September 21, 2025 • 43 mins
In This Hour:
-- Is your ammo good, or just cheap?
-- When a rifle gives hints, listen to them. Get it fixed right away.
-- Check optic brightness in daylight if you bet your life on it.
Gun Talk 09.21.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Is your ammo good, or just cheap?
-- When a rifle gives hints, listen to them. Get it fixed right away.
-- Check optic brightness in daylight if you bet your life on it.
Gun Talk 09.21.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Ruger LC carbine is the ultimate range companion, chambered
in five seven by twenty eight. He's fun to shoot
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
Back with you here if you want to join us.
Eight six six Talk Gun or Tom Talkgun. That's our number.
So there are people I get to work with that
I get to know that are then often get to
be friends with. And so of those folks are just
(00:36):
good people. And our next guest is one of those.
Jeff Hoffman from Blackhall's Ammunition joins us right now.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Hey Jeff, glad you could be here.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Hey Tom, good to be with you again.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So I call you an hour or so ago, and
I said, well, we're going to do the show. I
just want to touch base with you. Before you know it,
you and I are off to the races and we're
talking for fifteen minutes about guns and AMMO and everything else.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I said, wait, wait, wait, we need to save.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
This to get on the air. Man. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Well, when you're enthusiastic about something that, it's hard to
hold a bap.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
All right.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
For those who don't know Black Hill's ammunition. You're in
South Dakota. You've been making ammo for how many years now,
God's got to be.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Thirty years, about forty three, Holy.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Cow, forty three years a lot. And you may really fine,
Amaal Harts tell people if your rifle, your pistol won't
shoot with black Kill's ammal, you got a problem with
your gun. But the reality is, and I'd like for
you to talk about this for just a little bit,
probably the majority of what you do actually doesn't go
(01:39):
on the commercial market. It actually goes to the military
and sometimes to little small units that go special places.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Is that fair?
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Yeah, we've evolved that. We started off as a loader
of re manufactured what some people call reloaded ammunitions. We
started off with that, and we grew and the commercial
market grew, and then at one point we had an
opportunity to pursue a military bid. Kind of an interesting story,
(02:09):
and we surprised ourselves and we won that bid for
marksmanship unit, and then within three years we had all
of the marksmanship unit business for five, five, six, and
then after that the military kept coming to us for
other stuff. And that was ninety six when we won
our first military bid. And we've just continued to grow
(02:30):
it since then.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I feel like I ought to share with everybody your background.
You come from a career in law enforcement, and so
you made a career of taking care of people, and
now you make AMMO for people who keep us safe
and take care of us and go places and do
interesting things in the process. You have, I guess, maybe
(02:56):
learned how to make really good am O, partly because
the government.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Wires it, the government requires it, and we always had
a passion for doing it well. And because of my
law enforcement background, I had thirty eight years as a
Kappa one sort or another, and twenty eight years of
it as a sniper on a special response team. So
(03:22):
we had something in common with people who needed precision ammal.
We could speak their language and understand what they needed,
and that that was a significant motivator and advantage for us.
And it's worked out really well. We have kind of
a niche and precision Ammal.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
You told me a story before. I'd love it if
you would tell the story again about I don't know
who it was and what unit they're with, and maybe
you can't tell us, but they came in and told
you basically what you were doing and maybe more than
you realized you were doing for people out there.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Yeah, about oh, thirteen years after we started doing contracts
and about ten years after we started doing something beyond
marksmanship United Amo that is operational.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
You.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Samio, our liaison with the Navy, called up and he said, Jeff,
you have to realize what Black Hills is doing here.
You're saving lives. The difference between what you guys are
providing and what these guys would have had to use
has resulted and saved the lives. And we were simply
(04:36):
stunned by that. You know, it was something we hadn't
thought of, hadn't anticipated. But when that sinks in to realize,
you know that we've had lots of accolades, people calling
up and saying, hey, it did real well. I shot
this trophy or in competition, I won this trophy, and
(04:56):
there's been some world records set. But to realize that
just because we did our job right, that people are
alive today because they had better tools and they survived
a gunfight when maybe they wouldn't have had the capability
of range and precision and performance with whatever they would
(05:20):
have had to carry otherwise. To realize that people are
alive because of that. It was just stunning to us.
I just had no words. It was amazing, and we
shared that with everybody in the plants, and everybody realizes
that what we do is save lives. Our motto is
(05:40):
we built sharper swords for our warriors.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
You know, and that also applies what you learn in
doing that, and you've ended up doing some really special
stuff for some really special people. But we the people
out here, we get the benefit of that because you
make really really good animal for the rest of us,
whether it's for hunting competition or up to fend.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Yeah. It all started with five five six ammunition for competition,
and then after about three years the military came to
us and said we're starting a new system. At that time,
it was called the spr It was basically, has explained
to us, accurized sixteen a one that they built out
(06:27):
of old stock, the turning stock with a accurized system,
a good accurate barrel, suppressed scope, sided and they needed
to ammo for that, and they asked if we wanted
to participate. It wasn't a source of sod or a
request for quotation, it was just do you want to play?
(06:48):
And we said absolutely, and that became the Mark of
sixty two and that the seventy seven grain AMMO. It's
the only precision round in the military inventory, and it's
that's become for us kind of like Dirty Harry's Model
twenty nine. It kind of put us on the map
for precision AMMAL. And we also make a commercial version
(07:11):
of it, the Mark two sixty two Mod one dash
c C standing for commercials, so we can offer that
same performance to the to the commercial market.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Didn't you just get a new contract with that AMO.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yeah, we've actually received two of them recently, so that's
that's kind of good. For the past year and a half,
it's been kind of a dry spell with the military.
The had to wait for the drump budgets to take
effect in order to get some military funding. I think
is what happened that. I don't think Biden was real
(07:47):
big on funding military small arms ammial no.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Kidden, no kidding. So what do you what do you learn?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I mean when you're making super precision AMMO for the military,
So how does that? How do we been If I'm
more to get six to five creed more and I
want to go hut deer with that, how am I
benefiting from what you have learned in the military and
making that super duper amo.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
How does that work? It's way in a miamo.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
The military is different from commercial and even different from
law enforcement. And the difference is the military has specifications
that and not to bad mouth and how anybody else
does stuff. But the fact is the military has certain requirements,
(08:34):
certain levels that you have to meet, and commercial ammunition
typically the level levels are a bit nebulous or non existent.
A lot of times it's whatever's cheapest is what sells.
Because most people don't realize the difference. They think it's
like gasoline and you put in the car and everything
(08:55):
works good. The military is different than that. They buy
oftentimes on what's called value. They don't look for the cheapest,
they look for the best. And if you can, if
you can provide something better than what everybody else does,
that means that you're likely to win bids with it.
And that's what helps us survive because we can't be
(09:16):
the cheapest. We've nearly went out of business back in
our early years trying to be the cheapest store, to
say it nicely, the most economical. And the problem is
there's always there's always somebody cheaper. You know, either they
are on the way out of business and they don't
know it, or they've got some big marketing advantages that
you don't have. And for us, we have to sell
(09:37):
on the basis of performance, and so the military sets
high standards. They'll sometimes set standards so high that they're impossible,
just to see how close private industry can come. That's
not we want our first bid. Yeah, the first bid
was absolutely impossible to win. But we pointed out our
shortcomings and submitted it, and they accepted it anyway, saying, well,
(10:00):
you did better than everybody else.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
We didn't know.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
We weren't able to get it done by ourselves anyway.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Right, and let me let me.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
There's we've only got a couple of minutes staft. But
I want to say something here because you talking about
this cheap ammo and you can't say this because you
won't say this because you would never bad mouth anybody.
I know you too well. But just for people to
be aware, we all look at we shop for this
really cheap ammo. It's nine milimeters ammo for twenty two
cents around or whatever, and there's a lot of it
(10:28):
out there, and there but look, the reality is people
and I buy a lot of that go through. A
lot of it goes bang, but a lot of that
is really poor, ammo. These days, they're cranking it out fast.
If you take it to the range and I actually
try to shoot it for accuracy, you're gonna find that
some of this stuff, it's gonna be hard pressed to
do five to seven inch groups at twenty five yards
(10:49):
versus Black Hill's ambo really good, Ammo. It's more expensive.
It's just no getting around it. You're gonna be shooting
groups that are half that size or maybe a third
that size. And you know, I understand people are trying
to get the most for their dollars, Jeff, but at
the same time they do need to know what it
is they're getting.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
I think, yeah, that's true, and I think that there's
a couple of reasons for the existence of the acceptance
of that. One of them is the handguns take more
skill and practice to shoot, and there's a lot of
(11:26):
people that honestly haven't. It's the difference isn't within their
capability to discern shooting close range. But part of I guess,
part of our advantages for quite a number of years
I was a competitive pistol shooter, so we wouldn't accept
(11:51):
just something that would go bang and be kind of
generally good enough, would concentrate on making per precision.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
You know, you're you're just too nice, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
What you're really saying is that, look, there are people
out there who just are not good enough shots to
understand that they're shooting allows the ammo because they can't
tell the difference, you.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Know, And the fact is handguns are hard to shoot.
It makes a lot of training to get to the
point where you can tell the difference between ammo that's
just kind of okay and ammunition that's that's superior. But yeah,
you're you're right, some of it out there simply really
isn't up up to the task. And the other thing
(12:36):
is the economy of it. Right now, you're like you said,
you can get ammunition for two hundred, two hundred and
fifty dollars a thousand, because the market's in a little
bit of a slump, and when that happens, people are
selling stuff just to kind of turn money, and it
might be a good time to stock up on ammunition
right now. Is because of the ammo market being in
(12:57):
a bit of a slump.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
It is.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Let me drive people to your websites, black Dash, Hills
dot Com, Rifle, AMO Handgun, AMMO, Defensive, AMMO Competition, AMMO
Hunting AMMO.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
And you got the.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Marks two six to mod one dash see millpack very worthwhile. Jeff,
you guys make great AMMO, but you're more than that.
You are great people. I love your family, I love
the company, I love the people, Therefohen I get to
go through your place.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You are you are a great American, my friend.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Well, thank you. We feel like we're just doing our job,
but we're real proud to do it.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
There it is Blacktail's AMO. Thank you, Jeff. We'll talk later,
all right, Everybody, give me a holler. We have got
the door open and we are open. Line.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Put on your mind, give me a call at Tom Talk.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
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Speaker 8 (14:55):
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(15:16):
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Speaker 9 (15:24):
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Speaker 5 (15:59):
This is David Kodria from the Warren Guns Notes from
the Resistance. I want to congratulate Tom Gresham for thirty
consistent and information packed years of gun talk. Tom yours
is an influential, widely respected voice, and the information and
insights you've regularly given us over the decades have helped
me and all of us be better prepared and equipped
(16:19):
in our efforts at Defendant and promote the right of
the people to keep bare arms. So thank you, and
here's to the best being yet to come. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
David. Appreciate that I got an issue going on with
a rifle, and I've talked about the fact that I
incredibly drew a moose tag for Ido hard to get
four percent chance of drawing it. Actually, my buddy Mike
and I both drew, which was unbelievable. He's up there
right now hunting moose, kind of doing our early scouting,
(16:51):
but also he's hunting in North Idaho, sending me pictures
and giving me reports. And I'll probably maybe bead up
in the next week. I'm not sure. But I got a problem.
I got all rigged up with this three thirty eight
out six rifle that I got, been working up loads
for it, and about three weeks ago, right before it
(17:12):
was going to Ireland, I had two failures to fire
light primer strikes, and then I had a couple of
problems with extraction and I actually had to get a
cleaning rod and knock cases out of the chamber. See,
(17:35):
I'm putting these two things together and going, Okay, I'm
not liking what's going on here. What's happening. Well, the
rifle has now been set off. It's going to reform school.
I said, it's the Outcast Arms. These are the folks
that used to work for Melvin Forbes making ultralight arms, rifles,
same shop, same people. And my theory is this a
(17:59):
bound sit off a glen there at Outcast And he said, yeah,
that sounds about right. After the rifle was made, somebody
rechambered it from three thirty eight out six to three
thirty eight out six actually improved. So they ran a
(18:20):
new chamber reamer into it, and Glenn said, he says, man,
I don't like to do that. You know, if I'm
going to do an actually improved chamber, I like to
start with original. I don't like to remount one that's
already there. Let's talk for a second about headspacing. Headspacing
is basically the method to think about a rifle cartridge
that does not have a belt, not a belt of cartridge.
(18:42):
When it goes into the chamber, the thing that keeps
it from moving forward is the shoulder of the cartridge.
HiT's the shoulder of the chamber. If those two dimensions
are not correct, then your headspace is off. I think
what has happened here is that this has excessive headspace.
(19:02):
The cartries is going slightly, ever so slightly too far
into the chamber. When it does that, you don't get
real good primer strikes because the firing pin can't go
quite far enough, or the or the cartes itself moves
into the chamber ever so slightly, it absorbs a little
bit of the energy from the firing pin, so I
(19:24):
was getting primer hits. I could see the indentations in
the primer, but it wouldn't go off. If I tried
it again, it would go off, and then after it
go off, the extractor wouldn't pull the case out. So
what do you do with that? Well, I think I
haven't heard back from Glenn. He was gonna look at it.
I think what we're probably gonna end up having to
do to take the barrel off, cut a little bit
(19:49):
off of the back of the barrel the part that
screws into the gun the rifle, and then rechamber it,
start over and run a fresh chamber reamer in there
so we'd get a nice clean, fresh chamber cut into it.
The reason you have to back the are cut off
a little bit of the back of the barrel so
(20:10):
you have enough metal to cut into with this chamber raamer.
Now you do that, of course you have moved the
barrel in the stock slightly further back, so now the
bedding is not exactly right, so they're gonna have to
rebd the barrel into the stock. It gets complicated, doesn't
(20:33):
It's like, huh, one thing after another after another, because
whoever did the rechambering of it, I don't know who
that was somewhere along the way, some gunsmith, it appears
at this point, did a sloppy job of rechambering. And
the other thing is when I bought this rifle, I
did not know it was exactly improved. It's mark three
(20:55):
thirty eight six. They never even changed the stamping on
the barrel to mark that. It is one of the
things that can happen when you're buying a used gun,
and I just chalk it up to, Okay, stuff happens.
It's just what it is, and it hardly ever is
a problem buying a used rifle or handgun. But every
once in a while you're going to run into something
(21:16):
and you say, okay, that's just the cost of buying
use guns. That's what you're going to get Gaisley. So
all that to say is it doesn't look like that
rifle is gonna be ready in time for moose hunting.
Maybe in time for ail hunting, and two or three
weeks we'll see if it gets back in time for that.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
So what am I going to do?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Well, I have a two eighty four Winchester, and I'm
going to take that out for moose, and people are
gonna say, is that big enough for moose? Well, it's
basically one hundred and forty grand bullet going twenty nine
fifty feet per second. That would be a two seventy.
I would hunt a moose with a two seventy. So
this shoe worked just fine. Well, i'll let you know. Well,
(21:54):
we'll see what happens. But yes, that same ordeal. If
you use a good bullet and you hit them the
right place, you're probably going to get them and from
their forts for getting shot.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Maybe twenty yards fifty yards. We'll see.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I'll give you a moose support a couple of weeks.
All right, this is your time. We are open lines.
If you want to give me a call. It doesn't
really matter if you want to talk about your guns,
or can you want to have or think about buying,
(22:31):
or maybe you've never actually owned a gun and you
think about buying your first one. We'll give me a call.
We'll worked our way through it. There really, seriously are
no dumb questions. We can just work our way through it.
We'll figure it all out. Number here is eight six
six talk gun Also it's tom talk gun. Now I'll
get you in. James called us out of Arizona. James,
(22:53):
I got your your email and the cool video you
sent with your son shooting that. Lever actually got to
tell us about it.
Speaker 10 (23:02):
Yeah, that that's the cool one. And a big shout
out to Gary and Colleen Reader in flag Staff. They
that was my great great grandfather's He was given that
as a reward for catching a bank robber. He was
a marshall back in the eighteen hundreds and that gun
was made in eighteen ninety five. Well, Gary and his
crew went through it recently made it worthy to shoot,
(23:26):
and my son and I finally got to shoot it
two days ago.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
So in thirty thirty eight, fifty five, thirty.
Speaker 10 (23:35):
Eight to fifty five. Yes, I found some black Hills
makes a cowboy action mode for it to kind of
a you know soft of course that out of type load. Yeah,
that's Colleen said, Yeah, you need to shoot some soft
loads through that because if it breaks it might not
be fixable next time.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, that's an old gun. Its like one hundred and
thirty year old gun.
Speaker 10 (23:59):
Hundred and thirty years old, Yes, and it's Oh, it
was fun. It was so much fun.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Well, yeah, that.
Speaker 10 (24:05):
Was one of them, and a big shout out to
Gary's Crew.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Good deal. And then you got a revolver you want
to tell me about.
Speaker 10 (24:12):
Well, my son fiance wanted a gun and she didn't
want to semi out and wanted a revolver. She'd shot
several of mine. We found her a Rossy RP sixty three.
It's a three inch barrel, three fifty seven mag same
size as the K frame. Smith and Norston, the K
frame speedloaders all work on it and everything, and it's
(24:35):
it's not okay, it's not a performance center. It's not
anything like a Smith's performance center. But it was like
three hundred and sixty dollars brand new, so yeah it
was I thought it was a steal. I thought it
was a heck of a bargain. So yeah, somebody wants
a good revolver, I would highly recommend that, as well
(24:55):
as I'm going to recommend to my neighbor abscribing to
that LifeLock membership you just advertised.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
All right, so tell me about their rawsty.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
How does it shoot?
Speaker 10 (25:07):
It shoots great. It's a three inch, it's got fixed sights.
They make a four and a six inch with adjustable, but.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
She wanted to.
Speaker 10 (25:14):
She liked the three inch. She shots them of my
three entries before, and boy, it shoots point of aim.
It's just the site to regulate it just spot on,
just a nice smooth It's it's a little heavy on
a double action poll, but you know that's probably going
to work in and smooth out some right, And it's
(25:35):
you know, got a round butt on it. It's very
consumable and she loves it. So that's I couldn't be
happier for her.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You know. And you can also get from that Black
Hill's Cowboy Action Hammo in thirty eight special and it's
you know, low recoil.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
That'd be fun to shoot in there.
Speaker 10 (25:53):
Well yeah, but she's not a verse to recoil. She's
she's shot her shareff three fifty seven bags through us
and full house nags and that doesn't seem to bother.
So good for her, you know, she's yeah, I think
she normally carries thirty eight plus p's in it, but
she is. She she won't back down from the magnums.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Well a good deal, that is excellent, So that's a
good range before we appreciate.
Speaker 10 (26:15):
That, you bet you have a good day and take care.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Thanks James appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Hey. By the way, James said that the email to
me with the video that was cool. And Tom at
gun talk dot com is how you get via in
terms of email. Also over on x you can follow
me there. I am at gun Talk and of course
we've got our videos up on YouTube and everywhere else.
Just look for gun talk or gun talk media everywhere.
Let's while we're here, let's grab Bill online for out
(26:41):
of Illinois. Hello, Bill, you made it onto gun Talk.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Tom?
Speaker 11 (26:45):
I just wanted to let you and your listeners know
something happened to me. I had a have a facilic
carry every day, and I put a red dount on
it and sit it in at the range and and
you know, practice with it and it's perfect and I
lock it down. And so my friend invited me to
the farm where he lives and to shoot outside. And
(27:07):
I go out there and bring out my pistol and
the dot is gone, and it turns out in bright
daylight it's much different than at the range indoors. And
I had to completely go through the menus and fix
my red dot so that it would.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Work in the daylight, so you had the brightness turned
down for using indoors and step outside and it wasn't
bright enough to see it.
Speaker 10 (27:31):
Is that right, yes, sir?
Speaker 11 (27:32):
And so I guess my workaround is, you know, when
I'm gonna be in the bright daylight, I know just
five presses.
Speaker 10 (27:42):
More will be good.
Speaker 11 (27:43):
And then when I go back indoors and I'm going
to be mostly indoors or after dark, I push it
down five. I don't know if there's a better solution,
but I am really surprised, because there was an emergency
situation outside in the bright sunlight, I would have been
in trouble.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well, I'm glad you passed that along. That's a good info.
If I were you, I think I would be leaving
on the bright setting all the time. And then if
it turns out that that's just way too bright for
shooting indoors at the rains, and you got time. But
if you had a real self defense situation indoors, you're
just gonna have a really bright dot and you'll be
able to see that in little work. But I would
(28:22):
leave that on bright all the time.
Speaker 11 (28:25):
It's really bright though it's got a bloom on it,
and it's you know it's it's kind of annoyingly bright
if it's indoors.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Another okay, I got a thought for you, have you?
And this is a red dot?
Speaker 10 (28:39):
Right, it's a green red dot?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah, okay, it's a green. I was just going to
say green a lot of times. It's easy to pick up,
but you already got the green. So there goes there
goes my suggestion.
Speaker 11 (28:50):
So I just ran out of stuff and I had
to lock it because you know, in the hostural day,
it tends to mess with the setting, so it has
a lot down. And then when I was out on
the farm, I forgot how to unlock it.
Speaker 10 (29:03):
I had to look up to wait.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait, right when you say
you had to lock it, what are you talking about?
Speaker 11 (29:11):
So the two buttons on the side, will you know,
go through the settings. It can change the brightness, you
could change the radical. You know, it's all the sun.
And but if you if you're a holster or you're
you know, you're moving around, tends to push those buttons.
You can lock them so that okay, it doesn't press.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Okay, but it's not like you're not turning.
Speaker 11 (29:30):
It off though, No, no, no, it's shake away kind of.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Okay, Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Just you know, whether it's clothing or holster or something
that could rub up against those buttons, I would probably Yeah,
I'd like to have it locked, and I would just
I want it to be a set and forget it deal.
But yeah, if you're in a dark sass situation and
it comes up and you got a bright bloom, you
can still use it that way. But yeah, I could
see want to turn it down for targets shouting good information.
(29:57):
Thanks for the heads up and remind people if you're
doing all you're shooting at an indoor range with.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
A red dot, go outside and see if you can
see that the dot.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It may be that it's just way too bright outside
you be able to see that good information.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Eight six six Talk Gun Give.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Me a call.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
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Speaker 2 (30:24):
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(32:38):
right now we have the funeral and the memorial for
Charlie Kirk. A lot of things will come about as
a result of this murder. We're already seeing some of it.
People are not being able to get away with saying
completely horrible things like I'm glad he's dead, I'm glad
(32:59):
somebody shot him, should have shot him, somebody should shoot
more of you people. You know, they've been able to
get away with that and say things like that and
cancel us when inbody said anything close to that, and
yet they would get away with that. I think those
days are largely over. The Jimmy Kimmel thing. It's like, Okay,
(33:21):
he wasn't funny, hadn't been funny, losing viewers, but living
in the bubble of thinking you can do anything because
his people will protect him and they have. The Biden
administration went around canceling people, shutting down their social media accounts.
(33:43):
You said something that they didn't agree with. There will
be other things that will come from this. We don't
know what those things are yet. One thing that I'm
seeing is that the gun band lobby unbanned industry. At first,
I thought, well, that's just stupid, but they're just going
(34:05):
to do it. They're calling the Charlie Kirk murder a
school shooting because it happened on school campus. Generally speaking,
I think we can all agree that we think of
school shootings as being someone goes into a school and
shoots up a bunch of school kids, not a premeditative
(34:28):
assassination that takes place at that particular location. Why would
they do that because they inflate the numbers. There's a
site called the Gun Violence Archive. It was created because
the FBI's data on mass shootings wasn't nearly frightening enough
(34:52):
when they want to mobilize the public into banning guns.
When the FBI's definition of a mass shootings said, well,
there were roughly thirty of them a year, so they
would they the gun banters went in and said, we'll
change the definition. So instead of thirty a year, now
(35:15):
they're saying we're having hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of
year a year. Because a gangland shootout becomes a mass shooting,
an accidental shooting becomes a school shooting if it happens
within a half a mile of a school.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
House.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
We're going to scare the public if we can't run
up the numbers on school shootings and mass shootings. They lie,
as a matter of course, they lie as actually a
planned part of their agenda of they're operating procedures, procedure,
(36:01):
and we will lie our way into frightening the public
to into it. And look, you can scare the public
into accepting restrictions on the public, And that's what it's
all about. If we can frighten you to the point
where you are afraid for yourself and your family and
your children, you will accept restrictions. Hey, look at COVID,
(36:27):
you will say, yeah, we needed How often have you
heard this phrase, we must do something. Of course they
always say that as though no one's doing anything. Well,
of course that's not true. It's just that we're not
going to continue to do the things that don't produce
positive results. Gun control does not reduce crime. Gun control
(36:49):
does not reduce crime. There's not one instance of a
gun control law reduce crime. So they have to cook
the books, and we're seeing it in DC and Chicago
at other places. How do you get our crime rates down. Well,
(37:10):
let's just reclassify what a crime is. If nobody got killed,
it's not a serious violent felony. So our violent felonies
are now down. People are getting raped, people are getting mugged,
people are getting beat up, people are getting carjacked, people
(37:31):
are getting kidnapped. But if we take those out of
the category of being a violet felony, then we can say, see,
violent fellas are down. We're doing a great job. Chicago
is safe, DC is safe. It's really not a problem.
There's nothing to see here. And then inevitably you always
(37:53):
get a whistleblower, someone who comes forward and says whoop.
But they change the reporting requirements, they change the definitions,
and what we had three years ago we still have
the same, only more of it. They've just changed the
categories that those fit into. And now they can say
(38:13):
that our violent crime is down. You know what they
can't say is they can't change the definition on this.
They can't say that murders down because they can't reclassify murder.
So when they tell you that violent crime is down,
(38:34):
go into it and dig deep and say, yeah, but
what are.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Your murder numbers?
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Oh? Oh, they don't want to talk about that. Yeah,
that's because murders are not down, and those cities are
not safe. The people who live there know they're not safe,
and the gun banners will lie, lie, lie, And they're
doing it with the Charitie Kirk assassination, and they're doing
it to try to frighten the public, do to take
(39:00):
making no way your guns. Never forget that's the goal.
Just think about concealed carry. It's one of the things
we talk about a good bit around here, because personal
protection is the number one reason that people own guns.
(39:23):
If you don't have it with you, it cannot help you,
It cannot save you, it cannot help you to save
other people. The only way to have it with you
all the time is to carry it on your person.
And I understand that there's such a thing as off
body carry. Generally purses or man bags or shoulder bags
(39:45):
or something less than optimal would be how I would
put it. You tend to put those things down and
walk away from them.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
They're not with you.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
You can't get into a bag as quickly as you
can drag none from a holster, especially a holster that's
on your belt, whether it's an inside the waistband, system
outside the waistband appendix carry. You got to figure out
what works for you. I was thinking about a lot
(40:19):
of people don't get to the range very often, don't
take classes, don't get training. Okay, let's talk about the reality.
I can tell you all day long that you should
and you know I think you should. You should get training,
you should get to the range. You should practice. Takes time,
takes money. Got it understand. Here's the way that you
(40:43):
can practice. It's not exactly training, but KNDA, it doesn't
cost anything. We talk about dry firing a lot, but
let's go beyond that dry firing.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
I think of this.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Let's, you know, point the gut at something and carefully
press the trigger. What I would suggest, I almost said
what I'd like for you to do, but it's not
for me to like. It's for you to figure out
that it's going to work for you. What I would
suggest you do.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Is do dry.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Practice, not dry firing. Dry practice in a room where
there is no AMMO. You don't you unload your gun
in another room and you bring your gun and you're
holstering everything into this other room. There's no AMMO in
this room, and work on the motions of drawing and
(41:40):
dry firing, Drawing your gun out, aiming it on a target,
pressing the trigger, letting it go click, and then after
it goes click, continue to hold the sights on the target.
That's really really important. I see pay at the rains
all the time. They press the trigger, goes bang and
they dropping the gun down from the target. They don't
(42:02):
realize they're actually starting to drop the gun from the
target before it goes bang.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Why do you think it's hitting left and low? That's
part of it.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
If you dry practice and you got to do this
regularly daily would be best, two or three times a
week at least. How long do you need to do
it for? I don't know, not an hour, five minutes,
ten minutes, ten minutes max. Let's just say ten minutes.
And what are we going to do. We're gonna have
(42:33):
the gun in a holster. We're going to clear the garment,
whether it's a shirt tail or a vest or whatever
you're using as a cover garment. And do it at
half speed, half speeds plenty. You don't have to go
like superstow motion, but go half speed and just work
on the movement, work on the drill, work on the
getting the gun out work on a way that or
(42:54):
you're not getting a handful of shirt. When you grab
your pistol and you come out and you press. You've
got a target on the wall and you go click
and you hold the sights on the target after it
goes click. Then you set up your gun again where
you have to cock it, work this life whatever. Then
slowly put it back in the holster, take a deep breath,
(43:16):
look around, shake your hands, shake your arms, and they say, okay,
let's go again, and just do it over and over again.
Maybe you get one hundred reps in in five minutes.
And then a few days later you do it again
and you get a little bit faster, you get a
little bit more comfortable with it, to the point where
you can do it without thinking of it. And that's
(43:36):
when you're actually getting training and practice that can save
your life.
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
Back with you here if you want to join us.
Eight six six Talk Gun or Tom Talkgun. That's our number.
So there are people I get to work with that
I get to know that are then often get to
be friends with. And so of those folks are just
(00:36):
good people. And our next guest is one of those.
Jeff Hoffman from Blackhall's Ammunition joins us right now.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Hey Jeff, glad you could be here.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Hey Tom, good to be with you again.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So I call you an hour or so ago, and
I said, well, we're going to do the show. I
just want to touch base with you. Before you know it,
you and I are off to the races and we're
talking for fifteen minutes about guns and AMMO and everything else.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I said, wait, wait, wait, we need to save.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
This to get on the air. Man. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Well, when you're enthusiastic about something that, it's hard to
hold a bap.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
All right.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
For those who don't know Black Hill's ammunition. You're in
South Dakota. You've been making ammo for how many years now,
God's got to be.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Thirty years, about forty three, Holy.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Cow, forty three years a lot. And you may really fine,
Amaal Harts tell people if your rifle, your pistol won't
shoot with black Kill's ammal, you got a problem with
your gun. But the reality is, and I'd like for
you to talk about this for just a little bit,
probably the majority of what you do actually doesn't go
(01:39):
on the commercial market. It actually goes to the military
and sometimes to little small units that go special places.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Is that fair?
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Yeah, we've evolved that. We started off as a loader
of re manufactured what some people call reloaded ammunitions. We
started off with that, and we grew and the commercial
market grew, and then at one point we had an
opportunity to pursue a military bid. Kind of an interesting story,
(02:09):
and we surprised ourselves and we won that bid for
marksmanship unit, and then within three years we had all
of the marksmanship unit business for five, five, six, and
then after that the military kept coming to us for
other stuff. And that was ninety six when we won
our first military bid. And we've just continued to grow
(02:30):
it since then.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I feel like I ought to share with everybody your background.
You come from a career in law enforcement, and so
you made a career of taking care of people, and
now you make AMMO for people who keep us safe
and take care of us and go places and do
interesting things in the process. You have, I guess, maybe
(02:56):
learned how to make really good am O, partly because
the government.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Wires it, the government requires it, and we always had
a passion for doing it well. And because of my
law enforcement background, I had thirty eight years as a
Kappa one sort or another, and twenty eight years of
it as a sniper on a special response team. So
(03:22):
we had something in common with people who needed precision ammal.
We could speak their language and understand what they needed,
and that that was a significant motivator and advantage for us.
And it's worked out really well. We have kind of
a niche and precision Ammal.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
You told me a story before. I'd love it if
you would tell the story again about I don't know
who it was and what unit they're with, and maybe
you can't tell us, but they came in and told
you basically what you were doing and maybe more than
you realized you were doing for people out there.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Yeah, about oh, thirteen years after we started doing contracts
and about ten years after we started doing something beyond
marksmanship United Amo that is operational.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
You.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Samio, our liaison with the Navy, called up and he said, Jeff,
you have to realize what Black Hills is doing here.
You're saving lives. The difference between what you guys are
providing and what these guys would have had to use
has resulted and saved the lives. And we were simply
(04:36):
stunned by that. You know, it was something we hadn't
thought of, hadn't anticipated. But when that sinks in to realize,
you know that we've had lots of accolades, people calling
up and saying, hey, it did real well. I shot
this trophy or in competition, I won this trophy, and
(04:56):
there's been some world records set. But to realize that
just because we did our job right, that people are
alive today because they had better tools and they survived
a gunfight when maybe they wouldn't have had the capability
of range and precision and performance with whatever they would
(05:20):
have had to carry otherwise. To realize that people are
alive because of that. It was just stunning to us.
I just had no words. It was amazing, and we
shared that with everybody in the plants, and everybody realizes
that what we do is save lives. Our motto is
(05:40):
we built sharper swords for our warriors.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
You know, and that also applies what you learn in
doing that, and you've ended up doing some really special
stuff for some really special people. But we the people
out here, we get the benefit of that because you
make really really good animal for the rest of us,
whether it's for hunting competition or up to fend.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Yeah. It all started with five five six ammunition for competition,
and then after about three years the military came to
us and said we're starting a new system. At that time,
it was called the spr It was basically, has explained
to us, accurized sixteen a one that they built out
(06:27):
of old stock, the turning stock with a accurized system,
a good accurate barrel, suppressed scope, sided and they needed
to ammo for that, and they asked if we wanted
to participate. It wasn't a source of sod or a
request for quotation, it was just do you want to play?
(06:48):
And we said absolutely, and that became the Mark of
sixty two and that the seventy seven grain AMMO. It's
the only precision round in the military inventory, and it's
that's become for us kind of like Dirty Harry's Model
twenty nine. It kind of put us on the map
for precision AMMAL. And we also make a commercial version
(07:11):
of it, the Mark two sixty two Mod one dash
c C standing for commercials, so we can offer that
same performance to the to the commercial market.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Didn't you just get a new contract with that AMO.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yeah, we've actually received two of them recently, so that's
that's kind of good. For the past year and a half,
it's been kind of a dry spell with the military.
The had to wait for the drump budgets to take
effect in order to get some military funding. I think
is what happened that. I don't think Biden was real
(07:47):
big on funding military small arms ammial no.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Kidden, no kidding. So what do you what do you learn?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I mean when you're making super precision AMMO for the military,
So how does that? How do we been If I'm
more to get six to five creed more and I
want to go hut deer with that, how am I
benefiting from what you have learned in the military and
making that super duper amo.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
How does that work? It's way in a miamo.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
The military is different from commercial and even different from
law enforcement. And the difference is the military has specifications
that and not to bad mouth and how anybody else
does stuff. But the fact is the military has certain requirements,
(08:34):
certain levels that you have to meet, and commercial ammunition
typically the level levels are a bit nebulous or non existent.
A lot of times it's whatever's cheapest is what sells.
Because most people don't realize the difference. They think it's
like gasoline and you put in the car and everything
(08:55):
works good. The military is different than that. They buy
oftentimes on what's called value. They don't look for the cheapest,
they look for the best. And if you can, if
you can provide something better than what everybody else does,
that means that you're likely to win bids with it.
And that's what helps us survive because we can't be
(09:16):
the cheapest. We've nearly went out of business back in
our early years trying to be the cheapest store, to
say it nicely, the most economical. And the problem is
there's always there's always somebody cheaper. You know, either they
are on the way out of business and they don't
know it, or they've got some big marketing advantages that
you don't have. And for us, we have to sell
(09:37):
on the basis of performance, and so the military sets
high standards. They'll sometimes set standards so high that they're impossible,
just to see how close private industry can come. That's
not we want our first bid. Yeah, the first bid
was absolutely impossible to win. But we pointed out our
shortcomings and submitted it, and they accepted it anyway, saying, well,
(10:00):
you did better than everybody else.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
We didn't know.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
We weren't able to get it done by ourselves anyway.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Right, and let me let me.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
There's we've only got a couple of minutes staft. But
I want to say something here because you talking about
this cheap ammo and you can't say this because you
won't say this because you would never bad mouth anybody.
I know you too well. But just for people to
be aware, we all look at we shop for this
really cheap ammo. It's nine milimeters ammo for twenty two
cents around or whatever, and there's a lot of it
(10:28):
out there, and there but look, the reality is people
and I buy a lot of that go through. A
lot of it goes bang, but a lot of that
is really poor, ammo. These days, they're cranking it out fast.
If you take it to the range and I actually
try to shoot it for accuracy, you're gonna find that
some of this stuff, it's gonna be hard pressed to
do five to seven inch groups at twenty five yards
(10:49):
versus Black Hill's ambo really good, Ammo. It's more expensive.
It's just no getting around it. You're gonna be shooting
groups that are half that size or maybe a third
that size. And you know, I understand people are trying
to get the most for their dollars, Jeff, but at
the same time they do need to know what it
is they're getting.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
I think, yeah, that's true, and I think that there's
a couple of reasons for the existence of the acceptance
of that. One of them is the handguns take more
skill and practice to shoot, and there's a lot of
(11:26):
people that honestly haven't. It's the difference isn't within their
capability to discern shooting close range. But part of I guess,
part of our advantages for quite a number of years
I was a competitive pistol shooter, so we wouldn't accept
(11:51):
just something that would go bang and be kind of
generally good enough, would concentrate on making per precision.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
You know, you're you're just too nice, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
What you're really saying is that, look, there are people
out there who just are not good enough shots to
understand that they're shooting allows the ammo because they can't
tell the difference, you.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Know, And the fact is handguns are hard to shoot.
It makes a lot of training to get to the
point where you can tell the difference between ammo that's
just kind of okay and ammunition that's that's superior. But yeah,
you're you're right, some of it out there simply really
isn't up up to the task. And the other thing
(12:36):
is the economy of it. Right now, you're like you said,
you can get ammunition for two hundred, two hundred and
fifty dollars a thousand, because the market's in a little
bit of a slump, and when that happens, people are
selling stuff just to kind of turn money, and it
might be a good time to stock up on ammunition
right now. Is because of the ammo market being in
(12:57):
a bit of a slump.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
It is.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Let me drive people to your websites, black Dash, Hills
dot Com, Rifle, AMO Handgun, AMMO, Defensive, AMMO Competition, AMMO
Hunting AMMO.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
And you got the.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Marks two six to mod one dash see millpack very worthwhile. Jeff,
you guys make great AMMO, but you're more than that.
You are great people. I love your family, I love
the company, I love the people, Therefohen I get to
go through your place.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You are you are a great American, my friend.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Well, thank you. We feel like we're just doing our job,
but we're real proud to do it.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
There it is Blacktail's AMO. Thank you, Jeff. We'll talk later,
all right, Everybody, give me a holler. We have got
the door open and we are open. Line.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Put on your mind, give me a call at Tom Talk.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
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(15:16):
Visit gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 9 (15:24):
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Speaker 5 (15:59):
This is David Kodria from the Warren Guns Notes from
the Resistance. I want to congratulate Tom Gresham for thirty
consistent and information packed years of gun talk. Tom yours
is an influential, widely respected voice, and the information and
insights you've regularly given us over the decades have helped
me and all of us be better prepared and equipped
(16:19):
in our efforts at Defendant and promote the right of
the people to keep bare arms. So thank you, and
here's to the best being yet to come. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
David. Appreciate that I got an issue going on with
a rifle, and I've talked about the fact that I
incredibly drew a moose tag for Ido hard to get
four percent chance of drawing it. Actually, my buddy Mike
and I both drew, which was unbelievable. He's up there
right now hunting moose, kind of doing our early scouting,
(16:51):
but also he's hunting in North Idaho, sending me pictures
and giving me reports. And I'll probably maybe bead up
in the next week. I'm not sure. But I got a problem.
I got all rigged up with this three thirty eight
out six rifle that I got, been working up loads
for it, and about three weeks ago, right before it
(17:12):
was going to Ireland, I had two failures to fire
light primer strikes, and then I had a couple of
problems with extraction and I actually had to get a
cleaning rod and knock cases out of the chamber. See,
(17:35):
I'm putting these two things together and going, Okay, I'm
not liking what's going on here. What's happening. Well, the
rifle has now been set off. It's going to reform school.
I said, it's the Outcast Arms. These are the folks
that used to work for Melvin Forbes making ultralight arms, rifles,
same shop, same people. And my theory is this a
(17:59):
bound sit off a glen there at Outcast And he said, yeah,
that sounds about right. After the rifle was made, somebody
rechambered it from three thirty eight out six to three
thirty eight out six actually improved. So they ran a
(18:20):
new chamber reamer into it, and Glenn said, he says, man,
I don't like to do that. You know, if I'm
going to do an actually improved chamber, I like to
start with original. I don't like to remount one that's
already there. Let's talk for a second about headspacing. Headspacing
is basically the method to think about a rifle cartridge
that does not have a belt, not a belt of cartridge.
(18:42):
When it goes into the chamber, the thing that keeps
it from moving forward is the shoulder of the cartridge.
HiT's the shoulder of the chamber. If those two dimensions
are not correct, then your headspace is off. I think
what has happened here is that this has excessive headspace.
(19:02):
The cartries is going slightly, ever so slightly too far
into the chamber. When it does that, you don't get
real good primer strikes because the firing pin can't go
quite far enough, or the or the cartes itself moves
into the chamber ever so slightly, it absorbs a little
bit of the energy from the firing pin, so I
(19:24):
was getting primer hits. I could see the indentations in
the primer, but it wouldn't go off. If I tried
it again, it would go off, and then after it
go off, the extractor wouldn't pull the case out. So
what do you do with that? Well, I think I
haven't heard back from Glenn. He was gonna look at it.
I think what we're probably gonna end up having to
do to take the barrel off, cut a little bit
(19:49):
off of the back of the barrel the part that
screws into the gun the rifle, and then rechamber it,
start over and run a fresh chamber reamer in there
so we'd get a nice clean, fresh chamber cut into it.
The reason you have to back the are cut off
a little bit of the back of the barrel so
(20:10):
you have enough metal to cut into with this chamber raamer.
Now you do that, of course you have moved the
barrel in the stock slightly further back, so now the
bedding is not exactly right, so they're gonna have to
rebd the barrel into the stock. It gets complicated, doesn't
(20:33):
It's like, huh, one thing after another after another, because
whoever did the rechambering of it, I don't know who
that was somewhere along the way, some gunsmith, it appears
at this point, did a sloppy job of rechambering. And
the other thing is when I bought this rifle, I
did not know it was exactly improved. It's mark three
(20:55):
thirty eight six. They never even changed the stamping on
the barrel to mark that. It is one of the
things that can happen when you're buying a used gun,
and I just chalk it up to, Okay, stuff happens.
It's just what it is, and it hardly ever is
a problem buying a used rifle or handgun. But every
once in a while you're going to run into something
(21:16):
and you say, okay, that's just the cost of buying
use guns. That's what you're going to get Gaisley. So
all that to say is it doesn't look like that
rifle is gonna be ready in time for moose hunting.
Maybe in time for ail hunting, and two or three
weeks we'll see if it gets back in time for that.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
So what am I going to do?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Well, I have a two eighty four Winchester, and I'm
going to take that out for moose, and people are
gonna say, is that big enough for moose? Well, it's
basically one hundred and forty grand bullet going twenty nine
fifty feet per second. That would be a two seventy.
I would hunt a moose with a two seventy. So
this shoe worked just fine. Well, i'll let you know. Well,
(21:54):
we'll see what happens. But yes, that same ordeal. If
you use a good bullet and you hit them the
right place, you're probably going to get them and from
their forts for getting shot.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Maybe twenty yards fifty yards. We'll see.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I'll give you a moose support a couple of weeks.
All right, this is your time. We are open lines.
If you want to give me a call. It doesn't
really matter if you want to talk about your guns,
or can you want to have or think about buying,
(22:31):
or maybe you've never actually owned a gun and you
think about buying your first one. We'll give me a call.
We'll worked our way through it. There really, seriously are
no dumb questions. We can just work our way through it.
We'll figure it all out. Number here is eight six
six talk gun Also it's tom talk gun. Now I'll
get you in. James called us out of Arizona. James,
(22:53):
I got your your email and the cool video you
sent with your son shooting that. Lever actually got to
tell us about it.
Speaker 10 (23:02):
Yeah, that that's the cool one. And a big shout
out to Gary and Colleen Reader in flag Staff. They
that was my great great grandfather's He was given that
as a reward for catching a bank robber. He was
a marshall back in the eighteen hundreds and that gun
was made in eighteen ninety five. Well, Gary and his
crew went through it recently made it worthy to shoot,
(23:26):
and my son and I finally got to shoot it
two days ago.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
So in thirty thirty eight, fifty five, thirty.
Speaker 10 (23:35):
Eight to fifty five. Yes, I found some black Hills
makes a cowboy action mode for it to kind of
a you know soft of course that out of type load. Yeah,
that's Colleen said, Yeah, you need to shoot some soft
loads through that because if it breaks it might not
be fixable next time.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, that's an old gun. Its like one hundred and
thirty year old gun.
Speaker 10 (23:59):
Hundred and thirty years old, Yes, and it's Oh, it
was fun. It was so much fun.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Well, yeah, that.
Speaker 10 (24:05):
Was one of them, and a big shout out to
Gary's Crew.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Good deal. And then you got a revolver you want
to tell me about.
Speaker 10 (24:12):
Well, my son fiance wanted a gun and she didn't
want to semi out and wanted a revolver. She'd shot
several of mine. We found her a Rossy RP sixty three.
It's a three inch barrel, three fifty seven mag same
size as the K frame. Smith and Norston, the K
frame speedloaders all work on it and everything, and it's
(24:35):
it's not okay, it's not a performance center. It's not
anything like a Smith's performance center. But it was like
three hundred and sixty dollars brand new, so yeah it
was I thought it was a steal. I thought it
was a heck of a bargain. So yeah, somebody wants
a good revolver, I would highly recommend that, as well
(24:55):
as I'm going to recommend to my neighbor abscribing to
that LifeLock membership you just advertised.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
All right, so tell me about their rawsty.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
How does it shoot?
Speaker 10 (25:07):
It shoots great. It's a three inch, it's got fixed sights.
They make a four and a six inch with adjustable, but.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
She wanted to.
Speaker 10 (25:14):
She liked the three inch. She shots them of my
three entries before, and boy, it shoots point of aim.
It's just the site to regulate it just spot on,
just a nice smooth It's it's a little heavy on
a double action poll, but you know that's probably going
to work in and smooth out some right, And it's
(25:35):
you know, got a round butt on it. It's very
consumable and she loves it. So that's I couldn't be
happier for her.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You know. And you can also get from that Black
Hill's Cowboy Action Hammo in thirty eight special and it's
you know, low recoil.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
That'd be fun to shoot in there.
Speaker 10 (25:53):
Well yeah, but she's not a verse to recoil. She's
she's shot her shareff three fifty seven bags through us
and full house nags and that doesn't seem to bother.
So good for her, you know, she's yeah, I think
she normally carries thirty eight plus p's in it, but
she is. She she won't back down from the magnums.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Well a good deal, that is excellent, So that's a
good range before we appreciate.
Speaker 10 (26:15):
That, you bet you have a good day and take care.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Thanks James appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Hey. By the way, James said that the email to
me with the video that was cool. And Tom at
gun talk dot com is how you get via in
terms of email. Also over on x you can follow
me there. I am at gun Talk and of course
we've got our videos up on YouTube and everywhere else.
Just look for gun talk or gun talk media everywhere.
Let's while we're here, let's grab Bill online for out
(26:41):
of Illinois. Hello, Bill, you made it onto gun Talk.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Tom?
Speaker 11 (26:45):
I just wanted to let you and your listeners know
something happened to me. I had a have a facilic
carry every day, and I put a red dount on
it and sit it in at the range and and
you know, practice with it and it's perfect and I
lock it down. And so my friend invited me to
the farm where he lives and to shoot outside. And
(27:07):
I go out there and bring out my pistol and
the dot is gone, and it turns out in bright
daylight it's much different than at the range indoors. And
I had to completely go through the menus and fix
my red dot so that it would.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Work in the daylight, so you had the brightness turned
down for using indoors and step outside and it wasn't
bright enough to see it.
Speaker 10 (27:31):
Is that right, yes, sir?
Speaker 11 (27:32):
And so I guess my workaround is, you know, when
I'm gonna be in the bright daylight, I know just
five presses.
Speaker 10 (27:42):
More will be good.
Speaker 11 (27:43):
And then when I go back indoors and I'm going
to be mostly indoors or after dark, I push it
down five. I don't know if there's a better solution,
but I am really surprised, because there was an emergency
situation outside in the bright sunlight, I would have been
in trouble.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well, I'm glad you passed that along. That's a good info.
If I were you, I think I would be leaving
on the bright setting all the time. And then if
it turns out that that's just way too bright for
shooting indoors at the rains, and you got time. But
if you had a real self defense situation indoors, you're
just gonna have a really bright dot and you'll be
able to see that in little work. But I would
(28:22):
leave that on bright all the time.
Speaker 11 (28:25):
It's really bright though it's got a bloom on it,
and it's you know it's it's kind of annoyingly bright
if it's indoors.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Another okay, I got a thought for you, have you?
And this is a red dot?
Speaker 10 (28:39):
Right, it's a green red dot?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah, okay, it's a green. I was just going to
say green a lot of times. It's easy to pick up,
but you already got the green. So there goes there
goes my suggestion.
Speaker 11 (28:50):
So I just ran out of stuff and I had
to lock it because you know, in the hostural day,
it tends to mess with the setting, so it has
a lot down. And then when I was out on
the farm, I forgot how to unlock it.
Speaker 10 (29:03):
I had to look up to wait.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait, right when you say
you had to lock it, what are you talking about?
Speaker 11 (29:11):
So the two buttons on the side, will you know,
go through the settings. It can change the brightness, you
could change the radical. You know, it's all the sun.
And but if you if you're a holster or you're
you know, you're moving around, tends to push those buttons.
You can lock them so that okay, it doesn't press.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Okay, but it's not like you're not turning.
Speaker 11 (29:30):
It off though, No, no, no, it's shake away kind of.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Okay, Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Just you know, whether it's clothing or holster or something
that could rub up against those buttons, I would probably Yeah,
I'd like to have it locked, and I would just
I want it to be a set and forget it deal.
But yeah, if you're in a dark sass situation and
it comes up and you got a bright bloom, you
can still use it that way. But yeah, I could
see want to turn it down for targets shouting good information.
(29:57):
Thanks for the heads up and remind people if you're
doing all you're shooting at an indoor range with.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
A red dot, go outside and see if you can
see that the dot.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It may be that it's just way too bright outside
you be able to see that good information.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Eight six six Talk Gun Give.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Me a call.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
This is gun Talk.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Do you want to have a special rifle that can
do almost everything and that your friends don't have? Hi?
I'm Tom Gresham, host of gun Talk, and.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Here's the deal.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
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(32:05):
Do everything, rifle hunting, target shooting, defensive use, gun talkscout
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Get your g T thirty gun talkscout dot com. Of course,
(32:38):
right now we have the funeral and the memorial for
Charlie Kirk. A lot of things will come about as
a result of this murder. We're already seeing some of it.
People are not being able to get away with saying
completely horrible things like I'm glad he's dead, I'm glad
(32:59):
somebody shot him, should have shot him, somebody should shoot
more of you people. You know, they've been able to
get away with that and say things like that and
cancel us when inbody said anything close to that, and
yet they would get away with that. I think those
days are largely over. The Jimmy Kimmel thing. It's like, Okay,
(33:21):
he wasn't funny, hadn't been funny, losing viewers, but living
in the bubble of thinking you can do anything because
his people will protect him and they have. The Biden
administration went around canceling people, shutting down their social media accounts.
(33:43):
You said something that they didn't agree with. There will
be other things that will come from this. We don't
know what those things are yet. One thing that I'm
seeing is that the gun band lobby unbanned industry. At first,
I thought, well, that's just stupid, but they're just going
(34:05):
to do it. They're calling the Charlie Kirk murder a
school shooting because it happened on school campus. Generally speaking,
I think we can all agree that we think of
school shootings as being someone goes into a school and
shoots up a bunch of school kids, not a premeditative
(34:28):
assassination that takes place at that particular location. Why would
they do that because they inflate the numbers. There's a
site called the Gun Violence Archive. It was created because
the FBI's data on mass shootings wasn't nearly frightening enough
(34:52):
when they want to mobilize the public into banning guns.
When the FBI's definition of a mass shootings said, well,
there were roughly thirty of them a year, so they
would they the gun banters went in and said, we'll
change the definition. So instead of thirty a year, now
(35:15):
they're saying we're having hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of
year a year. Because a gangland shootout becomes a mass shooting,
an accidental shooting becomes a school shooting if it happens
within a half a mile of a school.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
House.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
We're going to scare the public if we can't run
up the numbers on school shootings and mass shootings. They lie,
as a matter of course, they lie as actually a
planned part of their agenda of they're operating procedures, procedure,
(36:01):
and we will lie our way into frightening the public
to into it. And look, you can scare the public
into accepting restrictions on the public, And that's what it's
all about. If we can frighten you to the point
where you are afraid for yourself and your family and
your children, you will accept restrictions. Hey, look at COVID,
(36:27):
you will say, yeah, we needed How often have you
heard this phrase, we must do something. Of course they
always say that as though no one's doing anything. Well,
of course that's not true. It's just that we're not
going to continue to do the things that don't produce
positive results. Gun control does not reduce crime. Gun control
(36:49):
does not reduce crime. There's not one instance of a
gun control law reduce crime. So they have to cook
the books, and we're seeing it in DC and Chicago
at other places. How do you get our crime rates down. Well,
(37:10):
let's just reclassify what a crime is. If nobody got killed,
it's not a serious violent felony. So our violent felonies
are now down. People are getting raped, people are getting mugged,
people are getting beat up, people are getting carjacked, people
(37:31):
are getting kidnapped. But if we take those out of
the category of being a violet felony, then we can say, see,
violent fellas are down. We're doing a great job. Chicago
is safe, DC is safe. It's really not a problem.
There's nothing to see here. And then inevitably you always
(37:53):
get a whistleblower, someone who comes forward and says whoop.
But they change the reporting requirements, they change the definitions,
and what we had three years ago we still have
the same, only more of it. They've just changed the
categories that those fit into. And now they can say
(38:13):
that our violent crime is down. You know what they
can't say is they can't change the definition on this.
They can't say that murders down because they can't reclassify murder.
So when they tell you that violent crime is down,
(38:34):
go into it and dig deep and say, yeah, but
what are.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Your murder numbers?
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Oh? Oh, they don't want to talk about that. Yeah,
that's because murders are not down, and those cities are
not safe. The people who live there know they're not safe,
and the gun banners will lie, lie, lie, And they're
doing it with the Charitie Kirk assassination, and they're doing
it to try to frighten the public, do to take
(39:00):
making no way your guns. Never forget that's the goal.
Just think about concealed carry. It's one of the things
we talk about a good bit around here, because personal
protection is the number one reason that people own guns.
(39:23):
If you don't have it with you, it cannot help you,
It cannot save you, it cannot help you to save
other people. The only way to have it with you
all the time is to carry it on your person.
And I understand that there's such a thing as off
body carry. Generally purses or man bags or shoulder bags
(39:45):
or something less than optimal would be how I would
put it. You tend to put those things down and
walk away from them.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
They're not with you.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
You can't get into a bag as quickly as you
can drag none from a holster, especially a holster that's
on your belt, whether it's an inside the waistband, system
outside the waistband appendix carry. You got to figure out
what works for you. I was thinking about a lot
(40:19):
of people don't get to the range very often, don't
take classes, don't get training. Okay, let's talk about the reality.
I can tell you all day long that you should
and you know I think you should. You should get training,
you should get to the range. You should practice. Takes time,
takes money. Got it understand. Here's the way that you
(40:43):
can practice. It's not exactly training, but KNDA, it doesn't
cost anything. We talk about dry firing a lot, but
let's go beyond that dry firing.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
I think of this.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Let's, you know, point the gut at something and carefully
press the trigger. What I would suggest, I almost said
what I'd like for you to do, but it's not
for me to like. It's for you to figure out
that it's going to work for you. What I would
suggest you do.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Is do dry.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Practice, not dry firing. Dry practice in a room where
there is no AMMO. You don't you unload your gun
in another room and you bring your gun and you're
holstering everything into this other room. There's no AMMO in
this room, and work on the motions of drawing and
(41:40):
dry firing, Drawing your gun out, aiming it on a target,
pressing the trigger, letting it go click, and then after
it goes click, continue to hold the sights on the target.
That's really really important. I see pay at the rains
all the time. They press the trigger, goes bang and
they dropping the gun down from the target. They don't
(42:02):
realize they're actually starting to drop the gun from the
target before it goes bang.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Why do you think it's hitting left and low? That's
part of it.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
If you dry practice and you got to do this
regularly daily would be best, two or three times a
week at least. How long do you need to do
it for? I don't know, not an hour, five minutes,
ten minutes, ten minutes max. Let's just say ten minutes.
And what are we going to do. We're gonna have
(42:33):
the gun in a holster. We're going to clear the garment,
whether it's a shirt tail or a vest or whatever
you're using as a cover garment. And do it at
half speed, half speeds plenty. You don't have to go
like superstow motion, but go half speed and just work
on the movement, work on the drill, work on the
getting the gun out work on a way that or
(42:54):
you're not getting a handful of shirt. When you grab
your pistol and you come out and you press. You've
got a target on the wall and you go click
and you hold the sights on the target after it
goes click. Then you set up your gun again where
you have to cock it, work this life whatever. Then
slowly put it back in the holster, take a deep breath,
(43:16):
look around, shake your hands, shake your arms, and they say, okay,
let's go again, and just do it over and over again.
Maybe you get one hundred reps in in five minutes.
And then a few days later you do it again
and you get a little bit faster, you get a
little bit more comfortable with it, to the point where
you can do it without thinking of it. And that's
(43:36):
when you're actually getting training and practice that can save
your life.
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