September 28, 2025 • 43 mins
In This Hour:
-- Randy Luth was instrumental in making the public aware that the AR-15 was a great hunting rifle. Now he's running for the board of directors of the NRA.
-- The AR-15 platform turns 70 next year, making it an older design.
-- Tom chases down a problem with his hunting rifle.
Gun Talk 09.28.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Randy Luth was instrumental in making the public aware that the AR-15 was a great hunting rifle. Now he's running for the board of directors of the NRA.
-- The AR-15 platform turns 70 next year, making it an older design.
-- Tom chases down a problem with his hunting rifle.
Gun Talk 09.28.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. Tom Gresham here if
you want to join us eight sixty six talk gunder
Tom Talk Gun. I want to talk to an old
friend of ours. I've been shooting with him. We've done
competitions together, We've goofed off and had fun together. Randy
luth joined us right now. You know him from Luthar
and also Randy from DPMs Panther Arms because you started
(00:34):
that company, didn't it?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I did, Hello, Tom, I did. I started DPMs Panther
Arms in nineteen eighty six and started as a government
contract consulting company teach machine shops how to get government contracts.
And at my previous job, I was VP president of
a precision machine shop where we made a whole bunch
of departments defense parts for the most likely, mostly for
(00:59):
the Army M sixteen parts, M two of three parts,
nineteen eleven parts, and so left that company nineteen eighty six,
started DPMs Consulting and then I was brokering on the
side of is Brokingarm sixteen parts around the country because
I knew the government contractors that were making them, and
then started making rifles. Came up with some better mouse
(01:20):
traps for the AR and made them shoot a little
bit better, more accurately by tightening up tolerances. Then DPMs
migrated in Panther Arms in the early nineties where we
got our manufacturing license started making full barrel fluted tack
driver ars for the environment market. Built DPMs into a
(01:45):
respectable company. Back in those days, the AR fifteen was
not very popular and had a certain image.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, people didn't really know what it was or what
they could do with it. And not only did you
make really good rifles, but you also were at the
forefront of showing people, well, this is what you can
do with them. And you, actually, i would say, are
very responsible for people starting to use ars for hunting,
because you used your ars to hunt everything all over
the world.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
We did, we did, and thanks for the compliment. It
was around two thousand when we started making our three
toh eight, and so to promote our three toh eight,
what better way than to go out and do some
hunting with it. So at DPMs, we made all kinds
of any caliber that would fit into the three to
eight magazine we made for the AR ten and I
(02:35):
took those calibers of the short action to three hundred
short action ultramag the seven mm eight to sixty Remington
three thirty eight Federal. So with those different calibers and
wanting to promote the fact that you could successfully and
respectfully hunt with them, they are ten R fifteen. Off
(02:58):
I went hunting and mountain, goat, hunting, elk, you name it.
I have completed the North American twenty nine species. I
think sounds like I'm bragging, but it's just to promote.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
You're You're exactly I was going to say. That's what
you were doing.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
You're promoting the idea of hunting with ars and telling people, Look,
this is ultimately you're any What you were doing is
you're telling people, look, understand.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
This is just a rifle. That's all it is.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
It's a rifle you can use for a lot of
different things, and this is one of the things you
can do with it. It's a semi automatic rifle, and
semi automatic rifles have been around for one hundred years.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
This is just the newest version.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Let me, let me let's bounce from that, because I
want to let I just want to let people know
kind of a little bit about who you are and
what you've done and the fact that you really know
your way around guns. But let's talk about what's going
on right now, which is you're running for the board
of the NRA. Now, Lord knows why, because you know,
I think I wouldn't wish.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
That on my worst enemy. But here we go.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So you decide you're going to do this, So what's
what's going on? Why are you doing this?
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Well?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Over the years, I mean over the decades, I've been
asked to buy industry people, by customers, by friends. Because
of the passion that I have. The NRA is is
the best organization for our Second Amendment rights. In the past,
they've been haarnished, you know, over the past several years.
The NRA will never go away.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
It will always be here.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
It just needs some new refreshments at the director level,
I think. And Doug Hamlin's doing a great job. He
had to take take over an organization that that had
some problems with previous management leadership, and uh, I think
he's doing a great job. And it'll take a while,
(04:42):
but I think if we can get some like minded
directors on the board. Some people are calling it the
reform side. I've made the decision, I mean, kicking it
around for years. I'm excited about it. You're right, it's
it's a challenge, but you know, I've been accept challenges
for the past forty fifty years.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So sure enough, we know. Let me just to tell
people so they understand what's going on. Yes, we have,
you know, new leadership at the nr A, and you know,
obviously the lot of years gone and all those books
are gone, and we've got the good guys.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Are in, but not in every position. And the board
is made.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Up of seventy six people, which, as you pointed out
to be earlier, is that's just the nuttiest thing in
the world. And maybe at some point the bilogs could
get changed and we change that.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
It's hard enough to get twelve people to agree, or
nine people to agree, or three people to agree, but
it just minimizes I think the uh yeah, and you.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Have been we should point out you have been on
the board of multi billion dollar companies, so you know
how things work.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I have personal banks, gunbroker dot Com Amolink USA Shooting Team,
Olympic Shooting Team. So I've seen it all the good
the ugly. So with that experience, I think that I
can help offer some some good ideas, good leadership.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Well, and here's what's going on. Here's what's going on.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
There's still a battle going on on the board, and
the battle is to get the good people in. And
we've still got some of the my words, some of
the bad people are still there and we've got to
move those people out and get good people in. In
buzzmills of course from gunsight there, Uh, we're basically one
of the leaders of getting this thing right, and you
would be one of those. And more power to you
(06:35):
and think thankfully you're doing this and you're willing to
sign up. And I'm just going to tell you, I'm
going to give you my full throated endorsement. Like I
said I would, I wouldn't throw my worst enemy into that,
except that you're one of my best friends.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
So I'm gonna throw you in there, buddy.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Well, I appreciate that, Tom, And uh, it's like I said,
it's my whole life when you're in the air fifteen
rightful business since the early nineties. That's a big enough
challenge that I've seen over the past four decades, challenge
from the media, challenge from other gun owners back in
(07:13):
the nineties, and so challenges are accepted, and I look
forward to helping the NRA get back to five million
or ten million members and bring back respect to the NRA,
which it deserves.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
We all benefit from having a strong NRA. And I
know people got to where they were bad mouthing it
and well actually with good reasons for quite a while.
But now it's back or coming back, and we need
a good, strong NRA, and I think Randy Luth is
one of the people who can make it happen. I
would encourage people vote for Randy Luth when you're voting
for board members this time. In the meantime, let's go
shoot something.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Let's do it. I was out in Colorado last week
with my buddies, kind of guiding and all fitting for
some archery, and some preye dogs got my way.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, we'll do that.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
We had an old bear we bumped in down by
the beaver pond where we're trying to call in some milk,
and here's this ancient cinnamon colored bear. His right ear
was ripped off. He's about ten years away. So we
started doing the hollering and the big image, you know,
raising your arms. This thing was so old he couldn't
(08:25):
see us, he couldn't hardly hear us.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
He never knew you were there. It didn't We're.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Screaming and yelling. Was he ready to charge?
Speaker 4 (08:37):
I did.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I wasn't hunting, but I had a forty four meg
chest holster, so I had that. I had that ready
just in case. But yeah, we had a little fun
to do some hunting and shooting last weekend.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
That's great. All right. Here's one other thing. I mentioned
this to you earlier in the week.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I'm pretty sure the Eugene Stoner they got the patent
on the AR ten originally in nineteen fifty six, and
that means that next year, it's seventy years that this
platform has been around.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
It's hardly a newcomer anymore, isn't that something?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
You know? I was born in fifty four, and so
over the years, you know, you look at the history
of Eugene Stoner and in what year it was, and
fifty four was involved. And then I think you said
the patents were in fifty six. I mean that is
just amazing that the Stoner's design was so far ahead.
He was decades ahead of the whole firearms industry with
(09:32):
that design, with seventy seventy six aluminum forgings and just
just amazing technology. So it is it is kind of
interesting to see how long that rifle has been around
and all the improvements you know that we did at DPMs,
(09:55):
but more importantly that spurred on things that we did
and Carl Lewis and other people in the industry, Bushmaster
people and Bob Shoots at Olympic Arms. He deserves a
lot more credit some of the designs that he had
back in the nineties and early eighties. He was kind
(10:16):
of a mentor for me as well. But to see
what American ingenuity has done with the AR fifteen. Every
year something cool comes out, this gets better, some new
design or ideas, and we continue to do the same.
We've got some launches coming this year. But it's just
(10:36):
been fun for me to see an AR fifteen rifle
grow from the eighties when people despised it for the
most part, well.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
They wouldn't even let it in at the shot show.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
No, we had some difficulty with that in the nineties. Yeah,
I remember that carving rifles. But that shows how things
can change. I mean, you had whoever it was at
the shot show. You know they made a decision. Well
guess what now The largest portion of the shot show
is the last six section in AR fifteen. I mean
(11:10):
there's twenty million ars supposedly in the America.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Now, hey, Randy, I'm out of time. I got a
scoot here again. Once again, I'm gonna tell people it's
l U T H. Randy luth And on your NRA
board the election when it comes around and vote for him.
All right, Randy, thank you so much. I appreciate it,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
All right, see buddy, thanks.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
All right, do you take care of I. We'll be
right back with more gun talk.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
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Speaker 2 (12:32):
Put all your gear on that you carry and then
roll around on the ground. Now, get up all your
gear that's on the ground. That's what you're not gonna
have in a fight.
Speaker 7 (12:39):
Gun talks should be in your podcast feed.
Speaker 8 (12:42):
Check out gun Talk Nation. What's it like to be
blown up?
Speaker 9 (12:45):
You know, if it's like C four, it's almost like.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
A smack hunting.
Speaker 7 (12:49):
Yeah, we talk about that too.
Speaker 10 (12:51):
On your crosshairs, I like a thin crosshair, AJE.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
You're really dating yourself by calling things crosshairs.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
You'reredical whatever.
Speaker 8 (12:58):
Have some fun and stay in with the gun Talk podcast.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
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Speaker 11 (13:38):
Hey guys, Max Michelle here, captain of the SIGs Hour
Shooting Team. I just wanted to take a moment to
congratulate Tom on hitting thirty years on the air with
Gun Talk. It's an incredible accomplishment and well deserved. Tom
has always brought us the information that we wanted and
needed to know as it relates to the Second Amendment
or a gun enthusiast or anyone out there that's carrying
to protect our loved ones and our great nation. So Tom,
(14:00):
we thank you for these last thirty years and we
look forward to thirty more. Buddy.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
All Right, as I sit here, I've got my badge
are packed. I'm ready to go. As the song says,
I got more bags packed than I know what to
do with, because I'm heading out in the morning for
this very much anticipated moose hunt to bring up to speed.
I and my buddy Mike and I were both applied
(14:29):
to get the very hard to get tag for moose
hunting in Idaho, and we thought, well, if either one
of us gets it, that'll be great and we'll all
go up there and hunt together, because it takes the
team to hunt moose, especially if you get one down. Incredibly,
we both drew tags early, ten tags in this hunt
(14:49):
we applied for, and we both got tags.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
So Mike was up there early. He went up.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
He already got his moose, he brought it back. He
spent the week cutting it up, roughly three hundred poun
in the freezer. So we're gonna load up at head
out in the morning, go up to North Idaho. Five
of us. I'm the only one with a tag, but
I got four in support you said we had. We'll
all go up, we'll camp together, we'll unt together, we'll
help you out. It's nice to have friends. And I
(15:19):
really wanted, I mean anticipating using this new Ish rifle. Oh,
it's a used rifle I bought, chambered for the three
thirty eight odd six improved cartridge. It's a thirty out
six necked up to thirty three caliber to take three
thirty eight bullets. I got it a year ago, and
(15:40):
when I got it it was mark three thirty eight six,
but didn't say anything about improved, and the people who
sold it online didn't say anything about it being improved
when I went out and shot it.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
As soon as I shot it and took the empty case.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
That went, oh, that's an improved case, all right, wasn't
what I was bargaining for its dow cack handle it.
And then through the I don't know, several months i've
been shooting it, it's like, yeah, generally it shoots pretty well,
for occasionally there's an issue. And then recently I was
out and starting to have a problem. I had some
(16:17):
failures to fire where I would get light primer strikes
and then faire to extract a fired case. And I'm
looking at this and going, Okay, what's going on and
then looking more carefully, And when I put a case
in or loaded round in and put it back out
without firing it, I'm getting weird scratch marks on the
(16:41):
neck of the case and going, yes, no, this isn't
this is not right. So I contacted the folks at
Outcast Arms. Talk to Glenn. Outcast Arms is the folks
who used to work for Melvin Forbes at Ultra Light
Arms and Virginia, same shop, same people, and this is
(17:03):
an Ultra Light Arms rifle. He told me what I
was thinking. He said, yeah, send it back, let's take
a look at it. And I mean, and they didn't
do the work on it. He got it in and
of course the fact that somebody had rechambered the rifle
and did not restamp the barrel right off the bat
that tells me that there was some sloppy gunsmithing. I
(17:24):
don't know who did that somewhere along the way. So
Glenn took the rifle, took the barrel off, turned the
barrel back, he cut off some of the back of
the barrel, so you're starting fresh and cutting a new chamber.
And then cut a new chamber, and it had to
be the three thirty eight six improved. There was no
(17:44):
way to go back to the original three thirty eight
at six. So he ended up the barrel shorter and
then he stamped the barrel correctly and it's really a
good looking job. Came back and he was terrific about
getting it back to me quickly. So I came back
on Friday, I take it out, arranged Friday to shoot it.
I had loaded some AMMO. It did not go well.
(18:07):
It turns out it wasn't his fault at all. And
I'd loaded up some of these really nice I've used
them before, two hundred and ten grain nozzleal petitions, good bullet,
and I used reloader seventeen powder which I've used before
and other things.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
And I'm out at the range and.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I'm shooting like four five inch groups one hundred yards
from a rifle that I know has shot three quarter
inch groups before. Okay, something's not right. Now I'm adjusting
the scope trying to get it to where it's supposed
to be, and it's like you adjust it down and
it goes way down and you just it back up
it goes way up, and think, got okay, I got
a bad scope. Clearly it's something's wrong because I'd put
(18:51):
a different scope on it, brought it back, swapped the
scope out, and now I thought, wait a minute, you
have multiple variables here. You've used different AMMO and a
different scope. You don't know which is whitch. So I
loaded up some different AMMO, go out to the rain
yesterday morning, and the scope is fine, and the new
(19:13):
AMMO I loaded, is shooting three core overange groups. Went Well,
that's good, But what's going on here? It was it
the scope. So I had some of the older AMMO,
the stuff i'd loaded last week. Older, and it's got
the two hundred and ten Grande Nogeal petitions again. It's
(19:33):
a famous book, really good boot. I shoot it and
I'm shooting five inch groups with this AMMO.
Speaker 9 (19:40):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Now, clearly I know the AMMO is the issue. The
scope is fine, and the new AMMA is fine. So
I've got a rig. It's good to go. I'm gonna
be taking it out hunting. But now I don't know.
This is where handloading is interesting, fascinating, frustrating, all of
that because I changed more than one variable. I used
a different bullet and a different powder. I don't know
(20:04):
which is the problem. So when I get back from
my moss hunt, I will start over again. And some
would say, wow, that's a.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Lot of work.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Well, it actually is just a lot of shooting and
a lot of fun. And I get to troubleshoot this
thing and figure out what's going on, and we'll get
figured out. I'll also load some more AMMO using the
two hundred and twenty five grain accubines, which is what
I've loaded up, which you're shooting really well, and I'll
probably use that on my alcut that's coming up. All
(20:35):
that to say that this was an interesting exercise. It's
part of the trouble shooting process that you go through.
Ryan said something last week. He said, you know, reloading
now is a thing. It's not just for gray haired guys.
I'm thinking, well, I wasn't gray haired when I started it,
(20:56):
but I am now because I started reloading about almost
sixty years ago.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
But it makes the point. It's interesting you have.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
A new group of rifle shooters, especially not loading for
economy like a competitive shooter, pistol shooter might just to
get a lot of AMMO. But you got people shooting
thousand yards a mile where franknins factory AMO is not
good enough, and they figured it out. That's why Hayloding
(21:30):
got popular forty fifty years ago. Factory AMMO was not
good enough, and we could use really much better bullets
and we could load demo that was more accurate than
our rifles.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Same thing.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Now you've got bullets high BC bullets that they're using
for this long range shooting. And they're loading AMMO that
is so precise. They're getting their extreme spreads down into
the single digits and their standard deviations down to one
or two. It's crazy. It doesn't matter what. It doesn't
matter to me at four hundred yards, but if you're
(22:02):
shooting at a thousand or fifteen hundred yards, yeah it matters.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
So hand learning is not just.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
For us old gray hair guys. It's for anybody who
wants better AMMO. As simple as that. Hey, I'm Tom Gresham.
We'll be back in a second with more gun talk.
Incoming fire has the right of way.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Interesting comment, interesting thought.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
You've got a guy who drives a truck through a door,
through a wall, and into a church, starts shooting people.
If all the fire is coming from him, it's got
the right of way. But you know what, if there's
gunfire going back at him, I mean, obviously, if it
hits him, that's good. Stops him, distracts him, slows him down,
(22:53):
dissuades him. Even if it's not hitting him, If it's
hitting around him and not hitting anybody else, then that's distracting,
dissuades him from doing what he's doing. Maybe by some time,
time is critical. This guy drives his vehicle into the church,
(23:16):
shoots a bunch of people, and now it sounds like
maybe he set off an ied of some sort, set
off an incendiary device. I'm having people online over on
X you can follow us over there. We've got a
discussion going there right now. I am gunn talk there.
People are saying, yeah, but I carry a snub nose
(23:39):
and an ankle holster. Maybe I should rethink that. Yeah,
I get it. It's easy to carry that way. It's comfortable,
it's easy to conceal.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
I get it. You don't even have to change the
way you dress. And yet.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You're on one end of a church sanctuary. The shooter
is on the other end. Even in a small church
that's probably thirty yards in a big church, could be
twice that. And he's got lots of AMMO with him
because he came to run up a body count. And
(24:19):
you got five rounds or maybe six rounds. Maybe you
got a speed strip, maybe you got a speedloader with you.
If I pointed that out, if I drew up that
scenario and said you can take any of the guns
you have, or any gun you want that you can carry,
is the snubby what you would carry. There's nobody would
(24:43):
say yes, nobody. Yeah, but it's where I can cai. No, no, no, no, no, no,
you're not listening to me. I'm not saying what's comfortable.
I'm not saying what's easy to conceal. I really like
Clint Smith's comment, of course, he's the guy that found
a thunder ranch.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Very quotable.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
He said, a defensive pistol is not supposed to be comfortable.
It's supposed to be comforting when you carry a big gun.
It feels like a big gun when you carry it,
but it also feels like a big gun when you
pull it out and go to work with it.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
It doesn't have to be a big gun.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
It probably shouldn't be a small gun either. Now our
idea of what's a small gun and what's acceptable it's changed.
The sig P three sixty five kind of changed everything
because you go, oh, that's a smaller pistol and it
shoots really well. Yeah it does, especially if you put
a red dot on it. Now you're not worried about
(25:51):
the site radius and they're inherently accurate. And then you
had every manufacturer came along and came out with a
gun roughly the same size with the same capacity, so
it really doesn't matter. I feel like Smith or Ruger
or Sig or Taurus or whoever fn they all have
that basically that same pistol. Pick the one you like,
(26:13):
learn to shoot it, or maybe go one size up
and that's okay too. Go to the Smith CSX or
the M and P two point zero or the Ruger
rx M or fill in the blank, whatever it is.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Yeah, but how am I going to carry that? Ah?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
There's a rub, right. This is where we get into
an individual situation. You may or may not be able
to pull this off. Okay, I give you that, depending
on where you work, where you go, what you have,
how you have to dress. In my case, I can
just pull out a short tail and leave it out.
I used to be tucking your shirtail. Look sharp, guy.
(26:57):
Now I am willing to take my shirttail out and
just leave it out. Because if I do that, I
can carry a full sized pistol in an outside the
waistband holster and have it concealed. And now I got
a full sized guy if I need it, plus another
magazine on the other side of the mag pouch. Yet
(27:19):
it's a little bit more involved, and yeah, I have
to make concessions in terms of the way I dress,
but it's okay. I've adjusted to that. You got to
figure it out for yourself. I don't have the answer
for you, but I do. You know what I do
(27:39):
is I ask the questions and have you kind of
figured out yourself is a snubby in this situation that
we're watching unfold right now on TV. What you would
want to have in that situation? Clearly if you said,
what can I have? If I have anything, Yeah, I
(28:00):
want to an ar with a whole bunch of thirty
round mags. I'm probably not gonna have that with me
in church.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
I'm just not.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
But I probably am going to have a relatively large
ish pistol. We're fifteen to seventeen to nineteen rounds and
another magazine with seventeen to nineteen rounds in it, and
I can put shots on target at a half a
football field, on target being the largest target. I'm not
(28:31):
gonna be making head shots there, but I can have
bullets hitting all around him and probably hitting him and
getting his attention. If I get his attention, guess what,
he's not paying attention to the people he's trying to
kill and we're buying time because the cops are going
to be there soon ish. They're gonna be there in
(28:53):
two minutes, three minutes, four minutes. Now, the guy can
kill a lot of people in that amount of time.
But if I can distract him even better, if I
can shoot him, and then when the cops get there,
fewer people have died. That's really worse. It's about, isn't it.
None of us likes that we have to think about
(29:13):
this stuff, But you know what not thinking about it
is what children do? You cover your ears and go no, no, no, nine,
I can't hear you. We're better than that. You are
better than that. You have to think about what are
you going to do then? And you got to take
(29:37):
steps now to make sure you can do that then
eight six six talk gun be right back.
Speaker 8 (29:58):
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(30:18):
at gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 10 (30:26):
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(30:47):
prepare you to use your gun and win the fight.
Find us at rangereadystudios dot com to learn more.
Speaker 8 (30:56):
Looking for real talk about guns, gear and the shooting lifestyle,
then tune into untalk Nation. Each week, your host, me
Ryan Gresham, sits down with industry insiders, trainers, and everyday
shooters to bring you the stories, news insights you won't
hear anywhere else. Whether it's the latest innovations, pro tips
for the range, or the hot topics everyone's buzzing about,
(31:17):
you'll find it here. Subscribe now to gun Talk Nation,
available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 12 (31:28):
There's more to this world of guns than you realize.
Your entry to our world is a click away at
gun talk dot com. Stay informed and entertained on the
latest firearm related topics, whether it's new guns, training, tips, gunsmithing, competition, shooting,
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(31:49):
Visit gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
All right back with you here, Let's go to the
phones line five owls with us Oude of Mountain Home, Arkansas.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Hello, owl, what you got.
Speaker 9 (32:15):
Greetings, I've got a ranger report to me. Tech kel
Tech came up with that new stripper clip pistol. I
got one. Yeah, yeah, after waiting forever, and uh, it's
it works real good. Except when I shot the uh
(32:40):
not the hollow tip the target demo at the uh
it would it would jam up, it would. I'd have
to manually do something each shot. And then I switched
over to another AMMO that was a plastic chip, right,
(33:07):
and and it worked every time as fast or as
slow as you wanted to go. And it was. It
was wonderful. So in the owner's manual says I, uh
that you're supposed to find an animal that works and
then stick with it.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Yeah, makes sense. So works.
Speaker 9 (33:30):
You're a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Well, we try to have fun.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I mean, sometimes we've got to talk about serious stuff,
but sometimes, you know, we got to remember that shooting
is fun. And you know, all these guns are are
pretty interesting devices. We just got to be safe with
the way that we handle them.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I appreciate that range report. Well, let's as long as
you're doing range reports. Let's grab Keith out of Denver.
He's got a range report for us. But you got
something cool you've been shooting.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Hey, Keith.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
See if Keith is still there, Hey, uh oh, tell
you what we're doing on a hold for a second.
Try to get him up there, because I want to
get this report because I've actually been well. I have
an interest in Double Stack nineteen eleven's. My issue are
going along with interest is that generally they're pretty fat.
(34:19):
They have fat grips, and I have short, stubby fingers,
and it's hard for me to wrap around them. I
can shoot them, I can do that, but they're a
little bit small, or rather on my hands are small,
and then these grips are fat. The question that I have,
and I was hoping to get this range before I'm
hoping to getting back in here, is most I think.
(34:41):
I think most of the Double Stack nineteen elevens originally
started out as Double Stack for forty five. But if
you're going to make it just as a double stack
for nine, is there a way to make the grip thinner?
And then I kind of flash back to the Sea p.
Three sixty five, which they did something a little bit
(35:05):
interesting there to keep the grip thinner.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
I call it not.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
A single stack and not a double stack. I call
it a stack and a half. I don't know if
anybody else is called it that. But the staggered form
of the AMMO in the magazine is not like really
side by side. They're more like on top of each
other and staggered a little bit, which gives you more
(35:29):
capacity than a single stack, but a thinner grip than
you would have with a double stack. So Stephen grab Keith, Hey, Keith,
you there?
Speaker 9 (35:40):
Hey Tom there he is.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Okay, have you got the windows down on that car?
Speaker 5 (35:46):
No, sir, let me uh.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
That's that's all.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
That's a loud background noise. Can you can you get
me off? A speaker is better?
Speaker 13 (35:55):
I'm off, No, it's just loud as all get out.
I can barely hear you there. Okay, I tell you what,
We're going to work that out. We'll figure it out.
We'll get you back on here.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Basically, you got to go to handset the speakers or
earbuds just don't work. You got to just turn everything
off and go to regular the handset deal. But I
was talking about these double stack pistols. I like nineteen elevens.
The issue of nineteen elevens, of course, is they are
single stacks, which means reduced capacity. That may not realistically
(36:32):
be a huge deal if you shoot a nine milimeters
nineteen eleven, because you can get nine rounds, you know,
you can get actually can get ten round magazines for
your nine milimeters nineteen eleven. Now that's not seventeen rounds.
I get it, I understand, and it's all a compromise.
But if you said, okay, you got ten rounds of nine,
(36:53):
and I can carry two extra magazines, and I can
do pretty quick mag changes, and you've got a pistol
that is really accurate, that's.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Pretty sweet and really good trigger.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Now if you said, now, we can also get you
to fifteen rounds by going double stack nine mileveter I'm
just picking a number, fifteen rounds, and we can have
the grip be a little bit thicker, but not full
double stack thick. I'm all in. I'm very interested in that.
That's the pistol I've been looking for and I haven't
(37:27):
seen it yet. And if we can get Keith back up,
I hope we can. He's got the new Kimber two
K eleven and I want to get a report on
that and see how that shoots him. We did a
class at Range Writing Studios with the Jacob Gray folks.
Very nice pistol, high end pistol, staccato level, but still
(37:48):
big fat grip.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Had a chance.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
I could have purchased one of them at a good price,
like everydy in the class did. I opted not to,
and generally.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I'm not to buy guns, particularly if I can get
them at a good price. But I looked at this
and said, you know, that's only going to be a
range gun for me, and it's a little fatter than
I want. I'm still looking and maybe you know of one. Maybe,
And I look, I have not looked at every gun
out there. I haven't surveyed the entire market. If you
know of a nineteen eleven double stack nine millimeter that
(38:22):
has a grip that's a little thinner, give me a
call and let me know. It's probably what I've missed.
Because unless I said I don't get to see all
of them. I would like to know about that, because
in my world, I'm thinking I have my ideal commander
size double stack nine maybe fifteen rounds nineteen eleven issue
(38:44):
and not to be pure nineteen eleven but with that
great trigger. That's the gun I'm looking for. It's probably
out there, of course. Then again, it may be the
Bill Wilson thirty five hundred dollars one.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
But hey, if you ought to pay, you got play.
Are that way around, isn't it? Huh?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Here eight six six talk gun gets you in here?
Or Tom talk gun, Steve's weather's out of Omaha. I
got a range report on scary stuff. Hey, key, Steve,
how you doing?
Speaker 5 (39:20):
Yeah, Hey, I'm great, Tom.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Thanks?
Speaker 5 (39:23):
Uh so uh with a lot of his knife news
Traverse City in North Carolina. I decided to look at
my local gun range here. There's two or three here
in Oma. But and I'm taking pistol classes and rifle
classes from them in the past. I looked up and
(39:45):
they've got an edged weapons combative class. Oh, I signed up.
I signed up and I took it, and well, I
don't have anything to compare it to, you know, like
you were always saying it's the greatest class it. Well,
I don't have anything compared to. But I did learn
a lot from it, which is the point you always
(40:07):
have to.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Take away.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
When I do edge weapons stuff, I just like have nightmares.
It just scares the devil out of me.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
And me too now, I mean it did before, but
now it's even worse. On one hand, but now I've
got some tools to combat combat that, right, and uh,
I mean we sparred and it was as live as
you could be with a training knife. It wasn't before knife,
of course, and you had to go easy on your
(40:42):
on your apartment because we weren't learning any party. So
we just did the best we could well.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
And it also opens your eyes to just what a
person with a knife can do to you.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
Yes, and it happens so fast, you know, the whole
twenty one foot thing. Yep, people talking, But that was
part of the class as well, And it was like,
can you draw your knife faster from concealment or your pistol?
And if surprises you again, you're reacting. You're not proactive,
(41:15):
you're reacting, and so we just it was it was
create space and then go your handgun. If you have that,
or go to a different weapon or whatever you've got.
Use every tool. Now we just have an extra tool.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 5 (41:33):
You say you carry two flashlights and you don't carry
two pocket knives. I would put one in each front pocket.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
That's one thing.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah, so you can draw with either hand because if
one hand gets occupied, you can draw one with the
other hand.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
You don't know what you don't know, and you react
the best you.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Can now, real quickly.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Because I got woman that left folding knife versus fixed blade.
Speaker 5 (42:00):
Uh, we only trained with folding lock blades because they're
easier to conceal. You still have to deploy and snap
it open. Right, You've got to train, you know. Buy
one that fits your hand. Don't get one too small.
Get a big just like a handgun. Don't get it
too small so that fits you. And then get a
(42:24):
trainer that's exactly the same or as close to the
same as you can and practice it becomes your new
fidget spinner. Get that thing out and snap it open.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
All the time of it.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Yep, yep, got a trainer. Otherwise you're gonna end up
cutting yourself. Just you are, because that's just how it
goes hey, that's a great range report. I really appreciate that.
When I took the QCB class with Steve Trani. Of
course Steve is one of the great knife experts and
just scary dude. When you see what these guys can
(42:56):
do and you get showed us some video of just
how fast somebody with a knife can be off on
you and kill you, frankly, just a matter of seconds,
it's unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Those kind of classes are good.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
For awareness if nothing else, even if you say, okay,
I'm not going to carry a knife, just learning what
can be done and what should be done, how you
protect against it. So if you get a chance, by
all means, take an edge weapons class. Take a class
well basically defends against that a QCB class close quarters
(43:31):
battle if you will.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
They're offered a lot of different places if.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
When we come back, I want to talk about had
an incident happened last night where I had to correct
somebody on gun handling.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
That wasn't great.
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Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. Tom Gresham here if
you want to join us eight sixty six talk gunder
Tom Talk Gun. I want to talk to an old
friend of ours. I've been shooting with him. We've done
competitions together, We've goofed off and had fun together. Randy
luth joined us right now. You know him from Luthar
and also Randy from DPMs Panther Arms because you started
(00:34):
that company, didn't it?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I did, Hello, Tom, I did. I started DPMs Panther
Arms in nineteen eighty six and started as a government
contract consulting company teach machine shops how to get government contracts.
And at my previous job, I was VP president of
a precision machine shop where we made a whole bunch
of departments defense parts for the most likely, mostly for
(00:59):
the Army M sixteen parts, M two of three parts,
nineteen eleven parts, and so left that company nineteen eighty six,
started DPMs Consulting and then I was brokering on the
side of is Brokingarm sixteen parts around the country because
I knew the government contractors that were making them, and
then started making rifles. Came up with some better mouse
(01:20):
traps for the AR and made them shoot a little
bit better, more accurately by tightening up tolerances. Then DPMs
migrated in Panther Arms in the early nineties where we
got our manufacturing license started making full barrel fluted tack
driver ars for the environment market. Built DPMs into a
(01:45):
respectable company. Back in those days, the AR fifteen was
not very popular and had a certain image.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, people didn't really know what it was or what
they could do with it. And not only did you
make really good rifles, but you also were at the
forefront of showing people, well, this is what you can
do with them. And you, actually, i would say, are
very responsible for people starting to use ars for hunting,
because you used your ars to hunt everything all over
the world.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
We did, we did, and thanks for the compliment. It
was around two thousand when we started making our three
toh eight, and so to promote our three toh eight,
what better way than to go out and do some
hunting with it. So at DPMs, we made all kinds
of any caliber that would fit into the three to
eight magazine we made for the AR ten and I
(02:35):
took those calibers of the short action to three hundred
short action ultramag the seven mm eight to sixty Remington
three thirty eight Federal. So with those different calibers and
wanting to promote the fact that you could successfully and
respectfully hunt with them, they are ten R fifteen. Off
(02:58):
I went hunting and mountain, goat, hunting, elk, you name it.
I have completed the North American twenty nine species. I
think sounds like I'm bragging, but it's just to promote.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
You're You're exactly I was going to say. That's what
you were doing.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
You're promoting the idea of hunting with ars and telling people, Look,
this is ultimately you're any What you were doing is
you're telling people, look, understand.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
This is just a rifle. That's all it is.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
It's a rifle you can use for a lot of
different things, and this is one of the things you
can do with it. It's a semi automatic rifle, and
semi automatic rifles have been around for one hundred years.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
This is just the newest version.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Let me, let me let's bounce from that, because I
want to let I just want to let people know
kind of a little bit about who you are and
what you've done and the fact that you really know
your way around guns. But let's talk about what's going
on right now, which is you're running for the board
of the NRA. Now, Lord knows why, because you know,
I think I wouldn't wish.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
That on my worst enemy. But here we go.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So you decide you're going to do this, So what's
what's going on? Why are you doing this?
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Well?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Over the years, I mean over the decades, I've been
asked to buy industry people, by customers, by friends. Because
of the passion that I have. The NRA is is
the best organization for our Second Amendment rights. In the past,
they've been haarnished, you know, over the past several years.
The NRA will never go away.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
It will always be here.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
It just needs some new refreshments at the director level,
I think. And Doug Hamlin's doing a great job. He
had to take take over an organization that that had
some problems with previous management leadership, and uh, I think
he's doing a great job. And it'll take a while,
(04:42):
but I think if we can get some like minded
directors on the board. Some people are calling it the
reform side. I've made the decision, I mean, kicking it
around for years. I'm excited about it. You're right, it's
it's a challenge, but you know, I've been accept challenges
for the past forty fifty years.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So sure enough, we know. Let me just to tell
people so they understand what's going on. Yes, we have,
you know, new leadership at the nr A, and you know,
obviously the lot of years gone and all those books
are gone, and we've got the good guys.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Are in, but not in every position. And the board
is made.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Up of seventy six people, which, as you pointed out
to be earlier, is that's just the nuttiest thing in
the world. And maybe at some point the bilogs could
get changed and we change that.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
It's hard enough to get twelve people to agree, or
nine people to agree, or three people to agree, but
it just minimizes I think the uh yeah, and you.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Have been we should point out you have been on
the board of multi billion dollar companies, so you know
how things work.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I have personal banks, gunbroker dot Com Amolink USA Shooting Team,
Olympic Shooting Team. So I've seen it all the good
the ugly. So with that experience, I think that I
can help offer some some good ideas, good leadership.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Well, and here's what's going on. Here's what's going on.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
There's still a battle going on on the board, and
the battle is to get the good people in. And
we've still got some of the my words, some of
the bad people are still there and we've got to
move those people out and get good people in. In
buzzmills of course from gunsight there, Uh, we're basically one
of the leaders of getting this thing right, and you
would be one of those. And more power to you
(06:35):
and think thankfully you're doing this and you're willing to
sign up. And I'm just going to tell you, I'm
going to give you my full throated endorsement. Like I
said I would, I wouldn't throw my worst enemy into that,
except that you're one of my best friends.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
So I'm gonna throw you in there, buddy.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Well, I appreciate that, Tom, And uh, it's like I said,
it's my whole life when you're in the air fifteen
rightful business since the early nineties. That's a big enough
challenge that I've seen over the past four decades, challenge
from the media, challenge from other gun owners back in
(07:13):
the nineties, and so challenges are accepted, and I look
forward to helping the NRA get back to five million
or ten million members and bring back respect to the NRA,
which it deserves.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
We all benefit from having a strong NRA. And I
know people got to where they were bad mouthing it
and well actually with good reasons for quite a while.
But now it's back or coming back, and we need
a good, strong NRA, and I think Randy Luth is
one of the people who can make it happen. I
would encourage people vote for Randy Luth when you're voting
for board members this time. In the meantime, let's go
shoot something.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Let's do it. I was out in Colorado last week
with my buddies, kind of guiding and all fitting for
some archery, and some preye dogs got my way.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, we'll do that.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
We had an old bear we bumped in down by
the beaver pond where we're trying to call in some milk,
and here's this ancient cinnamon colored bear. His right ear
was ripped off. He's about ten years away. So we
started doing the hollering and the big image, you know,
raising your arms. This thing was so old he couldn't
(08:25):
see us, he couldn't hardly hear us.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
He never knew you were there. It didn't We're.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Screaming and yelling. Was he ready to charge?
Speaker 4 (08:37):
I did.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I wasn't hunting, but I had a forty four meg
chest holster, so I had that. I had that ready
just in case. But yeah, we had a little fun
to do some hunting and shooting last weekend.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
That's great. All right. Here's one other thing. I mentioned
this to you earlier in the week.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I'm pretty sure the Eugene Stoner they got the patent
on the AR ten originally in nineteen fifty six, and
that means that next year, it's seventy years that this
platform has been around.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
It's hardly a newcomer anymore, isn't that something?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
You know? I was born in fifty four, and so
over the years, you know, you look at the history
of Eugene Stoner and in what year it was, and
fifty four was involved. And then I think you said
the patents were in fifty six. I mean that is
just amazing that the Stoner's design was so far ahead.
He was decades ahead of the whole firearms industry with
(09:32):
that design, with seventy seventy six aluminum forgings and just
just amazing technology. So it is it is kind of
interesting to see how long that rifle has been around
and all the improvements you know that we did at DPMs,
(09:55):
but more importantly that spurred on things that we did
and Carl Lewis and other people in the industry, Bushmaster
people and Bob Shoots at Olympic Arms. He deserves a
lot more credit some of the designs that he had
back in the nineties and early eighties. He was kind
(10:16):
of a mentor for me as well. But to see
what American ingenuity has done with the AR fifteen. Every
year something cool comes out, this gets better, some new
design or ideas, and we continue to do the same.
We've got some launches coming this year. But it's just
(10:36):
been fun for me to see an AR fifteen rifle
grow from the eighties when people despised it for the
most part, well.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
They wouldn't even let it in at the shot show.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
No, we had some difficulty with that in the nineties. Yeah,
I remember that carving rifles. But that shows how things
can change. I mean, you had whoever it was at
the shot show. You know they made a decision. Well
guess what now The largest portion of the shot show
is the last six section in AR fifteen. I mean
(11:10):
there's twenty million ars supposedly in the America.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Now, hey, Randy, I'm out of time. I got a
scoot here again. Once again, I'm gonna tell people it's
l U T H. Randy luth And on your NRA
board the election when it comes around and vote for him.
All right, Randy, thank you so much. I appreciate it,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
All right, see buddy, thanks.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
All right, do you take care of I. We'll be
right back with more gun talk.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
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Speaker 2 (12:32):
Put all your gear on that you carry and then
roll around on the ground. Now, get up all your
gear that's on the ground. That's what you're not gonna
have in a fight.
Speaker 7 (12:39):
Gun talks should be in your podcast feed.
Speaker 8 (12:42):
Check out gun Talk Nation. What's it like to be
blown up?
Speaker 9 (12:45):
You know, if it's like C four, it's almost like.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
A smack hunting.
Speaker 7 (12:49):
Yeah, we talk about that too.
Speaker 10 (12:51):
On your crosshairs, I like a thin crosshair, AJE.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
You're really dating yourself by calling things crosshairs.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
You'reredical whatever.
Speaker 8 (12:58):
Have some fun and stay in with the gun Talk podcast.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
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to know who you're buying from. What if you could
buy quality use guns for a lifetime warranty from the
internet's largest online reseller. That's what you get at Derry'sguns
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(13:23):
your gun, pistols, rifles, shotguns and more. Check out their
inventory today at derrysguns dot com.
Speaker 11 (13:38):
Hey guys, Max Michelle here, captain of the SIGs Hour
Shooting Team. I just wanted to take a moment to
congratulate Tom on hitting thirty years on the air with
Gun Talk. It's an incredible accomplishment and well deserved. Tom
has always brought us the information that we wanted and
needed to know as it relates to the Second Amendment
or a gun enthusiast or anyone out there that's carrying
to protect our loved ones and our great nation. So Tom,
(14:00):
we thank you for these last thirty years and we
look forward to thirty more. Buddy.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
All Right, as I sit here, I've got my badge
are packed. I'm ready to go. As the song says,
I got more bags packed than I know what to
do with, because I'm heading out in the morning for
this very much anticipated moose hunt to bring up to speed.
I and my buddy Mike and I were both applied
(14:29):
to get the very hard to get tag for moose
hunting in Idaho, and we thought, well, if either one
of us gets it, that'll be great and we'll all
go up there and hunt together, because it takes the
team to hunt moose, especially if you get one down. Incredibly,
we both drew tags early, ten tags in this hunt
(14:49):
we applied for, and we both got tags.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
So Mike was up there early. He went up.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
He already got his moose, he brought it back. He
spent the week cutting it up, roughly three hundred poun
in the freezer. So we're gonna load up at head
out in the morning, go up to North Idaho. Five
of us. I'm the only one with a tag, but
I got four in support you said we had. We'll
all go up, we'll camp together, we'll unt together, we'll
help you out. It's nice to have friends. And I
(15:19):
really wanted, I mean anticipating using this new Ish rifle. Oh,
it's a used rifle I bought, chambered for the three
thirty eight odd six improved cartridge. It's a thirty out
six necked up to thirty three caliber to take three
thirty eight bullets. I got it a year ago, and
(15:40):
when I got it it was mark three thirty eight six,
but didn't say anything about improved, and the people who
sold it online didn't say anything about it being improved
when I went out and shot it.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
As soon as I shot it and took the empty case.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
That went, oh, that's an improved case, all right, wasn't
what I was bargaining for its dow cack handle it.
And then through the I don't know, several months i've
been shooting it, it's like, yeah, generally it shoots pretty well,
for occasionally there's an issue. And then recently I was
out and starting to have a problem. I had some
(16:17):
failures to fire where I would get light primer strikes
and then faire to extract a fired case. And I'm
looking at this and going, Okay, what's going on and
then looking more carefully, And when I put a case
in or loaded round in and put it back out
without firing it, I'm getting weird scratch marks on the
(16:41):
neck of the case and going, yes, no, this isn't
this is not right. So I contacted the folks at
Outcast Arms. Talk to Glenn. Outcast Arms is the folks
who used to work for Melvin Forbes at Ultra Light
Arms and Virginia, same shop, same people, and this is
(17:03):
an Ultra Light Arms rifle. He told me what I
was thinking. He said, yeah, send it back, let's take
a look at it. And I mean, and they didn't
do the work on it. He got it in and
of course the fact that somebody had rechambered the rifle
and did not restamp the barrel right off the bat
that tells me that there was some sloppy gunsmithing. I
(17:24):
don't know who did that somewhere along the way. So
Glenn took the rifle, took the barrel off, turned the
barrel back, he cut off some of the back of
the barrel, so you're starting fresh and cutting a new chamber.
And then cut a new chamber, and it had to
be the three thirty eight six improved. There was no
(17:44):
way to go back to the original three thirty eight
at six. So he ended up the barrel shorter and
then he stamped the barrel correctly and it's really a
good looking job. Came back and he was terrific about
getting it back to me quickly. So I came back
on Friday, I take it out, arranged Friday to shoot it.
I had loaded some AMMO. It did not go well.
(18:07):
It turns out it wasn't his fault at all. And
I'd loaded up some of these really nice I've used
them before, two hundred and ten grain nozzleal petitions, good bullet,
and I used reloader seventeen powder which I've used before
and other things.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
And I'm out at the range and.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I'm shooting like four five inch groups one hundred yards
from a rifle that I know has shot three quarter
inch groups before. Okay, something's not right. Now I'm adjusting
the scope trying to get it to where it's supposed
to be, and it's like you adjust it down and
it goes way down and you just it back up
it goes way up, and think, got okay, I got
a bad scope. Clearly it's something's wrong because I'd put
(18:51):
a different scope on it, brought it back, swapped the
scope out, and now I thought, wait a minute, you
have multiple variables here. You've used different AMMO and a
different scope. You don't know which is whitch. So I
loaded up some different AMMO, go out to the rain
yesterday morning, and the scope is fine, and the new
(19:13):
AMMO I loaded, is shooting three core overange groups. Went Well,
that's good, But what's going on here? It was it
the scope. So I had some of the older AMMO,
the stuff i'd loaded last week. Older, and it's got
the two hundred and ten Grande Nogeal petitions again. It's
(19:33):
a famous book, really good boot. I shoot it and
I'm shooting five inch groups with this AMMO.
Speaker 9 (19:40):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Now, clearly I know the AMMO is the issue. The
scope is fine, and the new AMMA is fine. So
I've got a rig. It's good to go. I'm gonna
be taking it out hunting. But now I don't know.
This is where handloading is interesting, fascinating, frustrating, all of
that because I changed more than one variable. I used
a different bullet and a different powder. I don't know
(20:04):
which is the problem. So when I get back from
my moss hunt, I will start over again. And some
would say, wow, that's a.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Lot of work.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Well, it actually is just a lot of shooting and
a lot of fun. And I get to troubleshoot this
thing and figure out what's going on, and we'll get
figured out. I'll also load some more AMMO using the
two hundred and twenty five grain accubines, which is what
I've loaded up, which you're shooting really well, and I'll
probably use that on my alcut that's coming up. All
(20:35):
that to say that this was an interesting exercise. It's
part of the trouble shooting process that you go through.
Ryan said something last week. He said, you know, reloading
now is a thing. It's not just for gray haired guys.
I'm thinking, well, I wasn't gray haired when I started it,
(20:56):
but I am now because I started reloading about almost
sixty years ago.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
But it makes the point. It's interesting you have.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
A new group of rifle shooters, especially not loading for
economy like a competitive shooter, pistol shooter might just to
get a lot of AMMO. But you got people shooting
thousand yards a mile where franknins factory AMO is not
good enough, and they figured it out. That's why Hayloding
(21:30):
got popular forty fifty years ago. Factory AMMO was not
good enough, and we could use really much better bullets
and we could load demo that was more accurate than
our rifles.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Same thing.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Now you've got bullets high BC bullets that they're using
for this long range shooting. And they're loading AMMO that
is so precise. They're getting their extreme spreads down into
the single digits and their standard deviations down to one
or two. It's crazy. It doesn't matter what. It doesn't
matter to me at four hundred yards, but if you're
(22:02):
shooting at a thousand or fifteen hundred yards, yeah it matters.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
So hand learning is not just.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
For us old gray hair guys. It's for anybody who
wants better AMMO. As simple as that. Hey, I'm Tom Gresham.
We'll be back in a second with more gun talk.
Incoming fire has the right of way.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Interesting comment, interesting thought.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
You've got a guy who drives a truck through a door,
through a wall, and into a church, starts shooting people.
If all the fire is coming from him, it's got
the right of way. But you know what, if there's
gunfire going back at him, I mean, obviously, if it
hits him, that's good. Stops him, distracts him, slows him down,
(22:53):
dissuades him. Even if it's not hitting him, If it's
hitting around him and not hitting anybody else, then that's distracting,
dissuades him from doing what he's doing. Maybe by some time,
time is critical. This guy drives his vehicle into the church,
(23:16):
shoots a bunch of people, and now it sounds like
maybe he set off an ied of some sort, set
off an incendiary device. I'm having people online over on
X you can follow us over there. We've got a
discussion going there right now. I am gunn talk there.
People are saying, yeah, but I carry a snub nose
(23:39):
and an ankle holster. Maybe I should rethink that. Yeah,
I get it. It's easy to carry that way. It's comfortable,
it's easy to conceal.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
I get it. You don't even have to change the
way you dress. And yet.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You're on one end of a church sanctuary. The shooter
is on the other end. Even in a small church
that's probably thirty yards in a big church, could be
twice that. And he's got lots of AMMO with him
because he came to run up a body count. And
(24:19):
you got five rounds or maybe six rounds. Maybe you
got a speed strip, maybe you got a speedloader with you.
If I pointed that out, if I drew up that
scenario and said you can take any of the guns
you have, or any gun you want that you can carry,
is the snubby what you would carry. There's nobody would
(24:43):
say yes, nobody. Yeah, but it's where I can cai. No, no, no, no, no, no,
you're not listening to me. I'm not saying what's comfortable.
I'm not saying what's easy to conceal. I really like
Clint Smith's comment, of course, he's the guy that found
a thunder ranch.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Very quotable.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
He said, a defensive pistol is not supposed to be comfortable.
It's supposed to be comforting when you carry a big gun.
It feels like a big gun when you carry it,
but it also feels like a big gun when you
pull it out and go to work with it.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
It doesn't have to be a big gun.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
It probably shouldn't be a small gun either. Now our
idea of what's a small gun and what's acceptable it's changed.
The sig P three sixty five kind of changed everything
because you go, oh, that's a smaller pistol and it
shoots really well. Yeah it does, especially if you put
a red dot on it. Now you're not worried about
(25:51):
the site radius and they're inherently accurate. And then you
had every manufacturer came along and came out with a
gun roughly the same size with the same capacity, so
it really doesn't matter. I feel like Smith or Ruger
or Sig or Taurus or whoever fn they all have
that basically that same pistol. Pick the one you like,
(26:13):
learn to shoot it, or maybe go one size up
and that's okay too. Go to the Smith CSX or
the M and P two point zero or the Ruger
rx M or fill in the blank, whatever it is.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Yeah, but how am I going to carry that? Ah?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
There's a rub, right. This is where we get into
an individual situation. You may or may not be able
to pull this off. Okay, I give you that, depending
on where you work, where you go, what you have,
how you have to dress. In my case, I can
just pull out a short tail and leave it out.
I used to be tucking your shirtail. Look sharp, guy.
(26:57):
Now I am willing to take my shirttail out and
just leave it out. Because if I do that, I
can carry a full sized pistol in an outside the
waistband holster and have it concealed. And now I got
a full sized guy if I need it, plus another
magazine on the other side of the mag pouch. Yet
(27:19):
it's a little bit more involved, and yeah, I have
to make concessions in terms of the way I dress,
but it's okay. I've adjusted to that. You got to
figure it out for yourself. I don't have the answer
for you, but I do. You know what I do
(27:39):
is I ask the questions and have you kind of
figured out yourself is a snubby in this situation that
we're watching unfold right now on TV. What you would
want to have in that situation? Clearly if you said,
what can I have? If I have anything, Yeah, I
(28:00):
want to an ar with a whole bunch of thirty
round mags. I'm probably not gonna have that with me
in church.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
I'm just not.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
But I probably am going to have a relatively large
ish pistol. We're fifteen to seventeen to nineteen rounds and
another magazine with seventeen to nineteen rounds in it, and
I can put shots on target at a half a
football field, on target being the largest target. I'm not
(28:31):
gonna be making head shots there, but I can have
bullets hitting all around him and probably hitting him and
getting his attention. If I get his attention, guess what,
he's not paying attention to the people he's trying to
kill and we're buying time because the cops are going
to be there soon ish. They're gonna be there in
(28:53):
two minutes, three minutes, four minutes. Now, the guy can
kill a lot of people in that amount of time.
But if I can distract him even better, if I
can shoot him, and then when the cops get there,
fewer people have died. That's really worse. It's about, isn't it.
None of us likes that we have to think about
(29:13):
this stuff, But you know what not thinking about it
is what children do? You cover your ears and go no, no, no, nine,
I can't hear you. We're better than that. You are
better than that. You have to think about what are
you going to do then? And you got to take
(29:37):
steps now to make sure you can do that then
eight six six talk gun be right back.
Speaker 8 (29:58):
What the latest and guns, gear and sh info straight
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(30:18):
at gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 10 (30:26):
Owning, shooting, and carrying firearms is your responsibility. Range Ready
Studios offers gun training classes taught by top level instructors
with real world experience. Range Ready delivers basic and advanced
classes for pistol and rifle. We also offer a lady's
only handgun course. All these training classes at range Ready
(30:47):
prepare you to use your gun and win the fight.
Find us at rangereadystudios dot com to learn more.
Speaker 8 (30:56):
Looking for real talk about guns, gear and the shooting lifestyle,
then tune into untalk Nation. Each week, your host, me
Ryan Gresham, sits down with industry insiders, trainers, and everyday
shooters to bring you the stories, news insights you won't
hear anywhere else. Whether it's the latest innovations, pro tips
for the range, or the hot topics everyone's buzzing about,
(31:17):
you'll find it here. Subscribe now to gun Talk Nation,
available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 12 (31:28):
There's more to this world of guns than you realize.
Your entry to our world is a click away at
gun talk dot com. Stay informed and entertained on the
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(31:49):
Visit gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
All right back with you here, Let's go to the
phones line five owls with us Oude of Mountain Home, Arkansas.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Hello, owl, what you got.
Speaker 9 (32:15):
Greetings, I've got a ranger report to me. Tech kel
Tech came up with that new stripper clip pistol. I
got one. Yeah, yeah, after waiting forever, and uh, it's
it works real good. Except when I shot the uh
(32:40):
not the hollow tip the target demo at the uh
it would it would jam up, it would. I'd have
to manually do something each shot. And then I switched
over to another AMMO that was a plastic chip, right,
(33:07):
and and it worked every time as fast or as
slow as you wanted to go. And it was. It
was wonderful. So in the owner's manual says I, uh
that you're supposed to find an animal that works and
then stick with it.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Yeah, makes sense. So works.
Speaker 9 (33:30):
You're a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Well, we try to have fun.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I mean, sometimes we've got to talk about serious stuff,
but sometimes, you know, we got to remember that shooting
is fun. And you know, all these guns are are
pretty interesting devices. We just got to be safe with
the way that we handle them.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I appreciate that range report. Well, let's as long as
you're doing range reports. Let's grab Keith out of Denver.
He's got a range report for us. But you got
something cool you've been shooting.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Hey, Keith.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
See if Keith is still there, Hey, uh oh, tell
you what we're doing on a hold for a second.
Try to get him up there, because I want to
get this report because I've actually been well. I have
an interest in Double Stack nineteen eleven's. My issue are
going along with interest is that generally they're pretty fat.
(34:19):
They have fat grips, and I have short, stubby fingers,
and it's hard for me to wrap around them. I
can shoot them, I can do that, but they're a
little bit small, or rather on my hands are small,
and then these grips are fat. The question that I have,
and I was hoping to get this range before I'm
hoping to getting back in here, is most I think.
(34:41):
I think most of the Double Stack nineteen elevens originally
started out as Double Stack for forty five. But if
you're going to make it just as a double stack
for nine, is there a way to make the grip thinner?
And then I kind of flash back to the Sea p.
Three sixty five, which they did something a little bit
(35:05):
interesting there to keep the grip thinner.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
I call it not.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
A single stack and not a double stack. I call
it a stack and a half. I don't know if
anybody else is called it that. But the staggered form
of the AMMO in the magazine is not like really
side by side. They're more like on top of each
other and staggered a little bit, which gives you more
(35:29):
capacity than a single stack, but a thinner grip than
you would have with a double stack. So Stephen grab Keith, Hey, Keith,
you there?
Speaker 9 (35:40):
Hey Tom there he is.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Okay, have you got the windows down on that car?
Speaker 5 (35:46):
No, sir, let me uh.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
That's that's all.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
That's a loud background noise. Can you can you get
me off? A speaker is better?
Speaker 13 (35:55):
I'm off, No, it's just loud as all get out.
I can barely hear you there. Okay, I tell you what,
We're going to work that out. We'll figure it out.
We'll get you back on here.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Basically, you got to go to handset the speakers or
earbuds just don't work. You got to just turn everything
off and go to regular the handset deal. But I
was talking about these double stack pistols. I like nineteen elevens.
The issue of nineteen elevens, of course, is they are
single stacks, which means reduced capacity. That may not realistically
(36:32):
be a huge deal if you shoot a nine milimeters
nineteen eleven, because you can get nine rounds, you know,
you can get actually can get ten round magazines for
your nine milimeters nineteen eleven. Now that's not seventeen rounds.
I get it, I understand, and it's all a compromise.
But if you said, okay, you got ten rounds of nine,
(36:53):
and I can carry two extra magazines, and I can
do pretty quick mag changes, and you've got a pistol
that is really accurate, that's.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Pretty sweet and really good trigger.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Now if you said, now, we can also get you
to fifteen rounds by going double stack nine mileveter I'm
just picking a number, fifteen rounds, and we can have
the grip be a little bit thicker, but not full
double stack thick. I'm all in. I'm very interested in that.
That's the pistol I've been looking for and I haven't
(37:27):
seen it yet. And if we can get Keith back up,
I hope we can. He's got the new Kimber two
K eleven and I want to get a report on
that and see how that shoots him. We did a
class at Range Writing Studios with the Jacob Gray folks.
Very nice pistol, high end pistol, staccato level, but still
(37:48):
big fat grip.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Had a chance.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
I could have purchased one of them at a good price,
like everydy in the class did. I opted not to,
and generally.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I'm not to buy guns, particularly if I can get
them at a good price. But I looked at this
and said, you know, that's only going to be a
range gun for me, and it's a little fatter than
I want. I'm still looking and maybe you know of one. Maybe,
And I look, I have not looked at every gun
out there. I haven't surveyed the entire market. If you
know of a nineteen eleven double stack nine millimeter that
(38:22):
has a grip that's a little thinner, give me a
call and let me know. It's probably what I've missed.
Because unless I said I don't get to see all
of them. I would like to know about that, because
in my world, I'm thinking I have my ideal commander
size double stack nine maybe fifteen rounds nineteen eleven issue
(38:44):
and not to be pure nineteen eleven but with that
great trigger. That's the gun I'm looking for. It's probably
out there, of course. Then again, it may be the
Bill Wilson thirty five hundred dollars one.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
But hey, if you ought to pay, you got play.
Are that way around, isn't it? Huh?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Here eight six six talk gun gets you in here?
Or Tom talk gun, Steve's weather's out of Omaha. I
got a range report on scary stuff. Hey, key, Steve,
how you doing?
Speaker 5 (39:20):
Yeah, Hey, I'm great, Tom.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Thanks?
Speaker 5 (39:23):
Uh so uh with a lot of his knife news
Traverse City in North Carolina. I decided to look at
my local gun range here. There's two or three here
in Oma. But and I'm taking pistol classes and rifle
classes from them in the past. I looked up and
(39:45):
they've got an edged weapons combative class. Oh, I signed up.
I signed up and I took it, and well, I
don't have anything to compare it to, you know, like
you were always saying it's the greatest class it. Well,
I don't have anything compared to. But I did learn
a lot from it, which is the point you always
(40:07):
have to.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Take away.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
When I do edge weapons stuff, I just like have nightmares.
It just scares the devil out of me.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
And me too now, I mean it did before, but
now it's even worse. On one hand, but now I've
got some tools to combat combat that, right, and uh,
I mean we sparred and it was as live as
you could be with a training knife. It wasn't before knife,
of course, and you had to go easy on your
(40:42):
on your apartment because we weren't learning any party. So
we just did the best we could well.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
And it also opens your eyes to just what a
person with a knife can do to you.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
Yes, and it happens so fast, you know, the whole
twenty one foot thing. Yep, people talking, But that was
part of the class as well, And it was like,
can you draw your knife faster from concealment or your pistol?
And if surprises you again, you're reacting. You're not proactive,
(41:15):
you're reacting, and so we just it was it was
create space and then go your handgun. If you have that,
or go to a different weapon or whatever you've got.
Use every tool. Now we just have an extra tool.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 5 (41:33):
You say you carry two flashlights and you don't carry
two pocket knives. I would put one in each front pocket.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
That's one thing.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah, so you can draw with either hand because if
one hand gets occupied, you can draw one with the
other hand.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
You don't know what you don't know, and you react
the best you.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Can now, real quickly.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Because I got woman that left folding knife versus fixed blade.
Speaker 5 (42:00):
Uh, we only trained with folding lock blades because they're
easier to conceal. You still have to deploy and snap
it open. Right, You've got to train, you know. Buy
one that fits your hand. Don't get one too small.
Get a big just like a handgun. Don't get it
too small so that fits you. And then get a
(42:24):
trainer that's exactly the same or as close to the
same as you can and practice it becomes your new
fidget spinner. Get that thing out and snap it open.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
All the time of it.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Yep, yep, got a trainer. Otherwise you're gonna end up
cutting yourself. Just you are, because that's just how it
goes hey, that's a great range report. I really appreciate that.
When I took the QCB class with Steve Trani. Of
course Steve is one of the great knife experts and
just scary dude. When you see what these guys can
(42:56):
do and you get showed us some video of just
how fast somebody with a knife can be off on
you and kill you, frankly, just a matter of seconds,
it's unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Those kind of classes are good.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
For awareness if nothing else, even if you say, okay,
I'm not going to carry a knife, just learning what
can be done and what should be done, how you
protect against it. So if you get a chance, by
all means, take an edge weapons class. Take a class
well basically defends against that a QCB class close quarters
(43:31):
battle if you will.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
They're offered a lot of different places if.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
When we come back, I want to talk about had
an incident happened last night where I had to correct
somebody on gun handling.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
That wasn't great.
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