In This Hour:
-- Bill Sack, of the Second Amendment Foundation, details a string of Second Amendment victories in the courts.
-- Despite internet memes that the venerable 1911 pistol is only for old guys, this semi-auto stil impresses, but only if you take time to actually shoot it.
-- Is it possible that the 10mm semi-auto pistol is the modern equivalent of the .357 Magnum revolver?
Gun Talk 08.24.25 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Bill Sack, of the Second Amendment Foundation, details a string of Second Amendment victories in the courts.
-- Despite internet memes that the venerable 1911 pistol is only for old guys, this semi-auto stil impresses, but only if you take time to actually shoot it.
-- Is it possible that the 10mm semi-auto pistol is the modern equivalent of the .357 Magnum revolver?
Gun Talk 08.24.25 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:14):
He was the first and he's still the best. For
thirty years, Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on
all things ballistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection, be
part of it, Paul, Tom Talk gun Now.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Here's Tom.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Welcome again to gun Talk. Tom Gresham here. Of course,
if you want to join us, it's the easy as always,
give me a call it Tom Talk gun Now. We
talk about guns and new stuff and old guns, and
hunting and self defense and all the rest of it.
We have to we have to talk about politics, and
we have to talk about the Second Amendment. We have
to talk about the battles that we're fighting. And one
(00:54):
of the things that I find is that a lot
of people haven't been at this as long as I have.
They don't understand what has gone before and where we
are now. And so whenever we get a win, I said,
but we didn't get enough of a win. I'man like
I want to say, you don't understand. I mean, thirty
years ago when I started this radio show, we thought
(01:15):
we were just going to slowly lose the Second Amendment,
and we are winning so much. I thought, well, we
had to talk about some of these wins. And a
bunch of them just really recently, we got Bill sach
Is joining us. He is the director of legal operations
at the Second Amendment Foundation, and Bill, you and I
were talking about this. No matter what you post online,
no matter what you say, people go, oh, yeah, but
(01:37):
we didn't do this or we didn't do that.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, hey, Tom, look, it's great to
be here.
Speaker 6 (01:44):
You know, people, whenever your rights are infringed to any degree,
it's painful and it's frustrating, and we certainly empathize with folks.
But yeah, it's certainly important to keep the longer rock
of history in mind and keep these things in context
and remember that things are good and rather well for
the movement as a whole right now, and as we're
going to talk about, just within the last few months,
(02:05):
we've seen a whole stack of wins.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
I mean, just in this last week, I've gotten several releases. Oh,
look what happened in New York, Look what happened in California.
Oh my gosh, So all right, you made the list.
This is what you work on, this is your specialty.
Where do you want to start? Just kick it off?
Speaker 6 (02:21):
Sure, So I'm going to start with probably the biggest
thing that people have been talking about for like the
last two months, which is the news that in the
big beautiful bill that just passed through Congress and that
the President's signed, is that a number of categories of
firearms that were part of the NFA had their tax
burden reduced from two hundred dollars to zero dollars. So specifically,
(02:43):
we're talking about short our rifles, short ow shotguns, silencers.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
And any other weapons.
Speaker 6 (02:49):
Aow's the tax burden, the tax stamp that's required for
those things to either make one or transfer one one
from two hundred dollars to zero. Now, well, we certainly
we're hoping that they would be removed from the NFA
entirely in the process of signing of that bill.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Ultimately, that didn't.
Speaker 6 (03:08):
Happen, But what it did open the door for is
a piece of landmark litigation that we filed soon not
long thereafter, in a case called Brown VTF. In these
transtrict of Missouri challenging the remaining NFA requirements for those items.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
So we are.
Speaker 6 (03:26):
Now suing in federal court with a massive Second Amendment
coalition to get SBRs, SBS's silencers taken out of the
NFA completely, to get rid of the remaining registration compliance
requirements there. And that is a massive landmark thing that
even six eight months ago, no one in the two
(03:48):
A space really thought was viable, and right now it's
looking really darn viable.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
So we didn't get everything we wanted, but it opened
the door to be able to come in and get it,
just a different way, coming in a different door.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Not only that, but probably a better door. You know,
when we.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
Fix these things through tax reconciliation bills like we saw
with the Big Beautiful Bill. The risk that we have
there is that it can be undone by a future Congress.
If we get an issue like this settled in the
courts and we get a determination that this part of
the statute is unconstitutional, well that's permanent.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
So it's actually a better deal.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
For the American people to get this thing dealt with
in the court system and get it tossed out on
its butt is unconstitutional than it is to have it
dealt with on a tax reconciliation bill.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
So there is a bit of a silver lining.
Speaker 6 (04:38):
Look, would we have loved for it to be dealt
with in the bill as a preliminary matter.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Sure, But there's still a lot to be excited about.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
You know.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
Challenging the NFA in federal court is a big deal,
and we think that we're on real strong legal footing
with this new challenge called Brown v.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
ATF.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
All right, so give me another win, all right, another
exciting win. So in our they're eighteen to twenty handgun
purchase ban, So that's our We have two of them.
One is called Reese v. ATF.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
And in the Rees case, we have a federal circuit.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
Court determination saying that the federal ban on young adults
from being able to walk into any gun store and
buy a handgun is unconstitutional. Now, what's particularly exciting about
this win is it creates a circuit split with another
one of SAP's cases called Brown, Different Brown. We have
two different Brown cases now against the ATF. And we
(05:31):
just recently filed for a petition for circiari in the
Brown case with the Supreme Court. So what we're hoping
now is that the Supreme Court will take this issue
up and vindicate the rights of young adult Americans all
over the country who have, you know, a full panepley
of constitutional rights, including their second memor rights, so they
can go my handgun to defend themselves in their family
(05:52):
from a gun store, just like anybody else can, you know,
between the ages of eighteen and twenty. So that's that's
a big win and you know, hopefully a win that's
going to get bigger yet if the Supreme Court chuse
to take that issue up.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
So that's an exciting one.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Okay, you ready for the next one, yes, sir, all right.
Speaker 6 (06:10):
So the next one that we think is super exciting,
and you alluded to this in your introduction coming out
of California, and the Ninth Circuit is our win in
the win case.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
This was our case.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
This is another staff case challenging the what we call
the one gun in thirty rule, the one a month
gun rationing rule, where California had created a statute that
said you can only buy one handgun or semi automatic
center fire rifle, or combination of the two per month.
So we got that struck down. We got a unanimous
Ninth Circuit opinion in our favor, which was huge in
(06:43):
its own right, and then the Department of Justice out
in California elected not to appeal, so the thing didn't
go to the Ninth Circuit en bonc. So we actually
have a win out of the Ninth Circuit that the
en Bonc court did not step in an overrule, which
is historic in its own right. So we have the
mandate issued in that case just a few days ago.
(07:05):
So the California gun rationing rule is gone to put.
So that is a very exciting win. In another staff case,
that one coming out of California.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
One of those that just makes you smile. You think, wow,
certain Ninth Circuit and this is not like up for
a piana. It's over. This thing is done.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
That one is cooked.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Okay, all right, excellent, all right, So move us to
another venue.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
All right, We're going to go to another venue. So
this one is in the Tenth Circuit. So this is
in a case called Ortega v.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Grisham.
Speaker 6 (07:32):
And in that case, the Tenth Circuit struck down New
Mexico statute which created a seven day waiting period to
purchase firearms. So this was a case that was brought
by Mountain State Legal Foundation and our friends at the NRA,
and they did a great job and got this seven
day waiting period struck down as unconstitutional under the Second
Moment because there is no historical tradition of making people
(07:56):
arbitrarily wait a certain amount of time in order to
extra as the rights.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
So very exciting when that one was just this week.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
All right, So what's going on? And we'll get to
a couple or others in just a minute, But there's
something going on. The landscape has changed, or the texture
is different in terms of these decisions. The US Justice
Department is deciding not to appeal some of these cases. Basically,
they're pulling back and trying to push gun control. Are
we in a new era? Now?
Speaker 6 (08:23):
Well, I mean I think the error really shifted, you know,
back in twenty twenty two when the.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Bruin decision came out.
Speaker 6 (08:31):
So the Brewin decision changed the landscape entirely by you know,
informing the circuit courts that were out there that had
misinterpreted the Heller decision and we're doing the Second Amendment
analysis wrong. It corrected them and said like, hey, guys,
you know, the proper analysis is not this two step
interest balancing nonsense, but is a history and tradition test.
(08:54):
And as soon as that opinion came out, it started
this new litigation sprint. And what we're seeing is that
the fruits of the labor of the sprint that we've
been on for the last twenty four months or.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
So are starting to bear fruit.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
We're seeing that these cases, which do take a while
to percolate through the federal court system, are now moving,
you know, once they go through motions to dismiss and
motions for preliminary injunction and then summary judgment and then
they end up on appeal and remanded and back on
appeal again, that we're finally starting to see these cases
hit the circuit courts on the merits and we're getting
(09:29):
the decisions that we were hoping for all along.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
And then I think you're right too, you know, like
on the.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Federal side of the House, we have seen a much
different standpoint when it comes to the administration and how
it is that they're treating a number of the Second
Amendment related cases that involve the federal government. And then
I think, you know, we are seeing the feeling that
the Supreme Court is, well, they've been somewhat reticent to
(09:57):
take on cases like within the last term or too.
It does appear that they have indicated that they're interested
in taking it at least some Second Amendment cases in
the next.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Term or so.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
And so I think what we're seeing is some state
departments of justice, like California, for example, are trying to
read the tea leaves a little bit here and are
getting a little gun shy on their appeals, like in
the win case, you know, not wanting to poke the
bear and risk these cases go up in front of
the Supreme Court. They'd rather kind of take their loss
(10:28):
and go home rather than risk making the loss a
worse one for them.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Got you. Okay, we're talking with Bill Sackey's the director
of legal operations for the Second Amendment Foundation. And Bill,
we just had something happen out in New York where
those of us who do not live in New York
are now going to be able to apply for and
get a conceio carry permit there. That's crazy.
Speaker 6 (10:47):
Yeah, that's another great one. And you're right that one's
you know, breaking news essentially. I think it's like forty
eight hours old at this point. So that case is
called Higbee James, and that comes out of the Northern
District of New York, and that case struck down the
fact that New York's carry permit regime doesn't provide for
non resident permit applicants. For the Second Amendment and the
Bruin case guaranteed that every American has the right to
(11:11):
carry a fire or amon their person for self defense.
And that right does not start and stop at state lines.
So while unfortunately we don't have something like national reciprocity
just yet, what we do have is an increasing judicial
trend to the availability of non resident permits. That so
(11:32):
thus far, the way these things are shaking out is
it does look that look like the need to have
a permit is something that the Supreme Court is willing
to uphold for the time being. But those permits have
to be shell issue, and they have to be available
to residents and non residents alike. They can't just be
for people that live in state, because then the rest
(11:53):
of the country is forbidden from carrying in that state.
And if it's a constitutional right, it's a federal right,
not a state right.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
All right, pick out a couple of more if you would, sure,
So one other.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
Key one that I think is worth mentioning is the
Road case out of California.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
That it's another California case.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
There's a Ninth Circuit decision in that case, and that
one struck down California's AMMO background check system. That one
also struck down on Second Amendment grounds. There is no
Second Amendment history and tradition in this country of regulating
ammunition sales such as they require a background.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Check, so that system also was kicked.
Speaker 6 (12:32):
I believe that there is the possibility that there might
be on bonk petition for that one.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
I think that one's remained to be seen, but.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
For the time, Peeing Panel decision in Roads striking down
AMMO background checks.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
So that is another very exciting one.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
And then I guess I'll throw one more at you guys,
just to round things out.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
And this is another staff case. So I'll close with
one of our cases that we're excited about.
Speaker 6 (12:55):
So this was the case also out of California called
Junior Sports Magazine. Case was actually a First Amendment case.
So this was about the ability of well anyone, but
in this case Junior Sports magazine to advertise firearms where miners.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Might see the advertising.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
So California passed a state law that said that you
can't advertise firearms anywhere that it was reasonably foreseeable that
a minor might see them.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
The problem is it is such a first I mean,
just such a violation of the First Amendment. It's crazy,
right right.
Speaker 6 (13:31):
So you know, not only can the state not tell
you what legal things you can can you can you advertise.
But they're not only legal to advertise and to sell
these things, but they're constitutionally protected right.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
To sell and advertise these things.
Speaker 6 (13:44):
That was another exciting wing that we got within the
last few months. The Ninth Circuit has been surprisingly sympathetic
to gun rights in the last few months.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
There it is that they want to know more about it.
Go to saf dot org. Millsack, thank you so much
for your time and for us up to speed on
the multiple wins we've been enjoying.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
You bet, I'm done, stand with.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
You, absolutely all right, don't go far eight sixty six
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Speaker 10 (16:16):
Kick on forty five here, congratulations Tom, and I know
it must have been really fun and interesting, you know,
having worked with John Browning, you know, through most of
those designs. So congratulations on all your work in the
fireman industry.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
That's so funny. The timing on that is just perfect.
We have got forty five talking about me working with
John Brownie. Yeah I'm not quite that old. Yeah, Okay,
I'm old. I've got great hair. All that means is
I have a lot of experience. Somebody on X was
talking about, well, you know, nineteen eleven's and you know
they jam, and then I said, we don't. That's not
(16:52):
been my experience. But then again, I've only owned dozens
of them over a fifty year period, so perhaps I've
missed something a lot in the way. Yeah, you can
have any gun that can that can jam. In my experience,
a good nineteen eleven is no more prone to that
than any other gun. Now, if you get a really
really high end gun, and if it's made to be
(17:15):
really super tight, sometimes gunsmith's will make them where the
slide to frame fit is super tight because it shows
off what they can do with the fitting. Sometimes those
can be unreliable and people say, well, you know they
break in they shoot at Yeah, well, sorry, not interested.
What am I looking for in a pistol. I want
(17:37):
it to be number one reliable. That's first, number two accurate,
and number three pretty. If I can get pretty reliable
is first, accurate is second accuracy. Doesn't matter if it
doesn't go bang or if it gets jammed. And I'm
specifically talking about guns that you would bet your life on.
(17:59):
But then maybe also for competition, because if it's unreliable,
if it jams in the middle of a string, you
got a problem. So it's got to be reliable. I
have found that good, well made nineteen eleven's are reliable.
I don't know what it is or where it came about. Well,
you know what it is. It's the Internet where you
(18:22):
got young shooters to say, well, you know, those ninete
elevens are for old guys, they're for fuds, which gets
me started on a whole deal of Yeah, that's what
we really want to do. We want to divide ourselves
into gun owners that we approve of and gun owners
we don't approve of. And let's come up with a
name for them. We'll call them fuds, like they're Elmer Fud,
(18:44):
and then we can make fun of them because they're older. Yeah, well,
that old shooter that you're making fun of may have
more guns than you'll ever know about, may have a
whole bunch of machine guns that you own could drool
about if you knew about it. And maybe it's just
a better shoh than you are, whether you're willing to
understand that or not, whether or not that person's older
(19:05):
than you. But the idea of dividing ourselves and then
picking off people within our own community to make fun
of and detegrate and demonize. Well, that's nuts, and no,
it's more than that. It's stupid. It just doesn't make
any sense. But it is the thing you know kids do. Now. Look,
(19:27):
if you're fourteen or fifteen, yeah, go for it because
you're dumb. Okay, But if you're twenty five or thirty
five or forty five and you're still doing it, I'm sorry,
you're old enough to know better. Let me spin off
of that. There's a tangential connection here. I was looking
at the four rules of gun safety as created by
Colonel Jeff Cooper, who founded a gun sight, which oh yeah,
(19:50):
oh yeah, there's a connection nineteen Eleven's okay, it's not
much of a connection, but it's there. The four rules
of gun safety. Number one, all guns are always loaded.
Number two, never let the muzzle cover anything that you're
not willing to destroy. Number three, keep your finger off
the trigger until your sites are on the target. And
(20:12):
some people add and you have made a conscious decision
to fire. Number four, always be sure of your target.
Four rules of gun safety not just for the range,
for everywhere, in your house, in your car, on the street,
in a gunfight, everywhere. Those rules all apply. Yes, you
(20:35):
can make a few adjustments as necessary. But the whole
idea of all guns are always loaded. All that means
is you treat your gun as though it's loaded. Yeah,
I could you just verified it's unloaded. Great, Great, you
still treated as though it's loaded. Essentially, don't get casual
(20:57):
about the way you handle your gun. I'm not going
to have any angling. You go out to the range
of shoot and turn around, and you walk back through
the bench with this pistol hanging at your side. No,
it's always a gun. It's never a thing that's other
than a gun, and it always has to be treated
as a gun and pointed as a gun and handled
(21:18):
as a gun. All guns are always loaded. Gun Site.
By the way, gunsight dot com they've got in there,
I guess pro shop. Gun site store dot com they've
got a cool eighteen by eight inch metal sign. I
have a couple of them, and it has the gun
Site firearms safety rules, the four rules of gun safety.
(21:41):
It's a cool metal sign. Stick it on your safe,
stick it above your loading areas, stick it wherever you want.
You can go. Grab that then gun site store dot Com.
I approve of that safety. Yeah, but you know the
other part of it is why do we have these guns.
A lot of times it's for protecting ourselves, protecting others,
and that requires you to buy into the idea that
(22:05):
you have to be violent. This is about applying violence
where it is needed. When we come back, we'll talk
about that. Eight six six talk guy. All right about
with you here, Tom Gresham, if you want to join us,
it couldn't be any easier. Eight sixty six Talk Gun
(22:27):
or Tom Talk Gun. It's the same number, just a
different way to remember it. Give me a holler, Tom
Talk gun. Look at those range of ports. If you
are one of the lucky ones who have been able
to get your Gt. Thirty the firearm we created to
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It's a scout rifle. We worked with Ruger and Lipsis
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(22:52):
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All right, go into the phones now on Nicole has
actually thank you for your paces. You've been waiting for
a little while. Out of New Hampshire. Nicole talked to
me about this pistol.
Speaker 11 (23:34):
Hi.
Speaker 12 (23:34):
So I got a Gerson twenty three to eleven match X,
which I really didn't know a lot about before. But
it was in the right price range, you know, as
opposed to a staccato, which i'd have to take out
a small known for. But so I picked one of
those up and I put a hall of sun. I
believe it's a five oh seven sk on top of it,
(23:58):
and I think it shoots prety well. It's the first
nine millimeter in nineteen eleven I've ever gotten. I don't,
like I said, I don't know a lot about it.
I know it's kind of like an entry level poor
man's sticato, and I didn't know what you guys thought
of it.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Well, I'm not shot one. I'm looking at it now.
It's like a Staicado at half a third the price.
That's the first thing that comes to mind. EAA makes
good stuff. They, I guess that comes in four different variations,
mostly target, but they've actually got a carry version of
the Gerson brat. The witness Brat looks interesting, but I mean,
(24:33):
you're the one with the gun. I'd like to get
your impressions, all right.
Speaker 12 (24:38):
So first impressions are it shoots great, like next to
no recoil. Once I got the red dot dialed in,
it goes where I wanted to go. My only complaint
was that after about two hundred and fifty rounds or so,
the thing got super dirty and like the extractor, got
(24:59):
really sticky. So I had to clean the heck out
of it and oil the heck out of that. But
because I ended up getting a lot of stove pipes
and failure to a jack's for you to feed. And
then but once I cleaned it up and oiled it up,
you know, really well that seemed to eliminate the problem.
(25:20):
So I've got about five hundred rounds through it, and
like I said it shoop's great. It things off the steel,
you know almost every time.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Well, it's a heavy it's basically a heavy target gun.
Let me ask you, let's go back to this thing
getting dirty. Obviously it's not the gun spout that got dirty.
What kind of AMMO are you shooting?
Speaker 12 (25:38):
So I believe the first two fifty or so with PMT,
and then I believe the second two fifty was Remington.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Did you tell anything? Yeah? Could you tell any difference
between those two loads in terms of how dirty the
gun got?
Speaker 12 (26:01):
I want to say after the Remington, it's not quite
as dirty a the TMC seemed to be a lot dirtier.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yeah, And there's a good bit of difference between different brands.
If you can find it at a good price, find
some S and B Cellular and Beloit. I think it's
how it's pronounced. Usually it's pretty close in price, and
I found that to be pretty good. Ammo. You might
just give that a try. I mean, I don't have
any connection to them at all, but right now, some
(26:28):
of this range AMMO that's being put out there, it's
a race to the bottom on how cheap they could
make it. And man, they're using some dirty stuff. So
you really got to kind of look around and find
the stuff that works well for you because and I'm
glad you mentioned that, because this is a really nice gun,
high end gun, but it does point out that you
can use dirty loads and you can come up any
(26:48):
gun and just you know, kind of make a mess
of that these days. Look, I appreciate the call, sir.
Let's go talk with Aaron online.
Speaker 11 (26:55):
Three.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Hey, Aaron, you're on gun Talk. What's up?
Speaker 13 (27:00):
As is going on?
Speaker 4 (27:02):
We're just talking gun.
Speaker 13 (27:05):
Yeah. I live in California, you know, the great great
state California, and I want to know if there's been
on a glock on the block seventeen. I want to
know if there.
Speaker 12 (27:21):
Is any truth to.
Speaker 13 (27:23):
The rumor that the new law that they're trying to
pass or that they put on the Governor's desk about
the button making it an automatic will make me turn
my firearm in or will I be grandfathered in. I
just can't buy a further glock in the future.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Well, I'm not sure which where it's going to go,
but let's start. Let's back up, because yes, there is
an effort in California have to ban glocks because some
people have illegally turned them into full auto by using
the famous block switch. And they're saying, well, we're going
to go after block even though Glock doesn't make those,
(28:03):
and even though Glock says it voyage the warranty, and
even though it's a federal felony to do it, they
want to go after block. I mean, of course they're
not going to tell the police officers they can't have them.
They never would do that. I would suggest, if you
are right there in Sacramento, you joined the California Rifle
and Pistol Association CRPA, and they will keep you informed
on all of this and tell you what you can
(28:25):
do to help them with the fight for gun rights
in California. CRPA is a great group and they'll keep
you informed.
Speaker 13 (28:34):
Okay, do you know anything further about that about that
effort to pan glocks in California, whether or not I
will have to surrender my firearm or if it's just
going to be grandfathered a and you know, if it
passes and if it gets signed off on, will they
(28:56):
I mean, am I just so ol when it comes
to owning a gun?
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Yeah, let me let me ask you a question. I'm
gonna turn it around on you. If they say, okay,
your grandfathered in, you're not going to turn your gun?
How much do you trust California?
Speaker 13 (29:14):
Not as far as I can throw them?
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Yeah, that's my point. If they say, yeah, we're only
going to get the new ones now and you'll be
able to keep the ones, how long before they say, well,
you know, if you can't buy them new, then you
shouldn't be able to own those. You're gonna have to
turn those in. That's the history of what California does.
So I wouldn't trust them no matter what they said
about grandfathering. You got to stop this where it is,
and again I'm going to go back to it. The
(29:38):
best way to do that is to get involved with
the California Rifle in State Pistol Association CRPA dot org.
All right, we'll be right back with more gun talking.
Do you want to have a special rifle that can
do almost everything and that your friends don't have?
Speaker 10 (30:00):
Hi?
Speaker 4 (30:00):
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kind of a different way of thinking of things. I'm
getting a new gun, and it's part of my change
I'm making in guns I get and what I'm interested
in and what are my priorities these days. We'll get
to that a second. I want to talk to first
with Mark A Line four out of Illinois. Mark, what
(32:27):
did you find man?
Speaker 11 (32:28):
Yeah, so, as I understand it, and the gun shops
all still sell them, you can still buy in Illinois
a plain Jane Ruger Mini fourteen. It can't have a
tactical stock or any threaded muzzle or anything like that.
But so I found a used one. It's onely ones
(32:50):
of like a weird green, cloudy looking green stock, and
it does have on top of the receiver the two
things for mounting a SCUPE.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
I'm sorry, Yeah, that'st for the Ruger brand rings.
Speaker 11 (33:10):
Yeah, right, that was what that was. So you have
to use the Ruger brand rings and then what would
be a good scope on that for say one hundred yards, Well.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
It could be anything. It could be a one power,
it could be a twelve power. I mean for just
shooting at one hundred yards. I mean, are you trying
to shoot like small groups? You just want to like
you're going to use it for defensive years groups.
Speaker 11 (33:36):
At this point, my eyes are not where I could
take and use the beep sites anymore and try to
use try to tread one hundred yards anymore. Sure, get
something to get.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
I would probably be looking at a scope in the
three to nine range or like three to twelve, like
with a top magnification of somewhere in the nine to
wel power and that allows you to shoot, to dial
it up to the high power and shoot, you know,
with maximum accuracy at one hundred yards. And then if
(34:08):
you decided you wanted to keep it around the house
for home defense or something, get crank it down to
the lowest power and have it available and that would
work real well for that.
Speaker 11 (34:18):
Okay, yeah, okay, yeahse the Illinois got you know, I
can't pick it up yet. I got to pick it
up because Illinois still got still got the waiting period,
which hopefully what happened in New Mexico Illinois waiting period
will go out at some point, we would hope.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Of course, you've also got this sillonness of Okay, I'm
going to make you wait for your guns so you
can cool off, even though you own other guns.
Speaker 11 (34:42):
Right, yeah, I got about twenty other guns, right.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Right, So okay, you got all these guns, and they're
gonna make you cool down before you buy another gun.
It's ludicrous, Yeah it is.
Speaker 13 (34:55):
Okay, all right, thank your tom, you bet, thank you?
Speaker 14 (34:58):
All right.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Line three, it's out of Arizona. Hey, Jim, you got
a question, Yeah.
Speaker 14 (35:04):
Sure that Why are they My wife and I fled California.
It's three and a half years ago because all the craziness.
But why are they trying to outlaw the glock in California?
It's no different than any other firearm.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Well, okay, it's a great question and allows me to
expand upon this. There is a device, an attachment that
is you can put on a glock pistol. It mounts
to the rear of the slide that will allow it
to go full auto. And it's become popular with obviously
criminals and gangs where they just want to spray. They
(35:36):
don't even do a prey and spray, They just spray.
They don't care who they hit, don't care who they kill.
They just want to hit a lot of people. And
so clearly it's illegal because you convert to get to
a full auto gun and glock has nothing to do
with it. But California's position is, oh, look, glock makes
a pistol that is easily modifiable, ignoring the fact, of
(35:57):
course the glock's have been out for what forty years
more than that, and it is the preferred side arm
of police departments everywhere and is used by millions and
millions and millions of people lawfully, you know, and safely.
But it's a chance for Californias to do what it does,
(36:18):
which is to try to ban any and every gun
they can touch.
Speaker 14 (36:23):
Well, let me ask you a question to you when
you mentioned glock in law enforcement. I read an article
a while back there was a particular nine millimeter glock
at law enforcement was using across the country and they
were complaining about misfires, mischarge, all this stuff, and they
came to the conclusion any article I read this may
or may not be true. It was lack of training.
(36:45):
For example, I don't know the exact numbers, but let's
say they were using a bread a nine millimeter and
had a trigger pull of was a ten. Well the
glock had one that was less than that or more
than that, you know, so they were actually accidentally mischarging
their firearms. I mean, is that sue orful?
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Basically, you're correct. The problem training costs money and police
departments don't have as much money as they need for training,
and so you have police officers across the country who
fire their guns negligently, not accidentally. They pull the trigger
(37:22):
when they don't want to pull the trigger, and it
usually comes in two different ways. One is sticking the
finger inside the trigger guard and then holstering the gun,
which of course that action makes you pull the trigger
and it goes bang. The other is when they're trying
to disassemble it, they get the sequence wrong, they rack
the slide to clear the chamber, got the synquist right,
(37:43):
and then they take out the mag right, so of
course they've just put a live round back in the
chamber so the gun isn't fact loaded, and then they
pull the trigger thinking that they're going to just drop
the hammer or drop the striker on it and it
goes bang, and unfortunately they've also violated yet another gun
safety rule. They pointed it at themselves or somebody and
(38:04):
ended up shooting somebody. So that's what's going on. It's
a software problem, not a hardware problem. It's a training issue,
not a gun issue, and it needs to be addressed everywhere.
And I only mention that to say for everyone out there,
these four rules of gun safety all ways apply. All
(38:25):
guns are always loaded, don't point a gun at anything
you're not willing to destroy, keep your finger off the
trigger until your site's are on the target and you're
ready to shoot, and make sure of your target and
what's behind it. It's simple stuff. You really can only
have a catastrophic accident if you break more than one
(38:45):
of those rules. Even breaking one of them probably does
to do it. You probably got to break two of them.
Everybody ought to know them, be able to recite them
and put them as part of your life. It's what
you do. We'll be right back when more gun Talk
eight to six Talk gun I'm Tom Gresham. You can
check us out at gun talk dot com. Hey, coming
(39:13):
up in just a few minutes. We're going to have
a championship. I'm talking a national championship level handgun shooter
who's running for the US Senate, ringing against an incumbent
in Louisiana who helped Joe Biden pass his gun control bill.
I'm talking about you, Bill Cassidy, Senator Bill Cassidy, who
supports gun control. Where we talk with Blake Megiz, and
(39:36):
then later on the show, we're going to be talking
with a marine, veteran, police officer, trainer and all around
guy who can really deliver a message about what's the take,
what's it really mean to be prepared when you step
out of your house each day? What should you have
in your pockets? And what should you have in your head?
(39:56):
You do not want to miss any of that. All right,
let's go to the phones. Get he is with us
out of Napa, Idaho. Gary. What did you buy? Sir?
Speaker 11 (40:06):
Hell?
Speaker 13 (40:07):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 15 (40:08):
I listened to you regularly and I've finally got a
chance to call you. I'm a terrible disabled kid. I'm
dead and I have two presidential air mils. I flew
out of Dinang, Vietnam for three years, and I'm used
to testols and I even carry a couple of derringers.
(40:31):
I've had concealed opens forever, but I bought a Troy
star Bullpop twelve gage. Okay, are you familiar with that?
Speaker 4 (40:42):
I am? I am, So what's your question about that?
Speaker 15 (40:47):
Well, several I've never shot a shot gun. I've got
the extra large clips, and I I kind of need
to know what your opinion is orner should be using
for close range home defense?
Speaker 4 (41:11):
What loads? I would recommend a basic buck shot load
for home defense if you get a chance, if you
can go to the range and try the loads and
maybe your different chokes, although I will tell you the
choke doesn't make a lot of difference at distances inside
the house. The patterns are very small. I mean we're
talking about no larger than a dinner plate is what
(41:34):
the pattern is going to be more than likely, so
you do need to aim at carefully. But I would
probably for me, I'd be going with a buck shot load.
Speaker 15 (41:45):
Yeah, got double lot, and then I've got a couple
of steps down with steel balls.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
Yeah, and the probably lead balls not stealed. Be my guest,
that probably lead pellets and there be number four size.
But I got to tell you, I don't think it
matters all that much, but double up buck works really well.
It's basically a it'll stop and attack absolutely, But please,
if you would try to get to a range and
shoot that gun a little bit to get a handle on.
(42:20):
If you've never shot a shotgun before, you need to
know how to run it, how to operate it, how
to clear a jam if you get a jam, but
also just where it shoots and where it aims. A
shotgun does not just fill a room. You really do
have to aim it just as carefully as you do
a pistol. And you know pistols and you know that
you have to aim them and the shotguns the same way.
(42:41):
So I would encourage you to get out to the
range and do a little bit of shooting there and
thank you for your service or I do appreciate that.
So what's the deal with these Republican senators, specifically Bill
Cassidy out of Louisiana and John Corny, who helped Joe
(43:03):
Biden passed his gun control law, the bipartisan whatever it was,
gun safety, it's a gun control law. John Corny made
it happen. It wouldn't happen without him. Bill Casty was
very involved in the passage of that, and now they
want to proclaim that they are the protectors of the
(43:24):
Second Amendment. No, I want to send them both packet.
I want to defeat John corn I want to defeat
Bill Casty. You don't get a pass. You trample on
my Second Amendment rights, and I want to send you home.
Maybe you can find an honest way to make a living.
I don't know if that's possible. Put me right back.
(43:45):
It's more gun talking.
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Speaker 2 (00:14):
He was the first and he's still the best. For
thirty years, Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on
all things ballistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection, be
part of it, Paul, Tom Talk gun Now.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Here's Tom.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Welcome again to gun Talk. Tom Gresham here. Of course,
if you want to join us, it's the easy as always,
give me a call it Tom Talk gun Now. We
talk about guns and new stuff and old guns, and
hunting and self defense and all the rest of it.
We have to we have to talk about politics, and
we have to talk about the Second Amendment. We have
to talk about the battles that we're fighting. And one
(00:54):
of the things that I find is that a lot
of people haven't been at this as long as I have.
They don't understand what has gone before and where we
are now. And so whenever we get a win, I said,
but we didn't get enough of a win. I'man like
I want to say, you don't understand. I mean, thirty
years ago when I started this radio show, we thought
(01:15):
we were just going to slowly lose the Second Amendment,
and we are winning so much. I thought, well, we
had to talk about some of these wins. And a
bunch of them just really recently, we got Bill sach
Is joining us. He is the director of legal operations
at the Second Amendment Foundation, and Bill, you and I
were talking about this. No matter what you post online,
no matter what you say, people go, oh, yeah, but
(01:37):
we didn't do this or we didn't do that.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, hey, Tom, look, it's great to
be here.
Speaker 6 (01:44):
You know, people, whenever your rights are infringed to any degree,
it's painful and it's frustrating, and we certainly empathize with folks.
But yeah, it's certainly important to keep the longer rock
of history in mind and keep these things in context
and remember that things are good and rather well for
the movement as a whole right now, and as we're
going to talk about, just within the last few months,
(02:05):
we've seen a whole stack of wins.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
I mean, just in this last week, I've gotten several releases. Oh,
look what happened in New York, Look what happened in California.
Oh my gosh, So all right, you made the list.
This is what you work on, this is your specialty.
Where do you want to start? Just kick it off?
Speaker 6 (02:21):
Sure, So I'm going to start with probably the biggest
thing that people have been talking about for like the
last two months, which is the news that in the
big beautiful bill that just passed through Congress and that
the President's signed, is that a number of categories of
firearms that were part of the NFA had their tax
burden reduced from two hundred dollars to zero dollars. So specifically,
(02:43):
we're talking about short our rifles, short ow shotguns, silencers.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
And any other weapons.
Speaker 6 (02:49):
Aow's the tax burden, the tax stamp that's required for
those things to either make one or transfer one one
from two hundred dollars to zero. Now, well, we certainly
we're hoping that they would be removed from the NFA
entirely in the process of signing of that bill.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Ultimately, that didn't.
Speaker 6 (03:08):
Happen, But what it did open the door for is
a piece of landmark litigation that we filed soon not
long thereafter, in a case called Brown VTF. In these
transtrict of Missouri challenging the remaining NFA requirements for those items.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
So we are.
Speaker 6 (03:26):
Now suing in federal court with a massive Second Amendment
coalition to get SBRs, SBS's silencers taken out of the
NFA completely, to get rid of the remaining registration compliance
requirements there. And that is a massive landmark thing that
even six eight months ago, no one in the two
(03:48):
A space really thought was viable, and right now it's
looking really darn viable.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
So we didn't get everything we wanted, but it opened
the door to be able to come in and get it,
just a different way, coming in a different door.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Not only that, but probably a better door. You know,
when we.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
Fix these things through tax reconciliation bills like we saw
with the Big Beautiful Bill. The risk that we have
there is that it can be undone by a future Congress.
If we get an issue like this settled in the
courts and we get a determination that this part of
the statute is unconstitutional, well that's permanent.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
So it's actually a better deal.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
For the American people to get this thing dealt with
in the court system and get it tossed out on
its butt is unconstitutional than it is to have it
dealt with on a tax reconciliation bill.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
So there is a bit of a silver lining.
Speaker 6 (04:38):
Look, would we have loved for it to be dealt
with in the bill as a preliminary matter.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Sure, But there's still a lot to be excited about.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
You know.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
Challenging the NFA in federal court is a big deal,
and we think that we're on real strong legal footing
with this new challenge called Brown v.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
ATF.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
All right, so give me another win, all right, another
exciting win. So in our they're eighteen to twenty handgun
purchase ban, So that's our We have two of them.
One is called Reese v. ATF.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
And in the Rees case, we have a federal circuit.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
Court determination saying that the federal ban on young adults
from being able to walk into any gun store and
buy a handgun is unconstitutional. Now, what's particularly exciting about
this win is it creates a circuit split with another
one of SAP's cases called Brown, Different Brown. We have
two different Brown cases now against the ATF. And we
(05:31):
just recently filed for a petition for circiari in the
Brown case with the Supreme Court. So what we're hoping
now is that the Supreme Court will take this issue
up and vindicate the rights of young adult Americans all
over the country who have, you know, a full panepley
of constitutional rights, including their second memor rights, so they
can go my handgun to defend themselves in their family
(05:52):
from a gun store, just like anybody else can, you know,
between the ages of eighteen and twenty. So that's that's
a big win and you know, hopefully a win that's
going to get bigger yet if the Supreme Court chuse
to take that issue up.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
So that's an exciting one.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Okay, you ready for the next one, yes, sir, all right.
Speaker 6 (06:10):
So the next one that we think is super exciting,
and you alluded to this in your introduction coming out
of California, and the Ninth Circuit is our win in
the win case.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
This was our case.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
This is another staff case challenging the what we call
the one gun in thirty rule, the one a month
gun rationing rule, where California had created a statute that
said you can only buy one handgun or semi automatic
center fire rifle, or combination of the two per month.
So we got that struck down. We got a unanimous
Ninth Circuit opinion in our favor, which was huge in
(06:43):
its own right, and then the Department of Justice out
in California elected not to appeal, so the thing didn't
go to the Ninth Circuit en bonc. So we actually
have a win out of the Ninth Circuit that the
en Bonc court did not step in an overrule, which
is historic in its own right. So we have the
mandate issued in that case just a few days ago.
(07:05):
So the California gun rationing rule is gone to put.
So that is a very exciting win. In another staff case,
that one coming out of California.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
One of those that just makes you smile. You think, wow,
certain Ninth Circuit and this is not like up for
a piana. It's over. This thing is done.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
That one is cooked.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Okay, all right, excellent, all right, So move us to
another venue.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
All right, We're going to go to another venue. So
this one is in the Tenth Circuit. So this is
in a case called Ortega v.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Grisham.
Speaker 6 (07:32):
And in that case, the Tenth Circuit struck down New
Mexico statute which created a seven day waiting period to
purchase firearms. So this was a case that was brought
by Mountain State Legal Foundation and our friends at the NRA,
and they did a great job and got this seven
day waiting period struck down as unconstitutional under the Second
Moment because there is no historical tradition of making people
(07:56):
arbitrarily wait a certain amount of time in order to
extra as the rights.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
So very exciting when that one was just this week.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
All right, So what's going on? And we'll get to
a couple or others in just a minute, But there's
something going on. The landscape has changed, or the texture
is different in terms of these decisions. The US Justice
Department is deciding not to appeal some of these cases. Basically,
they're pulling back and trying to push gun control. Are
we in a new era? Now?
Speaker 6 (08:23):
Well, I mean I think the error really shifted, you know,
back in twenty twenty two when the.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Bruin decision came out.
Speaker 6 (08:31):
So the Brewin decision changed the landscape entirely by you know,
informing the circuit courts that were out there that had
misinterpreted the Heller decision and we're doing the Second Amendment
analysis wrong. It corrected them and said like, hey, guys,
you know, the proper analysis is not this two step
interest balancing nonsense, but is a history and tradition test.
(08:54):
And as soon as that opinion came out, it started
this new litigation sprint. And what we're seeing is that
the fruits of the labor of the sprint that we've
been on for the last twenty four months or.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
So are starting to bear fruit.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
We're seeing that these cases, which do take a while
to percolate through the federal court system, are now moving,
you know, once they go through motions to dismiss and
motions for preliminary injunction and then summary judgment and then
they end up on appeal and remanded and back on
appeal again, that we're finally starting to see these cases
hit the circuit courts on the merits and we're getting
(09:29):
the decisions that we were hoping for all along.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
And then I think you're right too, you know, like
on the.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Federal side of the House, we have seen a much
different standpoint when it comes to the administration and how
it is that they're treating a number of the Second
Amendment related cases that involve the federal government. And then
I think, you know, we are seeing the feeling that
the Supreme Court is, well, they've been somewhat reticent to
(09:57):
take on cases like within the last term or too.
It does appear that they have indicated that they're interested
in taking it at least some Second Amendment cases in
the next.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Term or so.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
And so I think what we're seeing is some state
departments of justice, like California, for example, are trying to
read the tea leaves a little bit here and are
getting a little gun shy on their appeals, like in
the win case, you know, not wanting to poke the
bear and risk these cases go up in front of
the Supreme Court. They'd rather kind of take their loss
(10:28):
and go home rather than risk making the loss a
worse one for them.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Got you. Okay, we're talking with Bill Sackey's the director
of legal operations for the Second Amendment Foundation. And Bill,
we just had something happen out in New York where
those of us who do not live in New York
are now going to be able to apply for and
get a conceio carry permit there. That's crazy.
Speaker 6 (10:47):
Yeah, that's another great one. And you're right that one's
you know, breaking news essentially. I think it's like forty
eight hours old at this point. So that case is
called Higbee James, and that comes out of the Northern
District of New York, and that case struck down the
fact that New York's carry permit regime doesn't provide for
non resident permit applicants. For the Second Amendment and the
Bruin case guaranteed that every American has the right to
(11:11):
carry a fire or amon their person for self defense.
And that right does not start and stop at state lines.
So while unfortunately we don't have something like national reciprocity
just yet, what we do have is an increasing judicial
trend to the availability of non resident permits. That so
(11:32):
thus far, the way these things are shaking out is
it does look that look like the need to have
a permit is something that the Supreme Court is willing
to uphold for the time being. But those permits have
to be shell issue, and they have to be available
to residents and non residents alike. They can't just be
for people that live in state, because then the rest
(11:53):
of the country is forbidden from carrying in that state.
And if it's a constitutional right, it's a federal right,
not a state right.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
All right, pick out a couple of more if you would, sure,
So one other.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
Key one that I think is worth mentioning is the
Road case out of California.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
That it's another California case.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
There's a Ninth Circuit decision in that case, and that
one struck down California's AMMO background check system. That one
also struck down on Second Amendment grounds. There is no
Second Amendment history and tradition in this country of regulating
ammunition sales such as they require a background.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Check, so that system also was kicked.
Speaker 6 (12:32):
I believe that there is the possibility that there might
be on bonk petition for that one.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
I think that one's remained to be seen, but.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
For the time, Peeing Panel decision in Roads striking down
AMMO background checks.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
So that is another very exciting one.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
And then I guess I'll throw one more at you guys,
just to round things out.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
And this is another staff case. So I'll close with
one of our cases that we're excited about.
Speaker 6 (12:55):
So this was the case also out of California called
Junior Sports Magazine. Case was actually a First Amendment case.
So this was about the ability of well anyone, but
in this case Junior Sports magazine to advertise firearms where miners.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Might see the advertising.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
So California passed a state law that said that you
can't advertise firearms anywhere that it was reasonably foreseeable that
a minor might see them.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
The problem is it is such a first I mean,
just such a violation of the First Amendment. It's crazy,
right right.
Speaker 6 (13:31):
So you know, not only can the state not tell
you what legal things you can can you can you advertise.
But they're not only legal to advertise and to sell
these things, but they're constitutionally protected right.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
To sell and advertise these things.
Speaker 6 (13:44):
That was another exciting wing that we got within the
last few months. The Ninth Circuit has been surprisingly sympathetic
to gun rights in the last few months.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
There it is that they want to know more about it.
Go to saf dot org. Millsack, thank you so much
for your time and for us up to speed on
the multiple wins we've been enjoying.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
You bet, I'm done, stand with.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
You, absolutely all right, don't go far eight sixty six
talk gun will get you an Arab. Be right back
with more gun talk.
Speaker 7 (14:12):
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Speaker 10 (16:16):
Kick on forty five here, congratulations Tom, and I know
it must have been really fun and interesting, you know,
having worked with John Browning, you know, through most of
those designs. So congratulations on all your work in the
fireman industry.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
That's so funny. The timing on that is just perfect.
We have got forty five talking about me working with
John Brownie. Yeah I'm not quite that old. Yeah, Okay,
I'm old. I've got great hair. All that means is
I have a lot of experience. Somebody on X was
talking about, well, you know, nineteen eleven's and you know
they jam, and then I said, we don't. That's not
(16:52):
been my experience. But then again, I've only owned dozens
of them over a fifty year period, so perhaps I've
missed something a lot in the way. Yeah, you can
have any gun that can that can jam. In my experience,
a good nineteen eleven is no more prone to that
than any other gun. Now, if you get a really
really high end gun, and if it's made to be
(17:15):
really super tight, sometimes gunsmith's will make them where the
slide to frame fit is super tight because it shows
off what they can do with the fitting. Sometimes those
can be unreliable and people say, well, you know they
break in they shoot at Yeah, well, sorry, not interested.
What am I looking for in a pistol. I want
(17:37):
it to be number one reliable. That's first, number two accurate,
and number three pretty. If I can get pretty reliable
is first, accurate is second accuracy. Doesn't matter if it
doesn't go bang or if it gets jammed. And I'm
specifically talking about guns that you would bet your life on.
(17:59):
But then maybe also for competition, because if it's unreliable,
if it jams in the middle of a string, you
got a problem. So it's got to be reliable. I
have found that good, well made nineteen eleven's are reliable.
I don't know what it is or where it came about. Well,
you know what it is. It's the Internet where you
(18:22):
got young shooters to say, well, you know, those ninete
elevens are for old guys, they're for fuds, which gets
me started on a whole deal of Yeah, that's what
we really want to do. We want to divide ourselves
into gun owners that we approve of and gun owners
we don't approve of. And let's come up with a
name for them. We'll call them fuds, like they're Elmer Fud,
(18:44):
and then we can make fun of them because they're older. Yeah, well,
that old shooter that you're making fun of may have
more guns than you'll ever know about, may have a
whole bunch of machine guns that you own could drool
about if you knew about it. And maybe it's just
a better shoh than you are, whether you're willing to
understand that or not, whether or not that person's older
(19:05):
than you. But the idea of dividing ourselves and then
picking off people within our own community to make fun
of and detegrate and demonize. Well, that's nuts, and no,
it's more than that. It's stupid. It just doesn't make
any sense. But it is the thing you know kids do. Now. Look,
(19:27):
if you're fourteen or fifteen, yeah, go for it because
you're dumb. Okay, But if you're twenty five or thirty
five or forty five and you're still doing it, I'm sorry,
you're old enough to know better. Let me spin off
of that. There's a tangential connection here. I was looking
at the four rules of gun safety as created by
Colonel Jeff Cooper, who founded a gun sight, which oh yeah,
(19:50):
oh yeah, there's a connection nineteen Eleven's okay, it's not
much of a connection, but it's there. The four rules
of gun safety. Number one, all guns are always loaded.
Number two, never let the muzzle cover anything that you're
not willing to destroy. Number three, keep your finger off
the trigger until your sites are on the target. And
(20:12):
some people add and you have made a conscious decision
to fire. Number four, always be sure of your target.
Four rules of gun safety not just for the range,
for everywhere, in your house, in your car, on the street,
in a gunfight, everywhere. Those rules all apply. Yes, you
(20:35):
can make a few adjustments as necessary. But the whole
idea of all guns are always loaded. All that means
is you treat your gun as though it's loaded. Yeah,
I could you just verified it's unloaded. Great, Great, you
still treated as though it's loaded. Essentially, don't get casual
(20:57):
about the way you handle your gun. I'm not going
to have any angling. You go out to the range
of shoot and turn around, and you walk back through
the bench with this pistol hanging at your side. No,
it's always a gun. It's never a thing that's other
than a gun, and it always has to be treated
as a gun and pointed as a gun and handled
(21:18):
as a gun. All guns are always loaded. Gun Site.
By the way, gunsight dot com they've got in there,
I guess pro shop. Gun site store dot com they've
got a cool eighteen by eight inch metal sign. I
have a couple of them, and it has the gun
Site firearms safety rules, the four rules of gun safety.
(21:41):
It's a cool metal sign. Stick it on your safe,
stick it above your loading areas, stick it wherever you want.
You can go. Grab that then gun site store dot Com.
I approve of that safety. Yeah, but you know the
other part of it is why do we have these guns.
A lot of times it's for protecting ourselves, protecting others,
and that requires you to buy into the idea that
(22:05):
you have to be violent. This is about applying violence
where it is needed. When we come back, we'll talk
about that. Eight six six talk guy. All right about
with you here, Tom Gresham, if you want to join us,
it couldn't be any easier. Eight sixty six Talk Gun
(22:27):
or Tom Talk Gun. It's the same number, just a
different way to remember it. Give me a holler, Tom
Talk gun. Look at those range of ports. If you
are one of the lucky ones who have been able
to get your Gt. Thirty the firearm we created to
commemorate thirty years on the air for Gun Talk Radio.
It's a scout rifle. We worked with Ruger and Lipsis
to put this thing together. It's the Ruger American Gin
(22:52):
two rifle, but with the number of features we stuck
on it or bolted on or created it. Actually it's
got a heavier barrel than standard and iron sights and
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(23:13):
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GQ thirty. If you have one of those, give me
a holt. I'd love to get your impressions of that.
All right, go into the phones now on Nicole has
actually thank you for your paces. You've been waiting for
a little while. Out of New Hampshire. Nicole talked to
me about this pistol.
Speaker 11 (23:34):
Hi.
Speaker 12 (23:34):
So I got a Gerson twenty three to eleven match X,
which I really didn't know a lot about before. But
it was in the right price range, you know, as
opposed to a staccato, which i'd have to take out
a small known for. But so I picked one of
those up and I put a hall of sun. I
believe it's a five oh seven sk on top of it,
(23:58):
and I think it shoots prety well. It's the first
nine millimeter in nineteen eleven I've ever gotten. I don't,
like I said, I don't know a lot about it.
I know it's kind of like an entry level poor
man's sticato, and I didn't know what you guys thought
of it.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Well, I'm not shot one. I'm looking at it now.
It's like a Staicado at half a third the price.
That's the first thing that comes to mind. EAA makes
good stuff. They, I guess that comes in four different variations,
mostly target, but they've actually got a carry version of
the Gerson brat. The witness Brat looks interesting, but I mean,
(24:33):
you're the one with the gun. I'd like to get
your impressions, all right.
Speaker 12 (24:38):
So first impressions are it shoots great, like next to
no recoil. Once I got the red dot dialed in,
it goes where I wanted to go. My only complaint
was that after about two hundred and fifty rounds or so,
the thing got super dirty and like the extractor, got
(24:59):
really sticky. So I had to clean the heck out
of it and oil the heck out of that. But
because I ended up getting a lot of stove pipes
and failure to a jack's for you to feed. And
then but once I cleaned it up and oiled it up,
you know, really well that seemed to eliminate the problem.
(25:20):
So I've got about five hundred rounds through it, and
like I said it shoop's great. It things off the steel,
you know almost every time.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Well, it's a heavy it's basically a heavy target gun.
Let me ask you, let's go back to this thing
getting dirty. Obviously it's not the gun spout that got dirty.
What kind of AMMO are you shooting?
Speaker 12 (25:38):
So I believe the first two fifty or so with PMT,
and then I believe the second two fifty was Remington.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Did you tell anything? Yeah? Could you tell any difference
between those two loads in terms of how dirty the
gun got?
Speaker 12 (26:01):
I want to say after the Remington, it's not quite
as dirty a the TMC seemed to be a lot dirtier.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yeah, And there's a good bit of difference between different brands.
If you can find it at a good price, find
some S and B Cellular and Beloit. I think it's
how it's pronounced. Usually it's pretty close in price, and
I found that to be pretty good. Ammo. You might
just give that a try. I mean, I don't have
any connection to them at all, but right now, some
(26:28):
of this range AMMO that's being put out there, it's
a race to the bottom on how cheap they could
make it. And man, they're using some dirty stuff. So
you really got to kind of look around and find
the stuff that works well for you because and I'm
glad you mentioned that, because this is a really nice gun,
high end gun, but it does point out that you
can use dirty loads and you can come up any
(26:48):
gun and just you know, kind of make a mess
of that these days. Look, I appreciate the call, sir.
Let's go talk with Aaron online.
Speaker 11 (26:55):
Three.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Hey, Aaron, you're on gun Talk. What's up?
Speaker 13 (27:00):
As is going on?
Speaker 4 (27:02):
We're just talking gun.
Speaker 13 (27:05):
Yeah. I live in California, you know, the great great
state California, and I want to know if there's been
on a glock on the block seventeen. I want to
know if there.
Speaker 12 (27:21):
Is any truth to.
Speaker 13 (27:23):
The rumor that the new law that they're trying to
pass or that they put on the Governor's desk about
the button making it an automatic will make me turn
my firearm in or will I be grandfathered in. I
just can't buy a further glock in the future.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Well, I'm not sure which where it's going to go,
but let's start. Let's back up, because yes, there is
an effort in California have to ban glocks because some
people have illegally turned them into full auto by using
the famous block switch. And they're saying, well, we're going
to go after block even though Glock doesn't make those,
(28:03):
and even though Glock says it voyage the warranty, and
even though it's a federal felony to do it, they
want to go after block. I mean, of course they're
not going to tell the police officers they can't have them.
They never would do that. I would suggest, if you
are right there in Sacramento, you joined the California Rifle
and Pistol Association CRPA, and they will keep you informed
on all of this and tell you what you can
(28:25):
do to help them with the fight for gun rights
in California. CRPA is a great group and they'll keep
you informed.
Speaker 13 (28:34):
Okay, do you know anything further about that about that
effort to pan glocks in California, whether or not I
will have to surrender my firearm or if it's just
going to be grandfathered a and you know, if it
passes and if it gets signed off on, will they
(28:56):
I mean, am I just so ol when it comes
to owning a gun?
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Yeah, let me let me ask you a question. I'm
gonna turn it around on you. If they say, okay,
your grandfathered in, you're not going to turn your gun?
How much do you trust California?
Speaker 13 (29:14):
Not as far as I can throw them?
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Yeah, that's my point. If they say, yeah, we're only
going to get the new ones now and you'll be
able to keep the ones, how long before they say, well,
you know, if you can't buy them new, then you
shouldn't be able to own those. You're gonna have to
turn those in. That's the history of what California does.
So I wouldn't trust them no matter what they said
about grandfathering. You got to stop this where it is,
and again I'm going to go back to it. The
(29:38):
best way to do that is to get involved with
the California Rifle in State Pistol Association CRPA dot org.
All right, we'll be right back with more gun talking.
Do you want to have a special rifle that can
do almost everything and that your friends don't have?
Speaker 10 (30:00):
Hi?
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I'm Tom Gresham, host of Gun Talk, and here's the deal.
Every few years we put out a special gun, a
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these are going quickly get your g T thirty gun
talkscout dot com. Yeah, in a minute, I'll tell you
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about a gun that I'm in the process of ordering,
kind of a different way of thinking of things. I'm
getting a new gun, and it's part of my change
I'm making in guns I get and what I'm interested
in and what are my priorities these days. We'll get
to that a second. I want to talk to first
with Mark A Line four out of Illinois. Mark, what
(32:27):
did you find man?
Speaker 11 (32:28):
Yeah, so, as I understand it, and the gun shops
all still sell them, you can still buy in Illinois
a plain Jane Ruger Mini fourteen. It can't have a
tactical stock or any threaded muzzle or anything like that.
But so I found a used one. It's onely ones
(32:50):
of like a weird green, cloudy looking green stock, and
it does have on top of the receiver the two
things for mounting a SCUPE.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
I'm sorry, Yeah, that'st for the Ruger brand rings.
Speaker 11 (33:10):
Yeah, right, that was what that was. So you have
to use the Ruger brand rings and then what would
be a good scope on that for say one hundred yards, Well.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
It could be anything. It could be a one power,
it could be a twelve power. I mean for just
shooting at one hundred yards. I mean, are you trying
to shoot like small groups? You just want to like
you're going to use it for defensive years groups.
Speaker 11 (33:36):
At this point, my eyes are not where I could
take and use the beep sites anymore and try to
use try to tread one hundred yards anymore. Sure, get
something to get.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
I would probably be looking at a scope in the
three to nine range or like three to twelve, like
with a top magnification of somewhere in the nine to
wel power and that allows you to shoot, to dial
it up to the high power and shoot, you know,
with maximum accuracy at one hundred yards. And then if
(34:08):
you decided you wanted to keep it around the house
for home defense or something, get crank it down to
the lowest power and have it available and that would
work real well for that.
Speaker 11 (34:18):
Okay, yeah, okay, yeahse the Illinois got you know, I
can't pick it up yet. I got to pick it
up because Illinois still got still got the waiting period,
which hopefully what happened in New Mexico Illinois waiting period
will go out at some point, we would hope.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Of course, you've also got this sillonness of Okay, I'm
going to make you wait for your guns so you
can cool off, even though you own other guns.
Speaker 11 (34:42):
Right, yeah, I got about twenty other guns, right.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Right, So okay, you got all these guns, and they're
gonna make you cool down before you buy another gun.
It's ludicrous, Yeah it is.
Speaker 13 (34:55):
Okay, all right, thank your tom, you bet, thank you?
Speaker 14 (34:58):
All right.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Line three, it's out of Arizona. Hey, Jim, you got
a question, Yeah.
Speaker 14 (35:04):
Sure that Why are they My wife and I fled California.
It's three and a half years ago because all the craziness.
But why are they trying to outlaw the glock in California?
It's no different than any other firearm.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Well, okay, it's a great question and allows me to
expand upon this. There is a device, an attachment that
is you can put on a glock pistol. It mounts
to the rear of the slide that will allow it
to go full auto. And it's become popular with obviously
criminals and gangs where they just want to spray. They
(35:36):
don't even do a prey and spray, They just spray.
They don't care who they hit, don't care who they kill.
They just want to hit a lot of people. And
so clearly it's illegal because you convert to get to
a full auto gun and glock has nothing to do
with it. But California's position is, oh, look, glock makes
a pistol that is easily modifiable, ignoring the fact, of
(35:57):
course the glock's have been out for what forty years
more than that, and it is the preferred side arm
of police departments everywhere and is used by millions and
millions and millions of people lawfully, you know, and safely.
But it's a chance for Californias to do what it does,
(36:18):
which is to try to ban any and every gun
they can touch.
Speaker 14 (36:23):
Well, let me ask you a question to you when
you mentioned glock in law enforcement. I read an article
a while back there was a particular nine millimeter glock
at law enforcement was using across the country and they
were complaining about misfires, mischarge, all this stuff, and they
came to the conclusion any article I read this may
or may not be true. It was lack of training.
(36:45):
For example, I don't know the exact numbers, but let's
say they were using a bread a nine millimeter and
had a trigger pull of was a ten. Well the
glock had one that was less than that or more
than that, you know, so they were actually accidentally mischarging
their firearms. I mean, is that sue orful?
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Basically, you're correct. The problem training costs money and police
departments don't have as much money as they need for training,
and so you have police officers across the country who
fire their guns negligently, not accidentally. They pull the trigger
(37:22):
when they don't want to pull the trigger, and it
usually comes in two different ways. One is sticking the
finger inside the trigger guard and then holstering the gun,
which of course that action makes you pull the trigger
and it goes bang. The other is when they're trying
to disassemble it, they get the sequence wrong, they rack
the slide to clear the chamber, got the synquist right,
(37:43):
and then they take out the mag right, so of
course they've just put a live round back in the
chamber so the gun isn't fact loaded, and then they
pull the trigger thinking that they're going to just drop
the hammer or drop the striker on it and it
goes bang, and unfortunately they've also violated yet another gun
safety rule. They pointed it at themselves or somebody and
(38:04):
ended up shooting somebody. So that's what's going on. It's
a software problem, not a hardware problem. It's a training issue,
not a gun issue, and it needs to be addressed everywhere.
And I only mention that to say for everyone out there,
these four rules of gun safety all ways apply. All
(38:25):
guns are always loaded, don't point a gun at anything
you're not willing to destroy, keep your finger off the
trigger until your site's are on the target and you're
ready to shoot, and make sure of your target and
what's behind it. It's simple stuff. You really can only
have a catastrophic accident if you break more than one
(38:45):
of those rules. Even breaking one of them probably does
to do it. You probably got to break two of them.
Everybody ought to know them, be able to recite them
and put them as part of your life. It's what
you do. We'll be right back when more gun Talk
eight to six Talk gun I'm Tom Gresham. You can
check us out at gun talk dot com. Hey, coming
(39:13):
up in just a few minutes. We're going to have
a championship. I'm talking a national championship level handgun shooter
who's running for the US Senate, ringing against an incumbent
in Louisiana who helped Joe Biden pass his gun control bill.
I'm talking about you, Bill Cassidy, Senator Bill Cassidy, who
supports gun control. Where we talk with Blake Megiz, and
(39:36):
then later on the show, we're going to be talking
with a marine, veteran, police officer, trainer and all around
guy who can really deliver a message about what's the take,
what's it really mean to be prepared when you step
out of your house each day? What should you have
in your pockets? And what should you have in your head?
(39:56):
You do not want to miss any of that. All right,
let's go to the phones. Get he is with us
out of Napa, Idaho. Gary. What did you buy? Sir?
Speaker 11 (40:06):
Hell?
Speaker 13 (40:07):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 15 (40:08):
I listened to you regularly and I've finally got a
chance to call you. I'm a terrible disabled kid. I'm
dead and I have two presidential air mils. I flew
out of Dinang, Vietnam for three years, and I'm used
to testols and I even carry a couple of derringers.
(40:31):
I've had concealed opens forever, but I bought a Troy
star Bullpop twelve gage. Okay, are you familiar with that?
Speaker 4 (40:42):
I am? I am, So what's your question about that?
Speaker 15 (40:47):
Well, several I've never shot a shot gun. I've got
the extra large clips, and I I kind of need
to know what your opinion is orner should be using
for close range home defense?
Speaker 4 (41:11):
What loads? I would recommend a basic buck shot load
for home defense if you get a chance, if you
can go to the range and try the loads and
maybe your different chokes, although I will tell you the
choke doesn't make a lot of difference at distances inside
the house. The patterns are very small. I mean we're
talking about no larger than a dinner plate is what
(41:34):
the pattern is going to be more than likely, so
you do need to aim at carefully. But I would
probably for me, I'd be going with a buck shot load.
Speaker 15 (41:45):
Yeah, got double lot, and then I've got a couple
of steps down with steel balls.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
Yeah, and the probably lead balls not stealed. Be my guest,
that probably lead pellets and there be number four size.
But I got to tell you, I don't think it
matters all that much, but double up buck works really well.
It's basically a it'll stop and attack absolutely, But please,
if you would try to get to a range and
shoot that gun a little bit to get a handle on.
(42:20):
If you've never shot a shotgun before, you need to
know how to run it, how to operate it, how
to clear a jam if you get a jam, but
also just where it shoots and where it aims. A
shotgun does not just fill a room. You really do
have to aim it just as carefully as you do
a pistol. And you know pistols and you know that
you have to aim them and the shotguns the same way.
(42:41):
So I would encourage you to get out to the
range and do a little bit of shooting there and
thank you for your service or I do appreciate that.
So what's the deal with these Republican senators, specifically Bill
Cassidy out of Louisiana and John Corny, who helped Joe
(43:03):
Biden passed his gun control law, the bipartisan whatever it was,
gun safety, it's a gun control law. John Corny made
it happen. It wouldn't happen without him. Bill Casty was
very involved in the passage of that, and now they
want to proclaim that they are the protectors of the
(43:24):
Second Amendment. No, I want to send them both packet.
I want to defeat John corn I want to defeat
Bill Casty. You don't get a pass. You trample on
my Second Amendment rights, and I want to send you home.
Maybe you can find an honest way to make a living.
I don't know if that's possible. Put me right back.
(43:45):
It's more gun talking.
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