In This Hour:
-- Ryan Muckenhirn, from Vortex Optics, joins Tom in his appreciation of the .338-06 cartridge. They talk about why they gravitate to "orphaned" cartridges and how to shoot super lightweight rifles.
-- Is there a "perfect" scope for hunting rifles? Of course not, but there is a category of scopes that combine practicality with reasonable size and weight.
-- The Ruger RXM pistol was designed for self defense and fun, but at least one shooter now uses it for competition.
Gun Talk 05.18.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Ryan Muckenhirn, from Vortex Optics, joins Tom in his appreciation of the .338-06 cartridge. They talk about why they gravitate to "orphaned" cartridges and how to shoot super lightweight rifles.
-- Is there a "perfect" scope for hunting rifles? Of course not, but there is a category of scopes that combine practicality with reasonable size and weight.
-- The Ruger RXM pistol was designed for self defense and fun, but at least one shooter now uses it for competition.
Gun Talk 05.18.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Ruger Light Rag Security three eighty's easy to shoot
and easy to wreck, small enough to carry concealed or
in a purse, big enough to absorb recoil. Learn more
at Ruger dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey, welcome back to Gun Talk. Tom Gresham here. Easy
enough to get a hold of us. Just give me
a call at eight sixty six Talkgun or Tom Talk Gun.
Pretty simple. Now you know I've been sharing the news.
I did this incredible thing. I drew a moose tag
for Northern Idaho this year. It's a four percent chance
of getting this tag, and I got it the first
year by Drew for this thing, which really ticks people off.
(00:38):
That again, I am the guy that pulled a desert
big horn sheep tag the first year I apply to Arizona.
So I have that talent for ticking off all of
my friends. Well, I was just the other day. I'm
listening to this podcast, watching this podcast from Vourtext Nation.
You're the optics people, and there's a guy there talking
about the three thirty eight out six that's Mike Caliber.
(01:01):
That's my cartridge I'm going to use Brian Moose, And
I said, we got to talk about this. So Ryan
Michaelhern joins me right now from Vortex Optics, from the
Vortex Nation podcast, ran, how long have you had your
three thirty eight on six.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, it's a funny story, and thanks for having me on,
and thanks for all the listeners tuneing in. I bought
that rifle, I believe, in two thousand and nine with
the express intent excuse me, twenty eleven, with the express
intent of killing a Minnesota moose when I was a
resident of Minnesota, Okay, And unlike you, I do not
(01:33):
have the Midas touch with tag gross And I'm the
only boy I know that didn't pull that tag before
they shut that hunt down in twenty thirteen. So it's
it's been rolling around in the safe for a number
of years, a little over a decade, and it's had a
couple of moves with me. And this is the year
I think that it sees the field.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
This is the every year, this is the year, right, Yeah,
all right, but yours is actually a quite unusual and
kind of rare rifle. Describe what you got.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, So I have a weatherb Mark five super Big
game Master, which is if you look at the lines
and the weights and measures of the rifle effectively what
we would know today as a Mark five ultra light
okay and factory chambered gun in three thirty eight off
six a square well weather.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
It was one of the what maybe maybe two, maybe
there might have been a third in their companies that
chambered for the three thirty eight off six a square
In the blink of an eye that it was actually
out there. It was made of Sammy spec cartridge. It
is a factory factory cartridge. But they tried it and
unfortunately nobody bottom and so everybody dropped it like a
(02:51):
hot potato.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Indeed, and my my hunting partner was the one who
had owned it originally. He bought it new back in
the early two thousands with the intent of hunting planes
game in Africa because he didn't didn't necessarily want a tote,
you know, full size three seventy five or you know,
a three thirty eight win Meg in which he's going
(03:14):
to effectively emulate the performance values exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But but you do it with a little bit less
recoil because you're shooting a little bit less powder and
the weight of the powder charge of course factors general recoil.
You get what what do you figure about one hundred
hundred and fifty feet per second less than the three
thirty eight win Meg.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, I suppose it depends on the loading. And so
right now I'm shooting the two hundred and ten Great
Barnes TTSX and I'm moving moving it along at a
very respectable twenty seven fifty sweet and yeah I can.
I can bump it up a little bit higher, and
then of course at the top end of the charge,
the three thirty eight windbag will pull away. Of course,
we've got more powerful out there to work with. But
(03:55):
you know, it is nearly apples to apples when when
you're looking at these too on paper.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Okay, you do, I know, you do. You're you're a
real serious gun guy. You know the ins and outs
of this. You do understand how goofy we are you
and I to do this because I mean, you've got
to be a reloader. Now you got to make your
own Ammo. You got to you know, basically we're back
to it being a wildcat because you're not going to
find any factor, AMMO. And for me, honestly, that's kind
(04:25):
of part of the fun of when I pull it out,
people go, what is that I tell them. They still
don't know what it is, and you get to explain it.
It's like, I just like the weird stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah, it's fun. You know, it's a romantic cartridge, and
it really is a sensible one too. And to your point,
the rolling of your own so to speak, and handloading
ammunition is that adds a great deal of appeal and
allure to the rifle, and especially when you're using it
and hontingwood, it certainly elevates the experience. I think, all right, help.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Me to spell the most common myth about the three
point thirty eight on six because when you tell me
about they go, oh, yeah, that'd be really good woods cartridge,
and you sally, okay, that part's true. But by saying that,
you're actually saying that it's not good for shooting something
that's further out there. Not true?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Right, Well completely, I'm true. Yeah. So again, the numbers
speak for themselves. And I know you were shooting some
acubonds out of yours. I'm shooting the tip TSX from
Barns out of mind. Both of these bullets, and especially
the acubond appreciator of really outstanding ballistico efficient, which is
not uncommon for you know, two hundred to two hundred
(05:35):
and twenty five green thirty three caliber projectile. Right, and
once you breach you know that that twenty six fifty
to twenty seven hundred foot per second mark. You you
move that cartridge and it's it's you know, exterior ballistic
capabilities into a really really adept long or well medium
(05:55):
to longer range.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because now we're enter the wheel. What
is long range? But honestly four hundred even realistically, you
could make this a five hundred yard gun.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Oh handily, absolutely, yep.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Okay, So that brings me to what you do in
your day job. Let's talk about optics. What'd you put
on your rifle? And talk for a second about the
ability that we have these days with a cartridge like
this of either holding up if you have stadium lines
or dialing up to make those shots.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Sure. So on that rifle is currently it's now a
legacy model. We replaced it with the next gen last year,
but it's the Viper HS two and a half to ten,
perfect and perfect. I've been yeah, I've been a modest
magnification user for as long as I've used rifle scopes,
and so prior to shooting, you know, almost exclusively vortex.
(06:48):
I was a big fan of Leopold's three and a
half to ten and they're two and a half to eight,
some of the finest optical systems out there. And you know,
of course, when I got here then this marriage was
perfect on the rifle right and features a pretty slick
little radical. It's just called our deadhold BDC, so bullet
drop compensating radical, and so beneath the center intersection of
(07:11):
the crosshairs are three stadium lines plus the top of
the heavy post that give the shooter a reference for downrange.
And you can look at each one of these lines
like a separate zero if you will, because it will
correspond to a yardage.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
You know what's weird about this, as you and I
have not talked about this, I have on my two
the one I used last year was a loopho four
and a half to fourteen with the BDC radical, and
on my three thirty eight out six I've got a
two and a half to eight with the BDC radical.
In essence, basically get the same thing that you have
in terms of magnification. And let me just say for
(07:48):
those who say, well, it's only eight power, or it's
only ten powers. Okay, look wait, if it's ten power
and you got a moose at five hundred yards, it
looks like the moose is at fifty yards. Can we
just all agree on that?
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah? And you know, that's an interesting I think it's
kind of a cultural phenomenon. And I see this with
optics a lot, you know, and especially with newer shooters
getting into well maybe not newer shooters, but season shooters
getting into new aspects of shooting, be it long range
competition like PRS or NRL, or a younger generation getting
(08:23):
into you know, the vast array of spectacularly capable production
firearms that are on the markets now. A strong tendency
is to over magnify for what I feel is fear
of missing out. And if I look back, you know,
eighteen years ago, when I probably started taking you know,
(08:45):
shooting a bit more seriously than the thirteen fourteen year
old boy version of me, the first thing I did is,
as you know, I put together this coyote rig with
a six to twenty four on it because I thought
I needed it. And then experience will tell you that
magnification can often be the antithesis of success depending on
how you're hunting and wear. And you're also lugging around
(09:07):
a big heavy piece, yes, yes, And you and I
share an affinity for flyweight rifles. If they could make
them four pounds, I buy. And I like that very trim,
no nonsense package. You know, don't need a ton of
magnification because to your point, exactly, when you think about
(09:29):
ten X, pick a target, pick a distance, five hundred
yard moose looks to you through your optic like your
naked eye seeson at fifty Yeah, and you know you
can resolve a tremendous amount of detail at that and
certainly make an ethical shot in the field with it.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, without a doubt, I think. And the other part
of it is that people who haven't hunted a lot
may not realize this or haven't thought about it. If
you've got to scope, crank up to eighteen or towrn
your twenty four power, and you shoot a deer or
whatever it is four hundred yards and you now need
to make a follow up shot, he's not where he
was before and you can't find him. Yeah, yeah, he's
(10:07):
just w You're trying this with a soda straw as
far as your field of view out there. All right,
let's the first. Because you mentioned the lightweight rifles, people say, well,
you know, those things just don't shoot. And I'm looking
at my targets and going, well, you know, so far
my little bit flyweight rifles shooting three corps of an
edged groups with these big old hank and bullets. But
(10:27):
here's where we get into the interesting talk. It's different.
You have to actually know how to shoot these off
a bench, don't you.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Oh? Yes. Driving a lightweight rifle is a kin to
driving a fine Italian sports car. It's got a lot
of horsepower, but it's so responsive that the smallest inputs
into that system show up downrange on your paper and
really is a large group, and of course recoil goes
up and oftentimes to mansion scale down right. So you're
(10:57):
left with this very petite, nimble roomstick of a gun
that punches like ali and so you have to you
have to respect it, and you've got to know how
to drive it. And it's very, very different than grabbing
onto a full featured, you know, multi axis adjustable stock
system that has a big bag rider front on it
(11:18):
and a heavy barrel that that's very forgiving to shoot
for contract.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And you don't put a little bit of light touch
on it the way you might with a real heavy rifle.
You actually have to hold on to the son of
a gun. Yeah, you know, and people go, well, that's
not how are you going to get the most accuracy. Look,
I'm shooting big hawking bullets and I'm shooting a moose.
If I can get this thing to shoot a nanche
one hundred yards, I am just happy as.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
A clan absolutely. Yeah. You know, understanding too the design
and tent or the spirit of the rifle in the
first place. Right, So you're shooting a Forbes Ultra light
arms rifle, and you know, mel set out to build
that rifle for the the alpine or mountain or backcountry
hunter in mind, where the likeli of needing a third
(12:02):
or fourth follow up shot was probably slim. And so
why waste the weight and mass in the barrel or
in the stock, right, make this thing minimal dimensions. The
idea behind it is you carry it all day, hopefully
you shoot it once. You know, we've often equated a
heavy barrel as a guarantee to greater accuracy, and it's
simply not true. What it can do for you as
(12:25):
a shooter, though, is give you something that's a little
more thermally tolerant. So we input heat into it, from
friction to that bullet going down the bore. The hotter
they get, they move into this semi plastic state and
things can open up.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And it also gives you some mass out there, and
that makes it not more accurate, but it makes it
more shootable, easier to hold on target.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
You know another great mountain rifle that I love to
run as a Kimber mountain ascent. So four pounds thirteen
ounces without a scope on it and six pounds two
and a half loaded and slung, and it'll shoot like
a house of fire for three rounds. Number four we
break that minute of angle handily, and then number five
is further out.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Now you're a minute of mountain.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
And this is something that if you are going to
get into one of these flyweight rigs, this this is
a concession that you'll make. But you know, as practical
shooters and practical hunters, we understand that at the fourth round,
you know, if we were so lucky that our target
of opportunities stood by while we missed the first three.
(13:30):
You know, krudos, right, but the likelihood is that thing
is scoot into the next county. Uh, and it's going
to it's going to be an increasingly more difficult and
statistically less probable impact.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
So exactly, hey, Ryan, tell people where they could hear
and watch your podcast, please you bet?
Speaker 5 (13:48):
So.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
You can find us on all the major podcast outlets,
whether that's Spotify, Apple Music. You can see us on
YouTube too. We also film all the podcasts as well,
and that's Vortex Nation podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Perfect, very very good. It's nice to find a kindred
spirit who is so twisted the way I am.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
What wonderful the pleasure and honor is mine?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
All right, all right, thanks much, I appreciate that. All right,
don't go far, gud Dog'll be right back.
Speaker 6 (14:18):
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(14:40):
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Speaker 4 (16:21):
Hey Tom, Dave's faulting from handgun combattings.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I don't know if you realize it, but not only
have you informed the gun community, you've saved a bunch
of lives out there and we cannot thank you enough.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
So continue.
Speaker 10 (16:33):
Good luck, partner, All right?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Thinking about now, the days are getting longer and warmer,
and depending on where you are in the country, it's
summer now. It was thirty six degrees and all my
deck this morning, but it's going to hit eighties sometime
next week. It's weird. That's what happens out here in
the mountains. I like to give you the weather reports
from the mountains. By the way, as we enter the summertime,
(17:03):
concealed carry gets to be a little bit more problematic
because of how we dress in the winter. It's easy.
You got a big sweater on, you got a coat,
you got different layers on. You can can see a
darned or anything. So what do you do? Do you
make changes in what you carry? What kind of gun
(17:23):
you carry? Do you make changes in how you carry?
What kind of holest are you used? Or where you
carry different cartridges, differre calibers. I keep hearing from people,
not an avalanche, not a flood, just a trickle of
people who are moving to smaller cartridges. And these are
(17:47):
intelligent people, who ballistically savvy people, I would say, who
are now carrying three eighties The Smith and Western Bodyguard
two point zero stunningly small, really nice pistol, and it's
in three eighty. Yes, yes, yes, I know all of
the things that people say about three eighties. You know,
(18:09):
you have the typical thing of you know, the gruff
old instructor says, Yeah, if anybody ever shot me with
a three eighty and I found out about it, I'd
be really ticked off. That's really clever, except that if
you go shoot them into ballistic jelasine and test the
three eighty with modern loads against nine millimeter with modern loads,
(18:31):
you'll see there may be an inch or two difference
in penetration, not much. Obviously, three eight has a lot
less recoiled and I think that's one of the reasons
that some people really like them. The slide on semiatus
is really easy to operate because the recoil spring is
(18:53):
not nearly as strong so it's a piece of cake
to work the slide, and there's really good defensive AMMO.
On the revolver side, you got the three twenty seven Federal,
but that's a lot, that's a real magnum load. So
a lot of people in their revolvers ol. Yeah. And
on your little bit snubnose revolver, when you go to
(19:15):
thirty two or three twenty seven, you get six shots
instead of five shots with a thirty eight, so you
get twenty percent more AMMO in your gun. And now
we have thirty two h and R ammo that is
actually very good defensive AMO. So I guess the question
is what, what, if anything, do you do in terms
(19:37):
of changing your carry? Do you go with the same
and look, I understand it's probably maybe I'll be equivocating because
I'm having a little debate with myself on this right now.
Is it smart to stay with the same rig all
the time? If you say that's where I carry, and
I always have the gun in the same place, and
(19:58):
I always have the same gun, you know how to
operate you Okay, got it? If that works for you,
that's great. I don't do that for maybe two reasons,
maybe three I sometimes change guns. Honestly, sometimes it's just
because it's because I want to try something different. I
(20:19):
have a lot of different firearms and I want to
carry something different. I don't know why, just just do.
I practice with a lot of different guns. I know
how to shoot a lot of different guns. You know,
I've got tens of thousands of rounds going through a
lot of different guns in gunfighting schools, guns I Thunder, Ranch,
(20:40):
Stick Academy, on and on on. Sometimes it's a revolver.
Most of the time it's a semiato. I don't usually
carry a revolver as my primary personal preference. You do
what you want to do. I guess all I would
say is that the practice is the main thing, achieving
(21:02):
and maintaining competency. What is competency with your carry gun? Well,
certainly it's the ability to draw in fire. But do
you practice drawing from concealment? You know, most people don't.
Most people go to the range. They got their gun
(21:23):
in their WoT if they could even go to a
range where they can draw and shoot. If they're going
to a lot of indoor ranges, they won't even let
you do that. But drawing from concealment. Wait, that's a
different deal, and you need to practice it. And you
know what, here's the other part, reholstering. When you have
concealment garments on, you gotta be really, really careful. Don't
(21:46):
get a shirt tail caught up in your gun. Don't
get anything a coat hung up in your gun as
your whole strength, because it can actually cause the gun
to go off when you didn't intend for it to.
So reholster reluctantly, slowly, deliberately, and even if you can't
go to arrange where you can shoot and draw and
(22:07):
shoot from concealment, you could do a dry fire and
work on that. Don't try for speed, try for smoothness
and safety. The speed will come. Hey, I'll be right back. Hey,
we're back anyways. Talking a little bit ago about Internet influencers.
(22:29):
Don't know if you saw this, you may be a fan.
You may be a follower of Luke Nichols, the host
of Outdoor Boys on YouTube. Outdoor Boys is a wildly
popular channel on YouTube. Their viewership or membership subscribers followers
have zoomed up in the last two years, hitting close
(22:52):
to fifteen million, and Luke Nichols just kind of a
very easy going, regular guy. He's the host there. Posted
a video yesterday he said he's out, He's leaving. That
was his last video, basically saying that since becoming a
(23:12):
YouTube sensation, he is concerned with how it's affected his family.
The notoriety of the popularity, the celebrity that comes with that,
with people thinking they have a connection, have a piece
of him, come up to him everywhere he goes, recognizing
his family because he puts his family on the air.
(23:35):
I don't really know how to react to that. I
certainly honored his decision and I appreciate him saying he's
going to put his family first. That's turned down a
lot of money. That's a lot of money to be
made from a channel like that. Anyway, I throw that
(23:56):
in case you missed it if you're a fan of
Luke Nichols and outdoor Boys. That just happened yesterday. And
let's go to the phones line. Three mikes with us
from Bobant, Mississippi.
Speaker 10 (24:06):
Hey, Mike, how you doing?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I am good?
Speaker 10 (24:11):
Review?
Speaker 5 (24:11):
For a year?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
It okay?
Speaker 10 (24:16):
I saw your show where they on gun Top where
they talked about the special they had where they invited
everyone down and it encouraged me to go buy one
because I was worn in another nineteen but I wanted
the mos. This didn't even use to play, so that
it was two hundred dollars cheap or so I got it.
I've got seventeen hundred rounds through it so far, zero malfunctions.
(24:38):
It uses all my glock, both the extended bags and
the seventeen and the fifteen rounders, plus the magpole mags
and also uses the ets mags. And I got two
USPSA matches with it and put a holist on top
of it in an O light weapons light and I
have actually moved it to my carry rotation.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Throughout the Ruger our XM pistol that came out. I
guess it shot show this year and it's a well
a group of fair if you will, between Ruger and
magpool with magpole making the grip the palmer frame. I've
shot it. I liked it. It was one of those
(25:22):
when I first put it in my hand, I thought, oh,
it feels a little bit big, a little bit clunky,
very glock like. Well, uh hey, it takes clock mags.
It's got to be a blue handle the clock mags.
But what was interesting to me was it took maybe
one magazine of AMMO shooting do it before I didn't
even think about it anymore. At that point, all I
thought about was this is a nice shooting pistol. But
(25:44):
I am really curious about you taking this and shooting competition.
This is not a competition, gun, No, it's not.
Speaker 10 (25:51):
But it performed jack one. It was excellent, flawless. I
actually took second in my division at the last match
we went to. It was a local match, it wasn't
national match. Yeah, that's and I'm truly impressed with it.
And I had to buy my daughter, my granddaughter, a
Walter TDPF because she doesn't like locks, and I put
(26:11):
her holosod on top of it. Well, now she wants
my ruger and I told her, no, you wouldn't let
me have your VP when I liked.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
It, So, uh, fight me.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
No, I know how that's going to go. It's your daughter.
She's going to end up with an RXm.
Speaker 10 (26:28):
Yeah, yeah, probably, I know how that works.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And look, they're so darn cheap. Why wouldn't you right, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (26:36):
Two hundred dollars cheaper than the nineteen mos. And I've
already got on the mailing list at Nagpole for when
the seventeen round frame and the twenty the block seventeen
frame comes out and the glock twenty six frame comes out.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Well, that was the part I was going to mention,
is that, you know, because it's got the you know,
they don't call it this fire control unit. Basically the
little insert part is the actual gun. They can have
different size grips and frames, So seventeen round, twenty round,
all the rest of it, and you still have your
saying gun. You're just buying grips.
Speaker 10 (27:07):
Yeah, And the people at the match they went nuts,
Oh can I shoot it? Can I shoot it? They
probably put two hundred rounds through it at the I've
been to two of them. The first match they put
about two hundred round of AMMO. They're at the second
one they probably put seventy five eighty.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
And so why don't use that You're not only using
it for a competition, but you made it your every
day carry gun.
Speaker 10 (27:27):
Made it my everyday carrier. Like I said, over seventeen
hundred rounds through it and zero malfunctions. And the grip
angle is just a little bit better so that when
you bring that dot up you know, with the glock
you sometimes have to chilke forward a little bit, yes, yes,
which I got used to it. But the minute I
picked this thing up, it was like shooting that Walter.
The sights come directly. There's no having to used little
(27:47):
kick thing either to get the dot to come in
a picture. The dot is perfectly aligned and the site's
co witness in their night sights.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
What you ask for, what you're actually saying, and believe
it or not, is that, Oh, they got the grip
angle right because they made it the same as the
nineteen eleven that John Browning invented.
Speaker 10 (28:05):
Right right, And you know this is the gun that
Glock should have sould started selling the public five years ago.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, and of course people are jumping all over there
because you know, I guess the patent or trademark whatever
ran out on the glock. So people are making clock
cloons and now they can do improvements in which I
think the RXAM is basically an improvement over that and
very modifiable, if that's a word. I this is a
great range report. This is perfect because I have recommended
(28:35):
this pistol to several people. We took one of those,
by the way, at our event and we put seven
thousand rounds through this pistol and I remember them telling
me I wasn't there, but they put seven thousand rounds
through one pistol without cleaning it and it kept running.
Speaker 10 (28:53):
That's what That's what encouraged me to buy it. That
YouTube video and now you have to under I'm a
glock fanboy. I've got six of them. I've got the
forty one to thirty five to seventeen nineteen and I've
got a forty two. It was just twenty one.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Was it hard for you to go away from the
glock and buy a Ruger?
Speaker 10 (29:17):
Well, I've got Ruger long gimes. I've got a Ruger
MPR five five six that I simply love. And uh,
I've always had Ruber rifles and I've got Bukoo's ten
twenty two's, So I love Ruger firearms. But that this
is the first Kingdom that come out with it other
than the Revolver, that I actually liked and was interested in,
(29:37):
and it's made me a believer.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Well, great range report, man, I mean you have put
it through the ringers, so you really know, Mike. I
appreciate you taking the time to test it for us
and to call in and tell us about it.
Speaker 10 (29:48):
Man, it's something I enjoy, trust me.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
There you go, all right, thank you for the call, sir. Wow, Uh,
that's pretty amazing. I really don't know what you need
to add to that. He's put it through the wringer,
put lots of rounds through it, made it his carry
guns as well as you in competition with it, the
Ruger rx M. Yeah, they really are that good. They're
they're really great pistols at one hundred five hundred bucks
(30:15):
now and if you shop around, I'm telling what you
can get it for. If you are a join us
to give me a hollow eight sixty six talk gun,
that'll certainly get you in here. I'm Don Gresham. We'll
be right back with more gun talk.
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Speaker 2 (32:51):
Okay, So this just happened, and this is huge in
and of itself. It's big, but it's even bigger in
what presents the Trump Department of Justice under Pambondi. The
Attorney General just announced a settlement on Friday where they're
(33:14):
going to no longer try to ban or support a
ban on forced reset triggers. This is from rare breed triggers,
which the ATF basically put out of business declared them
to be machine guns. These are triggers that you put
in your ar or other guns that allow you to
(33:36):
shoot faster. They're basically super fast cod of like a
bump stock. Deal right, and rare breed Triggers have spent
millions of dollars fighting this, and kudos to National Organization
for Gun Rights NAGGER, National Association of Gun Rights. They've
been fighting us. What happened was the DOJ said, okay,
(34:00):
we're not because they've been pushing us in defending us
in court and you know they've been sued by rare
breed triggers. And Pam Body said, yeah, we're out. We're
tapping out. We're just going to reach an agreement so
that they can make these triggers with some provisions. They say, okay,
nobody else can make them, and you have to agree
(34:21):
to basically defend your trademark or your patents on these
as part of the terms of the settlement. All the
FRT triggers that were seized, this is important. All the
triggers that were seized are taken as a result of
a voluntary surrender under the Biden administration, are going to
be returned to their owners. This is huge. And in
(34:44):
the process of this, wait for this, they got to
read this exactly. This isn't a quote a statement put
out by Attorney General Pam Bondy quote. This Department of
Justice believes that the Second Amendment is not a second
class right, and we are glad to end a needless
(35:06):
cycle of litigation with a settlement that will enhance public safety.
This is big, and you know it's big when the
gun control groups are losing their minds over this. Donald
(35:26):
Trump just legalized machine guns. Of course he didn't. These
are not machine guns. That's the whole point of the deal.
They never were machine guns. The ATF lied about it,
as the ATF has lied about so many other things.
The dismantling of the ATF is going to continue. The
Trump administration and the Apartment of Justice is going to
(35:49):
continue to tell the courts. Yeah, those lawsuits where we're
trying to get gun bands and we've been supporting that,
we're going to pull out of that. We're no longer
going to pursue this, and we're gonna let the challenges
go forward and win. Basically, they're backing off on gun
control at the Department Justice under Donald Trump. Number year
(36:13):
is eighty six to six talk. Gun Ben called in
out of Oklahoma. Hey Ben, you're on gun Talk.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Come several years ago. I found some poly copper bullets.
That's not what I was looking for. But uh, I
was looking for the solid copper lehigh defense bullets.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
But I couldn't write.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
The dealer didn't have. He just showed me these poly
copper bullets, so I tried them. They're fluted poly copper
bullets and uh never fired them until just recently did
my own ballistics test with it, right, and uh, I
was impressed with it, and that this bullet will feed
(36:57):
into certain three eighties that I have right, no other
three eighty We'll see. Well, now I can't find the bullets. Uh,
the polyicopper, it's ink poly copper.
Speaker 5 (37:10):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Some of them are called the ruger A r X.
But I'm just wondering if you knew anything about.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Them, and where I'm looking to see where I am
in the back. I remember those in the back of
my mind. I think somebody else is making those or
they got renamed.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Now are you looking for the bullets to reload? Are
you looking for loaded Ammo?
Speaker 4 (37:37):
Loaded Ammo? The cartridge?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Okay, I'm looking online right now. I'm just seeing if
I can find any for you here out of stock,
out of stock, so I'm seeing the same thing not available. Hey, Hey,
what let's do this. Let's put out the word. Can
you keep listening and I'll ask if anybody knows where
we can find those?
Speaker 4 (37:54):
Okay, I'll always listen to your show.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
I appreciate it. Let's see if we can find some.
I don't know where there might be some of these,
but we're looking for the inceptor RX loaded amber. Ben.
We'll see if we can get you an answer. You
just keep the listening. We'll see if we can run
that down for you. Trying to think of that was
Polly Case that made those for a while. It seems
(38:21):
like that concept had been around several different ways, and
there may have been poly Case or Polyamo. I'll see
if I can look it up. But you know, if
anybody else can look it up or they know, give
me a call. We'll help Ben out. See where you
can find these our numbers eight sixty six or talk
gun or Tom talkgun. We actually use these on a
pig hut in South Carolina and Ryan shot a pig
(38:45):
with this, but out of a rifle. I think it
was forty five to seventy. That thing went down like
you had dropped a house on top of it. I
was unprepared for how well it worked. Pretty cool stuff. Hey,
let me come back. Yeah you can a government surplus
rifle or pistol. Yeah, yeah, us government. Okay, let's go
(39:14):
straight to the phones palls with us out of Casper, Wyoming. Hey, Paul,
you got a story and we've got a short segment here,
so go for it. Please.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I know.
Speaker 5 (39:23):
My question short barreled rifles versus their fifteen pistols, and
they are eighty percent lowers. Okay, you tell me the
lawn now. It seems like it changes every day.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Well, air fifteen pistols are legal, and well, actually they're
all legal. The SBR requires that you comply with NFA requirements,
so you got to fill out the paperwork the same
as you would for a suppressor or a machine gun.
And there are some other requirements when you travel interstate
(40:02):
with an SBR that you don't have when you have
an AR fifteen pistol. You got to send a form
in to the ATF and let them know you're traveling.
So both of those are available, and a lot of
people get an AR fifteen pistol instead of an SBR
so they don't have to go through the rigor moreau
of registering a tax stamp two hundred dollar fee and
(40:24):
notifying ATF that they're going to be traveling out of
state with it. So that's where we are on eighty
percent lowers. That's still a bit in flux, but I
think we're getting our way out of that and I'm
not as up on that as on the other. Is
there any think in particular that you're wondering about on that?
Speaker 5 (40:45):
H that's it, and I want to give a shout
out to the ATF. My son or my step son
got in trouble and he had the gun with He
didn't use the gun for anything, but the court took
the gun. He told the judge that he didn't want
(41:09):
the gun destroyed, and the ATF got the gun and
he wanted me to have it. So I got the
gun from the ATF. AF guy was phenomenal. I mean,
he come from Cheyenne, brought me the gun and it
(41:32):
was unreal.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Well, I'll be darn well. That's good to hear. And look,
I appreciate you saying that because generally all we hear
is the negative stuff. You know, we all like to
complain about things because for somewhere weird reason makes us
feel good, and we tend to not share the positive story.
So I appreciate you doing that. Paul, Thank you, thank
you for the call on the SBR deal. I had
(41:54):
a thought last week about this deal where you have
to notify ATF and you're going to be traveling out
of date with an SBR, and I came up with
an idea of how to get rid of that requirement.
And so I call some smart people I know and
threw this idea out and we noodled it around and
came up with what we think maybe a workable plan. Now,
(42:20):
not going to tell you the details of it, because
that's as far as we've gotten so far. But we've
got to take it to the right people and get
some things done. But there's a possibility of getting the
rules changed. It's not really changing the rules. I'll get
into the more details as we get into it, but
(42:41):
getting it set up so that you can carry take
your SBR across state lines and not have to say mother,
may I and not have to notify atf because you're
going interstate with an SBR. I think there's a way
that we can make that happen. It's just a case
of getting to the right people to get the message
(43:03):
through to get it done in DC, and so we're
working on that. But it's just it's one of those deals.
I don't know if I was in the shower or
where it was, I just had to went wow, I
think we can get this done and verified it with
some people who know things know a lot more things
than I do, which is not a real high bar.
By the way. We'll see if we can get that done,
(43:24):
but I'll keep you posting on that. Hey, when we
come back and talk about buying a US government surplus gun,
rifle or handgun, also about one of the coolest competitions
out there.
The Ruger Light Rag Security three eighty's easy to shoot
and easy to wreck, small enough to carry concealed or
in a purse, big enough to absorb recoil. Learn more
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey, welcome back to Gun Talk. Tom Gresham here. Easy
enough to get a hold of us. Just give me
a call at eight sixty six Talkgun or Tom Talk Gun.
Pretty simple. Now you know I've been sharing the news.
I did this incredible thing. I drew a moose tag
for Northern Idaho this year. It's a four percent chance
of getting this tag, and I got it the first
year by Drew for this thing, which really ticks people off.
(00:38):
That again, I am the guy that pulled a desert
big horn sheep tag the first year I apply to Arizona.
So I have that talent for ticking off all of
my friends. Well, I was just the other day. I'm
listening to this podcast, watching this podcast from Vourtext Nation.
You're the optics people, and there's a guy there talking
about the three thirty eight out six that's Mike Caliber.
(01:01):
That's my cartridge I'm going to use Brian Moose, And
I said, we got to talk about this. So Ryan
Michaelhern joins me right now from Vortex Optics, from the
Vortex Nation podcast, ran, how long have you had your
three thirty eight on six.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, it's a funny story, and thanks for having me on,
and thanks for all the listeners tuneing in. I bought
that rifle, I believe, in two thousand and nine with
the express intent excuse me, twenty eleven, with the express
intent of killing a Minnesota moose when I was a
resident of Minnesota, Okay, And unlike you, I do not
(01:33):
have the Midas touch with tag gross And I'm the
only boy I know that didn't pull that tag before
they shut that hunt down in twenty thirteen. So it's
it's been rolling around in the safe for a number
of years, a little over a decade, and it's had a
couple of moves with me. And this is the year
I think that it sees the field.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
This is the every year, this is the year, right, Yeah,
all right, but yours is actually a quite unusual and
kind of rare rifle. Describe what you got.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, So I have a weatherb Mark five super Big
game Master, which is if you look at the lines
and the weights and measures of the rifle effectively what
we would know today as a Mark five ultra light
okay and factory chambered gun in three thirty eight off
six a square well weather.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
It was one of the what maybe maybe two, maybe
there might have been a third in their companies that
chambered for the three thirty eight off six a square
In the blink of an eye that it was actually
out there. It was made of Sammy spec cartridge. It
is a factory factory cartridge. But they tried it and
unfortunately nobody bottom and so everybody dropped it like a
(02:51):
hot potato.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Indeed, and my my hunting partner was the one who
had owned it originally. He bought it new back in
the early two thousands with the intent of hunting planes
game in Africa because he didn't didn't necessarily want a tote,
you know, full size three seventy five or you know,
a three thirty eight win Meg in which he's going
(03:14):
to effectively emulate the performance values exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But but you do it with a little bit less
recoil because you're shooting a little bit less powder and
the weight of the powder charge of course factors general recoil.
You get what what do you figure about one hundred
hundred and fifty feet per second less than the three
thirty eight win Meg.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, I suppose it depends on the loading. And so
right now I'm shooting the two hundred and ten Great
Barnes TTSX and I'm moving moving it along at a
very respectable twenty seven fifty sweet and yeah I can.
I can bump it up a little bit higher, and
then of course at the top end of the charge,
the three thirty eight windbag will pull away. Of course,
we've got more powerful out there to work with. But
(03:55):
you know, it is nearly apples to apples when when
you're looking at these too on paper.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Okay, you do, I know, you do. You're you're a
real serious gun guy. You know the ins and outs
of this. You do understand how goofy we are you
and I to do this because I mean, you've got
to be a reloader. Now you got to make your
own Ammo. You got to you know, basically we're back
to it being a wildcat because you're not going to
find any factor, AMMO. And for me, honestly, that's kind
(04:25):
of part of the fun of when I pull it out,
people go, what is that I tell them. They still
don't know what it is, and you get to explain it.
It's like, I just like the weird stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah, it's fun. You know, it's a romantic cartridge, and
it really is a sensible one too. And to your point,
the rolling of your own so to speak, and handloading
ammunition is that adds a great deal of appeal and
allure to the rifle, and especially when you're using it
and hontingwood, it certainly elevates the experience. I think, all right, help.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Me to spell the most common myth about the three
point thirty eight on six because when you tell me
about they go, oh, yeah, that'd be really good woods cartridge,
and you sally, okay, that part's true. But by saying that,
you're actually saying that it's not good for shooting something
that's further out there. Not true?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Right, Well completely, I'm true. Yeah. So again, the numbers
speak for themselves. And I know you were shooting some
acubonds out of yours. I'm shooting the tip TSX from
Barns out of mind. Both of these bullets, and especially
the acubond appreciator of really outstanding ballistico efficient, which is
not uncommon for you know, two hundred to two hundred
(05:35):
and twenty five green thirty three caliber projectile. Right, and
once you breach you know that that twenty six fifty
to twenty seven hundred foot per second mark. You you
move that cartridge and it's it's you know, exterior ballistic
capabilities into a really really adept long or well medium
(05:55):
to longer range.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because now we're enter the wheel. What
is long range? But honestly four hundred even realistically, you
could make this a five hundred yard gun.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Oh handily, absolutely, yep.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Okay, So that brings me to what you do in
your day job. Let's talk about optics. What'd you put
on your rifle? And talk for a second about the
ability that we have these days with a cartridge like
this of either holding up if you have stadium lines
or dialing up to make those shots.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Sure. So on that rifle is currently it's now a
legacy model. We replaced it with the next gen last year,
but it's the Viper HS two and a half to ten,
perfect and perfect. I've been yeah, I've been a modest
magnification user for as long as I've used rifle scopes,
and so prior to shooting, you know, almost exclusively vortex.
(06:48):
I was a big fan of Leopold's three and a
half to ten and they're two and a half to eight,
some of the finest optical systems out there. And you know,
of course, when I got here then this marriage was
perfect on the rifle right and features a pretty slick
little radical. It's just called our deadhold BDC, so bullet
drop compensating radical, and so beneath the center intersection of
(07:11):
the crosshairs are three stadium lines plus the top of
the heavy post that give the shooter a reference for downrange.
And you can look at each one of these lines
like a separate zero if you will, because it will
correspond to a yardage.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
You know what's weird about this, as you and I
have not talked about this, I have on my two
the one I used last year was a loopho four
and a half to fourteen with the BDC radical, and
on my three thirty eight out six I've got a
two and a half to eight with the BDC radical.
In essence, basically get the same thing that you have
in terms of magnification. And let me just say for
(07:48):
those who say, well, it's only eight power, or it's
only ten powers. Okay, look wait, if it's ten power
and you got a moose at five hundred yards, it
looks like the moose is at fifty yards. Can we
just all agree on that?
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah? And you know, that's an interesting I think it's
kind of a cultural phenomenon. And I see this with
optics a lot, you know, and especially with newer shooters
getting into well maybe not newer shooters, but season shooters
getting into new aspects of shooting, be it long range
competition like PRS or NRL, or a younger generation getting
(08:23):
into you know, the vast array of spectacularly capable production
firearms that are on the markets now. A strong tendency
is to over magnify for what I feel is fear
of missing out. And if I look back, you know,
eighteen years ago, when I probably started taking you know,
(08:45):
shooting a bit more seriously than the thirteen fourteen year
old boy version of me, the first thing I did is,
as you know, I put together this coyote rig with
a six to twenty four on it because I thought
I needed it. And then experience will tell you that
magnification can often be the antithesis of success depending on
how you're hunting and wear. And you're also lugging around
(09:07):
a big heavy piece, yes, yes, And you and I
share an affinity for flyweight rifles. If they could make
them four pounds, I buy. And I like that very trim,
no nonsense package. You know, don't need a ton of
magnification because to your point, exactly, when you think about
(09:29):
ten X, pick a target, pick a distance, five hundred
yard moose looks to you through your optic like your
naked eye seeson at fifty Yeah, and you know you
can resolve a tremendous amount of detail at that and
certainly make an ethical shot in the field with it.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, without a doubt, I think. And the other part
of it is that people who haven't hunted a lot
may not realize this or haven't thought about it. If
you've got to scope, crank up to eighteen or towrn
your twenty four power, and you shoot a deer or
whatever it is four hundred yards and you now need
to make a follow up shot, he's not where he
was before and you can't find him. Yeah, yeah, he's
(10:07):
just w You're trying this with a soda straw as
far as your field of view out there. All right,
let's the first. Because you mentioned the lightweight rifles, people say, well,
you know, those things just don't shoot. And I'm looking
at my targets and going, well, you know, so far
my little bit flyweight rifles shooting three corps of an
edged groups with these big old hank and bullets. But
(10:27):
here's where we get into the interesting talk. It's different.
You have to actually know how to shoot these off
a bench, don't you.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Oh? Yes. Driving a lightweight rifle is a kin to
driving a fine Italian sports car. It's got a lot
of horsepower, but it's so responsive that the smallest inputs
into that system show up downrange on your paper and
really is a large group, and of course recoil goes
up and oftentimes to mansion scale down right. So you're
(10:57):
left with this very petite, nimble roomstick of a gun
that punches like ali and so you have to you
have to respect it, and you've got to know how
to drive it. And it's very, very different than grabbing
onto a full featured, you know, multi axis adjustable stock
system that has a big bag rider front on it
(11:18):
and a heavy barrel that that's very forgiving to shoot
for contract.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And you don't put a little bit of light touch
on it the way you might with a real heavy rifle.
You actually have to hold on to the son of
a gun. Yeah, you know, and people go, well, that's
not how are you going to get the most accuracy. Look,
I'm shooting big hawking bullets and I'm shooting a moose.
If I can get this thing to shoot a nanche
one hundred yards, I am just happy as.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
A clan absolutely. Yeah. You know, understanding too the design
and tent or the spirit of the rifle in the
first place. Right, So you're shooting a Forbes Ultra light
arms rifle, and you know, mel set out to build
that rifle for the the alpine or mountain or backcountry
hunter in mind, where the likeli of needing a third
(12:02):
or fourth follow up shot was probably slim. And so
why waste the weight and mass in the barrel or
in the stock, right, make this thing minimal dimensions. The
idea behind it is you carry it all day, hopefully
you shoot it once. You know, we've often equated a
heavy barrel as a guarantee to greater accuracy, and it's
simply not true. What it can do for you as
(12:25):
a shooter, though, is give you something that's a little
more thermally tolerant. So we input heat into it, from
friction to that bullet going down the bore. The hotter
they get, they move into this semi plastic state and
things can open up.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And it also gives you some mass out there, and
that makes it not more accurate, but it makes it
more shootable, easier to hold on target.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
You know another great mountain rifle that I love to
run as a Kimber mountain ascent. So four pounds thirteen
ounces without a scope on it and six pounds two
and a half loaded and slung, and it'll shoot like
a house of fire for three rounds. Number four we
break that minute of angle handily, and then number five
is further out.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Now you're a minute of mountain.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
And this is something that if you are going to
get into one of these flyweight rigs, this this is
a concession that you'll make. But you know, as practical
shooters and practical hunters, we understand that at the fourth round,
you know, if we were so lucky that our target
of opportunities stood by while we missed the first three.
(13:30):
You know, krudos, right, but the likelihood is that thing
is scoot into the next county. Uh, and it's going
to it's going to be an increasingly more difficult and
statistically less probable impact.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
So exactly, hey, Ryan, tell people where they could hear
and watch your podcast, please you bet?
Speaker 5 (13:48):
So.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
You can find us on all the major podcast outlets,
whether that's Spotify, Apple Music. You can see us on
YouTube too. We also film all the podcasts as well,
and that's Vortex Nation podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Perfect, very very good. It's nice to find a kindred
spirit who is so twisted the way I am.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
What wonderful the pleasure and honor is mine?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
All right, all right, thanks much, I appreciate that. All right,
don't go far, gud Dog'll be right back.
Speaker 6 (14:18):
For over eighty five years, Brownell's has been your one
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Speaker 1 (14:48):
So what the heck is that car being that turns
heads and leaves you grinning. The Ruger LC car being
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is whatever you want it to be. Get your range gun,
your truck gun, or an awesome home defense option. Mostly
the Ruber LG garbines just plain old shooting fun.
Speaker 7 (15:08):
Make sure your friends bring their own AMMO. It's that
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Speaker 1 (15:12):
Check it out at Ruber dot com.
Speaker 8 (15:18):
Pistols are more difficult to shoot than you think. Get
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At Range Ready, we deliver world class training to improve
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Speaker 9 (15:48):
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Speaker 4 (16:21):
Hey Tom, Dave's faulting from handgun combattings.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I don't know if you realize it, but not only
have you informed the gun community, you've saved a bunch
of lives out there and we cannot thank you enough.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
So continue.
Speaker 10 (16:33):
Good luck, partner, All right?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Thinking about now, the days are getting longer and warmer,
and depending on where you are in the country, it's
summer now. It was thirty six degrees and all my
deck this morning, but it's going to hit eighties sometime
next week. It's weird. That's what happens out here in
the mountains. I like to give you the weather reports
from the mountains. By the way, as we enter the summertime,
(17:03):
concealed carry gets to be a little bit more problematic
because of how we dress in the winter. It's easy.
You got a big sweater on, you got a coat,
you got different layers on. You can can see a
darned or anything. So what do you do? Do you
make changes in what you carry? What kind of gun
(17:23):
you carry? Do you make changes in how you carry?
What kind of holest are you used? Or where you
carry different cartridges, differre calibers. I keep hearing from people,
not an avalanche, not a flood, just a trickle of
people who are moving to smaller cartridges. And these are
(17:47):
intelligent people, who ballistically savvy people, I would say, who
are now carrying three eighties The Smith and Western Bodyguard
two point zero stunningly small, really nice pistol, and it's
in three eighty. Yes, yes, yes, I know all of
the things that people say about three eighties. You know,
(18:09):
you have the typical thing of you know, the gruff
old instructor says, Yeah, if anybody ever shot me with
a three eighty and I found out about it, I'd
be really ticked off. That's really clever, except that if
you go shoot them into ballistic jelasine and test the
three eighty with modern loads against nine millimeter with modern loads,
(18:31):
you'll see there may be an inch or two difference
in penetration, not much. Obviously, three eight has a lot
less recoiled and I think that's one of the reasons
that some people really like them. The slide on semiatus
is really easy to operate because the recoil spring is
(18:53):
not nearly as strong so it's a piece of cake
to work the slide, and there's really good defensive AMMO.
On the revolver side, you got the three twenty seven Federal,
but that's a lot, that's a real magnum load. So
a lot of people in their revolvers ol. Yeah. And
on your little bit snubnose revolver, when you go to
(19:15):
thirty two or three twenty seven, you get six shots
instead of five shots with a thirty eight, so you
get twenty percent more AMMO in your gun. And now
we have thirty two h and R ammo that is
actually very good defensive AMO. So I guess the question
is what, what, if anything, do you do in terms
(19:37):
of changing your carry? Do you go with the same
and look, I understand it's probably maybe I'll be equivocating because
I'm having a little debate with myself on this right now.
Is it smart to stay with the same rig all
the time? If you say that's where I carry, and
I always have the gun in the same place, and
(19:58):
I always have the same gun, you know how to
operate you Okay, got it? If that works for you,
that's great. I don't do that for maybe two reasons,
maybe three I sometimes change guns. Honestly, sometimes it's just
because it's because I want to try something different. I
(20:19):
have a lot of different firearms and I want to
carry something different. I don't know why, just just do.
I practice with a lot of different guns. I know
how to shoot a lot of different guns. You know,
I've got tens of thousands of rounds going through a
lot of different guns in gunfighting schools, guns I Thunder, Ranch,
(20:40):
Stick Academy, on and on on. Sometimes it's a revolver.
Most of the time it's a semiato. I don't usually
carry a revolver as my primary personal preference. You do
what you want to do. I guess all I would
say is that the practice is the main thing, achieving
(21:02):
and maintaining competency. What is competency with your carry gun? Well,
certainly it's the ability to draw in fire. But do
you practice drawing from concealment? You know, most people don't.
Most people go to the range. They got their gun
(21:23):
in their WoT if they could even go to a
range where they can draw and shoot. If they're going
to a lot of indoor ranges, they won't even let
you do that. But drawing from concealment. Wait, that's a
different deal, and you need to practice it. And you
know what, here's the other part, reholstering. When you have
concealment garments on, you gotta be really, really careful. Don't
(21:46):
get a shirt tail caught up in your gun. Don't
get anything a coat hung up in your gun as
your whole strength, because it can actually cause the gun
to go off when you didn't intend for it to.
So reholster reluctantly, slowly, deliberately, and even if you can't
go to arrange where you can shoot and draw and
(22:07):
shoot from concealment, you could do a dry fire and
work on that. Don't try for speed, try for smoothness
and safety. The speed will come. Hey, I'll be right back. Hey,
we're back anyways. Talking a little bit ago about Internet influencers.
(22:29):
Don't know if you saw this, you may be a fan.
You may be a follower of Luke Nichols, the host
of Outdoor Boys on YouTube. Outdoor Boys is a wildly
popular channel on YouTube. Their viewership or membership subscribers followers
have zoomed up in the last two years, hitting close
(22:52):
to fifteen million, and Luke Nichols just kind of a
very easy going, regular guy. He's the host there. Posted
a video yesterday he said he's out, He's leaving. That
was his last video, basically saying that since becoming a
(23:12):
YouTube sensation, he is concerned with how it's affected his family.
The notoriety of the popularity, the celebrity that comes with that,
with people thinking they have a connection, have a piece
of him, come up to him everywhere he goes, recognizing
his family because he puts his family on the air.
(23:35):
I don't really know how to react to that. I
certainly honored his decision and I appreciate him saying he's
going to put his family first. That's turned down a
lot of money. That's a lot of money to be
made from a channel like that. Anyway, I throw that
(23:56):
in case you missed it if you're a fan of
Luke Nichols and outdoor Boys. That just happened yesterday. And
let's go to the phones line. Three mikes with us
from Bobant, Mississippi.
Speaker 10 (24:06):
Hey, Mike, how you doing?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I am good?
Speaker 10 (24:11):
Review?
Speaker 5 (24:11):
For a year?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
It okay?
Speaker 10 (24:16):
I saw your show where they on gun Top where
they talked about the special they had where they invited
everyone down and it encouraged me to go buy one
because I was worn in another nineteen but I wanted
the mos. This didn't even use to play, so that
it was two hundred dollars cheap or so I got it.
I've got seventeen hundred rounds through it so far, zero malfunctions.
(24:38):
It uses all my glock, both the extended bags and
the seventeen and the fifteen rounders, plus the magpole mags
and also uses the ets mags. And I got two
USPSA matches with it and put a holist on top
of it in an O light weapons light and I
have actually moved it to my carry rotation.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Throughout the Ruger our XM pistol that came out. I
guess it shot show this year and it's a well
a group of fair if you will, between Ruger and
magpool with magpole making the grip the palmer frame. I've
shot it. I liked it. It was one of those
(25:22):
when I first put it in my hand, I thought, oh,
it feels a little bit big, a little bit clunky,
very glock like. Well, uh hey, it takes clock mags.
It's got to be a blue handle the clock mags.
But what was interesting to me was it took maybe
one magazine of AMMO shooting do it before I didn't
even think about it anymore. At that point, all I
thought about was this is a nice shooting pistol. But
(25:44):
I am really curious about you taking this and shooting competition.
This is not a competition, gun, No, it's not.
Speaker 10 (25:51):
But it performed jack one. It was excellent, flawless. I
actually took second in my division at the last match
we went to. It was a local match, it wasn't
national match. Yeah, that's and I'm truly impressed with it.
And I had to buy my daughter, my granddaughter, a
Walter TDPF because she doesn't like locks, and I put
(26:11):
her holosod on top of it. Well, now she wants
my ruger and I told her, no, you wouldn't let
me have your VP when I liked.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
It, So, uh, fight me.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
No, I know how that's going to go. It's your daughter.
She's going to end up with an RXm.
Speaker 10 (26:28):
Yeah, yeah, probably, I know how that works.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And look, they're so darn cheap. Why wouldn't you right, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (26:36):
Two hundred dollars cheaper than the nineteen mos. And I've
already got on the mailing list at Nagpole for when
the seventeen round frame and the twenty the block seventeen
frame comes out and the glock twenty six frame comes out.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Well, that was the part I was going to mention,
is that, you know, because it's got the you know,
they don't call it this fire control unit. Basically the
little insert part is the actual gun. They can have
different size grips and frames, So seventeen round, twenty round,
all the rest of it, and you still have your
saying gun. You're just buying grips.
Speaker 10 (27:07):
Yeah, And the people at the match they went nuts,
Oh can I shoot it? Can I shoot it? They
probably put two hundred rounds through it at the I've
been to two of them. The first match they put
about two hundred round of AMMO. They're at the second
one they probably put seventy five eighty.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
And so why don't use that You're not only using
it for a competition, but you made it your every
day carry gun.
Speaker 10 (27:27):
Made it my everyday carrier. Like I said, over seventeen
hundred rounds through it and zero malfunctions. And the grip
angle is just a little bit better so that when
you bring that dot up you know, with the glock
you sometimes have to chilke forward a little bit, yes, yes,
which I got used to it. But the minute I
picked this thing up, it was like shooting that Walter.
The sights come directly. There's no having to used little
(27:47):
kick thing either to get the dot to come in
a picture. The dot is perfectly aligned and the site's
co witness in their night sights.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
What you ask for, what you're actually saying, and believe
it or not, is that, Oh, they got the grip
angle right because they made it the same as the
nineteen eleven that John Browning invented.
Speaker 10 (28:05):
Right right, And you know this is the gun that
Glock should have sould started selling the public five years ago.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, and of course people are jumping all over there
because you know, I guess the patent or trademark whatever
ran out on the glock. So people are making clock
cloons and now they can do improvements in which I
think the RXAM is basically an improvement over that and
very modifiable, if that's a word. I this is a
great range report. This is perfect because I have recommended
(28:35):
this pistol to several people. We took one of those,
by the way, at our event and we put seven
thousand rounds through this pistol and I remember them telling
me I wasn't there, but they put seven thousand rounds
through one pistol without cleaning it and it kept running.
Speaker 10 (28:53):
That's what That's what encouraged me to buy it. That
YouTube video and now you have to under I'm a
glock fanboy. I've got six of them. I've got the
forty one to thirty five to seventeen nineteen and I've
got a forty two. It was just twenty one.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Was it hard for you to go away from the
glock and buy a Ruger?
Speaker 10 (29:17):
Well, I've got Ruger long gimes. I've got a Ruger
MPR five five six that I simply love. And uh,
I've always had Ruber rifles and I've got Bukoo's ten
twenty two's, So I love Ruger firearms. But that this
is the first Kingdom that come out with it other
than the Revolver, that I actually liked and was interested in,
(29:37):
and it's made me a believer.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Well, great range report, man, I mean you have put
it through the ringers, so you really know, Mike. I
appreciate you taking the time to test it for us
and to call in and tell us about it.
Speaker 10 (29:48):
Man, it's something I enjoy, trust me.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
There you go, all right, thank you for the call, sir. Wow, Uh,
that's pretty amazing. I really don't know what you need
to add to that. He's put it through the wringer,
put lots of rounds through it, made it his carry
guns as well as you in competition with it, the
Ruger rx M. Yeah, they really are that good. They're
they're really great pistols at one hundred five hundred bucks
(30:15):
now and if you shop around, I'm telling what you
can get it for. If you are a join us
to give me a hollow eight sixty six talk gun,
that'll certainly get you in here. I'm Don Gresham. We'll
be right back with more gun talk.
Speaker 11 (30:35):
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Speaker 8 (31:38):
Pistols are more difficult to shoot than you think. Get
rid of those tired old habits dragging your shooting skills down.
At Range Ready, we deliver world class training to improve
your skills. You can relearn the basics of your gun,
become proficient, or elevate your teaching capabilities. Go to Range's
(32:00):
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Speaker 2 (32:51):
Okay, So this just happened, and this is huge in
and of itself. It's big, but it's even bigger in
what presents the Trump Department of Justice under Pambondi. The
Attorney General just announced a settlement on Friday where they're
(33:14):
going to no longer try to ban or support a
ban on forced reset triggers. This is from rare breed triggers,
which the ATF basically put out of business declared them
to be machine guns. These are triggers that you put
in your ar or other guns that allow you to
(33:36):
shoot faster. They're basically super fast cod of like a
bump stock. Deal right, and rare breed Triggers have spent
millions of dollars fighting this, and kudos to National Organization
for Gun Rights NAGGER, National Association of Gun Rights. They've
been fighting us. What happened was the DOJ said, okay,
(34:00):
we're not because they've been pushing us in defending us
in court and you know they've been sued by rare
breed triggers. And Pam Body said, yeah, we're out. We're
tapping out. We're just going to reach an agreement so
that they can make these triggers with some provisions. They say, okay,
nobody else can make them, and you have to agree
(34:21):
to basically defend your trademark or your patents on these
as part of the terms of the settlement. All the
FRT triggers that were seized, this is important. All the
triggers that were seized are taken as a result of
a voluntary surrender under the Biden administration, are going to
be returned to their owners. This is huge. And in
(34:44):
the process of this, wait for this, they got to
read this exactly. This isn't a quote a statement put
out by Attorney General Pam Bondy quote. This Department of
Justice believes that the Second Amendment is not a second
class right, and we are glad to end a needless
(35:06):
cycle of litigation with a settlement that will enhance public safety.
This is big, and you know it's big when the
gun control groups are losing their minds over this. Donald
(35:26):
Trump just legalized machine guns. Of course he didn't. These
are not machine guns. That's the whole point of the deal.
They never were machine guns. The ATF lied about it,
as the ATF has lied about so many other things.
The dismantling of the ATF is going to continue. The
Trump administration and the Apartment of Justice is going to
(35:49):
continue to tell the courts. Yeah, those lawsuits where we're
trying to get gun bands and we've been supporting that,
we're going to pull out of that. We're no longer
going to pursue this, and we're gonna let the challenges
go forward and win. Basically, they're backing off on gun
control at the Department Justice under Donald Trump. Number year
(36:13):
is eighty six to six talk. Gun Ben called in
out of Oklahoma. Hey Ben, you're on gun Talk.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Come several years ago. I found some poly copper bullets.
That's not what I was looking for. But uh, I
was looking for the solid copper lehigh defense bullets.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
But I couldn't write.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
The dealer didn't have. He just showed me these poly
copper bullets, so I tried them. They're fluted poly copper
bullets and uh never fired them until just recently did
my own ballistics test with it, right, and uh, I
was impressed with it, and that this bullet will feed
(36:57):
into certain three eighties that I have right, no other
three eighty We'll see. Well, now I can't find the bullets. Uh,
the polyicopper, it's ink poly copper.
Speaker 5 (37:10):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Some of them are called the ruger A r X.
But I'm just wondering if you knew anything about.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Them, and where I'm looking to see where I am
in the back. I remember those in the back of
my mind. I think somebody else is making those or
they got renamed.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Now are you looking for the bullets to reload? Are
you looking for loaded Ammo?
Speaker 4 (37:37):
Loaded Ammo? The cartridge?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Okay, I'm looking online right now. I'm just seeing if
I can find any for you here out of stock,
out of stock, so I'm seeing the same thing not available. Hey, Hey,
what let's do this. Let's put out the word. Can
you keep listening and I'll ask if anybody knows where
we can find those?
Speaker 4 (37:54):
Okay, I'll always listen to your show.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
I appreciate it. Let's see if we can find some.
I don't know where there might be some of these,
but we're looking for the inceptor RX loaded amber. Ben.
We'll see if we can get you an answer. You
just keep the listening. We'll see if we can run
that down for you. Trying to think of that was
Polly Case that made those for a while. It seems
(38:21):
like that concept had been around several different ways, and
there may have been poly Case or Polyamo. I'll see
if I can look it up. But you know, if
anybody else can look it up or they know, give
me a call. We'll help Ben out. See where you
can find these our numbers eight sixty six or talk
gun or Tom talkgun. We actually use these on a
pig hut in South Carolina and Ryan shot a pig
(38:45):
with this, but out of a rifle. I think it
was forty five to seventy. That thing went down like
you had dropped a house on top of it. I
was unprepared for how well it worked. Pretty cool stuff. Hey,
let me come back. Yeah you can a government surplus
rifle or pistol. Yeah, yeah, us government. Okay, let's go
(39:14):
straight to the phones palls with us out of Casper, Wyoming. Hey, Paul,
you got a story and we've got a short segment here,
so go for it. Please.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I know.
Speaker 5 (39:23):
My question short barreled rifles versus their fifteen pistols, and
they are eighty percent lowers. Okay, you tell me the
lawn now. It seems like it changes every day.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Well, air fifteen pistols are legal, and well, actually they're
all legal. The SBR requires that you comply with NFA requirements,
so you got to fill out the paperwork the same
as you would for a suppressor or a machine gun.
And there are some other requirements when you travel interstate
(40:02):
with an SBR that you don't have when you have
an AR fifteen pistol. You got to send a form
in to the ATF and let them know you're traveling.
So both of those are available, and a lot of
people get an AR fifteen pistol instead of an SBR
so they don't have to go through the rigor moreau
of registering a tax stamp two hundred dollar fee and
(40:24):
notifying ATF that they're going to be traveling out of
state with it. So that's where we are on eighty
percent lowers. That's still a bit in flux, but I
think we're getting our way out of that and I'm
not as up on that as on the other. Is
there any think in particular that you're wondering about on that?
Speaker 5 (40:45):
H that's it, and I want to give a shout
out to the ATF. My son or my step son
got in trouble and he had the gun with He
didn't use the gun for anything, but the court took
the gun. He told the judge that he didn't want
(41:09):
the gun destroyed, and the ATF got the gun and
he wanted me to have it. So I got the
gun from the ATF. AF guy was phenomenal. I mean,
he come from Cheyenne, brought me the gun and it
(41:32):
was unreal.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Well, I'll be darn well. That's good to hear. And look,
I appreciate you saying that because generally all we hear
is the negative stuff. You know, we all like to
complain about things because for somewhere weird reason makes us
feel good, and we tend to not share the positive story.
So I appreciate you doing that. Paul, Thank you, thank
you for the call on the SBR deal. I had
(41:54):
a thought last week about this deal where you have
to notify ATF and you're going to be traveling out
of date with an SBR, and I came up with
an idea of how to get rid of that requirement.
And so I call some smart people I know and
threw this idea out and we noodled it around and
came up with what we think maybe a workable plan. Now,
(42:20):
not going to tell you the details of it, because
that's as far as we've gotten so far. But we've
got to take it to the right people and get
some things done. But there's a possibility of getting the
rules changed. It's not really changing the rules. I'll get
into the more details as we get into it, but
(42:41):
getting it set up so that you can carry take
your SBR across state lines and not have to say mother,
may I and not have to notify atf because you're
going interstate with an SBR. I think there's a way
that we can make that happen. It's just a case
of getting to the right people to get the message
(43:03):
through to get it done in DC, and so we're
working on that. But it's just it's one of those deals.
I don't know if I was in the shower or
where it was, I just had to went wow, I
think we can get this done and verified it with
some people who know things know a lot more things
than I do, which is not a real high bar.
By the way. We'll see if we can get that done,
(43:24):
but I'll keep you posting on that. Hey, when we
come back and talk about buying a US government surplus gun,
rifle or handgun, also about one of the coolest competitions
out there.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!