October 22, 2025 • 41 mins
Gun Talk Nation host Ryan Gresham is joined by Jeremy Hedin (@whatthekicks) and Santiago Lopez (@tactical.santi) for a brutally honest conversation about self-defense, mindset, social media in the gun world, and the wild, unpredictable nature of scenario-based training with CCW Safe. From shoot/no-shoot decisions to the psychology of memory under stress, this episode dives deep into what really happens when theory meets reality.
The Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by NRA ARC, EOTECH, Safariland, Range Ready Studios, and Kimber.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 10.22.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
The Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by NRA ARC, EOTECH, Safariland, Range Ready Studios, and Kimber.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2025 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 10.22.25
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
She asked me what he was wearing, and I see
everything green, but he wasn't wearing everything green. And then
I saw it thinking he was like he had a
great sweater and I'm like, and some there you.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Some shoes, So.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
What's he wearing? I don't know, some ugly shoes.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I know that.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is Guntognation. Guntognation is
brought to you by n RA A ARC, Safari, Land Eotech,
Range Ready and Kimber.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Let's kick this off.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Welcome into Guntognation. So today on Guntognation, two guys that
you may actually know already, So let's just welcome in.
We're gonna talk about some stuff. Jeremy hitting, what the kicks?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
How you doing? I feel underdressed, but.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
This is your deal. You know that shorts being comfortable?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Santiago aka tactical sciental santi and I it's Santiago.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Santi is good for my buddies. But tactical, I don't know.
That just came out when I guess when I first started. Yeah,
I just found it cool tactic, cool tacticall santis All right,
So this is gonna go off. The rails right from
the start.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
All right, I got a story for you. Let's so
what uh we were just talking about. And this is
something that comes up in conversation. People will say the
phrase only fans, and I got a story for you.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
You don't know what's nothing?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
You're like, wear it only I have a story for you. Well,
first of all, I've never been on the website. I'm
aware of the website. I only think I know what
goes on on the website. However, I ran across you
know how like social media will just feed you something
and you're like, oh, what's that, and a lot of
it's just be I don't care, you go past it.
(02:01):
And I was like, Wow, there's this girl and she's
hunting and she's talking about conservation and like how it
raises money for conservation and even like we brought back
all these species of animals and I was like wow,
what a good like conservation message. And I could tell
she had a little bit of an accent, and I
was like wow. And then I looked at the page
(02:21):
and yeah, she's a cute girl. Whatever. I'm sorry, everybody,
this is the off the rails I told you.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I just just stay with I'm prepared.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
You're gonna like this. I promise everybody's gonna go. This
is not gonna go where you think I'm gonna go
with this. Oh so I'm like that's and then and
like cool. And she's doing some pretty interesting hunts, like wow,
she's in Argentina doing red stacks, She's in Africa doing this,
and like, man, that's that's also expensive. Right. So I
mentioned it to kJ because he has his podcast gunn
(02:49):
Talk Hunt and I was like, there's this girl and
I don't really know much about her, but she seems
to be doing this thing. He's like, I'll look at it.
Maybe we could have her on the show. Minutes later,
he goes, hey, Ryan, there's a problem. What's the problem?
She's on OnlyFans. I'm like, what he does, Well, if
you dig a little deeper into her bio, there's some
(03:10):
other links and like, be sure to follow me these
other places. And I'm like, dude, you should have her
on the title of the podcast is I do pourn
to pay for hunting?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Oh my, that means sick dude. But here's my question.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I'm not going to mention her name.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Everybody's like, wait, who I'm going to Google it as
soon as we leave.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
But is is she posting hunting content as well?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yes, there's hunting content.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
I'm the only fans. Oh oh oh oh No, that's
what I don't know. It's like hunting porn. No, that's
that's that's I mean, it is too far. And I
hope no, I hope not. No, I hope no. But
I'm saying, hey, you can see what I shot in Africa.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
But you have to subscribe.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, you know, I mean, she's she's I don't know.
We'll move on, but I just wanted to share.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
That story for you because that was that you've got
You've got to start betting, You've got do you.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Have to dig in there? So we were and I
thought it because we were talking about social media and
like how everybody's a brand and stuff and and my
thing is this, like you know who always thought was
cool is I don't want to be famous, but but
I want to be I wouldn't mind being rich. That
would be cool, right. Sam Walton, the guy who in Walmart, Yeah,
and his whole family.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
His family is rich.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
And he drives around like a nineteen eighty one pickup truck.
Nobody realizes he owns Walmart, and he's dead now, but
went back in the day, back in the nineties and
was still live and doing his thing. He's just an
old dude. He's not a famous person right now. And
I mean, I'm calling you guys out because you guys
both following us.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
But you know, it's like I mean, but it's it's
just kind of a funny thing, like the social media,
you know, dressed like a normal dude, zuckingberg T shirt
pants Adam Sandler, even though he's say it's a sidetrack,
but he doesn't act like he doesn't dress Steve.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Jobs anywhere he was live. Hey, huh Steve Jobs correct.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yeah, So what do you think is things are going
with social media and guns and gun fluencing and all
that stuff. Both of you guys are in that world. Jeremy,
I think.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
It's all going down a pay for this, We'll give
you a snippet, but here's the rest. And I don't
know if that's the right way or not, but I
just feel like even on YouTube or well Instagram, let's
say Instagram, there's a they can follow you, but then
(05:43):
you can also solicit subscribe and I'll share, you know
more in depth videos about training, guns, hunting, whatever. And
I feel like that's forcing all the influencers to come off.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
More as a brand.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Oh yeah, you know what I mean, because then they're
selling themselves, not just giving you know, content out for
free because they love it. I didn't start an Instagram
because I wanted money.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I didn't.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
I was taking pictures of spaghetti and you know, in
my first you know, handgun, when I first got it
in cars, when I was building my you know cars,
And I know, like Santi is the same thing. He's
got multiple pages and he separated them, so I know
it wasn't about it can't be about that we all
started off. But now I think they're just spoon feeding
(06:36):
it to us.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Santi, what are your different pages? So they're different subjects?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Lift guns, right, So I have a couple of pages.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I have gun Dos, LC, Guns Network, Gun Friends, Guns Pictures, Rifle.
I used to have one of those called gun and
he had a one point six million followers. And then
I get you got suspended by Instagram a few years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Is it all Instagram based? Those are all Instagrams?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And then I have my own tactical Santi and my
personal Santi, which is completely different from what I usually
do with there life.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
He's on there with half a shirt on bottle. It
was like my there was flight life.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
There's like water sprinkling in and like sweat. Yeah, he's
out there living his best life.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So one point six billion followers on Instagram and now
the page doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Who doesn't know? So I tried getting it back. I
had to connect on Instagram back in the day. I
reached out a couple of times. That person was not
there anymore. I couldn't do anything for me, and I
was trying to reach out to all their alternatives.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And we lossd Our very first.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Yeah, you know a few months and that was something
that we were working on together because my page had
been struck a few of our friends. But we tried
hard to get that one, and it just it's like
it doesn't exist, it doesn't stay disabled.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's just he doesn't vanished.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So one time I went back into Instagram and I
just put it on search far as just curiosity, and
some random dude appeared with that name like some like
yeah like three. It had been gone so long that yeah, yeah,
so I mean you really sucked with that page.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I used to it for good.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I didn't like I did it for advertising as well,
but I promoted a bunch of my friends there just
to help them out grow their social media's as well.
I still do with my pages. I don't make money
off of them. I just you know, help people I
care about and also, uh, you know, get free amo.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, because that's something. Yeah, what do we talk about?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Earlier?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I wanted to post at four o'clock and I always
call you when I'm gonna post, and we were outside
and forgot, you know, miss hut window. You know, but
I was, I was having fun. But it's you know.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Is there?
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I mean, see, do you how does that affect you?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Guys?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
When you think about you built this thing up and
then it just goes boop, that's gone, Like with the
thought there the.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Keep going, well, no, you keep going, you keep pushing.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, so I think it. It depends, right, if it's
your personal brand, like like, for instance, if you were
to get your what the kicks count kicked you know,
boot it, that would you know, that would be devastating
because like you basically depend on that one page. Right,
if I was to get any of my other pages booted,
like gne for instance, it would kind of be like
it would be bad, but it'll be upsetting, But it's
(09:30):
not the end of the world. Like I can ask
to have other pages. I can make another one and
grow it again. But growing your own brand, and nowadays
on Instagram for instance, is.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
So hard in this industry for sure, because we're so Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So it's not just because it's tougher, is because they
have they have our account so suppressed, like you have
to type up the whole entire name of the account
in order for you to come to the shadow Man is.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Right, it's real.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
It's really a lot of a lot of different platforms too. Yeah,
I just I want to get into that because that's
that Yell's world. But you want to talk about what
we've been doing the last couple of days, Absolutely, all right,
it's super fun. So you guys are down here for
a CCW safe media event, and most media events, you
(10:15):
guys have both been to them. We go out in
the range, we shoot a bunch of guns, we shoot
a bunch of AMMO. This one, I deliberately, as we
talked through, I said, you know, I don't think we
need to even need to go out in the range.
Because this is all about what happens. It's it's a
media event, as they said in there for a product
that they hope you never use, right, which is kind
of crazy.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
And come to find out, this might be the best
way to market that kind of product because we all
know about them. But it really hit home these last
two days.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
So we put you guys through self defense scenarios and
people watching this and watch our stuff No first person Defender.
We ran five in really a day and a half.
What'd you think, man? What'd you guys think?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I felt it was so.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I usually do stairs type type of things every once
in a while, but nothing like this. This were different
types of scenarios like there will put you like in
your house, Like, what will you do if this happened
in your house?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
What would this?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
What would happen if you get a fender vendor? What
will happen if you have at your friend's house and
you know some random dude that you don't know it
might be one of your buddy's friends or comes in
and you know you can't just pull your gun and
shoot them, right, Like, There's so many things that go
through your head and to analyze that situation, to where
am I able to use my gun? Is this like
(11:43):
you know, like is that the right move? How can
I de escalate this situation? Or what what can I
do in order to you know, not to rely on
deadly force.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
You guys both had some moments this week, some some
really like wow, that was really cool. Also some kind
of weak. We all had so much fun because we
know each other. Yeah, there was some fun like laughing
around stuff too. Sont you first one? I was the
bad guy, yeah, and you were very much like, yeah,
no problem, bro, I'll bring you inside. Kind of I
would say, like feigned compliance, like yeah, no problem. And
(12:17):
of course you're a good shooter. You probably you practice
all the time, you can draw, you could shoot. Because
of that, you decided, okay, I'll feign compliance because I'm
gonna give myself an opportunity to draw and pull on.
And it was kind of like before I knew it
as the bad guy, there was a gun on my face.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah. Yeah, well we all have about a lot of phones.
We talked about the thumb the way home, all right,
yeah talk.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
There was another thing that you know, like in that
specific scenario, I got too close and that's something that
we always talk about in scenario training. It's like you
have to keep your distance, looked at the waistline of hands.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
You know, I think I put my hand on your shoulder.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, you kind of.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Got they go buddy and put me And now that
when you did that, I'm like, what I do?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You knew you crossed. I knew. I was like, okay,
well I could have.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I was expecting you, like literally draw your gun and
put it against my like my tie on my ribs.
I was litally waiting for something. You didn't do it.
So I'm like, okay, I have a chance. Right, So
I pretended that I was looking for my keys, and
I drew my gun and turned around and named the
gun at you. And you I don't know if I
call you off guard. I knew I know you because
of experience. You were expecting me to do that.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, I knew you were gonna I knew you were
sure all but I was as a bad guy when
we have to do this on the scenario train, like
I was a bad guy who didn't know you. I
didn't know you carry You're very concealed true, so true
to the character, being true to the character, like, hey,
bad guys don't assume. If I assumed you were armed,
I wouldn't be trying to muscle you and hold you up.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Ruse.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I'm like just a dude. So like I was surprised
that you didn't shoot me because you spun around and
stuck the gun on my face, and I was I
flinched because I'll go here it comes.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Like, yeah, you tensed up. It was good. Yeah, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I honestly don't didn't think you deserved to die, like
I felt like, you know, you're control. I took back control,
like I said, is my last resource. Like if I
can control the situation, if you would have put your
hand or go to your waistline and you would have
been lit up, but you didn't.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You hold your hands.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
You started walking away, and I held my gun out
and point at you while you were walking away. So
I waited for you to, you know, until we get
a safe distance and then the cool scenario. So I
don't think there was I mean I could have legally,
I can get away with it, but do I really
want to do that? Maybe not, you know, like I
don't want to live in there.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
That's that's a theme for this, right we had we
had ones where they were the bad guy was a
bad guy, and we had ones where that control that
role player was actually not a bad guy. And what
we had some mixes of folks Jeremy shooting people who
maybe weren't a bad guy.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
First of all, talk about that four out of six
of us shot the guy that was not supposedly a
bad guy. Yeah, let me break it down for y'all
those at home. Chris Serno was adamant and and other
Chris will call you know, Chris Cunningham. They were like, Hey,
I want you all to live in these roles, you know,
(15:23):
I want you to put yourself and just really like
you said, stay true to character. So it was a hey,
you're in your house, sitting on your couch. This is
the only room that you're you know, you're able to
maneuver in, and we're gonna call you know, live let
let let's go. So in my head, it's like, all right,
(15:44):
I live in a state where I don't have friends
or family.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I don't have my kids in that state.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
They yeah, no friends, bro, Those calls those guy though, Yeah,
but they get you in trouble. And so you know,
we're sitting on the couch and it. So it's funny
because earlier in the day I asked, kJ, you're gonna
be a bad guy today and he was like, nope, not,
I'm just running today. And I'm like, okay, because you know,
(16:10):
obviously I wanted to, you know, light him up if
I could, you know, we can do some.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Get them, yeah, a little double tap peeping, but uh.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
No, sitting on the couch and all I started hearing
was footsteps and I didn't know, but I didn't all
I all I can remember is it was a guy
in a hoodie with his hands in his pocket coming
into my front room and all he said was, man,
it's cold out there. I didn't wait two point seven
seconds before I lit him up, and I felt and
(16:39):
if you ask anybody, you'll probably when they when they
put it on, you'll see I go over and move
his hand out of his pocket and it ended up
being his phone. So again I shot the supposed good guy.
But he was in my house and I didn't give
him a chance to explain why. But I'm sure some
of the viewers would think the same. They're in their
(17:00):
house and somebody walks in, are they in it? And
I I asked you to, so you don't have to
come here and go through the mindset and you know
the double you know, thinking back and double taking.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Did I do the right thing? If somebody walked into your.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Living room you didn't know, and you knew your doors
were locked and nobody else was there, what would be
the questions you ask or what what what would the
situation look like to you.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I'm glad you said that because part of the the
point of this is to just help people to start
thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
The mental side is crazy because.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
People will listening and watching this will say, I'll just
shoot them. I'm justified, I'll shoot them. I'm like, it's
my castle, castle doctrine. I live in a right and
then and a lot of people did. It was a
difficult situation, but maybe consider other things. I want shoot them,
like that's like very social media comment, Right, We'll just
(18:00):
shoot his ass? Yeah, well, how abouts just go who
are you? And I really did think you guys both
you hopped up, you drew your gun and put it.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
That's where I have a gun out well, and that's
what I laid in bed. That's what I talked to
Chris after the fact, and the mental side when she
was talking through scenarios. I know I'm good. I know
I'm good with my weapon and the weapons that were using.
And if you carry or the one that's sitting on
your nightstand, that is your go to I knew, and
(18:31):
I drew. I beat him to the draw if he
did have a gun. Yeah, so I could have talked
my way out of that situation without really putting my
life in danger if I wanted to. But there was
no way to take cover in there, and I would
have felt more comfortable getting distanced.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah, you were. You guys were kind of ten ten
feet sort of trapped in there.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
So that's my only that's my only knock that I
think maybe I would have if I could have backed
around the couch or you know, got around the table
and created some distance. Because we all know, even if
you didn't have a gun, if you just wanted to lunge,
he can be there. That we've proven that. That's why
the one second draw is so important.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Santi. If you have the gun up, sites are on
bad guy, you're touching the trigger, maybe you're into the trigger.
How quickly can the bullet hit him? I don't know
about thousand feet per second and ten feet right like
like it's just it's a movement of.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Yeah, that's what that's what takes me to jail break splits, yeah,
right and more.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
If I'm just I if I'm in my trigger, like,
if I'm in my trigger guard, usually I just keep
my finger off my trigger right, just because I don't
want to risk it. But I I'm able to put
my finger back in trigger and fire without it within
a point two point one eight from And.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I'm not saying that to pick on anybody, but it
is kind of a if he makes a move and
you see a gun coming out, you have shots. I
promise you you have shots on target before he can
do anything. Now, it's not a guarantee he doesn't return fire.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So to my defense, to our defense, this guy, she's
literally just walking to our house. You know, I'm not
picking on you, No, no, no, I get it. But what I'm
saying is he walks into the house with his end
of his pocket. He could have a gun in his pocket.
He doesn't need to draw, he could just shoot us
from his pocket.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
That that is true. That's fair. I don't you know
what I'm saying, Like that's a good clob all right.
I got back about that at dinner to night.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
But he could have shot us through the pocket.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Well, that's true. He could have been shot it from
the top. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
And also like like they said, it was supposed to
be like a like a you know, like a kid
who especially who is running.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Around the neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah, you don't know exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
We don't know what exactly who it is.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
He might have been like some dude that got the
wrong address just started walking in or Airbnb wrong address
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, it could have right, just wrong.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
It just it just you know, bad plays, bad timing,
you know what I'm saying, Like, how can I know?
It's it's also like for me to make this split decision.
We did that distance as to somebody that I'm not expecting,
I'm not you know, like out of somebody that I
don't know with the hind in the pocket. How much
it's so much like to digest in such a little time, how.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Much of it being your house and really putting yourself
in the mental of it being your house made that
decision more you know happen, Like what made you make
that decision? How much was based of it or how
much of it was based on it being your house,
all of it?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
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we're back, all right, Let's talk about the wildest scenario
of this, Well, I have my opinions, Jeremy, but what
(24:14):
do you guys think the wildest scenario, the toughest one
was I plead the.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Fifth well, I don't think you did.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
When he's when he's based on your thing, go ahead,
I don't go ahead and tell him okay, hear me out.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
I could plain hear me out.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Hear me out.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
And I'm talking to you all as my friends and
not as my legal advice.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
And also, look, this is practice, this is training. We
want people to have mess ups and try stuff and whatever.
This is the time to do it right now.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Go he's making it seem like I messed up? Did
mess up? I don't think. Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
We all right, go ahead, I'm gonna set it up right.
The you're a passenger. You just pulled into a liquor store.
Your friend is driving, so that's all we know. So
they call action. I'm in the passenger side doors open,
her door's open. We get out to go into the store,
(25:17):
and you hear three gun shots. It was two or
three gun shots. And then the person comes out of
the door with a gun in his hand, and he's
telling me, hey, I'm the owner of this store. I'm
the owner of this store. There's somebody inside with a gun.
My instinct is to draw my gun. I told my
(25:38):
the person that was driving, hey, take cover. I'm gonna
check it out. At the end of the day. I
don't know if the guy the owner is actually the owner,
if he's hit, but I'm going into the liquor store
to neutralize, to neutralizes. Listen, well, here's here's my thing.
If you could just see that the owner that fell out,
(26:01):
that had the gun in his hand, that said somebody
is inside shooting, is away from the door. So if
I turned my back to that door to render aid
to him, my thought process is there's still a bad
guy in there that could come out with cash and
a gun in hand and shoot me in the back.
So my instinct was to go neutralize the threat, or
(26:22):
just at least see if the threat ran out of
the backs, whatever the case maybe is. I was gonna
be nosys sue me.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I was gonna be no.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
You didn't do it wrong, I know, but no. So
when I go in, it was just wild. It was
I guess nobody else ran in.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
No one else ran in store.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Everybody nobody. I'm thirsty and I like, I like what
I like? Yeah, no, we came for a reason. I'm
going I heard that burbot.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Uh No, So I run in, I clear the liquor store,
and in the peripheral, in my peripheral, I see said
owner holding a gun to my friend telling her to
get in the car, and he's now attempting to kidnap
my friend. So mind you. This whole time, I don't
know that this wasn't a ploy. I think that he
(27:10):
tricked me and was like, oh, and he's actually the
bad guy. So I run outside and as he's trying
to get into the car, I shoot him. He returns fire.
He hits me one time. I neutralize the threat.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
He get bystander hit.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
We'll get it out the bad guy.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yo.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Yeah, mind you we're talking about this is the coolest thing,
and I really want you all to take it home.
He did hit an innocent bystander because he was shooting
his gun as he was falling down. He hit the
owner of CCWSA, who is a in the forehead, who
isn't an amazing human being, and he took it like
(27:47):
a champ. Hit him right in the forehead. And then
continued to stay out there, play and roll and you know,
be there for everybody else. So again, an amazing person.
But so whole time, this whole situation goes down, I
really thought that he tricked me. I go inside, I
come out, I neutralize the threat. I get handed to
(28:09):
call the cops.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
She's safe. I hand her my phone. Boom.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
We call in and kJ gets up and he goes,
that was not what was supposed to happen. Now, I
was actually a good guy. And I said, well, then,
why the hell did you try and kidnap my friend?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
What did he say?
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Huh?
Speaker 4 (28:23):
He was like, well, nobody expected you to go in,
and you ran up on me so fast. He said,
you got by me so fast and believed what I
said so fast that.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
You were just like, yeah, stay right there, and I
ran in with.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
The one scenario in five times eight forty scenarios we
say we're not doing a gotcha thing. We're not doing
like yeah, it was the one where kJ, I think went,
you know what, I'm a wing. I think we're just
gonna go off off script right now.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
I think he did it because I shot him so fast.
In the last scenario the day before so I have
my own opinions on that, But no, it was awesome
because I missed the opportunity to really take in that
scenario because everybody else, I guess, was not so quick
to enter or believe and they you know, they all
(29:17):
move different. And that's what I loved about this whole
thing is you got to see four guys and four
girls all approached these situations completely different, and you got
to watch them in real time. But I guess I
was the only one that was like, oh, yeah, you're
the owner, gullible with hell and ran in Jerry.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Else is pointing the gun at the owner most of
the time, but I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I did for a little bit.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
I went in and I pointed, like because I was
double checked as soon as I went in, I'm thinking,
is he nope, he's not, so I clear and come
out and you know so.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
But it it was fund. We haven't had a great
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better at the range. So go check it out. Range
Ready Studios dot Com. We had a really great moment
(30:53):
today in the shoot house, which was an interesting scenario,
and you're gonna have to describe what happened. You're you're
in your friend's house. We kind of teased this earlier.
This is one of the scenarios. You're in your friend's
house waiting for your friend. Your friend is upstairs taking
a shower, and someone walks to the front door.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
So I was just sitting on the couch right just
minding my own business. And then some guy just storms
in the front door, just calling my friend's name, all
like amped up. And you know, usually when somebody comes
into another person's house, like they introduced themselves, right, you
can actually see like, oh hey, what's up. Well are
you We're trying No.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
He was just like.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Ryan, well are you?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
And I was like, yo, who are you? What are
you doing here? What do you need? Like he's sticking
a shower?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
So I stood up because this guy just literally storming
into the house. I followed him and I started talking
to him like hey man, what do you need, Like
anything I can help you?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Bah blah.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I don't even know exactly what I said, but I
started to establish a conversation with him, and.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
He was just facing back and forth. He was really
amped up, like he really He's like, you dude, just
slapt with my girlfriend.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Oh lah.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
He's like I'm gonna kill him. And I'm like, look, bro,
you gotta chill out. I know it sucks, but you
have to understand like this, this is not worth it,
you know, like you know, like this just go outside.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It was very good, and all of them kind of
like hey man, it's cool. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
The most laid back person. Ever, it's I just.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I don't want I don't really want to use my gun, bro,
you know what I'm saying there, So I kept from
you know, trying to de escalate the situation. He kind
of put his hand on the gun, and I'm like, dude,
there's no need for that, you know. Like I still
didn't draw. I still didn't. I just kept my hands
up like this. I'm like, yo, you gotta chill, let's
go outside. I suck about it, and he's like, no, man,
and then he drew his gun and patting his hand.
(32:39):
I'm all right, look, I get it. I'm gonna go
all right.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Like hands up, and he's like, I'm gonna walk out.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I understand, like there's no need for this. And then
he's like, get the flout of here. So I started
walking out. I'm all right, cool, I'm out. I'm just
gonna go, and he started following me. He kind of
stayed there for a little bit. I went around the wall,
worked towards the sofa where we were at like the room,
and then once I cleared, I drew my gun, turned around.
I took a knee to kind of you. So I
(33:07):
took a knee and I waited till he cleared that
corner and he had he still had his honey, the
gun in his hand, and I just shot him twice
and he fell down. So I approached him. He still
had the gun in his hand, but he was injured,
so I told him to drop it. Obviously I was
pointing at him, and that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Then. Yeah, you know Auntie wickt wig Bro.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
So, guys Jerby you are, you're a shooter. You're also
a guy who loves custom guns. Santi, you're a shooter,
you're head of a shooter and an instructor and all that.
Despite all that, it's almost like that kind of doesn't
matter in these scenarios. I am I right or wrong?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
It only I mean, I feel like the only advantage
we had was we know how to draw, and you know,
we practiced that. But other than that, I mean, it
didn't change the scenario. You still have to have mental capacity,
be willing to talk to people and be understanding of
(34:11):
the surroundings. You can have whatever gune, whatever training you want,
there's still an aspect that's missing. Will it make you
a better shot if you have to take the hard shots,
if you have to get on a knee and shoot
a guy from fifteen yards through the room, you know
what I mean, absolutely sure. But in most of these
you're within seven yards. So technically we had no advantage.
(34:33):
I don't think we did situational awareness, maybe because it's
a different thing.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
We always say. This is like a thinking game of
trying to de escalate it, trying to talk your way
out of it. Try to also looking for your chance,
your set of Fine, man, I'll leave the house. And
as soon as you walked out of one room into
another room and the wall is concealing, that's when you drew. Yeah,
he didn't just stand there out in the open and draw.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Especially because he had his gun in his hand, which
would have you and I could have drawn. I could
have drew my gun like right in front of him,
and it had like like a wall like with a door,
like I can hide. But I just didn't feel like
that was the right place.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Some people will say, oh, you have to you can
conceal yourself, you can, you know whatever. I'm like, I
don't think that was. I didn't want to esk any
things so quickly.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
You got to make that call for yourself, so not
just that, like.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
You were also saying, like how you know practicing other
range and competition stuff like that does make you better
with the tool that you're using. But you know, it's
like training any sports, right, You go to practice, you
juggle the ball, you you for your quarterback, you throw
the ball a thousand times, so when it comes to
game time, that just becomes second nature, right, But the
actual mind that the actual decision making.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
You really don't train well.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Going to the batting cage is different than going and
hitting against a real picture in a game going into the.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Driving I was just about to say.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
That hitting balls, I'm driving this.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Driving range, I can't.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Yeah, put me on the golf course and two white
claws in and I'm horrible.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, damn.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Like laws freshing, I would say, the the biggest thing
that I took from the whole situation is getting to
debrief after everyone really messed with your psyche because you
hear not just if your decision was good or bad,
not bad, but you know, I mean you're talking through
(36:31):
what your other options would have been. You're hearing so
many options, and then you walk into another situation and
your mind is scrambled and you can't say that that
made it any worse, because real life is like that,
you're gonna leave work, you're you're upset because of work,
or you're tired because you're been at work, you're arguing
with one of your friends, and you can't you know,
(36:52):
you know, your car's got a flat whatever. Your brain
is gonna be jumbled going into all these real life situations.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I because we talked about like, well, you're.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Your kids and your work and your whatever.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, crush.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
And I just think that we used that as a
crutch and we were like, you know, maybe you know,
we should wait to debrief till after or you know,
we're thinking we just let's just get through them. But honestly,
I think that really set the tone for reality. Yeah,
and I love the way we did it.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
So do you got any takeaways or any thoughts?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, definitely the aftermath. There's a lot of things that
go on that goes on afterwards. I was always taught you,
I don't talk to the police, you know, wait for
your lawyer right from the hood. But yeah, just just
wait for the just way for the lawyer. But in
cases like you know, sometimes the lawyer would don't won't
(37:46):
get there if you're have insurance, like, they won't get
there like what twenty four hours maybe, so you're gonna
have to spend the night.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
In jail in order for that to happen.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Or you can just tell them the just like the
top of the Iceberger, I just tell them enough to
get you out, but then go full specific when your
lawyer gets there.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Yeah, and they're gonna press you for specifics, but you
don't have to do that correctright, God I'm saying I
ain't saying nothing. It's kind of it's adversarial. It may
not be helpful. Yep, you could, you could say a
little bit. That's the bad guy. I want to press charges.
His weapon is there. I'd like to talk to a lorder.
Speaker 4 (38:25):
I like them, right, yeah, this is why we're here,
that's you know. And then again not oh, I'm not
speaking to y'all. It's a hey, this is what I remember.
This is what happened, you know, is the bare minimum.
He's there, he's down.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Say a little bit because they're gonna say, really, what
else happened?
Speaker 2 (38:44):
And they're gonna they're gonna fish it.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
It may not be that they're trying to it's not
at all, but they're just they're just like they're like,
because that's what you do when you're interviewing, really what
else happened?
Speaker 1 (38:55):
But I also think like you also have to be
careful with what you say because like, if you say
some specifics wrong that can actually be held against you.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Later you can hear what happened, right.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
We had some of that, So basically the wording of
how you say things, he can save you. Instead of like, oh,
yeah he was wearing this, this and that, oh but
he wasn't right, he could be like, well, I think
he was wearing this. I'm not sure. I can't remember correctly.
But that could also like get you out of a
you know, you know, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Chris said, it's like, why are you gonna make up stuff?
I think it was this?
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I was thinking that It's just I'm not really sure. Yeah,
I don't know, And then when you do recall, it
doesn't look like you're trying to change your story.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
It's crazy.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
The kJ incident or the liquor store incident with me,
that was one of the only times that Chris came
up and asked us for details right of what happened
right then, and it had just happened. And luckily I
was able to give her all the answers that I
knew were correct in the moment, but at the minute
(39:58):
I walked away.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I second guessed myself. Yeah, I was right.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
I went back and I even asked for video so
I can make sure I went and look and see
what kJ was wearing, you know, to make sure I
gave her the right info. But that's how quick you
can answer something and then really doubt it the minute
you walk away, like, oh.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
It isn't even it's not even that.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
It's like you might feel like, for instance, in that
scenario with the friend's house, I felt completely under control.
I felt good right, like I didn't feel like I
was amped up, like I was a little bit, but
I didn't. I felt like I was under control. And
she was asking me the same questions. And she asked
me what he was wearing, and I see everything green,
but he wasn't wearing everything green. And then I saw
the think he was like, he had a great sweater
(40:38):
and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
And some.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Ugly and some ugly shoes, so.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
What's he wearing? I know some ugly shoes.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I know that I'm one with the police once he
got on. I don't know, some ugly shoes.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
And you know, if you said that, I'd probably say
he's probably right, probably noticed the shoes.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I do first. I noticed when I walk into a room.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
You guys have to come back and do some first
person defender.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yes, I'm super down.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
All right, good next season. Yeah, it'll be lots of fun. Yes,
thanks for being on with.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Us, guys. Thank you all right.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Awesome, thanks for listening, thanks for watching. We'll see you
guys next time on gun Talk Nation.
She asked me what he was wearing, and I see
everything green, but he wasn't wearing everything green. And then
I saw it thinking he was like he had a
great sweater and I'm like, and some there you.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Some shoes, So.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
What's he wearing? I don't know, some ugly shoes.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I know that.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is Guntognation. Guntognation is
brought to you by n RA A ARC, Safari, Land Eotech,
Range Ready and Kimber.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Let's kick this off.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Welcome into Guntognation. So today on Guntognation, two guys that
you may actually know already, So let's just welcome in.
We're gonna talk about some stuff. Jeremy hitting, what the kicks?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
How you doing? I feel underdressed, but.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
This is your deal. You know that shorts being comfortable?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Santiago aka tactical sciental santi and I it's Santiago.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Santi is good for my buddies. But tactical, I don't know.
That just came out when I guess when I first started. Yeah,
I just found it cool tactic, cool tacticall santis All right,
So this is gonna go off. The rails right from
the start.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
All right, I got a story for you. Let's so
what uh we were just talking about. And this is
something that comes up in conversation. People will say the
phrase only fans, and I got a story for you.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
You don't know what's nothing?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
You're like, wear it only I have a story for you. Well,
first of all, I've never been on the website. I'm
aware of the website. I only think I know what
goes on on the website. However, I ran across you
know how like social media will just feed you something
and you're like, oh, what's that, and a lot of
it's just be I don't care, you go past it.
(02:01):
And I was like, Wow, there's this girl and she's
hunting and she's talking about conservation and like how it
raises money for conservation and even like we brought back
all these species of animals and I was like wow,
what a good like conservation message. And I could tell
she had a little bit of an accent, and I
was like wow. And then I looked at the page
(02:21):
and yeah, she's a cute girl. Whatever. I'm sorry, everybody,
this is the off the rails I told you.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I just just stay with I'm prepared.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
You're gonna like this. I promise everybody's gonna go. This
is not gonna go where you think I'm gonna go
with this. Oh so I'm like that's and then and
like cool. And she's doing some pretty interesting hunts, like wow,
she's in Argentina doing red stacks, She's in Africa doing this,
and like, man, that's that's also expensive. Right. So I
mentioned it to kJ because he has his podcast gunn
(02:49):
Talk Hunt and I was like, there's this girl and
I don't really know much about her, but she seems
to be doing this thing. He's like, I'll look at it.
Maybe we could have her on the show. Minutes later,
he goes, hey, Ryan, there's a problem. What's the problem?
She's on OnlyFans. I'm like, what he does, Well, if
you dig a little deeper into her bio, there's some
(03:10):
other links and like, be sure to follow me these
other places. And I'm like, dude, you should have her
on the title of the podcast is I do pourn
to pay for hunting?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Oh my, that means sick dude. But here's my question.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I'm not going to mention her name.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Everybody's like, wait, who I'm going to Google it as
soon as we leave.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
But is is she posting hunting content as well?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yes, there's hunting content.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
I'm the only fans. Oh oh oh oh No, that's
what I don't know. It's like hunting porn. No, that's
that's that's I mean, it is too far. And I
hope no, I hope not. No, I hope no. But
I'm saying, hey, you can see what I shot in Africa.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
But you have to subscribe.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, you know, I mean, she's she's I don't know.
We'll move on, but I just wanted to share.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
That story for you because that was that you've got
You've got to start betting, You've got do you.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Have to dig in there? So we were and I
thought it because we were talking about social media and
like how everybody's a brand and stuff and and my
thing is this, like you know who always thought was
cool is I don't want to be famous, but but
I want to be I wouldn't mind being rich. That
would be cool, right. Sam Walton, the guy who in Walmart, Yeah,
and his whole family.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
His family is rich.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
And he drives around like a nineteen eighty one pickup truck.
Nobody realizes he owns Walmart, and he's dead now, but
went back in the day, back in the nineties and
was still live and doing his thing. He's just an
old dude. He's not a famous person right now. And
I mean, I'm calling you guys out because you guys
both following us.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
But you know, it's like I mean, but it's it's
just kind of a funny thing, like the social media,
you know, dressed like a normal dude, zuckingberg T shirt
pants Adam Sandler, even though he's say it's a sidetrack,
but he doesn't act like he doesn't dress Steve.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Jobs anywhere he was live. Hey, huh Steve Jobs correct.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yeah, So what do you think is things are going
with social media and guns and gun fluencing and all
that stuff. Both of you guys are in that world. Jeremy,
I think.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
It's all going down a pay for this, We'll give
you a snippet, but here's the rest. And I don't
know if that's the right way or not, but I
just feel like even on YouTube or well Instagram, let's
say Instagram, there's a they can follow you, but then
(05:43):
you can also solicit subscribe and I'll share, you know
more in depth videos about training, guns, hunting, whatever. And
I feel like that's forcing all the influencers to come off.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
More as a brand.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Oh yeah, you know what I mean, because then they're
selling themselves, not just giving you know, content out for
free because they love it. I didn't start an Instagram
because I wanted money.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I didn't.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
I was taking pictures of spaghetti and you know, in
my first you know, handgun, when I first got it
in cars, when I was building my you know cars,
And I know, like Santi is the same thing. He's
got multiple pages and he separated them, so I know
it wasn't about it can't be about that we all
started off. But now I think they're just spoon feeding
(06:36):
it to us.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Santi, what are your different pages? So they're different subjects?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Lift guns, right, So I have a couple of pages.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I have gun Dos, LC, Guns Network, Gun Friends, Guns Pictures, Rifle.
I used to have one of those called gun and
he had a one point six million followers. And then
I get you got suspended by Instagram a few years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Is it all Instagram based? Those are all Instagrams?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And then I have my own tactical Santi and my
personal Santi, which is completely different from what I usually
do with there life.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
He's on there with half a shirt on bottle. It
was like my there was flight life.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
There's like water sprinkling in and like sweat. Yeah, he's
out there living his best life.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So one point six billion followers on Instagram and now
the page doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Who doesn't know? So I tried getting it back. I
had to connect on Instagram back in the day. I
reached out a couple of times. That person was not
there anymore. I couldn't do anything for me, and I
was trying to reach out to all their alternatives.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And we lossd Our very first.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Yeah, you know a few months and that was something
that we were working on together because my page had
been struck a few of our friends. But we tried
hard to get that one, and it just it's like
it doesn't exist, it doesn't stay disabled.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's just he doesn't vanished.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So one time I went back into Instagram and I
just put it on search far as just curiosity, and
some random dude appeared with that name like some like
yeah like three. It had been gone so long that yeah, yeah,
so I mean you really sucked with that page.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I used to it for good.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I didn't like I did it for advertising as well,
but I promoted a bunch of my friends there just
to help them out grow their social media's as well.
I still do with my pages. I don't make money
off of them. I just you know, help people I
care about and also, uh, you know, get free amo.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, because that's something. Yeah, what do we talk about?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Earlier?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I wanted to post at four o'clock and I always
call you when I'm gonna post, and we were outside
and forgot, you know, miss hut window. You know, but
I was, I was having fun. But it's you know.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Is there?
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I mean, see, do you how does that affect you?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Guys?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
When you think about you built this thing up and
then it just goes boop, that's gone, Like with the
thought there the.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Keep going, well, no, you keep going, you keep pushing.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, so I think it. It depends, right, if it's
your personal brand, like like, for instance, if you were
to get your what the kicks count kicked you know,
boot it, that would you know, that would be devastating
because like you basically depend on that one page. Right,
if I was to get any of my other pages booted,
like gne for instance, it would kind of be like
it would be bad, but it'll be upsetting, But it's
(09:30):
not the end of the world. Like I can ask
to have other pages. I can make another one and
grow it again. But growing your own brand, and nowadays
on Instagram for instance, is.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
So hard in this industry for sure, because we're so Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So it's not just because it's tougher, is because they
have they have our account so suppressed, like you have
to type up the whole entire name of the account
in order for you to come to the shadow Man is.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Right, it's real.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
It's really a lot of a lot of different platforms too. Yeah,
I just I want to get into that because that's
that Yell's world. But you want to talk about what
we've been doing the last couple of days, Absolutely, all right,
it's super fun. So you guys are down here for
a CCW safe media event, and most media events, you
(10:15):
guys have both been to them. We go out in
the range, we shoot a bunch of guns, we shoot
a bunch of AMMO. This one, I deliberately, as we
talked through, I said, you know, I don't think we
need to even need to go out in the range.
Because this is all about what happens. It's it's a
media event, as they said in there for a product
that they hope you never use, right, which is kind
of crazy.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
And come to find out, this might be the best
way to market that kind of product because we all
know about them. But it really hit home these last
two days.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
So we put you guys through self defense scenarios and
people watching this and watch our stuff No first person Defender.
We ran five in really a day and a half.
What'd you think, man? What'd you guys think?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I felt it was so.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I usually do stairs type type of things every once
in a while, but nothing like this. This were different
types of scenarios like there will put you like in
your house, Like, what will you do if this happened
in your house?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
What would this?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
What would happen if you get a fender vendor? What
will happen if you have at your friend's house and
you know some random dude that you don't know it
might be one of your buddy's friends or comes in
and you know you can't just pull your gun and
shoot them, right, Like, There's so many things that go
through your head and to analyze that situation, to where
am I able to use my gun? Is this like
(11:43):
you know, like is that the right move? How can
I de escalate this situation? Or what what can I
do in order to you know, not to rely on
deadly force.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
You guys both had some moments this week, some some
really like wow, that was really cool. Also some kind
of weak. We all had so much fun because we
know each other. Yeah, there was some fun like laughing
around stuff too. Sont you first one? I was the
bad guy, yeah, and you were very much like, yeah,
no problem, bro, I'll bring you inside. Kind of I
would say, like feigned compliance, like yeah, no problem. And
(12:17):
of course you're a good shooter. You probably you practice
all the time, you can draw, you could shoot. Because
of that, you decided, okay, I'll feign compliance because I'm
gonna give myself an opportunity to draw and pull on.
And it was kind of like before I knew it
as the bad guy, there was a gun on my face.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah. Yeah, well we all have about a lot of phones.
We talked about the thumb the way home, all right,
yeah talk.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
There was another thing that you know, like in that
specific scenario, I got too close and that's something that
we always talk about in scenario training. It's like you
have to keep your distance, looked at the waistline of hands.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
You know, I think I put my hand on your shoulder.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, you kind of.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Got they go buddy and put me And now that
when you did that, I'm like, what I do?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You knew you crossed. I knew. I was like, okay,
well I could have.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I was expecting you, like literally draw your gun and
put it against my like my tie on my ribs.
I was litally waiting for something. You didn't do it.
So I'm like, okay, I have a chance. Right, So
I pretended that I was looking for my keys, and
I drew my gun and turned around and named the
gun at you. And you I don't know if I
call you off guard. I knew I know you because
of experience. You were expecting me to do that.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, I knew you were gonna I knew you were
sure all but I was as a bad guy when
we have to do this on the scenario train, like
I was a bad guy who didn't know you. I
didn't know you carry You're very concealed true, so true
to the character, being true to the character, like, hey,
bad guys don't assume. If I assumed you were armed,
I wouldn't be trying to muscle you and hold you up.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Ruse.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I'm like just a dude. So like I was surprised
that you didn't shoot me because you spun around and
stuck the gun on my face, and I was I
flinched because I'll go here it comes.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Like, yeah, you tensed up. It was good. Yeah, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I honestly don't didn't think you deserved to die, like
I felt like, you know, you're control. I took back control,
like I said, is my last resource. Like if I
can control the situation, if you would have put your
hand or go to your waistline and you would have
been lit up, but you didn't.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You hold your hands.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
You started walking away, and I held my gun out
and point at you while you were walking away. So
I waited for you to, you know, until we get
a safe distance and then the cool scenario. So I
don't think there was I mean I could have legally,
I can get away with it, but do I really
want to do that? Maybe not, you know, like I
don't want to live in there.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
That's that's a theme for this, right we had we
had ones where they were the bad guy was a
bad guy, and we had ones where that control that
role player was actually not a bad guy. And what
we had some mixes of folks Jeremy shooting people who
maybe weren't a bad guy.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
First of all, talk about that four out of six
of us shot the guy that was not supposedly a
bad guy. Yeah, let me break it down for y'all
those at home. Chris Serno was adamant and and other
Chris will call you know, Chris Cunningham. They were like, Hey,
I want you all to live in these roles, you know,
(15:23):
I want you to put yourself and just really like
you said, stay true to character. So it was a hey,
you're in your house, sitting on your couch. This is
the only room that you're you know, you're able to
maneuver in, and we're gonna call you know, live let
let let's go. So in my head, it's like, all right,
(15:44):
I live in a state where I don't have friends
or family.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I don't have my kids in that state.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
They yeah, no friends, bro, Those calls those guy though, Yeah,
but they get you in trouble. And so you know,
we're sitting on the couch and it. So it's funny
because earlier in the day I asked, kJ, you're gonna
be a bad guy today and he was like, nope, not,
I'm just running today. And I'm like, okay, because you know,
(16:10):
obviously I wanted to, you know, light him up if
I could, you know, we can do some.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Get them, yeah, a little double tap peeping, but uh.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
No, sitting on the couch and all I started hearing
was footsteps and I didn't know, but I didn't all
I all I can remember is it was a guy
in a hoodie with his hands in his pocket coming
into my front room and all he said was, man,
it's cold out there. I didn't wait two point seven
seconds before I lit him up, and I felt and
(16:39):
if you ask anybody, you'll probably when they when they
put it on, you'll see I go over and move
his hand out of his pocket and it ended up
being his phone. So again I shot the supposed good guy.
But he was in my house and I didn't give
him a chance to explain why. But I'm sure some
of the viewers would think the same. They're in their
(17:00):
house and somebody walks in, are they in it? And
I I asked you to, so you don't have to
come here and go through the mindset and you know
the double you know, thinking back and double taking.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Did I do the right thing? If somebody walked into your.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Living room you didn't know, and you knew your doors
were locked and nobody else was there, what would be
the questions you ask or what what what would the
situation look like to you.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I'm glad you said that because part of the the
point of this is to just help people to start
thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
The mental side is crazy because.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
People will listening and watching this will say, I'll just
shoot them. I'm justified, I'll shoot them. I'm like, it's
my castle, castle doctrine. I live in a right and
then and a lot of people did. It was a
difficult situation, but maybe consider other things. I want shoot them,
like that's like very social media comment, Right, We'll just
(18:00):
shoot his ass? Yeah, well, how abouts just go who
are you? And I really did think you guys both
you hopped up, you drew your gun and put it.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
That's where I have a gun out well, and that's
what I laid in bed. That's what I talked to
Chris after the fact, and the mental side when she
was talking through scenarios. I know I'm good. I know
I'm good with my weapon and the weapons that were using.
And if you carry or the one that's sitting on
your nightstand, that is your go to I knew, and
(18:31):
I drew. I beat him to the draw if he
did have a gun. Yeah, so I could have talked
my way out of that situation without really putting my
life in danger if I wanted to. But there was
no way to take cover in there, and I would
have felt more comfortable getting distanced.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah, you were. You guys were kind of ten ten
feet sort of trapped in there.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
So that's my only that's my only knock that I
think maybe I would have if I could have backed
around the couch or you know, got around the table
and created some distance. Because we all know, even if
you didn't have a gun, if you just wanted to lunge,
he can be there. That we've proven that. That's why
the one second draw is so important.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Santi. If you have the gun up, sites are on
bad guy, you're touching the trigger, maybe you're into the trigger.
How quickly can the bullet hit him? I don't know
about thousand feet per second and ten feet right like
like it's just it's a movement of.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Yeah, that's what that's what takes me to jail break splits, yeah,
right and more.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
If I'm just I if I'm in my trigger, like,
if I'm in my trigger guard, usually I just keep
my finger off my trigger right, just because I don't
want to risk it. But I I'm able to put
my finger back in trigger and fire without it within
a point two point one eight from And.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I'm not saying that to pick on anybody, but it
is kind of a if he makes a move and
you see a gun coming out, you have shots. I
promise you you have shots on target before he can
do anything. Now, it's not a guarantee he doesn't return fire.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So to my defense, to our defense, this guy, she's
literally just walking to our house. You know, I'm not
picking on you, No, no, no, I get it. But what I'm
saying is he walks into the house with his end
of his pocket. He could have a gun in his pocket.
He doesn't need to draw, he could just shoot us
from his pocket.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
That that is true. That's fair. I don't you know
what I'm saying, Like that's a good clob all right.
I got back about that at dinner to night.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
But he could have shot us through the pocket.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Well, that's true. He could have been shot it from
the top. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
And also like like they said, it was supposed to
be like a like a you know, like a kid
who especially who is running.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Around the neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah, you don't know exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
We don't know what exactly who it is.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
He might have been like some dude that got the
wrong address just started walking in or Airbnb wrong address
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, it could have right, just wrong.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
It just it just you know, bad plays, bad timing,
you know what I'm saying, Like, how can I know?
It's it's also like for me to make this split decision.
We did that distance as to somebody that I'm not expecting,
I'm not you know, like out of somebody that I
don't know with the hind in the pocket. How much
it's so much like to digest in such a little time, how.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Much of it being your house and really putting yourself
in the mental of it being your house made that
decision more you know happen, Like what made you make
that decision? How much was based of it or how
much of it was based on it being your house,
all of it?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
But that was a big deal for everybody. We got
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we're back, all right, Let's talk about the wildest scenario
of this, Well, I have my opinions, Jeremy, but what
(24:14):
do you guys think the wildest scenario, the toughest one
was I plead the.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Fifth well, I don't think you did.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
When he's when he's based on your thing, go ahead,
I don't go ahead and tell him okay, hear me out.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
I could plain hear me out.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Hear me out.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
And I'm talking to you all as my friends and
not as my legal advice.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
And also, look, this is practice, this is training. We
want people to have mess ups and try stuff and whatever.
This is the time to do it right now.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Go he's making it seem like I messed up? Did
mess up? I don't think. Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
We all right, go ahead, I'm gonna set it up right.
The you're a passenger. You just pulled into a liquor store.
Your friend is driving, so that's all we know. So
they call action. I'm in the passenger side doors open,
her door's open. We get out to go into the store,
(25:17):
and you hear three gun shots. It was two or
three gun shots. And then the person comes out of
the door with a gun in his hand, and he's
telling me, hey, I'm the owner of this store. I'm
the owner of this store. There's somebody inside with a gun.
My instinct is to draw my gun. I told my
(25:38):
the person that was driving, hey, take cover. I'm gonna
check it out. At the end of the day. I
don't know if the guy the owner is actually the owner,
if he's hit, but I'm going into the liquor store
to neutralize, to neutralizes. Listen, well, here's here's my thing.
If you could just see that the owner that fell out,
(26:01):
that had the gun in his hand, that said somebody
is inside shooting, is away from the door. So if
I turned my back to that door to render aid
to him, my thought process is there's still a bad
guy in there that could come out with cash and
a gun in hand and shoot me in the back.
So my instinct was to go neutralize the threat, or
(26:22):
just at least see if the threat ran out of
the backs, whatever the case maybe is. I was gonna
be nosys sue me.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I was gonna be no.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
You didn't do it wrong, I know, but no. So
when I go in, it was just wild. It was
I guess nobody else ran in.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
No one else ran in store.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Everybody nobody. I'm thirsty and I like, I like what
I like? Yeah, no, we came for a reason. I'm
going I heard that burbot.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Uh No, So I run in, I clear the liquor store,
and in the peripheral, in my peripheral, I see said
owner holding a gun to my friend telling her to
get in the car, and he's now attempting to kidnap
my friend. So mind you. This whole time, I don't
know that this wasn't a ploy. I think that he
(27:10):
tricked me and was like, oh, and he's actually the
bad guy. So I run outside and as he's trying
to get into the car, I shoot him. He returns fire.
He hits me one time. I neutralize the threat.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
He get bystander hit.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
We'll get it out the bad guy.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yo.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Yeah, mind you we're talking about this is the coolest thing,
and I really want you all to take it home.
He did hit an innocent bystander because he was shooting
his gun as he was falling down. He hit the
owner of CCWSA, who is a in the forehead, who
isn't an amazing human being, and he took it like
(27:47):
a champ. Hit him right in the forehead. And then
continued to stay out there, play and roll and you know,
be there for everybody else. So again, an amazing person.
But so whole time, this whole situation goes down, I
really thought that he tricked me. I go inside, I
come out, I neutralize the threat. I get handed to
(28:09):
call the cops.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
She's safe. I hand her my phone. Boom.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
We call in and kJ gets up and he goes,
that was not what was supposed to happen. Now, I
was actually a good guy. And I said, well, then,
why the hell did you try and kidnap my friend?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
What did he say?
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Huh?
Speaker 4 (28:23):
He was like, well, nobody expected you to go in,
and you ran up on me so fast. He said,
you got by me so fast and believed what I
said so fast that.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
You were just like, yeah, stay right there, and I
ran in with.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
The one scenario in five times eight forty scenarios we
say we're not doing a gotcha thing. We're not doing
like yeah, it was the one where kJ, I think went,
you know what, I'm a wing. I think we're just
gonna go off off script right now.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
I think he did it because I shot him so fast.
In the last scenario the day before so I have
my own opinions on that, But no, it was awesome
because I missed the opportunity to really take in that
scenario because everybody else, I guess, was not so quick
to enter or believe and they you know, they all
(29:17):
move different. And that's what I loved about this whole
thing is you got to see four guys and four
girls all approached these situations completely different, and you got
to watch them in real time. But I guess I
was the only one that was like, oh, yeah, you're
the owner, gullible with hell and ran in Jerry.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Else is pointing the gun at the owner most of
the time, but I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I did for a little bit.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
I went in and I pointed, like because I was
double checked as soon as I went in, I'm thinking,
is he nope, he's not, so I clear and come
out and you know so.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
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check it out the super short Voodoo three to nine
rifle scope. You know, we can all improve on our shooting,
and we have range Ready Studios where we teach people
(30:31):
how to shoot even gooder. Some people say better, I
say gooder. Range Ready Studios dot Com. We have pistol classes,
we have rifle classes. We can help you become the
best shooter possible. You'd be safer, more competent, and just
better at the range. So go check it out. Range
Ready Studios dot Com. We had a really great moment
(30:53):
today in the shoot house, which was an interesting scenario,
and you're gonna have to describe what happened. You're you're
in your friend's house. We kind of teased this earlier.
This is one of the scenarios. You're in your friend's
house waiting for your friend. Your friend is upstairs taking
a shower, and someone walks to the front door.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
So I was just sitting on the couch right just
minding my own business. And then some guy just storms
in the front door, just calling my friend's name, all
like amped up. And you know, usually when somebody comes
into another person's house, like they introduced themselves, right, you
can actually see like, oh hey, what's up. Well are
you We're trying No.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
He was just like.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Ryan, well are you?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
And I was like, yo, who are you? What are
you doing here? What do you need? Like he's sticking
a shower?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
So I stood up because this guy just literally storming
into the house. I followed him and I started talking
to him like hey man, what do you need, Like
anything I can help you?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Bah blah.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I don't even know exactly what I said, but I
started to establish a conversation with him, and.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
He was just facing back and forth. He was really
amped up, like he really He's like, you dude, just
slapt with my girlfriend.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Oh lah.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
He's like I'm gonna kill him. And I'm like, look, bro,
you gotta chill out. I know it sucks, but you
have to understand like this, this is not worth it,
you know, like you know, like this just go outside.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It was very good, and all of them kind of
like hey man, it's cool. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
The most laid back person. Ever, it's I just.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I don't want I don't really want to use my gun, bro,
you know what I'm saying there, So I kept from
you know, trying to de escalate the situation. He kind
of put his hand on the gun, and I'm like, dude,
there's no need for that, you know. Like I still
didn't draw. I still didn't. I just kept my hands
up like this. I'm like, yo, you gotta chill, let's
go outside. I suck about it, and he's like, no, man,
and then he drew his gun and patting his hand.
(32:39):
I'm all right, look, I get it. I'm gonna go
all right.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Like hands up, and he's like, I'm gonna walk out.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I understand, like there's no need for this. And then
he's like, get the flout of here. So I started
walking out. I'm all right, cool, I'm out. I'm just
gonna go, and he started following me. He kind of
stayed there for a little bit. I went around the wall,
worked towards the sofa where we were at like the room,
and then once I cleared, I drew my gun, turned around.
I took a knee to kind of you. So I
(33:07):
took a knee and I waited till he cleared that
corner and he had he still had his honey, the
gun in his hand, and I just shot him twice
and he fell down. So I approached him. He still
had the gun in his hand, but he was injured,
so I told him to drop it. Obviously I was
pointing at him, and that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Then. Yeah, you know Auntie wickt wig Bro.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
So, guys Jerby you are, you're a shooter. You're also
a guy who loves custom guns. Santi, you're a shooter,
you're head of a shooter and an instructor and all that.
Despite all that, it's almost like that kind of doesn't
matter in these scenarios. I am I right or wrong?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
It only I mean, I feel like the only advantage
we had was we know how to draw, and you know,
we practiced that. But other than that, I mean, it
didn't change the scenario. You still have to have mental capacity,
be willing to talk to people and be understanding of
(34:11):
the surroundings. You can have whatever gune, whatever training you want,
there's still an aspect that's missing. Will it make you
a better shot if you have to take the hard shots,
if you have to get on a knee and shoot
a guy from fifteen yards through the room, you know
what I mean, absolutely sure. But in most of these
you're within seven yards. So technically we had no advantage.
(34:33):
I don't think we did situational awareness, maybe because it's
a different thing.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
We always say. This is like a thinking game of
trying to de escalate it, trying to talk your way
out of it. Try to also looking for your chance,
your set of Fine, man, I'll leave the house. And
as soon as you walked out of one room into
another room and the wall is concealing, that's when you drew. Yeah,
he didn't just stand there out in the open and draw.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Especially because he had his gun in his hand, which
would have you and I could have drawn. I could
have drew my gun like right in front of him,
and it had like like a wall like with a door,
like I can hide. But I just didn't feel like
that was the right place.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Some people will say, oh, you have to you can
conceal yourself, you can, you know whatever. I'm like, I
don't think that was. I didn't want to esk any
things so quickly.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
You got to make that call for yourself, so not
just that, like.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
You were also saying, like how you know practicing other
range and competition stuff like that does make you better
with the tool that you're using. But you know, it's
like training any sports, right, You go to practice, you
juggle the ball, you you for your quarterback, you throw
the ball a thousand times, so when it comes to
game time, that just becomes second nature, right, But the
actual mind that the actual decision making.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
You really don't train well.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Going to the batting cage is different than going and
hitting against a real picture in a game going into the.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Driving I was just about to say.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
That hitting balls, I'm driving this.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Driving range, I can't.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Yeah, put me on the golf course and two white
claws in and I'm horrible.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, damn.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Like laws freshing, I would say, the the biggest thing
that I took from the whole situation is getting to
debrief after everyone really messed with your psyche because you
hear not just if your decision was good or bad,
not bad, but you know, I mean you're talking through
(36:31):
what your other options would have been. You're hearing so
many options, and then you walk into another situation and
your mind is scrambled and you can't say that that
made it any worse, because real life is like that,
you're gonna leave work, you're you're upset because of work,
or you're tired because you're been at work, you're arguing
with one of your friends, and you can't you know,
(36:52):
you know, your car's got a flat whatever. Your brain
is gonna be jumbled going into all these real life situations.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I because we talked about like, well, you're.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Your kids and your work and your whatever.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, crush.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
And I just think that we used that as a
crutch and we were like, you know, maybe you know,
we should wait to debrief till after or you know,
we're thinking we just let's just get through them. But honestly,
I think that really set the tone for reality. Yeah,
and I love the way we did it.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
So do you got any takeaways or any thoughts?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, definitely the aftermath. There's a lot of things that
go on that goes on afterwards. I was always taught you,
I don't talk to the police, you know, wait for
your lawyer right from the hood. But yeah, just just
wait for the just way for the lawyer. But in
cases like you know, sometimes the lawyer would don't won't
(37:46):
get there if you're have insurance, like, they won't get
there like what twenty four hours maybe, so you're gonna
have to spend the night.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
In jail in order for that to happen.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Or you can just tell them the just like the
top of the Iceberger, I just tell them enough to
get you out, but then go full specific when your
lawyer gets there.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Yeah, and they're gonna press you for specifics, but you
don't have to do that correctright, God I'm saying I
ain't saying nothing. It's kind of it's adversarial. It may
not be helpful. Yep, you could, you could say a
little bit. That's the bad guy. I want to press charges.
His weapon is there. I'd like to talk to a lorder.
Speaker 4 (38:25):
I like them, right, yeah, this is why we're here,
that's you know. And then again not oh, I'm not
speaking to y'all. It's a hey, this is what I remember.
This is what happened, you know, is the bare minimum.
He's there, he's down.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Say a little bit because they're gonna say, really, what
else happened?
Speaker 2 (38:44):
And they're gonna they're gonna fish it.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
It may not be that they're trying to it's not
at all, but they're just they're just like they're like,
because that's what you do when you're interviewing, really what
else happened?
Speaker 1 (38:55):
But I also think like you also have to be
careful with what you say because like, if you say
some specifics wrong that can actually be held against you.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Later you can hear what happened, right.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
We had some of that, So basically the wording of
how you say things, he can save you. Instead of like, oh,
yeah he was wearing this, this and that, oh but
he wasn't right, he could be like, well, I think
he was wearing this. I'm not sure. I can't remember correctly.
But that could also like get you out of a
you know, you know, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Chris said, it's like, why are you gonna make up stuff?
I think it was this?
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I was thinking that It's just I'm not really sure. Yeah,
I don't know, And then when you do recall, it
doesn't look like you're trying to change your story.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
It's crazy.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
The kJ incident or the liquor store incident with me,
that was one of the only times that Chris came
up and asked us for details right of what happened
right then, and it had just happened. And luckily I
was able to give her all the answers that I
knew were correct in the moment, but at the minute
(39:58):
I walked away.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I second guessed myself. Yeah, I was right.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
I went back and I even asked for video so
I can make sure I went and look and see
what kJ was wearing, you know, to make sure I
gave her the right info. But that's how quick you
can answer something and then really doubt it the minute
you walk away, like, oh.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
It isn't even it's not even that.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
It's like you might feel like, for instance, in that
scenario with the friend's house, I felt completely under control.
I felt good right, like I didn't feel like I
was amped up, like I was a little bit, but
I didn't. I felt like I was under control. And
she was asking me the same questions. And she asked
me what he was wearing, and I see everything green,
but he wasn't wearing everything green. And then I saw
the think he was like, he had a great sweater
(40:38):
and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
And some.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Ugly and some ugly shoes, so.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
What's he wearing? I know some ugly shoes.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I know that I'm one with the police once he
got on. I don't know, some ugly shoes.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
And you know, if you said that, I'd probably say
he's probably right, probably noticed the shoes.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I do first. I noticed when I walk into a room.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
You guys have to come back and do some first
person defender.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yes, I'm super down.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
All right, good next season. Yeah, it'll be lots of fun. Yes,
thanks for being on with.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Us, guys. Thank you all right.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Awesome, thanks for listening, thanks for watching. We'll see you
guys next time on gun Talk Nation.
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