October 29, 2024 • 21 mins
Rob and Kelvin use Game 4 of the World Series to tell us if they’d rather lose in the championship round or not get there at all and explain why so many NFL general managers think they can mold a project player like Anthony Richardson. Plus, former NFL scout Daniel Kelly swings by to discuss Richardson’s benching, the rollercoaster season thus far for Caleb Williams and much more!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Bruce and Ron Harker.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And we're gonna talk about obviously the Yankees could be
out if they lose and whatever, and before game sweep
be hard for fans to stomach. But I was thinking
to myself, would you rather your fit your team go
to the get to the championship and lose or not
if you know they're not gonna win?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Like I'm paying of it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Like like and and and it's more than just baseball.
We can talk about Lebron. Lebron's been ten times, but
he's lost six times. Who else am I thinking of?
Jerry West with the Lakes? Jerry he went nine times,
like like, would you rather.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Go twice the Buffalo Bills with them?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Not all for four straight Super Bowls?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Do you see what I'm.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Saying like that to me is like painful to go
to my team goes four super Bowls and losers all four.
I'd rather go to one win that one than to
go to all four because of the heartache and the
pain that goes with.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Well, I mean, if you're okay, the Buffalo Bills are whole,
and we can spend an hour on the Buffalo Bills,
because there's no way you think you'd lose four in
a row like That's it's almost an impossibility.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Remember how they lost the first one kicks, nor would
miss the kick that would have What would have happened
had he made the first changes everything?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
It might change everything. They might have won three or
four year row.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Right, it changes as much as I give you crap
about the lot.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
If they don't get the tuck.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Rule, you don't know what maybe because all right, Tom,
you were good to be going back to drewid Bledsoe
and just you never know. So absolutely there are things
that change the course of history in sports and in
life in general. But so if I'm taking out the
Buffalo Bills a four straight because that's just too much pain, right,
if it's just a hey, my team went one year
we went to the NBA Finals, the Super Bowl, the
(02:27):
World Series and we didn't lose, and I was sick.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
We were there but we didn't lose.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I wont that then we just never can make it
to the World Series, whatever the championship of said sport.
I'd rather at least get there, you know what I mean.
I know it's gonna sting and it's gonna hurt, but
at least we got there. We fall, we put up
a good fight, like as a Pistons fan, they won
and oh four, they beat the Lakers. Then they went
back the next year and they lost in seven to
(02:52):
the Spurs. As much as it hurt, I'd rather than
be there because it helps tell this a great example
that singularly might be the one last thing that Chauncey
Billups needed to get in the Hall of Fame. You
get what I mean, because now he can say two
time Finals appearance, well, obviously winning one, but I mean
that extra finals appearance, that extra Super Bowl appearance, that
extra World Series opinion sorry appearance.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
It does help.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
When we're talking about your legacy, we're talking about that
little extra thing that can get you in the Hall
of Fame or get you in you know whatever it
may be these conversations. So I'd rather get there and
it's gonna thing. It's gonna hurt, but I can say
I'm a Super Bowl appearing quarterback.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
They might even get you a jobs. Honestly, what we
do you know, super Bowl?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I don't know if you if you want to have
Like in Lebron's case, it wasn't one like Jerry West.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Jerry West one in eighth and final. He's still to
the death. He was bitter, like heard about that.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Of course, cause because you got there a lot of
times and the same team and in the year he
won the MVP.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I think the Lakers loss. They did. He the only
person has won in a play that well. But but
but lost and you were balling man.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And then's case, you know, like six, when you're looking
at it and you just talked about legacy and whatnot,
that hurts him. I don't care what anybody says. Like
he's lost more than Michael Jordan has won. Michael Jordan
was six and oh and he's lost six. And so
when you look at it and you go all of
his accomplishments and you add in winning, I bet you
(04:21):
if Lebron would have a stronger case if he was
three and oh rather than four and six.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
I do, I do, because he would never have lost.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
But then but the argument still, but Jordan was six
and you can't get past the six and oh.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
No, but he would at least he would never have lost,
and then he has the all time scoring record. Then
you can start mountain say well, when he got there,
he didn't lose, And it could be different because you
could also make the case that the NBA now has
all these great players. Steph Curry won some championships, right, yeah,
you know what I mean, Like there's some other dirt.
(04:56):
Novinski won one, and you could kind of make a
case that it was way more competitive and more guys.
You see what I'm saying, that we're around then, But
to go to that many and lose, But I just
gotta be painful.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
I if I'm if I'm telling the Lebron story or
whatever that helps, I know it hurts because you know,
if you're going up if I'm going up against six
and oh, I'm going up against six and oh, whether
I'm four and oh or four and ten, I think
for me, it just shows kind of like magic Magic's
five and four. At least, it's like, man, that man
went nine times just crazy. In Lebron's case, he went
(05:30):
ten times. Like that's nuts. So to me, that at
least ads like, dude, not only did he go to
the finals win four, he went ten times. He went
nine times if he's magic. So I get your point
of you never lost, But to me, if you've gone
that many times, that's still crazy. Like what you literally
for a period of your life. If you go seven
eight years ago, you almost didn't know anything but being
(05:50):
in the finals, like right, but opening day, you know
tip off and up and Lebron put the things that
we know put him in the finals. He might not
win it, I don't know. We gotta wait and see
put him in Like that's crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
To me, it's like, though is another like you have
more disappointment than you have than you have like feeling
you forick about something. I always always talk about Joe
Montana and his resume. I know people four to oh
eleven touchdowns, no picks. He won two with Jerry Rice,
two without Jerry Rice. He was the MVP three of
(06:24):
those four Super Bowls and twice he had to throw
a game winning touchdown, not a field goal to win
the game. Like, when you look at all that in
a nutshell, it's hard to like, you don't have any negative.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
He's in the right, no any negative. Like feel for
Joe Montana.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
If you're Joe Montana, you always feel great, even though
it was only four times.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah, the only thing that's weird is not weird, but
the luxury that Bill Walsh had to just be like
Joe man. He everything you just mentioned about Joe montannag
he that sounds really good. Yeah, give me the other guy,
Steve Young. Like that's crazy to think you'd have your
guys that good in Joe Montana, but you have someone
who might even be more naturally talented and Steve Young
(07:05):
is crazy. But get your point. And that's why there's
a there's like two or three quarterbacks. If you say
Tom Ray's a goat, come on, I ain't arguing with you.
If you say Joe Mom is the goat, I ain't
argue with you. There's like two or three guys and
every sport to me. Like again, if somebody said Kareem,
I get it. If say Mike I'm not I get it.
If you say Lebron, I get it. So there's a
Eastport kind of has a handful of guys to me
(07:26):
where you know, depending on your argument, what you like
or your era right, you might pick that guy. Joe
Montana absolutely has a claim to be the greatest quarterback
of all time for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 4 (07:47):
Anthony Richardson man I was saying how he reminds me
of you know how women love a good project where
they're like, hey, girl, he's not right for you, or
he's a bad boy, or you know, he always crushes
women's heart. They're like, it doesn't matter, girl, I can
change him, or he just needs me, or he just
needs a little you know, I'll fix him.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Let me fix him real quick.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
That's to me is sometime what happens with the NFL
when they take these guys strictly and solely based off potential.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And that's what Anthony Richardson was.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
The dude started thirteen games in college and I know
me started and he was thirteen and Ozero he was
a Heisman candidate.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
He was team wasn't winning like that.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
He wasn't that great yet, just when he would have
kind of Jamis Winston like where you have a great game,
then he have a horrible game. If a great pass,
if a terrible one, he'd have a fifty sixty yard run.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Then he'd do something of some blunder.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
But you have the coach who went ahead and picked
him as a second quarterback picked, and you're like Anthony Richardson,
then I miss something. And sometimes they take on these
projects and it reminds me of how sometimes you get
a guy who is sitting right there at the obvious pick,
like remember Deshaun Watson pre all the craziness goes the
championship games. In college, a leader has a really successful career,
(09:00):
doesn't get picked till like Lamar Jackson wins a Heisman
the next year, could have won a Heisman. What happens there?
He doesn't get picked. He's like the fifth, sixth quarterback pick.
Sometimes they outthink themselves, trying to be cute, trying to
be smart and pick this potential when the obvious is
sitting right there in your face. And that happens a
lot of time was specifically quarterbacks in the NFL, where
(09:20):
they're just like, I'm gonna miss the obvious guy and
go get this guy. I'm gonna go get JaMarcus Russell
was like, Yo, by all accounts, he's not that guy.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I'm gonna go get Anthony Richardson.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Hey, hold on, it's not an exact science. I mean
there's a lot of.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Guys Anthony Richardson like we didn't he never will. He
was absolutely a project and they can't afford. It's not like,
let's say, for whatever reasons, Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs
had an early pick because some trade they did years
ago and they ended up like, hey, we can get
this guy. We can Jordan love him right, sit him
down a few years, let Patrick do his thing. Like
the Colts needed a quarterback, and it's like, that's the
(09:56):
guy you draft, and now here you are you got
him tapping out of games. I mean, I was tired, man,
you know. And he's sitting here going out of games.
And now they've benched him for Joe Flacco, which we
thought Joe Flaky was done a couple of years ago.
Now here he's making a resurgence with the Browns and
also the Colts.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I just don't know how God that young, how are
you tired?
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Like an amazing shape at least built wise, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Cardio.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Clearly, Cardio know what I'm saying. You gotta pass out.
You gotta call a time out.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Do you hear what?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Shoot, I'm blanking out on the Cowboys? Uh defensive player?
The guys you always telling Michah freaking Michael Parks. He said, man,
you gotta lie. He said, they canna ask you the question,
he said, but you gotta lie. He was like, you
can't give him that answer. He was like, he needs
some pr training. When they asked you, hey, what happened
on that play? He said, you got man, myrib was
(10:45):
hurting or something was off with my knee. I just
need to go talk to the to the bathroom some Yeah.
I ain't gonna lie to y'all.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Man.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
I had to, you know, really, if you want me
to be hot and something was wrong, thought, I was gonna,
you know, pass up something not I just need to
tap out. I was tired, Like we listen, we believe
in honesty, but br you got to come up with
something better.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Things that you don't say and you can't not at
that position as a professional athlete as well.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
It's just people don't want to hear the truth.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Nah, they don't want to hear that, and it feels
like you've turned on your team or let them go,
you know what I mean, like let them down.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And that's why I think.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
You can't do it, because I mean, you got the
linemen who are blocking somebody every single play, right, you
get to drop back, Okay, move around a little bit.
They're blocking a six foot, three hundred pounds human every
play and they're still going and you better pull it
down of it and be like nad remember the Super Bowl,
I throw up, get it out something. Come on now, man,
we need you. You can't just be out here talking
about I'm tired and tapping out. But yeah, I just
(11:40):
I just think they treat it like women. They look
at these projects, and oftentimes women are again the el
see all ignore all the red flags, ignore all the
other things they're hearing about people, and they'll just say no, no, no, girl,
you don't know. Wait till I get them. I can
change them. And sometimes the NFL just treats it like
that when there's just an obvious answer in their face,
and it's another quarterback, it's somebody else.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
But they're like, no, no, no, wait till we get him.
Look what we can do.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
No, you don't understand our offensive coordinator, or you don't
understand our quarterback coach. No, he ain't that good right now,
thirteen starts, wasn't that great? And it starts, but just
was a marvel because he can throw it ninety five
yards on his knees, and he's super in shape and
he's fast, and I get it. That's intriguing, right, that's
that girl walking around, got a beautiful body, but no
(12:23):
brains or or you know, or you can't cook or
whatever it is. But you're like, no, I can, I
can get her how I want it? All right, Well,
good luck.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
But that's why I say it's a bad move unless
he's not gonna play for them anymore.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And that's might be at that.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Because because to me, if it's just a bad situation,
then you want to reprimand him and tell him that
you can't do that or whatever you want to say.
That's fine, but you can't then decide to put him
back in because you realize you're not going anywhere with
Joe flacole, Do you know what I mean? Like, that's
the part that I don't I think unless you totally
(12:59):
gave up on them.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And that might be the case, and Ephral might.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Be right, because that's what it feels like, like there's
a thrown the of the towel on that kid.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Yeah, and you wonder too, what's gonna happen if he's
able to u to bounce back from that?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Do they trade him?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
You know? They say within the team, this is not
us giving up on him. This is us letting him
sit back, watch, assess, and uh and have an opportunity
to grow.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
But that's what they're saying.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
But if you read some of the Adam Schefter is
already saying, this is kind of the story they're telling.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
But by all accounts, he's probably gonna be out of there.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
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listen Live.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Company live from the Tireck dot com studios. We are
joined now by Daniel Kelly, former NFL scout and author
First Round Mock.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Make sure you follow him on Twitter. What's up, Daniel,
How you doing.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
Hey, I'm doing really well. Robin Calvin, thanks you so
much for me on the show tonight.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
No doubt a problem. We can start it off somebody
we talked about earlier. I said, Man, sometimes these NFL teams,
these scouts, these gms, they fall in love kind of
like when a woman knows a man is bad, has
a bunch of red flags, but they say, I can
fix him.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I want to fix her upper.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
They do that sometimes with these quarterbacks, Daniel, And that's
is that what happened with Anthony Richardson only thirteen starts
wasn't necessarily your traditional quarterback, wasn't that great with the stats,
but they fell in love with the physical stats.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Is that what happened there?
Speaker 5 (14:32):
I'm not sure what happened. I love the analogy, you know,
because when I looked at Anthony and Richardson on game
film and studied all his plays with the Florida Gators,
to me, on film, he looked like a glorified option
quarterback who had difficulty reading college level defensive pass coverage schemes.
(14:54):
This guy was a run first past second law prospect.
Everything he did of Florida was predicated upon the play action.
And you know, fake barely completed half his passes at
Florida the last year fifty three point eight percent, fifty
four point seven overall, could barely hit the bronxide of
a barn. And I also labeled him, and this is
(15:15):
something I felt like a lot of people missed on
as a free draft high injury risk because he was
a run guy and the NFL is just not that
kind to running quarterbacks. I've never, to your point, remotely
understood the pick. This is one of the biggest reaches
to me in NFL draft history. There was just absolutely
nothing whatsoever on his game film at Florida that remotely
(15:37):
suggested he should go first round. And then, you know,
you look at what's happened this offseason, you know, or
the last season, you know, growing shoulder surgery. That just
compels the problems. He dropped from fifty nine point five
percent completion percent Engines rookie season all the way down
plummeted to forty four point four percent overall this season.
Of course, last week was thirty one point three. It
just gets worse and worse. But you know, here's the thing,
(16:00):
and here's the beauty of it. And this is the
beauty of it research pre draft. They're looking at pre
draft intel. This guy has never been a natural passer.
This isn't an epiphany. This is one of the easiest
evaluations I've ever done. This was a guy in high school.
In high school, he completed fifty three point two percent
of his passes. In college fifty four point seven. In
the NFL, he's got fifty point two right now. So
(16:21):
this has never been a natural passer. And I've never
understood all the hype and the comparisons of Josh Allen
and Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning. It just is absurd
to me. I've never understood, you know, why we're even
in the situation. I put a fifth road grade on
free grafts, labeled them as a pre graft bus to
be one the first four mounts.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Well Richardon had done last year, he had some moments.
So I hear what you're saying and all that. I
don't think that the colts were feeling that way last
year about him.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Were I I couldn't answer for what they were looking at.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
No, no, no, but I'm saying last year. I mean I
think that any of the talent every time he can
throw it eighty yards.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
All these I'm asking you, when you watched them last year,
we prize yet any success in the NFL, I guess
is my question.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Yeah, I was surprised. I was. His mechanics are extremely inconsistent.
There's two different versions of his mechanics on the film
with the Colts, you know, getting past the Florida part,
there was the part where he's just kind of like
the plays kind of lose. His mechanics are a lot better.
He throws with a wider base, he follows through more
with an equally distributed you know, using his legs and
his upper body to pass the ball. That's the better
(17:25):
version of Anthony Richie said. Then there's these moments where
he sits back there, he tenses up, and all of
a sudden he just becomes almost all upper body and
that's when the ball placement just starts flying downfield all
over the place. So yeah, I was surprised to even
have the success that he had. To me, it was
just like, you know, I didn't understand what they were doing.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
All right, let's go with Caleb Williams. You were down
on Caleb Williams got off to a slow start. You
were probably feeling good about yourself and then he started
playing really well to get three games in a row
of three hundred yards. No Bears rookie ever done that. Obviously,
they've had a hard time with quarterbacks. What do you
think of Caleb and his progression and what what you've
seen so far?
Speaker 5 (18:08):
Well, that's a that's a good question. I'm still in
the same spot with Caleb Williams. I was pre draft.
You know, I had a fourth thrown grade going into
the the draft process. Label them as a is a
shirtfire one hundred bust if you won in the first round.
I haven't moved off that here.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You're still you're still going to hold on to a
one hundred percent bust.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Come on, now, wait a minute, I just can't.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I need you, Daniel, to own up that you got
this one wrong, okay, because he's not a one hundred
one hundred percent bust.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Really, have you seen him a one hundred percent bust?
Speaker 5 (18:43):
I've seen him. I've seen him.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I've seen him, and you still think he's a one
hundred percent bust.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Yes, I've seen him have success against two of the
worst teams in the NFL. Against the Carolina Panthers and
Jacksonville Jaguars, who were both one win teams the time
they played them. I saw him with all the short
thinking Doug passes that were the seventy three percent of
the Saints against the Rams within that game.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Who are you supposed to play? Who are you supposed
to play against? Did you when you look at Tom
Brady in the in the AFC least and he beat
up on the Jets and the Bills and the Miami
Dolphins for fifteen years, did you downgrade him because he
played terrible cop bad competition or not.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
I wouldn't evaluate him in all fairness, but you get
my point.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
All I'm saying is you can only play who's on
the schedule. Right If he doesn't play.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Well against them, then he's really bad.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Absolutely, you can't. You're right about. You can play the schedule.
But here's the thing. I mean, compared to his peers
right now, he's of all the starting first round quarterbacks
right now they're starting, he's the worst amongst the three.
With Jane Daniels bow Knicks and with him with the
KBRV at number twenty four, Nick is at number twenty
and Jane Daniels at number five. He's in that lower
ashmhn of QBR compared to his peers overall in the
(19:58):
NFL too, And to me, it just seems like he's
trying to make the league adapt to him, opposed to
trying to adapt to the league. And the scary part
is the bear schedule with Wadnamstown. The scretch is brutal.
I'd be surprised that they win another three, maybe four
games total this season.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
I want to be with you on this one, but
Kayla Williams, I still see the talent, I still see
the ability there, and he's at an organization that has
been horrific when it comes to the quarterback. So I
think it's only all to me. It's only up from
here when it comes to him. I want to ask
you about this being joined by Daniel Kelly, former NFL
Scout author. I look at a guy like Bryce Young
who may have to start again, and you know, the
(20:38):
Panthers don't know what they're doing. This is a question
do you think we'll get to where we saw with
Eli Manning and John Elway back in the day, where hey,
I'm not going to this team and if you if
you draft me, I ain't gonna play because I think
the Bryce Young experiment might be a situation where a team,
you know, look, they're horrible organization, and if I'm whoever
the next it guy is in this case Kayler Williams
this year, Bryce Young a couple of years ago, I'm
(21:00):
not going to play for a team X. Do you
think we'll start to see that again from more of
these star studied young quarterbacks saying, hey, man, I don't
want to go a horrible organization.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
Yeah, that's a great point. Absolutely, I do. I absolutely
think we're going to see more of that going forward.
I think we're starting to see a little hints of
that with with you know, Deion Sanders and Shador Sanders
and him kind of hinting, you know, where he might
want his son to play in that. I think that
that's absolutely going to happen as we go forward, because
you know, this is not a recipe for success for
(21:30):
a lot of these young quarterbacks to go into, you know,
situations that are the worst situations in the league with
sky high expectations, and there's a real learning curve because
the difference is between college football and the NFL are profound.
I mean that the speed of the game is higher,
the complexity is much different. It's words, the NFL versus
the college football. Even the size of the ball is different.
(21:52):
But Jimmy Pickett thumbing out the hard way, so I
think there is going to be some of that to
your points,
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Bruce and Ron Harker.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And we're gonna talk about obviously the Yankees could be
out if they lose and whatever, and before game sweep
be hard for fans to stomach. But I was thinking
to myself, would you rather your fit your team go
to the get to the championship and lose or not
if you know they're not gonna win?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Like I'm paying of it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Like like and and and it's more than just baseball.
We can talk about Lebron. Lebron's been ten times, but
he's lost six times. Who else am I thinking of?
Jerry West with the Lakes? Jerry he went nine times,
like like, would you rather.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Go twice the Buffalo Bills with them?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Not all for four straight Super Bowls?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Do you see what I'm.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Saying like that to me is like painful to go
to my team goes four super Bowls and losers all four.
I'd rather go to one win that one than to
go to all four because of the heartache and the
pain that goes with.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Well, I mean, if you're okay, the Buffalo Bills are whole,
and we can spend an hour on the Buffalo Bills,
because there's no way you think you'd lose four in
a row like That's it's almost an impossibility.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Remember how they lost the first one kicks, nor would
miss the kick that would have What would have happened
had he made the first changes everything?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
It might change everything. They might have won three or
four year row.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Right, it changes as much as I give you crap
about the lot.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
If they don't get the tuck.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Rule, you don't know what maybe because all right, Tom,
you were good to be going back to drewid Bledsoe
and just you never know. So absolutely there are things
that change the course of history in sports and in
life in general. But so if I'm taking out the
Buffalo Bills a four straight because that's just too much pain, right,
if it's just a hey, my team went one year
we went to the NBA Finals, the Super Bowl, the
(02:27):
World Series and we didn't lose, and I was sick.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
We were there but we didn't lose.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I wont that then we just never can make it
to the World Series, whatever the championship of said sport.
I'd rather at least get there, you know what I mean.
I know it's gonna sting and it's gonna hurt, but
at least we got there. We fall, we put up
a good fight, like as a Pistons fan, they won
and oh four, they beat the Lakers. Then they went
back the next year and they lost in seven to
(02:52):
the Spurs. As much as it hurt, I'd rather than
be there because it helps tell this a great example
that singularly might be the one last thing that Chauncey
Billups needed to get in the Hall of Fame. You
get what I mean, because now he can say two
time Finals appearance, well, obviously winning one, but I mean
that extra finals appearance, that extra Super Bowl appearance, that
extra World Series opinion sorry appearance.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
It does help.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
When we're talking about your legacy, we're talking about that
little extra thing that can get you in the Hall
of Fame or get you in you know whatever it
may be these conversations. So I'd rather get there and
it's gonna thing. It's gonna hurt, but I can say
I'm a Super Bowl appearing quarterback.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
They might even get you a jobs. Honestly, what we
do you know, super Bowl?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I don't know if you if you want to have
Like in Lebron's case, it wasn't one like Jerry West.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Jerry West one in eighth and final. He's still to
the death. He was bitter, like heard about that.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Of course, cause because you got there a lot of
times and the same team and in the year he
won the MVP.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I think the Lakers loss. They did. He the only
person has won in a play that well. But but
but lost and you were balling man.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And then's case, you know, like six, when you're looking
at it and you just talked about legacy and whatnot,
that hurts him. I don't care what anybody says. Like
he's lost more than Michael Jordan has won. Michael Jordan
was six and oh and he's lost six. And so
when you look at it and you go all of
his accomplishments and you add in winning, I bet you
(04:21):
if Lebron would have a stronger case if he was
three and oh rather than four and six.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
I do, I do, because he would never have lost.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
But then but the argument still, but Jordan was six
and you can't get past the six and oh.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
No, but he would at least he would never have lost,
and then he has the all time scoring record. Then
you can start mountain say well, when he got there,
he didn't lose, And it could be different because you
could also make the case that the NBA now has
all these great players. Steph Curry won some championships, right, yeah,
you know what I mean, Like there's some other dirt.
(04:56):
Novinski won one, and you could kind of make a
case that it was way more competitive and more guys.
You see what I'm saying, that we're around then, But
to go to that many and lose, But I just
gotta be painful.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
I if I'm if I'm telling the Lebron story or
whatever that helps, I know it hurts because you know,
if you're going up if I'm going up against six
and oh, I'm going up against six and oh, whether
I'm four and oh or four and ten, I think
for me, it just shows kind of like magic Magic's
five and four. At least, it's like, man, that man
went nine times just crazy. In Lebron's case, he went
(05:30):
ten times. Like that's nuts. So to me, that at
least ads like, dude, not only did he go to
the finals win four, he went ten times. He went
nine times if he's magic. So I get your point
of you never lost, But to me, if you've gone
that many times, that's still crazy. Like what you literally
for a period of your life. If you go seven
eight years ago, you almost didn't know anything but being
(05:50):
in the finals, like right, but opening day, you know
tip off and up and Lebron put the things that
we know put him in the finals. He might not
win it, I don't know. We gotta wait and see
put him in Like that's crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
To me, it's like, though is another like you have
more disappointment than you have than you have like feeling
you forick about something. I always always talk about Joe
Montana and his resume. I know people four to oh
eleven touchdowns, no picks. He won two with Jerry Rice,
two without Jerry Rice. He was the MVP three of
(06:24):
those four Super Bowls and twice he had to throw
a game winning touchdown, not a field goal to win
the game. Like, when you look at all that in
a nutshell, it's hard to like, you don't have any negative.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
He's in the right, no any negative. Like feel for
Joe Montana.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
If you're Joe Montana, you always feel great, even though
it was only four times.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah, the only thing that's weird is not weird, but
the luxury that Bill Walsh had to just be like
Joe man. He everything you just mentioned about Joe montannag
he that sounds really good. Yeah, give me the other guy,
Steve Young. Like that's crazy to think you'd have your
guys that good in Joe Montana, but you have someone
who might even be more naturally talented and Steve Young
(07:05):
is crazy. But get your point. And that's why there's
a there's like two or three quarterbacks. If you say
Tom Ray's a goat, come on, I ain't arguing with you.
If you say Joe Mom is the goat, I ain't
argue with you. There's like two or three guys and
every sport to me. Like again, if somebody said Kareem,
I get it. If say Mike I'm not I get it.
If you say Lebron, I get it. So there's a
Eastport kind of has a handful of guys to me
(07:26):
where you know, depending on your argument, what you like
or your era right, you might pick that guy. Joe
Montana absolutely has a claim to be the greatest quarterback
of all time for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Anthony Richardson man I was saying how he reminds me
of you know how women love a good project where
they're like, hey, girl, he's not right for you, or
he's a bad boy, or you know, he always crushes
women's heart. They're like, it doesn't matter, girl, I can
change him, or he just needs me, or he just
needs a little you know, I'll fix him.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Let me fix him real quick.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
That's to me is sometime what happens with the NFL
when they take these guys strictly and solely based off potential.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And that's what Anthony Richardson was.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
The dude started thirteen games in college and I know
me started and he was thirteen and Ozero he was
a Heisman candidate.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
He was team wasn't winning like that.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
He wasn't that great yet, just when he would have
kind of Jamis Winston like where you have a great game,
then he have a horrible game. If a great pass,
if a terrible one, he'd have a fifty sixty yard run.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Then he'd do something of some blunder.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
But you have the coach who went ahead and picked
him as a second quarterback picked, and you're like Anthony Richardson,
then I miss something. And sometimes they take on these
projects and it reminds me of how sometimes you get
a guy who is sitting right there at the obvious pick,
like remember Deshaun Watson pre all the craziness goes the
championship games. In college, a leader has a really successful career,
(09:00):
doesn't get picked till like Lamar Jackson wins a Heisman
the next year, could have won a Heisman. What happens there?
He doesn't get picked. He's like the fifth, sixth quarterback pick.
Sometimes they outthink themselves, trying to be cute, trying to
be smart and pick this potential when the obvious is
sitting right there in your face. And that happens a
lot of time was specifically quarterbacks in the NFL, where
(09:20):
they're just like, I'm gonna miss the obvious guy and
go get this guy. I'm gonna go get JaMarcus Russell
was like, Yo, by all accounts, he's not that guy.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I'm gonna go get Anthony Richardson.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Hey, hold on, it's not an exact science. I mean
there's a lot of.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Guys Anthony Richardson like we didn't he never will. He
was absolutely a project and they can't afford. It's not like,
let's say, for whatever reasons, Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs
had an early pick because some trade they did years
ago and they ended up like, hey, we can get
this guy. We can Jordan love him right, sit him
down a few years, let Patrick do his thing. Like
the Colts needed a quarterback, and it's like, that's the
(09:56):
guy you draft, and now here you are you got
him tapping out of games. I mean, I was tired, man,
you know. And he's sitting here going out of games.
And now they've benched him for Joe Flacco, which we
thought Joe Flaky was done a couple of years ago.
Now here he's making a resurgence with the Browns and
also the Colts.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I just don't know how God that young, how are
you tired?
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Like an amazing shape at least built wise, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Cardio.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Clearly, Cardio know what I'm saying. You gotta pass out.
You gotta call a time out.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Do you hear what?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Shoot, I'm blanking out on the Cowboys? Uh defensive player?
The guys you always telling Michah freaking Michael Parks. He said, man,
you gotta lie. He said, they canna ask you the question,
he said, but you gotta lie. He was like, you
can't give him that answer. He was like, he needs
some pr training. When they asked you, hey, what happened
on that play? He said, you got man, myrib was
(10:45):
hurting or something was off with my knee. I just
need to go talk to the to the bathroom some Yeah.
I ain't gonna lie to y'all.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Man.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
I had to, you know, really, if you want me
to be hot and something was wrong, thought, I was gonna,
you know, pass up something not I just need to
tap out. I was tired, Like we listen, we believe
in honesty, but br you got to come up with
something better.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Things that you don't say and you can't not at
that position as a professional athlete as well.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
It's just people don't want to hear the truth.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Nah, they don't want to hear that, and it feels
like you've turned on your team or let them go,
you know what I mean, like let them down.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And that's why I think.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
You can't do it, because I mean, you got the
linemen who are blocking somebody every single play, right, you
get to drop back, Okay, move around a little bit.
They're blocking a six foot, three hundred pounds human every
play and they're still going and you better pull it
down of it and be like nad remember the Super Bowl,
I throw up, get it out something. Come on now, man,
we need you. You can't just be out here talking
about I'm tired and tapping out. But yeah, I just
(11:40):
I just think they treat it like women. They look
at these projects, and oftentimes women are again the el
see all ignore all the red flags, ignore all the
other things they're hearing about people, and they'll just say no, no, no, girl,
you don't know. Wait till I get them. I can
change them. And sometimes the NFL just treats it like
that when there's just an obvious answer in their face,
and it's another quarterback, it's somebody else.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
But they're like, no, no, no, wait till we get him.
Look what we can do.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
No, you don't understand our offensive coordinator, or you don't
understand our quarterback coach. No, he ain't that good right now,
thirteen starts, wasn't that great? And it starts, but just
was a marvel because he can throw it ninety five
yards on his knees, and he's super in shape and
he's fast, and I get it. That's intriguing, right, that's
that girl walking around, got a beautiful body, but no
(12:23):
brains or or you know, or you can't cook or
whatever it is. But you're like, no, I can, I
can get her how I want it? All right, Well,
good luck.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
But that's why I say it's a bad move unless
he's not gonna play for them anymore.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And that's might be at that.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Because because to me, if it's just a bad situation,
then you want to reprimand him and tell him that
you can't do that or whatever you want to say.
That's fine, but you can't then decide to put him
back in because you realize you're not going anywhere with
Joe flacole, Do you know what I mean? Like, that's
the part that I don't I think unless you totally
(12:59):
gave up on them.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And that might be the case, and Ephral might.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Be right, because that's what it feels like, like there's
a thrown the of the towel on that kid.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Yeah, and you wonder too, what's gonna happen if he's
able to u to bounce back from that?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Do they trade him?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
You know? They say within the team, this is not
us giving up on him. This is us letting him
sit back, watch, assess, and uh and have an opportunity
to grow.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
But that's what they're saying.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
But if you read some of the Adam Schefter is
already saying, this is kind of the story they're telling.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
But by all accounts, he's probably gonna be out of there.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen Live.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Company live from the Tireck dot com studios. We are
joined now by Daniel Kelly, former NFL scout and author
First Round Mock.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Make sure you follow him on Twitter. What's up, Daniel,
How you doing.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
Hey, I'm doing really well. Robin Calvin, thanks you so
much for me on the show tonight.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
No doubt a problem. We can start it off somebody
we talked about earlier. I said, Man, sometimes these NFL teams,
these scouts, these gms, they fall in love kind of
like when a woman knows a man is bad, has
a bunch of red flags, but they say, I can
fix him.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I want to fix her upper.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
They do that sometimes with these quarterbacks, Daniel, And that's
is that what happened with Anthony Richardson only thirteen starts
wasn't necessarily your traditional quarterback, wasn't that great with the stats,
but they fell in love with the physical stats.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Is that what happened there?
Speaker 5 (14:32):
I'm not sure what happened. I love the analogy, you know,
because when I looked at Anthony and Richardson on game
film and studied all his plays with the Florida Gators,
to me, on film, he looked like a glorified option
quarterback who had difficulty reading college level defensive pass coverage schemes.
(14:54):
This guy was a run first past second law prospect.
Everything he did of Florida was predicated upon the play action.
And you know, fake barely completed half his passes at
Florida the last year fifty three point eight percent, fifty
four point seven overall, could barely hit the bronxide of
a barn. And I also labeled him, and this is
(15:15):
something I felt like a lot of people missed on
as a free draft high injury risk because he was
a run guy and the NFL is just not that
kind to running quarterbacks. I've never, to your point, remotely
understood the pick. This is one of the biggest reaches
to me in NFL draft history. There was just absolutely
nothing whatsoever on his game film at Florida that remotely
(15:37):
suggested he should go first round. And then, you know,
you look at what's happened this offseason, you know, or
the last season, you know, growing shoulder surgery. That just
compels the problems. He dropped from fifty nine point five
percent completion percent Engines rookie season all the way down
plummeted to forty four point four percent overall this season.
Of course, last week was thirty one point three. It
just gets worse and worse. But you know, here's the thing,
(16:00):
and here's the beauty of it. And this is the
beauty of it research pre draft. They're looking at pre
draft intel. This guy has never been a natural passer.
This isn't an epiphany. This is one of the easiest
evaluations I've ever done. This was a guy in high school.
In high school, he completed fifty three point two percent
of his passes. In college fifty four point seven. In
the NFL, he's got fifty point two right now. So
(16:21):
this has never been a natural passer. And I've never
understood all the hype and the comparisons of Josh Allen
and Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning. It just is absurd
to me. I've never understood, you know, why we're even
in the situation. I put a fifth road grade on
free grafts, labeled them as a pre graft bus to
be one the first four mounts.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Well Richardon had done last year, he had some moments.
So I hear what you're saying and all that. I
don't think that the colts were feeling that way last
year about him.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Were I I couldn't answer for what they were looking at.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
No, no, no, but I'm saying last year. I mean I
think that any of the talent every time he can
throw it eighty yards.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
All these I'm asking you, when you watched them last year,
we prize yet any success in the NFL, I guess
is my question.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Yeah, I was surprised. I was. His mechanics are extremely inconsistent.
There's two different versions of his mechanics on the film
with the Colts, you know, getting past the Florida part,
there was the part where he's just kind of like
the plays kind of lose. His mechanics are a lot better.
He throws with a wider base, he follows through more
with an equally distributed you know, using his legs and
his upper body to pass the ball. That's the better
(17:25):
version of Anthony Richie said. Then there's these moments where
he sits back there, he tenses up, and all of
a sudden he just becomes almost all upper body and
that's when the ball placement just starts flying downfield all
over the place. So yeah, I was surprised to even
have the success that he had. To me, it was
just like, you know, I didn't understand what they were doing.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
All right, let's go with Caleb Williams. You were down
on Caleb Williams got off to a slow start. You
were probably feeling good about yourself and then he started
playing really well to get three games in a row
of three hundred yards. No Bears rookie ever done that. Obviously,
they've had a hard time with quarterbacks. What do you
think of Caleb and his progression and what what you've
seen so far?
Speaker 5 (18:08):
Well, that's a that's a good question. I'm still in
the same spot with Caleb Williams. I was pre draft.
You know, I had a fourth thrown grade going into
the the draft process. Label them as a is a
shirtfire one hundred bust if you won in the first round.
I haven't moved off that here.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You're still you're still going to hold on to a
one hundred percent bust.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Come on, now, wait a minute, I just can't.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I need you, Daniel, to own up that you got
this one wrong, okay, because he's not a one hundred
one hundred percent bust.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Really, have you seen him a one hundred percent bust?
Speaker 5 (18:43):
I've seen him. I've seen him.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I've seen him, and you still think he's a one
hundred percent bust.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Yes, I've seen him have success against two of the
worst teams in the NFL. Against the Carolina Panthers and
Jacksonville Jaguars, who were both one win teams the time
they played them. I saw him with all the short
thinking Doug passes that were the seventy three percent of
the Saints against the Rams within that game.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Who are you supposed to play? Who are you supposed
to play against? Did you when you look at Tom
Brady in the in the AFC least and he beat
up on the Jets and the Bills and the Miami
Dolphins for fifteen years, did you downgrade him because he
played terrible cop bad competition or not.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
I wouldn't evaluate him in all fairness, but you get
my point.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
All I'm saying is you can only play who's on
the schedule. Right If he doesn't play.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Well against them, then he's really bad.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Absolutely, you can't. You're right about. You can play the schedule.
But here's the thing. I mean, compared to his peers
right now, he's of all the starting first round quarterbacks
right now they're starting, he's the worst amongst the three.
With Jane Daniels bow Knicks and with him with the
KBRV at number twenty four, Nick is at number twenty
and Jane Daniels at number five. He's in that lower
ashmhn of QBR compared to his peers overall in the
(19:58):
NFL too, And to me, it just seems like he's
trying to make the league adapt to him, opposed to
trying to adapt to the league. And the scary part
is the bear schedule with Wadnamstown. The scretch is brutal.
I'd be surprised that they win another three, maybe four
games total this season.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
I want to be with you on this one, but
Kayla Williams, I still see the talent, I still see
the ability there, and he's at an organization that has
been horrific when it comes to the quarterback. So I
think it's only all to me. It's only up from
here when it comes to him. I want to ask
you about this being joined by Daniel Kelly, former NFL
Scout author. I look at a guy like Bryce Young
who may have to start again, and you know, the
(20:38):
Panthers don't know what they're doing. This is a question
do you think we'll get to where we saw with
Eli Manning and John Elway back in the day, where hey,
I'm not going to this team and if you if
you draft me, I ain't gonna play because I think
the Bryce Young experiment might be a situation where a team,
you know, look, they're horrible organization, and if I'm whoever
the next it guy is in this case Kayler Williams
this year, Bryce Young a couple of years ago, I'm
(21:00):
not going to play for a team X. Do you
think we'll start to see that again from more of
these star studied young quarterbacks saying, hey, man, I don't
want to go a horrible organization.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
Yeah, that's a great point. Absolutely, I do. I absolutely
think we're going to see more of that going forward.
I think we're starting to see a little hints of
that with with you know, Deion Sanders and Shador Sanders
and him kind of hinting, you know, where he might
want his son to play in that. I think that
that's absolutely going to happen as we go forward, because
you know, this is not a recipe for success for
(21:30):
a lot of these young quarterbacks to go into, you know,
situations that are the worst situations in the league with
sky high expectations, and there's a real learning curve because
the difference is between college football and the NFL are profound.
I mean that the speed of the game is higher,
the complexity is much different. It's words, the NFL versus
the college football. Even the size of the ball is different.
(21:52):
But Jimmy Pickett thumbing out the hard way, so I
think there is going to be some of that to
your points,
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