and they're
cool because they bring other people to Christ and it
is cool. I mean, look, he had he had the
faith and he lived it, and he showed what can
happen if you have faith, and how it makes life
so much more pleasant. Yeah, absolutely, when you have that.

(39:27):
And they couldn't stand it. They killed him for that.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
Absolutely right, horrible, horrible.

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Speaker 3 (40:36):
It's a driving I'm sort of hu lining.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
And we're back. So anyway before we get to fishing,
and let's finish up this conversation, no I. You know.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
The thing that got me back to the gun stuff
is the some of the like Acossio, Cortez and Selia.
We got to have common sense gun law. Okay, what where?
What what is your what is your common sense gun
law that's going to stop somebody from having a hunting rifle?

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (41:09):
What about the yeah on Facebook that was that's that's
not hunting rifle. That is a three eight bolt action.
That's not that's not Nobody hunts with that. I'm sorry,
that's exactly what I hunt with.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
I almost want you to say, who is this person?
We need to roast.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
He's one of my Facebook friends, you know, or it
was it was until probably today. Come on now, I
mean a three. Okay, that might have been.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
You sure that wasn't satirical on his part saying that,
you sure that wasn't satire, Charlie, because that is the ultimate.
So my understanding of the gun that was was used
in the thing was a was a Mauser Mauser rifle
that had been sportized and probably rebear old because the
Mausers from World War Two Mausers were all eight millimeters
German Mausers. But that's since nineteen forty you know, nineteen

(42:03):
forty one or forty five, when the war was over.
GI's brought those things back, the former German military issue
five shot bolt action Mauser soldiers brought those home by
the millions, and most of them don't remain in their
original configuration. They have all the wood stripped off of

(42:24):
them and they get them rebarreled. It has been the
primary gun to have customized or make custom guns off
of to hunt with. That's what was done with most
of them. Quarter I saw a picture of it. I've seen,
but there's so much crap floating around on the internet
that I don't know if it's a real picture or.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Now if it was that one, I can tell you
that whoever set it up probably got some scope. I
somewhere along the.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Line they've got that show I released all the way back.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Relief on that thing's terrible. What that doesn't mean?

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, yeah, too far back. We're you know, sitting away
off or sitting real close to it. So when it
kicked some fires, you're gonna get through. You get to
join the Club of the Crescent Moon. You know, you
get that cut right between the either. You've done that, right, Fred, Yeah,
that was the first time you shoot a deer rifle
who you're trying to get in a frap and gets
you right between the eyes, and you go, oh. I've

(43:16):
seen people just absolutely have their eyes their forehead opened up.
But yeah, I mean, if that's not like I, like
I said before that the goal of the left is
for American citizens to be totally disarmed, disarmed and totally
dependent on the government.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Sure. Yeah, there was a senator the other day that
said that our rights are your rights are Tim Tim
kau from the that was almost your vice president. What, Yeah,
we didn't get our rights didn't come from grid, they
came from laws. Tried to say that, you know, I
Ram believes that rights are given by the creator, and
he's off his rocker's.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
It's just yeah, that the But they want to make
the gun control argument every time there's a crisis, So
every time anything happens with a gun, we got to
do something about these guns, and never about we got
to do something about the bad people, the people that
are doing the bad things.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
But in the meantime, you've got an immigrant slaughtered on
a on a train or bus or a knife, and
in Cascade Park, Tallahassee, Florida, you got people staffed, people
to people stabbed and jumped in a pond and drowned.
So good for you, yeah, I mean at least at least,
but that had to be somebody who was mentally ill.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
He was he was and then reported missing earlier in
the day. He was agitated.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
There are there, there are the violent mentally ill people
coupled with just the mentally ill people who then become violent.
And listen, there's a lot of minalitis in this world.
And that's okay. I mean, these people need help. They
you know, they need medication, they need help, they need support. However,
violent mentally ill people, people who are just that, they

(44:54):
need to be an institution.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
I say this, I said this, I've said this on
the show before. I said again, growing up and Chattahoochee, Florida.
And you know, I want to consider myself somewhat of
an expert, if you will, on Crazy Yeah, Crazy, because
when I was a kid, my parents worked there, my
grandparents worked there. Everybody's life revolved around mental illness because

(45:18):
there was there's a still a giant hospital over there
with hundreds of big buildings with hundreds of beds and
with probably thousands of beds, because when I was a kid,
there was three thousand patients in the hospital, give or
take Yeah, at any given time, the census was this.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
And that's not even counting the real bad ones in
the forensic unit. I'm just talking about the ones that
could actually get out and walk around, that were not
so dangerous, but they were so but they were mentally
ill to the point where they couldn't take care of
themselves or they had done something to lose their freedom right. Okay,
whether they're violent or not, so it's probably there some
of them were prone to that. But my point is
when I was a kid growing up, there's three thousand

(45:56):
people housed over there in that big campus, that big
hospital to live there. And now last time I heard
a census count over there, it was like four hundred. Really, yeah,
And those are the people that are those are forensics
that have literally done something so horrible that I ain't
even gonna say it on the radio. You know, I
know what some of them are up there for, and

(46:17):
it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Some of them, yes, some of them are waiting for Some.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Of them are waiting for trials that they you know,
they're they're temporarily being assessed or whatever. And then you
have an Alzheimer's unit for people out there that have
Alzheimer's that can't take care of themselves.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
So that's put us also the rest of those people
that we're in there now roaming our streets.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
They live under the overpass and heard dogs.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yes, And here's the thing is, you know I have
I have security officers in Tallahassee, Florida right now running
off homeless people and transients from private properties. That's one
of the things we do is go to businesses and
strip malls and apartment complexes, and we spend most of
our time running off transiit it's and homeless people because

(47:00):
because the police are so overwhelmed with everything going on.

Speaker 3 (47:03):
And how many of those, Charlie, what percentage would you
say of those people that are what we call now
what we term the homeless, how many of them do
you would you say are mentally ill in some capacity
or another? The vast majority, virtually one hundred percent. You
might have the occasional person that's just down on their
luck and needs a little bit of help. Those people

(47:24):
don't stay on this. Well, the biggest the biggest sh
help is out there. The biggest issue we have is
when we go out and we're getting our friends. We
all have friends in law enforcements trying to get some
street guy a police officer to arrest someone because in
the argument I get a lot of times is well,
we told him not to come back to the property,
but we're really not sure he understood the warning, you know, Okay, Well,

(47:44):
then Baker acting, well, he's not crazy enough to Baker
act well, then arrest him because he's either crazy enough
to put in there because he's it can cause harm
himself for others, or he's he can't either can't take
care of self, or he can't. If you can't take
care of you self, he understand he's not supposed to
be back. He needs to go to jail because you've
got people out there. And the thing is is, I'm

(48:05):
an advocate for our clients, but you know, it's aggravating,
it's difficult, and the system's not designed to deal with
these people. They need to be given somewhere to stay
and kept there until they are sane enough to be
So what happened with that, just so everybody knows where
I'm coming from, what happened with that was the ACLU

(48:26):
went around the country and sued states for involuntarily holding
mentally ill people. That's why they emptied open the doors
and emptied the hospitals because of an ACLU lawsuit. And
their idea was over, they're involuntarily holding his people. Let's
let them out. You have to let them out. And
sure enough court said, yep, you got to let them out.

(48:46):
You're involved, you have no reason to keep them. That's
what started the Baker Act, where you can only hold
them for seventy two hours if they're a danger to
themselves or other physically, or they can't make enough of
a decision to take care of themselves.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
There got one that hangs out at the courthouse. She's
an elderly lady, carries a purse. If she thinks you're
a lawyer walking into the courthouse, she gonna chase you
down with that purse.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
Well, here's the rest of it. Now. Nothing was perfect
as nothing. Nothing's ever perfect in a state run nothing's
ever done perfectly in a state run hospital. But I
will tell you those people got medical care. They got
dental care. My grandmother worked at the dental clinic. I
know they got dental care. You know, I knew the
dentist up there. They get medical care, They get a warm,

(49:29):
dry or cool dry place to sleep, they get fed,
they get medical care, and they got dental care, and
they got mental health care. But they couldn't leave. If
they tried to leave, they would bring them back because
they could not function without heavy psychotropic drugs or whatever.
They couldn't function in society. And we because of a

(49:50):
lawsuit because somebody trying to do good for somebody. They
shut down the mental health system in the state. That
can be corrected. You can't tell me that that can't
be corrected by lawmakers.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
I think it can. And yeah, what and Trump talking
about bringing back he was talking about, but he's he
can't do it. You can't do it, just got.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
To do it.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
Yeah, that's not something to president of the executive branch
can do.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
That's something I have to go through due process. And
I had adjudicating mentally ill and you know right.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
But it can happen.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
It can be done, And I guarantee you that would
make a tremendous difference in our country.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
There's no question about it, no question. But I can't
tell you how many cases I've got of weird behavior
where there's a mental issue, or violent behavior where there's
an or or substance abuse. That was in court yesterday
over that. Yeah, guy ill try and self medicate.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Well, a whole bunch of those substance abuse come from
people trying to self medicate because they know something wrong
with it.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
You know what's going to make a difference, I think
is the is the is the video surveillance and the
stuff that's being released and if you look at that
little blondheaded girl getting stabbed and cut to death, and
you see the the you and that stuff is going
to make the news and it's going to be out
there again and again and again and the more time
that people don't understand how often this happens on our

(51:09):
very streets and our very community.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
The people that doesn't do anything about that ought to be.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
We gonna talk about fishing.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Well, we think me and Paul fit to get the
truck and go fishing. We'll tell you all about that
next week.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
There we will all So next week fishing stories