September 14, 2025 • 43 mins
In This Hour:
Guest host Ryan Gresham, with Chris Cerino and Kevin Jarnagin, welcome Kevin Michalowski from Concealed Carry Magazine.
Gun Talk 09.14.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Guest host Ryan Gresham, with Chris Cerino and Kevin Jarnagin, welcome Kevin Michalowski from Concealed Carry Magazine.
Gun Talk 09.14.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Ruger Sfaar is one of the trim is threeh
eight modern sporting rifles available more power but lighter in
the field and range. See how light it is at
Ruger dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey, welcome into gun Talk Coast to coast. For thirty years,
we've been talking about guns, and you're you're hearing this
on your radio, going what they're talking about guns on
the radio? Yeah, it's it's real life. This is really happening.
I'll be your host, Ryan Gresham, and if you've been listening,
we are filling in for Tom. Tom is off exploring
(00:37):
the world this week. But we got the gun Talk
crew here. We've got our crew here on the in
the studio, but also we've got some guests coming in
from from all over the country who can chime in
on things. Now. We recorded this a few days ago,
so if something is popped off in the last few
(00:57):
days and we're not talking about it, that's why we
record a few days ago, and if you want to
watch it, we are filming it and we're posting it
across the gun talk channels, Facebook, YouTube, x I guess
we don't call it Twitter anymore, and then Instagram all
these places and when the comments are rolling in and
you can be a part of the conversation, but you
(01:18):
can't call in today because we're not live, so I
apologize about that. But bringing into the show right now
one of our favorite people a guy who has been
down Arranged Ready Studios and been to gun Talk and
shot with us and trained with US. Kevin Mclowski from USCCA,
United States Concealed Carry Association.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Welcome in man, Hey, thanks for having me. Ryan, I'm
really happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So you are the editor in chief and your it
feels like they keep giving you more titles.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, well the official title is executive editor because I've
achieved that level of proficiency that I can now be
called an executive. But no, I I just sort of
help shepherd a team of great people. So it's it's
been a wonderful. It's coming up on almost fifteen years
now at the USCCA, so wow, been pretty good.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
And you're a guy who who loves to shoot, loves
to train former police officer, and I'm going to bring
in we have a couple of topics we're talking about
today that I think you're going to have some fun
with because you're a guy who who trains and shoots,
and you hear from your customers. I know you've got
you guys have all these members, and you hear from
(02:33):
people of what they carry and how they carry and
experience is doing it. One of the topics is besides
your gun, what do you carry every single day? Kind
of a little bit of an EBC pocket dump. So
is there anything strange for you that that people that
you carry every single day.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
It's one of those don't ever read the comments kind
of things because people people just go crazy and saying
I can't even I can't even get people to carry
a flashlight with them every day. You know, just a
little tactical flashlight. I carry a flashlight. But once they
start talking about it online, well, you know they're carrying
(03:17):
a flashlight and a tourniquet and chest seals and fifty
feet a pair of cord and stuff to make snares
and whatever they're going to need to you know that
they have their get home bag in their truck and
then there go bag in the in the trunk of
their wife's car or whatever.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
We literally have all of those comments.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, and it's I'm always doing it wrong, no matter
what I say. Whenever I do anything on social media
or in the magazine or something like that, we'll get,
you know, the letters to the editor that begin with
the I typically love your fine publication, however, and I'm like, okay,
here we go.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
They Yeah, if you're not fishing somebody off, you're not
doing it right.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I am really doing it right then, because I can
make a whole lot of people mad in really short order.
What I really want everyone to carry is your firearm,
maybe some extra AMMO, a flashlight.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
And I carry a.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Knife not because I'm going to use it as a
weapon or anything like that, because I'm going to use
it to open boxes, and because it is a tool
that every adult should carry and be proficient with. I
don't ever want to be in a knife fight. I
don't ever want to be in a gunfight. But I
even less want to be in a knife fight because
I've worked a lot with guys who are proficient at
knife fighting, and it just scares the crap out of them.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Every time you see a real proficient knife fighter guy,
it's like, oh my gosh, now that's you know, the
gun guys are scared of the knife guys. That's the
funny part. Now, I did have one here. I got
to read it to you because it made me laugh.
Jason on Facebook said, two knives, a tourniquit, and wait
for it, a ten ounce leather slapjack.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Well, I happen to own a beautiful one that I
bought from Andy's Leather. I don't carry it with me
every day, but it's just kind of cool to have.
And a lot of times, maybe you're gonna get caught
up in the situation where you don't know what to
grab first at what you have so many weapons on you,
(05:21):
which one are you going to grab first? And I
laugh about this, but people say, well, if you only
have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Well,
if you're only carrying your gun, then you know you're
only going to use it in a deadly forced situation,
and maybe you'll think about extricating yourself from the other situations.
Because I say all the time, the best fight is
(05:43):
the one you're not in. So if you want to
get close enough to hit somebody with your slapjack, that
that's I mean, you're.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Going to back. You know, like the eighteen hundreds, you
just go around slapping people. I mean, I know, a
slapjack would hurt like a lot, hurt a lot, but
it's just hilarious, Like the idea, like you're just gonna
start slapping people with this slapjack, is it? Do you
think it's possible that actually using a slapjack would be
(06:14):
problematic legally? Maybe more so than pepper spray or other things.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Absolutely, if you hit somebody in the head with your slapjack,
that's deadly force. That's potential to cause death or great
bodily harm. And if you're not facing an imminent threat
of deadly force, hitting somebody in the head is a
serious problem. Now, if you were targeting like upper arm
and upper leg and things like that, it's really going
(06:41):
to slow them down. It's going to make them pause
and think. And but again, it's like fighting with a knife.
You gotta be that close to that person and arms
reach plus the six inches of your slapjack, and then
you're gonna hit them. And it only takes one lucky
punch for someone to knock you unconscious and then beat
crap out of you with your own slapjack.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, that's the problem. Like, I mean, I know it
would hurt, but it doesn't mean that the guy that
you're slapjacking is going to stop doing what he's doing.
He may just get a hold of you and he's
a brown belt in jiu jitsu and he just chokes
you out. Yeah, but pop hitting me with that dan
weighted thing.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I saw a guy on the beach get put in
a rear naked choke by a police officer and the
guy decided he was going to tap out in the cups, Like, no,
just go sleep.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Sorry, buddy, you don't get to tap out now that
the hop they're trying to subdu you. But going back
to pepper spray, because I know you guys talk about
all types of use of force. I've kind of recently
in the last few years cotton around to like pepper
spray is kind of a nice option. And you know,
I think John Korea, our buddy John Korea say, it's
(07:51):
like it kind of is between like shooting someone and
just yelling at them, Like it kind of gives you options.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, And I like that. What I don't like are
any of these side effects that come with pepper spray.
I've been pepper sprayed five times. We will not talk
about that people. Yeah, and the side effects the oversprayed
pepper spray can cause problems for the user. But yeah,
(08:18):
if you get a good quality pepper spray, that is
a stream that's going to give you twelve to eighteen
feet of spray, You've got some distance you've got and
it hurts, It hurts bad. So yes, it will definitely
interrupt their activities. And you know, when we were in
the police force, you could use pepper spray against active
(08:40):
resistance or its threat. So that remember those words because
you're going to have to articulate that to the cops
when they say, why did you pepper spray the guy? Well,
he was threatening to do me harm and I know
that I can use pepper spray against active resistance or
its threat, and yeah, that will definitely change a bad
guy's attitude.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, you kind of alluded to it. You know, being
able to articulate what happened is important. You guys deal
with the legal aftermath a lot for your members. What
type of stuff have you heard from members lately? What
type of device needs to get out there? For people
who are carrying concealed First.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
And foremost is don't talk to the cops without a lawyer.
And that's you know, if you're involved in an incident,
the bare bones information, that's the person who attacked me.
There seems to be evidence over there, there's witnesses over there.
I want to talk to my attorney. Don't talk to
the cops without a lawyer because you're so stressed, there's
so much adrenaline and you're going to make a misstatement.
(09:45):
Sooner or later. You might forget where you were, you
might forget the sequence of something like that, and then
cops are going to think you were lying. And as
soon as you mess up and they think you're lying,
then you know, they go down that road, why are
you lying? Wait? You know, and remember if cops are
involved in a use of deadly force, they get forty
eight hours before they got to make a statement to
(10:06):
the investigators. They get that time to calm down. You
might have to spend that forty eight hours in jail,
but it's better than spending the rest of your life
in jail. So again, that's the primary is don't talk
to the cops until you have your lawyer there.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Just the basic information, well you mentioned like the whole
they might think you're lying something. The important to remember
is cops deal with a lot of bad guys and
bad people, and you might be one of the good guys,
but they don't know that, right, and they're kind of
it's like it perhaps get a little bit jaded, of like,
here's another dirt bag that I'm dealing with, and you're like,
(10:46):
but no, you don't understand I'm one of the good guys.
And they're like, yeah, prove it.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, everybody says that, And that's one of the things.
It's one of the reasons I kind of got done
with it, is I was getting that jaded. That's you know,
that cynicism. Everybody lies all the time, and yeah, when
cops show up at the scene, they don't have any information,
and you have information and you want to share that
(11:10):
and prove that you're innocent. Wait, just wait, talk to
your attorney first and make sure because every element of
this is being recorded, and like they say, it's going
to be used against you. And yeah, ideally, in the
real world you are innocent until proven guilty. But one
(11:31):
misstatement and it just becomes more and more difficult to
prove your innocence. And in effect, that's what you have
to do when you're dealing with police officers.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
You don't want to start with.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
But I can explain, Yeah, that's it's let me here here,
what happened was this? No, it's start you know. Typically
the evidence will help bear that out. Is the physical
evidence that the scene will help bear that out, and
others cameras everywhere. I live in a little town and
just the other day they found a runaway girl and
(12:02):
I didn't even know that they had this technology in
our town of five thousand people, real time cameras in
the downtown which using facial recognition, found the girl the
clothing she was wearing, and the cops went and picked
up immediately, just like that. So that's yeah, out there everywhere.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That's a really good point. You got to assume that
there are cameras everywhere and it could be helpful for
your case or you know, you got to know that
you're on camera pretty much anywhere you're out in public.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, do the right thing because somebody's watching.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
So we've got a couple discussion points. I told you
the one about what do you ever did carry besides
a gun? And we had all sorts of answers on
our social media. But the other one that we're throwing
out there is what gun used to be your go
to that you no longer carry anymore. So think about that,
(12:56):
because I think everybody has that. It's either like my
first gun or you know what has changed and why
has it changed in what you carry? And then also Kevin,
I know you guys hear from members all the time.
I mean, what lessons are we learning right now? What
are we what trends are we seeing. You have a
lot of people carrying because you've got more than half
(13:18):
the states you can carry without a permit now, so
which also means there's a lot more people carrying, a
lot more perhaps stories of things happening, so all stuff
that we're going to talk with you after the break.
We'll be back with more gun talk. I'm Brian Gresham
filling in for Tom. Be sure to check us out
on socials, Facebook, YouTube, x, go to guntalk dot com,
(13:43):
sign up for our email list, find out what's going
on and the special events we have going at our place.
We'll be right back.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
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Speaker 8 (15:58):
This is David Kodria Guns Notes from the Resistance. I
want to congratulate Tom Gresham for thirty consistent and information
packed years of gun Talk. Tom yours is an influential,
widely respective voice, and the information and insights you've regularly
given us over the decades have helped me and all
of us be better prepared and equipped in our efforts
(16:19):
to defend and promote the right of the people to
keep bare arms. So thank you, and here's to the
best being yet to come.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. Right now on the show,
we've got warmer buddies Kevin Mikalowski from USCCA United States
Concealed Carry Association, and we were just talking about what
is the gun that used to be your go to
that you no longer carry or use.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
And that's the direct question for me, and yes, career
prepared to gasp as I tell you that I have.
I have an unhealthy number of Glock nineteen pistols and
they now rest in boxes because I have just fallen
in love with the Springfield Armory echelon the four inch
(17:08):
barrel pistol. Really is that it feels better in my hand.
I like the options that it has with me. I
love the slide cuts, I love the adjustable backstraps. The
trigger press is really cool.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
None of my Block nineteen pistols are equipped with red
dot sites, and this echelon is cut for a red
dot and I've been running a red dot on it
and getting better and better shooting red dots. And I
just like the way the gun shoots. It feels great
in my hand. It I hit, It shoots better than
I deserve and and I get to shoot a lot,
(17:45):
so I shoot okay. But yeah, I shoot really good
with that schelo.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I don't think. I don't think as a gun guy,
you're allowed to say that. Kevin, You drop the Glock
nineteen to go to a different platform. The echelon. It
really is a great platform, and you're saying that you
all are running it with a red dot now right, yes, yeah,
we may have to have you call Chris Srino and
have an intervention about this, because he is gonna be like,
(18:10):
from my cold dead hands, I am, I'm not gonna
put a red dot on my pistol.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Huh. Well, you know some people, some people are just
difficult to get along.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
With, and you know, well, you know that's great.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I was that way up until I went to a
training class with Dave Spalding and he showed me how
to properly use a red dot. And suddenly the dot
was no longer zipping through the screen and it was working,
and suddenly I was shooting faster and straighter than I
had shot before.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
They're kind of a thing. Yeah, they're catching on. Yeah,
now I teased it before we went to break. You
guys have hundreds of thousands of members of u s CCA,
and you hear from them. What are you guys hearing
these days? What types of Is there a trend of
what's hap happening out there with so many people carrying.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
Lately?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
What I've been hearing most about is that we're finally
getting through to people that caliber doesn't matter. Shot placement
is the most important thing. And you know what, We've
argued forever and ever and ever, you know what is
a suitable caliber for self defense? And people will say
nothing smaller than a three eighty, and that's fine, go ahead.
(19:25):
But I'm one of those rule number one guys, which
is have a gun, a gun that you can put
on target. So people are talking about using things like
the thirty two h and R and three eighty caliber pistols,
which are now becoming better and nicer and easier to shoot.
I mean, some of those tiny three eighties were just
painting the butts shoot. And yeah, people are understanding that
(19:50):
your gun does not have to have a caliber that
begins with a four.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
You know, no what you have to urge and carry
forty five because they don't make a forty six. We've
been talking about that actually a little bit on the
show today, and some of the people did respond that
the gun they used to carry was something smaller. It
was a three eighty, but now I went to a
nine because it's more power. And then you have the
flip side of it. I used to carry a forty
(20:14):
and now I carry a nine because it's so much
easier to shoot.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
What do you think, Yeah, and it a nine is
easier to shoot than a forty, and a smaller caliber
is easier to shoot than a bigger caliber. What's important
to me is a gun that's comfortable on your hip
or wherever you're carrying it, and it's comfortable in your hand,
so you will shoot it a lot and train, and
then you put the front sight on the bad guy
and you shoot the bad guy a lot until he stops,
(20:40):
and that's it. And no caliber, you know, three fifty
seven sig or three fifty seven magnum or whatever, No
caliber is going to give you that lightning bolt stop
unless you hit the central nervous system. So get really
good at hitting that small little band and shut the
guy off. But Yeah's that's what I've been hearing more
(21:00):
and more is people are getting away from I got
to have the biggest gun to I got to be
able to shoot better. And I love seeing that. I
love seeing people trained and practice and understand what they
can and can't do.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And you guys offer a lot of training, and you're
a guy who trains, what should the expectation be for
someone carrying as far as how quickly do they need
to put shots on target and what type of accuracy
should they be expecting from themselves.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I would love to see everybody who carries a gun
to be able to draw from concealment and hit a
four x six target in two seconds with two shots,
but one shot at least, then you're getting that first
accurate shot on target, and that's going to make the
bad guy at least pause for a moment and think, oh,
that hurts and burns. I should do something different. But
(21:49):
if you can come from your holster to the target
in two seconds and a four x six card, some
people will say three y five carden, Chris Serino will
shoot a plane card and hal and do all kind
o stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
You gotta you gotta be able to train, You gotta
be able to hit the bad guy. Kevin, thanks for
you being on with us USCCA. Go check him out
off with a lot of training. We'll be right back. Hey,
welcome back to Gun Talk today on the show. I'm
(22:21):
filling in. I'm Ryan Gresham and we don't have Tom
He's off, you know, just doing escapades around the world
or something. I don't know. What he's doing, we don't
really know. But we have our team here in the studio.
We brought back Chris Serino, Kevin Jarnagan. What'd you think
we we had Jason and we had Kevin Mkalowski on.
(22:45):
Those guys are great, huh.
Speaker 9 (22:47):
I I never really left. I listened to the whole thing,
and I think they're fantastic. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I
could listen to Jason talk about stuff. He's he just
knows so much about guns and the ends and out
in the sales. Number one takeaway for me with him
was listen, guys, you're out there, you're listening, or you're
(23:10):
watching lipsies dot com.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Just go to that, find what you want.
Speaker 9 (23:18):
Talk to your gun dealers and tell them, hey, just
call lipsies and get it for me.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Get it.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Just worth the day. And of course I want you
to sell you this Browning ex bolt because that's what
I have in stock.
Speaker 10 (23:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Well, that's cool.
Speaker 9 (23:32):
But you know, my takeaway with Kevin always is he
is so smart. He's one of the funniest, smartest guys
I know. I've known him for so many years. He
used to work with him. And you write for U. S. C.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
C A.
Speaker 9 (23:44):
So you know, we got to spend some time together
really enjoy him.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Jason did fill us in on I knew he would know.
I knew he would know carry gun that has a
grip safety and no thumb safety shield easy?
Speaker 4 (24:00):
How did he not remember it a good one? How
did we not remember that?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And you know, the shield easy? When they brought it
out in three eighty, we were doing some videos about it.
I'm shooting this thing. I just it was so stupid
because I just kept going, man, this thing really is
easy to run, easy to shoot. I'm going, yeah, they
see what we did there? Yeah, that's why we named
it that. I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel like
(24:24):
but in fact, boy, not a tiny three eighty kind
of a small but not not subcompact, not pocket gun,
great to shoot, fun to shoot, full relatively full sized gun,
a great gun to teach people on too, And I
wanted to bring that up. So this past weekend I
(24:44):
was telling you guys a little bit. I had some
friends out to the range here, a buddy and his
wife and his brother, and we're kind of shooting some guns.
So the funniest thing that happened was he said he
wanted to shoot his carry gun that he has been
carrying for several years, has a red dot on it,
and he's shooting it and he's doing fine, but he's
(25:06):
a little bit all over the place, but he doesn't
shoot a lot. And I mentioned something about, you know,
making sure that the red dot sided into kind of
to where you're shooting, and he goes, you you have
to site those in.
Speaker 8 (25:21):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
He has been carrying this gun with a red dot
on it with confidence for years and he had never
sighted in the red dot.
Speaker 9 (25:30):
Chris Well, I mean, it's amazing what people don't know.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
Ryan.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
I called you yesterday. I told you this little.
Speaker 9 (25:42):
Story about a conversation I had with a future student.
I mean, it's amazing what people don't know until they
hear it from your mouth, Like you know, I.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Know this, do you well?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And it's not picking on him. But luckily the red
dot wasn't that far off, but it was definitely not
sighted in. He was lucky and it was it was
a little bit off where he could he could still
hit targets and stuff. But it's just funny, like we
take that for granted because it comes as a package
on that he brought this as a package on the gun.
Of course, red dots already mounted on the gun. It's
(26:17):
ready to go, right, and so so people listening. Yes,
there are a lot of pistols being sold with red
dots that are already on them, but yes, you do
need to side it in.
Speaker 9 (26:29):
Well, I just like hunting packages, right, Kevin. They sell
every once in a while, you'll get a rifle with
an optic and the whole type of thing.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Right.
Speaker 11 (26:36):
I've never bought one of those, but you're correct, Yes
you do get those. But like I kind of treat
I don't know. I guess they're kind of the same
because every time you go out and I use a
hunting gun, I'm sighting.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It in every time, well every single time.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
But here's here's what you're missing, my good friend. Yes,
I just.
Speaker 9 (26:56):
Most people don't shoot well enough to notice a difference.
You're right, Yeah, so there's that thing. It's like, okay,
so yeah, I'm hitting all this. It's like, yeah, look
at him, I'm hitting everything. I mean, I hit the target.
But they haven't trained with me or trained with somebody
to say, you know, you could do so much better.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Well, that's why I asked Kevin, what is that? What
should the expectation be? He said, drawing from concealment and
hitting a four by six inch square twice in two seconds,
that's a standard that he would like to see people doing. Now, Chris,
how many people do you think can do that? Right now?
(27:37):
People who carry.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
I don't know if I can do that?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Cold, Yeah, that's easy.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
I mean, let's let's be honest.
Speaker 11 (27:45):
Yeah, kJ I don't think, not right now, cold, I don't.
I definitely don't think I could do that.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
I mean, that's that's with.
Speaker 9 (27:51):
My gun in the exact right position in my appendix spot.
And I haven't sloughed around in a flat rang standing
out of range, not shooting back, you know, and and
uh and my belt hasn't jostled my gun just right. Listen, man,
if you if you get in that type of situation.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
You're you're in trouble. You're you're shot trouble.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Your accuracy is is going to go down, not up.
Speaker 9 (28:21):
Verbal skills, verbal judo, creating distance, disengaging number one.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Be observant.
Speaker 11 (28:28):
I know you want to say, I want to say something,
but you just keep shanghai you ahead, Chris can Chris
can do this cold. Yeah, he's being very humul good
at the shooting. Yeah, because he he is on the
trigger every day, sure, and and he's ready for it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Those people aren't. I mean the other thing is you're
kind just taking the taking them out. His wife had
never shot a pistol before. I think he wanted to
give her his carry gun his eye. I said, no, no,
we got I grabbed a cig three twenty two out
and we shot that and she had fun with it.
She did fine, she shot really well with it. But
(29:06):
whenever you can someone who's never shot a pistol before,
please please please give them a twenty two to start. You,
don't you agree? Something really small?
Speaker 9 (29:15):
Yeah, I like it twenty two and I like, yeah, suot,
you're one hundred percent right.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
You gotta feel that recoil.
Speaker 8 (29:21):
I like.
Speaker 9 (29:22):
I like something that's a fuller size twenty two. The Rugers,
the Smithton Wesson's, the the sig sours.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Yeah, I know I have there, Walters got one, and
this is really big. It's just stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Well, and you know, when you it's a fun thing
to take people out shooting, but you got to start
in the right way and have some fun doing it.
We'll be right back with we're gun Talking.
Speaker 10 (29:49):
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Speaker 2 (31:54):
And we were back with gun Talk. Thanks for listening,
and if you're listening to this, we air on about
two hundred and seventy radio stations around the country. Do
us a favor. Thank your radio stations for airing gun Talk.
It's not a given that they keep running us, you know,
but let them know that you're listening, because like, oh dang,
(32:16):
somebody is listening to this show. And I'll say this,
if you're a local business that advertises maybe you know,
throw them a little throwing a bone there. I'm Ryan Gresham,
I'm filling in for Tom Gresham, and we got our
gun Talk team here. Kevin Jarnagan kJ formerly flat BRIMKJ.
His brim is curved today what they want. We are filmed,
(32:40):
so if you want to go see it in person
in real life, you can watch it on the gun
talk channels. Chris Serino is here. We're talking about taking
people out to the range and some new people shooting,
and I'll throw you another one that. So we were
siding in kind of reconfirming zero on one of my
buddy's rifles. It's a six'. Five it has a. Suppressor nice,
(33:02):
gun just fine tuned, it no big. Deal his brother
had a thirty out, six no, suppressor that had never
been sided. In, like, yeah we'll get it sided. In.
Boy not that a thirty out six is known for
being heavy, recoil but when you're shooting a six y
five creed. More the six y five need more with
(33:23):
a suppressor on. It it's just. Pleasant it's one of the
reasons that's so popular thirty out SIX. kJ i was, like,
whoa we're shooting a man's.
Speaker 11 (33:30):
Gun, now, yeah it's all, there like you're getting all
the grains.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And that's you, know when you start like.
Speaker 11 (33:37):
Transitioning from a gun that doesn't kick a lot a
lot of recoil to a bigger, gun you really find
out quick like your little discrepancies in trigger press and your. Fundamentals,
yeah AND i know that's What chris is big, about is,
Fundamentals like if you don't have them in, place when
you start shooting those bigger, guns the guns that you're
(33:59):
not used, to it exposes a lot of the.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Flaws, yeah for. Sure, well and the other part IS i, said,
well let me shoot, it BECAUSE i didn't. KNOW i
don't think he was like real familiar with the. Gun
and you, know it's. Hot we're just wearing A t.
Shirt there's zero, padding AND i, mean you, Know i'm
not Saying I'M i couldn't handle, it but it was
noticeable in the recoil of, going oh, yeah this is
(34:24):
kind of like back in the. Day and it's also
a reason why when we said shooting a twenty two
is a great place to start with a pistol a new.
Shooter don't give him that thirty out, six, Right.
Speaker 9 (34:35):
Chris, well the problem is eventually you got to get
there and you'll take a lot for, Granted like we're
taking things for granted now with the six or. Five
needs more in the suppressors and things we, do and
then we get on another gun and we're.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Like holy, moly because we shot.
Speaker 9 (34:52):
Didn't we just shoot one the other, day maybe last,
month that didn't have your dad's and it didn't have a,
Break it DIDN'T i have.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Anything it was what kind of? Gun was?
Speaker 11 (35:02):
It three hundred And winchester short mag with.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Them so we shot.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
It and now NOW i can do all that.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
STUFF i shoot.
Speaker 9 (35:13):
People's guns all the. Time they want me to verify.
It they're, like, hey is this thing? Zero can you
help me? Zero AND i can do it AND i
can tough it out just like we did For loverfest
with all the. Seventies but it takes every fiber of
my being to not get, flinchy to Get winsey to
blink my eyes, shouldn't to pruss.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
The trigger and.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
Correctly it takes Every how DO i do? IT i don't,
know all, right BECAUSE i know.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
So chris kJ we. Are we are in the middle Of,
september and this is the season of everybody goes to
the range to side in their hunting guns and make
sure it's. Zeroed and it's the you, know it's the
five shots they shoot a year through their gun to
make sure but tips on siding, in BECAUSE i, mean
(36:04):
it was like my buddy was siding in AND i
was kind of trying to help him just get more
accurate from the, bench because it's not just about flopping
the gun, down and it's certainly not about leaning the gun
against the hood of a, truck but certainly that's a
way to do. It, chris what are a couple tips
you have for people when they're sighting their guns getting
ready for the.
Speaker 9 (36:23):
Season i'm gonna give you my high points and Then
i'm gonna defer To casey.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Does a lot of this. Stuff but if, listen.
Speaker 9 (36:31):
If you're just trying to get zero and make sure
the gun is, On, yes use a. Bench bag, it
get your bags, out, really nest that gun, in get
down on. It shoot from as low as you can
on the. Bench because when you shoot on that, bench
my terminology is you want to melt into the. BENCH
(36:52):
i want my ribs, touching my, arm, touching my, triceps,
touching my elbows. TOUCHING i want my feet firmly planted
on the. GROUND i want to melt is slump into
that gun and be as comfortable as.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Possible you're not balancing anything or holding anything up and
WAY i kind of tried to describe it to him
a little bit was, like you should just be looking
through the scope and the crosshairs are just sitting on the.
Bullseye you shouldn't be having to fight. ANYTHING. kJ WHAT
i want to know is a perfect. World in a perfect, WORLD,
kJ WHAT i want to know is bench or.
Speaker 11 (37:26):
PRONE M i love prone BECAUSE i can melt into
the earth like THE i.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
CAN i know that bench is not going to.
Speaker 8 (37:34):
MOVE i can.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Completely next and. Stuff, yeah that's what.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Kills that's the.
Speaker 11 (37:38):
Problem and that's WHY i think you're training outside before
you get to the range is just as important as
when you get to the, range because then you know
that trigger, press you know what that trigger is going to,
do you know what the gun's going to. Do you're
shooting positionally in your dry fire, practice so you're going
off of a ladder or off of a chair with a,
bag and you're you're getting used to those positions and
(37:59):
you're getting down into prone and stuff like. That so
a lot of it would comes for siding in before the.
Speaker 9 (38:05):
Shot I'm i'm gonna add one thing to mine into all. This,
yes when you get to the, bench when you get
to the. Bench don't just go right to. Shooting, oh
do it on a day when it's not too, hot
not too, cold not too.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Hopefully you can get in that Windy do it.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
When you're not in a.
Speaker 9 (38:24):
Hurry, yes and press the trigger several times dry fight
on the bench because we see a lot in.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
That don't at your best grigger press, YEAH i mean
this Is this will save you. Time this will save you.
Ammo and if you do it, right you know your guns.
On because confidence is such a big deal when you're
out in the. Field if you have doubts about where
your gun is sighted, in you're not really sure and you're,
THINKING i don't, know DID i hold? It DID i
(38:54):
sid it? In two inches? High one? Hundred but figure
all that out before you get into the. Field we'll
talk about that and much more when we get back
with more gun. Talk all, right welcome back to Gun.
Talk Ryan gresh from filling in For Tom gresham this,
(39:16):
week and we've Got Kevin Jarnigan Chris rino in studio
with us right. Now all, right, guys there's a video
going around on the internet about this guy and there's
the video is wild and if you haven't seen. It
you need to go online and just look. Up like
man shoots bear in. House, okay a. Bear this is the.
(39:39):
Video i'm gonna lay it out for people who haven't
seen the. Video it's like night. Vision he's got security.
Cameras he's creeping down the hallway with his ar with
a light on, it and a bear charges him down
the hallway and he shoots seven times and drops this
black bear that was in his. HOUSE i know you
(39:59):
guys saw the. VIDEO i mean kJ this guy was.
Speaker 11 (40:03):
Ready he has played that scene out in his mind countless.
Times he was fallless in his execution of.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
IT i might have done a few.
Speaker 11 (40:15):
Things, different but like WHAT i, like because he came
downstairs and he was on THE i would have probably
sat on the banister and like scoped it out because
it almost looked like he had nods.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
On, well he was working his. WAY i know there's
a lot of what it.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
Though we can't see. Everything you can't see.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Everything, well let me tell you. Now the videos come
out where he's answering questions because he says people are,
like wait a, minute did he know it was a?
Bear he, goes, NO i didn't know it was a.
Bear he just heard something in his house and it
was an Ar it was. Suppressed it wasn't eleven Inch,
guysley this this guy is, like oh, okay this guy
(40:57):
is a real gun guy who was prepared and. Ready
and it was a two, two two three five five six.
Gun seven shots into a. BlackBerry it.
Speaker 11 (41:07):
Dropped, yeah it'll it will do. IT i, mean you
pump enough lead in there and they're gonna shut.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Down.
Speaker 9 (41:13):
YEAH i think he was obviously facing. Him he did
it very. Quickly from WHAT i, saw he executed. Perfectly
he did go in.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
And get very very close to the very very close
to The, yeah down to.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Him he came down.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Stairs you were, right you ain't down the.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Stairs he.
Speaker 11 (41:33):
Did BUT i mean to have, that that's the kind
of nerve you need if you're going to be carrying
a gun every day or protect. Yourself that's the kind
of nerve you need when you're face to face with a.
Threat you've got to have the nerve. That he didn't back.
Down he didn't play. Peekaboo he went in and he
confronted what he.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Needed no.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Hesitation But, chris But, chris not it an a lean.
Gun you're gonna lose all these. Ballistics you're gonna lose
on the. BULLET i guess it didn't matter at seven.
Speaker 9 (42:03):
Feet, well he was Using hornity critical defense he, was
which is probably designed for shorter barrel.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Rifles, yeah opened up. Quickly.
Speaker 9 (42:13):
Probably, Yeah so you know you've got to factor all those.
Things and plus he was very very close BECAUSE i
know at twenty five yards special great steel is no
match for an eleven inch.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Ar it won't even dimple.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
It. Yeah, well there's it's very unlikely that you're going
to have a bear home intruder in your, house but
the chances are not. Zero are You are you ready
with your home defense gun for the bear?
Speaker 11 (42:38):
Intruders, well we all picture what are our situation that
home is going to. Be and for, HIM i, THINK i,
mean he had to have been prepared because it looked
like wherever he was, from he was In MOUNTAINOUS i think,
YEAH i think.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
He was, yeah out west. Northwest, Now, chris you keep,
bees SO i mean, HONEY i mean there could be an.
Issue we could this could be you next.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
Week, yeah my bee's are one hundred yards from the.
House but, HEY i still store honey in the house and.
There then we do have black.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Bears now he's baiting there are there's a. Season there's
a season In louisiana for black. Bears all, right aar
versus a black, bearry it will. Work after the, break
we're gonna be talking thermal optics with a guy who really,
knows because what do you need to know about thermal.
Optics they're, ACCESSIBLE a lot of people are using them these,
(43:32):
days and it's one of the most fun ways to.
Hunt i'm telling, you stay. Tuned will be right back
with more gun. Cops
The Ruger Sfaar is one of the trim is threeh
eight modern sporting rifles available more power but lighter in
the field and range. See how light it is at
Ruger dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey, welcome into gun Talk Coast to coast. For thirty years,
we've been talking about guns, and you're you're hearing this
on your radio, going what they're talking about guns on
the radio? Yeah, it's it's real life. This is really happening.
I'll be your host, Ryan Gresham, and if you've been listening,
we are filling in for Tom. Tom is off exploring
(00:37):
the world this week. But we got the gun Talk
crew here. We've got our crew here on the in
the studio, but also we've got some guests coming in
from from all over the country who can chime in
on things. Now. We recorded this a few days ago,
so if something is popped off in the last few
(00:57):
days and we're not talking about it, that's why we
record a few days ago, and if you want to
watch it, we are filming it and we're posting it
across the gun talk channels, Facebook, YouTube, x I guess
we don't call it Twitter anymore, and then Instagram all
these places and when the comments are rolling in and
you can be a part of the conversation, but you
(01:18):
can't call in today because we're not live, so I
apologize about that. But bringing into the show right now
one of our favorite people a guy who has been
down Arranged Ready Studios and been to gun Talk and
shot with us and trained with US. Kevin Mclowski from USCCA,
United States Concealed Carry Association.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Welcome in man, Hey, thanks for having me. Ryan, I'm
really happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So you are the editor in chief and your it
feels like they keep giving you more titles.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, well the official title is executive editor because I've
achieved that level of proficiency that I can now be
called an executive. But no, I I just sort of
help shepherd a team of great people. So it's it's
been a wonderful. It's coming up on almost fifteen years
now at the USCCA, so wow, been pretty good.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
And you're a guy who who loves to shoot, loves
to train former police officer, and I'm going to bring
in we have a couple of topics we're talking about
today that I think you're going to have some fun
with because you're a guy who who trains and shoots,
and you hear from your customers. I know you've got
you guys have all these members, and you hear from
(02:33):
people of what they carry and how they carry and
experience is doing it. One of the topics is besides
your gun, what do you carry every single day? Kind
of a little bit of an EBC pocket dump. So
is there anything strange for you that that people that
you carry every single day.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
It's one of those don't ever read the comments kind
of things because people people just go crazy and saying
I can't even I can't even get people to carry
a flashlight with them every day. You know, just a
little tactical flashlight. I carry a flashlight. But once they
start talking about it online, well, you know they're carrying
(03:17):
a flashlight and a tourniquet and chest seals and fifty
feet a pair of cord and stuff to make snares
and whatever they're going to need to you know that
they have their get home bag in their truck and
then there go bag in the in the trunk of
their wife's car or whatever.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
We literally have all of those comments.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, and it's I'm always doing it wrong, no matter
what I say. Whenever I do anything on social media
or in the magazine or something like that, we'll get,
you know, the letters to the editor that begin with
the I typically love your fine publication, however, and I'm like, okay,
here we go.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
They Yeah, if you're not fishing somebody off, you're not
doing it right.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I am really doing it right then, because I can
make a whole lot of people mad in really short order.
What I really want everyone to carry is your firearm,
maybe some extra AMMO, a flashlight.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
And I carry a.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Knife not because I'm going to use it as a
weapon or anything like that, because I'm going to use
it to open boxes, and because it is a tool
that every adult should carry and be proficient with. I
don't ever want to be in a knife fight. I
don't ever want to be in a gunfight. But I
even less want to be in a knife fight because
I've worked a lot with guys who are proficient at
knife fighting, and it just scares the crap out of them.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Every time you see a real proficient knife fighter guy,
it's like, oh my gosh, now that's you know, the
gun guys are scared of the knife guys. That's the
funny part. Now, I did have one here. I got
to read it to you because it made me laugh.
Jason on Facebook said, two knives, a tourniquit, and wait
for it, a ten ounce leather slapjack.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Well, I happen to own a beautiful one that I
bought from Andy's Leather. I don't carry it with me
every day, but it's just kind of cool to have.
And a lot of times, maybe you're gonna get caught
up in the situation where you don't know what to
grab first at what you have so many weapons on you,
(05:21):
which one are you going to grab first? And I
laugh about this, but people say, well, if you only
have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Well,
if you're only carrying your gun, then you know you're
only going to use it in a deadly forced situation,
and maybe you'll think about extricating yourself from the other situations.
Because I say all the time, the best fight is
(05:43):
the one you're not in. So if you want to
get close enough to hit somebody with your slapjack, that
that's I mean, you're.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Going to back. You know, like the eighteen hundreds, you
just go around slapping people. I mean, I know, a
slapjack would hurt like a lot, hurt a lot, but
it's just hilarious, Like the idea, like you're just gonna
start slapping people with this slapjack, is it? Do you
think it's possible that actually using a slapjack would be
(06:14):
problematic legally? Maybe more so than pepper spray or other things.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Absolutely, if you hit somebody in the head with your slapjack,
that's deadly force. That's potential to cause death or great
bodily harm. And if you're not facing an imminent threat
of deadly force, hitting somebody in the head is a
serious problem. Now, if you were targeting like upper arm
and upper leg and things like that, it's really going
(06:41):
to slow them down. It's going to make them pause
and think. And but again, it's like fighting with a knife.
You gotta be that close to that person and arms
reach plus the six inches of your slapjack, and then
you're gonna hit them. And it only takes one lucky
punch for someone to knock you unconscious and then beat
crap out of you with your own slapjack.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, that's the problem. Like, I mean, I know it
would hurt, but it doesn't mean that the guy that
you're slapjacking is going to stop doing what he's doing.
He may just get a hold of you and he's
a brown belt in jiu jitsu and he just chokes
you out. Yeah, but pop hitting me with that dan
weighted thing.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I saw a guy on the beach get put in
a rear naked choke by a police officer and the
guy decided he was going to tap out in the cups, Like, no,
just go sleep.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Sorry, buddy, you don't get to tap out now that
the hop they're trying to subdu you. But going back
to pepper spray, because I know you guys talk about
all types of use of force. I've kind of recently
in the last few years cotton around to like pepper
spray is kind of a nice option. And you know,
I think John Korea, our buddy John Korea say, it's
(07:51):
like it kind of is between like shooting someone and
just yelling at them, Like it kind of gives you options.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, And I like that. What I don't like are
any of these side effects that come with pepper spray.
I've been pepper sprayed five times. We will not talk
about that people. Yeah, and the side effects the oversprayed
pepper spray can cause problems for the user. But yeah,
(08:18):
if you get a good quality pepper spray, that is
a stream that's going to give you twelve to eighteen
feet of spray, You've got some distance you've got and
it hurts, It hurts bad. So yes, it will definitely
interrupt their activities. And you know, when we were in
the police force, you could use pepper spray against active
(08:40):
resistance or its threat. So that remember those words because
you're going to have to articulate that to the cops
when they say, why did you pepper spray the guy? Well,
he was threatening to do me harm and I know
that I can use pepper spray against active resistance or
its threat, and yeah, that will definitely change a bad
guy's attitude.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, you kind of alluded to it. You know, being
able to articulate what happened is important. You guys deal
with the legal aftermath a lot for your members. What
type of stuff have you heard from members lately? What
type of device needs to get out there? For people
who are carrying concealed First.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
And foremost is don't talk to the cops without a lawyer.
And that's you know, if you're involved in an incident,
the bare bones information, that's the person who attacked me.
There seems to be evidence over there, there's witnesses over there.
I want to talk to my attorney. Don't talk to
the cops without a lawyer because you're so stressed, there's
so much adrenaline and you're going to make a misstatement.
(09:45):
Sooner or later. You might forget where you were, you
might forget the sequence of something like that, and then
cops are going to think you were lying. And as
soon as you mess up and they think you're lying,
then you know, they go down that road, why are
you lying? Wait? You know, and remember if cops are
involved in a use of deadly force, they get forty
eight hours before they got to make a statement to
(10:06):
the investigators. They get that time to calm down. You
might have to spend that forty eight hours in jail,
but it's better than spending the rest of your life
in jail. So again, that's the primary is don't talk
to the cops until you have your lawyer there.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Just the basic information, well you mentioned like the whole
they might think you're lying something. The important to remember
is cops deal with a lot of bad guys and
bad people, and you might be one of the good guys,
but they don't know that, right, and they're kind of
it's like it perhaps get a little bit jaded, of like,
here's another dirt bag that I'm dealing with, and you're like,
(10:46):
but no, you don't understand I'm one of the good guys.
And they're like, yeah, prove it.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, everybody says that, And that's one of the things.
It's one of the reasons I kind of got done
with it, is I was getting that jaded. That's you know,
that cynicism. Everybody lies all the time, and yeah, when
cops show up at the scene, they don't have any information,
and you have information and you want to share that
(11:10):
and prove that you're innocent. Wait, just wait, talk to
your attorney first and make sure because every element of
this is being recorded, and like they say, it's going
to be used against you. And yeah, ideally, in the
real world you are innocent until proven guilty. But one
(11:31):
misstatement and it just becomes more and more difficult to
prove your innocence. And in effect, that's what you have
to do when you're dealing with police officers.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
You don't want to start with.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
But I can explain, Yeah, that's it's let me here here,
what happened was this? No, it's start you know. Typically
the evidence will help bear that out. Is the physical
evidence that the scene will help bear that out, and
others cameras everywhere. I live in a little town and
just the other day they found a runaway girl and
(12:02):
I didn't even know that they had this technology in
our town of five thousand people, real time cameras in
the downtown which using facial recognition, found the girl the
clothing she was wearing, and the cops went and picked
up immediately, just like that. So that's yeah, out there everywhere.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That's a really good point. You got to assume that
there are cameras everywhere and it could be helpful for
your case or you know, you got to know that
you're on camera pretty much anywhere you're out in public.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, do the right thing because somebody's watching.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
So we've got a couple discussion points. I told you
the one about what do you ever did carry besides
a gun? And we had all sorts of answers on
our social media. But the other one that we're throwing
out there is what gun used to be your go
to that you no longer carry anymore. So think about that,
(12:56):
because I think everybody has that. It's either like my
first gun or you know what has changed and why
has it changed in what you carry? And then also Kevin,
I know you guys hear from members all the time.
I mean, what lessons are we learning right now? What
are we what trends are we seeing. You have a
lot of people carrying because you've got more than half
(13:18):
the states you can carry without a permit now, so
which also means there's a lot more people carrying, a
lot more perhaps stories of things happening, so all stuff
that we're going to talk with you after the break.
We'll be back with more gun talk. I'm Brian Gresham
filling in for Tom. Be sure to check us out
on socials, Facebook, YouTube, x, go to guntalk dot com,
(13:43):
sign up for our email list, find out what's going
on and the special events we have going at our place.
We'll be right back.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
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Speaker 7 (15:22):
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Speaker 8 (15:58):
This is David Kodria Guns Notes from the Resistance. I
want to congratulate Tom Gresham for thirty consistent and information
packed years of gun Talk. Tom yours is an influential,
widely respective voice, and the information and insights you've regularly
given us over the decades have helped me and all
of us be better prepared and equipped in our efforts
(16:19):
to defend and promote the right of the people to
keep bare arms. So thank you, and here's to the
best being yet to come.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. Right now on the show,
we've got warmer buddies Kevin Mikalowski from USCCA United States
Concealed Carry Association, and we were just talking about what
is the gun that used to be your go to
that you no longer carry or use.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
And that's the direct question for me, and yes, career
prepared to gasp as I tell you that I have.
I have an unhealthy number of Glock nineteen pistols and
they now rest in boxes because I have just fallen
in love with the Springfield Armory echelon the four inch
(17:08):
barrel pistol. Really is that it feels better in my hand.
I like the options that it has with me. I
love the slide cuts, I love the adjustable backstraps. The
trigger press is really cool.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
None of my Block nineteen pistols are equipped with red
dot sites, and this echelon is cut for a red
dot and I've been running a red dot on it
and getting better and better shooting red dots. And I
just like the way the gun shoots. It feels great
in my hand. It I hit, It shoots better than
I deserve and and I get to shoot a lot,
(17:45):
so I shoot okay. But yeah, I shoot really good
with that schelo.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I don't think. I don't think as a gun guy,
you're allowed to say that. Kevin, You drop the Glock
nineteen to go to a different platform. The echelon. It
really is a great platform, and you're saying that you
all are running it with a red dot now right, yes, yeah,
we may have to have you call Chris Srino and
have an intervention about this, because he is gonna be like,
(18:10):
from my cold dead hands, I am, I'm not gonna
put a red dot on my pistol.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Huh. Well, you know some people, some people are just
difficult to get along.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
With, and you know, well, you know that's great.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I was that way up until I went to a
training class with Dave Spalding and he showed me how
to properly use a red dot. And suddenly the dot
was no longer zipping through the screen and it was working,
and suddenly I was shooting faster and straighter than I
had shot before.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
They're kind of a thing. Yeah, they're catching on. Yeah,
now I teased it before we went to break. You
guys have hundreds of thousands of members of u s CCA,
and you hear from them. What are you guys hearing
these days? What types of Is there a trend of
what's hap happening out there with so many people carrying.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
Lately?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
What I've been hearing most about is that we're finally
getting through to people that caliber doesn't matter. Shot placement
is the most important thing. And you know what, We've
argued forever and ever and ever, you know what is
a suitable caliber for self defense? And people will say
nothing smaller than a three eighty, and that's fine, go ahead.
(19:25):
But I'm one of those rule number one guys, which
is have a gun, a gun that you can put
on target. So people are talking about using things like
the thirty two h and R and three eighty caliber pistols,
which are now becoming better and nicer and easier to shoot.
I mean, some of those tiny three eighties were just
painting the butts shoot. And yeah, people are understanding that
(19:50):
your gun does not have to have a caliber that
begins with a four.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
You know, no what you have to urge and carry
forty five because they don't make a forty six. We've
been talking about that actually a little bit on the
show today, and some of the people did respond that
the gun they used to carry was something smaller. It
was a three eighty, but now I went to a
nine because it's more power. And then you have the
flip side of it. I used to carry a forty
(20:14):
and now I carry a nine because it's so much
easier to shoot.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
What do you think, Yeah, and it a nine is
easier to shoot than a forty, and a smaller caliber
is easier to shoot than a bigger caliber. What's important
to me is a gun that's comfortable on your hip
or wherever you're carrying it, and it's comfortable in your hand,
so you will shoot it a lot and train, and
then you put the front sight on the bad guy
and you shoot the bad guy a lot until he stops,
(20:40):
and that's it. And no caliber, you know, three fifty
seven sig or three fifty seven magnum or whatever, No
caliber is going to give you that lightning bolt stop
unless you hit the central nervous system. So get really
good at hitting that small little band and shut the
guy off. But Yeah's that's what I've been hearing more
(21:00):
and more is people are getting away from I got
to have the biggest gun to I got to be
able to shoot better. And I love seeing that. I
love seeing people trained and practice and understand what they
can and can't do.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And you guys offer a lot of training, and you're
a guy who trains, what should the expectation be for
someone carrying as far as how quickly do they need
to put shots on target and what type of accuracy
should they be expecting from themselves.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I would love to see everybody who carries a gun
to be able to draw from concealment and hit a
four x six target in two seconds with two shots,
but one shot at least, then you're getting that first
accurate shot on target, and that's going to make the
bad guy at least pause for a moment and think, oh,
that hurts and burns. I should do something different. But
(21:49):
if you can come from your holster to the target
in two seconds and a four x six card, some
people will say three y five carden, Chris Serino will
shoot a plane card and hal and do all kind
o stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
You gotta you gotta be able to train, You gotta
be able to hit the bad guy. Kevin, thanks for
you being on with us USCCA. Go check him out
off with a lot of training. We'll be right back. Hey,
welcome back to Gun Talk today on the show. I'm
(22:21):
filling in. I'm Ryan Gresham and we don't have Tom
He's off, you know, just doing escapades around the world
or something. I don't know. What he's doing, we don't
really know. But we have our team here in the studio.
We brought back Chris Serino, Kevin Jarnagan. What'd you think
we we had Jason and we had Kevin Mkalowski on.
(22:45):
Those guys are great, huh.
Speaker 9 (22:47):
I I never really left. I listened to the whole thing,
and I think they're fantastic. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I
could listen to Jason talk about stuff. He's he just
knows so much about guns and the ends and out
in the sales. Number one takeaway for me with him
was listen, guys, you're out there, you're listening, or you're
(23:10):
watching lipsies dot com.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Just go to that, find what you want.
Speaker 9 (23:18):
Talk to your gun dealers and tell them, hey, just
call lipsies and get it for me.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Get it.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Just worth the day. And of course I want you
to sell you this Browning ex bolt because that's what
I have in stock.
Speaker 10 (23:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Well, that's cool.
Speaker 9 (23:32):
But you know, my takeaway with Kevin always is he
is so smart. He's one of the funniest, smartest guys
I know. I've known him for so many years. He
used to work with him. And you write for U. S. C.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
C A.
Speaker 9 (23:44):
So you know, we got to spend some time together
really enjoy him.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Jason did fill us in on I knew he would know.
I knew he would know carry gun that has a
grip safety and no thumb safety shield easy?
Speaker 4 (24:00):
How did he not remember it a good one? How
did we not remember that?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And you know, the shield easy? When they brought it
out in three eighty, we were doing some videos about it.
I'm shooting this thing. I just it was so stupid
because I just kept going, man, this thing really is
easy to run, easy to shoot. I'm going, yeah, they
see what we did there? Yeah, that's why we named
it that. I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel like
(24:24):
but in fact, boy, not a tiny three eighty kind
of a small but not not subcompact, not pocket gun,
great to shoot, fun to shoot, full relatively full sized gun,
a great gun to teach people on too, And I
wanted to bring that up. So this past weekend I
(24:44):
was telling you guys a little bit. I had some
friends out to the range here, a buddy and his
wife and his brother, and we're kind of shooting some guns.
So the funniest thing that happened was he said he
wanted to shoot his carry gun that he has been
carrying for several years, has a red dot on it,
and he's shooting it and he's doing fine, but he's
(25:06):
a little bit all over the place, but he doesn't
shoot a lot. And I mentioned something about, you know,
making sure that the red dot sided into kind of
to where you're shooting, and he goes, you you have
to site those in.
Speaker 8 (25:21):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
He has been carrying this gun with a red dot
on it with confidence for years and he had never
sighted in the red dot.
Speaker 9 (25:30):
Chris Well, I mean, it's amazing what people don't know.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
Ryan.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
I called you yesterday. I told you this little.
Speaker 9 (25:42):
Story about a conversation I had with a future student.
I mean, it's amazing what people don't know until they
hear it from your mouth, Like you know, I.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Know this, do you well?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And it's not picking on him. But luckily the red
dot wasn't that far off, but it was definitely not
sighted in. He was lucky and it was it was
a little bit off where he could he could still
hit targets and stuff. But it's just funny, like we
take that for granted because it comes as a package
on that he brought this as a package on the gun.
Of course, red dots already mounted on the gun. It's
(26:17):
ready to go, right, and so so people listening. Yes,
there are a lot of pistols being sold with red
dots that are already on them, but yes, you do
need to side it in.
Speaker 9 (26:29):
Well, I just like hunting packages, right, Kevin. They sell
every once in a while, you'll get a rifle with
an optic and the whole type of thing.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Right.
Speaker 11 (26:36):
I've never bought one of those, but you're correct, Yes
you do get those. But like I kind of treat
I don't know. I guess they're kind of the same
because every time you go out and I use a
hunting gun, I'm sighting.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It in every time, well every single time.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
But here's here's what you're missing, my good friend. Yes,
I just.
Speaker 9 (26:56):
Most people don't shoot well enough to notice a difference.
You're right, Yeah, so there's that thing. It's like, okay,
so yeah, I'm hitting all this. It's like, yeah, look
at him, I'm hitting everything. I mean, I hit the target.
But they haven't trained with me or trained with somebody
to say, you know, you could do so much better.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Well, that's why I asked Kevin, what is that? What
should the expectation be? He said, drawing from concealment and
hitting a four by six inch square twice in two seconds,
that's a standard that he would like to see people doing. Now, Chris,
how many people do you think can do that? Right now?
(27:37):
People who carry.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
I don't know if I can do that?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Cold, Yeah, that's easy.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
I mean, let's let's be honest.
Speaker 11 (27:45):
Yeah, kJ I don't think, not right now, cold, I don't.
I definitely don't think I could do that.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
I mean, that's that's with.
Speaker 9 (27:51):
My gun in the exact right position in my appendix spot.
And I haven't sloughed around in a flat rang standing
out of range, not shooting back, you know, and and
uh and my belt hasn't jostled my gun just right. Listen, man,
if you if you get in that type of situation.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
You're you're in trouble. You're you're shot trouble.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Your accuracy is is going to go down, not up.
Speaker 9 (28:21):
Verbal skills, verbal judo, creating distance, disengaging number one.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Be observant.
Speaker 11 (28:28):
I know you want to say, I want to say something,
but you just keep shanghai you ahead, Chris can Chris
can do this cold. Yeah, he's being very humul good
at the shooting. Yeah, because he he is on the
trigger every day, sure, and and he's ready for it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Those people aren't. I mean the other thing is you're
kind just taking the taking them out. His wife had
never shot a pistol before. I think he wanted to
give her his carry gun his eye. I said, no, no,
we got I grabbed a cig three twenty two out
and we shot that and she had fun with it.
She did fine, she shot really well with it. But
(29:06):
whenever you can someone who's never shot a pistol before,
please please please give them a twenty two to start. You,
don't you agree? Something really small?
Speaker 9 (29:15):
Yeah, I like it twenty two and I like, yeah, suot,
you're one hundred percent right.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
You gotta feel that recoil.
Speaker 8 (29:21):
I like.
Speaker 9 (29:22):
I like something that's a fuller size twenty two. The Rugers,
the Smithton Wesson's, the the sig sours.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Yeah, I know I have there, Walters got one, and
this is really big. It's just stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Well, and you know, when you it's a fun thing
to take people out shooting, but you got to start
in the right way and have some fun doing it.
We'll be right back with we're gun Talking.
Speaker 10 (29:49):
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Speaker 2 (31:54):
And we were back with gun Talk. Thanks for listening,
and if you're listening to this, we air on about
two hundred and seventy radio stations around the country. Do
us a favor. Thank your radio stations for airing gun Talk.
It's not a given that they keep running us, you know,
but let them know that you're listening, because like, oh dang,
(32:16):
somebody is listening to this show. And I'll say this,
if you're a local business that advertises maybe you know,
throw them a little throwing a bone there. I'm Ryan Gresham,
I'm filling in for Tom Gresham, and we got our
gun Talk team here. Kevin Jarnagan kJ formerly flat BRIMKJ.
His brim is curved today what they want. We are filmed,
(32:40):
so if you want to go see it in person
in real life, you can watch it on the gun
talk channels. Chris Serino is here. We're talking about taking
people out to the range and some new people shooting,
and I'll throw you another one that. So we were
siding in kind of reconfirming zero on one of my
buddy's rifles. It's a six'. Five it has a. Suppressor nice,
(33:02):
gun just fine tuned, it no big. Deal his brother
had a thirty out, six no, suppressor that had never
been sided. In, like, yeah we'll get it sided. In.
Boy not that a thirty out six is known for
being heavy, recoil but when you're shooting a six y
five creed. More the six y five need more with
(33:23):
a suppressor on. It it's just. Pleasant it's one of the
reasons that's so popular thirty out SIX. kJ i was, like,
whoa we're shooting a man's.
Speaker 11 (33:30):
Gun, now, yeah it's all, there like you're getting all
the grains.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And that's you, know when you start like.
Speaker 11 (33:37):
Transitioning from a gun that doesn't kick a lot a
lot of recoil to a bigger, gun you really find
out quick like your little discrepancies in trigger press and your. Fundamentals,
yeah AND i know that's What chris is big, about is,
Fundamentals like if you don't have them in, place when
you start shooting those bigger, guns the guns that you're
(33:59):
not used, to it exposes a lot of the.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Flaws, yeah for. Sure, well and the other part IS i, said,
well let me shoot, it BECAUSE i didn't. KNOW i
don't think he was like real familiar with the. Gun
and you, know it's. Hot we're just wearing A t.
Shirt there's zero, padding AND i, mean you, Know i'm
not Saying I'M i couldn't handle, it but it was
noticeable in the recoil of, going oh, yeah this is
(34:24):
kind of like back in the. Day and it's also
a reason why when we said shooting a twenty two
is a great place to start with a pistol a new.
Shooter don't give him that thirty out, six, Right.
Speaker 9 (34:35):
Chris, well the problem is eventually you got to get
there and you'll take a lot for, Granted like we're
taking things for granted now with the six or. Five
needs more in the suppressors and things we, do and
then we get on another gun and we're.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Like holy, moly because we shot.
Speaker 9 (34:52):
Didn't we just shoot one the other, day maybe last,
month that didn't have your dad's and it didn't have a,
Break it DIDN'T i have.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Anything it was what kind of? Gun was?
Speaker 11 (35:02):
It three hundred And winchester short mag with.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Them so we shot.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
It and now NOW i can do all that.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
STUFF i shoot.
Speaker 9 (35:13):
People's guns all the. Time they want me to verify.
It they're, like, hey is this thing? Zero can you
help me? Zero AND i can do it AND i
can tough it out just like we did For loverfest
with all the. Seventies but it takes every fiber of
my being to not get, flinchy to Get winsey to
blink my eyes, shouldn't to pruss.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
The trigger and.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
Correctly it takes Every how DO i do? IT i don't,
know all, right BECAUSE i know.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
So chris kJ we. Are we are in the middle Of,
september and this is the season of everybody goes to
the range to side in their hunting guns and make
sure it's. Zeroed and it's the you, know it's the
five shots they shoot a year through their gun to
make sure but tips on siding, in BECAUSE i, mean
(36:04):
it was like my buddy was siding in AND i
was kind of trying to help him just get more
accurate from the, bench because it's not just about flopping
the gun, down and it's certainly not about leaning the gun
against the hood of a, truck but certainly that's a
way to do. It, chris what are a couple tips
you have for people when they're sighting their guns getting
ready for the.
Speaker 9 (36:23):
Season i'm gonna give you my high points and Then
i'm gonna defer To casey.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Does a lot of this. Stuff but if, listen.
Speaker 9 (36:31):
If you're just trying to get zero and make sure
the gun is, On, yes use a. Bench bag, it
get your bags, out, really nest that gun, in get
down on. It shoot from as low as you can
on the. Bench because when you shoot on that, bench
my terminology is you want to melt into the. BENCH
(36:52):
i want my ribs, touching my, arm, touching my, triceps,
touching my elbows. TOUCHING i want my feet firmly planted
on the. GROUND i want to melt is slump into
that gun and be as comfortable as.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Possible you're not balancing anything or holding anything up and
WAY i kind of tried to describe it to him
a little bit was, like you should just be looking
through the scope and the crosshairs are just sitting on the.
Bullseye you shouldn't be having to fight. ANYTHING. kJ WHAT
i want to know is a perfect. World in a perfect, WORLD,
kJ WHAT i want to know is bench or.
Speaker 11 (37:26):
PRONE M i love prone BECAUSE i can melt into
the earth like THE i.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
CAN i know that bench is not going to.
Speaker 8 (37:34):
MOVE i can.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Completely next and. Stuff, yeah that's what.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Kills that's the.
Speaker 11 (37:38):
Problem and that's WHY i think you're training outside before
you get to the range is just as important as
when you get to the, range because then you know
that trigger, press you know what that trigger is going to,
do you know what the gun's going to. Do you're
shooting positionally in your dry fire, practice so you're going
off of a ladder or off of a chair with a,
bag and you're you're getting used to those positions and
(37:59):
you're getting down into prone and stuff like. That so
a lot of it would comes for siding in before the.
Speaker 9 (38:05):
Shot I'm i'm gonna add one thing to mine into all. This,
yes when you get to the, bench when you get
to the. Bench don't just go right to. Shooting, oh
do it on a day when it's not too, hot
not too, cold not too.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Hopefully you can get in that Windy do it.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
When you're not in a.
Speaker 9 (38:24):
Hurry, yes and press the trigger several times dry fight
on the bench because we see a lot in.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
That don't at your best grigger press, YEAH i mean
this Is this will save you. Time this will save you.
Ammo and if you do it, right you know your guns.
On because confidence is such a big deal when you're
out in the. Field if you have doubts about where
your gun is sighted, in you're not really sure and you're,
THINKING i don't, know DID i hold? It DID i
(38:54):
sid it? In two inches? High one? Hundred but figure
all that out before you get into the. Field we'll
talk about that and much more when we get back
with more gun. Talk all, right welcome back to Gun.
Talk Ryan gresh from filling in For Tom gresham this,
(39:16):
week and we've Got Kevin Jarnigan Chris rino in studio
with us right. Now all, right, guys there's a video
going around on the internet about this guy and there's
the video is wild and if you haven't seen. It
you need to go online and just look. Up like
man shoots bear in. House, okay a. Bear this is the.
(39:39):
Video i'm gonna lay it out for people who haven't
seen the. Video it's like night. Vision he's got security.
Cameras he's creeping down the hallway with his ar with
a light on, it and a bear charges him down
the hallway and he shoots seven times and drops this
black bear that was in his. HOUSE i know you
(39:59):
guys saw the. VIDEO i mean kJ this guy was.
Speaker 11 (40:03):
Ready he has played that scene out in his mind countless.
Times he was fallless in his execution of.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
IT i might have done a few.
Speaker 11 (40:15):
Things, different but like WHAT i, like because he came
downstairs and he was on THE i would have probably
sat on the banister and like scoped it out because
it almost looked like he had nods.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
On, well he was working his. WAY i know there's
a lot of what it.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
Though we can't see. Everything you can't see.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Everything, well let me tell you. Now the videos come
out where he's answering questions because he says people are,
like wait a, minute did he know it was a?
Bear he, goes, NO i didn't know it was a.
Bear he just heard something in his house and it
was an Ar it was. Suppressed it wasn't eleven Inch,
guysley this this guy is, like oh, okay this guy
(40:57):
is a real gun guy who was prepared and. Ready
and it was a two, two two three five five six.
Gun seven shots into a. BlackBerry it.
Speaker 11 (41:07):
Dropped, yeah it'll it will do. IT i, mean you
pump enough lead in there and they're gonna shut.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Down.
Speaker 9 (41:13):
YEAH i think he was obviously facing. Him he did
it very. Quickly from WHAT i, saw he executed. Perfectly
he did go in.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
And get very very close to the very very close
to The, yeah down to.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Him he came down.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Stairs you were, right you ain't down the.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Stairs he.
Speaker 11 (41:33):
Did BUT i mean to have, that that's the kind
of nerve you need if you're going to be carrying
a gun every day or protect. Yourself that's the kind
of nerve you need when you're face to face with a.
Threat you've got to have the nerve. That he didn't back.
Down he didn't play. Peekaboo he went in and he
confronted what he.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Needed no.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Hesitation But, chris But, chris not it an a lean.
Gun you're gonna lose all these. Ballistics you're gonna lose
on the. BULLET i guess it didn't matter at seven.
Speaker 9 (42:03):
Feet, well he was Using hornity critical defense he, was
which is probably designed for shorter barrel.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Rifles, yeah opened up. Quickly.
Speaker 9 (42:13):
Probably, Yeah so you know you've got to factor all those.
Things and plus he was very very close BECAUSE i
know at twenty five yards special great steel is no
match for an eleven inch.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Ar it won't even dimple.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
It. Yeah, well there's it's very unlikely that you're going
to have a bear home intruder in your, house but
the chances are not. Zero are You are you ready
with your home defense gun for the bear?
Speaker 11 (42:38):
Intruders, well we all picture what are our situation that
home is going to. Be and for, HIM i, THINK i,
mean he had to have been prepared because it looked
like wherever he was, from he was In MOUNTAINOUS i think,
YEAH i think.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
He was, yeah out west. Northwest, Now, chris you keep,
bees SO i mean, HONEY i mean there could be an.
Issue we could this could be you next.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
Week, yeah my bee's are one hundred yards from the.
House but, HEY i still store honey in the house and.
There then we do have black.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Bears now he's baiting there are there's a. Season there's
a season In louisiana for black. Bears all, right aar
versus a black, bearry it will. Work after the, break
we're gonna be talking thermal optics with a guy who really,
knows because what do you need to know about thermal.
Optics they're, ACCESSIBLE a lot of people are using them these,
(43:32):
days and it's one of the most fun ways to.
Hunt i'm telling, you stay. Tuned will be right back
with more gun. Cops
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