February 20, 2024 • 36 mins
Chris and Rob debate whether or not the Dallas Cowboys should be willing to offer Dak Prescott a new contract worth $60 million per year, discuss if Jayson Tatum’s NBA Finals failures from two years ago are impacting his NBA MVP candidacy this year and explain why LeBron James' longevity isn't necessarily more impressive than Michael Jordan's peak when it comes to the GOAT conversation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brusson and Ron Parker.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Rob, there's big news coming out of the NFL. Dak Prescott,
who had a great regular season I thought the best
year of his career.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Because he's gonna matter most.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, anxictary, he is up for a new contract extension
that the Cowboys, I mean, if they're gonna keep him,
they have to do essentially so they can, you know,
move some money around and have some money to give
to Micah Parsons and CD and some of these other guys.
But the report says, and Rob g correct me if
I'm wrong, that Dak Prescott Robb won sixty million dollars
(01:09):
per year. Now, Joe Burrow currently is the highest paid
quarterback in the NFL, making fifty five million dollars a year.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Rob Parker what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
No way know, how would I give Dak Prescott sixty million.
I don't care Chris if he's in line for it,
and we know how it goes.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
It's all about.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
When your contracts up, and the next guy is usually
the highest paid guy.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
But at some point you got to buck the trend.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
If you're the Dallas Cowboys, you gotta say we're not
paying you that. Can we put on the film of
the playoff game you had against Green Bay, that debacle,
and look at your postseason record, and look at the
years that we've lost postseason games at home and struggle offensively.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
We're not doing it.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
And if you want to stay a part of the
Dallas Cowboys and you want to keep making all that
endorsement money for being a count a quarterback on the
Dallas Cowboys, you're going to give us a Texas discount?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
What do they say, Chris?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Everything's bigger in Texas, including a discount. When you think
in the postseason the Cowboys and Jerry Jones should demand
a discount from Dak Prescott and Michael Parsons, Please stop it.
Other than Patrick Mahomes in the AFC, No, what you're
(02:40):
going to back who's known as what just Dak? Please
stop it, stop because Dak has done nothing.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Joe Burrow, Joe Burrow's been to a Super Bowl. Mark
Jackson MVPs, stop it. I mean, I mean, Josh Dallen's better.
I don't know that he's done. I mean he's been
first these guys, but still he's better than Dak.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Chris he he got the he led the Bills to
the leading touchdown before the last twelve seconds when the
defense gave it up.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
You remember they were behind.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
He led them to that touchdown to set it up
where he could have been going to the super Bowl.
But anyway, my point is Dak hasn't done enough to
deserve a sixty million dollars a year contract. I don't
care if he's next man up. And that's how it's
been going. Pay the people, not the position. Pay the people,
not the position. That's what the Dallas Cowboys should do.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
I hear you. I agree with essentially your main point.
But obviously, and I think you would you do it
in a different tone. But if I'm the Cowboys, riber
I am sitting down with Dak and saying, look, Dak,
we gotta pay Micah I'm sure you want Michael back.
We gotta pay CD. I know you want CD back
(04:01):
is your number one target, and we need to improve. Dak.
You had a great regular season, but what's gonna make
you an immortal, at least with the Cowboys is a
super Bowl. We can't win the super Bowl without these guys.
We can't keep these guys if you're making sixty million dollars.
(04:24):
I'm trying to appeal to him. Now, Dak, we think
you're you know, you're our guy. We love you, We
want you to be our quarterback going forward, and we
also understand that you you know, look what you don't
make from us, you will make up off the field.
(04:45):
Because you're the Dallas Cowboys quarterback.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
He's on every commercial, Cris right, and I try to
appeal to and I'm Rob.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I'm not gonna insult him. I'll give him fifty two
something in that range. You know, I'm not trying to,
you know, give us, you know, thirty seven forty something
like that. But that's what I'm gonna try to do.
And look, I get there's if you're Dak, Rob, you
(05:13):
know how it works. You might even do this if
you were in Dak shoes. If you're Dak, you got
every right to go for every penny you want.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
But I'm not saying he can't ask for it. I'm
just telling the cowboys don't get to him. But I've
never told a guy can't ask for it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, I'm just saying if i'm I think Dak. Now,
people might say I'm wrong, but look either way, I mean,
nothing you can do with sixty million you can't do
with fifty two. So Dak should realize, you know, I'll
give him a little, a little discount because I love
(05:52):
being a cowboy. I understand I do get the benefits
I get. Rob I've said it before. When I was
at esp in years ago, I could have went somewhere.
I don't know if it's I think it might have
been my third contract with them. I could have went
somewhere else and made more money, but I would not
have had the exposure and everything that I had on ESPN.
(06:15):
Plus I liked what I was doing, and so I
stayed at ESPN and making less money. And so I
think dakne If Dak really loves being a cowboy, if
he really loves being the face of America's team, then
I think he should be willing to take a little haircut. Again,
(06:36):
nothing insulting, but a little haircut. Also, it's hard for
people to do this, but maybe looking in the mirror saying,
you know what, I didn't deliver. I didn't deliver. And
so I think that now I might be people might
think that's Pollyannish, right, Chris, And that kind of does.
Like I said, I spoke from my experience, but DK.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yeah, but I would say, you're not the norm.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I'm just well, Tom Brady did it all the time.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Yeah, but he had a wife who was making a
gazillion dollars.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Come on, it wasn't I mean many, I know, but
that even if his wife was penniless, he still was
making enough money where it didn't matter. And so that's
my point, Like, you know, I was making good money
either way. And so I'm just saying, Dak, Now, look
(07:28):
that maybe Dak's like I got him. I got them
between a rock and a hard place, right, Because here's
where I do Here's where I think you and I disagree.
I think they gotta bring Dak back. I don't think that.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I don't think they have to bring Dak back. I know,
Kuch financially.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
See some video of Trey Lance that I ain't see.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
No, it ain't even that. It ain't even that. What's
the difference, I mean, what what's really the differencetween Trey
Lance and dak No the idea of having Dac there.
You haven't won anything, you haven't done anything that's especial.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
A very good quarterback. You would admit that.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I say that, But but but really, Chris, I mean,
at this point, I would take.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
The unknown over the known.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
The known is this guy can't get it done when
it matters. That's the known. The unknown is, I don't know.
I might bring somebody in and he might be Rock Purdy,
he might be who else out of nowhere a quarterback?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Uh, he might be.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
He might be uh Patrick mahomes is first year as
a starter.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
I don't know. I don't know, but I do know
what DA gets.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Wow. I mean, it's it's tough. You're right, because I'm
taking the cautious approach of I know what we have.
He's not Mahomes, he's not Burrow, but he's.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Really good, and I think we can get there with him.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
And you're your approach is legitimate because you're right, I mean,
you might get You don't know what one of these
guys might be, especially when you have that type of
talent around them.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
You just don't know what if he that interesting utilizes
all those weapons, Chris that are available, right, but he
could be a.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Bust and then you could go another four or five years,
you know what I mean without a good quarterback.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
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Speaker 5 (09:27):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern. But here's the thing, we
never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get to.
Speaker 6 (09:36):
And that's why we have a brand new podcast called
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our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber list lame and me.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
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Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
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will continue on our after show called over Promised.
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Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
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Speaker 6 (10:18):
There you go, over Promising. Remember you could see it
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Speaker 3 (10:30):
All right, Rob Jason Tatum, I don't know if we
have sound of it, but he spoke at the All
Star Game. We do, and he's fifth right now. Despite
the Celtics being the number one team in the league
as far as record, despite Jason Tatum averaging twenty seven points,
eight boards and about five assists five assists, team hihs,
(10:53):
by the way, in everything at leasan knows three twenty
seven points, eight and a half rebounds, four point eight assists,
leads the team. He's fifth in the MVP voting. Uh.
And he had a theory on why. Here's what he
said at the All Star Game.
Speaker 7 (11:10):
What I love to win. Yes, but you know, apparently
us losing the finals two years ago affects, you know,
with people think of me now. So I guess I
got some ground to make up. But you know, everybody
who has a vote, you know they vote. The criteria
is different, and everybody thinks differently, right, wrong or indifferent.
(11:31):
It is what it is. So you can't tell people
what they're what they should look for when they vote.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Let me say this quickly, Rob, I'm a voter. I
do not hold what Jason Tatum did in the finals
two years ago against him. That that doesn't even enter
my thinking on him in the All Star or in
the MVP race. I think what he's saying, what he's
responding to Rocau, you heard it, he said, Apparently he's
(11:59):
not saying this is my viewpoint. This is fact. He said,
like it's out there that people are holding that against me.
And he said that because on NBA to Day on ESPN,
Brian Winhorse said just that when Windhors didn't say he's
holding it against him, but he says he thinks some
voters do. I'm a voter. I'm not one that holds
(12:20):
that against them.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
People are holding stuff from two years ago. If he
had the best numbers this year, and that's why.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Here in first of all, I just have the best numbers.
He doesn't have to. But I'm gonna give you facts
for why I think it's clearly not true, at least
not with most voters, if not all voters. Lebron James.
We all remember he didn't light up the world in
his first finals, and he was about the same age
(12:47):
as Jason Tatum when Tatum led the Celtics to the finals.
Tatum was twenty three, Lebron was twenty two. They both
averaged about twenty two points a game. Both averaged seven rebounds,
seven assists. Both shot I mean Lebron actually shot slightly worse,
but both were around thirty five thirty six percent from
the field. And for all to talk about Jason Tatum's
(13:07):
turnovers in those playoffs, he had twenty three and six
games in the finals. Lebron had twenty three and four
games in those finals. And Lebron had not yet won
an MVP two years later, I believe it was Lebron
won his first MVP. So that's my point in saying
I don't think that's the factor or the main factor,
(13:28):
or at least with me, it's not a factor at all.
But I don't think it's a that's a big factor
as why he's not closer to the top of the
MVP race.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, I don't know. I've seen the NBA. We've seen
guys win the MVP Chris in the league, I could
think of Steve Nash. I think that Phoenix Suns teams
Chris were overly disappointing, right, Like, they didn't in the playoffs.
They're in the playoffs, never got to the finals. They
never got there. They won sixty games every year, all
(13:59):
the other stuff that went on. It had a loaded roster, right,
a really good coach and was suppose to all that,
and every year they never got to the finals. That
didn't stop people from voting Steve Nash back to back MVPs.
I just don't think that that really factors in. And
even before Chris Uh the Joker his two before not
(14:23):
winning last year when there was a drum beat out there, Uh,
the Nuggets hadn't done that much in the postseason either,
you know what I mean, And yet it didn't stop
people from looking at what he did, voting him.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
No no, prior to the right, right, right right.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Prior to that, when he won the other two, they
hadn't done much season wise. So I just don't I
just don't think that that factors in. I think it's
what you said is his numbers are very good, but
they're not the best numbers. So so he's he's thinking
he should be leading in MVP voting because I think he.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Was just asked about does he you like to win it?
I think, but look, you can argue that he shouldn't
be as low as fifth. But here here's a big
factor for me. Rob and Jason. Tatum is fantastic. He
is a legitimately great player, But he is I believe,
(15:19):
and I think most people believe this. He is a
scooch below the upper upper tier of the league, which
is only a couple of few players. Is that like
a mb a, pinch scooch, you know, skanch, whatever you
want to call it, mb Yannie, Luca and Jokic. I
(15:44):
think that's the those are the top four players in
the league, and Tatum is slightly below them, So I
do think that it's and his numbers aren't equal to theirs.
They rebound more, they pa They at least Luka and
Jokic get more assists. Giannis is a world class defender,
(16:10):
as is Embiid Like, they're just better and so for
for Jason Tatum to beat them out for MVP, he
I think he probably is going to have to maybe
win a championship before people view him in that class.
In that class and even now does.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Better doesn't mean that you would win, you know what
I mean, Say he wins it, his numbers are good,
He's got the third best numbers.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
He wins, he wins the championship Chris this year.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Next year, he's still to have to have numbers in
order for people to just saying.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
But I think if they won it this year, Robert
he led them to the championship, I do think the
following year he might be more of a candidate. He
just he signed yeah his stock with.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
You know what I mean, like, but it wouldn't automatically
mean no, no, that he's got Yeah, he's gonna get
it the next year.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Right now, it's interesting because Shae Gilders Alexander is second
in the MVP voting, and I do think I think
Shae is about the same class of player as Tatum,
which is that right that second Tarer? Now maybe he's
in that first tier. I think we'll see a lot
(17:29):
of the thinking, Rob is that you kind of establish
yourself in the playoffs. That's when we really see the cream.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Separate itself from the you know, the shaft, if you will, so.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Let me ask you the crop, let me ask you
this so so.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
But Shane's never been to the playoffs, so I think
is he getting the benefit of the doubt because we've
never seen him fail in the playoffs? And I don't
think Tatum failed because I think leading him to the
finals at twenty three was incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
But but I think when people looked at that, what
I mostly remember about that Chris is the turnovers.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Even though Lebron might have had more storyline, that was
more in the playoff, he had one hundred. I think
in the hole in the play he.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Was just he just couldn't hold onto the ball like
like that was the thing, and they was like, that's sloppy.
It wasn't like he was missing shots. You can't just
turn the ball over like that. So this year, obviously,
and beats heard, he's not gonna have the game amounts. Uh,
does the Joker have a better shot again? Chris now,
(18:32):
coming off the championship and what he was doing, he
had a historic run in the postseason.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Will that work in his favorite this year? I think
he's got a great shot. Like you said, I think
MVD was the clear front runner before, but now he's out.
He's not gonna he has no chance. He's missed too
many games. Luca is having a phenomenal year. Luca's averaging
third thirty four points, rob nine rebounds and nine and
(19:04):
a half assists are very close to a triple double.
The problem with Dallas and Luca is there the seventh
seed and I think widely viewed nothink rightly.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
So Rob is underachieving, wouldn't you agree? I mean, I
agreee yeah, you're under They should be they should be better.
That team went to the Western Conference finals without Kyrie.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yep, yeah, I mean, let's just and some of that's
on Kyrie, but it does reflect on Luca.
Speaker 8 (19:30):
Rob.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
You're the leader of the.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Team and you get the balance like that added to
your squad. Chris you gotta look at it and say
you you need to and even if there's an issue
with who has the ball and all that other stuff,
that's for you to figure out, Right, how do I
get the best out of Kyrie to make us a
better team?
Speaker 3 (19:49):
And you can again, you could say that's Luca, you
can say that's Jason Kidd, you can say that's Kyrie.
Bottom line is, it's hard for me to vote you
MVP if your team is underachieving. Now, that's one thing.
If you just won the championship and you're playing with
like Denver Rob they're a fourth seed and it's close
in the West, so the seeds are pretty close. But no,
(20:10):
even though we kind of understand Denver, yeah, they could
put their foot on the gas and maybe win sixty
three games, right, no reason too, and they're still close enough.
They're still winning a lot. And so I think Luka, well,
Luca is not the front runner. Probably is Yokic because
(20:32):
when you look at Giannis who Rob, he's putting up
phenomenal numbers. They're underachieving, right, they're not playing as well
as expected, and they got Damian Lillard. So I think
Jokic probably is the front runner. And now I would
have Tatum higher than five. I mean Tuma, Gil Rob
(20:54):
g you have you got uh Rob? You read the
top five to us discording at MGM.
Speaker 9 (21:01):
According to Lamar Mitchell, friend of the show, shout out
to Lamar bet MG so it was good seeing it
was great scene Lamar Moore in the last I.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Know we saw Chris in a year and a half.
Speaker 9 (21:14):
True, all right, So top to bottom whatever Chris best odds,
the worst odds one through five, Nikola Jokic minus one
thirty he means a heavy favorite. Joe l Embiid is
actually off the board there at bet mg.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Because he already miss games.
Speaker 9 (21:31):
Shay Gilgess, Alexander plus two ten, Luca and Yannis actually
tied for four third at plus nine hundred, so a
big gap there between two and three, and then way
down at plus twenty five hundred is Jason Tatum.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Here's what I'm just Look, Luca can't win it as
the seventh seed. I'm sorry. Russell Westbrook won it as
a sixth seed. He averaged triple double first time.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Which hadn't been done Chris right, and as we point out,
his record was way better when he got a triple
double for that team.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Yep, it wasn't just past stat Patty. Now, Joki rob
did win it as a sixth seed. I believe Rob G.
Can you confirm that. I believe he wonted the MVP
as a sixth seed. So I guess that's a precedent
for uh, that is correct? Yeah, okay, so that's a precedent.
(22:30):
If lucaf the Mavericks win fifty games, maybe you know,
you can justify it. But right now I think you
probably I probably would have Tatum ahead of Luca just
because of the wins and the team wins, and obviously
he's a light years ahead of Luca defensively and Lucas
team's underachieving. I think Luca is a better player individually,
(22:54):
but that has to be at some point, you know,
parlay itself into wins. So probably right now it's it's Yokic.
It's Yokic, And I.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
Don't even what would that be? Three out of four?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Right? Three? Yeah? And I don't want to say it
like I'm disappointed, but man, right, and this is something
we've talked about, is the numbers today Yo kicch is
averaging twenty six points, twelve rebounds, and nine assists on
fifty eight positions. The numbers are crazy. But Rob jokicch
(23:29):
is fourteenth in the league in scoring. At Chris, think
about that. Yeah, And so the numbers his points per
game don't look incredible because you got you know, four
other guys averaging thirty and then several in between there
and where Yokic is at Shae. Rob is getting a
(23:49):
lot of love and Shae is phenomenal. Uh, he doesn't
have that second star even though check Hombren is emerging.
And I think that's you know, they're the second seed,
I believe, even the West. So that's one reason you
know Shaye is up there. But I don't know if
you I don't think you put him ahead of Yogis.
But Sha, Shae has a shot. Shae has a great shot.
(24:11):
He's thirty one point six and six and a half assists.
It'll be it'll be.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Hard to pass up the joker, just just.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
From the numbers you're talking about Chris.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Uh, and he's not that far.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I don't know, is he out of the realm of
possibility of averaging a triple double with the nine.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
He No, he's I mean he's in striking distance. I
don't know. I don't know what his nine point is
about twelve assists, yeast.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Away or something, but he ain't. It ain't like out
the ballpark.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
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Speaker 3 (24:54):
Of course, a lot of talk about the All Star Game.
At the All Star Our Game over the weekend, all
types of things were broached, topics, subjects broached, and Kevin
Durant has been talking on his podcast The Boardroom, and
he addressed Lebron James is great, incredible longevity along with
(25:21):
the goat argument. Here's what Kadie had to say.
Speaker 8 (25:24):
When he was in this fourteenth fifteenth year. I was
just like, when he's just seventeenth, eighteenth year, it's just like, damn,
that's actually as dope. Well he thirty nine r twentieth year,
and then like half your life is in the league
and then you played against like forty percent of the
players that's ever played in the league. It's just like
that longevity has to mean something that has to be
(25:46):
a standard, Like if you really truly want to know
what greatness is like, of course, you can accumulate championships
in a short amount of time and accohlades and a
short amount of time, you can have a nice quick
spurt of But I truly appreciate somebody who's been at
it for a long time.
Speaker 10 (26:05):
I got to tell something, So this is sacrilegious. I
grew up in the nineties. Michael Jordan broke the Knick's
heart and broke the Pacier's heart when my man Mark
Jackson was there. He created this basketball culture. Jordan's shoes
six seven billion dollar business a year. But if we're
going to stick to the conversation that we talk about
(26:26):
accolades and body of work, Lebron's body of work is
second to none.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
It is second to me. It is it is, it is,
this is his consistency is showing up now. So Katie
didn't I mean, he said his body of work is
second to none. So I don't know it's that saying
he's the goat. I don't know. I'm not gonna put
words in Katie's mouth. But Rob, you and I have
(26:51):
talked about the longevity factor in determining goats, and look,
the goat talk is largely subjective. There is no absolute
right answer. As much as you and I think it's
Michael Jordan and Lebron is.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Second, I.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Mean your law as you're not being foolish. I mean,
there's only a handful of guys you can really fairly
put in there if you heck, if you want to
put Bill Russell in there, somebody could try to do that.
Kareem's legitimately in there if somebody wants to try to
throw magic or I mean, but generally it boils down
to three Rob and that's Lebron, Kareem and Jordan. Uh
(27:34):
And like most people I think clearly believe it's Jordan.
Where do you I've got my views. Where are you
on the longevity factor in the league, because look, if
Lebron is I mean, we've never seen a player this
great at this stage of his career, twenty first year
(27:55):
in the league. It's incredible what he's doing. But it's
still to me he doesn't outweigh what Michael Jordan did
because of Lebron's longevity. I think Rob, when you measure
the greats of all time, the goats, my view is
(28:16):
that peak overrides longevity as long as that peak was
in the midst of a career that was substantial in length.
Michael Jordan played fifteen years, or if you take out Washington,
which we don't, but he played thirteen years in Chicago,
(28:37):
so like his career was right, I do think, yeah,
if somebody played eight years, won five rings and eight
I mean you, I guess you'd have an argument because
you'd be like, look, the dude came and dominated and
broke you know, broke out. But still as long as
your career was substantial in length, I think the peak
(29:01):
outweighs the longevity and rob I use this quick example.
They're a handful of people I guess that think EMMITTT.
Smith is the best running back ever and he was
an all time great, no doubt, and probably top five.
But I think most people look at a Jim Brown,
maybe a Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson ahead of Emmett I
(29:25):
think Hank Aaron, who never hit fifty homers in a season.
He's not typically viewed as the greatest baseball player because
a Babe Ruth of Barry Bonds had a higher peak
than him. Sandy Kofak some people think he's the greatest pitcher,
but his career was calling right, but his peak was incredible.
(29:45):
So that's why I think I think it's peak Rob
and I think Jordan's peak was higher than Lebron's.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Yeah, the longevity thing doesn't work for me.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
It just doesn't.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Being around a long time, Chris, because we talked about it.
The long Lebron plays and doesn't win, I don't think
that helps his longevity argument.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
It's easier ever than ever before.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
The score so that that that's not like, oh my god,
look at what Lebron's doing at age thirty nine.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
For everybody's scoring.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
All the scoring is up right, But we talk about
impact of winning. That's what doesn't happen anymore. Lebron puts
up these numbers, but his team doesn't win. There were
eleventh Lebron and ad on a team and they are
eleventh in the common night okay night.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
To me, Chris, that mean they would be a playoff team, right,
you know, not the old day just five years ago.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
That that's a demerit to me if he wasn't making
the playoffs. Talking about longevity, can I tell you a
couple other you brought up? Hank eraon Hank Aaron has
incredible numbers Chris twenty four seed, made the All Star
Team twenty four times. Okay, twenty four seasons, Chris averaged
one hundred RBIs averaged incredible numbers. If you take away
(31:03):
Hank Aaron's seven hundred and fifty five home runs from
his hit total, Chris, he still has three thousand hits,
which is another milestone, right, like three thousand by itself.
So he has all these numbers. He's played all these years.
He's not considered the greatest. Gordy Hawe played twenty six
(31:23):
NHL seasons, Chris twenty six. His nickname mister Hockey. Twenty
five years he played with the Red Wings. Right, all
that he was a great player, Yep, Nobody thinks he's
better than Wayne Gretzky and Yager and some of these
other players who have come after Nobody. Okay, So the
(31:44):
longevity thing is is important, but it doesn't dictate who's
the best player because it has to be a combination
of things, not just winning.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Michael Jordan, people need to get off.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
It ain't just winning, right, ten straights, going titles, Defensive
Player of the Year, Chris, all kinds of other accolades
that is too long to list.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
It ain't just the six rings.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
That's not If that's the case, Robert RII would be
raved about. We know there's a difference between Robert URI's
rings and Michael Jordan's rings. Right, There's a big difference.
So I don't buy into this whole idea. Nobody's taking
it away from Lebron. But if Lebron plays twenty four
NBA seasons and wins four championships, right, Chris Ann hadn't
(32:34):
won in his last eight years in the league. How
is that that's the way you're gonna feel like, Oh,
he's the greatest guy I ever saw play.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah. That's the thing is that they are two sides
to the longevity argument. I mean, Rod, we've talked and
this it might slightly impact Lebron's numbers, but probably not really.
But we look at Vince Carter, who actually is up
for the Hall of Fame. I think Vince is a
Hall of Famer. But if his Carter played so long
(33:02):
that his career numbers because his last several years weren't
you know, he wasn't putting up big numbers. I mean
he played, he played twenty two years, and rob Vince Carter,
who was one of the greatest scorers in the league
at one point. Guess how many points he averaged for
his career seventeen sixteen point seven. But that's because like
(33:26):
his last ten or so, he wasn't really scoring.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
And a lot of people don't even know him as
that player. They don't remember how great, don't remember him.
Dwight Howard's a prime current example. People don't remember how great.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Dwhite was because he played a lot of these years
as a mediocre player. So longevity can work against you.
And obviously Lebron's still playing at an incredibly high rate.
But Rob, that is the other side of longevity. Michael
Jordan won a championship every two and a half years
of his career, and that's including the Washington years when
(34:00):
he came back old with a bad team, and Lebron
right at this point, it's it's won every five years sok.
Jordan won at twice the rate Lebron at this point,
and so that's the other side of longevity. So yeah,
I agree, I don't think you can use that as
(34:22):
the driving point in the goat argument. And Rod, we
talk about this and we want people to understand this
because you hear it all the time. Oh it's just rings. No,
it be nuanced when you debate the goat. If your
whether it's calling up here, just in your own discussions,
barbershop talk, whatever it is, it's a nuance, right, it's
(34:43):
a nuanced discussion. It is not just rings. It is
not just stats. If it was just rings, it be
Bill Russell. If it was just that's who was the caller?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Was it?
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Jerome called in said, it's Will Chamber about records. It
just stins. It's a combination of winning individual dominance, team dominance,
your your skills, set, your the eye test, the competition,
all of this stuff. Who your teammates were, all of that,
(35:15):
Chris about about people didn't eat, the great players who
didn't eat and get a championship? Right, and then you
the flip side, We could say that Lebron okay, during
his ear, his long run, who didn't win a championship? Chris, everybody,
everybody who's probably who's player for the most part one
(35:38):
won a ring. Yeah, Dirk and Duncan and you know.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
Step one as many as Lebron has won.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean that that is a fact. Like
I say, like the way Lebron shut down the Eastern Conference.
He had it on lock. I mean teams were shook,
literally shook when they faced him in the Eastern Conference
finals and it was great. But guess what Jordan did
that to the entire league? Right, that's talking about the
(36:08):
whole league on lock now talking.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
About Hall of Famers, Chris right just to I think
he's got ten Hall of famers who couldn't sniff the
championship trophy.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
I think that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
And they never took him to a game seven other
than I mean he went seven in the East, but
never in the finals.
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brusson and Ron Parker.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Rob, there's big news coming out of the NFL. Dak Prescott,
who had a great regular season I thought the best
year of his career.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Because he's gonna matter most.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, anxictary, he is up for a new contract extension
that the Cowboys, I mean, if they're gonna keep him,
they have to do essentially so they can, you know,
move some money around and have some money to give
to Micah Parsons and CD and some of these other guys.
But the report says, and Rob g correct me if
I'm wrong, that Dak Prescott Robb won sixty million dollars
(01:09):
per year. Now, Joe Burrow currently is the highest paid
quarterback in the NFL, making fifty five million dollars a year.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Rob Parker what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
No way know, how would I give Dak Prescott sixty million.
I don't care Chris if he's in line for it,
and we know how it goes.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
It's all about.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
When your contracts up, and the next guy is usually
the highest paid guy.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
But at some point you got to buck the trend.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
If you're the Dallas Cowboys, you gotta say we're not
paying you that. Can we put on the film of
the playoff game you had against Green Bay, that debacle,
and look at your postseason record, and look at the
years that we've lost postseason games at home and struggle offensively.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
We're not doing it.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
And if you want to stay a part of the
Dallas Cowboys and you want to keep making all that
endorsement money for being a count a quarterback on the
Dallas Cowboys, you're going to give us a Texas discount?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
What do they say, Chris?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Everything's bigger in Texas, including a discount. When you think
in the postseason the Cowboys and Jerry Jones should demand
a discount from Dak Prescott and Michael Parsons, Please stop it.
Other than Patrick Mahomes in the AFC, No, what you're
(02:40):
going to back who's known as what just Dak? Please
stop it, stop because Dak has done nothing.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Joe Burrow, Joe Burrow's been to a Super Bowl. Mark
Jackson MVPs, stop it. I mean, I mean, Josh Dallen's better.
I don't know that he's done. I mean he's been
first these guys, but still he's better than Dak.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Chris he he got the he led the Bills to
the leading touchdown before the last twelve seconds when the
defense gave it up.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
You remember they were behind.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
He led them to that touchdown to set it up
where he could have been going to the super Bowl.
But anyway, my point is Dak hasn't done enough to
deserve a sixty million dollars a year contract. I don't
care if he's next man up. And that's how it's
been going. Pay the people, not the position. Pay the people,
not the position. That's what the Dallas Cowboys should do.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
I hear you. I agree with essentially your main point.
But obviously, and I think you would you do it
in a different tone. But if I'm the Cowboys, riber
I am sitting down with Dak and saying, look, Dak,
we gotta pay Micah I'm sure you want Michael back.
We gotta pay CD. I know you want CD back
(04:01):
is your number one target, and we need to improve. Dak.
You had a great regular season, but what's gonna make
you an immortal, at least with the Cowboys is a
super Bowl. We can't win the super Bowl without these guys.
We can't keep these guys if you're making sixty million dollars.
(04:24):
I'm trying to appeal to him. Now, Dak, we think
you're you know, you're our guy. We love you, We
want you to be our quarterback going forward, and we
also understand that you you know, look what you don't
make from us, you will make up off the field.
(04:45):
Because you're the Dallas Cowboys quarterback.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
He's on every commercial, Cris right, and I try to
appeal to and I'm Rob.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I'm not gonna insult him. I'll give him fifty two
something in that range. You know, I'm not trying to,
you know, give us, you know, thirty seven forty something
like that. But that's what I'm gonna try to do.
And look, I get there's if you're Dak, Rob, you
(05:13):
know how it works. You might even do this if
you were in Dak shoes. If you're Dak, you got
every right to go for every penny you want.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
But I'm not saying he can't ask for it. I'm
just telling the cowboys don't get to him. But I've
never told a guy can't ask for it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, I'm just saying if i'm I think Dak. Now,
people might say I'm wrong, but look either way, I mean,
nothing you can do with sixty million you can't do
with fifty two. So Dak should realize, you know, I'll
give him a little, a little discount because I love
(05:52):
being a cowboy. I understand I do get the benefits
I get. Rob I've said it before. When I was
at esp in years ago, I could have went somewhere.
I don't know if it's I think it might have
been my third contract with them. I could have went
somewhere else and made more money, but I would not
have had the exposure and everything that I had on ESPN.
(06:15):
Plus I liked what I was doing, and so I
stayed at ESPN and making less money. And so I
think dakne If Dak really loves being a cowboy, if
he really loves being the face of America's team, then
I think he should be willing to take a little haircut. Again,
(06:36):
nothing insulting, but a little haircut. Also, it's hard for
people to do this, but maybe looking in the mirror saying,
you know what, I didn't deliver. I didn't deliver. And
so I think that now I might be people might
think that's Pollyannish, right, Chris, And that kind of does.
Like I said, I spoke from my experience, but DK.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yeah, but I would say, you're not the norm.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I'm just well, Tom Brady did it all the time.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Yeah, but he had a wife who was making a
gazillion dollars.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Come on, it wasn't I mean many, I know, but
that even if his wife was penniless, he still was
making enough money where it didn't matter. And so that's
my point, Like, you know, I was making good money
either way. And so I'm just saying, Dak, Now, look
(07:28):
that maybe Dak's like I got him. I got them
between a rock and a hard place, right, Because here's
where I do Here's where I think you and I disagree.
I think they gotta bring Dak back. I don't think that.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I don't think they have to bring Dak back. I know,
Kuch financially.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
See some video of Trey Lance that I ain't see.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
No, it ain't even that. It ain't even that. What's
the difference, I mean, what what's really the differencetween Trey
Lance and dak No the idea of having Dac there.
You haven't won anything, you haven't done anything that's especial.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
A very good quarterback. You would admit that.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I say that, But but but really, Chris, I mean,
at this point, I would take.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
The unknown over the known.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
The known is this guy can't get it done when
it matters. That's the known. The unknown is, I don't know.
I might bring somebody in and he might be Rock Purdy,
he might be who else out of nowhere a quarterback?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Uh, he might be.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
He might be uh Patrick mahomes is first year as
a starter.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
I don't know. I don't know, but I do know
what DA gets.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Wow. I mean, it's it's tough. You're right, because I'm
taking the cautious approach of I know what we have.
He's not Mahomes, he's not Burrow, but he's.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Really good, and I think we can get there with him.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
And you're your approach is legitimate because you're right, I mean,
you might get You don't know what one of these
guys might be, especially when you have that type of
talent around them.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
You just don't know what if he that interesting utilizes
all those weapons, Chris that are available, right, but he
could be a.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Bust and then you could go another four or five years,
you know what I mean without a good quarterback.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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listen live.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern. But here's the thing, we
never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get to.
Speaker 6 (09:36):
And that's why we have a brand new podcast called
over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in
our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber list lame and me.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 6 (09:54):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also going to
talk life and relationships, and if Rich and I are
arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it
will continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also Uncensored, by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 6 (10:18):
There you go, over Promising. Remember you could see it
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised with
Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
All right, Rob Jason Tatum, I don't know if we
have sound of it, but he spoke at the All
Star Game. We do, and he's fifth right now. Despite
the Celtics being the number one team in the league
as far as record, despite Jason Tatum averaging twenty seven points,
eight boards and about five assists five assists, team hihs,
(10:53):
by the way, in everything at leasan knows three twenty
seven points, eight and a half rebounds, four point eight assists,
leads the team. He's fifth in the MVP voting. Uh.
And he had a theory on why. Here's what he
said at the All Star Game.
Speaker 7 (11:10):
What I love to win. Yes, but you know, apparently
us losing the finals two years ago affects, you know,
with people think of me now. So I guess I
got some ground to make up. But you know, everybody
who has a vote, you know they vote. The criteria
is different, and everybody thinks differently, right, wrong or indifferent.
(11:31):
It is what it is. So you can't tell people
what they're what they should look for when they vote.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Let me say this quickly, Rob, I'm a voter. I
do not hold what Jason Tatum did in the finals
two years ago against him. That that doesn't even enter
my thinking on him in the All Star or in
the MVP race. I think what he's saying, what he's
responding to Rocau, you heard it, he said, Apparently he's
(11:59):
not saying this is my viewpoint. This is fact. He said,
like it's out there that people are holding that against me.
And he said that because on NBA to Day on ESPN,
Brian Winhorse said just that when Windhors didn't say he's
holding it against him, but he says he thinks some
voters do. I'm a voter. I'm not one that holds
(12:20):
that against them.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
People are holding stuff from two years ago. If he
had the best numbers this year, and that's why.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Here in first of all, I just have the best numbers.
He doesn't have to. But I'm gonna give you facts
for why I think it's clearly not true, at least
not with most voters, if not all voters. Lebron James.
We all remember he didn't light up the world in
his first finals, and he was about the same age
(12:47):
as Jason Tatum when Tatum led the Celtics to the finals.
Tatum was twenty three, Lebron was twenty two. They both
averaged about twenty two points a game. Both averaged seven rebounds,
seven assists. Both shot I mean Lebron actually shot slightly worse,
but both were around thirty five thirty six percent from
the field. And for all to talk about Jason Tatum's
(13:07):
turnovers in those playoffs, he had twenty three and six
games in the finals. Lebron had twenty three and four
games in those finals. And Lebron had not yet won
an MVP two years later, I believe it was Lebron
won his first MVP. So that's my point in saying
I don't think that's the factor or the main factor,
(13:28):
or at least with me, it's not a factor at all.
But I don't think it's a that's a big factor
as why he's not closer to the top of the
MVP race.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, I don't know. I've seen the NBA. We've seen
guys win the MVP Chris in the league, I could
think of Steve Nash. I think that Phoenix Suns teams
Chris were overly disappointing, right, Like, they didn't in the playoffs.
They're in the playoffs, never got to the finals. They
never got there. They won sixty games every year, all
(13:59):
the other stuff that went on. It had a loaded roster, right,
a really good coach and was suppose to all that,
and every year they never got to the finals. That
didn't stop people from voting Steve Nash back to back MVPs.
I just don't think that that really factors in. And
even before Chris Uh the Joker his two before not
(14:23):
winning last year when there was a drum beat out there, Uh,
the Nuggets hadn't done that much in the postseason either,
you know what I mean, And yet it didn't stop
people from looking at what he did, voting him.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
No no, prior to the right, right, right right.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Prior to that, when he won the other two, they
hadn't done much season wise. So I just don't I
just don't think that that factors in. I think it's
what you said is his numbers are very good, but
they're not the best numbers. So so he's he's thinking
he should be leading in MVP voting because I think he.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Was just asked about does he you like to win it?
I think, but look, you can argue that he shouldn't
be as low as fifth. But here here's a big
factor for me. Rob and Jason. Tatum is fantastic. He
is a legitimately great player, But he is I believe,
(15:19):
and I think most people believe this. He is a
scooch below the upper upper tier of the league, which
is only a couple of few players. Is that like
a mb a, pinch scooch, you know, skanch, whatever you
want to call it, mb Yannie, Luca and Jokic. I
(15:44):
think that's the those are the top four players in
the league, and Tatum is slightly below them, So I
do think that it's and his numbers aren't equal to theirs.
They rebound more, they pa They at least Luka and
Jokic get more assists. Giannis is a world class defender,
(16:10):
as is Embiid Like, they're just better and so for
for Jason Tatum to beat them out for MVP, he
I think he probably is going to have to maybe
win a championship before people view him in that class.
In that class and even now does.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Better doesn't mean that you would win, you know what
I mean, Say he wins it, his numbers are good,
He's got the third best numbers.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
He wins, he wins the championship Chris this year.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Next year, he's still to have to have numbers in
order for people to just saying.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
But I think if they won it this year, Robert
he led them to the championship, I do think the
following year he might be more of a candidate. He
just he signed yeah his stock with.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
You know what I mean, like, but it wouldn't automatically
mean no, no, that he's got Yeah, he's gonna get
it the next year.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Right now, it's interesting because Shae Gilders Alexander is second
in the MVP voting, and I do think I think
Shae is about the same class of player as Tatum,
which is that right that second Tarer? Now maybe he's
in that first tier. I think we'll see a lot
(17:29):
of the thinking, Rob is that you kind of establish
yourself in the playoffs. That's when we really see the cream.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Separate itself from the you know, the shaft, if you will, so.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Let me ask you the crop, let me ask you
this so so.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
But Shane's never been to the playoffs, so I think
is he getting the benefit of the doubt because we've
never seen him fail in the playoffs? And I don't
think Tatum failed because I think leading him to the
finals at twenty three was incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
But but I think when people looked at that, what
I mostly remember about that Chris is the turnovers.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Even though Lebron might have had more storyline, that was
more in the playoff, he had one hundred. I think
in the hole in the play he.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Was just he just couldn't hold onto the ball like
like that was the thing, and they was like, that's sloppy.
It wasn't like he was missing shots. You can't just
turn the ball over like that. So this year, obviously,
and beats heard, he's not gonna have the game amounts. Uh,
does the Joker have a better shot again? Chris now,
(18:32):
coming off the championship and what he was doing, he
had a historic run in the postseason.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Will that work in his favorite this year? I think
he's got a great shot. Like you said, I think
MVD was the clear front runner before, but now he's out.
He's not gonna he has no chance. He's missed too
many games. Luca is having a phenomenal year. Luca's averaging
third thirty four points, rob nine rebounds and nine and
(19:04):
a half assists are very close to a triple double.
The problem with Dallas and Luca is there the seventh
seed and I think widely viewed nothink rightly.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
So Rob is underachieving, wouldn't you agree? I mean, I
agreee yeah, you're under They should be they should be better.
That team went to the Western Conference finals without Kyrie.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yep, yeah, I mean, let's just and some of that's
on Kyrie, but it does reflect on Luca.
Speaker 8 (19:30):
Rob.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
You're the leader of the.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Team and you get the balance like that added to
your squad. Chris you gotta look at it and say
you you need to and even if there's an issue
with who has the ball and all that other stuff,
that's for you to figure out, Right, how do I
get the best out of Kyrie to make us a
better team?
Speaker 3 (19:49):
And you can again, you could say that's Luca, you
can say that's Jason Kidd, you can say that's Kyrie.
Bottom line is, it's hard for me to vote you
MVP if your team is underachieving. Now, that's one thing.
If you just won the championship and you're playing with
like Denver Rob they're a fourth seed and it's close
in the West, so the seeds are pretty close. But no,
(20:10):
even though we kind of understand Denver, yeah, they could
put their foot on the gas and maybe win sixty
three games, right, no reason too, and they're still close enough.
They're still winning a lot. And so I think Luka, well,
Luca is not the front runner. Probably is Yokic because
(20:32):
when you look at Giannis who Rob, he's putting up
phenomenal numbers. They're underachieving, right, they're not playing as well
as expected, and they got Damian Lillard. So I think
Jokic probably is the front runner. And now I would
have Tatum higher than five. I mean Tuma, Gil Rob
(20:54):
g you have you got uh Rob? You read the
top five to us discording at MGM.
Speaker 9 (21:01):
According to Lamar Mitchell, friend of the show, shout out
to Lamar bet MG so it was good seeing it
was great scene Lamar Moore in the last I.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Know we saw Chris in a year and a half.
Speaker 9 (21:14):
True, all right, So top to bottom whatever Chris best odds,
the worst odds one through five, Nikola Jokic minus one
thirty he means a heavy favorite. Joe l Embiid is
actually off the board there at bet mg.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Because he already miss games.
Speaker 9 (21:31):
Shay Gilgess, Alexander plus two ten, Luca and Yannis actually
tied for four third at plus nine hundred, so a
big gap there between two and three, and then way
down at plus twenty five hundred is Jason Tatum.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Here's what I'm just Look, Luca can't win it as
the seventh seed. I'm sorry. Russell Westbrook won it as
a sixth seed. He averaged triple double first time.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Which hadn't been done Chris right, and as we point out,
his record was way better when he got a triple
double for that team.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Yep, it wasn't just past stat Patty. Now, Joki rob
did win it as a sixth seed. I believe Rob G.
Can you confirm that. I believe he wonted the MVP
as a sixth seed. So I guess that's a precedent
for uh, that is correct? Yeah, okay, so that's a precedent.
(22:30):
If lucaf the Mavericks win fifty games, maybe you know,
you can justify it. But right now I think you
probably I probably would have Tatum ahead of Luca just
because of the wins and the team wins, and obviously
he's a light years ahead of Luca defensively and Lucas
team's underachieving. I think Luca is a better player individually,
(22:54):
but that has to be at some point, you know,
parlay itself into wins. So probably right now it's it's Yokic.
It's Yokic, And I.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
Don't even what would that be? Three out of four?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Right? Three? Yeah? And I don't want to say it
like I'm disappointed, but man, right, and this is something
we've talked about, is the numbers today Yo kicch is
averaging twenty six points, twelve rebounds, and nine assists on
fifty eight positions. The numbers are crazy. But Rob jokicch
(23:29):
is fourteenth in the league in scoring. At Chris, think
about that. Yeah, And so the numbers his points per
game don't look incredible because you got you know, four
other guys averaging thirty and then several in between there
and where Yokic is at Shae. Rob is getting a
(23:49):
lot of love and Shae is phenomenal. Uh, he doesn't
have that second star even though check Hombren is emerging.
And I think that's you know, they're the second seed,
I believe, even the West. So that's one reason you
know Shaye is up there. But I don't know if
you I don't think you put him ahead of Yogis.
But Sha, Shae has a shot. Shae has a great shot.
(24:11):
He's thirty one point six and six and a half assists.
It'll be it'll be.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Hard to pass up the joker, just just.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
From the numbers you're talking about Chris.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Uh, and he's not that far.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I don't know, is he out of the realm of
possibility of averaging a triple double with the nine.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
He No, he's I mean he's in striking distance. I
don't know. I don't know what his nine point is
about twelve assists, yeast.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Away or something, but he ain't. It ain't like out
the ballpark.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
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Speaker 3 (24:54):
Of course, a lot of talk about the All Star Game.
At the All Star Our Game over the weekend, all
types of things were broached, topics, subjects broached, and Kevin
Durant has been talking on his podcast The Boardroom, and
he addressed Lebron James is great, incredible longevity along with
(25:21):
the goat argument. Here's what Kadie had to say.
Speaker 8 (25:24):
When he was in this fourteenth fifteenth year. I was
just like, when he's just seventeenth, eighteenth year, it's just like, damn,
that's actually as dope. Well he thirty nine r twentieth year,
and then like half your life is in the league
and then you played against like forty percent of the
players that's ever played in the league. It's just like
that longevity has to mean something that has to be
(25:46):
a standard, Like if you really truly want to know
what greatness is like, of course, you can accumulate championships
in a short amount of time and accohlades and a
short amount of time, you can have a nice quick
spurt of But I truly appreciate somebody who's been at
it for a long time.
Speaker 10 (26:05):
I got to tell something, So this is sacrilegious. I
grew up in the nineties. Michael Jordan broke the Knick's
heart and broke the Pacier's heart when my man Mark
Jackson was there. He created this basketball culture. Jordan's shoes
six seven billion dollar business a year. But if we're
going to stick to the conversation that we talk about
(26:26):
accolades and body of work, Lebron's body of work is
second to none.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
It is second to me. It is it is, it is,
this is his consistency is showing up now. So Katie
didn't I mean, he said his body of work is
second to none. So I don't know it's that saying
he's the goat. I don't know. I'm not gonna put
words in Katie's mouth. But Rob, you and I have
(26:51):
talked about the longevity factor in determining goats, and look,
the goat talk is largely subjective. There is no absolute
right answer. As much as you and I think it's
Michael Jordan and Lebron is.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Second, I.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Mean your law as you're not being foolish. I mean,
there's only a handful of guys you can really fairly
put in there if you heck, if you want to
put Bill Russell in there, somebody could try to do that.
Kareem's legitimately in there if somebody wants to try to
throw magic or I mean, but generally it boils down
to three Rob and that's Lebron, Kareem and Jordan. Uh
(27:34):
And like most people I think clearly believe it's Jordan.
Where do you I've got my views. Where are you
on the longevity factor in the league, because look, if
Lebron is I mean, we've never seen a player this
great at this stage of his career, twenty first year
(27:55):
in the league. It's incredible what he's doing. But it's
still to me he doesn't outweigh what Michael Jordan did
because of Lebron's longevity. I think Rob, when you measure
the greats of all time, the goats, my view is
(28:16):
that peak overrides longevity as long as that peak was
in the midst of a career that was substantial in length.
Michael Jordan played fifteen years, or if you take out Washington,
which we don't, but he played thirteen years in Chicago,
(28:37):
so like his career was right, I do think, yeah,
if somebody played eight years, won five rings and eight
I mean you, I guess you'd have an argument because
you'd be like, look, the dude came and dominated and
broke you know, broke out. But still as long as
your career was substantial in length, I think the peak
(29:01):
outweighs the longevity and rob I use this quick example.
They're a handful of people I guess that think EMMITTT.
Smith is the best running back ever and he was
an all time great, no doubt, and probably top five.
But I think most people look at a Jim Brown,
maybe a Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson ahead of Emmett I
(29:25):
think Hank Aaron, who never hit fifty homers in a season.
He's not typically viewed as the greatest baseball player because
a Babe Ruth of Barry Bonds had a higher peak
than him. Sandy Kofak some people think he's the greatest pitcher,
but his career was calling right, but his peak was incredible.
(29:45):
So that's why I think I think it's peak Rob
and I think Jordan's peak was higher than Lebron's.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Yeah, the longevity thing doesn't work for me.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
It just doesn't.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Being around a long time, Chris, because we talked about it.
The long Lebron plays and doesn't win, I don't think
that helps his longevity argument.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
It's easier ever than ever before.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
The score so that that that's not like, oh my god,
look at what Lebron's doing at age thirty nine.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
For everybody's scoring.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
All the scoring is up right, But we talk about
impact of winning. That's what doesn't happen anymore. Lebron puts
up these numbers, but his team doesn't win. There were
eleventh Lebron and ad on a team and they are
eleventh in the common night okay night.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
To me, Chris, that mean they would be a playoff team, right,
you know, not the old day just five years ago.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
That that's a demerit to me if he wasn't making
the playoffs. Talking about longevity, can I tell you a
couple other you brought up? Hank eraon Hank Aaron has
incredible numbers Chris twenty four seed, made the All Star
Team twenty four times. Okay, twenty four seasons, Chris averaged
one hundred RBIs averaged incredible numbers. If you take away
(31:03):
Hank Aaron's seven hundred and fifty five home runs from
his hit total, Chris, he still has three thousand hits,
which is another milestone, right, like three thousand by itself.
So he has all these numbers. He's played all these years.
He's not considered the greatest. Gordy Hawe played twenty six
(31:23):
NHL seasons, Chris twenty six. His nickname mister Hockey. Twenty
five years he played with the Red Wings. Right, all
that he was a great player, Yep, Nobody thinks he's
better than Wayne Gretzky and Yager and some of these
other players who have come after Nobody. Okay, So the
(31:44):
longevity thing is is important, but it doesn't dictate who's
the best player because it has to be a combination
of things, not just winning.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Michael Jordan, people need to get off.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
It ain't just winning, right, ten straights, going titles, Defensive
Player of the Year, Chris, all kinds of other accolades
that is too long to list.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
It ain't just the six rings.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
That's not If that's the case, Robert RII would be
raved about. We know there's a difference between Robert URI's
rings and Michael Jordan's rings. Right, There's a big difference.
So I don't buy into this whole idea. Nobody's taking
it away from Lebron. But if Lebron plays twenty four
NBA seasons and wins four championships, right, Chris Ann hadn't
(32:34):
won in his last eight years in the league. How
is that that's the way you're gonna feel like, Oh,
he's the greatest guy I ever saw play.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah. That's the thing is that they are two sides
to the longevity argument. I mean, Rod, we've talked and
this it might slightly impact Lebron's numbers, but probably not really.
But we look at Vince Carter, who actually is up
for the Hall of Fame. I think Vince is a
Hall of Famer. But if his Carter played so long
(33:02):
that his career numbers because his last several years weren't
you know, he wasn't putting up big numbers. I mean
he played, he played twenty two years, and rob Vince Carter,
who was one of the greatest scorers in the league
at one point. Guess how many points he averaged for
his career seventeen sixteen point seven. But that's because like
(33:26):
his last ten or so, he wasn't really scoring.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
And a lot of people don't even know him as
that player. They don't remember how great, don't remember him.
Dwight Howard's a prime current example. People don't remember how great.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Dwhite was because he played a lot of these years
as a mediocre player. So longevity can work against you.
And obviously Lebron's still playing at an incredibly high rate.
But Rob, that is the other side of longevity. Michael
Jordan won a championship every two and a half years
of his career, and that's including the Washington years when
(34:00):
he came back old with a bad team, and Lebron
right at this point, it's it's won every five years sok.
Jordan won at twice the rate Lebron at this point,
and so that's the other side of longevity. So yeah,
I agree, I don't think you can use that as
(34:22):
the driving point in the goat argument. And Rod, we
talk about this and we want people to understand this
because you hear it all the time. Oh it's just rings. No,
it be nuanced when you debate the goat. If your
whether it's calling up here, just in your own discussions,
barbershop talk, whatever it is, it's a nuance, right, it's
(34:43):
a nuanced discussion. It is not just rings. It is
not just stats. If it was just rings, it be
Bill Russell. If it was just that's who was the caller?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Was it?
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Jerome called in said, it's Will Chamber about records. It
just stins. It's a combination of winning individual dominance, team dominance,
your your skills, set, your the eye test, the competition,
all of this stuff. Who your teammates were, all of that,
(35:15):
Chris about about people didn't eat, the great players who
didn't eat and get a championship? Right, and then you
the flip side, We could say that Lebron okay, during
his ear, his long run, who didn't win a championship? Chris, everybody,
everybody who's probably who's player for the most part one
(35:38):
won a ring. Yeah, Dirk and Duncan and you know.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
Step one as many as Lebron has won.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean that that is a fact. Like
I say, like the way Lebron shut down the Eastern Conference.
He had it on lock. I mean teams were shook,
literally shook when they faced him in the Eastern Conference
finals and it was great. But guess what Jordan did
that to the entire league? Right, that's talking about the
(36:08):
whole league on lock now talking.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
About Hall of Famers, Chris right just to I think
he's got ten Hall of famers who couldn't sniff the
championship trophy.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
I think that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
And they never took him to a game seven other
than I mean he went seven in the East, but
never in the finals.
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