October 6, 2023 • 31 mins
Chris and Rob debate which NFL head coach they’d trust more in a big game: Kyle Shanahan or Mike McCarthy, discuss the biggest difference between quarterbacks like Justin Fields and CJ Stroud and tell us why this Sunday's game against the New York Jets feels like a must-win for Sean Payton's Denver Broncos.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Bruson and Ron Harker.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
The big Game is Sunday night, and that is the
San Francisco forty nine Ers and the Dallas Cowboys, two
of I think was generally guarded as the top three
teams in the NFC this year, the Niners, the Cowboys,
and the Eagles.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Niners have eliminated.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
The Cowboys to the last two years in the playoffs,
and so this is a big game.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
I think it's bigger for the Cowboys. I think it's big.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
You know, both teams obviously want to win it, but
I would argue it's bigger for the Cowboys.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Where are you at on that?
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I mean if forty nine Ers have nothing to prove
tomorrow of a Sunday, I mean it is about the Cowboys.
They're the ones trying to come up if you will, Chris,
So it's up to them.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, they want to exercise some demons, so to speak. Right,
you don't want to enter the playoffs having lost now
three times in a row to the forty nine ers
twice in the playoffs the last two years, and then
Sunday night. You don't want to go into the playoffs
facing them knowing that they've beat you the last three
(01:45):
times and they've handled you.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
You got that in the back of your mind.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Nor do you want to go in there feeling like, man,
let's hope somebody else beats them. I'm not saying if
Cowboys lose their seasons over that their chances are going
to the Super Bowl over.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
But they want to get this one.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Right now that they need. It's too early. You can't
say that, right, nah, nah No.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
And you know, every game is its own entity, so
to speak. But they definitely understand the importance of this
game and they've talked about that. And there's a lot
of different matchups people are talking about.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
You know, we didn't think we'd be here a year ago.
But one of the big ones.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Is who which quarterback do you trust more, Brock Purty
or Dak Prescott, and then some people will talk about
the coaches as well. Mike McCarthy has won a Super
Bowl back in twenty eleven or twenty ten season with
the Green Bay Packers, and Kyle Shanahan is really a
(02:49):
celebrated coach for San Francisco, has taken them to the
Super Bowl, but hasn't won it. Obviously in a Super
Bowl with Atlanta as the offensive coordinator, hasn't won it.
And so that's another matchup people are talking about.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
That's the one I'm interested in.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah, you, yeah, go ahead and expound on that.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And when you talk about these two coaches, Chris, you
were just on visual, you would look at it and
say it's a mismatch. You take Shanahan any day over
Mike McCarthy. Mike McCarthy has, despite the success he's had,
people don't look at him the same way. We talk
about it all the time with Sean Payton, Chris, his
(03:33):
numbers are very similar, but one guy is thought of
as the hotness and the other guy is thought of
as an also ran, even though the numbers are very
very close. Right, But in this case, if you were
to ask me in a big game, which guy I'd
rather have, it would be Mike McCarthy and not Kyle Shanahan.
(03:58):
As great as Kyle shan Shanahan has been as a
regular season coach, and he has, He's piled up the wins, Chris,
I can't take that away from him. His offenses have
been unbelievable. I look like unstoppable no matter who you
put in that quarterback. I'll give them all of that.
But when it comes down to winning time, crunch time,
(04:22):
making the right calls, getting the first downs and the
points you need to seal victories when it matters most,
Kyle Shanahan, in the big moments has turned to go,
and so has his teams.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
In the fourth quarter of the forty.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Nine ers last three playoff losses Super Bowl versus the Chiefs,
NFC Championship games versus the Rams and Eagles, Kyle Shanahan's
team has been outscored thirty seven to nothing.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
This is fourth quarters, Chris, of games.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
That they were like leading and you thought they were
on their way, thirty seven to nothing. According to ESPN's
win probability a metric, Shanahan had a ninety five point
three percent chance of winning when the forty nine ers
were up twenty to ten with seven to twenty six
to go.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
That was in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Shanahan's Falcons, Chris as offensive quarter had a ninety nine
point six percent chance of winning when they were up
twenty eight to twelve with nine minutes to go. We
know how that ended. And then when you look at
the records, of course, McCarthy's been in a lot more
game playoff games. Chris, he has a better he has
(05:49):
a he's done a better job. Obviously, he won a
Super Bowl. Kyle hasn't. On the sea in the regular season,
McCarthy won fifty eight, ninety eight and two. That six
sixteen winning percentage. Chris Kyle Shanahan fifty six and forty six.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
That's a five forty nine good.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
McCarty eleven and ten in the playoffs, Shanahan six and
three in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (06:17):
So I get it.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Kyle Shanahan has beaten Mike McCarty the last two years.
But if I really wanted a big game victory, and
I'm talking about when it comes down to soup the
nuts and the one that really matters, I would take
Mike McCarthy because he's done it and so far Not
only has Kyle Shanahan not done it, Chris, He's failed
(06:40):
miserably in those moments.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
There's no doubt, and we've talked about it a few
times on this show that Shanahan has fumbled the ball,
so to speak, in some of those big moments you
mentioned with San Francisco as the head coach. You know,
also over there have twenty eight to three Chris redid
the Super Bowl. Now he was the he wasn't the
head coach in Atlanta, but he was the offensive coordinator.
(07:03):
And uh, just no way they should have given up
that that game, even though Tom Brady obviously played great
in the second half. I mean, you got that kind
of lead, just run the ball.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
And that time gone to the second half.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, I mean run out the clock.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And even at San Francisco Kansas City game, they have
been running the ball really well and right. So sometimes
it seems like he gets too cute, like you know,
he gets too much into that boy genius. Yeah, reputation
that he has I think with McCarthy the reason he
(07:42):
doesn't get the respect I mean, and he should be
a respected coach.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
He won the Super Bowl. His teams are essentially always in.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
The Hunt when he was in Green Bay, uh, and
then for the most part and then with Dallas. He's
won twelve games his last two years. But you know,
I think people look at it like, man, you only
got to one super Bowl, not even one, just one,
but you only got to one with Aaron Rodgers for
all those years, you know, And I think people look
(08:12):
at that the defense was a problem a lot of times.
But he's the head coach, and so even though he's
more of an offensive guy. You know, you're the head coach,
You're responsible for everything. Like in Denver now, Vance Joseph
is the defensive coordinator, but ultimately seventy points sits at
Sean some.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
That's on his record, Chris, no doubt, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
And so I think it's similar with Mike McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
And of course his last few years in Green Bay
with Aaron Rodgers didn't end well, I mean, it just fizzled,
and so people tend to think of him as out
kind of outdated, like the game is passed and by
a little bit. I think he's underrated in that regard because,
as you've said, his record similar to Sean Payton's. But
(08:58):
I also think Rob the way these last two playoff
games has ended for the Cowboys. That's on Mike McCarthy too.
I mean the clock, the poor clock management. I mean,
we saw a couple of years ago Dak pressed out
doesn't slide, you can blame it on him, but it
was like they were chickens with their heads cut off
out there not knowing what to do.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And then last year they run a play with Ezekiel
Elliott at center. I mean it was just they looked
like nonsense. I mean, it's comical the way they've ended
these games. So I would not necessarily take McCarthy over Shannahan.
Now I agree Shannahan's gotta get it done in a
big moment.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
He's gotta I.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Don't know what in the world gets in his head
in these last or a few minutes as you some
of the Super Bowls you brought up.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
But I think offensively that.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Dude is is sensational and it shows in that offense
that they have.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
And you know, sure they've got stars.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
But you know, Deebo, Samuel George killed a lot of
those guys. You know, they benefit from the system to
the great players. Don't get me wrong, but Christian McCaffrey,
who was great in Carolina, but we've never seen him
look like this, Like he looks better than ever. And
so I'm gonna give Kyle Shanahan some credit for all that.
And I think McCarthy's got some serious, you know, gaffs
(10:25):
on his resume, just as Kyle does. And Kyle's actually,
you know yours. You mentioned Super Bowls. McCarthy's on the
been to one and he won it, but it's been
a long time since.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
He got back there.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
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listen live.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
What do you get when you combine a three time
Manager of the Year at a three time National Sports
Writer of the Year.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
It's the Book of Joe podcast.
Speaker 6 (10:58):
Hey, this is Tom Ferducci from Fox Sports, MLB Networking
Sports Illustrated.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And I'm Joe Madden, and we're going to be around
to talk a little bit about managerial decisions, playoff games,
and what may have occurred to the dugout maybe in
the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
I can't wait for this, Joe.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
We're going to dive into what goes on in the
dugout and behind the scenes in Major League.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Baseball, cars, wind, whatever else we want to talk about.
Speaker 6 (11:18):
Listen to the Book of Joe podcast on the iHeartRadio app,
on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Last night, Look, it was going on during the game
last night. During the show, I should say, Justin Fields
was leading Chicago to what would become a forty to
twenty win over a decent Washington Commanders.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
Teach. Nobody saw that coming. Christ No Nobo. I don't
care what anybody says.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
We all gave Denver.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Flack for only beating Chicago thirty one to twenty eight.
But maybe you know, maybe the Bears are starting to
put it together and Washington, look, their defense has been
bad all year, so maybe you know they're just playing
well against bad teams. But give them credit. They got
their win. They broke their fourteen game losing streak.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
And for the.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Purposes of this conversation, I think most people rob because
everybody's like, Okay, what is what does the future hold
for the Bears?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Do they have their quarterback?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
And that would be of course, Justin Field dropped last
night fifteen to twenty nine, two hundred and eighty two yards,
four touchdowns, no interceptions. Did you see enough last night
to tell you that this is their guy?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Like this is your quarterback, Chicago.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Now just build around improperly and eventually you might be
able to make some noise.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
No, but it doesn't mean that I don't think you
can't play. I'm not saying that. I just need more.
The sample size, Chris, Unfortunately, if you want to be
honest and look at sample size, we got way more
bad sample size than good it. So that I mean
I have to look at that. And I know of
(13:05):
late the last two games, Denver's bad and they put
and they came back against you know about a big
spanking on Washington. So those are all positive stuff. But
I just need to see more. I wouldn't I couldn't
com Yeah, I couldn't commit to either one. Right, they
got they got blue out by Buffalo, didn't.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
They blown out?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
No, blowed out? They got blowed out. That's what they
say in the barbershop. They got blue out, they got
blew out or blowed out. They got blowed out. You
heard that in the barbers Yes, you got they got
blowed out.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
But look, my thing, Rob is that.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I do want to see more, as you said, because look,
people might say lash last year, Justin Fields has some moments,
and he had a lot of moments running the football.
What is different now is these last two games when
he's had four touchdowns in each of the last two games,
(14:07):
only one interception in those games. It's been passing the ball.
And that's what I like. Now, Again, to your.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Point, I need to see more of it before I'm ready.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
To We said that about Kyler Martin, don't you remember?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And Chris, you remember we had a lot more are
a lot more good tape.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
First two years. I think it was a pro bowler, but.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Right, and we still were like, I wouldn't give him
the deal yet. I remember that.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I mean we absolutely, We're like, I need just a
little bit more.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Can we see one more season? And I do think teams.
I think teams are learning right. I don't expect Chicago
to pay Why would you why? I mean, we're long
ways from the end of the season, so let's see
it play out.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
But there's no reason at this point to give him
the huge bag and make him your quarterback for the
next six years. And so I liked what I've seen
the last two years.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Two weeks, two weeks.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Remember he only completed fifteen to twenty nine passes, so
it's not like he was just dropping dimes left and
right now.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
He was. He was good. He threw some nice deep
balls and things like that.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
But his accuracy, which has been an issue, was a
problem last night as well.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Rob.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Three of their five games, he's completed less than fifty
six percent.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Of his past right, and nowadays, Chris, people are doing
seven Oh.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, because you know they're dinking and dunking and they
can't get hit and you know it's just a passer's
game now, and you're right, and so I want to
see it a little longer. And Rob, I will say
this because I've even you know, I've heard people saying
and sometimes I've thought it as well and maybe said it.
You look at at Justin Fields, you look at a
(15:54):
Daniel Jones, you look at a Zach Wilson, Rob, and
they're others, and a lot of times people will give
them a pass because, oh they got a terrible offensive line.
Oh they don't have any great receivers. Oh they got
a defensive head coach.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Oh they they they're not calling plays to to fit
their skills set. And then Rob, I look at a
guy like c J. Stroud. CJ.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Stroud is the worst enemy of that logic because c J.
Stroud who you know, Rob, I liked him the best
out of all the quarterbacks in this Yeah, this draft.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Now, I didn't not like Bryce Young, but.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
I I like.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Well, I got questions, but I didn't go all the
way to say, oh he's too small.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
No drafting, you know he can't be good. But one
thing I did like about Stroud was that he was
bigger Rob, like, he's a good sized quarterback.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
And I started Ohio State. He was fantastic, as were
all these guys. And that's another discussion. Ohio State quarterbacks.
They don't pan out. This is one that looks like
he might completely break that mole, Rob because in four
games he's got the Texans at two and two. We
know they've been bad for the last few years. Rob,
he's fourth in the league in yards per game. He's
(17:22):
got six touchdowns no interceptions. That's obviously best in the
league TD the interception ratio, I'm sorry. He's fourth in
the league in yards per game with.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Three hundred and three. He's in the top ten with
passer rating one hundred point six. The dude is playing
fantastic football. He's top five in yards per attempt.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
And Rob, his offensive line you talk about depleted. The
Giants got nothing on him, The Cowboys got nothing on him.
The Jets have nothing on him. The Patriots have nothing
on his offensive line.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
He's at like five offensive line and injured.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I mean they are just it's it's essentially the backup
offensive lineman for the most part, protecting him. And he
is putting up his historic numbers this week. He might
if he doesn't throw an interception, he'll likely break the record, Rob,
for most passes to start your career without an interception.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
He's already at number five right now.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Wow, and he's like twenty four away from tying Dak.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Prescott, believe it or not, who has that record.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
And now he just throws interceptions all the time.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Well, last year he certainly did. This year's been all right,
he's only got one. But so c J. Stroud.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Rob, when I'm starting to look at this and say, okay,
Joe Burrow, CJ. Stroud, you know, yeah, you want it
to be a good situation, of course, But Rob, the
guys that are special. When you're that guy, you kind
(19:03):
of step in there wherever you're at and you get
it done right Tom Brady, Rob, We know it was
his second year that Patriots team won five games. A
year before he stepped in was zero to two when
he took over as a starter because Drew Blakes Blesso
got hurt and they all of a sudden ran off,
(19:23):
like won eleven games at least that year. And so
like when you're that guy Deshaun Watson in Houston turned
that you know, got them playing good football, you know,
when he was in Houston before all his mess. And
so a lot of times, even if it is a
quote unquote bass situation, Rob, if you're that guy, you
(19:46):
turn it around. And if you're just a guy, then
you need everything else to be right for you. And
so that is something that makes me say, you know what,
let me sit back and watch just the fields and
let me watch him actually with a dose of skepticism,
and see what he does over these next several games
(20:08):
before I crown him and say he's my quarterback going forward.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
I think it's fair.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I think that that's fair, and it's not because I
do believe that that certain guys. You just even if
it's not Chrish, even if it's not as good as
it probably could be, but you still see something to
make you.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Believe that they have it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
You can't always point to it, you know, it's not
it's not tangible from just you know, looking at somebody's
stats or what they're doing. You just be like, this
guy can play, you know what, Chris, maybe Trevor Lawrence
was like that, you know, like they were off to
that terrible start. He was like, you can't miss you
remember coming out of college.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
But you did the whole situation with Urban Mars, but.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
You felt like this guy can play right like and then.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Been a little down this year this year year, but
he was.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
Really good last year.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I'm just saying, like you got to see what people, Yeah,
he should pay out, could could get. I just there's
just so much bad tape on fields that I just
need more.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
That's all.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
There's a.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
There's a line of thinking out there because everybody loves
Caleb Williams out of USC that right now, Chris Canty
said that this nick right my partner on first things first.
He said it that they should trade him right now
while he's hot.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Trade him to Atlanta. He'd be great and the Jets, Jets,
you know, I mean, he'd have.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
To likely sit a year next year behind there Rodgers,
unless they just let Rogers just go. But you know, yeah,
I thought the Jets that makes some sense to me
if I was the Jets, but that they should trade
him and essentially tanked this year and then you drive
Caleb Williams. Here's my thing, though, Rob, if they were
(22:03):
to do that, man.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
You better make sure you get Caleb Williams. You better
make sure you get that first pick.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Well that's the problem because if you don't get Caleb,
then now what and.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
They got Look, this is a good draft. There's other
Drake May and Bo Nix and there's some other you know,
there's four or five I don't know if your door's
coming out, but there's four or five quarterbacks people really like.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
But I Rob, I can't look at any of.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Them outside of Caleb Williams and say I definitely like
them better than justin fields. And while I think Caleb's
a short thing, right there is there pretty much is
no short thing at quarterback.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Right We've seen We've just seen too many of you
who were outstanding in college and just didn't pan out
for whatever reason.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
So that it's not automatic.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
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Speaker 3 (23:04):
We talked about the biggest game of the weekend, which
is the Niners and the Cowboys. But the other big game,
I mean, there's a few big games, you know, Buffalo
Jacksonville's kind of interesting, but rob one of the games
that everybody is pointing to, oddly enough, evolves two one
in three teams that are going nowhere, two of the
(23:26):
worst teams in the league.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
One of them here are a few hits for you
who don't know who I'm talking about. Yet one of
them gave up seventy points in a game.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Hello, is this on? Yes?
Speaker 4 (23:38):
And one of them had their best player hurt four
plays into the season.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I still can't believe that, you know, Like of Chris,
I think about it and I'm like, okay, you know,
could that thing not work out with the Jet? Sure
could not have. But if you would have told me
with all of that, remember they had Aaron Rodgers come
out of the town with the American flag. Oh yeah, right,
because that was nine to eleven.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
I mean it was a spectacle.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
The whole builder ever since he signed Rob. And look,
I'll give Aaron Rodgers credit. He he was, you know,
he did a good job with the Rob. He did
about as good as he could do.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
He embraced the franchise, He championed the franchise, He embraced
Zach Wilson, and I think, you know, gave him credibility
in that locker room when Zach had lost it last
year and the players were essentially done with him. And
I think Aaron Rodgers embracing him and you know, showing
(24:42):
some belief in him.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
I think that I think that.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Rob at least, you know, made other players say we'll
give him a chance, you know what I mean, and
they they seem to be behind him.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
He had a good game last week. We'll see if
he can follow it up.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
But this game is huge, of course, because Sean Ayton,
the new coach for the Jets, talked so much John.
I don't and we don't have sound because it was
an article, but he talked major league trash about Nat Hackett,
who was the coach of the Broncos last year. Now,
the offensive coordinated for the Jets, Sean Payton called it
(25:19):
one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of football,
and a lot of coaches and people felt like he
broke the coaches code. And so here they are, Rob,
we thought that when they face off in this game,
you know, we thought and Denver might be two and
(25:40):
two or three and one or you know. Yeah, so
we thought this'd be a consequential game. It is, but
just because of the drama and so Rob, I want
to what what are your thoughts, like, do you I
mean to me, it's obvious Sean Payton has the most
to lose in this, uh match up with Nat Hackett.
(26:02):
Again is only the offensive coordinator. But who do you
feel the most pressures on?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, I think it is Sean Payton, Chris, because if
they lose to the Jets, and I don't know, Zach
Wilson has some sort of offensive explosion like uh, like
Fields had against Denver, Chris, you know what I mean,
or something like that, it'll look bad on him and
he'll he'll always be remembered as you know, the guy.
(26:26):
And it's not that there's a time and a place
for everything, and everybody knew that Nathaniel Hacket, Chris, we
knew it from.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
After week one. Remember when he took the ball out
of rust.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
He starts two and one and it still didn't.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Look good, right, And remember after week one, I think
he got a coach for time, you know, to help
him manage the game clock management were like, you know,
if I'm the owner and I got to hire another
coach to help you manage the clock, I mean, why
did I hire you so all was bad? From jump Street.
I gave him the nickname Nathaniel can hack get all that.
(27:02):
But you know, with him replacing Hackett, there was just
no reason.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
To go down that road. There just wasn't. Everybody we
knew he was bad. Chris.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
You could have just said, hey, things just didn't work
out here last year. I'm here to try to get
this thing righted. We got a lot of good players,
you know what I mean, or whatever it is, and
leave it at that. He really dragged him, Hackett and
the other coaches through the mud. And I think a
lot of it just you don't hear that that often.
How many times have you really heard that?
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Now? It's rare.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Look he said, what he said, that's fine. But when
you say that, Rob, and we said the same thing
with Deon Sanders, you just put on to back it up, right, Yeah,
you better.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Back it up, I mean, and he has not.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Not only has he not backed it up, Rob, he
has now remember not Hackett. Of course, the whole season
it was a mess, and it started off poorly in
game one, but he did start to win one, all right,
so it but right now, like at this stage of
the season, they were two and two under not Hacket
(28:06):
and they're one in three under Sean Payton. They gave
up seventy points under Sean Payton. Sean Payton now Vance
Joseph is a defensive coordinator, but ultimately Sean Payton's head coach.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
It falls to his feet somehow, some way.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
The Denver Broncos this year under Sean Payton turned a
top ten defense into the worst defense in football. And
what they did somehow.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
And Rob and we said this, and you didn't fully
agree with me.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Russell Wilson when he went to Denver was I think most.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
People felt a sure fire Hall of Famer.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Now now he's played pretty well this year, but you know,
after last sear and I think there was a little doubt.
I think there might be some Maybe he isn't well,
let's see what he.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Does these next four or five years of his career
Sean Payton, Rob.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I think when he had about as much respect as
you can have outside of being a Bill Belichick or
you know somebody that won.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Three or four Super Bowls when he left New Orleans, Rob.
And if he doesn't.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Right this ship, and it might not get right this year,
but this start, and if they lose to Zach Wilson
with all that's on the line, and.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Look, he's not gonna get fired and all that.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
But I do think his image, just like Russell Wilson,
the how we think of his game, how we think
of his career, I'm not so sure that can't.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Impact Sean Payton in a similar way.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
If they maybe not just this one game, but this
this game will pile on to the evidence so far,
seventy points one in three, terrible defense. It's just another
block or brick on the wall of my goodness, what
is this dude doing?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I agree, and people will well, definitely when he became
an analyst, Chris and he was throwing stones at a
lot of people, and you know, and maybe that's how
he always was, but we never really heard that, you
know what I mean, So it kind of seemed different,
like he was a little a little cockier, more cocky
than the past.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
And then to have it blow up in his face
so far was just not was was tough.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Who you got in this, well, I guess we'll do
our This is one of our picks. I've been going
back and forth on this. I will say this, the Jets.
The Jets got a.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Chance to win this game.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Now, you know, maybe Washington that game last night when
Chicago pounded them, Maybe they're better than we think.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
And Denver's not as bad as we think.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
You know, they they had to struggle to beat Chicago.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
But you know, it's gonna be an interesting game. I
can't wait.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
It's gonna be one of the key games I'm focusing on.
Even though the teams are bad, because as far as drama, Rob,
you know when it's not when it's bad teams, this
is about the best you can ask for when you
got two bad teams. Because Rob, if that trash talk
hadn't taken place, and I'm not saying we want all
these guys talking trash, right
Speaker 4 (31:39):
But this game would nobody would care at all about
this game.
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Bruson and Ron Harker.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
The big Game is Sunday night, and that is the
San Francisco forty nine Ers and the Dallas Cowboys, two
of I think was generally guarded as the top three
teams in the NFC this year, the Niners, the Cowboys,
and the Eagles.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Niners have eliminated.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
The Cowboys to the last two years in the playoffs,
and so this is a big game.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
I think it's bigger for the Cowboys. I think it's big.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
You know, both teams obviously want to win it, but
I would argue it's bigger for the Cowboys.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Where are you at on that?
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I mean if forty nine Ers have nothing to prove
tomorrow of a Sunday, I mean it is about the Cowboys.
They're the ones trying to come up if you will, Chris,
So it's up to them.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, they want to exercise some demons, so to speak. Right,
you don't want to enter the playoffs having lost now
three times in a row to the forty nine ers
twice in the playoffs the last two years, and then
Sunday night. You don't want to go into the playoffs
facing them knowing that they've beat you the last three
(01:45):
times and they've handled you.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
You got that in the back of your mind.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Nor do you want to go in there feeling like, man,
let's hope somebody else beats them. I'm not saying if
Cowboys lose their seasons over that their chances are going
to the Super Bowl over.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
But they want to get this one.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Right now that they need. It's too early. You can't
say that, right, nah, nah No.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
And you know, every game is its own entity, so
to speak. But they definitely understand the importance of this
game and they've talked about that. And there's a lot
of different matchups people are talking about.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
You know, we didn't think we'd be here a year ago.
But one of the big ones.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Is who which quarterback do you trust more, Brock Purty
or Dak Prescott, and then some people will talk about
the coaches as well. Mike McCarthy has won a Super
Bowl back in twenty eleven or twenty ten season with
the Green Bay Packers, and Kyle Shanahan is really a
(02:49):
celebrated coach for San Francisco, has taken them to the
Super Bowl, but hasn't won it. Obviously in a Super
Bowl with Atlanta as the offensive coordinator, hasn't won it.
And so that's another matchup people are talking about.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
That's the one I'm interested in.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah, you, yeah, go ahead and expound on that.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And when you talk about these two coaches, Chris, you
were just on visual, you would look at it and
say it's a mismatch. You take Shanahan any day over
Mike McCarthy. Mike McCarthy has, despite the success he's had,
people don't look at him the same way. We talk
about it all the time with Sean Payton, Chris, his
(03:33):
numbers are very similar, but one guy is thought of
as the hotness and the other guy is thought of
as an also ran, even though the numbers are very
very close. Right, But in this case, if you were
to ask me in a big game, which guy I'd
rather have, it would be Mike McCarthy and not Kyle Shanahan.
(03:58):
As great as Kyle shan Shanahan has been as a
regular season coach, and he has, He's piled up the wins, Chris,
I can't take that away from him. His offenses have
been unbelievable. I look like unstoppable no matter who you
put in that quarterback. I'll give them all of that.
But when it comes down to winning time, crunch time,
(04:22):
making the right calls, getting the first downs and the
points you need to seal victories when it matters most,
Kyle Shanahan, in the big moments has turned to go,
and so has his teams.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
In the fourth quarter of the forty.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Nine ers last three playoff losses Super Bowl versus the Chiefs,
NFC Championship games versus the Rams and Eagles, Kyle Shanahan's
team has been outscored thirty seven to nothing.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
This is fourth quarters, Chris, of games.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
That they were like leading and you thought they were
on their way, thirty seven to nothing. According to ESPN's
win probability a metric, Shanahan had a ninety five point
three percent chance of winning when the forty nine ers
were up twenty to ten with seven to twenty six
to go.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
That was in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Shanahan's Falcons, Chris as offensive quarter had a ninety nine
point six percent chance of winning when they were up
twenty eight to twelve with nine minutes to go. We
know how that ended. And then when you look at
the records, of course, McCarthy's been in a lot more
game playoff games. Chris, he has a better he has
(05:49):
a he's done a better job. Obviously, he won a
Super Bowl. Kyle hasn't. On the sea in the regular season,
McCarthy won fifty eight, ninety eight and two. That six
sixteen winning percentage. Chris Kyle Shanahan fifty six and forty six.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
That's a five forty nine good.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
McCarty eleven and ten in the playoffs, Shanahan six and
three in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (06:17):
So I get it.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Kyle Shanahan has beaten Mike McCarty the last two years.
But if I really wanted a big game victory, and
I'm talking about when it comes down to soup the
nuts and the one that really matters, I would take
Mike McCarthy because he's done it and so far Not
only has Kyle Shanahan not done it, Chris, He's failed
(06:40):
miserably in those moments.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
There's no doubt, and we've talked about it a few
times on this show that Shanahan has fumbled the ball,
so to speak, in some of those big moments you
mentioned with San Francisco as the head coach. You know,
also over there have twenty eight to three Chris redid
the Super Bowl. Now he was the he wasn't the
head coach in Atlanta, but he was the offensive coordinator.
(07:03):
And uh, just no way they should have given up
that that game, even though Tom Brady obviously played great
in the second half. I mean, you got that kind
of lead, just run the ball.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
And that time gone to the second half.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, I mean run out the clock.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And even at San Francisco Kansas City game, they have
been running the ball really well and right. So sometimes
it seems like he gets too cute, like you know,
he gets too much into that boy genius. Yeah, reputation
that he has I think with McCarthy the reason he
(07:42):
doesn't get the respect I mean, and he should be
a respected coach.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
He won the Super Bowl. His teams are essentially always in.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
The Hunt when he was in Green Bay, uh, and
then for the most part and then with Dallas. He's
won twelve games his last two years. But you know,
I think people look at it like, man, you only
got to one super Bowl, not even one, just one,
but you only got to one with Aaron Rodgers for
all those years, you know, And I think people look
(08:12):
at that the defense was a problem a lot of times.
But he's the head coach, and so even though he's
more of an offensive guy. You know, you're the head coach,
You're responsible for everything. Like in Denver now, Vance Joseph
is the defensive coordinator, but ultimately seventy points sits at
Sean some.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
That's on his record, Chris, no doubt, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
And so I think it's similar with Mike McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
And of course his last few years in Green Bay
with Aaron Rodgers didn't end well, I mean, it just fizzled,
and so people tend to think of him as out
kind of outdated, like the game is passed and by
a little bit. I think he's underrated in that regard because,
as you've said, his record similar to Sean Payton's. But
(08:58):
I also think Rob the way these last two playoff
games has ended for the Cowboys. That's on Mike McCarthy too.
I mean the clock, the poor clock management. I mean,
we saw a couple of years ago Dak pressed out
doesn't slide, you can blame it on him, but it
was like they were chickens with their heads cut off
out there not knowing what to do.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And then last year they run a play with Ezekiel
Elliott at center. I mean it was just they looked
like nonsense. I mean, it's comical the way they've ended
these games. So I would not necessarily take McCarthy over Shannahan.
Now I agree Shannahan's gotta get it done in a
big moment.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
He's gotta I.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Don't know what in the world gets in his head
in these last or a few minutes as you some
of the Super Bowls you brought up.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
But I think offensively that.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Dude is is sensational and it shows in that offense
that they have.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
And you know, sure they've got stars.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
But you know, Deebo, Samuel George killed a lot of
those guys. You know, they benefit from the system to
the great players. Don't get me wrong, but Christian McCaffrey,
who was great in Carolina, but we've never seen him
look like this, Like he looks better than ever. And
so I'm gonna give Kyle Shanahan some credit for all that.
And I think McCarthy's got some serious, you know, gaffs
(10:25):
on his resume, just as Kyle does. And Kyle's actually,
you know yours. You mentioned Super Bowls. McCarthy's on the
been to one and he won it, but it's been
a long time since.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
He got back there.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
What do you get when you combine a three time
Manager of the Year at a three time National Sports
Writer of the Year.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
It's the Book of Joe podcast.
Speaker 6 (10:58):
Hey, this is Tom Ferducci from Fox Sports, MLB Networking
Sports Illustrated.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And I'm Joe Madden, and we're going to be around
to talk a little bit about managerial decisions, playoff games,
and what may have occurred to the dugout maybe in
the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
I can't wait for this, Joe.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
We're going to dive into what goes on in the
dugout and behind the scenes in Major League.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Baseball, cars, wind, whatever else we want to talk about.
Speaker 6 (11:18):
Listen to the Book of Joe podcast on the iHeartRadio app,
on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Last night, Look, it was going on during the game
last night. During the show, I should say, Justin Fields
was leading Chicago to what would become a forty to
twenty win over a decent Washington Commanders.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
Teach. Nobody saw that coming. Christ No Nobo. I don't
care what anybody says.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
We all gave Denver.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Flack for only beating Chicago thirty one to twenty eight.
But maybe you know, maybe the Bears are starting to
put it together and Washington, look, their defense has been
bad all year, so maybe you know they're just playing
well against bad teams. But give them credit. They got
their win. They broke their fourteen game losing streak.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
And for the.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Purposes of this conversation, I think most people rob because
everybody's like, Okay, what is what does the future hold
for the Bears?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Do they have their quarterback?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
And that would be of course, Justin Field dropped last
night fifteen to twenty nine, two hundred and eighty two yards,
four touchdowns, no interceptions. Did you see enough last night
to tell you that this is their guy?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Like this is your quarterback, Chicago.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Now just build around improperly and eventually you might be
able to make some noise.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
No, but it doesn't mean that I don't think you
can't play. I'm not saying that. I just need more.
The sample size, Chris, Unfortunately, if you want to be
honest and look at sample size, we got way more
bad sample size than good it. So that I mean
I have to look at that. And I know of
(13:05):
late the last two games, Denver's bad and they put
and they came back against you know about a big
spanking on Washington. So those are all positive stuff. But
I just need to see more. I wouldn't I couldn't
com Yeah, I couldn't commit to either one. Right, they
got they got blue out by Buffalo, didn't.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
They blown out?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
No, blowed out? They got blowed out. That's what they
say in the barbershop. They got blue out, they got
blew out or blowed out. They got blowed out. You
heard that in the barbers Yes, you got they got
blowed out.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
But look, my thing, Rob is that.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I do want to see more, as you said, because look,
people might say lash last year, Justin Fields has some moments,
and he had a lot of moments running the football.
What is different now is these last two games when
he's had four touchdowns in each of the last two games,
(14:07):
only one interception in those games. It's been passing the ball.
And that's what I like. Now, Again, to your.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Point, I need to see more of it before I'm ready.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
To We said that about Kyler Martin, don't you remember?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And Chris, you remember we had a lot more are
a lot more good tape.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
First two years. I think it was a pro bowler, but.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Right, and we still were like, I wouldn't give him
the deal yet. I remember that.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I mean we absolutely, We're like, I need just a
little bit more.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Can we see one more season? And I do think teams.
I think teams are learning right. I don't expect Chicago
to pay Why would you why? I mean, we're long
ways from the end of the season, so let's see
it play out.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
But there's no reason at this point to give him
the huge bag and make him your quarterback for the
next six years. And so I liked what I've seen
the last two years.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Two weeks, two weeks.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Remember he only completed fifteen to twenty nine passes, so
it's not like he was just dropping dimes left and
right now.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
He was. He was good. He threw some nice deep
balls and things like that.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
But his accuracy, which has been an issue, was a
problem last night as well.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Rob.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Three of their five games, he's completed less than fifty
six percent.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Of his past right, and nowadays, Chris, people are doing
seven Oh.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, because you know they're dinking and dunking and they
can't get hit and you know it's just a passer's
game now, and you're right, and so I want to
see it a little longer. And Rob, I will say
this because I've even you know, I've heard people saying
and sometimes I've thought it as well and maybe said it.
You look at at Justin Fields, you look at a
(15:54):
Daniel Jones, you look at a Zach Wilson, Rob, and
they're others, and a lot of times people will give
them a pass because, oh they got a terrible offensive line.
Oh they don't have any great receivers. Oh they got
a defensive head coach.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Oh they they they're not calling plays to to fit
their skills set. And then Rob, I look at a
guy like c J. Stroud. CJ.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Stroud is the worst enemy of that logic because c J.
Stroud who you know, Rob, I liked him the best
out of all the quarterbacks in this Yeah, this draft.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Now, I didn't not like Bryce Young, but.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
I I like.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Well, I got questions, but I didn't go all the
way to say, oh he's too small.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
No drafting, you know he can't be good. But one
thing I did like about Stroud was that he was
bigger Rob, like, he's a good sized quarterback.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
And I started Ohio State. He was fantastic, as were
all these guys. And that's another discussion. Ohio State quarterbacks.
They don't pan out. This is one that looks like
he might completely break that mole, Rob because in four
games he's got the Texans at two and two. We
know they've been bad for the last few years. Rob,
he's fourth in the league in yards per game. He's
(17:22):
got six touchdowns no interceptions. That's obviously best in the
league TD the interception ratio, I'm sorry. He's fourth in
the league in yards per game with.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Three hundred and three. He's in the top ten with
passer rating one hundred point six. The dude is playing
fantastic football. He's top five in yards per attempt.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
And Rob, his offensive line you talk about depleted. The
Giants got nothing on him, The Cowboys got nothing on him.
The Jets have nothing on him. The Patriots have nothing
on his offensive line.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
He's at like five offensive line and injured.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I mean they are just it's it's essentially the backup
offensive lineman for the most part, protecting him. And he
is putting up his historic numbers this week. He might
if he doesn't throw an interception, he'll likely break the record, Rob,
for most passes to start your career without an interception.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
He's already at number five right now.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Wow, and he's like twenty four away from tying Dak.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Prescott, believe it or not, who has that record.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
And now he just throws interceptions all the time.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Well, last year he certainly did. This year's been all right,
he's only got one. But so c J. Stroud.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Rob, when I'm starting to look at this and say, okay,
Joe Burrow, CJ. Stroud, you know, yeah, you want it
to be a good situation, of course, But Rob, the
guys that are special. When you're that guy, you kind
(19:03):
of step in there wherever you're at and you get
it done right Tom Brady, Rob, We know it was
his second year that Patriots team won five games. A
year before he stepped in was zero to two when
he took over as a starter because Drew Blakes Blesso
got hurt and they all of a sudden ran off,
(19:23):
like won eleven games at least that year. And so
like when you're that guy Deshaun Watson in Houston turned
that you know, got them playing good football, you know,
when he was in Houston before all his mess. And
so a lot of times, even if it is a
quote unquote bass situation, Rob, if you're that guy, you
(19:46):
turn it around. And if you're just a guy, then
you need everything else to be right for you. And
so that is something that makes me say, you know what,
let me sit back and watch just the fields and
let me watch him actually with a dose of skepticism,
and see what he does over these next several games
(20:08):
before I crown him and say he's my quarterback going forward.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
I think it's fair.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I think that that's fair, and it's not because I
do believe that that certain guys. You just even if
it's not Chrish, even if it's not as good as
it probably could be, but you still see something to
make you.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Believe that they have it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
You can't always point to it, you know, it's not
it's not tangible from just you know, looking at somebody's
stats or what they're doing. You just be like, this
guy can play, you know what, Chris, maybe Trevor Lawrence
was like that, you know, like they were off to
that terrible start. He was like, you can't miss you
remember coming out of college.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
But you did the whole situation with Urban Mars, but.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
You felt like this guy can play right like and then.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Been a little down this year this year year, but
he was.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
Really good last year.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I'm just saying, like you got to see what people, Yeah,
he should pay out, could could get. I just there's
just so much bad tape on fields that I just
need more.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
That's all.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
There's a.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
There's a line of thinking out there because everybody loves
Caleb Williams out of USC that right now, Chris Canty
said that this nick right my partner on first things first.
He said it that they should trade him right now
while he's hot.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Trade him to Atlanta. He'd be great and the Jets, Jets,
you know, I mean, he'd have.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
To likely sit a year next year behind there Rodgers,
unless they just let Rogers just go. But you know, yeah,
I thought the Jets that makes some sense to me
if I was the Jets, but that they should trade
him and essentially tanked this year and then you drive
Caleb Williams. Here's my thing, though, Rob, if they were
(22:03):
to do that, man.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
You better make sure you get Caleb Williams. You better
make sure you get that first pick.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Well that's the problem because if you don't get Caleb,
then now what and.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
They got Look, this is a good draft. There's other
Drake May and Bo Nix and there's some other you know,
there's four or five I don't know if your door's
coming out, but there's four or five quarterbacks people really like.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
But I Rob, I can't look at any of.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Them outside of Caleb Williams and say I definitely like
them better than justin fields. And while I think Caleb's
a short thing, right there is there pretty much is
no short thing at quarterback.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Right We've seen We've just seen too many of you
who were outstanding in college and just didn't pan out
for whatever reason.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
So that it's not automatic.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
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Speaker 3 (23:04):
We talked about the biggest game of the weekend, which
is the Niners and the Cowboys. But the other big game,
I mean, there's a few big games, you know, Buffalo
Jacksonville's kind of interesting, but rob one of the games
that everybody is pointing to, oddly enough, evolves two one
in three teams that are going nowhere, two of the
(23:26):
worst teams in the league.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
One of them here are a few hits for you
who don't know who I'm talking about. Yet one of
them gave up seventy points in a game.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Hello, is this on? Yes?
Speaker 4 (23:38):
And one of them had their best player hurt four
plays into the season.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I still can't believe that, you know, Like of Chris,
I think about it and I'm like, okay, you know,
could that thing not work out with the Jet? Sure
could not have. But if you would have told me
with all of that, remember they had Aaron Rodgers come
out of the town with the American flag. Oh yeah, right,
because that was nine to eleven.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
I mean it was a spectacle.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
The whole builder ever since he signed Rob. And look,
I'll give Aaron Rodgers credit. He he was, you know,
he did a good job with the Rob. He did
about as good as he could do.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
He embraced the franchise, He championed the franchise, He embraced
Zach Wilson, and I think, you know, gave him credibility
in that locker room when Zach had lost it last
year and the players were essentially done with him. And
I think Aaron Rodgers embracing him and you know, showing
(24:42):
some belief in him.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
I think that I think that.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Rob at least, you know, made other players say we'll
give him a chance, you know what I mean, and
they they seem to be behind him.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
He had a good game last week. We'll see if
he can follow it up.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
But this game is huge, of course, because Sean Ayton,
the new coach for the Jets, talked so much John.
I don't and we don't have sound because it was
an article, but he talked major league trash about Nat Hackett,
who was the coach of the Broncos last year. Now,
the offensive coordinated for the Jets, Sean Payton called it
(25:19):
one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of football,
and a lot of coaches and people felt like he
broke the coaches code. And so here they are, Rob,
we thought that when they face off in this game,
you know, we thought and Denver might be two and
(25:40):
two or three and one or you know. Yeah, so
we thought this'd be a consequential game. It is, but
just because of the drama and so Rob, I want
to what what are your thoughts, like, do you I
mean to me, it's obvious Sean Payton has the most
to lose in this, uh match up with Nat Hackett.
(26:02):
Again is only the offensive coordinator. But who do you
feel the most pressures on?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, I think it is Sean Payton, Chris, because if
they lose to the Jets, and I don't know, Zach
Wilson has some sort of offensive explosion like uh, like
Fields had against Denver, Chris, you know what I mean,
or something like that, it'll look bad on him and
he'll he'll always be remembered as you know, the guy.
(26:26):
And it's not that there's a time and a place
for everything, and everybody knew that Nathaniel Hacket, Chris, we
knew it from.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
After week one. Remember when he took the ball out
of rust.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
He starts two and one and it still didn't.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Look good, right, And remember after week one, I think
he got a coach for time, you know, to help
him manage the game clock management were like, you know,
if I'm the owner and I got to hire another
coach to help you manage the clock, I mean, why
did I hire you so all was bad? From jump Street.
I gave him the nickname Nathaniel can hack get all that.
(27:02):
But you know, with him replacing Hackett, there was just
no reason.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
To go down that road. There just wasn't. Everybody we
knew he was bad. Chris.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
You could have just said, hey, things just didn't work
out here last year. I'm here to try to get
this thing righted. We got a lot of good players,
you know what I mean, or whatever it is, and
leave it at that. He really dragged him, Hackett and
the other coaches through the mud. And I think a
lot of it just you don't hear that that often.
How many times have you really heard that?
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Now? It's rare.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Look he said, what he said, that's fine. But when
you say that, Rob, and we said the same thing
with Deon Sanders, you just put on to back it up, right, Yeah,
you better.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Back it up, I mean, and he has not.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Not only has he not backed it up, Rob, he
has now remember not Hackett. Of course, the whole season
it was a mess, and it started off poorly in
game one, but he did start to win one, all right,
so it but right now, like at this stage of
the season, they were two and two under not Hacket
(28:06):
and they're one in three under Sean Payton. They gave
up seventy points under Sean Payton. Sean Payton now Vance
Joseph is a defensive coordinator, but ultimately Sean Payton's head coach.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
It falls to his feet somehow, some way.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
The Denver Broncos this year under Sean Payton turned a
top ten defense into the worst defense in football. And
what they did somehow.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
And Rob and we said this, and you didn't fully
agree with me.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Russell Wilson when he went to Denver was I think most.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
People felt a sure fire Hall of Famer.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Now now he's played pretty well this year, but you know,
after last sear and I think there was a little doubt.
I think there might be some Maybe he isn't well,
let's see what he.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Does these next four or five years of his career
Sean Payton, Rob.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I think when he had about as much respect as
you can have outside of being a Bill Belichick or
you know somebody that won.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Three or four Super Bowls when he left New Orleans, Rob.
And if he doesn't.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Right this ship, and it might not get right this year,
but this start, and if they lose to Zach Wilson
with all that's on the line, and.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Look, he's not gonna get fired and all that.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
But I do think his image, just like Russell Wilson,
the how we think of his game, how we think
of his career, I'm not so sure that can't.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Impact Sean Payton in a similar way.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
If they maybe not just this one game, but this
this game will pile on to the evidence so far,
seventy points one in three, terrible defense. It's just another
block or brick on the wall of my goodness, what
is this dude doing?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I agree, and people will well, definitely when he became
an analyst, Chris and he was throwing stones at a
lot of people, and you know, and maybe that's how
he always was, but we never really heard that, you
know what I mean, So it kind of seemed different,
like he was a little a little cockier, more cocky
than the past.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
And then to have it blow up in his face
so far was just not was was tough.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Who you got in this, well, I guess we'll do
our This is one of our picks. I've been going
back and forth on this. I will say this, the Jets.
The Jets got a.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Chance to win this game.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Now, you know, maybe Washington that game last night when
Chicago pounded them, Maybe they're better than we think.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
And Denver's not as bad as we think.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
You know, they they had to struggle to beat Chicago.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
But you know, it's gonna be an interesting game. I
can't wait.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
It's gonna be one of the key games I'm focusing on.
Even though the teams are bad, because as far as drama, Rob,
you know when it's not when it's bad teams, this
is about the best you can ask for when you
got two bad teams. Because Rob, if that trash talk
hadn't taken place, and I'm not saying we want all
these guys talking trash, right
Speaker 4 (31:39):
But this game would nobody would care at all about
this game.
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