December 20, 2025 • 40 mins
Join us for an authentic hunting conversation with Colorado outfitter Kodiak Mullins of Raghorn Outfitters and Minnesota land agent Thomas Allen. From late-season strategies and managing client expectations to the pressure of social media trophy standards, this episode keeps it real.
Whether you’re new to hunting or a seasoned veteran, this episode will remind you that every tag, every experience, and every hunt matters. And yes, sometimes a "tweener buck" is precisely what fills the freezer.
This Gun Talk Hunt is brought to you by Ruger, Remington Ammunition, First Person Defender, and CZ Firearms.
About Gun Talk Hunt
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Hunt, with Kevin “KJ” Jarnagin, pairs decades of experience with today’s latest tools and technology to help you succeed in the field. Whether it runs or flies - no matter what game you pursue - Gun Talk Hunt is a multi-platform podcast that gives today’s hunters a voice in the digital world.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Hunt 12.20.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Whether you’re new to hunting or a seasoned veteran, this episode will remind you that every tag, every experience, and every hunt matters. And yes, sometimes a "tweener buck" is precisely what fills the freezer.
This Gun Talk Hunt is brought to you by Ruger, Remington Ammunition, First Person Defender, and CZ Firearms.
About Gun Talk Hunt
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Hunt, with Kevin “KJ” Jarnagin, pairs decades of experience with today’s latest tools and technology to help you succeed in the field. Whether it runs or flies - no matter what game you pursue - Gun Talk Hunt is a multi-platform podcast that gives today’s hunters a voice in the digital world.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Hunt 12.20.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What does it take to kill the big bucks? And
does that big buck really matter? All that? With Kodiak
Mullins out in Colorado and Thomas Allen up in Minnesota,
I'm kJ. You found the right place. We go all
over this little blue orb, sharing stories and tactics about
(00:20):
chasing wild gang. Now let's get on the hunt. All right.
Welcome in and all you gunn talk hunters. I'm your host, kJ,
and I am definitely back. I'm back from some good hunts.
I'm back from some rough hunts. But this episode is
brought to you by Rymwick, Tenamo, Ruger Firearms and First
(00:41):
Person Defender. Go check out all the action over there.
First Person Defender. All right, so we're going all the
way out to Colorado, Kodiak, Mullins, Guide Outfitter, it's going
to be joining us. And then we get to one
of our favorite guests, Thomas Allen, all the way up
in Minnesota, and he's got a big buck story. It's
(01:02):
not a big buck story, it's a little buck story.
But anyway, let's jump over to Colorado. Out to Colorado
with Kodiak, Kodiak, how you doing, man.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hey guys doing?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Thanks for having me I appreciate it. I'm definitely a
little nervous, but ready to get this.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
This isn't the place to get nervous. The time to
get nervous is when something like this steps out your
dad's when you start getting nervous.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
You're definitely right.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
This isn't it. This is just talking hunting and man Kodiak.
Tell us what you kind of do for a living,
and you are a guide, your man, you hunt all
over the country. Just give us a little background.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, I try to hunt as much as I can,
as much as uh my family and my wife will allow,
which is quite a bit for the most part on
the average. We uh me and my wife both work
at a gun sword that my buddy owns, SDS Guns
and Caloro Springs. I'm currently here right now. That was
what was took me so long to get on the
podcast here. It was just driving into work over We're
(02:07):
about forty minutes from from home.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
But yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Sell guns and we buy and sell use guns. We
sell new guns. Pretty much a perfect thing for a
hunter like myself to get involved in. And being my
buddy owns it, it works out great and helps me
and my wife and family out and we help them
out by selling a bunch of guns for them.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, and then yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So when you when you, I bet you see all
walks of life come through that store. But hunting season
has to be a very interesting one for me. I
think behind from behind the gun counter, like talking to
hunters and especially being a guide like you are, that
has to be an interesting experience.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
It's a fun. It definitely helps the days go buy faster.
It's fun. I've I've found myself talking with a couple
of customers for a couple hours before and then I'm
off often giving out our number and our contact just
to get our name out there. And you said mentioned
that that I'm a guide, and me and my wife
have been doing this for a long time and we're
(03:12):
finally just starting to want to get it rolling and
make it all official. I've just been helping family and
friends and close friends and and but yeah, during during
the day at the gunshot behind the counter, we get
a lot of a lot of different folks and a
lot of guys that like long range stuff, a lot
of guys that don't like it, a lot of guys
that like big calibers, a lot of guys that like
little calibers. It's a all walks, like you said, and
(03:35):
I I try to uh relate to all the hunters
and what they like and and get that kind of
feel for that way when we do, when we are
official with this guidance service and get everything legit, it'll
be it'll be that much easier to communicate with customers
and clients.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, so during during our experience, especially this time of
the year, and this is going to go route. Man,
this is going to be the last episode before Christmas.
What are you looking at? I mean, as far as hunts,
a lot of the rut is died out, it's done,
but guys are still trying to fill that tag. They're
(04:16):
still trying to punch that tag. Mostly probably going to
be through like a late season muzzloader or archery. Really
is kind of what guys are looking at. Yes, how
what are your suggestions on targeting deer this time of
the year.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I mean here in Colorado, we did a we had
a late cold front that came in. It wasn't as
cold during the normal rut season. I was just out
last week with a buddy of mine trying to help
him fill in either sex mule deer tag with his bow,
and we went to a few properties that I've got
(04:54):
permission to hunt, and we made a small little stalk
in the morning on them. It was like eighteen degrees.
It was pretty cold. We made a little stock out
within eighty yards and couldn't make it happen. We got
pinned by a dough. But my suggestion for guys is
to play the weather. I mean, we luckily had a
couple bucks chasing does still and that were I mean
(05:16):
they were grouped up with other bucks. So there was
about three or four in that group, and there was
about twenty dos.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
And that's a lot of eyeballs.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
That is a lot of eyeballs, and that's kind of
We did good to getting in at eighty. But we
had one mama dough that just she pinned us within
within that eighty yards and she wouldn't take her eyes
off of us. The bucks came within about seventy yards
without and my buddy felt comfortable at sixty with the
weather and his arrows and the cold. He didn't really
(05:44):
want to take that risk at anything over sixty, and
I understood that, so I told him that was fine.
I think we could get in there, but she just
wouldn't take her eyes off of us. So we got
lucky and kind of fortunate that we still have a
little bit of the chasing going on. I do think
it is on the downhill slide of the rut. When
I was in Missouri this year, we kind of hit
(06:06):
it right perfect. Bucks were taking dose and bending up
with them and they were still kind of chasing. So
the rain kind of messed with us a little bit,
but we definitely still made it happen.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Man, when when the weather stays warm, and this one
you're was a little bit unseasonably warm for us, like
in Central in the Southeast, it seemed like it was drier.
And now I don't know if you can you guys
will hear it. It's been raining all day non stop
down there. Like it's that. This is more like it.
But man, we had one cold snap during my last
(06:42):
hunt and that set it off like that. I don't
know what it triggered in those bucks, but it's like, man,
this is the weather we've been waiting for. And I
will say this, I saw deer doing the chasing and
the lockdown stuff all in the heat of the day too,
Like it didn't matter, but it seems like that activity
(07:03):
hung on a little bit longer when that cold snap
just hit and it was just right.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, no, it it definitely did. They they were they
were moving when we needed to. I don't know about
you guys. The moon phase was definitely played a factor.
Last year. We had a lot of issues during the rut.
The moon had them on lockdown and they were completely nocturnal.
This year, like you said that, the weather was kind
of messing with them a little bit. The rain had
(07:32):
a lot of the bucks in the heavier timber and
the cedars and stuff. When I was in Missouri, the
mules out here in Colorado, they were definitely down in
the riverbeds getting out of the wind because again there's
not much, not much to block the wind down here,
so wherever they can get they will. So I mean
it was it was kind of tough finding them and
(07:53):
getting on them. But I mean if you pay attention
to their patterns and and and know where they're at
on certain properties, I I definitely feel like property knowing
each property itself instead of just knowing all your places
as one, just knowing each individual one. What will be
better for when when you're out there. It helps out
a lot. And me and my wife put in a
(08:14):
lot of time in the off season. And she'll tell
you all I do after is right around and and
go park and walk and and just learn learn the land,
and learn what the animals are doing even when I
can't hunt them, so try to figure out which way
they're going to go and and be able to give
the best opportunity for whoever I'm taking in myself hunt.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Well, there's a lot of leg work that goes into
I mean, especially guiding, Like guiding is a whole different game.
Like if you're thinking about getting into it, I mean,
it's it's a lot of work. I mean, you're you're hunting,
you've got to be on top of your game, no
matter who your client is. But man, what are some
tactics that you have found because there you as a guide,
(08:56):
you'll you'll see every type of hunter. You'll see an
introductory hunter, intermediate, and then your advance your advanced skill
levels that you don't have to mess with a lot.
What are tactics that work for all stages of hunting,
like whether you're an expert, whether you're an intermediate, or
whether you're a beginner. What have you put people on
(09:18):
deer with.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
My biggest thing is almost in anything I really do,
you got to have I think my number one is
going to be heart. They've got to have the heart
to want to be able to pursue that animal and
actually be successful. If they don't have it in there,
they're they're not really they don't really care. I've seen
some guys come out that are just kind of on
a vacation to get away from either their why for
(09:42):
significant other or whatever the case name job, whatever that
may be. But a lot of guys that I tend
to take a lot of people that have that heart
and drive and haven't had success and they want to
be successful. So the tactics that I can just tell
everybody to just stay consistent with there are play the wind,
(10:02):
no know what you're hunting. I mean between antelope, mule, deer, whitetail, elk,
they're all different. They're all smarter individuals than the other.
I personally think whitetail and elk are probably the smarter
out of the four. But when when you get into that,
I mean, just know, no, research the animal that you're
(10:23):
hunting and just figure out their patterns. Wind is the
biggest thing, so you don't get winded and and can
have a closer opportunity and then just stay steady, don't
get nervous. It's hard to stay. Easier said than done.
But butter fever buck fever is something that you can
overcome if you just put your mind to it and
(10:45):
and just celebrate when you're done, when that animal is
on the ground and you've harvested what you're out to hunt,
then you can jump up for joy. You can scream,
you can yell all you want and and be proud
of yourself for doing that. As long as you can
stay focused on the basics of the wind and the food,
shelter and water, the yeah, the animals will come to you.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah. Well, I will say this like on the wind thing,
and I think I think you're one hundred percent correct
in the rut. When the rut is happening, it tends
to be the moments where you can get away with
a little bit more. But you can never beat that
doe's nose or the eyes. I mean, once they lock
(11:29):
onto you, there, you're done. But I had an instance
happen and it's happened to me multiple times. But my
buddy was hunting like the edge of a like a
wheat field, looking back into the timber. So he's looking
back into the timber of these deer entering the food
plots in the afternoon, and he was covered up with
(11:50):
probably I don't know it was, you know, probably like
fifteen dos. A couple of small bucks running around there
chasing doing their thing. He had an nice buck come out.
He passed it. I think he's an idiot, but he
was doing it out of the goodness of his heart.
He was like, I know what deer, you like the
harvest and you like to see out here. He goes,
(12:12):
I made the decision to pass it, and I go,
you're an idiot, Like you should have shot that thing.
I don't care that much, Like just take something you'd
be happy with. But this was a north wind blowing
doze all around him, and he was like, I don't
know what happened. He goes. You know, they were all
behind me and nothing spooked nothing, and the wind was consistent.
(12:36):
So I don't know if that like the thermals. I
don't I don't know if thermals were messing with that
and they were bringing them up. But you would think
with the night dropping, they would be they be starting
to fall. Yeah, So I don't know what was going on, but.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Man, dude, he didn't cover cent. I we walked into
the Airbnb and I had to take out like I
took out scent wafers and stuff that they were like
trying to make the airbnb smell good.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I was like, nope, coming off, these are all out.
I was like, we're leaving our boots outside. I mean,
it was that bad. I don't know. It just it
was a weird happenstance that nothing picked him off.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, I mean I've had it happen before. I've had
I've had spikes walk in. Usually young bucks for the
most part, not not as often as a dough, but
young bucks kind of get on the stupor side. Yeah,
and they present themselves quite often. Then that goes to
the whole being being understanding of what you're ready to harvest.
(13:41):
And that's all in the hunter itself. Who has a tag. Ye.
I feel like the if it makes you sit happy,
like you said, if he had shot it and been
happy with it, then then go ahead and harvest that animal.
But them small bucks that come in there like that,
I it's too easy almost, And I tell them to
shoe away. I shoe them off and say, going, man,
(14:02):
get out of Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Go find your dad, tell him to get over here.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, I'm not looking for you.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
What you say like you just tell him like like
sitting down and say, hey, all these ladies out here
to be yours, like every single one of them. You
don't have to chance off any bucks. You don't have
to worry. Just show me your grandfather and bring him
over here or your dad either one. I'll take care
of about that.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Bring him out of that sear patcher, bring him out
of that little hole that he's in there, and yeah,
don't want a fight, and let him kick your butt
a little bit, and then.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Then we're good. Well, I appreciate it, Kodyak. We're gonna
jump over. We're gonna take a real quick small break,
but we're then we're going to jump over to mister
Thomas Allen out in Minnesota and see what he has
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(15:14):
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(17:29):
Welcome back. We are we are heading up to Minnesota
and Thomas allen favorite guest, big Buck Killer Turkey's like
the dude hunts it all.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Now.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Now he's gonna be He's gonna become a land baron
at some point. I'm waiting for that because now he
is he is selling properties like hunting properties. So if
you're listening to this and you have an interest in
either selling your place or acquiring, he's going to be
your man. Thomas Allen, welcome in.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Hey, Kevin, you have low standards as usual, but yes,
thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here, happy
to spend a story or two.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Well, you know what story I want to hear because
we all set standards for ourselves, like we all say,
you know, I want to harvest X. I want to
harvest X like type of deer, and sometimes we don't
achieve those. So talk to me about what your rub
report is and how your season's been.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Well, let's let's start out a little bit of what's
going on in Minnesota today. I woke up, woke up
to a balmy negative eleven. Coldest era of the season
is here. Our lakes are mostly froze over. Tommy was
out last night checking ice on a lake nearby four
to six inches. So like, we're getting into ice fishing
seasons right.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Around the corner. Something we love here.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
That's a thing.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Yeah, it's it's a thing here. Interestingly, the last two nights,
last two afternoons, the biggest and this is not a giant,
but the biggest buck we've had on camera in our
yard has daylighted, so we have daylight pictures of this deer.
And I was actually going to get up early this morning,
It's true story. I was gonna run out and side
in the muzzloader because that season opened up here on
(19:15):
a week ago, hoping that Tommy would want to get
out and take advantage maybe sit tonight. And I went
upstairs while he was drinking his grown up man coffee
and he said, no, Dad, I don't want to go,
said buddy, that deer's out there. You don't want to go.
He's like, Dad, I'm tired of freezing. Every time I go,
I don't see anything. I'm like, okay, so I was
(19:36):
going to get up and go sight in the muzzloader
today being way behind, but I think I didn't have
to be talked out of going.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
He said he wasn't interested. So maybe tomorrow.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
But it's been an interesting season here. There's a whole
nother story we don't have time to get into, but
it's probably for a later date.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Of just the way things happen.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
Yeah, like my daughter, who doesn't hunt very often, got
a shot at the target buck that Tommy was after.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
We near had a family breakdown, hot mess.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
But I would tell you in the North, I would
say we had a pretty normal rut, wasn't It wasn't
a super fast like two three days. It was deer everywhere.
We had a pretty consistent, like seven to ten day
period where we had daylight photos and it was It
was exciting enough, but I didn't really have a lot
of time to invest. Kevin, Tommy did he hunted a bunch.
(20:29):
You kind of alluded to this earlier. I switched careers
this summer. I had a twenty year career in the
outdoor industry working on the fishing side of things. Loved it,
super grateful for it. Decided to take a turn and
I'm now of a land agent, so because that those
paychecks depend on the amount of work and time I
put in, I just didn't have a lot of time
this fall to hunt.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Hey, I've been trying to get you on the show,
I mean all fall, like every single request I sent out,
you know, And I know you're busy, like I mean,
I just I just understand that, But man, you are
you are hard to get hold of.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
I apologize I have missed the sound of your gravelly
voice griping in my ear about.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
This, that or the other thing. But no, I do
you know.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
It's been a It takes a little effort to kind
of get the momentum going in this space. And one
thing I can tell you, we can do a whole
another show about to down the road. But yeah, there's
a tremendous barrier to entry if you want to get
into land sales, like you got to be committed to
it and understand that you're going to go four to
six months or more without really having any pay. And
thank god, my wife is a hard working woman and
(21:37):
doesn't mind sharing her health insurance with us.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Because this house depends on it. We're going to get there.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, you'll get there. I have no doubt, but let's
we will, because I do want to get you back
on to just talk about purchasing hunting land, what to
look for. I want to get to that episode, like,
because that's a huge Like a lot of guys are
in that stage of their life where it's like hunting
is becoming a rich man's sport. Don't let people fool you,
(22:04):
Like the barriers to entry in this space are huge,
like it is becoming a rich man's sport. And I'm sorry,
but it kind of pisses me off, and maybe I
perpetuate some of that, And I'm sorry if I come
across that way, but I'm lucky, Like i'll hunt public land,
but I'm lucky that I have a lease and I
have private land that I can hunt. So I want
(22:25):
to get into that. That's a whole episode, and we
might just have a couple of land agents on and
just go through that. But yeah, I'm sorry, I got
onto like a little stool there that was about four
or five inches off the ground.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
I kind of feel like we need to segue just
a minute, because I think on this very show, we've
often talked about your concern about my standards. Yeah, we've
evaluated this deeply. I've been criticized, probably accurately in particular
back to a visit Tommy and I had to Oklahoma,
where you knew I had a standard. I wanted to
(23:01):
stick to it and listen, I don't need to brag
like I love shooting old ugly bucks.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I liked. I just fascinated by old deer.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
But and I think anybody that is a committed white
tail hunter, and really it might it might just go
across all big game species.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
If you've dedicated to a specific species.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
There are about five phases, as they say, right, and
I'm gonna go through real briefly. You got your your
entry level right, You're you're shooting everything and anything that moves.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
You're in the pile them up phase.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
Phase two, you're starting to realize that there's more opportunity.
You might pass a few small bucks, but you're going
to shoot a mediocre deer. Phase three kind of gets
into that I'm gonna shoot a bigger buck, but I
have a lot of time to commit and end up
shooting an icer deer, maybe looking at age structure, maybe
looking at management. Phase four, you're really committed to a
big animal, but you're still willing to sacrifice those standards.
(23:53):
Phase five is and really this is where I I
guess I would associate with and and bless everybody across
the whole phase transition, Like you gotta be committed to that.
Like I love hunt with my kids, that's phase five.
I love chasing a particular dear. I will pass here,
I'll eat a tag to get the right deer in
front of me. But I think what's not been talked
(24:13):
about is phase six. And this is the d GAF phase.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Right, this is.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
Where you've put in countless hours, days, weeks, mosquito bites.
You know, you got chiggers up and your your unmentionables,
Like there is a point where you have got to.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Kill one and whatever walks out. That's stage.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
I have a great friend that has given me permission
to work with him and build a property in northern Minnesota.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
His name is Brandon.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
He's a very challenging person to get along with, but
we get along swell because we're the same uh. But
long story short, we had high hopes. His property isn't
a part of the state that offers opportunity if you're
willing to give it at big animals.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Yeah, we have a lot of time. This year, we
put in.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
Seven acres of food plots. Maybe not quite that much,
but seven food plots. Had some replan issues, the whole
thing that comes along with land management, and we got
to the last day of Minnesota's rifle season. I hunted
for four days. That's the equivalent amount of time that
I had committed. And on the last morning, we had
(25:24):
a little tweener buck come out to say.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Wait, between seventy yards, tweener buck, what's a tweiner buck?
Like I want you to say it.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
He might have more, he might have He's like he's
a little bigger and a spike. Okay, but maybe not
maybe not measurably like there were other little nubs or whatever.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Let's just say this.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
He came out to seventy yards and the old starvation
empty freezer took control and I let the six or
five creed more eat.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Was there anything left?
Speaker 5 (25:56):
If you have a picture, you need to at least here.
Let me put up a picture to honor this guy
because he did.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Time in the woods. Well, and he'll eat. Just listen
where I look.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
I'm not sorry, No, listen, this is what it came
down to and this is this is.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
On a serious note, we as a culture have put
so much value on hunters based on what they can kill.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
And I think you walk it.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
Through everybody, through everybody's trophy room, and you can probably
get a pretty good gauge on what you're capable of.
But that that was fun, Like I had a good
time with that. I didn't have to drag him far.
And if I did, I could have done it by myself.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
You could have sung it, you shoulder.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
But there comes a point where I think you just
need to let let one hit the ground.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
And Brandon and I have.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
Decided we're gonna call this, we call Phase six. He's
gonna just have to do this year.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah. So I have no problem with that. And and
guys that showed me dear like that, I'm like, man,
you work, you work hard for it. Are you happy?
And they're always they're like, yeah, I had a great time. Awesome.
It doesn't matter now I will say.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
And listen, I was gonna say, like, you know, naturally
I shoot that deer, fill my tag. All the bucks
come out of the wood work up there. You know,
it is what it is. But there's an element to
I'm limited on time. I put in a lot of
effort in between changing careers. All the stuff didn't have,
the money spent spent on gas still went. And if
(27:27):
that's what I have to show for it, I'm alright
with that because it still gave me an experience that
I wanted. It gave me the food that we needed,
and I'm happy as a clam. And I honestly thought
after I shot it, I'm like, I can't believe how
great that was, Kevin.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
It was refreshing.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
It's almost like I stepped back to being a younger
man and I'm like, yeah, this is what it's about.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
This is what it feels like. Yeah, it was good.
Oh my god, I'm telling it's there is something to
just going out enjoying your time in the woods and
just and just taking a deer that you're gonna be
happy with. There's something to be said about that. Now
do we put and we put too much pressure on ourselves.
I mean, because you sit here and look and like
(28:11):
Kodiak may say the same thing is that we put
so much pressure on ourselves to like I have to
kill the big buck, and like I can't imagine the
pressure he Kodiak's under. And we can have him talk
about that here in a second. But like to have
to feel those freezers, to have to like show those horns, like, hey,
this is what you can expect when you're with me,
(28:32):
Like that's a big amount of pressure.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
It is. But let me let me kind of parallel
this with what I alluded to earlier. So we had
a big deer that my son was hunting. My daughter
wounded the deer. We didn't find it. He showed back up.
He's still lives as far as we know.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
I was mentioned that, but I asked Tommy had a
near breakdown. We had to have a father son come
to Jesus talk about how the deer should affect our
behavior or how it shouldn't. And I had to ask
this question. I said, why why is it so important
for you to kill that deer? Well, Dad, I want
one on the wall that I can I can be
proud of. I said, well, you have others, yeah, but
(29:08):
I you know, we always want more.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
There's nothing wrong with that. So why is that deer
important to you? Said?
Speaker 5 (29:12):
So when people come and visit they can see I said,
all right, let's talk about that. You're not wrong in
wanting to accomplish that, But if you're shooting that deer
to appease your your peer group or to get the
attention of people on social media, then you probably ought
to just hang it up and go fishing, because it
ain't about what you make other people feel. You need
to have that mentality in your mind that when you
(29:34):
pull the trigger, it's about you. Yeah, and I'm not
justifying shooting a small deer because I had a good
time with it. But what I'm saying is a culture
we've drifted away from what it means to us and
have focused on what our decisions in the woods mean
to other people.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
And that's where I'm done. Like I've had it with that.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
The outdoor industry pushes that, not in a bad way
all the time, but sometimes that to me meant something.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
A lot of times it happens. But all right, hey,
let's uh, let's jump in. Let's bring Kodiak back in.
I think is a great conversation that we're having right
now on on pressure that we put on ourselves, and
I honestly, I really kind of want to hear what
Kodiak has to say about that. Uh kodiak. So I
(30:16):
got to ask you, man, do we put too much
pressure on ourselves? Is the outdoor industry putting too bunch pressure?
Are we trying to live up to standards on socials?
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Kind of funny? I the other day, I or yesterday
I just put up it was my day off and
my wife needed to write into work because she doesn't
like driving the snow. So I put up my buck
that I killed in Missouri on a scoring page and
a couple other white tail public pages. And in my eyes,
he's only like a one thirty five to one forty
maybe one forty five, and he was on a run
(30:47):
and I shot him. So to the standards point, I
feel like we are kind of held to that we
have to shoot a big buck, We have to shoot
something that everybody's going to be jealous of type thing.
As a as a guide, I do have a lot
of stress on my shoulders and put it on myself
that I if I don't successfully help someone find an
animal that that it it's kind of my fault. But
(31:09):
all I can do as a guy to give them
the opportunity they have to take that and succeed and
make it count, but I definitely try within my best
to make sure that they're going to succeed. Make sure
guys can shoot. Not that everybody can't, but like you said,
there's those levels of the intermediate and one, two, three, four,
(31:31):
five and even the six.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
But the.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I think that, yes, we do kind of get held
that high and put a little bit of stress on
ourselves to where we if we don't fill our freezers,
it's kind of a waste of time. But the memories
are what we need to remember. And we all talked
about a little bit. You both briefly spoke that it's
kind of getting expensive and it's a rich man's game.
I totally agree with that, and I want the blue
(31:56):
collar guys to be able to go out and hunt
and not feel as stressed, but also be able to
make those memories that kids, grandkids, wives and significant others
husbands are all going to remember and not necessarily worry
about the freezer being full. That's all of our point,
and our goal is to thrill a freezer. But if
we don't, like, don't hold it over ourselves and don't
(32:18):
let it eat at you, and we're all going to
lose a buck once or twice. If you have enough,
you're going to lose a buck. You're going to hit
a buck and not make a great contact with them,
and it all plays into a factor. But if we
were maybe able to take a little bit of that
stress off of our shoulders, it would be come a
little easier, and that way we would be able to
(32:40):
put more thoughts into getting being more successful instead of
worrying about how successful we are when we are successful.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah, I agree, dollas, have you got anything else?
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Well? I think that.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
There's kind of a growing perception here about if you're
taking pictures of the sunrise, you're not seeing the year,
you're not catching fish like I think there's some truth
to that. And I and listen, I've hunted white tails
in half a dozen states.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
You know, I love it. I really really do it.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
It's one of the most fascinating critters that walks the
face the earth.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
I love a turkey too. But I'm not.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
Taking away at all from those that want to perform
at that high level. If you have the opportunity to, like,
this's my dream, right, I would like to own my
own land and have enough dirt to manage and pass.
Dear and be confident they're going to make it to
the next year. That's I think all of our goals
in the long run. But what people have this tendency
to think is like, oh, if you shoot a one
and a half year old buck, you're robbing an opportunity
(33:38):
for me, even if you're in a different state, or
even if you're in the same town. I just like
it is it is within the realms of management a
renewable resource. And like, I didn't ruin the entire state
of Northern Minnesota's hunting by shooting a one and a
half year old buck. But that's what people like to
kind of imply, like, I hate you for shooting that.
What kind of message are you you're putting out there
(34:00):
the incoming generations of hunting. And no nobody said this
to me specifically, but that's the stigma that you fight
online if you care to engage in that. So I
think what it comes down to is get your experience.
I want more people to enjoy the sport. The more
people that we have involved in it, the better the
industry is, the healthier the sport is, the stronger the awareness. Right,
(34:21):
there's a lot of good things, but don't feel like
you're cheating yourself out of an experience by filling your
freezer with a good buck or something you're happy with.
And this goes If my son right here, I'd say
this to him, like, you don't need to shoot that
big buck to have my respect, buddy, I want you
to have an experience you're proud of, and on top
of that, an experience you can learn from.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
If that's a spike, that's awesome. If it's a big buck, awesome.
But to me, both of.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
Those animals together at that early part is being a
developing bowhunter. They're both valuable and don't overlook the stair
steps to becoming a big trophy hunter.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
And I like big bucks, but.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
We all do sometimes right.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
Sometimes sometimes a little one is just gonna have to do.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yep, that's stayed. Six buck is just he's one step
away at all times. So let's jump back over. Kodiak. Kodiak,
tell people where they can go to find out more
about Like if someone's in Colorado or they they need
a guide, you're the man, tell them where they can
go find out more about it.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Because I'm coming. I want to a white tail with you.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, sure, Now, the problem like I say, uh so,
me and my wife were currently in the works of
getting all this together. Raghorn Outfitters, we are, and we
can just a little bit of the name. I chose
Raghorn Outfitters because there's a lot of guides that pride
themselves on those big trophies and outfitters that pride themselves
on those monster bucks and those monster bulls. And I'm
(35:52):
not saying that with Raghorn Outfitters, We're not going to
give you an opportunity at a monster bull or buck.
But we are out there mainly for the cost effective.
I am not necessarily trying to undercut everybody else, but
I'm trying to make those those blue collar guys be
able to afford a hunt. We are out here, like
I said, based out of the Eastern Plains in Callahan, Colorado.
(36:15):
My wife and my buddy's wife are making an Instagram
and a web page right now as we speak. That
will be I will I can get links and over
to you, Kevin, and and and then I can we
can put them out there and I can have contacts.
I can even put out my phone number for now,
just so people can get a hold of me. I've
been on the phone for the last week with guys
(36:35):
every night all night. One guy talked to me for
two hours. But we're out here. We're out here trying
to get the the the prices of these hunts down
where we're offering almost half the rate of everybody else.
Because my goal is not to get a check or
(36:55):
or receive a handful of cash at the end of
this That is really kind of the last of my worries.
My biggest thing is making it like a family experience
to where everybody that comes out with ragmort Outfitters feels
like they are part of our family and that I'm
helping them feel their freezer. And again, it's not about
making the money and taking these guys out and just
(37:17):
putting them on a big animal. It's about making the
experience fun for them and being able to have enough
money to still provide for their family. Because all we
all know that hunting seasons kind of fall that the
later seasons fall around the holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas and all
that and New Year's and people are spending money on
(37:39):
gifts and stuff like that, and they don't have the
money to spend seven thousand dollars on an el cutting
that's why we're coming in at Our pricing is going
to be eighteen hundred dollars for a buck antelope. Our
pricing is going to be like three thousand dollars for
a mule deer hunt versus seven thousand dollars on at
five to seven on an average. We're really trying to
(37:59):
make get affordable for everybody and to where they don't
they can bring their kids. And the guy that I
spoke with for two hours on the phone, he is
wanting to book six hunts for him and his brother
to take their two kids hunting. He mentioned that he
wasn't able to do that with a lot of other
outfitters because they can't go drop twenty thousand albumers for
two hunts.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
It just doesn't work, I think. Problem. So let's jump
back over to Thomas Allen. Thomas Allen, someone needs some
land or they need to sell some land. Where are
they going to find out about you?
Speaker 5 (38:31):
Well, first of all, Kodiak's doing is awesome. I'm intrigued
by that, and I think the more people kind of
start looking I'm not saying to shoot small deer, but
what I did, what you're doing, I think there's a
reset coming in the industry and there's a reset.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
I appreciate you doing.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
I appreciate that, Like I hope there's a reset coming,
and I mean that's what we need. We need to
reset and go hey, wait, are are we just out
there selling gear? And then it's like this high level
experience or are we like we're filling those freezers we're
having and still having the experience? Like I want it.
I want a reset, com like, let's bring it.
Speaker 5 (39:10):
Yeah, yes, yeah, And again, like I said before, it's
not about taking down anybody else.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
You do it the way you want.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
To do it, and that's what I want to agree.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
It's the beauty of this. So anyway, off soapbox.
Speaker 5 (39:20):
Uh. So I'm licensed in Minnesota. So anything that anybody
looking for for hunting opportunities or recreational properties farms, that's
what I specialize in. I work with Midwest Land Group
based out of the Kansas City area, so they're all
over the Midwest. They're in Louisiana, Kevin. I think they're
in Colorado. So it's a Midwestern organization that the brokers
(39:42):
Land deals and I'm proud to be a part of
their organization. So right now we're getting the ball rolling,
learning a little bit along the way. I just had
an hour conversation about a tax assessment. You want to
talk about that, I know something about it, but uh,
we think what our I think our what our collective
goal here is making dreams come true and that's that's
what I'm hoping to do. So excited about what's to come.
(40:04):
And it's been a fun ride so far.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
So that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Well, midwest landgroup dot com. That's the website. What is it,
midwest landgroup dot com?
Speaker 1 (40:14):
All right, go check them out. All right, guys, thank
you for joining us. And hey, as always, gun talk hunters,
you know the drill, keep those muscles point in a
safe direction and always be on the hunt.
What does it take to kill the big bucks? And
does that big buck really matter? All that? With Kodiak
Mullins out in Colorado and Thomas Allen up in Minnesota,
I'm kJ. You found the right place. We go all
over this little blue orb, sharing stories and tactics about
(00:20):
chasing wild gang. Now let's get on the hunt. All right.
Welcome in and all you gunn talk hunters. I'm your host, kJ,
and I am definitely back. I'm back from some good hunts.
I'm back from some rough hunts. But this episode is
brought to you by Rymwick, Tenamo, Ruger Firearms and First
(00:41):
Person Defender. Go check out all the action over there.
First Person Defender. All right, so we're going all the
way out to Colorado, Kodiak, Mullins, Guide Outfitter, it's going
to be joining us. And then we get to one
of our favorite guests, Thomas Allen, all the way up
in Minnesota, and he's got a big buck story. It's
(01:02):
not a big buck story, it's a little buck story.
But anyway, let's jump over to Colorado. Out to Colorado
with Kodiak, Kodiak, how you doing, man.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hey guys doing?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Thanks for having me I appreciate it. I'm definitely a
little nervous, but ready to get this.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
This isn't the place to get nervous. The time to
get nervous is when something like this steps out your
dad's when you start getting nervous.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
You're definitely right.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
This isn't it. This is just talking hunting and man Kodiak.
Tell us what you kind of do for a living,
and you are a guide, your man, you hunt all
over the country. Just give us a little background.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, I try to hunt as much as I can,
as much as uh my family and my wife will allow,
which is quite a bit for the most part on
the average. We uh me and my wife both work
at a gun sword that my buddy owns, SDS Guns
and Caloro Springs. I'm currently here right now. That was
what was took me so long to get on the
podcast here. It was just driving into work over We're
(02:07):
about forty minutes from from home.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
But yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Sell guns and we buy and sell use guns. We
sell new guns. Pretty much a perfect thing for a
hunter like myself to get involved in. And being my
buddy owns it, it works out great and helps me
and my wife and family out and we help them
out by selling a bunch of guns for them.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, and then yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So when you when you, I bet you see all
walks of life come through that store. But hunting season
has to be a very interesting one for me. I
think behind from behind the gun counter, like talking to
hunters and especially being a guide like you are, that
has to be an interesting experience.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
It's a fun. It definitely helps the days go buy faster.
It's fun. I've I've found myself talking with a couple
of customers for a couple hours before and then I'm
off often giving out our number and our contact just
to get our name out there. And you said mentioned
that that I'm a guide, and me and my wife
have been doing this for a long time and we're
(03:12):
finally just starting to want to get it rolling and
make it all official. I've just been helping family and
friends and close friends and and but yeah, during during
the day at the gunshot behind the counter, we get
a lot of a lot of different folks and a
lot of guys that like long range stuff, a lot
of guys that don't like it, a lot of guys
that like big calibers, a lot of guys that like
little calibers. It's a all walks, like you said, and
(03:35):
I I try to uh relate to all the hunters
and what they like and and get that kind of
feel for that way when we do, when we are
official with this guidance service and get everything legit, it'll
be it'll be that much easier to communicate with customers
and clients.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, so during during our experience, especially this time of
the year, and this is going to go route. Man,
this is going to be the last episode before Christmas.
What are you looking at? I mean, as far as hunts,
a lot of the rut is died out, it's done,
but guys are still trying to fill that tag. They're
(04:16):
still trying to punch that tag. Mostly probably going to
be through like a late season muzzloader or archery. Really
is kind of what guys are looking at. Yes, how
what are your suggestions on targeting deer this time of
the year.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I mean here in Colorado, we did a we had
a late cold front that came in. It wasn't as
cold during the normal rut season. I was just out
last week with a buddy of mine trying to help
him fill in either sex mule deer tag with his bow,
and we went to a few properties that I've got
(04:54):
permission to hunt, and we made a small little stalk
in the morning on them. It was like eighteen degrees.
It was pretty cold. We made a little stock out
within eighty yards and couldn't make it happen. We got
pinned by a dough. But my suggestion for guys is
to play the weather. I mean, we luckily had a
couple bucks chasing does still and that were I mean
(05:16):
they were grouped up with other bucks. So there was
about three or four in that group, and there was
about twenty dos.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
And that's a lot of eyeballs.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
That is a lot of eyeballs, and that's kind of
We did good to getting in at eighty. But we
had one mama dough that just she pinned us within
within that eighty yards and she wouldn't take her eyes
off of us. The bucks came within about seventy yards
without and my buddy felt comfortable at sixty with the
weather and his arrows and the cold. He didn't really
(05:44):
want to take that risk at anything over sixty, and
I understood that, so I told him that was fine.
I think we could get in there, but she just
wouldn't take her eyes off of us. So we got
lucky and kind of fortunate that we still have a
little bit of the chasing going on. I do think
it is on the downhill slide of the rut. When
I was in Missouri this year, we kind of hit
(06:06):
it right perfect. Bucks were taking dose and bending up
with them and they were still kind of chasing. So
the rain kind of messed with us a little bit,
but we definitely still made it happen.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Man, when when the weather stays warm, and this one
you're was a little bit unseasonably warm for us, like
in Central in the Southeast, it seemed like it was drier.
And now I don't know if you can you guys
will hear it. It's been raining all day non stop
down there. Like it's that. This is more like it.
But man, we had one cold snap during my last
(06:42):
hunt and that set it off like that. I don't
know what it triggered in those bucks, but it's like, man,
this is the weather we've been waiting for. And I
will say this, I saw deer doing the chasing and
the lockdown stuff all in the heat of the day too,
Like it didn't matter, but it seems like that activity
(07:03):
hung on a little bit longer when that cold snap
just hit and it was just right.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, no, it it definitely did. They they were they
were moving when we needed to. I don't know about
you guys. The moon phase was definitely played a factor.
Last year. We had a lot of issues during the rut.
The moon had them on lockdown and they were completely nocturnal.
This year, like you said that, the weather was kind
of messing with them a little bit. The rain had
(07:32):
a lot of the bucks in the heavier timber and
the cedars and stuff. When I was in Missouri, the
mules out here in Colorado, they were definitely down in
the riverbeds getting out of the wind because again there's
not much, not much to block the wind down here,
so wherever they can get they will. So I mean
it was it was kind of tough finding them and
(07:53):
getting on them. But I mean if you pay attention
to their patterns and and and know where they're at
on certain properties, I I definitely feel like property knowing
each property itself instead of just knowing all your places
as one, just knowing each individual one. What will be
better for when when you're out there. It helps out
a lot. And me and my wife put in a
(08:14):
lot of time in the off season. And she'll tell
you all I do after is right around and and
go park and walk and and just learn learn the land,
and learn what the animals are doing even when I
can't hunt them, so try to figure out which way
they're going to go and and be able to give
the best opportunity for whoever I'm taking in myself hunt.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Well, there's a lot of leg work that goes into
I mean, especially guiding, Like guiding is a whole different game.
Like if you're thinking about getting into it, I mean,
it's it's a lot of work. I mean, you're you're hunting,
you've got to be on top of your game, no
matter who your client is. But man, what are some
tactics that you have found because there you as a guide,
(08:56):
you'll you'll see every type of hunter. You'll see an
introductory hunter, intermediate, and then your advance your advanced skill
levels that you don't have to mess with a lot.
What are tactics that work for all stages of hunting,
like whether you're an expert, whether you're an intermediate, or
whether you're a beginner. What have you put people on
(09:18):
deer with.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
My biggest thing is almost in anything I really do,
you got to have I think my number one is
going to be heart. They've got to have the heart
to want to be able to pursue that animal and
actually be successful. If they don't have it in there,
they're they're not really they don't really care. I've seen
some guys come out that are just kind of on
a vacation to get away from either their why for
(09:42):
significant other or whatever the case name job, whatever that
may be. But a lot of guys that I tend
to take a lot of people that have that heart
and drive and haven't had success and they want to
be successful. So the tactics that I can just tell
everybody to just stay consistent with there are play the wind,
(10:02):
no know what you're hunting. I mean between antelope, mule, deer, whitetail, elk,
they're all different. They're all smarter individuals than the other.
I personally think whitetail and elk are probably the smarter
out of the four. But when when you get into that,
I mean, just know, no, research the animal that you're
(10:23):
hunting and just figure out their patterns. Wind is the
biggest thing, so you don't get winded and and can
have a closer opportunity and then just stay steady, don't
get nervous. It's hard to stay. Easier said than done.
But butter fever buck fever is something that you can
overcome if you just put your mind to it and
(10:45):
and just celebrate when you're done, when that animal is
on the ground and you've harvested what you're out to hunt,
then you can jump up for joy. You can scream,
you can yell all you want and and be proud
of yourself for doing that. As long as you can
stay focused on the basics of the wind and the food,
shelter and water, the yeah, the animals will come to you.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah. Well, I will say this like on the wind thing,
and I think I think you're one hundred percent correct
in the rut. When the rut is happening, it tends
to be the moments where you can get away with
a little bit more. But you can never beat that
doe's nose or the eyes. I mean, once they lock
(11:29):
onto you, there, you're done. But I had an instance
happen and it's happened to me multiple times. But my
buddy was hunting like the edge of a like a
wheat field, looking back into the timber. So he's looking
back into the timber of these deer entering the food
plots in the afternoon, and he was covered up with
(11:50):
probably I don't know it was, you know, probably like
fifteen dos. A couple of small bucks running around there
chasing doing their thing. He had an nice buck come out.
He passed it. I think he's an idiot, but he
was doing it out of the goodness of his heart.
He was like, I know what deer, you like the
harvest and you like to see out here. He goes,
(12:12):
I made the decision to pass it, and I go,
you're an idiot, Like you should have shot that thing.
I don't care that much, Like just take something you'd
be happy with. But this was a north wind blowing
doze all around him, and he was like, I don't
know what happened. He goes. You know, they were all
behind me and nothing spooked nothing, and the wind was consistent.
(12:36):
So I don't know if that like the thermals. I
don't I don't know if thermals were messing with that
and they were bringing them up. But you would think
with the night dropping, they would be they be starting
to fall. Yeah, So I don't know what was going on, but.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Man, dude, he didn't cover cent. I we walked into
the Airbnb and I had to take out like I
took out scent wafers and stuff that they were like
trying to make the airbnb smell good.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I was like, nope, coming off, these are all out.
I was like, we're leaving our boots outside. I mean,
it was that bad. I don't know. It just it
was a weird happenstance that nothing picked him off.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, I mean I've had it happen before. I've had
I've had spikes walk in. Usually young bucks for the
most part, not not as often as a dough, but
young bucks kind of get on the stupor side. Yeah,
and they present themselves quite often. Then that goes to
the whole being being understanding of what you're ready to harvest.
(13:41):
And that's all in the hunter itself. Who has a tag. Ye.
I feel like the if it makes you sit happy,
like you said, if he had shot it and been
happy with it, then then go ahead and harvest that animal.
But them small bucks that come in there like that,
I it's too easy almost, And I tell them to
shoe away. I shoe them off and say, going, man,
(14:02):
get out of Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Go find your dad, tell him to get over here.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, I'm not looking for you.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
What you say like you just tell him like like
sitting down and say, hey, all these ladies out here
to be yours, like every single one of them. You
don't have to chance off any bucks. You don't have
to worry. Just show me your grandfather and bring him
over here or your dad either one. I'll take care
of about that.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Bring him out of that sear patcher, bring him out
of that little hole that he's in there, and yeah,
don't want a fight, and let him kick your butt
a little bit, and then.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Then we're good. Well, I appreciate it, Kodyak. We're gonna
jump over. We're gonna take a real quick small break,
but we're then we're going to jump over to mister
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(17:29):
Welcome back. We are we are heading up to Minnesota
and Thomas allen favorite guest, big Buck Killer Turkey's like
the dude hunts it all.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Now.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Now he's gonna be He's gonna become a land baron
at some point. I'm waiting for that because now he
is he is selling properties like hunting properties. So if
you're listening to this and you have an interest in
either selling your place or acquiring, he's going to be
your man. Thomas Allen, welcome in.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Hey, Kevin, you have low standards as usual, but yes,
thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here, happy
to spend a story or two.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Well, you know what story I want to hear because
we all set standards for ourselves, like we all say,
you know, I want to harvest X. I want to
harvest X like type of deer, and sometimes we don't
achieve those. So talk to me about what your rub
report is and how your season's been.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Well, let's let's start out a little bit of what's
going on in Minnesota today. I woke up, woke up
to a balmy negative eleven. Coldest era of the season
is here. Our lakes are mostly froze over. Tommy was
out last night checking ice on a lake nearby four
to six inches. So like, we're getting into ice fishing
seasons right.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Around the corner. Something we love here.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
That's a thing.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Yeah, it's it's a thing here. Interestingly, the last two nights,
last two afternoons, the biggest and this is not a giant,
but the biggest buck we've had on camera in our
yard has daylighted, so we have daylight pictures of this deer.
And I was actually going to get up early this morning,
It's true story. I was gonna run out and side
in the muzzloader because that season opened up here on
(19:15):
a week ago, hoping that Tommy would want to get
out and take advantage maybe sit tonight. And I went
upstairs while he was drinking his grown up man coffee
and he said, no, Dad, I don't want to go,
said buddy, that deer's out there. You don't want to go.
He's like, Dad, I'm tired of freezing. Every time I go,
I don't see anything. I'm like, okay, so I was
(19:36):
going to get up and go sight in the muzzloader
today being way behind, but I think I didn't have
to be talked out of going.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
He said he wasn't interested. So maybe tomorrow.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
But it's been an interesting season here. There's a whole
nother story we don't have time to get into, but
it's probably for a later date.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Of just the way things happen.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
Yeah, like my daughter, who doesn't hunt very often, got
a shot at the target buck that Tommy was after.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
We near had a family breakdown, hot mess.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
But I would tell you in the North, I would
say we had a pretty normal rut, wasn't It wasn't
a super fast like two three days. It was deer everywhere.
We had a pretty consistent, like seven to ten day
period where we had daylight photos and it was It
was exciting enough, but I didn't really have a lot
of time to invest. Kevin, Tommy did he hunted a bunch.
(20:29):
You kind of alluded to this earlier. I switched careers
this summer. I had a twenty year career in the
outdoor industry working on the fishing side of things. Loved it,
super grateful for it. Decided to take a turn and
I'm now of a land agent, so because that those
paychecks depend on the amount of work and time I
put in, I just didn't have a lot of time
this fall to hunt.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Hey, I've been trying to get you on the show,
I mean all fall, like every single request I sent out,
you know, And I know you're busy, like I mean,
I just I just understand that, But man, you are
you are hard to get hold of.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
I apologize I have missed the sound of your gravelly
voice griping in my ear about.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
This, that or the other thing. But no, I do
you know.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
It's been a It takes a little effort to kind
of get the momentum going in this space. And one
thing I can tell you, we can do a whole
another show about to down the road. But yeah, there's
a tremendous barrier to entry if you want to get
into land sales, like you got to be committed to
it and understand that you're going to go four to
six months or more without really having any pay. And
thank god, my wife is a hard working woman and
(21:37):
doesn't mind sharing her health insurance with us.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Because this house depends on it. We're going to get there.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, you'll get there. I have no doubt, but let's
we will, because I do want to get you back
on to just talk about purchasing hunting land, what to
look for. I want to get to that episode, like,
because that's a huge Like a lot of guys are
in that stage of their life where it's like hunting
is becoming a rich man's sport. Don't let people fool you,
(22:04):
Like the barriers to entry in this space are huge,
like it is becoming a rich man's sport. And I'm sorry,
but it kind of pisses me off, and maybe I
perpetuate some of that, And I'm sorry if I come
across that way, but I'm lucky, Like i'll hunt public land,
but I'm lucky that I have a lease and I
have private land that I can hunt. So I want
(22:25):
to get into that. That's a whole episode, and we
might just have a couple of land agents on and
just go through that. But yeah, I'm sorry, I got
onto like a little stool there that was about four
or five inches off the ground.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
I kind of feel like we need to segue just
a minute, because I think on this very show, we've
often talked about your concern about my standards. Yeah, we've
evaluated this deeply. I've been criticized, probably accurately in particular
back to a visit Tommy and I had to Oklahoma,
where you knew I had a standard. I wanted to
(23:01):
stick to it and listen, I don't need to brag
like I love shooting old ugly bucks.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I liked. I just fascinated by old deer.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
But and I think anybody that is a committed white
tail hunter, and really it might it might just go
across all big game species.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
If you've dedicated to a specific species.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
There are about five phases, as they say, right, and
I'm gonna go through real briefly. You got your your
entry level right, You're you're shooting everything and anything that moves.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
You're in the pile them up phase.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
Phase two, you're starting to realize that there's more opportunity.
You might pass a few small bucks, but you're going
to shoot a mediocre deer. Phase three kind of gets
into that I'm gonna shoot a bigger buck, but I
have a lot of time to commit and end up
shooting an icer deer, maybe looking at age structure, maybe
looking at management. Phase four, you're really committed to a
big animal, but you're still willing to sacrifice those standards.
(23:53):
Phase five is and really this is where I I
guess I would associate with and and bless everybody across
the whole phase transition, Like you gotta be committed to that.
Like I love hunt with my kids, that's phase five.
I love chasing a particular dear. I will pass here,
I'll eat a tag to get the right deer in
front of me. But I think what's not been talked
(24:13):
about is phase six. And this is the d GAF phase.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Right, this is.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
Where you've put in countless hours, days, weeks, mosquito bites.
You know, you got chiggers up and your your unmentionables,
Like there is a point where you have got to.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Kill one and whatever walks out. That's stage.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
I have a great friend that has given me permission
to work with him and build a property in northern Minnesota.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
His name is Brandon.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
He's a very challenging person to get along with, but
we get along swell because we're the same uh. But
long story short, we had high hopes. His property isn't
a part of the state that offers opportunity if you're
willing to give it at big animals.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Yeah, we have a lot of time. This year, we
put in.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
Seven acres of food plots. Maybe not quite that much,
but seven food plots. Had some replan issues, the whole
thing that comes along with land management, and we got
to the last day of Minnesota's rifle season. I hunted
for four days. That's the equivalent amount of time that
I had committed. And on the last morning, we had
(25:24):
a little tweener buck come out to say.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Wait, between seventy yards, tweener buck, what's a tweiner buck?
Like I want you to say it.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
He might have more, he might have He's like he's
a little bigger and a spike. Okay, but maybe not
maybe not measurably like there were other little nubs or whatever.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Let's just say this.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
He came out to seventy yards and the old starvation
empty freezer took control and I let the six or
five creed more eat.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Was there anything left?
Speaker 5 (25:56):
If you have a picture, you need to at least here.
Let me put up a picture to honor this guy
because he did.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Time in the woods. Well, and he'll eat. Just listen
where I look.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
I'm not sorry, No, listen, this is what it came
down to and this is this is.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
On a serious note, we as a culture have put
so much value on hunters based on what they can kill.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
And I think you walk it.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
Through everybody, through everybody's trophy room, and you can probably
get a pretty good gauge on what you're capable of.
But that that was fun, Like I had a good
time with that. I didn't have to drag him far.
And if I did, I could have done it by myself.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
You could have sung it, you shoulder.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
But there comes a point where I think you just
need to let let one hit the ground.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
And Brandon and I have.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
Decided we're gonna call this, we call Phase six. He's
gonna just have to do this year.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah. So I have no problem with that. And and
guys that showed me dear like that, I'm like, man,
you work, you work hard for it. Are you happy?
And they're always they're like, yeah, I had a great time. Awesome.
It doesn't matter now I will say.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
And listen, I was gonna say, like, you know, naturally
I shoot that deer, fill my tag. All the bucks
come out of the wood work up there. You know,
it is what it is. But there's an element to
I'm limited on time. I put in a lot of
effort in between changing careers. All the stuff didn't have,
the money spent spent on gas still went. And if
(27:27):
that's what I have to show for it, I'm alright
with that because it still gave me an experience that
I wanted. It gave me the food that we needed,
and I'm happy as a clam. And I honestly thought
after I shot it, I'm like, I can't believe how
great that was, Kevin.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
It was refreshing.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
It's almost like I stepped back to being a younger
man and I'm like, yeah, this is what it's about.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
This is what it feels like. Yeah, it was good.
Oh my god, I'm telling it's there is something to
just going out enjoying your time in the woods and
just and just taking a deer that you're gonna be
happy with. There's something to be said about that. Now
do we put and we put too much pressure on ourselves.
I mean, because you sit here and look and like
(28:11):
Kodiak may say the same thing is that we put
so much pressure on ourselves to like I have to
kill the big buck, and like I can't imagine the
pressure he Kodiak's under. And we can have him talk
about that here in a second. But like to have
to feel those freezers, to have to like show those horns, like, hey,
this is what you can expect when you're with me,
(28:32):
Like that's a big amount of pressure.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
It is. But let me let me kind of parallel
this with what I alluded to earlier. So we had
a big deer that my son was hunting. My daughter
wounded the deer. We didn't find it. He showed back up.
He's still lives as far as we know.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
I was mentioned that, but I asked Tommy had a
near breakdown. We had to have a father son come
to Jesus talk about how the deer should affect our
behavior or how it shouldn't. And I had to ask
this question. I said, why why is it so important
for you to kill that deer? Well, Dad, I want
one on the wall that I can I can be
proud of. I said, well, you have others, yeah, but
(29:08):
I you know, we always want more.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
There's nothing wrong with that. So why is that deer
important to you? Said?
Speaker 5 (29:12):
So when people come and visit they can see I said,
all right, let's talk about that. You're not wrong in
wanting to accomplish that, But if you're shooting that deer
to appease your your peer group or to get the
attention of people on social media, then you probably ought
to just hang it up and go fishing, because it
ain't about what you make other people feel. You need
to have that mentality in your mind that when you
(29:34):
pull the trigger, it's about you. Yeah, and I'm not
justifying shooting a small deer because I had a good
time with it. But what I'm saying is a culture
we've drifted away from what it means to us and
have focused on what our decisions in the woods mean
to other people.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
And that's where I'm done. Like I've had it with that.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
The outdoor industry pushes that, not in a bad way
all the time, but sometimes that to me meant something.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
A lot of times it happens. But all right, hey,
let's uh, let's jump in. Let's bring Kodiak back in.
I think is a great conversation that we're having right
now on on pressure that we put on ourselves, and
I honestly, I really kind of want to hear what
Kodiak has to say about that. Uh kodiak. So I
(30:16):
got to ask you, man, do we put too much
pressure on ourselves? Is the outdoor industry putting too bunch pressure?
Are we trying to live up to standards on socials?
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Kind of funny? I the other day, I or yesterday
I just put up it was my day off and
my wife needed to write into work because she doesn't
like driving the snow. So I put up my buck
that I killed in Missouri on a scoring page and
a couple other white tail public pages. And in my eyes,
he's only like a one thirty five to one forty
maybe one forty five, and he was on a run
(30:47):
and I shot him. So to the standards point, I
feel like we are kind of held to that we
have to shoot a big buck, We have to shoot
something that everybody's going to be jealous of type thing.
As a as a guide, I do have a lot
of stress on my shoulders and put it on myself
that I if I don't successfully help someone find an
animal that that it it's kind of my fault. But
(31:09):
all I can do as a guy to give them
the opportunity they have to take that and succeed and
make it count, but I definitely try within my best
to make sure that they're going to succeed. Make sure
guys can shoot. Not that everybody can't, but like you said,
there's those levels of the intermediate and one, two, three, four,
(31:31):
five and even the six.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
But the.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I think that, yes, we do kind of get held
that high and put a little bit of stress on
ourselves to where we if we don't fill our freezers,
it's kind of a waste of time. But the memories
are what we need to remember. And we all talked
about a little bit. You both briefly spoke that it's
kind of getting expensive and it's a rich man's game.
I totally agree with that, and I want the blue
(31:56):
collar guys to be able to go out and hunt
and not feel as stressed, but also be able to
make those memories that kids, grandkids, wives and significant others
husbands are all going to remember and not necessarily worry
about the freezer being full. That's all of our point,
and our goal is to thrill a freezer. But if
we don't, like, don't hold it over ourselves and don't
(32:18):
let it eat at you, and we're all going to
lose a buck once or twice. If you have enough,
you're going to lose a buck. You're going to hit
a buck and not make a great contact with them,
and it all plays into a factor. But if we
were maybe able to take a little bit of that
stress off of our shoulders, it would be come a
little easier, and that way we would be able to
(32:40):
put more thoughts into getting being more successful instead of
worrying about how successful we are when we are successful.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah, I agree, dollas, have you got anything else?
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Well? I think that.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
There's kind of a growing perception here about if you're
taking pictures of the sunrise, you're not seeing the year,
you're not catching fish like I think there's some truth
to that. And I and listen, I've hunted white tails
in half a dozen states.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
You know, I love it. I really really do it.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
It's one of the most fascinating critters that walks the
face the earth.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
I love a turkey too. But I'm not.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
Taking away at all from those that want to perform
at that high level. If you have the opportunity to, like,
this's my dream, right, I would like to own my
own land and have enough dirt to manage and pass.
Dear and be confident they're going to make it to
the next year. That's I think all of our goals
in the long run. But what people have this tendency
to think is like, oh, if you shoot a one
and a half year old buck, you're robbing an opportunity
(33:38):
for me, even if you're in a different state, or
even if you're in the same town. I just like
it is it is within the realms of management a
renewable resource. And like, I didn't ruin the entire state
of Northern Minnesota's hunting by shooting a one and a
half year old buck. But that's what people like to
kind of imply, like, I hate you for shooting that.
What kind of message are you you're putting out there
(34:00):
the incoming generations of hunting. And no nobody said this
to me specifically, but that's the stigma that you fight
online if you care to engage in that. So I
think what it comes down to is get your experience.
I want more people to enjoy the sport. The more
people that we have involved in it, the better the
industry is, the healthier the sport is, the stronger the awareness. Right,
(34:21):
there's a lot of good things, but don't feel like
you're cheating yourself out of an experience by filling your
freezer with a good buck or something you're happy with.
And this goes If my son right here, I'd say
this to him, like, you don't need to shoot that
big buck to have my respect, buddy, I want you
to have an experience you're proud of, and on top
of that, an experience you can learn from.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
If that's a spike, that's awesome. If it's a big buck, awesome.
But to me, both of.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
Those animals together at that early part is being a
developing bowhunter. They're both valuable and don't overlook the stair
steps to becoming a big trophy hunter.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
And I like big bucks, but.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
We all do sometimes right.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
Sometimes sometimes a little one is just gonna have to do.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yep, that's stayed. Six buck is just he's one step
away at all times. So let's jump back over. Kodiak. Kodiak,
tell people where they can go to find out more
about Like if someone's in Colorado or they they need
a guide, you're the man, tell them where they can
go find out more about it.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Because I'm coming. I want to a white tail with you.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, sure, Now, the problem like I say, uh so,
me and my wife were currently in the works of
getting all this together. Raghorn Outfitters, we are, and we
can just a little bit of the name. I chose
Raghorn Outfitters because there's a lot of guides that pride
themselves on those big trophies and outfitters that pride themselves
on those monster bucks and those monster bulls. And I'm
(35:52):
not saying that with Raghorn Outfitters, We're not going to
give you an opportunity at a monster bull or buck.
But we are out there mainly for the cost effective.
I am not necessarily trying to undercut everybody else, but
I'm trying to make those those blue collar guys be
able to afford a hunt. We are out here, like
I said, based out of the Eastern Plains in Callahan, Colorado.
(36:15):
My wife and my buddy's wife are making an Instagram
and a web page right now as we speak. That
will be I will I can get links and over
to you, Kevin, and and and then I can we
can put them out there and I can have contacts.
I can even put out my phone number for now,
just so people can get a hold of me. I've
been on the phone for the last week with guys
(36:35):
every night all night. One guy talked to me for
two hours. But we're out here. We're out here trying
to get the the the prices of these hunts down
where we're offering almost half the rate of everybody else.
Because my goal is not to get a check or
(36:55):
or receive a handful of cash at the end of
this That is really kind of the last of my worries.
My biggest thing is making it like a family experience
to where everybody that comes out with ragmort Outfitters feels
like they are part of our family and that I'm
helping them feel their freezer. And again, it's not about
making the money and taking these guys out and just
(37:17):
putting them on a big animal. It's about making the
experience fun for them and being able to have enough
money to still provide for their family. Because all we
all know that hunting seasons kind of fall that the
later seasons fall around the holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas and all
that and New Year's and people are spending money on
(37:39):
gifts and stuff like that, and they don't have the
money to spend seven thousand dollars on an el cutting
that's why we're coming in at Our pricing is going
to be eighteen hundred dollars for a buck antelope. Our
pricing is going to be like three thousand dollars for
a mule deer hunt versus seven thousand dollars on at
five to seven on an average. We're really trying to
(37:59):
make get affordable for everybody and to where they don't
they can bring their kids. And the guy that I
spoke with for two hours on the phone, he is
wanting to book six hunts for him and his brother
to take their two kids hunting. He mentioned that he
wasn't able to do that with a lot of other
outfitters because they can't go drop twenty thousand albumers for
two hunts.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
It just doesn't work, I think. Problem. So let's jump
back over to Thomas Allen. Thomas Allen, someone needs some
land or they need to sell some land. Where are
they going to find out about you?
Speaker 5 (38:31):
Well, first of all, Kodiak's doing is awesome. I'm intrigued
by that, and I think the more people kind of
start looking I'm not saying to shoot small deer, but
what I did, what you're doing, I think there's a
reset coming in the industry and there's a reset.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
I appreciate you doing.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
I appreciate that, Like I hope there's a reset coming,
and I mean that's what we need. We need to
reset and go hey, wait, are are we just out
there selling gear? And then it's like this high level
experience or are we like we're filling those freezers we're
having and still having the experience? Like I want it.
I want a reset, com like, let's bring it.
Speaker 5 (39:10):
Yeah, yes, yeah, And again, like I said before, it's
not about taking down anybody else.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
You do it the way you want.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
To do it, and that's what I want to agree.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
It's the beauty of this. So anyway, off soapbox.
Speaker 5 (39:20):
Uh. So I'm licensed in Minnesota. So anything that anybody
looking for for hunting opportunities or recreational properties farms, that's
what I specialize in. I work with Midwest Land Group
based out of the Kansas City area, so they're all
over the Midwest. They're in Louisiana, Kevin. I think they're
in Colorado. So it's a Midwestern organization that the brokers
(39:42):
Land deals and I'm proud to be a part of
their organization. So right now we're getting the ball rolling,
learning a little bit along the way. I just had
an hour conversation about a tax assessment. You want to
talk about that, I know something about it, but uh,
we think what our I think our what our collective
goal here is making dreams come true and that's that's
what I'm hoping to do. So excited about what's to come.
(40:04):
And it's been a fun ride so far.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
So that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Well, midwest landgroup dot com. That's the website. What is it,
midwest landgroup dot com?
Speaker 1 (40:14):
All right, go check them out. All right, guys, thank
you for joining us. And hey, as always, gun talk hunters,
you know the drill, keep those muscles point in a
safe direction and always be on the hunt.
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