In This Hour:
-- What makes the Bianchi Cup the toughest shooting match and why do the best shooters keep returning to it? Steve Horsman explains the fascination with this pistol competition.
-- Yes, you really can buy government surplus rifles and handguns.
-- Can you really prepare for a gunfight? Yes. With training and home-based "research" you can better avoid an attack or win, if needed.
Gun Talk 05.18.25 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- What makes the Bianchi Cup the toughest shooting match and why do the best shooters keep returning to it? Steve Horsman explains the fascination with this pistol competition.
-- Yes, you really can buy government surplus rifles and handguns.
-- Can you really prepare for a gunfight? Yes. With training and home-based "research" you can better avoid an attack or win, if needed.
Gun Talk 05.18.25 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Ruger Sfaar is one of the trim is threeh
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Ruger dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. Tom Gresham here if
you want to join us the course, same deal, Tom
talkgun That is the phone number here. Okay, there's an
event coming up well just in days right now. It
is one of the bigger, smaller, most important, strange shooting
events that you may or may not have heard of,
but it's important in the shooting world. People know all
(00:32):
about it. Well, I was able to grab a friend
of ours, Steve Horseman, is actually on his way to
the b Yankee Cup. But Steve, you're doing a little
quick stop before you get there.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yes, Tom, I stopped.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
There's a range outside of Kansas City called the Pineer
Gun Club and they actually do a match kind of
like we considered a warm up match to the Yankee Cup,
which takes place next week in Hallsville, Missouri, basically at
the town just outside of Columbia, Missouri.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Let's the background on a banke cut because I mean
everybody talks about it. I've been there and from the outside.
Look I am. When you're watching, you're thinking, well, what's
so hard about this? And all the competitors and the
top competitors are there, they all go, no, no, no, you
don't understand. This is hard.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yes, it is really hard.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
When I first started doing this, I guess it was
two thousand and four, two thousand and five, my good
friend Rob Lason talking me into doing this.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
And I was shooting iron sights.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Back then, I could still see iron sights and it
was incredibly humbling. I originally went because I wanted to
become a better USPSA shooter.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And I just wasn't very accurate.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Well, since I've gotten older, I've moved onto the open category,
which is basically, can do whatever you.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Want to the gun there.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
The one destriction is it can't trigger, can't be less
than two pounds, and that's about it.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
But first of all, we ought to say you should
know better than to get into anything that Rob Latham
tries to direct you into.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Right, you're absolutely right, and then he's like a crack dealer.
He got me into this, and then he stops showing up.
I give him a hard time all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, exactly, there you go, all right, So you get there,
you start shooting this thing. You go, holy moly, these
things are hard to hit.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
It's really hard.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
And even with the open guns, which but the open
gun you could have one hundred and ninety.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
One perfect shots and you fire one by a shot
and your match.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Is over right exactly. And for people ought to go
to look at it on YouTube or other places. I mean,
it's very interesting. You have different matches. You got movers
that you're shooting, you're shooting from you know, plot, you draw,
PLoP down on the ground, shooting prone position. You got
different kinds. But it is this is an accuracy match,
isn't it?
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Well, you know, Tom, it is. But how funny thing is.
I got to give credit to our good buddy Rob.
He told me several years ago. He goes, you know,
it's actually a speed event And I said, how could
that be? And he said, because the requirements of the
shot and the time that you have make it a
speed event.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Because the accuracy requirements is so hard.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
For example, on the practical event, that's just two targets
and you shoot it at ten, fifteen, twenty five and
fifty yards, well at let's say twenty five yards For example,
you have to draw and fire one shot at each
of the two targets.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
The first string of fire is five seconds.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Well, you don't think that's very that's not too fast, right,
And then the second string is two shots on each
target in six seconds, and then the third string is
three shots on each target in six seconds.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Eh.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Okay, Well, most of the.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Open shooters, like myself, we're going prone to fire those
shots because we're trying to shoot at a four inch
circle on the targets.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
That's the X ring.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Okay, So now you're drawing and having to draw your standing,
you draw, you got to get down on the ground
and fire your shots in six seconds.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Correct, correct, And every string of fire in this entire
event you start with your.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Wrists above your shoulders. Oh man, surrender position kind of thing, right.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
We ought to tell people your background. You were a marine,
you are a cop. You're a professional shooter for Springfield.
You've been in the industry, you've been a shooter for
a long time. You shot all the different events, and
yet you keep going back to the b Yankee Cup.
What's so special about it?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
It's the match itself, but it's also the friendships that
you make and it's really a test of your shooting
skill because it all really boils down to your ability
to fire an actor's shot, and that's that's the challenge
of it.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
And Doug Kanigg and Bridge Pi, they've.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Those two guys have won the match between them like
thirty some times, and they still come and they still
get nervous. That's part of the part of it too,
and it's just the hintry of the match. For example,
the match was started in nineteen seventy nine by gentleman
named Ray Chapman and John k Yankee. John Yankee owned
the Yankee Gun leather and they wanted to create a match.
(04:44):
Ray Chapman had the Chapman Academy in Hallsville, the three
Well that's where they built the b Yankee Cup. At
that time, there were no other places in the country
to shoot it.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Because of the events you had turning targets.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
You had a moving target, which no other ranges really had,
so that was kind of the draw. People would come
to this and it was the only time that they
would ever get a chance to shoot a moving target.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
And the moving target example is.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
A sixty foot opening and it moves ten feet a second.
It starts off on the right, moves to the left,
and then it stops, and then you reload and then
you do it again. But since then, obviously it's been
forty five, forty seven years. Whatever other places have it,
other ranges have these these taking it up upon themselves
because there is At the height of the popularity of
(05:31):
the Cup, there was three hundred plus shooters and we're
getting shooters from all over the country. We're getting shooters
from Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Germany, obviously the United States,
Canada that come down here just for the Byanchy Cup,
and it's been going strong.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
It's never been anywhere else.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
It's always been at that range that used to be
the Chapman Academy, but now it's called Green Valley Rifle
and Pistol Club in Hallsville, Missouri and Steve.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
This is happening next week. It is actually a really
good spectator event. If people want to go and watch,
they can see the best shooters in the world shooting there.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
They'll they'll have bleachers and one of the more popular
events is is the plates, the falling plates, which is
usually the easiest, but it's also the hardest because the
plate is an eight inch steel plate.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
There's either a ten or a zero.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
There is no opportunity to score an eight or a
five on the platereck. So the shooting portion of the
plate wreck is one of the easier events, but it
makes it the hardest because it's it's it's a ten
or it's zero. So that puts the pressure on everybody
to shoot the plate wreck. And some people might say
the mover's really hard, which it is the hardest moving
(06:46):
at ten feet a second. So there's lots of really
hard challenges.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I So, all right, Steve, let me switch a second
here because you've recently made a little change in your
professional world and you're actually working with the c P,
the Civilian Marksmanship Program. Now, if you would kind of
give the quick overview of CMP and not only where
the funding comes from, but the opportunity that is for
shooters who are interested in cool guns.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Yes, so the Civilian Marksmanship Program real briefly, Tom and
some of the listeners that don't know it was started
as a Congressional mandate and it started with it used
to be called the Department of Civilian Marksmanship.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
The DCM, and it changed in the nineties ninety six.
I believe to the.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Civilian Marksmanship Program. We're a five one three siaster. We're
a nonprofit. Wholly one hundred percent of our funding comes
from the sale of surtplus military firearms such as the
M one grand, as everybody knows, and now the nineteen elevens,
the surplus nineteen elevens.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Are being sold.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
If you go to our website, it's the CMP dot
org and there's all kinds of information And I encourage
everybody if you don't have an M one grand from
the CMP, you need one.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
But also this MP does other things.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
They have a scholarship foundation for people youth, high school
kids that are shooters.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
All right, So just some people understand, you can buy
you individuals. Anybody who can illegally own a gun can
buy a US government surplus in one grand or a
nineteen eleven forty five automatic pistol through the CMP.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Right exactly exactly, So I'll give out a little bit
about my age, Tom.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
When I got out of the Marines in nineteen eighty
eight and I was shooting at Mesa, Arizona, I thought
I'm gonna buy me at and one grand.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
This was the Department of civilian marsmanship at that time.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
They were one hundred and sixty five dollars in the
late eighty and now they're upwards of eight hundred to
one thousand dollars for the base models. Obviously inflation and
all that sort of thing, but it's still a great deal.
There's some paperwork you have to fill out, real simple,
and you send it into the CMP and then when.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You're ready, you've created a number. They've created your membership.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Basically don't cost anything within the MP and all you
need is your number and they will send the grand
directly to your house. So basically the background checks are
done on their end. Handguns still that the nineteen eleven
still have to go through an FFL dealer, but it
spells out how to do that on the website, and
there's actually auctions they'll auction off, which was new to me.
(09:21):
They'll auction off very good condition, the high grade.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Right, yes, so you're actually getting a grand that you
can shoot that's also a legitimate piece of history.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Absolutely, and the armorers go through them tom So what
happens is is they go through to make sure the
guns are stafe, they check the heads, faith, they make
sure the barrels are in decent condition. They actually sell
one now that it's a referve, comes with a new
barrel and a new stock, but everything else is still
surplus military GI parts.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It is very cool. VCNP dot Org. Very good, Steve.
I appreciate you taking some time. I know that I
caught you at the campground at the range. You're about
to go out. There's probably shooting going on behind you
right now.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Well, Tom, thanks for having me, and I'm getting ready
to practice.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
The guys here say hey, we can start at eight,
but I think I'm the only one here right now,
and I'm just gonna load to magazines and start practicing.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It's time to fling bullets down range again, my friend,
absolutely absolutely, well, good luck at Yankee.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
All right, Tom, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
All right, take care, all right, don't go far. Good talk,
will be right back.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
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(10:55):
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Speaker 6 (11:05):
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(11:29):
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Speaker 7 (11:34):
What do you use your AR fifteen for? Are you
plinking or hunting? Perhaps it's utilized for personal defense. At
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(11:54):
To learn more, go to Rangereadystudios dot com to learn
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Speaker 2 (12:04):
When someone leaves you their gun collection, you may want
a few, but what do you do with the rest?
How do you sell them? Who do you call? Well?
I call Johnny Durry at Durry's Guns. Whether you're selling
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(12:26):
I trust Durry's Guns. Give them a call Dury'sguns dot Com.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
Tom Gresham, a salute to you, because when you do
gun talk, you are fatting the flames of Second Amendment absolutism.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
That's what's celebrating new guns.
Speaker 8 (12:50):
In New AVO and time at the range and self
defense and tactical training.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
That's what Tom Gresham represents.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Nude shows up. I appreciate that dead. I've heard a
couple of people say that they gun sales are down
this year. People are holding off for any number of reasons.
The concerned with the economy, tariffts, et cetera, et cetera,
or maybe the Trump's in and they don't feel as
worried about somebody trying to take guns. Whatever. Question for
(13:22):
you though, If you're not buying a new gun, will
you be accessorizing what you do have? New scopes, new
red dots, new compensators, new lights, whatever. Are there items
that you would like to get to add to your
(13:43):
guns or change out if you will, just wonder what
you're shopping for. Okay, this is weird. Is this? Yeah?
A study? I love this because these studies come out
and there's brilliant. This one, of course, is brought to
(14:03):
you by the Trace. You know, that phony pr news
organization that was created by the gun band lobby. Gun
violence linked to surprising side effect, poor dental health. You
(14:24):
could not make this up. Researchers are now saying that
areas that have high rates of quote gun violence, where
in those areas residents are less likely to receive dental care.
Since fortunately the researchers had to call an answer for that,
(14:44):
a pervasive sense of fear, chronic stress, and social and
economic disruption brought on by firearm violence could potentially contribute
to adverse health behaviors, including poor oral health. Perhaps putting
(15:08):
aside the idea that maybe some local income areas or
areas that are very distressed have higher crime rates and
also have poor health habits, maybe it's not cause and
effect like you think it is, because honestly, it would
(15:29):
be difficult to understand how more crime with guns results
in poor dental health. When you look at England, a
country that historically has poor dental health, and at least
over the last several decades, not much in the way
of a lot of guns in England. So just saying
(15:54):
on this week where we have Pam Bondi, the US
Attorney General saying that the Department of Justice believes that
the Second Amendment is not a second class right. There's
a quote. It's a little bit long, and I hope
you'll stay with me on this one because it is worthwhile.
It makes some people nervous when you talk about the
(16:16):
Second Amendment being a bulwark against government tyranny the US government.
Here's a quote from Judge Kazinski, Ninth Circuit judge in
the Silveria I believe it is Silveria versus Lockyer case.
(16:38):
He said, the prospect of tyranny may not grab the
headlines the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do,
but few saw the Third Reich coming until it was
too late. The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one
design for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all of the
(17:01):
rights have failed, where the government refuses to stand for
re election and silences those who protest, where courts have
lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one
to enforce their decrees. However improbable, these contingencies may seem today,
(17:21):
facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get
to make only once, he continues. Fortunately, the Framers were
wise enough to entrench the right of the people to
keep and bear arms within our constitutional structure. The purpose
and importance of that right was still fresh in their minds,
(17:45):
and they spelled it out clearly, so it would not
be forgotten the point he is making. And it's excellent
for those to say, well, you know, the Second Amendment
guarantees the right of the government to have of the
National Guard, guarantees the right of the government to have malicias. No.
(18:06):
Remember when it was written, we had just come out
of this revolutionary war. We fought a war against an
oppressive strong central government, and we were coming up with
a brand new form of government, the constitutional republic, representative republic.
(18:28):
It is inconceivable that the people who had just fought
this bloody war against England, against the strong central government
would turn around and say, we want to guarantee that
only a strong central government has guns, and we the
people will be utterly defenseless and subject to the whims
(18:53):
and decrees of a strong central government. That makes no
sense that they would do that. And so this modern
interpretation that the Second Amendment guarantees the right. Oh no,
that's right. They don't say that. They say it grants,
(19:13):
which is of course wrong. It grants the right to
the government that the government has a monopoly on force,
because that's what they're saying. They're saying only the government
should have the right to use force against people. In
point of fact, the Second Amendment is there so that
(19:33):
we can stop the government. That's what it was written for. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I know. It makes people crazy when you say that,
makes them nervous, makes them a little bit we wary.
You don't really want to say that out loud, ty,
Yeah I do. Yeah, actually I do. The Second Amendment, yes,
it guarantees are right, not grants, Okay, guarantees. What's the
(19:54):
difference between the two. Well, if it grants the right,
then that can be withheld. If it grants the right,
it means it didn't pre exist. But if it guarantees
the right, what it's saying is this right exists before
the foundation of the government. We're gonna lay out ten
things here that we're gonna tell the government to keep
his hands off of the We're gonna call them a
bill of rights. These things, these ten things are rights
(20:17):
we already have and you the government has to keep
your cut and picking hands off of these things. Okay,
So that's what that's about, and what it's really saying is, yeah,
it's for self defense, and it's for all the other
things you use a gun for all the legal, lawful
things you can use. But primarily the thing that people
don't want to talk about, primarily the Second Amendment is
(20:40):
there so that the people can stop a tyrannical US government. Hmm, well,
why do I bring that up today? Because the government
under Pambondi just said that forced reset triggers are legal.
A forced reset trigger. By the way, if you go
to or breed triggers dot com, make sure it's dot
(21:04):
com because there are some fake websites out there. Tomorrow
they're going to open the website back up and it's
gonna be a madhouse. People are ordering these things. You
have a trigger that basically is going to make your
ar shoot a lot faster. Doesn't make it doesn't make
it a machine gun, but it doesn't make it shoot faster.
Why would you need something like that? Why would you
want something like that? Facing a tyrannical government. Should the
(21:29):
government have monopoly on firearms like that? And for people
to say, well, you know, the only reason for those
is to kill a lot of people, So the government
should be able to kill a lot of people. Is
that what you're saying, Well, that's not really what yeah,
it is. Actually it is what you're saying. You're saying
that we want the government to have a monopoly on
(21:50):
the ability to kill a lot of people using these tools. Yes,
I get it. People are getting squirmy in their seats
right now. I don't like that idea, Tom. I don't
like the idea of overthrowing the government. I don't want
to overthrow the government, and that's not what it's about.
But if you get a repressive government, it's completely out
(22:11):
of control. This is the last stop to protect us
at our country, all right, back, Yeah, he's six to
six talk gun. Yeah, just as I predicted it. His
started the uh folks on the webb saying that you
know by me interviewing Brandon Maddox from Silence or Central
(22:31):
Now I'm an apologist. Okay, fine, I knew it was
coming here and goes there you go if you want
to join that conversation. I'm participating over on X also
known formerly as Twitter. I'm at gun talk over there.
That's the name we use because you have to do
it that way at gun talk on X. Go take
(22:53):
a look. Maybe you can join in the conversation. It's
kind of fun to watch people twisting themselves in knots
on this deal. Let's go Line one. Elton is with
us out of Arkansas. Hey, Elton, you're on gun Talk.
You found some of this AMMO for us?
Speaker 9 (23:06):
Yes, I did. But people must remember that the Magna
Carter was immediately abandoned by a strong central government.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Uh huh yeah, good point, good.
Speaker 9 (23:20):
Point, all right. But anyway from the ARX AMMO, I
know one of the guys that owns the company. Okay, okay,
all right, And if people want to get hold of
this fella, his name is Tim Dunn, and they have
this by the Paletts in three eighty thirty eight special
(23:43):
nine millimeters forty five ACP and Tim's number is area
Wait you hold no, no, no, do not.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Give out a number. Okay, Oh we'll do that, all right, Yeah, no,
I don't want to do that to poor old Tim. Okay,
all right, Okay, there is there a website.
Speaker 9 (24:03):
Uh, he can go on Facebook, or anyone can go
on Facebook to done du in in deals.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Okay, du in the end like Tim done done deals.
Speaker 9 (24:18):
That's correct.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Okay, Yeah, I just a little bit worried. I would
hate to give out somebody's phone number and they we
hammer them, or God forbid, we make a mistake and
give somebody else's number out and screw that thing up.
So but I appreciate. Have you shot the.
Speaker 9 (24:35):
Smouh thousands of rounds? What do you think in all
the calibers it works really, really well. There are some
websites that feature the AMO. Some of them do a
good job, most of them do a very poor job.
All right, good penetration, extremely highvelocity in those things and
(25:02):
disperses a lot of energy very quickly because of the
pedals on this thing, and it creates a really big
temporary cavity. Shoots a really light bullet made of a
compositive composite of a proprietary polymer infused with copper.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, I have shot some of it. We've shot some
into ballistic jelatine, very lightweight bullets, so you end up
with real high velocity. You get almost the same penetration.
It's a little bit shorter, but for a lot of people,
that's kind of what they're looking for in their self
defense AMMO as well. Pretty interesting. Okay, Well, I didn't
know what had happened to the company, so that's good
(25:46):
to know, ARX because I know Ruger had it for
a while, poly Case had it for a while, So
that's good. No, Tim Dunn done deal. We'll look for
it that way. Hey, I appreciate the input on that,
and I'm glad we're able to stop before we gave
out somebody's phone number. Gotta be careful about that are
out here. Okay. Uh So, thinking about self defense, AMMO,
(26:12):
do you and I'm serious, I'd love to know do
you ever shoot your self defense AMMO? At the range?
Do you do? Or do you do like most people do?
All you're shooting with practice demo range AMMO, full mental
jacket AMMO? And what's your protocol if you say, okay,
(26:32):
I'm going to carry this Amo, do you put a
magazine's worth through your gun to make sure it runs?
Do you shoot a box worth? Do you check it
to see where it shoots? Because it may shoot to
a completely different point of impact. Than the practice AMO
you're using. Does it matter at three yards? Probably not.
(26:54):
Does it matter at seven or fifteen yards? Yeah I could.
Maybe it's not very far off, but maybe it's enough
if you had to make a headshot. The other issue,
and this is really the more important one, is does
your gun function utterly reliably with your carry ammo? Also,
(27:22):
and I get it, ammo's expensive, and good self defense
AMMO is expensive. Do you switch back and forth or
try different kinds or just basically pick up whatever's available
and put that in your gun and call it good.
It's kind of curious about how you go about choosing
the AMMO for your parachute. But what what do you
(27:46):
say parachute? Remember that thing you're carrying, or that gun
you've got at home for self defense. The only reason
you're going to use that in self defense, it's because
somebody is trying to hurt you badly or kill you.
You use that gun as a last effort, the final,
if you will, solution on saving your life. It's the
(28:09):
last line of defense. It's the parachute. Planes on fire,
it's going down. You got to get out. Parachutes only
thing is going to save you. There you are if
you think about that, it also helps you maybe not
be so quick to pull your gun out or to
insert yourself into a situation. But I'm just curious on
(28:32):
the AMMO question. Have you checked your defensive ammo? How
does it shoot in your gun? Did you see any
differences between your practice ammo and your carry ammo. Love
to get your range reports on that. Our number is
eight six six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun Gun
Talk will be right back.
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Speaker 11 (30:02):
There's more to this world of guns than you realize.
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firearm related topics. Whether it's new guns, training tips, gunsmithing, competition, shooting,
self defense, or gun rights news, we cover it all.
(30:24):
Visit gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
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Speaker 13 (31:04):
All right back with you here, open lines right now
so if you want to join us, if you've got
a gun you want to tell us about, or a
shooting experience.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
By all means. We've got a buddy who actually and
I don't certainly certainly don't do this for money. But
I loaded his hunting AMMO for him, and he brought
me some brass. He said, do you to get some
more done for this year? And it was kind of interesting.
I'm loading seven mags seven milimeter Remington Magnum and we've
(31:45):
settled on one hundred and sixty grain bullet for him
for his rifle. It shoots really well in the process
of and I guess we all do this, whether we're
looking at factory AMO, factory loaded AMMO, or loading it ourselves.
We can get really caught up with this versus that
(32:06):
it's a game we play. It's kind of fun. I
do it. I do it all the time. You know,
one hundred and forty grain bullet versus one fifty grain
bullet versus one sixty grain bullet. And in the end
it often just doesn't matter much. What is it? I
say a lot. We often worry about the wrong things
(32:30):
in all things in life. Unfortunately, if we're trying to
figure out which is better nine milimeters versus forty five
versus three eighty Okay, I don't care forty I don't care.
If you're talking about self defense, that's really the smallest
part of the equation. I know, it's the fun thing
to argue about, to think about. It also allows you
(32:51):
to buy stuff, and that's kind of fun. I like that.
But the reality is how good are you, how competent
are you? And I don't care if you're talking about hunting,
hitting the target, hitting the bird, hitting the deer, or
whatever it is, or self defense not just hitting the
(33:14):
target but also not hitting the wrong target. You know,
every time you pull a trigger, bullet comes out and
goes somewhere, and you're responsible for wherever it goes until
it stops moving. You're responsible for that bullet. So the
(33:36):
gun you're using isn't that big a deal in that
the ammal you're using isn't that big of a deal.
In that you're training, your practice, your competence, your focus,
your study, your homework. That's what's important. And what do
(33:57):
I mean by homework? Reading about or watching videos on
self defense shootings, learning what works what doesn't, seeing what
other people have done where they make mistakes. I often
equate a lot of this to my background in aviation
(34:17):
clilts and it's not morbid, but we love to read
about study aircraft accidents. What happened, what went wrong? What
can we learn from it? And we're weirdly obsessive about this.
And it's not that we delight in the details of
(34:37):
a crash, it's I want to know, how did this happen?
And if I were in that situation, what would I
have done differently? How can I make sure I don't
make that mistake? Now, look, I understand we can't make
sure one hundred percent guarantee we're not going to make
a mistake. All we can do is try to be better,
(35:00):
to reduce risk and try to increase our chances of success.
And what's that going to involve in a self defense situation.
A lot of that is increasing our situation situational awareness
in terms of can I recognize what's going on, Because
if you can see it far enough in advance, you
(35:21):
can avoid it, you can get out of there, you
can go to some other place, you can cross the street,
you can drive some other place. If it's coming into
the rest of where you are you could escape out
the exit or go out through the kitchen, but in
order for that to happen, you have to have your
head up and be looking around and recognizing the situation.
(35:46):
It doesn't mean you're paranoid. It just means you are observant,
you're paying attention. You walk into a place, where are
the exits? Where will we go if we need to go? Okay,
that took what three seconds? Big deal? Okay, you've done that.
Now you're just occasionally looking around see what's going on?
(36:08):
Is there anything unusual happening anywhere? Generally it's not, But
one of the things you want to do is kind
of get a baseline when you go into place. What's
the vibe, what's the field, what's the sound level, what's
the activity? What are people doing? That way, you're attuned
to what's going on around you, and if something changes,
you will notice it, because if you've not done anything
(36:29):
like that, you won't even notice when there's a change
something on that part of the room changes, it gets quieter.
What's going on? Is our robbery in place? Is there
something happening? Do I need to gather my people, my family,
my friends and say o, hey, everybody stand up right now.
We're going to go out that exit right now. And
(36:51):
if you're doing it right, you should not have to
explain to your family. They should know not to say,
what are you talking about? I have to finish of
my dessert or you're crazy. No, we've had that discussion before.
If I say, pick a number or a letter rather
a word, you're going to have your emergency word. It
(37:13):
can be geronimo or chrysanthemum, whatever you want to be
something you don't generally use. And you say, all right, geronimo,
it's time for us to leave. Everybody knows that's it.
Put down whatever you're doing, stand up, follow me. We're
leaving right now, not in thirty seconds. Right now, we're
going to go out the back door. Follow me. Whatever
(37:37):
you know. They say the best gunfight is the one
you don't get in, and the best way to win
a gun fight is to not get into one in
the first place, and I certainly would agree with that.
That makes all the sense in the world. You have
to figure out what your level of commitment is to this,
(37:57):
and I'm not saying that you have to be a
ninja or a warrior or anything like that. I'm just
thinking that most people would benefit from getting their head
out of their phone, because if you're walking across the
parking lot staring at your phone, you're not seeing everything
that's going on around you. You're what do we say,
(38:19):
if you look like food, you're going to be eating. Yeah,
you're making yourself an easy target. You know, you're the
slow antelope at the back of the pack that the
wolves are going to come come after or the lions
are going to get So just thinking about it a
little bit and all it takes is a little bit
studying about it, thinking about it at home, situational awareness, yeah,
(38:40):
all of that, and then getting wheel training, learning to
draw from concealment, learning to shoot, learning to move, learning
how to go through a house. Yeah, it can be involved,
but it can also be fun. I would encourage you
to make a commitment to do that. Eight six' six
talk gun right. Now it would be a great time
(39:09):
for you to call and get into the after show
where we have a little bit more time to knock
around some ideas and call me It tom talk gun right.
Now we'll put you into the after show along those,
lines just a quick explanation of how everything works around.
Here some people think of this as a, podcast and it,
is and others think of his radio, show and it.
(39:31):
Is here's what we. Do we put this out as
a radio. Show it is live now going out coast
to coast all over the country on hundreds of radio.
Stations after we do the live, show we archive all
of this and then we put it back up as a,
podcast and then we add to it a part that
doesn't go out to the radio. Stations we call that
(39:52):
the after. Show it's a little bonus or In Louisiana,
talk it's lend. Yapp we add to what you. Get
so if you go to where actually wherever you get, Podcasts, Spotify,
YouTube you, know, iTunes anywhere you get, podcasts you can
find Gun. Talk of, course we have other podcasts we
do as well that the guys down In louisiana. Do
(40:12):
so that's how it all. Works, okay here a little
behind the. Scenes the magic of it, Is i'm setting
In idaho And i'm connected right now To jim and
his fabulous studio In, Toledo ohio through the magic of
The internet and some really, cool very professional high end.
Gear and then he takes all of this and takes
your calls and mixes it all, together and then he
sends it To, denver and then In denver they take
(40:36):
it and mix it together and shoot it up to,
satellites and it goes up to, satellites and then they
lose satellites send it back down to the radio, stations
and all this is happening in real, time and then
the radio stations shoot it, out of course over the
regular radio. Waves we could pick it up in your
car or. Wherever they also live stream it all over the.
Place if you want to find the stations that do,
(40:57):
that you go to gun talk dot com and look
under gun Talk radio and we have a list of
all these hundreds of stations that carry it live or
sometimes they'll tape delay. It so that's kind of the
behind the scenes thing and how it. Works it is to,
me it's amazing doing this for thirty, years how it
all has, changed and how you can do it from,
anywhere and the power and the amazing flexibility if you,
(41:21):
will of The. Internet SO i, mean there you. Go
that's how gun talk comes to. YOU i am more
behind the. SCENES i spend a lot of the week
doing the research for, this lining up the, guests maybe
doing the interviews kind of like The silence Or Central
deal that took several days to pull that. Together, again
(41:42):
this is the only place they've done in an interview
on this. Controversy and, YES i get people are saying,
yeah but they said, This, well back. Up how do
you know they said? Something you read it on the? Internet? Right? Huh?
Please you know better to than to believe what you
see on the. Internet BUT i saw this thing and they.
(42:05):
Posted their lobbyists said. Yes their lobbyists said they're going
to be to develop and support suppressor tax conservation. LEGISLATION
a lot of people have looked at that and, said,
oh they want to conserve and guarantee that we have
attacked on. Suppressors H, no this is to get the,
(42:26):
funds at least according to What Brandon maddox, said to
take the funds that two hundred dollars you pay and
rather than just give it to the federal government to
use any where they want, to he, said let's put
that into The Pittman robertson funds and that money is
used for habitat restoration and to build shooting. Ranges so
that's develop and support suppressor tax stamp conservation legislation not
(42:52):
what you've been told it, was and join me over
on x formerly known As. Twitter i'm at gun talk over.
There you can call me right now At Tom Talk
gun and we'll get you into the after. Show and of,
course by all, means if you don't agree with, me
call me in tell me. Why you, know have the
guts to stand up and tell. ME i will listen
and we'll discuss. It there you. Go in the, meantime
(43:14):
buy a new, gun buy, accessories go out and buy some.
Ammo it's cheap these, days by the, way ammo, is
and shoot a. Lot the more you, shoot the better you.
Get oh, yeah it's also. Fun, hey thanks for being.
Here what's see you next. Week
The Ruger Sfaar is one of the trim is threeh
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. Tom Gresham here if
you want to join us the course, same deal, Tom
talkgun That is the phone number here. Okay, there's an
event coming up well just in days right now. It
is one of the bigger, smaller, most important, strange shooting
events that you may or may not have heard of,
but it's important in the shooting world. People know all
(00:32):
about it. Well, I was able to grab a friend
of ours, Steve Horseman, is actually on his way to
the b Yankee Cup. But Steve, you're doing a little
quick stop before you get there.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yes, Tom, I stopped.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
There's a range outside of Kansas City called the Pineer
Gun Club and they actually do a match kind of
like we considered a warm up match to the Yankee Cup,
which takes place next week in Hallsville, Missouri, basically at
the town just outside of Columbia, Missouri.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Let's the background on a banke cut because I mean
everybody talks about it. I've been there and from the outside.
Look I am. When you're watching, you're thinking, well, what's
so hard about this? And all the competitors and the
top competitors are there, they all go, no, no, no, you
don't understand. This is hard.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yes, it is really hard.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
When I first started doing this, I guess it was
two thousand and four, two thousand and five, my good
friend Rob Lason talking me into doing this.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
And I was shooting iron sights.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Back then, I could still see iron sights and it
was incredibly humbling. I originally went because I wanted to
become a better USPSA shooter.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And I just wasn't very accurate.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Well, since I've gotten older, I've moved onto the open category,
which is basically, can do whatever you.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Want to the gun there.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
The one destriction is it can't trigger, can't be less
than two pounds, and that's about it.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
But first of all, we ought to say you should
know better than to get into anything that Rob Latham
tries to direct you into.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Right, you're absolutely right, and then he's like a crack dealer.
He got me into this, and then he stops showing up.
I give him a hard time all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, exactly, there you go, all right, So you get there,
you start shooting this thing. You go, holy moly, these
things are hard to hit.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
It's really hard.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
And even with the open guns, which but the open
gun you could have one hundred and ninety.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
One perfect shots and you fire one by a shot
and your match.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Is over right exactly. And for people ought to go
to look at it on YouTube or other places. I mean,
it's very interesting. You have different matches. You got movers
that you're shooting, you're shooting from you know, plot, you draw,
PLoP down on the ground, shooting prone position. You got
different kinds. But it is this is an accuracy match,
isn't it?
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Well, you know, Tom, it is. But how funny thing is.
I got to give credit to our good buddy Rob.
He told me several years ago. He goes, you know,
it's actually a speed event And I said, how could
that be? And he said, because the requirements of the
shot and the time that you have make it a
speed event.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Because the accuracy requirements is so hard.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
For example, on the practical event, that's just two targets
and you shoot it at ten, fifteen, twenty five and
fifty yards, well at let's say twenty five yards For example,
you have to draw and fire one shot at each
of the two targets.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
The first string of fire is five seconds.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Well, you don't think that's very that's not too fast, right,
And then the second string is two shots on each
target in six seconds, and then the third string is
three shots on each target in six seconds.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Eh.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Okay, Well, most of the.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Open shooters, like myself, we're going prone to fire those
shots because we're trying to shoot at a four inch
circle on the targets.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
That's the X ring.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Okay, So now you're drawing and having to draw your standing,
you draw, you got to get down on the ground
and fire your shots in six seconds.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Correct, correct, And every string of fire in this entire
event you start with your.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Wrists above your shoulders. Oh man, surrender position kind of thing, right.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
We ought to tell people your background. You were a marine,
you are a cop. You're a professional shooter for Springfield.
You've been in the industry, you've been a shooter for
a long time. You shot all the different events, and
yet you keep going back to the b Yankee Cup.
What's so special about it?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
It's the match itself, but it's also the friendships that
you make and it's really a test of your shooting
skill because it all really boils down to your ability
to fire an actor's shot, and that's that's the challenge
of it.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
And Doug Kanigg and Bridge Pi, they've.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Those two guys have won the match between them like
thirty some times, and they still come and they still
get nervous. That's part of the part of it too,
and it's just the hintry of the match. For example,
the match was started in nineteen seventy nine by gentleman
named Ray Chapman and John k Yankee. John Yankee owned
the Yankee Gun leather and they wanted to create a match.
(04:44):
Ray Chapman had the Chapman Academy in Hallsville, the three
Well that's where they built the b Yankee Cup. At
that time, there were no other places in the country
to shoot it.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Because of the events you had turning targets.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
You had a moving target, which no other ranges really had,
so that was kind of the draw. People would come
to this and it was the only time that they
would ever get a chance to shoot a moving target.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
And the moving target example is.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
A sixty foot opening and it moves ten feet a second.
It starts off on the right, moves to the left,
and then it stops, and then you reload and then
you do it again. But since then, obviously it's been
forty five, forty seven years. Whatever other places have it,
other ranges have these these taking it up upon themselves
because there is At the height of the popularity of
(05:31):
the Cup, there was three hundred plus shooters and we're
getting shooters from all over the country. We're getting shooters
from Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Germany, obviously the United States,
Canada that come down here just for the Byanchy Cup,
and it's been going strong.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
It's never been anywhere else.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
It's always been at that range that used to be
the Chapman Academy, but now it's called Green Valley Rifle
and Pistol Club in Hallsville, Missouri and Steve.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
This is happening next week. It is actually a really
good spectator event. If people want to go and watch,
they can see the best shooters in the world shooting there.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
They'll they'll have bleachers and one of the more popular
events is is the plates, the falling plates, which is
usually the easiest, but it's also the hardest because the
plate is an eight inch steel plate.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
There's either a ten or a zero.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
There is no opportunity to score an eight or a
five on the platereck. So the shooting portion of the
plate wreck is one of the easier events, but it
makes it the hardest because it's it's it's a ten
or it's zero. So that puts the pressure on everybody
to shoot the plate wreck. And some people might say
the mover's really hard, which it is the hardest moving
(06:46):
at ten feet a second. So there's lots of really
hard challenges.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I So, all right, Steve, let me switch a second
here because you've recently made a little change in your
professional world and you're actually working with the c P,
the Civilian Marksmanship Program. Now, if you would kind of
give the quick overview of CMP and not only where
the funding comes from, but the opportunity that is for
shooters who are interested in cool guns.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Yes, so the Civilian Marksmanship Program real briefly, Tom and
some of the listeners that don't know it was started
as a Congressional mandate and it started with it used
to be called the Department of Civilian Marksmanship.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
The DCM, and it changed in the nineties ninety six.
I believe to the.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Civilian Marksmanship Program. We're a five one three siaster. We're
a nonprofit. Wholly one hundred percent of our funding comes
from the sale of surtplus military firearms such as the
M one grand, as everybody knows, and now the nineteen elevens,
the surplus nineteen elevens.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Are being sold.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
If you go to our website, it's the CMP dot
org and there's all kinds of information And I encourage
everybody if you don't have an M one grand from
the CMP, you need one.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
But also this MP does other things.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
They have a scholarship foundation for people youth, high school
kids that are shooters.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
All right, So just some people understand, you can buy
you individuals. Anybody who can illegally own a gun can
buy a US government surplus in one grand or a
nineteen eleven forty five automatic pistol through the CMP.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Right exactly exactly, So I'll give out a little bit
about my age, Tom.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
When I got out of the Marines in nineteen eighty
eight and I was shooting at Mesa, Arizona, I thought
I'm gonna buy me at and one grand.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
This was the Department of civilian marsmanship at that time.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
They were one hundred and sixty five dollars in the
late eighty and now they're upwards of eight hundred to
one thousand dollars for the base models. Obviously inflation and
all that sort of thing, but it's still a great deal.
There's some paperwork you have to fill out, real simple,
and you send it into the CMP and then when.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You're ready, you've created a number. They've created your membership.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Basically don't cost anything within the MP and all you
need is your number and they will send the grand
directly to your house. So basically the background checks are
done on their end. Handguns still that the nineteen eleven
still have to go through an FFL dealer, but it
spells out how to do that on the website, and
there's actually auctions they'll auction off, which was new to me.
(09:21):
They'll auction off very good condition, the high grade.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Right, yes, so you're actually getting a grand that you
can shoot that's also a legitimate piece of history.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Absolutely, and the armorers go through them tom So what
happens is is they go through to make sure the
guns are stafe, they check the heads, faith, they make
sure the barrels are in decent condition. They actually sell
one now that it's a referve, comes with a new
barrel and a new stock, but everything else is still
surplus military GI parts.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It is very cool. VCNP dot Org. Very good, Steve.
I appreciate you taking some time. I know that I
caught you at the campground at the range. You're about
to go out. There's probably shooting going on behind you
right now.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Well, Tom, thanks for having me, and I'm getting ready
to practice.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
The guys here say hey, we can start at eight,
but I think I'm the only one here right now,
and I'm just gonna load to magazines and start practicing.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It's time to fling bullets down range again, my friend,
absolutely absolutely, well, good luck at Yankee.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
All right, Tom, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
All right, take care, all right, don't go far. Good talk,
will be right back.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
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Speaker 6 (11:05):
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(11:29):
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Speaker 7 (11:34):
What do you use your AR fifteen for? Are you
plinking or hunting? Perhaps it's utilized for personal defense. At
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You'll learn valuable drills to help you run the gun better.
(11:54):
To learn more, go to Rangereadystudios dot com to learn
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Speaker 2 (12:04):
When someone leaves you their gun collection, you may want
a few, but what do you do with the rest?
How do you sell them? Who do you call? Well?
I call Johnny Durry at Durry's Guns. Whether you're selling
one gun or five hundred. They'll tell you what it's
worth and write you a check, simple, quick, easy fair.
(12:26):
I trust Durry's Guns. Give them a call Dury'sguns dot Com.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
Tom Gresham, a salute to you, because when you do
gun talk, you are fatting the flames of Second Amendment absolutism.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
That's what's celebrating new guns.
Speaker 8 (12:50):
In New AVO and time at the range and self
defense and tactical training.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
That's what Tom Gresham represents.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Nude shows up. I appreciate that dead. I've heard a
couple of people say that they gun sales are down
this year. People are holding off for any number of reasons.
The concerned with the economy, tariffts, et cetera, et cetera,
or maybe the Trump's in and they don't feel as
worried about somebody trying to take guns. Whatever. Question for
(13:22):
you though, If you're not buying a new gun, will
you be accessorizing what you do have? New scopes, new
red dots, new compensators, new lights, whatever. Are there items
that you would like to get to add to your
(13:43):
guns or change out if you will, just wonder what
you're shopping for. Okay, this is weird. Is this? Yeah?
A study? I love this because these studies come out
and there's brilliant. This one, of course, is brought to
(14:03):
you by the Trace. You know, that phony pr news
organization that was created by the gun band lobby. Gun
violence linked to surprising side effect, poor dental health. You
(14:24):
could not make this up. Researchers are now saying that
areas that have high rates of quote gun violence, where
in those areas residents are less likely to receive dental care.
Since fortunately the researchers had to call an answer for that,
(14:44):
a pervasive sense of fear, chronic stress, and social and
economic disruption brought on by firearm violence could potentially contribute
to adverse health behaviors, including poor oral health. Perhaps putting
(15:08):
aside the idea that maybe some local income areas or
areas that are very distressed have higher crime rates and
also have poor health habits, maybe it's not cause and
effect like you think it is, because honestly, it would
(15:29):
be difficult to understand how more crime with guns results
in poor dental health. When you look at England, a
country that historically has poor dental health, and at least
over the last several decades, not much in the way
of a lot of guns in England. So just saying
(15:54):
on this week where we have Pam Bondi, the US
Attorney General saying that the Department of Justice believes that
the Second Amendment is not a second class right. There's
a quote. It's a little bit long, and I hope
you'll stay with me on this one because it is worthwhile.
It makes some people nervous when you talk about the
(16:16):
Second Amendment being a bulwark against government tyranny the US government.
Here's a quote from Judge Kazinski, Ninth Circuit judge in
the Silveria I believe it is Silveria versus Lockyer case.
(16:38):
He said, the prospect of tyranny may not grab the
headlines the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do,
but few saw the Third Reich coming until it was
too late. The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one
design for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all of the
(17:01):
rights have failed, where the government refuses to stand for
re election and silences those who protest, where courts have
lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one
to enforce their decrees. However improbable, these contingencies may seem today,
(17:21):
facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get
to make only once, he continues. Fortunately, the Framers were
wise enough to entrench the right of the people to
keep and bear arms within our constitutional structure. The purpose
and importance of that right was still fresh in their minds,
(17:45):
and they spelled it out clearly, so it would not
be forgotten the point he is making. And it's excellent
for those to say, well, you know, the Second Amendment
guarantees the right of the government to have of the
National Guard, guarantees the right of the government to have malicias. No.
(18:06):
Remember when it was written, we had just come out
of this revolutionary war. We fought a war against an
oppressive strong central government, and we were coming up with
a brand new form of government, the constitutional republic, representative republic.
(18:28):
It is inconceivable that the people who had just fought
this bloody war against England, against the strong central government
would turn around and say, we want to guarantee that
only a strong central government has guns, and we the
people will be utterly defenseless and subject to the whims
(18:53):
and decrees of a strong central government. That makes no
sense that they would do that. And so this modern
interpretation that the Second Amendment guarantees the right. Oh no,
that's right. They don't say that. They say it grants,
(19:13):
which is of course wrong. It grants the right to
the government that the government has a monopoly on force,
because that's what they're saying. They're saying only the government
should have the right to use force against people. In
point of fact, the Second Amendment is there so that
(19:33):
we can stop the government. That's what it was written for. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I know. It makes people crazy when you say that,
makes them nervous, makes them a little bit we wary.
You don't really want to say that out loud, ty,
Yeah I do. Yeah, actually I do. The Second Amendment, yes,
it guarantees are right, not grants, Okay, guarantees. What's the
(19:54):
difference between the two. Well, if it grants the right,
then that can be withheld. If it grants the right,
it means it didn't pre exist. But if it guarantees
the right, what it's saying is this right exists before
the foundation of the government. We're gonna lay out ten
things here that we're gonna tell the government to keep
his hands off of the We're gonna call them a
bill of rights. These things, these ten things are rights
(20:17):
we already have and you the government has to keep
your cut and picking hands off of these things. Okay,
So that's what that's about, and what it's really saying is, yeah,
it's for self defense, and it's for all the other
things you use a gun for all the legal, lawful
things you can use. But primarily the thing that people
don't want to talk about, primarily the Second Amendment is
(20:40):
there so that the people can stop a tyrannical US government. Hmm, well,
why do I bring that up today? Because the government
under Pambondi just said that forced reset triggers are legal.
A forced reset trigger. By the way, if you go
to or breed triggers dot com, make sure it's dot
(21:04):
com because there are some fake websites out there. Tomorrow
they're going to open the website back up and it's
gonna be a madhouse. People are ordering these things. You
have a trigger that basically is going to make your
ar shoot a lot faster. Doesn't make it doesn't make
it a machine gun, but it doesn't make it shoot faster.
Why would you need something like that? Why would you
want something like that? Facing a tyrannical government. Should the
(21:29):
government have monopoly on firearms like that? And for people
to say, well, you know, the only reason for those
is to kill a lot of people, So the government
should be able to kill a lot of people. Is
that what you're saying, Well, that's not really what yeah,
it is. Actually it is what you're saying. You're saying
that we want the government to have a monopoly on
(21:50):
the ability to kill a lot of people using these tools. Yes,
I get it. People are getting squirmy in their seats
right now. I don't like that idea, Tom. I don't
like the idea of overthrowing the government. I don't want
to overthrow the government, and that's not what it's about.
But if you get a repressive government, it's completely out
(22:11):
of control. This is the last stop to protect us
at our country, all right, back, Yeah, he's six to
six talk gun. Yeah, just as I predicted it. His
started the uh folks on the webb saying that you
know by me interviewing Brandon Maddox from Silence or Central
(22:31):
Now I'm an apologist. Okay, fine, I knew it was
coming here and goes there you go if you want
to join that conversation. I'm participating over on X also
known formerly as Twitter. I'm at gun talk over there.
That's the name we use because you have to do
it that way at gun talk on X. Go take
(22:53):
a look. Maybe you can join in the conversation. It's
kind of fun to watch people twisting themselves in knots
on this deal. Let's go Line one. Elton is with
us out of Arkansas. Hey, Elton, you're on gun Talk.
You found some of this AMMO for us?
Speaker 9 (23:06):
Yes, I did. But people must remember that the Magna
Carter was immediately abandoned by a strong central government.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Uh huh yeah, good point, good.
Speaker 9 (23:20):
Point, all right. But anyway from the ARX AMMO, I
know one of the guys that owns the company. Okay, okay,
all right, And if people want to get hold of
this fella, his name is Tim Dunn, and they have
this by the Paletts in three eighty thirty eight special
(23:43):
nine millimeters forty five ACP and Tim's number is area
Wait you hold no, no, no, do not.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Give out a number. Okay, Oh we'll do that, all right, Yeah, no,
I don't want to do that to poor old Tim. Okay,
all right, Okay, there is there a website.
Speaker 9 (24:03):
Uh, he can go on Facebook, or anyone can go
on Facebook to done du in in deals.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Okay, du in the end like Tim done done deals.
Speaker 9 (24:18):
That's correct.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Okay, Yeah, I just a little bit worried. I would
hate to give out somebody's phone number and they we
hammer them, or God forbid, we make a mistake and
give somebody else's number out and screw that thing up.
So but I appreciate. Have you shot the.
Speaker 9 (24:35):
Smouh thousands of rounds? What do you think in all
the calibers it works really, really well. There are some
websites that feature the AMO. Some of them do a
good job, most of them do a very poor job.
All right, good penetration, extremely highvelocity in those things and
(25:02):
disperses a lot of energy very quickly because of the
pedals on this thing, and it creates a really big
temporary cavity. Shoots a really light bullet made of a
compositive composite of a proprietary polymer infused with copper.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, I have shot some of it. We've shot some
into ballistic jelatine, very lightweight bullets, so you end up
with real high velocity. You get almost the same penetration.
It's a little bit shorter, but for a lot of people,
that's kind of what they're looking for in their self
defense AMMO as well. Pretty interesting. Okay, Well, I didn't
know what had happened to the company, so that's good
(25:46):
to know, ARX because I know Ruger had it for
a while, poly Case had it for a while, So
that's good. No, Tim Dunn done deal. We'll look for
it that way. Hey, I appreciate the input on that,
and I'm glad we're able to stop before we gave
out somebody's phone number. Gotta be careful about that are
out here. Okay. Uh So, thinking about self defense, AMMO,
(26:12):
do you and I'm serious, I'd love to know do
you ever shoot your self defense AMMO? At the range?
Do you do? Or do you do like most people do?
All you're shooting with practice demo range AMMO, full mental
jacket AMMO? And what's your protocol if you say, okay,
(26:32):
I'm going to carry this Amo, do you put a
magazine's worth through your gun to make sure it runs?
Do you shoot a box worth? Do you check it
to see where it shoots? Because it may shoot to
a completely different point of impact. Than the practice AMO
you're using. Does it matter at three yards? Probably not.
(26:54):
Does it matter at seven or fifteen yards? Yeah I could.
Maybe it's not very far off, but maybe it's enough
if you had to make a headshot. The other issue,
and this is really the more important one, is does
your gun function utterly reliably with your carry ammo? Also,
(27:22):
and I get it, ammo's expensive, and good self defense
AMMO is expensive. Do you switch back and forth or
try different kinds or just basically pick up whatever's available
and put that in your gun and call it good.
It's kind of curious about how you go about choosing
the AMMO for your parachute. But what what do you
(27:46):
say parachute? Remember that thing you're carrying, or that gun
you've got at home for self defense. The only reason
you're going to use that in self defense, it's because
somebody is trying to hurt you badly or kill you.
You use that gun as a last effort, the final,
if you will, solution on saving your life. It's the
(28:09):
last line of defense. It's the parachute. Planes on fire,
it's going down. You got to get out. Parachutes only
thing is going to save you. There you are if
you think about that, it also helps you maybe not
be so quick to pull your gun out or to
insert yourself into a situation. But I'm just curious on
(28:32):
the AMMO question. Have you checked your defensive ammo? How
does it shoot in your gun? Did you see any
differences between your practice ammo and your carry ammo. Love
to get your range reports on that. Our number is
eight six six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun Gun
Talk will be right back.
Speaker 10 (29:00):
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(29:22):
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with unmatched accuracy through the world's finest triggers, from both
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shop for your trigger needs. Find your new trigger at
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Speaker 11 (30:02):
There's more to this world of guns than you realize.
Your entry to our world is a clickaway. At gun
talk dot com. Stay informed and entertained on the latest
firearm related topics. Whether it's new guns, training tips, gunsmithing, competition, shooting,
self defense, or gun rights news, we cover it all.
(30:24):
Visit gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 12 (30:33):
It's a known fact that most violent crimes occur in
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Speaker 5 (30:58):
Go with a proven performer fire.
Speaker 13 (31:04):
All right back with you here, open lines right now
so if you want to join us, if you've got
a gun you want to tell us about, or a
shooting experience.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
By all means. We've got a buddy who actually and
I don't certainly certainly don't do this for money. But
I loaded his hunting AMMO for him, and he brought
me some brass. He said, do you to get some
more done for this year? And it was kind of interesting.
I'm loading seven mags seven milimeter Remington Magnum and we've
(31:45):
settled on one hundred and sixty grain bullet for him
for his rifle. It shoots really well in the process
of and I guess we all do this, whether we're
looking at factory AMO, factory loaded AMMO, or loading it ourselves.
We can get really caught up with this versus that
(32:06):
it's a game we play. It's kind of fun. I
do it. I do it all the time. You know,
one hundred and forty grain bullet versus one fifty grain
bullet versus one sixty grain bullet. And in the end
it often just doesn't matter much. What is it? I
say a lot. We often worry about the wrong things
(32:30):
in all things in life. Unfortunately, if we're trying to
figure out which is better nine milimeters versus forty five
versus three eighty Okay, I don't care forty I don't care.
If you're talking about self defense, that's really the smallest
part of the equation. I know, it's the fun thing
to argue about, to think about. It also allows you
(32:51):
to buy stuff, and that's kind of fun. I like that.
But the reality is how good are you, how competent
are you? And I don't care if you're talking about hunting,
hitting the target, hitting the bird, hitting the deer, or
whatever it is, or self defense not just hitting the
(33:14):
target but also not hitting the wrong target. You know,
every time you pull a trigger, bullet comes out and
goes somewhere, and you're responsible for wherever it goes until
it stops moving. You're responsible for that bullet. So the
(33:36):
gun you're using isn't that big a deal in that
the ammal you're using isn't that big of a deal.
In that you're training, your practice, your competence, your focus,
your study, your homework. That's what's important. And what do
(33:57):
I mean by homework? Reading about or watching videos on
self defense shootings, learning what works what doesn't, seeing what
other people have done where they make mistakes. I often
equate a lot of this to my background in aviation
(34:17):
clilts and it's not morbid, but we love to read
about study aircraft accidents. What happened, what went wrong? What
can we learn from it? And we're weirdly obsessive about this.
And it's not that we delight in the details of
(34:37):
a crash, it's I want to know, how did this happen?
And if I were in that situation, what would I
have done differently? How can I make sure I don't
make that mistake? Now, look, I understand we can't make
sure one hundred percent guarantee we're not going to make
a mistake. All we can do is try to be better,
(35:00):
to reduce risk and try to increase our chances of success.
And what's that going to involve in a self defense situation.
A lot of that is increasing our situation situational awareness
in terms of can I recognize what's going on, Because
if you can see it far enough in advance, you
(35:21):
can avoid it, you can get out of there, you
can go to some other place, you can cross the street,
you can drive some other place. If it's coming into
the rest of where you are you could escape out
the exit or go out through the kitchen, but in
order for that to happen, you have to have your
head up and be looking around and recognizing the situation.
(35:46):
It doesn't mean you're paranoid. It just means you are observant,
you're paying attention. You walk into a place, where are
the exits? Where will we go if we need to go? Okay,
that took what three seconds? Big deal? Okay, you've done that.
Now you're just occasionally looking around see what's going on?
(36:08):
Is there anything unusual happening anywhere? Generally it's not, But
one of the things you want to do is kind
of get a baseline when you go into place. What's
the vibe, what's the field, what's the sound level, what's
the activity? What are people doing? That way, you're attuned
to what's going on around you, and if something changes,
you will notice it, because if you've not done anything
(36:29):
like that, you won't even notice when there's a change
something on that part of the room changes, it gets quieter.
What's going on? Is our robbery in place? Is there
something happening? Do I need to gather my people, my family,
my friends and say o, hey, everybody stand up right now.
We're going to go out that exit right now. And
(36:51):
if you're doing it right, you should not have to
explain to your family. They should know not to say,
what are you talking about? I have to finish of
my dessert or you're crazy. No, we've had that discussion before.
If I say, pick a number or a letter rather
a word, you're going to have your emergency word. It
(37:13):
can be geronimo or chrysanthemum, whatever you want to be
something you don't generally use. And you say, all right, geronimo,
it's time for us to leave. Everybody knows that's it.
Put down whatever you're doing, stand up, follow me. We're
leaving right now, not in thirty seconds. Right now, we're
going to go out the back door. Follow me. Whatever
(37:37):
you know. They say the best gunfight is the one
you don't get in, and the best way to win
a gun fight is to not get into one in
the first place, and I certainly would agree with that.
That makes all the sense in the world. You have
to figure out what your level of commitment is to this,
(37:57):
and I'm not saying that you have to be a
ninja or a warrior or anything like that. I'm just
thinking that most people would benefit from getting their head
out of their phone, because if you're walking across the
parking lot staring at your phone, you're not seeing everything
that's going on around you. You're what do we say,
(38:19):
if you look like food, you're going to be eating. Yeah,
you're making yourself an easy target. You know, you're the
slow antelope at the back of the pack that the
wolves are going to come come after or the lions
are going to get So just thinking about it a
little bit and all it takes is a little bit
studying about it, thinking about it at home, situational awareness, yeah,
(38:40):
all of that, and then getting wheel training, learning to
draw from concealment, learning to shoot, learning to move, learning
how to go through a house. Yeah, it can be involved,
but it can also be fun. I would encourage you
to make a commitment to do that. Eight six' six
talk gun right. Now it would be a great time
(39:09):
for you to call and get into the after show
where we have a little bit more time to knock
around some ideas and call me It tom talk gun right.
Now we'll put you into the after show along those,
lines just a quick explanation of how everything works around.
Here some people think of this as a, podcast and it,
is and others think of his radio, show and it.
(39:31):
Is here's what we. Do we put this out as
a radio. Show it is live now going out coast
to coast all over the country on hundreds of radio.
Stations after we do the live, show we archive all
of this and then we put it back up as a,
podcast and then we add to it a part that
doesn't go out to the radio. Stations we call that
(39:52):
the after. Show it's a little bonus or In Louisiana,
talk it's lend. Yapp we add to what you. Get
so if you go to where actually wherever you get, Podcasts, Spotify,
YouTube you, know, iTunes anywhere you get, podcasts you can
find Gun. Talk of, course we have other podcasts we
do as well that the guys down In louisiana. Do
(40:12):
so that's how it all. Works, okay here a little
behind the. Scenes the magic of it, Is i'm setting
In idaho And i'm connected right now To jim and
his fabulous studio In, Toledo ohio through the magic of
The internet and some really, cool very professional high end.
Gear and then he takes all of this and takes
your calls and mixes it all, together and then he
sends it To, denver and then In denver they take
(40:36):
it and mix it together and shoot it up to,
satellites and it goes up to, satellites and then they
lose satellites send it back down to the radio, stations
and all this is happening in real, time and then
the radio stations shoot it, out of course over the
regular radio. Waves we could pick it up in your
car or. Wherever they also live stream it all over the.
Place if you want to find the stations that do,
(40:57):
that you go to gun talk dot com and look
under gun Talk radio and we have a list of
all these hundreds of stations that carry it live or
sometimes they'll tape delay. It so that's kind of the
behind the scenes thing and how it. Works it is to,
me it's amazing doing this for thirty, years how it
all has, changed and how you can do it from,
anywhere and the power and the amazing flexibility if you,
(41:21):
will of The. Internet SO i, mean there you. Go
that's how gun talk comes to. YOU i am more
behind the. SCENES i spend a lot of the week
doing the research for, this lining up the, guests maybe
doing the interviews kind of like The silence Or Central
deal that took several days to pull that. Together, again
(41:42):
this is the only place they've done in an interview
on this. Controversy and, YES i get people are saying,
yeah but they said, This, well back. Up how do
you know they said? Something you read it on the? Internet? Right? Huh?
Please you know better to than to believe what you
see on the. Internet BUT i saw this thing and they.
(42:05):
Posted their lobbyists said. Yes their lobbyists said they're going
to be to develop and support suppressor tax conservation. LEGISLATION
a lot of people have looked at that and, said,
oh they want to conserve and guarantee that we have
attacked on. Suppressors H, no this is to get the,
(42:26):
funds at least according to What Brandon maddox, said to
take the funds that two hundred dollars you pay and
rather than just give it to the federal government to
use any where they want, to he, said let's put
that into The Pittman robertson funds and that money is
used for habitat restoration and to build shooting. Ranges so
that's develop and support suppressor tax stamp conservation legislation not
(42:52):
what you've been told it, was and join me over
on x formerly known As. Twitter i'm at gun talk over.
There you can call me right now At Tom Talk
gun and we'll get you into the after. Show and of,
course by all, means if you don't agree with, me
call me in tell me. Why you, know have the
guts to stand up and tell. ME i will listen
and we'll discuss. It there you. Go in the, meantime
(43:14):
buy a new, gun buy, accessories go out and buy some.
Ammo it's cheap these, days by the, way ammo, is
and shoot a. Lot the more you, shoot the better you.
Get oh, yeah it's also. Fun, hey thanks for being.
Here what's see you next. Week
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