In This Hour:
-- Lessons from the New Orleans Terror Attack.
-- Should public shootings cause you to change your choice of carry gun?
-- How to avoid innocent bystanders when defending yourself in public.
Gun Talk 01.05.24 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Lessons from the New Orleans Terror Attack.
-- Should public shootings cause you to change your choice of carry gun?
-- How to avoid innocent bystanders when defending yourself in public.
Gun Talk 01.05.24 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Ruger Sfaar is one of the Trim's three eight
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, well, hello again, I'm Tom Gresham and this is
gun Talk and I am back in the saddle again,
actually back in the studio again. We've been traveling all
over the country for five weeks having a good time
and now we're back and I am really glad to
be back here, and Dad that you're with us as well.
And it is, in fact the start of a new year.
How about that we're in twenty twenty five. Who to
(00:33):
thunk it? Right? A lot of things for us to
talk about. We can look back, we look forward, and
we can kind of do a reassessment. That is, after all,
what we tend to do when we roll into a
new year. It's a good opportunity. Whether you do it
or not, that's a different deal. But you can assess
what has happened, you can look forward to what might
be happened, or the things you may want to change.
(00:54):
And we'll be talking about that affair amount today because
I want to talk about, honestly, your personal safety and
the safety and security of your family and what's involved
in that. And it's not necessarily guns and AMMO, and
many times it's not, although that could be a part
of it. And we'll be talking about that a lot
(01:16):
of his mindset, and we'll talk about what that means,
a lot of his commitment and what does that mean.
The willingness to put yourself out there, to talk about
it with your family, to make changes in not necessarily
upheavals in the way you live, but maybe some small
changes can make big differences. And we'll talk about that. Also.
(01:40):
Maybe it is time, and this is something I want
to throw out there, maybe it is time for you
to take a look at your everyday carry your eedc
the handgun that you carry, the gear that you carry.
Do you need bigger? Do you need more? Do you
need different sites? Do you need other stuff? They answer
to a lot of that is probably yes. But because
(02:02):
that's always the way, or as I always say, the
answer is always the same, It depends. There's the rub.
So there we go. So as we launch into the
new year. Oh yeah, by the way, if you want
to join us, if you've got to range a port
a gun, you want to tell us about something you
got for Christmas, something you got or you want to
get into It really doesn't matter. We're pretty much always
(02:22):
open lines when it comes to subject matter. You can
give you a call it Tom Talk Gun. We do
it that way because it's very easy to remember. Just
dial Tom Talk Gun and you'll be on the air
with us here, Okay. And you don't have to agree
with me. In fact, it's soft and better if you don't,
because in the conversation, as we're disagreeing with each other,
sometimes we will each to learn something and the people
(02:43):
who are listening most certainly will learn something out of it.
So I invite that as well. So don't feel like
you have to agree with the things I'm saying here.
If you take issue with them, give me a call
and but be prepared to tell me why. Okay, fair enough, Okay.
So we have this horrific event that happens New Year's
Day in New Orleans, a terrorist attack, clearly, and I
(03:06):
want to talk about the what happened? What can we
learn from it? Are there takeaways from that? Now? Honestly,
there's no one better to talk about that with me
than Wayne Black from Wayne Black Associates. Wayne How are you,
my friend?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I'm fine, sure.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Happy New Year?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Happy New Year. Just quick background for people who may
not know, your background is one of well, it's varied.
Something you can talk about, something you can't. A lot
of personal protection, VIP protection, asset protection all over the
world literally and many continents. As well as doing school security.
You provide school security training pro bono, which is an
(03:45):
amazing thing given the level of background and everything that
you have. So you have this interesting background, and right
after this thing happened in New Orleans, we got on
the horn talk to each other. Let me just ask you,
you have some thoughts. You worked with police departments and
agencies of all levels. What are your first thoughts, your
first takeaways about what happened to New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Well, in our business, Tom, we always say, if it's predictable,
it's preventable. So why didn't they predict this? I mean,
we've been talking about these vehicle boyds. We call them
vas vehicle as a weapon VAW. We've been talking about that.
The first one was back in nineteen sixty four in Taipei,
and then we had France and Germany and all these
(04:30):
all over the country.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
It's been happening in Israel.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
It's if it's predictable, it's preventable. So why didn't they,
you know, prevent it? Why didn't they They had those barriers,
they had the devices, why didn't they put them down
in advance? And that's that's the crazy thing that I
can't wrap my head around. And then everybody saw that
news conference, which was a mess. We didn't know what
(04:55):
we were talking about there, that FBI set it's not
a terrorist attack. The police chief just pretty much threw
her hands up and said, well, we had a plan,
but they beat us.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So and then it turns out she didn't even know
that they had some of the devices they could have
put up. And let me just say this, having lived
just outside of New Orleans for a number of years,
I can just tell you it is one of the
most dysfunctional police departments you will ever find. Which is
not to negate the actions of the individual officers who
ran to the situation and shot this guy to stop
(05:28):
the attack, that's a different deal. But as far as
just a complete department level, it is a joke beyond belief. NPD.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, it starts, you know, it starts from the top
if I'm New Orleans, I don't know if I'd hire
a police chief that was fired from Oakland as the
police chief.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
But but that's just me.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, so let's just spin this up. I mean, yeah,
can New Orleans root it up? But individual officers did,
in fact run to the problem when this guy got
out of his truck and started shooting people. They shot
him and killed him, which, okay, kudos to them. So
(06:13):
let me ask you this. You do a lot of
firem's training for individuals, for law enforcement, for agency people.
You work with the very best, and you know mom
and pop who come to you. Are there things? Are
there takeaways for the individual to think about and maybe
make some changes in what they do.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
One hundred percent. You know, we have finance classes. We
trained law enforcement and also private farm security at schools,
and when we get people in the classroom, to begin
with Tom, I always say, let me see your hands
if you met your first responders. So if you got
thirty people in a class, maybe two or three raise
their hands and I always say, well, I'm looking at them.
(06:55):
If you're the first responders, the police are the second,
fire is third, everybody else's fourth and fifth. You have
to take care of yourself and your family first. You
are the first responders, so you've got to be prepared.
You've got to have the cognitive training that is to say,
go through in your mind. You can do this in
your living room.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
What if what if.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I'm at a restaurant and this happens. What if I'm
at an event and this happens. What if I was
on that street in New Orleans and this happened? What
would I do? And could I do that? And does
my training that's hopefully regular training allow me to do that.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
What you're really describing is a lot of different way
to put it, getting your mind right, getting it your
thinking right, the idea that you have to decide you
are the first responder, that no one else is there
to take care of you. Once you really make that
a part of who you are, and that's that's not easy.
That requires some work to say, Okay, I am the person.
(07:55):
I'm the one who's going to take care of me
and my family. Then there's a lot of things that
flow from that, which is like, okay, then what what
do I need to do? What kind of training do
I need?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
What?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And you go through these what if deals like you're
talking about it, or we talk about if then or
maybe even when then. And I thought about that guy's
trying to run people down the street. I'm going to
go plaster myself against a wall, I mean hard and
chase I mean me. He could rake me off of there,
but I'm increasing my chances. But I've already made that
decision today while I'm sitting in this chair, not while
(08:27):
I'm on the street trying to figure out what's going on.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, I mean it's the old Boda loup, you know,
observe orientticide and acts. You've got to do it now
because at the time you can't do it. Remember the
last time I was on you and I talked about
terror attacks in this country, and I said it was
one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
It's not.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
It's not if it's when we've got escalated terror attacks
because of our border coming. If you listen to somebody
like Sarah Adams, who's a CIA targeter, if she's talking
about what's happening with Ben Lodge's son, Hamsa Bin Lodd,
and he's trying to urge all the terroor groups together
to do the suicide vest attacks here in the United States.
(09:05):
So and that's all open source information. You can imagine
what's what's confidential. So it's coming. There's one hundred percent
chance we're going to have more. We need to be
able to prepare. Look, the bad guys only have to
be right once. We have to be right every time.
And as long as our FBI, hopefully that will change,
as long as our FBI is still chasing down parents
(09:28):
at school boards and people in Catholic churches and again
arresting grandmothers at apportion of clinics, you know that it's
going to be hopefully be refocused with the new director.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Do people you teach a lot of firearms training and
you're you're good at this stuff, do people need to
possibly take a fresh look at what they carry and
their ability to use it?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
You know that.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I've got some of your listeners have this. They don't
the gunshop and you say, okay, I want to carry
what should I get? I see it all the time.
I witness it at gunshop. Well, where you going to
carry it? That the salesperson says he wants to sell anything, Well,
I'm gonna carry it, Okay, I'm let's say in my pocket.
Maybe Okay, Well, here's a little thirty two or three
eighty with pink grips, and you can use that or
(10:19):
am I going to carry it? I'm like, well, how
am I going to carry it? So that's what happens.
And then you get this little thing that hurts your
hand when you shoot it, and you don't practice with it,
and if you don't practice with it, you can't hit
anything with it. So that's that's what I see. What
about you?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Well exactly that I'm hearing some people who are serious
about this saying, you know, I like my little nine,
but I'm going to go to a large a little
bit larger nine because I can shoot it better and
I'm going to have more AMMO. And maybe it's time
to really make the move to a red dot's sight
because I know realistically that I'm a lot better off
with that. And here's what I suggest to people's look,
(10:59):
imagine it's not imagine it's not the guy who's trying
to steal your wallet, but it's three or four guys
with rifles who decided to kill everybody in sight. And
they're twenty five or thirty five or forty or fifty yards,
not feat yards away. Can you put shots on target
and maybe not kill them all, but at least distract
(11:20):
them from the killing they're doing and give time for
the responders to show up.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Yeah, you're right. So a couple of years ago, I'm
getting up up in years. You're a youngster compared to me,
but I'm getting up in yourself. I went to a
glock MILEL forty five and nine milimeter with a red
dot and I took the three took a three day
red dot course, and so I can hold it at
(11:45):
twenty five yards and like shoot a lot, but I
can hold like a four or five inch group at
twenty five yards. Now, if I go the prone for
a quick meal or a sitting position, I can be
be pretty good even in a stressful sit relationship. But
people have to have to decide, they have to make
a conscious decision to try that. And if you just
(12:05):
go to a square range all the time with a
bunch of people, you put your pistol on the bench
and you look at a paper target, I don't think
you're going to get there. And then then that is
there's that old wow. Should I carry a forty four
magnum like Clinteewood or should I carry a nine milimeter.
It's all about shot placement. It doesn't matter if you
(12:26):
miss with a forty five ACP that's not as good
as a hit with a twenty two.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Well, there it is. And I mean, I think this
is just an opportunity for a lot of people to
do some reassessment. We'll talk about that on the back end. Wait,
I want to thank you for your efforts here and
just send people to Wane Black dot com if you
want to find out more about what you're doing. And
by the way, thank you for all the help you
give to school security teams. That is so important.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Ye're very welcome. Thank you sir.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
All right, you take care, all right. Question on the
floor number here is eight six y six Talk Gun
or Tom Talkgun. Have you considered maybe making a change
in your gear in your everyday carry? If you haven't,
I have some suggestions. I'll bring those up on the backside.
I'll see you then.
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Speaker 10 (15:27):
Gun Talk hits thirty years.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
What does gun talk meant to you?
Speaker 10 (15:30):
Record a short message to Tom on your phone, include
your name and where you live and brief congratulations message
and email it to Tom at gun talk dot com.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
So what are you going to be working on in
this year? Are you working on becoming a better shot,
a better shooter, working on your defensive skills, working on
your we call it ed see everyday carry the gun
you carry or if you're not carrying a gun at all?
(16:08):
We ought to have that conversation, I think, I mean really,
if you aren't joining me, it's pretty easy. You give
me a call at tom Talk gun So question on
the floor. Do you carry a gun? If you don't
tell me why? And I get it. If you say, okay,
(16:28):
well I can't carry it work okay, not a great situation.
But do you carry to and from work? Do you
have a lock box in your car? Because look, if
you got to leave a gun in your car, can
I suggest you really do need a lock box of
some sort in there. The number one reason that people
(16:51):
break into cars to steal stuff is to steal guns,
and they get a lot of guns that way. You
don't want them to get yours. For a number of reasons,
you don't want to lose your gun. You also don't
want to contribute to a bad guy. Having your gun
seems fair. So do you carry all the time?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know people say we can't carry
all the time to get carried on an airline. Yeah,
I get that. Okay, Well, when we say all the time,
it means everywhere we can as much as we can,
making a lifestyle commitment. And now this is yet another
the latest reminder that maybe you're going to need to
(17:28):
make a shot that's a little longer than the typical.
People say, oh, the average gunfights three to five feet. Yeah,
that's utterly meaningless. It may not be true anymore. I
think those stats come from forty years ago. Fifty years ago.
I think when we think about a situation like this,
(17:48):
and you heard me say it here, before. And I
know people wonder this, what are you talking about? Why
would you even think about making a shot of twenty
five yards seventy five feet or your handgun? And then
people say, well, how could you possibly defend that in court?
To that self defense? That's not gonna be a problem.
Guy shooting up a school bus, I'm gonna put shots
(18:11):
on him from however far away I am. I'm perfectly
okay defending that in court. A guy is shooting a
whole bunch of people, I got a chance to put
shots on him. I don't have a problem with that. Well,
how often does that happen? More often than you think?
Two cases in point all right, we've had Andy Brown
(18:33):
on the show here before. Andy Brown back in nineteen
ninety four, and he wrote a book about it which
I highly recommend. He was a police officer at the
fair Child Air Force Base. In his book, Warnings Unheeded,
he talks about this a guy that they knew was
a problem and the Air Force wouldn't do anything about it,
(18:55):
and everybody predicted this guy was going to end up
shooting up people, and he did. He goes to the
hospital to kill the who had tried to help him.
Andy jumps on his bicycle, not making this up, jumps
on his bicycle and bicycles to the scene at the
crime where the mass shooting is taking place. And this
guy's got a rifle. Here's what Andy did before he
(19:15):
jumps on that bicycle. Months before, maybe a year or
two orfore, the Air Force had him carrying a Beretta
ninety two Model nine nine. But the Air Force wouldn't
let him take it home and wouldn't let him train
with it, and they had virtually no training for him.
Andy got serious about this, so he bought a Taurus,
(19:38):
less expensive version of the same pistol, and he bought
his own AMMO, and he shot all the time, and
shot a lot because he said he was going to
make sure that he was good enough to take care
of the threat. When the threat showed up, Andy pedals
over there, gets off of his bicycle. This guy is
shooting people. He's now outside. He was in the hospital,
(19:59):
now he's outside. And his first shots were from more
than seventy yards away with this bread of nine millimeter,
and he fired four shots. He hit this guy at
least twice from seventy yards away, stopping the murders He
(20:22):
was able to do that because he was serious about
this and he had spent the money, made the commitment,
done the training, done the practice, bought the AMMO, and
decided that he was going to be the guy who
could stop this. The reality is that's not for everybody.
(20:43):
Most people are not going to do that. Even most
people who carry guns are not going to do that.
I don't care about most people. I care about me.
I can care about my family. You should care about
you and your family. That's the deal. And then the question,
you know, people say, well I would do anything for
my family. Really, you're not showing that you're carrying a
(21:06):
thirty eight snubby and you haven't been to the range
this year, and you've never taken a defensive shooting class
in your life. And yet you're the guy that's going
to proclaim, well, I don't do anything for my family.
I don't think so your actions belie your words if
you want spend the money to take a class, and look,
(21:29):
let's get this straight again one more time. Going to
the range and shooting is not training. Going to the
range and shooting is practice. Training is a class with
an instructor where you learn new things and then you
take those new things you learn and you practice. You
need both of those. You need training that is with instructor,
(21:52):
and you need practice at the range. If you won't
do that, please don't tell me that you do anything
for your family, because I don't believe it anymore. So
the question is what are you committed to do? What
are you willing to do in twenty twenty five to
give you and your family the best chance of surviving?
(22:23):
All Right, we'll have with you here. Tom Gresham our
number eight sixty six, Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun.
Kevin called in out of Arkansas. He'th on line too.
Hey Kevin, thanks for holding I know you you got
to run off to some place, so I appreciate your time.
How can we help you?
Speaker 5 (22:37):
Yeah, no worries. And Tom, I really just came across
your show. Thank you for being there. It's a good,
good show, So thank you.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
You had originally brought up the topic of the Vegas
drive driving.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Incident and in New Orleans, New Orleans, I thank you.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
I'm sorry Orleans, yes man that there was only talk
about the background down range not being clear. I don't
know how that would have worked out too well for
many people and then maybe a one percent shot is
hitting the tire or the head, and then you're you're
put your down.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Range is all.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
It's dangerous.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You're full of people. I mean it's Bourbon Street and
it's full of people, and they are running and screaming,
and they're moving all over the place, and your point
is really well taken. How do you How do you
take a shot and not in danger innocent bystanders? Really,
I think I got some thoughts on I mean, one
(23:43):
is that you train for it. And people said, how
would you train for that? Well, you go to a
place where you can move and shoot and move between targets,
and you've got a whole bunch of targets up and
most of them are no shoots, and you've got to
get to the bad guy and puts shots on him
while you're moving around the shoots and paying attention to them. Well,
they won't let me do that at my indoor range. Yeah,
(24:05):
I know, I know. That's why I don't like indoor ranges.
I want to go someplace where I can move and
shoot and get behind cover and work and shoot from
the ground and shoot from a knee and shoot from
behind a car and lay down on the ground and
shoot underneath a car, like there's somebody on the other
side of the car. I need to put some shots
into his ankle, and then when he gets the ground,
I put some more shots into him. People go, what
(24:26):
are you talking about? I said, Well, that's called commitment.
Now let's go back to your thought here. All right,
you and I are on Bourbon Street. This guy comes
wheeling by. If I hear the car coming far enough out,
which is maybe not likely, I don't know, maybe I
can go plaster my back against the wall and maybe
(24:46):
I can get my gun out and maybe I can
put a shot into his head as he goes by
through the side mirror side window. It's if he But
once the guy crashes, here's what you know. Now he's
getting out of the car and he's got a gun
and he's starting to shoot people. That's when the police
officers started putting shots on him. And that's where you
(25:08):
or I could do the exact same thing. And you know,
one of the skills to work on is people say, well,
why would you ever want to train to move forward
in a defensive situation. Well, this might be a perfect
example of that. You've got to move through all these
people who are running to get close enough to put
an obstructed shot on this guy.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Right right, right.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
But you know, I'm glad you're you're asking the question
because we all should be thinking what would I do
in that? What are the issues? Well, you bring up
I think one of the big issues. You got people everywhere.
You can't be spraying shots. You got to put them
on target.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Right.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
Hey, you brought up another point that I really liked,
and that was kind of the psychological preparation of you know,
going in your couch in your living room, about the
different scenarios so that you can come in because you
sire psychologically. I just wish the military would do some
psychological kevlar as I call it, to ward off PTSD
(26:10):
to get these guys prepped for when they're going to
have to you know, spray and get into all the
horror of it. That there are prepped and not just
that they're psychologically prepared, I.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Think, but it's well, you know, you know the drill.
It takes time, it takes money, I mean, and that's
that's really what that's why the police officers don't get
that kind of training and they get the horrible PTSD
from shooting. So typically speaking statistically, a police officer who
gets into a lethal force situation and uses this here's
(26:43):
her gun ends up losing his job or quitting, losing
the marriage, maybe losing the house. I mean, just the
aftermath is horrendous on these and I think they're waking
up to that and now they have programs for the
after the fact. Maybe not. I don't know what the
(27:04):
situation is with the military, but it's a good point.
But let me let's just touch before I let you
go here. This idea of thinking ahead on what you're
going to do. Part of that is a lot of
that is training. I mean training me and going to
gunfighting schools, not just shooting schools, but gunfighting schools. But
the other they're sitting there in the big ezy chair,
and here's my thought. I think you have to find
(27:26):
out where's my go button and you have to be
able to hit the go button and know what that means.
The go button doesn't mean now I'm going to figure
out what's going on. You need to be doing that
all the time and being aware the go button means
I'm going for my gun and I'm going to shoot
this sov right now. I'm not waiting any more time.
The go button is I'm going to hit the mean gene.
(27:47):
I'm going to be the meanest SOB on the planet
at this time, and we're going to put a stop
to this nonsense, right freaking now.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Right.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
But I think taking a step further, is there a
Christian guys out there that are going to pay hell
psychologically with themselves in a shooting justified or not. But
if they go prepare and have that conversation with themselves
in the armchair as you suggest, it kind of goes
through the scenario, they're going to be better prepared with
(28:16):
you have for the aftermath if they've actually thought things
through beforehand.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I think you're exactly right. I think you have set
yourself up to okay. I sometimes you have to do
really bad things to save good people, and that's a shame,
but you're going to have to find a way to
live with that. And shooting someone is generally speaking thought
to be a bad thing, except that when you're saving lives,
it's a good thing. But you got to find a
(28:42):
way to wrap your head around it. Look, I appreciate
the calls, heart, thank thank you for your time. My
number here eight six six talk gun or Tom Talk gun.
It's not an easy subject and it shouldn't be approached
in a cavalier manner. But that doesn't mean we're not
strong enough to have this conversation and you're not strong
enough to incorporate it into who you are. And that's
(29:05):
I guess The real question is you head into the
new year, you got to figure out who you are,
how you're going to respond to something like this, and
how you're going to prepare for something like this. Be
right back.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
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Speaker 2 (31:41):
I'm Tom Gresham. This is gun Talking. These are some
of the things we talk about, and of course we'll
talk about cool guns. We have some conversation about that,
about new mo coming out, new cartridges coming out, a
lot of interesting things happening. We're what two weeks, three
weeks away from shot Show, the big trade show in
Las Vegas, where a lot of new products in a
lot of are coming out this week. Next week, we'll
(32:03):
have some that we can announce next week. Even when
other people are leaking the information. We don't do that.
When we give a company our word that we're not
going to leak this information ahead of their official release state,
we don't do it even when the information is already
out there and people are talking about it. Why would
we hold on to that. Well, it's kind of simple
(32:24):
because we gave our word, simple as that. All right,
number here is eight sixty six Talk Gun. Jim called
in out of Oregon. Jim, you're on gun Talk.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Go ahead, any Tom, how you doing today?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
I am? Well? What's your thought on this?
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Good? I talked to you several times before. I hope
you had a wonderful Christmas and everything. Anyway, I called
a couple of things. That the thing in New Orleans,
it seems to me as I saw a caption on
TV where they were they were showing them trying to
put some kind of barrier. Well they just take the
(33:01):
dog gun, swat trucks and put them across the road.
Make it simple.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
You can just you know what, you can park dump
trucks across the road and now you have a very
effective barrier there.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
You go dump drunk, whatever it.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Takes, and then that's available. Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
Yeah, And it was something to be simple in you'll
take five minutes. The second thing was that my carry
gun is the G twenty five, the yeah, the one,
the one you had a.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Well we created. Yeah, that is a great pistol. It is,
I mean the ten milimeters a great round and that
pistol the way it came together with Ruger and the
custom shop is just an incredible shooter. That thing just
everybody who shoots and shoots lights out with it. Do
you get to shoot it much?
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Well, yeah, I'm shoting quite a bit. I don't I
don't get out a whole lot like that was at
the beginning because I'd come down with heart failure and
I'm not able to get around as much as I
was before. But yeah, that's my carre gun and I
really love it.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Nothing wrong with that in nineteen eleven and ten milimeters
with a really good trigger and really good sites, and
we spec out on that, so well, congratulations, I'm glad
you got one of those, because those sold out and
a lot of people were looking for them after we
finished the deal on our that was to celebrate our
twenty fifth anniversary of Gun Talk and guess what this year? Actually,
in two months we hit thirty years on the air,
(34:39):
and yeah, we're gonna do a GT thirty and maybe
a GT thirty Dash one or DASH two. I don't know.
I know we got a couple coming. I don't know
what else we're going to do because you haven't thought
of it yet. And frankly, we may go to shots
Show and find something very cool then go, yeah, we
could do our own version of that and we'll come
(35:00):
up with something there. Who knows it's it's not serious.
You understand that we do put out some really good
guns for these Gun Talk guns, and we work with
these companies and they go, wow, that's a cool idea.
And sometimes they say yeah, but it'll be two years
be where we can do that. Well that's okay, maybe
we can work on something in two years. But some
(35:21):
of them go, yeah, you know, the timing is right
and this is going to work for us right now.
And actually, frankly, that's the case for the first two
for this year, which we should be able to announce
those at Shots show. So working on that as we
go forward. The idea of moving from a smaller gun
(35:43):
to a larger gun, what's that all about? Got a
lot of people are we considering their everyday carry gun. Frankly,
you can shoot bigger guns better. We know this right.
Little guns are fun to carry, easier to carry, but
big guns are easier to shoot. Like Clint Smith's famous line,
(36:03):
he says, you know your self defense, a gun is
not supposed to be comfortable. It's supposed to be comforting.
There's a difference. Oh, speaking of Clint Smith. At Thunder Ranch,
we're watching that series The Lioness, the Taylor Sheridan series.
In one of the very last episodes in the middle
of it, you've got these guys with special operators and
(36:25):
they're whopping up on somebody. They say, you know, you
take one pistol class at thunder Ranch and you think
you're an operator. And my wife and I just both
broke up laughing because both of us have trained at
thunder Ranch with Clint, so that was pretty funny. And
it's true. Yeah, one class there's not going to make
you an operator. Frankly, none of it's going to make
you an operator, but it does make you better and
(36:48):
it generally changes your mindset the way you think about things,
particularly a class at thunder Ranch or gun sight what
we do at range rated studios. At our classes, we
teach you to shoot, but it's not gunfighting.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
We'll teach you shoot fast and accurately, and those are
key points. But there's more to it than that. Along
those lines, you know, we talk about dry firing and
the value of dry firing, and I think there is
some value there, but I don't think it's as much
as people think. And yes, if you're wanting to just
put shots on target and shoot slow and learn how
(37:23):
to shoot, fine, But if you want to learn to
shoot defensively and you want to put multiple shots on target, quickly.
A key part of that is learning to shoot through recoil,
how to manage recoil and what does that take? And
I don't think you can do that With dry firing.
(37:43):
You can actually improve your draw speed, you certainly can
do that, But in terms of making accurate shots quickly,
I think you have to I think it's open for discussion.
I think you have to shoot live fire. I think
you have to learn how to control recoil. How do
you control recoil well most of its grip? How do
(38:07):
you hold your gun? Where do you have your hens?
How hard are you holding your gun? How hard are
you gripping it? And then comes trigger manipulation. We are
actually doing the reset of the trigger during recoil, so
that when you come back out of recoil and the
sites hit the target, you've already done the complete take
(38:28):
up to the last bit of pressure on the trigger.
And that's happening during the recoil, so that you're ready
to shoot again. Doesn't mean you're going to have to shoot,
but you're ready to shoot again that second, third, fourth time.
How many shots is are going to take to stop
the threat? Nobody knows you shoot until the threat is over.
(38:51):
Maybe it's one, maybe it's twelve shots. I don't know,
and you don't know, so we better train appropriately be
right back. I think what happens if you don't have
the Bill of rights. Take a look at England. Right
(39:13):
now in Britain, people are being arrested for posting things
on Facebook that caused other people to be anxious. I
am not making this up. So cherish that First Amendment
and the Second Amendment. We will talk about that in
just a bit, but right now I want to get
Tim on here from Carson City, Nevada. Tim, you got
(39:34):
some thoughts with your background. I guess in the Air Force, right, yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (39:39):
Yep, I was in the at the sixtieth Security Police
Squadron here at Travis just in Turfield, California. And the
thing is, I was just thinking of it. You really
struck a nerve with me when he brought that up
about you know, the service guys who are in the service.
Because I had to keep my weapons, any private weapon
(40:03):
at the armory. I didn't have access to the ranges,
you know, so I couldn't. You'd have to go off
base to go practice. I mean he got plenty of room,
you know, to do that, and I think that that
might be something that there's a whole crew, new crew
congressman in there who were coming in and that might
(40:24):
be a good bill to consider. I don't know what
the policy is now, that's what it was when I
was in. But to be able to offer access and
availability of the ranges right there for Pete's.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Sake, sure, No, it makes all the sense in the world.
Are you familiar with Andy Brown's story when he was
working as a I guess the police officer or a
military police for the Air Force where you had that
active shooter.
Speaker 15 (40:55):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
If you can get a copy yet, but I would
I sure recommend because it would ring true to you.
The name of the book is Warnings Unheeded, and Andy
was a gun guy, and he ended up buying his
own gun to do his own training with his own AMMO,
and because of that, he was good enough to make
a seventy yard shot with his nine to stop this
(41:17):
guy who had a rifle and was killing people. And
I think you're gonna read this and go, oh, yeah,
that makes perfect sense. I've seen the exact same thing
in my service there. Hey, Tim, I appreciate your call sir,
it's I don't understand the whole deal of military basis.
So when they say you can't have your own gun
on base, yeah, I know, people say, well, yoh, they're
(41:38):
eighteen nineteen year olds. Yeah, but they're being trusted to
handle full auto or bazookahs or tanks. So you're telling
me they're not responsible enough to have their own firearms
for their own protection on base. So we just got
a call for same old deal. Don't try to protect
(42:00):
yourself or your family. You just pick up the phone
and call and somebody else will bring a gun. Because
I mean, that's really what it amounts to. It's like
people say, guns aren't the answer. Really, what are you
going to do if something happens, I'm gonna call the police.
Where are you gonna call them? Because they're going to
bring a gun. I thought you just that guns weren't
the answer. It's like that book that is so good.
(42:23):
It says, you know, violence is rarely the answer, but
when it is, it's the only answer. I'm looking at
a story out of Indianapolis just had a couple of
guys killed knife to death. Here's the deal. When somebody
pulls out a knife it's go. Time you hit that
go button. You pull your gun to shoot them until
(42:44):
they stop right away, drop the knife, whatever, fall down.
A knife will kill you so fast you can't believe it,
especially in the hands of somebody that knows what they're doing.
You need to have made that decision, not when it happens.
You need to make that decision today, if this happens,
or rather when this happens, I will do this now.
(43:08):
You already eliminated that decision. Time you made your decision.
You see the visual stimulus. Knife comes out, gun comes out.
Bag bag ba ba ba ba ba ba bank bank, bank,
however long it takes with this threat to not be
there anymore, Like when we come back, I want to
talk about some defensive ambo that you may not have
thought of. What if the guy's hiding behind a car,
do you have something that can get to him through
(43:30):
a car?
Speaker 5 (43:31):
What?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, wait for this, This is pretty interesting stuff.
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, well, hello again, I'm Tom Gresham and this is
gun Talk and I am back in the saddle again,
actually back in the studio again. We've been traveling all
over the country for five weeks having a good time
and now we're back and I am really glad to
be back here, and Dad that you're with us as well.
And it is, in fact the start of a new year.
How about that we're in twenty twenty five. Who to
(00:33):
thunk it? Right? A lot of things for us to
talk about. We can look back, we look forward, and
we can kind of do a reassessment. That is, after all,
what we tend to do when we roll into a
new year. It's a good opportunity. Whether you do it
or not, that's a different deal. But you can assess
what has happened, you can look forward to what might
be happened, or the things you may want to change.
(00:54):
And we'll be talking about that affair amount today because
I want to talk about, honestly, your personal safety and
the safety and security of your family and what's involved
in that. And it's not necessarily guns and AMMO, and
many times it's not, although that could be a part
of it. And we'll be talking about that a lot
(01:16):
of his mindset, and we'll talk about what that means,
a lot of his commitment and what does that mean.
The willingness to put yourself out there, to talk about
it with your family, to make changes in not necessarily
upheavals in the way you live, but maybe some small
changes can make big differences. And we'll talk about that. Also.
(01:40):
Maybe it is time, and this is something I want
to throw out there, maybe it is time for you
to take a look at your everyday carry your eedc
the handgun that you carry, the gear that you carry.
Do you need bigger? Do you need more? Do you
need different sites? Do you need other stuff? They answer
to a lot of that is probably yes. But because
(02:02):
that's always the way, or as I always say, the
answer is always the same, It depends. There's the rub.
So there we go. So as we launch into the
new year. Oh yeah, by the way, if you want
to join us, if you've got to range a port
a gun, you want to tell us about something you
got for Christmas, something you got or you want to
get into It really doesn't matter. We're pretty much always
(02:22):
open lines when it comes to subject matter. You can
give you a call it Tom Talk Gun. We do
it that way because it's very easy to remember. Just
dial Tom Talk Gun and you'll be on the air
with us here, Okay. And you don't have to agree
with me. In fact, it's soft and better if you don't,
because in the conversation, as we're disagreeing with each other,
sometimes we will each to learn something and the people
(02:43):
who are listening most certainly will learn something out of it.
So I invite that as well. So don't feel like
you have to agree with the things I'm saying here.
If you take issue with them, give me a call
and but be prepared to tell me why. Okay, fair enough, Okay.
So we have this horrific event that happens New Year's
Day in New Orleans, a terrorist attack, clearly, and I
(03:06):
want to talk about the what happened? What can we
learn from it? Are there takeaways from that? Now? Honestly,
there's no one better to talk about that with me
than Wayne Black from Wayne Black Associates. Wayne How are you,
my friend?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I'm fine, sure.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Happy New Year?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Happy New Year. Just quick background for people who may
not know, your background is one of well, it's varied.
Something you can talk about, something you can't. A lot
of personal protection, VIP protection, asset protection all over the
world literally and many continents. As well as doing school security.
You provide school security training pro bono, which is an
(03:45):
amazing thing given the level of background and everything that
you have. So you have this interesting background, and right
after this thing happened in New Orleans, we got on
the horn talk to each other. Let me just ask you,
you have some thoughts. You worked with police departments and
agencies of all levels. What are your first thoughts, your
first takeaways about what happened to New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Well, in our business, Tom, we always say, if it's predictable,
it's preventable. So why didn't they predict this? I mean,
we've been talking about these vehicle boyds. We call them
vas vehicle as a weapon VAW. We've been talking about that.
The first one was back in nineteen sixty four in Taipei,
and then we had France and Germany and all these
(04:30):
all over the country.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
It's been happening in Israel.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
It's if it's predictable, it's preventable. So why didn't they,
you know, prevent it? Why didn't they They had those barriers,
they had the devices, why didn't they put them down
in advance? And that's that's the crazy thing that I
can't wrap my head around. And then everybody saw that
news conference, which was a mess. We didn't know what
(04:55):
we were talking about there, that FBI set it's not
a terrorist attack. The police chief just pretty much threw
her hands up and said, well, we had a plan,
but they beat us.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So and then it turns out she didn't even know
that they had some of the devices they could have
put up. And let me just say this, having lived
just outside of New Orleans for a number of years,
I can just tell you it is one of the
most dysfunctional police departments you will ever find. Which is
not to negate the actions of the individual officers who
ran to the situation and shot this guy to stop
(05:28):
the attack, that's a different deal. But as far as
just a complete department level, it is a joke beyond belief. NPD.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, it starts, you know, it starts from the top
if I'm New Orleans, I don't know if I'd hire
a police chief that was fired from Oakland as the
police chief.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
But but that's just me.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, so let's just spin this up. I mean, yeah,
can New Orleans root it up? But individual officers did,
in fact run to the problem when this guy got
out of his truck and started shooting people. They shot
him and killed him, which, okay, kudos to them. So
(06:13):
let me ask you this. You do a lot of
firem's training for individuals, for law enforcement, for agency people.
You work with the very best, and you know mom
and pop who come to you. Are there things? Are
there takeaways for the individual to think about and maybe
make some changes in what they do.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
One hundred percent. You know, we have finance classes. We
trained law enforcement and also private farm security at schools,
and when we get people in the classroom, to begin
with Tom, I always say, let me see your hands
if you met your first responders. So if you got
thirty people in a class, maybe two or three raise
their hands and I always say, well, I'm looking at them.
(06:55):
If you're the first responders, the police are the second,
fire is third, everybody else's fourth and fifth. You have
to take care of yourself and your family first. You
are the first responders, so you've got to be prepared.
You've got to have the cognitive training that is to say,
go through in your mind. You can do this in
your living room.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
What if what if.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I'm at a restaurant and this happens. What if I'm
at an event and this happens. What if I was
on that street in New Orleans and this happened? What
would I do? And could I do that? And does
my training that's hopefully regular training allow me to do that.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
What you're really describing is a lot of different way
to put it, getting your mind right, getting it your
thinking right, the idea that you have to decide you
are the first responder, that no one else is there
to take care of you. Once you really make that
a part of who you are, and that's that's not easy.
That requires some work to say, Okay, I am the person.
(07:55):
I'm the one who's going to take care of me
and my family. Then there's a lot of things that
flow from that, which is like, okay, then what what
do I need to do? What kind of training do
I need?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
What?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And you go through these what if deals like you're
talking about it, or we talk about if then or
maybe even when then. And I thought about that guy's
trying to run people down the street. I'm going to
go plaster myself against a wall, I mean hard and
chase I mean me. He could rake me off of there,
but I'm increasing my chances. But I've already made that
decision today while I'm sitting in this chair, not while
(08:27):
I'm on the street trying to figure out what's going on.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, I mean it's the old Boda loup, you know,
observe orientticide and acts. You've got to do it now
because at the time you can't do it. Remember the
last time I was on you and I talked about
terror attacks in this country, and I said it was
one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
It's not.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
It's not if it's when we've got escalated terror attacks
because of our border coming. If you listen to somebody
like Sarah Adams, who's a CIA targeter, if she's talking
about what's happening with Ben Lodge's son, Hamsa Bin Lodd,
and he's trying to urge all the terroor groups together
to do the suicide vest attacks here in the United States.
(09:05):
So and that's all open source information. You can imagine
what's what's confidential. So it's coming. There's one hundred percent
chance we're going to have more. We need to be
able to prepare. Look, the bad guys only have to
be right once. We have to be right every time.
And as long as our FBI, hopefully that will change,
as long as our FBI is still chasing down parents
(09:28):
at school boards and people in Catholic churches and again
arresting grandmothers at apportion of clinics, you know that it's
going to be hopefully be refocused with the new director.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Do people you teach a lot of firearms training and
you're you're good at this stuff, do people need to
possibly take a fresh look at what they carry and
their ability to use it?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
You know that.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I've got some of your listeners have this. They don't
the gunshop and you say, okay, I want to carry
what should I get? I see it all the time.
I witness it at gunshop. Well, where you going to
carry it? That the salesperson says he wants to sell anything, Well,
I'm gonna carry it, Okay, I'm let's say in my pocket.
Maybe Okay, Well, here's a little thirty two or three
eighty with pink grips, and you can use that or
(10:19):
am I going to carry it? I'm like, well, how
am I going to carry it? So that's what happens.
And then you get this little thing that hurts your
hand when you shoot it, and you don't practice with it,
and if you don't practice with it, you can't hit
anything with it. So that's that's what I see. What
about you?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Well exactly that I'm hearing some people who are serious
about this saying, you know, I like my little nine,
but I'm going to go to a large a little
bit larger nine because I can shoot it better and
I'm going to have more AMMO. And maybe it's time
to really make the move to a red dot's sight
because I know realistically that I'm a lot better off
with that. And here's what I suggest to people's look,
(10:59):
imagine it's not imagine it's not the guy who's trying
to steal your wallet, but it's three or four guys
with rifles who decided to kill everybody in sight. And
they're twenty five or thirty five or forty or fifty yards,
not feat yards away. Can you put shots on target
and maybe not kill them all, but at least distract
(11:20):
them from the killing they're doing and give time for
the responders to show up.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Yeah, you're right. So a couple of years ago, I'm
getting up up in years. You're a youngster compared to me,
but I'm getting up in yourself. I went to a
glock MILEL forty five and nine milimeter with a red
dot and I took the three took a three day
red dot course, and so I can hold it at
(11:45):
twenty five yards and like shoot a lot, but I
can hold like a four or five inch group at
twenty five yards. Now, if I go the prone for
a quick meal or a sitting position, I can be
be pretty good even in a stressful sit relationship. But
people have to have to decide, they have to make
a conscious decision to try that. And if you just
(12:05):
go to a square range all the time with a
bunch of people, you put your pistol on the bench
and you look at a paper target, I don't think
you're going to get there. And then then that is
there's that old wow. Should I carry a forty four
magnum like Clinteewood or should I carry a nine milimeter.
It's all about shot placement. It doesn't matter if you
(12:26):
miss with a forty five ACP that's not as good
as a hit with a twenty two.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Well, there it is. And I mean, I think this
is just an opportunity for a lot of people to
do some reassessment. We'll talk about that on the back end. Wait,
I want to thank you for your efforts here and
just send people to Wane Black dot com if you
want to find out more about what you're doing. And
by the way, thank you for all the help you
give to school security teams. That is so important.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Ye're very welcome. Thank you sir.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
All right, you take care, all right. Question on the
floor number here is eight six y six Talk Gun
or Tom Talkgun. Have you considered maybe making a change
in your gear in your everyday carry? If you haven't,
I have some suggestions. I'll bring those up on the backside.
I'll see you then.
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Speaker 10 (15:27):
Gun Talk hits thirty years.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
What does gun talk meant to you?
Speaker 10 (15:30):
Record a short message to Tom on your phone, include
your name and where you live and brief congratulations message
and email it to Tom at gun talk dot com.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
So what are you going to be working on in
this year? Are you working on becoming a better shot,
a better shooter, working on your defensive skills, working on
your we call it ed see everyday carry the gun
you carry or if you're not carrying a gun at all?
(16:08):
We ought to have that conversation, I think, I mean really,
if you aren't joining me, it's pretty easy. You give
me a call at tom Talk gun So question on
the floor. Do you carry a gun? If you don't
tell me why? And I get it. If you say, okay,
(16:28):
well I can't carry it work okay, not a great situation.
But do you carry to and from work? Do you
have a lock box in your car? Because look, if
you got to leave a gun in your car, can
I suggest you really do need a lock box of
some sort in there. The number one reason that people
(16:51):
break into cars to steal stuff is to steal guns,
and they get a lot of guns that way. You
don't want them to get yours. For a number of reasons,
you don't want to lose your gun. You also don't
want to contribute to a bad guy. Having your gun
seems fair. So do you carry all the time?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know people say we can't carry
all the time to get carried on an airline. Yeah,
I get that. Okay, Well, when we say all the time,
it means everywhere we can as much as we can,
making a lifestyle commitment. And now this is yet another
the latest reminder that maybe you're going to need to
(17:28):
make a shot that's a little longer than the typical.
People say, oh, the average gunfights three to five feet. Yeah,
that's utterly meaningless. It may not be true anymore. I
think those stats come from forty years ago. Fifty years ago.
I think when we think about a situation like this,
(17:48):
and you heard me say it here, before. And I
know people wonder this, what are you talking about? Why
would you even think about making a shot of twenty
five yards seventy five feet or your handgun? And then
people say, well, how could you possibly defend that in court?
To that self defense? That's not gonna be a problem.
Guy shooting up a school bus, I'm gonna put shots
(18:11):
on him from however far away I am. I'm perfectly
okay defending that in court. A guy is shooting a
whole bunch of people, I got a chance to put
shots on him. I don't have a problem with that. Well,
how often does that happen? More often than you think?
Two cases in point all right, we've had Andy Brown
(18:33):
on the show here before. Andy Brown back in nineteen
ninety four, and he wrote a book about it which
I highly recommend. He was a police officer at the
fair Child Air Force Base. In his book, Warnings Unheeded,
he talks about this a guy that they knew was
a problem and the Air Force wouldn't do anything about it,
(18:55):
and everybody predicted this guy was going to end up
shooting up people, and he did. He goes to the
hospital to kill the who had tried to help him.
Andy jumps on his bicycle, not making this up, jumps
on his bicycle and bicycles to the scene at the
crime where the mass shooting is taking place. And this
guy's got a rifle. Here's what Andy did before he
(19:15):
jumps on that bicycle. Months before, maybe a year or
two orfore, the Air Force had him carrying a Beretta
ninety two Model nine nine. But the Air Force wouldn't
let him take it home and wouldn't let him train
with it, and they had virtually no training for him.
Andy got serious about this, so he bought a Taurus,
(19:38):
less expensive version of the same pistol, and he bought
his own AMMO, and he shot all the time, and
shot a lot because he said he was going to
make sure that he was good enough to take care
of the threat. When the threat showed up, Andy pedals
over there, gets off of his bicycle. This guy is
shooting people. He's now outside. He was in the hospital,
(19:59):
now he's outside. And his first shots were from more
than seventy yards away with this bread of nine millimeter,
and he fired four shots. He hit this guy at
least twice from seventy yards away, stopping the murders He
(20:22):
was able to do that because he was serious about
this and he had spent the money, made the commitment,
done the training, done the practice, bought the AMMO, and
decided that he was going to be the guy who
could stop this. The reality is that's not for everybody.
(20:43):
Most people are not going to do that. Even most
people who carry guns are not going to do that.
I don't care about most people. I care about me.
I can care about my family. You should care about
you and your family. That's the deal. And then the question,
you know, people say, well I would do anything for
my family. Really, you're not showing that you're carrying a
(21:06):
thirty eight snubby and you haven't been to the range
this year, and you've never taken a defensive shooting class
in your life. And yet you're the guy that's going
to proclaim, well, I don't do anything for my family.
I don't think so your actions belie your words if
you want spend the money to take a class, and look,
(21:29):
let's get this straight again one more time. Going to
the range and shooting is not training. Going to the
range and shooting is practice. Training is a class with
an instructor where you learn new things and then you
take those new things you learn and you practice. You
need both of those. You need training that is with instructor,
(21:52):
and you need practice at the range. If you won't
do that, please don't tell me that you do anything
for your family, because I don't believe it anymore. So
the question is what are you committed to do? What
are you willing to do in twenty twenty five to
give you and your family the best chance of surviving?
(22:23):
All Right, we'll have with you here. Tom Gresham our
number eight sixty six, Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun.
Kevin called in out of Arkansas. He'th on line too.
Hey Kevin, thanks for holding I know you you got
to run off to some place, so I appreciate your time.
How can we help you?
Speaker 5 (22:37):
Yeah, no worries. And Tom, I really just came across
your show. Thank you for being there. It's a good,
good show, So thank you.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
You had originally brought up the topic of the Vegas
drive driving.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Incident and in New Orleans, New Orleans, I thank you.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
I'm sorry Orleans, yes man that there was only talk
about the background down range not being clear. I don't
know how that would have worked out too well for
many people and then maybe a one percent shot is
hitting the tire or the head, and then you're you're
put your down.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Range is all.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
It's dangerous.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You're full of people. I mean it's Bourbon Street and
it's full of people, and they are running and screaming,
and they're moving all over the place, and your point
is really well taken. How do you How do you
take a shot and not in danger innocent bystanders? Really,
I think I got some thoughts on I mean, one
(23:43):
is that you train for it. And people said, how
would you train for that? Well, you go to a
place where you can move and shoot and move between targets,
and you've got a whole bunch of targets up and
most of them are no shoots, and you've got to
get to the bad guy and puts shots on him
while you're moving around the shoots and paying attention to them. Well,
they won't let me do that at my indoor range. Yeah,
(24:05):
I know, I know. That's why I don't like indoor ranges.
I want to go someplace where I can move and
shoot and get behind cover and work and shoot from
the ground and shoot from a knee and shoot from
behind a car and lay down on the ground and
shoot underneath a car, like there's somebody on the other
side of the car. I need to put some shots
into his ankle, and then when he gets the ground,
I put some more shots into him. People go, what
(24:26):
are you talking about? I said, Well, that's called commitment.
Now let's go back to your thought here. All right,
you and I are on Bourbon Street. This guy comes
wheeling by. If I hear the car coming far enough out,
which is maybe not likely, I don't know, maybe I
can go plaster my back against the wall and maybe
(24:46):
I can get my gun out and maybe I can
put a shot into his head as he goes by
through the side mirror side window. It's if he But
once the guy crashes, here's what you know. Now he's
getting out of the car and he's got a gun
and he's starting to shoot people. That's when the police
officers started putting shots on him. And that's where you
(25:08):
or I could do the exact same thing. And you know,
one of the skills to work on is people say, well,
why would you ever want to train to move forward
in a defensive situation. Well, this might be a perfect
example of that. You've got to move through all these
people who are running to get close enough to put
an obstructed shot on this guy.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Right right, right.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
But you know, I'm glad you're you're asking the question
because we all should be thinking what would I do
in that? What are the issues? Well, you bring up
I think one of the big issues. You got people everywhere.
You can't be spraying shots. You got to put them
on target.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Right.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
Hey, you brought up another point that I really liked,
and that was kind of the psychological preparation of you know,
going in your couch in your living room, about the
different scenarios so that you can come in because you
sire psychologically. I just wish the military would do some
psychological kevlar as I call it, to ward off PTSD
(26:10):
to get these guys prepped for when they're going to
have to you know, spray and get into all the
horror of it. That there are prepped and not just
that they're psychologically prepared, I.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Think, but it's well, you know, you know the drill.
It takes time, it takes money, I mean, and that's
that's really what that's why the police officers don't get
that kind of training and they get the horrible PTSD
from shooting. So typically speaking statistically, a police officer who
gets into a lethal force situation and uses this here's
(26:43):
her gun ends up losing his job or quitting, losing
the marriage, maybe losing the house. I mean, just the
aftermath is horrendous on these and I think they're waking
up to that and now they have programs for the
after the fact. Maybe not. I don't know what the
(27:04):
situation is with the military, but it's a good point.
But let me let's just touch before I let you
go here. This idea of thinking ahead on what you're
going to do. Part of that is a lot of
that is training. I mean training me and going to
gunfighting schools, not just shooting schools, but gunfighting schools. But
the other they're sitting there in the big ezy chair,
and here's my thought. I think you have to find
(27:26):
out where's my go button and you have to be
able to hit the go button and know what that means.
The go button doesn't mean now I'm going to figure
out what's going on. You need to be doing that
all the time and being aware the go button means
I'm going for my gun and I'm going to shoot
this sov right now. I'm not waiting any more time.
The go button is I'm going to hit the mean gene.
(27:47):
I'm going to be the meanest SOB on the planet
at this time, and we're going to put a stop
to this nonsense, right freaking now.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Right.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
But I think taking a step further, is there a
Christian guys out there that are going to pay hell
psychologically with themselves in a shooting justified or not. But
if they go prepare and have that conversation with themselves
in the armchair as you suggest, it kind of goes
through the scenario, they're going to be better prepared with
(28:16):
you have for the aftermath if they've actually thought things
through beforehand.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I think you're exactly right. I think you have set
yourself up to okay. I sometimes you have to do
really bad things to save good people, and that's a shame,
but you're going to have to find a way to
live with that. And shooting someone is generally speaking thought
to be a bad thing, except that when you're saving lives,
it's a good thing. But you got to find a
(28:42):
way to wrap your head around it. Look, I appreciate
the calls, heart, thank thank you for your time. My
number here eight six six talk gun or Tom Talk gun.
It's not an easy subject and it shouldn't be approached
in a cavalier manner. But that doesn't mean we're not
strong enough to have this conversation and you're not strong
enough to incorporate it into who you are. And that's
(29:05):
I guess The real question is you head into the
new year, you got to figure out who you are,
how you're going to respond to something like this, and
how you're going to prepare for something like this. Be
right back.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
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Speaker 2 (31:41):
I'm Tom Gresham. This is gun Talking. These are some
of the things we talk about, and of course we'll
talk about cool guns. We have some conversation about that,
about new mo coming out, new cartridges coming out, a
lot of interesting things happening. We're what two weeks, three
weeks away from shot Show, the big trade show in
Las Vegas, where a lot of new products in a
lot of are coming out this week. Next week, we'll
(32:03):
have some that we can announce next week. Even when
other people are leaking the information. We don't do that.
When we give a company our word that we're not
going to leak this information ahead of their official release state,
we don't do it even when the information is already
out there and people are talking about it. Why would
we hold on to that. Well, it's kind of simple
(32:24):
because we gave our word, simple as that. All right,
number here is eight sixty six Talk Gun. Jim called
in out of Oregon. Jim, you're on gun Talk.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Go ahead, any Tom, how you doing today?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
I am? Well? What's your thought on this?
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Good? I talked to you several times before. I hope
you had a wonderful Christmas and everything. Anyway, I called
a couple of things. That the thing in New Orleans,
it seems to me as I saw a caption on
TV where they were they were showing them trying to
put some kind of barrier. Well they just take the
(33:01):
dog gun, swat trucks and put them across the road.
Make it simple.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
You can just you know what, you can park dump
trucks across the road and now you have a very
effective barrier there.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
You go dump drunk, whatever it.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Takes, and then that's available. Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
Yeah, And it was something to be simple in you'll
take five minutes. The second thing was that my carry
gun is the G twenty five, the yeah, the one,
the one you had a.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Well we created. Yeah, that is a great pistol. It is,
I mean the ten milimeters a great round and that
pistol the way it came together with Ruger and the
custom shop is just an incredible shooter. That thing just
everybody who shoots and shoots lights out with it. Do
you get to shoot it much?
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Well, yeah, I'm shoting quite a bit. I don't I
don't get out a whole lot like that was at
the beginning because I'd come down with heart failure and
I'm not able to get around as much as I
was before. But yeah, that's my carre gun and I
really love it.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Nothing wrong with that in nineteen eleven and ten milimeters
with a really good trigger and really good sites, and
we spec out on that, so well, congratulations, I'm glad
you got one of those, because those sold out and
a lot of people were looking for them after we
finished the deal on our that was to celebrate our
twenty fifth anniversary of Gun Talk and guess what this year? Actually,
in two months we hit thirty years on the air,
(34:39):
and yeah, we're gonna do a GT thirty and maybe
a GT thirty Dash one or DASH two. I don't know.
I know we got a couple coming. I don't know
what else we're going to do because you haven't thought
of it yet. And frankly, we may go to shots
Show and find something very cool then go, yeah, we
could do our own version of that and we'll come
(35:00):
up with something there. Who knows it's it's not serious.
You understand that we do put out some really good
guns for these Gun Talk guns, and we work with
these companies and they go, wow, that's a cool idea.
And sometimes they say yeah, but it'll be two years
be where we can do that. Well that's okay, maybe
we can work on something in two years. But some
(35:21):
of them go, yeah, you know, the timing is right
and this is going to work for us right now.
And actually, frankly, that's the case for the first two
for this year, which we should be able to announce
those at Shots show. So working on that as we
go forward. The idea of moving from a smaller gun
(35:43):
to a larger gun, what's that all about? Got a
lot of people are we considering their everyday carry gun. Frankly,
you can shoot bigger guns better. We know this right.
Little guns are fun to carry, easier to carry, but
big guns are easier to shoot. Like Clint Smith's famous line,
(36:03):
he says, you know your self defense, a gun is
not supposed to be comfortable. It's supposed to be comforting.
There's a difference. Oh, speaking of Clint Smith. At Thunder Ranch,
we're watching that series The Lioness, the Taylor Sheridan series.
In one of the very last episodes in the middle
of it, you've got these guys with special operators and
(36:25):
they're whopping up on somebody. They say, you know, you
take one pistol class at thunder Ranch and you think
you're an operator. And my wife and I just both
broke up laughing because both of us have trained at
thunder Ranch with Clint, so that was pretty funny. And
it's true. Yeah, one class there's not going to make
you an operator. Frankly, none of it's going to make
you an operator, but it does make you better and
(36:48):
it generally changes your mindset the way you think about things,
particularly a class at thunder Ranch or gun sight what
we do at range rated studios. At our classes, we
teach you to shoot, but it's not gunfighting.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
We'll teach you shoot fast and accurately, and those are
key points. But there's more to it than that. Along
those lines, you know, we talk about dry firing and
the value of dry firing, and I think there is
some value there, but I don't think it's as much
as people think. And yes, if you're wanting to just
put shots on target and shoot slow and learn how
(37:23):
to shoot, fine, But if you want to learn to
shoot defensively and you want to put multiple shots on target, quickly.
A key part of that is learning to shoot through recoil,
how to manage recoil and what does that take? And
I don't think you can do that With dry firing.
(37:43):
You can actually improve your draw speed, you certainly can
do that, But in terms of making accurate shots quickly,
I think you have to I think it's open for discussion.
I think you have to shoot live fire. I think
you have to learn how to control recoil. How do
you control recoil well most of its grip? How do
(38:07):
you hold your gun? Where do you have your hens?
How hard are you holding your gun? How hard are
you gripping it? And then comes trigger manipulation. We are
actually doing the reset of the trigger during recoil, so
that when you come back out of recoil and the
sites hit the target, you've already done the complete take
(38:28):
up to the last bit of pressure on the trigger.
And that's happening during the recoil, so that you're ready
to shoot again. Doesn't mean you're going to have to shoot,
but you're ready to shoot again that second, third, fourth time.
How many shots is are going to take to stop
the threat? Nobody knows you shoot until the threat is over.
(38:51):
Maybe it's one, maybe it's twelve shots. I don't know,
and you don't know, so we better train appropriately be
right back. I think what happens if you don't have
the Bill of rights. Take a look at England. Right
(39:13):
now in Britain, people are being arrested for posting things
on Facebook that caused other people to be anxious. I
am not making this up. So cherish that First Amendment
and the Second Amendment. We will talk about that in
just a bit, but right now I want to get
Tim on here from Carson City, Nevada. Tim, you got
(39:34):
some thoughts with your background. I guess in the Air Force, right, yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (39:39):
Yep, I was in the at the sixtieth Security Police
Squadron here at Travis just in Turfield, California. And the
thing is, I was just thinking of it. You really
struck a nerve with me when he brought that up
about you know, the service guys who are in the service.
Because I had to keep my weapons, any private weapon
(40:03):
at the armory. I didn't have access to the ranges,
you know, so I couldn't. You'd have to go off
base to go practice. I mean he got plenty of room,
you know, to do that, and I think that that
might be something that there's a whole crew, new crew
congressman in there who were coming in and that might
(40:24):
be a good bill to consider. I don't know what
the policy is now, that's what it was when I
was in. But to be able to offer access and
availability of the ranges right there for Pete's.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Sake, sure, No, it makes all the sense in the world.
Are you familiar with Andy Brown's story when he was
working as a I guess the police officer or a
military police for the Air Force where you had that
active shooter.
Speaker 15 (40:55):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
If you can get a copy yet, but I would
I sure recommend because it would ring true to you.
The name of the book is Warnings Unheeded, and Andy
was a gun guy, and he ended up buying his
own gun to do his own training with his own AMMO,
and because of that, he was good enough to make
a seventy yard shot with his nine to stop this
(41:17):
guy who had a rifle and was killing people. And
I think you're gonna read this and go, oh, yeah,
that makes perfect sense. I've seen the exact same thing
in my service there. Hey, Tim, I appreciate your call sir,
it's I don't understand the whole deal of military basis.
So when they say you can't have your own gun
on base, yeah, I know, people say, well, yoh, they're
(41:38):
eighteen nineteen year olds. Yeah, but they're being trusted to
handle full auto or bazookahs or tanks. So you're telling
me they're not responsible enough to have their own firearms
for their own protection on base. So we just got
a call for same old deal. Don't try to protect
(42:00):
yourself or your family. You just pick up the phone
and call and somebody else will bring a gun. Because
I mean, that's really what it amounts to. It's like
people say, guns aren't the answer. Really, what are you
going to do if something happens, I'm gonna call the police.
Where are you gonna call them? Because they're going to
bring a gun. I thought you just that guns weren't
the answer. It's like that book that is so good.
(42:23):
It says, you know, violence is rarely the answer, but
when it is, it's the only answer. I'm looking at
a story out of Indianapolis just had a couple of
guys killed knife to death. Here's the deal. When somebody
pulls out a knife it's go. Time you hit that
go button. You pull your gun to shoot them until
(42:44):
they stop right away, drop the knife, whatever, fall down.
A knife will kill you so fast you can't believe it,
especially in the hands of somebody that knows what they're doing.
You need to have made that decision, not when it happens.
You need to make that decision today, if this happens,
or rather when this happens, I will do this now.
(43:08):
You already eliminated that decision. Time you made your decision.
You see the visual stimulus. Knife comes out, gun comes out.
Bag bag ba ba ba ba ba ba bank bank, bank,
however long it takes with this threat to not be
there anymore, Like when we come back, I want to
talk about some defensive ambo that you may not have
thought of. What if the guy's hiding behind a car,
do you have something that can get to him through
(43:30):
a car?
Speaker 5 (43:31):
What?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, wait for this, This is pretty interesting stuff.
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