December 14, 2025 • 44 mins
In This Hour:
-- A gun rights activist in Australia gives his take on the mass murder event on Bondi Beach. David Brown explains how the change in that country's gun culture may have affected the reaction.
-- The ATF announced it's taking a 1-week "time out" on processing applications for suppressors before the $200 tax is removed. Knox Williams, from the American Suppressor Association explains what's going on.
-- He went to the gun store to buy one model, but everything changed when he handled a different one. The joy of finding that pistol that just fits perfectly.
Gun Talk 12.14.25 Hour1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- A gun rights activist in Australia gives his take on the mass murder event on Bondi Beach. David Brown explains how the change in that country's gun culture may have affected the reaction.
-- The ATF announced it's taking a 1-week "time out" on processing applications for suppressors before the $200 tax is removed. Knox Williams, from the American Suppressor Association explains what's going on.
-- He went to the gun store to buy one model, but everything changed when he handled a different one. The joy of finding that pistol that just fits perfectly.
Gun Talk 12.14.25 Hour1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
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Speaker 3 (00:29):
He was the first and he's still the best. For
thirty years, Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on
all things ballistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection. Be
part of it, Paul, Tom Talk Gun Now. Here's Tom.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Hey, welcome again to gun Talk. I'm Tom Gresham, your host.
Glad you could be with us. We get together every
week to got to shoot the breeze about guns and
shooting and the shooting sports and think or be competition
the Olympics. It could be hunting, reloading, bird shooting, trap shooting,
it doesn't matter. And of course we always talk about
the Second Amendment. If you want to be part of it,
(01:09):
give me a shout, pretty easy, just call me a
Tom Talk Gun Today. We're going to be talking about
a product that has been introduced and it's an add
on for a popular pistol from a major company.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
We'll have that for you.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Also an update on some of the important court cases
that are going on, and we're winning in a lot
of them. I mean, it's a slow process that's glacial
at times, but we're going to get an update on that.
But right now, I want to talk about something that's
going on. If you are interested in buying a suppressor.
The ATF just put out some information that they're going
(01:48):
to have a week long period when they're not going
to process applications. We wanted to get the real information
on that, so we went to the source. Right we're
talking with Knox Williams from the American Suppressor ASSOCIATIONNX. I
guess you're out there calling on congressional lawmakers and the
(02:08):
folks who are doing stuff.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
I mean, that's what you guys do, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (02:11):
That's our bread and butter.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Yes, sir, okay, So right now I see this news
that ATF says they're going to take a time out
or what are they calling this thing on processing suppress applications.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
Man, you know, that's a good question.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
I can't remember exactly what they're calling it, but they're
basically going to pause the receipt of Form ones in
Form fours between December twenty sixth and December thirty first.
So we'll resume back at basically twelve oh one am
on January first, in order to implement the changes from
OBBB the zero dollar tax.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Okay, the one big beautiful bill, and so I guess
we got to back up. There are probably people who
don't know, although you're living this all the time, so
you think everybody knows that starting January one, when you
get your suppressor and you do the registration on it,
there's no two hundred dollars tax anymore.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
That is absolutely correct.
Speaker 7 (03:04):
And how exciting is that, for the first time in
ninety one years, you will not have to pay a
punitive two hundred dollars tax to purchase a suppressor, short
per rifle, shot perl, shotgun, or any other weapon. I
could not be more excited about it. I think a
lot of people share that excitement. You know, to shame,
we weren't able to get these things out of the
NFA entirely, but you know, baby steps were working our
(03:25):
way there, and this is by far the most dynamic
change that has ever occurred in a positive way with
the National Firearms Act.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
You make a good point.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
I know there were a lot of people who were
really upset that we didn't get everything we wanted. Of course,
those of us who worked on this for a long
time just thinking, you don't understand. We've been working on
this thing for decades, I mean literally decades, and we
just got a huge step forward. You got to take
what you can get and then go back later and
try to get the rest.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Of it one hundred percent.
Speaker 7 (03:55):
You know, let's not throw the baby out with the
bathwater and the idea that there was a compromise. There
was no compromise told by the Senate Parliamentary in what
we could and could not do. We did the best
thing that we could do, and we got a huge
dynamic win. That's going to save law finding gun owners
hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
Speaker 6 (04:11):
That's a win in my book.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
You know. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (04:14):
We we also set the stage for ourselves to file
lawsuits by zeering out that tax. We believe that that
makes the registration requirements of the National Firearms Act unconstitutional.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
So this was not some accident, It wasn't just happenstance.
Speaker 7 (04:27):
This was all pure political calculation on our part and
it actually worked.
Speaker 6 (04:31):
And you know that is bearing fruit as we speak.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
That is amazing. All Right.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
So we have the two hundred dollars tax going away
first of the year. There is going to be a
little time out and so the last week of December,
ATF's not going to be processing these so and people say,
well I have to wait a week. I'm thinking yeah,
And two years ago you were waiting a year.
Speaker 7 (04:52):
Absolutely, And that's a testament to you know, actually good
work at the ATF. You know, we call those guys
out a lot for a lot of the bad things
that they've done. We also need to be able to
call them out for the good that they've done. And
the NF Division has done a fantastic job at streamlining
the process to purchase suppressors and other NFA adams. Granted,
I don't think that process should exist in the first place,
(05:13):
but it's not those guys fault that it does.
Speaker 6 (05:14):
That's that take that up with Congress, right.
Speaker 7 (05:17):
But you know, it's it's something where they really have
been tremendous partners. You know, about almost two years ago
we saw the wait times decrease. That was a dynamic change.
And then when President Trump came in, you know, things
really changed a lot. You look at the leadership that
they've got with guys like Robert Sicata, who's you know,
President Trump's nominee to become the permanent director, the Senate
(05:39):
confirmed director rather of the ATF.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
They have been truly fantastic to work with.
Speaker 7 (05:44):
We've got a lot of positive gains being able to
partner with those folks. And you know a large part
of that was the retirements, kind of the semi forced
retirements of a lot of the people within the government.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
That was fantastic.
Speaker 7 (05:57):
That cleared a lot of the riff raff out of
ATF and many other government agencies. But sorry, I could
go on for hours about this stuff.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
It really geass out. You get very excited.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
That's pretty exciting to see what's going on.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
And I know that people, if they're not involved with
it all the time, that they could Yeah, you know,
the ATF is still a problem. Well, the ATF is
always going to be a problem, but it is so
much better than it was. We're actually making progress, so
all right, So what's the likelihood. Just explain to people
there are lawsuits underway right now to try to get
rid of the NFA altogether, the National Firearms Act of
(06:30):
nineteen thirty four.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
If there's no tax, then there shouldn't.
Speaker 6 (06:33):
Meet a law absolutely.
Speaker 7 (06:35):
I mean, that's basically the exact point that we're contending,
you know. So it would apply to anything that.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
Had the tax eliminated through the One Be Beautiful bills.
Speaker 7 (06:43):
So that's suppressors that short parol firearms, including shrop rot
rifles and trip porol shotguns and any other weapons as
a category. And that's what we're trying to challenge is
the inclusion of those items in the National Firearms Act. Granted,
you know, we love nothing more than for you to
be able to go to a gun store and buy
a machine gun, but that tax remains. That was not removed.
Same for destructive devices. That tax was not eliminated in OBBB.
(07:05):
So there's no challenge on that, But there is a
challenge on all of the rest, basically asserting that Congress
doesn't have the power to create a registry on these
items without the tax that predicated that registry. That was
the entire justification of the NFRTR, the Federal Registry of
these items, and we believe it's unconstitutional.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
So what's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
You're talking of suppressure manufacturers and a lot of people
will wake up January one and go, oh wow, there's
no tax, even though we've been talking about it for
six months and a lot of it are going to say,
I'm going to buy a suppressor now.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Two things.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Are you expecting a lot more sales? The number two?
How's that going to affect price and availability?
Speaker 6 (07:49):
Availability? That's that's a great question.
Speaker 7 (07:51):
If I was looking to purchase a suppressor, I would
be buying it now. And you can make the decision
on whether or not you want to submit the paperwork
with the two hundred dollars tax or wait until January
first to file without it. Expect the way times to
go up a little bit, you know, hopefully it's not
super significant. ATF's had you know, about six months to
prep for this, and they've been doing a really good
job of clearing out the backlog and making sure that
(08:12):
they're starting, you know, you know, basically with it as
clean as late as possible. And that's really the justification
for the pause on Form one and Form four submissions
is when they transfer out of the tax paid applications
to the zero tax applications. You know, atf you know
they won't be able to process the ones where people
have paid. It's it's technical, it's frustrating, it's annoying. If
(08:34):
you're looking to buy a suppressor, now's the time. There's
no time like the president because we don't exactly know
what availability is going to look like, you know, moving forward.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
In the long term, it will stabilize. I don't expect
prices to go up.
Speaker 7 (08:46):
I don't expect you know, there's no chatter that I've
heard from anybody saying, oh, well, now that the tax
is gone, we're going to raise our prices.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
I'm hearing none of that.
Speaker 7 (08:54):
Frankly, there's really never been a better time to be
a consumer trying to get into suppress or other ensh.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, because there are some incredible prices. Because you know,
the thing people need to understand is it is a
very competitive market. You got a lot of companies making suppressors,
and they are battling for market share.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 7 (09:11):
You know, you've got the big boys, you've got the
small mom and pop shops.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
You've got tons of people coming in. There's so many
that I can't keep up with it.
Speaker 7 (09:18):
I'm getting texts all the time from friends, Hey, do
you know the suppressor manufacturers?
Speaker 6 (09:22):
Like man, I thought I knew everybody.
Speaker 7 (09:23):
I sure don't, you know, And we make it our
business to know, you know, what's going on in the industry,
which is so exciting. It's so neat to really see
kind of the renaissance in suppressors, in the manufacturing and
the technology. It's something that when we formed ASA and
twenty eleven, Man, there was a few big players and
that was about it. And now it's just it's becoming
(09:45):
so mainstream and that's so exciting.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
It really is. Well NOTx Williams.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
You guys have done amazing work at American Suppression Association
and we're getting the benefit of that with the two
hundred dollars tax going away.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Congratulations.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 7 (09:59):
And one thing I I'd like to add is, you know, look,
we've got these lawsuits. We feel confident that we're going
to win them, but it's important to note that it's
going to take some time, right, Like we're talking years,
not months. Ah, So you know, as we work through this.
You know, if anybody's listening with the expectation of oh man,
you know the tax is going away. Let me just
wait a couple more months and these things are going
(10:19):
to be out of the National Firems Act.
Speaker 6 (10:21):
You're going to be waiting for a very long time.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
It takes a while so clit cases to make their
way through the courts.
Speaker 7 (10:26):
Not only do we need to go through trial court
and then through district then we've got to appeal to
the Supreme Court to take a question of if or
when they would take our cases. And that's part of
the strategy why we've got multiple cases, three on the
same thing that will ultimately have filed, and that's that's
to increase the odds of us being able to successfully
petition up to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
That's really where the fight is.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Well, there you go again. Thanks so much for what
you do and thanks for sharing the information here.
Speaker 6 (10:51):
Yes, sir, thank you.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
All right, don't go far. We'll be right back with
more gun talk.
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Speaker 8 (13:01):
Hey this Shiny Dirry from Derry's Guns.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Welcome back to gun Talk.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
All right, you can give you a call right now
at eight sixty six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun.
If there's something on your mind, you're watching something in
the news that sparked a thought, just something you want
to weigh in on, that's fine, we'll talk about it.
If it's a gun you want to know about, call me.
We'll figure it out. If there's one you want to
tell me about, you know, we call those range reports
where you go out and shoot something and have some
(13:28):
fun with it, or maybe you had an interesting experience
with the family or at a gun store. It really
doesn't matter. We're just honestly we're just swapping stories. I'm
Tom Gresham by the way, if you want to follow
you over on x which.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
Is where I hang out a lot.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I am at gun talk over there, and of course
you can follow gun talk everywhere. We have Instagram and
Facebook and YouTube and pretty much everything any kind of
social media.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
You'll find gun talk everywhere. All right, I'm watching the news.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
And just a few minutes we're going to be visiting
with a friend of mine from Australia and he's got
some men's sight and some intel on the horrible mass
murders that just took place there yesterday. Some thoughts there.
I was thinking about that, and you know, it is tempting,
(14:20):
honestly for me. I have to resist it as much
as I can. To get preachy about stuff or to
get changeful or somebody said, oh, you're always wagging your
finger at people. Yeah, I guess I am. At times.
I apologize for that kind of At the same time,
if you had a friend who would never put on
his or her seat belt and you thought that was dumb,
(14:43):
would you nag them?
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Yeah? You might.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
And if I have friends, all of you and a
lot of you don't take this stuff seriously in terms
of protecting yourself and your family. Occasionally, come on, I'm
going to nag that's just what it is, because I
think it's important. I've been through the deal of Oh,
I've been shooting all my life. I don't need this,
(15:09):
I know how to shoot, I carry a gun, all
the stuff, all those things I've heard. And then you
go take your first real self defensed training class and
you have that epiphany and it's exhilarating and embarrassing at
(15:30):
the same time. It's exhilarating because you're learning stuff. You're going, whoa, oh,
there's a lot here, and this is interesting and it's
actually fun to learn and all the rest of it.
At the same time, it's embarrassing because you're thinking, I
really was fooling myself. I really didn't know what I
(15:51):
was talking about. And now I realize that two more
knowledgeable people I sounded they're foolish. And that was a
feeling I had. And so now I turn around and
there was nothing worse than a reform center. Yeah, I
get it, and I want to say, look, let me
(16:13):
tell you, this is what you need to know. And
I keep trying to find ways that maybe have an impact.
And here's the deal. I'm not talking to all of
you out there.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
I'm not.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I'm talking to you one person, just the you, the
person between your ears who's listening to this right now.
To forget everybody else. It's just you, You and me.
Don't worry about anybody else. And the question is it
better each day to wake up thinking, oh, it's pretty
(16:46):
safe where I go. Nothing's ever going to happen. It's
highly unlikely that anything's going to happen. I don't need
to do that today. Or would it be a better
approach each day when you say, Okay, this is the
(17:07):
day it's going to happen. I am prepared for that.
I have taken the steps needed. I'm carrying what I need.
I've taken classes, I've spent the money, I've devoted the time.
I may never need it, but if I need it,
I'm going to need it more than anything in the world.
(17:29):
It is a choice. I can't make that choice for you.
I can't make the commitment for you. I can't go
sign up for a class. I can't buy the right
holster and belt and gun and lights and mag pouches
and magazines and tourniquets, all that stuff. I get it.
(17:51):
It's a commitment of time and money. And at the
same time, don't you think we actually tell the world
what we consider to be important by what we're willing
to invest time and money. Yet we can say yep,
safety is important to me, protecting my family is important
(18:13):
to me.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
And those are good words.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
But if you're not putting your time and money towards that,
is that all those things really important to you, don't
just different ways of looking at things that I'm always
trying to find another way that might have some impact
to say, Okay, this is something you need to do.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
Here's a question for you. For those of you who have.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Actually done this, here's my call out to you, say, Okay,
maybe you can help me out. When you took your
first real class and really went through this, be it
at Thunder Ranch or Gunside or Sick Academy or any
of the schools. Now, I'm talking self defense training. I'm
not talking about marketsmanship training. At rains Ready studios, we
(19:02):
teach marksmanship. We don't do the full class on self
defense stuff. We tell people, look, you need to go
to these other places for that. But if you've had
one of these classes. What was your reaction to the
first time you went through it, and what was your
takeaway as you're talking to your friends, I would love
to get your take on that. Let's go talk to
(19:25):
Steve online. Two out of Texas. Say Steve, you're on
gun Talk. Thanks for calling in. What's up?
Speaker 11 (19:31):
Yeah, Hi, Tom. I've had a problem last couple of years.
I've been trying to get a red dot site on
my Ruger SR forty C. Nobody will install it. There's
an adapter for it, but you need a site press
and really you should know what you're doing. So I'm
going to self enable. The bad news is I have
(19:55):
to buy another gun. The good news is I get
to buy another gun.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
I just I'm not hearing any bad news here.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 11 (20:03):
I'm so like I said, I'm self enabling on this one.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
There you go.
Speaker 11 (20:07):
And I walked into Academy Sports and I walked up
to him and I said, I'd like to take a
look at a double stack nineteen eleven and nine milimeter.
That's the hot gun everybody's buying now, so it sounds
like the right way to go. And he showed me
the Springfield Prodigy was the first Then he showed me
(20:27):
what I really liked it, but I asked, is there
anything else? And then he brought out a camp a
Kimber KDS nine C. When I picked that gun up,
oh my gosh, I've never picked up a gun that
said load me and shooting me. I mean, well, I
knew it instantly. It was a luminum frame, and that
(20:49):
gun has light. It's got a double spring unlike regular
nineteen eleven's to manage recoil it just and it's Kimber.
You know it's going to be good quality. I just
wondered if you've heard anything about it.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
Or yeah, talk, Look, here's the deal.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
You have passed the ninety percent test already when you
picked it up and talked to you and saying to
you and said, I am the one you need to
take me home.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Came on, big boy, let's go to your place.
Speaker 12 (21:15):
You know.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
It's kind of one of those meals.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah, so, I mean, you're already ninety percent there and
it's gonna shoot. Well, it's not gonna be a problem.
So the only real question is why would you hesitate?
And look, let's go back to the original thought. If
you're going to put a red out site on some
of these older guns, it's it's difficult to put them on.
Buy one of the modern guns, it's already set up.
It's easy to put a red dot on it, an
(21:38):
optic on it. Look, the only thing left for you
to do is go put down the money and buy
this gun, put the optic on it, and go out
and shoot it, and then your obligations to call us
back with full range report.
Speaker 11 (21:49):
What do you think, Oh, you'll get one yep?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Okay, that works for me. Look, I think that's the
way to go. You're not going to make a mistake here.
And you've done the good part, which is put it
in your hands, and when you pick it up.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
You go, oh, oh, I love the way that feels.
There's not a lot left in the deal.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
I mean, as long as you're buying a quality gun,
if it speaks to you, it feels good to you,
buy it, go out and shoot it. Worst case you
don't like it. After you shoot it, you sell it,
you go buy another gun. Okay, big deal. When we
come back, I want to talk about this mass shooting
that just happened in Australia and what.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
You personally can take away from that. This is important.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
All right, we're back with you here, Tom grashing me with
his gun talk. There's something going on and news broke
when we got up this morning. We hear about terrible
shooting going on or just finished in Australia. And there
are so many takeaways from this and we're very fortunate.
I was able to grab my friend. He's a pilot buddy,
(22:56):
a shooting buddy, a gun sight graduate. David Brown joins.
Just right now, David, you shot me a note in
the middle of the night when I was sleeping, and
you're about half of a world away right now.
Speaker 13 (23:07):
They were about half a day in front. Tom.
Speaker 12 (23:10):
It's almost Monday morning. Yes, this story broke this evening
out of Sydney. And for your listeners, many of you
would know Bondai Beach. It's very famous. It's like a
Wikiki or a Malibu or what have you. It's a
major tourist area. But it has been an area subject
to let's call it racial slash, terrorists, hype activities in
(23:34):
the past.
Speaker 13 (23:35):
So there is a bit of history in that part
of the world. But the most.
Speaker 12 (23:40):
Significant thing that came out of it very early on
was this was a targeted terrorist attack. There was a
Jewish community Haneker events, lots of kids involved in. Someone
has gotten together with a few friends and obviously playing
this and you just don't know when evil's going to
rock up on your all step are on your celebratory
(24:02):
event in basically a major popular area.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
As we're talking right now, I guess the news is
twelve dead.
Speaker 12 (24:13):
That's possibly going to climb. There's at least thirty in hospital.
Speaker 13 (24:17):
So how many.
Speaker 12 (24:18):
Whether it's twelve, it's still terrible. I've identified three from footage.
The official news so far only identifies too. But it
is absolutely clear there is a third one. One's dead,
ones in hospital may not survive. The police obviously did
a good job with those two. A third one would
(24:39):
appear to have escaped.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
And I'm looking at video here, I guess, and you
tell me there's actually more than one. One citizen tried
to stop one of the guys and got killed. But
I'm looking at video of another citizen who came up
behind one of the shooters, grabbed him, spun him around,
disarmed him, and then clearly didn't know what to do
with the gun once he had the gun taken away.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
That's the long gun.
Speaker 12 (25:03):
Yeah, it struck me watching it because I have a
different view to maybe the most Australians, probably more aligned
with your listeners, and that was he's effectively disarmed this
guy whilst hiding behind a large tree from the other shooters.
He's not been able to run the gun in self defense.
(25:24):
In the end, it probably didn't matter, however, you don't know.
He's certainly saved lives. Maybe he could have saved a
few more, but a heroic action on his behalf. But
it strikes me that, you know, maybe the years of
less gun culture in this country has led to more
and more people in society not being able to run
(25:47):
a firearm when they absolutely need to. And you've talked
about this many times. Your gun might not be the
gun you have on the day that you need to
operate someone else's you pick up in the battlefield. So
that was one thing that struck me. But I will
say it was good to see that people did fight back.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
There are of course a lot of people here who think, oh, yeah,
well in Australia there are no guns.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
Well that's not true. I mean you can own guns
in Australia, correct.
Speaker 12 (26:17):
Correct, And you know they'd be out of a population
of twenty five twenty six million, they'd be well north
of a million, probably one million and a quarter million
and a half gun owners.
Speaker 13 (26:28):
So yes, we have them, but we don't have.
Speaker 12 (26:32):
A Second Amendment kind of protection for any gun rights.
But we also don't have concealed carry or anything like that.
So one of the other things that I've noticed just
watching the commentary is this event lasted nine minutes. And
I've heard you talk about it on the program many
a time. Seconds seconds, seconds is dead people or injured
(26:55):
people nine minutes?
Speaker 13 (26:57):
Now when seconds count?
Speaker 12 (26:59):
In this case, the police were really really close because
Bondi Police station is just down the road, four minutes
until the first portion of interaction occurred, and it still
took five minutes to, as you call it, deactivate the situation.
So having someone on the spot diligently trained and to
(27:22):
your point, training, training, training, may have saved many, many lives.
So I look at this from an external point of view. Yeah,
sure the cops got there in record time, but it
could have been better.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Well, I mean, I'm thinking about you and your wife
were both guns like graduates. Had you been there and
had you been able to have your guns, it's not
that you prevent it from happening, but you can shortened
the amount of time. And when you shorten the amount
of time, you reduced the number of people who get
murdered absolutely.
Speaker 12 (27:53):
In fact, I was listening to a young fellow who
pulled up and rendered first aid to a police officer,
and the first thing that crossed my mind was had
that been Lisa or I, one of us would have
done the first aid. One would have said, give me
a glock or whatever it is they carry. I think
their blocks in Sydney, and I'll go engage, provide cover
while we give you first aid. I don't think even
(28:16):
the average American might think they're good for it. But
unless you've gone and done force on force training, get
into those shootouse situations like you and I have been in,
and Lisa has been in at gun site where they're
shooting at you, your body won't go where your mind's
not been before. And I sort of think, well, there
(28:36):
was an opportunity, maybe missed.
Speaker 13 (28:39):
So takeaways, be prepared, be trained.
Speaker 12 (28:44):
The other thing is how many people were carrying a
torniquit or any first aid, Because we saw images of
people with shrapnel wounds to their heads and what have
you the ambulances were there, but they weren't there at
second zero.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
A lot of takeaways, and you know, one of them is,
as we've talked about, no place is safe. People say, well,
that's a safe place. There are a lot of people,
it's a public area. Well, this is a public area
visited by people really from all over the world and
it's a popular destination. And then you have it sounds
like three people who decided we're going to go murder
people there because we don't like them for whatever reason.
(29:23):
Then the reason doesn't really matter in terms of practical aspect.
It's just they wanted to kill people, and there's no
one there who had the ability to stop it effectively.
I mean, yeah, I mean I'm proud that people were
willing to jump on a guy with a gun and
because that's well, that's all they had. They had no
(29:44):
choice either you do it with your bare hands, bare
hands against the guy with a gun, or you just simply,
you know, run and hide or die.
Speaker 12 (29:53):
Yeah, and if you consider this, there would have been
a thousand people that they're gathering, so it was a
target rich environment, no ability to shoot back, and yeah,
hand to hand combat was what some successfully and some
unsuccessfully tried.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
You have been started to say you were involved in
the Australian Second Amendment movement, but you don't have a
second amendment, so we have to say you're very much
involved in gun rights movement in Australia. And do you
know the people, you know, the politicians, you know, what
do you expect to be the reaction to this?
Speaker 12 (30:28):
That's that's the question, because the way things happen here
tends to be different to what your listeners would be
used to. Often down the track there'll be inquiries and
what have you, and then there'll be a call for
more gun control. The response, hopefully is this is an
act of terrorism and there's one point something million gun
(30:50):
owners in Australia with millions and millions of firearms, did
not commit venus crimes today. Therefore they leave us alone
focus on the terrorism.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Yeah, we know that's not lad, but.
Speaker 12 (31:04):
You can be sure. You can be sure there's going
to be something. So we as people in the firearm
community need to just be patient, sit back, analyze the facts,
and then be prepared to rationally discuss, negotiate.
Speaker 13 (31:22):
And push back on any unrealistic.
Speaker 12 (31:26):
Attempts of introducing other gun control that, as you know,
fails miserably everywhere it did.
Speaker 13 (31:35):
It did here.
Speaker 12 (31:36):
Yeah, actually, yeah, we've got all the gun laws didn't work.
In fact, I thought terrorism was illegal too.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Now there's all of that all right, Let's move to
more pleasant topic. Let's talk about your latest firearm acquisition.
Speaker 13 (31:52):
Ah, the GT thirty that made it down Under.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
You were able to, dare I say, smuggle Australia.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
You didn't really, but the.
Speaker 12 (32:04):
FEDS will be knocking on our doors, so you're aware.
But maybe not everyone. Obviously a lot of people in Australia.
There's a big gun culture here. Shipping of arms around
the world is a difficult process. Fortunately, one of the
dealers here in Australia that is a big supporter of
our advocacy work Cleavers Firearms. They have a shareholder and
(32:29):
a business in Michigan, so Doury's.
Speaker 13 (32:32):
I spoke to Johnny Durry on the.
Speaker 12 (32:33):
Phone and as you know, hell of a great guy.
I met him once before years ago. He arranged for
them to be shipped to the FFL and Michigan. They
do all the export stuff import into Australia.
Speaker 13 (32:45):
It's all done with all the rules.
Speaker 12 (32:48):
Followed in the protocols and they eventually turn up at
Cleaver's here in Australia and POLICEA and I and so
we bought one, one for my wife, one for my
daughter and one for my son and that was their
sort of birthday Christmas presents. They've been mounted with some
loophole three to nine befoty CDs scopes and this weekend
(33:11):
we'll go and run a bunch of different loads through
them and see what accuracy we get.
Speaker 13 (33:16):
And I'm hoping for good things.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
I think you will be very pleased. And you're telling
me you really like it. It is a rifle that
you look at and you think, well that's short and
clubby and it's not going to handle very well, and
it surprises you when you pick it up.
Speaker 13 (33:30):
It does.
Speaker 12 (33:31):
And let me sell guns here on behalf of Lipsy's
so as you know that was a limited edition and
several hundred were made, but for anyone listening that.
Speaker 13 (33:41):
Was foolish enough not to order one.
Speaker 12 (33:44):
When you pick these things up, they swing like a
really nice shotgun. I was out of all the rifles
Teekers and other rugas. You pick this up and shoulder
it and it just feels nice. It's nicely weighted, great
hunting rifle. I would suggest the Lipsey's exclusive and you
(34:06):
could probably expand on that.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
Yeah, let me explain, because even though.
Speaker 12 (34:09):
It's readily available to everyone else basically minus the gun talker.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Yeah, this after we helped design this rifle and we
did a short run of GT thirties for gun Talk,
Lipsy's said, well, we're just going to keep doing this
because this is a really cool rifle. So Lipsy's being
the national firearms distributor, your local gun store can order
this rifle from Lipsy's and you can have it in
in like two days, and so it's still available even
(34:36):
though it's not available through gun Talk.
Speaker 12 (34:38):
Interestingly enough, cleavers down here who normally procure all their
RUGA products through Nia, the major importer, they are bringing
a bunch of the same guns and they must have
loved them enough that they ordered from Lipsey's. You know,
special batches that wouldn't otherwise find their way to Australia.
(35:01):
So yeah, that gun's caught the attention of a lot
of people.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Let's do a shout out here for your buddy does reviews.
Speaker 12 (35:11):
I can tell you he's a big and probably a
lot of your listeners will have seen his video material
Assie reviews. He is a staunch let's call it the
down under version of Second Amendment work that people like
Shooters Union actively pursue.
Speaker 13 (35:27):
But I've also managed to pick up a couple of
his Lithgo.
Speaker 12 (35:29):
Rifles recently stuck a couple of scopes on them today,
so they'll be coming to the farm with me with
the rugas and we'll be doing a bit of load development.
But yeah, he is an absolute champion of gun rights defense.
But if you like really good firearm reviews, go to
his YouTube channel and support that page. Very informative, very professional,
(35:55):
no yahooing. I think Tom, you would probably rate that
as being a professional level page.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
Very Austinie Reviews, Ozzie correct. Yeah, okay, very good.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
All right, we'll do that. David Brown, thank you for
bringing this to my attention. I'm sorry for what's going
on down there, and you know the reaction will be
predictable with the calls for even more effectless gun control.
That won't work because it never does. But it is
on an individual level, and that's I think what we
want to you and I want to talk about. On
an individual level, it's a reminder to people to be aware,
(36:28):
be alert, have a plan, talk to your family if
something like this happens, what are you going to do?
And particularly if you're in a place where you can't
have your own gun, be aware that, you know, go
get some training in other kinds of guns. If you
don't know how to run an ak, that's probably what
you've got to find on the ground.
Speaker 13 (36:47):
Be aware of all the different sorts.
Speaker 12 (36:49):
You know, you pick up a Burretta ninety two compared
to a block, they're subtly different.
Speaker 13 (36:55):
Pick up an IR fifteen versus an ak.
Speaker 12 (36:58):
You know, various different right shotguns, semi auto shotguns, leave
erection shotguns, be away because you just never know what
you might need to pick up. It might be that
you've got to come to the defense of a police officer.
What do they carry around?
Speaker 4 (37:14):
And can you if you pick up a gun that
has jammed, can you unjam it and get it back
into the fight again. David Brown, thank you so much
for this. I appreciate that, sir, Very.
Speaker 13 (37:23):
Christmas, you too from down Under.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
I was able to grab that interview with David.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
It was midnight there when I was talking to him,
at like six or seven o'clock in the morning here.
Speaker 5 (37:36):
I appreciate him taking time. David is really.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
One of the top activists, if you will, for gun
rights in Australia. Serious shooter gun guy. One of the
things we talked about that we didn't put on the
air it was the idea of learning to shoot a
lot of different guns and a really fun way to
do that. Just invite several of your friends to go
(38:03):
out to the range at the same time. And I'm
probably not at them in the door shooting range, which
is regular. You need to go out somewhere you can
set up a table and put a dozen or three
dozen guns out there and take turns shooting everybody else's guns.
You know, can you run that? How do you operate that?
How does this work? Show me how this thing works? Pistols, revolvers, semiautos,
(38:27):
bolt actions, lever actions, whatever, So you have some level
of familiarity that is current, because if you shot it
thirty years ago, you may not remember all those details
on this switch and what does that do? And how
do I get the safety off? Just besides that, it's
fun to go do that, and after why you realize
I can pick up anything and run it. If it's
(38:48):
a semi auto pistol and it's jammed tap rack, I
can forget about ninety percent of the malfunctions fixed just
with that. If you don't know what I'm talking about,
when I see tap rack, here it comes again. Training,
Go take a class, tap rack figure it all out.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
Eight sixty six. Talk done. What is your take on this?
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Where are you in terms of making a commitment to
protecting yourself and your family? I'm Tom Gresham. This is
gun talk. Give me a shout. I continue to read
stories news stories about the Bondy Beach terror attack in Australia.
(39:34):
Terrorists they just showed up to kill people. Lots of people, men, women, children,
didn't matter. They were killing them all, shooting them all, shooting, reloading,
stuffing in mags, just hosing them down. Very much like
the October seventh massacre in Israel where the terrorists, the
(39:58):
most terrorists came in and just murdered people, men, women
and children.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
Same deal, probably same people, the same line of thinking.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Anyway, if you get a chance, go find the video
it's online everywhere now of the guy who ended up
disarming one of the murderers comes up behind him, grabs
him spins him around, takes the gun from him. And
while that's good it worked out for him, it could
have gone a different way because he didn't shoot the
guy after he took the gun away from him, and
(40:28):
the murderer could easily have pulled out a gun, a
second gun, and shot this good Samaritan. If it happened here,
let's take Australia out of it. If it happened here,
where you have the chance in most states of carrying
a gun, and if you were precient enough and smart
(40:50):
enough to be carrying your gun, and all you see
is this guy's back, is he's shooting people. Have you
made the mental to a commitment already to shoot him
in the back. God? I hope so, I hope you're
not suffering from the silly movie idea of you don't
shoot people in the back.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
Yeah you do.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
If that's the side you got, you shoot the side
you got, because the idea is to make them quit
shooting other people. They're killing other people, They're killing kids
and murdering children. Shooting in the back, shooting in the side,
shooting me in the head, shooting the leg, shooting me
in the ankle, shooting the foot, wherever you got to do.
If you're behind a car, lay on your side on
(41:33):
the ground, you can shoot under a car and shoot
somebody in the ankle. Trust me, you got their attention.
Oh wow, I never thought of that. That's what we
do in training. We get down on the ground, We
get behind the wheel of a car, laid down and
shoot underneath the car and shoot the targets on the
(41:53):
other side. Not only is it good training, and know
what else it is, it's fun. I mean that's a
fun thing to do. Go wow, I didn't know I
could do that.
Speaker 5 (42:05):
Huh.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
And it really forces you to focus. Forget everything else,
get on the sites, impress the trigger. There's nothing else. Yeah,
the gun sideways, it's ninety degrees to the ground. Yeah,
you're laying on the ground. Yeah, the gun is one
inch or two inches off the ground. And if you're
(42:27):
doing it with an ar, which we do, you gotta
be careful about the ejection because if you've got the
right side of the gun down toward the ground, the
empties can go out and hit the grounds. You gotta
find a way to make sure you don't induce a jam.
Another of those things where you get the intop thing.
I never thought of that. Yeah, that's why we go
(42:49):
to these places. But it is fun. I gotta tell you.
This kind of training is tons of fun. So just
you might add a class to your Christmas list, whether
you're giving it to somebody else or give it to
yourself or doing it. Hey, I want to do that,
and I'm going to take you with me, and we're
gonna go have fun and do this kind of class somewhere.
(43:12):
I signed up for another gun site class. Gonna do
that at least right now. Schedule for me? Do I
need another two fifty pistol class at gun Site? I
could say I've had two or three of them and
I don't need that, but I know better, Yes, of
course I need that.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
It's called recurrent training.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
I just signed up for a recurrent training class three
days of flying airplanes in the back country of Idaho.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
I've been flying for forty two years. Do I need that?
Speaker 4 (43:36):
Yes, of course I need that, because you get rusty
and you get people to show you things, and if
I learned one thing out of the class, then the
class was worthwhile.
Speaker 5 (43:45):
I am a big believer in recurrent training.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
When we come back, we have some good things happening
in the courts when it relates to the Second Amendment,
we'll have it updates
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Speaker 3 (00:29):
He was the first and he's still the best. For
thirty years, Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on
all things ballistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection. Be
part of it, Paul, Tom Talk Gun Now. Here's Tom.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Hey, welcome again to gun Talk. I'm Tom Gresham, your host.
Glad you could be with us. We get together every
week to got to shoot the breeze about guns and
shooting and the shooting sports and think or be competition
the Olympics. It could be hunting, reloading, bird shooting, trap shooting,
it doesn't matter. And of course we always talk about
the Second Amendment. If you want to be part of it,
(01:09):
give me a shout, pretty easy, just call me a
Tom Talk Gun Today. We're going to be talking about
a product that has been introduced and it's an add
on for a popular pistol from a major company.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
We'll have that for you.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Also an update on some of the important court cases
that are going on, and we're winning in a lot
of them. I mean, it's a slow process that's glacial
at times, but we're going to get an update on that.
But right now, I want to talk about something that's
going on. If you are interested in buying a suppressor.
The ATF just put out some information that they're going
(01:48):
to have a week long period when they're not going
to process applications. We wanted to get the real information
on that, so we went to the source. Right we're
talking with Knox Williams from the American Suppressor ASSOCIATIONNX. I
guess you're out there calling on congressional lawmakers and the
(02:08):
folks who are doing stuff.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
I mean, that's what you guys do, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (02:11):
That's our bread and butter.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Yes, sir, okay, So right now I see this news
that ATF says they're going to take a time out
or what are they calling this thing on processing suppress applications.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
Man, you know, that's a good question.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
I can't remember exactly what they're calling it, but they're
basically going to pause the receipt of Form ones in
Form fours between December twenty sixth and December thirty first.
So we'll resume back at basically twelve oh one am
on January first, in order to implement the changes from
OBBB the zero dollar tax.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Okay, the one big beautiful bill, and so I guess
we got to back up. There are probably people who
don't know, although you're living this all the time, so
you think everybody knows that starting January one, when you
get your suppressor and you do the registration on it,
there's no two hundred dollars tax anymore.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
That is absolutely correct.
Speaker 7 (03:04):
And how exciting is that, for the first time in
ninety one years, you will not have to pay a
punitive two hundred dollars tax to purchase a suppressor, short
per rifle, shot perl, shotgun, or any other weapon. I
could not be more excited about it. I think a
lot of people share that excitement. You know, to shame,
we weren't able to get these things out of the
NFA entirely, but you know, baby steps were working our
(03:25):
way there, and this is by far the most dynamic
change that has ever occurred in a positive way with
the National Firearms Act.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
You make a good point.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
I know there were a lot of people who were
really upset that we didn't get everything we wanted. Of course,
those of us who worked on this for a long
time just thinking, you don't understand. We've been working on
this thing for decades, I mean literally decades, and we
just got a huge step forward. You got to take
what you can get and then go back later and
try to get the rest.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Of it one hundred percent.
Speaker 7 (03:55):
You know, let's not throw the baby out with the
bathwater and the idea that there was a compromise. There
was no compromise told by the Senate Parliamentary in what
we could and could not do. We did the best
thing that we could do, and we got a huge
dynamic win. That's going to save law finding gun owners
hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
Speaker 6 (04:11):
That's a win in my book.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
You know. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (04:14):
We we also set the stage for ourselves to file
lawsuits by zeering out that tax. We believe that that
makes the registration requirements of the National Firearms Act unconstitutional.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
So this was not some accident, It wasn't just happenstance.
Speaker 7 (04:27):
This was all pure political calculation on our part and
it actually worked.
Speaker 6 (04:31):
And you know that is bearing fruit as we speak.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
That is amazing. All Right.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
So we have the two hundred dollars tax going away
first of the year. There is going to be a
little time out and so the last week of December,
ATF's not going to be processing these so and people say,
well I have to wait a week. I'm thinking yeah,
And two years ago you were waiting a year.
Speaker 7 (04:52):
Absolutely, And that's a testament to you know, actually good
work at the ATF. You know, we call those guys
out a lot for a lot of the bad things
that they've done. We also need to be able to
call them out for the good that they've done. And
the NF Division has done a fantastic job at streamlining
the process to purchase suppressors and other NFA adams. Granted,
I don't think that process should exist in the first place,
(05:13):
but it's not those guys fault that it does.
Speaker 6 (05:14):
That's that take that up with Congress, right.
Speaker 7 (05:17):
But you know, it's it's something where they really have
been tremendous partners. You know, about almost two years ago
we saw the wait times decrease. That was a dynamic change.
And then when President Trump came in, you know, things
really changed a lot. You look at the leadership that
they've got with guys like Robert Sicata, who's you know,
President Trump's nominee to become the permanent director, the Senate
(05:39):
confirmed director rather of the ATF.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
They have been truly fantastic to work with.
Speaker 7 (05:44):
We've got a lot of positive gains being able to
partner with those folks. And you know a large part
of that was the retirements, kind of the semi forced
retirements of a lot of the people within the government.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
That was fantastic.
Speaker 7 (05:57):
That cleared a lot of the riff raff out of
ATF and many other government agencies. But sorry, I could
go on for hours about this stuff.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
It really geass out. You get very excited.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
That's pretty exciting to see what's going on.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
And I know that people, if they're not involved with
it all the time, that they could Yeah, you know,
the ATF is still a problem. Well, the ATF is
always going to be a problem, but it is so
much better than it was. We're actually making progress, so
all right, So what's the likelihood. Just explain to people
there are lawsuits underway right now to try to get
rid of the NFA altogether, the National Firearms Act of
(06:30):
nineteen thirty four.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
If there's no tax, then there shouldn't.
Speaker 6 (06:33):
Meet a law absolutely.
Speaker 7 (06:35):
I mean, that's basically the exact point that we're contending,
you know. So it would apply to anything that.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
Had the tax eliminated through the One Be Beautiful bills.
Speaker 7 (06:43):
So that's suppressors that short parol firearms, including shrop rot
rifles and trip porol shotguns and any other weapons as
a category. And that's what we're trying to challenge is
the inclusion of those items in the National Firearms Act. Granted,
you know, we love nothing more than for you to
be able to go to a gun store and buy
a machine gun, but that tax remains. That was not removed.
Same for destructive devices. That tax was not eliminated in OBBB.
(07:05):
So there's no challenge on that, But there is a
challenge on all of the rest, basically asserting that Congress
doesn't have the power to create a registry on these
items without the tax that predicated that registry. That was
the entire justification of the NFRTR, the Federal Registry of
these items, and we believe it's unconstitutional.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
So what's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
You're talking of suppressure manufacturers and a lot of people
will wake up January one and go, oh wow, there's
no tax, even though we've been talking about it for
six months and a lot of it are going to say,
I'm going to buy a suppressor now.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Two things.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Are you expecting a lot more sales? The number two?
How's that going to affect price and availability?
Speaker 6 (07:49):
Availability? That's that's a great question.
Speaker 7 (07:51):
If I was looking to purchase a suppressor, I would
be buying it now. And you can make the decision
on whether or not you want to submit the paperwork
with the two hundred dollars tax or wait until January
first to file without it. Expect the way times to
go up a little bit, you know, hopefully it's not
super significant. ATF's had you know, about six months to
prep for this, and they've been doing a really good
job of clearing out the backlog and making sure that
(08:12):
they're starting, you know, you know, basically with it as
clean as late as possible. And that's really the justification
for the pause on Form one and Form four submissions
is when they transfer out of the tax paid applications
to the zero tax applications. You know, atf you know
they won't be able to process the ones where people
have paid. It's it's technical, it's frustrating, it's annoying. If
(08:34):
you're looking to buy a suppressor, now's the time. There's
no time like the president because we don't exactly know
what availability is going to look like, you know, moving forward.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
In the long term, it will stabilize. I don't expect
prices to go up.
Speaker 7 (08:46):
I don't expect you know, there's no chatter that I've
heard from anybody saying, oh, well, now that the tax
is gone, we're going to raise our prices.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
I'm hearing none of that.
Speaker 7 (08:54):
Frankly, there's really never been a better time to be
a consumer trying to get into suppress or other ensh.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, because there are some incredible prices. Because you know,
the thing people need to understand is it is a
very competitive market. You got a lot of companies making suppressors,
and they are battling for market share.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 7 (09:11):
You know, you've got the big boys, you've got the
small mom and pop shops.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
You've got tons of people coming in. There's so many
that I can't keep up with it.
Speaker 7 (09:18):
I'm getting texts all the time from friends, Hey, do
you know the suppressor manufacturers?
Speaker 6 (09:22):
Like man, I thought I knew everybody.
Speaker 7 (09:23):
I sure don't, you know, And we make it our
business to know, you know, what's going on in the industry,
which is so exciting. It's so neat to really see
kind of the renaissance in suppressors, in the manufacturing and
the technology. It's something that when we formed ASA and
twenty eleven, Man, there was a few big players and
that was about it. And now it's just it's becoming
(09:45):
so mainstream and that's so exciting.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
It really is. Well NOTx Williams.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
You guys have done amazing work at American Suppression Association
and we're getting the benefit of that with the two
hundred dollars tax going away.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Congratulations.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 7 (09:59):
And one thing I I'd like to add is, you know, look,
we've got these lawsuits. We feel confident that we're going
to win them, but it's important to note that it's
going to take some time, right, Like we're talking years,
not months. Ah, So you know, as we work through this.
You know, if anybody's listening with the expectation of oh man,
you know the tax is going away. Let me just
wait a couple more months and these things are going
(10:19):
to be out of the National Firems Act.
Speaker 6 (10:21):
You're going to be waiting for a very long time.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
It takes a while so clit cases to make their
way through the courts.
Speaker 7 (10:26):
Not only do we need to go through trial court
and then through district then we've got to appeal to
the Supreme Court to take a question of if or
when they would take our cases. And that's part of
the strategy why we've got multiple cases, three on the
same thing that will ultimately have filed, and that's that's
to increase the odds of us being able to successfully
petition up to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
That's really where the fight is.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Well, there you go again. Thanks so much for what
you do and thanks for sharing the information here.
Speaker 6 (10:51):
Yes, sir, thank you.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
All right, don't go far. We'll be right back with
more gun talk.
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Speaker 5 (12:47):
Needs to know.
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Speaker 8 (13:01):
Hey this Shiny Dirry from Derry's Guns.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Welcome back to gun Talk.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
All right, you can give you a call right now
at eight sixty six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun.
If there's something on your mind, you're watching something in
the news that sparked a thought, just something you want
to weigh in on, that's fine, we'll talk about it.
If it's a gun you want to know about, call me.
We'll figure it out. If there's one you want to
tell me about, you know, we call those range reports
where you go out and shoot something and have some
(13:28):
fun with it, or maybe you had an interesting experience
with the family or at a gun store. It really
doesn't matter. We're just honestly we're just swapping stories. I'm
Tom Gresham by the way, if you want to follow
you over on x which.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
Is where I hang out a lot.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I am at gun talk over there, and of course
you can follow gun talk everywhere. We have Instagram and
Facebook and YouTube and pretty much everything any kind of
social media.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
You'll find gun talk everywhere. All right, I'm watching the news.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
And just a few minutes we're going to be visiting
with a friend of mine from Australia and he's got
some men's sight and some intel on the horrible mass
murders that just took place there yesterday. Some thoughts there.
I was thinking about that, and you know, it is tempting,
(14:20):
honestly for me. I have to resist it as much
as I can. To get preachy about stuff or to
get changeful or somebody said, oh, you're always wagging your
finger at people. Yeah, I guess I am. At times.
I apologize for that kind of At the same time,
if you had a friend who would never put on
his or her seat belt and you thought that was dumb,
(14:43):
would you nag them?
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Yeah? You might.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
And if I have friends, all of you and a
lot of you don't take this stuff seriously in terms
of protecting yourself and your family. Occasionally, come on, I'm
going to nag that's just what it is, because I
think it's important. I've been through the deal of Oh,
I've been shooting all my life. I don't need this,
(15:09):
I know how to shoot, I carry a gun, all
the stuff, all those things I've heard. And then you
go take your first real self defensed training class and
you have that epiphany and it's exhilarating and embarrassing at
(15:30):
the same time. It's exhilarating because you're learning stuff. You're going, whoa, oh,
there's a lot here, and this is interesting and it's
actually fun to learn and all the rest of it.
At the same time, it's embarrassing because you're thinking, I
really was fooling myself. I really didn't know what I
(15:51):
was talking about. And now I realize that two more
knowledgeable people I sounded they're foolish. And that was a
feeling I had. And so now I turn around and
there was nothing worse than a reform center. Yeah, I
get it, and I want to say, look, let me
(16:13):
tell you, this is what you need to know. And
I keep trying to find ways that maybe have an impact.
And here's the deal. I'm not talking to all of
you out there.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
I'm not.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I'm talking to you one person, just the you, the
person between your ears who's listening to this right now.
To forget everybody else. It's just you, You and me.
Don't worry about anybody else. And the question is it
better each day to wake up thinking, oh, it's pretty
(16:46):
safe where I go. Nothing's ever going to happen. It's
highly unlikely that anything's going to happen. I don't need
to do that today. Or would it be a better
approach each day when you say, Okay, this is the
(17:07):
day it's going to happen. I am prepared for that.
I have taken the steps needed. I'm carrying what I need.
I've taken classes, I've spent the money, I've devoted the time.
I may never need it, but if I need it,
I'm going to need it more than anything in the world.
(17:29):
It is a choice. I can't make that choice for you.
I can't make the commitment for you. I can't go
sign up for a class. I can't buy the right
holster and belt and gun and lights and mag pouches
and magazines and tourniquets, all that stuff. I get it.
(17:51):
It's a commitment of time and money. And at the
same time, don't you think we actually tell the world
what we consider to be important by what we're willing
to invest time and money. Yet we can say yep,
safety is important to me, protecting my family is important
(18:13):
to me.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
And those are good words.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
But if you're not putting your time and money towards that,
is that all those things really important to you, don't
just different ways of looking at things that I'm always
trying to find another way that might have some impact
to say, Okay, this is something you need to do.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
Here's a question for you. For those of you who have.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Actually done this, here's my call out to you, say, Okay,
maybe you can help me out. When you took your
first real class and really went through this, be it
at Thunder Ranch or Gunside or Sick Academy or any
of the schools. Now, I'm talking self defense training. I'm
not talking about marketsmanship training. At rains Ready studios, we
(19:02):
teach marksmanship. We don't do the full class on self
defense stuff. We tell people, look, you need to go
to these other places for that. But if you've had
one of these classes. What was your reaction to the
first time you went through it, and what was your
takeaway as you're talking to your friends, I would love
to get your take on that. Let's go talk to
(19:25):
Steve online. Two out of Texas. Say Steve, you're on
gun Talk. Thanks for calling in. What's up?
Speaker 11 (19:31):
Yeah, Hi, Tom. I've had a problem last couple of years.
I've been trying to get a red dot site on
my Ruger SR forty C. Nobody will install it. There's
an adapter for it, but you need a site press
and really you should know what you're doing. So I'm
going to self enable. The bad news is I have
(19:55):
to buy another gun. The good news is I get
to buy another gun.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
I just I'm not hearing any bad news here.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 11 (20:03):
I'm so like I said, I'm self enabling on this one.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
There you go.
Speaker 11 (20:07):
And I walked into Academy Sports and I walked up
to him and I said, I'd like to take a
look at a double stack nineteen eleven and nine milimeter.
That's the hot gun everybody's buying now, so it sounds
like the right way to go. And he showed me
the Springfield Prodigy was the first Then he showed me
(20:27):
what I really liked it, but I asked, is there
anything else? And then he brought out a camp a
Kimber KDS nine C. When I picked that gun up,
oh my gosh, I've never picked up a gun that
said load me and shooting me. I mean, well, I
knew it instantly. It was a luminum frame, and that
(20:49):
gun has light. It's got a double spring unlike regular
nineteen eleven's to manage recoil it just and it's Kimber.
You know it's going to be good quality. I just
wondered if you've heard anything about it.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
Or yeah, talk, Look, here's the deal.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
You have passed the ninety percent test already when you
picked it up and talked to you and saying to
you and said, I am the one you need to
take me home.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Came on, big boy, let's go to your place.
Speaker 12 (21:15):
You know.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
It's kind of one of those meals.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah, so, I mean, you're already ninety percent there and
it's gonna shoot. Well, it's not gonna be a problem.
So the only real question is why would you hesitate?
And look, let's go back to the original thought. If
you're going to put a red out site on some
of these older guns, it's it's difficult to put them on.
Buy one of the modern guns, it's already set up.
It's easy to put a red dot on it, an
(21:38):
optic on it. Look, the only thing left for you
to do is go put down the money and buy
this gun, put the optic on it, and go out
and shoot it, and then your obligations to call us
back with full range report.
Speaker 11 (21:49):
What do you think, Oh, you'll get one yep?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Okay, that works for me. Look, I think that's the
way to go. You're not going to make a mistake here.
And you've done the good part, which is put it
in your hands, and when you pick it up.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
You go, oh, oh, I love the way that feels.
There's not a lot left in the deal.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
I mean, as long as you're buying a quality gun,
if it speaks to you, it feels good to you,
buy it, go out and shoot it. Worst case you
don't like it. After you shoot it, you sell it,
you go buy another gun. Okay, big deal. When we
come back, I want to talk about this mass shooting
that just happened in Australia and what.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
You personally can take away from that. This is important.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
All right, we're back with you here, Tom grashing me with
his gun talk. There's something going on and news broke
when we got up this morning. We hear about terrible
shooting going on or just finished in Australia. And there
are so many takeaways from this and we're very fortunate.
I was able to grab my friend. He's a pilot buddy,
(22:56):
a shooting buddy, a gun sight graduate. David Brown joins.
Just right now, David, you shot me a note in
the middle of the night when I was sleeping, and
you're about half of a world away right now.
Speaker 13 (23:07):
They were about half a day in front. Tom.
Speaker 12 (23:10):
It's almost Monday morning. Yes, this story broke this evening
out of Sydney. And for your listeners, many of you
would know Bondai Beach. It's very famous. It's like a
Wikiki or a Malibu or what have you. It's a
major tourist area. But it has been an area subject
to let's call it racial slash, terrorists, hype activities in
(23:34):
the past.
Speaker 13 (23:35):
So there is a bit of history in that part
of the world. But the most.
Speaker 12 (23:40):
Significant thing that came out of it very early on
was this was a targeted terrorist attack. There was a
Jewish community Haneker events, lots of kids involved in. Someone
has gotten together with a few friends and obviously playing
this and you just don't know when evil's going to
rock up on your all step are on your celebratory
(24:02):
event in basically a major popular area.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
As we're talking right now, I guess the news is
twelve dead.
Speaker 12 (24:13):
That's possibly going to climb. There's at least thirty in hospital.
Speaker 13 (24:17):
So how many.
Speaker 12 (24:18):
Whether it's twelve, it's still terrible. I've identified three from footage.
The official news so far only identifies too. But it
is absolutely clear there is a third one. One's dead,
ones in hospital may not survive. The police obviously did
a good job with those two. A third one would
(24:39):
appear to have escaped.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
And I'm looking at video here, I guess, and you
tell me there's actually more than one. One citizen tried
to stop one of the guys and got killed. But
I'm looking at video of another citizen who came up
behind one of the shooters, grabbed him, spun him around,
disarmed him, and then clearly didn't know what to do
with the gun once he had the gun taken away.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
That's the long gun.
Speaker 12 (25:03):
Yeah, it struck me watching it because I have a
different view to maybe the most Australians, probably more aligned
with your listeners, and that was he's effectively disarmed this
guy whilst hiding behind a large tree from the other shooters.
He's not been able to run the gun in self defense.
(25:24):
In the end, it probably didn't matter, however, you don't know.
He's certainly saved lives. Maybe he could have saved a
few more, but a heroic action on his behalf. But
it strikes me that, you know, maybe the years of
less gun culture in this country has led to more
and more people in society not being able to run
(25:47):
a firearm when they absolutely need to. And you've talked
about this many times. Your gun might not be the
gun you have on the day that you need to
operate someone else's you pick up in the battlefield. So
that was one thing that struck me. But I will
say it was good to see that people did fight back.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
There are of course a lot of people here who think, oh, yeah,
well in Australia there are no guns.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
Well that's not true. I mean you can own guns
in Australia, correct.
Speaker 12 (26:17):
Correct, And you know they'd be out of a population
of twenty five twenty six million, they'd be well north
of a million, probably one million and a quarter million
and a half gun owners.
Speaker 13 (26:28):
So yes, we have them, but we don't have.
Speaker 12 (26:32):
A Second Amendment kind of protection for any gun rights.
But we also don't have concealed carry or anything like that.
So one of the other things that I've noticed just
watching the commentary is this event lasted nine minutes. And
I've heard you talk about it on the program many
a time. Seconds seconds, seconds is dead people or injured
(26:55):
people nine minutes?
Speaker 13 (26:57):
Now when seconds count?
Speaker 12 (26:59):
In this case, the police were really really close because
Bondi Police station is just down the road, four minutes
until the first portion of interaction occurred, and it still
took five minutes to, as you call it, deactivate the situation.
So having someone on the spot diligently trained and to
(27:22):
your point, training, training, training, may have saved many, many lives.
So I look at this from an external point of view. Yeah,
sure the cops got there in record time, but it
could have been better.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Well, I mean, I'm thinking about you and your wife
were both guns like graduates. Had you been there and
had you been able to have your guns, it's not
that you prevent it from happening, but you can shortened
the amount of time. And when you shorten the amount
of time, you reduced the number of people who get
murdered absolutely.
Speaker 12 (27:53):
In fact, I was listening to a young fellow who
pulled up and rendered first aid to a police officer,
and the first thing that crossed my mind was had
that been Lisa or I, one of us would have
done the first aid. One would have said, give me
a glock or whatever it is they carry. I think
their blocks in Sydney, and I'll go engage, provide cover
while we give you first aid. I don't think even
(28:16):
the average American might think they're good for it. But
unless you've gone and done force on force training, get
into those shootouse situations like you and I have been in,
and Lisa has been in at gun site where they're
shooting at you, your body won't go where your mind's
not been before. And I sort of think, well, there
(28:36):
was an opportunity, maybe missed.
Speaker 13 (28:39):
So takeaways, be prepared, be trained.
Speaker 12 (28:44):
The other thing is how many people were carrying a
torniquit or any first aid, Because we saw images of
people with shrapnel wounds to their heads and what have
you the ambulances were there, but they weren't there at
second zero.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
A lot of takeaways, and you know, one of them is,
as we've talked about, no place is safe. People say, well,
that's a safe place. There are a lot of people,
it's a public area. Well, this is a public area
visited by people really from all over the world and
it's a popular destination. And then you have it sounds
like three people who decided we're going to go murder
people there because we don't like them for whatever reason.
(29:23):
Then the reason doesn't really matter in terms of practical aspect.
It's just they wanted to kill people, and there's no
one there who had the ability to stop it effectively.
I mean, yeah, I mean I'm proud that people were
willing to jump on a guy with a gun and
because that's well, that's all they had. They had no
(29:44):
choice either you do it with your bare hands, bare
hands against the guy with a gun, or you just simply,
you know, run and hide or die.
Speaker 12 (29:53):
Yeah, and if you consider this, there would have been
a thousand people that they're gathering, so it was a
target rich environment, no ability to shoot back, and yeah,
hand to hand combat was what some successfully and some
unsuccessfully tried.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
You have been started to say you were involved in
the Australian Second Amendment movement, but you don't have a
second amendment, so we have to say you're very much
involved in gun rights movement in Australia. And do you
know the people, you know, the politicians, you know, what
do you expect to be the reaction to this?
Speaker 12 (30:28):
That's that's the question, because the way things happen here
tends to be different to what your listeners would be
used to. Often down the track there'll be inquiries and
what have you, and then there'll be a call for
more gun control. The response, hopefully is this is an
act of terrorism and there's one point something million gun
(30:50):
owners in Australia with millions and millions of firearms, did
not commit venus crimes today. Therefore they leave us alone
focus on the terrorism.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Yeah, we know that's not lad, but.
Speaker 12 (31:04):
You can be sure. You can be sure there's going
to be something. So we as people in the firearm
community need to just be patient, sit back, analyze the facts,
and then be prepared to rationally discuss, negotiate.
Speaker 13 (31:22):
And push back on any unrealistic.
Speaker 12 (31:26):
Attempts of introducing other gun control that, as you know,
fails miserably everywhere it did.
Speaker 13 (31:35):
It did here.
Speaker 12 (31:36):
Yeah, actually, yeah, we've got all the gun laws didn't work.
In fact, I thought terrorism was illegal too.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Now there's all of that all right, Let's move to
more pleasant topic. Let's talk about your latest firearm acquisition.
Speaker 13 (31:52):
Ah, the GT thirty that made it down Under.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
You were able to, dare I say, smuggle Australia.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
You didn't really, but the.
Speaker 12 (32:04):
FEDS will be knocking on our doors, so you're aware.
But maybe not everyone. Obviously a lot of people in Australia.
There's a big gun culture here. Shipping of arms around
the world is a difficult process. Fortunately, one of the
dealers here in Australia that is a big supporter of
our advocacy work Cleavers Firearms. They have a shareholder and
(32:29):
a business in Michigan, so Doury's.
Speaker 13 (32:32):
I spoke to Johnny Durry on the.
Speaker 12 (32:33):
Phone and as you know, hell of a great guy.
I met him once before years ago. He arranged for
them to be shipped to the FFL and Michigan. They
do all the export stuff import into Australia.
Speaker 13 (32:45):
It's all done with all the rules.
Speaker 12 (32:48):
Followed in the protocols and they eventually turn up at
Cleaver's here in Australia and POLICEA and I and so
we bought one, one for my wife, one for my
daughter and one for my son and that was their
sort of birthday Christmas presents. They've been mounted with some
loophole three to nine befoty CDs scopes and this weekend
(33:11):
we'll go and run a bunch of different loads through
them and see what accuracy we get.
Speaker 13 (33:16):
And I'm hoping for good things.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
I think you will be very pleased. And you're telling
me you really like it. It is a rifle that
you look at and you think, well that's short and
clubby and it's not going to handle very well, and
it surprises you when you pick it up.
Speaker 13 (33:30):
It does.
Speaker 12 (33:31):
And let me sell guns here on behalf of Lipsy's
so as you know that was a limited edition and
several hundred were made, but for anyone listening that.
Speaker 13 (33:41):
Was foolish enough not to order one.
Speaker 12 (33:44):
When you pick these things up, they swing like a
really nice shotgun. I was out of all the rifles
Teekers and other rugas. You pick this up and shoulder
it and it just feels nice. It's nicely weighted, great
hunting rifle. I would suggest the Lipsey's exclusive and you
(34:06):
could probably expand on that.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
Yeah, let me explain, because even though.
Speaker 12 (34:09):
It's readily available to everyone else basically minus the gun talker.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Yeah, this after we helped design this rifle and we
did a short run of GT thirties for gun Talk,
Lipsy's said, well, we're just going to keep doing this
because this is a really cool rifle. So Lipsy's being
the national firearms distributor, your local gun store can order
this rifle from Lipsy's and you can have it in
in like two days, and so it's still available even
(34:36):
though it's not available through gun Talk.
Speaker 12 (34:38):
Interestingly enough, cleavers down here who normally procure all their
RUGA products through Nia, the major importer, they are bringing
a bunch of the same guns and they must have
loved them enough that they ordered from Lipsey's. You know,
special batches that wouldn't otherwise find their way to Australia.
(35:01):
So yeah, that gun's caught the attention of a lot
of people.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Let's do a shout out here for your buddy does reviews.
Speaker 12 (35:11):
I can tell you he's a big and probably a
lot of your listeners will have seen his video material
Assie reviews. He is a staunch let's call it the
down under version of Second Amendment work that people like
Shooters Union actively pursue.
Speaker 13 (35:27):
But I've also managed to pick up a couple of
his Lithgo.
Speaker 12 (35:29):
Rifles recently stuck a couple of scopes on them today,
so they'll be coming to the farm with me with
the rugas and we'll be doing a bit of load development.
But yeah, he is an absolute champion of gun rights defense.
But if you like really good firearm reviews, go to
his YouTube channel and support that page. Very informative, very professional,
(35:55):
no yahooing. I think Tom, you would probably rate that
as being a professional level page.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
Very Austinie Reviews, Ozzie correct. Yeah, okay, very good.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
All right, we'll do that. David Brown, thank you for
bringing this to my attention. I'm sorry for what's going
on down there, and you know the reaction will be
predictable with the calls for even more effectless gun control.
That won't work because it never does. But it is
on an individual level, and that's I think what we
want to you and I want to talk about. On
an individual level, it's a reminder to people to be aware,
(36:28):
be alert, have a plan, talk to your family if
something like this happens, what are you going to do?
And particularly if you're in a place where you can't
have your own gun, be aware that, you know, go
get some training in other kinds of guns. If you
don't know how to run an ak, that's probably what
you've got to find on the ground.
Speaker 13 (36:47):
Be aware of all the different sorts.
Speaker 12 (36:49):
You know, you pick up a Burretta ninety two compared
to a block, they're subtly different.
Speaker 13 (36:55):
Pick up an IR fifteen versus an ak.
Speaker 12 (36:58):
You know, various different right shotguns, semi auto shotguns, leave
erection shotguns, be away because you just never know what
you might need to pick up. It might be that
you've got to come to the defense of a police officer.
What do they carry around?
Speaker 4 (37:14):
And can you if you pick up a gun that
has jammed, can you unjam it and get it back
into the fight again. David Brown, thank you so much
for this. I appreciate that, sir, Very.
Speaker 13 (37:23):
Christmas, you too from down Under.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
I was able to grab that interview with David.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
It was midnight there when I was talking to him,
at like six or seven o'clock in the morning here.
Speaker 5 (37:36):
I appreciate him taking time. David is really.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
One of the top activists, if you will, for gun
rights in Australia. Serious shooter gun guy. One of the
things we talked about that we didn't put on the
air it was the idea of learning to shoot a
lot of different guns and a really fun way to
do that. Just invite several of your friends to go
(38:03):
out to the range at the same time. And I'm
probably not at them in the door shooting range, which
is regular. You need to go out somewhere you can
set up a table and put a dozen or three
dozen guns out there and take turns shooting everybody else's guns.
You know, can you run that? How do you operate that?
How does this work? Show me how this thing works? Pistols, revolvers, semiautos,
(38:27):
bolt actions, lever actions, whatever, So you have some level
of familiarity that is current, because if you shot it
thirty years ago, you may not remember all those details
on this switch and what does that do? And how
do I get the safety off? Just besides that, it's
fun to go do that, and after why you realize
I can pick up anything and run it. If it's
(38:48):
a semi auto pistol and it's jammed tap rack, I
can forget about ninety percent of the malfunctions fixed just
with that. If you don't know what I'm talking about,
when I see tap rack, here it comes again. Training,
Go take a class, tap rack figure it all out.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
Eight sixty six. Talk done. What is your take on this?
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Where are you in terms of making a commitment to
protecting yourself and your family? I'm Tom Gresham. This is
gun talk. Give me a shout. I continue to read
stories news stories about the Bondy Beach terror attack in Australia.
(39:34):
Terrorists they just showed up to kill people. Lots of people, men, women, children,
didn't matter. They were killing them all, shooting them all, shooting, reloading,
stuffing in mags, just hosing them down. Very much like
the October seventh massacre in Israel where the terrorists, the
(39:58):
most terrorists came in and just murdered people, men, women
and children.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
Same deal, probably same people, the same line of thinking.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Anyway, if you get a chance, go find the video
it's online everywhere now of the guy who ended up
disarming one of the murderers comes up behind him, grabs
him spins him around, takes the gun from him. And
while that's good it worked out for him, it could
have gone a different way because he didn't shoot the
guy after he took the gun away from him, and
(40:28):
the murderer could easily have pulled out a gun, a
second gun, and shot this good Samaritan. If it happened here,
let's take Australia out of it. If it happened here,
where you have the chance in most states of carrying
a gun, and if you were precient enough and smart
(40:50):
enough to be carrying your gun, and all you see
is this guy's back, is he's shooting people. Have you
made the mental to a commitment already to shoot him
in the back. God? I hope so, I hope you're
not suffering from the silly movie idea of you don't
shoot people in the back.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
Yeah you do.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
If that's the side you got, you shoot the side
you got, because the idea is to make them quit
shooting other people. They're killing other people, They're killing kids
and murdering children. Shooting in the back, shooting in the side,
shooting me in the head, shooting the leg, shooting me
in the ankle, shooting the foot, wherever you got to do.
If you're behind a car, lay on your side on
(41:33):
the ground, you can shoot under a car and shoot
somebody in the ankle. Trust me, you got their attention.
Oh wow, I never thought of that. That's what we
do in training. We get down on the ground, We
get behind the wheel of a car, laid down and
shoot underneath the car and shoot the targets on the
(41:53):
other side. Not only is it good training, and know
what else it is, it's fun. I mean that's a
fun thing to do. Go wow, I didn't know I
could do that.
Speaker 5 (42:05):
Huh.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
And it really forces you to focus. Forget everything else,
get on the sites, impress the trigger. There's nothing else. Yeah,
the gun sideways, it's ninety degrees to the ground. Yeah,
you're laying on the ground. Yeah, the gun is one
inch or two inches off the ground. And if you're
(42:27):
doing it with an ar, which we do, you gotta
be careful about the ejection because if you've got the
right side of the gun down toward the ground, the
empties can go out and hit the grounds. You gotta
find a way to make sure you don't induce a jam.
Another of those things where you get the intop thing.
I never thought of that. Yeah, that's why we go
(42:49):
to these places. But it is fun. I gotta tell you.
This kind of training is tons of fun. So just
you might add a class to your Christmas list, whether
you're giving it to somebody else or give it to
yourself or doing it. Hey, I want to do that,
and I'm going to take you with me, and we're
gonna go have fun and do this kind of class somewhere.
(43:12):
I signed up for another gun site class. Gonna do
that at least right now. Schedule for me? Do I
need another two fifty pistol class at gun Site? I
could say I've had two or three of them and
I don't need that, but I know better, Yes, of
course I need that.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
It's called recurrent training.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
I just signed up for a recurrent training class three
days of flying airplanes in the back country of Idaho.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
I've been flying for forty two years. Do I need that?
Speaker 4 (43:36):
Yes, of course I need that, because you get rusty
and you get people to show you things, and if
I learned one thing out of the class, then the
class was worthwhile.
Speaker 5 (43:45):
I am a big believer in recurrent training.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
When we come back, we have some good things happening
in the courts when it relates to the Second Amendment,
we'll have it updates
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