December 18, 2025 • 38 mins
Is it time to dust off your AR for some competition? In this episode of Gun Talk Nation, host Ryan Gresham sits down with Chad Barber of the NRA’s Competitive Shooting Division to talk about the launch of America’s Rifle Challenge (ARC) — a new, accessible rifle competition designed to bring more people into the shooting sports.
With under-100-round round counts, reduced-distance targets, support for pistol caliber carbines and rimfire, and options for indoor and outdoor ranges, ARC is built to be practical, inclusive, and fun.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Range Ready Studios, Black Hills Ammunition, NRA ARC, and Tokarev USA.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 12.18.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
With under-100-round round counts, reduced-distance targets, support for pistol caliber carbines and rimfire, and options for indoor and outdoor ranges, ARC is built to be practical, inclusive, and fun.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Range Ready Studios, Black Hills Ammunition, NRA ARC, and Tokarev USA.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 12.18.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How did this happen?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Magic?
Speaker 1 (00:03):
How do you get a panel van inside?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Take it apart piece by piece?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Did you really?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I did? Somebody else did? Yeah? But it worked.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is Guntognation. Guntognation is
brought to you by Range Ready, Blackhells Ammunition, n RA
(00:38):
ARC and TOKAEV. Hey welcome into Guntognation. We all like
shooting guns and a lot of you guys like competition,
and sometimes new shooting competitions are created. So we're going
to talk about that today and a lot of other
things here with Chad Barber from the INTERRA. How do
(01:00):
you say it, Chad? NRA Shooting Competition's.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Division, Competitive Shooting Division.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Competitive Shooting Division. That's better than what I said.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Says it differently on my shirt, but it is the
competitive shooting.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Division, all right, the competitive shooting division. Because a lot
of people think they know NRA. Yeah, TERRA, they're like
the gun rights guys, they're the you know, they're the
guys who are always fundraising or whatever. But there are
a lot of divisions of the TERRA that I think
a lot of people don't even know about.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Don't you think I've been an employee since January, and
I'm still trying to figure out the list so I
can talk to people about it, because I mean, growing up,
my dad, you know, had the American Hunter, the American rifleman.
He had his orange NRA Freedom hat.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I was telling my friend the other day that I
remember being out in the summertime mowing the lawn, coming
out there, and I'm sitting there, like right now, I've
lost my dad several years ago, and I'm just thinking
about the day that I was out there and coming
back in and he's got that orange hat in the garage,
and man, his son works for the NRA. Right now,
how did I get here?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
That's cool?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That was just and I talked to my wife about
it the other day, and you know, it is a journey.
It's fun, but how now do we explain what the
NRA does. They do so much and like I said,
we just got here and it's growing. It is the
n RARA two point zero. We're having fun with it.
We're trying to make something new and exciting, modernizing shooting sports.
So there's a lot to come.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
And we've been talking about that a little bit on
the podcast. On our radio shows, of kind of we've
we've stayed in touch with the NRA all along. I mean,
some people don't even realize my dad, Tom Gresham, used
to work at the NRA way back in the day,
back in the early eighties.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I was reading those magazines. That's why I referenced to him.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So, I mean, we've we've been there and done that
and been on this journey. And we you know, at
gun Talk, we called them out when when stuff wasn't right,
and we we because I think we ought to say this.
You know, we're having a no, we're having a guy
from the NRA on the podcast. But would you said
you only been there since when January.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Got hired in at Shot show to take over a program.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But it's it's a different organization than what it was
in the past, right, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I wouldn't have came on board if it wasn't Yeah,
you know, but sometimes the only way you can fix
stuff is from the inside. So people can sit back
on the sidelines and gripe and complain, but let's be realistic.
Who's got the loudest voice out there right now who
can make change? Yeah, and if we don't support that,
you know, And plus I still want to compete, even
though I run a program now which doesn't allow me
to compete as much as I want to use.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
The least amount of shooting you do is when you're
actually working in.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Absolutely and I've been you know, I've been in the
industry prior to this as well, and you know, plus
my ears in the military and things. But it's it's
really important for me though, just to talk to the competitors,
you know, especially new clubs and new people. That's been
the biggest thing right now. You know, it's not going
to matches and doing all things. I talk mostly on
the phone and just answer people's questions and encourage them.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Really, that's it.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Oh yeah, so what.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
What would you tell people? What does this division of
the INTERRA do, the.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Competitive Shooting Division. Yeah, so, I mean we've still got
our traditional sports, the legacy sports, the bullseye, the f class,
the high power, those are still there, and we've got
a team now that's growing. I don't know, this is
the story that really hasn't gotten out. The Competitive Shooting
Division had two people in it for many, many years,
and you're talking about eleven thousand sanctioned matches a year,
(04:15):
so it's easy to sit back on social media and
gripe eight scores eight getting in time. Well, there's only
two people doing those scores and they're trying to get
them right, trying to get classification cards out on time,
and there's a lot and even during COVID people were
still competing. They found ways to do that. But now
in the last year, they've hired myself, We've brought on
a traditional shooting sports manager. We now have a new
(04:36):
tournament operations manager. We've got some more part time people
coming on board, and we're launching things. We're getting things up,
and we're also modernizing, you know, scoring systems. We brought
practice score into ARC. Can we do that with the
other shooting sports? So now those you know, ten eleven,
twelve thousand matches a year, can they get scored faster?
What can we do to help the clubs make it
(04:58):
easier on them? People talk about, you know those shooting
sports are aging out. Well, the competitors that used to are,
but now the people and the crew that used to
come up and help and volunteer, we need those younger
generations come in here. And what do they bring in? Technology?
They bring in apps, energy, youth and you know, eight
eighty three years old. When I get there, I don't
(05:18):
want to be slinging steel anymore. I want I want
some young kids to come in there and lift steel
and set up matches because yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Oh chayah, we're gonna have AI robots doing all that.
It's going to be great.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Bring it. I want it next year.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
The robots that will move the steel. That's what America wants.
Care about solving you know all these other things about
moving steel.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
How about robotic steel targets that we can just score themselves.
We say, competitor ready, beep, and then when the match
is over, they just go back to the barn.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yes, oh right, you guys go back to the barn.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Is that new technology issues? Could you imagine that? That'd
be awesome?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Seems very doable.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I mean, don't call me. I'm just a guy who
talks on TV and stuff, so I don't know any
about them.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
But you know, but people are listening right now, and
we can say, hey, how can we make matches better,
easier to set up targets resetable? Yeah, let's make matches
more fun.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Well, you know, here's one thing I've always said for
anything in the world of guns, and certainly in the
world of competition shooting. We live in a world now
where people participate in experiences, life events, a lot of
under forty crowd. One of the reasons is it's very shareable.
Whatever the thing is, I'm gonna go ziplining or I'm
(06:28):
gonna go to I mean, you have restaurants and bars
that have a selfie wall in them. I mean you
literally have a backdrop like a step and repeat backdrop
in places of business to enable people to take pictures
of themselves to say I was here, tag this location.
And there's nothing more sharable than shooting a gun. I mean,
(06:50):
when someone goes and shoots a gun, they take pictures
and they share that out. When they shoot a gun
for the first time, what do they do. They turn
to their friends and they smile. I mean, it's the best.
It's the best. So you guys are I don't want
to bury the lead here. You guys have a brand
new competition that you've created to kind of help bring
(07:11):
more people in, make it easy, make it fun. Talk
about nra ARC.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It's a giant funnel, Okay, if we can really think
about it as the funnel the other action shooting sports.
They don't have a and not criticizing them. They don't
have a training component. The biggest inhibitor to bringing new
people in is that fear. I don't want to mess up.
So how do we bring them in an easy, safe
(07:38):
manner that's fun, enjoyable and crawl walk round. Okay, So
the Americans Rifle Challenge, and when I say funnel if
they come in to shoot the American's Rifle Challenge, because
now there's this new type and new format where you
can go and learn and not be out there in
the big swimming pool. But then they say, you know what,
I really love competitive shooting. And then they're like, maybe
you know what, I want to go shoot air rifles.
(08:00):
Maybe I want to get into precision, right, I want
to shoot man.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Arc.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I got to go out and I shot my rifle.
I usually shoot at indoor range. I got to go
out and shoot it a steel at one hundred yards
of stage four level one arc. I got to use
a six position barricade. Go back, man. You know what
last time I shot it? I shot at twelve all
twelve hits. I made it, you know, And between you
and your buddies friends, whatnot. You can challenge yourself. But now,
well that was at one hundred yards. Man, I saw
(08:24):
this other sport. These guys were shooting out to twelve
hundred yards right, So for me, this says competitive shooting sports. Okay,
I am the ARC program manager. I want ARC to
just really grow. But truthfully, what I want to grow
is the competitive shooting sports altogether, because that's what we need.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So many people bought have bought guns. More people have
bought guns in the last what ten twelve years than
they have in those I don't know. Ever, it was
just crazy and look a lot of it was driven
by pick something Y two km's gonna take my guns, COVID,
(09:04):
you know, watching too much Fox News. Whatever the symptom is,
they went out and bought a handgun or several, or
an ar or several. But that's great. I'm glad that
there's a lot of gun owners out there. But I
keep saying, no, no, no, no, we want you to go shooting.
You've been hoarding AMMO, Go shoot the AMMO. By the way,
(09:25):
Amo's cheap and it's ready, it's readily available. You can
replace that AMMO. Don't be a hoarder too much. A
little bit, but not too much. Right. It's what's fun
is the shooting of the gun, not the oh it's
in my closet collecting dust. That's not that fun. And
so you guys are creating a way to go, hey,
dust off that ar that you bought that you haven't
(09:47):
been using, or like you said, Chad, or you take
it out once a month or whatever, and you go
shoot twenty five yards. That's your indoor range. Even though
you and I both love shooting guns, that could start
getting a little stale some people, right, they're like, I'm
looking for more, I'm looking for something else.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Well, if it gets stale, why is it getting stale?
Because you're not shooting with friends, you're not challenging yourself.
But what if we made arc to work in a
twenty five yard range? And we did that, we have
reduced targets. Also, we allow pistol caliber carbings. So maybe
you don't want to dig into your rifle AMMO stash pile,
but I could use my rim fire pile. That's a
training pile. So when we expanded this out, we allowed
(10:27):
pistol caliber carbines and all the formats, so nine millimeters
forty forty five and whatever. We didn't limit it there,
but we also added rim fire. So now I can
take my kids out, I can take you know, and
shoot more economically in that wood. The other part to
it is, now, if I'm in Florida and it's the
middle of August, it's hot outside right here, we are
(10:49):
in Louisiana, it's hot outside.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Now in Indo Orange, is sound pretty good? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
So yeah, so we can do that. Plus if we're
in the northeast and it's wintertime, you know, I don't
want to go slip on the ice setting up my steak.
But we can still do that. But you're exactly right.
People have it in the safe, they have it sitting
in their closets, but or they only shoot it on
the booth. I'm sorry, they shoot in the booth, or
they shoot from the site in bench. What's the full
capabilities of it? So now it's looking at the entire program.
(11:17):
You're up close, you're doing some regular manipulation drills, multi
target engagements, reset drills, transitions, and then reloads, and then
you're doing some sustained fire all at ten yards. Why
because everybody wants to look at their targets anyway, ten
yards away you can actually see them. But you're also
learning a fun thing called offset, and some of your
guys found that out this week. And then let's go
(11:38):
back and let's work on positions, basic positions, standing, kneeling, prone, sitting,
try it out and then go ring in the steel
and then we'll shoot on the move. Can't do it
on the bench, can't do it in indoor range. So
now we get a little bit of movement in there,
and people understand what competition is with their friends. You're
shooting on the line. But that makes it fun, It
makes it enjoyable. Some of my best friends I met shooting,
(12:01):
you know, and lifelong fronts plus we travel to different
matches together. But again, my part right now is still
building the match and watching others come up and shoot
those stages. Long before this, we shot IPA matches. We
set up elaborate scenarios. I mean, I've built full on
gas stations inside of ranges and duck blinds and restaurants
(12:21):
and getting the family involved. My daughters are cutting center
pieces out and origami and Tom Yost was running the
indoor National Championship. He walks up and he goes Chad,
there's a problem with this stage. And I'm looking at
it and like, it's go time. You know. Staff is here,
cameras are here, competitors are here, We're ready to go.
And he goes, there's only one target. I'm like, yeah,
we're looking around. It's a restaurant scene. There's only one
(12:43):
bad guy. And he goes. But it works and he
walked out and everybody walked in and they're like, what
are you building here? There's a full dining room, you know.
And the sponsors loved it too, because we soaked whiskey bottles,
took the labels off, put a Smith and Wison sticker
on it, other HK stick er, Turrest sticker, all the
different brands.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
That's fun. And yeah, well, I mean, so yesterday we
were filming some stuff with ARC because we wanted to
for our audience, we wanted to cover what the heck
is this new competition that this shooting competition that's been
created by the NA NRA ARC. So we're filming some
videos of what's this? Like what are you gonna what
(13:22):
are you gonna do when you go to an NAR competition?
And so this is the funny thing. I wasn't supposed to.
I was gonna be helping, but I wasn't. I didn't
think I was gonna be shooting, but they needed another
person on the line to run this course of fire.
Yesterday I said, Ryan, you're gonna shoot the whole level
one course of fire, and so okay, I'll go grab
(13:42):
a gun. And like you said, we're doing the ten
yard stuff. I'm working on offset multiple targets. We're doing
the shooting and moving and it's pretty I would say,
it's a very straightforward course of fire from this this
basic level one that we ran. It's on one hundred
yard range and we did ten yards. We did twenty
(14:03):
five to fifteen one hundred yards shooting off the barricade.
But as I would say, straightforward as it is, it's
still challenging. And it was a whole lot of fun.
I mean, I'd shot for a couple hours and I
was like, wow, I got to shoot guns today, and
like it wasn't like me trying to think about what
(14:23):
to say on camera. It was just like we're just
shooting guns here. I shot it with just an unmagnified
just red dot and some people were shooting with magnified
optics but super approachable. I think it is something that
anyone could bring their rifle out make it, you know,
as long as this thing is cided in and you
could run this course of fire. And you said it
(14:45):
doesn't take that long to run an arc match.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Without all the filming and fun stuff. Yeah, yeah, you
can actually go to that. And that's the other part too, competition.
Sometimes you go there and you're there all day. You
can show up to an arc match and if it's
a Level one format, which is basically what we're talking
about now, and you can shoot it less than two hours.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
How many do you know, off the top of your head,
how many rounds?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
About under one hundred sound five to twenty round boxes.
That's affordable things like that, And that's why the pccs
so fine, because that's just two boxes a nine millimeter. Yeah,
that's what most people can do. What do we need?
A gun, a sling, four magazines and one hundred rounds,
set of hearing protection, eye protection. Everybody's got that. They
got it when they bought their gun. They might have
multiple sets because they bought a set, like you said earlier,
(15:26):
during Y two K, they bought another one during Obama,
they bought another one during COVID and then they're like, oh,
what's this new three hundred blackout caliber? And I'm gonna
got one of those two cause I not gonna HNT
with it. And what's the other thing that's coming up
now soon too? Though? Suppressor tax Right, sure, this is
a suppressor friendly thing. So now we got more stuff,
more toys.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Very cool. Well, I know you've put on a lot
of shooting competitions and events over the years. I want
to hear more about that. Right after the break back
in nineteen ninety nine, Black Hills Ammunition started developing the
Mark two six two Mod one CE for the US Navy.
It's a five to five to six military precision round
and now it's available to you. Comes in military AMO
(16:07):
cans containing four hundred and sixty rounds of twenty round cartons.
And the big deal here is accuracy. Ten groups of
ten shots each at three hundred yards and that has
to shoot a sub two inch group. That is crazy accurate.
Blackhill's ammunition, the power of performance tokerev USA is known
(16:27):
for bringing dependable, feature packed shotguns and accessories to American
shooters at a price that's hard to beat. With a
focus on tactical function and modern styling. The tookrev lineup
includes magazine fed, semi auto, compact bullpups and rugged pump
action models, all backed by a growing catalog of OEM
(16:48):
parts and upgrades. Tookerev USA on an AR, then it's
time to really learn what it can do. The NRA's
America's Rifle Challenge or ARC is the ultimate way to
train and test your skills and compete safely with your
AR style rifle. Whether you're a new owner or a
seasoned pro, ARC offers progressive training and fun action field
(17:12):
matches from ten yards to four hundred rim fire PCC
and suppressors are welcome. It's time to get out of
the booth or off the siding bench and pressure test
yourself and your setup in competition. Find an event or
start your own at RC dot NRA dot org. That's
RC dot NRA dot org, and if you're a gun club,
(17:33):
reach out to host an ARC event at your range.
The twenty twenty six Winter sectionals are fast approaching. NRAARC
What if you could be significantly better with your firearms
in a short time. At Range Ready Studios, we offer
handgun and rifle classes to help you be the best.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
You can be.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
You'll be safer, more competent, and just better at the range.
We also offer special experience classes which include the gun,
the the gear, and the training. Learn more at range
ready studios dot com. So, Chad, you've been at this
a while, You've worked in the gun industry. You've put
(18:12):
on a lot of events. That's got to be so
involved to put on a big shooting match. I mean,
when I see it done, I'm going, Holy moly, how
does you even put together all these stages and targets
and plan all this out? I mean, I bet you
have stories for days about that.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Blessing and favor and a whole lot of help from
other people, family events, things like that.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
But yeah, I mean, you guys really run a lot
of these shooting events run on a lot of volunteers, right.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
It's all volunteer driven. We couldn't do without it. So
that's the best part is to bring people in as competitors,
get them involved, and then they like, hey, i'd like
to do this cool, come on out next Saturday. Help
us set up, and then they get involved. And most
of the times what clubs do, though, give you a
discount if you help work it. Yeah, so now what
I can do, I can spend more money and ammo
when I get to shoot the match for free and
the match gets to be there because there's more people,
(19:04):
many hands make for light work.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Is That is a pro tip for anyone listening, like, hey,
you volunteer or you shoot the Uh what are they?
It's the range officer match, the RO match beforehand. Yeah,
so staff match or whatever.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
My entry fee's gone, I don't have to pay for lodging,
give me a meal card, you know, and I get
shoot the match for free and I still get a
prize table. All I had to pay for was my
gas to drive up there. And what do we do?
We grab four other people and we carpooled.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah. There rifinitely are some hacks when you start getting
into it, and there has to be because these guys
that get when you get bitten by the bug of
whatever that particular shooting discipline is, then you're like, I
got to figure out ways to save money on this stuff.
So what are their questions pop up for you guys
(19:52):
on the terra arc. What are people asking about?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
They want to know where to shoot it and right
now because it's just launched in August, and we're trying
to get more clubs to participate. So we're trying to
build that twenty twenty six calendar. And right now, you know,
there's a lot of clubs that are doing you know
this on this Saturday and then something else on the
fourth Saturday. So to try to insert that. That's why
we need more volunteers and we need more clubs. But
as a transition from other sports or their growing club
(20:18):
or the retail facility, what a way to make revenue
for their facility or way, what a great way to
make revenue for the club. If you need to put
in a new set of stairs at your club, Boom,
there it is. It just paid for a self or
a wheelchair accessible ramps. Because we want shooting accessible for everyone. Right,
So people are.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Going to ask so the arc America's Rifle Challenge. They're
going to say, so this is like an ar thing?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Not really? Well, yes, so you.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Can bring your AR but you can bring a different gun.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Well, if we were at Illinois, what will we shoot it?
What we we shoot with? Is mayar allowed in Illinois?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I think you're allowed like a long in Illinois. I
think that's what.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
So basically you're you're actually right. Look, dust off whatever
you got Ryan and bring it. You know, if you've
got a foul in three oh eight and you want
to shoot three o eight ammal rock on.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Let's so basically a semi auto mag fed gun. Is
that kind of the deal.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
In those calibers. Okay, we don't want any exotic calibers,
and that's mostly because of the steel and things like that.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Okay, so we don't want fifty bmger a new shooter.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I mean, if you want to break out the drum
set and we'll rock on with a belt fed, different match,
but there'd be a fun match too. Yeah, don't pop
any more ideas in my head because I'm still trying
to get this one built.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Up, I know, and you're liable to go do it.
You're liable to go, oh, we could do that.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I've got a few more in my head right now.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
We're talking about.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Actually, you know, we're having fun with this because the
level ones what we've been focused on and in filming
right now. But the Level two, which is more of
your running gun, which you have different targets for. We
also have ARC two gun okay, and if people want
pistol rifle pistel. Okay, so transit because most people already
have a pistol. If they or a pistol competitor, maybe
they want to get in a rifle competition. But how
(22:03):
do I get into that? So drift off into arc,
get into level one, get all your positions down, get
the commands down, meet some friends, and then you start
getting ranges and facilities. They'll start hosting it, start doing
level twos. Now we can shoot it, steal up close
with their handguns or pistol, calder car beings, reach out
at distance for some of the other stuff, and have
(22:24):
some funds and make it challenging.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah. So in the you've been at this world of
competition for a while, what do you see changing? What
are the trends these days?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
More electronics?
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, better data, electronics on the guns, or electronics run
all of it.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Okay, let's just start out with the electronics of getting
to the match. Now I can find it because I've
got GPS and apps and everything else.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
And these ranges are in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I got to get there. But well, with that, though,
what happens Now I've got better data, I've got laser
range finders, I've got ballistic apps that'll do different things, but.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Just to straining.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, well, well yeah, some people still keep the old journal,
the training journals. I still I can still go back
and look at mine. I don't have electronic data book
yet for high power, but if I went back to it,
I'd be like wow, But no, it is changing, it's growing.
I mean, look at there's electronic targets out there now,
and that's what's helped with high power. That's what's keeping
high power alive. Right now, you can literally sit right
(23:21):
there at six hundred yards and look over at television
screen and you know there's your ex. Yeah, okay, all right,
I want to hit a three o'clock ex instead of
nine o'clock. Is the wind has changed? Click, and you
know you're not fighting through a scope or having to
work the pits. You know, anybody that went to Paras
Island remembers the pits so well.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
And really, I think that if shooting competitions want to
keep up with the times, they need to encourage it,
not disallow it. Right, you got to encourage these new
divisions and these new ways of doing things.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Well, why do we have divisions though?
Speaker 1 (23:53):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Why do we have divisions?
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Dude, I don't know. I don't shoot competitions.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Well, I mean, but everybody's got a different setup. You know.
I might want just my red dot, I might have
a one by eight, or I might have Wait a minute,
what's the open division requirements?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Somebody put it like three to twenty and I'm like,
what if I have a twenty five parscope and you're
gonna limit me? Open means open.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
So, but we did have to write in the rule book,
believe it or not. Okay, rules are written one time
one because somebody did it in the past, right, That's why.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Rules are there. Yeah, this is a weird rule. Well,
let me tell you this is why.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I was written. Yeah. Well, I got a little funny
when I was writing the rules, and I actually for
the open division, I do have some restrictions. Okay, did
you read it yet?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I didn't see Chris Corner meek, because can I put
this on my gun? Can I put this on?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
You get?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Before you know it? You got the Swiss army knives
or rifles out there in the open division, right, So, yeah,
there are some restrictions in the open division okay. Under
mount shotguns will not be allowed in arc, all right?
Shot okay? Actually I think I just put under mount
firearms okay, so because there might be a pistol. So
I didn't want to say shotguns and under mount firearms banned. Okay,
I'm on there, no bayonets all right?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
There actually is.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
There is a rule that there's no chainsaws, So no
zombie chainsaws mounted underneath your rail, okay, and then just
to catch it, because I know there's flame throwers out there,
but I didn't want to put that in there. I
put in any other novelty devices deemed inappropriate for competitive shooting.
And I ran that up the chain and either they
didn't read it or they said cool, you know, so
(25:23):
it's gonna be lighthearted. But again, if we can't have
fun with shooting, oh my goodness, gracious, why are we
doing it?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
You know? But maybe is there a way to have
a flamethrower match? And how do you yeah, how do
you even score that? Chad? I don't know you it's
a hit or miss. There's no there's no you know,
accuracy requirement here.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I think no, no, no, you said it earlier. He
said he needed a tagline, right, yes, light the candle
so you can do Sorry, you just said flamethrow on
my all three candles.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Let move on, light and candle. You know.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
So then they say that when they launched the Apollo missions.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, yeah, so here we are.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
We're launching our light the candle. There's your tagline you got,
but that don't burn it down? I guess, well, yeah,
you can burn it down. You can burn the stage down.
Yeah sure so all right, dang it do I got
to change the rules now and allow flames doors. Do
you know what? Send me one to test so I
can do some dumb.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I know some people we've have. We have a flamethrower here,
shut up, yeah we do.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You got a can launcher two?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
You can go. Well, I don't have one of those.
I need to.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I can't find one. I want one.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
We I used to have a potato gun. You ever
do one of those?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
We can neither confirm nor deny those stories. We don't
want to. We don't. We don't want to make any
edits of my I.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Do have a story for you about potato guns. All right,
So so these so my dad was with a bunch
of gun riders out in the middle of a ranch
in Texas back when potato guns started becoming a thing
in the nineties. They're like, oh, this guy made this
potato gun. And then they are like, oh, that's fun,
(26:56):
and they well, why what is this? And they see
and they shoot the potato one hundred yards and then
they're like, Wow, what if you made like a sabo
out of a just a slice of potato, get a
good seal on it, and then we put a golf
ball in front of it. Dude, the golf it went off. Woof,
(27:19):
golf ball is gone. Like, don't know where it landed.
It's landed somewhere in Texas. But that's what happens when
you get the gun nerds mess around the ballistics of
potato guns. Sure it landed, maybe in orbit.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Sure you got some friends, make a phone, see if
it's spinning around.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And then you start messing around with different you know,
different loads, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Stealing your sister's hairspray, Yeah, I get it, Yeah, brake fuel,
whatever it is. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I don't know about that though.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Gee, what's the weirdest, craziest thing you've ever seen at
a match?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Wow? Maybe slept through that file. Thing craziest, weirdest thing
something I didn't do. Walked into an indoor range inside
the shooting bay and there's a large panel van inside there.
I'm like looking at the door, going, that's a three
to zero door. Everybody kind of looked around like, how
(28:20):
the heck did this happen? So it wasn't my stage,
but it was at the indoor Nationals. And then as
they looked through, they're like, wait a minute, every bay
was converted over something, So just how did that happen?
How do you get a fourteen foot canoe through there
and whatnot? And then we didn't take it apart either,
so but.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
How did this happen?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Magic? How do you get a panel van inside take
it apart piece by piece?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Did you really? I didn't?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Somebody else did?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah, but it worked, you know it is it's kind
of like almost doesn't even make sense, and I'm glad
it doesn't. The amount of effort that match directors will
go to to put together interesting fun stages for matches.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Don't panic. Just surround yourself with good people and also
don't get crazy. You know. The EDC Championships was born
on what do we do every day, you know, So
I don't need to make this crazy scenario where I'm
attacked by Gang A nine and we double tap everybody. Okay,
we run around walls and all that stuff. Now I
have to go get my tires rotated. I'm going to
the garage. Make a garage scenario. I have to go
(29:28):
to the gas station. Make a gas station scenario. Make
it what you would encounter if it's a defensive type
of match. But I mean, you know, we just did
the World Shooting Championships. How many shooting sports are represented there?
Speaker 1 (29:39):
It was like a dozen or more?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, twelve, plus we had all the side matches. So
Chris said it, best chances are you're never going to
be on top shot. This is the closest you're ever
going to come to being on it. Come out and
shoot the match. And I still to this day don't
know how I got to be an as system match
director and now for twenty twenty six to be the
match director.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Very cool.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
It still doesn't even seem real. Because we got the
phone call, hey can you fly out to Indiana tomorrow?
And that's how it started. We hit the ground. We
were on ground for almost a month. And it's like, Okay,
we're gonna have a biathlon stage. We're gonna have an
IDPA stage at usbsa stage, a Cowboy Action stage, a
PRS stage. I mean there was everything fee task What
is fe tesk? I had to go look that up. Yeah,
(30:18):
and then oh, by the way, you're gonna sit in
every one of these guns and all the competitors are
gonna shoot them. Yeah. So it's either gonna go really
early well and Chad's gonna be the hero, or it's
gonna be oh sighted these things and he didn't know
what he's talking about.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
You know, well, you always had that albi because you
didn't cite it in you know well, that was the
Mulligan card.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
And the Mulligan card was the match director's worst nightmare
because everybody went in the Cowboy Action stage and they're like,
I'm gonna use my Mulligan card. You can use it
for whatever you want it so you can shoot it again. Okay,
what do we use to do to match director math
if everybody wanted to shoot it, we just doubled the
match because everybody wanted to shoot that stage or this right.
So now instead of getting dark at the time, it's
(30:57):
supposed to get a dark and match being over and
everybody being home and shout and relaxing and having you know,
a nice tea. Yeah, we're doing it again. So we
got rid of Mulligan's.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, it's just hard to run certain things like that.
I was going to ask you, I mean, what's like
the biggest mistake you've seen in someone putting together a
shooting match.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Trying to get too elaborate? Yeah, too many moving parts.
We called it the mouse trap. Yeah, and you fell
for the trap. Keep it simple, sweet, Here we go,
duck blind, great stage. What's the failure points? And we
found out what the failure points are going to be?
Three hundred resets. One competitor needed to reset.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
That was it?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Oh? Really everything flowed really well. But what did we
do before that? We found all those problems, we learned
from them. We kept not just a diary or journal
of my shooting experience. When I got done with the match,
here's my stage brief. What would you do differently, knowing
what you know now if I didn't write it down
right there? Okay? And then when you're designing the state,
(32:00):
put up your whiteboord for six months? Okay, here's what
your stages are going.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
To be, and you run the stage. Once you have
it set up, you run it to see if there
are any problems.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I imagine I run it right in my brain.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
But do you guys, like, Okay, let's do like a
practice run and see does this work like I think
it will well.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
When you build it on site though sometimes you're designing
this in Maryland and you're building it in Indiana or whatever.
So what do we do? But what do you do?
Two is one to one is none? So I better
have two swingers. I better have two shooting stars. What
happens if it fell off the forklift and I just
broke an arm?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Right?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
You know?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
And what does that do to change the stage? Change
the round count? Oh? No, the reload point was here,
you know. But I love the fact of give every
make a stage doable. Okay, if it's going to come
up and be so hard that only the experts and
masters are going to really have a fun time on it,
who's our what's our greatest bubble there? It's always the
(32:54):
sharp shooters, the mid level shooters. So if they have
fun at it's a challenge for them. But given out
for the map. Here's what the master's going to take
a risk. They're going to run by, they're going to
take this target on the move, or they're going to
shoot this activator, shoot two statics and then hit the mover.
The novice shooter is going to go over here, shoot
that activator. Go over to that mover real quick, watch
(33:14):
it pop up and wait for it. Ambush it, okay,
and then I'll go go back. So make an avenue
for that. There's a lot of different ways to do it.
But I also like knowing and thinking what a competitor's
going to do. So if it's Jerry, mclick, here's how
Jerry's going to shoot it. Sure, And here's how this
person's gonna shoot.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
This is what I think they're probably going to do right.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
At this point in time. Now I can actually there's
people I said, this is how Jerry's going to shoot
and they're like, how you know. I'm like, because I
know how Jerry's going to shoot it, and Jerry shot
it exactly, and they're like, what clairvoyant.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
No.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But I like doing sucker bets too. I'll draw somebody
into something. I'll put a non threat in a certain spot,
you know, and they'll be like, take a risk reward
the other thing I did and they didn't find out
until later. But this year at the World Shooting Championships,
for the air gun stage, we shooting air pistols this
year on electronic targets. Everybody had a black We had
(34:00):
hammerly ap twenties. Yeah, and some of the folks had
never shot an air gun before in their life. And
typically for the World Shooting Championships, you get two confirmation
shots to make sure the zero's there, it functions, and
then you accept the firearm. For the competition for bullseye pistol,
we let them shoot five rounds for a group. Here's
my hold for air pistol, I said, give them unlimited.
(34:24):
Here's your block time fifteen minutes. Yeah, ten rounds for
record score, twenty rounds for practice and zero. If you
were a smart person, you shot your five pellets and
then you press the button for record score. Some people
are like, I came here to shoot, I'm shooting all
twenty for practice. I'm gonna get zoned.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
In one hitted shooting.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah, take your remote control, put it in your hand
and hold it out there for fifteen minutes. Tired, Yeah, Yeah,
And there were people I didn't have to shoot all
twenty of those. I said no, I said, it's a
block time, you could shoot two three fifteen. So those
people are like you son of a gun. So yeah,
But I was the match director though at the indoor
Nashes and at the IDPA National Championships in twenty eighteen.
(35:06):
Not a proud moment, but I think I still hold
the record for the match director to designed courses with
the most number of non threats hit. Oh really yep,
and not because I made it like an impossible stupid shot,
but you had to take time, and I wanted to
slow the masters down and make them shoot to their
and make the other shoot to their abilities. Yeah, and
(35:27):
at the end of the day, it's all competition. But
for folks who care for real, they need to understand
that every round were responsible for.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Well, this is IDPA.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
You said, this is that was IDP.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah. I mean so that's like the perfect thing, right, Like, yes,
the target will dictate how fast you can shoot it.
And that's not my words. I've heard that from some
smart shooter guy, but I mean, if the target is
a two inch target, for dramatic example, you're going to
shoot that at a different pace than a ten inch target,
(35:59):
and if you don't slow down, you're going to screw up.
You're going to shoot a no shoot or whatever that is.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Thankfully it's just a penalty there though.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
But well, going to arc now, taking all those little
things we talked about, how do we make people shoot faster, slower?
What do we do? How big is the X ring
on an AP one target? Bynanchy cup target? I don't know,
four inches? The arc target you had today was four
inches the inner right, so it's a four eight and twelve.
The eight is all black, so is that inner four.
(36:30):
But that was the down zero So if you hit
that inner circle was down zero. The further you got
out into the eight inch it was down one point.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
It's a simple target. I like that because, especially if
you're going to bring new people in, they don't want
complicated targets. They don't want complicated stages. I don't mind
it being challenging, but as far as the course of
fire goes, you don't want to have them to have
to think about like the game of this, you know,
you just want to try to think about your shooting.
So twentys, we're we're almost a twenty twenty six. You
(36:58):
guys are lining out of vents for twenty twenty six.
People can go find it online and just look up
NRA ARC I imagine, and find an event near them.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yes, how about this, find it, say we wanted our club,
call me up, I'll walk you through the process. We
want it at the clubs. The biggest thing we're searching
for right now is places to hold larger events, regional championship,
a national championship, to have that girl. But if the
club level, that's where it has to succeed, because we
want people to go shoot those monthly matches if the
club wants to host it. So that right now is
(37:28):
what I need. Right now, I need clubs to reach
out and say we want to host this for our people.
I want competitors to say, I just saw that, I
want to go shoot it. That looks interesting. I've got
five or six buddies. Let's go do it and they
can well it can email us and we'll set them up.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Okay, well perfect. Then you know a shooting range, a
shooting club, a gun store with a range. Could it all?
Do this? Drive traffic to their location, drive some revenue,
and of course this is. This is a new thing.
NRA is putting a lot of promotion behind it, so
they're driving people to go check this out. Chad, thanks
(38:05):
for being with us. This is cool, NRA RC and welcome.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Hope to see you on the range soon shooting it again.
See if you can do better this time.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, now I know what to do, Chris will help you,
easy enough. All right, that's it for us. Thanks for listening,
thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. On Gun Technique,
How did this happen?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Magic?
Speaker 1 (00:03):
How do you get a panel van inside?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Take it apart piece by piece?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Did you really?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I did? Somebody else did? Yeah? But it worked.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is Guntognation. Guntognation is
brought to you by Range Ready, Blackhells Ammunition, n RA
(00:38):
ARC and TOKAEV. Hey welcome into Guntognation. We all like
shooting guns and a lot of you guys like competition,
and sometimes new shooting competitions are created. So we're going
to talk about that today and a lot of other
things here with Chad Barber from the INTERRA. How do
(01:00):
you say it, Chad? NRA Shooting Competition's.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Division, Competitive Shooting Division.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Competitive Shooting Division. That's better than what I said.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Says it differently on my shirt, but it is the
competitive shooting.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Division, all right, the competitive shooting division. Because a lot
of people think they know NRA. Yeah, TERRA, they're like
the gun rights guys, they're the you know, they're the
guys who are always fundraising or whatever. But there are
a lot of divisions of the TERRA that I think
a lot of people don't even know about.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Don't you think I've been an employee since January, and
I'm still trying to figure out the list so I
can talk to people about it, because I mean, growing up,
my dad, you know, had the American Hunter, the American rifleman.
He had his orange NRA Freedom hat.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I was telling my friend the other day that I
remember being out in the summertime mowing the lawn, coming
out there, and I'm sitting there, like right now, I've
lost my dad several years ago, and I'm just thinking
about the day that I was out there and coming
back in and he's got that orange hat in the garage,
and man, his son works for the NRA. Right now,
how did I get here?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
That's cool?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That was just and I talked to my wife about
it the other day, and you know, it is a journey.
It's fun, but how now do we explain what the
NRA does. They do so much and like I said,
we just got here and it's growing. It is the
n RARA two point zero. We're having fun with it.
We're trying to make something new and exciting, modernizing shooting sports.
So there's a lot to come.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
And we've been talking about that a little bit on
the podcast. On our radio shows, of kind of we've
we've stayed in touch with the NRA all along. I mean,
some people don't even realize my dad, Tom Gresham, used
to work at the NRA way back in the day,
back in the early eighties.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I was reading those magazines. That's why I referenced to him.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So, I mean, we've we've been there and done that
and been on this journey. And we you know, at
gun Talk, we called them out when when stuff wasn't right,
and we we because I think we ought to say this.
You know, we're having a no, we're having a guy
from the NRA on the podcast. But would you said
you only been there since when January.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Got hired in at Shot show to take over a program.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But it's it's a different organization than what it was
in the past, right, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I wouldn't have came on board if it wasn't Yeah,
you know, but sometimes the only way you can fix
stuff is from the inside. So people can sit back
on the sidelines and gripe and complain, but let's be realistic.
Who's got the loudest voice out there right now who
can make change? Yeah, and if we don't support that,
you know, And plus I still want to compete, even
though I run a program now which doesn't allow me
to compete as much as I want to use.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
The least amount of shooting you do is when you're
actually working in.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Absolutely and I've been you know, I've been in the
industry prior to this as well, and you know, plus
my ears in the military and things. But it's it's
really important for me though, just to talk to the competitors,
you know, especially new clubs and new people. That's been
the biggest thing right now. You know, it's not going
to matches and doing all things. I talk mostly on
the phone and just answer people's questions and encourage them.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Really, that's it.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Oh yeah, so what.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
What would you tell people? What does this division of
the INTERRA do, the.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Competitive Shooting Division. Yeah, so, I mean we've still got
our traditional sports, the legacy sports, the bullseye, the f class,
the high power, those are still there, and we've got
a team now that's growing. I don't know, this is
the story that really hasn't gotten out. The Competitive Shooting
Division had two people in it for many, many years,
and you're talking about eleven thousand sanctioned matches a year,
(04:15):
so it's easy to sit back on social media and
gripe eight scores eight getting in time. Well, there's only
two people doing those scores and they're trying to get
them right, trying to get classification cards out on time,
and there's a lot and even during COVID people were
still competing. They found ways to do that. But now
in the last year, they've hired myself, We've brought on
a traditional shooting sports manager. We now have a new
(04:36):
tournament operations manager. We've got some more part time people
coming on board, and we're launching things. We're getting things up,
and we're also modernizing, you know, scoring systems. We brought
practice score into ARC. Can we do that with the
other shooting sports? So now those you know, ten eleven,
twelve thousand matches a year, can they get scored faster?
What can we do to help the clubs make it
(04:58):
easier on them? People talk about, you know those shooting
sports are aging out. Well, the competitors that used to are,
but now the people and the crew that used to
come up and help and volunteer, we need those younger
generations come in here. And what do they bring in? Technology?
They bring in apps, energy, youth and you know, eight
eighty three years old. When I get there, I don't
(05:18):
want to be slinging steel anymore. I want I want
some young kids to come in there and lift steel
and set up matches because yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Oh chayah, we're gonna have AI robots doing all that.
It's going to be great.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Bring it. I want it next year.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
The robots that will move the steel. That's what America wants.
Care about solving you know all these other things about
moving steel.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
How about robotic steel targets that we can just score themselves.
We say, competitor ready, beep, and then when the match
is over, they just go back to the barn.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yes, oh right, you guys go back to the barn.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Is that new technology issues? Could you imagine that? That'd
be awesome?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Seems very doable.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I mean, don't call me. I'm just a guy who
talks on TV and stuff, so I don't know any
about them.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
But you know, but people are listening right now, and
we can say, hey, how can we make matches better,
easier to set up targets resetable? Yeah, let's make matches
more fun.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Well, you know, here's one thing I've always said for
anything in the world of guns, and certainly in the
world of competition shooting. We live in a world now
where people participate in experiences, life events, a lot of
under forty crowd. One of the reasons is it's very shareable.
Whatever the thing is, I'm gonna go ziplining or I'm
(06:28):
gonna go to I mean, you have restaurants and bars
that have a selfie wall in them. I mean you
literally have a backdrop like a step and repeat backdrop
in places of business to enable people to take pictures
of themselves to say I was here, tag this location.
And there's nothing more sharable than shooting a gun. I mean,
(06:50):
when someone goes and shoots a gun, they take pictures
and they share that out. When they shoot a gun
for the first time, what do they do. They turn
to their friends and they smile. I mean, it's the best.
It's the best. So you guys are I don't want
to bury the lead here. You guys have a brand
new competition that you've created to kind of help bring
(07:11):
more people in, make it easy, make it fun. Talk
about nra ARC.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It's a giant funnel, Okay, if we can really think
about it as the funnel the other action shooting sports.
They don't have a and not criticizing them. They don't
have a training component. The biggest inhibitor to bringing new
people in is that fear. I don't want to mess up.
So how do we bring them in an easy, safe
(07:38):
manner that's fun, enjoyable and crawl walk round. Okay, So
the Americans Rifle Challenge, and when I say funnel if
they come in to shoot the American's Rifle Challenge, because
now there's this new type and new format where you
can go and learn and not be out there in
the big swimming pool. But then they say, you know what,
I really love competitive shooting. And then they're like, maybe
you know what, I want to go shoot air rifles.
(08:00):
Maybe I want to get into precision, right, I want
to shoot man.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Arc.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I got to go out and I shot my rifle.
I usually shoot at indoor range. I got to go
out and shoot it a steel at one hundred yards
of stage four level one arc. I got to use
a six position barricade. Go back, man. You know what
last time I shot it? I shot at twelve all
twelve hits. I made it, you know, And between you
and your buddies friends, whatnot. You can challenge yourself. But now,
well that was at one hundred yards. Man, I saw
(08:24):
this other sport. These guys were shooting out to twelve
hundred yards right, So for me, this says competitive shooting sports. Okay,
I am the ARC program manager. I want ARC to
just really grow. But truthfully, what I want to grow
is the competitive shooting sports altogether, because that's what we need.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So many people bought have bought guns. More people have
bought guns in the last what ten twelve years than
they have in those I don't know. Ever, it was
just crazy and look a lot of it was driven
by pick something Y two km's gonna take my guns, COVID,
(09:04):
you know, watching too much Fox News. Whatever the symptom is,
they went out and bought a handgun or several, or
an ar or several. But that's great. I'm glad that
there's a lot of gun owners out there. But I
keep saying, no, no, no, no, we want you to go shooting.
You've been hoarding AMMO, Go shoot the AMMO. By the way,
(09:25):
Amo's cheap and it's ready, it's readily available. You can
replace that AMMO. Don't be a hoarder too much. A
little bit, but not too much. Right. It's what's fun
is the shooting of the gun, not the oh it's
in my closet collecting dust. That's not that fun. And
so you guys are creating a way to go, hey,
dust off that ar that you bought that you haven't
(09:47):
been using, or like you said, Chad, or you take
it out once a month or whatever, and you go
shoot twenty five yards. That's your indoor range. Even though
you and I both love shooting guns, that could start
getting a little stale some people, right, they're like, I'm
looking for more, I'm looking for something else.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Well, if it gets stale, why is it getting stale?
Because you're not shooting with friends, you're not challenging yourself.
But what if we made arc to work in a
twenty five yard range? And we did that, we have
reduced targets. Also, we allow pistol caliber carbings. So maybe
you don't want to dig into your rifle AMMO stash pile,
but I could use my rim fire pile. That's a
training pile. So when we expanded this out, we allowed
(10:27):
pistol caliber carbines and all the formats, so nine millimeters
forty forty five and whatever. We didn't limit it there,
but we also added rim fire. So now I can
take my kids out, I can take you know, and
shoot more economically in that wood. The other part to
it is, now, if I'm in Florida and it's the
middle of August, it's hot outside right here, we are
(10:49):
in Louisiana, it's hot outside.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Now in Indo Orange, is sound pretty good? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
So yeah, so we can do that. Plus if we're
in the northeast and it's wintertime, you know, I don't
want to go slip on the ice setting up my steak.
But we can still do that. But you're exactly right.
People have it in the safe, they have it sitting
in their closets, but or they only shoot it on
the booth. I'm sorry, they shoot in the booth, or
they shoot from the site in bench. What's the full
capabilities of it? So now it's looking at the entire program.
(11:17):
You're up close, you're doing some regular manipulation drills, multi
target engagements, reset drills, transitions, and then reloads, and then
you're doing some sustained fire all at ten yards. Why
because everybody wants to look at their targets anyway, ten
yards away you can actually see them. But you're also
learning a fun thing called offset, and some of your
guys found that out this week. And then let's go
(11:38):
back and let's work on positions, basic positions, standing, kneeling, prone, sitting,
try it out and then go ring in the steel
and then we'll shoot on the move. Can't do it
on the bench, can't do it in indoor range. So
now we get a little bit of movement in there,
and people understand what competition is with their friends. You're
shooting on the line. But that makes it fun, It
makes it enjoyable. Some of my best friends I met shooting,
(12:01):
you know, and lifelong fronts plus we travel to different
matches together. But again, my part right now is still
building the match and watching others come up and shoot
those stages. Long before this, we shot IPA matches. We
set up elaborate scenarios. I mean, I've built full on
gas stations inside of ranges and duck blinds and restaurants
(12:21):
and getting the family involved. My daughters are cutting center
pieces out and origami and Tom Yost was running the
indoor National Championship. He walks up and he goes Chad,
there's a problem with this stage. And I'm looking at
it and like, it's go time. You know. Staff is here,
cameras are here, competitors are here, We're ready to go.
And he goes, there's only one target. I'm like, yeah,
we're looking around. It's a restaurant scene. There's only one
(12:43):
bad guy. And he goes. But it works and he
walked out and everybody walked in and they're like, what
are you building here? There's a full dining room, you know.
And the sponsors loved it too, because we soaked whiskey bottles,
took the labels off, put a Smith and Wison sticker
on it, other HK stick er, Turrest sticker, all the
different brands.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
That's fun. And yeah, well, I mean, so yesterday we
were filming some stuff with ARC because we wanted to
for our audience, we wanted to cover what the heck
is this new competition that this shooting competition that's been
created by the NA NRA ARC. So we're filming some
videos of what's this? Like what are you gonna what
(13:22):
are you gonna do when you go to an NAR competition?
And so this is the funny thing. I wasn't supposed to.
I was gonna be helping, but I wasn't. I didn't
think I was gonna be shooting, but they needed another
person on the line to run this course of fire.
Yesterday I said, Ryan, you're gonna shoot the whole level
one course of fire, and so okay, I'll go grab
(13:42):
a gun. And like you said, we're doing the ten
yard stuff. I'm working on offset multiple targets. We're doing
the shooting and moving and it's pretty I would say,
it's a very straightforward course of fire from this this
basic level one that we ran. It's on one hundred
yard range and we did ten yards. We did twenty
(14:03):
five to fifteen one hundred yards shooting off the barricade.
But as I would say, straightforward as it is, it's
still challenging. And it was a whole lot of fun.
I mean, I'd shot for a couple hours and I
was like, wow, I got to shoot guns today, and
like it wasn't like me trying to think about what
(14:23):
to say on camera. It was just like we're just
shooting guns here. I shot it with just an unmagnified
just red dot and some people were shooting with magnified
optics but super approachable. I think it is something that
anyone could bring their rifle out make it, you know,
as long as this thing is cided in and you
could run this course of fire. And you said it
(14:45):
doesn't take that long to run an arc match.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Without all the filming and fun stuff. Yeah, yeah, you
can actually go to that. And that's the other part too, competition.
Sometimes you go there and you're there all day. You
can show up to an arc match and if it's
a Level one format, which is basically what we're talking
about now, and you can shoot it less than two hours.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
How many do you know, off the top of your head,
how many rounds?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
About under one hundred sound five to twenty round boxes.
That's affordable things like that, And that's why the pccs
so fine, because that's just two boxes a nine millimeter. Yeah,
that's what most people can do. What do we need?
A gun, a sling, four magazines and one hundred rounds,
set of hearing protection, eye protection. Everybody's got that. They
got it when they bought their gun. They might have
multiple sets because they bought a set, like you said earlier,
(15:26):
during Y two K, they bought another one during Obama,
they bought another one during COVID and then they're like, oh,
what's this new three hundred blackout caliber? And I'm gonna
got one of those two cause I not gonna HNT
with it. And what's the other thing that's coming up
now soon too? Though? Suppressor tax Right, sure, this is
a suppressor friendly thing. So now we got more stuff,
more toys.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Very cool. Well, I know you've put on a lot
of shooting competitions and events over the years. I want
to hear more about that. Right after the break back
in nineteen ninety nine, Black Hills Ammunition started developing the
Mark two six two Mod one CE for the US Navy.
It's a five to five to six military precision round
and now it's available to you. Comes in military AMO
(16:07):
cans containing four hundred and sixty rounds of twenty round cartons.
And the big deal here is accuracy. Ten groups of
ten shots each at three hundred yards and that has
to shoot a sub two inch group. That is crazy accurate.
Blackhill's ammunition, the power of performance tokerev USA is known
(16:27):
for bringing dependable, feature packed shotguns and accessories to American
shooters at a price that's hard to beat. With a
focus on tactical function and modern styling. The tookrev lineup
includes magazine fed, semi auto, compact bullpups and rugged pump
action models, all backed by a growing catalog of OEM
(16:48):
parts and upgrades. Tookerev USA on an AR, then it's
time to really learn what it can do. The NRA's
America's Rifle Challenge or ARC is the ultimate way to
train and test your skills and compete safely with your
AR style rifle. Whether you're a new owner or a
seasoned pro, ARC offers progressive training and fun action field
(17:12):
matches from ten yards to four hundred rim fire PCC
and suppressors are welcome. It's time to get out of
the booth or off the siding bench and pressure test
yourself and your setup in competition. Find an event or
start your own at RC dot NRA dot org. That's
RC dot NRA dot org, and if you're a gun club,
(17:33):
reach out to host an ARC event at your range.
The twenty twenty six Winter sectionals are fast approaching. NRAARC
What if you could be significantly better with your firearms
in a short time. At Range Ready Studios, we offer
handgun and rifle classes to help you be the best.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
You can be.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
You'll be safer, more competent, and just better at the range.
We also offer special experience classes which include the gun,
the the gear, and the training. Learn more at range
ready studios dot com. So, Chad, you've been at this
a while, You've worked in the gun industry. You've put
(18:12):
on a lot of events. That's got to be so
involved to put on a big shooting match. I mean,
when I see it done, I'm going, Holy moly, how
does you even put together all these stages and targets
and plan all this out? I mean, I bet you
have stories for days about that.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Blessing and favor and a whole lot of help from
other people, family events, things like that.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
But yeah, I mean, you guys really run a lot
of these shooting events run on a lot of volunteers, right.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
It's all volunteer driven. We couldn't do without it. So
that's the best part is to bring people in as competitors,
get them involved, and then they like, hey, i'd like
to do this cool, come on out next Saturday. Help
us set up, and then they get involved. And most
of the times what clubs do, though, give you a
discount if you help work it. Yeah, so now what
I can do, I can spend more money and ammo
when I get to shoot the match for free and
the match gets to be there because there's more people,
(19:04):
many hands make for light work.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Is That is a pro tip for anyone listening, like, hey,
you volunteer or you shoot the Uh what are they?
It's the range officer match, the RO match beforehand. Yeah,
so staff match or whatever.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
My entry fee's gone, I don't have to pay for lodging,
give me a meal card, you know, and I get
shoot the match for free and I still get a
prize table. All I had to pay for was my
gas to drive up there. And what do we do?
We grab four other people and we carpooled.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah. There rifinitely are some hacks when you start getting
into it, and there has to be because these guys
that get when you get bitten by the bug of
whatever that particular shooting discipline is, then you're like, I
got to figure out ways to save money on this stuff.
So what are their questions pop up for you guys
(19:52):
on the terra arc. What are people asking about?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
They want to know where to shoot it and right
now because it's just launched in August, and we're trying
to get more clubs to participate. So we're trying to
build that twenty twenty six calendar. And right now, you know,
there's a lot of clubs that are doing you know
this on this Saturday and then something else on the
fourth Saturday. So to try to insert that. That's why
we need more volunteers and we need more clubs. But
as a transition from other sports or their growing club
(20:18):
or the retail facility, what a way to make revenue
for their facility or way, what a great way to
make revenue for the club. If you need to put
in a new set of stairs at your club, Boom,
there it is. It just paid for a self or
a wheelchair accessible ramps. Because we want shooting accessible for everyone. Right,
So people are.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Going to ask so the arc America's Rifle Challenge. They're
going to say, so this is like an ar thing?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Not really? Well, yes, so you.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Can bring your AR but you can bring a different gun.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Well, if we were at Illinois, what will we shoot it?
What we we shoot with? Is mayar allowed in Illinois?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I think you're allowed like a long in Illinois. I
think that's what.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
So basically you're you're actually right. Look, dust off whatever
you got Ryan and bring it. You know, if you've
got a foul in three oh eight and you want
to shoot three o eight ammal rock on.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Let's so basically a semi auto mag fed gun. Is
that kind of the deal.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
In those calibers. Okay, we don't want any exotic calibers,
and that's mostly because of the steel and things like that.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Okay, so we don't want fifty bmger a new shooter.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I mean, if you want to break out the drum
set and we'll rock on with a belt fed, different match,
but there'd be a fun match too. Yeah, don't pop
any more ideas in my head because I'm still trying
to get this one built.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Up, I know, and you're liable to go do it.
You're liable to go, oh, we could do that.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I've got a few more in my head right now.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
We're talking about.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Actually, you know, we're having fun with this because the
level ones what we've been focused on and in filming
right now. But the Level two, which is more of
your running gun, which you have different targets for. We
also have ARC two gun okay, and if people want
pistol rifle pistel. Okay, so transit because most people already
have a pistol. If they or a pistol competitor, maybe
they want to get in a rifle competition. But how
(22:03):
do I get into that? So drift off into arc,
get into level one, get all your positions down, get
the commands down, meet some friends, and then you start
getting ranges and facilities. They'll start hosting it, start doing
level twos. Now we can shoot it, steal up close
with their handguns or pistol, calder car beings, reach out
at distance for some of the other stuff, and have
(22:24):
some funds and make it challenging.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah. So in the you've been at this world of
competition for a while, what do you see changing? What
are the trends these days?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
More electronics?
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, better data, electronics on the guns, or electronics run
all of it.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Okay, let's just start out with the electronics of getting
to the match. Now I can find it because I've
got GPS and apps and everything else.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
And these ranges are in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I got to get there. But well, with that, though,
what happens Now I've got better data, I've got laser
range finders, I've got ballistic apps that'll do different things, but.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Just to straining.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, well, well yeah, some people still keep the old journal,
the training journals. I still I can still go back
and look at mine. I don't have electronic data book
yet for high power, but if I went back to it,
I'd be like wow, But no, it is changing, it's growing.
I mean, look at there's electronic targets out there now,
and that's what's helped with high power. That's what's keeping
high power alive. Right now, you can literally sit right
(23:21):
there at six hundred yards and look over at television
screen and you know there's your ex. Yeah, okay, all right,
I want to hit a three o'clock ex instead of
nine o'clock. Is the wind has changed? Click, and you
know you're not fighting through a scope or having to
work the pits. You know, anybody that went to Paras
Island remembers the pits so well.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
And really, I think that if shooting competitions want to
keep up with the times, they need to encourage it,
not disallow it. Right, you got to encourage these new
divisions and these new ways of doing things.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Well, why do we have divisions though?
Speaker 1 (23:53):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Why do we have divisions?
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Dude, I don't know. I don't shoot competitions.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Well, I mean, but everybody's got a different setup. You know.
I might want just my red dot, I might have
a one by eight, or I might have Wait a minute,
what's the open division requirements?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Somebody put it like three to twenty and I'm like,
what if I have a twenty five parscope and you're
gonna limit me? Open means open.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
So, but we did have to write in the rule book,
believe it or not. Okay, rules are written one time
one because somebody did it in the past, right, That's why.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Rules are there. Yeah, this is a weird rule. Well,
let me tell you this is why.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I was written. Yeah. Well, I got a little funny
when I was writing the rules, and I actually for
the open division, I do have some restrictions. Okay, did
you read it yet?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I didn't see Chris Corner meek, because can I put
this on my gun? Can I put this on?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
You get?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Before you know it? You got the Swiss army knives
or rifles out there in the open division, right, So, yeah,
there are some restrictions in the open division okay. Under
mount shotguns will not be allowed in arc, all right?
Shot okay? Actually I think I just put under mount
firearms okay, so because there might be a pistol. So
I didn't want to say shotguns and under mount firearms banned. Okay,
I'm on there, no bayonets all right?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
There actually is.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
There is a rule that there's no chainsaws, So no
zombie chainsaws mounted underneath your rail, okay, and then just
to catch it, because I know there's flame throwers out there,
but I didn't want to put that in there. I
put in any other novelty devices deemed inappropriate for competitive shooting.
And I ran that up the chain and either they
didn't read it or they said cool, you know, so
(25:23):
it's gonna be lighthearted. But again, if we can't have
fun with shooting, oh my goodness, gracious, why are we
doing it?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
You know? But maybe is there a way to have
a flamethrower match? And how do you yeah, how do
you even score that? Chad? I don't know you it's
a hit or miss. There's no there's no you know,
accuracy requirement here.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I think no, no, no, you said it earlier. He
said he needed a tagline, right, yes, light the candle
so you can do Sorry, you just said flamethrow on
my all three candles.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Let move on, light and candle. You know.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
So then they say that when they launched the Apollo missions.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, yeah, so here we are.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
We're launching our light the candle. There's your tagline you got,
but that don't burn it down? I guess, well, yeah,
you can burn it down. You can burn the stage down.
Yeah sure so all right, dang it do I got
to change the rules now and allow flames doors. Do
you know what? Send me one to test so I
can do some dumb.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I know some people we've have. We have a flamethrower here,
shut up, yeah we do.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You got a can launcher two?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
You can go. Well, I don't have one of those.
I need to.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I can't find one. I want one.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
We I used to have a potato gun. You ever
do one of those?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
We can neither confirm nor deny those stories. We don't
want to. We don't. We don't want to make any
edits of my I.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Do have a story for you about potato guns. All right,
So so these so my dad was with a bunch
of gun riders out in the middle of a ranch
in Texas back when potato guns started becoming a thing
in the nineties. They're like, oh, this guy made this
potato gun. And then they are like, oh, that's fun,
(26:56):
and they well, why what is this? And they see
and they shoot the potato one hundred yards and then
they're like, Wow, what if you made like a sabo
out of a just a slice of potato, get a
good seal on it, and then we put a golf
ball in front of it. Dude, the golf it went off. Woof,
(27:19):
golf ball is gone. Like, don't know where it landed.
It's landed somewhere in Texas. But that's what happens when
you get the gun nerds mess around the ballistics of
potato guns. Sure it landed, maybe in orbit.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Sure you got some friends, make a phone, see if
it's spinning around.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And then you start messing around with different you know,
different loads, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Stealing your sister's hairspray, Yeah, I get it, Yeah, brake fuel,
whatever it is. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I don't know about that though.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Gee, what's the weirdest, craziest thing you've ever seen at
a match?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Wow? Maybe slept through that file. Thing craziest, weirdest thing
something I didn't do. Walked into an indoor range inside
the shooting bay and there's a large panel van inside there.
I'm like looking at the door, going, that's a three
to zero door. Everybody kind of looked around like, how
(28:20):
the heck did this happen? So it wasn't my stage,
but it was at the indoor Nationals. And then as
they looked through, they're like, wait a minute, every bay
was converted over something, So just how did that happen?
How do you get a fourteen foot canoe through there
and whatnot? And then we didn't take it apart either,
so but.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
How did this happen?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Magic? How do you get a panel van inside take
it apart piece by piece?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Did you really? I didn't?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Somebody else did?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah, but it worked, you know it is it's kind
of like almost doesn't even make sense, and I'm glad
it doesn't. The amount of effort that match directors will
go to to put together interesting fun stages for matches.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Don't panic. Just surround yourself with good people and also
don't get crazy. You know. The EDC Championships was born
on what do we do every day, you know, So
I don't need to make this crazy scenario where I'm
attacked by Gang A nine and we double tap everybody. Okay,
we run around walls and all that stuff. Now I
have to go get my tires rotated. I'm going to
the garage. Make a garage scenario. I have to go
(29:28):
to the gas station. Make a gas station scenario. Make
it what you would encounter if it's a defensive type
of match. But I mean, you know, we just did
the World Shooting Championships. How many shooting sports are represented there?
Speaker 1 (29:39):
It was like a dozen or more?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, twelve, plus we had all the side matches. So
Chris said it, best chances are you're never going to
be on top shot. This is the closest you're ever
going to come to being on it. Come out and
shoot the match. And I still to this day don't
know how I got to be an as system match
director and now for twenty twenty six to be the
match director.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Very cool.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
It still doesn't even seem real. Because we got the
phone call, hey can you fly out to Indiana tomorrow?
And that's how it started. We hit the ground. We
were on ground for almost a month. And it's like, Okay,
we're gonna have a biathlon stage. We're gonna have an
IDPA stage at usbsa stage, a Cowboy Action stage, a
PRS stage. I mean there was everything fee task What
is fe tesk? I had to go look that up. Yeah,
(30:18):
and then oh, by the way, you're gonna sit in
every one of these guns and all the competitors are
gonna shoot them. Yeah. So it's either gonna go really
early well and Chad's gonna be the hero, or it's
gonna be oh sighted these things and he didn't know
what he's talking about.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
You know, well, you always had that albi because you
didn't cite it in you know well, that was the
Mulligan card.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
And the Mulligan card was the match director's worst nightmare
because everybody went in the Cowboy Action stage and they're like,
I'm gonna use my Mulligan card. You can use it
for whatever you want it so you can shoot it again. Okay,
what do we use to do to match director math
if everybody wanted to shoot it, we just doubled the
match because everybody wanted to shoot that stage or this right.
So now instead of getting dark at the time, it's
(30:57):
supposed to get a dark and match being over and
everybody being home and shout and relaxing and having you know,
a nice tea. Yeah, we're doing it again. So we
got rid of Mulligan's.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, it's just hard to run certain things like that.
I was going to ask you, I mean, what's like
the biggest mistake you've seen in someone putting together a
shooting match.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Trying to get too elaborate? Yeah, too many moving parts.
We called it the mouse trap. Yeah, and you fell
for the trap. Keep it simple, sweet, Here we go,
duck blind, great stage. What's the failure points? And we
found out what the failure points are going to be?
Three hundred resets. One competitor needed to reset.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
That was it?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Oh? Really everything flowed really well. But what did we
do before that? We found all those problems, we learned
from them. We kept not just a diary or journal
of my shooting experience. When I got done with the match,
here's my stage brief. What would you do differently, knowing
what you know now if I didn't write it down
right there? Okay? And then when you're designing the state,
(32:00):
put up your whiteboord for six months? Okay, here's what
your stages are going.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
To be, and you run the stage. Once you have
it set up, you run it to see if there
are any problems.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I imagine I run it right in my brain.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
But do you guys, like, Okay, let's do like a
practice run and see does this work like I think
it will well.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
When you build it on site though sometimes you're designing
this in Maryland and you're building it in Indiana or whatever.
So what do we do? But what do you do?
Two is one to one is none? So I better
have two swingers. I better have two shooting stars. What
happens if it fell off the forklift and I just
broke an arm?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Right?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
You know?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
And what does that do to change the stage? Change
the round count? Oh? No, the reload point was here,
you know. But I love the fact of give every
make a stage doable. Okay, if it's going to come
up and be so hard that only the experts and
masters are going to really have a fun time on it,
who's our what's our greatest bubble there? It's always the
(32:54):
sharp shooters, the mid level shooters. So if they have
fun at it's a challenge for them. But given out
for the map. Here's what the master's going to take
a risk. They're going to run by, they're going to
take this target on the move, or they're going to
shoot this activator, shoot two statics and then hit the mover.
The novice shooter is going to go over here, shoot
that activator. Go over to that mover real quick, watch
(33:14):
it pop up and wait for it. Ambush it, okay,
and then I'll go go back. So make an avenue
for that. There's a lot of different ways to do it.
But I also like knowing and thinking what a competitor's
going to do. So if it's Jerry, mclick, here's how
Jerry's going to shoot it. Sure, And here's how this
person's gonna shoot.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
This is what I think they're probably going to do right.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
At this point in time. Now I can actually there's
people I said, this is how Jerry's going to shoot
and they're like, how you know. I'm like, because I
know how Jerry's going to shoot it, and Jerry shot
it exactly, and they're like, what clairvoyant.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
No.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But I like doing sucker bets too. I'll draw somebody
into something. I'll put a non threat in a certain spot,
you know, and they'll be like, take a risk reward
the other thing I did and they didn't find out
until later. But this year at the World Shooting Championships,
for the air gun stage, we shooting air pistols this
year on electronic targets. Everybody had a black We had
(34:00):
hammerly ap twenties. Yeah, and some of the folks had
never shot an air gun before in their life. And
typically for the World Shooting Championships, you get two confirmation
shots to make sure the zero's there, it functions, and
then you accept the firearm. For the competition for bullseye pistol,
we let them shoot five rounds for a group. Here's
my hold for air pistol, I said, give them unlimited.
(34:24):
Here's your block time fifteen minutes. Yeah, ten rounds for
record score, twenty rounds for practice and zero. If you
were a smart person, you shot your five pellets and
then you press the button for record score. Some people
are like, I came here to shoot, I'm shooting all
twenty for practice. I'm gonna get zoned.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
In one hitted shooting.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah, take your remote control, put it in your hand
and hold it out there for fifteen minutes. Tired, Yeah, Yeah,
And there were people I didn't have to shoot all
twenty of those. I said no, I said, it's a
block time, you could shoot two three fifteen. So those
people are like you son of a gun. So yeah,
But I was the match director though at the indoor
Nashes and at the IDPA National Championships in twenty eighteen.
(35:06):
Not a proud moment, but I think I still hold
the record for the match director to designed courses with
the most number of non threats hit. Oh really yep,
and not because I made it like an impossible stupid shot,
but you had to take time, and I wanted to
slow the masters down and make them shoot to their
and make the other shoot to their abilities. Yeah, and
(35:27):
at the end of the day, it's all competition. But
for folks who care for real, they need to understand
that every round were responsible for.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Well, this is IDPA.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
You said, this is that was IDP.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah. I mean so that's like the perfect thing, right, Like, yes,
the target will dictate how fast you can shoot it.
And that's not my words. I've heard that from some
smart shooter guy, but I mean, if the target is
a two inch target, for dramatic example, you're going to
shoot that at a different pace than a ten inch target,
(35:59):
and if you don't slow down, you're going to screw up.
You're going to shoot a no shoot or whatever that is.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Thankfully it's just a penalty there though.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
But well, going to arc now, taking all those little
things we talked about, how do we make people shoot faster, slower?
What do we do? How big is the X ring
on an AP one target? Bynanchy cup target? I don't know,
four inches? The arc target you had today was four
inches the inner right, so it's a four eight and twelve.
The eight is all black, so is that inner four.
(36:30):
But that was the down zero So if you hit
that inner circle was down zero. The further you got
out into the eight inch it was down one point.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
It's a simple target. I like that because, especially if
you're going to bring new people in, they don't want
complicated targets. They don't want complicated stages. I don't mind
it being challenging, but as far as the course of
fire goes, you don't want to have them to have
to think about like the game of this, you know,
you just want to try to think about your shooting.
So twentys, we're we're almost a twenty twenty six. You
(36:58):
guys are lining out of vents for twenty twenty six.
People can go find it online and just look up
NRA ARC I imagine, and find an event near them.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yes, how about this, find it, say we wanted our club,
call me up, I'll walk you through the process. We
want it at the clubs. The biggest thing we're searching
for right now is places to hold larger events, regional championship,
a national championship, to have that girl. But if the
club level, that's where it has to succeed, because we
want people to go shoot those monthly matches if the
club wants to host it. So that right now is
(37:28):
what I need. Right now, I need clubs to reach
out and say we want to host this for our people.
I want competitors to say, I just saw that, I
want to go shoot it. That looks interesting. I've got
five or six buddies. Let's go do it and they
can well it can email us and we'll set them up.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Okay, well perfect. Then you know a shooting range, a
shooting club, a gun store with a range. Could it all?
Do this? Drive traffic to their location, drive some revenue,
and of course this is. This is a new thing.
NRA is putting a lot of promotion behind it, so
they're driving people to go check this out. Chad, thanks
(38:05):
for being with us. This is cool, NRA RC and welcome.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Hope to see you on the range soon shooting it again.
See if you can do better this time.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, now I know what to do, Chris will help you,
easy enough. All right, that's it for us. Thanks for listening,
thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. On Gun Technique,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.