November 4, 2025 • 35 mins
Think you understand self-defense laws? Think again. In this episode of Gun Talk Nation, Ryan Gresham sits down with Dan Zelenka, President of the Louisiana Shooting Association, to pull back the curtain on what really happens behind the scenes at state capitols, how gun bills live or die in committee, and what "castle doctrine" doesn't actually protect you from.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Hodgdon Powder, Safariland, Kimber, EOTECH, NRA ARC, and Range Ready Studios.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 11.04.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Hodgdon Powder, Safariland, Kimber, EOTECH, NRA ARC, and Range Ready Studios.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 11.04.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Is this thing going to make it out of a
committe or is it not? Well.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
One of the things that's really important and one of
the reasons I would say to sit down and not
speak as a rule about trying a case, okay, or
argue or argue in a case is if you're winning,
shut up.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is Guntognation. Guntognation is
brought to you by Hodgden, Safari Land, Kimber, Eotech, n
(00:42):
RA ARC and Range. Ready. Hey, welcome into Guntognation. Today
on Guntognation, we're going to try to give you some
stories of behind the scenes on working gun rights in
your state, and hopefully there's a few takeaways and some
things that you guys can But also we're going to
talk about there's a little bit more to carrying and
(01:05):
having your permit and gun free zones and things like that.
So stick around for that today on the show. Dan's
link is on the show Dan's link. Welcome in, Man, Well,
good to be here. So I'm in my office and
I know you're coming by, and I'm just checking email
in the morning like I always do, and I hear boom,
(01:27):
I'm like kJ He's like, that's Dan. He said, well,
I figure, you know, I guess you figured I'm coming
by to do this interview, I might as well, you know,
shoot the gun a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I needed to test some loads. It's a beautiful morning,
so I appreciate the fact that you have a range
out back. How they shoot? They shot great.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I was actually testing seating depth, so one shot better
than the other two. Yeah, that's what I'll go with.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, it's funny. I was listening to gun talk radio
from this past week and Tom was talking about different
loads he was working up for his three thirty eight
ought six actly improved. Okay gun nerd Yes, but yeah,
I mean it is funny because depending on where you are,
(02:16):
I guess, depend on what you like, but also depending
where you are in life, it's either like, dude, that's
a lot of trouble, or as he put it, well
this is a chance to go play with guns and
loads and shoot and you know, accurize things.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Absolutely absolutely. I mean every rifle is is its own challenge,
so to speak. Some are worse than others. Yeah, but
they're all unique and what might work in one may
not work in another. That were built next to each other. Yeah.
So one of the fun things is to really kind
(02:54):
of fine tune your loads to work in your rifle.
And it also gives you really supreme confidence in the
fact that you can hit a deer pretty much as
far as you should be shooting at one.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right, And I guess you know this isn't what we
were going to get into, but just now I'm thinking
about it. You can someone can do that even if
they're not a reloader as well, right, I mean you
could play with different I mean loads off the shelf
from your sporting goods store and see what your gun likes.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Absolutely absolutely. I mean, for instance, twenty two long rifle.
You don't reload twenty two long rifle, yep. But what
you should do is when you buy a new gun,
you should buy a bunch of different brands of ammunition
and pipes of ammunition and test them because one of
(03:43):
them will shoot better than the rest. And when you
find that, go buy a bunch of them.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Go buy bricks upon bricks, bricks upon bricks.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But you can do the same thing with a center
fire I mean they you know, all sorts of companies
make ammunition, for instance, for the six' five Creed more.
Yep and you could go out and you, know pick
a bullet weight or a bullet, type and buy several
brands of ammunition with similar types of bullets and then
(04:15):
go test. Those you will find that one of them shoots.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Better and in the popular calibers like a six' Five
creed more or a three. H eight there's an enormous
amount of options. Out, there, God YES so i mean
you can, go crazy but that's a good, advice, saying
like let's pick a bullet weight that's appropriate for what
you're going to be doing, with it and then buy
a bunch. Of STUFF but i wanted to GET into
(04:40):
i kind of teased it in. The intro you're. AN
attorney i, am, sorry everybody we have an attorney on.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
The show. I'm retired.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
You're retired you keep trying to. Be retired it's one of,
those things right if you would stop, calling hey can you?
Help me but, you also for a, long time you've
Worked With Louisiana.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Shooting association i'm the president Of The Louisiana, shooting association.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Also trying to retire. From that they won't, Let you
they will not.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Let, Me apparently i'm the best free lobbyist they have in.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
The, State right so YOU'RE the, i mean this is
the state gun rights Group, For louisiana but this conversation
applies to people all over the country and just kind
of talking about how do you do things at the
state level and how does because this is where we were,
talking EARLIER and, i, said, hey look if you sign
up For A Second amendment FOUNDATION or, nra emails you're
(05:35):
going to get those emails sometimes that are on the
state level and, it's, like hey we need. Your support
click this button right, your representative and it kind of
auto fills it in and you say support this bill
or please don't support this bill. Or whatever but and,
you're saying that's a good thing. To do but there's
more that people can do.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
As well there is there is if you live anywhere
near the. STATE capitol i Know, in louisiana what they
try to do is put all the gun bills that
are going to be in let's Say the Administration Of
Criminal justice committee In. The house they try to put
all the gun bills on. One day so what we
do is we organize groups of people to come up
(06:16):
there and they get in the audience and what you
do up there is you fill out a card either
four or against it against, the bill and you check
a box whether you want to talk. Or, not well
there may be seven or, eighty people and maybe four
(06:37):
or five of us might check the box that we want,
to talk and usually IT'S The nra rep myself and
maybe one or two other people who have really pertinent
things that they want. To discuss and.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
For people listen to this who've never, done this they've
never gone to their state capital and to a committee
hearing on some, gun bills this is what's going. To
happen you're going to show up and there are going
to Be The mom's demand action type. People there usually
there's going to be some anti gun people and they're
all wearing the same color shirt because it's a strategy
(07:14):
to show, the representators, the, politicians hey we're all the.
Same page we're all against this gun, rights. Bill right
but sometimes the gun the pro gun side will wear
the same, color shirt. Sometimes not it depends on which
group you.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah too there are two Groups in louisiana that are
pro pro gun rights and they wear the same color
shirt and they always. Show up one group wears a.
Purple shirt the other group wears a, red shirt which
is the same color as. Mom's. Demand action is that
on purpose or is that? By accident it was By activate, it's.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Like, hey guys maybe we need to change our.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Color, shirt actually the guy who organizes that group but
many shirts that it will.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
NEVER change i got too, many, SHIRTS man i can't.
Change it but.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
That's interesting they pretty well drown out the. Mom's demand oh?
Do they louisiana is very. Pro, gunned yeah we have
a probably two, well yeah two thirds of the Legislature
is republican and. Pro gun we got a. Progun governor
(08:27):
so in a lot, of ways we've kind of drowned
out the. Mom's demand but you don't want to take it.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
For granted. Oh ABSOLUTELY and i mean so as far
as those, hearings go and that's where it. ALL starts,
i mean if you're getting to they're voting on the floor,
of this you're a little late to. The party you
need to be in the committee hearings or in an earlier
stage of.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
This, everything really, you're right it starts with the. Committee,
hearings okay your pro gun bills have to make it.
Through committee the easiest way to kill an anti gun
bill is. In committee if you can prevent it from,
getting out you don't ever have to worry about it
being on the floor or getting to the. Other chamber
(09:14):
sometimes committees can, be difficult depending on where the where the,
bill goes which committee it, goes to it can be difficult,
to get, let's say a pro gun bill if you
end up in a in a committee that's very kind
of close or may have some.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Just the makeup of the committee that's. ALL mean, i
mean like, You said louisiana is Two, thirds republican but
you may have a committee that's half and half for
excuse or liberal.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Or actually in some cases Even, in louisiana we have
committees that Have more democrats on Them. Than republicans, FOR
instance i had a bill last year go To The
Senate municipal committee instead Of The. Judiciary committee now it
would have been dead on arrival At The, judiciary committee
(10:04):
but actually made it out to the floor on the
uh on the From The. Municipal committe yeahcause you're just
they just have the. Votes there they had. The Vote
so i'll.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Tell everybody a funny Story that i'm not Sure if i've.
Told before but they, they have, you know most of
these gun bills on the, same day and usually you're
In the judiciary committee for a lot of those In.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
The Senate The judiciary committee In, the House the Administration Of.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Criminal, Justice Okay so, dan, says hey we got this,
this hearing this. Committee hearing it'd be good if you.
Could come we might need you. To, SPEAK okay i get.
All ready and It's about and it's funny Because in
louisiana we have preemption and so the state law and
you can correct THEM if i say, This, Wrong dan
(10:49):
the state law preempts immune is pally making their own
laws gun law when it pertains. To guns And So
new orleans thinks they're special because they're complete mismanaged and
have a. Crime problem so they want to they want
to solve the crime problem with taking away your. Gun
rights so they this is what this was. All About
so i'm just all Prepared and i'm thinking about all
(11:11):
the all my talking points and all. This STUFF and
i fill out my CARD that i am against this
AND yes i want, to talk and they they're going
through and there's all these speakers and the chief of
Police In new orleans, AND uh i THINK the da
speak and they kind of get drugged through the mud
(11:31):
a little bit by the. Committee chair you can just
kind of tell like they don't know what they're getting.
Into here but then, they say, all, right well who
else do we have here? To speak and they're going
through the cards and They Say ryan gresham AND and
i start to, stand Up and dan is like a
couple rows in front, of me and you look back
and you shake your, Head No and, i'm, like OKAY
(11:54):
and i just sit down because you don't have to go.
Up there if they call, your name you can kind of.
Like decline And then dan texts me, and says we have,
the votes you don't you don't need, to speak which, is,
look guys this is how. It works like this is
how it works because you guys are having conversations and, we're,
(12:14):
counting right we're counting. It absolutely is this thing going
to make it out a committee or is? It?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Not well one of the things that's really important and
one of THE reasons i would say to sit down and, Not,
speak well there's always a there's a rule about trying, a,
case okay or argue or arguing a case is if
you're winning.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Shut, up okay you don't look a hard time. WITH
that a lot of us have a. Hard time.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
We're back you don't want to talk yourself out of,
a WIN which i have watched in court before.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And my days as a, sales guy it was like
if they say yes to, the sale also, shut up here's,
it again.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And not get any better. Than that but one of
the important things, with committees the people that vote are
the people who are in.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
The.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Room now there are committees going, on elsewhere and the
one Of The criminal justice committee members or more, than
one may have bills the same day in other committees
where they have to leave to go present their. Own
bill so while you have them sitting in the chair
(13:26):
and you have a majority in, your favor let them,
vote WOW because, i mean we've had it where they
did not have a majority in. Our favor, and actually,
in fact this Was a blake. MEGAZ story i don't
know How long blake sat there and talked until they
(13:49):
could round up.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Enough votes it's, like like, keep Talking, keep mark we
need to get these guys from these other committee hearings
into this.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Room exactly and fortunately the chare person for the committee
was on. Our side and. Cut, it oh kept asking
him procedural questions and then making the lawyer in the
IN the uh in the committee look up the procedure.
And stuff and as soon as soon as the requisite
(14:19):
number of votes walked, In there blake. Shut, Up, yep.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay why don't we just put this to a vote?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Right? Now, exactly oh, my.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Gosh, exactly look that's how. It happens there's a lot
of like strategy behind.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
This stuff there is more going on behind the scenes
than you. Would know but one of the main THINGS
that i want, To, see OKAY when i go, UP
there i want my members and other members of other
gun rights groups to have written.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
The.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
PEOPLE okay i like to see a lot of a lot.
Of support when they, start talking, they'll, say well WE'VE
received x number of emails.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
In.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Support exit that makes. A difference it definitely makes. A difference, they.
Count okay And, in louisiana if you send an email
to the secretary for, the committee it actually gets sent out. To. Everybody,
Okay cool and that's important because if you send it
individually to everybody but forget, the secretary it doesn't get into.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
The.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Count, really, YES yes i learned that the.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Hard, Way, interesting okay that's a.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Good strategy so that's the. First thing the second thing
is bodies. In, seeks okay we had one year and
it was, really great but we took every seat in.
The place the anti gun group had to go into
an off.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Site room you could watch it on the closed caption, screen.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Exactly and they had to walk in to come talk
perfect and that was really kind. Of funny. It was
it was a. Nice day needless, to say all of
our bills.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Got, through yeah if you, show up it makes a
difference and. They listen these are, good little, you know
stories and tips. For people but you also have some
stories about concealed carry gun free zones and signs and
what's real and what's not and what's enforceable and. What's
(16:23):
not we're going to talk about that right.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
After break.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
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(16:49):
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(17:34):
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(17:54):
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we started. This off you're a, gun guy, you shoot.
You reload we'll also talking about concealed carry, and people
(18:17):
depending on what state, you're in you go through the
class and to get, your permit or a lot of
states these days you don't even have to have a permit,
to carry so a lot of people there is, no
Class which i'm very pro freedom in, THAT way i,
love it but they, Also, go okay what are these
what are these gun? Free zones and there's there's the
ones that people. Know, about okay there's a battle of
(18:39):
detector at the. SPORTING event I know i can't carry,
in there or the polling station or something. Like that
but we've had a few stories Locally that i'm sure
that people in other states have these, weird laws but
maybe they're. Not laws AND like, i mean just as,
an example we have this like biking trail that they
(19:01):
put up no guns, allowed signs except that they didn't
have any force of LAW that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I know the trail you're talking about that took me
actually three years to get those. Signs, REMOVED really i
worked on that for quite some TIME because i. Lived,
there basically basically they put the signs up and the
law was. PRETTY clear, i mean the biking trail was
(19:32):
a public thoroughfare just like a street and. Public space
if you at the time you needed. A permit if
you had, a permit you, could carry, you know in that.
PUBLIC space, i mean the BEST advice i can give
somebody is to really really read over. Their laws. Your
(19:54):
laws know, your laws know one backwards, and forward know
where to find it if for any reason. You're stopped and,
of course always be polite and it's, not, Like oh
i've got my rights. And everything, you, know officer can
you take a, look at, you know this particular section of, the,
code RIGHT because i BELIEVE that i, can carry because the.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Cops don't they don't can they can't follow all of
these all these laws all, the, TIME right, i mean
these laws change.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
EVERY year i Mean, even louisiana we're tweaking them every.
Every year and, YOU know, i mean, for instance at
one point, in time you couldn't carry in a. Public
building now it is limited to a building where a legislative,
body meets so the state capital or where your local like,
(20:46):
city council just the. Meeting. Room okay but the OTHER
day i went to renew my driver's license and sitting
on the door of the driver's license offices no. Guns,
allowed well that's clearly a, public. Building yep and it's
clearly not where the, council, Meets right so it's, NOT enforceable,
(21:09):
i MEAN.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Just, i mean it's it's really in, that case it's
okay to just.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Ignore, it yes you really should know. The, law, yeah
okay that's.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
YOUR case, i mean we're in a fairly gun. Friendly
state you see that Sign in Massachusetts or Illinois, or
oregon it might be a different story.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
In. Those, Places yes i'm positive it'll be a. Different.
Story yeah, you Know, in texas they've got signs that are.
Very specific if it doesn't cite some, exact language then
the sign is of. No effect but if it does
cite that exact language and you, violate it then you're,
(21:54):
in trouble. You KNOW and i see the same Thing, in,
louisiana hoss and you can carry in. A. Hospital now
the only trick is that if it's private property and
it has, a sign then you can't, carry, There. Okay
okay typically what they'll do is just ask you, to
(22:14):
leave and if they do definitely leave because, you don't
then you're trespassing as far as as that concealed, needs,
concealed right, You, know yeah don't act, the fool don't
draw attention. To yourself and usually people, you know live and,
(22:41):
let live they'll they'll leave.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
You alone is there pretty stories of the fact that
we've got more than half of the states where you
don't have to have a permit. To carry are we
seeing anything where it's like more people carrying who just
aren't really familiar with concealed carry if you don't know. The, laws.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Absolutely at Least. In louisiana there's a nine hour course
that you have to take to get a, carry, permit
okay and about eight hours of that is use of
force laws and concealed carry laws and also, you know
how do you use a pistol kind, of, thing nomenclature how,
(23:23):
it functions and those types. Of THINGS but i think
that that's pretty important Now. In louisiana when we passed,
constitutional carry we also passed a companion law that the
state police has a number of fifteen minute videos on
(23:43):
about seven or eight subjects Concerning, concealed carrie concerning use,
of force concerning where you can carry.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Because people think, they know and we were having a
conversation yesterday about. Castle, DOGS well i think there's a
lot of misunderstandings about that of what that is and what,
it is and there may be even some nuances and
changes depending on new cases that. Pop up if it's in,
My house i'm going to. Shoot, them well you can
(24:16):
get trouble there.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
If you read. The, law okay it basically says that
there shall be a presumption that you acted reasonably ON.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
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Speaker 2 (26:39):
TOO well a legal presumption, is basically, you know if
you're presumed to have, acted reasonably you should, be. Okay
okay the problem is there is a court case, Out there.
State v ingram that Came, out affet which district came
out Of, in louisiana where the, court, said yes there's
(27:05):
a presumption that you, acted reasonably but if the district
attorney can prove, by oh come on beyond a reasonable
doubt that you, acted unreasonably They can rebut the presumption can. Reverse,
That yeah and basically what happened was guy's ex wife
(27:29):
came to the house kind of, broke in fighting with his.
Current wife the guys on the phone with nine to
one one describing what's going on actually tells nine one
one that he doesn't think that, she's armed but they're
fighting in basically the. Entrance way they're inside, the house
(27:52):
but they're fighting close to, the door and, He says
i've got to go take care of this and grabs a,
hunting rifle shoots her and. Kills her, oh wow So
he's his, defense, is hey she was illegally in, the
house which the court, says yes AND therefore i have
(28:14):
a PRESUMPTION that i. Acted reasonably and the court allowed
the district attorney to put on evidence that he was not,
acting reasonably and he was convicted of manslaughter and got
a twenty eight. Year sentence.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Holy moly, so yeah that whole they're in, My house i'm,
cleared hot. Not necessarily and this Is, in louisiana where
it's a very pro. Gun STATE it's i would say
it's a fairly pro self defense.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
State in the AREA that i think this. CASE occurred
i believe that that that's. Definitely true, in fact it
didn't occur in one of the big Cities Like, New,
orleans okay anything. Like that so, YOU know i would
think that the DA's Probably, a republican, you know it's probably,
a conservative and the still convicted, this guy and you
(29:02):
know it it likely was the disparity, in, force right,
you know he could have very reasonably used force against his,
ex wife, you know go hit her or whatever to break.
That fight but using, deadly force you know that that
(29:25):
really was the was. The, issue yeah it didn't call for, deadly,
Force right he could have used some lesser right amount
of force and ended. The situation, Uh yeah or.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Do you have you weigh fifty or one hundred pounds
more than? This lady you. Didn't have he's, a lady you're.
A man those those are all factors in a self.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Defense case and in this, particular case even though the
presumption was in, his favor the legal presumption that he
was acting reasonably was in. His favor the court allowed
the district attorney to to put on evidence and convince
the jury that he was acting unreasonably and convicted him
(30:08):
twenty eight years and upheld it. On appeal.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Whooh MAN so i guess that's just a takeaway for,
people listening, is like know the laws and really think through.
This stuff because the reason we started talking about this
is we had some folks in here doing some scenario
based training, last week and we had one, SCENARIO where,
(30:32):
i mean a guy walks through the front door of.
Your house we're in a. Shoot house but, you, know
ok you're sitting on the couch and somebody walks through
the front door of your house and he, literally, says
boy it's, cold outside and five out of eight people
shot him in the chest and killed him the moment
he stepped in the house, and, said boy it's. Cold
outside and they all were defending, their, actions, saying well
(30:56):
he's in, my house, you KNOW and i keep my,
doors locked so obviously he. Broke. In gone maybe. Maybe
not are you sure you want to roll?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Those, dice well some of those, were, Women OKAY and
i know the guy who was playing the, intruder, Part
yeah and, you know he's, relatively large.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
And they could argue that disparity of force.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
That is that is something that would feed. Into it and,
you know you have a small woman, being surprised, you
know disparity. Of force that probably. Will work but, you
know are you willing to take a twenty eight year charge? Over.
That right one of, the things, you know it's Kind of,
(31:40):
dan's RULE but I know i've adopted it, from elsewhere is,
you know you don't use, your gun you don't shoot
someone accepting a circumstance that is so dire that you
are willing to go to prison for the rest of. Your. Life,
okay yeah, so that even though you may not have
(32:02):
a duty, to retreat it kind of, Gives, you hey,
YOU know i can just back out of this and
not have to use, my gun, because basically if you use, your,
gun okay YOU'RE likely, i mean, you're gonna of course
come under great scrutiny from the district attorney and the sheriff,
or police but you're likely going to have to defend yourself.
(32:26):
In court and the consequence is if, you lose if you.
Are incorrect and remember these jurors aren't in the heat of. The,
moment yeah they're just sitting in a, room, saying well,
you know he could have probably, done this, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Not necessarily gun people and any of.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
That stuff, AND well i know of one case Occurred In.
New orleans, in fact one of a mutual friend of
ours was sitting in there watching, the case and the
district attorney said that it's never self defense if you're
shooting on, on person which is. Not true that's.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Not true but in his he told the jury, that.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yes in, his summation, oh okay and they convicted.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
The, Guy wow well think. About this if you go
to trial on something, like this a murder wine or whatever,
it is go walk Through a walmart and pick out twelve.
Random people those are the people who are going to
be deciding. Your fate, GOOD luck i, get, It, dude
(33:37):
dan thanks for. BEING on i hope we scared the
hell out of everybody and give him something to. Think about,
but also, you know getting involved at state level and
gun rights really. START there i mean it starts to.
Municipality level, state level you get a lot done and
kind of help whether or not you're going to be
living in a free state or not as.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
FREE state i would encourage people to join an organization LIKE.
The nra doesn't have to BE, the NRA but i
know that they send out a lot of notices, and
things and also join their state association because their state
association will know more of what's going on at the
state level than. Almost anyone and just. Get involved get
(34:22):
involved when it's, gun day take the time to. SHOW
up i know a lot of people have jobs that
they can't get, away from but you know they're. Retired
people they are people who have looser schedules and just
show up and. Watch, it okay, you Know what i'd
like to say is to watch it a few times
(34:44):
and then if you want to get, more involved then get.
More involved. You know but being involved is one of
the reasons why we have good Laws in louisiana with
respect to. Gun rights and.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
If you, plan ahead you could probably take one day.
A year the.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Problem with that is we usually do not know when
the hearing is going to be until The. Previous friday,
oh okay you know it's going to Be, a tuesday hero. Or, less, yeah,
yeah okay so you end up you end up with
a couple of. Days, notice okay, so hey you do
what you. GOTTA do i try to stay very friendly
(35:26):
with the heads of the committee SO that i get
as much notice. As, possible yeah, and uh.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
That. Works Out, thanks dan thanks for being on.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
With us oh, You're welcome. My pleasure we will see.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
You guys next Time On Gun. Talk nation
Is this thing going to make it out of a
committe or is it not? Well.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
One of the things that's really important and one of
the reasons I would say to sit down and not
speak as a rule about trying a case, okay, or
argue or argue in a case is if you're winning,
shut up.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is Guntognation. Guntognation is
brought to you by Hodgden, Safari Land, Kimber, Eotech, n
(00:42):
RA ARC and Range. Ready. Hey, welcome into Guntognation. Today
on Guntognation, we're going to try to give you some
stories of behind the scenes on working gun rights in
your state, and hopefully there's a few takeaways and some
things that you guys can But also we're going to
talk about there's a little bit more to carrying and
(01:05):
having your permit and gun free zones and things like that.
So stick around for that today on the show. Dan's
link is on the show Dan's link. Welcome in, Man, Well,
good to be here. So I'm in my office and
I know you're coming by, and I'm just checking email
in the morning like I always do, and I hear boom,
(01:27):
I'm like kJ He's like, that's Dan. He said, well,
I figure, you know, I guess you figured I'm coming
by to do this interview, I might as well, you know,
shoot the gun a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I needed to test some loads. It's a beautiful morning,
so I appreciate the fact that you have a range
out back. How they shoot? They shot great.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I was actually testing seating depth, so one shot better
than the other two. Yeah, that's what I'll go with.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, it's funny. I was listening to gun talk radio
from this past week and Tom was talking about different
loads he was working up for his three thirty eight
ought six actly improved. Okay gun nerd Yes, but yeah,
I mean it is funny because depending on where you are,
(02:16):
I guess, depend on what you like, but also depending
where you are in life, it's either like, dude, that's
a lot of trouble, or as he put it, well
this is a chance to go play with guns and
loads and shoot and you know, accurize things.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Absolutely absolutely. I mean every rifle is is its own challenge,
so to speak. Some are worse than others. Yeah, but
they're all unique and what might work in one may
not work in another. That were built next to each other. Yeah.
So one of the fun things is to really kind
(02:54):
of fine tune your loads to work in your rifle.
And it also gives you really supreme confidence in the
fact that you can hit a deer pretty much as
far as you should be shooting at one.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right, And I guess you know this isn't what we
were going to get into, but just now I'm thinking
about it. You can someone can do that even if
they're not a reloader as well, right, I mean you
could play with different I mean loads off the shelf
from your sporting goods store and see what your gun likes.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Absolutely absolutely. I mean, for instance, twenty two long rifle.
You don't reload twenty two long rifle, yep. But what
you should do is when you buy a new gun,
you should buy a bunch of different brands of ammunition
and pipes of ammunition and test them because one of
(03:43):
them will shoot better than the rest. And when you
find that, go buy a bunch of them.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Go buy bricks upon bricks, bricks upon bricks.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But you can do the same thing with a center
fire I mean they you know, all sorts of companies
make ammunition, for instance, for the six' five Creed more.
Yep and you could go out and you, know pick
a bullet weight or a bullet, type and buy several
brands of ammunition with similar types of bullets and then
(04:15):
go test. Those you will find that one of them shoots.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Better and in the popular calibers like a six' Five
creed more or a three. H eight there's an enormous
amount of options. Out, there, God YES so i mean
you can, go crazy but that's a good, advice, saying
like let's pick a bullet weight that's appropriate for what
you're going to be doing, with it and then buy
a bunch. Of STUFF but i wanted to GET into
(04:40):
i kind of teased it in. The intro you're. AN
attorney i, am, sorry everybody we have an attorney on.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
The show. I'm retired.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
You're retired you keep trying to. Be retired it's one of,
those things right if you would stop, calling hey can you?
Help me but, you also for a, long time you've
Worked With Louisiana.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Shooting association i'm the president Of The Louisiana, shooting association.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Also trying to retire. From that they won't, Let you
they will not.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Let, Me apparently i'm the best free lobbyist they have in.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
The, State right so YOU'RE the, i mean this is
the state gun rights Group, For louisiana but this conversation
applies to people all over the country and just kind
of talking about how do you do things at the
state level and how does because this is where we were,
talking EARLIER and, i, said, hey look if you sign
up For A Second amendment FOUNDATION or, nra emails you're
(05:35):
going to get those emails sometimes that are on the
state level and, it's, like hey we need. Your support
click this button right, your representative and it kind of
auto fills it in and you say support this bill
or please don't support this bill. Or whatever but and,
you're saying that's a good thing. To do but there's
more that people can do.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
As well there is there is if you live anywhere
near the. STATE capitol i Know, in louisiana what they
try to do is put all the gun bills that
are going to be in let's Say the Administration Of
Criminal justice committee In. The house they try to put
all the gun bills on. One day so what we
do is we organize groups of people to come up
(06:16):
there and they get in the audience and what you
do up there is you fill out a card either
four or against it against, the bill and you check
a box whether you want to talk. Or, not well
there may be seven or, eighty people and maybe four
(06:37):
or five of us might check the box that we want,
to talk and usually IT'S The nra rep myself and
maybe one or two other people who have really pertinent
things that they want. To discuss and.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
For people listen to this who've never, done this they've
never gone to their state capital and to a committee
hearing on some, gun bills this is what's going. To
happen you're going to show up and there are going
to Be The mom's demand action type. People there usually
there's going to be some anti gun people and they're
all wearing the same color shirt because it's a strategy
(07:14):
to show, the representators, the, politicians hey we're all the.
Same page we're all against this gun, rights. Bill right
but sometimes the gun the pro gun side will wear
the same, color shirt. Sometimes not it depends on which
group you.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah too there are two Groups in louisiana that are
pro pro gun rights and they wear the same color
shirt and they always. Show up one group wears a.
Purple shirt the other group wears a, red shirt which
is the same color as. Mom's. Demand action is that
on purpose or is that? By accident it was By activate, it's.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Like, hey guys maybe we need to change our.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Color, shirt actually the guy who organizes that group but
many shirts that it will.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
NEVER change i got too, many, SHIRTS man i can't.
Change it but.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
That's interesting they pretty well drown out the. Mom's demand oh?
Do they louisiana is very. Pro, gunned yeah we have
a probably two, well yeah two thirds of the Legislature
is republican and. Pro gun we got a. Progun governor
(08:27):
so in a lot, of ways we've kind of drowned
out the. Mom's demand but you don't want to take it.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
For granted. Oh ABSOLUTELY and i mean so as far
as those, hearings go and that's where it. ALL starts,
i mean if you're getting to they're voting on the floor,
of this you're a little late to. The party you
need to be in the committee hearings or in an earlier
stage of.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
This, everything really, you're right it starts with the. Committee,
hearings okay your pro gun bills have to make it.
Through committee the easiest way to kill an anti gun
bill is. In committee if you can prevent it from,
getting out you don't ever have to worry about it
being on the floor or getting to the. Other chamber
(09:14):
sometimes committees can, be difficult depending on where the where the,
bill goes which committee it, goes to it can be difficult,
to get, let's say a pro gun bill if you
end up in a in a committee that's very kind
of close or may have some.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Just the makeup of the committee that's. ALL mean, i
mean like, You said louisiana is Two, thirds republican but
you may have a committee that's half and half for
excuse or liberal.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Or actually in some cases Even, in louisiana we have
committees that Have more democrats on Them. Than republicans, FOR
instance i had a bill last year go To The
Senate municipal committee instead Of The. Judiciary committee now it
would have been dead on arrival At The, judiciary committee
(10:04):
but actually made it out to the floor on the
uh on the From The. Municipal committe yeahcause you're just
they just have the. Votes there they had. The Vote
so i'll.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Tell everybody a funny Story that i'm not Sure if i've.
Told before but they, they have, you know most of
these gun bills on the, same day and usually you're
In the judiciary committee for a lot of those In.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
The Senate The judiciary committee In, the House the Administration Of.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Criminal, Justice Okay so, dan, says hey we got this,
this hearing this. Committee hearing it'd be good if you.
Could come we might need you. To, SPEAK okay i get.
All ready and It's about and it's funny Because in
louisiana we have preemption and so the state law and
you can correct THEM if i say, This, Wrong dan
(10:49):
the state law preempts immune is pally making their own
laws gun law when it pertains. To guns And So
new orleans thinks they're special because they're complete mismanaged and
have a. Crime problem so they want to they want
to solve the crime problem with taking away your. Gun
rights so they this is what this was. All About
so i'm just all Prepared and i'm thinking about all
(11:11):
the all my talking points and all. This STUFF and
i fill out my CARD that i am against this
AND yes i want, to talk and they they're going
through and there's all these speakers and the chief of
Police In new orleans, AND uh i THINK the da
speak and they kind of get drugged through the mud
(11:31):
a little bit by the. Committee chair you can just
kind of tell like they don't know what they're getting.
Into here but then, they say, all, right well who
else do we have here? To speak and they're going
through the cards and They Say ryan gresham AND and
i start to, stand Up and dan is like a
couple rows in front, of me and you look back
and you shake your, Head No and, i'm, like OKAY
(11:54):
and i just sit down because you don't have to go.
Up there if they call, your name you can kind of.
Like decline And then dan texts me, and says we have,
the votes you don't you don't need, to speak which, is,
look guys this is how. It works like this is
how it works because you guys are having conversations and, we're,
(12:14):
counting right we're counting. It absolutely is this thing going
to make it out a committee or is? It?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Not well one of the things that's really important and
one of THE reasons i would say to sit down and, Not,
speak well there's always a there's a rule about trying, a,
case okay or argue or arguing a case is if
you're winning.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Shut, up okay you don't look a hard time. WITH
that a lot of us have a. Hard time.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
We're back you don't want to talk yourself out of,
a WIN which i have watched in court before.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And my days as a, sales guy it was like
if they say yes to, the sale also, shut up here's,
it again.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And not get any better. Than that but one of
the important things, with committees the people that vote are
the people who are in.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
The.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Room now there are committees going, on elsewhere and the
one Of The criminal justice committee members or more, than
one may have bills the same day in other committees
where they have to leave to go present their. Own
bill so while you have them sitting in the chair
(13:26):
and you have a majority in, your favor let them,
vote WOW because, i mean we've had it where they
did not have a majority in. Our favor, and actually,
in fact this Was a blake. MEGAZ story i don't
know How long blake sat there and talked until they
(13:49):
could round up.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Enough votes it's, like like, keep Talking, keep mark we
need to get these guys from these other committee hearings
into this.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Room exactly and fortunately the chare person for the committee
was on. Our side and. Cut, it oh kept asking
him procedural questions and then making the lawyer in the
IN the uh in the committee look up the procedure.
And stuff and as soon as soon as the requisite
(14:19):
number of votes walked, In there blake. Shut, Up, yep.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay why don't we just put this to a vote?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Right? Now, exactly oh, my.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Gosh, exactly look that's how. It happens there's a lot
of like strategy behind.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
This stuff there is more going on behind the scenes
than you. Would know but one of the main THINGS
that i want, To, see OKAY when i go, UP
there i want my members and other members of other
gun rights groups to have written.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
The.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
PEOPLE okay i like to see a lot of a lot.
Of support when they, start talking, they'll, say well WE'VE
received x number of emails.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
In.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Support exit that makes. A difference it definitely makes. A difference, they.
Count okay And, in louisiana if you send an email
to the secretary for, the committee it actually gets sent out. To. Everybody,
Okay cool and that's important because if you send it
individually to everybody but forget, the secretary it doesn't get into.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
The.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Count, really, YES yes i learned that the.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Hard, Way, interesting okay that's a.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Good strategy so that's the. First thing the second thing
is bodies. In, seeks okay we had one year and
it was, really great but we took every seat in.
The place the anti gun group had to go into
an off.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Site room you could watch it on the closed caption, screen.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Exactly and they had to walk in to come talk
perfect and that was really kind. Of funny. It was
it was a. Nice day needless, to say all of
our bills.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Got, through yeah if you, show up it makes a
difference and. They listen these are, good little, you know
stories and tips. For people but you also have some
stories about concealed carry gun free zones and signs and
what's real and what's not and what's enforceable and. What's
(16:23):
not we're going to talk about that right.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
After break.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
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(16:49):
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(17:12):
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(17:34):
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(17:54):
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Start shooting go check it out the Super short voodoo
three to nine. Rifle Scope, SO dan, i mean obviously
we started. This off you're a, gun guy, you shoot.
You reload we'll also talking about concealed carry, and people
(18:17):
depending on what state, you're in you go through the
class and to get, your permit or a lot of
states these days you don't even have to have a permit,
to carry so a lot of people there is, no
Class which i'm very pro freedom in, THAT way i,
love it but they, Also, go okay what are these
what are these gun? Free zones and there's there's the
ones that people. Know, about okay there's a battle of
(18:39):
detector at the. SPORTING event I know i can't carry,
in there or the polling station or something. Like that
but we've had a few stories Locally that i'm sure
that people in other states have these, weird laws but
maybe they're. Not laws AND like, i mean just as,
an example we have this like biking trail that they
(19:01):
put up no guns, allowed signs except that they didn't
have any force of LAW that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I know the trail you're talking about that took me
actually three years to get those. Signs, REMOVED really i
worked on that for quite some TIME because i. Lived,
there basically basically they put the signs up and the
law was. PRETTY clear, i mean the biking trail was
(19:32):
a public thoroughfare just like a street and. Public space
if you at the time you needed. A permit if
you had, a permit you, could carry, you know in that.
PUBLIC space, i mean the BEST advice i can give
somebody is to really really read over. Their laws. Your
(19:54):
laws know, your laws know one backwards, and forward know
where to find it if for any reason. You're stopped and,
of course always be polite and it's, not, Like oh
i've got my rights. And everything, you, know officer can
you take a, look at, you know this particular section of, the,
code RIGHT because i BELIEVE that i, can carry because the.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Cops don't they don't can they can't follow all of
these all these laws all, the, TIME right, i mean
these laws change.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
EVERY year i Mean, even louisiana we're tweaking them every.
Every year and, YOU know, i mean, for instance at
one point, in time you couldn't carry in a. Public
building now it is limited to a building where a legislative,
body meets so the state capital or where your local like,
(20:46):
city council just the. Meeting. Room okay but the OTHER
day i went to renew my driver's license and sitting
on the door of the driver's license offices no. Guns,
allowed well that's clearly a, public. Building yep and it's
clearly not where the, council, Meets right so it's, NOT enforceable,
(21:09):
i MEAN.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Just, i mean it's it's really in, that case it's
okay to just.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Ignore, it yes you really should know. The, law, yeah
okay that's.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
YOUR case, i mean we're in a fairly gun. Friendly
state you see that Sign in Massachusetts or Illinois, or
oregon it might be a different story.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
In. Those, Places yes i'm positive it'll be a. Different.
Story yeah, you Know, in texas they've got signs that are.
Very specific if it doesn't cite some, exact language then
the sign is of. No effect but if it does
cite that exact language and you, violate it then you're,
(21:54):
in trouble. You KNOW and i see the same Thing, in,
louisiana hoss and you can carry in. A. Hospital now
the only trick is that if it's private property and
it has, a sign then you can't, carry, There. Okay
okay typically what they'll do is just ask you, to
(22:14):
leave and if they do definitely leave because, you don't
then you're trespassing as far as as that concealed, needs,
concealed right, You, know yeah don't act, the fool don't
draw attention. To yourself and usually people, you know live and,
(22:41):
let live they'll they'll leave.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
You alone is there pretty stories of the fact that
we've got more than half of the states where you
don't have to have a permit. To carry are we
seeing anything where it's like more people carrying who just
aren't really familiar with concealed carry if you don't know. The, laws.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Absolutely at Least. In louisiana there's a nine hour course
that you have to take to get a, carry, permit
okay and about eight hours of that is use of
force laws and concealed carry laws and also, you know
how do you use a pistol kind, of, thing nomenclature how,
(23:23):
it functions and those types. Of THINGS but i think
that that's pretty important Now. In louisiana when we passed,
constitutional carry we also passed a companion law that the
state police has a number of fifteen minute videos on
(23:43):
about seven or eight subjects Concerning, concealed carrie concerning use,
of force concerning where you can carry.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Because people think, they know and we were having a
conversation yesterday about. Castle, DOGS well i think there's a
lot of misunderstandings about that of what that is and what,
it is and there may be even some nuances and
changes depending on new cases that. Pop up if it's in,
My house i'm going to. Shoot, them well you can
(24:16):
get trouble there.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
If you read. The, law okay it basically says that
there shall be a presumption that you acted reasonably ON.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
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Speaker 2 (26:39):
TOO well a legal presumption, is basically, you know if
you're presumed to have, acted reasonably you should, be. Okay
okay the problem is there is a court case, Out there.
State v ingram that Came, out affet which district came
out Of, in louisiana where the, court, said yes there's
(27:05):
a presumption that you, acted reasonably but if the district
attorney can prove, by oh come on beyond a reasonable
doubt that you, acted unreasonably They can rebut the presumption can. Reverse,
That yeah and basically what happened was guy's ex wife
(27:29):
came to the house kind of, broke in fighting with his.
Current wife the guys on the phone with nine to
one one describing what's going on actually tells nine one
one that he doesn't think that, she's armed but they're
fighting in basically the. Entrance way they're inside, the house
(27:52):
but they're fighting close to, the door and, He says
i've got to go take care of this and grabs a,
hunting rifle shoots her and. Kills her, oh wow So
he's his, defense, is hey she was illegally in, the
house which the court, says yes AND therefore i have
(28:14):
a PRESUMPTION that i. Acted reasonably and the court allowed
the district attorney to put on evidence that he was not,
acting reasonably and he was convicted of manslaughter and got
a twenty eight. Year sentence.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Holy moly, so yeah that whole they're in, My house i'm,
cleared hot. Not necessarily and this Is, in louisiana where
it's a very pro. Gun STATE it's i would say
it's a fairly pro self defense.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
State in the AREA that i think this. CASE occurred
i believe that that that's. Definitely true, in fact it
didn't occur in one of the big Cities Like, New,
orleans okay anything. Like that so, YOU know i would
think that the DA's Probably, a republican, you know it's probably,
a conservative and the still convicted, this guy and you
(29:02):
know it it likely was the disparity, in, force right,
you know he could have very reasonably used force against his,
ex wife, you know go hit her or whatever to break.
That fight but using, deadly force you know that that
(29:25):
really was the was. The, issue yeah it didn't call for, deadly,
Force right he could have used some lesser right amount
of force and ended. The situation, Uh yeah or.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Do you have you weigh fifty or one hundred pounds
more than? This lady you. Didn't have he's, a lady you're.
A man those those are all factors in a self.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Defense case and in this, particular case even though the
presumption was in, his favor the legal presumption that he
was acting reasonably was in. His favor the court allowed
the district attorney to to put on evidence and convince
the jury that he was acting unreasonably and convicted him
(30:08):
twenty eight years and upheld it. On appeal.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Whooh MAN so i guess that's just a takeaway for,
people listening, is like know the laws and really think through.
This stuff because the reason we started talking about this
is we had some folks in here doing some scenario
based training, last week and we had one, SCENARIO where,
(30:32):
i mean a guy walks through the front door of.
Your house we're in a. Shoot house but, you, know
ok you're sitting on the couch and somebody walks through
the front door of your house and he, literally, says
boy it's, cold outside and five out of eight people
shot him in the chest and killed him the moment
he stepped in the house, and, said boy it's. Cold
outside and they all were defending, their, actions, saying well
(30:56):
he's in, my house, you KNOW and i keep my,
doors locked so obviously he. Broke. In gone maybe. Maybe
not are you sure you want to roll?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Those, dice well some of those, were, Women OKAY and
i know the guy who was playing the, intruder, Part
yeah and, you know he's, relatively large.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
And they could argue that disparity of force.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
That is that is something that would feed. Into it and,
you know you have a small woman, being surprised, you
know disparity. Of force that probably. Will work but, you
know are you willing to take a twenty eight year charge? Over.
That right one of, the things, you know it's Kind of,
(31:40):
dan's RULE but I know i've adopted it, from elsewhere is,
you know you don't use, your gun you don't shoot
someone accepting a circumstance that is so dire that you
are willing to go to prison for the rest of. Your. Life,
okay yeah, so that even though you may not have
(32:02):
a duty, to retreat it kind of, Gives, you hey,
YOU know i can just back out of this and
not have to use, my gun, because basically if you use, your,
gun okay YOU'RE likely, i mean, you're gonna of course
come under great scrutiny from the district attorney and the sheriff,
or police but you're likely going to have to defend yourself.
(32:26):
In court and the consequence is if, you lose if you.
Are incorrect and remember these jurors aren't in the heat of. The,
moment yeah they're just sitting in a, room, saying well,
you know he could have probably, done this, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Not necessarily gun people and any of.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
That stuff, AND well i know of one case Occurred In.
New orleans, in fact one of a mutual friend of
ours was sitting in there watching, the case and the
district attorney said that it's never self defense if you're
shooting on, on person which is. Not true that's.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Not true but in his he told the jury, that.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yes in, his summation, oh okay and they convicted.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
The, Guy wow well think. About this if you go
to trial on something, like this a murder wine or whatever,
it is go walk Through a walmart and pick out twelve.
Random people those are the people who are going to
be deciding. Your fate, GOOD luck i, get, It, dude
(33:37):
dan thanks for. BEING on i hope we scared the
hell out of everybody and give him something to. Think about,
but also, you know getting involved at state level and
gun rights really. START there i mean it starts to.
Municipality level, state level you get a lot done and
kind of help whether or not you're going to be
living in a free state or not as.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
FREE state i would encourage people to join an organization LIKE.
The nra doesn't have to BE, the NRA but i
know that they send out a lot of notices, and
things and also join their state association because their state
association will know more of what's going on at the
state level than. Almost anyone and just. Get involved get
(34:22):
involved when it's, gun day take the time to. SHOW
up i know a lot of people have jobs that
they can't get, away from but you know they're. Retired
people they are people who have looser schedules and just
show up and. Watch, it okay, you Know what i'd
like to say is to watch it a few times
(34:44):
and then if you want to get, more involved then get.
More involved. You know but being involved is one of
the reasons why we have good Laws in louisiana with
respect to. Gun rights and.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
If you, plan ahead you could probably take one day.
A year the.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Problem with that is we usually do not know when
the hearing is going to be until The. Previous friday,
oh okay you know it's going to Be, a tuesday hero. Or, less, yeah,
yeah okay so you end up you end up with
a couple of. Days, notice okay, so hey you do
what you. GOTTA do i try to stay very friendly
(35:26):
with the heads of the committee SO that i get
as much notice. As, possible yeah, and uh.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
That. Works Out, thanks dan thanks for being on.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
With us oh, You're welcome. My pleasure we will see.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
You guys next Time On Gun. Talk nation
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