In This Hour:
-- Ron Duplessis from Carbonsix and McGowen barrels reveals new technology for increasing accuracy.
-- How to ignore the noise and choose the right carry gun.
-- Is it legal to build your own gun without a serial number?
Gun Talk 08.18.24 Hour One
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Ron Duplessis from Carbonsix and McGowen barrels reveals new technology for increasing accuracy.
-- How to ignore the noise and choose the right carry gun.
-- Is it legal to build your own gun without a serial number?
Gun Talk 08.18.24 Hour One
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
Block and load, Baby, It is time for Gun Talk.
Good afternoon, and glad that you could be with us today.
I'm Tom Gresham, I am your host, and we're going
to be talking about guns for the next several hours. Well,
guns and shooting and competition and hunting and different kinds
of rifles and pistols and shotguns and AMMO and reloading
and all the aspects that have to do with the legal, lawful,
(00:36):
responsible use of firearms, primarily in America. You know, if
you want to be a part of this, it's pretty
easy to give me a call. Eight sixty six Talk Gun.
We'll go pretty much anywhere you want to go, as
long as it has to do with using guns safely
and responsible.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
And of course we're going.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
To have to talk about politics, because you really can't
separate the two these days. You got guns, you got
gun control, you got the gun ban industry out there,
gun banned lobby, So we'll be talking about what they
are up to. Yeah, we'll have to touch on the
presidential election, because we've got basically gun banners on one
side and not gun banners on the other. I mean,
it's a pretty simple binary choice when you get right
(01:14):
down to it.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
But first I.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Want to talk a little bit about some of the
cool stuff that has to do with shooting and accuracy
and rifles. And I like rifles. I like accurate rifles.
And you can't really talk about rifles and accuracy without
talking about barrels. And join me right now to talk
about that is Ron Duplessis from Carbon six and McGowan Barrels.
(01:38):
And Ron, I got to ask your first question is
how does a guy who's in the car business and
owns dealerships end up being a super gun guy and
making some of the coolest barrels out there.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Quite story on Tom I, as you know, I was
a car Dealrian Baton Rouge for got thirty five years
and had three root tops eleven lines. Always had a
passion for shooting, and when I got back from college
I can no longer play tennis.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
I was pretty beat up.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
So I took up shotgun shooting and did real well
in the clays world and kind of climbed the ranks
with some great guys and really enjoyed that. I ended
up buying the local gun club from the gentleman who
was about to retire, and he went to see it
continue on. Did a great job, and we came up
with a place called Hunter's Run, and we grew it
(02:29):
from about seventy five members to about seven hundred through
a lot of events and a lot of a lot
of targets, probably three million a year. So as that goes,
I got a call through the network that I had
developed over the years about a gun company that possibly
was for sale up in Kallispell, Montana.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
So we flew up and took a look at it.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
And I was always a tinker and a builder of
rifles and remodeling old military sporters, looked at it, you know,
we decided that wasn't going to be a go for us.
So we started up just a green field, fresh start,
and I bought the assets from Harry McGowan who had
been retired in Saint Anne, Illinois, and bought his drills
(03:16):
and his dreamers and so forth, a couple of mills,
and we started making barrels.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And let me jump in because McGowan, for those who've
been around the rifle world a long time, they know
McGowan barrels. I mean, this is like an old time
you know guy that people knew these are really good barrels.
But back in is it fair to say there was
a period of time when barrel making, particularly making accurate barrels,
was almost like a black art, and they had kind
(03:40):
of a mystic view around it, and people talked about, well,
I don't know how people do that, but we moved
into a different area era and that kind of gives
you that springboard from Bio McGowan to where you are now.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Absolutely, you know, there was only a couple around. There
was Shaw, which was back in the day. I think
star In, Douglas and McGowan were the big three, right.
Harry was a barrel maker made barrels here in the
United States on Pratt and Whitney type equipment, the drills
and the rumers. So when after the war World War two,
(04:17):
Harry went to work for a machining company and fabrication
company and ended up buying a number of Pratt and
Whitney drills and reamers and started making barrels himself.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
He started in nineteen fifty.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Five, and I believe we bought him Mountain about right
about two thousand and three.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Okay, well if you would fast trackers to today, because
you and I were talking about this earlier, and there
is I mean, basically for.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
People to understand.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
People probably know you got button rifling and you got
cut rifling, two different ways of putting rifling in a barrel,
but each of them has its benefits and its drawbacks.
And you have moved into an area that I have
never even heard of em. I've heard of EDM. Why
are EDM ever heard of EM? What's that?
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Esium is electrochemical machining.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
And this is like McGowan is like the right brothers
in right now, we're like.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
The Space Shuttle.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
It is a totally different concept of how to do this.
And we may cut rifle barrels as well as button
rifle barrels. And the downside to cut is two things.
Number One, it takes a very long time to put
the rifling into the barrel. It's about a minute an inch,
So you have a twenty four inch barrel, around twenty
(05:35):
to twenty four minutes to actually put the rifling alone.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
In that barrel.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
So it's a very long process, and it doesn't lend
itself to mass manufacturing. And guys like John Kreeger, who's
done it for years, knows how to do it and
does it really quite well. But it's a very slow process.
But when the barrel comes out, it's finished. The downside
is you can't see inside the barrel obviously while it's
being machined. And as the cutter, the cutter can drift,
(06:03):
it can be loose in the box, it can not
cut a straight groove. There's a number of downsides to it.
And button rifling. It impresses the rifling into the barrel
and it kind of smears the metal a little bit,
which takes out some of the inclusions. And it really
makes a nice barrel. It takes about one minute to
(06:24):
do a twenty four inch barrel. The only problem is
it stresses the barrel, so then you have to stress
relieve it in an oven and you have the bore swells.
You bake it at about eleven hundred and fifty degrees
or whatever your recipe is, ten or fifteen minutes, and
you have a ramp up time and a ramp down time,
and then you have to lap it. And if you
(06:46):
don't lap it, you end up with an inferior barrel.
And that's one of the things that McGowan I think
we're known for is a very very finely finished barrel.
When it comes out of the lapping stage, it looks
like or a gal a limestone gravel road has about
that color of that texture, and when you're finished with it,
(07:07):
it looks like a stainless steel countertop, but it is
pinned in.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
We range rodom to perfection, and that's one.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Of the secrets that McGowan I think has achieved in
the last twenty years is the perfection of that bore
and the super accuracy we get. We at carbon six,
we guarantee half a minute of accuracy and oftentimes we
shooting the ones in the two.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Okay, and you're making good barrels. But with both systems
it takes a while to finish the barrel.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
So what does ESTM give you.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
ECM is a totally revolutionary concept, not new, only new
to the rifle barrel business.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
They've used it for a number of.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Years in pistol barrels because there the bore is large
and it's short, and they could see and they could
predict pretty well what was to take place inside the
barrel with this new electoral chemical. So just like wireedium,
it is it operates in a wet environment of water
tank that's conditioned kind of like an aquarium, keeping the
(08:12):
pH levels correct, that sort of thing. And instead of
what people would know is the wire edim concept, it
uses a cathode which is really almost no different than
a monolithic bullet today, whipped, the groove rate put in
(08:32):
and the healings calculated correctly, and it's essentially put on
a rod that is driven down through the bore and
it electrically cuts away the material and it creates the
perfect bore exactly like you would have in wire edim,
(08:52):
which I think everybody would say is probably the best finished,
the most consistent.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well, you know what you're talking about is you're pushing
a slug I can say, like a monolothic bullet that's
the reverse image of the rifling, and as it goes
through this already board barrel that it is eating away
the rifling and by the time you push it through,
you got this. And the key here, I think is
that you got this perfectly clean barrel that's really crisp
(09:20):
rifling that you don't have to do anything else too.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Is that is that where I.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Am you are And the only downside to it it
leads a little bit of what I had talked about earlier,
scale and a little discoloration, and you want to make
sure that the edges and you clean up any debris
that might be there. So you put about twenty thirty
laughs in it, okay, and then you observe it, we
know with the bar scope, and you may want to
(09:44):
put another twenty thirty and that brings the shine up,
it cleans up the edges of the rifling. But what
the I think the essence that we're so excited about.
It's the only time that you can guarantee yourself was
coming out of the board. You can't do that with
cut rifling, and you certainly can't do that with button rifling.
It's a totally predictable controlling concept where we can put
(10:08):
the choke in at the end of the barrel, which
is really not much. Maybe it's a ten thousands or
maybe a few ten thousands, but that's what you want
to do in order to get that bullet to exit
so cleanly. Is you want to spin it very tightly
at the end, and it's just like a shotgun choke.
(10:29):
You want it a little more tight at the at
the muzzle than you do at the breach. We also
can can relieve the breach, which would give longer life
to the barrels, especially with these new super high cartridges,
and we've seen them burn out in five hundred rounds,
so that's the relief and the benefit to this rifling.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
You've been at this a long time. Are we at
a new place because we have a lot of shooters.
It used to be the old days all of the
bench resshooters were super accurate in terms of what they're
looking for, and now we've got a whole lot of
different competition games out there and people shooting long range
and developing really interesting and super great rifles. Are we
at a different place now in terms of what the
(11:10):
consumer wants and what you're able to deliver in terms
of barrels?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
You know we are?
Speaker 4 (11:15):
And basically when I got into the game, we had
six or seven cartridges and the calibers were pretty well defined.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
Now it's all all over the board.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
And people were coming up with so many different dimensions, wildcats,
different cartridges, new patterns on the market. These these new
monolithics and combinations as such, which has a very long, slender,
sleek design.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
The o jive is in a different place.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
They are demanding that the barrels be able to perform
not only with maybe a little bit of extended throat.
They're looking at barrel life and they're looking at accuracy.
And that's the thing that in the past, Tom you know,
you know, the end of the day, if somebody harvested
a deer at four hundred.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
Yards, people were wowed.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Right now today you can do that so simply with
great optics and a apple on your cell phone, you
can calculate it and.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
It's very consistent. But your barrel is the key.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Obviously, there's some stuff that I think affects accuracy and
long range with the action and the stock, but the
barrel is where the rubber meets the road.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
You don't have total accuracy.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
If you don't have a good barrel, you cannot shoot accurately.
Really is as simple as that. And in the minute
or so I got left here just for people to
understand barrels. I've told people this over and over. People say, well,
you know you could shoot you barrel. I said, look,
barrels are consumables like the tires on your car, and
people are kind of getting into that mindset now of
I can change barrels or I can run through and
try something different. All right, people want to know more
(12:50):
about this carbon six and the gallon barrels. Of course,
you're got your websites. You're also all over the internet.
Anywhere you go on social media, you guys are there
and tell you what Ron, let's pick look us up
again a little bit later. There's a whole lot more
than we can cover in the time we have here.
I really appreciate your time, and it's very exciting what
you're doing these days.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Yes, it is. I'm glad to be a part of
your show. Tom, Thanks so very much.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Thank you, Ron, appreciate that. All right.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Eight sixty six Talk Gun. I'm Tom Gresham. This is
Gun Talk.
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Speaker 3 (15:27):
All right, welcome back. I am Tom Gresha.
Speaker 8 (15:30):
Man.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
You're on gun Talk right here, because we're gonna be
talking about guns for quite a while. If you want
to join us again, the number is eight six six
Talk Gun.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Who can remember that?
Speaker 5 (15:38):
Not me?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Try it this way, Tom, talk gun. Now we can
remember that one. Give me a call right now, and
we're open to your range reports. Anything you've been shooting,
anything that's happened out at the range, something that's fun, interesting,
or maybe even one of those oh wow, did you
see that kind of a thing, because yeah, especially when
you go to public ranges, you got to watch everybody
(16:01):
around you, watch those muscles, you know, just be safe
out there.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
We have a lot of things to.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Talk about today, some things in the court, some things
that are going on in politics. I am going to
weigh in on something where I think, yes, there actually
is close to the right carry gun and people say,
well it all depends well, yet everything always depends. But
(16:30):
I am of the opinion and we're going to work
on this for quite a while today, that we tend
to worry, and I've talked about this before. We all
tend to worry about the wrong things in everything in life.
We're always worrying about the wrong things. And sometimes it
takes a shakeup for us to focus and think about
the right things. Or maybe somebody just says, hey, hey,
(16:53):
stupid talking to myself here. Why are you doing that?
Why are you focusing on X? Why are you thinking
that high capacity is important? Why are you getting ADYBD guns?
Why are you focusing so much on your speed of
(17:13):
your draw? Are those things that you need to be
working on?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Really?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I We'll talk about those individually as we go along.
I do want to mention this one was weird out
of Texas. Of all places, the Texas State Fair announced
this year that they were going to put in basically
metal detectors and screening areas, and even if you have
(17:40):
a carry permit, you will not be able to carry
at the state Fair. Won't be able to carry a gun,
won't be able to carry pepper, spray knife anything. The
problem with that is that the while the State Fairy
is in fact a private business, the event is being
(18:01):
held on public land.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Believe it's a cotton boll cotton bowl.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Texas State Attorney General Kim Paxton said, wait a minute.
Texas state law says that public entities can't ban carry.
There are specific places where you cannot carry, and that's
spelled out in the law. But like the city of
(18:30):
Dallas cannot specify that you can't carry because they have
preemption in Texas. And so Ken Paxton, the Attorney General,
sent a letter to the City of Dallas, saying, I
see what you're doing, and it is illegal, and if
you don't change it, we'll see you in court. So
(18:52):
that's where it sits right now. It is another one
of those reminders for all of us that no matter
even if you get the right laws passed, there's always
somebody or some entity or some city or something out
there that wants to push back against the law, that
(19:15):
wants to restrict lawbody people from carrying guns or owning guns,
or buying guns or having guns.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
There's always somebody out there who says, you know, it
would be a good idea if fewer people had guns.
It would be a good idea if people weren't actually
carrying guns for their own protection. Because I don't carry,
and I don't feel you hear this all the time.
I don't feel the need to carry a gun or
(19:49):
the one I always liked. I can't imagine ever having
the need to carry a gun. Well, you know you
may not be able to imagine it. Two things, One
you probably need a better imagination, and number two, what
you can imagine or what you feel really has nothing
(20:10):
to do with the law or with whether I should
protect myself and my family. But the point of this
is that there's always somebody willing to strip us of
our gun rights, to stop on our Second Amendment constitutionally
guaranteed rights, and we always have to be willing and
(20:33):
able and vigilant to fight, and to fight means challenging
them in courts or sometimes challenging them in form of
you're not going to get our business, and we're going
to tell everybody we know what's going on here. That
has been very effective a number of times when some
business decided to put up a no gun sign. And
(20:57):
I've done it myself where I said, okay, that's I
get it. I see you're no gun sign, and I'm
going to make sure I tell everybody I know. I'm
not calling for you kind of boycott. I just think
it would be important to notify all my gun carrying
friends that they may not want to do business with you.
And I've had a couple of times where they said, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa,
(21:18):
whoa what We didn't really mean it that way. Really,
when you put up the sign that says no guns,
you didn't mean no guns.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Well, what they're really saying is we didn't mean it.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
If it's actually going to cost us any money. We
thought this was a freebie and we could get away
with the virtue signaling to show that we are somehow
enlightened and make the Karens go away and leave us alone.
It's the squeaky wheel concept of local politics. Those who
(21:52):
make the most noise get the most attention. We on
the gun side often have the leave us alone and
we'll leave you alone concept. We don't win with that.
We have to be loud, we have to get out there.
Will need to do more of that. I'll talk about that.
I also want to come back.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
I want to talk about Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
There really is probably the perfect carry gun. Hey, we're
back at you found Gresha up here eight six six
Talk gun or Tom Talkgun. Before I get into the calls,
I do want to mention this because this top Duff
on my email today. This is the last day as
(22:30):
of today, like August the eighteenth, for you to take
advantage of the Smith and Wesson promotion they're doing this
summer up to seventy five dollars off a number of
different handguns they have. If you go to Smith Dashwesson
dot com, you can see those and you can actually
they've got a link there you can buy them. You
click on the buy and sends you to various websites,
(22:52):
the gun broker and other places, so you can put
your order in for those and take advantage of the
seventy five dollars off. It's like up to seventy five
dollars depends on which model. Okay, and a little bit
I am going to talk about I've been rethinking what
is the right or maybe different? We have to go
what is the wrong gun for you to be carrying?
(23:13):
I have some thoughts on that. I'll help you out
with that decision. But first let's go to the phones.
Joe's with us on four out of Leamington. Is that
oh New Jersey?
Speaker 9 (23:22):
Hey, Joe, Tom Hey, I sent you an email earlier,
and I had a chance. I bought myself a new
bread of PX four Storm, which is probably a gun
most people have never.
Speaker 10 (23:33):
Heard of, right.
Speaker 9 (23:34):
It's called the most underappreciated unknown gun and the bread
of Lineup. It's a hammer fired gun. It comes in
both a full size and a compact version. It's one
of the things that makes it unique and one of
the reasons I bought it after trying it. Other than
instead of a standard blowback, where as the slide come back,
(23:57):
you know, the barrel will point up tip up in
the air, the lock up is a rotating barrel lock up.
The barrel does not tip up it and as you
pull the slide back, you'll actually see the barrel rotate
and it really has the effect of spreading out the recoil.
I've shot this gun and it's nine millimeter and I've
never had such a smooth recoil as I had with her.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
So, now, did you get the full size of the compact?
Speaker 9 (24:25):
I got the full size, and by the full size
isn't even that large. A full size would make an
excellent carry gun.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
By the way.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Well, I'm just going to say the full size. I
was just looking it up.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
It's a four inch barrel, so that's what I would
call a great length or carry gun.
Speaker 9 (24:37):
Yeah, actually the full size is absolutely a great length.
It would I think it'd be if I didn't have
my P three sixty five sig. I would actually have
it as my carry gun. And as you can see,
it's actually kind of almost got like a Walter PPK
type profile. Much bigger than a PPK, but it's kind
of got that you know, kind of slant on the
other side. It's got a rail on the bottom. It
(25:01):
shoots like a dream Ti group. And one thing I
had to adjust, and I think I mentioned this with
my sig. You know, the standard site picture on a
stick is what people call the lollipop or a pumpkin
on a stick. You put your target should be, you
put your site right under and it's just like a
six o'clock cold the BURRETTA and I read and I
actually called Bretta to confirm this with Baretta. They want
(25:23):
you to hold the white dot on the front side
should be directly where you wanted. You actually cover the
point of aim with the white dot on the front post.
So it took me a little bit of adjustment going
from a six o'clock cold to a dead on hold.
But once you do that, the gun shoots.
Speaker 10 (25:38):
Like a dream.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Okay, question for you. And I'm looking at the picture
of this now I'm not shot one. It looks kind
of space ag and cool and all that. But the
controls are a little bit different looking the d cocker
and it just looks different. Did it take you along
to get used to that where you could can make
those controls.
Speaker 9 (26:00):
For you about ninety seconds. And by the way, you
can get it with either a safety d cocker or
dcocker only. There's an F model and a G model.
The F model the thumb safety is also a dcocker.
You know where you can with the F model you
put it in a safe position and pull the trigger
to decock it. With the G model, and by the way,
(26:22):
you can buy one and you can interchange and conversion
kit for like ninety bucks, so you can if you
don't want a manual safety, you can replace that safety
with a dcocker only or order with the dcocker only,
so if you want if you don't want a safety,
you just want to decocker ordered as the G model
instead of the F model.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
That sound that sounds like you really like this pistol.
Speaker 9 (26:44):
Oh, I tell it, I love it, and again that
there's almost no muzzle rise. One of my other favorite
full sized guns is my SEG eighteen or P three twenty,
but that's got a bit of a muzzle rise. Now,
the one negative you cannot get the gun. It's not
optics ready, so you can't put an optic on top
of this gun. You can put the laser on the
(27:06):
bottom of the gun, but you can't put an optic
on the top of it.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And I'll be talking about that in a minute when
I talk about the idea. What I have come to
believe is the ideal pistol for self defense, and it's
going to drive some people crazy. But I don't think
the optics kind of important. Did I really say that
I appreciate the college Joe. Let me run down to
Larry and I lined one out of Marshall, Arkansas. That is, Hey, Larry,
(27:30):
you're on gun Talk.
Speaker 8 (27:31):
Hey, Hey Tom, how are you? I wouldn't to ask
you how you were anyway, buddy, I got a range
report from about a month ago. You were talking about
how you got your first gun. Who was influenzial in
getting you in this shooting and stuff. My grandfather bought
me what I thought was a dabb begun when I
was five years old. Mom would not let me have
it until I was seven, but I got to shoot
(27:53):
it when I went out to his plate. So anyway,
it was a neat, little use basy be begun that
came from a swap meet more than likely I had
all my life. It's a treasured little piece. I was
in Tombstone a few years back and I saw in
one of their museums a gun that had a B
begun that looked exactly like mine. I started reading it
(28:16):
was a king. It was a King manufactured be begun.
I guess kings sold out to Daisy Oh Bestiness, and
I didn't. I wasn't aware of that. I've told people
that this was a Daisy b begun all my life.
I looked up the numbers on the internet and it's
a nineteen thirty two manufactured King be begun.
Speaker 10 (28:38):
I love my most.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I had never heard of king.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I mean, I liked a lot of us grew up
on Daisy's, but I had not heard of King, and
so you're saying that Daisy probably bought King and then
incorporated that model into their line.
Speaker 8 (28:52):
Absolutely, And it is basically a r an early looking
Red Rider. The wooden stock on it has no wood
for stock whatsoever. But the wooden stock is a slab
side piece of wood, you know, just a little kind
of like the one that stamped Red Rider now in
these days, but it had a different look to it.
But anyway, very interesting. But yeah, King King BB gun
was the precursor to the Daisy So anyway, I that
(29:17):
actually stayed in my safe. One of my guns safe
stays in his gun safe because it's so near and
dear to my heart. The other gun the actual firearm
that I first shot in nineteen sixty six, that would
have made me six years old, with a three screw
ruger single six with a conversible mag twenty two. My
(29:37):
father bought that knew that year I was six years old.
I remember him sitting cross legs with me setting and
we were shooting against the bank in outside of Bakersfield, California,
where Warna raised. Anyway, that's the most valuable gun in
my safe.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Have I understood?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I understand complay doesn't matter what it call or what
you can get for selling it. It's all about the
value to you and in this thing, that gun. And look,
I appreciate the call. We talk about this all the time.
The guns hold those memories for us, and then we
could hold the gun and we're holding the memory and
we can share the memory for It's just what Larry
(30:17):
was just doing.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
All right, we'll come back. Let's we've got Craig on
hold it.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
We have room for you if you want to join us,
And I'm going to give you my thoughts on if
you got to go pick a carry gun.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
What should you be looking for?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Be right back, It's a what the heck is that
car being that turns heads and leaves you grinning? The
Ruger ELC car being in five, seven, by twenty eight
or forty five auto is whatever you want it to be.
(30:51):
Make it your range gun, your truck gun, or an
awesome home defense option. Mostly the Ruger Els car beings
just plain old shooting fun. Make sure your friends bring
their own AMMO, it's that much fun. Check it out
at Ruber dot com.
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Speaker 12 (31:42):
There's more to this world of guns than you realize.
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firearm related topics. Whether it's new guns, training tips, gunsmithing, competition, shooting,
self defense, or gun rights news, we cover it all.
(32:04):
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Speaker 13 (32:12):
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Speaker 14 (32:36):
Today, let's go straight to the phones.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Craig's with us out of Big Chamber. Montanna Hey Craig,
What did you find, Tom?
Speaker 10 (32:59):
I have a rain report for you. A couple of
years ago I picked up a Swedish M forty one B,
which was their sniper variant, and it's all original and
if I do my part, that old gun will shoot
subma all day long.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
That is one of the great sniper rifles in the
history of military.
Speaker 10 (33:24):
Oh I wasn't aware of that.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Oh yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
And as you say, those things are spooky accurate and
they're cool looking too.
Speaker 10 (33:33):
They really are, Tom, this one. I picked it up.
The receiver has a date of eighteen ninety nine on it,
and the Swedes apparently rebarreled it at some point and
I cleaned her up. And the scope mounting system is
really different. It's got a leaver and it slides on
and off. But the glasses fairly clear. But that old gun,
(33:57):
like I say, it's just amazing to me. Like I say,
it will shoot some almost half ma if I really
are down and do my part.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Does yours have the original twenty nine inch barrel?
Speaker 10 (34:12):
I believe so. I've never really measured it, but it
seems like it stretches from here to next Tuesday.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Yeah, they're long. They really are.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And like I said, they got this goofy weird scope
mounting system, but it just works. But for those who
don't know, we're basically talking about a Mauser system. It's
the sweetest mouser. But it just was fine tuned to
be one of the great sniper rifles of all time.
Speaker 10 (34:37):
Well, this is one of those I've clicked at old
World War two small arms for years and this is
one of my favorites because, like I say, I can
take it out as we speak. I'm doing some reloads
for it right now, and it is just I found
a load that it likes forty seven grains and five
(34:58):
sixty five and one hundred and forty grain bullets burgers
and watch out.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Well, congratulations, that is so much fun. You know, you
get to shoot a cool gun and you get to
be a student of history at the same time. And
that's what for a lot of folks, that's what having
the old military guns is all about, is history. Thank
you for sharing that with us, sir, Thanks for the call.
All right, let me just quickly get into this. I
was watching a video with Ken Hackethorne and Bill Wilson,
(35:28):
two guys who absolutely do know what they're talking about
when it comes to guns and shooting and handguns, and
they were talking about the seven that collect the seven
deadly sins of shooters whatever. And it was a variation
of what I've talked about for many years, which is,
I think we worry about the wrong things, we work
on the wrong things, if we work on things at all,
when it comes to trying to be better. But one
(35:50):
of the points they were making, and I was thinking
about this because I've been you know me, I tried
different guns for Carrie. I do it the wrong way.
Don't do what I do. I change holsters. I change
guns all the time because that's the nature of my business.
I mean, if you find one that works for you,
that's great. But what I have found is I ended
up gravitating back to kind of a central place. And
(36:13):
I think goes Ken Hackethorn said. Look, he says, the
glock nineteen size is probably the right size for most people.
Whether you like a glock or not. He says, look,
he shoots glocks a lot. He doesn't shoot him. Well,
he's got the same problem might do, and that is
we started with nineteen eleven, so we like that grip angle.
So the grip angle doesn't really work well for us.
(36:35):
I mean, we could shoot him. But the Glock nineteen
it's a compact, but not a super subcompact and as
good as the sig P three sixty five.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Is, and it is really good.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I am coming to the belief that the larger versions
of the P three sixty five are going to end
up being the better ones, the more popular ones.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Why is that.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
They're just easier to shoot. Small guns are harder to shoot. Well,
bigger guns are easier to shoot. And now I we
went bigger. Still there even bigger, But now you get
into that area where you go, okay, that's too big
to carry. So you get this compromise area. And why
is the Glock nineteen so good Because it's a cult
commander size pistol, and the cult Commander nineteen eleven has
(37:24):
always been the standard for carry. I mean, yeah, you
can carry a full size nineteen eleven and five inch barrel,
but a four and a quarter inch barrel to me,
seems to be that perfect compromise. Now you can say, well,
it's a three and three quarters to four a quarter, fine,
I don't care pick a four it's it doesn't matter.
But when you started getting really small. It's like this
(37:45):
week I picked up the new Smith and Western Bodyguard
two point zero three eighty teeny tiny little thing. It
is great, it's a wonderful pistol, but it is truly
a compromise. And the smaller the gun gets, the harder
they are to shoot. Well, it's just the nature the beast.
It's physics. So if you're out there looking to either
find another carry gun, or the perfect carry gun, or
(38:09):
your first carry gun, may I suggest you find something
in that mid size you know, whether it's a spring Field,
a Smith, a cig, a Tourust, they all have them.
Something with a four to four and a half inch barrel,
you know what. It can even be single stack. It's okay.
I'll talk about that in a little bit. The idea
(38:29):
that you need a bucket of bullets in your carry gun,
I like a lot of AMMO, and I can make
an argument for it. But if you press me to
be realistic about it, well we'll talk about that in
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Do you really need that?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Are we imagining things that are so unlikely as to
be off the charts? I don't know, But anyway, I'm
thinking that mid size is the right carry gun if
you have a good belt and a good holster, because
that's all part of the system. Without those, it doesn't
really work. All right, Mack with you, and we're going
(39:09):
to talk to Paul and Casper Wyoming.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Paul, you're on gun Talk.
Speaker 15 (39:13):
What you got, Yes, sir, I heard you talking. I
don't know. It's been a couple of weeks ago. Somebody
called in about having an AR and was able. I
don't know what it was, but he was able to
just change out the bolt carrier and the magazine and
shoot twenty two long rifles. Do you know anything about that?
Speaker 5 (39:34):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Sure, Yeah, there are several kits you can get where
you can do that. It's not a big deal. I mean, obviously,
assuming you've got a twenty two not both carrier, you're
gonna have to have a new upper.
Speaker 10 (39:46):
You can't just have that's a complete upper.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Okay, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta have. I mean
you gotta have.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
You can't shoot or twenty two rim fire in a
two two three chamber obviously, yeah.
Speaker 10 (39:56):
Okay.
Speaker 15 (39:57):
And one more thing, what did they ever come up
with about the eighty percent lowers?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Okay, this is a case that is headed to the
Supreme Court. They have decided to take the case right now.
My understanding, I'm not a lawyers that don't you bet
your life on me, but my understanding is that eighty
percent lowers are still legal. There's some think about selling
the jigs to make them and the eighty percent lowyers together.
(40:26):
If you go to eighty percent arms dot Com, they've
got information on that. But yes, you can get an
eighty percent lower. You finish the gun yourself, so you're
making the gun. It is your homemade gun. Understanding that
in some states they have passed laws about quote unquote
ghost guns, that is, anything that doesn't have a serial
(40:47):
number on it. I think that law is going to
get struck down in all the states because it has
always been legal to make your own guns in the US.
So the idea that you can't make your own guns
is something new, and I don't think it can hold
up to scrutiny under the Brewing decision as being part
of are qualified under the Second Amendment. So but as
of right now, you can certainly finish your guns out
(41:07):
if you get eighty percent lowers.
Speaker 15 (41:09):
Okay, all right, Yeah, I was wondering about that. I've
i was at a gun shill last week and bought
an eighty percent and I just kind of got to
thinking about it and thought I'd better talk to somebody.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yep, there you go.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Well, you know, now you've gotten the official word from
some do who probably doesn't know what he's talking about
on the radio.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
So good luck with that.
Speaker 15 (41:31):
Well that's a no decision, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
All right, thanks so much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
You know, you know about the Cardio case that was
the Supreme Court decision on bump stocks and staid atf
cannot ban bump stocks. Well, there was actually a second case,
federal case about bump stocks, and that one just got decided.
In a few minutes. We're going to be talking to
the principle in that case and see what that means.
(42:01):
We're also going to be talking about this idea of
we're always worried about the wrong thing. And Ken Hackethorne
put it really well. He says, is it probability or possibility? Yes,
it's possible. You could be facing a horde of people
and need buckets of bullets, and you know, sixteen different
(42:23):
magazines and all the rest of it. He says, But
is it probable it's a good point, and that's a
real world idea of Okay, what's the real probability. Well,
the probability is nine to nine percent sure. You're never
going to need your gun in self defense, and if
you do, you're nine to nine percent sure the incident's
(42:43):
going to be inside of ten yards. So you start
stacking those up. And the idea that you're going to
need a twenty five or fifty yard shot is so
incredibly small, has to be statistically insignificant. Doesn't mean it's
not fun to practice. And we do like the practice
things that are fun. We don't practice the things that
(43:04):
are hard, Like, oh yeah, how much time have you
spent with your weak hand shooting one handed with your weekend?
Oh well, that's hard. I'm not very good at that.
You know what, if you're not very good at it,
maybe that's the thing you ought to be working on
instead of working on the things you're already good at.
I'll know just a thought for you there. When we
(43:26):
come back. We'll also talk about a little bit more
about what is the ideal carry gun for you? Too big,
too small, or just right? Eight six six talk gun.
Get you in here. I'm Tom Gresham, and this is
gun talking.
The Ruger Sfaar is one of the Trim's three eight
modern sporting rifles, available more power but lighter in the
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
Block and load, Baby, It is time for Gun Talk.
Good afternoon, and glad that you could be with us today.
I'm Tom Gresham, I am your host, and we're going
to be talking about guns for the next several hours. Well,
guns and shooting and competition and hunting and different kinds
of rifles and pistols and shotguns and AMMO and reloading
and all the aspects that have to do with the legal, lawful,
(00:36):
responsible use of firearms, primarily in America. You know, if
you want to be a part of this, it's pretty
easy to give me a call. Eight sixty six Talk Gun.
We'll go pretty much anywhere you want to go, as
long as it has to do with using guns safely
and responsible.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
And of course we're going.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
To have to talk about politics, because you really can't
separate the two these days. You got guns, you got
gun control, you got the gun ban industry out there,
gun banned lobby, So we'll be talking about what they
are up to. Yeah, we'll have to touch on the
presidential election, because we've got basically gun banners on one
side and not gun banners on the other. I mean,
it's a pretty simple binary choice when you get right
(01:14):
down to it.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
But first I.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Want to talk a little bit about some of the
cool stuff that has to do with shooting and accuracy
and rifles. And I like rifles. I like accurate rifles.
And you can't really talk about rifles and accuracy without
talking about barrels. And join me right now to talk
about that is Ron Duplessis from Carbon six and McGowan Barrels.
(01:38):
And Ron, I got to ask your first question is
how does a guy who's in the car business and
owns dealerships end up being a super gun guy and
making some of the coolest barrels out there.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Quite story on Tom I, as you know, I was
a car Dealrian Baton Rouge for got thirty five years
and had three root tops eleven lines. Always had a
passion for shooting, and when I got back from college
I can no longer play tennis.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
I was pretty beat up.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
So I took up shotgun shooting and did real well
in the clays world and kind of climbed the ranks
with some great guys and really enjoyed that. I ended
up buying the local gun club from the gentleman who
was about to retire, and he went to see it
continue on. Did a great job, and we came up
with a place called Hunter's Run, and we grew it
(02:29):
from about seventy five members to about seven hundred through
a lot of events and a lot of a lot
of targets, probably three million a year. So as that goes,
I got a call through the network that I had
developed over the years about a gun company that possibly
was for sale up in Kallispell, Montana.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
So we flew up and took a look at it.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
And I was always a tinker and a builder of
rifles and remodeling old military sporters, looked at it, you know,
we decided that wasn't going to be a go for us.
So we started up just a green field, fresh start,
and I bought the assets from Harry McGowan who had
been retired in Saint Anne, Illinois, and bought his drills
(03:16):
and his dreamers and so forth, a couple of mills,
and we started making barrels.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And let me jump in because McGowan, for those who've
been around the rifle world a long time, they know
McGowan barrels. I mean, this is like an old time
you know guy that people knew these are really good barrels.
But back in is it fair to say there was
a period of time when barrel making, particularly making accurate barrels,
was almost like a black art, and they had kind
(03:40):
of a mystic view around it, and people talked about, well,
I don't know how people do that, but we moved
into a different area era and that kind of gives
you that springboard from Bio McGowan to where you are now.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Absolutely, you know, there was only a couple around. There
was Shaw, which was back in the day. I think
star In, Douglas and McGowan were the big three, right.
Harry was a barrel maker made barrels here in the
United States on Pratt and Whitney type equipment, the drills
and the rumers. So when after the war World War two,
(04:17):
Harry went to work for a machining company and fabrication
company and ended up buying a number of Pratt and
Whitney drills and reamers and started making barrels himself.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
He started in nineteen fifty.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Five, and I believe we bought him Mountain about right
about two thousand and three.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Okay, well if you would fast trackers to today, because
you and I were talking about this earlier, and there
is I mean, basically for.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
People to understand.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
People probably know you got button rifling and you got
cut rifling, two different ways of putting rifling in a barrel,
but each of them has its benefits and its drawbacks.
And you have moved into an area that I have
never even heard of em. I've heard of EDM. Why
are EDM ever heard of EM? What's that?
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Esium is electrochemical machining.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
And this is like McGowan is like the right brothers
in right now, we're like.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
The Space Shuttle.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
It is a totally different concept of how to do this.
And we may cut rifle barrels as well as button
rifle barrels. And the downside to cut is two things.
Number One, it takes a very long time to put
the rifling into the barrel. It's about a minute an inch,
So you have a twenty four inch barrel, around twenty
(05:35):
to twenty four minutes to actually put the rifling alone.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
In that barrel.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
So it's a very long process, and it doesn't lend
itself to mass manufacturing. And guys like John Kreeger, who's
done it for years, knows how to do it and
does it really quite well. But it's a very slow process.
But when the barrel comes out, it's finished. The downside
is you can't see inside the barrel obviously while it's
being machined. And as the cutter, the cutter can drift,
(06:03):
it can be loose in the box, it can not
cut a straight groove. There's a number of downsides to it.
And button rifling. It impresses the rifling into the barrel
and it kind of smears the metal a little bit,
which takes out some of the inclusions. And it really
makes a nice barrel. It takes about one minute to
(06:24):
do a twenty four inch barrel. The only problem is
it stresses the barrel, so then you have to stress
relieve it in an oven and you have the bore swells.
You bake it at about eleven hundred and fifty degrees
or whatever your recipe is, ten or fifteen minutes, and
you have a ramp up time and a ramp down time,
and then you have to lap it. And if you
(06:46):
don't lap it, you end up with an inferior barrel.
And that's one of the things that McGowan I think
we're known for is a very very finely finished barrel.
When it comes out of the lapping stage, it looks
like or a gal a limestone gravel road has about
that color of that texture, and when you're finished with it,
(07:07):
it looks like a stainless steel countertop, but it is
pinned in.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
We range rodom to perfection, and that's one.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Of the secrets that McGowan I think has achieved in
the last twenty years is the perfection of that bore
and the super accuracy we get. We at carbon six,
we guarantee half a minute of accuracy and oftentimes we
shooting the ones in the two.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Okay, and you're making good barrels. But with both systems
it takes a while to finish the barrel.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
So what does ESTM give you.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
ECM is a totally revolutionary concept, not new, only new
to the rifle barrel business.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
They've used it for a number of.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Years in pistol barrels because there the bore is large
and it's short, and they could see and they could
predict pretty well what was to take place inside the
barrel with this new electoral chemical. So just like wireedium,
it is it operates in a wet environment of water
tank that's conditioned kind of like an aquarium, keeping the
(08:12):
pH levels correct, that sort of thing. And instead of
what people would know is the wire edim concept, it
uses a cathode which is really almost no different than
a monolithic bullet today, whipped, the groove rate put in
(08:32):
and the healings calculated correctly, and it's essentially put on
a rod that is driven down through the bore and
it electrically cuts away the material and it creates the
perfect bore exactly like you would have in wire edim,
(08:52):
which I think everybody would say is probably the best finished,
the most consistent.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well, you know what you're talking about is you're pushing
a slug I can say, like a monolothic bullet that's
the reverse image of the rifling, and as it goes
through this already board barrel that it is eating away
the rifling and by the time you push it through,
you got this. And the key here, I think is
that you got this perfectly clean barrel that's really crisp
(09:20):
rifling that you don't have to do anything else too.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Is that is that where I.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Am you are And the only downside to it it
leads a little bit of what I had talked about earlier,
scale and a little discoloration, and you want to make
sure that the edges and you clean up any debris
that might be there. So you put about twenty thirty
laughs in it, okay, and then you observe it, we
know with the bar scope, and you may want to
(09:44):
put another twenty thirty and that brings the shine up,
it cleans up the edges of the rifling. But what
the I think the essence that we're so excited about.
It's the only time that you can guarantee yourself was
coming out of the board. You can't do that with
cut rifling, and you certainly can't do that with button rifling.
It's a totally predictable controlling concept where we can put
(10:08):
the choke in at the end of the barrel, which
is really not much. Maybe it's a ten thousands or
maybe a few ten thousands, but that's what you want
to do in order to get that bullet to exit
so cleanly. Is you want to spin it very tightly
at the end, and it's just like a shotgun choke.
(10:29):
You want it a little more tight at the at
the muzzle than you do at the breach. We also
can can relieve the breach, which would give longer life
to the barrels, especially with these new super high cartridges,
and we've seen them burn out in five hundred rounds,
so that's the relief and the benefit to this rifling.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
You've been at this a long time. Are we at
a new place because we have a lot of shooters.
It used to be the old days all of the
bench resshooters were super accurate in terms of what they're
looking for, and now we've got a whole lot of
different competition games out there and people shooting long range
and developing really interesting and super great rifles. Are we
at a different place now in terms of what the
(11:10):
consumer wants and what you're able to deliver in terms
of barrels?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
You know we are?
Speaker 4 (11:15):
And basically when I got into the game, we had
six or seven cartridges and the calibers were pretty well defined.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
Now it's all all over the board.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
And people were coming up with so many different dimensions, wildcats,
different cartridges, new patterns on the market. These these new
monolithics and combinations as such, which has a very long, slender,
sleek design.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
The o jive is in a different place.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
They are demanding that the barrels be able to perform
not only with maybe a little bit of extended throat.
They're looking at barrel life and they're looking at accuracy.
And that's the thing that in the past, Tom you know,
you know, the end of the day, if somebody harvested
a deer at four hundred.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
Yards, people were wowed.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Right now today you can do that so simply with
great optics and a apple on your cell phone, you
can calculate it and.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
It's very consistent. But your barrel is the key.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Obviously, there's some stuff that I think affects accuracy and
long range with the action and the stock, but the
barrel is where the rubber meets the road.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
You don't have total accuracy.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
If you don't have a good barrel, you cannot shoot accurately.
Really is as simple as that. And in the minute
or so I got left here just for people to
understand barrels. I've told people this over and over. People say, well,
you know you could shoot you barrel. I said, look,
barrels are consumables like the tires on your car, and
people are kind of getting into that mindset now of
I can change barrels or I can run through and
try something different. All right, people want to know more
(12:50):
about this carbon six and the gallon barrels. Of course,
you're got your websites. You're also all over the internet.
Anywhere you go on social media, you guys are there
and tell you what Ron, let's pick look us up
again a little bit later. There's a whole lot more
than we can cover in the time we have here.
I really appreciate your time, and it's very exciting what
you're doing these days.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Yes, it is. I'm glad to be a part of
your show. Tom, Thanks so very much.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Thank you, Ron, appreciate that. All right.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Eight sixty six Talk Gun. I'm Tom Gresham. This is
Gun Talk.
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Speaker 3 (15:27):
All right, welcome back. I am Tom Gresha.
Speaker 8 (15:30):
Man.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
You're on gun Talk right here, because we're gonna be
talking about guns for quite a while. If you want
to join us again, the number is eight six six
Talk Gun.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Who can remember that?
Speaker 5 (15:38):
Not me?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Try it this way, Tom, talk gun. Now we can
remember that one. Give me a call right now, and
we're open to your range reports. Anything you've been shooting,
anything that's happened out at the range, something that's fun, interesting,
or maybe even one of those oh wow, did you
see that kind of a thing, because yeah, especially when
you go to public ranges, you got to watch everybody
(16:01):
around you, watch those muscles, you know, just be safe
out there.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
We have a lot of things to.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Talk about today, some things in the court, some things
that are going on in politics. I am going to
weigh in on something where I think, yes, there actually
is close to the right carry gun and people say,
well it all depends well, yet everything always depends. But
(16:30):
I am of the opinion and we're going to work
on this for quite a while today, that we tend
to worry, and I've talked about this before. We all
tend to worry about the wrong things in everything in life.
We're always worrying about the wrong things. And sometimes it
takes a shakeup for us to focus and think about
the right things. Or maybe somebody just says, hey, hey,
(16:53):
stupid talking to myself here. Why are you doing that?
Why are you focusing on X? Why are you thinking
that high capacity is important? Why are you getting ADYBD guns?
Why are you focusing so much on your speed of
(17:13):
your draw? Are those things that you need to be
working on?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Really?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I We'll talk about those individually as we go along.
I do want to mention this one was weird out
of Texas. Of all places, the Texas State Fair announced
this year that they were going to put in basically
metal detectors and screening areas, and even if you have
(17:40):
a carry permit, you will not be able to carry
at the state Fair. Won't be able to carry a gun,
won't be able to carry pepper, spray knife anything. The
problem with that is that the while the State Fairy
is in fact a private business, the event is being
(18:01):
held on public land.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Believe it's a cotton boll cotton bowl.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Texas State Attorney General Kim Paxton said, wait a minute.
Texas state law says that public entities can't ban carry.
There are specific places where you cannot carry, and that's
spelled out in the law. But like the city of
(18:30):
Dallas cannot specify that you can't carry because they have
preemption in Texas. And so Ken Paxton, the Attorney General,
sent a letter to the City of Dallas, saying, I
see what you're doing, and it is illegal, and if
you don't change it, we'll see you in court. So
(18:52):
that's where it sits right now. It is another one
of those reminders for all of us that no matter
even if you get the right laws passed, there's always
somebody or some entity or some city or something out
there that wants to push back against the law, that
(19:15):
wants to restrict lawbody people from carrying guns or owning guns,
or buying guns or having guns.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
There's always somebody out there who says, you know, it
would be a good idea if fewer people had guns.
It would be a good idea if people weren't actually
carrying guns for their own protection. Because I don't carry,
and I don't feel you hear this all the time.
I don't feel the need to carry a gun or
(19:49):
the one I always liked. I can't imagine ever having
the need to carry a gun. Well, you know you
may not be able to imagine it. Two things, One
you probably need a better imagination, and number two, what
you can imagine or what you feel really has nothing
(20:10):
to do with the law or with whether I should
protect myself and my family. But the point of this
is that there's always somebody willing to strip us of
our gun rights, to stop on our Second Amendment constitutionally
guaranteed rights, and we always have to be willing and
(20:33):
able and vigilant to fight, and to fight means challenging
them in courts or sometimes challenging them in form of
you're not going to get our business, and we're going
to tell everybody we know what's going on here. That
has been very effective a number of times when some
business decided to put up a no gun sign. And
(20:57):
I've done it myself where I said, okay, that's I
get it. I see you're no gun sign, and I'm
going to make sure I tell everybody I know. I'm
not calling for you kind of boycott. I just think
it would be important to notify all my gun carrying
friends that they may not want to do business with you.
And I've had a couple of times where they said, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa,
(21:18):
whoa what We didn't really mean it that way. Really,
when you put up the sign that says no guns,
you didn't mean no guns.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Well, what they're really saying is we didn't mean it.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
If it's actually going to cost us any money. We
thought this was a freebie and we could get away
with the virtue signaling to show that we are somehow
enlightened and make the Karens go away and leave us alone.
It's the squeaky wheel concept of local politics. Those who
(21:52):
make the most noise get the most attention. We on
the gun side often have the leave us alone and
we'll leave you alone concept. We don't win with that.
We have to be loud, we have to get out there.
Will need to do more of that. I'll talk about that.
I also want to come back.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
I want to talk about Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
There really is probably the perfect carry gun. Hey, we're
back at you found Gresha up here eight six six
Talk gun or Tom Talkgun. Before I get into the calls,
I do want to mention this because this top Duff
on my email today. This is the last day as
(22:30):
of today, like August the eighteenth, for you to take
advantage of the Smith and Wesson promotion they're doing this
summer up to seventy five dollars off a number of
different handguns they have. If you go to Smith Dashwesson
dot com, you can see those and you can actually
they've got a link there you can buy them. You
click on the buy and sends you to various websites,
(22:52):
the gun broker and other places, so you can put
your order in for those and take advantage of the
seventy five dollars off. It's like up to seventy five
dollars depends on which model. Okay, and a little bit
I am going to talk about I've been rethinking what
is the right or maybe different? We have to go
what is the wrong gun for you to be carrying?
(23:13):
I have some thoughts on that. I'll help you out
with that decision. But first let's go to the phones.
Joe's with us on four out of Leamington. Is that
oh New Jersey?
Speaker 9 (23:22):
Hey, Joe, Tom Hey, I sent you an email earlier,
and I had a chance. I bought myself a new
bread of PX four Storm, which is probably a gun
most people have never.
Speaker 10 (23:33):
Heard of, right.
Speaker 9 (23:34):
It's called the most underappreciated unknown gun and the bread
of Lineup. It's a hammer fired gun. It comes in
both a full size and a compact version. It's one
of the things that makes it unique and one of
the reasons I bought it after trying it. Other than
instead of a standard blowback, where as the slide come back,
(23:57):
you know, the barrel will point up tip up in
the air, the lock up is a rotating barrel lock up.
The barrel does not tip up it and as you
pull the slide back, you'll actually see the barrel rotate
and it really has the effect of spreading out the recoil.
I've shot this gun and it's nine millimeter and I've
never had such a smooth recoil as I had with her.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
So, now, did you get the full size of the compact?
Speaker 9 (24:25):
I got the full size, and by the full size
isn't even that large. A full size would make an
excellent carry gun.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
By the way.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Well, I'm just going to say the full size. I
was just looking it up.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
It's a four inch barrel, so that's what I would
call a great length or carry gun.
Speaker 9 (24:37):
Yeah, actually the full size is absolutely a great length.
It would I think it'd be if I didn't have
my P three sixty five sig. I would actually have
it as my carry gun. And as you can see,
it's actually kind of almost got like a Walter PPK
type profile. Much bigger than a PPK, but it's kind
of got that you know, kind of slant on the
other side. It's got a rail on the bottom. It
(25:01):
shoots like a dream Ti group. And one thing I
had to adjust, and I think I mentioned this with
my sig. You know, the standard site picture on a
stick is what people call the lollipop or a pumpkin
on a stick. You put your target should be, you
put your site right under and it's just like a
six o'clock cold the BURRETTA and I read and I
actually called Bretta to confirm this with Baretta. They want
(25:23):
you to hold the white dot on the front side
should be directly where you wanted. You actually cover the
point of aim with the white dot on the front post.
So it took me a little bit of adjustment going
from a six o'clock cold to a dead on hold.
But once you do that, the gun shoots.
Speaker 10 (25:38):
Like a dream.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Okay, question for you. And I'm looking at the picture
of this now I'm not shot one. It looks kind
of space ag and cool and all that. But the
controls are a little bit different looking the d cocker
and it just looks different. Did it take you along
to get used to that where you could can make
those controls.
Speaker 9 (26:00):
For you about ninety seconds. And by the way, you
can get it with either a safety d cocker or
dcocker only. There's an F model and a G model.
The F model the thumb safety is also a dcocker.
You know where you can with the F model you
put it in a safe position and pull the trigger
to decock it. With the G model, and by the way,
(26:22):
you can buy one and you can interchange and conversion
kit for like ninety bucks, so you can if you
don't want a manual safety, you can replace that safety
with a dcocker only or order with the dcocker only,
so if you want if you don't want a safety,
you just want to decocker ordered as the G model
instead of the F model.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
That sound that sounds like you really like this pistol.
Speaker 9 (26:44):
Oh, I tell it, I love it, and again that
there's almost no muzzle rise. One of my other favorite
full sized guns is my SEG eighteen or P three twenty,
but that's got a bit of a muzzle rise. Now,
the one negative you cannot get the gun. It's not
optics ready, so you can't put an optic on top
of this gun. You can put the laser on the
(27:06):
bottom of the gun, but you can't put an optic
on the top of it.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And I'll be talking about that in a minute when
I talk about the idea. What I have come to
believe is the ideal pistol for self defense, and it's
going to drive some people crazy. But I don't think
the optics kind of important. Did I really say that
I appreciate the college Joe. Let me run down to
Larry and I lined one out of Marshall, Arkansas. That is, Hey, Larry,
(27:30):
you're on gun Talk.
Speaker 8 (27:31):
Hey, Hey Tom, how are you? I wouldn't to ask
you how you were anyway, buddy, I got a range
report from about a month ago. You were talking about
how you got your first gun. Who was influenzial in
getting you in this shooting and stuff. My grandfather bought
me what I thought was a dabb begun when I
was five years old. Mom would not let me have
it until I was seven, but I got to shoot
(27:53):
it when I went out to his plate. So anyway,
it was a neat, little use basy be begun that
came from a swap meet more than likely I had
all my life. It's a treasured little piece. I was
in Tombstone a few years back and I saw in
one of their museums a gun that had a B
begun that looked exactly like mine. I started reading it
(28:16):
was a king. It was a King manufactured be begun.
I guess kings sold out to Daisy Oh Bestiness, and
I didn't. I wasn't aware of that. I've told people
that this was a Daisy b begun all my life.
I looked up the numbers on the internet and it's
a nineteen thirty two manufactured King be begun.
Speaker 10 (28:38):
I love my most.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I had never heard of king.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I mean, I liked a lot of us grew up
on Daisy's, but I had not heard of King, and
so you're saying that Daisy probably bought King and then
incorporated that model into their line.
Speaker 8 (28:52):
Absolutely, And it is basically a r an early looking
Red Rider. The wooden stock on it has no wood
for stock whatsoever. But the wooden stock is a slab
side piece of wood, you know, just a little kind
of like the one that stamped Red Rider now in
these days, but it had a different look to it.
But anyway, very interesting. But yeah, King King BB gun
was the precursor to the Daisy So anyway, I that
(29:17):
actually stayed in my safe. One of my guns safe
stays in his gun safe because it's so near and
dear to my heart. The other gun the actual firearm
that I first shot in nineteen sixty six, that would
have made me six years old, with a three screw
ruger single six with a conversible mag twenty two. My
(29:37):
father bought that knew that year I was six years old.
I remember him sitting cross legs with me setting and
we were shooting against the bank in outside of Bakersfield, California,
where Warna raised. Anyway, that's the most valuable gun in
my safe.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Have I understood?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I understand complay doesn't matter what it call or what
you can get for selling it. It's all about the
value to you and in this thing, that gun. And look,
I appreciate the call. We talk about this all the time.
The guns hold those memories for us, and then we
could hold the gun and we're holding the memory and
we can share the memory for It's just what Larry
(30:17):
was just doing.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
All right, we'll come back. Let's we've got Craig on
hold it.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
We have room for you if you want to join us,
And I'm going to give you my thoughts on if
you got to go pick a carry gun.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
What should you be looking for?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Be right back, It's a what the heck is that
car being that turns heads and leaves you grinning? The
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or forty five auto is whatever you want it to be.
(30:51):
Make it your range gun, your truck gun, or an
awesome home defense option. Mostly the Ruger Els car beings
just plain old shooting fun. Make sure your friends bring
their own AMMO, it's that much fun. Check it out
at Ruber dot com.
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Speaker 14 (32:36):
Today, let's go straight to the phones.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Craig's with us out of Big Chamber. Montanna Hey Craig,
What did you find, Tom?
Speaker 10 (32:59):
I have a rain report for you. A couple of
years ago I picked up a Swedish M forty one B,
which was their sniper variant, and it's all original and
if I do my part, that old gun will shoot
subma all day long.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
That is one of the great sniper rifles in the
history of military.
Speaker 10 (33:24):
Oh I wasn't aware of that.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Oh yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
And as you say, those things are spooky accurate and
they're cool looking too.
Speaker 10 (33:33):
They really are, Tom, this one. I picked it up.
The receiver has a date of eighteen ninety nine on it,
and the Swedes apparently rebarreled it at some point and
I cleaned her up. And the scope mounting system is
really different. It's got a leaver and it slides on
and off. But the glasses fairly clear. But that old gun,
(33:57):
like I say, it's just amazing to me. Like I say,
it will shoot some almost half ma if I really
are down and do my part.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Does yours have the original twenty nine inch barrel?
Speaker 10 (34:12):
I believe so. I've never really measured it, but it
seems like it stretches from here to next Tuesday.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Yeah, they're long. They really are.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And like I said, they got this goofy weird scope
mounting system, but it just works. But for those who
don't know, we're basically talking about a Mauser system. It's
the sweetest mouser. But it just was fine tuned to
be one of the great sniper rifles of all time.
Speaker 10 (34:37):
Well, this is one of those I've clicked at old
World War two small arms for years and this is
one of my favorites because, like I say, I can
take it out as we speak. I'm doing some reloads
for it right now, and it is just I found
a load that it likes forty seven grains and five
(34:58):
sixty five and one hundred and forty grain bullets burgers
and watch out.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Well, congratulations, that is so much fun. You know, you
get to shoot a cool gun and you get to
be a student of history at the same time. And
that's what for a lot of folks, that's what having
the old military guns is all about, is history. Thank
you for sharing that with us, sir, Thanks for the call.
All right, let me just quickly get into this. I
was watching a video with Ken Hackethorne and Bill Wilson,
(35:28):
two guys who absolutely do know what they're talking about
when it comes to guns and shooting and handguns, and
they were talking about the seven that collect the seven
deadly sins of shooters whatever. And it was a variation
of what I've talked about for many years, which is,
I think we worry about the wrong things, we work
on the wrong things, if we work on things at all,
when it comes to trying to be better. But one
(35:50):
of the points they were making, and I was thinking
about this because I've been you know me, I tried
different guns for Carrie. I do it the wrong way.
Don't do what I do. I change holsters. I change
guns all the time because that's the nature of my business.
I mean, if you find one that works for you,
that's great. But what I have found is I ended
up gravitating back to kind of a central place. And
(36:13):
I think goes Ken Hackethorn said. Look, he says, the
glock nineteen size is probably the right size for most people.
Whether you like a glock or not. He says, look,
he shoots glocks a lot. He doesn't shoot him. Well,
he's got the same problem might do, and that is
we started with nineteen eleven, so we like that grip angle.
So the grip angle doesn't really work well for us.
(36:35):
I mean, we could shoot him. But the Glock nineteen
it's a compact, but not a super subcompact and as
good as the sig P three sixty five.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Is, and it is really good.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I am coming to the belief that the larger versions
of the P three sixty five are going to end
up being the better ones, the more popular ones.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Why is that.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
They're just easier to shoot. Small guns are harder to shoot. Well,
bigger guns are easier to shoot. And now I we
went bigger. Still there even bigger, But now you get
into that area where you go, okay, that's too big
to carry. So you get this compromise area. And why
is the Glock nineteen so good Because it's a cult
commander size pistol, and the cult Commander nineteen eleven has
(37:24):
always been the standard for carry. I mean, yeah, you
can carry a full size nineteen eleven and five inch barrel,
but a four and a quarter inch barrel to me,
seems to be that perfect compromise. Now you can say, well,
it's a three and three quarters to four a quarter, fine,
I don't care pick a four it's it doesn't matter.
But when you started getting really small. It's like this
(37:45):
week I picked up the new Smith and Western Bodyguard
two point zero three eighty teeny tiny little thing. It
is great, it's a wonderful pistol, but it is truly
a compromise. And the smaller the gun gets, the harder
they are to shoot. Well, it's just the nature the beast.
It's physics. So if you're out there looking to either
find another carry gun, or the perfect carry gun, or
(38:09):
your first carry gun, may I suggest you find something
in that mid size you know, whether it's a spring Field,
a Smith, a cig, a Tourust, they all have them.
Something with a four to four and a half inch barrel,
you know what. It can even be single stack. It's okay.
I'll talk about that in a little bit. The idea
(38:29):
that you need a bucket of bullets in your carry gun,
I like a lot of AMMO, and I can make
an argument for it. But if you press me to
be realistic about it, well we'll talk about that in
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Do you really need that?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Are we imagining things that are so unlikely as to
be off the charts? I don't know, But anyway, I'm
thinking that mid size is the right carry gun if
you have a good belt and a good holster, because
that's all part of the system. Without those, it doesn't
really work. All right, Mack with you, and we're going
(39:09):
to talk to Paul and Casper Wyoming.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Paul, you're on gun Talk.
Speaker 15 (39:13):
What you got, Yes, sir, I heard you talking. I
don't know. It's been a couple of weeks ago. Somebody
called in about having an AR and was able. I
don't know what it was, but he was able to
just change out the bolt carrier and the magazine and
shoot twenty two long rifles. Do you know anything about that?
Speaker 5 (39:34):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Sure, Yeah, there are several kits you can get where
you can do that. It's not a big deal. I mean, obviously,
assuming you've got a twenty two not both carrier, you're
gonna have to have a new upper.
Speaker 10 (39:46):
You can't just have that's a complete upper.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Okay, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta have. I mean
you gotta have.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
You can't shoot or twenty two rim fire in a
two two three chamber obviously, yeah.
Speaker 10 (39:56):
Okay.
Speaker 15 (39:57):
And one more thing, what did they ever come up
with about the eighty percent lowers?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Okay, this is a case that is headed to the
Supreme Court. They have decided to take the case right now.
My understanding, I'm not a lawyers that don't you bet
your life on me, but my understanding is that eighty
percent lowers are still legal. There's some think about selling
the jigs to make them and the eighty percent lowyers together.
(40:26):
If you go to eighty percent arms dot Com, they've
got information on that. But yes, you can get an
eighty percent lower. You finish the gun yourself, so you're
making the gun. It is your homemade gun. Understanding that
in some states they have passed laws about quote unquote
ghost guns, that is, anything that doesn't have a serial
(40:47):
number on it. I think that law is going to
get struck down in all the states because it has
always been legal to make your own guns in the US.
So the idea that you can't make your own guns
is something new, and I don't think it can hold
up to scrutiny under the Brewing decision as being part
of are qualified under the Second Amendment. So but as
of right now, you can certainly finish your guns out
(41:07):
if you get eighty percent lowers.
Speaker 15 (41:09):
Okay, all right, Yeah, I was wondering about that. I've
i was at a gun shill last week and bought
an eighty percent and I just kind of got to
thinking about it and thought I'd better talk to somebody.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yep, there you go.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Well, you know, now you've gotten the official word from
some do who probably doesn't know what he's talking about
on the radio.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
So good luck with that.
Speaker 15 (41:31):
Well that's a no decision, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
All right, thanks so much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
You know, you know about the Cardio case that was
the Supreme Court decision on bump stocks and staid atf
cannot ban bump stocks. Well, there was actually a second case,
federal case about bump stocks, and that one just got decided.
In a few minutes. We're going to be talking to
the principle in that case and see what that means.
(42:01):
We're also going to be talking about this idea of
we're always worried about the wrong thing. And Ken Hackethorne
put it really well. He says, is it probability or possibility? Yes,
it's possible. You could be facing a horde of people
and need buckets of bullets, and you know, sixteen different
(42:23):
magazines and all the rest of it. He says, But
is it probable it's a good point, and that's a
real world idea of Okay, what's the real probability. Well,
the probability is nine to nine percent sure. You're never
going to need your gun in self defense, and if
you do, you're nine to nine percent sure the incident's
(42:43):
going to be inside of ten yards. So you start
stacking those up. And the idea that you're going to
need a twenty five or fifty yard shot is so
incredibly small, has to be statistically insignificant. Doesn't mean it's
not fun to practice. And we do like the practice
things that are fun. We don't practice the things that
(43:04):
are hard, Like, oh yeah, how much time have you
spent with your weak hand shooting one handed with your weekend?
Oh well, that's hard. I'm not very good at that.
You know what, if you're not very good at it,
maybe that's the thing you ought to be working on
instead of working on the things you're already good at.
I'll know just a thought for you there. When we
(43:26):
come back. We'll also talk about a little bit more
about what is the ideal carry gun for you? Too big,
too small, or just right? Eight six six talk gun.
Get you in here. I'm Tom Gresham, and this is
gun talking.
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