March 19, 2025 • 28 mins
Rob and Kelvin debate whether or not the Detroit Lions are poised to take a big step back in 2025, tell us why this Daryl Morey fiasco is further proof that analytics is running sports and explain why Nikola Jokic doesn’t need to be a good defender to be consider the Greatest Player in the NBA.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
You're listening to the best of the Odd Couple.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Big story today in the NFL, all these teams are
submitting their proposals for rule changes. One of them that
we've talked about for weeks now is the Green Bay
Packers want to get rid of the Push Push. They've
now submitted their third different reason as to why they
want to get rid of it, so shows you that
they really don't like that one.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
It's not like when you're trying to go out. Maybe okay,
here go another reason.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
But for the purposes of this show, the Destroit Lion
to have caused many of fights here on The Odd
Couple submitted two of them that people like Rob Parker
think seem pretty nefarious. Number One, they are submitting a
proposal that would eliminate the automatic first down that comes
within illegal contact or defensive holding penalty. Seems innocuous enough
(01:06):
until you see that the Lions have by far the
most defensive holding penalties over the last two years.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
The NFL owners, they're going to say, Okay, yeah, right, Lions,
I mean, talk about going in there with something that
you're the biggest culprit of and have you know cost
them in situations.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
No, it's not gonna happen. Go ahead, and number ten
ready to jump on them. Number two, this is the
biggest one.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
This is one that could sent shockwave not only through
the NFC but through the NFL altogether. They want to
change the NFL playoff seating that would lose regular season
records as a way to determine rank He's as opposed
to division winners right now.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
You have a situation where if you win the division, you're.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Automatically getting a home field, You're automatically going to be
seen a certain point, which is why some people don't
like it, because gotta seemed like Tapa Bay Buccaneers, who
win the terrible NFC South every year, and the Panthers, right,
and they're ranked higher in the playoff seeding than a
team like last year the Minnesota Vikis who won fourteen games.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Rob Parker what are your thoughts on these.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Rule changes from the Detroit Lions.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
This is just a precursor to the Lions telling you
they're gonna fall off. They're trying to head off the
wagons and trying to figure out, how can we help
ourselves when we know we're not gonna go over there.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Last year fifteen and two, fifteen and two again, how
that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
They're not gonna have the number one seed in the NFC,
so they're trying to protect themselves so that they're not
a fifth seed or a sixth seed and have to
go on the road or even if I think they're
not gonna make the playoffs. But that's neither here nor there.
But this sounds like belly achin. You had a game, right,
what a chance to get to to beat the Washington
(02:56):
Commanders in your own building as a number one seed,
you have to go to the NFC Championship game and
maybe get to the Super Bowl finally, and they wet
the bed against the rookie quarterback. Your quarterback turned to
goo in the biggest moment of the season, and now
you're worried about all these other things. We already know
(03:16):
you lost your two coordinators. Okay, we know that a
lot of people have left and a lot of things
are going to change. Is not going to be the
same thing that we've seen the last couple of years,
and it just it doesn't feel good because it shouldn't matter.
Teams that have been the sixth seed. We talked about it.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Eli Manning was never the number one seed. They won
two super Bowls. When the Packers won.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
With Aaron Rodgers sixth seed, they didn't go on the
road the stealer fifth sixth seed? Do you know what
I'm saying? Like, if you're good, it doesn't matter. You
could go on the road and win a couple of games.
So I just think that to go out there and
put this out there, just why are you and the
other one with the defensive first down when they're the
biggest culprit of it, It would be impressive if they were
(03:58):
last in the league and they were asked, can for that?
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Do you understand what I'm saying? So that's just that
one you just reference. That was them just saying, hey,
why not let's just go for it, Let's give it
a shot. What benefits us? Because I think the numbers
were they had eight, they were the closest to them.
Second was eight penalties behind. So clearly they lead the
league that in those defensive penalties. And that was just saying, hey,
this is something we do. We play defense aggressively. Let's
(04:22):
see if we can get something in our favor.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
The second one, going back to the seating, that would
actually makes sense. I understand why they would propose that one.
I don't agree with it, but I would understand why
they propose it because on paper, it does make sense.
If you're the Vikings, you sit there fourteen and three
and now all of a sudden you got to play
a road game. That is kind of crazy to be
fourteen and three and one the road. So that wouldn't
(04:45):
logically make sense, but it does. What I'm saying, I
don't agree with it, is what I'm saying. I get
the offering of the idea. I don't don't have team
that many teams with that kind of record, But of
course house what made it crazy. NFC North went crazy,
but because they played the AFC South or whatever, and
they got fat off of those bad teams.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
So that's a rare situation. We have three teams that
win twelve games or more.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, I don't even makes sense, right, And that's why
I said, I see why you would. Hey, we're throwing
stuff out. Let's see what sticks, right, That's what they're doing.
That's why the Packers are throwing out the touch push
over and over and over again, and teams probably put
out some other ones that we would go, oh, that's
a head scratcher. I actually get it, but I'm still
with it, as in, I'm with the division leaders getting
that spot in the playoffs because that ultimately is.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Priority number one.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
When you hear a team, hey, you guys are good, Eagles,
you want to repeat the super Bowl? Or hey, Lions,
you're good super Bowl to the first thing they say
is our job is to win what our division?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Right, win our division.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Then we'll continue to see how good we off see
if we can win the number one seed and move on.
They unfortunately try to win the super Bowl. But thing
number one is win your division. So I'm still comfortable
with that being the way the game is played.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
But I ain't mad at them. That's what.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Listen, we know about what thirty about two is two
maybe three teams of the thirty two and the things
they've offered. I'm sure some wild and crazy stuff in there.
The defensive one the penalties is laughing. That was them
to say, hey, this is strictly for us, in favor
of us, because this is how we play defense. But
the step back is still crazy to me that you
(06:19):
think that. I'm not saying they went in fifteen and two.
Maybe they go twelve and five or thirteen and four,
but the idea that it's a major step back, I
don't see that to the point of not making the
postseason when all.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Their players are still there.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
That's the part of me I get if they lost
some I'll give I'll give you Hutchinson's back, but I'll
give you an example the Eagles.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
The Eagles went to the Super Bowl, lost both of
their coordinators, started out great and then tanked the end
of the year right and didn't have didn't finish the
year great, And then people were like, what happened to
the Eagles? And I thought that had a lot to
do with losing both coordinators. I think the same thing
can happen because there's a new adjustment. Periods think it's
outrageous and teams all the time they make the play.
(07:03):
Teams go to the Super Bowl at and then and
then they don't make the playoffs the next year.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
But this team.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Usually those teams lose a lot of big name players
because you got good and all of a sudden, guys
need to get paid, Guys need to doe. I'm not
happy with my role because starting this team, I totally
get what you're saying. But here this team that's all
like literally all the key components are there. In fact,
some are coming back who we didn't get to see
in their best defensive player, one of the best in
(07:30):
the league.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
But the one part that I think you're not being
honest with yourself is the schedule that they had a
year ago, which they played a lot of bad teams.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
They rolled up the scoring. People like, go look at
those games that agree.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
The only thing I will say that their schedule this year,
it ain't the schedule that.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And the same thing applies that some of those teams
ain't the same teams they were this year. And the
other thing is they had the biggest point differential because
they were smashing everybody good teams, bad teams. They were
smacking them up. No, but they you beat who's in
front of you. They did that and they also beat
the good teams to You don't go fifteen and two
only beating when you beat but you beat the Vikings twice,
(08:09):
you beat the Packers, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
So, but go look at those teams in the AFC
South that they killed. I mean, I'm just saying, but.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I'm saying that was like four games. No, it's more
than that. That was four teams. Go look at four games, right,
I had one of.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
The weakest schedules. Last sack everybody. Okay, but they're not
going to do it. I can see them nine and eight.
The Bears are going to be better as it should be.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
We'll see, We'll see where the Vikings will be able
to get a split. I'm talking about get a split
with the lines, which I believe they will, and the.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Packers will be able to get away. They take away
the Viking hold on. The Vikings had JJ McCarthy, who
had an incredible season. I mean, uh, Sam, Sam Darnold.
Now they had JJ who ain't throwing one pass in
the NFL, and now they got to be getna split.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
Yeah, because because uh did you say that in Washington
with a rookie water back.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
No, he was great. Oh, no, no, no, But did
he But I'm saying, how did the regrets?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
No?
Speaker 4 (09:06):
No, how did they regrets? How did he beat the Lions?
Speaker 5 (09:09):
A rookie quarterback going into Detroit for for a chance
to go to the NFC Championship game.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
But I'm talking about but you don't know because I'm
just saying you already have him winning one. I'm like, wow,
we ain't game.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I said a split. I didn't say they were gonna
sweep the series. They're not gonna get They're not gonna sweep.
They swept him with a team that went fourteen to three.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And did you see? I saw what he did. But
I'm saying Sam darn to play better than Sam Donald.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
And that quarterback who laid an egg against the Lions
isn't even there anymore because it was in the red
zone four times in the first.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Half and couldn't put it in. He lost to him twice.
I'm just talking about that.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Lemon no no, no, Louisiana Rubb yeah, and Korean Barbecue
talking about I was so sure that you were going
to the super Bowl this year, and all your life
you would come in it.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Every day and be like, oh, lion one again. What
was that song on a lion?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, and then all of a sudden, when it came
to the biggest game of the ear, I ain't hear
a word.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
From him because that keeps it real. Okay, they lost,
they lost, right, That's what it was. Kelvin.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
There is a conversation that the Morris, one of the
Morris brothers, one of the Morris twins, was having on
a podcast talking about how Daryl Morey is pretty much
ruining the seventy six ers.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Organization and specifically ruin rooming.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
You're right like and specifically the use of AI and
analytics and not just AI. Rob Allen Iverson was in
the front off well they should be, and everybody's met
that little statue he got, the little practice facility one.
It was like six inches everything A hold on, This
is AI. But he was talking about him using artificial intelligence.
(10:55):
The crazy part is Rob when it came to like
personnel moves, so I get it all right, Hey, how can.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
We run an offense better? Can we be more efficient.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Okay, crunching in numbers, okay, fine, whatever, I get it.
It was involving personnel moves. That's what made it crazy.
And he started to question, is this why you didn't
want to sign James Harden after you promise him you
would and then you backtracked, And that's why James Harden
said he's a liar and I'll never play with any
organizations he's in. Is this why you went and got
a Paul George who's always injury prone, and then you said,
(11:25):
you know, will be a great idea. Let's pairing with
Joe LMB who's always injured. Terrible idea. And so he
just goes on to question and to me, is a
larger conversation that I'd I'd love to have and you
knowing all sports too, to me, I think there sometimes
we forget the balance between information, knowledge, technology, the eye
(11:46):
test to just knowing the game, the feel of the
game as well when we talk about that and the aesthetics, right,
don't forget this is entertainment. People want to be enjoyed.
They want to like what they see when they watch you,
you know X sports.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
We've seen that in the NBA with all the threes,
and you get all the blowouts. When you have a
bad shooting night of threes. Nobody wants to see all threes.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
It's just not just don't want to see.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Baseball was in a bad place a few years ago
with the home that's it like there was no action,
nobody was on the.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Base by nobody's nothing. Now they made the changes.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Remember the analytics was so good that that guys who
were three hundred hitters all of a sudden but batt
in two twenty because they would move a field the
third basement would be in right field, right the shift
and and take away all their hits.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
They weren't getting on base. It was like ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And then when you sit next to guys, you know,
obviously when I do the Dodger stuff, sitting next to
Nomar j Harre and Adrian Gonzalez and these guys, you
want to see them lose their minds. Show them a shift,
a whole open gap and they're like, dude, you can't
hit in that. And it's because the last you know, decades,
so these young hitters but but not trained.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
They're like, but here's the other thing too, And I
hear what they're saying, but that's not what we wan.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
That's not the spirit of the game. That's not you
know what I mean, They're not. They don't deny that
because because.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
I'm saying, if my bit, if Aaron Judges up and
they have everybody on the left side, I really want
Aaron Judge to dribble a single through first through first bate.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
That's not what I want Aaron Judge to you know what.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I'm saying, the spirit of the game. They completely get
that's your point. In the middle of it being a rule,
right because now it's it's banned, But in the middle
of it being a rule, you should be able to
take advantage of it. It's like, if you play basketball
and I'm giving you the left, you should.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Be confident, okay and go left. I can play.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
But if the game I agree with you, we went
to that and everybody just dribbled the ball.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
If there were a left handed hitter and everybody was
on the.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Right side and set all down the third bait, you
would be like And so that's my point with analytics,
it starts to hurt the game. And I think sometimes
these leagues rob forget about this as much as it's
big money, whether it be gambling, whether it be the
TV deals, whether it be all that. Also, it's entertainment.
(13:58):
Sometimes we forget sports entertainment. We act like it's life
or death. And what I mean by that is we
want to be entertained. And when you start putting analytics
in what happened in the NFL rob They're throwing four
or five hundred yards every game. You got everybody throwing
four or five thousand yards like it was nothing, a
bunch of touchdowns. Defense was getting kicked out. Now you're
starting to see what running backs matter again. You're starting
(14:19):
to see what this year. We remember the first ten
weeks we kept talking about it, defenses would have gotten
better and the scoring was down. Yards per game were
down because defenses came back. We like to see a
little defense. We like to see some running mixing it up.
And I think these leagues get so caught up in
analytics and trying to, you know, be the riddler and
figure it all out, that they forget sometimes it's a
feel of a game. Sometimes, Hey, the advantage to night
(14:42):
is just going down low. I don't care what the
analytics are. The advantage tonight is, I know on paper
says you should be pitching only three innings because no, no.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
You're on fire tonight, right, you're going six. Well, we
saw that.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Remember that was the day that they took out who
was had to know, had to know had a perfect game,
Clayton kershot game on eighty pitches, and they took him
out of the game. And I'm like, dude, like like
he's unhit, Like you can't do that, Like, let let
him walk, somebody, let him get a hit, then you
take him out. Well, how do you take somebody out
(15:13):
of a perfect game with eighty pitches going into.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
The eight and that robs his rob that robs us
of Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
So that was the other thing that I talked about,
like the analytics have done that, taking us out of
things that we should be at the ballpark trying to.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Remember that night. I was there when Curtin Kershaw through
a perfect game. Remember that night I.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Was It doesn't happen all the time.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
I was there when David Well threw one for the
Yankees against the Twins on a Sunday afternoon at Yankee Stadium.
And I've been covering baseball for thirty nine years. That's
the only perfect game I've ever seen. Thirty nine years
I've been going out to the ballpark, and that's the
only perfect game I ever saw.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
After his seventy ninety too, like all right, hey, David,
here you go, give me the ball. You had a
good one, you know what I mean. So they gotta
they gotta come on. I understand new technology, AI and
all that, but AI may I. Sometimes you just got
a feeling. Sometimes it's working. Sometimes you say, man, I'm
a coach and I'm gonna sit back. I'm not gonna
pull this guy out the game who has say, sixty
five points in an NBA game, Rob, because analytics say
(16:11):
if I keep him minutes and proget he he's on
fire tonight. I'm gonna give the fans something to see.
Let me see if he can go for seventy, you
know what I mean. I'm gonnaee if he can go
for eighty. Sometimes we just want to see that, And
I think they rob us of those moments when they
get become all these nerds and engineers and all that, like,
let us enjoy the game sometimes.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So be sure to catch live editions of the Odd
Couple with Rob Parker and kelvin Washington weekdays at seven
pm Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Magic Johnson was on Byron Scott's Fast Break podcast Byron Scott,
Friend of the Show, and he was talking about the
new wave of NBA players and in the conversation, he
explained why he believes that Nikolae Jokic, two time MVP
runner up or possible winning this year as well, is
easily the best player in basketball.
Speaker 6 (16:58):
Heay listen best playing basketball right now and he reads
situations and defense as well. His basketball IQ is off
the charge and then he beats you because he's off rhythm.
He's not one of the best yet, but he is
up there. And the only thing he can't do like
Kareem could do is dominate on both ends. Right That's
(17:21):
what's missing for him because he's not a big shot blocker.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Defensively, he's a little bit. Yeah, to a certain.
Speaker 6 (17:29):
Extent, he's the best player in the league.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
He is the best player in the league.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And the biggest difference is he absolutely is not a
great defender, without a doubt. You know, you can look
at some of the best players in the league. Kobe
had his years, great on both ends. Lebron had his
years obviously both great on both ends. You look at
Giannis had a couple of years. You could argue not
nearly like it used to be.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Not right.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
My biggest thing you don't have to be Kawhi, Leonard
Draymon Green, Ben Wallace. All I asked for Rob is ever, Yeah,
defense defenses. All I asked, can you at least be
putting up an effort and can you at least show
me that you care. Steph Curry a lot of people, Oh,
he's not a great defender, You're right. But one thing
I give him credit for, and you know I've been
(18:13):
critical love him for a while, is that he at
least gives effort on the defensive end.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
He at least tries.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Again, he's not Gary Payton, you know, in his prime,
but he gives efforts.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
So for me, Gary Payton was the glove, then Steph
is the mint. At least he's covering up something, right.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
My biggest issue is at times we've seen Luca Bruh,
you're not even given effort, like you're not right.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
These are big NBA players you're gonna be, and we've
seen that with Lebron. And in this later stage of
his career where Lebron we've even seen some players if
you remember who wasn't who pushed Lebron towards his playing.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Who is that like, dude? Because serious.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Like when you play ball, anybody who's played, I don't
care if it's Ymca, You've pushed the player, right and
Lebron be and Lebron is one of the moments you
push and you go they I just pushed Lebron on
national team. Oh my gosh, but effort and that's been
an issue with Luca And now let me say this, yeah, yeah,
well he'll look at somebody else.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Ain't exactly like Lebron, look over and go like you.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Didn't that's your god, dude, that was your man who
got an easy leap. But you should have known he
was coming down the lane. Lebron, just say my bad.
Brou So, that's my biggest point. I think you can
absolutely be the best player. I think is the best
player in the NBA. And is he the greatest defender.
He's actually taking a step back. They had on the
notes that you know he's a he's uh had other
years where he was ranked a little bit better. He
(19:47):
giveing some more efforts. So that's my biggest thing. As
long as you give effort. Look, we left some things
to be desired with shak is a defender. You thought
Shaq could be a better defender, better rebounder, blockmore shots.
You know some Alan Iverson didn't really play that. He
got stills because the fast, but he didn't play great defense.
It happens with some guys where they're just not gonna
be the best defenders. As long as you care, as
long as you're making effort, I'm okay with it. If
(20:08):
you're that dominant, that unique on the offensive end. Last point,
because Magic Johnson, let's not act like he was Kawhi Leonard.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Let's not actly he was Bruce Bowen himself.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
You know, he wasn't Scottie Pippen on the defensive end,
and Larry Bird, but they cared, they gave effort, and
they were that dominant on the other end that they
kind of made up for those sins.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
That's my biggest point. Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
You're not gonna be everything that you know all around
in all world on both ends. That's why when you
talking about Michael Jordan, some of the stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
He's scary.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
It's scary because he was a very good defense MVP
and right and stuff like that, which you just don't
see averaged over thirty points in a postseason like like
the Whenever people just talk about Michael Jordan, they think
it's just because he was six and.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Oh, you just haven't watched him or done your research.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And Iron Poe, I tell people go back and watch
a good fight to ten to fifteen minutes of you
once a year, just to remind because you know, we
all can be creatures of the moment, a prisoner's of
the moment has to say, and just you know, I'll
look at this every now and again.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Go remind YOURSELFLF exactly.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
And as a guy was covering the NBA back then,
I was fortunate because I was sitting there and I
think I told you this before. That's when David Stewot's commissioner,
and he brought all the writers from upstairs and put
us down court side so we could take in the game.
We could hear the players talking, we could write about
those things and the rivalries and you know what I mean.
(21:32):
And I'll give them credit for that, because you can
tell a story better when you're up close and you
can hear all those things, whereas if you're up top
you can't tell what Bird said in that moment or whatever.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Yes, it was a big deal. But anyway, I think.
Speaker 5 (21:55):
When you look at so, I don't expect the Joker
to be all world on everything, but it's hard to
not think he's not the best player because he easily.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Could have won that MVP. That MB win. It was
a drum beat.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
It was a drum beat against him, and he's still
you know, and he didn't win it, but that was
because of that drum beat. Perkins was a big part
of that and talking down about you can't give him
another MVP, hasn't won a championship, and then of course
he went won the championship that off season, and now
you're looking at this year, which is better than any
of his MVP seasons. And then he puts up a
(22:29):
thirty twenty twenty game, which is never never an EVA,
never been done before. So when you add all those
things together, how is he not And if it's not.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Him, who is it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Well, I mean the best. So that's again that's where
it gets weird. We all agree he's the best player.
Does that mean he's the MVP for some people. Know,
that's where it gets weird, right, best player and he
just come up with award who's the best player at
the NBA? The best player of war goes to period.
Just call it the best player because so many years
Lebron was the best player for the MVP was Derrick
Gross was the best player for a few years, but
(23:01):
it was Steve Nash or you know, because that's where
it gets confusing. Some people vote, I'm giving the MVP
to the voyal value of player because they're the best.
Some people vote, well, it's based on their team and
if that person, if you subtract them from that team.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
See, I think I think that it's just changed because
everybody thinks everybody should win stuff and that I don't.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
I don't have.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
I don't think you need to. The MVP shouldn't change.
It should just be the best player. Uh, the best
player in the league. You know what I mean. But
I'm with you, but no, we don't call it that.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
It's no.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
But if you took him off this team or then
he doesn't have for the help. Sometimes can it just
be the best player the league? Was Michael Jordan period.
But that's just eight nine times, maybe more. But I'm
just saying anyone he only got five MP's Rob g
you had a question.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, So to go back to you guys, your original
point about yogis because the MVP is a whole different
ball of act. We could talk about that all show
if we wanted to. But Magic Johnson said at the
beginning of that clip and early on in the podcast,
you know, Nikola Jokic is just so good. He's one
of the all time greats. And there's already that's the
way he's starting. He's that good of a player. He's
gonna have that kind of hardware. The question, though, is
(24:06):
because Magic says so when you guys said so, he's
also a defensive liability. So when we're having that hypothetical
conversation twenty years from now, like, hey, the greatest players
of all time, can Jokich, even with his offensive capabilities
and all the accolades he's gonna have, can he be
seriously considered amongst the top five or ten players? Ever,
(24:27):
if he's acknowledged of being a turnstile on the other end.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
I think I say no, just off the surface of that.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
But e would have to have such numbers and demid
like nine MVPs.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
You know what I mean, something something that's just rob
g and not. He didn't.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
He wasn't the first to have a thirty twenty game.
He had a forty thirty thirty game or.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Something, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
It would have to be something of that ilk to
what you'll be like, Okay, I know the defense will thing.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Dude, this guy could not. Yeah, wim be there. He's
supposed to be there. He was supposed to be that.
This dude demolished the league. He won.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
He wound up winning three early m vps and then
he won five in a row like something like that.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Is because with the closest comp be like Larry Bird. Yeah,
that's that's there is like a great defender. Now he's
still viewed as one of the top good to reach
that same trajectory.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I say yes.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
But the challenge while he's going to be hard to
crack it because when you start listening, first of all,
everybody always says somebody, Steph Curry's to up ten, and
you gotta relax because once you start naming and that
top ten, there's thirty five people. Yeah, right, exactly because
it gets crazy. But if you look at let's just
say a roundabouts top ten, so Jordan clearly right, you're
not going there both great on both ends. You start
(25:47):
looking at the top ten Rogie. That's one of the
things they do have in their factor. If you want
to put Tim Duncan in there, we know that you
want to put Kobe in it. We know that Lebron
in there. We know that Cam Olajuan, we know that.
So like he started to get a lot of the
guys that you will play Bill Russell if you want
to put him in there. Literally that was his best
part was the defense. A lot of those guys are
known for being on both sides of the ball, so
(26:09):
it would be hard to knock out one of those.
Like is he better than Nikim Olajuwan stats? Maybe yeah,
but like I don't know because the last point I'll make,
he has the benefit. And I always love hearing when
they talk about this. So Kim always said, man, he
should talk to Kenny Smith. He who say, Kenny, you
have it easy. Kenny Wild say why why, big man?
He would say, because you only got a once every
few nights you got to go up against somebody every
(26:30):
night I'm going up against David Robinson, Shack Alonzo morning
to ken Ba Matombo like he was going up you know,
just doing gewing like night after night Rick Smith's he's
Biggs night after night, really talented bigs and Jokis does
have advantage and he doesn't have to what is it
and be is out He's hardly plays off the top
(26:52):
of your neck, off top of your ad AD's always hurt.
But here's the thing, though, who is he going up
against night and night out? And I'm not taking a
he's only beaten who's in front. But I'm saying that
was one thing you might but but to me that
would be a nitpick. And that's fair.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
But the other part is he's destroyed all the like
what he's supposed to do, no but but with nobody there,
and when he has played some of these guys, he
still has played, you know what I mean, It's not like, okay,
when he plays when there's when there's somebody there, he
says his numbers are bad.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
That's not the case.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
And that and that's the only way you could look
at it, because it's not fair to say you can't
count him.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I mean We know this.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Will Chamberlain when he was playing in the league and
dominated to change all the rules because he was the
biggest guy there right nobody they couldn't guard him.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
They couldn't go there to change the rules to stop him.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
No, that, without a doubt. You couldn't stand in the paint.
You couldn't. You couldn't do this, can do that. But
that's what my last j played his whole college comurity.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
He couldn't been dunk in college.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Imagine coming down and lay on a fast break really
hard there. Just drop it David Thompson, you have to
drop it in. David Thompson was Michael Jordan's favorite player.
Used to dunk Oliver. He used to jump out of
the gym. He would have to just throw it in.
He couldn't do it.
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to check us out live every weekday from
four to seven pm Pacific seven to ten pm Eastern
on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The
Odd Couple on Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream
us every day on the iHeartRadio by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You're listening to the best of the Odd Couple.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Big story today in the NFL, all these teams are
submitting their proposals for rule changes. One of them that
we've talked about for weeks now is the Green Bay
Packers want to get rid of the Push Push. They've
now submitted their third different reason as to why they
want to get rid of it, so shows you that
they really don't like that one.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
It's not like when you're trying to go out. Maybe okay,
here go another reason.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
But for the purposes of this show, the Destroit Lion
to have caused many of fights here on The Odd
Couple submitted two of them that people like Rob Parker
think seem pretty nefarious. Number One, they are submitting a
proposal that would eliminate the automatic first down that comes
within illegal contact or defensive holding penalty. Seems innocuous enough
(01:06):
until you see that the Lions have by far the
most defensive holding penalties over the last two years.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
The NFL owners, they're going to say, Okay, yeah, right, Lions,
I mean, talk about going in there with something that
you're the biggest culprit of and have you know cost
them in situations.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
No, it's not gonna happen. Go ahead, and number ten
ready to jump on them. Number two, this is the
biggest one.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
This is one that could sent shockwave not only through
the NFC but through the NFL altogether. They want to
change the NFL playoff seating that would lose regular season
records as a way to determine rank He's as opposed
to division winners right now.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
You have a situation where if you win the division, you're.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Automatically getting a home field, You're automatically going to be
seen a certain point, which is why some people don't
like it, because gotta seemed like Tapa Bay Buccaneers, who
win the terrible NFC South every year, and the Panthers, right,
and they're ranked higher in the playoff seeding than a
team like last year the Minnesota Vikis who won fourteen games.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Rob Parker what are your thoughts on these.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Rule changes from the Detroit Lions.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
This is just a precursor to the Lions telling you
they're gonna fall off. They're trying to head off the
wagons and trying to figure out, how can we help
ourselves when we know we're not gonna go over there.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Last year fifteen and two, fifteen and two again, how
that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
They're not gonna have the number one seed in the NFC,
so they're trying to protect themselves so that they're not
a fifth seed or a sixth seed and have to
go on the road or even if I think they're
not gonna make the playoffs. But that's neither here nor there.
But this sounds like belly achin. You had a game, right,
what a chance to get to to beat the Washington
(02:56):
Commanders in your own building as a number one seed,
you have to go to the NFC Championship game and
maybe get to the Super Bowl finally, and they wet
the bed against the rookie quarterback. Your quarterback turned to
goo in the biggest moment of the season, and now
you're worried about all these other things. We already know
(03:16):
you lost your two coordinators. Okay, we know that a
lot of people have left and a lot of things
are going to change. Is not going to be the
same thing that we've seen the last couple of years,
and it just it doesn't feel good because it shouldn't matter.
Teams that have been the sixth seed. We talked about it.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Eli Manning was never the number one seed. They won
two super Bowls. When the Packers won.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
With Aaron Rodgers sixth seed, they didn't go on the
road the stealer fifth sixth seed? Do you know what
I'm saying? Like, if you're good, it doesn't matter. You
could go on the road and win a couple of games.
So I just think that to go out there and
put this out there, just why are you and the
other one with the defensive first down when they're the
biggest culprit of it, It would be impressive if they were
(03:58):
last in the league and they were asked, can for that?
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Do you understand what I'm saying? So that's just that
one you just reference. That was them just saying, hey,
why not let's just go for it, Let's give it
a shot. What benefits us? Because I think the numbers
were they had eight, they were the closest to them.
Second was eight penalties behind. So clearly they lead the
league that in those defensive penalties. And that was just saying, hey,
this is something we do. We play defense aggressively. Let's
(04:22):
see if we can get something in our favor.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
The second one, going back to the seating, that would
actually makes sense. I understand why they would propose that one.
I don't agree with it, but I would understand why
they propose it because on paper, it does make sense.
If you're the Vikings, you sit there fourteen and three
and now all of a sudden you got to play
a road game. That is kind of crazy to be
fourteen and three and one the road. So that wouldn't
(04:45):
logically make sense, but it does. What I'm saying, I
don't agree with it, is what I'm saying. I get
the offering of the idea. I don't don't have team
that many teams with that kind of record, But of
course house what made it crazy. NFC North went crazy,
but because they played the AFC South or whatever, and
they got fat off of those bad teams.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
So that's a rare situation. We have three teams that
win twelve games or more.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, I don't even makes sense, right, And that's why
I said, I see why you would. Hey, we're throwing
stuff out. Let's see what sticks, right, That's what they're doing.
That's why the Packers are throwing out the touch push
over and over and over again, and teams probably put
out some other ones that we would go, oh, that's
a head scratcher. I actually get it, but I'm still
with it, as in, I'm with the division leaders getting
that spot in the playoffs because that ultimately is.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Priority number one.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
When you hear a team, hey, you guys are good, Eagles,
you want to repeat the super Bowl? Or hey, Lions,
you're good super Bowl to the first thing they say
is our job is to win what our division?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Right, win our division.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Then we'll continue to see how good we off see
if we can win the number one seed and move on.
They unfortunately try to win the super Bowl. But thing
number one is win your division. So I'm still comfortable
with that being the way the game is played.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
But I ain't mad at them. That's what.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Listen, we know about what thirty about two is two
maybe three teams of the thirty two and the things
they've offered. I'm sure some wild and crazy stuff in there.
The defensive one the penalties is laughing. That was them
to say, hey, this is strictly for us, in favor
of us, because this is how we play defense. But
the step back is still crazy to me that you
(06:19):
think that. I'm not saying they went in fifteen and two.
Maybe they go twelve and five or thirteen and four,
but the idea that it's a major step back, I
don't see that to the point of not making the
postseason when all.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Their players are still there.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
That's the part of me I get if they lost
some I'll give I'll give you Hutchinson's back, but I'll
give you an example the Eagles.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
The Eagles went to the Super Bowl, lost both of
their coordinators, started out great and then tanked the end
of the year right and didn't have didn't finish the
year great, And then people were like, what happened to
the Eagles? And I thought that had a lot to
do with losing both coordinators. I think the same thing
can happen because there's a new adjustment. Periods think it's
outrageous and teams all the time they make the play.
(07:03):
Teams go to the Super Bowl at and then and
then they don't make the playoffs the next year.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
But this team.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Usually those teams lose a lot of big name players
because you got good and all of a sudden, guys
need to get paid, Guys need to doe. I'm not
happy with my role because starting this team, I totally
get what you're saying. But here this team that's all
like literally all the key components are there. In fact,
some are coming back who we didn't get to see
in their best defensive player, one of the best in
(07:30):
the league.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
But the one part that I think you're not being
honest with yourself is the schedule that they had a
year ago, which they played a lot of bad teams.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
They rolled up the scoring. People like, go look at
those games that agree.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
The only thing I will say that their schedule this year,
it ain't the schedule that.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And the same thing applies that some of those teams
ain't the same teams they were this year. And the
other thing is they had the biggest point differential because
they were smashing everybody good teams, bad teams. They were
smacking them up. No, but they you beat who's in
front of you. They did that and they also beat
the good teams to You don't go fifteen and two
only beating when you beat but you beat the Vikings twice,
(08:09):
you beat the Packers, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
So, but go look at those teams in the AFC
South that they killed. I mean, I'm just saying, but.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I'm saying that was like four games. No, it's more
than that. That was four teams. Go look at four games, right,
I had one of.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
The weakest schedules. Last sack everybody. Okay, but they're not
going to do it. I can see them nine and eight.
The Bears are going to be better as it should be.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
We'll see, We'll see where the Vikings will be able
to get a split. I'm talking about get a split
with the lines, which I believe they will, and the.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Packers will be able to get away. They take away
the Viking hold on. The Vikings had JJ McCarthy, who
had an incredible season. I mean, uh, Sam, Sam Darnold.
Now they had JJ who ain't throwing one pass in
the NFL, and now they got to be getna split.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
Yeah, because because uh did you say that in Washington
with a rookie water back.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
No, he was great. Oh, no, no, no, But did
he But I'm saying, how did the regrets?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
No?
Speaker 4 (09:06):
No, how did they regrets? How did he beat the Lions?
Speaker 5 (09:09):
A rookie quarterback going into Detroit for for a chance
to go to the NFC Championship game.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
But I'm talking about but you don't know because I'm
just saying you already have him winning one. I'm like, wow,
we ain't game.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I said a split. I didn't say they were gonna
sweep the series. They're not gonna get They're not gonna sweep.
They swept him with a team that went fourteen to three.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And did you see? I saw what he did. But
I'm saying Sam darn to play better than Sam Donald.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
And that quarterback who laid an egg against the Lions
isn't even there anymore because it was in the red
zone four times in the first.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Half and couldn't put it in. He lost to him twice.
I'm just talking about that.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Lemon no no, no, Louisiana Rubb yeah, and Korean Barbecue
talking about I was so sure that you were going
to the super Bowl this year, and all your life
you would come in it.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Every day and be like, oh, lion one again. What
was that song on a lion?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, and then all of a sudden, when it came
to the biggest game of the ear, I ain't hear
a word.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
From him because that keeps it real. Okay, they lost,
they lost, right, That's what it was. Kelvin.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
There is a conversation that the Morris, one of the
Morris brothers, one of the Morris twins, was having on
a podcast talking about how Daryl Morey is pretty much
ruining the seventy six ers.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Organization and specifically ruin rooming.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
You're right like and specifically the use of AI and
analytics and not just AI. Rob Allen Iverson was in
the front off well they should be, and everybody's met
that little statue he got, the little practice facility one.
It was like six inches everything A hold on, This
is AI. But he was talking about him using artificial intelligence.
(10:55):
The crazy part is Rob when it came to like
personnel moves, so I get it all right, Hey, how can.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
We run an offense better? Can we be more efficient.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Okay, crunching in numbers, okay, fine, whatever, I get it.
It was involving personnel moves. That's what made it crazy.
And he started to question, is this why you didn't
want to sign James Harden after you promise him you
would and then you backtracked, And that's why James Harden
said he's a liar and I'll never play with any
organizations he's in. Is this why you went and got
a Paul George who's always injury prone, and then you said,
(11:25):
you know, will be a great idea. Let's pairing with
Joe LMB who's always injured. Terrible idea. And so he
just goes on to question and to me, is a
larger conversation that I'd I'd love to have and you
knowing all sports too, to me, I think there sometimes
we forget the balance between information, knowledge, technology, the eye
(11:46):
test to just knowing the game, the feel of the
game as well when we talk about that and the aesthetics, right,
don't forget this is entertainment. People want to be enjoyed.
They want to like what they see when they watch you,
you know X sports.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
We've seen that in the NBA with all the threes,
and you get all the blowouts. When you have a
bad shooting night of threes. Nobody wants to see all threes.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
It's just not just don't want to see.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Baseball was in a bad place a few years ago
with the home that's it like there was no action,
nobody was on the.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Base by nobody's nothing. Now they made the changes.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Remember the analytics was so good that that guys who
were three hundred hitters all of a sudden but batt
in two twenty because they would move a field the
third basement would be in right field, right the shift
and and take away all their hits.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
They weren't getting on base. It was like ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And then when you sit next to guys, you know,
obviously when I do the Dodger stuff, sitting next to
Nomar j Harre and Adrian Gonzalez and these guys, you
want to see them lose their minds. Show them a shift,
a whole open gap and they're like, dude, you can't
hit in that. And it's because the last you know, decades,
so these young hitters but but not trained.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
They're like, but here's the other thing too, And I
hear what they're saying, but that's not what we wan.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
That's not the spirit of the game. That's not you
know what I mean, They're not. They don't deny that
because because.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
I'm saying, if my bit, if Aaron Judges up and
they have everybody on the left side, I really want
Aaron Judge to dribble a single through first through first bate.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
That's not what I want Aaron Judge to you know what.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I'm saying, the spirit of the game. They completely get
that's your point. In the middle of it being a rule,
right because now it's it's banned, But in the middle
of it being a rule, you should be able to
take advantage of it. It's like, if you play basketball
and I'm giving you the left, you should.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Be confident, okay and go left. I can play.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
But if the game I agree with you, we went
to that and everybody just dribbled the ball.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
If there were a left handed hitter and everybody was
on the.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Right side and set all down the third bait, you
would be like And so that's my point with analytics,
it starts to hurt the game. And I think sometimes
these leagues rob forget about this as much as it's
big money, whether it be gambling, whether it be the
TV deals, whether it be all that. Also, it's entertainment.
(13:58):
Sometimes we forget sports entertainment. We act like it's life
or death. And what I mean by that is we
want to be entertained. And when you start putting analytics
in what happened in the NFL rob They're throwing four
or five hundred yards every game. You got everybody throwing
four or five thousand yards like it was nothing, a
bunch of touchdowns. Defense was getting kicked out. Now you're
starting to see what running backs matter again. You're starting
(14:19):
to see what this year. We remember the first ten
weeks we kept talking about it, defenses would have gotten
better and the scoring was down. Yards per game were
down because defenses came back. We like to see a
little defense. We like to see some running mixing it up.
And I think these leagues get so caught up in
analytics and trying to, you know, be the riddler and
figure it all out, that they forget sometimes it's a
feel of a game. Sometimes, Hey, the advantage to night
(14:42):
is just going down low. I don't care what the
analytics are. The advantage tonight is, I know on paper
says you should be pitching only three innings because no, no.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
You're on fire tonight, right, you're going six. Well, we
saw that.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Remember that was the day that they took out who
was had to know, had to know had a perfect game,
Clayton kershot game on eighty pitches, and they took him
out of the game. And I'm like, dude, like like
he's unhit, Like you can't do that, Like, let let
him walk, somebody, let him get a hit, then you
take him out. Well, how do you take somebody out
(15:13):
of a perfect game with eighty pitches going into.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
The eight and that robs his rob that robs us
of Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
So that was the other thing that I talked about,
like the analytics have done that, taking us out of
things that we should be at the ballpark trying to.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Remember that night. I was there when Curtin Kershaw through
a perfect game. Remember that night I.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Was It doesn't happen all the time.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
I was there when David Well threw one for the
Yankees against the Twins on a Sunday afternoon at Yankee Stadium.
And I've been covering baseball for thirty nine years. That's
the only perfect game I've ever seen. Thirty nine years
I've been going out to the ballpark, and that's the
only perfect game I ever saw.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
After his seventy ninety too, like all right, hey, David,
here you go, give me the ball. You had a
good one, you know what I mean. So they gotta
they gotta come on. I understand new technology, AI and
all that, but AI may I. Sometimes you just got
a feeling. Sometimes it's working. Sometimes you say, man, I'm
a coach and I'm gonna sit back. I'm not gonna
pull this guy out the game who has say, sixty
five points in an NBA game, Rob, because analytics say
(16:11):
if I keep him minutes and proget he he's on
fire tonight. I'm gonna give the fans something to see.
Let me see if he can go for seventy, you
know what I mean. I'm gonnaee if he can go
for eighty. Sometimes we just want to see that, And
I think they rob us of those moments when they
get become all these nerds and engineers and all that, like,
let us enjoy the game sometimes.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So be sure to catch live editions of the Odd
Couple with Rob Parker and kelvin Washington weekdays at seven
pm Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Magic Johnson was on Byron Scott's Fast Break podcast Byron Scott,
Friend of the Show, and he was talking about the
new wave of NBA players and in the conversation, he
explained why he believes that Nikolae Jokic, two time MVP
runner up or possible winning this year as well, is
easily the best player in basketball.
Speaker 6 (16:58):
Heay listen best playing basketball right now and he reads
situations and defense as well. His basketball IQ is off
the charge and then he beats you because he's off rhythm.
He's not one of the best yet, but he is
up there. And the only thing he can't do like
Kareem could do is dominate on both ends. Right That's
(17:21):
what's missing for him because he's not a big shot blocker.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Defensively, he's a little bit. Yeah, to a certain.
Speaker 6 (17:29):
Extent, he's the best player in the league.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
He is the best player in the league.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And the biggest difference is he absolutely is not a
great defender, without a doubt. You know, you can look
at some of the best players in the league. Kobe
had his years, great on both ends. Lebron had his
years obviously both great on both ends. You look at
Giannis had a couple of years. You could argue not
nearly like it used to be.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Not right.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
My biggest thing you don't have to be Kawhi, Leonard
Draymon Green, Ben Wallace. All I asked for Rob is ever, Yeah,
defense defenses. All I asked, can you at least be
putting up an effort and can you at least show
me that you care. Steph Curry a lot of people, Oh,
he's not a great defender, You're right. But one thing
I give him credit for, and you know I've been
(18:13):
critical love him for a while, is that he at
least gives effort on the defensive end.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
He at least tries.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Again, he's not Gary Payton, you know, in his prime,
but he gives efforts.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
So for me, Gary Payton was the glove, then Steph
is the mint. At least he's covering up something, right.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
My biggest issue is at times we've seen Luca Bruh,
you're not even given effort, like you're not right.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
These are big NBA players you're gonna be, and we've
seen that with Lebron. And in this later stage of
his career where Lebron we've even seen some players if
you remember who wasn't who pushed Lebron towards his playing.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Who is that like, dude? Because serious.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Like when you play ball, anybody who's played, I don't
care if it's Ymca, You've pushed the player, right and
Lebron be and Lebron is one of the moments you
push and you go they I just pushed Lebron on
national team. Oh my gosh, but effort and that's been
an issue with Luca And now let me say this, yeah, yeah,
well he'll look at somebody else.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Ain't exactly like Lebron, look over and go like you.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Didn't that's your god, dude, that was your man who
got an easy leap. But you should have known he
was coming down the lane. Lebron, just say my bad.
Brou So, that's my biggest point. I think you can
absolutely be the best player. I think is the best
player in the NBA. And is he the greatest defender.
He's actually taking a step back. They had on the
notes that you know he's a he's uh had other
years where he was ranked a little bit better. He
(19:47):
giveing some more efforts. So that's my biggest thing. As
long as you give effort. Look, we left some things
to be desired with shak is a defender. You thought
Shaq could be a better defender, better rebounder, blockmore shots.
You know some Alan Iverson didn't really play that. He
got stills because the fast, but he didn't play great defense.
It happens with some guys where they're just not gonna
be the best defenders. As long as you care, as
long as you're making effort, I'm okay with it. If
(20:08):
you're that dominant, that unique on the offensive end. Last point,
because Magic Johnson, let's not act like he was Kawhi Leonard.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Let's not actly he was Bruce Bowen himself.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
You know, he wasn't Scottie Pippen on the defensive end,
and Larry Bird, but they cared, they gave effort, and
they were that dominant on the other end that they
kind of made up for those sins.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
That's my biggest point. Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
You're not gonna be everything that you know all around
in all world on both ends. That's why when you
talking about Michael Jordan, some of the stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
He's scary.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
It's scary because he was a very good defense MVP
and right and stuff like that, which you just don't
see averaged over thirty points in a postseason like like
the Whenever people just talk about Michael Jordan, they think
it's just because he was six and.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Oh, you just haven't watched him or done your research.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And Iron Poe, I tell people go back and watch
a good fight to ten to fifteen minutes of you
once a year, just to remind because you know, we
all can be creatures of the moment, a prisoner's of
the moment has to say, and just you know, I'll
look at this every now and again.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Go remind YOURSELFLF exactly.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
And as a guy was covering the NBA back then,
I was fortunate because I was sitting there and I
think I told you this before. That's when David Stewot's commissioner,
and he brought all the writers from upstairs and put
us down court side so we could take in the game.
We could hear the players talking, we could write about
those things and the rivalries and you know what I mean.
(21:32):
And I'll give them credit for that, because you can
tell a story better when you're up close and you
can hear all those things, whereas if you're up top
you can't tell what Bird said in that moment or whatever.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Yes, it was a big deal. But anyway, I think.
Speaker 5 (21:55):
When you look at so, I don't expect the Joker
to be all world on everything, but it's hard to
not think he's not the best player because he easily.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Could have won that MVP. That MB win. It was
a drum beat.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
It was a drum beat against him, and he's still
you know, and he didn't win it, but that was
because of that drum beat. Perkins was a big part
of that and talking down about you can't give him
another MVP, hasn't won a championship, and then of course
he went won the championship that off season, and now
you're looking at this year, which is better than any
of his MVP seasons. And then he puts up a
(22:29):
thirty twenty twenty game, which is never never an EVA,
never been done before. So when you add all those
things together, how is he not And if it's not.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Him, who is it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Well, I mean the best. So that's again that's where
it gets weird. We all agree he's the best player.
Does that mean he's the MVP for some people. Know,
that's where it gets weird, right, best player and he
just come up with award who's the best player at
the NBA? The best player of war goes to period.
Just call it the best player because so many years
Lebron was the best player for the MVP was Derrick
Gross was the best player for a few years, but
(23:01):
it was Steve Nash or you know, because that's where
it gets confusing. Some people vote, I'm giving the MVP
to the voyal value of player because they're the best.
Some people vote, well, it's based on their team and
if that person, if you subtract them from that team.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
See, I think I think that it's just changed because
everybody thinks everybody should win stuff and that I don't.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
I don't have.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
I don't think you need to. The MVP shouldn't change.
It should just be the best player. Uh, the best
player in the league. You know what I mean. But
I'm with you, but no, we don't call it that.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
It's no.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
But if you took him off this team or then
he doesn't have for the help. Sometimes can it just
be the best player the league? Was Michael Jordan period.
But that's just eight nine times, maybe more. But I'm
just saying anyone he only got five MP's Rob g
you had a question.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, So to go back to you guys, your original
point about yogis because the MVP is a whole different
ball of act. We could talk about that all show
if we wanted to. But Magic Johnson said at the
beginning of that clip and early on in the podcast,
you know, Nikola Jokic is just so good. He's one
of the all time greats. And there's already that's the
way he's starting. He's that good of a player. He's
gonna have that kind of hardware. The question, though, is
(24:06):
because Magic says so when you guys said so, he's
also a defensive liability. So when we're having that hypothetical
conversation twenty years from now, like, hey, the greatest players
of all time, can Jokich, even with his offensive capabilities
and all the accolades he's gonna have, can he be
seriously considered amongst the top five or ten players? Ever,
(24:27):
if he's acknowledged of being a turnstile on the other end.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
I think I say no, just off the surface of that.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
But e would have to have such numbers and demid
like nine MVPs.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
You know what I mean, something something that's just rob
g and not. He didn't.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
He wasn't the first to have a thirty twenty game.
He had a forty thirty thirty game or.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Something, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
It would have to be something of that ilk to
what you'll be like, Okay, I know the defense will thing.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Dude, this guy could not. Yeah, wim be there. He's
supposed to be there. He was supposed to be that.
This dude demolished the league. He won.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
He wound up winning three early m vps and then
he won five in a row like something like that.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Is because with the closest comp be like Larry Bird. Yeah,
that's that's there is like a great defender. Now he's
still viewed as one of the top good to reach
that same trajectory.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I say yes.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
But the challenge while he's going to be hard to
crack it because when you start listening, first of all,
everybody always says somebody, Steph Curry's to up ten, and
you gotta relax because once you start naming and that
top ten, there's thirty five people. Yeah, right, exactly because
it gets crazy. But if you look at let's just
say a roundabouts top ten, so Jordan clearly right, you're
not going there both great on both ends. You start
(25:47):
looking at the top ten Rogie. That's one of the
things they do have in their factor. If you want
to put Tim Duncan in there, we know that you
want to put Kobe in it. We know that Lebron
in there. We know that Cam Olajuan, we know that.
So like he started to get a lot of the
guys that you will play Bill Russell if you want
to put him in there. Literally that was his best
part was the defense. A lot of those guys are
known for being on both sides of the ball, so
(26:09):
it would be hard to knock out one of those.
Like is he better than Nikim Olajuwan stats? Maybe yeah,
but like I don't know because the last point I'll make,
he has the benefit. And I always love hearing when
they talk about this. So Kim always said, man, he
should talk to Kenny Smith. He who say, Kenny, you
have it easy. Kenny Wild say why why, big man?
He would say, because you only got a once every
few nights you got to go up against somebody every
(26:30):
night I'm going up against David Robinson, Shack Alonzo morning
to ken Ba Matombo like he was going up you know,
just doing gewing like night after night Rick Smith's he's
Biggs night after night, really talented bigs and Jokis does
have advantage and he doesn't have to what is it
and be is out He's hardly plays off the top
(26:52):
of your neck, off top of your ad AD's always hurt.
But here's the thing, though, who is he going up
against night and night out? And I'm not taking a
he's only beaten who's in front. But I'm saying that
was one thing you might but but to me that
would be a nitpick. And that's fair.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
But the other part is he's destroyed all the like
what he's supposed to do, no but but with nobody there,
and when he has played some of these guys, he
still has played, you know what I mean, It's not like, okay,
when he plays when there's when there's somebody there, he
says his numbers are bad.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
That's not the case.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
And that and that's the only way you could look
at it, because it's not fair to say you can't
count him.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I mean We know this.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Will Chamberlain when he was playing in the league and
dominated to change all the rules because he was the
biggest guy there right nobody they couldn't guard him.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
They couldn't go there to change the rules to stop him.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
No, that, without a doubt. You couldn't stand in the paint.
You couldn't. You couldn't do this, can do that. But
that's what my last j played his whole college comurity.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
He couldn't been dunk in college.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Imagine coming down and lay on a fast break really
hard there. Just drop it David Thompson, you have to
drop it in. David Thompson was Michael Jordan's favorite player.
Used to dunk Oliver. He used to jump out of
the gym. He would have to just throw it in.
He couldn't do it.
Hosts And Creators
kelvin washington
Rob Parker
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