December 15, 2025 • 36 mins
Gun Talk Hunt host KJ is joined by Gun Talk’s Gary Killingsworth (Oregon) and Hodgdon Powders’ Aaron Oger (Missouri) for a candid conversation about how unseasonably warm weather is impacting deer hunting strategies across the country. From drastic temperature swings to nocturnal bucks and delayed rut behavior, this episode dives deep into the challenges hunters are facing this season — and how to adapt.
Aaron and Gary also discuss gear picks like the Sig CROSS rifle, Savage 110 Carbon Predator, Stable Match powders, Badlands Gear, and layering hacks that make or break an all-day sit.
This Gun Talk Hunt is brought to you by Savage Arms, Hodgdon Powders, Range Ready Studios, Ruger, Remington Ammo, and ZEISS.
About Gun Talk Hunt
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Hunt, with Kevin “KJ” Jarnagin, pairs decades of experience with today’s latest tools and technology to help you succeed in the field. Whether it runs or flies - no matter what game you pursue - Gun Talk Hunt is a multi-platform podcast that gives today’s hunters a voice in the digital world.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Hunt 12.15.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Aaron and Gary also discuss gear picks like the Sig CROSS rifle, Savage 110 Carbon Predator, Stable Match powders, Badlands Gear, and layering hacks that make or break an all-day sit.
This Gun Talk Hunt is brought to you by Savage Arms, Hodgdon Powders, Range Ready Studios, Ruger, Remington Ammo, and ZEISS.
About Gun Talk Hunt
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Hunt, with Kevin “KJ” Jarnagin, pairs decades of experience with today’s latest tools and technology to help you succeed in the field. Whether it runs or flies - no matter what game you pursue - Gun Talk Hunt is a multi-platform podcast that gives today’s hunters a voice in the digital world.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Hunt 12.15.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for heating up, but that might not be what
we want this time of the year. Man, we're talking
about those drastic weather changes. Here on Gun Talk Hunt.
I'm kJ. You found the right place. We go all
over this little blue orb sharing stories and tactics about
chasing wild gang. Now let's get on the honey. Welcome
(00:26):
in all you gun Talk hunters. I am your host, kJ,
and we've got a great one today. You know, it's
been unseasonably warm this season. I've had a little bit
of difficulty, but you've got to manipulate those plans and
get them around so you can tag your buck this season.
And we're going to talk about how to do that
and where to go from there. This hunt is brought
to you by Savage Arms, Hodgesen, Powders, Range, Ready Studios,
(00:49):
Ruger and Remington AMO. Thank you for all our sponsors.
And today, man, we're going all the way up to
Oregon and all the way down to Missouri, and we've
got Gary Killingsworth and we've got Aaron Olger.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Welcome in Gary.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
We're going to start with you all the way on
the east coast, our west coast, I guess the northwest.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, the northwest north northwest.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, so man, we talk about we talk about like
weather patterns and how you you're patterning deer based on
a lot of you know, that movement of weather. Like
typically this time of the year, it's shifting, it's getting colder,
and we haven't really experienced it down here. How you've
(01:35):
been on some recent hunts. How has the movement been
for you?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
You know, what's what's been funny about this year so
far is that even on a single hunt, the weather
can change from day to day so drastically, like thirty
to forty degree swings. That's what I That's what I've
experienced quite quite a bit, so for day to day
(02:01):
trying to pattern movement.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Yeah, it's been it's been tricky.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, it's been tricky.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
You look at like so like it's funny you mentioned
like a thirty degree swing during the day. But what
I've experienced, and maybe what Aaron Olger has experienced, is
we've experienced those shifts too, but it goes from like
low maybe mid fifties all the way up to like
eighty five degrees. Like those are the kind of shifts
(02:26):
that we're talking about. Like, it's just it's just off
man this and I the more I look at the past,
like logs that I have in like you know, a
binder that I keep on on tracking weather and deer
and everything else, it's like this year seems to be dry,
and it is.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It's just warm.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
And how you manipulate your plans is going to dictate
your outcome.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So how do you how do you.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Approach those drastic weather changes that you're experiencing.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So obviously you're you're kind of you're you're dealing with
the cards that you've been dealt obviously, So there's and
it's especially here in the in the West where for
the most part for me, I'm I'm I'm traveling across
the state for at least early fall.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Hunts and so.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, trying to plan, okay, is how is the temperature
gonna dip? Where's the snow level? How much snow are
we going to get? Because until it snows or rains
a little bit, especially on the east side of the
state of Oregon, everything is crunchy. Everything is crunchy, And
(03:45):
especially when you start dealing with deer that whether they
are crossing over between mule deer and blacktails. Blacktails are
I mean until the rut. They are nocturnal and so
obviously very they're very sensitive the noise sent things like that.
(04:05):
But they will stay i mean the bucks until it's
time to tell it's time to chase O's I mean
they will, they'll stay bettered down, they'll stay nocturnal. And
so you're thinking about ways in which you can you know,
crunch through the woods or the open planes to try
to hopefully maybe push them around a little bit until
(04:26):
you start getting you start getting some snowfall or a
little bit of rain, that'll get them a little bit
more active.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
But so to answer your question as far as a plan,
it is just be prepared to be nimble. It's going
to adjust a lot and know what you're going to
do the next day. If you've got a full moon
or even a partial moon the night.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Before, yeah, I they're going to go into the seeking phase.
And so they're just they're moving around a little bit more.
You're dealing with like nocturnal bucks. I mean, that's just
that's a difficult thing to start with. I mean, dealing
with nocturnal bucks, whether it's moon related, whether it's you know,
(05:08):
pressures or or heat. What I'm finding is I always say,
and we had a conversation about this a few weeks ago,
is the you know, always the rout going to be early?
You know, is it going to be you know, is
it going to be a delayed run?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, And typically it's the same. It's gonna be around
the same time like every year, like because those and
whether it is hot. What I have found, whether it
is a hot year or it's an oddly cold year
for us in Oklahoma, those bucks are going to be
doing their thing around the same time, no matter temperature.
(05:47):
But it's tougher mentally, I think on hunters because you
sit there and you're like, man, I'm hunting in shorts again,
or you know, I'm hunting in a T shirt and
I shouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And so that's one thing that.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I I start to like look at, is like, Okay,
they're gonna be doing their thing. You just got to
be in the woods. But where are you starting to look?
Are you starting to look towards that mass that's dropping?
You know, are those acorns dropping? Is that what they're in?
Are they in? You know the white oaks? Like where
are they like? Where are they concentrating and moving because
(06:23):
deer don't like nocturnal deer, what you're dealing with, like
they are going to get up and either stretch during
the day or they're going to get up and move
and maybe browse around and then go back to that
bedding area.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So that's the.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Areas that I think you're going to have to start targeting,
is those transition periods, those transition areas between like their
morning movement, which is they've got to eat, Like deer
are going to eat every day, They're going to like
it's just a fact, like they're going to eat, So
what are they eating on? So I think if you
identify that and identify the bedding area, like, you'll probably
(07:01):
be in a better situation to harvest those nocturnal bucks.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Oh, that absolutely makes sense. So out out here lots
of uh, there's been lots of burns over the last
you know, decade or so, so lots of regrowth or
reprod and in general and betting areas, you'll find anywhere
from the really thick, deep stuff which is almost unhuntable
(07:26):
out of here, but sometimes ten yards off of you know,
a clear cut or a draw.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
And so it's getting if you can getting.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
To those glassing areas and look looking for you know,
ear flickers or just any anything that is a little
bit different. They'll stay tucked down, but they are going
to get up. They may they may pop out for
you know, two minutes a day.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, you need to you need to be there.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
But they they don't always talk back in really really
deep Okay.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
They'll kind of they'll they'll they'll hang around where they
where they feel comfortable.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
And another thing out here, definitely is the best way
to see deer.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Is get an ELK tag.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
You'll see lots of deer. Yeah, see lots of deer,
which I just just did on an ELK hunt. Saw
saw saw shooter bucks every single day.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Out of out of season.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
But well of course watch them.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So yeah, that's like, So I'm sitting there and it
was another one. It was right before No, it was
during you season. My kids weren't old enough to hunt.
So we go out and we go bow hunt, and
and I'm sitting there on the field edge and this
is how it always happens. Like all of a sudden,
I look out in the field and there's just this
(08:46):
mega I mean, he is he is one of the
largest white til I've ever seen on hoof, and I
wasn't I didn't even have my bow with me.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I was recording my buddy who it was.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
You know, we always did that, you take turn, like
all right, you get this hunt, I'll take the next hunt.
And this mega just steps out on this wheat field
and he is he is one hundred and twenty yards away.
And I would have slung an arrow, I swear if
I would have had one, But he steps out. It's
this way all the time, like he steps out the
(09:18):
most inopportune time.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
But I wouldn't say.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Man, he probably would have scored if I was guessing,
like this is a like free range. This isn't on
any high fence, but he was probably a good one
eighty at least. And that's the largest like sight on
scene free range year. That's one of the largest deer
I've ever seen on the hoof. Worst timing ever, of course, Yeah,
(09:44):
one leak later, I would have had him with a muzzleoder.
But it always happened now, but seed that year it
was warm too, it was unseasonably warm, but he had
to eat like he was and it was that time
where those deers start moving around.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, their bodies, their bodies telling them, telling them what
to do, regardless of what I think what the temperature says.
But I do think there's something to how it is
going to impact the movement in activity.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I mean it has it has to like they have
to be moving.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
They their their timeline is ticking on what their bodies
are because like you have to think like leading up
to the chase, like they are consuming whatever they can
to get that energy. Because have you ever seen a
buck at the end of a like a running season. Dude,
they are emaciated. They look horrible.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I mean they look like they've been run through the ringer.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
And they really nocturnal.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Then yeah, so those early seasons, they've got to eat.
They've got to pack on those pounds.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
It's like a largemouth bass or in the winter, like
reading or leading up to the spawn, they're going to
have to eat, like it's just just a fact.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Well, and trying and trying to watch watering areas too,
if it's if it's unseasonably warm. Are they're spending more
time than making trips? Are they staying longer?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, it's it's all it's all a process. But uh, hey,
we're gonna bring you back on here in a little bit,
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Speaker 2 (14:24):
All right, we're back. Aaron olger Man.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Uh, you're a busy guy, Hodgden, Powders, RCBS, you kind.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Of do it all there. But you're also one of
the more hardcore hunters. I know.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
You hunt all over the place, Kansas and Missouri, and
you're you're a Midwestern big buck hunter, and we talked
about this briefly the other day, Like, man, it's just
it's kind of warm out, Like what are you doing
to combat that?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
What are you doing in your planning?
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Yeah, it's been a struggle. So we're right now, we're
what two thirds over way through November, so our entire
season in the Midwest so far, we've been averaging fifteen
to twenty degrees above average, which for a gear hunter,
that's really tough, and so it's been a challenge for us.
We've worked around it. You know, I have a lot
(15:18):
of experience hunting in warmer conditions, and I understand how
to how to still get out and do what I
need to do. But definitely you're dealing with things that
I don't. You know, I have lots of cold weather gear.
I don't have a lot to sit in the tree
stand when it's you know, seventy five or any degree.
So that that's been a bit of a challenge, but
we're still working around it.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, Like it is funny because I like I transition
out closed. It's like it's rare that I have to
pick up my turkey, my spring turkey hunting clothes to
hunt white tail deer in November. But I found myself
doing that and I don't like to I really don't
like to do that because it's like I don't feel
the patterns match the terrain because it's a transitioning period
(15:58):
into the spring and it's more green. But going back
to Gary and I's conversation on, like, deer gonna move
like they have to move, but their movements might be
a little bit slower. You're not going to see that
heavy chasing, and the deer health is going to deteriorate
(16:19):
quicker during these hot months.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Are you noticed in the same thing.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
We are. And there's a couple of ways to combat that, right,
So when it's hot like it is, hunt over or
at least buy water sources because they've got any more
water than they're normally going to need ad mid to
late November, So I think that's important. I think another
factor is you got to hunt their food patterns. These
deer are all food to bed bed of food. Catch
(16:45):
them in between. So we're hunting, you know, near bedding
cover that is overlooking food plots. So when we're going out,
we're we're sitting near food plots, but where we can
see enough bedding cover, and you're going to see them
really early, you're going to see them really late. We
were on a beanfield Sunday night in the middle of
(17:06):
Missouri and we had deer that all came out right
at shooting light. We were trying this spot, you know,
four hundred yards away. We're trying to figure out which
deer walked in front of us, you know at four
hundred yards. Well it's you know, two minutes left illegal
shooting light. That's that's a that's a tough way to go.
But they are still moving. It's just you got to
(17:27):
be in the right place.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
At the right time. Yeah, they this late movement.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I absolutely hate it because it's always like I always
remember it, like you season, so our U season is
like mid October, and so in daylight saving time is
still a thing. So those deer don't come out until
like seven ten if the sun's like if the last
shooting light it's at seven to eleven, they're stepping out
(17:52):
at seven ten. Like, It's just how it is for
that U season, and it makes it really difficult, and
you start thinking about like the gear.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
You start talking about the gear that you're using.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You know, whether it's like you got to have a
good glass because the later they start stepping out.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I mean, you've got.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
To have great glass, like something that takes in a
lot of light like it have said of like twelve
by fifties or something like that. Like so you start
looking at stuff like that and it's it's just a
difficult process. But we can shift over a little bit
towards gear because you've been hunting with a gun that
we had talked about a couple of years ago. That's
of it is one of my favorites and one that
(18:33):
I use every year. Talk a little bit about the
gear that you're using, and when Gary comes back in,
I do want to have a conversation with both of
you guys on how you dress for those big changes
and swings.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Sure, yeah, I switched over. I guess I didn't switch over,
but I added a SIG cross in really to my
to my rifle safe last year.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I guess.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
So I did it because I had some friends at
SIG and they trumpeted the rifle and I thought, you know, hey,
I'll be a good consumer, a good friend. I'll buy
one of those, play around with it a little bit,
and then probably sell it and move on I'm not
selling that rifle. I've been really impressed with the platform.
You know, I set it up like I set up
(19:22):
all my rifles. I run the same scope, the same
can on all my rifles. And that rifle has been
really neat because you know, you fold the stock up,
but you stick in your backpack and you're it's really
easy walk to and from the stand. I like the
way that it shoots. It for a light as rifles
it is, the recalls really manageable. It's just a really
(19:45):
good platform that I think that sig did a great job.
I think that's a home run. So I've been really
impressed with that rifle, and I'm going to be I've
shot it, you know, sighting it in and then playing
around at two hundred yards. I'm going to start ringing
it out in the springtime. Just I take that rifle
is a lot more potential than what I probably gave it.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I think. I think it absolutely does.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I have a funny story about my cross, so I'm
getting it ready. The neighbor kid that I took hunting
that was on the show a couple of weeks ago,
that's what he shot his first buck with. And I
was like we went out and shot five hundred yards
with him with that gun. It's in six or five
(20:28):
creed more, and he absolutely fell in love with it,
and I'm like, okay, So when we were actually going
out on the hunt a couple of weeks later, I
went ahead and shot it out here with Chris Sereno,
and I I wasn't happy with the grouping, like it
hasn't really grouped that well, and I had it customed
Sarah coated and it's like a you know, Ode Green
(20:50):
It's it's a beautiful rifle. I did not and I
took for granted the guy that Sarah co did it.
It was not someone that I normally use. Every single
bolt on that gun was loose, but nothing it was.
It was like hand tight. There was no he didn't
(21:12):
tighten it to speck or anything. He just he just
sit there and just went, ah, that's good enough, like
all of them. So I had to take the I
took the whole thing apart down to the like the
bare bones of that gun, just to check the torque
settings on every single screw. And now it's back to
shooting like a like a little laser. So sure, always
(21:35):
check your torqu speccing s spec before you get out, and
then someone messes with your gun.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Maybe he was doing it to mess with me. I
don't know, But so let's let's transition back.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
That was our kind of product talk for a second.
But the later we go, it is going to get colder.
I promise guys, there's reprieve coming. When do the these
guys need to be in the woods after the heat wave?
Like so when like is it the first day that
a cold front hits. Do you find more success on
(22:10):
a cold front hit or do you find it a
couple of days later.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
For me, it's usually right around the cold front. So
leading up and then right after the cold front is
when I like hunting. But you know, let's be honest,
I'm just like any other guy out there. I'm managing
my vacation so that you know, I fun and I
think nine days in the last two weeks, so this
is when I take all my vacation right because I
(22:35):
want to be in the woods. And so for me,
the right time to be in a stand is in
the morning and in the evening and in the middle
of the day. So that's just kind of how I
manage things. But everybody can't be that way. I get it.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, but you're setting. You're setting all day during this
time of the year, Like this is the time where
you just hey, pack a lunch, pack some snacks, your
favorite snacks, sit all day because you never know what's
going to happen.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Yeah, you know, I t have a lot of creek
and river bottoms, and we I deal with thermals and
swirling winds, and I have found that I do have
to move in the middle of day. I may stay
out all day, but I'm going to have to move
stands just to keep up with the wall even when
I'm rifle hunting.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
So I know a lot of guys think you don't
need to worry about that, but I think you need
to worry about that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
No, No, here's the deal. I never, like, I used
to be the guy.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Who was like like adamant about you know, spraying your
clothes down.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
And I never like got into my hunting.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Clothes until I was like at the hunting stand and
I change outside my truck in the twenty degree you know,
wind blown Oklahoma. You know Chris morning, And I'm not
that way more. I'm always hunt the wind. You have
to hunt the wind. I don't care what I've got on. Like,
if I hunt the wind correctly, you're going to be
more successful. And that's man, this is a whole other
(23:56):
conversation because thermals are a thing. Like thermals like if
you're not paying attention of what they're doing during the day, right,
you could be in trouble.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Yeah, we deal with that a lot. And honestly, I
still am the guy who, like, I don't do it
every day, but I have one of those sick crusher
closets and every other day, every other time I wear them,
I crush my clothes. You know, I very particular about
how I put the clothes on and how I spray
everything down. And I'm not sponsored to have nothing to
(24:28):
do with those shammer, but man, those jammer are the boots.
I'm absolutely convinced.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Really, I've been alla way.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
For smell man. Deer follow you around. They have no
idea that you're a human being. So I'm still very
conscious of sit protection.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, but you have to pay it.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Play the wind, yeah, all that right, and you can
still screw up the wind.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
See.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
My problem is that I've I've been I've been more successful,
just as just as successful. Like when I don't, like
do all the scent crushing thing in the scent blocker
and all that stuff, and when I except, like now
I hunt the wind, it's like I'm just as successful.
So why like I don't, I don't stress myself as much.
(25:11):
You know, now, if I'm going into public spot, I'm
a little bit more particular because I know, like, who
knows what's happening in there?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Like I don't know, but.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
No I get it. But I'm not very smart, so
I need every advantage I can.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Fine, I will say this, you kill a lot of
big bucks, like bigger than what I'm killing, So I
will say that whatever you're doing, keep it up.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Yeah, I will say. When we talk about, you know,
warm weather, this feels very unseasonably warm to me this year,
just because we really haven't gotten any cold weather in
Missouri where I've been hunting. But you know, I kill
my biggest buck in my life four years ago in
Kansas on an eighty two degree day in the first
week of December. So you know, yeah, this isn't great,
(25:59):
but it happens. And you know, again, the deer still moved.
That deer jumped over the fence into the property that
I was hunting with five minutes left and legal shooting light,
and he was dead thirty seconds later.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So you know, rightfully, So the whole trip.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
Right, And you've got to be ready because at any
moment you're you're time can change. And you know, all
day long, I'd been in a redneck gilly wine and
I was in shorts and a T shirt, no boots,
no shoes, no nothing, just because it was so hot. Yeah,
and you think that nothing's going to move, and then
you know, here I am scrambling at the end of
(26:37):
the at the end of the hunting light, I'm scrambling
to get that buck shot. But again, the biggest buck
I've ever shot. So anything can happen when you're in
the woods.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, it can happen. It might happen late, but it
definitely could happen. All right, let's.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Bring Gary back in any final you know, thoughts that
you have or any any comments that you want to introduce.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Man, now's your time.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, you guys were you guys were talking about gear
and and uh and how to dress as far as
the varying weather temps and for me, especially out here,
with the with the swings and the wind, and it's
it's layers.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, I am.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
I am all about layers. I keep it.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
I can't actually keep all layers really light because I do.
I'm kind of the same with with Aaron Is. I
sit in the morning, I sit at night, and pretty
active during the day and we have we have to
carry rain gear out here, so lightweight rain gear in
the pack all the time and just being ready to
(27:41):
throw it on so I'm not having to go back
to camp or or bail for any reason.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
But you're like, so your pack is I mean, your
pack has to be bigger. What pack are you running?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I'm running the bad Lands the Vario frame, and then
I've got two different, two different packs. It's got a
thirty three in a twenty two just depending on what
I'm doing, I'll strap that on. It's awesome.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
The other thing I added this year to gear that
I had actually never used before, never thought I needed it,
was gators. Yeah, and I just I kind of just
you know, poop pooed them like, didn't didn't need them.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
But it was a game changer for me.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
I was afraid they'd be they'd be loud, i'd be
you know, whistling through the woods.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
There's a huge comfort, huge comfort saver.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And with the you know, the amount of different vegetation
you're kind of blasting through, you know, protecting your boots,
protecting your pants, keeping your pants from swishing. Yeah right,
that's another one.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
So yeah, yeah, just lot.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
And you know, every single hunt, I will overpack my
my pack no matter what, just because they're like gear
and they're like bringing.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
It all with me.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
Yeah, I mean I want to be uncomfortable without.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Exactly if I leave something out to stay lighter, it'll
be the thing I needed.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Oh yeah, inevitably.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So on the really cold days you talk about on
the big swings in like cold days, I'm talking like,
you know, you start out and it's like ten degrees
and so you're sitting in the stand. You want to
make you want to make it as late as possible,
and I think layering is one hundred percent right, But
I will have you guys heard of like the slumberjack,
Like have you heard of that? So it's it's like
(29:39):
I think the Arctic oven like or I forget Arctic
shield makes one or something like that. But it's almost
like a sleeping bag with a hood and it has
magnetic sleeves, so like you can just come out of it.
It's like a sleeping.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Bag and it just covers you.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, oh my gosh, that's a game changer if you're
sitting in a tree.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
It's amazing.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
They can compressible enough to like tossing a pack.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And yeah, it's like I mean it compresses you know,
like the size of a maybe a football or something
like that.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
But it's super warm.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
It's like you're in a sleeping bag and you just
have your you know, hands in there, and you got
your hot pockets in there or whatever, you got your
hot hands.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
It's well, you look cool. Yeah, you look cool.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
That's the main thing.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
No, you do not look cool. You look like an
overstuffed burrito. Sit at the top of the tree. That's right.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
Those little I think Arctic Shield makes those booties as well,
that go it kind of overboats. Have you seen those?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Oh I have a and they are magic man.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Yeah, yeah, I like those a lot. I carry a
little cardboard and put that underneath your boots and then
put those around your boots and stand on the cardboard
in a tree stand. It's yeah, that's a way better
way to do it than when Ice first started hunting
in the early eighties.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So oh yeah, like you just hope.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I think I was probably wearing cowboy boots at that time,
like just hoping my you wouldn't freeze to death, you know.
But yeah, those arctic child like boots. I think a
lot of it is the wind. I think just the
wind getting in there and and hitting your your boots. Man,
it just once your feet go and once your head
goes like cold, like it's like I'm done.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
It's it's hard to recover.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Feet in hands. That's what shortens a lot of days.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, yeah, it's I mean those there's all kinds of
gear out there, but like we're trying. What we're trying
to do is like shorten your learning curve, like learn
from the old guys.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Like and that's great.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
That's what it's so frustrating is like, man, I wish
I would have listened to all those guys when I
was young, and I never did.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Ye. But yeah, so what gators are you running? Uh?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Also bad lands? Uh, bad lands They're they're called master gators,
which is amazing, amazing naming master gators.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
They're Yeah, they're awesome. Easy to put on, super secure
really like them.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, that's awesome, Aaron. Let's head over to you.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Let's uh, let's get you involved a little bit more.
What are your some of your final thoughts, like, what
are you what are you thinking?
Speaker 5 (32:15):
Yeah? I think in years like this, Uh, you know,
I sit in the deer stand and I'm constantly looking
at what's in front of me. What's what do I
like about this stand? Do I need to move it?
Do I need a different height? Do I need to
be closer to bedding, closer to food? You know? So
I think, you know, don't just don't just sit there.
I think a lot of guys get bored and they
want to bring a I've heard of guys bringing an
(32:37):
iPad and watching YouTube videos or movies or whatever. I
can't do that.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I'm not.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
I'm just not wired that way. But I think use
your time in the stand well, like, just be looking around, observing,
figure out how to do it better for next year.
You know, same thing with gear. I keep a running
list of what I'm happy with and what I want
to change for next year. You know, I'm glad I
tried that sig out. During the summertime I played around
(33:04):
quite a bit with different loads, trying to make sure
that I knew what bullet I wanted to run powder
worked well, you know, you were talking about hot and
cold mornings. We came out with that stable line of
powders under our Winchester brand ten years ago now, and
I'm raning Stayble Match in a in a three to
(33:25):
eight bullet. And the nice thing about that is you
don't have to worry about is it cold or is
it hot. It's going to shoot to the same point
of impact.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
And I'm a fan of using technology where it makes
sense and where it can work for you. And that's
one of those products that really works for me, that
Stayble Match with a with a Barns tts X bullet.
I'm a that shoots really well out of my sig Cross.
I don't know if it will shoot well out of everybody's,
(33:53):
but it shoots really well out of my And that's
something that just makes gearfall over.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
And I can appreciate that weight on that stable.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
I'd have to look. I think I'm running forty four
point something. Yeah, of grains that shooting about you know what,
I don't even remember what the velocity is on that.
But yeah, that's it's worked really well for me. Hundred
and sixty eight green TSX bullet that works, and you know,
(34:25):
really happy with that combination.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
I'm telling you, like the sensitive like powders out there,
if you run them, you're really taking your hunt into
your own hands, like at that point. If if it's
temperature sensitive, that's why like this is like you talk
about the stable being temperature insensitive, like it's not as
(34:49):
subject to the temperatures as most other powders. And and
when you guys develop that, we tested out on the
six y five cree More and it shoots lights out.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
It shoots just as good as any other.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
Yeah, yeah, I'm really happy with that line of powders.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Well especially, I mean we're talking about these, you know,
the big out in organ big temperature swings. You might
have like nice clear skies in the morning and then
all of a sudden you're you're wading through two feet
deep snow to get your next set. Like when you're
talking about weather swings like that, your powder better be
on point right, so.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
And the rest of your gear as well. Right, temperature swings,
That's why what Gary said about layerings, right you always
have to have We got a pitch of rain on
Sunday night, you gotta have ring gear with you.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Well, especially we've we've heard all those horror stories of
guys getting trapped on the mountain and not making it
back out, and you know, if they would have just
packed you know, X gear like whatever, it would be like.
I mean, man, there's a there's a level of danger
that goes into every time you go out.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
You're going out by.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yourself typically, like there's a level of like you got
to put some thought into this.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
Yeah, yeah, I agree for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
All Right, guys, Well, I sure to appreciate you guys,
and you guys know the drill, keep those muscles point
in a safe direction and always be on the hunt.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
H
Thanks for heating up, but that might not be what
we want this time of the year. Man, we're talking
about those drastic weather changes. Here on Gun Talk Hunt.
I'm kJ. You found the right place. We go all
over this little blue orb sharing stories and tactics about
chasing wild gang. Now let's get on the honey. Welcome
(00:26):
in all you gun Talk hunters. I am your host, kJ,
and we've got a great one today. You know, it's
been unseasonably warm this season. I've had a little bit
of difficulty, but you've got to manipulate those plans and
get them around so you can tag your buck this season.
And we're going to talk about how to do that
and where to go from there. This hunt is brought
to you by Savage Arms, Hodgesen, Powders, Range, Ready Studios,
(00:49):
Ruger and Remington AMO. Thank you for all our sponsors.
And today, man, we're going all the way up to
Oregon and all the way down to Missouri, and we've
got Gary Killingsworth and we've got Aaron Olger.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Welcome in Gary.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
We're going to start with you all the way on
the east coast, our west coast, I guess the northwest.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, the northwest north northwest.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, so man, we talk about we talk about like
weather patterns and how you you're patterning deer based on
a lot of you know, that movement of weather. Like
typically this time of the year, it's shifting, it's getting colder,
and we haven't really experienced it down here. How you've
(01:35):
been on some recent hunts. How has the movement been
for you?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
You know, what's what's been funny about this year so
far is that even on a single hunt, the weather
can change from day to day so drastically, like thirty
to forty degree swings. That's what I That's what I've
experienced quite quite a bit, so for day to day
(02:01):
trying to pattern movement.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Yeah, it's been it's been tricky.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, it's been tricky.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
You look at like so like it's funny you mentioned
like a thirty degree swing during the day. But what
I've experienced, and maybe what Aaron Olger has experienced, is
we've experienced those shifts too, but it goes from like
low maybe mid fifties all the way up to like
eighty five degrees. Like those are the kind of shifts
(02:26):
that we're talking about. Like, it's just it's just off
man this and I the more I look at the past,
like logs that I have in like you know, a
binder that I keep on on tracking weather and deer
and everything else, it's like this year seems to be dry,
and it is.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It's just warm.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
And how you manipulate your plans is going to dictate
your outcome.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So how do you how do you.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Approach those drastic weather changes that you're experiencing.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So obviously you're you're kind of you're you're dealing with
the cards that you've been dealt obviously, So there's and
it's especially here in the in the West where for
the most part for me, I'm I'm I'm traveling across
the state for at least early fall.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Hunts and so.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, trying to plan, okay, is how is the temperature
gonna dip? Where's the snow level? How much snow are
we going to get? Because until it snows or rains
a little bit, especially on the east side of the
state of Oregon, everything is crunchy. Everything is crunchy, And
(03:45):
especially when you start dealing with deer that whether they
are crossing over between mule deer and blacktails. Blacktails are
I mean until the rut. They are nocturnal and so
obviously very they're very sensitive the noise sent things like that.
(04:05):
But they will stay i mean the bucks until it's
time to tell it's time to chase O's I mean
they will, they'll stay bettered down, they'll stay nocturnal. And
so you're thinking about ways in which you can you know,
crunch through the woods or the open planes to try
to hopefully maybe push them around a little bit until
(04:26):
you start getting you start getting some snowfall or a
little bit of rain, that'll get them a little bit
more active.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
But so to answer your question as far as a plan,
it is just be prepared to be nimble. It's going
to adjust a lot and know what you're going to
do the next day. If you've got a full moon
or even a partial moon the night.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Before, yeah, I they're going to go into the seeking phase.
And so they're just they're moving around a little bit more.
You're dealing with like nocturnal bucks. I mean, that's just
that's a difficult thing to start with. I mean, dealing
with nocturnal bucks, whether it's moon related, whether it's you know,
(05:08):
pressures or or heat. What I'm finding is I always say,
and we had a conversation about this a few weeks ago,
is the you know, always the rout going to be early?
You know, is it going to be you know, is
it going to be a delayed run?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, And typically it's the same. It's gonna be around
the same time like every year, like because those and
whether it is hot. What I have found, whether it
is a hot year or it's an oddly cold year
for us in Oklahoma, those bucks are going to be
doing their thing around the same time, no matter temperature.
(05:47):
But it's tougher mentally, I think on hunters because you
sit there and you're like, man, I'm hunting in shorts again,
or you know, I'm hunting in a T shirt and
I shouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And so that's one thing that.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I I start to like look at, is like, Okay,
they're gonna be doing their thing. You just got to
be in the woods. But where are you starting to look?
Are you starting to look towards that mass that's dropping?
You know, are those acorns dropping? Is that what they're in?
Are they in? You know the white oaks? Like where
are they like? Where are they concentrating and moving because
(06:23):
deer don't like nocturnal deer, what you're dealing with, like
they are going to get up and either stretch during
the day or they're going to get up and move
and maybe browse around and then go back to that
bedding area.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So that's the.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Areas that I think you're going to have to start targeting,
is those transition periods, those transition areas between like their
morning movement, which is they've got to eat, Like deer
are going to eat every day, They're going to like
it's just a fact, like they're going to eat, So
what are they eating on? So I think if you
identify that and identify the bedding area, like, you'll probably
(07:01):
be in a better situation to harvest those nocturnal bucks.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Oh, that absolutely makes sense. So out out here lots
of uh, there's been lots of burns over the last
you know, decade or so, so lots of regrowth or
reprod and in general and betting areas, you'll find anywhere
from the really thick, deep stuff which is almost unhuntable
(07:26):
out of here, but sometimes ten yards off of you know,
a clear cut or a draw.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
And so it's getting if you can getting.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
To those glassing areas and look looking for you know,
ear flickers or just any anything that is a little
bit different. They'll stay tucked down, but they are going
to get up. They may they may pop out for
you know, two minutes a day.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, you need to you need to be there.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
But they they don't always talk back in really really
deep Okay.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
They'll kind of they'll they'll they'll hang around where they
where they feel comfortable.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
And another thing out here, definitely is the best way
to see deer.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Is get an ELK tag.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
You'll see lots of deer. Yeah, see lots of deer,
which I just just did on an ELK hunt. Saw
saw saw shooter bucks every single day.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Out of out of season.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
But well of course watch them.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So yeah, that's like, So I'm sitting there and it
was another one. It was right before No, it was
during you season. My kids weren't old enough to hunt.
So we go out and we go bow hunt, and
and I'm sitting there on the field edge and this
is how it always happens. Like all of a sudden,
I look out in the field and there's just this
(08:46):
mega I mean, he is he is one of the
largest white til I've ever seen on hoof, and I
wasn't I didn't even have my bow with me.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I was recording my buddy who it was.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
You know, we always did that, you take turn, like
all right, you get this hunt, I'll take the next hunt.
And this mega just steps out on this wheat field
and he is he is one hundred and twenty yards away.
And I would have slung an arrow, I swear if
I would have had one, But he steps out. It's
this way all the time, like he steps out the
(09:18):
most inopportune time.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
But I wouldn't say.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Man, he probably would have scored if I was guessing,
like this is a like free range. This isn't on
any high fence, but he was probably a good one
eighty at least. And that's the largest like sight on
scene free range year. That's one of the largest deer
I've ever seen on the hoof. Worst timing ever, of course, Yeah,
(09:44):
one leak later, I would have had him with a muzzleoder.
But it always happened now, but seed that year it
was warm too, it was unseasonably warm, but he had
to eat like he was and it was that time
where those deers start moving around.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, their bodies, their bodies telling them, telling them what
to do, regardless of what I think what the temperature says.
But I do think there's something to how it is
going to impact the movement in activity.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I mean it has it has to like they have
to be moving.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
They their their timeline is ticking on what their bodies
are because like you have to think like leading up
to the chase, like they are consuming whatever they can
to get that energy. Because have you ever seen a
buck at the end of a like a running season. Dude,
they are emaciated. They look horrible.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I mean they look like they've been run through the ringer.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
And they really nocturnal.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Then yeah, so those early seasons, they've got to eat.
They've got to pack on those pounds.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
It's like a largemouth bass or in the winter, like
reading or leading up to the spawn, they're going to
have to eat, like it's just just a fact.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Well, and trying and trying to watch watering areas too,
if it's if it's unseasonably warm. Are they're spending more
time than making trips? Are they staying longer?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, it's it's all it's all a process. But uh, hey,
we're gonna bring you back on here in a little bit,
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with a smoked bronze Sarah Coot finish like Tactical Fashion Week,
but with more recoil chambered in five five.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Six, NATO or three oh eight.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
It's got a threaded barrel, installed high comb and the
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the ballistic ones. You can find it at guntalkscout dot com.
Looking to level up your hunt and tighten up those groups, Well,
look no further than Remington Ammo. Yeah, the stuff in
the green box is super accurate and they've got everything
(14:05):
from Hunting Ammo all the way to NRL like match ammos.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
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Speaker 1 (14:11):
Remington Premiere, from Premier tip acutip to match grade ammunition,
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Speaker 2 (14:24):
All right, we're back. Aaron olger Man.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Uh, you're a busy guy, Hodgden, Powders, RCBS, you kind.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Of do it all there. But you're also one of
the more hardcore hunters. I know.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
You hunt all over the place, Kansas and Missouri, and
you're you're a Midwestern big buck hunter, and we talked
about this briefly the other day, Like, man, it's just
it's kind of warm out, Like what are you doing
to combat that?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
What are you doing in your planning?
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Yeah, it's been a struggle. So we're right now, we're
what two thirds over way through November, so our entire
season in the Midwest so far, we've been averaging fifteen
to twenty degrees above average, which for a gear hunter,
that's really tough, and so it's been a challenge for us.
We've worked around it. You know, I have a lot
(15:18):
of experience hunting in warmer conditions, and I understand how
to how to still get out and do what I
need to do. But definitely you're dealing with things that
I don't. You know, I have lots of cold weather gear.
I don't have a lot to sit in the tree
stand when it's you know, seventy five or any degree.
So that that's been a bit of a challenge, but
we're still working around it.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, Like it is funny because I like I transition
out closed. It's like it's rare that I have to
pick up my turkey, my spring turkey hunting clothes to
hunt white tail deer in November. But I found myself
doing that and I don't like to I really don't
like to do that because it's like I don't feel
the patterns match the terrain because it's a transitioning period
(15:58):
into the spring and it's more green. But going back
to Gary and I's conversation on, like, deer gonna move
like they have to move, but their movements might be
a little bit slower. You're not going to see that
heavy chasing, and the deer health is going to deteriorate
(16:19):
quicker during these hot months.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Are you noticed in the same thing.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
We are. And there's a couple of ways to combat that, right,
So when it's hot like it is, hunt over or
at least buy water sources because they've got any more
water than they're normally going to need ad mid to
late November, So I think that's important. I think another
factor is you got to hunt their food patterns. These
deer are all food to bed bed of food. Catch
(16:45):
them in between. So we're hunting, you know, near bedding
cover that is overlooking food plots. So when we're going out,
we're we're sitting near food plots, but where we can
see enough bedding cover, and you're going to see them
really early, you're going to see them really late. We
were on a beanfield Sunday night in the middle of
(17:06):
Missouri and we had deer that all came out right
at shooting light. We were trying this spot, you know,
four hundred yards away. We're trying to figure out which
deer walked in front of us, you know at four
hundred yards. Well it's you know, two minutes left illegal
shooting light. That's that's a that's a tough way to go.
But they are still moving. It's just you got to
(17:27):
be in the right place.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
At the right time. Yeah, they this late movement.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I absolutely hate it because it's always like I always
remember it, like you season, so our U season is
like mid October, and so in daylight saving time is
still a thing. So those deer don't come out until
like seven ten if the sun's like if the last
shooting light it's at seven to eleven, they're stepping out
(17:52):
at seven ten. Like, It's just how it is for
that U season, and it makes it really difficult, and
you start thinking about like the gear.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
You start talking about the gear that you're using.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You know, whether it's like you got to have a
good glass because the later they start stepping out.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I mean, you've got.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
To have great glass, like something that takes in a
lot of light like it have said of like twelve
by fifties or something like that. Like so you start
looking at stuff like that and it's it's just a
difficult process. But we can shift over a little bit
towards gear because you've been hunting with a gun that
we had talked about a couple of years ago. That's
of it is one of my favorites and one that
(18:33):
I use every year. Talk a little bit about the
gear that you're using, and when Gary comes back in,
I do want to have a conversation with both of
you guys on how you dress for those big changes
and swings.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Sure, yeah, I switched over. I guess I didn't switch over,
but I added a SIG cross in really to my
to my rifle safe last year.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I guess.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
So I did it because I had some friends at
SIG and they trumpeted the rifle and I thought, you know, hey,
I'll be a good consumer, a good friend. I'll buy
one of those, play around with it a little bit,
and then probably sell it and move on I'm not
selling that rifle. I've been really impressed with the platform.
You know, I set it up like I set up
(19:22):
all my rifles. I run the same scope, the same
can on all my rifles. And that rifle has been
really neat because you know, you fold the stock up,
but you stick in your backpack and you're it's really
easy walk to and from the stand. I like the
way that it shoots. It for a light as rifles
it is, the recalls really manageable. It's just a really
(19:45):
good platform that I think that sig did a great job.
I think that's a home run. So I've been really
impressed with that rifle, and I'm going to be I've
shot it, you know, sighting it in and then playing
around at two hundred yards. I'm going to start ringing
it out in the springtime. Just I take that rifle
is a lot more potential than what I probably gave it.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I think. I think it absolutely does.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I have a funny story about my cross, so I'm
getting it ready. The neighbor kid that I took hunting
that was on the show a couple of weeks ago,
that's what he shot his first buck with. And I
was like we went out and shot five hundred yards
with him with that gun. It's in six or five
(20:28):
creed more, and he absolutely fell in love with it,
and I'm like, okay, So when we were actually going
out on the hunt a couple of weeks later, I
went ahead and shot it out here with Chris Sereno,
and I I wasn't happy with the grouping, like it
hasn't really grouped that well, and I had it customed
Sarah coated and it's like a you know, Ode Green
(20:50):
It's it's a beautiful rifle. I did not and I
took for granted the guy that Sarah co did it.
It was not someone that I normally use. Every single
bolt on that gun was loose, but nothing it was.
It was like hand tight. There was no he didn't
(21:12):
tighten it to speck or anything. He just he just
sit there and just went, ah, that's good enough, like
all of them. So I had to take the I
took the whole thing apart down to the like the
bare bones of that gun, just to check the torque
settings on every single screw. And now it's back to
shooting like a like a little laser. So sure, always
(21:35):
check your torqu speccing s spec before you get out, and
then someone messes with your gun.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Maybe he was doing it to mess with me. I
don't know, But so let's let's transition back.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
That was our kind of product talk for a second.
But the later we go, it is going to get colder.
I promise guys, there's reprieve coming. When do the these
guys need to be in the woods after the heat wave?
Like so when like is it the first day that
a cold front hits. Do you find more success on
(22:10):
a cold front hit or do you find it a
couple of days later.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
For me, it's usually right around the cold front. So
leading up and then right after the cold front is
when I like hunting. But you know, let's be honest,
I'm just like any other guy out there. I'm managing
my vacation so that you know, I fun and I
think nine days in the last two weeks, so this
is when I take all my vacation right because I
(22:35):
want to be in the woods. And so for me,
the right time to be in a stand is in
the morning and in the evening and in the middle
of the day. So that's just kind of how I
manage things. But everybody can't be that way. I get it.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, but you're setting. You're setting all day during this
time of the year, Like this is the time where
you just hey, pack a lunch, pack some snacks, your
favorite snacks, sit all day because you never know what's
going to happen.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Yeah, you know, I t have a lot of creek
and river bottoms, and we I deal with thermals and
swirling winds, and I have found that I do have
to move in the middle of day. I may stay
out all day, but I'm going to have to move
stands just to keep up with the wall even when
I'm rifle hunting.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
So I know a lot of guys think you don't
need to worry about that, but I think you need
to worry about that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
No, No, here's the deal. I never, like, I used
to be the guy.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Who was like like adamant about you know, spraying your
clothes down.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
And I never like got into my hunting.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Clothes until I was like at the hunting stand and
I change outside my truck in the twenty degree you know,
wind blown Oklahoma. You know Chris morning, And I'm not
that way more. I'm always hunt the wind. You have
to hunt the wind. I don't care what I've got on. Like,
if I hunt the wind correctly, you're going to be
more successful. And that's man, this is a whole other
(23:56):
conversation because thermals are a thing. Like thermals like if
you're not paying attention of what they're doing during the day, right,
you could be in trouble.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Yeah, we deal with that a lot. And honestly, I
still am the guy who, like, I don't do it
every day, but I have one of those sick crusher
closets and every other day, every other time I wear them,
I crush my clothes. You know, I very particular about
how I put the clothes on and how I spray
everything down. And I'm not sponsored to have nothing to
(24:28):
do with those shammer, but man, those jammer are the boots.
I'm absolutely convinced.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Really, I've been alla way.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
For smell man. Deer follow you around. They have no
idea that you're a human being. So I'm still very
conscious of sit protection.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, but you have to pay it.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Play the wind, yeah, all that right, and you can
still screw up the wind.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
See.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
My problem is that I've I've been I've been more successful,
just as just as successful. Like when I don't, like
do all the scent crushing thing in the scent blocker
and all that stuff, and when I except, like now
I hunt the wind, it's like I'm just as successful.
So why like I don't, I don't stress myself as much.
(25:11):
You know, now, if I'm going into public spot, I'm
a little bit more particular because I know, like, who
knows what's happening in there?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Like I don't know, but.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
No I get it. But I'm not very smart, so
I need every advantage I can.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Fine, I will say this, you kill a lot of
big bucks, like bigger than what I'm killing, So I
will say that whatever you're doing, keep it up.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Yeah, I will say. When we talk about, you know,
warm weather, this feels very unseasonably warm to me this year,
just because we really haven't gotten any cold weather in
Missouri where I've been hunting. But you know, I kill
my biggest buck in my life four years ago in
Kansas on an eighty two degree day in the first
week of December. So you know, yeah, this isn't great,
(25:59):
but it happens. And you know, again, the deer still moved.
That deer jumped over the fence into the property that
I was hunting with five minutes left and legal shooting light,
and he was dead thirty seconds later.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So you know, rightfully, So the whole trip.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
Right, And you've got to be ready because at any
moment you're you're time can change. And you know, all
day long, I'd been in a redneck gilly wine and
I was in shorts and a T shirt, no boots,
no shoes, no nothing, just because it was so hot. Yeah,
and you think that nothing's going to move, and then
you know, here I am scrambling at the end of
(26:37):
the at the end of the hunting light, I'm scrambling
to get that buck shot. But again, the biggest buck
I've ever shot. So anything can happen when you're in
the woods.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, it can happen. It might happen late, but it
definitely could happen. All right, let's.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Bring Gary back in any final you know, thoughts that
you have or any any comments that you want to introduce.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Man, now's your time.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, you guys were you guys were talking about gear
and and uh and how to dress as far as
the varying weather temps and for me, especially out here,
with the with the swings and the wind, and it's
it's layers.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, I am.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
I am all about layers. I keep it.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
I can't actually keep all layers really light because I do.
I'm kind of the same with with Aaron Is. I
sit in the morning, I sit at night, and pretty
active during the day and we have we have to
carry rain gear out here, so lightweight rain gear in
the pack all the time and just being ready to
(27:41):
throw it on so I'm not having to go back
to camp or or bail for any reason.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
But you're like, so your pack is I mean, your
pack has to be bigger. What pack are you running?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I'm running the bad Lands the Vario frame, and then
I've got two different, two different packs. It's got a
thirty three in a twenty two just depending on what
I'm doing, I'll strap that on. It's awesome.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
The other thing I added this year to gear that
I had actually never used before, never thought I needed it,
was gators. Yeah, and I just I kind of just
you know, poop pooed them like, didn't didn't need them.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
But it was a game changer for me.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
I was afraid they'd be they'd be loud, i'd be
you know, whistling through the woods.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
There's a huge comfort, huge comfort saver.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And with the you know, the amount of different vegetation
you're kind of blasting through, you know, protecting your boots,
protecting your pants, keeping your pants from swishing. Yeah right,
that's another one.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
So yeah, yeah, just lot.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
And you know, every single hunt, I will overpack my
my pack no matter what, just because they're like gear
and they're like bringing.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
It all with me.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
Yeah, I mean I want to be uncomfortable without.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Exactly if I leave something out to stay lighter, it'll
be the thing I needed.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Oh yeah, inevitably.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So on the really cold days you talk about on
the big swings in like cold days, I'm talking like,
you know, you start out and it's like ten degrees
and so you're sitting in the stand. You want to
make you want to make it as late as possible,
and I think layering is one hundred percent right, But
I will have you guys heard of like the slumberjack,
Like have you heard of that? So it's it's like
(29:39):
I think the Arctic oven like or I forget Arctic
shield makes one or something like that. But it's almost
like a sleeping bag with a hood and it has
magnetic sleeves, so like you can just come out of it.
It's like a sleeping.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Bag and it just covers you.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, oh my gosh, that's a game changer if you're
sitting in a tree.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
It's amazing.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
They can compressible enough to like tossing a pack.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And yeah, it's like I mean it compresses you know,
like the size of a maybe a football or something
like that.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
But it's super warm.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
It's like you're in a sleeping bag and you just
have your you know, hands in there, and you got
your hot pockets in there or whatever, you got your
hot hands.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
It's well, you look cool. Yeah, you look cool.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
That's the main thing.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
No, you do not look cool. You look like an
overstuffed burrito. Sit at the top of the tree. That's right.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
Those little I think Arctic Shield makes those booties as well,
that go it kind of overboats. Have you seen those?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Oh I have a and they are magic man.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Yeah, yeah, I like those a lot. I carry a
little cardboard and put that underneath your boots and then
put those around your boots and stand on the cardboard
in a tree stand. It's yeah, that's a way better
way to do it than when Ice first started hunting
in the early eighties.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So oh yeah, like you just hope.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I think I was probably wearing cowboy boots at that time,
like just hoping my you wouldn't freeze to death, you know.
But yeah, those arctic child like boots. I think a
lot of it is the wind. I think just the
wind getting in there and and hitting your your boots. Man,
it just once your feet go and once your head
goes like cold, like it's like I'm done.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
It's it's hard to recover.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Feet in hands. That's what shortens a lot of days.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, yeah, it's I mean those there's all kinds of
gear out there, but like we're trying. What we're trying
to do is like shorten your learning curve, like learn
from the old guys.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Like and that's great.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
That's what it's so frustrating is like, man, I wish
I would have listened to all those guys when I
was young, and I never did.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Ye. But yeah, so what gators are you running? Uh?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Also bad lands? Uh, bad lands They're they're called master gators,
which is amazing, amazing naming master gators.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
They're Yeah, they're awesome. Easy to put on, super secure
really like them.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, that's awesome, Aaron. Let's head over to you.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Let's uh, let's get you involved a little bit more.
What are your some of your final thoughts, like, what
are you what are you thinking?
Speaker 5 (32:15):
Yeah? I think in years like this, Uh, you know,
I sit in the deer stand and I'm constantly looking
at what's in front of me. What's what do I
like about this stand? Do I need to move it?
Do I need a different height? Do I need to
be closer to bedding, closer to food? You know? So
I think, you know, don't just don't just sit there.
I think a lot of guys get bored and they
want to bring a I've heard of guys bringing an
(32:37):
iPad and watching YouTube videos or movies or whatever. I
can't do that.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I'm not.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
I'm just not wired that way. But I think use
your time in the stand well, like, just be looking around, observing,
figure out how to do it better for next year.
You know, same thing with gear. I keep a running
list of what I'm happy with and what I want
to change for next year. You know, I'm glad I
tried that sig out. During the summertime I played around
(33:04):
quite a bit with different loads, trying to make sure
that I knew what bullet I wanted to run powder
worked well, you know, you were talking about hot and
cold mornings. We came out with that stable line of
powders under our Winchester brand ten years ago now, and
I'm raning Stayble Match in a in a three to
(33:25):
eight bullet. And the nice thing about that is you
don't have to worry about is it cold or is
it hot. It's going to shoot to the same point
of impact.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
And I'm a fan of using technology where it makes
sense and where it can work for you. And that's
one of those products that really works for me, that
Stayble Match with a with a Barns tts X bullet.
I'm a that shoots really well out of my sig Cross.
I don't know if it will shoot well out of everybody's,
(33:53):
but it shoots really well out of my And that's
something that just makes gearfall over.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
And I can appreciate that weight on that stable.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
I'd have to look. I think I'm running forty four
point something. Yeah, of grains that shooting about you know what,
I don't even remember what the velocity is on that.
But yeah, that's it's worked really well for me. Hundred
and sixty eight green TSX bullet that works, and you know,
(34:25):
really happy with that combination.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
I'm telling you, like the sensitive like powders out there,
if you run them, you're really taking your hunt into
your own hands, like at that point. If if it's
temperature sensitive, that's why like this is like you talk
about the stable being temperature insensitive, like it's not as
(34:49):
subject to the temperatures as most other powders. And and
when you guys develop that, we tested out on the
six y five cree More and it shoots lights out.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
It shoots just as good as any other.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
Yeah, yeah, I'm really happy with that line of powders.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Well especially, I mean we're talking about these, you know,
the big out in organ big temperature swings. You might
have like nice clear skies in the morning and then
all of a sudden you're you're wading through two feet
deep snow to get your next set. Like when you're
talking about weather swings like that, your powder better be
on point right, so.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
And the rest of your gear as well. Right, temperature swings,
That's why what Gary said about layerings, right you always
have to have We got a pitch of rain on
Sunday night, you gotta have ring gear with you.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Well, especially we've we've heard all those horror stories of
guys getting trapped on the mountain and not making it
back out, and you know, if they would have just
packed you know, X gear like whatever, it would be like.
I mean, man, there's a there's a level of danger
that goes into every time you go out.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
You're going out by.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yourself typically, like there's a level of like you got
to put some thought into this.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
Yeah, yeah, I agree for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
All Right, guys, Well, I sure to appreciate you guys,
and you guys know the drill, keep those muscles point
in a safe direction and always be on the hunt.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
H
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.