January 13, 2024 • 28 mins
Chris and Rob debate whether Michigan’s national championship has been tainted by the sign-stealing allegations that have surrounded the team all season, discuss the role that NIL an the Transfer Portal had in Nick Saban's decision to abruptly retire as the head coach at Alabama and argue over whether or not the history of cheating in New England complicates Bill Belichick’s legacy in the same way steroid allegations complicated Barry Bonds’.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brusa and Ron Parker.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Michigan took a part Washington thirty four thirteen was not
a just you know, unwatchable blowout, but certainly was not
really competitive. Four time, you know, Washington was within a touchdown,
but for the most part, Michigan had its way. With
(00:52):
Washington and Jim Harbar Rob we disagreed on whether or.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Not he had, you know, kind of done the job,
so to speak.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Before the game, I felt like just getting them to
being I think what everybody would say was a top
five program in the country now was getting the job done,
because Michigan had never really been that and you felt
though that he had to win the game and win
the championship to complete the job. So our disagreement doesn't matter.
(01:25):
He has clearly completed the job. And gotten Michigan its
first national championship rope since nineteen forty eight, so seventy
five years.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
This should be a nice story, Chris with a nice bow.
Finally the Mazing Blue. They finally get their national championship.
Their fan base has been wanting for so long and
hopeful and euphorick and my god.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Yeah, it's been a long time coming, right.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
But.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
They can't fully embrace it or feel good about it.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Michigan's National championship is chained. There's no way around it.
What is chained.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
If you would have touched it, you would have to
wash your hands.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
It's thinky, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I know the Michigan Faithful of feeling like, oh my god,
we did it, were the greatest. Jim Harball was five
minutes away from being tarred and feathered and run out
of ann Arbor. That's how bad it was. It was
horrendous what had happened. So much so they embarrassed him
(02:46):
and made him take a pay cut. He went to
that before he went to well, I'm just talking about
his whole story. I'm talking about his whole story. That
that's where he was. No, that's not because with the
turnaround also coincides with certain coaches and people being involved
in the university. And for Jim Harbaugh to stand up
(03:09):
there and talk about that they were innocent and they
didn't do anything.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
How could that be?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Jim Harbaugh? Why did you get rid of two coaches
this past year? I wouldn't have got rid of anybody, Chris.
If they were innocent, would you?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I would have stood up to you, guys, right if
those are your coaches that you hired and you paid,
so why did you get rid of them during your
undefeated championship season if they didn't do anything wrong?
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Why didn't you?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Why did you accept the suspension at the end of
the year, Chris when they had the big game against
Ohio State. You would the one who stood up there
and said, I want my due process, I want my
day in court. And then when the conference came and
showed you what they had, Chris, you high tailed it
and all of a sudden that didn't matter to you.
How can you sit here be a Michigan fan, wear
(04:02):
the winged helmet and all.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
That, and and and and act like nothing. Hey, there's
nothing to see here.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Michigan football is just like the Houston Astros. They're stinky,
they're cheaters. There's a reason not to feel good about
this championship. And you know what, Chris, is just a
matter of time before it all comes out in the Wars,
because there's an investigation that is not complete and we
(04:31):
will find more results. This team was going nowhere fast
and all of a sudden things change the last couple
of years when this guy who was roaming the sidelines
wearing disguises and apparently stealing signs, all of a sudden
turn the fortunes of Michigan around. That's why I'm not
(04:53):
gonna embrace it. When I see the final investigation, Chris,
and if they say they're totally exonerated as a mistake,
I'll embrace it. But until then, I'm keeping my arms
distance to that championship. And if I was near it,
I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Wow, I would Where was the music?
Speaker 5 (05:14):
This was one without music? It was all right, I'm
about to.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Thank you, all right, Look, obviously they cheated, all right,
but they're on board with that, Chris, Well with that?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Yeah, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Don't feel like you do about the championship. I almost
split it into two things, like the football of it,
the sport it do I feel like Michigan is the
best team in college football? Can I like say with
(05:50):
some degree of certainty that they are the best team
in college football and.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Deserve this championship? My answer to that, Rob is yes.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Now, I can't totally get mad at those that would
say but because you never know, right. I mean, my thinking, Rob,
is that early in the season when they may have
been cheating, right, I don't know if the cheating was
it the previous years, was there some this year early
(06:21):
in the season, if the cheating was going on during
these games, I mean, these teams were not very good
teams and Michigan was routing everyone just embarrassingly, and so
I don't think Rutgers or Nebraska or Bowling Green was
going to beat Michigan when the reports came out and
(06:46):
when Harball was suspended, at that point, I mean, I
find it hard to believe they were still cheating.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I think you'd probably even agree with that.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
So when the cheating, we would believe, when it presumably stopped,
they still beat up Penn State, Maryland, Okay, they're not
that good. Beat Ohio State without Harbaugh and be Iowa
in the Big Ten championship and then rolled Alabama and
(07:17):
of course Washington.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
So I think they.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Proved what we would presume would be post cheating, and
I'm not condoning the cheating.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
That's bad.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
He's been punished three game suspension beginning of the year,
three game suspension end of the year. Maybe more will come,
but I think just on the field, rob they prove
that they are indeed the best team in college football,
so I can respect that. But the cheating, You're right,
I mean, and I don't know, it'll be ugly if
(07:52):
it's some serious cheating scandal over the past two years
when they did turn it around, that you know, that
could put a damp on it. But right now, I
feel like Michigan fans feel fine. I know my daughter
is it feels great about it. I don't have a
problem with them. I think they proved it on the field,
so I'm okay with that. But you know, look, what
(08:14):
you said certainly has merit because whenever you cheat, you
can't get mad at people for holding it against you.
Some people want to be like, he wasn't that bad.
I'm good, you know, that's fine too, But if some
want to be like, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
You cheat it you can.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You just gotta you gotta take your medicine. You gotta
accept it because you did cheat.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You did do something wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
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Speaker 6 (08:50):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
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Speaker 5 (08:55):
But here's the thing.
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We never have enough time to get to everything we
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Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
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Speaker 4 (09:53):
May What a day we had several.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
Big news day. It really was Pete k which you.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Will get you later, forced out as coach in Seattle.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
That was a shocker, had a good season.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
They didn't make the playoffs, but I thought, you know,
he coached that team well this year, and they tried
to They want to move on.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
He will move.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Up into the front office in some capacity, probably advisor.
Bruce arians tight role with Tampa, right, I mean counting
paper clips exactly. Just they just giving him a gift
he's not gonna be doing. I think they just gonna
give him the money. I mean, I guess he not
that he needs it.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
He'll have an office so he could show up where
he wants to escape his family. I mean, come on, Chris,
just give him a bonus and say thanks Pete.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Seriously, Yeah, well.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
That's how they're doing it. We don't want you to coach,
but we want you to advise us on the team.
And he fought to stay. He fought to stay. You're right,
so and then of course they even bigger news. Just
a week after his team was beaten by eventual national
champion Michigan in the semi final. Nick Saban rob after
(11:02):
seventeen years, I mean seventeen years, probably not probably the
best run in college football history. Nick Saban, with seven
national titles, six of them at Alabama in his seventeen
years there, retires out of the blue as the head coach.
(11:22):
And that was even a bigger shocker.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Well, Pete Carroll.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Stepping down, So what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I think losing to Jim Harbaugh and Michigan that hadn't
won a national championship that did it probably killed him, Like,
my career is done, Michigan, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Time they got smoked in the College football playoffs, cribically like,
oh my god, I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
But no, I think Nick Saban is just the beginning
of veteran coaches, Chris, who are going to bow out
of college football, despite the money, despite.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
The fame and all.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
That was a loud critic, and he hates the nil money, Chris.
He hates the idea that players can have money in
their pockets, and despite the coaches making millions of dollars,
he hates the transfer a portal that kids can walk
out on him, even though college coaches could walk out
on kids whenever they want. It's the changing and dinosaurs
(12:22):
like a Nick Saban, and I call him a dinosaur
because he's old school. He's not gonna be able to
hold scholarships over people's heads anymore and treat the kids
any way that they want.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
So once you take that away from.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
These guys, you hear all these old coaches, you hear
Tom Mizzo in college basketball do the same talk about
the same kind of thing, Chris.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
He'll be another one.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Watch this will send shock waves and these older guys
will be like, I'm getting out too, because I don't
like what's happening in college sports. And that's what this
is to me with Nick Saban, that Nick doesn't want
to be a part of this. Nick doesn't want to
coach anymore where he doesn't have complete control. He doesn't
want a kid walking around with a million dollars in
his pockets. Chris, you know what I mean on college
(13:07):
campus and a sweet car ride and all that other stuff.
And it's fine. Nick Saban was an excellent, a tremendous
football coach, Chris. I used to talk to him when
he was coach at Michigan State, so I've known him
for a long time. Nick Saban and the work he's
done I have people always say, are you criticized? I
don't have anything to criticize Nick Saban over I don't
(13:30):
as a coach zero zero.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
I don't, And you never hear me say that, Chris.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Zero, you usually got something to say about it.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I'm telling you, Nick Saban, there's nothing to say. But
when it comes to this, I say it is time
for guys like Nick Saban to get out because they
don't want to change and adapt to something that should
have happened long ago. And if he's this hell bent
on living in the past, then I gotta say good riddance,
because yeah, it's time for him to move on, and
(14:01):
I think you would agree with me best.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
He's got to go down as the best college football
coach in history.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
I think there's no infanto, Buds.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I mean, come on, sixth the what he did at
Alabama was incredible. We obviously remember you and I remember
Rob bear Bryant. And then when he was retired, Alabama
really went downhill and were not a top program for
many years until Saban got been. They had a year
here or there, but when Saban got back, he restored
(14:32):
them to even greater heights than they had been at before.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
I agree with your take on why he's stepping down.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I don't know if it's not wanting money in the
kids pockets, but I certainly think the transfer portal and
the freedom that it gives the kids and it does
take some control away from you and certainly the NIL
I think as well.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
He doesn't you know that just is going to make
it tougher.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
And Rob, you know, in college the coaches in any
of the sports have so much control and power over
the kids, and now that is lessening. Because you said
it's been a long time coming. I mean, and again,
the NCAA isn't even yet paying the.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
Kids they're not.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
It's not even coming out of their pockets, right.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
It's the corporations or you know, endorsement deals they get
from corporations, boosters, things like that. And I agree, I
just don't think he wanted to deal with that.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
It's gonna change.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
And look, I'm not even And again I I don't
think the coaches mine the kids having money.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
But what that money does, rob.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Is definitely makes it tougher to coach them the way
you have now. But that easier when they had nothing
but that. But that's it, Chrissy, That's what I'm saying.
Like the money, the money part makes somebody feel different. Okay,
if I'm a player and the coach my scholarship and
they tell me when I can do this, and if
I can go to my grandmother's funeral, like it's a
(16:07):
big like like it was all that kind of control
over them. They had everything and kids had to come
to them for everything, you know. And once a guy
started doing TV commercials and he's making a million dollars
or whatever it is, or he's got to deal with
a local dealership for one hundred thousand, it's different. Nick
Taper can't yell at me, the same way Chris, when
(16:28):
you when you got one hundred thousand or five hundred
thousand dollars in a bank. Nah, it's true. And look
we saw it with Urban Meyer. What the difference was
between college and pro.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
He tried.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
He was a Irban Mayer, obviously a fantastic college coach.
He brought that to the NFL and it just didn't work.
I mean, he didn't even last a full season. Remember,
he was like, you do what the ball coach. I'm
the ball coach, say do what I say.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
And he like that.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
These dudes are getting money and obviously is not quite
like that in the new college landscape. But it's tilted
that way a tab bit and obviously a tad bit
too much for Nick Saban.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
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Speaker 3 (17:21):
Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots or their owner
Robert Kraft, have decided to part ways. That's how Belichick
worded it. He got I don't know. I think he knew, Yeah,
I think he knew they didn't want him. I think
they didn't want him, and he knew they didn't want him,
(17:43):
so he was ready to step down. No, but I
don't think I think he also might have been ready
to step down her.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
He wants those fifteen wins to pass Don Shuler.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
It would take him four years at this rate to
get that, and he might not have years of coaching
left an ym he's seventy two.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
The oldest coach ever seventy three.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
That was Romeo Crenell was actually interim at that time,
so he might have three years maybe four left to coach.
And I'm sure he wants to go somewhere and get
a Super Bowl and those alongside those fifteen wins, and
that was not happening in New England. I thought, Rob,
the way it was handled was good. Quickly before I know,
(18:26):
you got stuff to say. But you know you and
I have been saying all along, you cannot.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Fire Bill Belichick.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
You just can't because of his legendary his legendary coaching status.
But at the same time, Rob, it was definitively clear,
I think, unequivocally fit clear that his time it was
time to go. They're not gonna get any better under him.
(19:00):
It just had gone, had run its course, and so
I think it could have really been an ugly situation
had he just refused to if you're writing, they just
wanted to fire him, and he agreed to a mutual
party of the ways, or he didn't agree to that,
(19:22):
you know, and then they would have had to come
out and fire him or not fire him. And even
though they didn't want him just because they know he's
a legend, maybe they wanted him to get those fifteen
wins in the Patriots uniform, they wouldn't have fired him.
It just could have gotten really ugly. And I actually
thought today went well. I thought it was good. He
said he's a Patriot for life. That was all good,
(19:46):
and he's free to go where he wants now, so
he's not limited to teams they might quote unquote trade
him to. So I just thought they handle what could
have become an ugly situation and a really acrimonious situation.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
I thought they handled well. It won't be a Jimmy Johnson.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Jerry Jones type thing where they're feuding for twenty eight years,
so when he's ready to go back, I'm sure it'll
be fine. So yeah, I thought they did a good
job with that. Yeah, I just think he was fired.
And you go to him and say, we could do
one or two things. We can make nice and have you.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Walk out of here and not look bad for you
and your reputation, or you know, we can do which
one do you want to do? And he picked the
right one, which is to go along with it and
say I'm a patriot for life and all the things
that people want to hear, and you move on. You know,
twenty four years in an organization is a long time.
There's only two jobs you get to keep longer, and
(20:44):
that's a Supreme Court justice and pope. So you know
he had no choice. Those are the two jobs that
you get to keep for life. And twenty four years
is a long time for Bill Bill Belichick. So now
comes you know where he'll go from here his future.
(21:05):
There'll be somebody who'll snap him up and will Yeah,
we'll get more, he'll get that. I think he'll have
his choice, but we'll get to that. Let me ask
you this, what what are your thoughts on his legacy?
I mean, he's he's obviously he could still build on it,
but at this point.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Yeah, I just think it's strange.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
In American sports, how some people don't carry baggage with
them but others do. Because frankly, I look at Bill
Belichick as the Barry Bonds of the NFL.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
I do No coach was.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Ever fined more money a half a million dollars. Uh,
look at the trail of draft picks they lost. He
had situation after situation, even as Lake Chris as a
number of years ago with the Cincinnati filming of the sidelines,
and people say, wow, why did they videotape Cincinnati? They
(22:03):
beat them eighth straight time while there was a new
coach when they started to videotape that guy. So there's
a pattern there. Josh McDaniels under the Bill Belichick tree,
what happened got fired in Denver. He was found out
Chris videotaping team signals as well and was fired there.
(22:26):
And Denver obviously didn't play well either after they got
off to the great start. And then Eric Mangini, his
own disciple. You can't have a more damning proclamation from
anybody than the guy who was in your inner circle, Chris,
and was one of your disciples and one of the
guys from the Bill Belichick coaching tree, Eric Mangini, who
(22:49):
when he became coach of the Jets, made it very
clear that don't do to me what you do to
everybody else, Like don't I mean, like, if that is
not damning, I don't know what else is.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
That's not an outsider, that's.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Not somebody who Bill Belichick fired who didn't have a
career going.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
He was a head coach in the same division and
didn't want to fall prey to it. So of course
you talk about the six Super Bowls, but you can't
tell the whole story about Bill Belichick unless it includes
the cheating scandals that were involved. It would be great,
Chris if you could throw flowers at him and he
(23:30):
didn't have any of that stuff to be able to
you know, mar taint whatever you want to say his career.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
I still believe the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Never got the full credit that they should have winning
you know, six super Bowls and what they were able
to accomplish, because people always questioned whether it was completely
on the up and out. And I think that's a
shame because they did do a you know, they did
a lot of winning and people will always remember that.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, look, I'll give you that. His legacy is a
tad bit tainted. I don't think he's anywhere near Barry Bonds.
I think that's ridiculous. That comparison. I mean, taking performance
enhancing drugs is a lot different than a deflated ball
or or even a spygate. In my view, I think
(24:24):
Bonds and you look at you know, even like say
deflate Gate, when they found out the balls were deflated,
they changed them and the Patriots still rolled, you know,
so they were still performing. Now, Bonds was a great
player obviously his whole career, but he wasn't the power
hitter that he became. I mean he had like forty
(24:47):
or more homers, like three times his first eleven or
twelve years.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
He only hit over one time in his career.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
He didn't, No, but he hit forty, hit forty five
or more five straight years, a guy who had only
hit forty or more like three times. Like I said, No,
I'm not denying he was great, but he was a
different type player. I mean, he became like the greatest
power hitter of all time, and he had not been
(25:13):
that type of hitter.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
He was.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
He was had power, but not like he became.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
It became cartoonish in his seventy three one year, So
I think that's that's going overboard.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
But I do agree that, like I think he's the goat.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
I just think when you look at the you know, comparisons,
I mean, six super Bowls is more than every franchise
except Pittsburgh which has six. So like, no franchise has
more Super Bowls than this one man. And I do
(25:48):
agree though that then the reason it's even arguable, because
some people might say he's not the goat, the reason
his accomplishments. He's the goat with the six rings and
the nine Super Bowl appearances. But I think there are
two things, Rob that make it arguable to most people.
(26:10):
And one of them I think you brought up we
can erase the spy gate and the the flake gate.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I mean, it is a part of his story.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And then I think secondly is the fact that he
didn't he didn't have He wasn't even a mediocre coach
statistically without Tom Brady, you know. And I don't hold
the reason I say he's still the goat in terms
of that is because you look at all the other
quote unquote challengers.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
You know, Andy Reid was.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Did a great job, but didn't start winning Super Bowls
at least until Patrick Mahomes, Bill Walsh only one, you know,
and started winning when Joe Montana was there, and Chuck
Noll won with Bradshaw and in the eighties when that
whole Steve curtain left. You know, he was very mediocre
(27:05):
to pour in the eighties as far as his record,
and then you know Joe Gibbs. Joe Gibbs won it
with three different quarterbacks. Rob but he did have you know,
several of his seasons where he did miss the playoffs.
Not half, but you know, he had a good number
in his career where he missed the playoffs. So every
great coach has had those down years. So I'm not
(27:27):
gonna that's why I still think he's the goat. But
his record without Brady is is just not good. I mean,
eleven seasons without Brady, only made the playoffs twice, had
a winning percentage of forty five percent without Brady with
seventy eight or seventy seven percent with Brady, and obviously
(27:50):
all the Super Bowl. So I think those would be
the two things that may give people paus as to all.
I don't know that he's the goat because of the
cheating scame and his record without Brady. But I would,
at the end of the day say you know what
all things consider, I think he's the goat.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brusa and Ron Parker.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Michigan took a part Washington thirty four thirteen was not
a just you know, unwatchable blowout, but certainly was not
really competitive. Four time, you know, Washington was within a touchdown,
but for the most part, Michigan had its way. With
(00:52):
Washington and Jim Harbar Rob we disagreed on whether or.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Not he had, you know, kind of done the job,
so to speak.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Before the game, I felt like just getting them to
being I think what everybody would say was a top
five program in the country now was getting the job done,
because Michigan had never really been that and you felt
though that he had to win the game and win
the championship to complete the job. So our disagreement doesn't matter.
(01:25):
He has clearly completed the job. And gotten Michigan its
first national championship rope since nineteen forty eight, so seventy
five years.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
This should be a nice story, Chris with a nice bow.
Finally the Mazing Blue. They finally get their national championship.
Their fan base has been wanting for so long and
hopeful and euphorick and my god.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Yeah, it's been a long time coming, right.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
But.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
They can't fully embrace it or feel good about it.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Michigan's National championship is chained. There's no way around it.
What is chained.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
If you would have touched it, you would have to
wash your hands.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
It's thinky, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I know the Michigan Faithful of feeling like, oh my god,
we did it, were the greatest. Jim Harball was five
minutes away from being tarred and feathered and run out
of ann Arbor. That's how bad it was. It was
horrendous what had happened. So much so they embarrassed him
(02:46):
and made him take a pay cut. He went to
that before he went to well, I'm just talking about
his whole story. I'm talking about his whole story. That
that's where he was. No, that's not because with the
turnaround also coincides with certain coaches and people being involved
in the university. And for Jim Harbaugh to stand up
(03:09):
there and talk about that they were innocent and they
didn't do anything.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
How could that be?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Jim Harbaugh? Why did you get rid of two coaches
this past year? I wouldn't have got rid of anybody, Chris.
If they were innocent, would you?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I would have stood up to you, guys, right if
those are your coaches that you hired and you paid,
so why did you get rid of them during your
undefeated championship season if they didn't do anything wrong?
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Why didn't you?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Why did you accept the suspension at the end of
the year, Chris when they had the big game against
Ohio State. You would the one who stood up there
and said, I want my due process, I want my
day in court. And then when the conference came and
showed you what they had, Chris, you high tailed it
and all of a sudden that didn't matter to you.
How can you sit here be a Michigan fan, wear
(04:02):
the winged helmet and all.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
That, and and and and act like nothing. Hey, there's
nothing to see here.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Michigan football is just like the Houston Astros. They're stinky,
they're cheaters. There's a reason not to feel good about
this championship. And you know what, Chris, is just a
matter of time before it all comes out in the Wars,
because there's an investigation that is not complete and we
(04:31):
will find more results. This team was going nowhere fast
and all of a sudden things change the last couple
of years when this guy who was roaming the sidelines
wearing disguises and apparently stealing signs, all of a sudden
turn the fortunes of Michigan around. That's why I'm not
(04:53):
gonna embrace it. When I see the final investigation, Chris,
and if they say they're totally exonerated as a mistake,
I'll embrace it. But until then, I'm keeping my arms
distance to that championship. And if I was near it,
I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Wow, I would Where was the music?
Speaker 5 (05:14):
This was one without music? It was all right, I'm
about to.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Thank you, all right, Look, obviously they cheated, all right,
but they're on board with that, Chris, Well with that?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Yeah, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Don't feel like you do about the championship. I almost
split it into two things, like the football of it,
the sport it do I feel like Michigan is the
best team in college football? Can I like say with
(05:50):
some degree of certainty that they are the best team
in college football and.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Deserve this championship? My answer to that, Rob is yes.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Now, I can't totally get mad at those that would
say but because you never know, right. I mean, my thinking, Rob,
is that early in the season when they may have
been cheating, right, I don't know if the cheating was
it the previous years, was there some this year early
(06:21):
in the season, if the cheating was going on during
these games, I mean, these teams were not very good
teams and Michigan was routing everyone just embarrassingly, and so
I don't think Rutgers or Nebraska or Bowling Green was
going to beat Michigan when the reports came out and
(06:46):
when Harball was suspended, at that point, I mean, I
find it hard to believe they were still cheating.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I think you'd probably even agree with that.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
So when the cheating, we would believe, when it presumably stopped,
they still beat up Penn State, Maryland, Okay, they're not
that good. Beat Ohio State without Harbaugh and be Iowa
in the Big Ten championship and then rolled Alabama and
(07:17):
of course Washington.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
So I think they.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Proved what we would presume would be post cheating, and
I'm not condoning the cheating.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
That's bad.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
He's been punished three game suspension beginning of the year,
three game suspension end of the year. Maybe more will come,
but I think just on the field, rob they prove
that they are indeed the best team in college football,
so I can respect that. But the cheating, You're right,
I mean, and I don't know, it'll be ugly if
(07:52):
it's some serious cheating scandal over the past two years
when they did turn it around, that you know, that
could put a damp on it. But right now, I
feel like Michigan fans feel fine. I know my daughter
is it feels great about it. I don't have a
problem with them. I think they proved it on the field,
so I'm okay with that. But you know, look, what
(08:14):
you said certainly has merit because whenever you cheat, you
can't get mad at people for holding it against you.
Some people want to be like, he wasn't that bad.
I'm good, you know, that's fine too, But if some
want to be like, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
You cheat it you can.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You just gotta you gotta take your medicine. You gotta
accept it because you did cheat.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You did do something wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
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Speaker 6 (08:50):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get to.
Speaker 7 (08:58):
And that's why we have a brand new podcast called
over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in
our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber list lame me.
Speaker 6 (09:13):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 7 (09:17):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships and if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also Uncensored by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 7 (09:41):
There you go, over Promising. Remember you could see on YouTube,
but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised with Coavino and
Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you
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Speaker 4 (09:53):
May What a day we had several.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
Big news day. It really was Pete k which you.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Will get you later, forced out as coach in Seattle.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
That was a shocker, had a good season.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
They didn't make the playoffs, but I thought, you know,
he coached that team well this year, and they tried
to They want to move on.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
He will move.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Up into the front office in some capacity, probably advisor.
Bruce arians tight role with Tampa, right, I mean counting
paper clips exactly. Just they just giving him a gift
he's not gonna be doing. I think they just gonna
give him the money. I mean, I guess he not
that he needs it.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
He'll have an office so he could show up where
he wants to escape his family. I mean, come on, Chris,
just give him a bonus and say thanks Pete.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Seriously, Yeah, well.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
That's how they're doing it. We don't want you to coach,
but we want you to advise us on the team.
And he fought to stay. He fought to stay. You're right,
so and then of course they even bigger news. Just
a week after his team was beaten by eventual national
champion Michigan in the semi final. Nick Saban rob after
(11:02):
seventeen years, I mean seventeen years, probably not probably the
best run in college football history. Nick Saban, with seven
national titles, six of them at Alabama in his seventeen
years there, retires out of the blue as the head coach.
(11:22):
And that was even a bigger shocker.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Well, Pete Carroll.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Stepping down, So what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I think losing to Jim Harbaugh and Michigan that hadn't
won a national championship that did it probably killed him, Like,
my career is done, Michigan, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Time they got smoked in the College football playoffs, cribically like,
oh my god, I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
But no, I think Nick Saban is just the beginning
of veteran coaches, Chris, who are going to bow out
of college football, despite the money, despite.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
The fame and all.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
That was a loud critic, and he hates the nil money, Chris.
He hates the idea that players can have money in
their pockets, and despite the coaches making millions of dollars,
he hates the transfer a portal that kids can walk
out on him, even though college coaches could walk out
on kids whenever they want. It's the changing and dinosaurs
(12:22):
like a Nick Saban, and I call him a dinosaur
because he's old school. He's not gonna be able to
hold scholarships over people's heads anymore and treat the kids
any way that they want.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
So once you take that away from.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
These guys, you hear all these old coaches, you hear
Tom Mizzo in college basketball do the same talk about
the same kind of thing, Chris.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
He'll be another one.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Watch this will send shock waves and these older guys
will be like, I'm getting out too, because I don't
like what's happening in college sports. And that's what this
is to me with Nick Saban, that Nick doesn't want
to be a part of this. Nick doesn't want to
coach anymore where he doesn't have complete control. He doesn't
want a kid walking around with a million dollars in
his pockets. Chris, you know what I mean on college
(13:07):
campus and a sweet car ride and all that other stuff.
And it's fine. Nick Saban was an excellent, a tremendous
football coach, Chris. I used to talk to him when
he was coach at Michigan State, so I've known him
for a long time. Nick Saban and the work he's
done I have people always say, are you criticized? I
don't have anything to criticize Nick Saban over I don't
(13:30):
as a coach zero zero.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
I don't, And you never hear me say that, Chris.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Zero, you usually got something to say about it.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I'm telling you, Nick Saban, there's nothing to say. But
when it comes to this, I say it is time
for guys like Nick Saban to get out because they
don't want to change and adapt to something that should
have happened long ago. And if he's this hell bent
on living in the past, then I gotta say good riddance,
because yeah, it's time for him to move on, and
(14:01):
I think you would agree with me best.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
He's got to go down as the best college football
coach in history.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
I think there's no infanto, Buds.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I mean, come on, sixth the what he did at
Alabama was incredible. We obviously remember you and I remember
Rob bear Bryant. And then when he was retired, Alabama
really went downhill and were not a top program for
many years until Saban got been. They had a year
here or there, but when Saban got back, he restored
(14:32):
them to even greater heights than they had been at before.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
I agree with your take on why he's stepping down.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I don't know if it's not wanting money in the
kids pockets, but I certainly think the transfer portal and
the freedom that it gives the kids and it does
take some control away from you and certainly the NIL
I think as well.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
He doesn't you know that just is going to make
it tougher.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
And Rob, you know, in college the coaches in any
of the sports have so much control and power over
the kids, and now that is lessening. Because you said
it's been a long time coming. I mean, and again,
the NCAA isn't even yet paying the.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
Kids they're not.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
It's not even coming out of their pockets, right.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
It's the corporations or you know, endorsement deals they get
from corporations, boosters, things like that. And I agree, I
just don't think he wanted to deal with that.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
It's gonna change.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
And look, I'm not even And again I I don't
think the coaches mine the kids having money.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
But what that money does, rob.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Is definitely makes it tougher to coach them the way
you have now. But that easier when they had nothing
but that. But that's it, Chrissy, That's what I'm saying.
Like the money, the money part makes somebody feel different. Okay,
if I'm a player and the coach my scholarship and
they tell me when I can do this, and if
I can go to my grandmother's funeral, like it's a
(16:07):
big like like it was all that kind of control
over them. They had everything and kids had to come
to them for everything, you know. And once a guy
started doing TV commercials and he's making a million dollars
or whatever it is, or he's got to deal with
a local dealership for one hundred thousand, it's different. Nick
Taper can't yell at me, the same way Chris, when
(16:28):
you when you got one hundred thousand or five hundred
thousand dollars in a bank. Nah, it's true. And look
we saw it with Urban Meyer. What the difference was
between college and pro.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
He tried.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
He was a Irban Mayer, obviously a fantastic college coach.
He brought that to the NFL and it just didn't work.
I mean, he didn't even last a full season. Remember,
he was like, you do what the ball coach. I'm
the ball coach, say do what I say.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
And he like that.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
These dudes are getting money and obviously is not quite
like that in the new college landscape. But it's tilted
that way a tab bit and obviously a tad bit
too much for Nick Saban.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 3 (17:21):
Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots or their owner
Robert Kraft, have decided to part ways. That's how Belichick
worded it. He got I don't know. I think he knew, Yeah,
I think he knew they didn't want him. I think
they didn't want him, and he knew they didn't want him,
(17:43):
so he was ready to step down. No, but I
don't think I think he also might have been ready
to step down her.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
He wants those fifteen wins to pass Don Shuler.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
It would take him four years at this rate to
get that, and he might not have years of coaching
left an ym he's seventy two.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
The oldest coach ever seventy three.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
That was Romeo Crenell was actually interim at that time,
so he might have three years maybe four left to coach.
And I'm sure he wants to go somewhere and get
a Super Bowl and those alongside those fifteen wins, and
that was not happening in New England. I thought, Rob,
the way it was handled was good. Quickly before I know,
(18:26):
you got stuff to say. But you know you and
I have been saying all along, you cannot.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Fire Bill Belichick.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
You just can't because of his legendary his legendary coaching status.
But at the same time, Rob, it was definitively clear,
I think, unequivocally fit clear that his time it was
time to go. They're not gonna get any better under him.
(19:00):
It just had gone, had run its course, and so
I think it could have really been an ugly situation
had he just refused to if you're writing, they just
wanted to fire him, and he agreed to a mutual
party of the ways, or he didn't agree to that,
(19:22):
you know, and then they would have had to come
out and fire him or not fire him. And even
though they didn't want him just because they know he's
a legend, maybe they wanted him to get those fifteen
wins in the Patriots uniform, they wouldn't have fired him.
It just could have gotten really ugly. And I actually
thought today went well. I thought it was good. He
said he's a Patriot for life. That was all good,
(19:46):
and he's free to go where he wants now, so
he's not limited to teams they might quote unquote trade
him to. So I just thought they handle what could
have become an ugly situation and a really acrimonious situation.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
I thought they handled well. It won't be a Jimmy Johnson.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Jerry Jones type thing where they're feuding for twenty eight years,
so when he's ready to go back, I'm sure it'll
be fine. So yeah, I thought they did a good
job with that. Yeah, I just think he was fired.
And you go to him and say, we could do
one or two things. We can make nice and have you.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Walk out of here and not look bad for you
and your reputation, or you know, we can do which
one do you want to do? And he picked the
right one, which is to go along with it and
say I'm a patriot for life and all the things
that people want to hear, and you move on. You know,
twenty four years in an organization is a long time.
There's only two jobs you get to keep longer, and
(20:44):
that's a Supreme Court justice and pope. So you know
he had no choice. Those are the two jobs that
you get to keep for life. And twenty four years
is a long time for Bill Bill Belichick. So now
comes you know where he'll go from here his future.
(21:05):
There'll be somebody who'll snap him up and will Yeah,
we'll get more, he'll get that. I think he'll have
his choice, but we'll get to that. Let me ask
you this, what what are your thoughts on his legacy?
I mean, he's he's obviously he could still build on it,
but at this point.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Yeah, I just think it's strange.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
In American sports, how some people don't carry baggage with
them but others do. Because frankly, I look at Bill
Belichick as the Barry Bonds of the NFL.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
I do No coach was.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Ever fined more money a half a million dollars. Uh,
look at the trail of draft picks they lost. He
had situation after situation, even as Lake Chris as a
number of years ago with the Cincinnati filming of the sidelines,
and people say, wow, why did they videotape Cincinnati? They
(22:03):
beat them eighth straight time while there was a new
coach when they started to videotape that guy. So there's
a pattern there. Josh McDaniels under the Bill Belichick tree,
what happened got fired in Denver. He was found out
Chris videotaping team signals as well and was fired there.
(22:26):
And Denver obviously didn't play well either after they got
off to the great start. And then Eric Mangini, his
own disciple. You can't have a more damning proclamation from
anybody than the guy who was in your inner circle, Chris,
and was one of your disciples and one of the
guys from the Bill Belichick coaching tree, Eric Mangini, who
(22:49):
when he became coach of the Jets, made it very
clear that don't do to me what you do to
everybody else, Like don't I mean, like, if that is
not damning, I don't know what else is.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
That's not an outsider, that's.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Not somebody who Bill Belichick fired who didn't have a
career going.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
He was a head coach in the same division and
didn't want to fall prey to it. So of course
you talk about the six Super Bowls, but you can't
tell the whole story about Bill Belichick unless it includes
the cheating scandals that were involved. It would be great,
Chris if you could throw flowers at him and he
(23:30):
didn't have any of that stuff to be able to
you know, mar taint whatever you want to say his career.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
I still believe the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Never got the full credit that they should have winning
you know, six super Bowls and what they were able
to accomplish, because people always questioned whether it was completely
on the up and out. And I think that's a
shame because they did do a you know, they did
a lot of winning and people will always remember that.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, look, I'll give you that. His legacy is a
tad bit tainted. I don't think he's anywhere near Barry Bonds.
I think that's ridiculous. That comparison. I mean, taking performance
enhancing drugs is a lot different than a deflated ball
or or even a spygate. In my view, I think
(24:24):
Bonds and you look at you know, even like say
deflate Gate, when they found out the balls were deflated,
they changed them and the Patriots still rolled, you know,
so they were still performing. Now, Bonds was a great
player obviously his whole career, but he wasn't the power
hitter that he became. I mean he had like forty
(24:47):
or more homers, like three times his first eleven or
twelve years.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
He only hit over one time in his career.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
He didn't, No, but he hit forty, hit forty five
or more five straight years, a guy who had only
hit forty or more like three times. Like I said, No,
I'm not denying he was great, but he was a
different type player. I mean, he became like the greatest
power hitter of all time, and he had not been
(25:13):
that type of hitter.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
He was.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
He was had power, but not like he became.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
It became cartoonish in his seventy three one year, So
I think that's that's going overboard.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
But I do agree that, like I think he's the goat.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
I just think when you look at the you know, comparisons,
I mean, six super Bowls is more than every franchise
except Pittsburgh which has six. So like, no franchise has
more Super Bowls than this one man. And I do
(25:48):
agree though that then the reason it's even arguable, because
some people might say he's not the goat, the reason
his accomplishments. He's the goat with the six rings and
the nine Super Bowl appearances. But I think there are
two things, Rob that make it arguable to most people.
(26:10):
And one of them I think you brought up we
can erase the spy gate and the the flake gate.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I mean, it is a part of his story.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And then I think secondly is the fact that he
didn't he didn't have He wasn't even a mediocre coach
statistically without Tom Brady, you know. And I don't hold
the reason I say he's still the goat in terms
of that is because you look at all the other
quote unquote challengers.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
You know, Andy Reid was.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Did a great job, but didn't start winning Super Bowls
at least until Patrick Mahomes, Bill Walsh only one, you know,
and started winning when Joe Montana was there, and Chuck
Noll won with Bradshaw and in the eighties when that
whole Steve curtain left. You know, he was very mediocre
(27:05):
to pour in the eighties as far as his record,
and then you know Joe Gibbs. Joe Gibbs won it
with three different quarterbacks. Rob but he did have you know,
several of his seasons where he did miss the playoffs.
Not half, but you know, he had a good number
in his career where he missed the playoffs. So every
great coach has had those down years. So I'm not
(27:27):
gonna that's why I still think he's the goat. But
his record without Brady is is just not good. I mean,
eleven seasons without Brady, only made the playoffs twice, had
a winning percentage of forty five percent without Brady with
seventy eight or seventy seven percent with Brady, and obviously
(27:50):
all the Super Bowl. So I think those would be
the two things that may give people paus as to all.
I don't know that he's the goat because of the
cheating scame and his record without Brady. But I would,
at the end of the day say you know what
all things consider, I think he's the goat.
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