May 28, 2024 • 36 mins
Chris and Rob debate whether style points should matter for the Boston Celtics on their way to the NBA Finals, explain why Bronny James choosing to work out only for the Phoenix Suns and Los Angeles Lakers makes zero sense and tell us why Major League Baseball deserves a ton of credit for integrating Negro League stats into their own historical record books.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brusa and Ron Parker.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
All right, ROB, let's start. You have made it clear
you said you.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Are picking the Boston Celtics to win the championship. Looks
like they'll face Dallas, but either way, you're going with
the Celtics. And they just completed a dominant run ROB
through the Eastern Conference playoffs.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
They were twelve and two.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
They obviously had a great regular season as well. They
won sixty four games, by far the best than the league,
and they enter the finals ROB with a seventy six
and twenty record over the regular season and the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
ROB, only.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Nine teams have entered the finals with twenty or fewer losses.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Eight of the nine went on to win championships.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
The only one that didn't was the Golden State Warriors
in twenty seventeen. Remember that was the year that they
were up. They won seventy three games and then gave him.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
To Lebron. And so I want to.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Ask you, how good do you feel or how impressed
are you.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
With what the Celtics have done thus far, particularly in
the playoffs. Man, I mean, it's not pretty. It's just
I get it. I can understand.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And because of their past history and just the way
that things have happened, and we've seen them play down
to their competition sometimes games where they should win.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
There's a lot not to like.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, it's like a pig, Chris, I mean, this ain't pretty,
but guess what when you cut it open, I could
have pig feet.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
I could have bacon for breakfasts.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
There's a lot there. There's a lot delicious there. Okay,
I could have.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
A ham for Easter.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
There's a lot there, Chris, if you cut the pig
open and enjoy it. And that's what the Celtics are
just walking around. They don't look good. We're saying, yes,
pork kills, and Porkin's gonna kill the Dallas Mavericks when
it comes time to the NBA Finals. Chris look away,
(02:46):
everything's not gorgeous. Everything is not beautiful. Everything's not a
work of art. The Celtics are not that. But guess what,
they win at a high rate. They just win ugly, fugly, mugly,
whatever you want to call it. Wow, they win, Chris,
(03:08):
That's all you need to do to win a championship.
Do you remember that two thousand What was that? The
Celtics team was that.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Two thousand and eight and they won, Chris.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
They struggled their first two rounds, seven game series seven.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
You were looking going Cleveland or whoever it was, in
the second round to them seven.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
You looked at them and you were like, they're not winning,
no championship.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Look at the struggle.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Sometimes the struggle is a part of it. And if
we can say twelve and two is a struggle, I
want to struggle twelve and two. I want that to
be my struggle, to go twelve and two to reach
the NBA Finals.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I understand why people don't have confidence.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I do, Chris, But I'm gonna tell you you'll be
making a mistake if you discount the kind of winning
that this team has been able to do, because ultimately,
and I've said it a million Times Sports has a
short mit it's wins and its losses.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Well, I look, that's where I do agree with you.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
In the playoffs, you got one mission, winning advance, don't
matter how don't matter.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
How pretty it is, how cute it is.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
What the margin of victory is win and advance and
you brought it up two thousand and eight is a
great example. The Celtics with Garnett Alan Pierce struggled in
every round. They went seven, seven, six and six in
the NBA Finals to win the championship. So I agree
(04:37):
you can't always just look at the playoffs and say, oh,
this team is rolling, this team is struggling, they're going
to win it. They're not going to win it. So
I am with you there and I do not write.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
The Celtics off.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I definitely think they have a chance to win the championship.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
But Rob, this is worse than ugly. It's not just ugly.
This is concerning.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
And again I'm not writing them off, but the way
they have played rob, I don't even have to go
into the first two series where they won by five
or in five games, and both of the teams the heat.
Jimmy Butler, the Cavs Donovan Mitchell and then get Jared
allen Is out, maybe their second best player out for
(05:31):
the entire series. But against Indiana Rop they won in four.
Give them credit, but they trailed three of the four
games in the fourth quarter. The first game they definitely
should have lost, just some horrible calls by Rick Carlisle,
(05:52):
the Pacers coach allowed left the door open, and credit
the Celtics for walking through it, but still that game
is over. Then in Game three, Rob, the Celtics are
down eight points with two and a half minutes left
and going to They outscored the Pacers thirteen to at
(06:13):
the end of the game, so credit them for that,
But down eight points with two and a half minutes
left to a team that doesn't have its best player
in Tyrese Halliburton is just not impressive. And then last night,
of course, in Game four, they trail again by eight
(06:35):
points midway through the fourth quarter and end up pulling
it out. Now a lot of people Rob might say, well,
look it, that's what Denver did against the Lakers, or
that's what Dallas is doing against Minnesota and did against
Oklahoma City. The difference, I would suggest, Rob, the difference
is Oklahoma City, the Lakers, those teams Minnesota in this
(06:59):
series were better than an injury Layton Pacers team. I mean,
the Nuggets were doing it to Lebron James and Anthony Davis,
all right, And so that, to me is the difference
for the Celtics to let an injury plague Pacers team
hang around. It's not engender confidence in them. And again
(07:25):
they swept them. They did what they needed to do.
But Rob, they have not beaten Even when these teams
were healthy, Miami, Cleveland, Indiana, none of them won fifty games.
And so I don't think the Pacers have been very impressive.
I'm sorry, the Celtics have been very impressive. And so
(07:49):
twelve and two, I don't think it's one of the
great historically dominant runs. I think you do have to
look at the whole context of who they've played, who's healthy,
who's not. Doesn't mean they won't win the championship. And
if they do, Rob, we won't even think about all
the injuries. But I can't sit here and act like
(08:09):
I've been impressed with what they've done in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I hear you.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I said it, Chris, it hadn't been pretty to look at.
But everything that wins is not always pretty. The people
win ugly championships. Things happen, things fall in line for you,
and this might be it. They got an easy road,
barely had to. I mean, they won games, but they
lost two games, just two.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Games, and.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I think they're going with some experience, going with some confidence,
and who knows, they might get a few days if
porzingis Chris comes back. He's an added piece that they'll add.
They've done nothing but win all year. He should be
back and they should be in good shape, rested, ready
to go, and they could have an advantage if Minnesota
(08:58):
extends this to six game, which I'm not convinced of.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I'm not because I do believe that.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
They'll win the night, but then losing Game five when
they go back to Dallas, right.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, that will go back. They would go back to Minnesota,
to Minnesota.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I meant, I mean if they win to night, and
I don't think they're coming back from a three to
zero deficit, but you know, if they win the night,
you gotta feel figure they'd feel good about, you know,
going home for Game five and then you know, take
your chances. But yeah, it'd be nice to see if
they can extend this thing and make it at least
(09:37):
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Interesting because Rob, there have not been to Rob. G
look it up.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
I know it's been I don't know if it's ever
happened where both.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Conference finals Rob have been sweeps. I'm not sure.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
I certainly can't remember it, but it may have happened
decades ago. But that would be interesting if both he sweep,
it would make for nice storylines heading into the finals,
and Rober you got some good ones.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Remember Porzingis played with Dallas.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
They kind of moved on from him, right, Remember he
could play with Luca right, Kyrie Boston yep, so it
would be and then Boston swept Kyrie when he was
in Brooklyn.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Remember that he gave the finger, I think to one
of the fans and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
So is that what it was? I thought he was County.
He was saying that he was number one. I thought
that was I thought that's what he.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Said, Robbie. Has never happened, Rob. He just whispered in
my ear, never happened. Never happened. We missed it last
season actually when the Miami he went three to zero
on Boston. And if they had completed it, then it
would have been the first ever.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
And there you go last year with Miami Boston. You
know Boston got something to prove after last year too, right.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
They got a lot to prove. There's no air, Rob.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I mean, if they don't win this, you wonder our
major changes.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I think that they'll probably be a co change for sure.
And then whether or not you.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
If they don't win the championship, you think I was
saying that if they didn't get to the finals.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, but I'd have to see how it goes, Chris, Like,
I'm just saying that, I'd have to see how it goes.
I'm not saying it automatic, but they could just decide.
And I said this before to you. And it doesn't
mean that because Rick Carlo went on to win the championship, right,
But they moved on from him when it looked like
he was promising with the Pistons and they got Larry
(11:29):
Brown and they got over there.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I seen it happened, Mark Jackson, Right, It's happened.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So all I'm saying is it depends on how they lose, Chris,
And if you think.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
That they were out coached or either one of those
situations of course, did anybody you know who would have
one got to the finals and it lost his job
was David Black. David Black, I remember he started the
season the following season, but.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Then they got rid of him early on right and
he went to the finals.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
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Speaker 4 (12:36):
Sham sharani Are reported today that ten teams have invited
Bronnie James, the son of Lebron James, in for workouts,
but Bronnie has turned down most of.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Them, and we'll only go to a few.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Sham's mentioned the Lakers and the Suns, I'm not quite
sure if that it or if those are just two
of the handful he may go play for. But most
people are taking this like he has basically turned down
eight workouts and it's going to only work out for
(13:14):
the Lakers or the Suns.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
What are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I don't know how that's even possible, but it just
speaks to maybe that he knows that there's only you know,
it's only going to go to the Lakers, and so
why bother or whatever. I just don't I don't know
why you wouldn't just go and take a look, you
know what I mean? Chris, and you were you weren't
that impressive. You were impressive shooting when when no one
(13:39):
was guarding you, and then when they played the games,
you didn't play that great. The average four and a
half points in college. Most guys are four and a
half points playing for a bad USC team probably wouldn't
even be in this circumstance or situation. So it's just
kind of weird. It kind of tells you where this
is and it's not diabolical, but it just I said
(14:00):
it from the very beginning, Chris, that he would wind
up with the Lakers. And that's what I still believe.
I said this way a long time ago, that there's
no other situation. Lebron wants this to happen, and the
Lakers want to pacify Lebron as long as he's wearing
a Laker uniform. So that's why maybe this is a
foregoing conclusion. Do you disagree that that's what's probably that's
(14:23):
what's probably gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
No, what this tells me, You're right, it does look
baffling and like what, but all it tells me Rob
is that he knows he's going to the Lakers, Right,
That's what it feels like, Right, he knows he's either
going to the Lakers and it's likely a second round pick,
or they also are like, look if the Suns are
(14:47):
willing to draft him in the first round, then because
that's the talk that maybe they'll use their first round
pick to try to draft to draft Brownie hopes of
getting Lebron over their Rob to Phoenix. Obviously he'd be
you know, nice with the Sons. Can you imagine Lebron,
Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, Usef Nurkic, and Bradley Beal. I mean,
(15:13):
their problems in the fourth quarters where they were the
worst fourth quarter team in the league, where that they
made bad decisions, didn't have a playmaker.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Obviously Lebron would solve that problem.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I don't think he's going there for the minimum, because
that's what he'd have to take, the minimum to go there.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
But if they think, you know, Clutch, which represents.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Bronnie, if they feel like, look, Phoenix is serious, Matt
Ishbia is serious about trying to do this, then that
tells me why they might work out for the Suns,
because maybe they'll draft him in the first round Rob,
which is of course guaranteed money. But I I mean,
(15:57):
I think that's what is happening here. And I tell
you this if I'm Matt Ishbia, and let's say that
is my thought process, Rob, if I'm Ishbia, I'm gonna
draft Bronni so I can get Lebron. Obviously he needs
to do his due diligence and talk to Rich Paul
of Clutch and see if that's actually possible. Like if
(16:20):
we draft Bronnie when the first round, will Lebron come
that's what you gotta do, and if not, then we're
not drafting it. But Rob, knowing Lebron the way I
do and Clutch really the way they do business.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I don't think they would tell them.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
I mean they might tell them outright, no, but I
also think they might just be like, hey, Lebron's not,
you know, committing to anything.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
He's a free agent. He wants to look at what's
best for him.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Or they might go just not really talk to Ishbiah
rob Uh. That's what when Lebron's been a free agent, rob,
he has been very close to the vest. They didn't
tell Cleveland when he first left there, you know he
was he went dark on Dan Gilbert.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
That's part of why Gilbert was so upset.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
But he went dark on him, didn't didn't give him
any didn't tell him, Hey, get rid of Mike Brown.
I'll stay keep Mike Brown. I'll you know, if you
keep him, I'm going They were just guessing because they
couldn't get the word from Lebron when he left Miami
Rob to go back to Cleveland.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
They didn't know, you know what I mean, like so
smart business Lebron. I don't know that they would even
tell Phoenix what they would do.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
I certainly don't think they commit full boy, Yeah, you
drive Briannie. I'm coming, so Ishbaia might just take a
you know, swing at it right, swing for the fences
and see if it can happen. And so that makes
sense if you're clutched, right, Hey, if he's gonna drive
Briannie in the first round, then let's do it and
(18:08):
work out for him otherwise, rib I think most likely
he's just gonna end up with the Lakers, and they
know that and they're not gonna waste their time working
out for other teams.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, I mean that has to be. That's what it
feels like. It's a foegone conclusion. I just don't see
him playing anywhere else. I really don't. This is gonna happen.
This is something Lebron say. He wants him to be
his own man. That sounds good, Chris, he said all
the right soundbites. But this is about Lebron. Lebron wants
(18:40):
this and he wants to do something and nobody else
has done.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
And I get all that.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
That's what he's trying to create.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
The resume just another one. None of Michael Jordan's kids
made it to the NBA. Like, not that that is
gonna look.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Like, you know, but is that gonna factor into the
goat conversation.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Hey, look at Lebron, right, but some people Chris for
for some of the people that Ron wanted to push
the Lebron right.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Look, it's helping Bronnie out in that Rob, it's a
good chance he might not even come close to the
NBA if if he weren't Lebron's son. Now it's different
with players, but we've seen look Yannis his brothers on Milwaukee.
Heck j R. Smith's brother Chris was with the Knicks
for a cup of coffee and a sweet roll and
(19:30):
a sweet role. Absolutely, he was there for a little
while and Rob when not when not Hackett gave up
coaching duty or play calling duties in Denver, guess who
he turned it over to.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Clint Kobiak Gary kubiak Son.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
You know, we see the nepotism all over the place,
and so am I gonna get ticked off? That is
Lebron's gonna use it? No, I mean, I just want
to make sure Brownie's cool with it, you know what
I mean? Because to me, that's the real question. Where's
Briannie psyche?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Uh? Is he fine doing it this way?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
But it depends that like like Giannis's brother Chris, does
he play or is he just sitting there? He's okay
it there's a difference between the two. Now, that's what
I'm trying to say.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
I don't think Brian, you think Briannie's actually let's say
the Lakers drafting, you think he's getting time next year.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I don't think he should be getting time. But if
he plays that, if he plays in that, yeah, would.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
You agree with that?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That that that's where that changes everything, because you got
to remember there are other guys who have put in
the work and all this and perform.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Those are the guys who are losing out. Everybody asks like,
if he's not good enough, then it's hurting your team,
right that.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
But but people think, oh, it doesn't matter whatever if
you're just if you're a Giannice's brother just sitting there
and there's a twelfth man and you don't play, and
and and you know, I mean, I still it's still nepotism.
But I do understand that if anybody you're gonna sit
there and not play, and you want his brother there
because he's the big star. But if Bronnie starts to
(21:07):
get action and play, I don't believe that they're gonna
use the mask as a mascot. Chris Bronni's gonna be
a mascot, because I.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Don't think I mean, I don't think mascots. He'll be
a mascot.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
He'll have a uniform and a funny head he will
put on during the fourth quarter.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I'm just saying, Rob, that's what.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And look, if I'm the Lakers, and obviously you're talking
to Lebron, Look, Lebron, you're our guy. We want you here.
We love what you've done for us. You brought us
our seventeen championship. Will draft Brinnie, but you gotta Rob,
you gotta make it clear he will own the coaching
decisions of playing him are up to the head coach
(21:50):
and the staff. It's not up to you. And we're
only gonna play him if he's earns the spot, like
I think Rob would. I think what they want Lebron
and Briannie in the whole clutch team. I think what
they want Rob is Bronnie to be in a position
where he can develop into an NBA player, And I
(22:11):
think they feel like that's better done in the NBA
than playing in college somewhere. And so I think he's got.
You know, he's got all day as long as he wants.
You know how it works to work with the assistant coaches.
Maybe he'll play some in the G League. He won't
sign a two way contract, but you can play in
the G League without the two way contract. You can
(22:32):
sign his NBA player and then still trained in the
G League.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
So I think it's more of that round.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I would be stunned unless Bronnie were actually to go
out there and play well.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
In the NBA.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
I would be stunned if he got any time next
year with the.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Lakers, like I could clearly see Bronnie his first double double.
It'll be ten high fives, twelve towel waves, and he'll
have a double double.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Just say email car.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
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Speaker 4 (23:11):
And You started off the show talking about it how
Major League Baseball was now going to integrate negro league
statistics into their official stats, and how that changes some
of the all time leaders. I'll let you kind of
mention those names, but I love this rap. I love this.
(23:35):
This to me is a real This is like not
just paying lip service to Black history.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Or the misdeeds of.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
The past, to put it lightly against African Americans.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
This is acknowledging.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
That the Negro leagues was legitimate and that like now,
and you know, I read the article in USA today
about this rob and Josh Gibson's one of his descendants.
I think it might have been. I don't know if
he's a grandson or great grandson or what, but he
said that now when people think of Josh Gibson, they
(24:17):
won't think of him as just a great Negro League player,
but they'll think of him as a great player period.
And I don't like the fact it is what it is.
Don't like the fact that he has to kind of,
you know, the major leagues has to acknowledge him for
him to get his full credit. We should value what
(24:39):
he did in the Negro leagues just for what it is.
But that's the society we're in right now, and that's
the state of things, and so I do this is
going to raise the stature of Josh Gibson and Satchel
Paige and those other great Negro league players who never
got a chance.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
And even though Sachel did play in the major leagues,
but a.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Lot who you know all prime time during their primes,
they didn't play in the majors or didn't play period
in the majors. And Ron we all know Jackie Robinson,
who lit the major leagues on fire right from the beginning,
was not the best Negro league player.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
No, he was the one that they picked.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
He was hand picked Chris because he growing up in
California and it was just a different He thought that
he would be able to deal with what he had
to endure.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
We talked about all the time.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Jacknie Robinson life died early because of the stress that
he carried, Chris for everybody and what he had to endure,
even teammates in the beginning, you know what I mean,
a lot of people didn't want him out there, and
imagine playing there. It's it's it's a miracle. And I
say this seriously that something tragic didn't happen like it's
(25:51):
a miracle. It really is.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
He could have Nobody could have came his way and
you might have even gotten away with it.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
He's the way things there.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like like for real, and
even imagine being in the major leagues. You can't even
eat the restaurants. The Dodgers, to their credit, Chris wouldn't
stay at the hotels that wouldn't allow Jackie.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
They would move. They wouldn't let their team stay there.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
If he had to eat in the kitchen, A lot
of teammates would eat in the kitchen with them, you
know what I mean, not in the main dining room.
It was a different world, and I think a lot
of people I get it it was, but it wasn't a.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Million years ago. That's what I always say that people.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Who were running nineteen forty seven, Chris, they're still alive
years ago, right right, they could still be alive and.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Still be a part of the society. But this was
a normal place.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
But yeah, I mean, Chris, just to say, I was
on some of the zoom calls on this a part
of this review committee and how to figure out what
stats should count, which ones shouldn't count. And I mean,
you know, it was a zoom call about twenty twenty
five people including like CC Sabathia was on it and
(27:06):
Claire Smith, the Hall of Fame baseball writer, you know,
the only female black baseball writer who was.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
In the Hall of Fame. You work with Claire, you
know New York.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Much respect for Claire and her coverage of baseball and
what even she went through in her career when Dick
Williams was the manager of the project, because I don't
know if you know the story. Again, this wasn't a
hundred years ago, and they kicked her out of the
clubhouse and Dick Williams didn't want her in there, and
Steve Garvey and some of the other players Chris got
(27:40):
dressed came outside to give Claire her interviews when he
heard when they heard what was going on, Guys like
that who just didn't you know, didn't buy into these
old school managers and what was going on. But the
bottom line is in this it was trying to figure
out what stats they They've combed through all black newspaper
papers and coverages of these games to figure out, you know,
(28:04):
did a guy have three home runs? And where they
get the numbers from, and they try to authenticate the
numbers and whatnot. And now you look at a situation,
Chris where Josh Gibson, it used to be the leading
hitter in baseball for a long time was Ty Cobb.
Now it's Josh Gibson.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Three or three seventy three batting average.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Slugging percentage, Chris another one on base percentage. I mean
he's a big time, you know, big, big time longstanding
major league baseball records and where people fit in and
that they're going to embrace it and not like you said, Chris,
(28:49):
just lip service or let us just give it. Let's
just give a check to the twenty three hundred remaining
I think that's what the number is whatever Negro league players,
or that's how many were they are.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I think there's only three left. How many? It's not many?
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Three players who played in the Negro leagues are alive today.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
I can't remember I saw that.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Let me see it.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Let me ask youre me go, Chris, let me just
give this to you.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So there were twenty more than twenty three hundred Negro
league ball players between nineteen twenty and nineteen forty eight,
including the eras three living Negro league players.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yes, Chris, there's only three.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
And guess what one of the all time greats is
Willy Mays, who is going to be down when we go.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
To Birmingham on June twentieth. He played in the Negro League.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Down in Birmingham, Alabama, Chris at Rickwood, which is the
oldest stadium in this country's history baseball stadium.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
And Willie Mays, he's ninety three.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I hope he can make it down there, you know,
for this game against the Cardinals and the Giants. But
there are only three remaining Negro League players, and Willie
Mays is one of them.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Let me ask you this, as I look at these numbers,
did the Negro leagues did they just played? They played
a lot fewer games because I mean, obviously the majors
were playing one hundred and fifty four, one hundred and
fifty four back right, one hundred and fifty four games.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I look at Josh Gibson's stats.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
And I mean most he ever played in the year,
at least according to these numbers on Baseball Reference, with
sixty nine games was the most he played in the year.
That makes sense, Yeah, there were fifty games, so they
didn't They did not play nearly as many games as
the as the Major League.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
No, I don't think because it wasn't. I think that
they probably played Chris obviously a shorter schedule.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
It wasn't as established as Major.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
League Baseball with one hundred and fifty four games in
the stadiums. And that's why they did bondstorm and they
did All Star games against the major leaguers because they had,
you know, to be able to do things like that.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
This is interesting.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I wonder for baseball fans, can can you wrap your
arms around it that Ty Cobb not the doesn't isn't
the leading hitter in Major League baseball history anymore? Is
Josh Gibson? And do you like this or do you
do you push back on it and say they didn't
play in the major leagues. They played in the negro leagues,
and they shouldn't mix the numbers together even though it
(31:32):
wasn't there doing. They didn't have an opportunity to play
in the big leagues. And I think that's what baseball's
looking at, to say, these guys were great in their
own right and we know this Chris. Here's why to me,
it's legitimate. One of the all time great players is
(31:52):
Willie Mays, who played in that league as well. It's
not like none of the guys who played in that
league Chris ever made it in the majors. Then you
could make an argument Satchel Page was pitching in his
right fifties in the big leagues. That's another argument to
tell you what kind of talent was there.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Jackie Robinson, who.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Again Jackie Robins best player, came into the league and
won Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
When did he win his first MVP? I think it
was I mean, it was pretty pretty Earls. It was early.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
So my point is he wasn't even the best player
in the Negro leagues and he came right into the
major leagues and played great right away.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And you know that was the first year of the
Rookie of the Year too, nineteen forty really, yeah, and
he won it first year they gave Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
But I think it's those things like that.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
Qus that legitimate year his third season, so it was
fiftyp What year was that?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Forty nine?
Speaker 4 (32:54):
And now he didn't enter the Negro the majors until
he was twenty eight himself, so he was older too.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
But yeah, I agree, I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
I think the fact that you did have players that
played in the Negro leagues come into the majors and
play well and be some of the best players in
the League. I think the fact that Rob, when they
played against one another. There you go, that was the
leagues would win their fair share of games.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
One like they were getting slaughtered like Little league against
Major league. And they played in a lot of those games, Chris,
so I was telling you about like All Star games
like Bondstorming, would it played, Oh.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah, And they held their own and won plenty of
the games.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
And I also think Rob the fact that African American
players have been great baseball players, So it's not like
they couldn't come like they're some of the best players
that we've ever seen. So to say that the Negro
leagues was not up to par, there's just no reason
(33:58):
not to believe that it was up to park.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And let's not forget Hank Aaron played in the Negro League,
Chris Negro League as well. He played for the Indianapolis Clowns,
so he was another player. There's just too many great
players who played in that league who wound up going
on to start in the major leagues.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
And I think.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
That's the validity of it all, is that these guys,
had they been given the chance, would have been great
players longer, you know, and would have had many of
opportunities to establish these records. We came in on the
late and on the back end, Chris and still.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Go look at the record books. It's incredible.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
And some people might say, well, it's not fair to
the major league players at the time. Now Ty Cobb
and others, their records won't stand. But I say, well,
it was much more fair to them, and what's even
happening today is still more fair to them than it
was fair to the black players. And during that time,
(35:01):
who couldn't pick out less money, they obviously didn't get
the stardom that they would have gotten. That's generational wealth
that they missed out on because they, you know, because
of racism.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
So I'm fine, I think.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
And I totally believe this is legitimate, and I am
overjoyed about this.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
I think the one legitimate argument.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Against the ROD that I could see if somebody had
was that they did play so much fewer games you
can you probably, you know, because then stamina becomes and
it's easier obviously to play fifty games than dred and
fifty four. Yeah, so can you hit three fifty over?
I mean, we see it all the time in the
(35:45):
majors where you know, first thirty forty games of the season.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Maybe even do that, might.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Be hitting three yeah, yeah, And so that's the only
legitimate thing. But I still love this and I'm proud
of baseball for this.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
This is no this is groundbreaking, Chris. This is absolutely groundbreaking.
And it's not a token gesture.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
A token gesture is yeah, let's acknowledge them, Let's put
their own their plaques on this wall over here in
this room. Let's cut them a check to the three
living Negro league player.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Keep of Pitch or something like keep it, move pitch
or whatever. Yet
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brusa and Ron Parker.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
All right, ROB, let's start. You have made it clear
you said you.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Are picking the Boston Celtics to win the championship. Looks
like they'll face Dallas, but either way, you're going with
the Celtics. And they just completed a dominant run ROB
through the Eastern Conference playoffs.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
They were twelve and two.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
They obviously had a great regular season as well. They
won sixty four games, by far the best than the league,
and they enter the finals ROB with a seventy six
and twenty record over the regular season and the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
ROB, only.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Nine teams have entered the finals with twenty or fewer losses.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Eight of the nine went on to win championships.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
The only one that didn't was the Golden State Warriors
in twenty seventeen. Remember that was the year that they
were up. They won seventy three games and then gave him.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
To Lebron. And so I want to.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Ask you, how good do you feel or how impressed
are you.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
With what the Celtics have done thus far, particularly in
the playoffs. Man, I mean, it's not pretty. It's just
I get it. I can understand.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And because of their past history and just the way
that things have happened, and we've seen them play down
to their competition sometimes games where they should win.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
There's a lot not to like.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, it's like a pig, Chris, I mean, this ain't pretty,
but guess what when you cut it open, I could
have pig feet.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
I could have bacon for breakfasts.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
There's a lot there. There's a lot delicious there. Okay,
I could have.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
A ham for Easter.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
There's a lot there, Chris, if you cut the pig
open and enjoy it. And that's what the Celtics are
just walking around. They don't look good. We're saying, yes,
pork kills, and Porkin's gonna kill the Dallas Mavericks when
it comes time to the NBA Finals. Chris look away,
(02:46):
everything's not gorgeous. Everything is not beautiful. Everything's not a
work of art. The Celtics are not that. But guess what,
they win at a high rate. They just win ugly, fugly, mugly,
whatever you want to call it. Wow, they win, Chris,
(03:08):
That's all you need to do to win a championship.
Do you remember that two thousand What was that? The
Celtics team was that.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Two thousand and eight and they won, Chris.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
They struggled their first two rounds, seven game series seven.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
You were looking going Cleveland or whoever it was, in
the second round to them seven.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
You looked at them and you were like, they're not winning,
no championship.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Look at the struggle.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Sometimes the struggle is a part of it. And if
we can say twelve and two is a struggle, I
want to struggle twelve and two. I want that to
be my struggle, to go twelve and two to reach
the NBA Finals.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I understand why people don't have confidence.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I do, Chris, But I'm gonna tell you you'll be
making a mistake if you discount the kind of winning
that this team has been able to do, because ultimately,
and I've said it a million Times Sports has a
short mit it's wins and its losses.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Well, I look, that's where I do agree with you.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
In the playoffs, you got one mission, winning advance, don't
matter how don't matter.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
How pretty it is, how cute it is.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
What the margin of victory is win and advance and
you brought it up two thousand and eight is a
great example. The Celtics with Garnett Alan Pierce struggled in
every round. They went seven, seven, six and six in
the NBA Finals to win the championship. So I agree
(04:37):
you can't always just look at the playoffs and say, oh,
this team is rolling, this team is struggling, they're going
to win it. They're not going to win it. So
I am with you there and I do not write.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
The Celtics off.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I definitely think they have a chance to win the championship.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
But Rob, this is worse than ugly. It's not just ugly.
This is concerning.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
And again I'm not writing them off, but the way
they have played rob, I don't even have to go
into the first two series where they won by five
or in five games, and both of the teams the heat.
Jimmy Butler, the Cavs Donovan Mitchell and then get Jared
allen Is out, maybe their second best player out for
(05:31):
the entire series. But against Indiana Rop they won in four.
Give them credit, but they trailed three of the four
games in the fourth quarter. The first game they definitely
should have lost, just some horrible calls by Rick Carlisle,
(05:52):
the Pacers coach allowed left the door open, and credit
the Celtics for walking through it, but still that game
is over. Then in Game three, Rob, the Celtics are
down eight points with two and a half minutes left
and going to They outscored the Pacers thirteen to at
(06:13):
the end of the game, so credit them for that,
But down eight points with two and a half minutes
left to a team that doesn't have its best player
in Tyrese Halliburton is just not impressive. And then last night,
of course, in Game four, they trail again by eight
(06:35):
points midway through the fourth quarter and end up pulling
it out. Now a lot of people Rob might say, well,
look it, that's what Denver did against the Lakers, or
that's what Dallas is doing against Minnesota and did against
Oklahoma City. The difference, I would suggest, Rob, the difference
is Oklahoma City, the Lakers, those teams Minnesota in this
(06:59):
series were better than an injury Layton Pacers team. I mean,
the Nuggets were doing it to Lebron James and Anthony Davis,
all right, And so that, to me is the difference
for the Celtics to let an injury plague Pacers team
hang around. It's not engender confidence in them. And again
(07:25):
they swept them. They did what they needed to do.
But Rob, they have not beaten Even when these teams
were healthy, Miami, Cleveland, Indiana, none of them won fifty games.
And so I don't think the Pacers have been very impressive.
I'm sorry, the Celtics have been very impressive. And so
(07:49):
twelve and two, I don't think it's one of the
great historically dominant runs. I think you do have to
look at the whole context of who they've played, who's healthy,
who's not. Doesn't mean they won't win the championship. And
if they do, Rob, we won't even think about all
the injuries. But I can't sit here and act like
(08:09):
I've been impressed with what they've done in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I hear you.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I said it, Chris, it hadn't been pretty to look at.
But everything that wins is not always pretty. The people
win ugly championships. Things happen, things fall in line for you,
and this might be it. They got an easy road,
barely had to. I mean, they won games, but they
lost two games, just two.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Games, and.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I think they're going with some experience, going with some confidence,
and who knows, they might get a few days if
porzingis Chris comes back. He's an added piece that they'll add.
They've done nothing but win all year. He should be
back and they should be in good shape, rested, ready
to go, and they could have an advantage if Minnesota
(08:58):
extends this to six game, which I'm not convinced of.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I'm not because I do believe that.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
They'll win the night, but then losing Game five when
they go back to Dallas, right.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, that will go back. They would go back to Minnesota,
to Minnesota.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I meant, I mean if they win to night, and
I don't think they're coming back from a three to
zero deficit, but you know, if they win the night,
you gotta feel figure they'd feel good about, you know,
going home for Game five and then you know, take
your chances. But yeah, it'd be nice to see if
they can extend this thing and make it at least
(09:37):
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Interesting because Rob, there have not been to Rob. G
look it up.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
I know it's been I don't know if it's ever
happened where both.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Conference finals Rob have been sweeps. I'm not sure.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
I certainly can't remember it, but it may have happened
decades ago. But that would be interesting if both he sweep,
it would make for nice storylines heading into the finals,
and Rober you got some good ones.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Remember Porzingis played with Dallas.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
They kind of moved on from him, right, Remember he
could play with Luca right, Kyrie Boston yep, so it
would be and then Boston swept Kyrie when he was
in Brooklyn.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Remember that he gave the finger, I think to one
of the fans and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
So is that what it was? I thought he was County.
He was saying that he was number one. I thought
that was I thought that's what he.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Said, Robbie. Has never happened, Rob. He just whispered in
my ear, never happened. Never happened. We missed it last
season actually when the Miami he went three to zero
on Boston. And if they had completed it, then it
would have been the first ever.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
And there you go last year with Miami Boston. You
know Boston got something to prove after last year too, right.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
They got a lot to prove. There's no air, Rob.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I mean, if they don't win this, you wonder our
major changes.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I think that they'll probably be a co change for sure.
And then whether or not you.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
If they don't win the championship, you think I was
saying that if they didn't get to the finals.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, but I'd have to see how it goes, Chris, Like,
I'm just saying that, I'd have to see how it goes.
I'm not saying it automatic, but they could just decide.
And I said this before to you. And it doesn't
mean that because Rick Carlo went on to win the championship, right,
But they moved on from him when it looked like
he was promising with the Pistons and they got Larry
(11:29):
Brown and they got over there.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I seen it happened, Mark Jackson, Right, It's happened.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So all I'm saying is it depends on how they lose, Chris,
And if you think.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
That they were out coached or either one of those
situations of course, did anybody you know who would have
one got to the finals and it lost his job
was David Black. David Black, I remember he started the
season the following season, but.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Then they got rid of him early on right and
he went to the finals.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
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Speaker 4 (12:36):
Sham sharani Are reported today that ten teams have invited
Bronnie James, the son of Lebron James, in for workouts,
but Bronnie has turned down most of.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Them, and we'll only go to a few.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Sham's mentioned the Lakers and the Suns, I'm not quite
sure if that it or if those are just two
of the handful he may go play for. But most
people are taking this like he has basically turned down
eight workouts and it's going to only work out for
(13:14):
the Lakers or the Suns.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
What are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I don't know how that's even possible, but it just
speaks to maybe that he knows that there's only you know,
it's only going to go to the Lakers, and so
why bother or whatever. I just don't I don't know
why you wouldn't just go and take a look, you
know what I mean? Chris, and you were you weren't
that impressive. You were impressive shooting when when no one
(13:39):
was guarding you, and then when they played the games,
you didn't play that great. The average four and a
half points in college. Most guys are four and a
half points playing for a bad USC team probably wouldn't
even be in this circumstance or situation. So it's just
kind of weird. It kind of tells you where this
is and it's not diabolical, but it just I said
(14:00):
it from the very beginning, Chris, that he would wind
up with the Lakers. And that's what I still believe.
I said this way a long time ago, that there's
no other situation. Lebron wants this to happen, and the
Lakers want to pacify Lebron as long as he's wearing
a Laker uniform. So that's why maybe this is a
foregoing conclusion. Do you disagree that that's what's probably that's
(14:23):
what's probably gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
No, what this tells me, You're right, it does look
baffling and like what, but all it tells me Rob
is that he knows he's going to the Lakers, Right,
That's what it feels like, Right, he knows he's either
going to the Lakers and it's likely a second round pick,
or they also are like, look if the Suns are
(14:47):
willing to draft him in the first round, then because
that's the talk that maybe they'll use their first round
pick to try to draft to draft Brownie hopes of
getting Lebron over their Rob to Phoenix. Obviously he'd be
you know, nice with the Sons. Can you imagine Lebron,
Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, Usef Nurkic, and Bradley Beal. I mean,
(15:13):
their problems in the fourth quarters where they were the
worst fourth quarter team in the league, where that they
made bad decisions, didn't have a playmaker.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Obviously Lebron would solve that problem.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I don't think he's going there for the minimum, because
that's what he'd have to take, the minimum to go there.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
But if they think, you know, Clutch, which represents.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Bronnie, if they feel like, look, Phoenix is serious, Matt
Ishbia is serious about trying to do this, then that
tells me why they might work out for the Suns,
because maybe they'll draft him in the first round Rob,
which is of course guaranteed money. But I I mean,
(15:57):
I think that's what is happening here. And I tell
you this if I'm Matt Ishbia, and let's say that
is my thought process, Rob, if I'm Ishbia, I'm gonna
draft Bronni so I can get Lebron. Obviously he needs
to do his due diligence and talk to Rich Paul
of Clutch and see if that's actually possible. Like if
(16:20):
we draft Bronnie when the first round, will Lebron come
that's what you gotta do, and if not, then we're
not drafting it. But Rob, knowing Lebron the way I
do and Clutch really the way they do business.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I don't think they would tell them.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
I mean they might tell them outright, no, but I
also think they might just be like, hey, Lebron's not,
you know, committing to anything.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
He's a free agent. He wants to look at what's
best for him.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Or they might go just not really talk to Ishbiah
rob Uh. That's what when Lebron's been a free agent, rob,
he has been very close to the vest. They didn't
tell Cleveland when he first left there, you know he
was he went dark on Dan Gilbert.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
That's part of why Gilbert was so upset.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
But he went dark on him, didn't didn't give him
any didn't tell him, Hey, get rid of Mike Brown.
I'll stay keep Mike Brown. I'll you know, if you
keep him, I'm going They were just guessing because they
couldn't get the word from Lebron when he left Miami
Rob to go back to Cleveland.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
They didn't know, you know what I mean, like so
smart business Lebron. I don't know that they would even
tell Phoenix what they would do.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
I certainly don't think they commit full boy, Yeah, you
drive Briannie. I'm coming, so Ishbaia might just take a
you know, swing at it right, swing for the fences
and see if it can happen. And so that makes
sense if you're clutched, right, Hey, if he's gonna drive
Briannie in the first round, then let's do it and
(18:08):
work out for him otherwise, rib I think most likely
he's just gonna end up with the Lakers, and they
know that and they're not gonna waste their time working
out for other teams.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, I mean that has to be. That's what it
feels like. It's a foegone conclusion. I just don't see
him playing anywhere else. I really don't. This is gonna happen.
This is something Lebron say. He wants him to be
his own man. That sounds good, Chris, he said all
the right soundbites. But this is about Lebron. Lebron wants
(18:40):
this and he wants to do something and nobody else
has done.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
And I get all that.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
That's what he's trying to create.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
The resume just another one. None of Michael Jordan's kids
made it to the NBA. Like, not that that is
gonna look.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Like, you know, but is that gonna factor into the
goat conversation.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Hey, look at Lebron, right, but some people Chris for
for some of the people that Ron wanted to push
the Lebron right.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Look, it's helping Bronnie out in that Rob, it's a
good chance he might not even come close to the
NBA if if he weren't Lebron's son. Now it's different
with players, but we've seen look Yannis his brothers on Milwaukee.
Heck j R. Smith's brother Chris was with the Knicks
for a cup of coffee and a sweet roll and
(19:30):
a sweet role. Absolutely, he was there for a little
while and Rob when not when not Hackett gave up
coaching duty or play calling duties in Denver, guess who
he turned it over to.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Clint Kobiak Gary kubiak Son.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
You know, we see the nepotism all over the place,
and so am I gonna get ticked off? That is
Lebron's gonna use it? No, I mean, I just want
to make sure Brownie's cool with it, you know what
I mean? Because to me, that's the real question. Where's
Briannie psyche?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Uh? Is he fine doing it this way?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
But it depends that like like Giannis's brother Chris, does
he play or is he just sitting there? He's okay
it there's a difference between the two. Now, that's what
I'm trying to say.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
I don't think Brian, you think Briannie's actually let's say
the Lakers drafting, you think he's getting time next year.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I don't think he should be getting time. But if
he plays that, if he plays in that, yeah, would.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
You agree with that?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That that that's where that changes everything, because you got
to remember there are other guys who have put in
the work and all this and perform.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Those are the guys who are losing out. Everybody asks like,
if he's not good enough, then it's hurting your team,
right that.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
But but people think, oh, it doesn't matter whatever if
you're just if you're a Giannice's brother just sitting there
and there's a twelfth man and you don't play, and
and and you know, I mean, I still it's still nepotism.
But I do understand that if anybody you're gonna sit
there and not play, and you want his brother there
because he's the big star. But if Bronnie starts to
(21:07):
get action and play, I don't believe that they're gonna
use the mask as a mascot. Chris Bronni's gonna be
a mascot, because I.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Don't think I mean, I don't think mascots. He'll be
a mascot.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
He'll have a uniform and a funny head he will
put on during the fourth quarter.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I'm just saying, Rob, that's what.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And look, if I'm the Lakers, and obviously you're talking
to Lebron, Look, Lebron, you're our guy. We want you here.
We love what you've done for us. You brought us
our seventeen championship. Will draft Brinnie, but you gotta Rob,
you gotta make it clear he will own the coaching
decisions of playing him are up to the head coach
(21:50):
and the staff. It's not up to you. And we're
only gonna play him if he's earns the spot, like
I think Rob would. I think what they want Lebron
and Briannie in the whole clutch team. I think what
they want Rob is Bronnie to be in a position
where he can develop into an NBA player, And I
(22:11):
think they feel like that's better done in the NBA
than playing in college somewhere. And so I think he's got.
You know, he's got all day as long as he wants.
You know how it works to work with the assistant coaches.
Maybe he'll play some in the G League. He won't
sign a two way contract, but you can play in
the G League without the two way contract. You can
(22:32):
sign his NBA player and then still trained in the
G League.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
So I think it's more of that round.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I would be stunned unless Bronnie were actually to go
out there and play well.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
In the NBA.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
I would be stunned if he got any time next
year with the.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Lakers, like I could clearly see Bronnie his first double double.
It'll be ten high fives, twelve towel waves, and he'll
have a double double.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Just say email car.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
with Chris Brussard and Rob Parker weekdays at seven pm
Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
And You started off the show talking about it how
Major League Baseball was now going to integrate negro league
statistics into their official stats, and how that changes some
of the all time leaders. I'll let you kind of
mention those names, but I love this rap. I love this.
(23:35):
This to me is a real This is like not
just paying lip service to Black history.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Or the misdeeds of.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
The past, to put it lightly against African Americans.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
This is acknowledging.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
That the Negro leagues was legitimate and that like now,
and you know, I read the article in USA today
about this rob and Josh Gibson's one of his descendants.
I think it might have been. I don't know if
he's a grandson or great grandson or what, but he
said that now when people think of Josh Gibson, they
(24:17):
won't think of him as just a great Negro League player,
but they'll think of him as a great player period.
And I don't like the fact it is what it is.
Don't like the fact that he has to kind of,
you know, the major leagues has to acknowledge him for
him to get his full credit. We should value what
(24:39):
he did in the Negro leagues just for what it is.
But that's the society we're in right now, and that's
the state of things, and so I do this is
going to raise the stature of Josh Gibson and Satchel
Paige and those other great Negro league players who never
got a chance.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
And even though Sachel did play in the major leagues,
but a.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Lot who you know all prime time during their primes,
they didn't play in the majors or didn't play period
in the majors. And Ron we all know Jackie Robinson,
who lit the major leagues on fire right from the beginning,
was not the best Negro league player.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
No, he was the one that they picked.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
He was hand picked Chris because he growing up in
California and it was just a different He thought that
he would be able to deal with what he had
to endure.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
We talked about all the time.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Jacknie Robinson life died early because of the stress that
he carried, Chris for everybody and what he had to endure,
even teammates in the beginning, you know what I mean,
a lot of people didn't want him out there, and
imagine playing there. It's it's it's a miracle. And I
say this seriously that something tragic didn't happen like it's
(25:51):
a miracle. It really is.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
He could have Nobody could have came his way and
you might have even gotten away with it.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
He's the way things there.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like like for real, and
even imagine being in the major leagues. You can't even
eat the restaurants. The Dodgers, to their credit, Chris wouldn't
stay at the hotels that wouldn't allow Jackie.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
They would move. They wouldn't let their team stay there.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
If he had to eat in the kitchen, A lot
of teammates would eat in the kitchen with them, you
know what I mean, not in the main dining room.
It was a different world, and I think a lot
of people I get it it was, but it wasn't a.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Million years ago. That's what I always say that people.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Who were running nineteen forty seven, Chris, they're still alive
years ago, right right, they could still be alive and.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Still be a part of the society. But this was
a normal place.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
But yeah, I mean, Chris, just to say, I was
on some of the zoom calls on this a part
of this review committee and how to figure out what
stats should count, which ones shouldn't count. And I mean,
you know, it was a zoom call about twenty twenty
five people including like CC Sabathia was on it and
(27:06):
Claire Smith, the Hall of Fame baseball writer, you know,
the only female black baseball writer who was.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
In the Hall of Fame. You work with Claire, you
know New York.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Much respect for Claire and her coverage of baseball and
what even she went through in her career when Dick
Williams was the manager of the project, because I don't
know if you know the story. Again, this wasn't a
hundred years ago, and they kicked her out of the
clubhouse and Dick Williams didn't want her in there, and
Steve Garvey and some of the other players Chris got
(27:40):
dressed came outside to give Claire her interviews when he
heard when they heard what was going on, Guys like
that who just didn't you know, didn't buy into these
old school managers and what was going on. But the
bottom line is in this it was trying to figure
out what stats they They've combed through all black newspaper
papers and coverages of these games to figure out, you know,
(28:04):
did a guy have three home runs? And where they
get the numbers from, and they try to authenticate the
numbers and whatnot. And now you look at a situation,
Chris where Josh Gibson, it used to be the leading
hitter in baseball for a long time was Ty Cobb.
Now it's Josh Gibson.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Three or three seventy three batting average.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Slugging percentage, Chris another one on base percentage. I mean
he's a big time, you know, big, big time longstanding
major league baseball records and where people fit in and
that they're going to embrace it and not like you said, Chris,
(28:49):
just lip service or let us just give it. Let's
just give a check to the twenty three hundred remaining
I think that's what the number is whatever Negro league players,
or that's how many were they are.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I think there's only three left. How many? It's not many?
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Three players who played in the Negro leagues are alive today.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
I can't remember I saw that.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Let me see it.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Let me ask youre me go, Chris, let me just
give this to you.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So there were twenty more than twenty three hundred Negro
league ball players between nineteen twenty and nineteen forty eight,
including the eras three living Negro league players.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yes, Chris, there's only three.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
And guess what one of the all time greats is
Willy Mays, who is going to be down when we go.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
To Birmingham on June twentieth. He played in the Negro League.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Down in Birmingham, Alabama, Chris at Rickwood, which is the
oldest stadium in this country's history baseball stadium.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
And Willie Mays, he's ninety three.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I hope he can make it down there, you know,
for this game against the Cardinals and the Giants. But
there are only three remaining Negro League players, and Willie
Mays is one of them.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Let me ask you this, as I look at these numbers,
did the Negro leagues did they just played? They played
a lot fewer games because I mean, obviously the majors
were playing one hundred and fifty four, one hundred and
fifty four back right, one hundred and fifty four games.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I look at Josh Gibson's stats.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
And I mean most he ever played in the year,
at least according to these numbers on Baseball Reference, with
sixty nine games was the most he played in the year.
That makes sense, Yeah, there were fifty games, so they
didn't They did not play nearly as many games as
the as the Major League.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
No, I don't think because it wasn't. I think that
they probably played Chris obviously a shorter schedule.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
It wasn't as established as Major.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
League Baseball with one hundred and fifty four games in
the stadiums. And that's why they did bondstorm and they
did All Star games against the major leaguers because they had,
you know, to be able to do things like that.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
This is interesting.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I wonder for baseball fans, can can you wrap your
arms around it that Ty Cobb not the doesn't isn't
the leading hitter in Major League baseball history anymore? Is
Josh Gibson? And do you like this or do you
do you push back on it and say they didn't
play in the major leagues. They played in the negro leagues,
and they shouldn't mix the numbers together even though it
(31:32):
wasn't there doing. They didn't have an opportunity to play
in the big leagues. And I think that's what baseball's
looking at, to say, these guys were great in their
own right and we know this Chris. Here's why to me,
it's legitimate. One of the all time great players is
(31:52):
Willie Mays, who played in that league as well. It's
not like none of the guys who played in that
league Chris ever made it in the majors. Then you
could make an argument Satchel Page was pitching in his
right fifties in the big leagues. That's another argument to
tell you what kind of talent was there.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Jackie Robinson, who.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Again Jackie Robins best player, came into the league and
won Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
When did he win his first MVP? I think it
was I mean, it was pretty pretty Earls. It was early.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
So my point is he wasn't even the best player
in the Negro leagues and he came right into the
major leagues and played great right away.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And you know that was the first year of the
Rookie of the Year too, nineteen forty really, yeah, and
he won it first year they gave Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
But I think it's those things like that.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
Qus that legitimate year his third season, so it was
fiftyp What year was that?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Forty nine?
Speaker 4 (32:54):
And now he didn't enter the Negro the majors until
he was twenty eight himself, so he was older too.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
But yeah, I agree, I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
I think the fact that you did have players that
played in the Negro leagues come into the majors and
play well and be some of the best players in
the League. I think the fact that Rob, when they
played against one another. There you go, that was the
leagues would win their fair share of games.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
One like they were getting slaughtered like Little league against
Major league. And they played in a lot of those games, Chris,
so I was telling you about like All Star games
like Bondstorming, would it played, Oh.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah, And they held their own and won plenty of
the games.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
And I also think Rob the fact that African American
players have been great baseball players, So it's not like
they couldn't come like they're some of the best players
that we've ever seen. So to say that the Negro
leagues was not up to par, there's just no reason
(33:58):
not to believe that it was up to park.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And let's not forget Hank Aaron played in the Negro League,
Chris Negro League as well. He played for the Indianapolis Clowns,
so he was another player. There's just too many great
players who played in that league who wound up going
on to start in the major leagues.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
And I think.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
That's the validity of it all, is that these guys,
had they been given the chance, would have been great
players longer, you know, and would have had many of
opportunities to establish these records. We came in on the
late and on the back end, Chris and still.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Go look at the record books. It's incredible.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
And some people might say, well, it's not fair to
the major league players at the time. Now Ty Cobb
and others, their records won't stand. But I say, well,
it was much more fair to them, and what's even
happening today is still more fair to them than it
was fair to the black players. And during that time,
(35:01):
who couldn't pick out less money, they obviously didn't get
the stardom that they would have gotten. That's generational wealth
that they missed out on because they, you know, because
of racism.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
So I'm fine, I think.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
And I totally believe this is legitimate, and I am
overjoyed about this.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
I think the one legitimate argument.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Against the ROD that I could see if somebody had
was that they did play so much fewer games you
can you probably, you know, because then stamina becomes and
it's easier obviously to play fifty games than dred and
fifty four. Yeah, so can you hit three fifty over?
I mean, we see it all the time in the
(35:45):
majors where you know, first thirty forty games of the season.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Maybe even do that, might.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Be hitting three yeah, yeah, And so that's the only
legitimate thing. But I still love this and I'm proud
of baseball for this.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
This is no this is groundbreaking, Chris. This is absolutely groundbreaking.
And it's not a token gesture.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
A token gesture is yeah, let's acknowledge them, Let's put
their own their plaques on this wall over here in
this room. Let's cut them a check to the three
living Negro league player.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Keep of Pitch or something like keep it, move pitch
or whatever. Yet
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kelvin washington
Rob Parker
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