December 3, 2025 • 34 mins
Your odds of beating these two on the range is near zero. How two sisters grew up to become two of the best female shooters on the planet. Ryan Gresham sits down with championship shooters Justine and Jalise Williams of Team Colt. From growing up with firearms and training as kids, to competing at the IPSC World Shoot in South Africa, the Williams sisters share their journey through the world of professional shooting.
Whether you're a competitive shooter, an instructor, or just curious about life on the range, this episode offers practical advice and personal insight from two of the top female shooters in the game.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by NRA ARC, Black Hills Ammunition, Military Armament Corp., and Range Ready Studios.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 12.03.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Whether you're a competitive shooter, an instructor, or just curious about life on the range, this episode offers practical advice and personal insight from two of the top female shooters in the game.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by NRA ARC, Black Hills Ammunition, Military Armament Corp., and Range Ready Studios.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 12.03.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But on a regular basis, if I'm just getting ready
for just some area match or even nationals. Now, when
you've competed at so many world shoots, Nationals kind of
feels low key, which is crazy to say.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is guntog Nation. Gun
Talk Nation is brought to you by n RA A
ARC Blackhill's Ammunition, Mac and Range Ready. Hey, welcome in
(00:39):
a guntog nation. Today on Guntognation, we're talking with two
shooters who are both champions and what they do and
they're related. How about that? All right? Please welcome in.
Jay LEAs and Justine Williams. Welcome in.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Did I say all that right?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Something like that?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah? Yeah, so man, we have known each other for
a while, long time we did. We did an episode
of gun Talk Television coming out to Utah and my
dad filming with you guys when you were twelve thirteen. Yeah,
(01:19):
somewhere in.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
There, well till thirteen, long time ago, very long ago.
That it was like a while back, almost ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, a long time. You guys were I guess were
you pro shooters then?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
I mean there's different definitions of pro. We were always
taught that your pro once you get paid. So at
that point, like it wasn't very much, but yes, Mary's
it starts.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
With like here's a gun or here's some free m
O or something. Right then you actually like go, okay,
but I have to pay the bills, right, yeah, once.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
You have bills, right, which was about what fifteen Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
It's expensive traveling and competing.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Right, very very expensive.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It's amazing to me. I mean, we all know people
who who do it for a living or for work,
but we also know a lot of people in the
gun industry who love competing and they do it. It's
not exactly their job, but they they're like, oh, yeah,
I went to this match, went to that match, and
I mean, I've shot a little bit of competitive things,
(02:29):
but I'm not like a competitive shooter. It amazes me.
I'm like, how do you pay for all this? Like
just these guys and gals who were like, yeah, I
went to Phoenix for this thing and went out to
South Carolina for this thing.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I'm like, man, really good jobs. I assume.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
We were lucky enough that when we started so young
that my parents were very they were great parents, and
they wanted to foot the bill, and they did for
a very very long time, and they both worked incredibly
hard in order to do it. Because we were so young,
we couldn't travel by ourselves. Sure, so they had paid
for the whole family to go all the time.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Sure, and they one person.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah, so both of them working together were able to
fit the bill.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Talk about how you guys got into this, because I mean,
I have two daughters and they shoot and they're pretty
good at it, and they humor Dad, but I don't
push it real hard, and you know, like, how did
you get into this and when did you grow to
like it so much?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I mean, honestly, we've been shooting with my dad since
we were in diaper like like three and four. We
would go with him hunting. Mom would pack the diaper
bag and say, okay, go with your dad, and he
would take us hunting. But my mom always knew that
she wanted us to have a good education with all firearms.
So we knew rifles, we knew shotguns, but handguns was
(03:50):
kind of missing from our life. So she took us
to a ladies' night clinic and solely focusing on handguns,
and we absolutely loved it. We loved the people there
having that with our mom. Our dad was not into it.
He was like, why would I pay arrange to shoot
and I could just go out to the desert. So
he was actually very anti, which most people think is
(04:13):
really crazy. Usually it's the dad getting them into it,
but it was actually our mom who got us into it,
and we just kept going back and honestly like, we
loved it. We loved the people we love competing with
each other. And then finally my dad obviously caved and
started coming out, and then it became a family affair.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So talk about your first time shooting in a match.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Jayle's, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
I feel so old because I can hardly remember it.
I think it was a Tuesday Tuesday night steal. Like
my dad was still like not wanting to like support
this because like, who wants to put a full.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Size nine millimeter in eight nine and ten year old tans?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Like so right.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
So we'd gone out to the ladies clinics and stuff,
and the instructors they're like, hey, you should try the competition.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
The Tuesday Steel will walk you through it.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
My Mom's like, okay, yeah, we'll take them with their
twenty twos and we'll figure it out with them.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
And I really don't remember it. I just I just
remember the time that dad came with.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Us, which was a month or so after we star
tune Tuesday Night Steel, and like we showed up and
with our like leather everything in their twenty twoes and
everybody had their competition gear on.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
My dad's like Jamie to my mom, my mom's name
is Jamie. She was like. He was like, we don't
belong here.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
These people are like insane and they're like, shooe Tuesday Steel.
He's like, Jamie, we don't belong here, like our daughters
and stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
We don't belong here.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Really, And then we show our first stage and just
all smiles and stuff, and my dad shot and then
my dad was all smiles because the ring of the
steel just draws people in that instant feedback.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Sure, absolutely, it's the most fun.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
We like that.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Well, I mean that's what guns are, right, It's an
instance and feedback like look, I'm gonna I'm gonna pull
this this trigger, this mechanism and down there something happened.
It's like you know, a remote control, and but most people,
uh for for I mean, this is a I mean
it's a fairly male dominated world or or male skewed world,
(06:21):
and it's you don't see as many maybe more now,
maybe more women, more kids, or youth getting into it.
At what point did you start taking it seriously fairly quickly?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I think there we had an opportunity to start training,
like teaching students with a firearms training company, and I
think at that point our parents sat us down and said,
you really can do this for the rest of your life,
Like you have such a great opportunity here and it's
it's your choice. You can continue going into school, or
(06:59):
we can switch you to online school and you can
go train with them. And I think at that point
we decided, like, yes, this is what we want to do.
This is a great opportunity. We're going to capitalize on it.
And I think we were maybe thirteen fourteen at the time,
so I think at that point in our life we
were going to really just do the best that we
can with the opportunities that was provided to us to
(07:21):
make the fullest of it.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
And what an interesting place to be in the timing
of at that age, go I think this is what
I want to do. Yeah, And I mean, you guys
are doing it here.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
This is real.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Most people will probably listen to this. I mean they're
gun people, right, they're gun enthusiasts, and you're like, that
could be a job. Yes, this is a job. It's
an entire industry. Let's talk about let's fast. Well, I
do want to say this because if people are watching this,
we took off like half of the costume. But we
(07:56):
are filming this the day before Halloween. We have a
cult event, an experience happening here. You guys are here
for that, and so some people are dressed up for
Halloween today. Uh, Justine, you took off the fairy wings.
I did, but what is your costume today?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
So I like because they're saying, yeah, does she normally
wear a tutu?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
No?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I don't. I wish honestly that would be a slight.
But I'm the cult fairy. My tagline is to make
all of your shooting dreams come true with a biboty
bobbity bang.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So I loved it.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
It was like perfect, I could have all of my
shooting gear on and still look beautiful.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That's great. Kind of figure out a costume that works
for still going.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
On with Yes, yes, that is somewhat hard, and I'm
Kim Possible. I have my cult sweatshirt on right now,
but I have classic Oh I'm always cold, but I have,
of course, like the classic Kim Possible stuff on and
the red hair.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Nice. Yes, lean into the red hair.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I've leaned into the red hair for years now.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Why not? It's a unique talent. You guys both went
to South Africa? Right? How long ago? Is this about
a month?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Four weeks here? Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
We got back just about a month ago. So the
match actually happened probably a month and a half ago.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Okay, So talk about this is the World Shooting Championships.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
It's a world shoot. It's a candun world shoot.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeakay.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Talk about what was it like traveling there? I mean,
you guys have done some other international travel, I imagine,
yeah for your shooting, But talk about traveling there. What
was that like?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Well, the flight was fifteen hours, just one leg of
the flight it was fifteen hours. So that was an experience.
That's the longest spot I've ever been on. So that
was an experience for sure. Just getting there. Once you
were there, Like I personally, we were really nervous about
going there because South Africa. You don't really hear the
best things coming from there right now. So everyone going
(10:03):
there was pretty nervous. But when we got there, we
had a driver drive us from the airport to a
hotel and then the hotel to the town. We were
saying that, and then from there we drove ourselves and honestly,
like surprisingly, we felt pretty good. Like I feel like
I explained it to people, was like in certain cities
you wouldn't go out at night and like keep yourself safe,
be situationally aware and things like that. It was the
(10:25):
same thing there, honestly, like any big city, just like that. Honestly,
the food was great, it was not expensive. Everyone was
super nice.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Was this Johannesburg?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
It was like two hours side of Johahannesburg.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Okay, okay, so you traveled with your handguns? Yes, how
was that?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
It wasn't bad.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
So the the one issue we ran into was that
the South African police kept changing.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Their minds on what we could bring with guns and animals.
So is it.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
At first it was like, okay, you can only bring
two caliber of the same gun and that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
You can only bring two guns in the country.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
And then they changed it. They're like, we're lift it more.
You can bring three of the same one.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You can bring four guns total, three of them can
be the same caliber. I'm like, oh my gosh, it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
And then like a month before they're like, yeah, never mind,
we're going back to to the same caliber. And then
you can bring like one extra gun that's a different caliber.
And so a lot of people's permit like had to
get changed last minute, including mine, and so you know,
a bunch of them showed up and their permits weren't
done and so they had to spend forever the South
(11:33):
African Police like figuring it out. But that was those
a big issue, along with like getting enough AMMO there.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Originally we were supposed to have the palette which we
shipped all to one location and they were supposed to
ship it and then for some reason that didn't end
up happening. So then South African Police said we could
bring two thousand rounds, which is plenty, and then they
changed it to five hundred rounds, which isn't even enough
to cover the match behind you. So it was it
was like the match was like I think six forty
(12:03):
or something like that. It would have been yeah, so
it wasn't even enough to cover the match. Then of
course everyone was panicked. I panic bought Ammo like over there,
which you never want to use match Ammo because it's
not tested, it's not yours, it's not tuned to the gun, right,
So that was a little bit of panicked, but it
ended up being totally fine.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I used my parents as mules.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
I was like, you get five hundred and you get
five Did I get five hundred.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I've heard some stories of like the competitive shooters. Yes,
I'll tell you a funny story that I can't tell
who it is and I can't I won't give it
to any details. But a guy know, uh who won.
There's in the Middle East, there's certain shooting competitions. There's
a lot of dollars there, especially on the shotgun side.
(12:47):
He won a bunch of money and they give him cash. Oh,
they give him like this is like you know you're
in I don't you know you're in Dubai or whatever,
and yeah, here's a bunch of cash. And it's like,
I think you can only bring like ten thousand dollars
in cash.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, back with you or you have to like claim
it and claim.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
It so he did the mule thing. You get ten thousand,
you get ten thousands, you get you guys.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, oh let me tell you.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Anybody listening, look up like Middle East shotgun matches and
you're you will be blown away. I mean it is
high dollar stuff. It's wild crazy, Yeah, it's wild. But yeah,
going back to like bringing your your guns and your
AMMO to South Africa. Now, the IPSTC World Shoot. How
(13:45):
does it differ from like a big match here is
there are the stages of the is the shooting.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
It's it's very it's very similar, like the scoring and everything.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
The gear is very similar. The main difference is like
the style of stages. So IPSICK is so in the
US we shoot USPSA and IPSICK is the international version
of USPSA.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Basically, actually IPSICK started.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
In the US and since then whatever fifty years ago
or something, and a sense moved internationally. It's very very
popular internationally. But it's basically just the shooting style. So
IPSICK is more technical, like movements are very precise. They
also follow the three to one rule on stages. So
for every long course, which is thirty two rounds, every
(14:35):
long course, you have to have two mediums, which is
like twenty rounds and three short courses, which is like eight.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
To ten rounds.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Okay, So that's they follow that role where it right,
So in the US we mainly only shoot law courses,
so it's it's very different. You in the US were
very fast shooters, very quick, very.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I was gonna say, we closed my mind that the
US always does so good at these world shoots because
we are literally going in there with the least amount
of ipsick experience, the least I would say accuracy experience,
and we always walk away with like the most medals.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Okay, accuracy. So I know in general usps A people
will say, I mean, is the accuracy is important, but
it's like you can the whole hit factor or whatever,
like you can go fast and get your good enough hits.
(15:39):
Is kind of the thing around here, right, Yeah, different
different internationally.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yes, so like generally, so in USPSA, we always say
you can outrun your Charlie's So if you go fast enough.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
You can be fast enough to outrun your bad shooting. Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Exactly ipsick. It's a little bit different depending on the match.
Like you generally have to get more alphas and you
can be a little bit slower. I will say though,
that South Africa was a little bit different. The stages
were much faster paced than general ipsick matches, so it
was it was actually very tailored to like USA USPSA
(16:18):
style of shooting, so we definitely had a leg up
going into it for this one specifically.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I mean none of us expected it to be so fast,
Like all of us were making ourselves cry on our
home ranges trying to shoot like thirty yard partials and like.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Tiny steel at like forty yards.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Yeah, and then we get there, We're like, wow, we
made ourselves miserable for nothing.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And like I go, like she said, I'm I'm generally
a faster shooter, so I'm practicing everything I'm not good
at because I'm like, this is my weakness. I need
to work on what I'm good at. And I show
up and I'm like, I should have been practicing what
I was good at. This is really unfortunate. I could
have gone even faster.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Does when you look at these stages you show up
to a match like that, do you have an idea
of how fast you need to go by walking through
and looking at the stage or is it a combination
of watching the other competitors and say, hmmm, I could
go faster here, or I need to make sure I'm
going faster or this fast.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
So the really thing about IPSICK that's not in us
PSA's you actually can't walk the stages beforehand, so you
have to stay behind a line and you can only
view them from afar. You can't actually walk onto the
stage until it's your squad's turned to shoot. At that
point you'll get three minutes to make a plan. Okay,
So in IPSICK we are getting our speed of shooting
(17:40):
from basically just looking from the back to the fault
line and then judging estimated range from the fault line
to the targets, which you kind of get a hang
of after you've done it for a while. And then
also the pre match was going on, so seeing like
headcam videos or just video cameras, like you are listening
and watching them shoot quickly.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Can see you know, like a cadence, Oh I can
shoot it that fast.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, And this is the pre match. So generally the
majority of the best shooters in the world are not
even shooting during their pre match. So if the pre
match is shooting fast, you know, that like this is
a fast match, It's going to be much faster when
the main match shoots.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Let's take a quick break. After break, I'm going to
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the US is the biggest country with this big gun culture,
(20:51):
but there are gun cultures everywhere else. And so you
guys are at this big international match, are there certain
countries or certain teams that are known for being really
good shooters or have a big gun culture.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah. Absolutely, So. One thing that is really unique when
you start to travel outside of the US for competitions
is actually they treat it way more like a regular
sport in other countries. So I've come to the conclusion
that I believe it's because everyone in the US can
pretty much have a gun, so it's not as cool.
But in other countries it's very difficult to get these guns,
(21:23):
Like the permits and the process to get these guns
are it's very difficult. So if you have one, it's
you're gonna use competitions and like you're kind of held
to a different standard. So some countries that are really
known for their shooting, as Italy. Italy has very pretty
much any team that they send, you know is gonna
be really good. Argentina has a very good production team.
(21:45):
Usually they're taking the tops in the production. Everyone always
looks out for the US obviously.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I think Brazil.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Brazil always sets a huge shooting team as well as
South Africa.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Like everywhere I.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
Go, I feel like I see a gigantic South African tea.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, so I think you have certain people like I'm
thinking of Eric that shoots for CZ. He's a fresh guy.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
He never Philippines has a pretty.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Big culture as well.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Like everywhere, they clean up pretty well. A world everyone.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Always has, just like they have their shooters who you
know if they're going like, I're gonna have to watch
out for them, right. It's really unique to see all
the countries and all of their countries. Shooters have the
pride for their own countries, like and especially during the
opening ceremony and even the closing ceremony when they're playing
the anthems for the winners. It's it's a very beautiful
(22:35):
thing to watch.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
That's neat. How many shooters do you know? How many shoots?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I think that one had eighteen hundred. Wow, there's there's
a lot. That was like the biggest world shoot ever ever.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I know Chech earlier this year, which was a different
it was PCC World shoot. That one. I think had
like twelve hundred competitors.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Very cool. And what about the gear? I mean, you
guys both shoot for cold. Does the gear differ a
lot between all the different shooters or are they or
what are there set up similar?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
It depends on the division your shooting. Everyone like everyone's like,
if you're shooting open, you're clearly using a race holster.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
I mean in I shoot single stacks, So in single
stack there is actually a pretty big difference in the
gear setup from the US to IPSICK because in IPSICK
in the US, we have a weight limit for our
guns and our mags and everything, whereas an ipsiic like
basically like any weight goes so they use bowl barrels
(23:38):
and IPSICK to keep the gun super heavy.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
In US we don't do that.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
You can use race holsters for single sack, and IPSICK
you can't.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
You have to have like a full coverage holster.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
So do you switch over to kind of make your
gun racier for you?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I So I shoot so many different shooting sports ipsick
US say, IDPA, like so many different ones that I have.
My gun is set up to be able to pass
inspection for all of them. So I never have to
try and switch my gear and switch my gun and
get used to a different gun.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Everything's just standard, gotcha, what about you?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Justin I'd also compete in a lot of different I
wouldn't say as many disciplines as she does, but I
kind of bounce back and forth between rifle and pistol
a lot like this. This past year, we've competed at
PCC World Shoot and that was like my main focus
for the past like four years. So switching back to
this pretty quickly. I was on the ladies team and
(24:33):
I've had the same exact setup for four years. I
always have the role if it ain't broke. If it's
not broke, don't fix it. I don't like messing with things,
for sure, but.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Competition shooters do tend to mess with things a lot.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
They do well. Technology is constantly changing.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Sponsors and companies are constantly coming out with new, faster,
easier gear and everything, so it does switch. I mean
gear changes every few years or something, where like it
is so obviously quicker and faster and easier.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
That you really have to switch.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
So I switched my belt set up slightly this year
than I have in the past five years because it
was so blatant.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, yeah, there are improvements.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Being which is really great.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
But like Justina and I like we shoot, we shoot
everything shotgun, rifle, PCC, a million different pistol divisions and
different sports and stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
So switching gear is really really.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Hard and keeping up with all the new gear changes
is really hard.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
So I like to say, like, we're.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Lazy professionals because we use like when it comes down
to good fundamentals and stuff, unless it's like blatantly faster
and better, Like we don't switch it because our fundamentals are.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Would be so much extra money switching everything around all
the funny.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, yeah, a good point. Yeah yeah. So how often
do you guys train? I mean, how often do you
like pulling trigger? Is it every day? Every week?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I would say it depends on like the upcoming matches.
So I would definitely say this year specifically because we
had two world shoots, it was probably the most amount
of AMMO I've shot in my entire career really because
there was two and they were completely different rifle versus pistol.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
They were a few months apart. Yeah, they were part
which is crazy, so much worse.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, So I would say, like leading up to those matches,
I was shooting four or five times a week for
three to four hours a day plus gym time. But
on a regular basis. If I'm just getting ready for
just some area match or even nationals. Now, when you've
competed at so many world shoots, Nationals kind of feels
low key. It does, which is crazy to say, like
(26:49):
I don't get really nervous to nationals and Anyone'm like
other nationals. Sure, but I would say, just regular matches,
like two maybe three times a week, just make maintenance,
nothing crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Do you guys teach people how to shoot?
Speaker 4 (27:03):
You do?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
We each own our own training companies.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Okay, So what are the common questions or the things
that you see when people come in and you're teaching
someone shooting? I mean, is this more specific towards competition
or is this just I'm trying to learn how to
run a pistol.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I would say it depends on who you're teaching. I
mostly specialize in competition shooting specifically. The biggest question I
get is how do I shoot fast like you?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Nobody's as fast as her. I would say this bullet
trigger faster question mark.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I don't know. It's like it's an acquired skill over time.
You have to have really good fundamentals, obviously, whether that's
rifle or pistol. It's a big thing. We were talking
about actually at the class this weekend where people were like, man,
I can't see the Do'm like, it's your fundamentals. You
can only shoot as quickly as you can see the
dot or the sites on the target, right, So the
better you're fundamentals, it's the way you're going to see correct,
(28:00):
correct absolutely where it's like, man, did you see your dough?
I'm like, on that target, no, it's five yards, But
on a twenty yard target, you bet, I'm seeing everything
at that distance. It's just just like understanding your game
and the more you shoot, the more you dry fire,
the better you're gonna get over time.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I mean, how does is? Are there certain things that
you would tell people like if you want to start
being able to shoot faster, do do this thing or
do a couple of these things.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, definitely tell them to focus on their grip. Like
the grip, you can get a lot. You can get
away with a lot with your stance, which is awful
to say, but it's not awful to say.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Like our stance is supposed to be moveable and adgestable,
like we can shoot on one leg and control the
recoil with our stance because we've made our stance so
mobile and our body adjusts naturally to it.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
As long as you have a good grip like you can,
you can control a lot of that recoil. Obviously, the
better your stance is, the even better you're gonna get.
But if you don't have a good grip, you'll never
be able to hit targets quickly. So that's the first
answer you got to fix sure grip.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Do people grip the gun tight enough in general or
in general they don't, it's.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Not in my opinion, It's not really about like having
a stranglehold on your gun with your grip. It's about
applying pressure points to certain spots on the gun with
your grip. Because the last thing you want to do
is shoot one hundred rounds and be exhausted, like your
muscles and stuff be exhausted from shooting after only one
hundred rounds. It's having biomechanical efficiency of your grip and
(29:34):
your stance and everything coming together so you can shoot
a thousand and then feel tired after that.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
So applying in.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Those certain spots, and that's how we were able to
shoot at ninety ten years old and start competing and stuff.
Is because we learn that very early on and learned
how to control the gun with no muscle mask because
nineteen year olds they.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Don't have muscle masks.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Is that strong.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
We're very sure we do not have great gene. So
we're just short, small, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
These ladies aren't five eleven you oh, no, five.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Foot you know.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Every time I would grow, like when I was growing up,
I'm like, man, I hope to get a five foot
reach five and man, I hope to get to five
to one. I got the five four. I'm like, man,
I hope to get five to five and I've never
gotten to five five.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That's just that's it.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
That's all. It's gonna be.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Short for sure.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So people will say, oh, my wife, my girlfriend needs
a gun, and I'm gonna or even and I'm not.
I'll throw everybody under the bus on this one. And
he'll say, well, I'm gonna get her this little uh,
this little revolver. Or women will say the same thing, Yeah,
I don't know, I need to get a gun. I'm
(30:45):
gonna I'm gonna get this little pocket sized three eighty
or a revolver or something like that, because they're thinking
this is going to be more manageable, and and they're not.
It's they're not perhaps as scared of shooting it. But
what do you tell people, because I know you get
that question all.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
The time, very common misconception. Okay, So like me, I've
obviously I'm a pro shooter and stuff. I shoot forty fives,
nines and everything, and even I struggle shooting a tiny
like two inch three inch three eighty or thirty eight
special or yeah whatever, even I struggle with that, and
I don't carry it. So like when you're starting out
(31:24):
and everything and wanting to give, before you carry and stuff,
you need to learn how to shoot. So start on
a full size and then work your way down from there.
There's so many ranges across the country where you can
rent guns to test what you want, what you like.
So go and shoot a tiny gun and then go
shoot a full size and learn on the full size
and you'll see and feel the difference.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I don't even carry a tiny gun.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, I would definitely say like and the reason for
that is because the more mass that you have on
the gun, the more that mass is going to take
that recoil from you. So if you have a little gun,
like it's not much to take that recoil from you.
But if you have a bigger gun still in a
nine millimeter, it's gonna take more mass. I mean, it's
gonna the gun's gonna take more of that recoil from you.
(32:11):
You're gonna have to handle it less. Like it hurts.
It's not time shooting small these small guns small and
like we do this for a living, like it and it.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Hurts, so like it's just a physics thing.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, it definitely.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
But they're like, oh, I what this little like pink gun,
which I would I would love a pink gun. Pink
gun is not for you, ma'am right, get a full.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Size ninepence right, yeah, and you want them to keep
coming back, so start them on a full size And
I definitely recommend like a heavier gun. Like if you
look at the competitors in the top sports of shooting
and stuff, their guns are super heavy because it takes
out the recoil easier to shoot, right, So like women
(32:52):
and juniors, because that's what I mainly teaches women and
juniors who've never shot before. I start them out on
a nineteen eleven because the grip is thinner, so you
no matter what your hand size is, you can get
around that grip and hold on to it. But it's
it's steel, it's metal, so it's going to help take
out a lot of that recoil. It's a great starting point,
(33:12):
and then you can go to polymers and smaller guns
and stuff from there.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
But start on something that's easier to shoot.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, give them something and in twenty two.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Is nothing wrong with start with twenty two. Yeah, I
have a King Cobrat.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
I have three King Cobra target twenty two's that I
start all my women's classes.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
It's great.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
That's what they all start with because they get to
learn trigger control on a revolver, which is hard, and
then everything after that feels easier, the triggers at least,
and it's heavy gun twenty two.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
It's great.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, starting the right way, have some success, have some fun.
Put the start at a very close target. Yeah, no
vapor or cardboard at a very close distance. It's just
amazing to me. You know, you give a lady a
thirty eight special Snubby revolver at fifteen or twenty yards
and you're like, yeah, go shoot that target down there.
(34:06):
They can barely hit the target.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
You want to discourage them.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
We want to discourage somebody, give them some success, and
then work from there. Thanks for being on with us. Thanks,
it's been fun. Yeah, I need we need to wrap
it up because we need to get on the range
and train right.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Absolutely, all right.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
We got a bunch of people here for this experience.
That's it for us. We will see you guys next
time on Gun Talk Nation.
But on a regular basis, if I'm just getting ready
for just some area match or even nationals. Now, when
you've competed at so many world shoots, Nationals kind of
feels low key, which is crazy to say.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is guntog Nation. Gun
Talk Nation is brought to you by n RA A
ARC Blackhill's Ammunition, Mac and Range Ready. Hey, welcome in
(00:39):
a guntog nation. Today on Guntognation, we're talking with two
shooters who are both champions and what they do and
they're related. How about that? All right? Please welcome in.
Jay LEAs and Justine Williams. Welcome in.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Did I say all that right?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Something like that?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah? Yeah, so man, we have known each other for
a while, long time we did. We did an episode
of gun Talk Television coming out to Utah and my
dad filming with you guys when you were twelve thirteen. Yeah,
(01:19):
somewhere in.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
There, well till thirteen, long time ago, very long ago.
That it was like a while back, almost ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, a long time. You guys were I guess were
you pro shooters then?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
I mean there's different definitions of pro. We were always
taught that your pro once you get paid. So at
that point, like it wasn't very much, but yes, Mary's
it starts.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
With like here's a gun or here's some free m
O or something. Right then you actually like go, okay,
but I have to pay the bills, right, yeah, once.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
You have bills, right, which was about what fifteen Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
It's expensive traveling and competing.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Right, very very expensive.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It's amazing to me. I mean, we all know people
who who do it for a living or for work,
but we also know a lot of people in the
gun industry who love competing and they do it. It's
not exactly their job, but they they're like, oh, yeah,
I went to this match, went to that match, and
I mean, I've shot a little bit of competitive things,
(02:29):
but I'm not like a competitive shooter. It amazes me.
I'm like, how do you pay for all this? Like
just these guys and gals who were like, yeah, I
went to Phoenix for this thing and went out to
South Carolina for this thing.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I'm like, man, really good jobs. I assume.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
We were lucky enough that when we started so young
that my parents were very they were great parents, and
they wanted to foot the bill, and they did for
a very very long time, and they both worked incredibly
hard in order to do it. Because we were so young,
we couldn't travel by ourselves. Sure, so they had paid
for the whole family to go all the time.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Sure, and they one person.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah, so both of them working together were able to
fit the bill.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Talk about how you guys got into this, because I mean,
I have two daughters and they shoot and they're pretty
good at it, and they humor Dad, but I don't
push it real hard, and you know, like, how did
you get into this and when did you grow to
like it so much?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I mean, honestly, we've been shooting with my dad since
we were in diaper like like three and four. We
would go with him hunting. Mom would pack the diaper
bag and say, okay, go with your dad, and he
would take us hunting. But my mom always knew that
she wanted us to have a good education with all firearms.
So we knew rifles, we knew shotguns, but handguns was
(03:50):
kind of missing from our life. So she took us
to a ladies' night clinic and solely focusing on handguns,
and we absolutely loved it. We loved the people there
having that with our mom. Our dad was not into it.
He was like, why would I pay arrange to shoot
and I could just go out to the desert. So
he was actually very anti, which most people think is
(04:13):
really crazy. Usually it's the dad getting them into it,
but it was actually our mom who got us into it,
and we just kept going back and honestly like, we
loved it. We loved the people we love competing with
each other. And then finally my dad obviously caved and
started coming out, and then it became a family affair.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So talk about your first time shooting in a match.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Jayle's, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
I feel so old because I can hardly remember it.
I think it was a Tuesday Tuesday night steal. Like
my dad was still like not wanting to like support
this because like, who wants to put a full.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Size nine millimeter in eight nine and ten year old tans?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Like so right.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
So we'd gone out to the ladies clinics and stuff,
and the instructors they're like, hey, you should try the competition.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
The Tuesday Steel will walk you through it.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
My Mom's like, okay, yeah, we'll take them with their
twenty twos and we'll figure it out with them.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
And I really don't remember it. I just I just
remember the time that dad came with.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Us, which was a month or so after we star
tune Tuesday Night Steel, and like we showed up and
with our like leather everything in their twenty twoes and
everybody had their competition gear on.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
My dad's like Jamie to my mom, my mom's name
is Jamie. She was like. He was like, we don't
belong here.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
These people are like insane and they're like, shooe Tuesday Steel.
He's like, Jamie, we don't belong here, like our daughters
and stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
We don't belong here.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Really, And then we show our first stage and just
all smiles and stuff, and my dad shot and then
my dad was all smiles because the ring of the
steel just draws people in that instant feedback.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Sure, absolutely, it's the most fun.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
We like that.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Well, I mean that's what guns are, right, It's an
instance and feedback like look, I'm gonna I'm gonna pull
this this trigger, this mechanism and down there something happened.
It's like you know, a remote control, and but most people,
uh for for I mean, this is a I mean
it's a fairly male dominated world or or male skewed world,
(06:21):
and it's you don't see as many maybe more now,
maybe more women, more kids, or youth getting into it.
At what point did you start taking it seriously fairly quickly?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I think there we had an opportunity to start training,
like teaching students with a firearms training company, and I
think at that point our parents sat us down and said,
you really can do this for the rest of your life,
Like you have such a great opportunity here and it's
it's your choice. You can continue going into school, or
(06:59):
we can switch you to online school and you can
go train with them. And I think at that point
we decided, like, yes, this is what we want to do.
This is a great opportunity. We're going to capitalize on it.
And I think we were maybe thirteen fourteen at the time,
so I think at that point in our life we
were going to really just do the best that we
can with the opportunities that was provided to us to
(07:21):
make the fullest of it.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
And what an interesting place to be in the timing
of at that age, go I think this is what
I want to do. Yeah, And I mean, you guys
are doing it here.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
This is real.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Most people will probably listen to this. I mean they're
gun people, right, they're gun enthusiasts, and you're like, that
could be a job. Yes, this is a job. It's
an entire industry. Let's talk about let's fast. Well, I
do want to say this because if people are watching this,
we took off like half of the costume. But we
(07:56):
are filming this the day before Halloween. We have a
cult event, an experience happening here. You guys are here
for that, and so some people are dressed up for
Halloween today. Uh, Justine, you took off the fairy wings.
I did, but what is your costume today?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
So I like because they're saying, yeah, does she normally
wear a tutu?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
No?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I don't. I wish honestly that would be a slight.
But I'm the cult fairy. My tagline is to make
all of your shooting dreams come true with a biboty
bobbity bang.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So I loved it.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
It was like perfect, I could have all of my
shooting gear on and still look beautiful.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That's great. Kind of figure out a costume that works
for still going.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
On with Yes, yes, that is somewhat hard, and I'm
Kim Possible. I have my cult sweatshirt on right now,
but I have classic Oh I'm always cold, but I have,
of course, like the classic Kim Possible stuff on and
the red hair.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Nice. Yes, lean into the red hair.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I've leaned into the red hair for years now.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Why not? It's a unique talent. You guys both went
to South Africa? Right? How long ago? Is this about
a month?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Four weeks here? Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
We got back just about a month ago. So the
match actually happened probably a month and a half ago.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Okay, So talk about this is the World Shooting Championships.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
It's a world shoot. It's a candun world shoot.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeakay.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Talk about what was it like traveling there? I mean,
you guys have done some other international travel, I imagine,
yeah for your shooting, But talk about traveling there. What
was that like?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Well, the flight was fifteen hours, just one leg of
the flight it was fifteen hours. So that was an experience.
That's the longest spot I've ever been on. So that
was an experience for sure. Just getting there. Once you
were there, Like I personally, we were really nervous about
going there because South Africa. You don't really hear the
best things coming from there right now. So everyone going
(10:03):
there was pretty nervous. But when we got there, we
had a driver drive us from the airport to a
hotel and then the hotel to the town. We were
saying that, and then from there we drove ourselves and honestly,
like surprisingly, we felt pretty good. Like I feel like
I explained it to people, was like in certain cities
you wouldn't go out at night and like keep yourself safe,
be situationally aware and things like that. It was the
(10:25):
same thing there, honestly, like any big city, just like that. Honestly,
the food was great, it was not expensive. Everyone was
super nice.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Was this Johannesburg?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
It was like two hours side of Johahannesburg.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Okay, okay, so you traveled with your handguns? Yes, how
was that?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
It wasn't bad.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
So the the one issue we ran into was that
the South African police kept changing.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Their minds on what we could bring with guns and animals.
So is it.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
At first it was like, okay, you can only bring
two caliber of the same gun and that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
You can only bring two guns in the country.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
And then they changed it. They're like, we're lift it more.
You can bring three of the same one.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You can bring four guns total, three of them can
be the same caliber. I'm like, oh my gosh, it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
And then like a month before they're like, yeah, never mind,
we're going back to to the same caliber. And then
you can bring like one extra gun that's a different caliber.
And so a lot of people's permit like had to
get changed last minute, including mine, and so you know,
a bunch of them showed up and their permits weren't
done and so they had to spend forever the South
(11:33):
African Police like figuring it out. But that was those
a big issue, along with like getting enough AMMO there.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Originally we were supposed to have the palette which we
shipped all to one location and they were supposed to
ship it and then for some reason that didn't end
up happening. So then South African Police said we could
bring two thousand rounds, which is plenty, and then they
changed it to five hundred rounds, which isn't even enough
to cover the match behind you. So it was it
was like the match was like I think six forty
(12:03):
or something like that. It would have been yeah, so
it wasn't even enough to cover the match. Then of
course everyone was panicked. I panic bought Ammo like over there,
which you never want to use match Ammo because it's
not tested, it's not yours, it's not tuned to the gun, right,
So that was a little bit of panicked, but it
ended up being totally fine.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I used my parents as mules.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
I was like, you get five hundred and you get
five Did I get five hundred.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I've heard some stories of like the competitive shooters. Yes,
I'll tell you a funny story that I can't tell
who it is and I can't I won't give it
to any details. But a guy know, uh who won.
There's in the Middle East, there's certain shooting competitions. There's
a lot of dollars there, especially on the shotgun side.
(12:47):
He won a bunch of money and they give him cash. Oh,
they give him like this is like you know you're
in I don't you know you're in Dubai or whatever,
and yeah, here's a bunch of cash. And it's like,
I think you can only bring like ten thousand dollars
in cash.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, back with you or you have to like claim
it and claim.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
It so he did the mule thing. You get ten thousand,
you get ten thousands, you get you guys.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, oh let me tell you.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Anybody listening, look up like Middle East shotgun matches and
you're you will be blown away. I mean it is
high dollar stuff. It's wild crazy, Yeah, it's wild. But yeah,
going back to like bringing your your guns and your
AMMO to South Africa. Now, the IPSTC World Shoot. How
(13:45):
does it differ from like a big match here is
there are the stages of the is the shooting.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
It's it's very it's very similar, like the scoring and everything.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
The gear is very similar. The main difference is like
the style of stages. So IPSICK is so in the
US we shoot USPSA and IPSICK is the international version
of USPSA.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Basically, actually IPSICK started.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
In the US and since then whatever fifty years ago
or something, and a sense moved internationally. It's very very
popular internationally. But it's basically just the shooting style. So
IPSICK is more technical, like movements are very precise. They
also follow the three to one rule on stages. So
for every long course, which is thirty two rounds, every
(14:35):
long course, you have to have two mediums, which is
like twenty rounds and three short courses, which is like eight.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
To ten rounds.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Okay, So that's they follow that role where it right,
So in the US we mainly only shoot law courses,
so it's it's very different. You in the US were
very fast shooters, very quick, very.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I was gonna say, we closed my mind that the
US always does so good at these world shoots because
we are literally going in there with the least amount
of ipsick experience, the least I would say accuracy experience,
and we always walk away with like the most medals.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Okay, accuracy. So I know in general usps A people
will say, I mean, is the accuracy is important, but
it's like you can the whole hit factor or whatever,
like you can go fast and get your good enough hits.
(15:39):
Is kind of the thing around here, right, Yeah, different
different internationally.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yes, so like generally, so in USPSA, we always say
you can outrun your Charlie's So if you go fast enough.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
You can be fast enough to outrun your bad shooting. Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Exactly ipsick. It's a little bit different depending on the match.
Like you generally have to get more alphas and you
can be a little bit slower. I will say though,
that South Africa was a little bit different. The stages
were much faster paced than general ipsick matches, so it
was it was actually very tailored to like USA USPSA
(16:18):
style of shooting, so we definitely had a leg up
going into it for this one specifically.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I mean none of us expected it to be so fast,
Like all of us were making ourselves cry on our
home ranges trying to shoot like thirty yard partials and like.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Tiny steel at like forty yards.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Yeah, and then we get there, We're like, wow, we
made ourselves miserable for nothing.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And like I go, like she said, I'm I'm generally
a faster shooter, so I'm practicing everything I'm not good
at because I'm like, this is my weakness. I need
to work on what I'm good at. And I show
up and I'm like, I should have been practicing what
I was good at. This is really unfortunate. I could
have gone even faster.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Does when you look at these stages you show up
to a match like that, do you have an idea
of how fast you need to go by walking through
and looking at the stage or is it a combination
of watching the other competitors and say, hmmm, I could
go faster here, or I need to make sure I'm
going faster or this fast.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
So the really thing about IPSICK that's not in us
PSA's you actually can't walk the stages beforehand, so you
have to stay behind a line and you can only
view them from afar. You can't actually walk onto the
stage until it's your squad's turned to shoot. At that
point you'll get three minutes to make a plan. Okay,
So in IPSICK we are getting our speed of shooting
(17:40):
from basically just looking from the back to the fault
line and then judging estimated range from the fault line
to the targets, which you kind of get a hang
of after you've done it for a while. And then
also the pre match was going on, so seeing like
headcam videos or just video cameras, like you are listening
and watching them shoot quickly.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Can see you know, like a cadence, Oh I can
shoot it that fast.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, And this is the pre match. So generally the
majority of the best shooters in the world are not
even shooting during their pre match. So if the pre
match is shooting fast, you know, that like this is
a fast match, It's going to be much faster when
the main match shoots.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Let's take a quick break. After break, I'm going to
talk about all the other countries and teams that were there.
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Military Armament Corporation. So one thing I find interesting is
the US is the biggest country with this big gun culture,
(20:51):
but there are gun cultures everywhere else. And so you
guys are at this big international match, are there certain
countries or certain teams that are known for being really
good shooters or have a big gun culture.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah. Absolutely, So. One thing that is really unique when
you start to travel outside of the US for competitions
is actually they treat it way more like a regular
sport in other countries. So I've come to the conclusion
that I believe it's because everyone in the US can
pretty much have a gun, so it's not as cool.
But in other countries it's very difficult to get these guns,
(21:23):
Like the permits and the process to get these guns
are it's very difficult. So if you have one, it's
you're gonna use competitions and like you're kind of held
to a different standard. So some countries that are really
known for their shooting, as Italy. Italy has very pretty
much any team that they send, you know is gonna
be really good. Argentina has a very good production team.
(21:45):
Usually they're taking the tops in the production. Everyone always
looks out for the US obviously.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I think Brazil.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Brazil always sets a huge shooting team as well as
South Africa.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Like everywhere I.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
Go, I feel like I see a gigantic South African tea.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, so I think you have certain people like I'm
thinking of Eric that shoots for CZ. He's a fresh guy.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
He never Philippines has a pretty.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Big culture as well.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Like everywhere, they clean up pretty well. A world everyone.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Always has, just like they have their shooters who you
know if they're going like, I're gonna have to watch
out for them, right. It's really unique to see all
the countries and all of their countries. Shooters have the
pride for their own countries, like and especially during the
opening ceremony and even the closing ceremony when they're playing
the anthems for the winners. It's it's a very beautiful
(22:35):
thing to watch.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
That's neat. How many shooters do you know? How many shoots?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I think that one had eighteen hundred. Wow, there's there's
a lot. That was like the biggest world shoot ever ever.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I know Chech earlier this year, which was a different
it was PCC World shoot. That one. I think had
like twelve hundred competitors.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Very cool. And what about the gear? I mean, you
guys both shoot for cold. Does the gear differ a
lot between all the different shooters or are they or
what are there set up similar?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
It depends on the division your shooting. Everyone like everyone's like,
if you're shooting open, you're clearly using a race holster.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
I mean in I shoot single stacks, So in single
stack there is actually a pretty big difference in the
gear setup from the US to IPSICK because in IPSICK
in the US, we have a weight limit for our
guns and our mags and everything, whereas an ipsiic like
basically like any weight goes so they use bowl barrels
(23:38):
and IPSICK to keep the gun super heavy.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
In US we don't do that.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
You can use race holsters for single sack, and IPSICK
you can't.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
You have to have like a full coverage holster.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
So do you switch over to kind of make your
gun racier for you?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I So I shoot so many different shooting sports ipsick
US say, IDPA, like so many different ones that I have.
My gun is set up to be able to pass
inspection for all of them. So I never have to
try and switch my gear and switch my gun and
get used to a different gun.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Everything's just standard, gotcha, what about you?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Justin I'd also compete in a lot of different I
wouldn't say as many disciplines as she does, but I
kind of bounce back and forth between rifle and pistol
a lot like this. This past year, we've competed at
PCC World Shoot and that was like my main focus
for the past like four years. So switching back to
this pretty quickly. I was on the ladies team and
(24:33):
I've had the same exact setup for four years. I
always have the role if it ain't broke. If it's
not broke, don't fix it. I don't like messing with things,
for sure, but.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Competition shooters do tend to mess with things a lot.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
They do well. Technology is constantly changing.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Sponsors and companies are constantly coming out with new, faster,
easier gear and everything, so it does switch. I mean
gear changes every few years or something, where like it
is so obviously quicker and faster and easier.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
That you really have to switch.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
So I switched my belt set up slightly this year
than I have in the past five years because it
was so blatant.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, yeah, there are improvements.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Being which is really great.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
But like Justina and I like we shoot, we shoot
everything shotgun, rifle, PCC, a million different pistol divisions and
different sports and stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
So switching gear is really really.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Hard and keeping up with all the new gear changes
is really hard.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
So I like to say, like, we're.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Lazy professionals because we use like when it comes down
to good fundamentals and stuff, unless it's like blatantly faster
and better, Like we don't switch it because our fundamentals are.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Would be so much extra money switching everything around all
the funny.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, yeah, a good point. Yeah yeah. So how often
do you guys train? I mean, how often do you
like pulling trigger? Is it every day? Every week?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I would say it depends on like the upcoming matches.
So I would definitely say this year specifically because we
had two world shoots, it was probably the most amount
of AMMO I've shot in my entire career really because
there was two and they were completely different rifle versus pistol.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
They were a few months apart. Yeah, they were part
which is crazy, so much worse.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, So I would say, like leading up to those matches,
I was shooting four or five times a week for
three to four hours a day plus gym time. But
on a regular basis. If I'm just getting ready for
just some area match or even nationals. Now, when you've
competed at so many world shoots, Nationals kind of feels
low key. It does, which is crazy to say, like
(26:49):
I don't get really nervous to nationals and Anyone'm like
other nationals. Sure, but I would say, just regular matches,
like two maybe three times a week, just make maintenance,
nothing crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Do you guys teach people how to shoot?
Speaker 4 (27:03):
You do?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
We each own our own training companies.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Okay, So what are the common questions or the things
that you see when people come in and you're teaching
someone shooting? I mean, is this more specific towards competition
or is this just I'm trying to learn how to
run a pistol.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I would say it depends on who you're teaching. I
mostly specialize in competition shooting specifically. The biggest question I
get is how do I shoot fast like you?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Nobody's as fast as her. I would say this bullet
trigger faster question mark.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I don't know. It's like it's an acquired skill over time.
You have to have really good fundamentals, obviously, whether that's
rifle or pistol. It's a big thing. We were talking
about actually at the class this weekend where people were like, man,
I can't see the Do'm like, it's your fundamentals. You
can only shoot as quickly as you can see the
dot or the sites on the target, right, So the
better you're fundamentals, it's the way you're going to see correct,
(28:00):
correct absolutely where it's like, man, did you see your dough?
I'm like, on that target, no, it's five yards, But
on a twenty yard target, you bet, I'm seeing everything
at that distance. It's just just like understanding your game
and the more you shoot, the more you dry fire,
the better you're gonna get over time.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I mean, how does is? Are there certain things that
you would tell people like if you want to start
being able to shoot faster, do do this thing or
do a couple of these things.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, definitely tell them to focus on their grip. Like
the grip, you can get a lot. You can get
away with a lot with your stance, which is awful
to say, but it's not awful to say.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Like our stance is supposed to be moveable and adgestable,
like we can shoot on one leg and control the
recoil with our stance because we've made our stance so
mobile and our body adjusts naturally to it.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
As long as you have a good grip like you can,
you can control a lot of that recoil. Obviously, the
better your stance is, the even better you're gonna get.
But if you don't have a good grip, you'll never
be able to hit targets quickly. So that's the first
answer you got to fix sure grip.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Do people grip the gun tight enough in general or
in general they don't, it's.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Not in my opinion, It's not really about like having
a stranglehold on your gun with your grip. It's about
applying pressure points to certain spots on the gun with
your grip. Because the last thing you want to do
is shoot one hundred rounds and be exhausted, like your
muscles and stuff be exhausted from shooting after only one
hundred rounds. It's having biomechanical efficiency of your grip and
(29:34):
your stance and everything coming together so you can shoot
a thousand and then feel tired after that.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
So applying in.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Those certain spots, and that's how we were able to
shoot at ninety ten years old and start competing and stuff.
Is because we learn that very early on and learned
how to control the gun with no muscle mask because
nineteen year olds they.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Don't have muscle masks.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Is that strong.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
We're very sure we do not have great gene. So
we're just short, small, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
These ladies aren't five eleven you oh, no, five.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Foot you know.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Every time I would grow, like when I was growing up,
I'm like, man, I hope to get a five foot
reach five and man, I hope to get to five
to one. I got the five four. I'm like, man,
I hope to get five to five and I've never
gotten to five five.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That's just that's it.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
That's all. It's gonna be.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Short for sure.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So people will say, oh, my wife, my girlfriend needs
a gun, and I'm gonna or even and I'm not.
I'll throw everybody under the bus on this one. And
he'll say, well, I'm gonna get her this little uh,
this little revolver. Or women will say the same thing, Yeah,
I don't know, I need to get a gun. I'm
(30:45):
gonna I'm gonna get this little pocket sized three eighty
or a revolver or something like that, because they're thinking
this is going to be more manageable, and and they're not.
It's they're not perhaps as scared of shooting it. But
what do you tell people, because I know you get
that question all.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
The time, very common misconception. Okay, So like me, I've
obviously I'm a pro shooter and stuff. I shoot forty fives,
nines and everything, and even I struggle shooting a tiny
like two inch three inch three eighty or thirty eight
special or yeah whatever, even I struggle with that, and
I don't carry it. So like when you're starting out
(31:24):
and everything and wanting to give, before you carry and stuff,
you need to learn how to shoot. So start on
a full size and then work your way down from there.
There's so many ranges across the country where you can
rent guns to test what you want, what you like.
So go and shoot a tiny gun and then go
shoot a full size and learn on the full size
and you'll see and feel the difference.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I don't even carry a tiny gun.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, I would definitely say like and the reason for
that is because the more mass that you have on
the gun, the more that mass is going to take
that recoil from you. So if you have a little gun,
like it's not much to take that recoil from you.
But if you have a bigger gun still in a
nine millimeter, it's gonna take more mass. I mean, it's
gonna the gun's gonna take more of that recoil from you.
(32:11):
You're gonna have to handle it less. Like it hurts.
It's not time shooting small these small guns small and
like we do this for a living, like it and it.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Hurts, so like it's just a physics thing.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, it definitely.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
But they're like, oh, I what this little like pink gun,
which I would I would love a pink gun. Pink
gun is not for you, ma'am right, get a full.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Size ninepence right, yeah, and you want them to keep
coming back, so start them on a full size And
I definitely recommend like a heavier gun. Like if you
look at the competitors in the top sports of shooting
and stuff, their guns are super heavy because it takes
out the recoil easier to shoot, right, So like women
(32:52):
and juniors, because that's what I mainly teaches women and
juniors who've never shot before. I start them out on
a nineteen eleven because the grip is thinner, so you
no matter what your hand size is, you can get
around that grip and hold on to it. But it's
it's steel, it's metal, so it's going to help take
out a lot of that recoil. It's a great starting point,
(33:12):
and then you can go to polymers and smaller guns
and stuff from there.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
But start on something that's easier to shoot.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, give them something and in twenty two.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Is nothing wrong with start with twenty two. Yeah, I
have a King Cobrat.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
I have three King Cobra target twenty two's that I
start all my women's classes.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
It's great.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
That's what they all start with because they get to
learn trigger control on a revolver, which is hard, and
then everything after that feels easier, the triggers at least,
and it's heavy gun twenty two.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
It's great.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, starting the right way, have some success, have some fun.
Put the start at a very close target. Yeah, no
vapor or cardboard at a very close distance. It's just
amazing to me. You know, you give a lady a
thirty eight special Snubby revolver at fifteen or twenty yards
and you're like, yeah, go shoot that target down there.
(34:06):
They can barely hit the target.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
You want to discourage them.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
We want to discourage somebody, give them some success, and
then work from there. Thanks for being on with us. Thanks,
it's been fun. Yeah, I need we need to wrap
it up because we need to get on the range
and train right.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Absolutely, all right.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
We got a bunch of people here for this experience.
That's it for us. We will see you guys next
time on Gun Talk Nation.
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