November 6, 2025 • 43 mins
Airguns aren't what they used to be. In this Gun Talk Nation episode, Ryan Gresham sits down with Val Gamerman of Pyramyd Air to explore how airgun technology has exploded—from Olympic-level precision rifles to big bore hunting platforms and tactical-style crossbows. Discover how airguns now rival firearms in performance, the rise of full-auto BB guns, adjustable power brake barrels, and how innovation is reshaping shooting sports, training, and even self-defense.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Black Hills Ammunition, NRA ARC, Military Armament Corp., Range Ready Studios, EOTECH, and Kimber.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 11.06.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Black Hills Ammunition, NRA ARC, Military Armament Corp., Range Ready Studios, EOTECH, and Kimber.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 11.06.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Those are not just little stingers. They are compact, but
they deliver some power, certainly enough to hunt small game.
But in the US they're probably just looked at us like,
oh my god, what is this thing?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah, I mean, can you imagine being a bad guy
and you get Crossbode. I'm Ryan Gresham and this this
is Guntognation. Guntognation is brought to you by Black Hills Ammunition,
(00:42):
n r A ARC, Mac Range Ready Eotech and Kimber
Welcome into Guntognation. On gun Dognation talk about guns, but
we really talk about all sorts of things. I always
say we're very broad in what we cover and one
of the areas that's a fun subject matter. And I
(01:04):
always love talking to this guy, Val Gamerman from Pyramid
or as a lot of us know it, Pyramid Air.
You guys are the ear gun experts, the airgun people,
and air guns is this crazy category of technology and
fun and I always have fun when we talk and
when I'm looking at your website. But Val, welcome in, man.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Oh, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And it's always good to talk to you and meet
you virtually like this where impersonally bump into each other
at an event somewhere.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So, I mean everybody knows. I think a lot of
people know Pyramid Air because it's been around for a
long time. I know, you guys rebranded to just Pey
Pyramid you, I mean, what was the story there.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, so we've always been known as Pyramid Air Pyramid
Air Guns the website, and then we did make a
decision a while ago to expand into outdoors and and
did not want to change the website, and so we
had to come up with a creative way of explaining
why air in the name of the company and the domain.
So we came up with Adventures and Recreation back in
(02:11):
twenty three or late twenty two. No AI was used
at that time to come.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Up with that.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
We didn't have the benefit of cheating with air.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
We did not have the gun for the AI, so
it's all human ideation. So that was great, and we
started expanding into archer and so on and so forth.
But yeah, our DNA, you're right, and our core, our
core strength and core expertise are and air guns.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Which are a cool category. That's that's effect.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Well, if any I'll agree with you, I mean, yeah,
I mean, if anybody's been listening to our show and
our content for a while. They've probably heard you and
I talk and doing some things with air guns. But
when we say air guns, probably a lot of people
off the bat think of maybe guns, pellet guns. The
old you know, I've had to pump it three times
(03:00):
or twelve times or whatever. But I mean a lot
has changed over the years and recently. If you go
on to like I have your website pulled up here
because it's really fun to look at the stuff you
see here is not what anyone's probably thinking of to say.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Oh yeah, I would say, so funny you should mention
three pump. I think people growing up in seventies would
remember three pump rule, don't pump it more than three times,
because then really IRCs imagine parents letting their kids play
with baby guns.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
And shoot each other at BBS today. That's unimaginable, right right,
I'm not a crazy world with it.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
But yeah, the air guns are of.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
The day you were how long gone.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
And while the multipumper still exists and the Daisy Red
Riders still exist probably will exist as long as Christmas
Story exists in airs every year and days eight eighty
and cross Monzone and sixty all of these air guns
still exists, but the power plans, the power of air guns,
the functionality, it's all just light years ahead of where
(04:08):
it was even fifteen years ago, which.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Which enables people do more with them. Right, So, I
mean people are competing with air guns, they're hunting with
air guns. Maybe let's just talk about that, talk about
the competition side and the types of competitions that exist
out there and the type of shots people are making.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Sure, if you've not followed air gun competition in the past,
you've probably all you've heard in the past is ten
meter and that's an Olympic sport and it's extremely.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Boring to watch.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
If you ever been to any Olympic event or state
event or a local event, it's very quiet. You're not
allowed to cheer because it distracts the competitors. I was
literally told to stop cheering from my guy ten years
ago in Color Olympics.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Gig down, sir, it's it's our guy, like I.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Want him to win. Like, no, those like that.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So I'm not putting down ten terre competitions are great
and a good way to measure your success and ability
to concentrate. But the BB guns and pelagons of the
past and seventies, you're mostly shooting soda cans a little
with pass control, really tiny kind of stuff, nothing really powerful.
In fact, there are some local restrictions on use of
(05:26):
pelagons for hunting specifically because you would only hurt the
animal back then and don't really achieve anything. It will
be inhumane and cruel. And so if we run into
some of these restrictions now and they're like, well that
doesn't apply anymore, like why would you have this restriction?
But yeah, So if you want to hear scientific term
player guns, it's called non powdered guns, and that's actually
(05:48):
thatched definition in the in the US non at the
federal level, which differentiates air guns from farms by virtue
of firearms powered by chemical react fire is a chemical reaction,
whereas air guns are not powered by chemical reaction because
either compressed air or compressed CO two are expending and
pushing the projectile out of the out of the air gun.
(06:11):
So coming back to competition, yeah, the airguns have become
become a lot more powerful and I would say probably
the most the most interesting event that has taken the
air guns world by surprise over the past eight nine
years is Benress one hundred yards? So Benress has existed
(06:34):
there twenty five yards, fifty yards, but one hundred yards.
People were shooting bullseyes with regular pellets or maybe I
shouldn't say regular, but heavy air pellets in twenty five
and thirty calver So you're you're not talking. Yeah, you
can't really shoot. I've seen people compete with long soe
and seven one hundred yards. It's extremely difficult. As you
(06:58):
can imagine, the is there light. So people tend to
the good words heavier and larger calibers just to give
some stability and enjoy a better ballistic efficient down range.
And yeah, that one is definitely a little bit fonner
to watch because there are a few events around the country,
(07:22):
less so around the world because of you know, general
aversion and dislike for guns in general outside of the US.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
But there are some thirty col pellet. How heavy is that?
What kind of green weight?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh, it's a I would say it's anywhere from forty
four to se many grain, so the.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Grain of a thirty year on half pellet. Now I
guess these are Are we talking about PC's PCP zero guns.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, PCP is one is the power plant that gets
you the most the most power you can expect from
an air or a pela gun, I should say specifically,
and you're getting in thirty caliber. There is production in
their gowns that get you a hondred foot towns of
(08:13):
muzzle energy and some go up there. And there are
definitely big bore aer guns, which I think you and
I talked about in the past a few times. And
the power there is not just mind boggling, but it's
certainly above with a handgun, a firearm hanggun can deliver.
(08:34):
So you're talking to hot foot downs, so the muzzle
is not of of the question. And when you look
at how the country is reacting in some of the
states are reacting. In the past five years, we went
from no states maybe six years no states along hunting
with their guns are hunting big game with their counts,
to now over twenty five states allowing it. Now there
(08:57):
is no dedicated season that any state has provided to
big bore airgun hunting, but most of the time, depending
on the state and what the DNR believes is the
right season or time, it could be part of the
primitive weapons or archery or part of the firems depending
(09:20):
on really what the state beliefs is the right time
and place, but it.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Is an opportunity for other types of hunting. And just
you know, as I poke around on the website, I
mean right off the bat, you click on new air guns,
you might see something that's a replica BB gun, that's
a Glock Gin three Block nineteen eleven that you could
(09:46):
I'm sorry night glock nineteen you can go train with
that costs sixty or seventy dollars or something like that.
And then you have I'm looking at this Walther LG
five hundred I tech that is somewhere in the ne
neighborhood of forty seven hundred and fifty five one hundred
dollars that is extremely accurate and really set up for
(10:08):
the ultimate and competition. So there's just a crazy range
of possibilities there.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
So this is one thing that fascinates me by air
guns and always has is just the extent of applications
in utility. So as you mentioned, here's your replica beauty guns.
You just trained with it in your basement without waking
up the whole house. When that goes off, it's pretty quiet,
but yet you do still get to feel in your
(10:34):
hand of recoil in an air gun role, it's called blowback.
That's functionality if you want to feel a recoil. It's
not as strong as an animimerror, but it's not too
far off, I would say. So it does make you
teach you you to control the gun in your hand.
And that's extremely cheap affordable by I don't know you're expecting.
(11:00):
Even though the prices of firearms MO have have not
sky quite skyrocketed, Uh, they're not cheap either.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
And with BB's you're.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Shooting a fraction of a penny per shot, right, Yeah,
a little bit on the C or two cartridge. So
maybe if you factor everything in, you're spending you know, five.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Cents per shot or two cents per shod.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That's a whole I better than there's twenty five cents
for nine. Yeah, most of us can't go shooting nine
in our basement or in our backyard.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, you certainly. I can't.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I have two ecres, but I can't. I would be
in trouble the sheriff if I go start practicing my
firearms in my backyard. So I certainly can do that, uh,
pretty pretty easily with air guns. So you have this
bb gun, which is a replica that allows it to
train and actually enjoy enjoy shooting a gun as your known.
(11:55):
And then you have, you know, up from up there,
you have maybe some compers to shoot soda cans, you
have pass control, the traditional brake barrels. There are some
actually interesting innovation coming out, and then the area we
can talk about it later this year. And that's what
probably a lot of your viewers and listeners know about
as a break real gown. You just you know, why
(12:16):
is it called braik barrel. Nobody's breaking the barrel, but
you tip on it and it teps like you're breaking
the barrel, right, softer go the name.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And bark barrels have a lot of power.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Too, they do, so that's definitely you know, those are
you're talking to eighteen foot pounds probably in twenty two
caliber and it's certainly more than enough for a squirrel
up to thirty five yards or.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Something like that.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And then up from there you're talking twenty five and PCP,
and there are some brain barrels in twenty five that's
actually also a fact. And then you have twenty five, thirty,
thirty five, forty five, fifty caliber air guns. That and
that's where you get into these big ware air guns.
They are absolutely lethal and and uh incredible. To actually
(13:06):
have experience of shooting air gun like that is quite interesting.
Everybody who shot is like, oh, that's not at all
what I expected.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, the other factor is, like you kind of said earlier,
air guns are not firearms. They're not regulated day, So
I mean you can you can send that to you
ship it to people's home directly, right, and also.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Of New Jersey, this is the most favored state.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Of Okay, you have full auto air guns.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Right, you do have a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
You don't need to have a tax stamp to uh
to own a lot of b begun. So that will
share directly to your door and fells your incredible fun.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
You can.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
You probably can find clips of it on it on
the internet. People are just having a blaste with it.
And literally I think that when you brought up that
five thousand dollars Walter ten meter gun, that's a ten
meter gown. Yeah, this is this is Olympic level competition.
In national competitions. There is a lot more following for
(14:20):
those types of air gowns in Europe than it is
in the In the United States. My favorite comment from
twenty from Olympics of twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Twenty four twenty, I want.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
To say where our team US team didn't perform very
well at the Olympics, and somewhere on air fifteen dot com,
I think somebody said, like, I can't even believe our
guys can shoot B B guns, and I'm like, these.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Are not BB guns.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
These are five thousand dollars, you know, creations that are
very complex in comparison to firearms. And actually that's interesting,
right if you know your listeners know there's a lot
more parts in any air gun and a lot more
complexity in an air gun than any firearm. Really, well,
(15:03):
my explanation, I'm not an engineer, but my common sense
explanation is just because it's about how the energy is
transferred and what makes the projectile fly. In case of firearms,
the the powder and the chemical reaction to fire is
what the projectile fly. The gun's job, the farmer's job
is simple, just keep the barrel straight and make sure
(15:26):
that the rest of it happens. Kind of because the
energy was self contained in the casing and the projected
sale versus with an air gun, no matter what the
airgun is. You need to transfer that power, that compressed
the AIRCO two from wherever that source of that power
is all the way to behind the pellette or BB
(15:48):
to get it pushed out of the barrels. So that
transfer that energy with the most in the most efficient
way is where all the complexity exists. So I think
about you need to pump that air. Let's take that
the pumper from somebody's You pump it and you just
store it somewhere and if there's three pumps, right, and
then you pull the trigger and that compressed air is
(16:10):
released and something is going through the gun and transferring
and pushing and eventually the rest of the breach and
then they projectile actually leads the barrel. So yeah, it's
a lot more parts if you look at the manufacturing
side and build material.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Oh what's going on here? Especially in PCP guns. I'm
not kidding.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
There are some PCP guns that have one hundred and
sixty O rings in them. Just think about that. Yeah,
I'm not kidding. So I don't think you have any
orange of the fire. I can think of maybe the
few places, yeah, like one it's.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
A point though, Yeah, I mean because of a regular
like metallic cartridge. I mean the gunpowder and the primer
and all that is making that bullet come out. Whereas
you put the projectile, the bullet into a proba of
gun BB gun whatever. It's just that, and then you
have to store the air, have to whatever. That's a
good point. Now, you guys are doing a bunch of
(17:04):
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out range Ready Studios dot com. All right, welcome back
to guntog Nation, talking with Val Gamerman from Pyramid or
(18:53):
Pyramid Air as people still probably think of you guys though.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Ventures and Recreation.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
In recreation Pyramid with two wy's if you're looking for
this and now you guys the adventures and recreation kind
of hit that keep expanding what you're doing on your
website and the products you offer. I look, I tend
to look at like the air guns, and then I
(19:20):
look at all the other stuff, and I look at
stuff that probably some people will say that's weird. I mean,
you do stuff in archery, you do crossbows, and you've
got some real modern products that probably a lot of
people haven't seen.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, I think I was surprised. One of the ones
that actually was very interesting to see was steamboat, and
they call it air six because there's six rounds, six
arrows that go into the magazine. So there's a magazine
on the crossbow. And while that one particularly is not
(19:57):
semi automatic, and it does require for you to pull
the to pull the string back for every shot, it
looks intimidating as heck.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And from what I know, in Europe, they.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Are actually purchased and acquired for self defense because people
in Europe are not living in free countries for most apart,
and they cannot on a firearm easily. So those are
not just little stingers. They are compact, but they deliver
some power, certainly enough to hunt small game. But in
(20:32):
the US they're probably just looked at as like, oh
my god.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
What is this thing?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, I mean, can you imagine being a bad guy
and you get crossbowed.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
No, I mean that's why I mean on the archery side,
I didn't really full understand archer until some time ago,
because the power of a vertical bow is nothing in
comparison to a power to get from a firearm, and
yet the damage that can do on the hunting side
is just colossal. And I didn't connect the mentally myself
until you know, if you think about this elongated projectile
(21:04):
that is just like twenty inches of thirty just long,
and that yeah, I can do a lot of damage.
So that steamboat crossbow, those arrows are probably you know,
that long. They're not very long, but it's certainly a
lot longer than a bullet.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I'm even looking at the steamboat, the ar six stinger compact.
It's repeating crossbow. This just gets to be like people
having the thought of this, and you do have these
arrows or a bolt, so depending on people how people
look at it, You've got like the target ones, but
there are hunting ones that have broadheads on them. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So that's the interesting part that I don't know of
a real hunting scenario where you get a follow up
shot where it will wait for you to cock it again.
But it's certainly better than having to re put the
arrow onto the slide and then publably like so it's
(22:02):
definitely better suited for a follow up shot at quick
follow up shot in a few seconds. But it's mind boggling.
So there is a lot of innovation in archery as well,
and not just in power of crossbows. I do think
they're having difficulty pushing the boundaries of crossbows beyond four
(22:22):
hundred and fifty feet per second, even though there's a
few that claim five hundred three per second. I don't
know with what light arrows this is being achieved. Maybe
not the brild hads and the air guns we're trying
and are trying to catch up. There are arrow launching airguns.
I don't think you and I ever talked about it. Yeah, yeah,
(22:45):
so there are airguns that can launch arrows, and they
certainly compete with cropless on the power are those that
can launch it well above five hundred feet per second
and I'm going to six hundred fet per second with
a one hundred and thirty grain arrow or bolt, I
should say, with a broad head on it. That's just
(23:05):
devastating power. That is beyond it's a huge hole.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Let's put it this.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Way, and with that kind of energy. Again, the only
the only difference between that and the some firearm is
that the effective distance and lethal distance is a lot. Sure,
obviously it's a huge drop.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Well, it's one of the reasons, like arrows are so effective.
And if people listening to this or more on the
gun side of things, we'll talk about ballistic coefficient and
the penetration and how it flies through the air, and
what we're really talking about with the BC of a
bullet is how long the bullet is, how streamlined that
bullet is. Well, I mean, if we're talking about on
(23:49):
maybe even a short crossbow at twelve inch to even
a twenty or thirty inch arrow or bolt or whatever
like that, like you talk about the penetration that you
can get and what that does. It's pretty interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I was fascinated when it just connected with me years
ago because I could never understand how is this even
ethical to hunt for the bow? Right like in million ages, like, yeah,
there's no other equipment than that's all they had. But
I was I was thinking, like my god, this this
bow that launches an arrow that flies you know, two
(24:29):
hundred and fifty feet per second. I mean, how has
this even how does it even feel right aside from
you know, like that's the primal way of hunting, and
it connected with me because the devastation of these arrows
cause with broad hats is just mind boggling.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
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out lately that people seem to be excited about?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Yeah? I think so, so this year. I would say
there's a lot of there is.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
It's like any fashion that people enjoy their fashions, right,
So in firearms and this is like, hey, meter was hot?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Was it two years ago? Was there still hot? I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Uh. And uh for air guns, I would say for
the past two years, compact and powerful air guns have
become some kind of a trend.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
So there's a lot of a lot of interest.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
In compact and you have powerful air guns that are
more than enough to do pass control. They're very tactically looking.
Uh and uh actually just cool. It's cool to look at,
cool to own.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
And there's a lot of innovation. I think the one
that stands out if you look at if you think
about bray barrels and traditional brain barrels. I've always traditionally
been powered by coiled spring right there, the spring inside.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
The air gun. And let me break that. They're we
pushed this spring down.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
It.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Comes its compressed right then you pull the trigger. The
coiled spring just.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
And pushes the air and then that pushes the palette. Well.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
In the late nineteen nineties a guy invented using gas springs,
and those gas business became very popular in twoy ten
and gas piston is replaced direct replacement of coiled springs.
And you're sure audience and have maybe heard or seeing
(28:37):
that where it looks and feels more like a strut
in your cartront or improved the hood and maybe not
the trun put the hood and then there is like
a strut that comes up and holds it up in
the air. So similar concept, of course, very different. There's
some hundred psi pressures, I get distant, and then then
(28:58):
the repeater barrel aerguns were introduced, probably about twenty.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Twelve or so reintroduced.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
So there's a real magazine, a rotary magazine on some
sword that is living near the breach. And then you
don't need to like humble and put the pellette inside
the breach of the brake barrel. You just break a
barrel and it cycles the magazine and loads the pellet
into the breach. This year there's interesting innovation where I
(29:26):
don't know around you've owned brake barrel's how easy is
it for you to to brump it break it away? Well?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
I have like my trick is you slap the top
of the barrel to break it open, right, because it's
if it's probably if it's made well, it's a little tighter, right.
It takes a little bit of muscle to it right,
and then you have I mean I could do it,
but I think there's a little technique to it where
you have to make sure you use the leverage we
drop grab at the very top of the barrel to
(29:53):
cock it and do that. But it also for all shooters.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah, so there is there is a technique to it.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
You put a butt stock of the you on your
lap and then you're correcting to grab it at the
very end of the barrel, at the very mazzle or
as far as it can give yourself mechanical advantage and
make it easier for you. But anyway, the most powerful
ones are still hard to cock. I mean the cocking
effort can go thirty five thirty five pounds, forty pounds,
(30:21):
forty five pounds. So my wife couldn't do it, My
fourteen year old couldn't do it. It was an interesting product.
It was launched this year, just coming to the market
now where you can adjust the power that it takes
to cock your to cock your gun, and so if
you want to enjoy your medium power and medium f
(30:43):
cocking effort. You can just use it as this, but
if you want to make it more powerful and maybe
stretch it out and give it more oomph, you can
easily do that. Just pump it a little bit the
pump that comes with it, or if you want to
make it easier for your ten year old to cock
it under superb and of course you can release the pressure.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Inside of this.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
And so I'm excited about that because if you ever
bought an air gun in a store and brought it home,
you you can do what you need to do, either
take care of a chipmunk issue or a squirrel. But
if you want to shoot soda cans with your kid,
you will be cocking that pray barrel for him or
(31:24):
her all the time. Yourself you will be doing it.
The kid won't be able to ten year old won't
be able to do it. So that omni store may
rifle will be very interesting to see how how audience
takes to it and how how the market reacts to it.
I think it'll be It'll be cool and interesting. So
lots of more powerful big warrior guns coming to the market.
(31:46):
I'm always curious, are they going to tap out it
one thousand foot pounds of muzzle energy or there is more.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
I'm not I'm not. I don't.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I'm not enough of an engineer to know what's possible
with compressed air as opposed to burning powder.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
So yeah, yeah, a lot of two thousand ps i.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Tank.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, the days of three thousand psi ryan are long gone.
A lot of guns are using forty five hundred g
SI and that's so Yeah. For comparison, your your your
car tire is about thirty thirty two, right, so it's
not just one thousand, yes, I five hundreds I So yeah,
it's a hundred, one hundred, twenty times.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
More than your car tire. Can you imagine? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:37):
You have you have like one favorite right now that
you just are loving on what you guys are doing.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Uh, I like, uh, yeah, that's a good question. I
Anything I say will be held against me.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
I'll just tell you that right now.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I want to get you in trouble. So you know,
because you guys, I know that pyramids all of the products,
so that and all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
But yeah, I think I will stay away from naming
specific products that are my favorite because I know for
a fact the minute I say something, I will either
get a phone call or a text message.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
And it will be friendly, but it will be.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
For good.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
I love friends.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
They're all you're all beautiful.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah there, we love you all. We love you all. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
So I think that there is definitely just pockets of
innovation going on. I think that uh, the the there
are multiple companies that are innovating. That's what makes it
really cool and exciting for me.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
I think.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Adding repeaters into the multi pumping world was interesting, so
not Brave Burrols, but actually multipompers they need to pump
and then results in magazine. I think that air Ventory
started it, uh and Gamma picked up Cross and picked
of this year and that's interesting. We didn't talk about that,
but there is some innovation in there as well. I
(34:06):
think Brave Burrel innovations that started off with repeaters from
Gamma in point five that continue to dominate this space
in my opinion and doing a really good job in
that respect.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
I think that adjustable gas.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Pistems from air Ventory this year where the omni storm
is going to be really interesting. Compact PCP Omeras did
a very good job with notos. I think Erritory has
some interesting models launching this year. Crossman is probably launching
something interesting in twenty twenty six or early twenty twenty
(34:43):
six based on what I've seen. So there is a
lot of There is a lot of innovation and people
trying to I don't even know if I can say
trying very hard, because there's so much opportunity with air guns,
which I think is a little bit loss on firearms.
How do you innovate a firearm?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Tell me one great innovation in the farms industry.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
And I love firearms. Out on a lot of firearms,
but it's hard to get my attention when somebody announces
a new farm product. I look at it the those
such as another handgun, This is another bold action rifle.
Where's another ar? Well, what's so cool about it? What's
the innovation? It's shape, it's maybe better characteristics. On the
air gunside, I think the category is there quite yet
where it's hard to innovate. Maybe in a few years
(35:27):
we'll get there where it'll be like, oh, we're twenty
feet per second more so, all right, well there you go.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Right. I guess that's the thing is every time I
go and poke around on your website, and I'm always
impressed at what's happening in that world. So it's always
fun to get the updates. And you know, I think
our audience there's certainly gunn people. But like you know,
if you've bought a lot of ars or pistols or whatever,
(35:56):
this is a category that there's a lot of places
to go and it's super fun. It's inexpensive to shoot,
you know, the buying babies and pellets and stuff like that.
It's just it's just a whole other area of firearms
and guns that you can enjoy.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, I think that's the primary difference for me, is
similar to fine arms. There's a lot of utility, different
different guns for different uses, right, and so that's that's
a big deal. I'm not saying that every air gun
is purpose built. That's not what I am suggesting. I'm
just telling you that you can use Big Girl to
(36:34):
shoot soda cans, or you can use it to take
care of a pest problem. The Big Boar air gun
primarily is meant for hunting. However, if you've never tried
to destroy a concrete block at fifty yards with a
big Boar air gun, you haven't fully experienced all the
gun fun in your life.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
And that's different. It feels different, right.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Just think about taking a cinder block and shooting it
with an air gun and gets half in half from
one shot.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
How does that happen?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Well? And I think I hold the story before, but
I remember. The wild thing is the first time you
shoot a big boy air gun and someone explains to
you that this is a three fifty seven one hundred
grain bullet or forty five or a decal or whatever,
and they explain it all to you and they say
it's it's going one thousand feet per second and has
(37:26):
this much energy or whatever. But then you shoot it
and it's like nothing happened, like because we're always used
to this blast, you know, when we shoot and it's
just you go and then it hits a like if
you shoot a steel target, it's going whoa, I hit that. Yeah, yeah,
(37:49):
it's got So it's fun under.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Five hundred feet huh.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
I would say probably under under three hundred foot bounds
of energy of the muzzle. There is little recoil on
the air gun. On the big boarder gun. Once we
start getting the five hundred foot pounds, it kicks. There
is a bit of a kick to it, but it's definitely.
It's definitely less loud than any firearm still, well maybe
(38:17):
maybe like a twenty two, Like that's kind of the
correct that you could expect. And the recoil is nothing
in comparison to what you would get from any any
serious firearm or either I would say, you know, maybe
like a yeah, maybe like a twenty two recoil maybe
still maybe a little bit more than that, but definitely
(38:41):
less less loud, not as loud.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
So yeah, there's there's it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I personally still am not tired of it, and after
twenty years, so I always find something new and exciting
to look at and just get wild by myself.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
So yeah, and if you look at just all these
shapes of palettes and it's not just just you know,
boring ground bbs for BB guns, there is certainly a
lot of Oh we didn't talk about that. Slugs have
become a real thing in the air gunn world really,
and your BC with a slug is a lot a lot. Again,
(39:25):
air guns have always been thought like you're shooting a spallad,
which looks a little bit like the weird shape.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
What is that? Right? Why does it look like that?
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Well, that's the best BC you can get at these
thirty five yard and fifty yard distances.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
If you have enough power to crush.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
A projectile past fifty yards and one hundred yards, anyone
be accurate. You're talking slugs, and so as technology expanded,
you have there is just a huge explosion in interest
and slugs and over the past five years, and we
talked about competition, and we talk about Bantrust company petitions
(40:00):
of one hundred yards. They are competing with pallets, traditional
shape palets. Reason for it, one of the reasons lately
is if they were competing with slugs, that would become
a lot less interesting because a lot of people will
be shooting bullseyes at one hundred yards with slugs and then's.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Just act yeah, it's that accurate.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah, they're I mean one of the I don't know
if your listeners know, but ten meter guns are becoming
so good and peals come so good that some of
these competitions ten meter they're have a very hard time
judging them and actually scoring them because they're getting into
one tenth and one hundreds of a score.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Well similar on hole.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
I mean, it's just everything that's going through the same hole.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
You just think about it ten meters.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
So they as a sport, it's an issue, and they're
talking about how do we make it more difficult with
this equipment for competitors and athletes, and the only logical explanation, well,
just need to expend it and make it fifteen yards
instead of instead of ten meters, make it twelve meters
or fourteen meters is whatever where you want to do. Well,
that's not easy, not possible because all these all these
(41:05):
arenas have been built around the whole world in the
past forty to fifty years. They accommodate ten meters, that's all.
So it's it's a lot, it's it's just basically a
capital expenditure for the whole, for the whole, for the
whole industry. And similarly, how many how many firearm ranges
do you know that have more than one hundred yards.
(41:26):
I'm not saying they don't exist, but if you wanted
to make one hundred ban trask competition more interesting with
the slugs, you would basically need to be looking for
more places that can accommodate two hundred yards and or more.
It's similar for big bore air guns. You are and
you have big boar guns that will shoot up to
(41:48):
one hundred yards with this power. So we're if you
were to do a competition, where would you where would
you have it? So it's technology catching up to the passing.
The real world's limitations are too good just to we
need Yeah, we need Elon Musk's brain on this, figure
this out and come up with a solution.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Well, thanks for being all of us. It's always fun
to talk air guns and all the all the cool
things you're doing. And I think you're right. It seems like,
I mean, this is an area that is not stagnant.
I mean it's just always new products and new innovations.
And yeah, I mean I was you know, I said
three thousand psi. You said, no, that's old school forty
five PSI. So always new stuff happening. Thanks for being
(42:33):
all of us. How can people go learn more about
what you guys are doing?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Well, obviously pyramid air dot com air as an adventures
in a recreation or just search for Pyramid air and
sure we'll come up. We obviously have a very well
populated webside, great selection, but more importantly, we have people
who understand this and they will help you make the
right choice if you're not sure, because selection is mind boggling.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
So if you want to talk to somebody, we're here
to help perfect.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Do you guys have experts you can ask questions. Val Gamer,
thanks for being awing us. We will see everybody next time.
On gun cognition,
Those are not just little stingers. They are compact, but
they deliver some power, certainly enough to hunt small game.
But in the US they're probably just looked at us like,
oh my god, what is this thing?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah, I mean, can you imagine being a bad guy
and you get Crossbode. I'm Ryan Gresham and this this
is Guntognation. Guntognation is brought to you by Black Hills Ammunition,
(00:42):
n r A ARC, Mac Range Ready Eotech and Kimber
Welcome into Guntognation. On gun Dognation talk about guns, but
we really talk about all sorts of things. I always
say we're very broad in what we cover and one
of the areas that's a fun subject matter. And I
(01:04):
always love talking to this guy, Val Gamerman from Pyramid
or as a lot of us know it, Pyramid Air.
You guys are the ear gun experts, the airgun people,
and air guns is this crazy category of technology and
fun and I always have fun when we talk and
when I'm looking at your website. But Val, welcome in, man.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Oh, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And it's always good to talk to you and meet
you virtually like this where impersonally bump into each other
at an event somewhere.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So, I mean everybody knows. I think a lot of
people know Pyramid Air because it's been around for a
long time. I know, you guys rebranded to just Pey
Pyramid you, I mean, what was the story there.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, so we've always been known as Pyramid Air Pyramid
Air Guns the website, and then we did make a
decision a while ago to expand into outdoors and and
did not want to change the website, and so we
had to come up with a creative way of explaining
why air in the name of the company and the domain.
So we came up with Adventures and Recreation back in
(02:11):
twenty three or late twenty two. No AI was used
at that time to come.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Up with that.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
We didn't have the benefit of cheating with air.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
We did not have the gun for the AI, so
it's all human ideation. So that was great, and we
started expanding into archer and so on and so forth.
But yeah, our DNA, you're right, and our core, our
core strength and core expertise are and air guns.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Which are a cool category. That's that's effect.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Well, if any I'll agree with you, I mean, yeah,
I mean, if anybody's been listening to our show and
our content for a while. They've probably heard you and
I talk and doing some things with air guns. But
when we say air guns, probably a lot of people
off the bat think of maybe guns, pellet guns. The
old you know, I've had to pump it three times
(03:00):
or twelve times or whatever. But I mean a lot
has changed over the years and recently. If you go
on to like I have your website pulled up here
because it's really fun to look at the stuff you
see here is not what anyone's probably thinking of to say.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Oh yeah, I would say, so funny you should mention
three pump. I think people growing up in seventies would
remember three pump rule, don't pump it more than three times,
because then really IRCs imagine parents letting their kids play
with baby guns.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
And shoot each other at BBS today. That's unimaginable, right right,
I'm not a crazy world with it.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
But yeah, the air guns are of.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
The day you were how long gone.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
And while the multipumper still exists and the Daisy Red
Riders still exist probably will exist as long as Christmas
Story exists in airs every year and days eight eighty
and cross Monzone and sixty all of these air guns
still exists, but the power plans, the power of air guns,
the functionality, it's all just light years ahead of where
(04:08):
it was even fifteen years ago, which.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Which enables people do more with them. Right, So, I
mean people are competing with air guns, they're hunting with
air guns. Maybe let's just talk about that, talk about
the competition side and the types of competitions that exist
out there and the type of shots people are making.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Sure, if you've not followed air gun competition in the past,
you've probably all you've heard in the past is ten
meter and that's an Olympic sport and it's extremely.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Boring to watch.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
If you ever been to any Olympic event or state
event or a local event, it's very quiet. You're not
allowed to cheer because it distracts the competitors. I was
literally told to stop cheering from my guy ten years
ago in Color Olympics.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Gig down, sir, it's it's our guy, like I.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Want him to win. Like, no, those like that.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So I'm not putting down ten terre competitions are great
and a good way to measure your success and ability
to concentrate. But the BB guns and pelagons of the
past and seventies, you're mostly shooting soda cans a little
with pass control, really tiny kind of stuff, nothing really powerful.
In fact, there are some local restrictions on use of
(05:26):
pelagons for hunting specifically because you would only hurt the
animal back then and don't really achieve anything. It will
be inhumane and cruel. And so if we run into
some of these restrictions now and they're like, well that
doesn't apply anymore, like why would you have this restriction?
But yeah, So if you want to hear scientific term
player guns, it's called non powdered guns, and that's actually
(05:48):
thatched definition in the in the US non at the
federal level, which differentiates air guns from farms by virtue
of firearms powered by chemical react fire is a chemical reaction,
whereas air guns are not powered by chemical reaction because
either compressed air or compressed CO two are expending and
pushing the projectile out of the out of the air gun.
(06:11):
So coming back to competition, yeah, the airguns have become
become a lot more powerful and I would say probably
the most the most interesting event that has taken the
air guns world by surprise over the past eight nine
years is Benress one hundred yards? So Benress has existed
(06:34):
there twenty five yards, fifty yards, but one hundred yards.
People were shooting bullseyes with regular pellets or maybe I
shouldn't say regular, but heavy air pellets in twenty five
and thirty calver So you're you're not talking. Yeah, you
can't really shoot. I've seen people compete with long soe
and seven one hundred yards. It's extremely difficult. As you
(06:58):
can imagine, the is there light. So people tend to
the good words heavier and larger calibers just to give
some stability and enjoy a better ballistic efficient down range.
And yeah, that one is definitely a little bit fonner
to watch because there are a few events around the country,
(07:22):
less so around the world because of you know, general
aversion and dislike for guns in general outside of the US.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
But there are some thirty col pellet. How heavy is that?
What kind of green weight?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh, it's a I would say it's anywhere from forty
four to se many grain, so the.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Grain of a thirty year on half pellet. Now I
guess these are Are we talking about PC's PCP zero guns.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, PCP is one is the power plant that gets
you the most the most power you can expect from
an air or a pela gun, I should say specifically,
and you're getting in thirty caliber. There is production in
their gowns that get you a hondred foot towns of
(08:13):
muzzle energy and some go up there. And there are
definitely big bore aer guns, which I think you and
I talked about in the past a few times. And
the power there is not just mind boggling, but it's
certainly above with a handgun, a firearm hanggun can deliver.
(08:34):
So you're talking to hot foot downs, so the muzzle
is not of of the question. And when you look
at how the country is reacting in some of the
states are reacting. In the past five years, we went
from no states maybe six years no states along hunting
with their guns are hunting big game with their counts,
to now over twenty five states allowing it. Now there
(08:57):
is no dedicated season that any state has provided to
big bore airgun hunting, but most of the time, depending
on the state and what the DNR believes is the
right season or time, it could be part of the
primitive weapons or archery or part of the firems depending
(09:20):
on really what the state beliefs is the right time
and place, but it.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Is an opportunity for other types of hunting. And just
you know, as I poke around on the website, I
mean right off the bat, you click on new air guns,
you might see something that's a replica BB gun, that's
a Glock Gin three Block nineteen eleven that you could
(09:46):
I'm sorry night glock nineteen you can go train with
that costs sixty or seventy dollars or something like that.
And then you have I'm looking at this Walther LG
five hundred I tech that is somewhere in the ne
neighborhood of forty seven hundred and fifty five one hundred
dollars that is extremely accurate and really set up for
(10:08):
the ultimate and competition. So there's just a crazy range
of possibilities there.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
So this is one thing that fascinates me by air
guns and always has is just the extent of applications
in utility. So as you mentioned, here's your replica beauty guns.
You just trained with it in your basement without waking
up the whole house. When that goes off, it's pretty quiet,
but yet you do still get to feel in your
(10:34):
hand of recoil in an air gun role, it's called blowback.
That's functionality if you want to feel a recoil. It's
not as strong as an animimerror, but it's not too
far off, I would say. So it does make you
teach you you to control the gun in your hand.
And that's extremely cheap affordable by I don't know you're expecting.
(11:00):
Even though the prices of firearms MO have have not
sky quite skyrocketed, Uh, they're not cheap either.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
And with BB's you're.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Shooting a fraction of a penny per shot, right, Yeah,
a little bit on the C or two cartridge. So
maybe if you factor everything in, you're spending you know, five.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Cents per shot or two cents per shod.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That's a whole I better than there's twenty five cents
for nine. Yeah, most of us can't go shooting nine
in our basement or in our backyard.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, you certainly. I can't.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I have two ecres, but I can't. I would be
in trouble the sheriff if I go start practicing my
firearms in my backyard. So I certainly can do that, uh,
pretty pretty easily with air guns. So you have this
bb gun, which is a replica that allows it to
train and actually enjoy enjoy shooting a gun as your known.
(11:55):
And then you have, you know, up from up there,
you have maybe some compers to shoot soda cans, you
have pass control, the traditional brake barrels. There are some
actually interesting innovation coming out, and then the area we
can talk about it later this year. And that's what
probably a lot of your viewers and listeners know about
as a break real gown. You just you know, why
(12:16):
is it called braik barrel. Nobody's breaking the barrel, but
you tip on it and it teps like you're breaking
the barrel, right, softer go the name.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And bark barrels have a lot of power.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Too, they do, so that's definitely you know, those are
you're talking to eighteen foot pounds probably in twenty two
caliber and it's certainly more than enough for a squirrel
up to thirty five yards or.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Something like that.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And then up from there you're talking twenty five and PCP,
and there are some brain barrels in twenty five that's
actually also a fact. And then you have twenty five, thirty,
thirty five, forty five, fifty caliber air guns. That and
that's where you get into these big ware air guns.
They are absolutely lethal and and uh incredible. To actually
(13:06):
have experience of shooting air gun like that is quite interesting.
Everybody who shot is like, oh, that's not at all
what I expected.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, the other factor is, like you kind of said earlier,
air guns are not firearms. They're not regulated day, So
I mean you can you can send that to you
ship it to people's home directly, right, and also.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Of New Jersey, this is the most favored state.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Of Okay, you have full auto air guns.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Right, you do have a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
You don't need to have a tax stamp to uh
to own a lot of b begun. So that will
share directly to your door and fells your incredible fun.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
You can.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
You probably can find clips of it on it on
the internet. People are just having a blaste with it.
And literally I think that when you brought up that
five thousand dollars Walter ten meter gun, that's a ten
meter gown. Yeah, this is this is Olympic level competition.
In national competitions. There is a lot more following for
(14:20):
those types of air gowns in Europe than it is
in the In the United States. My favorite comment from
twenty from Olympics of twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Twenty four twenty, I want.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
To say where our team US team didn't perform very
well at the Olympics, and somewhere on air fifteen dot com,
I think somebody said, like, I can't even believe our
guys can shoot B B guns, and I'm like, these.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Are not BB guns.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
These are five thousand dollars, you know, creations that are
very complex in comparison to firearms. And actually that's interesting,
right if you know your listeners know there's a lot
more parts in any air gun and a lot more
complexity in an air gun than any firearm. Really, well,
(15:03):
my explanation, I'm not an engineer, but my common sense
explanation is just because it's about how the energy is
transferred and what makes the projectile fly. In case of firearms,
the the powder and the chemical reaction to fire is
what the projectile fly. The gun's job, the farmer's job
is simple, just keep the barrel straight and make sure
(15:26):
that the rest of it happens. Kind of because the
energy was self contained in the casing and the projected
sale versus with an air gun, no matter what the
airgun is. You need to transfer that power, that compressed
the AIRCO two from wherever that source of that power
is all the way to behind the pellette or BB
(15:48):
to get it pushed out of the barrels. So that
transfer that energy with the most in the most efficient
way is where all the complexity exists. So I think
about you need to pump that air. Let's take that
the pumper from somebody's You pump it and you just
store it somewhere and if there's three pumps, right, and
then you pull the trigger and that compressed air is
(16:10):
released and something is going through the gun and transferring
and pushing and eventually the rest of the breach and
then they projectile actually leads the barrel. So yeah, it's
a lot more parts if you look at the manufacturing
side and build material.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Oh what's going on here? Especially in PCP guns. I'm
not kidding.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
There are some PCP guns that have one hundred and
sixty O rings in them. Just think about that. Yeah,
I'm not kidding. So I don't think you have any
orange of the fire. I can think of maybe the
few places, yeah, like one it's.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
A point though, Yeah, I mean because of a regular
like metallic cartridge. I mean the gunpowder and the primer
and all that is making that bullet come out. Whereas
you put the projectile, the bullet into a proba of
gun BB gun whatever. It's just that, and then you
have to store the air, have to whatever. That's a
good point. Now, you guys are doing a bunch of
(17:04):
new things, a new lot of new products, and I
know you have some favorites. After the break, let's talk
about what's new and what's the thing that everybody's so
excited about. The new CDs nine Classic from Kimber offers
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(17:27):
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(17:48):
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(18:10):
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Black Hills Ammunition's website. You know, we can all improve
our shooting, and we have range Ready Studios where we
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(18:32):
I say gooder. Range Ready Studios dot com. We have
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and just better at the range. So go check it
out range Ready Studios dot com. All right, welcome back
to guntog Nation, talking with Val Gamerman from Pyramid or
(18:53):
Pyramid Air as people still probably think of you guys though.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Ventures and Recreation.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
In recreation Pyramid with two wy's if you're looking for
this and now you guys the adventures and recreation kind
of hit that keep expanding what you're doing on your
website and the products you offer. I look, I tend
to look at like the air guns, and then I
(19:20):
look at all the other stuff, and I look at
stuff that probably some people will say that's weird. I mean,
you do stuff in archery, you do crossbows, and you've
got some real modern products that probably a lot of
people haven't seen.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, I think I was surprised. One of the ones
that actually was very interesting to see was steamboat, and
they call it air six because there's six rounds, six
arrows that go into the magazine. So there's a magazine
on the crossbow. And while that one particularly is not
(19:57):
semi automatic, and it does require for you to pull
the to pull the string back for every shot, it
looks intimidating as heck.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And from what I know, in Europe, they.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Are actually purchased and acquired for self defense because people
in Europe are not living in free countries for most apart,
and they cannot on a firearm easily. So those are
not just little stingers. They are compact, but they deliver
some power, certainly enough to hunt small game. But in
(20:32):
the US they're probably just looked at as like, oh
my god.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
What is this thing?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, I mean, can you imagine being a bad guy
and you get crossbowed.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
No, I mean that's why I mean on the archery side,
I didn't really full understand archer until some time ago,
because the power of a vertical bow is nothing in
comparison to a power to get from a firearm, and
yet the damage that can do on the hunting side
is just colossal. And I didn't connect the mentally myself
until you know, if you think about this elongated projectile
(21:04):
that is just like twenty inches of thirty just long,
and that yeah, I can do a lot of damage.
So that steamboat crossbow, those arrows are probably you know,
that long. They're not very long, but it's certainly a
lot longer than a bullet.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I'm even looking at the steamboat, the ar six stinger compact.
It's repeating crossbow. This just gets to be like people
having the thought of this, and you do have these
arrows or a bolt, so depending on people how people
look at it, You've got like the target ones, but
there are hunting ones that have broadheads on them. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So that's the interesting part that I don't know of
a real hunting scenario where you get a follow up
shot where it will wait for you to cock it again.
But it's certainly better than having to re put the
arrow onto the slide and then publably like so it's
(22:02):
definitely better suited for a follow up shot at quick
follow up shot in a few seconds. But it's mind boggling.
So there is a lot of innovation in archery as well,
and not just in power of crossbows. I do think
they're having difficulty pushing the boundaries of crossbows beyond four
(22:22):
hundred and fifty feet per second, even though there's a
few that claim five hundred three per second. I don't
know with what light arrows this is being achieved. Maybe
not the brild hads and the air guns we're trying
and are trying to catch up. There are arrow launching airguns.
I don't think you and I ever talked about it. Yeah, yeah,
(22:45):
so there are airguns that can launch arrows, and they
certainly compete with cropless on the power are those that
can launch it well above five hundred feet per second
and I'm going to six hundred fet per second with
a one hundred and thirty grain arrow or bolt, I
should say, with a broad head on it. That's just
(23:05):
devastating power. That is beyond it's a huge hole.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Let's put it this.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Way, and with that kind of energy. Again, the only
the only difference between that and the some firearm is
that the effective distance and lethal distance is a lot. Sure,
obviously it's a huge drop.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Well, it's one of the reasons, like arrows are so effective.
And if people listening to this or more on the
gun side of things, we'll talk about ballistic coefficient and
the penetration and how it flies through the air, and
what we're really talking about with the BC of a
bullet is how long the bullet is, how streamlined that
bullet is. Well, I mean, if we're talking about on
(23:49):
maybe even a short crossbow at twelve inch to even
a twenty or thirty inch arrow or bolt or whatever
like that, like you talk about the penetration that you
can get and what that does. It's pretty interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I was fascinated when it just connected with me years
ago because I could never understand how is this even
ethical to hunt for the bow? Right like in million ages, like, yeah,
there's no other equipment than that's all they had. But
I was I was thinking, like my god, this this
bow that launches an arrow that flies you know, two
(24:29):
hundred and fifty feet per second. I mean, how has
this even how does it even feel right aside from
you know, like that's the primal way of hunting, and
it connected with me because the devastation of these arrows
cause with broad hats is just mind boggling.
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six winter sectionals are fast approaching. NRA ARC. What else
are people excited about the products that you guys have
on your website? Are there a few that are standing
out lately that people seem to be excited about?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Yeah? I think so, so this year. I would say
there's a lot of there is.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
It's like any fashion that people enjoy their fashions, right,
So in firearms and this is like, hey, meter was hot?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Was it two years ago? Was there still hot? I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Uh. And uh for air guns, I would say for
the past two years, compact and powerful air guns have
become some kind of a trend.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
So there's a lot of a lot of interest.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
In compact and you have powerful air guns that are
more than enough to do pass control. They're very tactically looking.
Uh and uh actually just cool. It's cool to look at,
cool to own.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
And there's a lot of innovation. I think the one
that stands out if you look at if you think
about bray barrels and traditional brain barrels. I've always traditionally
been powered by coiled spring right there, the spring inside.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
The air gun. And let me break that. They're we
pushed this spring down.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
It.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Comes its compressed right then you pull the trigger. The
coiled spring just.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
And pushes the air and then that pushes the palette. Well.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
In the late nineteen nineties a guy invented using gas springs,
and those gas business became very popular in twoy ten
and gas piston is replaced direct replacement of coiled springs.
And you're sure audience and have maybe heard or seeing
(28:37):
that where it looks and feels more like a strut
in your cartront or improved the hood and maybe not
the trun put the hood and then there is like
a strut that comes up and holds it up in
the air. So similar concept, of course, very different. There's
some hundred psi pressures, I get distant, and then then
(28:58):
the repeater barrel aerguns were introduced, probably about twenty.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Twelve or so reintroduced.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
So there's a real magazine, a rotary magazine on some
sword that is living near the breach. And then you
don't need to like humble and put the pellette inside
the breach of the brake barrel. You just break a
barrel and it cycles the magazine and loads the pellet
into the breach. This year there's interesting innovation where I
(29:26):
don't know around you've owned brake barrel's how easy is
it for you to to brump it break it away? Well?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
I have like my trick is you slap the top
of the barrel to break it open, right, because it's
if it's probably if it's made well, it's a little tighter, right.
It takes a little bit of muscle to it right,
and then you have I mean I could do it,
but I think there's a little technique to it where
you have to make sure you use the leverage we
drop grab at the very top of the barrel to
(29:53):
cock it and do that. But it also for all shooters.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah, so there is there is a technique to it.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
You put a butt stock of the you on your
lap and then you're correcting to grab it at the
very end of the barrel, at the very mazzle or
as far as it can give yourself mechanical advantage and
make it easier for you. But anyway, the most powerful
ones are still hard to cock. I mean the cocking
effort can go thirty five thirty five pounds, forty pounds,
(30:21):
forty five pounds. So my wife couldn't do it, My
fourteen year old couldn't do it. It was an interesting product.
It was launched this year, just coming to the market
now where you can adjust the power that it takes
to cock your to cock your gun, and so if
you want to enjoy your medium power and medium f
(30:43):
cocking effort. You can just use it as this, but
if you want to make it more powerful and maybe
stretch it out and give it more oomph, you can
easily do that. Just pump it a little bit the
pump that comes with it, or if you want to
make it easier for your ten year old to cock
it under superb and of course you can release the pressure.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Inside of this.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
And so I'm excited about that because if you ever
bought an air gun in a store and brought it home,
you you can do what you need to do, either
take care of a chipmunk issue or a squirrel. But
if you want to shoot soda cans with your kid,
you will be cocking that pray barrel for him or
(31:24):
her all the time. Yourself you will be doing it.
The kid won't be able to ten year old won't
be able to do it. So that omni store may
rifle will be very interesting to see how how audience
takes to it and how how the market reacts to it.
I think it'll be It'll be cool and interesting. So
lots of more powerful big warrior guns coming to the market.
(31:46):
I'm always curious, are they going to tap out it
one thousand foot pounds of muzzle energy or there is more.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
I'm not I'm not. I don't.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I'm not enough of an engineer to know what's possible
with compressed air as opposed to burning powder.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
So yeah, yeah, a lot of two thousand ps i.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Tank.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, the days of three thousand psi ryan are long gone.
A lot of guns are using forty five hundred g
SI and that's so Yeah. For comparison, your your your
car tire is about thirty thirty two, right, so it's
not just one thousand, yes, I five hundreds I So yeah,
it's a hundred, one hundred, twenty times.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
More than your car tire. Can you imagine? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:37):
You have you have like one favorite right now that
you just are loving on what you guys are doing.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Uh, I like, uh, yeah, that's a good question. I
Anything I say will be held against me.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
I'll just tell you that right now.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I want to get you in trouble. So you know,
because you guys, I know that pyramids all of the products,
so that and all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
But yeah, I think I will stay away from naming
specific products that are my favorite because I know for
a fact the minute I say something, I will either
get a phone call or a text message.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
And it will be friendly, but it will be.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
For good.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
I love friends.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
They're all you're all beautiful.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah there, we love you all. We love you all. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
So I think that there is definitely just pockets of
innovation going on. I think that uh, the the there
are multiple companies that are innovating. That's what makes it
really cool and exciting for me.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
I think.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Adding repeaters into the multi pumping world was interesting, so
not Brave Burrols, but actually multipompers they need to pump
and then results in magazine. I think that air Ventory
started it, uh and Gamma picked up Cross and picked
of this year and that's interesting. We didn't talk about that,
but there is some innovation in there as well. I
(34:06):
think Brave Burrel innovations that started off with repeaters from
Gamma in point five that continue to dominate this space
in my opinion and doing a really good job in
that respect.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
I think that adjustable gas.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Pistems from air Ventory this year where the omni storm
is going to be really interesting. Compact PCP Omeras did
a very good job with notos. I think Erritory has
some interesting models launching this year. Crossman is probably launching
something interesting in twenty twenty six or early twenty twenty
(34:43):
six based on what I've seen. So there is a
lot of There is a lot of innovation and people
trying to I don't even know if I can say
trying very hard, because there's so much opportunity with air guns,
which I think is a little bit loss on firearms.
How do you innovate a firearm?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Tell me one great innovation in the farms industry.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
And I love firearms. Out on a lot of firearms,
but it's hard to get my attention when somebody announces
a new farm product. I look at it the those
such as another handgun, This is another bold action rifle.
Where's another ar? Well, what's so cool about it? What's
the innovation? It's shape, it's maybe better characteristics. On the
air gunside, I think the category is there quite yet
where it's hard to innovate. Maybe in a few years
(35:27):
we'll get there where it'll be like, oh, we're twenty
feet per second more so, all right, well there you go.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Right. I guess that's the thing is every time I
go and poke around on your website, and I'm always
impressed at what's happening in that world. So it's always
fun to get the updates. And you know, I think
our audience there's certainly gunn people. But like you know,
if you've bought a lot of ars or pistols or whatever,
(35:56):
this is a category that there's a lot of places
to go and it's super fun. It's inexpensive to shoot,
you know, the buying babies and pellets and stuff like that.
It's just it's just a whole other area of firearms
and guns that you can enjoy.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, I think that's the primary difference for me, is
similar to fine arms. There's a lot of utility, different
different guns for different uses, right, and so that's that's
a big deal. I'm not saying that every air gun
is purpose built. That's not what I am suggesting. I'm
just telling you that you can use Big Girl to
(36:34):
shoot soda cans, or you can use it to take
care of a pest problem. The Big Boar air gun
primarily is meant for hunting. However, if you've never tried
to destroy a concrete block at fifty yards with a
big Boar air gun, you haven't fully experienced all the
gun fun in your life.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
And that's different. It feels different, right.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Just think about taking a cinder block and shooting it
with an air gun and gets half in half from
one shot.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
How does that happen?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Well? And I think I hold the story before, but
I remember. The wild thing is the first time you
shoot a big boy air gun and someone explains to
you that this is a three fifty seven one hundred
grain bullet or forty five or a decal or whatever,
and they explain it all to you and they say
it's it's going one thousand feet per second and has
(37:26):
this much energy or whatever. But then you shoot it
and it's like nothing happened, like because we're always used
to this blast, you know, when we shoot and it's
just you go and then it hits a like if
you shoot a steel target, it's going whoa, I hit that. Yeah, yeah,
(37:49):
it's got So it's fun under.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Five hundred feet huh.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
I would say probably under under three hundred foot bounds
of energy of the muzzle. There is little recoil on
the air gun. On the big boarder gun. Once we
start getting the five hundred foot pounds, it kicks. There
is a bit of a kick to it, but it's definitely.
It's definitely less loud than any firearm still, well maybe
(38:17):
maybe like a twenty two, Like that's kind of the
correct that you could expect. And the recoil is nothing
in comparison to what you would get from any any
serious firearm or either I would say, you know, maybe
like a yeah, maybe like a twenty two recoil maybe
still maybe a little bit more than that, but definitely
(38:41):
less less loud, not as loud.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
So yeah, there's there's it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I personally still am not tired of it, and after
twenty years, so I always find something new and exciting
to look at and just get wild by myself.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
So yeah, and if you look at just all these
shapes of palettes and it's not just just you know,
boring ground bbs for BB guns, there is certainly a
lot of Oh we didn't talk about that. Slugs have
become a real thing in the air gunn world really,
and your BC with a slug is a lot a lot. Again,
(39:25):
air guns have always been thought like you're shooting a spallad,
which looks a little bit like the weird shape.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
What is that? Right? Why does it look like that?
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Well, that's the best BC you can get at these
thirty five yard and fifty yard distances.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
If you have enough power to crush.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
A projectile past fifty yards and one hundred yards, anyone
be accurate. You're talking slugs, and so as technology expanded,
you have there is just a huge explosion in interest
and slugs and over the past five years, and we
talked about competition, and we talk about Bantrust company petitions
(40:00):
of one hundred yards. They are competing with pallets, traditional
shape palets. Reason for it, one of the reasons lately
is if they were competing with slugs, that would become
a lot less interesting because a lot of people will
be shooting bullseyes at one hundred yards with slugs and then's.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Just act yeah, it's that accurate.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah, they're I mean one of the I don't know
if your listeners know, but ten meter guns are becoming
so good and peals come so good that some of
these competitions ten meter they're have a very hard time
judging them and actually scoring them because they're getting into
one tenth and one hundreds of a score.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Well similar on hole.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
I mean, it's just everything that's going through the same hole.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
You just think about it ten meters.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
So they as a sport, it's an issue, and they're
talking about how do we make it more difficult with
this equipment for competitors and athletes, and the only logical explanation, well,
just need to expend it and make it fifteen yards
instead of instead of ten meters, make it twelve meters
or fourteen meters is whatever where you want to do. Well,
that's not easy, not possible because all these all these
(41:05):
arenas have been built around the whole world in the
past forty to fifty years. They accommodate ten meters, that's all.
So it's it's a lot, it's it's just basically a
capital expenditure for the whole, for the whole, for the
whole industry. And similarly, how many how many firearm ranges
do you know that have more than one hundred yards.
(41:26):
I'm not saying they don't exist, but if you wanted
to make one hundred ban trask competition more interesting with
the slugs, you would basically need to be looking for
more places that can accommodate two hundred yards and or more.
It's similar for big bore air guns. You are and
you have big boar guns that will shoot up to
(41:48):
one hundred yards with this power. So we're if you
were to do a competition, where would you where would
you have it? So it's technology catching up to the passing.
The real world's limitations are too good just to we
need Yeah, we need Elon Musk's brain on this, figure
this out and come up with a solution.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Well, thanks for being all of us. It's always fun
to talk air guns and all the all the cool
things you're doing. And I think you're right. It seems like,
I mean, this is an area that is not stagnant.
I mean it's just always new products and new innovations.
And yeah, I mean I was you know, I said
three thousand psi. You said, no, that's old school forty
five PSI. So always new stuff happening. Thanks for being
(42:33):
all of us. How can people go learn more about
what you guys are doing?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Well, obviously pyramid air dot com air as an adventures
in a recreation or just search for Pyramid air and
sure we'll come up. We obviously have a very well
populated webside, great selection, but more importantly, we have people
who understand this and they will help you make the
right choice if you're not sure, because selection is mind boggling.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
So if you want to talk to somebody, we're here
to help perfect.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Do you guys have experts you can ask questions. Val Gamer,
thanks for being awing us. We will see everybody next time.
On gun cognition,
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