May 29, 2024 • 40 mins
Chris and Rob discuss whether other sports leagues like the NBA and the NFL should follow MLB’s lead after they retroactively integrated Negro League statistics and take Oklahoma City Thunder executive Sam Presti to task for essentially saying that it’s unreasonable to expect NBA players to play a full 82-game season. Plus, NBA champion and FOX Sports Radio NBA analyst Antonio Daniels swings by to discuss whether the Minnesota Timberwolves have it in them to comeback from down 0-3 to the Dallas Mavericks, the narrative that Minnesota should look to trade Karl-Anthony Towns this offseason, why the timing was perfect for Ty Lue to extend with the Los Angeles Clippers and much more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Bruson and Ron Harker.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Yesterday we talked about the Negro Leagues statistics being integrated
into Major League Baseball's official statistics, and so that means
that like, instead of Ty Cobb having the all time
record for career batting average, I think his was three
(00:53):
sixty two or something like that.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
I think it was three sixty six.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Okay, Josh Gibson now has it in his is three
seventy three or three seventy two. So things like that,
you know. And now, Rob, I think three of the
top five batting averages of all time are players from
the Negro Leagues. And that got me to thinking, Rob,
(01:20):
what about should other leagues follow suit and maybe integrate
if there were legitimate leagues going on besides their own,
should other leagues kind of integrate those into the statistics.
And mainly the one I was thinking about, Rob is
(01:41):
the ABA and the NBA.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I thought that that's where you were coming up with
this was was the ABA and NBA. And I'm the
only reason I'm gonna say, I'm gonna pause and say no,
is that there wasn't some diabolical thing that stopped people
from playing either the ABA or the NBA. And they
(02:04):
were separate entities that don't have the the the mark.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
On it, Chris.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
It wasn't discrimination, right.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
They just didn't, you know, like it just there's nothing
there that says that you couldn't have played in the
ABA or you couldn't have been playing in the NBA.
We talk about all the time, Dave Winfield was drafted
by both the ABA, the NBA, the NFL and Major
League Baseball, right like like he could.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Have played in the ABA or he could have played
in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Where I think the only reason why this works in
baseball is because of.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
What happened historically.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
And it wasn't about people's lack of skill. This wasn't
a skills burrier, Chris. It was strictly a color barrier.
It didn't matter how good you were or what you
could do, if you were black, you couldn't play. And
I think that that's the difference and why it's important.
I know I had people today talk about each year
(03:06):
Row before he came to the United States, Chris, I
think he had two thousand hits in Japan.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Should he could be the all time hits leader if.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
We include his hits in Japan? And then he got
another what three thousand here? Right as each year Row
the all time hit leader if we include his stats
in Japan. Again, No, because at that time that's where
he was playing.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
There was no bar for him to come. You know,
maybe he couldn't.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
You'd have to pay those Japanese teams to release them,
but there was no racial prejudice or something that barred
his ability just based on his skin color or you know, whatever.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
You might take.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So I think what baseball's done here is a little different,
and I'm cool with this, but I don't want everything
merged together.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
No, that's fair. I think what you said is fair.
Certainly it was racial discrimination. Racism is what it was.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Clip player and simple, right. There's no if no gray area.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Anybody who thinks that those guys couldn't play or kidna themselves.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Chris, Oh, absolutely mean you're not.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
If you if you're trying to say that the Negro
League's players weren't as good and the Negro League itself
was not as good as Major League Baseball. I think
that's just racist, because when you look at what African
Americans have done in baseball, Chris up now, they can
(04:36):
be are just as good as any other race, and
many of the greatest players ever are African American. Many
Rob and Martin White said this last night. From nineteen
forty nine to nineteen sixty two, they had fourteen MVPs
in the National League, Eleven of them were black, Hello,
(05:00):
and all but one of them, Morey Willis, had actually
played in the Negro leagues.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
So you can't.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
I mean, that's just in addition to the fact that
they used to play each other sometimes and the black
teams would win just as much as the white teams.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
That's knowing it so forth, So.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I think, and Rod, we throw in the fact that
the Federal League and even a few other leagues have
their statistics recognized by the mana League Baseball. For you
to not raise anything a stink about those and now
you want to get mad about the negro leagues, you
need to look in the mirror and see what your
real motive is.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Real talk and the thing you bring up do you know?
You know why?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And we talked about this to a little bit yesterday,
Chris on why all those MVPs were in the National League,
because that was the Black League. The white American League
didn't have and didn't want. I told you the last
three teams with black players Red Sox Yankees talk. I
(06:00):
think other three.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
You said those were fo you mentioned four yet and
the other one was the Phillies. The other one was
the Phillies. That's what they're National League, you know what
I mean? But those were those three teams were the last.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
And I brought up Boston because Jackie Robinson broken in
nineteen forty seven, Chris, nineteen fifty nine, twelve years after Jackie,
twelve years. Could you imagine sitting in the stands going, what,
we still don't have a black player.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
They didn't care, They kept going no.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
I'm sure if many of the fans were fine with it.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
But here's what got me thinking about the ABA and
rob It was before this way, before this where I
started really looking at this, because when I really sat
down and analyzed the ABA versus the NBA, what I saw, obviously,
Rob so many If you go to the nineteen late
(06:57):
sixties through really that decade from the mid sixties to
the mid seventies, and you name the best player basketball
players in the world at that time, Rob in that decade,
half of them were in the ABA. Doctor j George Gervin,
artist Gilmore, dan Issel, rick Berry, you could go on
(07:22):
and on, Charlie Scott. They had some terrific players. And
then Rob. Cause you know, obviously we talk a lot
about championships when we measure players, greatness and all of
that stuff.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
And when I looked at you know.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
The ABA and the NBA, ROB used to play exhibition
games where their teams, not all star teams, but like
their regular teams would play against each other.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
So ABA teams would play.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
NBA teams and so on and so forth.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
And Rob.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
They did this throughout, you know, for several years, and
the ABA came out on top. ABA won seventy nine games,
the NBA won seventy six. And then when they the
last three years before the merger, the ABA won sixty
(08:18):
five percent of the games, So you cannot say that
the ABA was not as good as the NBA.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
It might have even been better.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
And with so many of those players moving into the NBA, Rob,
I look at what that would do for legacies, like,
for instance, doctor J. Now doctor J is Rob, Guess
where do you think Doctor J ranks all time in
NBA scoring?
Speaker 5 (08:48):
Like what number thirtieth, chiens whatever.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I'm gonna say, twenty fifth, I don't know where doctor
J twenty fifth?
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Seven? These six? Wow, well, yeah, he joined the league.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
That that makes sense, a little later he joined the
league in was seventy six, Crystal.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Seven his first year. Yeah, play.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I think he retired in eighty six, maybe eighty seven, Yeah,
ten years. But Rob, if you counted his ABA stats,
which again I think we've established was against just as
good as competition, he would be eighth.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Doctor J had thirty thousand points total.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
He also would have three MVPs instead of one. He
would have three championships instead of one, And so that
starts to change the way you look at things. And
I look, I think the one challenge with this, like
it would be easy Rob to merge the stats, but
(09:55):
the question is championships. So do you just say that
for those ten years or whatever that the ABA was around,
there were two you know what I mean, there's an
ABA champion and an NBA champion. I mean, you could
do that, there's no nothing wrong with that. But I
just think the ABA has a legitimate because you're right.
It wasn't racial discrimination, no question. It was just right, but.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
Very close, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
And not only the fact that so many ABA players
ended up playing in the NBA, that they played against
each other in ABA was just as good. But rob
today's NBA resembles the ABA more than the NBA of
that time, night or wide open more the street ball
in the ABA, which the NBA was a lot more
(10:44):
sedate and you know, formulaic and stuff. You're right, the
three point line even were cheerleaders slam duncan.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
That was all a B A BA stuff, right, And
Chris uh, here you go.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
You can tell me I'm wrong. You can tell me i'm.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I think part of the disrespect.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
For the A B A And just tell me if
I'm off base.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I think the red, white and blue ball made it
like a clowns league.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
I don't agree, Okay, I mean, okay, we were kids
so I was a kid, I remember actually having a
red white and blue we.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Had an aball.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
But but I sometimes because that's the ball that the
HALLM Globe Trotters used.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, look, you might be right. I don't think you're right.
But again, I was a kid at the time.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Right about the Globe Trotters. Didn't they use that ball? Right,
a red white and blue ball?
Speaker 4 (11:43):
I think, well, you.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Checked that out for us, please, I'm almost positive that
they did.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
But I don't think that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I think it's just it was rober Let's face it,
it's competition, right. The NBA was trying to squash the
A b ah some degree, right, they did, and they
want to be We're the King, We're the King League.
But you could be right. I don't think it's it's that.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
He picked up.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Rob g did look it up, and I'm right they
try to use the red white and blue ball like
because it was colorful, it was entertaining, it was of
that ilk.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Whereas you're right.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
The NBA was more drab, you know what I mean, Chris,
and more.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
They didn't have cheerleaders at halftime doing dance or in
between you know, breaks and things like that.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
The other league.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Rob rob g we were talking about this before the show,
and he mentioned the Japanese League as you did with
Ichi Row And my thing that that, I guess is
similar to your argument against the AB. I said, number one,
it wasn't racial discrimination. There was no discrimination that you
know as the why the league's were separate. And two,
(12:56):
that's a whole nother country and not even the whole
of the country, that a whole nother continent. I mean,
you can't just include every that's on the other side
of the world, Like I don't think that that's understandably separate.
At least the ABA it was here in America and
it became an integral part of the NBA.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
That would be my argument that that's.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Not that's not ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I mean, I get it if you wanted to somehow
combine the two and make it just basketball kind of
like see if it was like that, like you having
baseball the American League in the National League make up
the major leagues.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You had the A, B, A and NBA, Chris, and
they make up major basketball league.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
You know what I mean? Like that would be a BA,
NBA American League.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
National League, like I think that it would have to
be of that ILK, like if you were to try
to make it mesh.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Well, let me ask you this before we open it
up to callers.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I mean, and I don't know how much you delve
into the rankings yourself other than just when we talk
about it. But Doctor J, now he's got one championship
and one MVP in the NBA. If he were now
a guy that s they had three MVPs and three championships,
would that.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
That would change kind of where we right, doctor J.
There's no doubt about it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
To be honest, I think the sad part is Chris
because the ABA didn't survive. And those four teams for
people who don't know, you know, you can look it up.
But four teams went into the NBA, Nuggets, PA, Pacers,
and uh.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Who was the fourth who merged?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Nuggets, Pacers, Nets and the nets?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Right and the Nets? Those are the four that made
it in.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
So it wasn't an equal merger.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
That's the other and that's the other thing why the
NBA holds the power because.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Exactly that's my point.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
There's only four teams going into the league. It wasn't
like it was twelve and twelve, you know, like or
something like that.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
The ABM MAD they had about eleven twelve teams, and
that's the thing. The NBA always have more teams, so
that part is legitimate. But I last thing I'll say, Rob,
I've thought about. Look when Jerry West won his only
ring in seventy two, half the best players in the
world were in the ABA. When that's Wilt's second ring,
(15:26):
When Oscar Robertson won his only ring, half the best
players in the ABA, Kareem's first ring. The Knicks two championships,
half of the best players in the world weren't even
in the NBA. So that you know what I mean.
If we do value those championships, I'm thinking we should
value the guys that wanted in the ABA just as much.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
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Speaker 6 (16:05):
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Speaker 4 (16:08):
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Mark Stein join us as we team up to expound
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Speaker 3 (16:29):
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Speaker 7 (16:47):
Doing all right?
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Doing great?
Speaker 7 (16:51):
I'm awesome and join these games, that's for sure. Well,
what's less.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Gentleman? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
What is left of this Western Conference series between Dallas
and Minnesota. You think Minnesota can really make this thing
a serious or you think it'll just be a gentleman.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
Sweet You know, it's weird because I kind of go
back and forth. I felt like if Minnesota was going
to get a game, yesterday was the game to get,
especially after what Kyrie Irving says.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
You think that was just a sign that they may
have relaxed Dallas.
Speaker 7 (17:23):
Yes, Yeah, it's easy, and I get it. It's human nature.
It's easy to relaxed because you got Game four at home.
You know you got games at home, and you've also
won in Minnesota twice, so I can understand the human
nature element to kind of take a step back, like,
(17:43):
you know what, Look, we are the better team here
and we know that. So if there's a game I
felt like Minnesota was gonna get. I felt like yesterday
was the game, especially after Kyrie Irving said this is
their super Bowl, but it's just another game run. No.
I think that kind of brings on again. There's a
human nature involved element involved here, and I think that
(18:04):
Dallas relaxed somewhat yesterday.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
It does happen human nature and the team. You know this, Antonio,
your season is over. You put in a yeoman's effort.
But we've seen a lot of gentleman sweeps where a
team will win a game and then finally succumb, So so.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
I'm not that surprised.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Chris and I both picked Minnesota to win yesterday, just
having that feel of it that they would, you know,
muster up enough to get a win, right, And I
think it's human nature. But going forward, how important is
it for Dallas to just okay, end it here even
though it's on the road, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Do you want to end it?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
You don't want to come back for a Game six
at home, because then anything can happen.
Speaker 7 (18:52):
And that that's the way to put it. Anything can happen.
And we've seen this, you know, we've seen this for years.
We saw it in the New York Knick series. When
you have an opportunity to end the series, you end
the series because you never know what's going to happen, right,
You have no idea. The more you play, the more
you play, what you are opening yourself up to, especially
(19:13):
if you're a team that's a hit, is the possibility
of something going wrong. Right. There's nothing good that comes
from continue games. For the Dallas Mavericks, nothing good can
come from that. Everything good comes from Minnesota continuing to
build up a little bit hope with every game that
they win. If you're the Dallas Mavericks, nothing good comes
(19:33):
from a Game six. Nothing You have to play game
five because you lost that game. I mean you won
that game. You lost. So now, if you are the
Dallas Mavericks, nothing good can come from games that are
continued to be played. When you have an option to
finish the series.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
There's a lot of talk like if Dallas does win
the series, let's say in five do you think there's
a lot of talk about, well, what should Minnesota trade
Carl Anthony Towns?
Speaker 5 (20:04):
Should they?
Speaker 4 (20:05):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 7 (20:06):
Amazing? And I tell you for me, it's what I
really find to be amazing about the postseason and how
quickly narratives changed, like from one series to another. Anthony
Edwards went from Michael B. Jordan's to Michael Jordan to
Jordan Poole, Like, I mean, what are we doing?
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I might steal that? Who might Who's a writer? I
wouldn't know who the writer is.
Speaker 7 (20:35):
No, but these are things that you see like on
our on our on our show the Denver Nuggets, after
they lost my co host Rick Hamdler came on the
next day and said, oh, you know what, Michael Porter
needs to be traded. Why because he had a bad series?
Like this is what we do. I love the postseason,
(20:56):
but there's a constant overreaction to a sea. The one
thing I would love to see from KR Anthony Towns
more than anything else, more than the shot making and
the three point shooting and the taking advantage of mismassage,
is defensive discipline. This is the thing I'm watching these
games that is literally driving me. But Banana, like, dude,
(21:19):
you have to be smarter defensively. The fact that he
is in foul trouble every single game, it's problematic for
the Minnesota Timberwolves. It has to come a point where
you learn on the fly, you connect mental data. Okay,
this is what I can do. This is what I can't.
You cannot be in foul trouble every single game for
Minnesota to have a chance to extend this series.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
I'm with you, and look, I might listen.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I might pick up the phone if people want to,
you know, make me some great offers for towns. But
I look some of this Chris. No, I'm not saying
I was shot. Hold on, I'm not saying I was shopping.
I'm not saying I would be looking to trade it.
I'm just saying if somebody called me and I would listen,
That's all I mean.
Speaker 7 (22:02):
Here's the thing. You you went, not you, meaning the
Minnesota Timberwolves a year ago made it to the first round.
You can't skip steps. Now they're all the way to
the Western Conference Finals, right, They've already over at Seved
so do you really break this team up? Do you
know what what gets me about again about the postseason
(22:24):
and sometimes not making it to the postseason, there's an
organizational arrogance. I think that teams forget where they come from.
The Cleveland Cavaliers, they forgot where they come from.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
What did they expect from dating right?
Speaker 7 (22:36):
Right? What did they expect? Like the Minnesota Timberwolves a
year ago were at home this time. Now you didn't
just get out the first round. You didn't just get
out the second round. You'd beat last year's champion and
advance all the way to the Western Conference finals. And
now there are talks about trading Karl Anthony Towns. I
will not understand that. What's the whatever.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
I agree with you and that I wouldn't be shopping,
But I think there's an element of Look, obviously, we
think Anthony Edwards is gonna learn from this and improve,
and I think Cat, that's what you have to hope
he does as well.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
He's only I think twenty eight or twenty nine. He's
still relatively young.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Himself, so he's gotta make that jump, you know, from
learn This is his first time.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
This deep in the playoffs, past the first down.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
So I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
I'm not gonna say it. I still somebody called me.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
I'm listening, but I'm not shopping eire trying to move.
Speaker 7 (23:34):
Okay, So I have a question for both of you guys,
who do you think would be a better fit in
Minnesota than Karlins in the towns are the four spot?
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
That's why I'm saying, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I don't know a.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Realistic move out there. That's why I'm leaning that I
would just keep it, and I think I think he
can learn and grow anyway.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Because still, really there really isn't a real stick, no
one pick out there that you could just drop been
and say, oh yeah, this makes them better tomorrow. So
once you don't have that, I think you got to
be very careful not to overreact, no question. Yeah, and
that's what people do. Clipper, Sidne and ty Lou, where
do you rank him? Chris and I are very high
(24:15):
on ticket Lou. I think he's a tremendous coach. He's
a guy who's got a championship in his back pocket
that hasn't saved a lot of other coaches who have
been fired. He's probably loves La comfortable with Steve Balmer.
If I'm him, I take that job and that extension.
Speaker 7 (24:31):
Oh, no question. But the thing is these extensions. It's
so funny life is about Timmy. The moment Darby Ham
got fired and toront Lu's came toront Lu's name came up,
then you start hearing about extensions from the Clippers. It's
funny how it once because it's not a long commute
from the Clippers to the Lakers. That's not a long.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Commute at all.
Speaker 7 (24:51):
It's about one hundred feet exactly exactly. So I love
toront Leo as a coach because I think he has
both all right down pack. You know, some coaches have
one side down, the X and O side, the adjustment side,
and other coaches don't have the X and O side down,
but they have the player relations side. I feel like
(25:11):
Toron Lou has both sides down, his ability to kind
of garner respect in that locker room and on the
other side. I don't know if there's a better in
game adjustment coach out there now. There may be coaches
when the game is over from game one to game two,
game two to game three are great at making adjustments.
Toron Lo's ability to make adjustments in game throughout the
(25:34):
course of a game, from quarter to quarter and half
to half. Honestly, they may be unmatched now in today's NBA.
This is good for him. I'm happy for him.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
People are talking about back courts, you know, all time
great back courts, I said, obviously with the Luca Kyrie
and you know, and whatnot. My question is, and I
saw this on Twitter and I just thought, where where
does this fit in for you? People said, what about
Isaiah and Joe Dumares, Isaiah Thomas?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Not my question. My question to you is where do
they fit in? Not if they're the best, but where
do they fit into you?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
They mean in Isaiah, Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars.
Speaker 7 (26:12):
Okay, So here's my thing, because I've said this for
a while or two. This is the most skilled backcourt
in history. So the thing is, you can you can
make one of the two a wash. I don't care
however you break it down Isaiah and Joe Dumars. Let's
just say Isaiah and Kyrie are a washed. Both smaller guards,
(26:32):
both great handles, both great finishers. But when you look
at Luca skill wise and compare him to Joe Dumars,
no disrespect to Joe Dumares. But the thing is, this
isn't a debate.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Well but we but but we're not talking about skill wise.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I mean, David Robinson might have had more skills than Shack,
but who was better Shack?
Speaker 5 (26:53):
You know?
Speaker 7 (26:53):
So, Ja, what are we saying?
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Where does that here?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
I give you if they win, if if the Mavericks
win this championship.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I know this.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
This is the third best backcour ever Stephen Isaiah Dumars,
number two, Luca Kyrie number three.
Speaker 7 (27:13):
All right, that's fair, Okay, fair, I'll rock with that.
And so for me, I'm okay with that. ISAA Thomas
was my favorite player growing up.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
All right, brother, we got we gotta thank you, brother.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
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to listen live.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
All right, Rob Sam Presty who runs basket Operations in
Oklahoma City, and Rob you. Sam Presty is a great executive,
fantastic executive. Obviously, he built that team that never won
a championship but had Kevin Durant James Harden, and Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
All three went on to win MVP Awards.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
All three will be first ballot Hall of Famers, and
all three are just terrific players, without question.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
And he drafted them all and so you gotta give
him credit for that.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Obviously, Kad might have been a no brainer because Greg
Golden went first. Right remember that Rob in Seattle and
Presty I didn't have a air in Seattle. I don't
even know that he was. I don't know that he
was the one in Seattle that drafted.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
Durant. But Harden and Westbrook were not no brainers. And
then Rob that team breaks up.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
You know, of course Durant leaves to go to Golden State,
and Westbrook eventually, you know, he stays, but is eventually traded.
Of course, Harden left early when he went to Houston
to become a superstar. And now Rob Sam Presty had
has rebuilt this thing again.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
You got he fleeced. Now it looks like fleet.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I mean it really is a fleece because Paul George
and Kawhi Leonard couldn't stay healthy for the Clippers. But
he did trade Paul George in the deal that got him,
Shay Gilders, Alexander, a lot of draft picks, and now
he's built around Shade Jalen Williams, great fine chet Holmgren. Look,
I think he's gonna be a star. And so they
(29:28):
are at Rowland in ok See, Rob number one seed
in the West, got to the second round, youngest team
ever in the.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
History of the league to win a playoff series.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
So they got to the second round.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
And next year, Rob, you know, I don't know that
they could win it next year, but they'll probably go,
you know, they'll have a chance to go a step further,
and in a couple of years they'll probably be knocking
on the door and ready to maybe win a championship.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
And so he's a great executive.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And today or yesterday he spoke to the media, Rob,
and I was surprised because Sam doesn't really say a lot,
you know, a lot of stuff that's really controversial or newsworthy.
But yesterday when he spoke to the media for two
and a half hours, Rob, he blamed three things.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
He said, the reason.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
So many of these stars and you and I have
talked about it at nauseum. So many of these stars
are hurt in the playoffs rob most teams. Most teams
have a star player who is hurt.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
I mean we got the Knicks. Julius Randall was out Philadelphia.
I won't say and be because he played, but he
was hurt. Cavaliers lost, Donovan Mitchell, Pacers, Tyrese Halliburton, Milwaukee,
Yannis Ante to Kumbo. That's not even to mention Dames
in the little he Jimmy Butler. That's five of the
(30:57):
eight playoff teams in the East. We go to the West, Nuggets.
I mean, you could mention Jamal Murray. We won't have
we won't was banked up. He was banged up, right.
The West was a little better. Clippers, obviously, Kawhi, I
think just about every Obviously Phoenix had injuries throughout the year,
but not in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
Lucas played banged.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Up for the Mavericks, Science yeah for the Pelicans. So
so almost half the playoff teams had lost a big
time player or and more than half either, you know,
if you include players that played through injury. And Sam
Presty Rod blamed it on three things. One was the
NBA's new sixty five game rule, where you had to
(31:41):
play Hey I'm gonna let you just let me get
through it and then you can go off. You know
where you had to play at least sixty five games
to be eligible for postseason awards.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
Two was the end season tournament.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Now remember they didn't play any more games, but just
the way I guess they were scheduled, he said, didn't
give him as much rest. And then three, the way
you you heard this, Rob, in the second half of
the season, they the officials let the players be more physical.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
And so he said, those are the three things.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Sixty five game rule in season, tournament change, and officiating
to allow more physical play in the second half of
the season. That is why so many guys are hurting
the playoffs, Rob Parker, your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
No.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Sam Presty stopping Chris? Is this new?
Speaker 1 (32:37):
This has been going on for years now. Come on, Sam, really,
Kawhi Leonard? Can we just just take Kawhi Leonard?
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Chris?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Is it this year that Kawhi lench has been heard
for the last five years?
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Come on, game rule or tournament? In any of those years.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
There were no tournament, There was none of that.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
You're using it as an excuse to ask somebody to play.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Chris sixty five out of eighty two games is a crime.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
That's a that's a c Oh my god, how can
they play sixty five games?
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Forget eighty two, Chris.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Out of three hundred and sixty five days a year,
you can't play sixty five games.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
Really, that's the reason that they're hurt.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
They have better everything, better doctors, better training staffs, massages, Chris,
everything better, better living conditions, better travel, accommodations. I mean,
my god, everything is better. And this whole notion again,
(33:47):
You didn't add more games, Chris, whether you like the
nd season tournament.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Or not, they didn't add ten games. They didn't make
you play, nor did you play three and three nights
there you go, or something that right to make for
back to backs.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
None of that.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
And the idea too, that the playoffs, and the idea that,
my god, they actually let officials allow players to defend.
How my goodness, gracious, Chris, how awful is that? How
are the players going to react if someone's actually trying
to make a play or stop at the end of
(34:23):
the game and they have to touch the other player?
Speaker 4 (34:26):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Like, I just cannot that Sam Presty would let that
come out of his mouth as the reasons why is
total bs total.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Poppy cock?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yes, thank you, googly googly goop, thanks Grady, and all
of that other stuff.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Chris, none of it makes sense to me.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
And Rob.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
If Sam Presty and and he did say, Rob, g
correct me if I'm wrong. He has numbers to back
up or at least you know, he thinks back up
what he's saying. But Rob, if he believes this, then
why are we playing eighty two games? Basically, what you're
saying is they can't play eighty two games anymore. That's
(35:16):
what he's saying. If sixty five games is too much,
then forget about eighty two. If the nd season tournament
which added no games, is too much.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Forget about eighty two. And they let you play a
little physical. They played far more physical in.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
The nineties and early two thousands, and those guys played, Chris,
I don't have the numbers, and we talk about it.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
All run played.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
They played eighty games a year.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
They pay Oh god, do what he's going to a
year thinking I'm gonna miss any games.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Every player's goal was eighty two games.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Chris and I talk about this all the time. And
this is oh lie. When we were covering the league
as beat writers, did we ever in our and our imaginations,
Chris go to the arena and go, I wonder if
Patrick Ewan's playing tonight, did you right? I wonder if
it is he gonna rest it's Kerry Kittles playing tonight?
(36:17):
Like like Chris, you never thought about that. That was
not in our even even our thoughts.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
It wasn't even in the players thoughts either or the
coaches start. It was not an issue whatsoever. And Rob,
I'm serious and I'm not. If Sam said these things,
then what he was essentially saying is we can't play
eighty two game season anymore.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
And I'm telling you, Rob, and I don't think that
we've talked about it.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
They're not gonna cut the games when they can sell
out eighty two games a year.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Oh, that you cannot. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
It is disingenuous to have eighty two games if you
don't think your players can play.
Speaker 8 (36:57):
It's because, Rob, what if the game I pick to
take my son to on his birthday and three of
his friends and I spend out sholl out five hundred
dollars because I want to go see Shake Gilgers Alexander
and not today.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
He's resting because he can't. He's healthy as all get out,
but he can't play the two. It's not fair. Now,
Sam Presty may not. I don't know that he's right,
but I'm just saying. And it's odd to Rob because
his team was a healthy team. That was one of
the reasons they were able to have the best record
(37:36):
in the West is because their starters, for the most
part played Shake Gilgers played seventy three five games, Jayalen
Williams seventy one, Check Holnger eighty two, Josh Giddy eighty,
Lou Dort seventy nine. So don't I don't understand what
Presty's talking about. And Rob, we've talked about it with
(37:58):
Carrie Kittles, how the game is so spread out now
and players have to cover more ground defensively, so it's
tougher on the joints.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
And they're just.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
It makes sense, But Rob, we don't know. It's only
a theory that carry and maybe some others have. We
don't know if it's true or not because others. Antonio
Daniels thinks it's because they don't practice and play.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
Hard enough, they don't play enough games.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
He thinks it's the low management is actually the reason
they're getting hurt.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
I don't know which one is right.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
And what about the league needs the league, ROB needs
to do their best to get to the bottom of it, right.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
And we talked about Chris all the off season workouts
and the trainers and like the year round stuff that
maybe is just too much. Maybe it's that stuff, like
like guys they don't get.
Speaker 5 (38:49):
Their bodies arrest, they don't give.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Their bodies a rest, and they feel like if they're
not doing something in the offseason, like they're cheating somebody.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
It's okay, there's no question about that. I agree with you,
and so I don't know what the reason is. Those
are some theories that we've thrown out there, and others
have thrown out as well. But I tell you what
Sam Prescy's saying, Rob. To me, this comes off like
eighty two games is just too much, and I don't
think that's fair to expect fans to pay top dollar
(39:21):
to get in the games. And yet the best players
are are penciled in for fifteen law missus forget getting hurt.
That'll be another fifteen or whatever, but they're penciled in
for fifteen.
Speaker 5 (39:39):
So and again, I don't put it all on the players, Rob.
I've talked about it.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
A lot of this is team training staffs, so we'll see.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
It's interesting, but I think the league needs to do
what it can to get to the bottom.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
And I do, Rob. I don't think reporters should settle for.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
We don't know.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
I mean they need to figure this out because you
don't want your most important games having your best players
be out, Rob. The Celtics run to the finals is
the easiest.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Cake walk I can recall.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
In the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
I might be missing one or two, but off the
top of my head, I can't recall an easier cake guard.
Whether the three teams you beat to get to the
finals all were missing their best player for at least
half of the series.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yep and Chris the other other one people talk about
always as the Warriors their first championship. Three of the
point guards were all out on those teams right every start.
Speaker 5 (40:47):
That was nothing.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
They still had to get through Lebron's but I'm just saying,
but they did they did have. They did have that
made it a little easier
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
Couple at Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Bruson and Ron Harker.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Yesterday we talked about the Negro Leagues statistics being integrated
into Major League Baseball's official statistics, and so that means
that like, instead of Ty Cobb having the all time
record for career batting average, I think his was three
(00:53):
sixty two or something like that.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
I think it was three sixty six.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Okay, Josh Gibson now has it in his is three
seventy three or three seventy two. So things like that,
you know. And now, Rob, I think three of the
top five batting averages of all time are players from
the Negro Leagues. And that got me to thinking, Rob,
(01:20):
what about should other leagues follow suit and maybe integrate
if there were legitimate leagues going on besides their own,
should other leagues kind of integrate those into the statistics.
And mainly the one I was thinking about, Rob is
(01:41):
the ABA and the NBA.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I thought that that's where you were coming up with
this was was the ABA and NBA. And I'm the
only reason I'm gonna say, I'm gonna pause and say no,
is that there wasn't some diabolical thing that stopped people
from playing either the ABA or the NBA. And they
(02:04):
were separate entities that don't have the the the mark.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
On it, Chris.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
It wasn't discrimination, right.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
They just didn't, you know, like it just there's nothing
there that says that you couldn't have played in the
ABA or you couldn't have been playing in the NBA.
We talk about all the time, Dave Winfield was drafted
by both the ABA, the NBA, the NFL and Major
League Baseball, right like like he could.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Have played in the ABA or he could have played
in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Where I think the only reason why this works in
baseball is because of.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
What happened historically.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
And it wasn't about people's lack of skill. This wasn't
a skills burrier, Chris. It was strictly a color barrier.
It didn't matter how good you were or what you
could do, if you were black, you couldn't play. And
I think that that's the difference and why it's important.
I know I had people today talk about each year
(03:06):
Row before he came to the United States, Chris, I
think he had two thousand hits in Japan.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Should he could be the all time hits leader if.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
We include his hits in Japan? And then he got
another what three thousand here? Right as each year Row
the all time hit leader if we include his stats
in Japan. Again, No, because at that time that's where
he was playing.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
There was no bar for him to come. You know,
maybe he couldn't.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
You'd have to pay those Japanese teams to release them,
but there was no racial prejudice or something that barred
his ability just based on his skin color or you know, whatever.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
You might take.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So I think what baseball's done here is a little different,
and I'm cool with this, but I don't want everything
merged together.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
No, that's fair. I think what you said is fair.
Certainly it was racial discrimination. Racism is what it was.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Clip player and simple, right. There's no if no gray area.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Anybody who thinks that those guys couldn't play or kidna themselves.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Chris, Oh, absolutely mean you're not.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
If you if you're trying to say that the Negro
League's players weren't as good and the Negro League itself
was not as good as Major League Baseball. I think
that's just racist, because when you look at what African
Americans have done in baseball, Chris up now, they can
(04:36):
be are just as good as any other race, and
many of the greatest players ever are African American. Many
Rob and Martin White said this last night. From nineteen
forty nine to nineteen sixty two, they had fourteen MVPs
in the National League, Eleven of them were black, Hello,
(05:00):
and all but one of them, Morey Willis, had actually
played in the Negro leagues.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
So you can't.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
I mean, that's just in addition to the fact that
they used to play each other sometimes and the black
teams would win just as much as the white teams.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
That's knowing it so forth, So.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I think, and Rod, we throw in the fact that
the Federal League and even a few other leagues have
their statistics recognized by the mana League Baseball. For you
to not raise anything a stink about those and now
you want to get mad about the negro leagues, you
need to look in the mirror and see what your
real motive is.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Real talk and the thing you bring up do you know?
You know why?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And we talked about this to a little bit yesterday,
Chris on why all those MVPs were in the National League,
because that was the Black League. The white American League
didn't have and didn't want. I told you the last
three teams with black players Red Sox Yankees talk. I
(06:00):
think other three.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
You said those were fo you mentioned four yet and
the other one was the Phillies. The other one was
the Phillies. That's what they're National League, you know what
I mean? But those were those three teams were the last.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
And I brought up Boston because Jackie Robinson broken in
nineteen forty seven, Chris, nineteen fifty nine, twelve years after Jackie,
twelve years. Could you imagine sitting in the stands going, what,
we still don't have a black player.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
They didn't care, They kept going no.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
I'm sure if many of the fans were fine with it.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
But here's what got me thinking about the ABA and
rob It was before this way, before this where I
started really looking at this, because when I really sat
down and analyzed the ABA versus the NBA, what I saw, obviously,
Rob so many If you go to the nineteen late
(06:57):
sixties through really that decade from the mid sixties to
the mid seventies, and you name the best player basketball
players in the world at that time, Rob in that decade,
half of them were in the ABA. Doctor j George Gervin,
artist Gilmore, dan Issel, rick Berry, you could go on
(07:22):
and on, Charlie Scott. They had some terrific players. And
then Rob. Cause you know, obviously we talk a lot
about championships when we measure players, greatness and all of
that stuff.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
And when I looked at you know.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
The ABA and the NBA, ROB used to play exhibition
games where their teams, not all star teams, but like
their regular teams would play against each other.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
So ABA teams would play.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
NBA teams and so on and so forth.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
And Rob.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
They did this throughout, you know, for several years, and
the ABA came out on top. ABA won seventy nine games,
the NBA won seventy six. And then when they the
last three years before the merger, the ABA won sixty
(08:18):
five percent of the games, So you cannot say that
the ABA was not as good as the NBA.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
It might have even been better.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
And with so many of those players moving into the NBA, Rob,
I look at what that would do for legacies, like,
for instance, doctor J. Now doctor J is Rob, Guess
where do you think Doctor J ranks all time in
NBA scoring?
Speaker 5 (08:48):
Like what number thirtieth, chiens whatever.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I'm gonna say, twenty fifth, I don't know where doctor
J twenty fifth?
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Seven? These six? Wow, well, yeah, he joined the league.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
That that makes sense, a little later he joined the
league in was seventy six, Crystal.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Seven his first year. Yeah, play.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I think he retired in eighty six, maybe eighty seven, Yeah,
ten years. But Rob, if you counted his ABA stats,
which again I think we've established was against just as
good as competition, he would be eighth.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Doctor J had thirty thousand points total.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
He also would have three MVPs instead of one. He
would have three championships instead of one, And so that
starts to change the way you look at things. And
I look, I think the one challenge with this, like
it would be easy Rob to merge the stats, but
(09:55):
the question is championships. So do you just say that
for those ten years or whatever that the ABA was around,
there were two you know what I mean, there's an
ABA champion and an NBA champion. I mean, you could
do that, there's no nothing wrong with that. But I
just think the ABA has a legitimate because you're right.
It wasn't racial discrimination, no question. It was just right, but.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
Very close, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
And not only the fact that so many ABA players
ended up playing in the NBA, that they played against
each other in ABA was just as good. But rob
today's NBA resembles the ABA more than the NBA of
that time, night or wide open more the street ball
in the ABA, which the NBA was a lot more
(10:44):
sedate and you know, formulaic and stuff. You're right, the
three point line even were cheerleaders slam duncan.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
That was all a B A BA stuff, right, And
Chris uh, here you go.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
You can tell me I'm wrong. You can tell me i'm.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I think part of the disrespect.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
For the A B A And just tell me if
I'm off base.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I think the red, white and blue ball made it
like a clowns league.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
I don't agree, Okay, I mean, okay, we were kids
so I was a kid, I remember actually having a
red white and blue we.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Had an aball.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
But but I sometimes because that's the ball that the
HALLM Globe Trotters used.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, look, you might be right. I don't think you're right.
But again, I was a kid at the time.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Right about the Globe Trotters. Didn't they use that ball? Right,
a red white and blue ball?
Speaker 4 (11:43):
I think, well, you.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Checked that out for us, please, I'm almost positive that
they did.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
But I don't think that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I think it's just it was rober Let's face it,
it's competition, right. The NBA was trying to squash the
A b ah some degree, right, they did, and they
want to be We're the King, We're the King League.
But you could be right. I don't think it's it's that.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
He picked up.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Rob g did look it up, and I'm right they
try to use the red white and blue ball like
because it was colorful, it was entertaining, it was of
that ilk.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Whereas you're right.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
The NBA was more drab, you know what I mean, Chris,
and more.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
They didn't have cheerleaders at halftime doing dance or in
between you know, breaks and things like that.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
The other league.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Rob rob g we were talking about this before the show,
and he mentioned the Japanese League as you did with
Ichi Row And my thing that that, I guess is
similar to your argument against the AB. I said, number one,
it wasn't racial discrimination. There was no discrimination that you
know as the why the league's were separate. And two,
(12:56):
that's a whole nother country and not even the whole
of the country, that a whole nother continent. I mean,
you can't just include every that's on the other side
of the world, Like I don't think that that's understandably separate.
At least the ABA it was here in America and
it became an integral part of the NBA.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
That would be my argument that that's.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Not that's not ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I mean, I get it if you wanted to somehow
combine the two and make it just basketball kind of
like see if it was like that, like you having
baseball the American League in the National League make up
the major leagues.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You had the A, B, A and NBA, Chris, and
they make up major basketball league.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
You know what I mean? Like that would be a BA,
NBA American League.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
National League, like I think that it would have to
be of that ILK, like if you were to try
to make it mesh.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Well, let me ask you this before we open it
up to callers.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I mean, and I don't know how much you delve
into the rankings yourself other than just when we talk
about it. But Doctor J, now he's got one championship
and one MVP in the NBA. If he were now
a guy that s they had three MVPs and three championships,
would that.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
That would change kind of where we right, doctor J.
There's no doubt about it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
To be honest, I think the sad part is Chris
because the ABA didn't survive. And those four teams for
people who don't know, you know, you can look it up.
But four teams went into the NBA, Nuggets, PA, Pacers,
and uh.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Who was the fourth who merged?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Nuggets, Pacers, Nets and the nets?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Right and the Nets? Those are the four that made
it in.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
So it wasn't an equal merger.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
That's the other and that's the other thing why the
NBA holds the power because.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Exactly that's my point.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
There's only four teams going into the league. It wasn't
like it was twelve and twelve, you know, like or
something like that.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
The ABM MAD they had about eleven twelve teams, and
that's the thing. The NBA always have more teams, so
that part is legitimate. But I last thing I'll say, Rob,
I've thought about. Look when Jerry West won his only
ring in seventy two, half the best players in the
world were in the ABA. When that's Wilt's second ring,
(15:26):
When Oscar Robertson won his only ring, half the best
players in the ABA, Kareem's first ring. The Knicks two championships,
half of the best players in the world weren't even
in the NBA. So that you know what I mean.
If we do value those championships, I'm thinking we should
value the guys that wanted in the ABA just as much.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
with Chris Brussard and Rob Parker weekdays at seven pm
Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
App two NBA Insiders podcasting twice a week to plug
you right into the NBA great.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
Fight, all happening in only one place.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
This league.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
Uncut, the new NBA podcast with me, Chris Haynes and me.
Mark Stein join us as we team up to expound
on everything we're covering. Hearing and Chason.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Listen to This League Uncut with Chris Haynes and Mark Stein.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
He's an NBA champion, Serious XM NBA analysts, New Orleans
Pelicans color analysts, and now a Fox Sports Radio NBA
analyst as well. Our man, Antonio Daniels, Antonio, what's up man?
Speaker 7 (16:47):
Doing all right?
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Doing great?
Speaker 7 (16:51):
I'm awesome and join these games, that's for sure. Well,
what's less.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Gentleman? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
What is left of this Western Conference series between Dallas
and Minnesota. You think Minnesota can really make this thing
a serious or you think it'll just be a gentleman.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
Sweet You know, it's weird because I kind of go
back and forth. I felt like if Minnesota was going
to get a game, yesterday was the game to get,
especially after what Kyrie Irving says.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
You think that was just a sign that they may
have relaxed Dallas.
Speaker 7 (17:23):
Yes, Yeah, it's easy, and I get it. It's human nature.
It's easy to relaxed because you got Game four at home.
You know you got games at home, and you've also
won in Minnesota twice, so I can understand the human
nature element to kind of take a step back, like,
(17:43):
you know what, Look, we are the better team here
and we know that. So if there's a game I
felt like Minnesota was gonna get. I felt like yesterday
was the game, especially after Kyrie Irving said this is
their super Bowl, but it's just another game run. No.
I think that kind of brings on again. There's a
human nature involved element involved here, and I think that
(18:04):
Dallas relaxed somewhat yesterday.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
It does happen human nature and the team. You know this, Antonio,
your season is over. You put in a yeoman's effort.
But we've seen a lot of gentleman sweeps where a
team will win a game and then finally succumb, So so.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
I'm not that surprised.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Chris and I both picked Minnesota to win yesterday, just
having that feel of it that they would, you know,
muster up enough to get a win, right, And I
think it's human nature. But going forward, how important is
it for Dallas to just okay, end it here even
though it's on the road, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Do you want to end it?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
You don't want to come back for a Game six
at home, because then anything can happen.
Speaker 7 (18:52):
And that that's the way to put it. Anything can happen.
And we've seen this, you know, we've seen this for years.
We saw it in the New York Knick series. When
you have an opportunity to end the series, you end
the series because you never know what's going to happen, right,
You have no idea. The more you play, the more
you play, what you are opening yourself up to, especially
(19:13):
if you're a team that's a hit, is the possibility
of something going wrong. Right. There's nothing good that comes
from continue games. For the Dallas Mavericks, nothing good can
come from that. Everything good comes from Minnesota continuing to
build up a little bit hope with every game that
they win. If you're the Dallas Mavericks, nothing good comes
(19:33):
from a Game six. Nothing You have to play game
five because you lost that game. I mean you won
that game. You lost. So now, if you are the
Dallas Mavericks, nothing good can come from games that are
continued to be played. When you have an option to
finish the series.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
There's a lot of talk like if Dallas does win
the series, let's say in five do you think there's
a lot of talk about, well, what should Minnesota trade
Carl Anthony Towns?
Speaker 5 (20:04):
Should they?
Speaker 4 (20:05):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 7 (20:06):
Amazing? And I tell you for me, it's what I
really find to be amazing about the postseason and how
quickly narratives changed, like from one series to another. Anthony
Edwards went from Michael B. Jordan's to Michael Jordan to
Jordan Poole, Like, I mean, what are we doing?
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I might steal that? Who might Who's a writer? I
wouldn't know who the writer is.
Speaker 7 (20:35):
No, but these are things that you see like on
our on our on our show the Denver Nuggets, after
they lost my co host Rick Hamdler came on the
next day and said, oh, you know what, Michael Porter
needs to be traded. Why because he had a bad series?
Like this is what we do. I love the postseason,
(20:56):
but there's a constant overreaction to a sea. The one
thing I would love to see from KR Anthony Towns
more than anything else, more than the shot making and
the three point shooting and the taking advantage of mismassage,
is defensive discipline. This is the thing I'm watching these
games that is literally driving me. But Banana, like, dude,
(21:19):
you have to be smarter defensively. The fact that he
is in foul trouble every single game, it's problematic for
the Minnesota Timberwolves. It has to come a point where
you learn on the fly, you connect mental data. Okay,
this is what I can do. This is what I can't.
You cannot be in foul trouble every single game for
Minnesota to have a chance to extend this series.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
I'm with you, and look, I might listen.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I might pick up the phone if people want to,
you know, make me some great offers for towns. But
I look some of this Chris. No, I'm not saying
I was shot. Hold on, I'm not saying I was shopping.
I'm not saying I would be looking to trade it.
I'm just saying if somebody called me and I would listen,
That's all I mean.
Speaker 7 (22:02):
Here's the thing. You you went, not you, meaning the
Minnesota Timberwolves a year ago made it to the first round.
You can't skip steps. Now they're all the way to
the Western Conference Finals, right, They've already over at Seved
so do you really break this team up? Do you
know what what gets me about again about the postseason
(22:24):
and sometimes not making it to the postseason, there's an
organizational arrogance. I think that teams forget where they come from.
The Cleveland Cavaliers, they forgot where they come from.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
What did they expect from dating right?
Speaker 7 (22:36):
Right? What did they expect? Like the Minnesota Timberwolves a
year ago were at home this time. Now you didn't
just get out the first round. You didn't just get
out the second round. You'd beat last year's champion and
advance all the way to the Western Conference finals. And
now there are talks about trading Karl Anthony Towns. I
will not understand that. What's the whatever.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
I agree with you and that I wouldn't be shopping,
But I think there's an element of Look, obviously, we
think Anthony Edwards is gonna learn from this and improve,
and I think Cat, that's what you have to hope
he does as well.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
He's only I think twenty eight or twenty nine. He's
still relatively young.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Himself, so he's gotta make that jump, you know, from
learn This is his first time.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
This deep in the playoffs, past the first down.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
So I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
I'm not gonna say it. I still somebody called me.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
I'm listening, but I'm not shopping eire trying to move.
Speaker 7 (23:34):
Okay, So I have a question for both of you guys,
who do you think would be a better fit in
Minnesota than Karlins in the towns are the four spot?
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
That's why I'm saying, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I don't know a.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Realistic move out there. That's why I'm leaning that I
would just keep it, and I think I think he
can learn and grow anyway.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Because still, really there really isn't a real stick, no
one pick out there that you could just drop been
and say, oh yeah, this makes them better tomorrow. So
once you don't have that, I think you got to
be very careful not to overreact, no question. Yeah, and
that's what people do. Clipper, Sidne and ty Lou, where
do you rank him? Chris and I are very high
(24:15):
on ticket Lou. I think he's a tremendous coach. He's
a guy who's got a championship in his back pocket
that hasn't saved a lot of other coaches who have
been fired. He's probably loves La comfortable with Steve Balmer.
If I'm him, I take that job and that extension.
Speaker 7 (24:31):
Oh, no question. But the thing is these extensions. It's
so funny life is about Timmy. The moment Darby Ham
got fired and toront Lu's came toront Lu's name came up,
then you start hearing about extensions from the Clippers. It's
funny how it once because it's not a long commute
from the Clippers to the Lakers. That's not a long.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Commute at all.
Speaker 7 (24:51):
It's about one hundred feet exactly exactly. So I love
toront Leo as a coach because I think he has
both all right down pack. You know, some coaches have
one side down, the X and O side, the adjustment side,
and other coaches don't have the X and O side down,
but they have the player relations side. I feel like
(25:11):
Toron Lou has both sides down, his ability to kind
of garner respect in that locker room and on the
other side. I don't know if there's a better in
game adjustment coach out there now. There may be coaches
when the game is over from game one to game two,
game two to game three are great at making adjustments.
Toron Lo's ability to make adjustments in game throughout the
(25:34):
course of a game, from quarter to quarter and half
to half. Honestly, they may be unmatched now in today's NBA.
This is good for him. I'm happy for him.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
People are talking about back courts, you know, all time
great back courts, I said, obviously with the Luca Kyrie
and you know, and whatnot. My question is, and I
saw this on Twitter and I just thought, where where
does this fit in for you? People said, what about
Isaiah and Joe Dumares, Isaiah Thomas?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Not my question. My question to you is where do
they fit in? Not if they're the best, but where
do they fit into you?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
They mean in Isaiah, Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars.
Speaker 7 (26:12):
Okay, So here's my thing, because I've said this for
a while or two. This is the most skilled backcourt
in history. So the thing is, you can you can
make one of the two a wash. I don't care
however you break it down Isaiah and Joe Dumars. Let's
just say Isaiah and Kyrie are a washed. Both smaller guards,
(26:32):
both great handles, both great finishers. But when you look
at Luca skill wise and compare him to Joe Dumars,
no disrespect to Joe Dumares. But the thing is, this
isn't a debate.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Well but we but but we're not talking about skill wise.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I mean, David Robinson might have had more skills than Shack,
but who was better Shack?
Speaker 5 (26:53):
You know?
Speaker 7 (26:53):
So, Ja, what are we saying?
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Where does that here?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
I give you if they win, if if the Mavericks
win this championship.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I know this.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
This is the third best backcour ever Stephen Isaiah Dumars,
number two, Luca Kyrie number three.
Speaker 7 (27:13):
All right, that's fair, Okay, fair, I'll rock with that.
And so for me, I'm okay with that. ISAA Thomas
was my favorite player growing up.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
All right, brother, we got we gotta thank you, brother.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
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to listen live.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
All right, Rob Sam Presty who runs basket Operations in
Oklahoma City, and Rob you. Sam Presty is a great executive,
fantastic executive. Obviously, he built that team that never won
a championship but had Kevin Durant James Harden, and Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
All three went on to win MVP Awards.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
All three will be first ballot Hall of Famers, and
all three are just terrific players, without question.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
And he drafted them all and so you gotta give
him credit for that.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Obviously, Kad might have been a no brainer because Greg
Golden went first. Right remember that Rob in Seattle and
Presty I didn't have a air in Seattle. I don't
even know that he was. I don't know that he
was the one in Seattle that drafted.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
Durant. But Harden and Westbrook were not no brainers. And
then Rob that team breaks up.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
You know, of course Durant leaves to go to Golden State,
and Westbrook eventually, you know, he stays, but is eventually traded.
Of course, Harden left early when he went to Houston
to become a superstar. And now Rob Sam Presty had
has rebuilt this thing again.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
You got he fleeced. Now it looks like fleet.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I mean it really is a fleece because Paul George
and Kawhi Leonard couldn't stay healthy for the Clippers. But
he did trade Paul George in the deal that got him,
Shay Gilders, Alexander, a lot of draft picks, and now
he's built around Shade Jalen Williams, great fine chet Holmgren. Look,
I think he's gonna be a star. And so they
(29:28):
are at Rowland in ok See, Rob number one seed
in the West, got to the second round, youngest team
ever in the.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
History of the league to win a playoff series.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
So they got to the second round.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
And next year, Rob, you know, I don't know that
they could win it next year, but they'll probably go,
you know, they'll have a chance to go a step further,
and in a couple of years they'll probably be knocking
on the door and ready to maybe win a championship.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
And so he's a great executive.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And today or yesterday he spoke to the media, Rob,
and I was surprised because Sam doesn't really say a lot,
you know, a lot of stuff that's really controversial or newsworthy.
But yesterday when he spoke to the media for two
and a half hours, Rob, he blamed three things.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
He said, the reason.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
So many of these stars and you and I have
talked about it at nauseum. So many of these stars
are hurt in the playoffs rob most teams. Most teams
have a star player who is hurt.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
I mean we got the Knicks. Julius Randall was out Philadelphia.
I won't say and be because he played, but he
was hurt. Cavaliers lost, Donovan Mitchell, Pacers, Tyrese Halliburton, Milwaukee,
Yannis Ante to Kumbo. That's not even to mention Dames
in the little he Jimmy Butler. That's five of the
(30:57):
eight playoff teams in the East. We go to the West, Nuggets.
I mean, you could mention Jamal Murray. We won't have
we won't was banked up. He was banged up, right.
The West was a little better. Clippers, obviously, Kawhi, I
think just about every Obviously Phoenix had injuries throughout the year,
but not in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
Lucas played banged.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Up for the Mavericks, Science yeah for the Pelicans. So
so almost half the playoff teams had lost a big
time player or and more than half either, you know,
if you include players that played through injury. And Sam
Presty Rod blamed it on three things. One was the
NBA's new sixty five game rule, where you had to
(31:41):
play Hey I'm gonna let you just let me get
through it and then you can go off. You know
where you had to play at least sixty five games
to be eligible for postseason awards.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
Two was the end season tournament.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Now remember they didn't play any more games, but just
the way I guess they were scheduled, he said, didn't
give him as much rest. And then three, the way
you you heard this, Rob, in the second half of
the season, they the officials let the players be more physical.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
And so he said, those are the three things.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Sixty five game rule in season, tournament change, and officiating
to allow more physical play in the second half of
the season. That is why so many guys are hurting
the playoffs, Rob Parker, your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
No.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Sam Presty stopping Chris? Is this new?
Speaker 1 (32:37):
This has been going on for years now. Come on, Sam, really,
Kawhi Leonard? Can we just just take Kawhi Leonard?
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Chris?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Is it this year that Kawhi lench has been heard
for the last five years?
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Come on, game rule or tournament? In any of those years.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
There were no tournament, There was none of that.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
You're using it as an excuse to ask somebody to play.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Chris sixty five out of eighty two games is a crime.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
That's a that's a c Oh my god, how can
they play sixty five games?
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Forget eighty two, Chris.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Out of three hundred and sixty five days a year,
you can't play sixty five games.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
Really, that's the reason that they're hurt.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
They have better everything, better doctors, better training staffs, massages, Chris,
everything better, better living conditions, better travel, accommodations. I mean,
my god, everything is better. And this whole notion again,
(33:47):
You didn't add more games, Chris, whether you like the
nd season tournament.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Or not, they didn't add ten games. They didn't make
you play, nor did you play three and three nights
there you go, or something that right to make for
back to backs.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
None of that.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
And the idea too, that the playoffs, and the idea that,
my god, they actually let officials allow players to defend.
How my goodness, gracious, Chris, how awful is that? How
are the players going to react if someone's actually trying
to make a play or stop at the end of
(34:23):
the game and they have to touch the other player?
Speaker 4 (34:26):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Like, I just cannot that Sam Presty would let that
come out of his mouth as the reasons why is
total bs total.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Poppy cock?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yes, thank you, googly googly goop, thanks Grady, and all
of that other stuff.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Chris, none of it makes sense to me.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
And Rob.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
If Sam Presty and and he did say, Rob, g
correct me if I'm wrong. He has numbers to back
up or at least you know, he thinks back up
what he's saying. But Rob, if he believes this, then
why are we playing eighty two games? Basically, what you're
saying is they can't play eighty two games anymore. That's
(35:16):
what he's saying. If sixty five games is too much,
then forget about eighty two. If the nd season tournament
which added no games, is too much.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Forget about eighty two. And they let you play a
little physical. They played far more physical in.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
The nineties and early two thousands, and those guys played, Chris,
I don't have the numbers, and we talk about it.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
All run played.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
They played eighty games a year.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
They pay Oh god, do what he's going to a
year thinking I'm gonna miss any games.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Every player's goal was eighty two games.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Chris and I talk about this all the time. And
this is oh lie. When we were covering the league
as beat writers, did we ever in our and our imaginations,
Chris go to the arena and go, I wonder if
Patrick Ewan's playing tonight, did you right? I wonder if
it is he gonna rest it's Kerry Kittles playing tonight?
(36:17):
Like like Chris, you never thought about that. That was
not in our even even our thoughts.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
It wasn't even in the players thoughts either or the
coaches start. It was not an issue whatsoever. And Rob,
I'm serious and I'm not. If Sam said these things,
then what he was essentially saying is we can't play
eighty two game season anymore.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
And I'm telling you, Rob, and I don't think that
we've talked about it.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
They're not gonna cut the games when they can sell
out eighty two games a year.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Oh, that you cannot. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
It is disingenuous to have eighty two games if you
don't think your players can play.
Speaker 8 (36:57):
It's because, Rob, what if the game I pick to
take my son to on his birthday and three of
his friends and I spend out sholl out five hundred
dollars because I want to go see Shake Gilgers Alexander
and not today.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
He's resting because he can't. He's healthy as all get out,
but he can't play the two. It's not fair. Now,
Sam Presty may not. I don't know that he's right,
but I'm just saying. And it's odd to Rob because
his team was a healthy team. That was one of
the reasons they were able to have the best record
(37:36):
in the West is because their starters, for the most
part played Shake Gilgers played seventy three five games, Jayalen
Williams seventy one, Check Holnger eighty two, Josh Giddy eighty,
Lou Dort seventy nine. So don't I don't understand what
Presty's talking about. And Rob, we've talked about it with
(37:58):
Carrie Kittles, how the game is so spread out now
and players have to cover more ground defensively, so it's
tougher on the joints.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
And they're just.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
It makes sense, But Rob, we don't know. It's only
a theory that carry and maybe some others have. We
don't know if it's true or not because others. Antonio
Daniels thinks it's because they don't practice and play.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
Hard enough, they don't play enough games.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
He thinks it's the low management is actually the reason
they're getting hurt.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
I don't know which one is right.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
And what about the league needs the league, ROB needs
to do their best to get to the bottom of it, right.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
And we talked about Chris all the off season workouts
and the trainers and like the year round stuff that
maybe is just too much. Maybe it's that stuff, like
like guys they don't get.
Speaker 5 (38:49):
Their bodies arrest, they don't give.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Their bodies a rest, and they feel like if they're
not doing something in the offseason, like they're cheating somebody.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
It's okay, there's no question about that. I agree with you,
and so I don't know what the reason is. Those
are some theories that we've thrown out there, and others
have thrown out as well. But I tell you what
Sam Prescy's saying, Rob. To me, this comes off like
eighty two games is just too much, and I don't
think that's fair to expect fans to pay top dollar
(39:21):
to get in the games. And yet the best players
are are penciled in for fifteen law missus forget getting hurt.
That'll be another fifteen or whatever, but they're penciled in
for fifteen.
Speaker 5 (39:39):
So and again, I don't put it all on the players, Rob.
I've talked about it.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
A lot of this is team training staffs, so we'll see.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
It's interesting, but I think the league needs to do
what it can to get to the bottom.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
And I do, Rob. I don't think reporters should settle for.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
We don't know.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
I mean they need to figure this out because you
don't want your most important games having your best players
be out, Rob. The Celtics run to the finals is
the easiest.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Cake walk I can recall.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
In the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
I might be missing one or two, but off the
top of my head, I can't recall an easier cake guard.
Whether the three teams you beat to get to the
finals all were missing their best player for at least
half of the series.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yep and Chris the other other one people talk about
always as the Warriors their first championship. Three of the
point guards were all out on those teams right every start.
Speaker 5 (40:47):
That was nothing.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
They still had to get through Lebron's but I'm just saying,
but they did they did have. They did have that
made it a little easier
Hosts And Creators
kelvin washington
Rob Parker
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