Did Alec Baldwin Fire That Gun?; More Lawsuits Challenging State Gun Restrictions; Dangers Of Appendix Carry: Gun Talk Radio | 05.26.24 Hour

In This Hour: --  Mike McCoy at the Mountain States Legal Foundation unpacks the lawsuit challenging gun restrictions in New Mexico. --  Did Alec Baldwin actually fire that gun on the set? --  Is appendix carry safe?  Why does it make people nervous? Tom Gresham's Gun Talk 05.26.24  Hour 2

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The Ruger Light RAG Security three eightyis easy to shoot and easy to wreck,
small enough to carry concealed or ina purse, big enough to absorb
recoil. Learn more at Ruger dotcom. Hey, welcome back, Tom
Gresham. Here it's gun talk.Glad you could be with us. You
know, I talk about this alot that this battle to preserve, protect,

(00:25):
expand, if you will, theSecond Amendment and its rights is ongoing,
in constant and never ending. AndI've been at it for fifty plus
years. It seems to just goon and on. And there are those
who definitely do not like the conceptof the Second Amendment. They don't like
guns. But actually it's not somuch they don't like guns. I think

(00:46):
they just don't like gun owners morethan anything else. And that seems to
pervade a lot of what they do, and it comes out in their talk.
We're seeing a new wave of antisecondAmendment activism. And it's not in
Congress, although that's always there.We're seeing it in the States and a

(01:08):
lot of this is post Bruin reaction, reaction to the New York State Rifle
and Pistol Association be Bruin decision bythe Supreme Court. And what you've got
in a lot of states that aresaying, we're just going to pass all
the gun control laws, we wantgun bans even and dare you to do

(01:30):
anything about it? Dare you totake us to court? And frankly,
the strategy for a lot of themis to delay, delay, delay,
in hopes that the makeup of theSupreme Court changes before they can get a
case there. As a result ofthat, we've had groups that are attacking
this all over the place, andsome you know and some of you don't

(01:52):
know. And I think maybe inthat latter category is the one we're going
to talk about right now. We'rejoined right now by Mike McCoy. He
is the director of the Center toKeep and Bear Arms Out, the Mountain
State Legal Foundation. Mike, thanksfor joining us, your first time here.
It is Yeah, thank you forhaving me. Tom appreciate it.

(02:12):
Okay, we got to start offwith, Okay, what is Mountain State's
Legal Foundation and what is the Centerto Keep in their Arms? So Mountain
States Legal Foundation was founded over fiftyyears ago actually trying to help ranchers and
farmers in the West push back againstsome ridiculous regulations that were coming down that
we're limiting their abilities to carry ontheir livelihoods. And since then it's expanded.

(02:38):
It's a not for profit organization thathas expanded into other realms including First
Amendment work, Equal Protection work,and Second Amendment work as well. And
so we seek to represent people andentities that don't have the ability to represent
themselves, largely because of financial issues, and we do it pro bono.

(02:58):
We pick up their cases and wepushed back at you know, in regards
at the state and federal level,when you think the government is gone too
far and has violated the Constitution insome respect in regards to these people's rights,
their ability to make a livelihood orin the case of what I do,
their ability to keep in beare arms, which is a right protected by

(03:19):
the Second Amendment. As you knowexactly now your background JAG officer of the
Air Force, US Assistant Attorney General, Deputy District Attorney, Lieutenant colonel,
colonel I guess in the California AirNational Guard. You've been served in the
country for a long time. Ihave. I've I've loved it. I've
been in one respect to another publicservant since I left law school, and

(03:43):
even before that, I wanted toenlisted in the army before law school,
but I have had the blessing ofbeing able to work in some amazing jobs
in the military. I got togo to Iraq for a year and work
on Assam Mu Saint trials, whichwas a super interesting experience. If he
had to be over there for ayear, couldn't have been there doing a
more interesting job than that. Iworked as a prosecutor in the US Attorney's

(04:04):
Office, both in Illinois as wellas California, and then I've been a
deputy DA up until about a monthand a half ago, and so this
is a huge jump. I'm movingfrom criminal law, where I've spent the
vast majority of my career into civillaw. But one of the things that's
kind of always been an impetus forme and what I've done is is obviously
service, but also standing up forthe constitution, which is a prosecutor,

(04:28):
you need to do that as well. Right, you need to make sure
that you're bringing cases that you cansupport and that you can meet your high
burden so that you're not convicting peoplewho are not in fact guilty the crimes
you've charged. Them with in thiscase, although I'm transitioning from criminal to
civil law, it's not that bigof a jump because I'm just continuing to
defend and protect the Constitution, justin a different way. And in my

(04:55):
snarkyess, I would say, well, I wish they were more like you,
because I don't see that sometimes,Woul it comes to DA's out there.
But let's do this. Let's fastforward to what you guys are doing
in New Mexico. What has happenedthere that has sparked your involvement in the
state of New Mexico. Yeah,So back in March, the state legislature
there passed a waiting period of law, and it's very similar to one that

(05:19):
was passed year before in Colorado,which we've sued. We sued the state
of Colorado over that law as well. That was a three day waiting period.
Now we have sued the state ofNew Mexico over their new law,
which is a seven day waiting periodthat just went into effect on May fifteenth.
And what that law requires is thatonce a person or with person goes

(05:41):
in to purchase a firearm, theyclear their background check, they pay their
money for the for the firearm,they're good to go, right under any
normal circumstances. Nope, the gunstore has to hold on to the gun
for another seven days at a minimum. And so this is for what purpose?
Right there? These are not peoplewho are failing their background check.

(06:02):
These are people who are not beingflagged for some reason. Nope. They
are law abiding citizens who under anyother circumstance, in any other jurisdiction,
would be able to walk out ofthat gun store with their firearm. But
in New Mexico, under this newlaw, which has been in effect now
for two weeks, they can't.And so we found two plaintiffs. One

(06:25):
is a former law enforcement officer.Another is a person who lives up in
Farmington, New Mexico, who wentinto a gun store on May fifteenth,
individually attempted to purchase a firearm,clear their background checks, but were denied
the right to take their firearms withhome with them at that time. And
that's a real problem. What thewhat's the basis for the challenge? I

(06:47):
mean, they're saying we can dothis legally, and you're saying, no,
you can't. What is it you'resaying they why can't they do that?
They can't do that? Because asin you reference Bruin and Bruin is
is a tremendous victory for anyone who'sinterested in gun rights because it lays down
some pretty basic things. It's reallya two step test. Does the plain

(07:10):
text of the Second Amendment govern theactivity that's being regulated in any respect or
cover the activity that's being regulated?Right? And in this situation, a
person has a right to keep inbear arms. Well, one of the
first steps before you can keep andbear an arm is you have to obtain
it, right, and so inorder to keep and bear it, you
have to obtain it. So theplain text of the Second Amendment basically covers

(07:31):
the conduct that is being regulated here, which is the conduct of buying a
firearm. And there's no reason ifyou can't take that firearm arm with you
for seven days, what's the purposefor that under the constitution. There's no
indication of the Constitution that that shouldbe restricted in any way. The second

(07:51):
step in Bruin is if the plaintext covers a conduct which arguably does here
not arguably, most certainly it does, and the next question it does.
The next question then, is thegovernment, in order to justify their regulation,
has to point to some historical analogto say, well, this existed,

(08:11):
These types of regulations or these typesof waiting period laws existed in the
colonies or in early America at thetime that the Second Amendment was being drafted
and debated and ratified. And inthis situation, they can't point to a
single waiting period law that was inexistence at the time, and so under
Bruin, they fail that test,or at least that's our position is,

(08:33):
they fail that test, and sowe think this is a strong lawed challenge.
But to your point Tom earlier,the States don't really care about Bruin,
right. They are just it's ashotgun approach where they're trying to limit
gun owners' rights in a million differentways and they want to see which ones
stick. If only they're only successfula third of the time. To them,

(08:54):
that's a victory because they know thatthe Supreme Court can only take so
many cases for review, and alot of the circuit courts, in the
district courts are even openly ignoring Ruinor basically saying we're not going to follow
it, which is unprecedented in jurisprudencein this country. The Supreme Court issues
a precedent. You have to followthat if you're a lower court. But

(09:18):
these district courts, many of themhave openly said we're not going to and
so they realize that we can appealthose decisions, but the Supreme Court can
only take so many cases to swapthem back down on. Let me ask
you, you've touched on something thatI think we've not talked about much here,
but I've been watching, and thatis the open defiance of the Supreme
Court by lower courts basically saying wewill do whatever we want to do.

(09:41):
We know you can't fix all ofthem. It's they're like whack a mole.
Just as you say, unprecedented.I mean, and as someone who
as a lawyer, you believe inthe rule of law. This is the
way things are supposed to work.The inferior courts must do what the Supreme
Court tells them to do. Andif they don't, where does that put

(10:03):
us? That puts us in anawful position. This is a country based
on the rule of law, notmen. I mean, for Blake,
not who who made that initial quote. I think it was Thomas Jefferson.
But it's the law that matters inAmerica, not men. And that's what's
distinguished us throughout our history, right, that's what has saved us throughout our

(10:24):
history, is that we always relyon the rule of law. And in
this situation, there is such arabid desire by those anti gun groups and
anti gun legislators and governors that theydon't care about the rule of law because
they see the ends justifying the meansright they see violating this precedent or quite

(10:46):
frankly, violating the Constitution as beingokay as long as the end the ends
justified. And to going back tothis New Mexico case, we sued Governor
Grisham. I don't know if youremember this, but a year ago when
she was attempting to issue some sortof emergency declaration as to why people couldn't
so the comment she made at thatpoint in time was my oath of office

(11:09):
and the rights under the Constitution arenot absolute, basically are not. She
basically can violate them. That's fine, is what Basically what set if it
means that she's doing something that benefitsthe common good, wells, if she
thinks it's okay, then it mustbe okay, and she can violate your
rights. Basically, what you say, is I think it's worthwhile so I

(11:33):
can do this exactly exactly. Theends justify the means. All right,
Look, I got about a minuteleft here, So where do you go
with this case? Where are we? So right now? We filed up
the lawsuit about a week and ahalf ago. Now we have a hearing
for a preliminary injunction which is setfor next month, and that's our efforts
to try to get the law enjoinedwhile the case proceeds, because, as

(11:56):
I'm sure you know, this caseis oftentimes these cases take years to get
from beginning to end before we havea decision on the merits. So the
goal is to basically enjoin the statefrom enforcing this waiting period law while the
case is moving to the court systemand to the appella system. That's the
next step. We hope to besuccessful in that. Obviously kind of depends
on which you know, you know, what judge we draw and what arguments

(12:20):
the government makes. But we thinkwe're we have firm footing here to get
the injunction. We also think wehave firm footing ultimately to get the law
overturned as being a violative of theSecond Amendment. Well at claud what you're
doing a Mountain States Legal Foundation andof course the Center for Keeping Considered to
Keeping bear Arms. Mike McCoy,thank you for bringing us up to speed

(12:43):
on this. I'm going to inviteyou back here because I think we need
to get you back at some point. It sounds like you guys are doing
exactly the kind of things we needto be talking about. Well, I
appreciate you having me Tom, andthanks for your work too. Absolutely,
you take care. Very interesting stuffthere you go, All right, open
up? Now? What have youbeen shooting? What have you been buying?

(13:03):
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(13:56):
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(15:11):
I just was listening to a commercialthere Dad for a twenty two pistol,
and it made me think we weretalking about Ammo earlier. Stocking up
on Ammo might not be a badidea to lay in a really hefty supply
of twenty two fire Ammo. Idon't know him. But I have a
friend who knows a guy who stockpiled. He bought a million rounds of twenty

(15:37):
two rim Fire, and my buddyasked him. He said, well,
why what's that about? He said, I want to make it so that
my grandchildren never run out of twentytwo AMMO. Well, okay, obviously
this guy had a lot of moneyand can do that, But you know,
I'm just thinking about that. Youcould actually lay in a supply of

(15:58):
I don't pick a number. Tenthousand, twenty thousand rounds to twenty two
AMMO wouldn't necessarily break the bank,and you could do it you're gradually if
you wanted to. But that's nota crazy number. And I know people
say, well, you know,that'll be by trading currency, you know,
in the apocalyptic time. So okay, whatever, I don't disagree with

(16:22):
you. It's an interesting idea,but for me, it more represents just
a whole bunch of fun. Imentioned I was out doing this rim fire
shoot the other day, actually yesterday, and it was great fun. And
twenty two's are crazy accurate, andnow we have all these really nice twenty
twos out there. You know,anything from the ten twenty twos and all

(16:45):
the enhanced versions of them that areout there. Let's see CZ has its
four fifty seven volt action, andof course you can get I mean you
can get really good. Oh,the Ruger Precision rifle, twent t ri
Empire, crazy good. Just allsorts of things out there in great scopes
and such and so just you canshoot for a lot for not a lot

(17:10):
of money. I guess you know, as you think about nitrocellulos and gunpowder,
they don't use a lot of powderin twenty two. So there's that
too. I know people say,well, i'll get into reloading. I'm
talking about the gunpowder. It isthe powder that is the issue, the
nitrocellulo shortage, which is real,which is being written about in a lot

(17:33):
of different venues. It's not justsporting use or defensive use. It's not
just about reloading. It's about militaryarms and are we going to have the
munitions we need? And so thisis not imaginary or some scare tactics or
somebody saying I'll just write people intobuying more shotgun shells. That's not what's

(17:57):
going on here. And I wasnot soliciting this. This was just popping
up as I'm walking around in ourshow and talking to people at gun makers
and animal makers and people who supplygunpowder reloading powder, and all of them
saying the same thing, there's nothingwe can do about this. And they're

(18:19):
all wringing their hands and throwing uptheir hands and going, we have no
control over this whatsoever. We justbuy it at whatever the market price is.
And what we're seeing is upcoming chorages, It's coming our way. Prices
are going to go up significantly.What is significantly ten percent would not be

(18:40):
significant to me. A doubling inprice, yeah, that would be significant.
And I will tell you I don'tthink it's crazy to think that's possible.
Okay, But look, I'm justsharing. I'm not trying to course
or frighten anybody into doing anything.I'm just telling you, Look, knowledge
is power. If you have theknowledge, you have the power. It's

(19:03):
up to you to do what youwant to do. If you say I'm
good, don't need anything, fine, it's fine. If you say I'm
probably short, but I'm still notgonna do anything, Okay, Fine your
decision. It doesn't really affect me, you know, But I feel like
I ought to just tell you whatI'm hearing out there. Okay, so
guess what Alec Baldwin going back tocourt. Yeah, he is charged with

(19:30):
manslaughter in the death of cinematographer.They've already sent the gun wrangler to jail
for eighteen months, send us toeighteen months. Now Baldwin's going to face
his own trial. Of course,he claims that this gun just went off.
How many times have you heard thatthe gun just went off? I

(19:52):
have found almost invariably the guns justgo off. You pulled the trigger,
almost assuredly. He pulled the trigger. Now it's a single action revolver,
had it cocked. It's very possible, maybe even likely, that it has
a very light trigger. He mayhave been unaware that he pulled the trigger.

(20:18):
I could see that happening regardless.Yeah, there's just so many parts
of this where things went wrong.You had a movie set where people were
shooting live ammo in the quote unquoteprop guns the guns that were used as
props. But they weren't prop gunsin the sense of they were non functioning
or just they were altered so theycouldn't fire a projectile. These were actually

(20:42):
real guns that they would go outon the set out beyond the set between
takes, or when they were shutdown and shoot the guns with live ammo.
That's like the most hideous violation ofsafety protocol I can imagine. And
then they had the same guns backthere where the actress could get to them,

(21:02):
and there was live AMMO around.Clearly this gun had live amma.
There were a lot of missteps alongthe way. Whether you think he ought
to be held responsible for that isan interesting question. Somebody hands them a
gun and tells him this gun isunloaded. In movie world, you don't
really expect actors to check guns.In fact, I would offer that you

(21:26):
probably don't want them handling guns anymorethan what you tell them to do.
So when your ad exists a directorin this case hands you a gun and
says this gun is cold, it'sunloaded, you work with that assumption.
Having said that he asked he violatedthe safety rules. I kind of think

(21:47):
they do that all the time inmovies, where they're pointing guns at people
and pull the trigger. Okay,So do you hold him responsible for that
just because we don't like him whenhe was doing what often has done in
movies, or do you say,oh, no, he screwed up and
somebody got killed, so he gothold responsible. All right, where do
you follow on that one? It'skind of an interesting topic. I guess

(22:08):
eight sixty six talk gun I'm talkinggression of this is gun talk. When
we come back, we're gonna takeyour cost. It's gonna be open lines
for you. All right. Now, it's time for you to get involved
here. Eric, We're gonna getto you in just a second. I
want to get that range report,but I'm first going to pick up Carry

(22:30):
out of Springfield, Missouri, lyingby, Hey, Carry, you're on
gun Talk. How can we helpyou? I have a ninety nine Savage
in caliber three hundred Savage that Iinherited from my father, and I just
love this gun, but increasingly I'mhaving a hard time finding ammunition for it.
And I'm wondering if a sense ofcases are so similar in size,

(22:56):
if a guy could modify a threeor eight brad Us things in the three
hundred Savage, or if anybody outthere has done it. Well, maybe
I had not looked that up.But you're in Springfield, Missouri right correct.
Looks to me like Bass Pro Shophas it right there. Well,

(23:17):
all the gun stores I've been toso far, there's all three hundred savage
rounds. Huh. Okay, Wellif you would you here's the question.
Would you be okay buying online andhaving it shipped to you. I don't
have a source to a computer.I don't have internet. Okay, then

(23:40):
yeah, you're got to be restrictedto local and I don't know. I
mean you might try the Big BassPro Shop headquarters which is right there in
Springfield. Obviously. Uh, theymay be able to. If they don't
have it in stock, one oftheir other stores may have it. But
as far as reloading three hundred savagefrom three or eight, I haven't done
it. I have I looked itup, but it might be possible to

(24:00):
tell you what you keep listening andmaybe somebody that has an answer who can
call it and help us out.Okay, did that work for you?
Yes, sir? Thank you?I sure appreciate it. Thank you be
called. Uh let's see Eric iswith us out of North Carolina. Hey,
Eric, you're on gun Talk.What's your range report? Sir?
Hey Tom, I actually just pickedup a t X twenty two Taurus that

(24:22):
they released, the Jent two.The range is brand new. I just
picked it up yesterday, was justout here trying it out when you were
talking about twenty two's and for thevery reasons you were talking about so easier
to practice, have has has toshoot it. I have. I was
shooting it when you were talking aboutit. Just now. I stopped and

(24:44):
walked back here in the shade,and yeah, I've shot a few different
loads through it. No scientifical.It is really good, really good,
working flawlessly so far. I shotfour different loads through it works every time,

(25:04):
accurate. It's like a four anda half inch thread to barrel,
I think. Can I walk backhere to fifty yards and was hitting the
four inch plate, so it's it'spretty accurate for twenty two And that's got
a new trigger system called the Pittmantrigger system, named after Jason Pittman,
who is the lead designer on that. How do you like that trigger?

(25:26):
Trigger feels great? So not superknowledgeable on all the different triggers, but
it works pretty well, pretty smart. Here's here's the question for we may
have an opportunity here are you atthe range now I am? Are you
where you could actually stay on theline with us and go shoot it?

(25:47):
Sure, let's do it. Man, we're going to have live fire on
the radio. Here. Tell mewhen you're ready. All right, I
just reloaded back. I'm ready.All right, let her rip. I
want you to shoot it and describeit, and then give us a talk

(26:08):
through as you do it. Okay, all right, Well I'm gonna go
one handed since i'm holding the telephone. Perfect. I'm right here. Forty
yards. Maybe I'm not sure ifyou can hear the steel. I heard

(26:36):
the steel on there. I wasgoing to say, I think I heard
some steel there, so you mustbe hitting something. Yeah. Yeah,
it's a two thirty six from fortyyards from forty yards one handed, one
handed? That is not something.Now do you have a red dot?
Are you shooting it with iron sights? I did put a red dot.
My eyes don't work with iron sightsvery well anymore. Well, yeah,

(27:04):
I'm sorry, go ahead. Iwas said, that's one reason why I
picked up this one was because ofthe red dot. Mount I'm glad you
arrested. That's about as good aarrange for as you can get. Have
you shooting and hitting steal at fortyyards one handed with your your Taurus the
uh that is really not the tX twenty two. This is the gym
too right, correct? So whatwas it that made that got you turned

(27:30):
on to that, that made yougo buy it? Well, I was
looking at the t X only two'sand many of the reasons you just stated
before the break cheaper, easier toshoot. I think my wife will enjoy
shooting it a lot better than hernine milimeter. More practice for less money.

(27:51):
Uh. And fortunately I waited aweekend and they released this one that
was about to buy the old persontiming for the first time ever, it
worked out in my favor. Allright, So this has a threaded barrel.
Are you gonna do you have acan? Or are you gonna put
a suppressor on it? I don'thave one, but it sure is tempting

(28:15):
to look into getting one now.Well, especially now that the weight time
is like a week instead of ayear. I mean, you know,
you just do it, come backby the end of the week, and
you got your suppressor. That wouldbe amazing. You'll love it. Well,
you're gonna love that thing, Ido already very good. Well,

(28:37):
that is a seriously great range report. And yeah, you know you can.
You can work with Science Central,one of our sponsors. There are
a lot of ways to get acan, get a suppressor, and they've
got that weight time down to abouta week now. Sometimes it's like a
day. It's just amazing what hashappened there? So, Oh, I
heard a story. When we comeback, I'll tell you the story I

(28:59):
heard of what happened to reduce thewait time, the lead time. It's
the craziest bureaucratic story. Slap yourhead thing you ever heard. We'll tell
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(29:22):
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(31:03):
give a guy's name because I don'twant to give him away. But somebody
we know was in a position tobe able to go to the ATF processing
center where they process the applications forsuppressors and talking to the I guess whoever's

(31:23):
in charge of that new person wentin and decided to go work there,
actually work as a processor for aweek or two. Find out what's really
going on around here. This isjust so stupid. Okay, so you
know that it was taking anywhere fromsix months to a year to get your
suppressor. Here's why. When yougot this whole string of applications come in,

(31:49):
right, they're all lined up,one after another, one after another,
all lined up. When they hitone that had a delay for whatever
reason, it could be a tiea paperwork. To you, somebody's names
sound like somebody else's. They stoppedthe application process until they could clear that

(32:12):
one application. Everybody behind that onestopped, and this person said, well,
why don't we do the McDonald's thing. Go the what you know,
when you've got a special order,you're in the drive, you know,
they say, could you pull overthere to the other side. We'll keep
processing people through, we'll keep givingthem their burgers while we work on your

(32:38):
special order, and then we willbring it out to you. And so
they simply now pulled the one that'sdelayed, put it to the side while
they're working on that, but theycontinue to process the other orders. I
am not making this u up unbelievable. The bureaucratic mindset, it would

(33:07):
have allowed that old system not onlyto evolve, but to continue year after
year. But I guess if nobodycares or actually no way wants these orders
to be processed, that's what youget. Let's see here, Oh,
I do want to pick up.Let's drop all the way down to line

(33:28):
one, Mike, because he's gota solution for us here. Hey,
Mike, help us out on thisthree hundred savage and three eight brass.
Yeah, you can. You canmake three hundred savage out of threeh eight.
You have to saw the neck offand run it through three hundred savage
dies. But other than that,that's all it is. Huh, that's

(33:50):
pretty much. That's pretty much it. It's a little challenging because it's got
a shorter neck, so you wantto make sure that you use brass that
is fairly fresh so you get goodneck tension on it. I would probably
also want to check the neck thickness, the brass thickness of the neck.

(34:15):
It could possibly end up being toothick and then have too much attension.
But yet to your point of havingneck tension, paying attention, But evidently
that's not a big deal. Justrun it through, saw it off,
you know, and now you've gotyour length and you've got a three hundred
savage. That's what I was lookingfor. I appreciate that, sir.
Yes, and you can you canget a you can get a little chop

(34:36):
saw. Yeah, trim die choppingthe neck off from Harbor Free. It's
cheap, good old Harbor Fray.They may be cheap, but a lot
of times they work until they don't. Yes, absolutely, thank you,
Thanks, I appreciate I appreciate thehelp. And let's grab Peter. He's
the online three out of Virginia State. And of Peter, you got a

(34:58):
take on this whole Alle Baldwin thing. Why don't you jump in? Well,
I do something that I've never heardanybody talk about, and it's this.
You know, he says that henever pulled the trigger. Well,
I believe him. I believe Idon't believe that he cocked the gun,
put his finger on the trigger andpulled it. When he drew the gun,

(35:19):
he already had his finger on thetrigger. He was gripping the gun
with his trigger finger in addition tohis other fingers. Now you can see
that on some of these clips thatthey've shown, where he's drawing the gun
at the camera. You've probably seenit. And if you look at his
hand. He's gripping the gun withhis trigger finger in addition to his other
fingers, and if you cock thehammer and let go of it, it's

(35:40):
going to go bang, right,I see what you're saying. So he
didn't actually take a separate motion aftercocking the hammer. He's actually pulled the
trigger before he cocks the hammer,and then when he lets go the hammer,
it just flies forward like it's supposedto. That's what I believe happened.
And in addition all talking about responsibility, he wasn't just an actor that

(36:02):
showed up on the set to dohis bit. He was a producer.
He was responsible for what happens onthat set. So having a real gun,
live AMMO and all that, youknow, I think he does bear
some responsibility. I agree. Andthat's where it gets really interesting and tricky,
because he has that dual responsibility ofthe person who pulled the trigger or

(36:22):
fire the gun, but also beingthe producer in charge of the entire movie
set, which means he should havebeen responsible for the safety of the environment
there. So you've got that going. So I don't know which one they
look at. Do they look atthe one of the producer responsibility or the
person who's handling the gun. Andyou got to know that there's a lot

(36:44):
of people, a lot of lawyersmaking a lot of money trying to figure
this thing out. Yeah, youcan bet. But I would implorer everybody
to get on YouTube and look atthose videos of him drawing the gun toward
the camera. You'll see that he'sgot his finger on the trigger. There
you go. I mean, it'sjust one way to go. I appreciate
that. Uh speaking of such,I just and look, I know we

(37:07):
start off all sorts of uh warson this when you come to start talking
about ways of carrying conceal and whenyou start talking about appendix carrying, and
then you get the charge, Ohyou boomers don't understand. It's a lot
faster you could conceal. Oh beokay, fine, I get I get
it. I think probably appendix carryis faster on the draw. I think

(37:30):
for some people it's comfortable. It'snot comfortable for a lot of people.
I mean myself included. And peoplesay, well, you haven't tried the
right holster. I've tried a lotof holsters. It just doesn't work with
my body shape, form, size, whatever. And then there's this other
factor. A friend of mine toldme. He says, yes, as
my cousin just blew his junk off, I mean literally with appendix carry.

(37:59):
Yeah, that's an not to mentionthe whole femeral artery thing, which is
where the most may be pointed atsometimes and they say, well, you
know, but you can shoot yourself. You know, if you're carrying like
three o'clock persists, you can't there. You might put a crease in your
rear end and you're in your buttcheek or something toward that end. I
will touch one more time on thefact that you must should I would say,

(38:22):
but must have a good gun belt, not just a thick belt,
not just a wide belt, abelt that is made for carrying a two
pound piece of steel on your waistall day long. When you finally listen
to me and get a good gunbelt, you are going to discover Tom

(38:45):
was right. This is much morecomfortable and you'll never ever want to go
back. Trust me on this,all right, eight six' six talk
gun We'll get you in here.I'm Tom Gresham. It is gun talk.
What have you been shooting? Now? You know there's that to happen

(39:13):
you've got a lawsuit against Daniel Defense, the maker of the gun used by
the murderer, Indiuvalde the school shootingthere. I guess we're not suing the
police for standing around for more thanan hour and not going into the room
because oh my gosh, he's gota gun. Yeah, I know,
he's using it to shoot kids,and you're standing around outside while he shoots

(39:34):
kids and preventing anybody from going inthere and stopping him while he shoots kids.
But yeah, we're gonna sue themaker of the gun for this guy
misusing criminally misusing the product. Ohyeah, while they're that, they're also
going to sue the makers of videogames because video games decensitives young men to

(39:55):
violence. Well that's probably true thatit does. But still let's not hold
him responsible. Well, there's nobodyto sue there, there's no no deep
pockets to go after. Line oneberks with us, not a Fargo,
North Dakota. Burt, you're ongun talk. What's that good afternoon time?

(40:19):
Oh hey, it just so happenmy throne A cannonball one day laying
on a curb sided Moorhead, Minnesota, right across the river didn't know what
the heck it was, but Ihad to take this beautiful steel ball home,
and I found out it was atwelve pound cannonball, and so I
started learning about cannonballs. This wasa solid cannon ball. Solids were used
to breach of fortifications. But youcan see where the fuse would have gone

(40:44):
if it had been an explosive,hollow Canada ball and interesting and what they
go ahead, No, no,so they just used that as a battering
ram basically exactly. And but thehollow ones, you can you could see
where this ball, if it hadbeen a uh a uh an expose round,

(41:07):
where the fuse plug would have gone. And what the bug was.
I'm not sure exactly what material was, but it had a wound up fuse
on it, and different colors offuse determined range. And they also were
the grape shot was used extensively.To grape shot was basically you had a

(41:27):
big you had a big, hugeboard shotgun and the there'd be about fifty
caliber balls wrapped around a wooden spindlethat was uh wrapped with a cross sack,
and upon exiting that, oh,you had all this grape shot flying
out there. Uh. They alsomade a barbell type of shot and it
was actually two cannonballs with a steelbar and that was used to take down

(41:52):
that was usually take down rigging onships. And uh so yep, so
anyway, young you had explosive rooms, you had solid ball and uh uh
that's how it worked. I imaginethe the the powder charge upon firing the
tan and who lit the fuse?But or maybe they let them before they

(42:15):
shut the ball down. I don'tknow, but uh, I don't know.
Probably too. Yes, it's verydangerous business messed with that. And
oh, by the way, ifyou find a cannonball, if you don't
know for sure it's a solid youmight want to be really careful because,
believe it or not, some ofthose really old things like that still have
explosive power. And your call Sheriff'sDepartment and get d O D in there.

(42:36):
Let them take care of that.Hey, thank you for the call.
Though you brought up a lot ofinteresting things I did not know.
Didn't know about the barbell deal.Two cannonballs connected by a rod. Of
course, they're spinning around and aroundand then gets caught in the rigging of
a ship to bring it down.You know this, this demand's further study.

(42:58):
I would like to know more aboutthe various types of projectiles used by
early cannoneers. Sound like they werepretty innovative. Of course, the grape
shot we know about. I say, you're exactly right, great big shotgun,
anti personnel kind of a thing,amazing. I don't know, do
you know anything about the Have youever shot one of these old cannons?

(43:19):
And over at Fuw Branch they've gotone of those old cannons like that and
they shoot a bowling ball out ofit just for fun, just to see
if they can hit a target withit. That thing's a lot of fun.
So using black powder as well.All right, eight six six talk
gun, We are open lines.Give me a holler. When we come
back. It'll be your turn totake the floor right here at gun taller