November 2, 2025 • 43 mins
In This Hour:
-- Delta Force veteran and firearms trainer Larry Vickers explains the difference between professional gunfighters and the average person carrying a gun for defense.
-- Jalise and Justine Willams, the shooting sisters, continue to win championships around the world.
-- Your self defense gun is life-saving equipment, but you have to be competent with it. That requires training (classes) and practice.
Gun Talk 11.02.25 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Delta Force veteran and firearms trainer Larry Vickers explains the difference between professional gunfighters and the average person carrying a gun for defense.
-- Jalise and Justine Willams, the shooting sisters, continue to win championships around the world.
-- Your self defense gun is life-saving equipment, but you have to be competent with it. That requires training (classes) and practice.
Gun Talk 11.02.25 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
All right, welcome back to gun Talk, Tom Gresham. Here
we at this point we're doing this as kind of
a video and radio hybrid thing, so you'll be able
to go online and see the video of this because
trust me, it is going to be worth it. We're
joined right now by people who I have known projectally
forever for you girls, the Williams Sisters, jayly Sinjestin.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hi guys, Hi are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm good. So you were down at Range Ready Studios
and you're doing the incredible cult experience thing right.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Yes, it is an absolute blast so far.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Okay, So before I go any further, what's going on
with your outfit?
Speaker 4 (00:54):
So if we are doing this around Halloween, so the
staff decided to dress up today. I'm the Fairy. My
wishes are to make all of your shooting dreams come
true with the biby boppy bang.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Okay, so you could cure the low and left thing
for us, right, yes.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Exactly, just a little bit fairy does and you'll be
good to go.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
All right. So for people who don't know, you guys
are actually professional shooters. You've been doing this from like
age zero almost, it seems like to us. And now
you're in your armor twenties? Is that fairy? Okay? Good
deal and still tearing it up and on the cold
professional shooting team. So what are you doing it? Range? Ready?
(01:35):
What are you guys going to be having? Anybody shoot?
Speaker 5 (01:38):
We're shooting the Colts nineteen eleven optics ready gun. It's
very exciting. We have what twenty people in the class,
so we're introducing.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
The gun to them.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
We're teaching them how to shoot.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
With optics as well as fundamentals from.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
The draw tit picture and.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Just basically covering everything with this awesome new gun.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Everybody shooting, all right.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So obviously you guys get this question all the time,
so I'll throw it out there. Does anybody really shoot
a nineteen eleven anymore? Isn't that like an old fashioned gun?
Speaker 4 (02:08):
There's definitely a place for it. There's definitely people who
just can't get away from the nineteen eleven. It's definitely
a classic that everybody has learned to love over the years.
I would say like a lot of the nineteen eleven
fanatics are still all in.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
They still absolutely.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Love the nineteen elevens and they keep asking for more,
and that's exactly what cold gives.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Okay, So people always ask me, so, what is it
you like about the nineteen eleven and generating What I
do is I just hand it to them, let them
shoot it, and after about two shots with the trigger,
they go, oh, now I see what you guys are
talking about. Right, Yes, it's a.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Very crisp, clean gun.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
It's great because it's like all steel, the frame steel,
the slight steal so it's very heavy, so it helps
them sort the recoil and the triggers on nineteen elevens
are notorious for being so chriss, so clean. It's just
a great It's thinner guns so you can get your
hands around it, which is awesome because you know, her
(03:05):
and I were short people, so we have very big hands,
so we can get our hands around in nineteen eleven
just easily.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
They really fit most people really well. Most people can
shoot them well, and they're customizable. You can do different
things to them with you know drop safeties and you
know different links, triggers and different things. It's kind of
the ultimate customizable pistol. It really is.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Yeh, absolutely like the nineteen eleven and we say AR
fifteen's or one of those, like some of those guns
on the market where every company pretty much makes an
accessory for us. And that's one of the great things
about the nineteen eleven.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So people have paid money to come there and shoot
with you guys. Who else is there from cold.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
We've got the whole protein here.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
We've got Jay Lee's, myself, Wyatt Gibson, and Mark Ruddle.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
All right, so tell me what's going on with you
guys in your competition.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
World.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
We actually had two World Championships this year and it
was really exciting because there's a qualification process to get
on Team USA.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And Justine shot.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
We both shot PCC World shoot back in May, but
she qualified for the overall team, which in the US
no women's ever qualified for an overall team. So she
did that, and then she went to PCC World and
absolute crushed it.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Took eight overall.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
In the entire world as well as three gold medals,
like she just did amazing. And then we both got back,
just got back from Handgun World shoot in South Africa
which was in September, where we each won two gold medals,
and I was on the Handgun Overall team for the
nineteen eleven Division Classic. And yeah, so we both have
(04:44):
had a very busy, exciting, chaotic year, but very successful.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
That is amazing. I mean, congratulations to both of you. Obviously,
longtime professional shooter's been doing you know, but there are
a lot of people who are pro shooters who do
not achieve your level. So how do you get to
I mean, seriously, how do you get to be as
good as you guys are?
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I'll definitely say there's a lot that goes on off
the range as well, So a lot of people spend
a lot of time on the range, obviously perfecting our craft. However,
I know both of us have spent a lot of
time this year off the range in the gym, really
working really hard there, dieting, really getting our bodies in
the best shape possible. And it really is paid off
at the end of the year. Created some good habits obviously,
(05:28):
and also.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Just made us fitter, better people in general, I mean,
being exceptionally passionate about what you do I think that's
what separates the greatest from good, and that's something Justin
and I have very common, is passion for our craft,
our sport and wanting to be number one no matter what,
(05:49):
including you know, meeting up on each other at times.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Okay, so how is that? I mean, obviously you're you're
sixteen months apart your sisters, you've got that natural you know,
heads all the time, going at each other, love each other,
but you don't want to beat each other. How is
that when you get out into a match.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's a really really unique thing.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Also, we try to stay away from the divisions, like, uh,
there's so many divisions in USPSA and IF TACK and
what we compete in that we kind of generally stay
in different divisions. I wouldn't say. The only time we
really competed against each other this year was PCC World Shoot,
which was very successful for both of us, myself being
on the overall team and Jamie's being on the ladies team.
(06:30):
We walked away with both teams as a gold medal,
and we just we just try to stay separate because
we wanted to stay pretty see into each of our lanes.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Justine's amazing optics, so she stays in the optics divisions.
And I'm an iron sight old schoolgirl, so I stay
in the iron site divisions. I've always loved irons, and
I think it's a it's a beautiful part of the
gun culture and the sport that helped create what.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
We have today.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
And so it's like kind of my way. I'm a
big history person, so.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
It's kind of my way of honoring where everything started
and like continuing that legacy on.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
All right, let's switch to I mean, obviously you're winning
in competition, but YouTube both are very active in teaching people,
trying to bring people along and getting to shoot better.
You got this class, you got a two day class.
I mean, you can't teach everything of two days. So
what do you focus on when you say, Okay, here's
the nineteen eleven and we're going to make you a
better shooter.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Honestly, it's just exactly what Chris says, grip sides trigger.
A lot of the times if the shooter is missing
or unable to hit the target, if you go right
back to the fundamentals of grip sides trigger, that student
is going to be able to hit exactly what they're
shooting at if they truly do those three things all right?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So I got to ask you, you guys have been there before.
You know Chris Sarno, and he is an acquired taste,
as you say, But seriously, there are times when I
think he's got savant level knowledge about how to teach
people to shoot. Where do you think.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, it's a very unique opportunity teaching with Chris. He
definitely teaches differently than we grew up teaching or being taught.
But I think he has so much experienced in so
many different backgrounds with law enforcement, military teaching, top shot,
just all those different things coming together. It's just just
a wealth of knowledge. And we're super blessed to be here.
And even I've learned a couple of things while I'm here,
(08:23):
which is really awesome. That doesn't happen much anymore with me,
But I definitely have learned a lot from Chris, and
I'm excited for the next time we get to do this.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Also, when you get a class with Chris and you guys,
it's part gun training and it's part comedy show, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yes, Yes, yes, the cool people actually today for their
Halloween costume, they dressed up as Chris, so there was
four of them and it was just it was absolutely comedy.
Chris did not know that was happening. So it was
very exciting to see the happy camaraderie of the four
of them just march it in as Chris and it
was great.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
That is hilarious. Well, I know you guys have got
to get back to doing your class and everything. Thank
you for taking a little time out. Congratulations on your success.
You guys are amazing and really a great example for
anybody who wants to excel, frankly at anything and having
the dedication and the passion that you guys have. All Right,
thank you for being here. All right, don't go far.
(09:20):
Gun talk will be right back.
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Speaker 2 (09:49):
A year.
Speaker 6 (09:52):
Looking for real talk about guns, gear and the shooting lifestyle.
Then tune into gun Talk Nation. Each week, your host,
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(10:14):
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Speaker 9 (10:54):
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(11:15):
you to use your gun and win the fight. Find
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Speaker 3 (11:27):
All right, everybody ted Nusan here celebrating with Tom Gresham
thirty years of gun Talk. Thank you, Tom, congratulations and
salute gamesmall, Miss Small Forever.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
We are gun talk blood brothers.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Carry on, Tom, Yeah, that guy needs to ramp up
the energy. Don't you think I've Tom Gresham, I'm glad
you could be here. I just listened to the Williams
sisters and they were talking about well act samew I
was just talking about before that, which is the big
sign on the wall at brains Ready Studios Grip Sites Trigger.
(12:05):
It reminded me of back when I created the first
TV show about self defense with guns. It was called
Personal Defense TV. I was working for guns and Ammo
and the owners there and they actually had a show
fell out and they came to me and said, hey,
we need a TV show and we don't know what
(12:25):
to do. And because this other one fell out, I
said I know which one to do. Let's do one
on self defense with guns. And no one had done
anything like this. This is we're going back twenty years now.
And I said, well okay, I said, well, this is
what we're gonna do. I wrote up a treatment said
that to him. I said, here's what we're gonna do.
I want to use the top trainers. I want to
(12:47):
go to guns side, I want to use some side
of you, but I want to use CLEMP Smith. I
want to use I said, because all these guys know
how to present. You can tell them I need two
minutes on sites or trigger or whatever. And they that's
all they do is they stand in front of groups
and present this information and we'll go to a gun
site and we'll make it happen. And they say, okay, fine,
(13:09):
the issue we had and get back around to grip
sites trigger the issue we had. Oh side story, Digress
went to a major gun maker hang gun maker and
described the show and said, we're looking for advertisers. They said,
we we're not going to do that. So why is that? So?
(13:29):
We don't make guns for shooting people, right, you make
guns for self defense and for police use. And then
you say, well you do understand we're not actually going
to shoot people the show, right, very well, But what
we ran into for TV for video is you end
(13:52):
up showing the same things over and over because there's
really no such thing as advanced tactics when it comes
to self defense with guns. It's just the basics applied
in different ways. It's grip, sites trigger, and then of
course you can incorporate movement into it and a couple
of other things. But we ended up after like three
(14:16):
seasons it's like, wow, we're doing the same things. And
so unfortunately, and this is what happens in the lifespan
of TV shows, you start doing goofy things. By then,
I was gone. I had left. I told them I
got to go to a radio show and well, it's
more than twenty years now, I guess then, and I said,
(14:36):
you know, I'm doing this radio show and I'm just
going to go full time with that. But I had
created this show, and they kept trying to do more
and more with it and put people in, and they
ended up doing stupid goofy stuff. Because the reality is
you say, okay, how many ways can we show the
proper draw or how to line up sights and how
(14:58):
to press the trigger? And you know, it's like, all right,
it's the same thing, and you know on the one thing,
I think, oh that's it was kind of frustrating at
times because wow, there's only so many things we can show.
But you know what the good news is about that
if you're wanting to master this, if you want to
learn it and you want to get better at it,
(15:19):
and you want to master this, the good news is
there's only so many things, and there are not very
many things for you to master. Get in training and
get training so you can learn how to build a
good grip. And the problem is you go, yeah, okay,
(15:39):
I got a good grip. You no, you don't. You
probably don't because you don't know how to build a
good grip. What do you do with your right hand?
What do you do with your left hand? Should there
be any gaps between your left hand and your right hand?
Should there be a gap down at the base of
your thumb there where you press in? Where do you
put your thumbs? If somebody shows you how to do
(16:01):
this and you build a good grip, what that does
for you It allows you to manage recoil better. If
you have a really good grip, good strong grip. What
you'll see when you're shooting fast is the site's never
come off the target. And I understand you're thinking right now,
(16:22):
but that's crazy because the recoil, the gun's got to
rise and fall back down. No, it doesn't. Actually, if
you have a good grip, a proper grip, and a
good strong hold on your gun, you'll see the front
sight dance on target, but it never comes off the target.
That's how the top shooters shoot. Sight never comes off
the target. It's pop up, up, up, up up up.
(16:45):
How can they do that? Well, they're not having to
bring the gun back down onto the target. It never
left the target because they have a good strong grip.
They've built a good strong grip. And once you've done that,
and the grip is really very much about being able
to shoot faster, shoot accurately, more quickly. Sites are sites
once you know how to line up sights. You know
(17:07):
how to line up sites with red dot or iron sight,
and that is trigger. And I was ill say, once
we learn how to build a good grip and we
know how to line up sites, when we miss, it's
trigger every single time. If we're not shooting where we're
supposed to, you're not pressing the trigger correctly. Yeah I am,
(17:28):
but yeah, I'm not flinching. Yeah you are, I'm not,
Yes you are. And this is where you need another
set of eyes. It's really difficult to diagnose what you
are doing. And the reason it's difficult to diagnose what
you're doing is because at the moment you press the trigger,
(17:51):
what happens. There's this huge explosion in front of your face.
Fire belches out of the bear e. This thing leaps
up in front of your face, and it twists your
hands and you don't know what just happened. You may
think you do, and you probably blink because it's natural
(18:12):
to blink. So how are you going to correct what
just happened when you don't know what just happened. It's
one of the things you get out when you go
to the diagnostic pistol instructor class. That range radis they
teach you how to do all that stuff. All right,
let's go Roger, Line one out of Missouri. Hey, Roger,
you're on gun talk. We'll turn your mind.
Speaker 10 (18:31):
I'm like you, right handed, left eye dominant, and if
I don't get my site picture really good, I'm going
to shoot to the left of the target. Uh huh
at two inches and seven yards.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's a lot. Yep, how do you fix that?
Speaker 10 (18:48):
I just learned to practice practice, practice and move the
site picture.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Do you have you tried squinting a little bit, closing
your right eye your left eye. Does that help it all?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
No?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Nah, I think so. I've tried. I'll throwing it out.
Speaker 10 (19:08):
There with both eyes open, putting it in front of
my left up right eye with my right hand, left
eye with the right hand, and just squeezing off around.
But I finally got to where I can put them
did center, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
And one of the things you can do, and this
is not necessary for you because you've kind of figured
it out for everybody. This is where the dry practice
really comes in is being able to lift that gun
up and line the sights up. Well, maybe you know,
you could either do it without pressing the tricker. You
could do it with a dummy Gunyah, get the sights up,
bring the gun back down, bring it back up, and
have a target. You line it up on a target.
(19:45):
But this works well with a dummy gun, a certain gun,
a plastic gun, whatever, a BB gun doesn't matter.
Speaker 10 (19:51):
You can't find anything else.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, I mean, just do it hundreds of times, do
it thousands of times so that the next time you
pick up your gun and you want to put the
sights on target, it just don't you find that after
a while, you don't even think about the sights.
Speaker 10 (20:09):
It gets all the bank. You know where to put it,
and it's there, and it's behind what's behind the center
of the target disappears.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I don't even think about sights on an iron sided gun,
and just pick the gun up and the sights go
to the target because I know what it's supposed to
look like, and you know what that does. Just think
about this roger and get your thoughts on it. It frees
you up to think about other stuff. Yeah, and for me,
(20:39):
the other stuff is always in my head. I've just
got this recitation. It's like this goofy chant, just like
trigger trigger, trigger, trigger, trigger trigger. I mean, that's that's
all I'm thinking about when I come up because I
don't have to worry about the sights anymore. I've learned
how to line those up. I know I've built a
good grip, But the thing I continually have to work
on is the trigger because I want to shoot faster.
(21:01):
I yanked, I don't you know, it's like and you
feel it's such anthead when you get it wrong.
Speaker 10 (21:07):
Yeah, done, then you will do something like that, just
to what did I just do? That was not right?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Why is that? Why is that bullet hole over there?
Speaker 10 (21:18):
That's that where I wanted it to go, and I
got uh, you know, during qualification one time I do it,
I put one to the left of the heart.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (21:30):
I stood in front of a mirror with a dry gun,
no ammunition, no clips, no nothing. In the other in
the same room stood in front of a mirror, and
what I had done is I'd exhaled.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Just simple as that, just one little change. Perfect. Hey, Roger,
I appreciate you appreciate the costs or good information. You know,
it just requires work and it's not uncomfortable. It's not unpleasant.
It just requires repetition and work in concentration and dedication.
And said, Okay, we're gonna shoot better. Hey, when we
come back, we're going to talk to a guy who
(22:03):
has taught thousands people to shoot. He's been in a
lot of gun fights. Frankly, he's gone places and done
things all around the world as part of the Special
Operations Unit. We'll get his take on what do you
what does he know that we don't know about gunfighting. Hey,
(22:26):
welcome back to gun Talk, Tom Gresham here. Our number
is eight six six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun.
One of the more interesting people, one of the biggest
influencers in the gun world is a fellow. You know
his name, you know the products. Larry Vickers, former Delta
twenty years special operator and more. Been to a lot
of interesting places and places we don't know. Helped develop
(22:48):
a number of different guns, including the HK four sixteen
machine guns, up guns, pistols, rifles. It doesn't matter. Larry
Vickers has been there in training. Larry, thanks for joining us, man.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
You bro.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I appreciate it absolutely all right. So when you're you're
you've taught everybody everybody from you know, mothers who want
to learn to shoot, to you know, ninja dudes who
really know what they're doing. What do you think in
your experience is the biggest thing that guys who are
trained like you, who do train all the time and
go places and do things, what do you understand about
(23:22):
self defense with guns that the regular person doesn't.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And you've got to get the hits on target and
what ends up happening is two things. People over emphasize speed.
And the other thing is nobody's gonna have to tell
you to shoot faster in a gunfight. I mean, nobody's
gonna have to come up and tap you on the
shoulder and say, hey, bro, you're shooting too slow. I mean,
you're gonna shoot. As a general rule, the average person
(23:48):
is going to shoot as fast as they can. The
problem is, in most cases that's at the expense of
accuracy and acker hits on target. I remember, it's all
about accurate ates on target. That's what that's what decides
a gunfight. So you have to you have to shoot fast.
Speed is a factor, but not at the expense of
(24:09):
a reasonable degree of accuracy. That's the thing that I
preached literally for years, and like you said, I preached
it from you know, housewives that want to learn to shoot,
all the way up to special operators and you know
and saw.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So it really is true that you can't fit, you
can't miss somebody fast enough to win.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Enough to win. Thank you very much, great mine.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I mean, there it is. I didn't make it up.
You've been using it before me.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Speed is fine, accuracy is final.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
There it is.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
You know, that's a line that you know, you might
as well put in concrete because it's for real.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I remember reading that in Bill Jordan's book No Second
Place Winner, which by the way, is one of the
best titles for a book on gunfighting I ever saw.
All right, so let me ask you this. So we'll
just bounce around a lot of different things here. And
you've got a great series of books that you do.
And you got your nineteen eleven, MP forty AR fifteen,
(25:05):
nineteen eleven. I love the nineteen eleven, but I keep
hearing people telling me, oh, it's old, it's out of date,
it's a fud gun. There's no it has no purpose.
I think, well, you know, I kind of like it.
I shoot it pretty well. What do you think.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
It's an enthusiast pistol? Now, okay, it means in order
to run in nineteen eleven, it's still relevant. But in
order to run in nineteen eleven, you have to raise
your game. You got to be a more doubt ind
than user. You can't be somebody that you know buys
a block and never loves it. All they do is
stuff in mo and they don't even think twice about
(25:39):
prevent a maintenance. They don't think twice about parts breakage,
none of that. You can't have that mentality with a
nineteen eleven or it's going to buy you. It's it's
a it's a pistol where you have to raise, you know,
your awareness game, the ability to diagnose what problems the
gun may have because remember, you know, almost every part
(25:59):
is fitted or can potentially be hand fitted on that gun.
We don't live in a day and age where you
have a lot of hand fitted parts on farms. You know,
as a general rule is exactly the opposite. You know,
parts are as understandably in this day and age, you
plug and play. You have a part that's broke, you
just put a new one you drive on. That isn't
really the case with a nineteen eleven.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
It's more it's more like driving a classic car.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Then yeah, one hundred percent. Well put yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
You got to take care of it right. You got
to know how to run it right, and if you do,
you can get a lot of pleasure out of it.
It'll work for you. But if you don't, like to say,
it's going to leave you on the side of the road.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, And it's one of those things where you go, hey,
I don't want to sign up for that, Well, then
you don't. You don't get a nineteen eleven.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
All right, talk to me about ars versus aks.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Well, here is I'm glad you brought that up because
I have a thing that I say, those who have
a choice use an AR, those who don't have a
choice using AKA.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
All right, what's that meaning?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Great gun, But as you become a more sophisticated shooter,
that's where you're going to gravitate towards an ALR just plain.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Simple would I've also had a thought when you go
around the world, if you get into a situation where
you're going to find a gun on the ground in
the middle of a melee, you better know how to
pick up and run and clear an AK because that's
probably what you're gonna find.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Well, yeah, one hundred, I totally agree. You need to
be able to run that gun. You need to be
able load and unloaded. You need to be able to
manipulate the safety. You need to be able to you know,
clear malfunctions, even though you know they rarely have them,
that's still feasible. And you need, you know, you need
to be able to run the gun. You don't have
to know all the ins and outs, but you need to.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Know how to run it all right, So right now,
I mean you've been involved with HK and the pistols
and the rifles and everything else. But any given day,
when you, you know, get ready for the day, what
is it that you would like to be putting on
your belt? Uh man y yeah, yeah, you sound like me.
(28:08):
It's like a problem is we have too many choices.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Oh, I know, I know a sophisticated end user is
going to gravitate towards you know, guns like the HKVP nine,
which is a really good gun. Accurate's got a good trigger, reliable,
They're really good. You know, it's not the gun for everybody.
I would say, the gun You're not gonna go wrong
(28:34):
with a Block nineteen specifically at Gen five or a
Gen five Block forty five, not to forty five ACP,
but you know Block forty.
Speaker 11 (28:43):
Five and nine million, yes, yeah, yeah, those two guns
you're you know, you could have I tell people you
could own ten guns or a thousand guns, and you'll
never regret owning one of.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Those two pistols. So if in doubt Gen five Block
nineteen or a you know, Block forty five the.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Model forty five, which is a nine millimeter Yeah, fine milimeter.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
And it's it's a Gen five. They only ever made
it in Gen five.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Right, Okay, So what are the things that people need
to work at going when they go to the range,
specifically for self defense training that people don't want to do.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Pre or control, you know, shooting groups. I see a
lot of people just want to go and shoot fast,
and it's it's a struggle to shoot a group. Put
a target, you know, indoor range, put a bull's eye
at seven or ten yards and work one shooting a group,
trying to keep them all in the ten ring. That
a lot of people don't want to go there. Tom.
They're just like, no, it's too hard. I just want
(29:43):
to have fun. I just want to launch bullets down range.
And actually it's counterproductive. You need it's crawl walk run,
and shooting groups is the crawl phase and you need
to build that up before you start walking or start running.
So that's the thing that most people don't want to do.
They find it boring, it's tedious, it's challenging, it's not fun,
(30:04):
and most people don't want to do it. Well.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
It also makes them look bad because they realize they're
not as good as they thought.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
That's you just set a mouthful though.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
You tell them, okay, I want you to put all
your shots to touch each other right there on that
little bity died over there, and they go what you go, Yeah,
no you should. No, it's a handgun. You can't do that.
Actually you can. And then of course you pick it
up and do it, and they go, oh, I guess
my my gun's actually better than I thought, and I'm
not as good as I thought.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah, yeah, sights are off or something wrong.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Oh yeah, I love that, don't you love the sights
are off. I keep shooting low and.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Left, shoot and left. That's right, yep, all.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Right, So you are, of course of the creator of
the vicar sling. Every long gun should have a sling, right.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Oh yeah, I would say one hundred percent right.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Somebody said the sling on a long gun is like
a holster for your handgun.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's a lot of truth in that.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
You let go of butt to go do something with
your hands. Where's your gun gonna go? Well, where's your
gun going? All right, Larry, We can't let you go
without talked about the big elephant in the room, which
is the legal issues you got yourself involved in. I'm
just gonna get out of the way and let you
describe what happened and where you are with it now.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Well, you know, I did stupid. I mean, it's just
that simple. I didn't feel like the laws and rules
applied to me, and I just kind of looked the
other way. I kind of, you know, took that attitude
of the British sas who dares wins, and I, you know,
I got nailed. You know, I imported some guns I
shouldn't have imported, and I kind of knew at the
(31:39):
time things were a little bit shady. I got hooked
up with an importer and I knew he was doing
some questionable stuff, but I looked the other way. I
was like, well, you know, at the end of the day,
I'm getting the guns for my collection that I want,
and so that's really what matters. Well, I got nailed,
So I did, you know, I used to say, and
I've said in the past, you know, people ask me, yeah,
(32:01):
I'm going in the military, my son's going in the military.
What should he you know, what should he focus on?
I said, stay healthy, stay focused, and stay out of trouble. Well,
I broke one of my you know, going roles, so
I didn't stay focused and I also didn't stay out
of trouble. So where does that that's done? It's still ongoing,
believe it or not. Really the stuff it's yeah, it's
(32:24):
not done yet. So I really can't talk a lot
of details. I can just basically own it and say
I was a moron. You know, It's that simple. But no,
it's not done yet. It's still you know, it's still ongoing.
You know, the government's taking their own sweet time sort
it all out, you know, and I'm basically playing the
waiting game, which is difficult sure, uh to do, it's
(32:46):
very stressful. I just have to start, you know. I
just have to try to stay focused on day to
day and uh and drive one.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
The flip side is Tom. You know, I have the
cancer survivor. I had the floydularoma started in twenty one
and I'm past it now. I've I've had very you know,
excellent chemo, excellent care here in Charlotte, North Carolina. It
really went well and it's in remission. So you know,
(33:14):
it's hard for me to go. I take that for granted.
I take the cancer part for again. Hey you know
I'm in remission. Everything's good to go. Why just turn
about a lady that had lymphoma and she it was
not treatable via chemo and she died within a year.
So what I've got going on, you know, when my
legal side of the house could become pretty minor, is
(33:37):
that cancer comes back. Yeah. It's all about perspective, because
it's like, oh, now I'm worried about you know, what
I got going on legally and what that. You know, Hell,
I'm not even be alive to face it, you know.
So I and everybody tells me that, you know, my
doctor and everybody's like, hey, you got to look at
the bright side here. You could be dead right now.
(33:59):
Cancer could have you know, and it happens to people
every day. I'll tell you something else in Delta. It's
sad to say. I friends of mine have had numerous
friends of mine that I served with that had cancer
and more than a few died from it.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
That that downward comparison and looking around and going, yeah,
you know, I'm really not so bad off here.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Oh it could be a lot worse. You know. It's
a challenge based on the legal situation I put myself in.
It's a challenge to stay positive. But you really got to,
you know, you kind of have to because you have
to be able to put it in perspective and say, hey,
you know, it could be a hell of a lot worse.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, And I mean, look, and in the meantime, you're
still doing a lot of stuff online. You're doing you know,
your your stuff with the guns and all. If people
want to keep up with me, what's the best way
for them to find you online?
Speaker 3 (34:50):
The Larry Vickers on Instagram, in Facebook is Larry Vickers
on Facebook. And I'm also on X I believe the
Larry Vickers on xor Larry Vickers I've got an it
or I yeah it guy who set all that up stair.
I'm still you know, and you're gonna appreciate this. I'm
still a little bit in the dark ages on some
(35:10):
of that stuff. You know we got, Like you mentioned,
the books, the books have been a grand slam home run.
We just brought out our volume four HK book. The books,
you know, on a scale one to ten have been
a fifteen.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Yeah. It's called the Vickers Guide series. The Vickers guide series. Guy,
it's amazing never and all you gotta do is google it.
He'll come right up. Vicker's Guide will come right up.
There you go, Larry. I am flat out of time
and this is way too much fun. We gotta do
it again.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Okay, yeah, one hundred per man anytime.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Sounds good. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
All right, Tom, have a good brother.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
You too. All right. Gun Talk will be right back.
Put all your gear on that you carry and then
roll around on the ground. Now, get up all your
gear that's on the ground. That's what you're not going
to have in a fight.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Gun Talk should be in your podcast feed. Check out
gun Talk Nation. What's it like to be blown up?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
You know?
Speaker 3 (36:01):
If it's like C four, it's almost like a smack hunting. Yeah,
we talk about that too.
Speaker 9 (36:06):
On your crosshairs, I like a thin crosshair.
Speaker 12 (36:09):
Ajay, you're really dating yourself by calling things crosshairs.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
You're redical whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Have some fun and stay informed with the gun Talk podcast.
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Speaker 6 (36:47):
Looking for real talk about guns, gear and the shooting lifestyle,
then tune into gun Talk Nation. Each week, your host,
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(37:09):
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Speaker 13 (37:20):
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(37:41):
Visit gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Well it appears online that I have irritated people by
supporting the NRA. People have said, oh yeah, no, no, no,
I'm not going to do that. I dropped out. Okay, great,
But you said I am out as long as Wayne
Lapierre is there. Okay, he's not there anymore. What's keeping
you from going back in? What's keeping you from supporting
(38:24):
the oldest it's still the largest gun rights group in
the country, which needs help fixing itself. Just just wondering,
trying to understand people said I'll be back when Wayne
is gone. He's now gone, and so are the other
(38:44):
people who are around him. Is it not time to
get off the sidelines to get back in the game. Yeah,
I know. We've so We've got GOA and Secondment Foundation
and FBC. They're all good, but none of them can
do what the NRA can do. My opinion, what's your take?
Eight sixt' six Talk Guns. If you want to be
(39:17):
part of the after show, give me a call right now,
Tom Talk Gun. We can talk about, well, whatever you
want to talk about. What's the movie? Last night? Saw
The Soul on Fire. It's very good, inspirational. It's one
of those reminders of sometimes little things you do can
make a real difference to people and I want to
say that just as a side note, can I suggest
(39:42):
that each day you try to find some way to
do something for somebody, simple as holding a door open
for somebody, saying hello, smiling, or stop and say hey,
can I help you with that? Can I can I
help you with those groceries and get them out to
the car for you something I don't know what it is.
We got to look for the opportunities. Sometimes it's requires
(40:04):
a little bit more effort on your part. Around here,
I'm used to stopping with somebody's on the side of
the road. Maybe they're taking pictures, maybe they're doing something,
or I stop and saying you guys, okay, everything, okay, yeah, okay,
all right, fine. I don't know what it will be.
You don't know what it will be, but at some
point it's in some way you might be able to
(40:25):
make a difference, small difference, big difference. The interesting part
is sometimes what you think is small turns out to
be big. Maybe you invite somebody to go to the
range with you, Maybe you get somebody into self defense
(40:46):
with guns. Maybe it ends up making a real difference
in somebody's life. Or maybe it's just hey, we went
out and had fun. We went to the range, we
shot some amo and had a good time. I am
actually went online this morning. I'm looking at a couple
of places. I'm going to go take a couple more classes. Yeah,
(41:07):
and I've taken classes everywhere, a lot of classes. Why
do I keep doing that? Well, first of all, I
do it because it's fun. Frankly. Number two is I
know that every day that goes by that I'll get
further away from taking a class, my skills deteriorate. I
can't get to the rains enough. I should, but I don't,
(41:32):
And so you're never as good as you were the
last day of the class. You're just you're going downhill.
So you've got to go back and recharge the battery,
if you will. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna
get down to range ready. I'm probably gonna go to
Gunside again because I like what they do. I like
the way they teach. Sick Academy is always there, ready
to go. Other places are available to you. I guess
(41:56):
I would just say, if you haven't done it, try it.
See what you think. I think you're gonna really enjoy it.
And once you do, if you go to a really
good school, you're probably gonna want to go back. I
have found that generally speaking, I'm gonna use a gun
sight as an example. When people go at the end
(42:17):
of the class, they immediately start trying to figure out
a way to get back. That certainly has been the
case that rains. Ready, how many times have we had
people call and say, yeah, I've been to four classes,
I've been to sick classes. I've been to nine classes
that range. Ready, I keep going back. And I asked, well,
why why do you keep going back? Sometimes? Well, you
know what they do, what I do, take the same
class over and over. Sometimes why is that? Well, one
(42:40):
it's fun, and two it's a refresher, and three they're
gonna say something in there. They're gonna show me something
that I didn't know, or maybe I knew and I forgot.
And frankly, if I come away with one good, solid
piece of information, one good skill that I picked up,
it was worthwhile, It was worth my time, it was
(43:03):
worth my money. So that's the way I look at it.
I just think that if you are if you decide
to carry a gun for self defense, or if you
have a gun at your home for self defense. You
have a responsibility to be competent with it, to be good,
not just adequate, but good with it. If you think
that's true, then you ow it to yourself and all
(43:25):
the people around you to get that training, to work
on it, and to keep your skills up at a
good level. That's my take on it. In the meantime,
get to the rains, Invite somebody to go with you,
have some fun out there. Hey, buy a new gun.
I love spending other people's money. That's a great week.
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
All right, welcome back to gun Talk, Tom Gresham. Here
we at this point we're doing this as kind of
a video and radio hybrid thing, so you'll be able
to go online and see the video of this because
trust me, it is going to be worth it. We're
joined right now by people who I have known projectally
forever for you girls, the Williams Sisters, jayly Sinjestin.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hi guys, Hi are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm good. So you were down at Range Ready Studios
and you're doing the incredible cult experience thing right.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Yes, it is an absolute blast so far.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Okay, So before I go any further, what's going on
with your outfit?
Speaker 4 (00:54):
So if we are doing this around Halloween, so the
staff decided to dress up today. I'm the Fairy. My
wishes are to make all of your shooting dreams come
true with the biby boppy bang.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Okay, so you could cure the low and left thing
for us, right, yes.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Exactly, just a little bit fairy does and you'll be
good to go.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
All right. So for people who don't know, you guys
are actually professional shooters. You've been doing this from like
age zero almost, it seems like to us. And now
you're in your armor twenties? Is that fairy? Okay? Good
deal and still tearing it up and on the cold
professional shooting team. So what are you doing it? Range? Ready?
(01:35):
What are you guys going to be having? Anybody shoot?
Speaker 5 (01:38):
We're shooting the Colts nineteen eleven optics ready gun. It's
very exciting. We have what twenty people in the class,
so we're introducing.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
The gun to them.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
We're teaching them how to shoot.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
With optics as well as fundamentals from.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
The draw tit picture and.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Just basically covering everything with this awesome new gun.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Everybody shooting, all right.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So obviously you guys get this question all the time,
so I'll throw it out there. Does anybody really shoot
a nineteen eleven anymore? Isn't that like an old fashioned gun?
Speaker 4 (02:08):
There's definitely a place for it. There's definitely people who
just can't get away from the nineteen eleven. It's definitely
a classic that everybody has learned to love over the years.
I would say like a lot of the nineteen eleven
fanatics are still all in.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
They still absolutely.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Love the nineteen elevens and they keep asking for more,
and that's exactly what cold gives.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Okay, So people always ask me, so, what is it
you like about the nineteen eleven and generating What I
do is I just hand it to them, let them
shoot it, and after about two shots with the trigger,
they go, oh, now I see what you guys are
talking about. Right, Yes, it's a.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Very crisp, clean gun.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
It's great because it's like all steel, the frame steel,
the slight steal so it's very heavy, so it helps
them sort the recoil and the triggers on nineteen elevens
are notorious for being so chriss, so clean. It's just
a great It's thinner guns so you can get your
hands around it, which is awesome because you know, her
(03:05):
and I were short people, so we have very big hands,
so we can get our hands around in nineteen eleven
just easily.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
They really fit most people really well. Most people can
shoot them well, and they're customizable. You can do different
things to them with you know drop safeties and you
know different links, triggers and different things. It's kind of
the ultimate customizable pistol. It really is.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Yeh, absolutely like the nineteen eleven and we say AR
fifteen's or one of those, like some of those guns
on the market where every company pretty much makes an
accessory for us. And that's one of the great things
about the nineteen eleven.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So people have paid money to come there and shoot
with you guys. Who else is there from cold.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
We've got the whole protein here.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
We've got Jay Lee's, myself, Wyatt Gibson, and Mark Ruddle.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
All right, so tell me what's going on with you
guys in your competition.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
World.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
We actually had two World Championships this year and it
was really exciting because there's a qualification process to get
on Team USA.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And Justine shot.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
We both shot PCC World shoot back in May, but
she qualified for the overall team, which in the US
no women's ever qualified for an overall team. So she
did that, and then she went to PCC World and
absolute crushed it.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Took eight overall.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
In the entire world as well as three gold medals,
like she just did amazing. And then we both got back,
just got back from Handgun World shoot in South Africa
which was in September, where we each won two gold medals,
and I was on the Handgun Overall team for the
nineteen eleven Division Classic. And yeah, so we both have
(04:44):
had a very busy, exciting, chaotic year, but very successful.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
That is amazing. I mean, congratulations to both of you. Obviously,
longtime professional shooter's been doing you know, but there are
a lot of people who are pro shooters who do
not achieve your level. So how do you get to
I mean, seriously, how do you get to be as
good as you guys are?
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I'll definitely say there's a lot that goes on off
the range as well, So a lot of people spend
a lot of time on the range, obviously perfecting our craft. However,
I know both of us have spent a lot of
time this year off the range in the gym, really
working really hard there, dieting, really getting our bodies in
the best shape possible. And it really is paid off
at the end of the year. Created some good habits obviously,
(05:28):
and also.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Just made us fitter, better people in general, I mean,
being exceptionally passionate about what you do I think that's
what separates the greatest from good, and that's something Justin
and I have very common, is passion for our craft,
our sport and wanting to be number one no matter what,
(05:49):
including you know, meeting up on each other at times.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Okay, so how is that? I mean, obviously you're you're
sixteen months apart your sisters, you've got that natural you know,
heads all the time, going at each other, love each other,
but you don't want to beat each other. How is
that when you get out into a match.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's a really really unique thing.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Also, we try to stay away from the divisions, like, uh,
there's so many divisions in USPSA and IF TACK and
what we compete in that we kind of generally stay
in different divisions. I wouldn't say. The only time we
really competed against each other this year was PCC World Shoot,
which was very successful for both of us, myself being
on the overall team and Jamie's being on the ladies team.
(06:30):
We walked away with both teams as a gold medal,
and we just we just try to stay separate because
we wanted to stay pretty see into each of our lanes.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Justine's amazing optics, so she stays in the optics divisions.
And I'm an iron sight old schoolgirl, so I stay
in the iron site divisions. I've always loved irons, and
I think it's a it's a beautiful part of the
gun culture and the sport that helped create what.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
We have today.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
And so it's like kind of my way. I'm a
big history person, so.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
It's kind of my way of honoring where everything started
and like continuing that legacy on.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
All right, let's switch to I mean, obviously you're winning
in competition, but YouTube both are very active in teaching people,
trying to bring people along and getting to shoot better.
You got this class, you got a two day class.
I mean, you can't teach everything of two days. So
what do you focus on when you say, Okay, here's
the nineteen eleven and we're going to make you a
better shooter.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Honestly, it's just exactly what Chris says, grip sides trigger.
A lot of the times if the shooter is missing
or unable to hit the target, if you go right
back to the fundamentals of grip sides trigger, that student
is going to be able to hit exactly what they're
shooting at if they truly do those three things all right?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So I got to ask you, you guys have been there before.
You know Chris Sarno, and he is an acquired taste,
as you say, But seriously, there are times when I
think he's got savant level knowledge about how to teach
people to shoot. Where do you think.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, it's a very unique opportunity teaching with Chris. He
definitely teaches differently than we grew up teaching or being taught.
But I think he has so much experienced in so
many different backgrounds with law enforcement, military teaching, top shot,
just all those different things coming together. It's just just
a wealth of knowledge. And we're super blessed to be here.
And even I've learned a couple of things while I'm here,
(08:23):
which is really awesome. That doesn't happen much anymore with me,
But I definitely have learned a lot from Chris, and
I'm excited for the next time we get to do this.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Also, when you get a class with Chris and you guys,
it's part gun training and it's part comedy show, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yes, Yes, yes, the cool people actually today for their
Halloween costume, they dressed up as Chris, so there was
four of them and it was just it was absolutely comedy.
Chris did not know that was happening. So it was
very exciting to see the happy camaraderie of the four
of them just march it in as Chris and it
was great.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
That is hilarious. Well, I know you guys have got
to get back to doing your class and everything. Thank
you for taking a little time out. Congratulations on your success.
You guys are amazing and really a great example for
anybody who wants to excel, frankly at anything and having
the dedication and the passion that you guys have. All Right,
thank you for being here. All right, don't go far.
(09:20):
Gun talk will be right back.
Speaker 7 (09:24):
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Speaker 2 (09:49):
A year.
Speaker 6 (09:52):
Looking for real talk about guns, gear and the shooting lifestyle.
Then tune into gun Talk Nation. Each week, your host,
me Ryan Wresham, sits down with industry insiders, trainers, and
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(10:14):
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Speaker 8 (10:23):
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Speaker 9 (10:54):
Owning, shooting, and carrying firearms is your responsibility. Range Ready
Studios offers training classes taught by top level instructors with
real world experience. Range Ready delivers basic and advanced classes
for pistol and rifle. We also offer a lady's only
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(11:15):
you to use your gun and win the fight. Find
us at Rangereadystudios dot com to learn more.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
All right, everybody ted Nusan here celebrating with Tom Gresham
thirty years of gun Talk. Thank you, Tom, congratulations and
salute gamesmall, Miss Small Forever.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
We are gun talk blood brothers.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Carry on, Tom, Yeah, that guy needs to ramp up
the energy. Don't you think I've Tom Gresham, I'm glad
you could be here. I just listened to the Williams
sisters and they were talking about well act samew I
was just talking about before that, which is the big
sign on the wall at brains Ready Studios Grip Sites Trigger.
(12:05):
It reminded me of back when I created the first
TV show about self defense with guns. It was called
Personal Defense TV. I was working for guns and Ammo
and the owners there and they actually had a show
fell out and they came to me and said, hey,
we need a TV show and we don't know what
(12:25):
to do. And because this other one fell out, I
said I know which one to do. Let's do one
on self defense with guns. And no one had done
anything like this. This is we're going back twenty years now.
And I said, well okay, I said, well, this is
what we're gonna do. I wrote up a treatment said
that to him. I said, here's what we're gonna do.
I want to use the top trainers. I want to
(12:47):
go to guns side, I want to use some side
of you, but I want to use CLEMP Smith. I
want to use I said, because all these guys know
how to present. You can tell them I need two
minutes on sites or trigger or whatever. And they that's
all they do is they stand in front of groups
and present this information and we'll go to a gun
site and we'll make it happen. And they say, okay, fine,
(13:09):
the issue we had and get back around to grip
sites trigger the issue we had. Oh side story, Digress
went to a major gun maker hang gun maker and
described the show and said, we're looking for advertisers. They said,
we we're not going to do that. So why is that? So?
(13:29):
We don't make guns for shooting people, right, you make
guns for self defense and for police use. And then
you say, well you do understand we're not actually going
to shoot people the show, right, very well, But what
we ran into for TV for video is you end
(13:52):
up showing the same things over and over because there's
really no such thing as advanced tactics when it comes
to self defense with guns. It's just the basics applied
in different ways. It's grip, sites trigger, and then of
course you can incorporate movement into it and a couple
of other things. But we ended up after like three
(14:16):
seasons it's like, wow, we're doing the same things. And
so unfortunately, and this is what happens in the lifespan
of TV shows, you start doing goofy things. By then,
I was gone. I had left. I told them I
got to go to a radio show and well, it's
more than twenty years now, I guess then, and I said,
(14:36):
you know, I'm doing this radio show and I'm just
going to go full time with that. But I had
created this show, and they kept trying to do more
and more with it and put people in, and they
ended up doing stupid goofy stuff. Because the reality is
you say, okay, how many ways can we show the
proper draw or how to line up sights and how
(14:58):
to press the trigger? And you know, it's like, all right,
it's the same thing, and you know on the one thing,
I think, oh that's it was kind of frustrating at
times because wow, there's only so many things we can show.
But you know what the good news is about that
if you're wanting to master this, if you want to
learn it and you want to get better at it,
(15:19):
and you want to master this, the good news is
there's only so many things, and there are not very
many things for you to master. Get in training and
get training so you can learn how to build a
good grip. And the problem is you go, yeah, okay,
(15:39):
I got a good grip. You no, you don't. You
probably don't because you don't know how to build a
good grip. What do you do with your right hand?
What do you do with your left hand? Should there
be any gaps between your left hand and your right hand?
Should there be a gap down at the base of
your thumb there where you press in? Where do you
put your thumbs? If somebody shows you how to do
(16:01):
this and you build a good grip, what that does
for you It allows you to manage recoil better. If
you have a really good grip, good strong grip. What
you'll see when you're shooting fast is the site's never
come off the target. And I understand you're thinking right now,
(16:22):
but that's crazy because the recoil, the gun's got to
rise and fall back down. No, it doesn't. Actually, if
you have a good grip, a proper grip, and a
good strong hold on your gun, you'll see the front
sight dance on target, but it never comes off the target.
That's how the top shooters shoot. Sight never comes off
the target. It's pop up, up, up, up up up.
(16:45):
How can they do that? Well, they're not having to
bring the gun back down onto the target. It never
left the target because they have a good strong grip.
They've built a good strong grip. And once you've done that,
and the grip is really very much about being able
to shoot faster, shoot accurately, more quickly. Sites are sites
once you know how to line up sights. You know
(17:07):
how to line up sites with red dot or iron sight,
and that is trigger. And I was ill say, once
we learn how to build a good grip and we
know how to line up sites, when we miss, it's
trigger every single time. If we're not shooting where we're
supposed to, you're not pressing the trigger correctly. Yeah I am,
(17:28):
but yeah, I'm not flinching. Yeah you are, I'm not,
Yes you are. And this is where you need another
set of eyes. It's really difficult to diagnose what you
are doing. And the reason it's difficult to diagnose what
you're doing is because at the moment you press the trigger,
(17:51):
what happens. There's this huge explosion in front of your face.
Fire belches out of the bear e. This thing leaps
up in front of your face, and it twists your
hands and you don't know what just happened. You may
think you do, and you probably blink because it's natural
(18:12):
to blink. So how are you going to correct what
just happened when you don't know what just happened. It's
one of the things you get out when you go
to the diagnostic pistol instructor class. That range radis they
teach you how to do all that stuff. All right,
let's go Roger, Line one out of Missouri. Hey, Roger,
you're on gun talk. We'll turn your mind.
Speaker 10 (18:31):
I'm like you, right handed, left eye dominant, and if
I don't get my site picture really good, I'm going
to shoot to the left of the target. Uh huh
at two inches and seven yards.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's a lot. Yep, how do you fix that?
Speaker 10 (18:48):
I just learned to practice practice, practice and move the
site picture.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Do you have you tried squinting a little bit, closing
your right eye your left eye. Does that help it all?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
No?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Nah, I think so. I've tried. I'll throwing it out.
Speaker 10 (19:08):
There with both eyes open, putting it in front of
my left up right eye with my right hand, left
eye with the right hand, and just squeezing off around.
But I finally got to where I can put them
did center, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
And one of the things you can do, and this
is not necessary for you because you've kind of figured
it out for everybody. This is where the dry practice
really comes in is being able to lift that gun
up and line the sights up. Well, maybe you know,
you could either do it without pressing the tricker. You
could do it with a dummy Gunyah, get the sights up,
bring the gun back down, bring it back up, and
have a target. You line it up on a target.
(19:45):
But this works well with a dummy gun, a certain gun,
a plastic gun, whatever, a BB gun doesn't matter.
Speaker 10 (19:51):
You can't find anything else.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, I mean, just do it hundreds of times, do
it thousands of times so that the next time you
pick up your gun and you want to put the
sights on target, it just don't you find that after
a while, you don't even think about the sights.
Speaker 10 (20:09):
It gets all the bank. You know where to put it,
and it's there, and it's behind what's behind the center
of the target disappears.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I don't even think about sights on an iron sided gun,
and just pick the gun up and the sights go
to the target because I know what it's supposed to
look like, and you know what that does. Just think
about this roger and get your thoughts on it. It frees
you up to think about other stuff. Yeah, and for me,
(20:39):
the other stuff is always in my head. I've just
got this recitation. It's like this goofy chant, just like
trigger trigger, trigger, trigger, trigger trigger. I mean, that's that's
all I'm thinking about when I come up because I
don't have to worry about the sights anymore. I've learned
how to line those up. I know I've built a
good grip, But the thing I continually have to work
on is the trigger because I want to shoot faster.
(21:01):
I yanked, I don't you know, it's like and you
feel it's such anthead when you get it wrong.
Speaker 10 (21:07):
Yeah, done, then you will do something like that, just
to what did I just do? That was not right?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Why is that? Why is that bullet hole over there?
Speaker 10 (21:18):
That's that where I wanted it to go, and I
got uh, you know, during qualification one time I do it,
I put one to the left of the heart.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (21:30):
I stood in front of a mirror with a dry gun,
no ammunition, no clips, no nothing. In the other in
the same room stood in front of a mirror, and
what I had done is I'd exhaled.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Just simple as that, just one little change. Perfect. Hey, Roger,
I appreciate you appreciate the costs or good information. You know,
it just requires work and it's not uncomfortable. It's not unpleasant.
It just requires repetition and work in concentration and dedication.
And said, Okay, we're gonna shoot better. Hey, when we
come back, we're going to talk to a guy who
(22:03):
has taught thousands people to shoot. He's been in a
lot of gun fights. Frankly, he's gone places and done
things all around the world as part of the Special
Operations Unit. We'll get his take on what do you
what does he know that we don't know about gunfighting. Hey,
(22:26):
welcome back to gun Talk, Tom Gresham here. Our number
is eight six six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun.
One of the more interesting people, one of the biggest
influencers in the gun world is a fellow. You know
his name, you know the products. Larry Vickers, former Delta
twenty years special operator and more. Been to a lot
of interesting places and places we don't know. Helped develop
(22:48):
a number of different guns, including the HK four sixteen
machine guns, up guns, pistols, rifles. It doesn't matter. Larry
Vickers has been there in training. Larry, thanks for joining us, man.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
You bro.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I appreciate it absolutely all right. So when you're you're
you've taught everybody everybody from you know, mothers who want
to learn to shoot, to you know, ninja dudes who
really know what they're doing. What do you think in
your experience is the biggest thing that guys who are
trained like you, who do train all the time and
go places and do things, what do you understand about
(23:22):
self defense with guns that the regular person doesn't.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And you've got to get the hits on target and
what ends up happening is two things. People over emphasize speed.
And the other thing is nobody's gonna have to tell
you to shoot faster in a gunfight. I mean, nobody's
gonna have to come up and tap you on the
shoulder and say, hey, bro, you're shooting too slow. I mean,
you're gonna shoot. As a general rule, the average person
(23:48):
is going to shoot as fast as they can. The
problem is, in most cases that's at the expense of
accuracy and acker hits on target. I remember, it's all
about accurate ates on target. That's what that's what decides
a gunfight. So you have to you have to shoot fast.
Speed is a factor, but not at the expense of
(24:09):
a reasonable degree of accuracy. That's the thing that I
preached literally for years, and like you said, I preached
it from you know, housewives that want to learn to shoot,
all the way up to special operators and you know
and saw.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So it really is true that you can't fit, you
can't miss somebody fast enough to win.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Enough to win. Thank you very much, great mine.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I mean, there it is. I didn't make it up.
You've been using it before me.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Speed is fine, accuracy is final.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
There it is.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
You know, that's a line that you know, you might
as well put in concrete because it's for real.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I remember reading that in Bill Jordan's book No Second
Place Winner, which by the way, is one of the
best titles for a book on gunfighting I ever saw.
All right, so let me ask you this. So we'll
just bounce around a lot of different things here. And
you've got a great series of books that you do.
And you got your nineteen eleven, MP forty AR fifteen,
(25:05):
nineteen eleven. I love the nineteen eleven, but I keep
hearing people telling me, oh, it's old, it's out of date,
it's a fud gun. There's no it has no purpose.
I think, well, you know, I kind of like it.
I shoot it pretty well. What do you think.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
It's an enthusiast pistol? Now, okay, it means in order
to run in nineteen eleven, it's still relevant. But in
order to run in nineteen eleven, you have to raise
your game. You got to be a more doubt ind
than user. You can't be somebody that you know buys
a block and never loves it. All they do is
stuff in mo and they don't even think twice about
(25:39):
prevent a maintenance. They don't think twice about parts breakage,
none of that. You can't have that mentality with a
nineteen eleven or it's going to buy you. It's it's
a it's a pistol where you have to raise, you know,
your awareness game, the ability to diagnose what problems the
gun may have because remember, you know, almost every part
(25:59):
is fitted or can potentially be hand fitted on that gun.
We don't live in a day and age where you
have a lot of hand fitted parts on farms. You know,
as a general rule is exactly the opposite. You know,
parts are as understandably in this day and age, you
plug and play. You have a part that's broke, you
just put a new one you drive on. That isn't
really the case with a nineteen eleven.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
It's more it's more like driving a classic car.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Then yeah, one hundred percent. Well put yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
You got to take care of it right. You got
to know how to run it right, and if you do,
you can get a lot of pleasure out of it.
It'll work for you. But if you don't, like to say,
it's going to leave you on the side of the road.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, And it's one of those things where you go, hey,
I don't want to sign up for that, Well, then
you don't. You don't get a nineteen eleven.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
All right, talk to me about ars versus aks.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Well, here is I'm glad you brought that up because
I have a thing that I say, those who have
a choice use an AR, those who don't have a
choice using AKA.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
All right, what's that meaning?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Great gun, But as you become a more sophisticated shooter,
that's where you're going to gravitate towards an ALR just plain.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Simple would I've also had a thought when you go
around the world, if you get into a situation where
you're going to find a gun on the ground in
the middle of a melee, you better know how to
pick up and run and clear an AK because that's
probably what you're gonna find.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Well, yeah, one hundred, I totally agree. You need to
be able to run that gun. You need to be
able load and unloaded. You need to be able to
manipulate the safety. You need to be able to you know,
clear malfunctions, even though you know they rarely have them,
that's still feasible. And you need, you know, you need
to be able to run the gun. You don't have
to know all the ins and outs, but you need to.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Know how to run it all right, So right now,
I mean you've been involved with HK and the pistols
and the rifles and everything else. But any given day,
when you, you know, get ready for the day, what
is it that you would like to be putting on
your belt? Uh man y yeah, yeah, you sound like me.
(28:08):
It's like a problem is we have too many choices.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Oh, I know, I know a sophisticated end user is
going to gravitate towards you know, guns like the HKVP nine,
which is a really good gun. Accurate's got a good trigger, reliable,
They're really good. You know, it's not the gun for everybody.
I would say, the gun You're not gonna go wrong
(28:34):
with a Block nineteen specifically at Gen five or a
Gen five Block forty five, not to forty five ACP,
but you know Block forty.
Speaker 11 (28:43):
Five and nine million, yes, yeah, yeah, those two guns
you're you know, you could have I tell people you
could own ten guns or a thousand guns, and you'll
never regret owning one of.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Those two pistols. So if in doubt Gen five Block
nineteen or a you know, Block forty five the.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Model forty five, which is a nine millimeter Yeah, fine milimeter.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
And it's it's a Gen five. They only ever made
it in Gen five.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Right, Okay, So what are the things that people need
to work at going when they go to the range,
specifically for self defense training that people don't want to do.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Pre or control, you know, shooting groups. I see a
lot of people just want to go and shoot fast,
and it's it's a struggle to shoot a group. Put
a target, you know, indoor range, put a bull's eye
at seven or ten yards and work one shooting a group,
trying to keep them all in the ten ring. That
a lot of people don't want to go there. Tom.
They're just like, no, it's too hard. I just want
(29:43):
to have fun. I just want to launch bullets down range.
And actually it's counterproductive. You need it's crawl walk run,
and shooting groups is the crawl phase and you need
to build that up before you start walking or start running.
So that's the thing that most people don't want to do.
They find it boring, it's tedious, it's challenging, it's not fun,
(30:04):
and most people don't want to do it. Well.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
It also makes them look bad because they realize they're
not as good as they thought.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
That's you just set a mouthful though.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
You tell them, okay, I want you to put all
your shots to touch each other right there on that
little bity died over there, and they go what you go, Yeah,
no you should. No, it's a handgun. You can't do that.
Actually you can. And then of course you pick it
up and do it, and they go, oh, I guess
my my gun's actually better than I thought, and I'm
not as good as I thought.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah, yeah, sights are off or something wrong.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Oh yeah, I love that, don't you love the sights
are off. I keep shooting low and.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Left, shoot and left. That's right, yep, all.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Right, So you are, of course of the creator of
the vicar sling. Every long gun should have a sling, right.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Oh yeah, I would say one hundred percent right.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Somebody said the sling on a long gun is like
a holster for your handgun.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's a lot of truth in that.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
You let go of butt to go do something with
your hands. Where's your gun gonna go? Well, where's your
gun going? All right, Larry, We can't let you go
without talked about the big elephant in the room, which
is the legal issues you got yourself involved in. I'm
just gonna get out of the way and let you
describe what happened and where you are with it now.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Well, you know, I did stupid. I mean, it's just
that simple. I didn't feel like the laws and rules
applied to me, and I just kind of looked the
other way. I kind of, you know, took that attitude
of the British sas who dares wins, and I, you know,
I got nailed. You know, I imported some guns I
shouldn't have imported, and I kind of knew at the
(31:39):
time things were a little bit shady. I got hooked
up with an importer and I knew he was doing
some questionable stuff, but I looked the other way. I
was like, well, you know, at the end of the day,
I'm getting the guns for my collection that I want,
and so that's really what matters. Well, I got nailed,
So I did, you know, I used to say, and
I've said in the past, you know, people ask me, yeah,
(32:01):
I'm going in the military, my son's going in the military.
What should he you know, what should he focus on?
I said, stay healthy, stay focused, and stay out of trouble. Well,
I broke one of my you know, going roles, so
I didn't stay focused and I also didn't stay out
of trouble. So where does that that's done? It's still ongoing,
believe it or not. Really the stuff it's yeah, it's
(32:24):
not done yet. So I really can't talk a lot
of details. I can just basically own it and say
I was a moron. You know, It's that simple. But no,
it's not done yet. It's still you know, it's still ongoing.
You know, the government's taking their own sweet time sort
it all out, you know, and I'm basically playing the
waiting game, which is difficult sure, uh to do, it's
(32:46):
very stressful. I just have to start, you know. I
just have to try to stay focused on day to
day and uh and drive one.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
The flip side is Tom. You know, I have the
cancer survivor. I had the floydularoma started in twenty one
and I'm past it now. I've I've had very you know,
excellent chemo, excellent care here in Charlotte, North Carolina. It
really went well and it's in remission. So you know,
(33:14):
it's hard for me to go. I take that for granted.
I take the cancer part for again. Hey you know
I'm in remission. Everything's good to go. Why just turn
about a lady that had lymphoma and she it was
not treatable via chemo and she died within a year.
So what I've got going on, you know, when my
legal side of the house could become pretty minor, is
(33:37):
that cancer comes back. Yeah. It's all about perspective, because
it's like, oh, now I'm worried about you know, what
I got going on legally and what that. You know, Hell,
I'm not even be alive to face it, you know.
So I and everybody tells me that, you know, my
doctor and everybody's like, hey, you got to look at
the bright side here. You could be dead right now.
(33:59):
Cancer could have you know, and it happens to people
every day. I'll tell you something else in Delta. It's
sad to say. I friends of mine have had numerous
friends of mine that I served with that had cancer
and more than a few died from it.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
That that downward comparison and looking around and going, yeah,
you know, I'm really not so bad off here.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Oh it could be a lot worse. You know. It's
a challenge based on the legal situation I put myself in.
It's a challenge to stay positive. But you really got to,
you know, you kind of have to because you have
to be able to put it in perspective and say, hey,
you know, it could be a hell of a lot worse.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, And I mean, look, and in the meantime, you're
still doing a lot of stuff online. You're doing you know,
your your stuff with the guns and all. If people
want to keep up with me, what's the best way
for them to find you online?
Speaker 3 (34:50):
The Larry Vickers on Instagram, in Facebook is Larry Vickers
on Facebook. And I'm also on X I believe the
Larry Vickers on xor Larry Vickers I've got an it
or I yeah it guy who set all that up stair.
I'm still you know, and you're gonna appreciate this. I'm
still a little bit in the dark ages on some
(35:10):
of that stuff. You know we got, Like you mentioned,
the books, the books have been a grand slam home run.
We just brought out our volume four HK book. The books,
you know, on a scale one to ten have been
a fifteen.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Yeah. It's called the Vickers Guide series. The Vickers guide series. Guy,
it's amazing never and all you gotta do is google it.
He'll come right up. Vicker's Guide will come right up.
There you go, Larry. I am flat out of time
and this is way too much fun. We gotta do
it again.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Okay, yeah, one hundred per man anytime.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Sounds good. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
All right, Tom, have a good brother.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
You too. All right. Gun Talk will be right back.
Put all your gear on that you carry and then
roll around on the ground. Now, get up all your
gear that's on the ground. That's what you're not going
to have in a fight.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Gun Talk should be in your podcast feed. Check out
gun Talk Nation. What's it like to be blown up?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
You know?
Speaker 3 (36:01):
If it's like C four, it's almost like a smack hunting. Yeah,
we talk about that too.
Speaker 9 (36:06):
On your crosshairs, I like a thin crosshair.
Speaker 12 (36:09):
Ajay, you're really dating yourself by calling things crosshairs.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
You're redical whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Have some fun and stay informed with the gun Talk podcast.
Speaker 12 (36:19):
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(36:41):
Crimson Trace because failure is not an option.
Speaker 6 (36:47):
Looking for real talk about guns, gear and the shooting lifestyle,
then tune into gun Talk Nation. Each week, your host,
me Ryan Gresham sits down with industry insiders, trainers, and
everyday shooters to bring you the story, news insights you
won't hear anywhere else. Whether it's the latest innovations, pro
tips for the range, or the hot topics everyone's buzzing about,
(37:09):
you'll find it here. Subscribe now to gun Talk Nation,
available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 13 (37:20):
There's more to this world of guns than you realize.
Your entry to our world is a click away. At
gun talk dot com, stay informed and entertained on the
latest firearm related topics. Whether it's new guns, training tips, gunsmithing, competition, shooting,
self defense, or gun rights news, we cover it all.
(37:41):
Visit gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Well it appears online that I have irritated people by
supporting the NRA. People have said, oh yeah, no, no, no,
I'm not going to do that. I dropped out. Okay, great,
But you said I am out as long as Wayne
Lapierre is there. Okay, he's not there anymore. What's keeping
you from going back in? What's keeping you from supporting
(38:24):
the oldest it's still the largest gun rights group in
the country, which needs help fixing itself. Just just wondering,
trying to understand people said I'll be back when Wayne
is gone. He's now gone, and so are the other
(38:44):
people who are around him. Is it not time to
get off the sidelines to get back in the game. Yeah,
I know. We've so We've got GOA and Secondment Foundation
and FBC. They're all good, but none of them can
do what the NRA can do. My opinion, what's your take?
Eight sixt' six Talk Guns. If you want to be
(39:17):
part of the after show, give me a call right now,
Tom Talk Gun. We can talk about, well, whatever you
want to talk about. What's the movie? Last night? Saw
The Soul on Fire. It's very good, inspirational. It's one
of those reminders of sometimes little things you do can
make a real difference to people and I want to
say that just as a side note, can I suggest
(39:42):
that each day you try to find some way to
do something for somebody, simple as holding a door open
for somebody, saying hello, smiling, or stop and say hey,
can I help you with that? Can I can I
help you with those groceries and get them out to
the car for you something I don't know what it is.
We got to look for the opportunities. Sometimes it's requires
(40:04):
a little bit more effort on your part. Around here,
I'm used to stopping with somebody's on the side of
the road. Maybe they're taking pictures, maybe they're doing something,
or I stop and saying you guys, okay, everything, okay, yeah, okay,
all right, fine. I don't know what it will be.
You don't know what it will be, but at some
point it's in some way you might be able to
(40:25):
make a difference, small difference, big difference. The interesting part
is sometimes what you think is small turns out to
be big. Maybe you invite somebody to go to the
range with you, Maybe you get somebody into self defense
(40:46):
with guns. Maybe it ends up making a real difference
in somebody's life. Or maybe it's just hey, we went
out and had fun. We went to the range, we
shot some amo and had a good time. I am
actually went online this morning. I'm looking at a couple
of places. I'm going to go take a couple more classes. Yeah,
(41:07):
and I've taken classes everywhere, a lot of classes. Why
do I keep doing that? Well, first of all, I
do it because it's fun. Frankly. Number two is I
know that every day that goes by that I'll get
further away from taking a class, my skills deteriorate. I
can't get to the rains enough. I should, but I don't,
(41:32):
And so you're never as good as you were the
last day of the class. You're just you're going downhill.
So you've got to go back and recharge the battery,
if you will. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna
get down to range ready. I'm probably gonna go to
Gunside again because I like what they do. I like
the way they teach. Sick Academy is always there, ready
to go. Other places are available to you. I guess
(41:56):
I would just say, if you haven't done it, try it.
See what you think. I think you're gonna really enjoy it.
And once you do, if you go to a really
good school, you're probably gonna want to go back. I
have found that generally speaking, I'm gonna use a gun
sight as an example. When people go at the end
(42:17):
of the class, they immediately start trying to figure out
a way to get back. That certainly has been the
case that rains. Ready, how many times have we had
people call and say, yeah, I've been to four classes,
I've been to sick classes. I've been to nine classes
that range. Ready, I keep going back. And I asked, well,
why why do you keep going back? Sometimes? Well, you
know what they do, what I do, take the same
class over and over. Sometimes why is that? Well, one
(42:40):
it's fun, and two it's a refresher, and three they're
gonna say something in there. They're gonna show me something
that I didn't know, or maybe I knew and I forgot.
And frankly, if I come away with one good, solid
piece of information, one good skill that I picked up,
it was worthwhile, It was worth my time, it was
(43:03):
worth my money. So that's the way I look at it.
I just think that if you are if you decide
to carry a gun for self defense, or if you
have a gun at your home for self defense. You
have a responsibility to be competent with it, to be good,
not just adequate, but good with it. If you think
that's true, then you ow it to yourself and all
(43:25):
the people around you to get that training, to work
on it, and to keep your skills up at a
good level. That's my take on it. In the meantime,
get to the rains, Invite somebody to go with you,
have some fun out there. Hey, buy a new gun.
I love spending other people's money. That's a great week.
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