May 8, 2025 • 36 mins
Former Secret Service agent Mike Laverne of TactaLoad joins Ryan Gresham on Gun Talk Nation to talk about wild law enforcement stories, the evolution of tactical gear, and the development of the Flash 5 shotgun stock.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Tisas USA, Vortex Optics, Range Ready Studios, and Ruger.
Get 10% off any order of $150 or more at Brownells with code GUNTALK10.
For more content, subscribe to Gun Talk at guntalktv.com, on Gun Talk's Roku, Apple TV, iOS app, Android app, or find Gun Talk on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, X and guntalk.com. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Tisas USA, Vortex Optics, Range Ready Studios, and Ruger.
Get 10% off any order of $150 or more at Brownells with code GUNTALK10.
For more content, subscribe to Gun Talk at guntalktv.com, on Gun Talk's Roku, Apple TV, iOS app, Android app, or find Gun Talk on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, X and guntalk.com. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You guys do this crap every day.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Yeah, it's no longer interesting anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's just I mean really right, we're just we're sitting
there having some lunch, and I mean talking about all
kinds of wild stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Where what what one story would be a crazy story
for someone to have is like a Tuesday for for
a cop.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is gun Talk Nation.
Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by t Saus, Vortex,
Range Ready, and Ruger. Welcome in to gun Talk Nation
(00:47):
today on Guntalgnation. We got Mike Laverne or Lavernie Laverne Lavernier, Yeah,
from down to bayously from Lafayette, Yeah, Lafayete, Louisiana for
those listening, and we're like, what are these guys talking
about right now?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Cajuns?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Mah yeah, I can do a pretty terrible fake Cajun accent,
but people who aren't from Louisiana don't know it's yeah. Yeah,
So welcome in, man. I mean, you're with tactical load.
But we were just kind of getting into a conversation
about your your background, your your history of started out
in law enforcement, right.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yes, I was a deputy sheriff, with a Lava Parish
Sheriff's Department in Lafia, Louisiana.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And well before we hit record, I was talking about
cops and military guys have great stories. My theory is this,
if if you're a if you're a personal listening to this,
if you're a civilian, if you have ever had a
story that involved a police officer showing up, very possible
(01:54):
it was one of your craziest stories of your life. Like, dude,
this one time and I had to call the cops
and they showed up to whatever, right where the cops
showed up and they saved my butt or whatever. That's
like one of your craziest stories that you tell people. Right,
you guys do this crap every day.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, it's no longer interesting anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's just I mean really right, we're just we're sitting
there having some lunch, and I mean talking about all
kinds of wild stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah. What one story would be a crazy story for
someone to have is like a Tuesday Yeah for a cop.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So yeah, dealing with dogs, police dogs, ye, drug dogs,
dealing with big guys. I mean, people listen to this.
We talk about self defense all the time. Big, big people,
small people, theory. What do you think or a big guy?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, well, I mean pick your battles. I mean there's
always someone bigger than you, and no one is the
end all be all, So.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Don't underestimate the one hundred and twenty pound note exactly
bench pressing five dudes.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
And and and never try to arrest a very mad woman.
Oh really, Oh man, let me tell you. A guy
will punch you in the face. That's that's about it.
Maybe meee you, Maybe a mad lady is going to
bite you, scratch you, claw you, stomp on you. It's
like trying to wrestle with a chainsaw. It's not advised.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Not advised. Is that where you where you come out
with some oc or some taseriness.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
That's when you got to move up the chain a
little bit. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, or bring more friends.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And then you went from law enforcement like kind of
sort of local law enforcement and went federal.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
What about that? So I applied for a job with
the United States Secret Service back in the mid nineties,
and back then it took a very long time to
get to get hired. The process was very lengthy. Yeah,
not just the tests, but the backgrounds and the polygraphs
(03:54):
and It's just it was a lot.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
It seems like it should be right, and you want
the right people for the job for something like that.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, yeah, And you know, at the time, I'm not
sure how it's changed now I've retired, but less than
two percent of applicants would get hired. So it was
very competitive and went through the process and got picked up.
And I started in the late nineties when President Bill
Clinton was still president and I retired in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
So, okay, how was that different from doing local law
enforcement stuff?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
On one side of the coin, it's easier. On the
other side of the coin, it's harder and the easier. Well, so,
if you're a police officer, they have the hardest job
in the world, by the way, mad respect. You're going
to arrest people from you know, jaywalking and all the
way up to murder and everything in between. Where if
you're a federal agent you have a certain set statutes
(04:49):
that you work speeding. You're not messing with that. And
it's it's I hate to call it safer, but it
is because aause traffic stops with the most dangerous things
you can do. You have no idea what you're getting into.
Every single driving stop where when you're a fed and
you you're going to do an a rest warrant, well,
you can time and place it. You know, you have options.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
You actually planned this out.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot less unknown and uh so
you know the the but on the other side of
the coin, the federal took me away from home a lot,
you know, and just and maybe it's just because of
secret service. We travel so much. But you know you're
not coming home, even late at night, you're not coming home.
You're you're gone for weeks at a time, comes months
(05:33):
at a time. You know you're driving a lot, especially
during a campaign season. Those are brutal. And so you know,
good and bad with with everything. Every job's got its ups,
its downs. And there's no perfect job in the world.
You know, every job you got to put your pants
on and go to work.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
So well, I mean, so this podcast is called gun
Talk Dation, So talk about the guns that you used
on the job. Ones I'd love to know one you
liked or even gear guns and gear and whatever, right,
ones you liked, ones you didn't like, why, I mean,
any experiences with that.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
When I started dating myself, we still carried the UZI and.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
For Secret Service.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Secret Service carry the UZI and the Z nine milimeter
and it. You know, people talk some mac about that guy,
but let me tell you it's a workhorse. Really, you're
not gonna break it. You're not. You know, it's it was.
This was obviously a fully auto version, so it was
a closed bolt.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Always was weird to me because and I don't have
any I don't have really any hands on experience with it.
But it's like, it looks like this giant pistol, unwieldy pistol.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It's a giant hunk of steel.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And but there are some that have a foldable like shoulderings.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
So this this one did this. This had the folding stock,
which which was horrible. And uh, and I said closed
that it was an open bolt design because it was
a full auto, so so the ball had to be able.
But that was what made it great. There was no
firing pin. It was a welded dub. It was the
firing pin. And if it failed to fire, you locked
(07:09):
the bolt to the rear, You shook it, maybe took
the took the magazine out to clear it, and shook
it and that was it. Yeah, it was very simple
and it never failed on you, and uh, if you
was a zombie apocalypse, I.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Picked that over kidding.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
What we went to after that was the H and
KMP five And yeah, it's a Cadillac of guns and
it's true, but it failed way more than our roosies did. Uh.
The roller bearings tend to wear out, which actually it's
a good and a bad design. As long as you
don't remove that bolt to clean it, it'll keep firing forever.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Don't mess with it, just don't.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Take it apart and clean it. As soon as you
take the bolt out, the roller bearings fall out. Now
you just broke it. So so that was but it
was a it was a much smoother shooting gun.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I think that is true for a lot of guns.
People want to clean it and cause issues, right, I
mean taking it apart. And then there's the guys who
want to fully disassemble a gun. And it's like there's
a difference between like sort of a field stripping, okay,
where you can get in there, wipe some things down
and then be like, let's see how we can take
this bolt apart, Like don't do that generally.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, don't do that. Yeah, leave most of that to
the engineers. Yeah, because you don't want to take that apart.
It's kind of like letting the magic smoke out of electronics.
Sometimes you can't put it back in there. But but
I love the UZI. The MP five again was nice,
It was fine, But the USI UH was was to
me a never going to fail on you. And and
you know that kind of started me on a on
(08:36):
a path in in law enforcement and in military. The
last thing you want is your gear to fail because
it could be your life. You depend on it. You know.
They think of being out in the wilderness and there's
no store to get parts. If it fails, you're done.
You know, it's just out. Now you're carrying around an
(08:56):
anchor whatever broke.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, you think of, you know, guns a life saving device.
And there's a line that my dad on Gunna Talk.
Grady was coined a lot of lines, but one of
his is when people were trying to decide between two
self defense guns and one is two hundred dollars less.
You know, it's maybe not as good, but they're like,
but I could save some money there. He's like, oh,
so you want to buy a cheap parachute.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It's a good way of putting it. Yeah, yeah, Do
you want the bargain parachute or do you want the
premium parachute?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Give your choice, Give me the Cadillac of parachutes please.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah. So that kind of steered me guided me. When
I came up with the Flash five design was because
you know, the Ouzi was unbreakable, and I wanted something
that was unbreakable. I didn't want to let down my
brothers in the field, So you know, I spent a
(09:53):
dozen years making sure this thing was perfect. We would
make three D printed models. I was telling you earlier
how and so if it was back in the day,
like three or four grand to three D print of
a stock and because the technology was still young, and
we would take it to the range and let all
my swat guy friends and military friends beat on it
(10:13):
until they broke something and they're like, hey, look this failed.
I'm like, okay, So we'd redesign it and change it
and make it better. And we got it to the
point that we weren't even breaking them when they were
the fragile plastic three D printed models. So when we
built the production ones with glassfield nylon, which is incredibly durable,
(10:33):
that's why I'm able to drive over this with my
forklift and my eight thousand found forklift and not scratch it.
And you know, people are like, oh, well, all never
come across a forklift in the field. I'm like, yeah,
you're right, But this is a shotgun stock. And let's
say you're a hunter and you had it leaning against
the back of your truck, and I've seen this happen
before and you forgot it was air and you backed
(10:54):
up and you rolled over your shotgun. That is I've
seen it happen.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Most stocks are going to crunch and and crumble. Yes,
this is a good segue, So we're going to get
into this the tact Load Flash five. It's one of
the cooler products that we've seen lately, and we're gonna
talk more about it right after the break. The rush
of competition shooting may bring us all together, but when
you want an optic that sets you apart, depend on
(11:22):
the Vortex Defender XL target to target, stage to stage.
It's built tough and has a massive sight window that
delivers greater peripheral vision and increasing your speed for follow
up shots so you always come out on top. Of course,
it has the Vortex lifetime warranty, so go check it
out over at Vortexoptics dot com.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
The T.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Sauce carry in nine milimeter is now available in a
double stack version built around T. Sauce's forge slide frame
and barrel that our machine to exacting tolerances. The new
double stack models combine all the features of modern high
passing nineteen eleven pistols with the reputation for quality and
value that the T. Sauce guns are known for. They
(12:06):
also have a polymer grip module with twenty five line prints,
checkering on the front and rear, and molded texture. So
very cool guns at a great price. You can learn
more over at T SASUSA dot com. You've probably heard
about the Ruger RXm pistol. It's the result of a
collaboration between Ruger and Magpole. American made handgun stands out
(12:31):
with a variety of upgraded features, including directmount optic cut
slide so you can put an RMR delta point pro
RMSC cuts with co witness height sites. It also has
their fire control insert. It's a removable stainless steel insert
that's the serialized part of the gun, which enables you
to customize using Magpole Enhanced Grip handgun grips and so
(12:56):
they have different colors, different sizes. You can really customize it.
It's Gen three compatible, so works with magazines that you
may already own, and we've tested it. We shot it
a lot, and we like it. You can learn more
about the Ruger rxmover at Ruger dot com. If you're
listening to this show, you probably like guns, but how
(13:16):
many classes have you take to make you a better shooter?
And that's what we do at range Ready Studios. Range
Ready is a premium firearms training academy in Robert, Louisiana,
and it's basically it's here at the Gun Talk headquarters.
We've got to range out back, actually several ranges. We've
got classroom, we've got a shoot house, and we've got
(13:37):
some of the best instructors around. And I promise when
people come here the reviews are five star. They love
it and they improve on their shooting. You can learn
more at range Readystudios dot com. And I'll tell you
a trick. Sign up for the email list, because you
guys that sign up for the email list are the
first to hear about our new classes and they sell
(13:58):
out quick. Hey, gun Talk listeners, we have something special
that you need to know about. When you go to
Brownel's and you enter gun talk ten at checkout, you'll
get ten percent off any order of one hundred and
fifty bucks or more. Brown Els. You know what they've got.
They've got optics, they've got ammo, they've got guns, they've
got all kinds of stuff. Enter gun talk ten for
(14:19):
ten percent off any order of one hundred and fifty
bucks or more, and Brown Owls is hooking you guys up.
Go check them out. So, Mike, one of the cool
things about shotguns in so many ways, it's one of
the most versatile types of guns. There exists a twelve
gage shotgun. And people may have heard me say this before,
(14:41):
but you can load it with bird shot. You can
load it with buckshot, you can load it with slugs.
You can load really lightloads a one ounce load. You
can do a three and a half inch shell and
pack it in. I mean, you can do turkey loads
that are ridiculous, like they're twenty dollars per shot. The
cops will load bag loads and them, I mean all
(15:02):
this variety of of of loads and so it's it's
great for hunting. I mean you can literally you could
literally kill a grizzly bear with it, and you could
hunt quail with it, and then you can defend your
home inside your home. Great for that, and you could
(15:24):
I don't know, stop a charging you know, something at
one hundred yards with a slug perhaps, But one of
the challenges with a shotgun is the amount of AMMO
it holds. There's there's some with detachable magazines with very
varying dependability with that, but traditionally, I mean most common,
(15:47):
you've got pump shotguns, you've got Semiato shotguns. You've got
the best, the biggest, best selling, the ones ever rimy
to eighty seventy Mosburg five hundred awesome workhorse guns. And
that's what this stock is designed for. So I don't
want to bury the lead. It's called the tack to
Load Flash five five four.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
That's fast loading accessible shell holder and it holds five shells.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Holds five shells in the stock. So obviously this is
a podcast, but we film it so on the video.
If you guys are listening and want to see it,
you can go over to the YouTube channel or Facebook
or whatever and look at at the video of this,
but Mike, you just pull up.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Just grab the brass and pull. It's like a Pez dispenser.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
It's like a Pez dispenser. And it is. It's it's
so this is what when when we were talking about
this a while back, and I was explaining it to
Chris Sono, and this is what everybody's going to say,
because everyone's a skeptic, especially online, it's like, oh, it's
going to break. Oh the shells are going to fall out.
(16:50):
Oh this must be some cheap Chinese crap or whatever
like that. None of that is true. No, I mean
talk about the development of it, because we can back
up a little bit because you were kind of starting
to go into you were three D printing these and
doing iterations and trying to figure out a design, right.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, yeah, you know, trying to build a better mouse trap.
The last thing I wanted is for it to fail
or do something like drop rounds, because we carried something
in the Secret Service that that held rounds inside the
stock and it kept dropping rounds and and even if
it didn't drop rounds, my students I was a farms
(17:26):
instructor and my students would have to fight to get
them out. And it was just it was a nightmare.
So I was like, there's got to be a better way.
So started figuring it out and h and decided to
stack them in the in the stock. In the stock
this way and this way you can put two and
three quarter three inch or three and a half inch shells,
where with the other design you couldn't because it was
a tubular magazine. You only had so much room. Right,
(17:47):
but in mind, you can put all the three different
sized shells, and it would have killed me if they'd
have filled, if they'd have fallen out. So you know,
so we we really worked hard to make sure that
that wouldn't happen. And we beat this thing. I gainst
a tree, Uh you know, did all kind of training,
rolling on the ground and dragging it through the mud
and dropping it. And the first one of the first guys,
(18:09):
I think he was the first guy on YouTube to
review this, he threw his shotgun numerous times in the
airs and had it land It landed on the buttstock
and the barrel sometimes, I credited every time he threw it.
God bless him. What a guy. He sacrificed the shotgun
for for for the for the shot I guess, but yeah,
he couldn't dislodge a round out of it. The first
(18:32):
guy who did an article on it was a farmer,
marine Travis Pike. He beat it against the tractor, tied
til his arms wore out. He could not make it
malfunction when he didn't want to like it. When he
got it right, he loved it.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
He loved it because look, the tactical guys or even
just just people who are in this industry and cover
a lot of products, they see gimmicky things and they're
and they're skeptical. Yeah, I mean, just like we we
joke and I love Chris Reno is mister skeptical. He's like, ah,
what is this? You know? But so if he likes it,
that's kind of saying something.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah yeah, yeah. So he didn't want to like it,
and he he beat it to death just to make
sure to see because he he ended up giving it
five stars. He said it's never coming off of his shotguns. So,
I mean, you know what a wonderful you know, review
that is. You know, to have someone like that thoroughly
(19:26):
meat it to death and say yeah, it's good to go.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I kind of know, though, Mike, how much pez did
you eat you were just developing this. I mean, like,
do you have a whole collection of like Charlie Brown
and you know Darth Vader pez heads.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I had to have a sugar high going to get
this going. Uh. You know shotguns, you're right there. They
are the Swiss Army Knife of firearms that they do everything,
and but they do everything if you have the ammo right,
and that's their achilles heel. They only hold so many
rounds and so having him in the stock. The stocks
are normally hollow, and you know, I tell people stocks
(20:03):
or hollow. Put something useful in there, Put a sandwich
in there, put some bullets, Put something you can use.
So we figured out a way to use that you
unused space and put five rounds in there that they're
not going to get wet and muddy and dirty and
knocked off and lost. In my patrol shotgun. In the
sheriff's office, they had a most neopren side saddle yep,
and forever were they fallen out And you know, you
(20:27):
turn a corner in the car and you hear the
shelves ratting around the floor. You know.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
So the other thing is a side saddle is not ambidextrous. No,
you have to kind of set it up for you.
Somebody can't just pick up your gun and run it,
especially I mean I shoot on left shoulder, left side.
I mean, a side saddle is not going to work
for me, right if I get that from somebody else's gun.
Exactly this because much like why the Mossburg five hundred
(20:54):
top tank safety is ambi it's right on the top
in the center of the gun, this is right on
the bottom, in the center of the stock exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And as you were saying, you know, it's not only
not ambidextrous to have that side saddle on there for you,
but when you try to put that gun in a
gun cabinet, you essentially are putting two guns worth of
guns in that one spot because you have a side
saddle on it and it's taking up space. So with this,
it doesn't take up any space whatsoever. Point you can
keep all your guns in nice and tight yea. And
(21:22):
sometimes even the gun racks in police cars won't accept
one that has a size saddle on it because it
gets in the way. So this was a way to
put the shells in there and not obstruct with any
of your any of your carrying options, or if you
try to slide a gun with a side saddle into
a sleeve or something and it gets caught on it,
if you ever done that, or if you're walking through
the woods hunting and it's getting caught on everything, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Sticking out. Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I also notice that, because this is an actual stock,
you seem to put some thought and design into the stock.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
The rubber butt pad is really nice and soft, and
I mean it has some texturing to it. It's not
just like the stock design was a throwaway.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Correct well, and one of the things that we did
and this comes from you know, me shooting three guns
and me shooting sporting clays and trap and skeet and stuff.
You want a stock that fits your face. And a
lot of manufacturers kind of got away from that and
they went towards saving a dollar, and the stocks were
(22:27):
getting smaller and skinnier and essentially and it was like
you were putting an axe head, you know, to your
face and pulling the trigger and it was just just
pop you, yeah, beating you up and like someone punched
you in the face. So this was is one of
the most comfortable stocks you can shoot. And one of
the biggest compliments I get is from cops after they
shot like, you know, fifty slugs during the day on
(22:48):
training session. They're like, man, normally have a bruised face
from my shotgun. But this didn't bruise my face because
it fits your face better and it doesn't karate chop
your face every time you shoot the guy. So we
did that because you know, I couldn't stand taking a
gun out of you, out of the box branded gun,
going shooting and just donkey kicking my face, you know.
(23:08):
So we wanted it to be very comfortable to shoot,
and and that actually helped. It actually makes people feel
like it has less recoil, yeah, because now the stock's
not pushing your shoulder and your face, it's just pushing
your shoulder.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, it fits better. It fits better well, and frankly,
probably having five rounds in the stock it adds a
little bit of weight which is going to help with
kind of taming the recoil.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, it teams recoil, but it also balances the gun better.
If you ever talk to like an old school trap
and skeet shooter, a lot of times they would put
like lead inside their butt stock to balance the gun
better because the balance gun swings better.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Well, especially if if you have a longer barrel a
little more weight out front.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Correct correct. Yeah, And even though with side saddles, I
mean I tell people, don't get rid of your side saddle.
Side is great, just you know, but add stock add
shelves to the stock too. You know.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Well that's a good point. If you like side saddle,
and maybe you're very proficient at running it, now you
just have five more rounds right on the gun.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Why not just have extras so you know you'll always
have it. And the side saddle you will feel the
weight because it's it's it's forward of you know, your trigger,
unless it's on the stock, and and you'll feel that
extra weight. Where in the stock you'll never feel it
because it's resting on your shoulder. Yeah, so you won't
feel that extra weight. But now, if you're humping it
through the woods, I guess for ten miles you'll feel
(24:26):
the weight. But if you're shooting it, you don't. And
it does absorb a lot of the recoil makes it
feel like it shoots lighter.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
So who's using these? I mean, you guys have been
at it for several years, and you have like actual
like I mean consumers are buying them, but also law enforcement, military, military.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Right, we have police departments across the country that are
using them, both in the lethal shotguns and the orange
less lethal bean bagshot guns as well, and and even
some some some large security forces for like some of
the nuclear power plants and stuff like that. It's pretty
neat stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Talk about different ways to run this, because we were
kind of discussing this off camera of different ways you know,
loading different shells or how people kind of plan this out.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
You know, yeah, I mean in a home defense situation,
you know, it's very common to have buckshot in the
in the in the shotgun magazine and then maybe slugs
in the stock because if the buck shot weren't cutting it,
the slugs will definitely take care of business. But now
with people shooting shorty shells, let's say the Mosburg five
ninety s, so it can it can cycle all the
(25:34):
shells from.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
The it'll cycle like really short ones.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, yeah, that new Mosburg they asked is for the
short shells, I suppose. But so for those what are
the like the short inch and three quarter.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
This will this hold those my stock.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Will not, and there's reason for that. You have to
have a certain amount of length of the shell to
retain it properly. Sure, and they're so short that they
will just fall right out the bottom they want. But
I tell people it doesn't really help you to put
minis in my stock because my stock will only hold
five shells. I don't care how long they are. So
(26:12):
minis are made for tubular magazines. That's where they saw you.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Get the benefit the benefit of the mini.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Correct, So I tell people, fill up your magazine with miniss.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
It'll hold your tubular magazine, and.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Then put five of full power shells dogs two and three,
three inch three whatever you want, but put the bid
because if you haven't solved the problem with your fifteen minis,
maybe you need five three inch slugs. I'm just saying,
you know it, it's time to turn up the heat
a little bit. So that's cool, you know. And even
if you have like one of those adapters where you
(26:42):
can only shoot shorties in there, well, the chamber doesn't
have the adapter in it, so so you can still
load them combat load them one at a time in
the chamber. Sure, So I tell people still put the
full size ones in the stock, even if you've got
the shorty adapter in the in the shotgun. So either way,
you know, it's it adds to your capacity.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Talk about there's a new gun that Mosburg brought out
last week and you have ideas.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yes, the nine ninety after Shock. What a cool little gun.
It's their semi auto version of their Shockwave.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
The any other weapon, Yeah, bird head handle the firearm. Yeah,
it's a fire it's a firearm.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
You want to hear a funny story when they brought
out the Mosburg Shockwave original one whatever. That was four five,
six years ago a while. Yeah, we were at an
industry event and they were giving out the best awards
for like a rifle of the year, pistol of the year,
shotgun of the year, and Mossburg won for the Shockwave,
(27:47):
and they were like twenty percent of the room was
laughing their butts off, going, it's not a shotgun, it'sn't
any other weapon, right, and like kind of all smiling
and winking like this is this hilarious that they won.
It's not a shotgun. I'm telling you.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Tell the ATF just scratch shotguns, put firearm, that's what
it is.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, it's a firearm, don't worry about it. But so
it's it's a shorty. But now that they have it
in semi auto, so.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
It's a semi auto shotgun that has see the reason
why I don't the reason why the Flash five is
predominantly made for pump shotguns is most of your gas
operated shotguns have a large action spring inside the stock
to help assist the bulk to go forward right, and
that takes up a lot of rooms. Some of them
are some of them are eight nine is as long.
(28:35):
Some of them are the whole length of the stock,
and so it takes up all the space inside the stock.
So I can't add an internal magazine to those, gotcha.
But Mospur came up with the nine ninety and it
doesn't have anything in the stock. All of its operating
components are in the fore end, similar to the I guess.
I don't know if it's the same operating systems of
thirteen O one, but but that's similar. Yeah, bread of
(28:56):
thirteen one also doesn't have anything in the stock, So
so whatever voodoo magic they used that happen. So that's
why they have the bird's head grip on that semi
automatic shotgun. Well, if you buy their eighteen and a
half inch barrel version, it's legal to stick a stock
on there. Yeah, and it's shotgun, No, it's it's it's
no different than your eighteen and a half inch barrel
(29:17):
average eighty eight. So slap a stock on there and
and go to town. I mean nothing, not knocking birds
had grips at all. But you know, but I'd want
more AMMO for my shotgun.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
So well. The other thing is most people, if you
haven't shot a shotgun like that, it's it's hard to
hit what you're aiming at because you're kind of not aiming,
you know, I mean unless you have an aiming device.
A laser really helpful on something like that. But they're
typically shooting it sort of from the hip. And if
(29:50):
I guarantee you you bring out ten shooters and load
them up and let them all shoot at a target
that's fifteen feet away, they're all going to shoot high.
They're all they're going to drop their their rear hand
and the muzzle is going to raise up and they're
going to shoot over the target. Most people, unless you,
I mean, if you practice with a lot, you could
get good. Sure, if you're press with anything, you'd get
(30:11):
used to how this works. But putting a stock on it,
now you can actually shoulder it, you can point it,
you can aim and be way more effective.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Sure, well, you have two points of movement in those
short ones, so where if it's shouldered, you have one
point of movement. That's the end of the barrel. So yeah,
but no, I'm very very excited about that. What fantastic
innovation they've come out with with that gun. And I
cannot wait to get my hands on one and slap
a flash five on it and take it to the
range and just have a blast.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I mean yeah, because I mean, what is an eighteen inch?
I guess the mag tube is going to be the
whole length of the barrel.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
On a short one. On the eighteen inch though, no, no,
on the fourteen and a half inch, yes, okay, but
on the eighteen and a half inch, no, eighteen just
sticks out a little just for the barrels extensive okay, yeah, correct.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So it's going to hold what four or five in.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
The it's a five plus one okay, so.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Six in the gun plus five in the stock. I
like that.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Oh yeah, like that a lot. Oh I cannot wait
and you know, one of the questions we get asked
the most is well, can you make it for this
or that or And it's usually a shock and we
can't make it far because of that limitation of the
guess system. Stock is in the stock. So yeah, so
and you know, yeah, could we maybe engineer a replacement,
(31:26):
you know, spraying inside the stock action spraying? We probably could,
But I don't really want to impede on these gun
manufacturers perfection that they've already made, you know, and try
to change things.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Well, you want to keep it easy to install too,
I mean, and to be honest with you know, the
audience when people are when accessory makers and especially after
market accessories where they're making products, they look at what's
the number of them out there. It's like pistols. Okay,
if you're going to make a set of sites that
fit a particular type of pistol, I can guarantee it's
(32:01):
gonna be for the glock, it's gonna be for maybe
an mm P, it's gonna be for now at this point,
a sig B through sixty five. Probably because there's just
so many of them out there. They're not making sights
for the I don't know Charter Arms, Bulldog, that's not
the first one. They're doing it for shotguns, Revy Todight seventy,
(32:25):
Mosburg five hundred. There's how many of them out there?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
There's twenty one million?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah there, Yeah, you probably everyone listened to this is like, yeah,
I got one.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I probably you.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Probably own one, right. If you don't, you should. It's
kind of like owning a ten twenty two or you know,
a Smith West and J frame. It's just like, what
this is a right of passage. If you're going to
call yourself a gun owner, you probably need to own
one of these shotguns.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, and a lot of people. Let's say you're you
wanted to start duck hunting, Well, you're not going to
go buy the fifteen hundred nineteen hundred dollars super Black
Eagle or whatever to start duck hunting on your first try.
You're gonna buy an eight seventy or a five hundred,
and you're gonna go out there and you're try it.
If you like it, you're going to move up to
the Semiato shotguns later on. But in the meantime, you
got your pump which is doing fine. But when you've
(33:06):
moved up to the other gun, the pump music gets
relegated to home defense, gets put in the corner, put
in the closet. That's your home defense go to now,
and let me tell you, when something goes bumping the night,
you're gonna be wearing your boxers, not your kit. You're
not gonna have all your.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Gear, and it's going to be in your hands. Everything
you got is you're gonna pick up. You know, your
your home defense gun. And most people, maybe not all
of you guys, if you live by yourself, this might
even be the case. But a lot of people, if
they have a home defense shotgun, the tubular magazine is
going to be fully loaded and there's gonna be nothing
in the chamber most likely. And I know that means
(33:40):
you're down one round, but it's a safer way long
term to keep the gun absolutely stored at the ready
in your house. So now, okay, yeah, you're down one
round if you should store it that way, But if
you've got these rounds in the stock that are very
quick to get out and load, you've got an extra five.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, like you said, you're not getting getting your your
shell belt on when you have to go inspect of
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yep, you're gonna grab the shotgun and your a fight
with what you got and uh and this just gives
you that because once your shotgun is empty, it is.
It's now a baseball bat.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It's a decent club.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
It's a decent club, granted. Yeah. And my stocks so
strong that it would make a very good club. You
should put that.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
You should be like, hey, listen, if you if you
use up all the shells, this thing will bludgeon someone.
The bludgeon the bludge of Mattic.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Five thousand, right right.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
You know, if you don't like it for a stock,
you can just you know, eat some of it so
it's easy to install, right. I mean, you have a
lot of people that are buying these and just swapping
them out on their gun.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Absolutely. You know. The hardest part is swopping this thing
out on your shotgun is taking your old one off.
I can't help you there. I don't know how the
manufacturer mounted it to your gun, but you got to
get that thing off yourself. But once it's off, I
give you the tool in the box to put mine
on your shotgun so you don't have to go hunting
for a tool. Nothing worse than a new toy. No tool.
I hate that, you know, So I give you the
(34:59):
tool to put it all. You just need a Phillip screwdriver.
Besides that, the instructions are plain this day. But if
that you still have a problem with that. I have
videos on the website and on YouTube, and I explain
how to and I go through it step by step.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
So they might find it in a dealer, but they
can also find it online right correct.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
They can go to tack tooload dot com, tack to load,
tact a lad tack pretty ezy and hard. They can
go to Amazon. It's on there as well. Okay, we
don't have all the colors on Amazon or the website. Amazon.
If you have Prime is free shipping. On my website
is free shipping. So if you don't have Prime and
you want free shipping, go to my website. I give
(35:37):
you free shipping.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I'm kind of surprise because most people they're just like, dude, sorry,
we can't do free shipping. We're not Amazon.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yeah, and you know I get that, and I just
want I hate it when like people like, oh, it's
go to Amazon, it's free shipping, Like I don't have prime,
and then I'm all depressed because I didn't get my
free shipping. So I'm offering people free shipping on my
website so it makes it easier. Yeah, it does.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Cool. All right. Well that's it man, Mike, thanks for
being on with us.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I enjoyed it, and now we'll have him back on.
We'll have them tell lots of stories about you know,
bad guys falling through ceilings and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
All the good stories are are relegated to how tall
your glass of bourbon is.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, we'll get together and drink about it. Tell some
lies south. We don't let the truth get in the
way of a good story.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Absolutely, all right.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
That's it for us, guys, go check them out Tactic Load.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
We like it.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
We think it's been pretty cool, and we'll see you
next time on gun Dog Nation.
You guys do this crap every day.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Yeah, it's no longer interesting anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's just I mean really right, we're just we're sitting
there having some lunch, and I mean talking about all
kinds of wild stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Where what what one story would be a crazy story
for someone to have is like a Tuesday for for
a cop.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is gun Talk Nation.
Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by t Saus, Vortex,
Range Ready, and Ruger. Welcome in to gun Talk Nation
(00:47):
today on Guntalgnation. We got Mike Laverne or Lavernie Laverne Lavernier, Yeah,
from down to bayously from Lafayette, Yeah, Lafayete, Louisiana for
those listening, and we're like, what are these guys talking
about right now?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Cajuns?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Mah yeah, I can do a pretty terrible fake Cajun accent,
but people who aren't from Louisiana don't know it's yeah. Yeah,
So welcome in, man. I mean, you're with tactical load.
But we were just kind of getting into a conversation
about your your background, your your history of started out
in law enforcement, right.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yes, I was a deputy sheriff, with a Lava Parish
Sheriff's Department in Lafia, Louisiana.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And well before we hit record, I was talking about
cops and military guys have great stories. My theory is this,
if if you're a if you're a personal listening to this,
if you're a civilian, if you have ever had a
story that involved a police officer showing up, very possible
(01:54):
it was one of your craziest stories of your life. Like, dude,
this one time and I had to call the cops
and they showed up to whatever, right where the cops
showed up and they saved my butt or whatever. That's
like one of your craziest stories that you tell people. Right,
you guys do this crap every day.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, it's no longer interesting anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's just I mean really right, we're just we're sitting
there having some lunch, and I mean talking about all
kinds of wild stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah. What one story would be a crazy story for
someone to have is like a Tuesday Yeah for a cop.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So yeah, dealing with dogs, police dogs, ye, drug dogs,
dealing with big guys. I mean, people listen to this.
We talk about self defense all the time. Big, big people,
small people, theory. What do you think or a big guy?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, well, I mean pick your battles. I mean there's
always someone bigger than you, and no one is the
end all be all, So.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Don't underestimate the one hundred and twenty pound note exactly
bench pressing five dudes.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
And and and never try to arrest a very mad woman.
Oh really, Oh man, let me tell you. A guy
will punch you in the face. That's that's about it.
Maybe meee you, Maybe a mad lady is going to
bite you, scratch you, claw you, stomp on you. It's
like trying to wrestle with a chainsaw. It's not advised.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Not advised. Is that where you where you come out
with some oc or some taseriness.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
That's when you got to move up the chain a
little bit. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, or bring more friends.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And then you went from law enforcement like kind of
sort of local law enforcement and went federal.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
What about that? So I applied for a job with
the United States Secret Service back in the mid nineties,
and back then it took a very long time to
get to get hired. The process was very lengthy. Yeah,
not just the tests, but the backgrounds and the polygraphs
(03:54):
and It's just it was a lot.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
It seems like it should be right, and you want
the right people for the job for something like that.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, yeah, And you know, at the time, I'm not
sure how it's changed now I've retired, but less than
two percent of applicants would get hired. So it was
very competitive and went through the process and got picked up.
And I started in the late nineties when President Bill
Clinton was still president and I retired in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
So, okay, how was that different from doing local law
enforcement stuff?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
On one side of the coin, it's easier. On the
other side of the coin, it's harder and the easier. Well, so,
if you're a police officer, they have the hardest job
in the world, by the way, mad respect. You're going
to arrest people from you know, jaywalking and all the
way up to murder and everything in between. Where if
you're a federal agent you have a certain set statutes
(04:49):
that you work speeding. You're not messing with that. And
it's it's I hate to call it safer, but it
is because aause traffic stops with the most dangerous things
you can do. You have no idea what you're getting into.
Every single driving stop where when you're a fed and
you you're going to do an a rest warrant, well,
you can time and place it. You know, you have options.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
You actually planned this out.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot less unknown and uh so
you know the the but on the other side of
the coin, the federal took me away from home a lot,
you know, and just and maybe it's just because of
secret service. We travel so much. But you know you're
not coming home, even late at night, you're not coming home.
You're you're gone for weeks at a time, comes months
(05:33):
at a time. You know you're driving a lot, especially
during a campaign season. Those are brutal. And so you know,
good and bad with with everything. Every job's got its ups,
its downs. And there's no perfect job in the world.
You know, every job you got to put your pants
on and go to work.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
So well, I mean, so this podcast is called gun
Talk Dation, So talk about the guns that you used
on the job. Ones I'd love to know one you
liked or even gear guns and gear and whatever, right,
ones you liked, ones you didn't like, why, I mean,
any experiences with that.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
When I started dating myself, we still carried the UZI and.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
For Secret Service.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Secret Service carry the UZI and the Z nine milimeter
and it. You know, people talk some mac about that guy,
but let me tell you it's a workhorse. Really, you're
not gonna break it. You're not. You know, it's it was.
This was obviously a fully auto version, so it was
a closed bolt.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Always was weird to me because and I don't have
any I don't have really any hands on experience with it.
But it's like, it looks like this giant pistol, unwieldy pistol.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It's a giant hunk of steel.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And but there are some that have a foldable like shoulderings.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
So this this one did this. This had the folding stock,
which which was horrible. And uh, and I said closed
that it was an open bolt design because it was
a full auto, so so the ball had to be able.
But that was what made it great. There was no
firing pin. It was a welded dub. It was the
firing pin. And if it failed to fire, you locked
(07:09):
the bolt to the rear, You shook it, maybe took
the took the magazine out to clear it, and shook
it and that was it. Yeah, it was very simple
and it never failed on you, and uh, if you
was a zombie apocalypse, I.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Picked that over kidding.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
What we went to after that was the H and
KMP five And yeah, it's a Cadillac of guns and
it's true, but it failed way more than our roosies did. Uh.
The roller bearings tend to wear out, which actually it's
a good and a bad design. As long as you
don't remove that bolt to clean it, it'll keep firing forever.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Don't mess with it, just don't.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Take it apart and clean it. As soon as you
take the bolt out, the roller bearings fall out. Now
you just broke it. So so that was but it
was a it was a much smoother shooting gun.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I think that is true for a lot of guns.
People want to clean it and cause issues, right, I
mean taking it apart. And then there's the guys who
want to fully disassemble a gun. And it's like there's
a difference between like sort of a field stripping, okay,
where you can get in there, wipe some things down
and then be like, let's see how we can take
this bolt apart, Like don't do that generally.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, don't do that. Yeah, leave most of that to
the engineers. Yeah, because you don't want to take that apart.
It's kind of like letting the magic smoke out of electronics.
Sometimes you can't put it back in there. But but
I love the UZI. The MP five again was nice,
It was fine, But the USI UH was was to
me a never going to fail on you. And and
you know that kind of started me on a on
(08:36):
a path in in law enforcement and in military. The
last thing you want is your gear to fail because
it could be your life. You depend on it. You know.
They think of being out in the wilderness and there's
no store to get parts. If it fails, you're done.
You know, it's just out. Now you're carrying around an
(08:56):
anchor whatever broke.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, you think of, you know, guns a life saving device.
And there's a line that my dad on Gunna Talk.
Grady was coined a lot of lines, but one of
his is when people were trying to decide between two
self defense guns and one is two hundred dollars less.
You know, it's maybe not as good, but they're like,
but I could save some money there. He's like, oh,
so you want to buy a cheap parachute.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It's a good way of putting it. Yeah, yeah, Do
you want the bargain parachute or do you want the
premium parachute?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Give your choice, Give me the Cadillac of parachutes please.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah. So that kind of steered me guided me. When
I came up with the Flash five design was because
you know, the Ouzi was unbreakable, and I wanted something
that was unbreakable. I didn't want to let down my
brothers in the field, So you know, I spent a
(09:53):
dozen years making sure this thing was perfect. We would
make three D printed models. I was telling you earlier
how and so if it was back in the day,
like three or four grand to three D print of
a stock and because the technology was still young, and
we would take it to the range and let all
my swat guy friends and military friends beat on it
(10:13):
until they broke something and they're like, hey, look this failed.
I'm like, okay, So we'd redesign it and change it
and make it better. And we got it to the
point that we weren't even breaking them when they were
the fragile plastic three D printed models. So when we
built the production ones with glassfield nylon, which is incredibly durable,
(10:33):
that's why I'm able to drive over this with my
forklift and my eight thousand found forklift and not scratch it.
And you know, people are like, oh, well, all never
come across a forklift in the field. I'm like, yeah,
you're right, But this is a shotgun stock. And let's
say you're a hunter and you had it leaning against
the back of your truck, and I've seen this happen
before and you forgot it was air and you backed
(10:54):
up and you rolled over your shotgun. That is I've
seen it happen.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Most stocks are going to crunch and and crumble. Yes,
this is a good segue, So we're going to get
into this the tact Load Flash five. It's one of
the cooler products that we've seen lately, and we're gonna
talk more about it right after the break. The rush
of competition shooting may bring us all together, but when
you want an optic that sets you apart, depend on
(11:22):
the Vortex Defender XL target to target, stage to stage.
It's built tough and has a massive sight window that
delivers greater peripheral vision and increasing your speed for follow
up shots so you always come out on top. Of course,
it has the Vortex lifetime warranty, so go check it
out over at Vortexoptics dot com.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
The T.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Sauce carry in nine milimeter is now available in a
double stack version built around T. Sauce's forge slide frame
and barrel that our machine to exacting tolerances. The new
double stack models combine all the features of modern high
passing nineteen eleven pistols with the reputation for quality and
value that the T. Sauce guns are known for. They
(12:06):
also have a polymer grip module with twenty five line prints,
checkering on the front and rear, and molded texture. So
very cool guns at a great price. You can learn
more over at T SASUSA dot com. You've probably heard
about the Ruger RXm pistol. It's the result of a
collaboration between Ruger and Magpole. American made handgun stands out
(12:31):
with a variety of upgraded features, including directmount optic cut
slide so you can put an RMR delta point pro
RMSC cuts with co witness height sites. It also has
their fire control insert. It's a removable stainless steel insert
that's the serialized part of the gun, which enables you
to customize using Magpole Enhanced Grip handgun grips and so
(12:56):
they have different colors, different sizes. You can really customize it.
It's Gen three compatible, so works with magazines that you
may already own, and we've tested it. We shot it
a lot, and we like it. You can learn more
about the Ruger rxmover at Ruger dot com. If you're
listening to this show, you probably like guns, but how
(13:16):
many classes have you take to make you a better shooter?
And that's what we do at range Ready Studios. Range
Ready is a premium firearms training academy in Robert, Louisiana,
and it's basically it's here at the Gun Talk headquarters.
We've got to range out back, actually several ranges. We've
got classroom, we've got a shoot house, and we've got
(13:37):
some of the best instructors around. And I promise when
people come here the reviews are five star. They love
it and they improve on their shooting. You can learn
more at range Readystudios dot com. And I'll tell you
a trick. Sign up for the email list, because you
guys that sign up for the email list are the
first to hear about our new classes and they sell
(13:58):
out quick. Hey, gun Talk listeners, we have something special
that you need to know about. When you go to
Brownel's and you enter gun talk ten at checkout, you'll
get ten percent off any order of one hundred and
fifty bucks or more. Brown Els. You know what they've got.
They've got optics, they've got ammo, they've got guns, they've
got all kinds of stuff. Enter gun talk ten for
(14:19):
ten percent off any order of one hundred and fifty
bucks or more, and Brown Owls is hooking you guys up.
Go check them out. So, Mike, one of the cool
things about shotguns in so many ways, it's one of
the most versatile types of guns. There exists a twelve
gage shotgun. And people may have heard me say this before,
(14:41):
but you can load it with bird shot. You can
load it with buckshot, you can load it with slugs.
You can load really lightloads a one ounce load. You
can do a three and a half inch shell and
pack it in. I mean, you can do turkey loads
that are ridiculous, like they're twenty dollars per shot. The
cops will load bag loads and them, I mean all
(15:02):
this variety of of of loads and so it's it's
great for hunting. I mean you can literally you could
literally kill a grizzly bear with it, and you could
hunt quail with it, and then you can defend your
home inside your home. Great for that, and you could
(15:24):
I don't know, stop a charging you know, something at
one hundred yards with a slug perhaps, But one of
the challenges with a shotgun is the amount of AMMO
it holds. There's there's some with detachable magazines with very
varying dependability with that, but traditionally, I mean most common,
(15:47):
you've got pump shotguns, you've got Semiato shotguns. You've got
the best, the biggest, best selling, the ones ever rimy
to eighty seventy Mosburg five hundred awesome workhorse guns. And
that's what this stock is designed for. So I don't
want to bury the lead. It's called the tack to
Load Flash five five four.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
That's fast loading accessible shell holder and it holds five shells.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Holds five shells in the stock. So obviously this is
a podcast, but we film it so on the video.
If you guys are listening and want to see it,
you can go over to the YouTube channel or Facebook
or whatever and look at at the video of this,
but Mike, you just pull up.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Just grab the brass and pull. It's like a Pez dispenser.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
It's like a Pez dispenser. And it is. It's it's
so this is what when when we were talking about
this a while back, and I was explaining it to
Chris Sono, and this is what everybody's going to say,
because everyone's a skeptic, especially online, it's like, oh, it's
going to break. Oh the shells are going to fall out.
(16:50):
Oh this must be some cheap Chinese crap or whatever
like that. None of that is true. No, I mean
talk about the development of it, because we can back
up a little bit because you were kind of starting
to go into you were three D printing these and
doing iterations and trying to figure out a design, right.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, yeah, you know, trying to build a better mouse trap.
The last thing I wanted is for it to fail
or do something like drop rounds, because we carried something
in the Secret Service that that held rounds inside the
stock and it kept dropping rounds and and even if
it didn't drop rounds, my students I was a farms
(17:26):
instructor and my students would have to fight to get
them out. And it was just it was a nightmare.
So I was like, there's got to be a better way.
So started figuring it out and h and decided to
stack them in the in the stock. In the stock
this way and this way you can put two and
three quarter three inch or three and a half inch shells,
where with the other design you couldn't because it was
a tubular magazine. You only had so much room. Right,
(17:47):
but in mind, you can put all the three different
sized shells, and it would have killed me if they'd
have filled, if they'd have fallen out. So you know,
so we we really worked hard to make sure that
that wouldn't happen. And we beat this thing. I gainst
a tree, Uh you know, did all kind of training,
rolling on the ground and dragging it through the mud
and dropping it. And the first one of the first guys,
(18:09):
I think he was the first guy on YouTube to
review this, he threw his shotgun numerous times in the
airs and had it land It landed on the buttstock
and the barrel sometimes, I credited every time he threw it.
God bless him. What a guy. He sacrificed the shotgun
for for for the for the shot I guess, but yeah,
he couldn't dislodge a round out of it. The first
(18:32):
guy who did an article on it was a farmer,
marine Travis Pike. He beat it against the tractor, tied
til his arms wore out. He could not make it
malfunction when he didn't want to like it. When he
got it right, he loved it.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
He loved it because look, the tactical guys or even
just just people who are in this industry and cover
a lot of products, they see gimmicky things and they're
and they're skeptical. Yeah, I mean, just like we we
joke and I love Chris Reno is mister skeptical. He's like, ah,
what is this? You know? But so if he likes it,
that's kind of saying something.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah yeah, yeah. So he didn't want to like it,
and he he beat it to death just to make
sure to see because he he ended up giving it
five stars. He said it's never coming off of his shotguns. So,
I mean, you know what a wonderful you know, review
that is. You know, to have someone like that thoroughly
(19:26):
meat it to death and say yeah, it's good to go.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I kind of know, though, Mike, how much pez did
you eat you were just developing this. I mean, like,
do you have a whole collection of like Charlie Brown
and you know Darth Vader pez heads.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I had to have a sugar high going to get
this going. Uh. You know shotguns, you're right there. They
are the Swiss Army Knife of firearms that they do everything,
and but they do everything if you have the ammo right,
and that's their achilles heel. They only hold so many
rounds and so having him in the stock. The stocks
are normally hollow, and you know, I tell people stocks
(20:03):
or hollow. Put something useful in there, Put a sandwich
in there, put some bullets, Put something you can use.
So we figured out a way to use that you
unused space and put five rounds in there that they're
not going to get wet and muddy and dirty and
knocked off and lost. In my patrol shotgun. In the
sheriff's office, they had a most neopren side saddle yep,
and forever were they fallen out And you know, you
(20:27):
turn a corner in the car and you hear the
shelves ratting around the floor. You know.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
So the other thing is a side saddle is not ambidextrous. No,
you have to kind of set it up for you.
Somebody can't just pick up your gun and run it,
especially I mean I shoot on left shoulder, left side.
I mean, a side saddle is not going to work
for me, right if I get that from somebody else's gun.
Exactly this because much like why the Mossburg five hundred
(20:54):
top tank safety is ambi it's right on the top
in the center of the gun, this is right on
the bottom, in the center of the stock exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And as you were saying, you know, it's not only
not ambidextrous to have that side saddle on there for you,
but when you try to put that gun in a
gun cabinet, you essentially are putting two guns worth of
guns in that one spot because you have a side
saddle on it and it's taking up space. So with this,
it doesn't take up any space whatsoever. Point you can
keep all your guns in nice and tight yea. And
(21:22):
sometimes even the gun racks in police cars won't accept
one that has a size saddle on it because it
gets in the way. So this was a way to
put the shells in there and not obstruct with any
of your any of your carrying options, or if you
try to slide a gun with a side saddle into
a sleeve or something and it gets caught on it,
if you ever done that, or if you're walking through
the woods hunting and it's getting caught on everything, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Sticking out. Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I also notice that, because this is an actual stock,
you seem to put some thought and design into the stock.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
The rubber butt pad is really nice and soft, and
I mean it has some texturing to it. It's not
just like the stock design was a throwaway.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Correct well, and one of the things that we did
and this comes from you know, me shooting three guns
and me shooting sporting clays and trap and skeet and stuff.
You want a stock that fits your face. And a
lot of manufacturers kind of got away from that and
they went towards saving a dollar, and the stocks were
(22:27):
getting smaller and skinnier and essentially and it was like
you were putting an axe head, you know, to your
face and pulling the trigger and it was just just
pop you, yeah, beating you up and like someone punched
you in the face. So this was is one of
the most comfortable stocks you can shoot. And one of
the biggest compliments I get is from cops after they
shot like, you know, fifty slugs during the day on
(22:48):
training session. They're like, man, normally have a bruised face
from my shotgun. But this didn't bruise my face because
it fits your face better and it doesn't karate chop
your face every time you shoot the guy. So we
did that because you know, I couldn't stand taking a
gun out of you, out of the box branded gun,
going shooting and just donkey kicking my face, you know.
(23:08):
So we wanted it to be very comfortable to shoot,
and and that actually helped. It actually makes people feel
like it has less recoil, yeah, because now the stock's
not pushing your shoulder and your face, it's just pushing
your shoulder.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, it fits better. It fits better well, and frankly,
probably having five rounds in the stock it adds a
little bit of weight which is going to help with
kind of taming the recoil.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, it teams recoil, but it also balances the gun better.
If you ever talk to like an old school trap
and skeet shooter, a lot of times they would put
like lead inside their butt stock to balance the gun
better because the balance gun swings better.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Well, especially if if you have a longer barrel a
little more weight out front.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Correct correct. Yeah, And even though with side saddles, I
mean I tell people, don't get rid of your side saddle.
Side is great, just you know, but add stock add
shelves to the stock too. You know.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Well that's a good point. If you like side saddle,
and maybe you're very proficient at running it, now you
just have five more rounds right on the gun.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Why not just have extras so you know you'll always
have it. And the side saddle you will feel the
weight because it's it's it's forward of you know, your trigger,
unless it's on the stock, and and you'll feel that
extra weight. Where in the stock you'll never feel it
because it's resting on your shoulder. Yeah, so you won't
feel that extra weight. But now, if you're humping it
through the woods, I guess for ten miles you'll feel
(24:26):
the weight. But if you're shooting it, you don't. And
it does absorb a lot of the recoil makes it
feel like it shoots lighter.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
So who's using these? I mean, you guys have been
at it for several years, and you have like actual
like I mean consumers are buying them, but also law enforcement, military, military.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Right, we have police departments across the country that are
using them, both in the lethal shotguns and the orange
less lethal bean bagshot guns as well, and and even
some some some large security forces for like some of
the nuclear power plants and stuff like that. It's pretty
neat stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Talk about different ways to run this, because we were
kind of discussing this off camera of different ways you know,
loading different shells or how people kind of plan this out.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
You know, yeah, I mean in a home defense situation,
you know, it's very common to have buckshot in the
in the in the shotgun magazine and then maybe slugs
in the stock because if the buck shot weren't cutting it,
the slugs will definitely take care of business. But now
with people shooting shorty shells, let's say the Mosburg five
ninety s, so it can it can cycle all the
(25:34):
shells from.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
The it'll cycle like really short ones.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, yeah, that new Mosburg they asked is for the
short shells, I suppose. But so for those what are
the like the short inch and three quarter.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
This will this hold those my stock.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Will not, and there's reason for that. You have to
have a certain amount of length of the shell to
retain it properly. Sure, and they're so short that they
will just fall right out the bottom they want. But
I tell people it doesn't really help you to put
minis in my stock because my stock will only hold
five shells. I don't care how long they are. So
(26:12):
minis are made for tubular magazines. That's where they saw you.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Get the benefit the benefit of the mini.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Correct, So I tell people, fill up your magazine with miniss.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
It'll hold your tubular magazine, and.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Then put five of full power shells dogs two and three,
three inch three whatever you want, but put the bid
because if you haven't solved the problem with your fifteen minis,
maybe you need five three inch slugs. I'm just saying,
you know it, it's time to turn up the heat
a little bit. So that's cool, you know. And even
if you have like one of those adapters where you
(26:42):
can only shoot shorties in there, well, the chamber doesn't
have the adapter in it, so so you can still
load them combat load them one at a time in
the chamber. Sure, So I tell people still put the
full size ones in the stock, even if you've got
the shorty adapter in the in the shotgun. So either way,
you know, it's it adds to your capacity.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Talk about there's a new gun that Mosburg brought out
last week and you have ideas.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yes, the nine ninety after Shock. What a cool little gun.
It's their semi auto version of their Shockwave.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
The any other weapon, Yeah, bird head handle the firearm. Yeah,
it's a fire it's a firearm.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
You want to hear a funny story when they brought
out the Mosburg Shockwave original one whatever. That was four five,
six years ago a while. Yeah, we were at an
industry event and they were giving out the best awards
for like a rifle of the year, pistol of the year,
shotgun of the year, and Mossburg won for the Shockwave,
(27:47):
and they were like twenty percent of the room was
laughing their butts off, going, it's not a shotgun, it'sn't
any other weapon, right, and like kind of all smiling
and winking like this is this hilarious that they won.
It's not a shotgun. I'm telling you.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Tell the ATF just scratch shotguns, put firearm, that's what
it is.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, it's a firearm, don't worry about it. But so
it's it's a shorty. But now that they have it
in semi auto, so.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
It's a semi auto shotgun that has see the reason
why I don't the reason why the Flash five is
predominantly made for pump shotguns is most of your gas
operated shotguns have a large action spring inside the stock
to help assist the bulk to go forward right, and
that takes up a lot of rooms. Some of them
are some of them are eight nine is as long.
(28:35):
Some of them are the whole length of the stock,
and so it takes up all the space inside the stock.
So I can't add an internal magazine to those, gotcha.
But Mospur came up with the nine ninety and it
doesn't have anything in the stock. All of its operating
components are in the fore end, similar to the I guess.
I don't know if it's the same operating systems of
thirteen O one, but but that's similar. Yeah, bread of
(28:56):
thirteen one also doesn't have anything in the stock, So
so whatever voodoo magic they used that happen. So that's
why they have the bird's head grip on that semi
automatic shotgun. Well, if you buy their eighteen and a
half inch barrel version, it's legal to stick a stock
on there. Yeah, and it's shotgun, No, it's it's it's
no different than your eighteen and a half inch barrel
(29:17):
average eighty eight. So slap a stock on there and
and go to town. I mean nothing, not knocking birds
had grips at all. But you know, but I'd want
more AMMO for my shotgun.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
So well. The other thing is most people, if you
haven't shot a shotgun like that, it's it's hard to
hit what you're aiming at because you're kind of not aiming,
you know, I mean unless you have an aiming device.
A laser really helpful on something like that. But they're
typically shooting it sort of from the hip. And if
(29:50):
I guarantee you you bring out ten shooters and load
them up and let them all shoot at a target
that's fifteen feet away, they're all going to shoot high.
They're all they're going to drop their their rear hand
and the muzzle is going to raise up and they're
going to shoot over the target. Most people, unless you,
I mean, if you practice with a lot, you could
get good. Sure, if you're press with anything, you'd get
(30:11):
used to how this works. But putting a stock on it,
now you can actually shoulder it, you can point it,
you can aim and be way more effective.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Sure, well, you have two points of movement in those
short ones, so where if it's shouldered, you have one
point of movement. That's the end of the barrel. So yeah,
but no, I'm very very excited about that. What fantastic
innovation they've come out with with that gun. And I
cannot wait to get my hands on one and slap
a flash five on it and take it to the
range and just have a blast.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I mean yeah, because I mean, what is an eighteen inch?
I guess the mag tube is going to be the
whole length of the barrel.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
On a short one. On the eighteen inch though, no, no,
on the fourteen and a half inch, yes, okay, but
on the eighteen and a half inch, no, eighteen just
sticks out a little just for the barrels extensive okay, yeah, correct.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So it's going to hold what four or five in.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
The it's a five plus one okay, so.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Six in the gun plus five in the stock. I
like that.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Oh yeah, like that a lot. Oh I cannot wait
and you know, one of the questions we get asked
the most is well, can you make it for this
or that or And it's usually a shock and we
can't make it far because of that limitation of the
guess system. Stock is in the stock. So yeah, so
and you know, yeah, could we maybe engineer a replacement,
(31:26):
you know, spraying inside the stock action spraying? We probably could,
But I don't really want to impede on these gun
manufacturers perfection that they've already made, you know, and try
to change things.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Well, you want to keep it easy to install too,
I mean, and to be honest with you know, the
audience when people are when accessory makers and especially after
market accessories where they're making products, they look at what's
the number of them out there. It's like pistols. Okay,
if you're going to make a set of sites that
fit a particular type of pistol, I can guarantee it's
(32:01):
gonna be for the glock, it's gonna be for maybe
an mm P, it's gonna be for now at this point,
a sig B through sixty five. Probably because there's just
so many of them out there. They're not making sights
for the I don't know Charter Arms, Bulldog, that's not
the first one. They're doing it for shotguns, Revy Todight seventy,
(32:25):
Mosburg five hundred. There's how many of them out there?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
There's twenty one million?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah there, Yeah, you probably everyone listened to this is like, yeah,
I got one.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I probably you.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Probably own one, right. If you don't, you should. It's
kind of like owning a ten twenty two or you know,
a Smith West and J frame. It's just like, what
this is a right of passage. If you're going to
call yourself a gun owner, you probably need to own
one of these shotguns.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, and a lot of people. Let's say you're you
wanted to start duck hunting, Well, you're not going to
go buy the fifteen hundred nineteen hundred dollars super Black
Eagle or whatever to start duck hunting on your first try.
You're gonna buy an eight seventy or a five hundred,
and you're gonna go out there and you're try it.
If you like it, you're going to move up to
the Semiato shotguns later on. But in the meantime, you
got your pump which is doing fine. But when you've
(33:06):
moved up to the other gun, the pump music gets
relegated to home defense, gets put in the corner, put
in the closet. That's your home defense go to now,
and let me tell you, when something goes bumping the night,
you're gonna be wearing your boxers, not your kit. You're
not gonna have all your.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Gear, and it's going to be in your hands. Everything
you got is you're gonna pick up. You know, your
your home defense gun. And most people, maybe not all
of you guys, if you live by yourself, this might
even be the case. But a lot of people, if
they have a home defense shotgun, the tubular magazine is
going to be fully loaded and there's gonna be nothing
in the chamber most likely. And I know that means
(33:40):
you're down one round, but it's a safer way long
term to keep the gun absolutely stored at the ready
in your house. So now, okay, yeah, you're down one
round if you should store it that way, But if
you've got these rounds in the stock that are very
quick to get out and load, you've got an extra five.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, like you said, you're not getting getting your your
shell belt on when you have to go inspect of
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yep, you're gonna grab the shotgun and your a fight
with what you got and uh and this just gives
you that because once your shotgun is empty, it is.
It's now a baseball bat.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It's a decent club.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
It's a decent club, granted. Yeah. And my stocks so
strong that it would make a very good club. You
should put that.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
You should be like, hey, listen, if you if you
use up all the shells, this thing will bludgeon someone.
The bludgeon the bludge of Mattic.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Five thousand, right right.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
You know, if you don't like it for a stock,
you can just you know, eat some of it so
it's easy to install, right. I mean, you have a
lot of people that are buying these and just swapping
them out on their gun.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Absolutely. You know. The hardest part is swopping this thing
out on your shotgun is taking your old one off.
I can't help you there. I don't know how the
manufacturer mounted it to your gun, but you got to
get that thing off yourself. But once it's off, I
give you the tool in the box to put mine
on your shotgun so you don't have to go hunting
for a tool. Nothing worse than a new toy. No tool.
I hate that, you know, So I give you the
(34:59):
tool to put it all. You just need a Phillip screwdriver.
Besides that, the instructions are plain this day. But if
that you still have a problem with that. I have
videos on the website and on YouTube, and I explain
how to and I go through it step by step.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
So they might find it in a dealer, but they
can also find it online right correct.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
They can go to tack tooload dot com, tack to load,
tact a lad tack pretty ezy and hard. They can
go to Amazon. It's on there as well. Okay, we
don't have all the colors on Amazon or the website. Amazon.
If you have Prime is free shipping. On my website
is free shipping. So if you don't have Prime and
you want free shipping, go to my website. I give
(35:37):
you free shipping.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I'm kind of surprise because most people they're just like, dude, sorry,
we can't do free shipping. We're not Amazon.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yeah, and you know I get that, and I just
want I hate it when like people like, oh, it's
go to Amazon, it's free shipping, Like I don't have prime,
and then I'm all depressed because I didn't get my
free shipping. So I'm offering people free shipping on my
website so it makes it easier. Yeah, it does.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Cool. All right. Well that's it man, Mike, thanks for
being on with us.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I enjoyed it, and now we'll have him back on.
We'll have them tell lots of stories about you know,
bad guys falling through ceilings and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
All the good stories are are relegated to how tall
your glass of bourbon is.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, we'll get together and drink about it. Tell some
lies south. We don't let the truth get in the
way of a good story.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Absolutely, all right.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
That's it for us, guys, go check them out Tactic Load.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
We like it.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
We think it's been pretty cool, and we'll see you
next time on gun Dog Nation.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!