October 26, 2025 • 43 mins
In This Hour:
-- Gun ban group Everytown launches a new firearms training effort. Reporter Lee Williams took the course and reveals it to be pure anti-gun messaging.
-- Gun rights supporters infiltrated a meeting of gun banners and were surprised at what they heard.
-- Change the way you carry your gun with different clothes.
Gun Talk 10.26.25 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Gun ban group Everytown launches a new firearms training effort. Reporter Lee Williams took the course and reveals it to be pure anti-gun messaging.
-- Gun rights supporters infiltrated a meeting of gun banners and were surprised at what they heard.
-- Change the way you carry your gun with different clothes.
Gun Talk 10.26.25 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey we're still talking about guns. Well that's what we
do around here. Hey, I'm Tom Grasha. I'm glad that
you could be with me. I am the host of
Gun Talk, and we basically just have a good time.
If there's something on your mind, if you have a
question about a gun, think about buying one, thinking about
selling one. Maybe you wonder why do some of us
(00:37):
many of us actually have guns for protection, not only
at home, not only in a vehicle, actually on a
person wearing it on our belt, has to go about
our daily activities. If that puzzles you, or if you
think it's a little weird, give me a call. Look,
I'm not going to shout you down, I'm not going
to cut you off. If we have a pleasant, respectful conversation,
(00:57):
we can go a lot of different places with that.
Here is pretty easy to remember. I'm Tom, So it
is Tom Talk gun simple as that. I am a
big proponent of getting training, of taking classes to become
a better shooter, to become better informed about self defense
(01:17):
with guns, to simply just be better with your firearm.
And so I take a lot of different classes. I
go to a lot of different places. It's fun to
take classes, and it's fun to become better at this.
And so it was really a surprise when a gun
control group, every Town for Gun Safety, decided they're going
(01:39):
to become a gun training organization. Well, we were skeptical,
so is Lee Williams. Lee Williams is known as the
gun Writer and Lee joined just right now. And Lee,
you actually took this class, didn't you.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, yes, sir, I did. It took an hour and
a half and that was an an hour and a
half of my life. I wish I could have back.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
No, no, And it's all online, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
None of their courses are live with an instructor. This
was the basic the Smart Guy to buying a gun.
It was twenty dollars. You can take it live or
on demand. I took it on demand. They have two
additional courses, including a range trip where you sit in
your home and you watch people shoot. No, yeah, you're
(02:28):
not going to the range with every town. Their instructors,
I don't know who they are, who they were. Their
names were Nellis and Jake. We didn't get there. They
didn't provide their last names on their website. And you
know as well as I do most instructors out there.
I mean, you're going to get every course they've ever attended,
everything they've ever trained, in addition to their full names.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
So they didn't even tell you who they were. They
just used first names. And you don't even know if
those your real names.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
No, exactly. I found out too. They never mentioned where
they were trained, you know, who made them instructor? What
certifications did they have? Nothing? We got Nellis and Jake
and that's about it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Okay, all right? So I mean you and I both
figure you got to go into this course. It's not
going to be like real training. But was it maybe
like training light? Was there some value to it? What
was it like?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
The only the only value to it, and I mean
the only value to it. They had Colonel Jeff Cooper's
UH for general firearm safety rules. They never mentioned his name,
never credited him, of course not. It's like they took
credit for coming up with these rules themselves. But it
(03:46):
was scary, brother. I mean some of the stuff they said,
you know, they obviously they had their their bullet points,
but then some of the things they would say were
just amazing. And this all occurred after this massive liability
warning that you have to click that you agree or
you can't go any further. Basically, it says, if you
(04:09):
need specific advice or expertise about your use of guns,
go to a qualified professional. Yeah, exactly, I love it.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Okay, So what's really going on here? Why is every
day on a gun band group wanting to become a
gun training group.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
They want to scare their viewers so badly that no
one is going to carry one, that you're going to
have your gun disassembled and locked up, and your ammunition
in a different room and your magazines in a different room.
That was clearly the goal. Guns are dangerous, they should
be unloaded, disassembled, and locked up. They were constantly saying, basically,
(04:55):
if you're a gun novice and you watch this, you're
never going to buy a gun, much less want to
carry one. If you believe what they're saying. That is
the problem with this crap.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Huh Okay, that well, you know, actually that's logical and
starts to make some sense because on the front end,
you're thinking, Okay, what are they do it, What's what's
going on? So what are they doing? Are they spewing
all of the anti gun nonsense and so called research
at you.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, and there's even some more in there. I mean
they brought up racist police officers, and having been in
law enforcement for ten years, I took a huge issue
with that. Jake said, police interactions may be risky for
black gun owners. We want to acknowledge that, gather more
information about polictioning your area. They're not that's complete bs
and it's just wrong to say. I mean, they're these
(05:47):
two instructors. They stress the benefits of building your home,
build a home security system with alarm signs, details, doorbells,
because that'll keep them out until the bad guy's in there.
Their solution and men adopted dog.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Oh, we have a.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Little Boston terrior here's she's incredible at barking as strangers.
I don't think she's going to disarm anybody. I may
be wrong, So.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
What I mean in Look, you've been to a lot
of training, You've done a lot of this stuff. Love it,
I love it, And you have covered these guys for
a long time. What is your takeaway on this thing?
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Well, it was interesting that they never even mentioned ars
or showed a photo of an AR or any other
semi auto rifle. That's a huge, huge point. I mean,
my home defense gun is an AR. I think it's
they're trying to load this up to scare folks, so
(06:54):
hoping that people will look at this and be so
scared about the Oh my god, the vagaries of home
defense are just so crazy. I don't know what I'm
going to do rather than understand that, you know, sometimes
you got to do what you need to do. But
the fact that they took Colonel Cooper's rules and didn't
even give him an ounce of credit.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Who is going to take this class?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I think you're going to find people on the fringe.
On the fringe all the mentions I got of my story,
the story did okay. There's one guy who took all
three and he was able to invest some pretty good
thoughts on it. But you're still paying them money. You know,
you're talking a hundred bucks for some of these classes,
(07:43):
and that's just crazy. I think it's they came up
with a new way of putting out anti gun propaganda.
And I'll give him this, brother, I mean, it works.
It works if you're a novice, or you don't have somebody,
or you're not listening to your show, you're going to
watch this and you're going to become scared because they're
(08:05):
parenting these little small doses a real gun safety information. Yeah,
I think that's what they're looking at. Anybody with who's
ever fired around down range is going to laugh their
butt off, trust me.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah. But at the same time, you know, these guys
are incredibly well funded. I'm sure it's well researched, and
you know they focus grouped to this thing. And I say, Okay,
this is a way that we can continue our anti
gun message to people who might be on the fence
and thinking, okay, well maybe we ought to get a gun, honey,
we ought to look into this, and let's go to
(08:41):
the gun safety people from every town for gun safety
because we're scared of them anyway, and we wanted to
go to a safe place. And yeah, they would be
susceptible from coming away from that and going WHOA, I'm
sure glad we took that class. We're never getting a gun, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Or we got a gun, let's take it completely apart
and we'll hide all the parts in twelve rooms.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, holy cow, hey h it was bad. Let me
ask you, I've got to hear a break here. When
we come back, could you give us an update.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
On Tate without any doubt?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Happy to Okay, this is a big story, a continuing story,
and lie's me at the front of this. Let's take
a quick break. I want to come back and get
that because this is one of the biggest miscarriages of
justice about firearms I've ever heard of and got my
fingers crossed as something good to come from it, but
I don't know. I'm Tom Gresham. We'll be right back
(09:39):
with more gun talk.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
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(10:13):
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Speaker 2 (10:51):
Put all your gear on that you're carry and then
roll around on the ground. Now get up all your
gear that's on the ground. That's what you're not going
to have in a fight.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
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Speaker 2 (11:00):
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You know?
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If it's like C four, it's almost like a smack
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Speaker 7 (11:09):
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You're really dating yourself. I calling things cross hairs, you're
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Speaker 8 (11:17):
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Speaker 2 (11:22):
When someone leaves you their gun collection, you may want
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Speaker 7 (11:56):
Welcome back to gun Talk, the place where we celebrate
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Speaker 2 (12:06):
We're talking with Lee Williams. He's known as the gun writer,
and Ale, you've been the guy who has been covering
and pushing and keeping this in front of people. The
story about Patrick tait Adamiac is that the correct way?
His last name it is sir.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yes, I have and I wish Patrick was out of
jail more than anything right now. He's just starting his
third year of his twenty year prison sentence. Patrick was
a parts dealer. He didn't have an FFL. He was
selling gun parts online and was sentence to twenty years
for items that you can buy legally right now on
(12:44):
a website. They don't even need to see your ID.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That sounds ridiculous on the face of it. How did
that happen?
Speaker 3 (12:53):
It is the ATF went to a bad source. The
source contact that Patrick bought a couple of items. AHF
rated his home home, went through all his safe They
couldn't find anything illegal. So they brought they bought in
this guy who used to sell guns, and he basically
(13:14):
cut up stuff and charged him with PPSh body, RPGs
of it hanging on the wall, and a toy sten
that he brought in a real stin partskin and got
to fire one round. I mean they went to work
on this guy to save ATFO from looking foolish. But
(13:39):
my god, he's serving twenty years.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
So they were investigating. They weren't trying to find out
if he had committed a crime. They said, Okay, we're
going to put this guy in jail and don't come
You go into that room and don't come out until
you have made something illegal out of what he had.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And that was ATF Firearms Enforcement Officer Jeffrey Bodell's job.
I mean, he turned RPGs into destructive devices, one hundred
percent legal semi autos. In the machine guns. Tate had
handguns that fire from an open bowl. They're super rare,
super expensive, he called the machine and they're legal. You
(14:17):
can buy them online. They'll ship you know one. Modell
basically insisted, we're illegal, are still sold online.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Bring us up to date now.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Well, I talked to his appell at attorney. I know
I'm not a big fan of attorney's period, but I
got to tell you this, Matt LaRosa l Rosier, he's
based in Orlando, is the real deal. He's a fighter.
We got a nice picture of him on my website
where he's shooting France's first semi automatic rifle. He's a
gun guy. He's based in like I said, based in Orlando,
(14:52):
and we're going to have uh. He won an appeal
one of the charges they admitted. The appellate court found
that the trial court had screwed up on They charged
him twice for the same thing. Like le Rozier said,
it'd be like charging someone with murder and manslaughter for
a death. So he gets a hearing on that and
(15:14):
hopefully hopefully he'll be able to bring up some of
these other charges that are completely wrong.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Well, the thing I want people to understand, I've been
covering the ATF for fifty years and I have seen
this happen. I've heard about this happening. I had a
friend who the ATF did a raid on his place.
He was a large machine gun dealer, took his guns,
(15:42):
kept him for a year, never charged him with a crime,
just took his guns, and when he went to them
and said, you know, how do I get my guns back?
They said, if you make a stink about this, we're
going to charge you. He finally filed against them, and
the next day they took away. They revoked his license
and charged him with a crime. They just went and
(16:04):
stole like a quarter of a million or a million
dollars worth of guns from him. I mean, they had helicopters,
they had vans, they had news crews coming in behind them.
It was like Waco all over again.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
That's how they operate. They when they when they do
these warrants, they hit people who would gladly let them
into their home and open their sace and show them
nothing illegal, right, They hit it with swat teams. Like
these guys are such bad oberis. They're not. I mean,
look obviously, look what happened in recently to the gentleman
(16:39):
who tried to defend himself because he thought they were
bad guys.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah. Brian Melanowski, he was the director of the Little Rock,
Arkansas Airport, a you know, respective member of the community.
He went to his office every day and instead of
going to his office and have a conversation with him.
ATF kicks in the door in the middle of or
like six o'clock in the morning, and he thinks it's
a home invasion. He gets this gun and they shoot
him and kill him.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And you know, the one thing that we're seeing, excuse me,
is that ATF is hitting these good people because they're
convinced if you sell guns or gun parts, you must
be doing something illegal. So they get these terrible, terrible informants.
They pay them thousands of dollars and they get nothing,
but they still go and kick these doors in. And
(17:26):
that is the scary part. Nothing Tate has or had
was illegal. I mean, Tom, they even took his quin collection,
which was worth a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
There's something else here, Lee and I have decided, after
watching this for decades, is they really like to do
these big, publicize raids on people they know are not
only not guilty, but people that they know are not
(17:57):
going to resist because it's a lot safe for to
kick in the doors of good guys rather than go
after bad guys.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, if the HF is looking for
something to do, go into the inner city and go
after the guys who are have these blocks, which is
on that are running down innocent people. Okay, that is
a vital, vital this. I mean not even the Navy
brought in the judge brought up the Navy. How they're
gonna go, uh take him and knock him down at
(18:28):
E one he was an six and active duty six
and he's.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Going to go into the seals. He was going to
become a Navy seal.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
He had been accepted in the Seals school. Yeah, well,
the Navy thought different. He was allowed to serve out
his enlistment behind bars, and he was paid up until
the day that the Navy gave him an honorable discharge.
That's a lot of us at Navy. All right, Ques,
Now he even gets free college.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Tom all right, question for you, and then we got
to go you've been covering this and you also cover
that's going on with the Department of Justice and the
Trump administration. Is there a possibility of getting the President
Trump to come in and say, all right, knock it off,
I'm going to pardon this guy, make it go away.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
I've heard that same question from more than one hundred people.
I would say he will do it, but he's got
to wait until I think the legal has finished. Right
now Matt Lerosari could get him out. Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Well, look, I appreciate you covering and keeping us up
to date on this. It's one of those stories. It's like,
I hate that we have to talk about this, but
we have to talk about this.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
We do, I know, we agree.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, thank you, sir. You can check out his writing
at his substack. Place where else can they see what
you're up to?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Saf dot org. Go to saf is in Second Amendments
Foundation dot org.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
There you go, Lee, Thank you for covering that. Thank
you for keeping us up to date. And I'm sorry
you had to sit to an hour and a half
of every towns so called gun training. Man.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
God, it's okay, thank you, Thank you for sympathy.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
All right, you take care? Yeah you know, yeah, okay,
we know what every town's up to. They're pretty sophisticated.
They got some smart people there, and they got a
lot of money. They got Michael Bloomberg's Look, the guy
is worth I don't know, somewhere between fifty and one
hundred billion dollars. And gun control is his thing, and
(20:24):
taking guns away from people, that's his thing. And so
he created every Town for Gun Safety and he created
the Traces phony news organization that's nothing more than a
propaganda piece for gun control. And so when they come
up with a firearm training organization, you know that they researched,
(20:45):
you know they've looked at it. It's part of an
overall plan. And so while it's kind of fun to
make fun of it, at the same time, it would
be foolish to not take it seriously. Okay, what are
they doing? There is a really good good There are
actually several, but there's a really good The biggest gun
training organization, you know what it is, the NRA one
(21:08):
hundred and twenty five thousand certified Firearm Instructors, the largest
firearm training organization in the country, maybe in the world,
certainly train more people than probably all of the law
enforcement organizations put together. So we do have good training
(21:30):
out there, whether it's the NRA, USCCA, I mean, pick
your group. There are a lot of those. And then
of course you've got private organizations. You got gun Site
and thunder Ranch and highreplace range reading studios. But there
are good trainers everywhere. I guess maybe the way for
me to put a bow on this little story is
(21:50):
that maybe it's time to make our commitment or a
recommitment for you personally to go take another class somewhere
or take your first class. If you've never taken a class,
you're in for a treat. It's really a lot of
fun and you will learn a lot. And you know,
if you've already done it, how much fun it is
and how much you learn. And guess what you've forgotten
half of what you're learned in that class, because we do.
(22:11):
It's time to go back. Sign up for a class.
All right, back with the eight six six tak gun Clark.
I'm gonna get to you in just a minute. I'll
have to uh, just got your message. We're going to
get that typed in. Have them give you a shot,
because i'd like to get that range report from you.
(22:33):
What just happened. A lot of interesting stuff going on.
It's a change of season. Next week we do the
fallback thing. We're supposed to get about four to six
inches of snow tonight. Looks clear out here right now,
but you never know. As we get a change of season,
(22:54):
we have change of clothing, which means possibly change in
the way you carry a firearm. So you knew I
was gonna get there eventually. So when you go to
heavier clothes, more clothes, more layers, it can become easier
to conceal a gun, but it can also become more
(23:16):
complicated depending on what you're wearing. One of the things
I guess I would suggest is as you make a change,
if you say, okay, I'm gonna have a sweater, I'm
gonna have a vest. And oh, by the way, I
really like vest for cover garments. I have a number
(23:36):
of fleece vests that work really well. I can carry
a full sized pistol and an outside the waistband holster
on my belt and a vest will cover it up
and you just never see the pistol. I've got a
magazine and a mag pouch on one side and a
big pistol on the other side, and nobody ever notices so,
(23:59):
and then you can put coat over that whatever. But
just a if you get somewhere you got to take
your coat off, you still have your vest on, which
you can wear like anywhere in a restaurant or some
other place. So I'm a big fan of the fleece
insulated whatever you want to do it, insulated vest as
a cover garment doesn't working in the hot summer, but boy,
(24:22):
this time of year, it's a really good option. So
just you know, some thoughts for you there. Oh, by
the way, when we had al on earlier, he was
asking about his grandson's in skeet shooting. You also wanted
to know what gauge do? I recommend The thing is
in skeet you have different gauges that you shoot. There's
(24:42):
a twelve gage category I guess you'd call it, and
you shoot twelve, twenty, twenty eight and four ten. There's
no sixteen gage, so you know, pick one. You're gonna
be competing against other people shooting that same gage. But
you can use a twenty gauge, for instance, in a
(25:03):
twelve gage event. It's not a bad idea because you're
going to break pretty much the same number of targets
with the twenty gage as you are with a twelve gage.
You're gonna have less recoil. But I would also say
that for ski shooting, definitely go with low recoil loads,
go with lighter charge weights lower basically lighter, less pellets.
(25:28):
I guess this would be the way to put it.
And you might say, well, geek, if you have fewer pellets,
can you break targets? Yeah, you can. Actually, the reduced
recoil really helps people break more targets. So there you go. Yeah,
I'll tell you what. If you've got CROCS number, go
ahead and give him a holler, give him a call.
(25:48):
We'll get him up here and just to say, we'll
bring him in on the back side of this break.
We're doing this live. We're catching the flyes that are
coming by, so we'll grab that as well. Let's do this. Uh,
let's grab Alan online three and bring him in right now. Hey, Alan,
what's sir?
Speaker 9 (26:07):
Well, you were talking about the ATF and how they
they trick these people and take their guns and stuff.
This has been going on forever. They the this whole
thing up there at North Idaho. Wheie Weaver he was
baited into sawing off a shotgun. They wanted him to
(26:29):
paid him money, lived up there in a cab and
had no money, and they paid him money to cut
off the shotgun. And then of course he said they
they sought it off more and he couldn't prove different.
But as it worked out, they ended up shooting his
unarmed wife on the porch, killed her, and they shot
at the boy because they shot the dog and then
(26:50):
they ended up the boy shooting at them, and they
ended up killing the boy.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Too, Sammy. They shot Sammy in the back. His teenage
boy killed him, shot vic He his wife killed her U.
She was holding the infant. And yeah, they set up
Randy Weaver by getting him coercing him to cut a
barrel off on a shotgun. Here's the thing. We're talking
about a pipe. It's a simple pipe and if it's
(27:16):
eighteen inches long, it's legal. If it's seventeen and three
quarter inches long, it's illegal. And they got him to
cut it off, and then they said, okay, now we
got you. We want you to inform on this group.
And he said, I'm not going to do that. I'm
not even a part of that group of white separatists
or whatever they were. He said, I don't know those guys.
I'm not a part of that group. He said, well,
(27:36):
you got to go and get in there, and he said,
I'm just not going to do it. They said, well,
then we're going to have to arrest you. And so
that's how that whole thing started. It was from their
coercion to get him to cut a piece of pipe off.
When you think about it. It's just immoral and ridiculous
on the face of it. But that look, this goes
(27:56):
way back. There are so many stories about this is
how ATF is work. You know, it wasn't. Here's the thing,
it wasn't Wayne Lapierre the first dubbed the ATF jack
booted thugs. You know who it was. It was John Dingle,
a Democrat congressman who originally came up with the term
jack booted thugs for the ATF. Going way back. So
(28:19):
this has been going on for forty years, fifty years,
whatever it is. So look, I appreciate the call. I
appreciate you bringing that up because that's that's something that
we we have to remember. We have to remember to
remind people this is the history the legacy of a
rogue agency. Yeah, John Dingo was the one that called
(28:41):
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Wasn't the NRA that came up with that. It was
a Democrat eight six six talk gun, be right.
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Speaker 2 (31:12):
So a few minutes ago, I'm doing the show. We're
talking with Lee Williams. We're talking about this training class
from every Town for Gun Safety, and I get a
text from Clark Opocian, who of course is a top
fires instructor and Second Amendment activist out in Utah. He says,
he says, what do you need to talk? I said, well,
call Clark. Let's find out what's going on. So Clark,
(31:33):
what's going on?
Speaker 11 (31:35):
Hey? Tom? Tom? Tom? We infiltrated the Mom's Command Action
meeting last week that's Wednesday here in Salt Lake City,
and we intercepted an email. Yeah, we intercepted in an
email and found out, well, they're going to have it
as a local library. I checked the rules and regsent
library they can't kick us out of even their meeting
room that they reserved. So we showed up in cognito.
(31:58):
You know, I'm not wearing my my colors or anything
like that. And I went with Rayl Cunningham, she's the
regional director for Women for Gun Rights, and we just
sat in the back and listened. They had their executive
director for women or for Mom's Demand Action there and
I found I googled it while while she was there.
(32:21):
You know how much she makes. First off, she spoke
for about fifteen minutes and answered three questions in a
litany of basically word salad. If I was if I
was one of their supporters that showed up and was
hoping for some information to you know, go to the
legislature or my representatives with, I would have felt woefully
inadequate with what they told. Just terrible word salad. This
(32:43):
woman goes around, she makes three hundred and fifty k
a year doing this from you know, remember this is
Bloomberg money. The same person that started Mayors for Illegal
Guns and so many of them were indicted and put
in prison for one thing or another. And in fact
Moms Demand Action. The two main people, the main person
(33:05):
for the state and the regional director that covers Utah.
They're both men, so they and no matter what they say,
they can never be moms. But anyway, how was the turnout?
Twenty three people including us, and so we came with
free I came with one of my directors, and so
(33:26):
eighteen people decides or no, yeah, eighteen or nineteen people
then plus us. So and it lasted about an hour
and a half and they had snacks. But essentially I
had my director who kind of flies under the radar,
and he asked the question, well, what kind of we
need some stats on you know, this and that and this.
(33:48):
They kept saying every time we wanted data, every time
we wanted stats or facts or something to look up,
they said, no, no, no, no, no, we don't do stats.
We do storytelling. That was their words. We do storytelling
influence via storytelling. So so anyway, and we know that.
Another very interesting thing, they started talking about safe storage.
(34:10):
You know, NSSF has been doing safe storage for years
and years and years. Their mantra was exactly the same
as nssf's, yet they thought this was a unique and
novel approach. Then with suicide, Utah is number seven or
number eight right now in suicide, So we're high, they
literally said. The regional director literally said the LDS Church,
(34:34):
the Church of Jesus Christ Larday Saints, is to blame
for the high suicide rate.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
He said that part out.
Speaker 11 (34:41):
We actually have it recorded. So anyway, they blame. They
blame Missouri's crime rate. And they literally said, you know,
thousands of black men are being killed in Missouri. And
they said it's because of bad gun laws. And we said,
and I actually had to stop my director from raising
(35:01):
his hands, thing who's killing them? And why isn't it
happening next door? But they literally blamed they literally blamed
the gun laws. And we have much more permissive laws
in Utahn. We're third and third and third list and homicide.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Quite a nice question for you. Were the people who
were sitting in on this were they buying it? Were
they just soaking all this up and believing it.
Speaker 11 (35:28):
Well, it's hard to they didn't. You know, when you
do that, you ask a lot of questions, You get
a lot of audience involvement. There were probably five questions
over this hour and a half. And that is it? So,
I mean, and you know what we accounted for two
of those questions too.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So anyway, there a call to action. So I kind
of like, therefore, we're all going to go out and
do this thing.
Speaker 11 (35:53):
Nope, nope, there was go to the website sign up
and there their mantra would sign up and show up.
Oh the other thing is they literally said the quiet
part out loud. They said, are red shirts and sometimes
moms command actions are not being received well even among
(36:14):
they didn't say democrats, but even among our people. And
so now they've switched to the same exact mantra. But
now they're doing this be smart, their training program, be smart.
And they're wearing green shirts. So that so that when
they see the red shirts, they don't you know, they
don't get people running from them. You know, they're going
(36:37):
to use They set out loud that they want to
use the Michigan shooting as a way to influence churches,
to get into churches, and.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
That, yeah, they take a tragedy and they use that
for political gain. I mean, that is how they work.
And like you say, and they don't really care about
the actual numbers. Are is crime going up? Is crime
going down? Doesn't matter. Just tell story that makes people
feel bad and then say, if you don't want to
feel bad about that kind of thing, you need to
have more gun control loss.
Speaker 11 (37:07):
Yep, somebody did ask about They actually brought up the
NRA and other pro gun training organizations. This was, you know,
one of their followers, and the regional director said, oh no,
the NRA's idea of safe storage is just hide it
under a mattress. And their idea of firearm training is
just shoot everybody, literally, and we have that on recording too.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Oh jeez.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
He actually said that, I'm not surprised to look that
they lie for a living. That's what they do. I'm
glad that you got to get in there. You slipped
in and got I'm sure you recorded the whole thing. Fascinating,
But it's also interesting that they had so few people.
It's like there's really nobody there. There's no impact. I
think they are quickly becoming irrelevant.
Speaker 11 (37:52):
Yeah, yeah, you got. And the key thing is irrelevant
even among their own people. Their own people are running
from them, and uh, you know, and the legislators are
so yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Clark Oppostion, thank you for bringing us up to date
on that. Well done. You guys are doing great work
out there. Thanks Tom, alrighty, you take care. Yeah. Wow.
Kind of not surprised that even among the Democrats they're
not paying attention to the rabbit anti gunners, the gun banners.
(38:30):
I mean, look, they're gun banners, and they'll say that,
they'll actually come out with that, and the fact that
they're saying, well, you know they are ay, they just
say shoot everybody. That's been their whole dealers, raise those
guns for everybody. No, never said that, never said shoot
to everybody, and certainly never said to store your gun
under a mattress for safe storage. For haven's sakes, you know,
(38:50):
it's okase, Like, okay, if you're in control of your gun,
that's one thing. And if you're not, you're not there. Yeah,
you need to have it stored safely. N RA and
NSSF have both said that for many years. Just think
(39:10):
about that last report we had from Clark epotion. They
infiltrated a meeting of the gun banners, the Mom's Demand
Action Group. They're the ones who show up at legislators
legislatures and they have their red shirts on and they
sit there and you look, it makes an impact that
(39:31):
it's a good effect for the cameras. I like the idea.
I've been filtrating these groups, and you know, and you
can join those groups I have. I've joined every town
and Mom's Demand and get their newsletters and get the
email and find that when they're going to have a meeting,
and go to the meeting and take a couple of
(39:52):
your friends. Don't sit together, maybe spread out and maybe
each of you you limit yourself to one question each
so it doesn't look like you're getting it up on them.
And you're sitting in different places, and you ask a
question very innocently, well, what are women supposed to do
(40:15):
when they're vulnerable and they're out on the street and
there's nobody there to take care of them? What do
we recommend? And just throw questions like that out there,
basically just tossing monkey wrenches into the whole thing. I
get it that you're thinking, well, that's not going to
(40:37):
be effective, that's not going to do anything. You know
what we would do, it'd be entertaining and it would eventually,
probably quickly cause them to make a change in what
they do. I don't know if this meeting is like
a fundraiser. I don't know if they even care about
fundraising that much. Honestly, when they've got Bloomberg bucks behind them,
(40:58):
maybe they don't need the money even wonder why are
you even having a meeting, And maybe it's just because
we got to, you know, feed the folks out there,
keep them interested, so that when we want them to
show up at the legislature they will. But I kind
of like the idea, you and two of your buddies,
(41:19):
particularly women, if you can wives, girlfriends, whatever, sisters, bring
them with you and filtrate the meeting, sit at different places. Oh,
that would be a good range report for gun talk.
If you do that, you get some serious ada boys
and at of girls on that one. We can I
(41:41):
like this idea. This is getting to be kind of
a fun Would it be too much to say this
is enemy action? Of course it is. They want to
stomp out our constitutional rights. They want to stop out
the rights that are God given. Because the Second Amendment
is not a great granted to us by the Constitution,
(42:04):
it's a right there's guaranteed by the Constitution. The Second
Amendment simply tells Congress, you have to keep your hands
off of our guns. The right to keep in bear
arms shall not be infringed. It doesn't grant us a right.
(42:25):
It simply tells the government, we already have this right,
and you've got to leave it alone. These people want
to eliminate this right. They want to eliminate your ability
to protect yourself and your family. They openly say it
should be a be illegal for you to protect yourself
(42:48):
and your family. And they make pretty good strides in
some places to get people prosecuted when they do, in
fact protect themselves. So I have no problem in filtrating
their meetings and finding out what they're doing. That's just smart.
If you want to talk about that, or you want
to talk about your guns, give me a holler right now.
(43:10):
We'll blow it right into the after show eight six
y' six talk gun in the meantime this week. Check
it out. Go to xSex dot com. That's the Elon
Musk thing formerly Twitter. I am at gun Talk. Over there,
I'll be posting a number of things with updates to
the stories that we're talking about here. So if you
want to keep up you want to know what's going on,
(43:30):
follow me over all next and follow us on all
the social media platforms because gun talk is everywhere
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey we're still talking about guns. Well that's what we
do around here. Hey, I'm Tom Grasha. I'm glad that
you could be with me. I am the host of
Gun Talk, and we basically just have a good time.
If there's something on your mind, if you have a
question about a gun, think about buying one, thinking about
selling one. Maybe you wonder why do some of us
(00:37):
many of us actually have guns for protection, not only
at home, not only in a vehicle, actually on a
person wearing it on our belt, has to go about
our daily activities. If that puzzles you, or if you
think it's a little weird, give me a call. Look,
I'm not going to shout you down, I'm not going
to cut you off. If we have a pleasant, respectful conversation,
(00:57):
we can go a lot of different places with that.
Here is pretty easy to remember. I'm Tom, So it
is Tom Talk gun simple as that. I am a
big proponent of getting training, of taking classes to become
a better shooter, to become better informed about self defense
(01:17):
with guns, to simply just be better with your firearm.
And so I take a lot of different classes. I
go to a lot of different places. It's fun to
take classes, and it's fun to become better at this.
And so it was really a surprise when a gun
control group, every Town for Gun Safety, decided they're going
(01:39):
to become a gun training organization. Well, we were skeptical,
so is Lee Williams. Lee Williams is known as the
gun Writer and Lee joined just right now. And Lee,
you actually took this class, didn't you.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, yes, sir, I did. It took an hour and
a half and that was an an hour and a
half of my life. I wish I could have back.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
No, no, And it's all online, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
None of their courses are live with an instructor. This
was the basic the Smart Guy to buying a gun.
It was twenty dollars. You can take it live or
on demand. I took it on demand. They have two
additional courses, including a range trip where you sit in
your home and you watch people shoot. No, yeah, you're
(02:28):
not going to the range with every town. Their instructors,
I don't know who they are, who they were. Their
names were Nellis and Jake. We didn't get there. They
didn't provide their last names on their website. And you
know as well as I do most instructors out there.
I mean, you're going to get every course they've ever attended,
everything they've ever trained, in addition to their full names.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
So they didn't even tell you who they were. They
just used first names. And you don't even know if
those your real names.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
No, exactly. I found out too. They never mentioned where
they were trained, you know, who made them instructor? What
certifications did they have? Nothing? We got Nellis and Jake
and that's about it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Okay, all right? So I mean you and I both
figure you got to go into this course. It's not
going to be like real training. But was it maybe
like training light? Was there some value to it? What
was it like?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
The only the only value to it, and I mean
the only value to it. They had Colonel Jeff Cooper's
UH for general firearm safety rules. They never mentioned his name,
never credited him, of course not. It's like they took
credit for coming up with these rules themselves. But it
(03:46):
was scary, brother. I mean some of the stuff they said,
you know, they obviously they had their their bullet points,
but then some of the things they would say were
just amazing. And this all occurred after this massive liability
warning that you have to click that you agree or
you can't go any further. Basically, it says, if you
(04:09):
need specific advice or expertise about your use of guns,
go to a qualified professional. Yeah, exactly, I love it.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Okay, So what's really going on here? Why is every
day on a gun band group wanting to become a
gun training group.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
They want to scare their viewers so badly that no
one is going to carry one, that you're going to
have your gun disassembled and locked up, and your ammunition
in a different room and your magazines in a different room.
That was clearly the goal. Guns are dangerous, they should
be unloaded, disassembled, and locked up. They were constantly saying, basically,
(04:55):
if you're a gun novice and you watch this, you're
never going to buy a gun, much less want to
carry one. If you believe what they're saying. That is
the problem with this crap.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Huh Okay, that well, you know, actually that's logical and
starts to make some sense because on the front end,
you're thinking, Okay, what are they do it, What's what's
going on? So what are they doing? Are they spewing
all of the anti gun nonsense and so called research
at you.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, and there's even some more in there. I mean
they brought up racist police officers, and having been in
law enforcement for ten years, I took a huge issue
with that. Jake said, police interactions may be risky for
black gun owners. We want to acknowledge that, gather more
information about polictioning your area. They're not that's complete bs
and it's just wrong to say. I mean, they're these
(05:47):
two instructors. They stress the benefits of building your home,
build a home security system with alarm signs, details, doorbells,
because that'll keep them out until the bad guy's in there.
Their solution and men adopted dog.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Oh, we have a.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Little Boston terrior here's she's incredible at barking as strangers.
I don't think she's going to disarm anybody. I may
be wrong, So.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
What I mean in Look, you've been to a lot
of training, You've done a lot of this stuff. Love it,
I love it, And you have covered these guys for
a long time. What is your takeaway on this thing?
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Well, it was interesting that they never even mentioned ars
or showed a photo of an AR or any other
semi auto rifle. That's a huge, huge point. I mean,
my home defense gun is an AR. I think it's
they're trying to load this up to scare folks, so
(06:54):
hoping that people will look at this and be so
scared about the Oh my god, the vagaries of home
defense are just so crazy. I don't know what I'm
going to do rather than understand that, you know, sometimes
you got to do what you need to do. But
the fact that they took Colonel Cooper's rules and didn't
even give him an ounce of credit.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Who is going to take this class?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I think you're going to find people on the fringe.
On the fringe all the mentions I got of my story,
the story did okay. There's one guy who took all
three and he was able to invest some pretty good
thoughts on it. But you're still paying them money. You know,
you're talking a hundred bucks for some of these classes,
(07:43):
and that's just crazy. I think it's they came up
with a new way of putting out anti gun propaganda.
And I'll give him this, brother, I mean, it works.
It works if you're a novice, or you don't have somebody,
or you're not listening to your show, you're going to
watch this and you're going to become scared because they're
(08:05):
parenting these little small doses a real gun safety information. Yeah,
I think that's what they're looking at. Anybody with who's
ever fired around down range is going to laugh their
butt off, trust me.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah. But at the same time, you know, these guys
are incredibly well funded. I'm sure it's well researched, and
you know they focus grouped to this thing. And I say, Okay,
this is a way that we can continue our anti
gun message to people who might be on the fence
and thinking, okay, well maybe we ought to get a gun, honey,
we ought to look into this, and let's go to
(08:41):
the gun safety people from every town for gun safety
because we're scared of them anyway, and we wanted to
go to a safe place. And yeah, they would be
susceptible from coming away from that and going WHOA, I'm
sure glad we took that class. We're never getting a gun, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Or we got a gun, let's take it completely apart
and we'll hide all the parts in twelve rooms.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, holy cow, hey h it was bad. Let me
ask you, I've got to hear a break here. When
we come back, could you give us an update.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
On Tate without any doubt?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Happy to Okay, this is a big story, a continuing story,
and lie's me at the front of this. Let's take
a quick break. I want to come back and get
that because this is one of the biggest miscarriages of
justice about firearms I've ever heard of and got my
fingers crossed as something good to come from it, but
I don't know. I'm Tom Gresham. We'll be right back
(09:39):
with more gun talk.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
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Speaker 2 (10:51):
Put all your gear on that you're carry and then
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Speaker 1 (10:58):
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Speaker 6 (11:04):
If it's like C four, it's almost like a smack
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Speaker 7 (11:09):
On your crosshairs, I like a thin crosshair ange.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
You're really dating yourself. I calling things cross hairs, you're
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Speaker 8 (11:17):
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Speaker 2 (11:22):
When someone leaves you their gun collection, you may want
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Speaker 7 (11:56):
Welcome back to gun Talk, the place where we celebrate
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Speaker 2 (12:06):
We're talking with Lee Williams. He's known as the gun writer,
and Ale, you've been the guy who has been covering
and pushing and keeping this in front of people. The
story about Patrick tait Adamiac is that the correct way?
His last name it is sir.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yes, I have and I wish Patrick was out of
jail more than anything right now. He's just starting his
third year of his twenty year prison sentence. Patrick was
a parts dealer. He didn't have an FFL. He was
selling gun parts online and was sentence to twenty years
for items that you can buy legally right now on
(12:44):
a website. They don't even need to see your ID.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That sounds ridiculous on the face of it. How did
that happen?
Speaker 3 (12:53):
It is the ATF went to a bad source. The
source contact that Patrick bought a couple of items. AHF
rated his home home, went through all his safe They
couldn't find anything illegal. So they brought they bought in
this guy who used to sell guns, and he basically
(13:14):
cut up stuff and charged him with PPSh body, RPGs
of it hanging on the wall, and a toy sten
that he brought in a real stin partskin and got
to fire one round. I mean they went to work
on this guy to save ATFO from looking foolish. But
(13:39):
my god, he's serving twenty years.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
So they were investigating. They weren't trying to find out
if he had committed a crime. They said, Okay, we're
going to put this guy in jail and don't come
You go into that room and don't come out until
you have made something illegal out of what he had.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And that was ATF Firearms Enforcement Officer Jeffrey Bodell's job.
I mean, he turned RPGs into destructive devices, one hundred
percent legal semi autos. In the machine guns. Tate had
handguns that fire from an open bowl. They're super rare,
super expensive, he called the machine and they're legal. You
(14:17):
can buy them online. They'll ship you know one. Modell
basically insisted, we're illegal, are still sold online.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Bring us up to date now.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Well, I talked to his appell at attorney. I know
I'm not a big fan of attorney's period, but I
got to tell you this, Matt LaRosa l Rosier, he's
based in Orlando, is the real deal. He's a fighter.
We got a nice picture of him on my website
where he's shooting France's first semi automatic rifle. He's a
gun guy. He's based in like I said, based in Orlando,
(14:52):
and we're going to have uh. He won an appeal
one of the charges they admitted. The appellate court found
that the trial court had screwed up on They charged
him twice for the same thing. Like le Rozier said,
it'd be like charging someone with murder and manslaughter for
a death. So he gets a hearing on that and
(15:14):
hopefully hopefully he'll be able to bring up some of
these other charges that are completely wrong.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Well, the thing I want people to understand, I've been
covering the ATF for fifty years and I have seen
this happen. I've heard about this happening. I had a
friend who the ATF did a raid on his place.
He was a large machine gun dealer, took his guns,
(15:42):
kept him for a year, never charged him with a crime,
just took his guns, and when he went to them
and said, you know, how do I get my guns back?
They said, if you make a stink about this, we're
going to charge you. He finally filed against them, and
the next day they took away. They revoked his license
and charged him with a crime. They just went and
(16:04):
stole like a quarter of a million or a million
dollars worth of guns from him. I mean, they had helicopters,
they had vans, they had news crews coming in behind them.
It was like Waco all over again.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
That's how they operate. They when they when they do
these warrants, they hit people who would gladly let them
into their home and open their sace and show them
nothing illegal, right, They hit it with swat teams. Like
these guys are such bad oberis. They're not. I mean,
look obviously, look what happened in recently to the gentleman
(16:39):
who tried to defend himself because he thought they were
bad guys.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah. Brian Melanowski, he was the director of the Little Rock,
Arkansas Airport, a you know, respective member of the community.
He went to his office every day and instead of
going to his office and have a conversation with him.
ATF kicks in the door in the middle of or
like six o'clock in the morning, and he thinks it's
a home invasion. He gets this gun and they shoot
him and kill him.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And you know, the one thing that we're seeing, excuse me,
is that ATF is hitting these good people because they're
convinced if you sell guns or gun parts, you must
be doing something illegal. So they get these terrible, terrible informants.
They pay them thousands of dollars and they get nothing,
but they still go and kick these doors in. And
(17:26):
that is the scary part. Nothing Tate has or had
was illegal. I mean, Tom, they even took his quin collection,
which was worth a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
There's something else here, Lee and I have decided, after
watching this for decades, is they really like to do
these big, publicize raids on people they know are not
only not guilty, but people that they know are not
(17:57):
going to resist because it's a lot safe for to
kick in the doors of good guys rather than go
after bad guys.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, if the HF is looking for
something to do, go into the inner city and go
after the guys who are have these blocks, which is
on that are running down innocent people. Okay, that is
a vital, vital this. I mean not even the Navy
brought in the judge brought up the Navy. How they're
gonna go, uh take him and knock him down at
(18:28):
E one he was an six and active duty six
and he's.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Going to go into the seals. He was going to
become a Navy seal.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
He had been accepted in the Seals school. Yeah, well,
the Navy thought different. He was allowed to serve out
his enlistment behind bars, and he was paid up until
the day that the Navy gave him an honorable discharge.
That's a lot of us at Navy. All right, Ques,
Now he even gets free college.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Tom all right, question for you, and then we got
to go you've been covering this and you also cover
that's going on with the Department of Justice and the
Trump administration. Is there a possibility of getting the President
Trump to come in and say, all right, knock it off,
I'm going to pardon this guy, make it go away.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
I've heard that same question from more than one hundred people.
I would say he will do it, but he's got
to wait until I think the legal has finished. Right
now Matt Lerosari could get him out. Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Well, look, I appreciate you covering and keeping us up
to date on this. It's one of those stories. It's like,
I hate that we have to talk about this, but
we have to talk about this.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
We do, I know, we agree.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, thank you, sir. You can check out his writing
at his substack. Place where else can they see what
you're up to?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Saf dot org. Go to saf is in Second Amendments
Foundation dot org.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
There you go, Lee, Thank you for covering that. Thank
you for keeping us up to date. And I'm sorry
you had to sit to an hour and a half
of every towns so called gun training. Man.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
God, it's okay, thank you, Thank you for sympathy.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
All right, you take care? Yeah you know, yeah, okay,
we know what every town's up to. They're pretty sophisticated.
They got some smart people there, and they got a
lot of money. They got Michael Bloomberg's Look, the guy
is worth I don't know, somewhere between fifty and one
hundred billion dollars. And gun control is his thing, and
(20:24):
taking guns away from people, that's his thing. And so
he created every Town for Gun Safety and he created
the Traces phony news organization that's nothing more than a
propaganda piece for gun control. And so when they come
up with a firearm training organization, you know that they researched,
(20:45):
you know they've looked at it. It's part of an
overall plan. And so while it's kind of fun to
make fun of it, at the same time, it would
be foolish to not take it seriously. Okay, what are
they doing? There is a really good good There are
actually several, but there's a really good The biggest gun
training organization, you know what it is, the NRA one
(21:08):
hundred and twenty five thousand certified Firearm Instructors, the largest
firearm training organization in the country, maybe in the world,
certainly train more people than probably all of the law
enforcement organizations put together. So we do have good training
(21:30):
out there, whether it's the NRA, USCCA, I mean, pick
your group. There are a lot of those. And then
of course you've got private organizations. You got gun Site
and thunder Ranch and highreplace range reading studios. But there
are good trainers everywhere. I guess maybe the way for
me to put a bow on this little story is
(21:50):
that maybe it's time to make our commitment or a
recommitment for you personally to go take another class somewhere
or take your first class. If you've never taken a class,
you're in for a treat. It's really a lot of
fun and you will learn a lot. And you know,
if you've already done it, how much fun it is
and how much you learn. And guess what you've forgotten
half of what you're learned in that class, because we do.
(22:11):
It's time to go back. Sign up for a class.
All right, back with the eight six six tak gun Clark.
I'm gonna get to you in just a minute. I'll
have to uh, just got your message. We're going to
get that typed in. Have them give you a shot,
because i'd like to get that range report from you.
(22:33):
What just happened. A lot of interesting stuff going on.
It's a change of season. Next week we do the
fallback thing. We're supposed to get about four to six
inches of snow tonight. Looks clear out here right now,
but you never know. As we get a change of season,
(22:54):
we have change of clothing, which means possibly change in
the way you carry a firearm. So you knew I
was gonna get there eventually. So when you go to
heavier clothes, more clothes, more layers, it can become easier
to conceal a gun, but it can also become more
(23:16):
complicated depending on what you're wearing. One of the things
I guess I would suggest is as you make a change,
if you say, okay, I'm gonna have a sweater, I'm
gonna have a vest. And oh, by the way, I
really like vest for cover garments. I have a number
(23:36):
of fleece vests that work really well. I can carry
a full sized pistol and an outside the waistband holster
on my belt and a vest will cover it up
and you just never see the pistol. I've got a
magazine and a mag pouch on one side and a
big pistol on the other side, and nobody ever notices so,
(23:59):
and then you can put coat over that whatever. But
just a if you get somewhere you got to take
your coat off, you still have your vest on, which
you can wear like anywhere in a restaurant or some
other place. So I'm a big fan of the fleece
insulated whatever you want to do it, insulated vest as
a cover garment doesn't working in the hot summer, but boy,
(24:22):
this time of year, it's a really good option. So
just you know, some thoughts for you there. Oh, by
the way, when we had al on earlier, he was
asking about his grandson's in skeet shooting. You also wanted
to know what gauge do? I recommend The thing is
in skeet you have different gauges that you shoot. There's
(24:42):
a twelve gage category I guess you'd call it, and
you shoot twelve, twenty, twenty eight and four ten. There's
no sixteen gage, so you know, pick one. You're gonna
be competing against other people shooting that same gage. But
you can use a twenty gauge, for instance, in a
(25:03):
twelve gage event. It's not a bad idea because you're
going to break pretty much the same number of targets
with the twenty gage as you are with a twelve gage.
You're gonna have less recoil. But I would also say
that for ski shooting, definitely go with low recoil loads,
go with lighter charge weights lower basically lighter, less pellets.
(25:28):
I guess this would be the way to put it.
And you might say, well, geek, if you have fewer pellets,
can you break targets? Yeah, you can. Actually, the reduced
recoil really helps people break more targets. So there you go. Yeah,
I'll tell you what. If you've got CROCS number, go
ahead and give him a holler, give him a call.
(25:48):
We'll get him up here and just to say, we'll
bring him in on the back side of this break.
We're doing this live. We're catching the flyes that are
coming by, so we'll grab that as well. Let's do this. Uh,
let's grab Alan online three and bring him in right now. Hey, Alan,
what's sir?
Speaker 9 (26:07):
Well, you were talking about the ATF and how they
they trick these people and take their guns and stuff.
This has been going on forever. They the this whole
thing up there at North Idaho. Wheie Weaver he was
baited into sawing off a shotgun. They wanted him to
(26:29):
paid him money, lived up there in a cab and
had no money, and they paid him money to cut
off the shotgun. And then of course he said they
they sought it off more and he couldn't prove different.
But as it worked out, they ended up shooting his
unarmed wife on the porch, killed her, and they shot
at the boy because they shot the dog and then
(26:50):
they ended up the boy shooting at them, and they
ended up killing the boy.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Too, Sammy. They shot Sammy in the back. His teenage
boy killed him, shot vic He his wife killed her U.
She was holding the infant. And yeah, they set up
Randy Weaver by getting him coercing him to cut a
barrel off on a shotgun. Here's the thing. We're talking
about a pipe. It's a simple pipe and if it's
(27:16):
eighteen inches long, it's legal. If it's seventeen and three
quarter inches long, it's illegal. And they got him to
cut it off, and then they said, okay, now we
got you. We want you to inform on this group.
And he said, I'm not going to do that. I'm
not even a part of that group of white separatists
or whatever they were. He said, I don't know those guys.
I'm not a part of that group. He said, well,
(27:36):
you got to go and get in there, and he said,
I'm just not going to do it. They said, well,
then we're going to have to arrest you. And so
that's how that whole thing started. It was from their
coercion to get him to cut a piece of pipe off.
When you think about it. It's just immoral and ridiculous
on the face of it. But that look, this goes
(27:56):
way back. There are so many stories about this is
how ATF is work. You know, it wasn't. Here's the thing,
it wasn't Wayne Lapierre the first dubbed the ATF jack
booted thugs. You know who it was. It was John Dingle,
a Democrat congressman who originally came up with the term
jack booted thugs for the ATF. Going way back. So
(28:19):
this has been going on for forty years, fifty years,
whatever it is. So look, I appreciate the call. I
appreciate you bringing that up because that's that's something that
we we have to remember. We have to remember to
remind people this is the history the legacy of a
rogue agency. Yeah, John Dingo was the one that called
(28:41):
him a rogue agency and called him jack booted thugs.
Wasn't the NRA that came up with that. It was
a Democrat eight six six talk gun, be right.
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Speaker 2 (31:12):
So a few minutes ago, I'm doing the show. We're
talking with Lee Williams. We're talking about this training class
from every Town for Gun Safety, and I get a
text from Clark Opocian, who of course is a top
fires instructor and Second Amendment activist out in Utah. He says,
he says, what do you need to talk? I said, well,
call Clark. Let's find out what's going on. So Clark,
(31:33):
what's going on?
Speaker 11 (31:35):
Hey? Tom? Tom? Tom? We infiltrated the Mom's Command Action
meeting last week that's Wednesday here in Salt Lake City,
and we intercepted an email. Yeah, we intercepted in an
email and found out, well, they're going to have it
as a local library. I checked the rules and regsent
library they can't kick us out of even their meeting
room that they reserved. So we showed up in cognito.
(31:58):
You know, I'm not wearing my my colors or anything
like that. And I went with Rayl Cunningham, she's the
regional director for Women for Gun Rights, and we just
sat in the back and listened. They had their executive
director for women or for Mom's Demand Action there and
I found I googled it while while she was there.
(32:21):
You know how much she makes. First off, she spoke
for about fifteen minutes and answered three questions in a
litany of basically word salad. If I was if I
was one of their supporters that showed up and was
hoping for some information to you know, go to the
legislature or my representatives with, I would have felt woefully
inadequate with what they told. Just terrible word salad. This
(32:43):
woman goes around, she makes three hundred and fifty k
a year doing this from you know, remember this is
Bloomberg money. The same person that started Mayors for Illegal
Guns and so many of them were indicted and put
in prison for one thing or another. And in fact
Moms Demand Action. The two main people, the main person
(33:05):
for the state and the regional director that covers Utah.
They're both men, so they and no matter what they say,
they can never be moms. But anyway, how was the turnout?
Twenty three people including us, and so we came with
free I came with one of my directors, and so
(33:26):
eighteen people decides or no, yeah, eighteen or nineteen people
then plus us. So and it lasted about an hour
and a half and they had snacks. But essentially I
had my director who kind of flies under the radar,
and he asked the question, well, what kind of we
need some stats on you know, this and that and this.
(33:48):
They kept saying every time we wanted data, every time
we wanted stats or facts or something to look up,
they said, no, no, no, no, no, we don't do stats.
We do storytelling. That was their words. We do storytelling
influence via storytelling. So so anyway, and we know that.
Another very interesting thing, they started talking about safe storage.
(34:10):
You know, NSSF has been doing safe storage for years
and years and years. Their mantra was exactly the same
as nssf's, yet they thought this was a unique and
novel approach. Then with suicide, Utah is number seven or
number eight right now in suicide, So we're high, they
literally said. The regional director literally said the LDS Church,
(34:34):
the Church of Jesus Christ Larday Saints, is to blame
for the high suicide rate.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
He said that part out.
Speaker 11 (34:41):
We actually have it recorded. So anyway, they blame. They
blame Missouri's crime rate. And they literally said, you know,
thousands of black men are being killed in Missouri. And
they said it's because of bad gun laws. And we said,
and I actually had to stop my director from raising
(35:01):
his hands, thing who's killing them? And why isn't it
happening next door? But they literally blamed they literally blamed
the gun laws. And we have much more permissive laws
in Utahn. We're third and third and third list and homicide.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Quite a nice question for you. Were the people who
were sitting in on this were they buying it? Were
they just soaking all this up and believing it.
Speaker 11 (35:28):
Well, it's hard to they didn't. You know, when you
do that, you ask a lot of questions, You get
a lot of audience involvement. There were probably five questions
over this hour and a half. And that is it? So,
I mean, and you know what we accounted for two
of those questions too.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So anyway, there a call to action. So I kind
of like, therefore, we're all going to go out and
do this thing.
Speaker 11 (35:53):
Nope, nope, there was go to the website sign up
and there their mantra would sign up and show up.
Oh the other thing is they literally said the quiet
part out loud. They said, are red shirts and sometimes
moms command actions are not being received well even among
(36:14):
they didn't say democrats, but even among our people. And
so now they've switched to the same exact mantra. But
now they're doing this be smart, their training program, be smart.
And they're wearing green shirts. So that so that when
they see the red shirts, they don't you know, they
don't get people running from them. You know, they're going
(36:37):
to use They set out loud that they want to
use the Michigan shooting as a way to influence churches,
to get into churches, and.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
That, yeah, they take a tragedy and they use that
for political gain. I mean, that is how they work.
And like you say, and they don't really care about
the actual numbers. Are is crime going up? Is crime
going down? Doesn't matter. Just tell story that makes people
feel bad and then say, if you don't want to
feel bad about that kind of thing, you need to
have more gun control loss.
Speaker 11 (37:07):
Yep, somebody did ask about They actually brought up the
NRA and other pro gun training organizations. This was, you know,
one of their followers, and the regional director said, oh no,
the NRA's idea of safe storage is just hide it
under a mattress. And their idea of firearm training is
just shoot everybody, literally, and we have that on recording too.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Oh jeez.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
He actually said that, I'm not surprised to look that
they lie for a living. That's what they do. I'm
glad that you got to get in there. You slipped
in and got I'm sure you recorded the whole thing. Fascinating,
But it's also interesting that they had so few people.
It's like there's really nobody there. There's no impact. I
think they are quickly becoming irrelevant.
Speaker 11 (37:52):
Yeah, yeah, you got. And the key thing is irrelevant
even among their own people. Their own people are running
from them, and uh, you know, and the legislators are
so yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Clark Oppostion, thank you for bringing us up to date
on that. Well done. You guys are doing great work
out there. Thanks Tom, alrighty, you take care. Yeah. Wow.
Kind of not surprised that even among the Democrats they're
not paying attention to the rabbit anti gunners, the gun banners.
(38:30):
I mean, look, they're gun banners, and they'll say that,
they'll actually come out with that, and the fact that
they're saying, well, you know they are ay, they just
say shoot everybody. That's been their whole dealers, raise those
guns for everybody. No, never said that, never said shoot
to everybody, and certainly never said to store your gun
under a mattress for safe storage. For haven's sakes, you know,
(38:50):
it's okase, Like, okay, if you're in control of your gun,
that's one thing. And if you're not, you're not there. Yeah,
you need to have it stored safely. N RA and
NSSF have both said that for many years. Just think
(39:10):
about that last report we had from Clark epotion. They
infiltrated a meeting of the gun banners, the Mom's Demand
Action Group. They're the ones who show up at legislators
legislatures and they have their red shirts on and they
sit there and you look, it makes an impact that
(39:31):
it's a good effect for the cameras. I like the idea.
I've been filtrating these groups, and you know, and you
can join those groups I have. I've joined every town
and Mom's Demand and get their newsletters and get the
email and find that when they're going to have a meeting,
and go to the meeting and take a couple of
(39:52):
your friends. Don't sit together, maybe spread out and maybe
each of you you limit yourself to one question each
so it doesn't look like you're getting it up on them.
And you're sitting in different places, and you ask a
question very innocently, well, what are women supposed to do
(40:15):
when they're vulnerable and they're out on the street and
there's nobody there to take care of them? What do
we recommend? And just throw questions like that out there,
basically just tossing monkey wrenches into the whole thing. I
get it that you're thinking, well, that's not going to
(40:37):
be effective, that's not going to do anything. You know
what we would do, it'd be entertaining and it would eventually,
probably quickly cause them to make a change in what
they do. I don't know if this meeting is like
a fundraiser. I don't know if they even care about
fundraising that much. Honestly, when they've got Bloomberg bucks behind them,
(40:58):
maybe they don't need the money even wonder why are
you even having a meeting, And maybe it's just because
we got to, you know, feed the folks out there,
keep them interested, so that when we want them to
show up at the legislature they will. But I kind
of like the idea, you and two of your buddies,
(41:19):
particularly women, if you can wives, girlfriends, whatever, sisters, bring
them with you and filtrate the meeting, sit at different places. Oh,
that would be a good range report for gun talk.
If you do that, you get some serious ada boys
and at of girls on that one. We can I
(41:41):
like this idea. This is getting to be kind of
a fun Would it be too much to say this
is enemy action? Of course it is. They want to
stomp out our constitutional rights. They want to stop out
the rights that are God given. Because the Second Amendment
is not a great granted to us by the Constitution,
(42:04):
it's a right there's guaranteed by the Constitution. The Second
Amendment simply tells Congress, you have to keep your hands
off of our guns. The right to keep in bear
arms shall not be infringed. It doesn't grant us a right.
(42:25):
It simply tells the government, we already have this right,
and you've got to leave it alone. These people want
to eliminate this right. They want to eliminate your ability
to protect yourself and your family. They openly say it
should be a be illegal for you to protect yourself
(42:48):
and your family. And they make pretty good strides in
some places to get people prosecuted when they do, in
fact protect themselves. So I have no problem in filtrating
their meetings and finding out what they're doing. That's just smart.
If you want to talk about that, or you want
to talk about your guns, give me a holler right now.
(43:10):
We'll blow it right into the after show eight six
y' six talk gun in the meantime this week. Check
it out. Go to xSex dot com. That's the Elon
Musk thing formerly Twitter. I am at gun Talk. Over there,
I'll be posting a number of things with updates to
the stories that we're talking about here. So if you
want to keep up you want to know what's going on,
(43:30):
follow me over all next and follow us on all
the social media platforms because gun talk is everywhere
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