August 5, 2024 • 36 mins
FOX Sports Radio Weekend host Martin Weiss is in for Rob, and he and Chris debate whether it’s reasonable for the players to vote Patrick Mahomes as the league’s 4th best player in the annual NFL Top 100 and explain why Eli Manning feels like a lock to make the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Plus, former All-NBA guard Michael Redd swings by to discuss how the 2024 Team USA squad would matchup with the 1992 Dream Team, how the overall style of play in America has evolved over the last thirty years, what made his 2008 Redeem Team so special and much more!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
Couple at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us
live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brushaw and Ron Harker.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
We were on the air when it was announced, correct
me if I'm wrong Martin when it was announced, though,
I think yeah, we were on the air if I
remember correctly, when it was announced that Patrick Mahomes came
in fourth place in the NFL one hundred list that
was voted on by the players. Third place was Christian McCaffrey,
(00:53):
the running back for the San Francisco forty nine ers.
Second place Lamar Jackson, who won the MVP for the
Baltimore Ravens, obviously at quarterback.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
In first place the wide receiver. First wide receiver ever.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
To be number one since they started this poll in
two thousand and eleven, Tyreek Hill of the Miami Dolphins.
The focus though Patrick Mahomes being fourth.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
What are your thoughts on that, Martin.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
All Right, is Patrick Mahomes the fourth best player in football? No,
he is the first best player in football. We I
think most of us can come to agreement with that.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
Now.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Him being ranked fourth after last year, though, is not
some grave injustice that I feel like I must champion
hip from on high. Right, I understand, like you know
your TV partner, he's got the every single slight thatever
is real or.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
Imaginable to Patrick Mahomes he puts on a board. I
get that lot of.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Them coming for a three time champion in six years.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
But go ahead, but this to me is not one
when you really well with a flight when you do
this voting, right, Rob g told me the voting for
the top one hundred occurred in the midst of Week fourteen.
If you go back to where week fourteen in your brain,
that is the season in which Patrick Mahomes has thrown
(02:17):
what the most interceptions he had thrown?
Speaker 5 (02:20):
He hasn't, like I mean.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Here barely threw four over four hundred yards, second lowest
marking yards and second lowest marketing touchdowns that he had
in his career with twenty seven and a career high
fourteen interceptions.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Right, Was that all on him?
Speaker 4 (02:33):
No, I won't blame all of that on him, but
that's still was the resume you were voting against. When
you look at this, If you go back to the
NBP odds in week fourteen, Christian McCaffrey, Lamar Jackson, and
Tyreek Hill were all in the top six. Patrick Mahomes
was nowhere to be found at that moment in time, right,
(02:53):
So when you look at this, to me, it is
more of a function of when the voting occurred as
opposed to some big slight Because if they had done it.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
After the Super Bowl, for example, I think that.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Everyone would have had Patrick Mahomes listed as number one,
and he may have been the first unanimous overall number
one pick. I know how they do these lists. They
poll guys and they have the players that do they
fill their top twenty, right, and then they rank, Okay,
who got the most first place votes, who got the
most second place and so on to build out the list.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
There's so many more egregious things.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
On this lift than Mahomes being not one instead of
being four that those things have me much more fired up.
If he was eighth or ninth, I'd be fired about
that too. But when you look at the three guys
in front of them and the year they had at
the time to the voting, I can't fault. I really
can't get too worked up about it.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Well, you said it.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
As far as the timing, it is understandable when you
understand and I don't know that it was week fourteen.
The article I read in GQ said it was somewhere
between Thanksgiving and New Years. But if you look at
the month of December, the Chansaity Chiefs were two and three.
(04:08):
Patrick Mahomes had I believe, six touchdowns and five interceptions,
and we all know he wasn't having He didn't have
his best year for the whole year, had his worst
year of his career. That wasn't a terrible year, but
by his standards, it was subparte.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
It was his worse of the year.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And you are right if you go going into December,
Tyreek Hill had seven one hundred plus yard receiving games.
He was averaging one hundred and twenty receiving yards per
game at that point I think was still on track
(04:47):
or close to it, of breaking the all time receiving
record and maybe getting two thousand yards receiving, which has
never been done. And then in the month of December,
kill had December and on so December and January, Tyree
Gill had one one hundred or more yard receiving game
(05:08):
period the rest of the year. So I agree with
you and Lamar and McCaffrey at that point in December,
if you will, were looking like the front runners for MVP.
So it is understandable. But here's where I want to
take this, Martin. Even as we all watched and even
as Patrick Mahomes was not having a great year by
(05:32):
his standards, and we know a lot of that had
to do with, you know, guys dropping footballs, And I
mean he had the most drops in the league from
his receivers. And Kelsey looked old until the playoffs start,
so Kelsey wasn't having a great year either. But even
as that was going on, Martin, and even as several
(05:53):
quarterbacks were playing better than Mahomes, I still viewed him
as the best in the world, as the best quarterback
and best football.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Player, best player in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And so what I want to ask you, So, if
I were voting at that time, I still would have
had Patrick.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Mahomes number one.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Uh, He's still at that point had two Super Bowls championships,
he still had two MVPs. He had done enough where
I think most people, not all, but most people, like
now virtually everybody recognizes him as the best quarterback in
the world. At that time, I would say seventy five
(06:44):
percent of pundits maybe that we see on TV would
have had Mahomes number one.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
And maybe maybe I'm underestimating it.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
But questioning it, but you think at that point some
people thought Josh or Burrow not a lot, but we
gots you think Joe was hurt By that point, I
think Josh Allen.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Would have been the only person who you would have
found credible sources TV talking ads throwing in that conversation.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
Honestly.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Okay, So the question I want to ask you is
does the best player, like if he's clearly the best,
whether it was a Michael Jordan, a Lebron James, now
it's you know, Patrick Mahomes, do they have to be
having the best individual season for you to recognize them
(07:34):
as the best, Like most of these guys, I think, honestly,
two to five and maybe two to six is up
in the air right now. It could be Lamar. It
could be Burrow. I'm talking about quarterbacks. It could be
Josh Allen and maybe I'm not sure yet, but we'll see.
Maybe it could be CJ. Strout right. But that's gonna
(07:56):
fluctuate year to year. To me, Number one, ain't fluctuating
for the next I might be being generous and saying five
years or let's say.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Three years, really generous. I'd locked in three for sure.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Let's say three for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And so that's what I want to ask you, Like,
like Lebron didn't have to win the championship every year.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
You know that he was the best player.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
For us to recognize he's still the best player in
the world.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
But Chris during that time period when Lebron James was
basically hosting the Eastern Conference Invitational, right when he was
the best player in the NBA, and there was all
these teams going and bumping their heads against whether it
be Cleveland or Miami, as he was going to represent
one half of the NBA in the finals for damn
near a decade. He didn't win the MVP every year.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
He didn't, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
So, like, no, like we can still agree that off
the entire track record of your career. Where you rank
of the all time? Are you know saying where you
reckon up the whole league? Maybe different? And where you
ranking individual seasons? Right, we've established this is already true.
Tom Brady was the best quarterback for at minimal, at minimum,
(09:08):
Tom Brady was the best quarterback for ten of his
twenty three years. And and you know he was only
first team All Pro three times. Exactly my point, exactly
my point. We're after it was all said and done,
did we sit back and be like, oh man, how
did this guy win first Team All Pro?
Speaker 5 (09:26):
When Tom Brady? Is this that the third like? No,
like after a while, these.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Roties awards they changed, they move around, but this is
specifically based off a year to year basis.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, but that see the point you're making I agree with.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And that's why I still think even at that time,
while it's somewhat understandable, I think they should have still
had Mahomes number one.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
And I think it.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Is rather egregious that he's not because Aaron Rodgers didn't
play a snap, well what no play four snaps and
was ninety two.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Joe her missed seven.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Games and in half of the ten he played, he
didn't play well, and I'm being generous there. It might
have been six or seven of the ten he played
didn't play well.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
He still was thirty ninth.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
But at least what Burrow you can say he walked
into Levi Stadium and beat the forty nine ers.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
To me, Aaron Rodgers is egregious.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
But what that tells me, Martin is that it's not
just I think that's most of it, what you're doing
this season, But it's not just what you're doing this season,
you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Yeah, that's why to me?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, of course, I mean Rock Party probably had a
better seasoned individual season than Mahomes, right, statistically, certainly did
regular season, right, But I still never thought Rock Perdy
was better than Patrick Mahons or really in his class,
you see what I'm saying. So I still don't think
that's an excuse. I get it, it is somewhat understandable,
(11:00):
but I still think even at that.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Time Mahomes should have been number one.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Yeah no, but again having them in the top five
is still really you know, I can't get Aaron Rodgers
being ninety two after playing ninety two.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
We're talking about on Holmes, you gonna have a hissy
fit over ninety two.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
No, but it just shows Stut.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
This shows me something that you know, the guy and
Philiggan for Rob Parker has said for the longest time,
and I'm sure you've said it in various ways as well.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
Current players are.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Oftentimes not the best evaluators of what's going on in
the league.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
They're more focused on what they have going on.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
They're more focused on beating their opponent on Monday or
Thursday or Sunday or whatever. That's what they're focused on,
not necessarily a holistic view of the league entirely.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Well, I'm gonna be honest, Martin, and I bet you
agree with me.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Look, if all and I think they get like a
thousand players at this point, I'm not sure if they
only do in the top twenty, are you I'm sure
one hundred players get named, maybe because obviously there's so
many different positions, right, and players at different positions may
be naming, you know, more guys that they face at
(12:11):
their position.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
But you know what I'm saying, Like, I I.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Think it's very possible that one hundred guys don't get named,
that maybe only seventy four got named or fewer than that.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
I think it's it's definitely reasonable to think. But I
know this. I saw.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I was lucky enough to see a submission to this
list right when one of the players got a connection.
I saw what he put in there, and he had,
like justin Mattobuke at seven, the defensive tackle for the Ravens,
he had Brock Party, I think at three at the time.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
What this is, Hey, this is a guy that Brock Party. Yes,
whose ballot you saw? Yes, he had Brock Purty is
No it was Brock's ballot.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
No no, no, no, no, no, no no no, it wasn't
brocks Battle. I like Brock, y'all know, I'm a Brock fan,
but it wasn't Brock's balllet. It was a guy who
plays in the AFC right now, So I'll just but
that was what I saw at this and I was like, oh, well,
these results are ridiculous. Like, okay, Fred Warner at eight,
I like it, but like you know, we're really saying that, Yeah,
(13:13):
they're all over the place when they're viewing this type
of stuff. So you know, you know, if you looked
at his position that he played, and then the top
ten list that he compiled, it had an outside number
of players at his position, right, So it's like, all right, well,
maybe some of you guys are taking this the most seriously.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Maybe some, But I.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Mean I understand why people would say, how could you
not vote Mahomes number one? But after the year he
had last year, I just can't get too worked up
about it. But to me voting Aaron Rodgers the top
one hundred player last year after four plays.
Speaker 7 (13:43):
Well.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, I mean he clearly wasn't last year, and to
be honest, you could argue he wasn't even his last
year in Green Bay.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Hey it's me Rob Parker.
Speaker 8 (14:07):
Check out my weekly MLB podcast, Inside the Parker for
twenty two minutes of piping hot baseball talk, featuring the
biggest names of newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe
in analytics or the I test, We've got all the
bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday, So do yourself
a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob
(14:29):
Parker on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Our next guest, former All NBA guard a member of
the Redeemed Team in two thousand and eight, which, as
it's titled, brought redemption to American basketball, the Great Michael
Red Mike, what's up, brother, my.
Speaker 7 (14:53):
Brother, the Great Christopher. Thank you for having me. Many
awesome to have.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
It is awesome to have y'all. Hope there, family and
everybody as well.
Speaker 7 (15:04):
Man, everybody who's listening. Me and Chris go back, I
don't know, twenty something years, twenty five years.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Wow.
Speaker 7 (15:11):
Yeah, So it's all in the great reunion when we ever,
when we ever talk, to get together.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Absolutely, brother, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So Look, we're not gonna start with any softballs.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
We were just talking.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
We were just starting to show by talking about Draymond
Green said this twenty twenty four team would wipe out
the Dream Team, the ninety two team. He basically said,
they will win five out of seven games and.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
They beat them by double figures or average.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So what are your thoughts about that? And you can
be objective, obviously you weren't on either.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Of those teams.
Speaker 7 (15:48):
Sure, sure, who knows Chris. At the end of the day.
I think these always fun discussions to have, you know,
I try to be actives in these discussions. Although I'm
a product of the nineties, you know basketball era and
saw all those guys up in close every single game
(16:09):
as a kid, my heart would obviously go with ninety two.
If you had to compare for this team right here
is absolutely loaded top to bottom. There's no weaknesses on
either team. You will probably have eleven and twelve Hall
of Famers in this team as well. It's all set.
He's done. So that dream team had eleven, So okay,
(16:32):
you take Christian Latner out, the twenty twenty fourteen will
probably have more. But my heart would say the nineteen
ninety two teams.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
So let me ask you this because I was saying
one and you can.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
You know, there's advantages for each team.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
One of the advantages I think ninety two would have
is that back then in the nineties, NBA players and
American players in general, they played five man basketball, whereas
nowadays guys grow up playing one or two man you know,
high pick and roll, spread the floor basketball.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And you didn't play in the nineties, like you said,
but you play.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You came into the league in the early two thousands
or in two thousand, I believe, and you know, so
you at that time, I think teams still played more
team basketball than just it being and everybody's touching the ball,
the ball's moving.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Do you what is the difference? I mean, am I right?
Speaker 7 (17:31):
Guy?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I'm sure I would imagine growing up you definitely were
playing more five man basketball, moving without the ball, setting
the screens, even if you're a star and things like that.
How much I think that would be an advantage because
I think the teams that play that way now, Denver,
Golden State a few years ago, they they play they
do well in the NBA, and.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
So how different is that?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And I don't know if you were in the league,
do you remember a time when you felt it switched
to more high pick and roll, more one and two
man ball or was that after you were done?
Speaker 7 (18:08):
I think after I was done in the last ten
twelve years. You know, it's interesting, you know, you asked
me who will win between ninety two and twenty twenty four.
I would pick two thousand and eight that I will
say this, Curtis, to your point, the dynamic was different
(18:28):
in the eighties and nineties because you had guys that
stayed in school longer. You had three year four year
players in college coming to the NBA compared to one
and done right. It's a different dynamic compared to then
and now. So MJ your magics, Karl Maloane's, Barkley's, they
were in school on average probably three to four years,
(18:49):
you know, compared to this generation now who's in school
for once one year and they're out right. So there's
a lot of acumen that you gain in college, and
there's a lot of things you learned in college that
helps you from a fundamental standpoint, you know, And I
think that was the thing that that was a differentiator
there in the nineties compared to now. But the talent
(19:11):
is so immense now, so the talent can almost override,
you know, your time in school. So it's a it's
a hard discussion, but I think that's one of the dynamics,
you know, from when I zoom out, I say that
ninety two team had had guys who were in college longer,
coached by great coaches the Body Knights and Dean Smiths,
the coach King and owner, on and on. They had
(19:33):
that level of acumen coming into the game, which was a.
It was a different game back then.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Now, Mike, you obviously were on the twenty eighteen to
win a gold medal.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
I'm sure that there was.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
How much pressure did you feel throughout that process on
the way to winning a gold medal being no dubbed
the redeemed team, And how much did that pressure do
you think is still felt by the United States because
Olympic basketball is weird where winning is simply not enough.
But if you beat South to Dan by one point
in an exhibition game, it's almost like, you know, we're
treating like an international incident.
Speaker 7 (20:06):
Yeah, that ninety two team Martin, to your point, really
started something internationally. Kids from all around the world begin
to gravitate the basketball, and I think you have to
credit the ninety two team for that in large part. Yeah,
it's a different it's a different game. Obviously, you have
more international players in the NBA now compared to back then.
(20:30):
In our process, we never took a team for granted.
Obviously we were challenging that gold medal game against Spain,
who had I think five to six NBA players in
our team itself. So we understood that that that there
was a paradigm shift in basketball globally. I mean, you
look at now some of the top players in the
world are from Europe, sure and so so so that's
(20:52):
a dynamic that we've never seen before because the best
players of the martist come from America. So so so now
you have you know, sixty sixty plus NBA players on
these teams now, and that you can't take a team
for granted at all. You have to come out and
play and prepare. The One thing that I appreciate about
my experience, and I'll say this Jerry Colangelo for this,
(21:12):
we got together for three years before we got to
that Olympics. We had a three to four year process
that was so beneficial for us. We developed a cohesion,
we had chemistry. Everyone was bought in, a lot of dinners,
a lot of time to get a lot of practices,
and so we spent time together before we ever got
(21:33):
to that Gold Metal game. And I think that served
Tod as well.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
How tough was it, because like most of these great
USA teams, everybody's a superstar. How tough is it to adjust,
you know, to win on a team like that. Maybe
your role is to be a role player. You used
to getting twenty five a night and your role on
this team is to be a role player. How tough
(22:01):
of an adjustment is that for guys, not just mentally,
but actually almost like muscle memory, like, you know, playing
a different way than you're used.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
To, totally less touches. Uh, you know what people are talking about.
Step Curry struggles so far, but like less touches, less minutes.
The office is not centered around you. It's a different
dynamic and you gotta you gotta, you gotta get in,
be efficient when you get in and get out, you
know type of thing. And so it's a different dynamic
(22:31):
than your own team. And I remember, uh, back in
eight when I didn't play as much, you know, on
that team, I was getting calls from the parents, why
aren't you not playing? I said, do you realize where
I'm at right now? I'm one of the best players
in the world, And I'm curing that even though I'm
not playing, I'm obviously one of the best player in
(22:52):
the world. I'm here. So I'm at the Olympics and
we got a chance to want to go medal. Who's complaining?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Right?
Speaker 7 (22:57):
And you go into it. You go into it with
the fine expectation that everybody's not gonna be able to
play their minutes. Everyone has a specific role, and Chris,
I tell you it's Martin. To this day, no one
comes up to me and never says to me, man,
who is the league of scorer on that team? Right? Bro?
Who who's the league rebound on that team? Who who's
the leading insistcott team? No one cares. They always tell me,
(23:20):
thank you so much for representing your country and winning
the gold medal. Will never forget it. Uh, Mike, take
go ahead, Yeah, I got when you so when you
zoom out, you know, history will history will just know
you as Aleptic gold champion.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Uh Mike.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I wanted to ask you though, because you said, these
conversations obviously are happening from the head the coaching staff,
and probably a lot of them. The head coach Mike
Kruesski at the time, who was a college coach historically
coaching at Duke. Steve Kerr now is an NBA coach.
Do you think that conversation is a little different from
a guy who you're competing against in your regular you know,
regular day job. For lack of amitted term, day in,
(23:58):
day out, playoffs in play us out for guys who
are actively on NBA rosters, so because it feels to
me like it'd be a little bit easier for a
guy like Coach K to shit you down because he's
not going to see you until the next time you
guys play for international ball.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
You know, I never thought about that. It's interesting because
Coach K probably didn't have a dog in a fight,
right right, And I think I think I think coach
Coach Curves done a great job because you would think
Steph would be highlighted more probably, but he's been been objective,
you know, And I'm sure Steve has had those conversations
(24:33):
with the guys, and I think each guy has to
go through the situation, which I'm sure they have ego
list even though you have an ego, and you have
to have an ego, you've got to go into the
situation knowing that this is bigger than you. And I
think that's the one thing that Coach K, I know,
will you share with us that this is a bigger
moment than just you being able to be to the
(24:53):
scoring and be the top dog and the man, you know,
being able to sacrifice. And I think this team has
done an incredible job so far because all of them
are accomplished, all of them, and to be professional in
the spot of not playing and all that to speak
sportings to their character. It's not an indictment on their game.
It's just you're on a stacked teaching the best team
(25:16):
in the world, so you have to have that perspective.
I'm sure Steve Perr and the coach Estaffage done an
incredible job. Coach Bolstra, coach lou On down the list,
I'm sure they're in the guy's ears constantly.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Michael Red, great stuff as always, brother, Thank you man.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
We appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
Appreciate you guys, Thank you Chris always, and Martin, thank
you sir.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
All right brother peace.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Let's get right into it, Martin weiss Eliman. Now, of course,
this weekend they inducted the new Hall of Fame class
of twenty twenty four and spectacular well. The class of
twenty twenty five, of course, is next year, and one
of the biggest names in that class, of course, is
(26:11):
Eli Manning and the question is Martin and Rob and
I have talked about this a lot.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
On this show.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
We had Rob Woodson, the great, one of the greatest
defensive backs ever, to say that Eli Manning is not
a Hall of Famer, So there is some debate on him.
Where do you stand on it with Eli as far
as him being a Hall of Famer?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
If you had asked me the year after he retired,
I would have said absolutely not. However, as I've thought
about it, put some seasoning on it and put it
in the oven. I go back to like when I
forget who was the first person I heard say it?
But it's not an unpopular phrase. If you can't if
you can tell the story of whatever sport without said
(27:01):
athlete involved in that story, they're probably not a Hall
of Famer.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
That's ridiculous. If you well, I mean, if you could
tell a little much.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
If you can tell I can tell the story of
basketball without talking about Damian Lillard.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
Well, I mean the Basketball Hall of Fame has a
ton of people.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Okay, let's say football. Lillard though in any by any measure,
would be a Hall of Famer Football.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I can tell the story of football the NFL without
talking about uh who I mean, I'm just trying to
think of a guy Rob g jump In, Martin jump In.
You know there's a guy you can tell the story
(27:48):
of football. Andre Johnson just got ink he ain't getting
He ain't in my story about the NFL. No, no
slight on Andre, sure, but you know what I'm saying.
So I'm just I'm not I know that's you ain't
come up with that saying. So I'm not jumping on you,
but I'm just saying that I agree with I.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Mean, Andre Johnson too.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
About to say that, but he ain't getting in the
story of football.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
But you know, yeah, but of the game.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
But the thing is, though, Chris, if in fact that
is your margin of in or out, you can't tell
the story of NFL football without Eli Manning because you're
telling the story of Tom Brady who failed him twice.
That's Eli Manning in the biggest moment, in the biggest game, right.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
So when you're talking about him in that manner and.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
He was crazy hot through those playoff runs and the
Hall of Fame. There are people who have Hall of
Fame careers and there are people that have Hall of
Fame moments inside of careers that are good enough for
them to be able to maintain those Hall of Fame moments.
That Eli Manning to me falls into the second category.
(28:55):
I think I have come to the resignation that he
will get in, and so that's why. But you can't
tell the story of the NFL Super Bowl history without
mentioning Eli Manning, And for that reason, I think he's
got to qualify.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Can you tell the story without mentioning David Tyree?
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yeah, but again, David Tyree didn't have the NFL career
that like. But but you still criterias.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
You can't tell the story, That's what I'm saying, Like
that's bogus, But that criteria you still have, I can't
tell without David Tyree.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
You still have to be on a baseline.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Like, at the end of the day, was a starting
quarterback in the NFL for over ten years.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
It's not like he was just out there.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
That's a pretty low baseline.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
But I'm just I just don't have the number on
top I have it.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I know he played ten, probably fifteen years he played
as a starting quarter play he played I think at
least fifteen it never barely ever missed a game, you know,
had the starting street like, he's tough as nails. So
all of these things play into the ability like after
the fact, right, like if David Tyree had been to
the NFL for fifteen years and had that same helmet
catch having a different conversation about him too.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Overall, even though I just demolished your criteria, I do
tend to agree with you that Eli Manny is a
Hall of Famer.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
He was.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
He had two remarkable playoff runs. Two remarkable playoff runs.
He was only a four time a Pro bowler. He
never was at All Pro ever, not second team. I mean,
I don't even know if they have second team all
his years, but he never made All Pro.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
He's a five hundred quarterback for his career.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
However, because he did play fifteen seasons, he is in
the top ten in passing touchdowns.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
And in passing yards.
Speaker 7 (30:58):
Now.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Don't know how long that'll last because obviously guys are
throwing light yards now right I'm looking at passing yards career.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Right now, Eli is.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Tenth, okay, and Matthew Stafford's gonna passing this season, but
he is tenth right now, and he's got He's only
two thousand behind Aaron Rodgers. So there there you have that.
Passing touchdowns.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
ELI is.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Tenth in passing touchdowns too. Again, Matthew Stafford should passing
Russell Wilson.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
I mean, he'd have to have a really good year.
Russell Wilson's thirty two behind Eli.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
However, look, he retired Martin in the top ten in
passing touchdowns and yards. He's got two tremendous runs to
the Super Bowl that ended in victory.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
He beat the eighteen and oh New England Patriots.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
That I mean, everybody thought they were gonna win that
game and they would have gone down as the greatest
team ever. And then he beat the Patriots again. So
he beat Brady twice. And it is true that his
regular season career, let's just keep I mean, he's five
hundred quarterback. It was I wouldn't say mediocre, but it
(32:27):
was like good but not great, not Hall of Fame worthy.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
But when you factor in.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
The two championships, and look, I'm not saying this, I'm
not saying just because you win two Super Bowls you
are in the Hall of Fame. Jim Plunkett won two
Super Bowls and never made it.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It is not a Hall of Famer. But yet he
didn't have as.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Good of a career as Eli manh And ironically his
record in the regular season was five hundred as well,
but he never made a Pro Bowl. Even so, he
was not quite what Eli Manning was. And I'm gonna
throw this into as a factor Martin, the.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Fact that Eli played New York.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
And I'm not saying that should be a factor in
terms of voters looking at that and saying, you know what,
he played New York, let's put him in unless that
gives him a few extra points. No, I'm saying during
the time when he was winning Super Bowls and in
the celebration, the post celebration, and even the years following,
(33:35):
everything in done in New York is magnified. Everything, right,
you win in New York, it's magnified, and it seems
better than ever. You lose in New York, it's magnified.
It seems like the worst thing we've ever seen.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
I mean, to your point, if you pulled who has
the worst contract in the NFL, I think a lot
of people say Daniel Jones. Yeah, and it's not forty million,
like it's it's not the worst quarterback contract out there,
but a lot of people will say.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
So Isaiah Thomas the GM, A lot of people think
he was the worst GM in the history of league.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
He wasn't.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I mean, his draft red was actually really good, but
because it was in New York and it didn't work out.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
It you know, was magnified. And so I do think
that's a factor.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
I mean, if Eli Manning Martin does what he did
playing for this Seattle Seahawks, is it is he a
Hall of Famer. I think that's a fair question. I'm
not saying he definitely wouldn't be, but I definitely think
he gets a booste for doing it in New York.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
I think so too.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Also, he also gets a booshe for being a Manning,
right when you consider that Peyte like, you know, he
gets a little bit of a boos from that that
he comes from quote unquote good stock, right in terms
of good quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
But yeah, I just he run. I mean, his super
let's put it, let's face it. And it's interesting Martin
because when we think of Peyton, I mean, Peyton.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Obviously is one of the best quarterbacks we've ever seen,
like one of the top five.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Right when we talk about him and think about him
as a two time super Bowl champion.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
We really like, I don't hear people be littling.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
I never hear it. Yeah, but the second one, I mean,
you might hear it, but it doesn't seem to stick.
Are you with me on that?
Speaker 5 (35:30):
Like, I think we just think of Peyton.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
As a two time super Bowl champion, regardless how poorly
he played that last season they won.
Speaker 7 (35:37):
Well.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Part of the reason why it doesn't stick, like criticism
of that second of that Denver super Bowl wouldn't stick
in the same way is a he didn't even win
the MVP of that game.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
But also he.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Had an incredible Like if he never went to that
super Bowl, he would still be in the Hall of Fame, Right,
if he never went to that football he would still
be considered in the Hall of Fame because what was
his biggest problem not being able to beat Tom Brady,
which is true of almost everybody who played in the
AFC the entire time he was there. Right, it's true
for everybody that you know. It's like saying, oh, you know, well,
(36:12):
Caarl Malone never won a championship. For John Stockon never
won a championship, Well, that's because they were playing against
Michael Jordan. He wasn't really giving him out right. So
when that's part of the reason why I think it
makes the argument for Eli to be in because when
you look at why do people not you know, because
the career that Peyton had kept bumping his head against
tom Well, Eli didn't have hell of them. I mean
(36:34):
even closer to the regular season career that Peyton man
he had. But when you go up into the biggest moments,
he had some big time Hall of Fame moments that
throw them manning him, Like you said, to catch the
tyree catch. Those things are are in are just burned
into NFL history.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
Couple at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us
live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brushaw and Ron Harker.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
We were on the air when it was announced, correct
me if I'm wrong Martin when it was announced, though,
I think yeah, we were on the air if I
remember correctly, when it was announced that Patrick Mahomes came
in fourth place in the NFL one hundred list that
was voted on by the players. Third place was Christian McCaffrey,
(00:53):
the running back for the San Francisco forty nine ers.
Second place Lamar Jackson, who won the MVP for the
Baltimore Ravens, obviously at quarterback.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
In first place the wide receiver. First wide receiver ever.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
To be number one since they started this poll in
two thousand and eleven, Tyreek Hill of the Miami Dolphins.
The focus though Patrick Mahomes being fourth.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
What are your thoughts on that, Martin.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
All Right, is Patrick Mahomes the fourth best player in football? No,
he is the first best player in football. We I
think most of us can come to agreement with that.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
Now.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Him being ranked fourth after last year, though, is not
some grave injustice that I feel like I must champion
hip from on high. Right, I understand, like you know
your TV partner, he's got the every single slight thatever
is real or.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
Imaginable to Patrick Mahomes he puts on a board. I
get that lot of.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Them coming for a three time champion in six years.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
But go ahead, but this to me is not one
when you really well with a flight when you do
this voting, right, Rob g told me the voting for
the top one hundred occurred in the midst of Week fourteen.
If you go back to where week fourteen in your brain,
that is the season in which Patrick Mahomes has thrown
(02:17):
what the most interceptions he had thrown?
Speaker 5 (02:20):
He hasn't, like I mean.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Here barely threw four over four hundred yards, second lowest
marking yards and second lowest marketing touchdowns that he had
in his career with twenty seven and a career high
fourteen interceptions.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Right, Was that all on him?
Speaker 4 (02:33):
No, I won't blame all of that on him, but
that's still was the resume you were voting against. When
you look at this, If you go back to the
NBP odds in week fourteen, Christian McCaffrey, Lamar Jackson, and
Tyreek Hill were all in the top six. Patrick Mahomes
was nowhere to be found at that moment in time, right,
(02:53):
So when you look at this, to me, it is
more of a function of when the voting occurred as
opposed to some big slight Because if they had done it.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
After the Super Bowl, for example, I think that.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Everyone would have had Patrick Mahomes listed as number one,
and he may have been the first unanimous overall number
one pick. I know how they do these lists. They
poll guys and they have the players that do they
fill their top twenty, right, and then they rank, Okay,
who got the most first place votes, who got the
most second place and so on to build out the list.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
There's so many more egregious things.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
On this lift than Mahomes being not one instead of
being four that those things have me much more fired up.
If he was eighth or ninth, I'd be fired about
that too. But when you look at the three guys
in front of them and the year they had at
the time to the voting, I can't fault. I really
can't get too worked up about it.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Well, you said it.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
As far as the timing, it is understandable when you
understand and I don't know that it was week fourteen.
The article I read in GQ said it was somewhere
between Thanksgiving and New Years. But if you look at
the month of December, the Chansaity Chiefs were two and three.
(04:08):
Patrick Mahomes had I believe, six touchdowns and five interceptions,
and we all know he wasn't having He didn't have
his best year for the whole year, had his worst
year of his career. That wasn't a terrible year, but
by his standards, it was subparte.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
It was his worse of the year.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And you are right if you go going into December,
Tyreek Hill had seven one hundred plus yard receiving games.
He was averaging one hundred and twenty receiving yards per
game at that point I think was still on track
(04:47):
or close to it, of breaking the all time receiving
record and maybe getting two thousand yards receiving, which has
never been done. And then in the month of December,
kill had December and on so December and January, Tyree
Gill had one one hundred or more yard receiving game
(05:08):
period the rest of the year. So I agree with
you and Lamar and McCaffrey at that point in December,
if you will, were looking like the front runners for MVP.
So it is understandable. But here's where I want to
take this, Martin. Even as we all watched and even
as Patrick Mahomes was not having a great year by
(05:32):
his standards, and we know a lot of that had
to do with, you know, guys dropping footballs, And I
mean he had the most drops in the league from
his receivers. And Kelsey looked old until the playoffs start,
so Kelsey wasn't having a great year either. But even
as that was going on, Martin, and even as several
(05:53):
quarterbacks were playing better than Mahomes, I still viewed him
as the best in the world, as the best quarterback
and best football.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Player, best player in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And so what I want to ask you, So, if
I were voting at that time, I still would have
had Patrick.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Mahomes number one.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Uh, He's still at that point had two Super Bowls championships,
he still had two MVPs. He had done enough where
I think most people, not all, but most people, like
now virtually everybody recognizes him as the best quarterback in
the world. At that time, I would say seventy five
(06:44):
percent of pundits maybe that we see on TV would
have had Mahomes number one.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
And maybe maybe I'm underestimating it.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
But questioning it, but you think at that point some
people thought Josh or Burrow not a lot, but we
gots you think Joe was hurt By that point, I
think Josh Allen.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Would have been the only person who you would have
found credible sources TV talking ads throwing in that conversation.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
Honestly.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Okay, So the question I want to ask you is
does the best player, like if he's clearly the best,
whether it was a Michael Jordan, a Lebron James, now
it's you know, Patrick Mahomes, do they have to be
having the best individual season for you to recognize them
(07:34):
as the best, Like most of these guys, I think, honestly,
two to five and maybe two to six is up
in the air right now. It could be Lamar. It
could be Burrow. I'm talking about quarterbacks. It could be
Josh Allen and maybe I'm not sure yet, but we'll see.
Maybe it could be CJ. Strout right. But that's gonna
(07:56):
fluctuate year to year. To me, Number one, ain't fluctuating
for the next I might be being generous and saying five
years or let's say.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Three years, really generous. I'd locked in three for sure.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Let's say three for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And so that's what I want to ask you, Like,
like Lebron didn't have to win the championship every year.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
You know that he was the best player.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
For us to recognize he's still the best player in
the world.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
But Chris during that time period when Lebron James was
basically hosting the Eastern Conference Invitational, right when he was
the best player in the NBA, and there was all
these teams going and bumping their heads against whether it
be Cleveland or Miami, as he was going to represent
one half of the NBA in the finals for damn
near a decade. He didn't win the MVP every year.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
He didn't, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
So, like, no, like we can still agree that off
the entire track record of your career. Where you rank
of the all time? Are you know saying where you
reckon up the whole league? Maybe different? And where you
ranking individual seasons? Right, we've established this is already true.
Tom Brady was the best quarterback for at minimal, at minimum,
(09:08):
Tom Brady was the best quarterback for ten of his
twenty three years. And and you know he was only
first team All Pro three times. Exactly my point, exactly
my point. We're after it was all said and done,
did we sit back and be like, oh man, how
did this guy win first Team All Pro?
Speaker 5 (09:26):
When Tom Brady? Is this that the third like? No,
like after a while, these.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Roties awards they changed, they move around, but this is
specifically based off a year to year basis.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, but that see the point you're making I agree with.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And that's why I still think even at that time,
while it's somewhat understandable, I think they should have still
had Mahomes number one.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
And I think it.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Is rather egregious that he's not because Aaron Rodgers didn't
play a snap, well what no play four snaps and
was ninety two.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Joe her missed seven.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Games and in half of the ten he played, he
didn't play well, and I'm being generous there. It might
have been six or seven of the ten he played
didn't play well.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
He still was thirty ninth.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
But at least what Burrow you can say he walked
into Levi Stadium and beat the forty nine ers.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
To me, Aaron Rodgers is egregious.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
But what that tells me, Martin is that it's not
just I think that's most of it, what you're doing
this season, But it's not just what you're doing this season,
you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Yeah, that's why to me?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, of course, I mean Rock Party probably had a
better seasoned individual season than Mahomes, right, statistically, certainly did
regular season, right, But I still never thought Rock Perdy
was better than Patrick Mahons or really in his class,
you see what I'm saying. So I still don't think
that's an excuse. I get it, it is somewhat understandable,
(11:00):
but I still think even at that.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Time Mahomes should have been number one.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Yeah no, but again having them in the top five
is still really you know, I can't get Aaron Rodgers
being ninety two after playing ninety two.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
We're talking about on Holmes, you gonna have a hissy
fit over ninety two.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
No, but it just shows Stut.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
This shows me something that you know, the guy and
Philiggan for Rob Parker has said for the longest time,
and I'm sure you've said it in various ways as well.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
Current players are.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Oftentimes not the best evaluators of what's going on in
the league.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
They're more focused on what they have going on.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
They're more focused on beating their opponent on Monday or
Thursday or Sunday or whatever. That's what they're focused on,
not necessarily a holistic view of the league entirely.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Well, I'm gonna be honest, Martin, and I bet you
agree with me.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Look, if all and I think they get like a
thousand players at this point, I'm not sure if they
only do in the top twenty, are you I'm sure
one hundred players get named, maybe because obviously there's so
many different positions, right, and players at different positions may
be naming, you know, more guys that they face at
(12:11):
their position.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
But you know what I'm saying, Like, I I.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Think it's very possible that one hundred guys don't get named,
that maybe only seventy four got named or fewer than that.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
I think it's it's definitely reasonable to think. But I
know this. I saw.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I was lucky enough to see a submission to this
list right when one of the players got a connection.
I saw what he put in there, and he had,
like justin Mattobuke at seven, the defensive tackle for the Ravens,
he had Brock Party, I think at three at the time.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
What this is, Hey, this is a guy that Brock Party. Yes,
whose ballot you saw? Yes, he had Brock Purty is
No it was Brock's ballot.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
No no, no, no, no, no, no no no, it wasn't
brocks Battle. I like Brock, y'all know, I'm a Brock fan,
but it wasn't Brock's balllet. It was a guy who
plays in the AFC right now, So I'll just but
that was what I saw at this and I was like, oh, well,
these results are ridiculous. Like, okay, Fred Warner at eight,
I like it, but like you know, we're really saying that, Yeah,
(13:13):
they're all over the place when they're viewing this type
of stuff. So you know, you know, if you looked
at his position that he played, and then the top
ten list that he compiled, it had an outside number
of players at his position, right, So it's like, all right, well,
maybe some of you guys are taking this the most seriously.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Maybe some, But I.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Mean I understand why people would say, how could you
not vote Mahomes number one? But after the year he
had last year, I just can't get too worked up
about it. But to me voting Aaron Rodgers the top
one hundred player last year after four plays.
Speaker 7 (13:43):
Well.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, I mean he clearly wasn't last year, and to
be honest, you could argue he wasn't even his last
year in Green Bay.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Hey it's me Rob Parker.
Speaker 8 (14:07):
Check out my weekly MLB podcast, Inside the Parker for
twenty two minutes of piping hot baseball talk, featuring the
biggest names of newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe
in analytics or the I test, We've got all the
bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday, So do yourself
a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob
(14:29):
Parker on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Our next guest, former All NBA guard a member of
the Redeemed Team in two thousand and eight, which, as
it's titled, brought redemption to American basketball, the Great Michael
Red Mike, what's up, brother, my.
Speaker 7 (14:53):
Brother, the Great Christopher. Thank you for having me. Many
awesome to have.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
It is awesome to have y'all. Hope there, family and
everybody as well.
Speaker 7 (15:04):
Man, everybody who's listening. Me and Chris go back, I
don't know, twenty something years, twenty five years.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Wow.
Speaker 7 (15:11):
Yeah, So it's all in the great reunion when we ever,
when we ever talk, to get together.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Absolutely, brother, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So Look, we're not gonna start with any softballs.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
We were just talking.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
We were just starting to show by talking about Draymond
Green said this twenty twenty four team would wipe out
the Dream Team, the ninety two team. He basically said,
they will win five out of seven games and.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
They beat them by double figures or average.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So what are your thoughts about that? And you can
be objective, obviously you weren't on either.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Of those teams.
Speaker 7 (15:48):
Sure, sure, who knows Chris. At the end of the day.
I think these always fun discussions to have, you know,
I try to be actives in these discussions. Although I'm
a product of the nineties, you know basketball era and
saw all those guys up in close every single game
(16:09):
as a kid, my heart would obviously go with ninety two.
If you had to compare for this team right here
is absolutely loaded top to bottom. There's no weaknesses on
either team. You will probably have eleven and twelve Hall
of Famers in this team as well. It's all set.
He's done. So that dream team had eleven, So okay,
(16:32):
you take Christian Latner out, the twenty twenty fourteen will
probably have more. But my heart would say the nineteen
ninety two teams.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
So let me ask you this because I was saying
one and you can.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
You know, there's advantages for each team.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
One of the advantages I think ninety two would have
is that back then in the nineties, NBA players and
American players in general, they played five man basketball, whereas
nowadays guys grow up playing one or two man you know,
high pick and roll, spread the floor basketball.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And you didn't play in the nineties, like you said,
but you play.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You came into the league in the early two thousands
or in two thousand, I believe, and you know, so
you at that time, I think teams still played more
team basketball than just it being and everybody's touching the ball,
the ball's moving.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Do you what is the difference? I mean, am I right?
Speaker 7 (17:31):
Guy?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I'm sure I would imagine growing up you definitely were
playing more five man basketball, moving without the ball, setting
the screens, even if you're a star and things like that.
How much I think that would be an advantage because
I think the teams that play that way now, Denver,
Golden State a few years ago, they they play they
do well in the NBA, and.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
So how different is that?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And I don't know if you were in the league,
do you remember a time when you felt it switched
to more high pick and roll, more one and two
man ball or was that after you were done?
Speaker 7 (18:08):
I think after I was done in the last ten
twelve years. You know, it's interesting, you know, you asked
me who will win between ninety two and twenty twenty four.
I would pick two thousand and eight that I will
say this, Curtis, to your point, the dynamic was different
(18:28):
in the eighties and nineties because you had guys that
stayed in school longer. You had three year four year
players in college coming to the NBA compared to one
and done right. It's a different dynamic compared to then
and now. So MJ your magics, Karl Maloane's, Barkley's, they
were in school on average probably three to four years,
(18:49):
you know, compared to this generation now who's in school
for once one year and they're out right. So there's
a lot of acumen that you gain in college, and
there's a lot of things you learned in college that
helps you from a fundamental standpoint, you know, And I
think that was the thing that that was a differentiator
there in the nineties compared to now. But the talent
(19:11):
is so immense now, so the talent can almost override,
you know, your time in school. So it's a it's
a hard discussion, but I think that's one of the dynamics,
you know, from when I zoom out, I say that
ninety two team had had guys who were in college longer,
coached by great coaches the Body Knights and Dean Smiths,
the coach King and owner, on and on. They had
(19:33):
that level of acumen coming into the game, which was a.
It was a different game back then.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Now, Mike, you obviously were on the twenty eighteen to
win a gold medal.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
I'm sure that there was.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
How much pressure did you feel throughout that process on
the way to winning a gold medal being no dubbed
the redeemed team, And how much did that pressure do
you think is still felt by the United States because
Olympic basketball is weird where winning is simply not enough.
But if you beat South to Dan by one point
in an exhibition game, it's almost like, you know, we're
treating like an international incident.
Speaker 7 (20:06):
Yeah, that ninety two team Martin, to your point, really
started something internationally. Kids from all around the world begin
to gravitate the basketball, and I think you have to
credit the ninety two team for that in large part. Yeah,
it's a different it's a different game. Obviously, you have
more international players in the NBA now compared to back then.
(20:30):
In our process, we never took a team for granted.
Obviously we were challenging that gold medal game against Spain,
who had I think five to six NBA players in
our team itself. So we understood that that that there
was a paradigm shift in basketball globally. I mean, you
look at now some of the top players in the
world are from Europe, sure and so so so that's
(20:52):
a dynamic that we've never seen before because the best
players of the martist come from America. So so so now
you have you know, sixty sixty plus NBA players on
these teams now, and that you can't take a team
for granted at all. You have to come out and
play and prepare. The One thing that I appreciate about
my experience, and I'll say this Jerry Colangelo for this,
(21:12):
we got together for three years before we got to
that Olympics. We had a three to four year process
that was so beneficial for us. We developed a cohesion,
we had chemistry. Everyone was bought in, a lot of dinners,
a lot of time to get a lot of practices,
and so we spent time together before we ever got
(21:33):
to that Gold Metal game. And I think that served
Tod as well.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
How tough was it, because like most of these great
USA teams, everybody's a superstar. How tough is it to adjust,
you know, to win on a team like that. Maybe
your role is to be a role player. You used
to getting twenty five a night and your role on
this team is to be a role player. How tough
(22:01):
of an adjustment is that for guys, not just mentally,
but actually almost like muscle memory, like, you know, playing
a different way than you're used.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
To, totally less touches. Uh, you know what people are talking about.
Step Curry struggles so far, but like less touches, less minutes.
The office is not centered around you. It's a different
dynamic and you gotta you gotta, you gotta get in,
be efficient when you get in and get out, you
know type of thing. And so it's a different dynamic
(22:31):
than your own team. And I remember, uh, back in
eight when I didn't play as much, you know, on
that team, I was getting calls from the parents, why
aren't you not playing? I said, do you realize where
I'm at right now? I'm one of the best players
in the world, And I'm curing that even though I'm
not playing, I'm obviously one of the best player in
(22:52):
the world. I'm here. So I'm at the Olympics and
we got a chance to want to go medal. Who's complaining?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Right?
Speaker 7 (22:57):
And you go into it. You go into it with
the fine expectation that everybody's not gonna be able to
play their minutes. Everyone has a specific role, and Chris,
I tell you it's Martin. To this day, no one
comes up to me and never says to me, man,
who is the league of scorer on that team? Right? Bro?
Who who's the league rebound on that team? Who who's
the leading insistcott team? No one cares. They always tell me,
(23:20):
thank you so much for representing your country and winning
the gold medal. Will never forget it. Uh, Mike, take
go ahead, Yeah, I got when you so when you
zoom out, you know, history will history will just know
you as Aleptic gold champion.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Uh Mike.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I wanted to ask you though, because you said, these
conversations obviously are happening from the head the coaching staff,
and probably a lot of them. The head coach Mike
Kruesski at the time, who was a college coach historically
coaching at Duke. Steve Kerr now is an NBA coach.
Do you think that conversation is a little different from
a guy who you're competing against in your regular you know,
regular day job. For lack of amitted term, day in,
(23:58):
day out, playoffs in play us out for guys who
are actively on NBA rosters, so because it feels to
me like it'd be a little bit easier for a
guy like Coach K to shit you down because he's
not going to see you until the next time you
guys play for international ball.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
You know, I never thought about that. It's interesting because
Coach K probably didn't have a dog in a fight,
right right, And I think I think I think coach
Coach Curves done a great job because you would think
Steph would be highlighted more probably, but he's been been objective,
you know, And I'm sure Steve has had those conversations
(24:33):
with the guys, and I think each guy has to
go through the situation, which I'm sure they have ego
list even though you have an ego, and you have
to have an ego, you've got to go into the
situation knowing that this is bigger than you. And I
think that's the one thing that Coach K, I know,
will you share with us that this is a bigger
moment than just you being able to be to the
(24:53):
scoring and be the top dog and the man, you know,
being able to sacrifice. And I think this team has
done an incredible job so far because all of them
are accomplished, all of them, and to be professional in
the spot of not playing and all that to speak
sportings to their character. It's not an indictment on their game.
It's just you're on a stacked teaching the best team
(25:16):
in the world, so you have to have that perspective.
I'm sure Steve Perr and the coach Estaffage done an
incredible job. Coach Bolstra, coach lou On down the list,
I'm sure they're in the guy's ears constantly.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Michael Red, great stuff as always, brother, Thank you man.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
We appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
Appreciate you guys, Thank you Chris always, and Martin, thank
you sir.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
All right brother peace.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Let's get right into it, Martin weiss Eliman. Now, of course,
this weekend they inducted the new Hall of Fame class
of twenty twenty four and spectacular well. The class of
twenty twenty five, of course, is next year, and one
of the biggest names in that class, of course, is
(26:11):
Eli Manning and the question is Martin and Rob and
I have talked about this a lot.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
On this show.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
We had Rob Woodson, the great, one of the greatest
defensive backs ever, to say that Eli Manning is not
a Hall of Famer, So there is some debate on him.
Where do you stand on it with Eli as far
as him being a Hall of Famer?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
If you had asked me the year after he retired,
I would have said absolutely not. However, as I've thought
about it, put some seasoning on it and put it
in the oven. I go back to like when I
forget who was the first person I heard say it?
But it's not an unpopular phrase. If you can't if
you can tell the story of whatever sport without said
(27:01):
athlete involved in that story, they're probably not a Hall
of Famer.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
That's ridiculous. If you well, I mean, if you could
tell a little much.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
If you can tell I can tell the story of
basketball without talking about Damian Lillard.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
Well, I mean the Basketball Hall of Fame has a
ton of people.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Okay, let's say football. Lillard though in any by any measure,
would be a Hall of Famer Football.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I can tell the story of football the NFL without
talking about uh who I mean, I'm just trying to
think of a guy Rob g jump In, Martin jump In.
You know there's a guy you can tell the story
(27:48):
of football. Andre Johnson just got ink he ain't getting
He ain't in my story about the NFL. No, no
slight on Andre, sure, but you know what I'm saying.
So I'm just I'm not I know that's you ain't
come up with that saying. So I'm not jumping on you,
but I'm just saying that I agree with I.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Mean, Andre Johnson too.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
About to say that, but he ain't getting in the
story of football.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
But you know, yeah, but of the game.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
But the thing is, though, Chris, if in fact that
is your margin of in or out, you can't tell
the story of NFL football without Eli Manning because you're
telling the story of Tom Brady who failed him twice.
That's Eli Manning in the biggest moment, in the biggest game, right.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
So when you're talking about him in that manner and.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
He was crazy hot through those playoff runs and the
Hall of Fame. There are people who have Hall of
Fame careers and there are people that have Hall of
Fame moments inside of careers that are good enough for
them to be able to maintain those Hall of Fame moments.
That Eli Manning to me falls into the second category.
(28:55):
I think I have come to the resignation that he
will get in, and so that's why. But you can't
tell the story of the NFL Super Bowl history without
mentioning Eli Manning, And for that reason, I think he's
got to qualify.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Can you tell the story without mentioning David Tyree?
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yeah, but again, David Tyree didn't have the NFL career
that like. But but you still criterias.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
You can't tell the story, That's what I'm saying, Like
that's bogus, But that criteria you still have, I can't
tell without David Tyree.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
You still have to be on a baseline.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Like, at the end of the day, was a starting
quarterback in the NFL for over ten years.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
It's not like he was just out there.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
That's a pretty low baseline.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
But I'm just I just don't have the number on
top I have it.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I know he played ten, probably fifteen years he played
as a starting quarter play he played I think at
least fifteen it never barely ever missed a game, you know,
had the starting street like, he's tough as nails. So
all of these things play into the ability like after
the fact, right, like if David Tyree had been to
the NFL for fifteen years and had that same helmet
catch having a different conversation about him too.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Overall, even though I just demolished your criteria, I do
tend to agree with you that Eli Manny is a
Hall of Famer.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
He was.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
He had two remarkable playoff runs. Two remarkable playoff runs.
He was only a four time a Pro bowler. He
never was at All Pro ever, not second team. I mean,
I don't even know if they have second team all
his years, but he never made All Pro.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
He's a five hundred quarterback for his career.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
However, because he did play fifteen seasons, he is in
the top ten in passing touchdowns.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
And in passing yards.
Speaker 7 (30:58):
Now.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Don't know how long that'll last because obviously guys are
throwing light yards now right I'm looking at passing yards career.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Right now, Eli is.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Tenth, okay, and Matthew Stafford's gonna passing this season, but
he is tenth right now, and he's got He's only
two thousand behind Aaron Rodgers. So there there you have that.
Passing touchdowns.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
ELI is.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Tenth in passing touchdowns too. Again, Matthew Stafford should passing
Russell Wilson.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
I mean, he'd have to have a really good year.
Russell Wilson's thirty two behind Eli.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
However, look, he retired Martin in the top ten in
passing touchdowns and yards. He's got two tremendous runs to
the Super Bowl that ended in victory.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
He beat the eighteen and oh New England Patriots.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
That I mean, everybody thought they were gonna win that
game and they would have gone down as the greatest
team ever. And then he beat the Patriots again. So
he beat Brady twice. And it is true that his
regular season career, let's just keep I mean, he's five
hundred quarterback. It was I wouldn't say mediocre, but it
(32:27):
was like good but not great, not Hall of Fame worthy.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
But when you factor in.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
The two championships, and look, I'm not saying this, I'm
not saying just because you win two Super Bowls you
are in the Hall of Fame. Jim Plunkett won two
Super Bowls and never made it.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It is not a Hall of Famer. But yet he
didn't have as.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Good of a career as Eli manh And ironically his
record in the regular season was five hundred as well,
but he never made a Pro Bowl. Even so, he
was not quite what Eli Manning was. And I'm gonna
throw this into as a factor Martin, the.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Fact that Eli played New York.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
And I'm not saying that should be a factor in
terms of voters looking at that and saying, you know what,
he played New York, let's put him in unless that
gives him a few extra points. No, I'm saying during
the time when he was winning Super Bowls and in
the celebration, the post celebration, and even the years following,
(33:35):
everything in done in New York is magnified. Everything, right,
you win in New York, it's magnified, and it seems
better than ever. You lose in New York, it's magnified.
It seems like the worst thing we've ever seen.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
I mean, to your point, if you pulled who has
the worst contract in the NFL, I think a lot
of people say Daniel Jones. Yeah, and it's not forty million,
like it's it's not the worst quarterback contract out there,
but a lot of people will say.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
So Isaiah Thomas the GM, A lot of people think
he was the worst GM in the history of league.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
He wasn't.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I mean, his draft red was actually really good, but
because it was in New York and it didn't work out.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
It you know, was magnified. And so I do think
that's a factor.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
I mean, if Eli Manning Martin does what he did
playing for this Seattle Seahawks, is it is he a
Hall of Famer. I think that's a fair question. I'm
not saying he definitely wouldn't be, but I definitely think
he gets a booste for doing it in New York.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
I think so too.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Also, he also gets a booshe for being a Manning,
right when you consider that Peyte like, you know, he
gets a little bit of a boos from that that
he comes from quote unquote good stock, right in terms
of good quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
But yeah, I just he run. I mean, his super
let's put it, let's face it. And it's interesting Martin
because when we think of Peyton, I mean, Peyton.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Obviously is one of the best quarterbacks we've ever seen,
like one of the top five.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Right when we talk about him and think about him
as a two time super Bowl champion.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
We really like, I don't hear people be littling.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
I never hear it. Yeah, but the second one, I mean,
you might hear it, but it doesn't seem to stick.
Are you with me on that?
Speaker 5 (35:30):
Like, I think we just think of Peyton.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
As a two time super Bowl champion, regardless how poorly
he played that last season they won.
Speaker 7 (35:37):
Well.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Part of the reason why it doesn't stick, like criticism
of that second of that Denver super Bowl wouldn't stick
in the same way is a he didn't even win
the MVP of that game.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
But also he.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Had an incredible Like if he never went to that
super Bowl, he would still be in the Hall of Fame, Right,
if he never went to that football he would still
be considered in the Hall of Fame because what was
his biggest problem not being able to beat Tom Brady,
which is true of almost everybody who played in the
AFC the entire time he was there. Right, it's true
for everybody that you know. It's like saying, oh, you know, well,
(36:12):
Caarl Malone never won a championship. For John Stockon never
won a championship, Well, that's because they were playing against
Michael Jordan. He wasn't really giving him out right. So
when that's part of the reason why I think it
makes the argument for Eli to be in because when
you look at why do people not you know, because
the career that Peyton had kept bumping his head against
tom Well, Eli didn't have hell of them. I mean
(36:34):
even closer to the regular season career that Peyton man
he had. But when you go up into the biggest moments,
he had some big time Hall of Fame moments that
throw them manning him, Like you said, to catch the
tyree catch. Those things are are in are just burned
into NFL history.
Hosts And Creators
kelvin washington
Rob Parker
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.