March 20, 2025 • 30 mins
Rob and Kelvin debate whether day one of the NCAA Tournament is a better sports day the MLB Opening Day and argue whether the Michigan Fab Five can be considered iconic despite never actually winning a national championship. Plus, former Michigan Fab Five member Jimmy King swings by to discuss why his team is so iconic even though they never won a national championship, why he wishes the Fab Five played in the NIL era of college basketball, what makes March Madness so special and much more!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
You're listening to the best of the Odd Couple.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Day one of the tournament. Everybody says it's the greatest.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Dast boys of the year.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Gigga, Yes, overblown, overdone, And I'll say this, it's even
worse now than it was before. Okay, maybe you might
have had some bit of a case when we used
to know who the players were and we actually follow
college basketball. Now, there's no way on God's green Earth
(00:54):
you could call this the greatest day in sports. Most
people don't watch college basketball. Most people couldn't identify more
than two players or two or three players. So you're
not attached to anybody. And here's the biggest one. We
used to work together. We used to come into work.
(01:15):
There was office pools and all that. People are working remotely,
they are at home. It ain't the same. I'm sorry, America,
when you talk about the workforce before COVID, everybody went
to work. Everybody was handing out the sheets, fill out
their sheet, the brackets, blah blah blah, blah blah. And
I'm sorry. The first day of the tournament, it didn't
(01:39):
move for me. Today, Okay, I was not moved. Doesn't
mean I won't watch partake and the games are on
or But the greatest day in sports the first day
of and today you know McNee State have the upset,
but there's nothing else going on that would move you.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I'm just saying it's early.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
If you ask me the greatest day in sports, I say,
without question, it's opening day in Major League Baseball. And
I know the Dodgers and the Cubs opened up in Japan,
and that's an anomaly, and every once in a while
they do something like that. I worked in some of
the greatest baseball towns in America, and you know this.
(02:22):
It's a holiday in Detroit, it's a holiday in Cincinnati,
it's a holiday in New York, it's a holiday in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I'm dead serious, and it means a lot to people.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Of course, it's the passage of the right of passage
of spring too, where people who have been buried in
on the East Coast, and in these places they look
forward to the opening day spring is here in baseball.
So if I had to pick the best day of
any sport, to me, it's still Major League Baseball over
(02:58):
Day one of the NCAA Tournament.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Dard Luther Vandrols rolling Ron is great. Right now, you way,
you just disrespected one shining moment. You had your one
shining moment. Let me tell you why I disagree baseball.
But in day obviously it's a it's a beautiful day.
You got all these daytime games and ballparks look beautiful.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
But the only reason, a couple of reasons why I disagree.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
One of your better points when you talked about March
madness is I will agree that the it was almost
better in a sense when it was pre electronic of
your jobs handing out papers, or your college dorm rooms,
everybody handing out the brackets, that that natural having to
write it in. I do admit that felt a little better.
But here's why I disagree with you. Baseball is for
(03:43):
baseball fans, where I think March madness is even casual fans.
Because to your point, I don't know McNee State, I
don't know uh you know VCU.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I don't know Wafford. I don't know these schools.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
But I'm watching, and I think you get a lot
of people men, women, young, old who are watching because
it's it's to be to participate in this. It's something
I got my bracket. I'm shooting off tweets, I'm shooting
off text messages, and I'm doing it all day.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
You'd literally wake up in the morning there's games.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Please you did not send out tweets about today's games.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Stop it.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
People brackets today, they send out their brackets. No, who
does that? People are talking about the games? Really, what
game was it to talk about? As we can let
them let me finish. As we continue to have amazing
performances or close games or buzzer beaters or or uh
when we get upsets, that's when all this stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Did you see that?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
You see the magical moments? So for me, opening day
is a is a great day. But I think March
Madness appeals to many more people, and it's also a
game more participatory. You're into it, You're invested in your bracket,
You're invested in these storylines. You know they always find
this guy's that had a heart and now he's back
with this This kid lost two fingers, but he's out
(05:04):
here playing right now. And there's always these storylines they
build up the show. So I'm not gonna obviously this
opening day it's a beautiful day. I just think this
one has a little bit more of a peal. It's
an all day thing, and again you get to participate
because you have your bracket.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
So for me, that's the answer. They're not in a landslide.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
But I just think in March Madness the start of it,
it's just a happy, go lucky day. Everybody's excited and
everybody again is participating, So it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
I think you're living in the past and you got
still you're still like fantasizing or romanticizing is the right
word about what it used to be when we actually
knew and Michigan in the Fab five and they have
players that we knew, and I think that there was
a moment back then when Michael Jordan was in college
and all these guys were in college and they played
for these schools and we knew that they were playing.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I don't think that and back then it was and
I said this to you the other day.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Theis Monday in April used to be the greatest sports
day because that was the Cincinnati Reds opened up every
major league season, the only game to be played at
two o'clock in the afternoon, and then the NCAA Men's
Basketball Championship was that night. That used to be great
for me. I just can't this. College basketball does not
(06:21):
move the needle the same way that you're the college
basketball I was talking about.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
It was that side of the eighties nineties. There's no
denying that.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
But I don't know what really is the eighties nineties
and anything in life right. TV doesn't hit the same
big shows, don't hit the same movies. When's the last
time you had to race to the movie theater. Nothing
hits the same now because we're inundated with so much,
we have so much going on with our phones, we
get stuff, we can get it how we wanted. They're streaming,
so nothing really hits like the era when you were
most fond of it. I agree with that, but I
(06:49):
still think March Madness matters to a lot of people.
I still think it's just a fun day to just
watch games. The teams you don't know many games you
watched today?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, don't ask me.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I literally watched ninety percent of it because I'm always around,
you know, I'm working TV, so it's TV's.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I'm here with you saying did you stop to watch
any games? I promise you got home.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
My daughter's they're you know, a little not feeling Graham
sitting there with them, got the their So you're watching. Yeah, okay,
that's serious. I enjoy Remember we did uh, it was
one of our first ones.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Gotta goes. We did the day you shouldn't have to work.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
We did your birthday, we did super Bowl, we did Halloween,
we did March the day, day one of March Madness,
and what was the last one, rob g I can't
remember one more day?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And I said, March Madness.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
That was for me, the day if I could just
sit home, eat wings, watch the games all day.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
That's my kind of I love it. That's just me. Also,
but I think you're partial. Your favorite sports baseball.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
My favorite sports sport is basketball, so that also could
play a role in this.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yeah, but I also I've covered all of that. I'm
not I'm not wrong. I'm not saying you don't know sports.
I'm saying I covered Saint John's when Mark Jackson played.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I'm just saying, what's your favorite sport?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
No baseball?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
So say that cover college back.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I know you covered everything since nineteen eighty six and
eighty seven.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Rob, Okay you can't. It's okay that you love baseball.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
You literally have a podcast, you have an entire website
dedicated to it, you have a Hall of Fame. Vote. Rob,
you love baseball, That's okay, you should. That's your jam.
I'm a hooper and so for me March madness. We
can see what other folks say.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 1 (08:35):
Welcome in Jimmy King to the Odd Couple, Rob and
Kevin on a TV Things Jimmy Michigan Fab five.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
What's up Jimmy? Now? We just arguing. We're going good, Jimmy.
We just arguing like we always do. Man.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
But how big of a day is it for you?
We were just talking about big sports days. You got
Opening Day in baseball. Some people may be say the
Super Bowl is the biggest day. Some people like me
would say it's the opening day of the tournament. What
about you, how do you feel about today?
Speaker 5 (09:02):
Well, anytime that you know, we get a chance to
celebrate or to have a new season or new beginning,
I love it, whether it's baseball, basketball, or football, regardless
of the sport, because really we're you know, we're lucky
to be able to to be able to play and
(09:22):
to celebrate the beginning of the season. It's special for
any sport. So I don't have any particular one, but
I enjoy them all. For instance, like open a day
for baseball, that's that's a great day to go out.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
You know that in Detroit. It's a holiday in Detroit.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
Yeah, it's coded Detroit. But I'm actually in Dallas where
it's nice sun and sunshiny right now. So that's why
I'm really, you know, enjoying the spring break and spring
weather that we're getting right now.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Awesome.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Hey, Jimmy, let's talk about, of course, the Michigan Fab
five and what it means to be a part of
that and how big it was. And the thing that
I always say is, you know, you guys are in
basketball lore for just you know, the group that was there,
what you were almost able to get to. But there's
something there the big shorts all that they're walking around
(10:16):
like rock stars people like were caught up in it
and it was worthy of that, but not being able
to finish the deal or win.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Where does that fit in?
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Because I think that's what stops people from really being
able to put the Fab five where they should be
in basketball? And now did you not win a championship?
All right, and we got that, but you guys, which
is shocking, didn't even win a Big Ten title when
you were together. Why do you think that that's fair
to look at the big the Fab five? Is that
(10:48):
that's just not getting Like if Lebron was in Miami
and they went to four years and they didn't win,
you know, you wouldn't look at it the same way.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
Well, the difference I think is one. It was it's
not professional sports. So the the uh, the long lasting
effect I think it has for fans, particularly UH for
college is one thing and it and it and it
could get brought back up repeatedly around this time for
(11:20):
through March madness. And you know, people I think are
attached to feelings and more to how you made them
feel in those moments. And that's the reason why you know,
I feel like, you know, we're always you know, pushed
to the front because we you know, people remember how
we made them feel in those moments, not necessarily that
(11:41):
we won. Obviously we didn't and and lost in in
in in some you know horrific and you know, terrible
fashion that that also is remembered. But when you're in
it and you're playing it, you know, it's it's you know,
it's it's what you think you're supposed to be doing.
(12:04):
That's what we felt we were supposed to do. We
we were intentional about, you know, changing the aesthetics of
the game and bringing our own flavor and making the
mark in that way as well, not just winning the
Big Ten championship or winning the national championship. You know,
(12:25):
it was it was more to it for us than
just that.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
But but Jimmy, if I were to say the Fab
five success or failure, which one?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Would it be?
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Success? For thirty years? For now, people I still get
called for for appearances, speaking engagements.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
I get all that, But but isn't it about winning?
And I mean it, I'm not trying to be little
the fas I'm not. Of course, I'm not, Jimmy, you
know me for one hundred years.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Of course is always about winning. And but that's why
we were a little different, in a little special in
the senses that we didn't win anything, but we are
still remembered, as you know, people who who changed the game,
who had the opportunity and probably should win. But it
also points to how hard it is to win, how
(13:22):
difficult it is to win, and the best teams don't
always win in college basketball. Winner is a one and
done format.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Jimmy King, our guests on the odd couple, member of
the Fab five Michigan Fat five A right, Jimmy, let
me jump on another side of this. I'm born and
raised in Antarburm, Michigan. So you guys in your prime
doing your thing. I was, give or take ten eleven
twelve years old. Eric Riley lived in my neighborhood. How
about that? So I'm very fond of you, and I
think what I would want to add to this conversation
(13:50):
is nobody remembers who won in two thousand and two.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
You know two thousand and three, there are teams that are.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Nothing about Tom remember you memberable, I think the difference
what you're saying, winning winning matters all.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
But I think, but if they win, it just it's
solidified what they want three guys for.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
But for most but I think that's why we were
a little And that's what I'm adding to this.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah, I think. So this is what I'm saying, Rob.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
There are teams who won, they just won and you go, okay, wow,
Like an Arkansas team won with Carlos Williamson. Does anybody
ever bring up that Arkansas won in like ninety four? No,
And but you bring up the Fab five all the time.
There's documentary, there's books, there's movies, there's probably gonna be
some films come. Everybody says that they're the that and
that's fine because there's a story, there's a legacy to it.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
He took it to the game.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You see how he takes such as So that's my point.
So so, Rob, that's what I'm saying. I totally get
the want and win, But there's teams who won there's
nothing memorable about them, and they had a style of fashion.
I want to ask you this though, Jimmy, So you guys,
part of the issue with Michigan. You got oh Chris
Webber's taking this or this person's taking that. Now these
kids can eat make money. How do you do all that?
(15:01):
Do you feel like, man, I want to jump into
DeLorean back to the future and go back in time.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Do you just say, hey, it's just the way it rolls.
What do you think about all this now?
Speaker 5 (15:10):
I wish I could jump into the Laurier and go
back at time because the way these kids right now
are able to play four or five, six, seven, eight
years college crazy, Yeah, I think I would. Yeah, and
also have the opportunity to get paid. I mean, that's
that's the dream. And and then have the opportunity to
play at the next level is even better. So you know,
(15:33):
I love that these kids get the opportunity to you know,
capitalize off of their own talents, and and that's what
it's about. That's what we advocated for, that's what we
pushed for, you know, going down the road. I hope
they make it better for the kids coming behind them
and the opportunities that they have and and and not
(15:56):
abusing you know, what's in front of them. And I
think it's great. You know, it's all going to shake
out probably, you know, the next few years. As far
as regulatory things go. But but I'm excited and I'm
happy for them. But of course I wish I had
that opportunity because it would have changed. It would have changed,
(16:18):
you know, a lot of dynamics moving forward. And you
know with my family and generational you know, impact and wealth.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
We got one last thing. You got about a minute
you talked about how hard it is to win, and
it is hard to win. People don't always understand that.
But can you believe it's been twenty five years since
Tom Iso won a national championship.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
I know That's why I don't. I don't as great
as a coaching and I loved Tom. Tomas was a
great guy. He's a great mentor of mine. If people
don't know, he's not just a uh, you know, an
advocate or or adversary on Saturdays and Sundays or during
the week win against one of the best rival he's
(17:00):
But outside of that, he's always been, you know, in
my corner and in all of our corners, regardless of
where we went to school. But you know, when you
say twenty five years that you never know is wide opened.
This might be this year might be pretty good talented
team it's been.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
It's unbelievable how fast time goes by.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Absolutely, I'm looking at I got, you know, my nephew.
I was just sitting up here with my nephew and
he's talking about, you know, the birth of his which
he don't know, his his baby son or boy in
September and uh and I'm thinking like, man, I remember
putting diapers on you man, I remember before, I remember,
(17:42):
you know. It's just it's just so wild. But yeah,
time don't stop for no man. They don't enjoy it
while we're here.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Yes, sure, Jimmy, you're the best. Appreciate you man.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
You're going to JR golf Y golfing tournament. Jay Rose
gonna be here the church. Oh yeah, man, I'm gonna
try to get out there.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Man, I'll be in the house.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Foxible Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 4 (18:11):
The Fab Five and we did have Jimmy King on earlier,
but the Fab five legendary basketball team they went to
The five freshmen went to the National Championship Game their
first year, went back as sophomoror and they took an
l and both we got the legendary Chris Weber time out.
I was the year one, right, and then that was
two year two.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
So they were a great basketball team.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
They were iconic, they changed styling basketball, they would people
traveled around to see them, like the Beatles. I mean,
they were really big, but as I said earlier with
Jimmy King, never even won a Big Ten title like
which is shocking.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
As good as they.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Were, it's always about winning. And but that's why we
were a little different, in a little special in the
senses that we didn't win anything, but we are still remembered,
as you know, people who who changed the game, who
had the opportunity and probably should win. But it also
points to how hard it is to win, how difficult
(19:13):
it is to win, and the best teams don't always
win in college basketball win it's a one and done format.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
And I hear that, and that's all legitimate by Jimmy King,
who is one of the Fab Five. And it is
hard to win.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I get that.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
But if you want to be iconic and remembered now,
I think when I think of the Fab Five is
that they didn't win. I don't think about the big short,
oversized shorts. I don't think about all the other stuff.
I think, how did they not win? And here's the
thing that people it kills me. Well, they were freshmen, dude,
you got to the championship game. And my point is,
(19:50):
had they won, you wouldn't go. That doesn't count. They
were only freshmen. No, it would be the am I right,
you would, you would count it. So you can't have
it like I hear that with Lebron all the time.
Well they got to the finals against the Spurs, but
you can't really hold that against them. Would that count
that he won? Yeah, okay, so it counts that he lost.
And the same thing the Fab five. Okay, you didn't
(20:13):
win your first year, but then the second year you
came back right your experience and you still didn't win.
And then the Chris Weber and the timeout and all
that that people always remember, and when you only had
two cracks at it, right, I don't look at them
and think.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Iconic.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
For the other stuff I think of, they didn't get
it done, They didn't finish the deal. They met the
girl at the party, they talked, they exchanged numbers, they
didn't seal the deal. Can you be iconic without winning?
(20:55):
And I think the answer is no, you can be infamous.
And that's why we bring up to Buffalo Bills all
the time. It ain't about going to four straight Super Bowls.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It's not I couldn't disagree with you any of all
the things we've ever talked about. I might disagree with
you more on this than just about anything. The fact
that they were five freshmen, which is common now, that's
just normal. Part of it is because of them that
you can, oh, I can have five freshmen that can
(21:29):
start and ball and get me to a national championship game.
That's commonplace now, it wasn't then. That's part of what
makes it. I conni the idea that I'm gonna play
these They didn't even start as starters in the beginning
of the first few games because it.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Was like, oh, this is not what we do.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Even though they're kicking his juniors and seniors button practice,
just as in what we do, we can't do that.
Then eventually Steve Fisher said, man, I'm tripping. Do you
see these gudes get in here and start shout out
to Rob Polinka obviously Jam and the Lakers.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
He was on that team. He had to go to
the bench as a senior. Go have a seat.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
We got this iconic freshman team that's gonna do something.
You mentioned a style that matters because it carries to
this day. Baggy clothes.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
The black people wearing black baggy clothes anymore. You can't
they wear the short shorts. Baggie's coming back. Give it
one more year to be all over. Baggy is back.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Have you not sorts? I'm saying, give it one more
you know it's coming back.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Everybody.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Absolutely, the ball heads when they had all had hair,
can have high top phase. They all go bald. They
were iconic. They were in music and rap videos. People
reference them that last forever. You don't remember so many
teams that actually won the national championship. Now, on a
personal level, yes, the guys would have wanted to win.
Nobody questions that we all want you saying that it
(22:44):
doesn't matter, So why would it doesn't matter? I'm to
be iconic, is what I'm saying. It doesn't matter because
this team is iconic. Loser, can you not? Can you
beat the Buffalo Bills. They are more iconic, way more
iconic than the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
No, but I'm speaking you.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
But but you can look at somebody and go, uh,
the buffalo okay when you say buffalo bills, right right.
It's not about getting to something or wearing shorts. You're
playing basketball, and ultimately the goal in sports is to win.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
But own up. Let me gotta let you cook, let
me talk Muhammad Ai Lee. He lost way more than
we have a reference. But it was not just because
he was beating people. It was what he was doing,
how he was saying, what he meant for, what he
stood for. It was more than just the actual boxing.
Because there are plenty of people who some argue Sugar
(23:41):
Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard uh, some people argue Mayweather
that were better boxers. Some people can say it was
all the things, and that's what makes you an iconic.
Not it's Jordan, but it's the tongue out, it's the winning,
for sure, it's the shoes, it was the bagging, mich
Tim Jorges, Michael Tim Duncan's I got it.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
No, but Michael Jordan, you gotta mix that because he
hear me out.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I'm hearing Tim Duncan doesn't have anything other than the winning, right, Okay,
So Michael Jordan, you're talking about the shoes, the tongue out,
all that other stuff, the pumping up the fist, that
all goes with the winning that makes him up up
college basketball. My thing with the Fab five is other
than baggy shorts and black socks.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Seriously, will what is it? I will gladly answer that.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Tell me about them that you gotta remember, No, that's
commonplace now, Rob, that wasn't commonplace then for them to
talk the way they talk, the swag for them to
be and like I said, for rap videos to reference
that wasn't happening then that was.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
A movement at the time. I think that's you because
you grew up there.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Has nothing to do with it, because tell you another
team that was really do. I think it's because you
give you another example. You know who never won anything,
but you could argue his top five most influential dudes
in the NBA, Alan Iverson. He didn't win anything. You
can't name but a handful of players who are more
iconic than Alan Iverson because it was what he did,
what he meant, what he still for, the good, the bad,
(25:13):
the ugly. He was himself and they were authentically themselves.
Young dudes from the inner city who came they didn't want.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
To play the game. What what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
They got to two NBA, I mean two national championships
as freshman and sophomore, back when that was uncommon for
First of all, point is to.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Seal the deal, to really make your mark in college
basketball to me is about winning.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Couldn't disagree more and you can't name me three to
four teams that are more impactful than them historically.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Even when you talk about a guy like Christian Leader,
who's one of the greatest college basketball they won championship
and yeah, but that's why, that's why he's iconic. That's
why people consider him one of the all time greats.
I'm saying they missed the boat and really cementing themselves
(26:04):
other than the you're talking about superficial stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
No I'm not.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I'm talking about the game. They put three dudes also
in the NBA. One's of Hall of Famer Juwan Howard
played a million years, made all the money, had a
really good career.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Jalen Rose. I'm saying this is all leasons why they're iconic.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
I think that in order to really stamp yourself, just
like the coaches we talk about just.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
About you gotta be there. You're not playing just to
be playing. Had they won that, then they would be
the greatest team ever.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
I agree, If they had they won one or two, they.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Would have been like, oh my god, Now that would
have been a story, and that would have been something
you would talking about the all time greatest When you
talk about great college basketball teams, Michigan is not at
the top.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
But what I'm saying is, Rob, you can't name me
but three teams that are.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Talked about more in college basketball history, including all the winners.
FAB five legacy will go infinitely better than ninety seven
percent of the teams that won. I mean, we're gonna
be talking about Fab five for the next fifty to
one hundred years.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
You know what I think about the scandals. I think
about all the banners they took down. I think about
the non winning.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Of as much as you are, I just think about
nobody thinks about That's what they think about how good
they were. It's called context, right, And the context is
you have to remember what they were doing was unprecedented
at that time for freshmen.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
That's a huge notice. But they got to the championship.
It would be different if they never got there. My
point is, once you get there, you can win. You
got to the championship game. You can't use that as nobody,
Oh nobody in the freshman or sophomore.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Got You got what I'm saying, that makes them amazing.
That's literally why they were called the fab five. So
fabulous five fresh.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
To me, that's why I look at them and say,
ultimately their success or failure, they failed, that that group failed.
You just talked about the three guys who went on
to the NBA. You got three guys of that level
on that ILK and you can't win a college basketball championship.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Why it happens some of the no NBA dudes win
I mean or baby won. That's just that's nature the beast.
But absolutely, this is one of the most iconic teams period.
I don't even think I can't even believe that where
de bating is right now. I'm looking at all these
teams right now who won a championship. You ain't never
gonna mention again a day in your life nineteen ninety four, Arkansas,
because you mention in your life.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
For you, winning doesn't seem to matter. No winning No,
winning doesn't matter to you. You just you're like that.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
You like the extra stuff I'm talking about having being
iconic winning and where you look back and go when
I think of when I think of Derek Jeter and
the Yankees and that five champs.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
They won five championships. He made great plays. He was
an ultimate great player.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
When I look at his career, and you can look
at right now, Aaron Judge kind all the home runs
he wants.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Okay, where those pinstripes MVP all that.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Trust me, people will look at it and say, which
guy was the most iconic Yankee?
Speaker 1 (29:14):
And it would be Derek g to ten times out
of ten. Here's where he won, Here's where we hit one.
He also played on. Here's where we differ. You're making
it a singular thing. Winning is iconic. I'm saying absolutely,
But I'm also saying there are the rare sessions of
exceptions where teams or a player is iconic. Despite Michael
(29:36):
Vick is iconic. Do you remember the Michael Vick era.
Michael Vick era was Michael Vick was the thing. Michael
Vick was it more than even teams and guys who won.
Michael Vick was who was more iconic, Joe Flacco or
Michael Vick. Michael Vick was a thing for about a
(29:57):
six year period.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Yeah, but detroite just because you picked any quot I
could give to win one, Brad Johnson.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
It's not just that I said, it's a combination of both.
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
It's not the exceptions where you don't have to win
Allen Iverson, you have to Willnestlee iconic.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
He ain't win nothing. You can't name me but three
four players who are more iconic than Ai
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to check us out live every weekday from
four to seven pm Pacific seven to ten pm Eastern
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
You're listening to the best of the Odd Couple.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Day one of the tournament. Everybody says it's the greatest.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Dast boys of the year.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Gigga, Yes, overblown, overdone, And I'll say this, it's even
worse now than it was before. Okay, maybe you might
have had some bit of a case when we used
to know who the players were and we actually follow
college basketball. Now, there's no way on God's green Earth
(00:54):
you could call this the greatest day in sports. Most
people don't watch college basketball. Most people couldn't identify more
than two players or two or three players. So you're
not attached to anybody. And here's the biggest one. We
used to work together. We used to come into work.
(01:15):
There was office pools and all that. People are working remotely,
they are at home. It ain't the same. I'm sorry, America,
when you talk about the workforce before COVID, everybody went
to work. Everybody was handing out the sheets, fill out
their sheet, the brackets, blah blah blah, blah blah. And
I'm sorry. The first day of the tournament, it didn't
(01:39):
move for me. Today, Okay, I was not moved. Doesn't
mean I won't watch partake and the games are on
or But the greatest day in sports the first day
of and today you know McNee State have the upset,
but there's nothing else going on that would move you.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I'm just saying it's early.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
If you ask me the greatest day in sports, I say,
without question, it's opening day in Major League Baseball. And
I know the Dodgers and the Cubs opened up in Japan,
and that's an anomaly, and every once in a while
they do something like that. I worked in some of
the greatest baseball towns in America, and you know this.
(02:22):
It's a holiday in Detroit, it's a holiday in Cincinnati,
it's a holiday in New York, it's a holiday in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I'm dead serious, and it means a lot to people.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Of course, it's the passage of the right of passage
of spring too, where people who have been buried in
on the East Coast, and in these places they look
forward to the opening day spring is here in baseball.
So if I had to pick the best day of
any sport, to me, it's still Major League Baseball over
(02:58):
Day one of the NCAA Tournament.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Dard Luther Vandrols rolling Ron is great. Right now, you way,
you just disrespected one shining moment. You had your one
shining moment. Let me tell you why I disagree baseball.
But in day obviously it's a it's a beautiful day.
You got all these daytime games and ballparks look beautiful.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
But the only reason, a couple of reasons why I disagree.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
One of your better points when you talked about March
madness is I will agree that the it was almost
better in a sense when it was pre electronic of
your jobs handing out papers, or your college dorm rooms,
everybody handing out the brackets, that that natural having to
write it in. I do admit that felt a little better.
But here's why I disagree with you. Baseball is for
(03:43):
baseball fans, where I think March madness is even casual fans.
Because to your point, I don't know McNee State, I
don't know uh you know VCU.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I don't know Wafford. I don't know these schools.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
But I'm watching, and I think you get a lot
of people men, women, young, old who are watching because
it's it's to be to participate in this. It's something
I got my bracket. I'm shooting off tweets, I'm shooting
off text messages, and I'm doing it all day.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
You'd literally wake up in the morning there's games.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Please you did not send out tweets about today's games.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Stop it.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
People brackets today, they send out their brackets. No, who
does that? People are talking about the games? Really, what
game was it to talk about? As we can let
them let me finish. As we continue to have amazing
performances or close games or buzzer beaters or or uh
when we get upsets, that's when all this stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Did you see that?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
You see the magical moments? So for me, opening day
is a is a great day. But I think March
Madness appeals to many more people, and it's also a
game more participatory. You're into it, You're invested in your bracket,
You're invested in these storylines. You know they always find
this guy's that had a heart and now he's back
with this This kid lost two fingers, but he's out
(05:04):
here playing right now. And there's always these storylines they
build up the show. So I'm not gonna obviously this
opening day it's a beautiful day. I just think this
one has a little bit more of a peal. It's
an all day thing, and again you get to participate
because you have your bracket.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
So for me, that's the answer. They're not in a landslide.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
But I just think in March Madness the start of it,
it's just a happy, go lucky day. Everybody's excited and
everybody again is participating, So it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
I think you're living in the past and you got
still you're still like fantasizing or romanticizing is the right
word about what it used to be when we actually
knew and Michigan in the Fab five and they have
players that we knew, and I think that there was
a moment back then when Michael Jordan was in college
and all these guys were in college and they played
for these schools and we knew that they were playing.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I don't think that and back then it was and
I said this to you the other day.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Theis Monday in April used to be the greatest sports
day because that was the Cincinnati Reds opened up every
major league season, the only game to be played at
two o'clock in the afternoon, and then the NCAA Men's
Basketball Championship was that night. That used to be great
for me. I just can't this. College basketball does not
(06:21):
move the needle the same way that you're the college
basketball I was talking about.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
It was that side of the eighties nineties. There's no
denying that.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
But I don't know what really is the eighties nineties
and anything in life right. TV doesn't hit the same
big shows, don't hit the same movies. When's the last
time you had to race to the movie theater. Nothing
hits the same now because we're inundated with so much,
we have so much going on with our phones, we
get stuff, we can get it how we wanted. They're streaming,
so nothing really hits like the era when you were
most fond of it. I agree with that, but I
(06:49):
still think March Madness matters to a lot of people.
I still think it's just a fun day to just
watch games. The teams you don't know many games you
watched today?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, don't ask me.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I literally watched ninety percent of it because I'm always around,
you know, I'm working TV, so it's TV's.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I'm here with you saying did you stop to watch
any games? I promise you got home.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
My daughter's they're you know, a little not feeling Graham
sitting there with them, got the their So you're watching. Yeah, okay,
that's serious. I enjoy Remember we did uh, it was
one of our first ones.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Gotta goes. We did the day you shouldn't have to work.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
We did your birthday, we did super Bowl, we did Halloween,
we did March the day, day one of March Madness,
and what was the last one, rob g I can't
remember one more day?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And I said, March Madness.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
That was for me, the day if I could just
sit home, eat wings, watch the games all day.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
That's my kind of I love it. That's just me. Also,
but I think you're partial. Your favorite sports baseball.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
My favorite sports sport is basketball, so that also could
play a role in this.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yeah, but I also I've covered all of that. I'm
not I'm not wrong. I'm not saying you don't know sports.
I'm saying I covered Saint John's when Mark Jackson played.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I'm just saying, what's your favorite sport?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
No baseball?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
So say that cover college back.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I know you covered everything since nineteen eighty six and
eighty seven.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Rob, Okay you can't. It's okay that you love baseball.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
You literally have a podcast, you have an entire website
dedicated to it, you have a Hall of Fame. Vote. Rob,
you love baseball, That's okay, you should. That's your jam.
I'm a hooper and so for me March madness. We
can see what other folks say.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 1 (08:35):
Welcome in Jimmy King to the Odd Couple, Rob and
Kevin on a TV Things Jimmy Michigan Fab five.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
What's up Jimmy? Now? We just arguing. We're going good, Jimmy.
We just arguing like we always do. Man.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
But how big of a day is it for you?
We were just talking about big sports days. You got
Opening Day in baseball. Some people may be say the
Super Bowl is the biggest day. Some people like me
would say it's the opening day of the tournament. What
about you, how do you feel about today?
Speaker 5 (09:02):
Well, anytime that you know, we get a chance to
celebrate or to have a new season or new beginning,
I love it, whether it's baseball, basketball, or football, regardless
of the sport, because really we're you know, we're lucky
to be able to to be able to play and
(09:22):
to celebrate the beginning of the season. It's special for
any sport. So I don't have any particular one, but
I enjoy them all. For instance, like open a day
for baseball, that's that's a great day to go out.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
You know that in Detroit. It's a holiday in Detroit.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
Yeah, it's coded Detroit. But I'm actually in Dallas where
it's nice sun and sunshiny right now. So that's why
I'm really, you know, enjoying the spring break and spring
weather that we're getting right now.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Awesome.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Hey, Jimmy, let's talk about, of course, the Michigan Fab
five and what it means to be a part of
that and how big it was. And the thing that
I always say is, you know, you guys are in
basketball lore for just you know, the group that was there,
what you were almost able to get to. But there's
something there the big shorts all that they're walking around
(10:16):
like rock stars people like were caught up in it
and it was worthy of that, but not being able
to finish the deal or win.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Where does that fit in?
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Because I think that's what stops people from really being
able to put the Fab five where they should be
in basketball? And now did you not win a championship?
All right, and we got that, but you guys, which
is shocking, didn't even win a Big Ten title when
you were together. Why do you think that that's fair
to look at the big the Fab five? Is that
(10:48):
that's just not getting Like if Lebron was in Miami
and they went to four years and they didn't win,
you know, you wouldn't look at it the same way.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
Well, the difference I think is one. It was it's
not professional sports. So the the uh, the long lasting
effect I think it has for fans, particularly UH for
college is one thing and it and it and it
could get brought back up repeatedly around this time for
(11:20):
through March madness. And you know, people I think are
attached to feelings and more to how you made them
feel in those moments. And that's the reason why you know,
I feel like, you know, we're always you know, pushed
to the front because we you know, people remember how
we made them feel in those moments, not necessarily that
(11:41):
we won. Obviously we didn't and and lost in in
in in some you know horrific and you know, terrible
fashion that that also is remembered. But when you're in
it and you're playing it, you know, it's it's you know,
it's it's what you think you're supposed to be doing.
(12:04):
That's what we felt we were supposed to do. We
we were intentional about, you know, changing the aesthetics of
the game and bringing our own flavor and making the
mark in that way as well, not just winning the
Big Ten championship or winning the national championship. You know,
(12:25):
it was it was more to it for us than
just that.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
But but Jimmy, if I were to say the Fab
five success or failure, which one?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Would it be?
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Success? For thirty years? For now, people I still get
called for for appearances, speaking engagements.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
I get all that, But but isn't it about winning?
And I mean it, I'm not trying to be little
the fas I'm not. Of course, I'm not, Jimmy, you
know me for one hundred years.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Of course is always about winning. And but that's why
we were a little different, in a little special in
the senses that we didn't win anything, but we are
still remembered, as you know, people who who changed the game,
who had the opportunity and probably should win. But it
also points to how hard it is to win, how
(13:22):
difficult it is to win, and the best teams don't
always win in college basketball. Winner is a one and
done format.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Jimmy King, our guests on the odd couple, member of
the Fab five Michigan Fat five A right, Jimmy, let
me jump on another side of this. I'm born and
raised in Antarburm, Michigan. So you guys in your prime
doing your thing. I was, give or take ten eleven
twelve years old. Eric Riley lived in my neighborhood. How
about that? So I'm very fond of you, and I
think what I would want to add to this conversation
(13:50):
is nobody remembers who won in two thousand and two.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
You know two thousand and three, there are teams that are.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Nothing about Tom remember you memberable, I think the difference
what you're saying, winning winning matters all.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
But I think, but if they win, it just it's
solidified what they want three guys for.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
But for most but I think that's why we were
a little And that's what I'm adding to this.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah, I think. So this is what I'm saying, Rob.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
There are teams who won, they just won and you go, okay, wow,
Like an Arkansas team won with Carlos Williamson. Does anybody
ever bring up that Arkansas won in like ninety four? No,
And but you bring up the Fab five all the time.
There's documentary, there's books, there's movies, there's probably gonna be
some films come. Everybody says that they're the that and
that's fine because there's a story, there's a legacy to it.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
He took it to the game.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You see how he takes such as So that's my point.
So so, Rob, that's what I'm saying. I totally get
the want and win, But there's teams who won there's
nothing memorable about them, and they had a style of fashion.
I want to ask you this though, Jimmy, So you guys,
part of the issue with Michigan. You got oh Chris
Webber's taking this or this person's taking that. Now these
kids can eat make money. How do you do all that?
(15:01):
Do you feel like, man, I want to jump into
DeLorean back to the future and go back in time.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Do you just say, hey, it's just the way it rolls.
What do you think about all this now?
Speaker 5 (15:10):
I wish I could jump into the Laurier and go
back at time because the way these kids right now
are able to play four or five, six, seven, eight
years college crazy, Yeah, I think I would. Yeah, and
also have the opportunity to get paid. I mean, that's
that's the dream. And and then have the opportunity to
play at the next level is even better. So you know,
(15:33):
I love that these kids get the opportunity to you know,
capitalize off of their own talents, and and that's what
it's about. That's what we advocated for, that's what we
pushed for, you know, going down the road. I hope
they make it better for the kids coming behind them
and the opportunities that they have and and and not
(15:56):
abusing you know, what's in front of them. And I
think it's great. You know, it's all going to shake
out probably, you know, the next few years. As far
as regulatory things go. But but I'm excited and I'm
happy for them. But of course I wish I had
that opportunity because it would have changed. It would have changed,
(16:18):
you know, a lot of dynamics moving forward. And you
know with my family and generational you know, impact and wealth.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
We got one last thing. You got about a minute
you talked about how hard it is to win, and
it is hard to win. People don't always understand that.
But can you believe it's been twenty five years since
Tom Iso won a national championship.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
I know That's why I don't. I don't as great
as a coaching and I loved Tom. Tomas was a
great guy. He's a great mentor of mine. If people
don't know, he's not just a uh, you know, an
advocate or or adversary on Saturdays and Sundays or during
the week win against one of the best rival he's
(17:00):
But outside of that, he's always been, you know, in
my corner and in all of our corners, regardless of
where we went to school. But you know, when you
say twenty five years that you never know is wide opened.
This might be this year might be pretty good talented
team it's been.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
It's unbelievable how fast time goes by.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Absolutely, I'm looking at I got, you know, my nephew.
I was just sitting up here with my nephew and
he's talking about, you know, the birth of his which
he don't know, his his baby son or boy in
September and uh and I'm thinking like, man, I remember
putting diapers on you man, I remember before, I remember,
(17:42):
you know. It's just it's just so wild. But yeah,
time don't stop for no man. They don't enjoy it
while we're here.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Yes, sure, Jimmy, you're the best. Appreciate you man.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
You're going to JR golf Y golfing tournament. Jay Rose
gonna be here the church. Oh yeah, man, I'm gonna
try to get out there.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Man, I'll be in the house.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Foxible Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
The Fab Five and we did have Jimmy King on earlier,
but the Fab five legendary basketball team they went to
The five freshmen went to the National Championship Game their
first year, went back as sophomoror and they took an
l and both we got the legendary Chris Weber time out.
I was the year one, right, and then that was
two year two.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
So they were a great basketball team.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
They were iconic, they changed styling basketball, they would people
traveled around to see them, like the Beatles. I mean,
they were really big, but as I said earlier with
Jimmy King, never even won a Big Ten title like
which is shocking.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
As good as they.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Were, it's always about winning. And but that's why we
were a little different, in a little special in the
senses that we didn't win anything, but we are still remembered,
as you know, people who who changed the game, who
had the opportunity and probably should win. But it also
points to how hard it is to win, how difficult
(19:13):
it is to win, and the best teams don't always
win in college basketball win it's a one and done format.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
And I hear that, and that's all legitimate by Jimmy King,
who is one of the Fab Five. And it is
hard to win.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I get that.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
But if you want to be iconic and remembered now,
I think when I think of the Fab Five is
that they didn't win. I don't think about the big short,
oversized shorts. I don't think about all the other stuff.
I think, how did they not win? And here's the
thing that people it kills me. Well, they were freshmen, dude,
you got to the championship game. And my point is,
(19:50):
had they won, you wouldn't go. That doesn't count. They
were only freshmen. No, it would be the am I right,
you would, you would count it. So you can't have
it like I hear that with Lebron all the time.
Well they got to the finals against the Spurs, but
you can't really hold that against them. Would that count
that he won? Yeah, okay, so it counts that he lost.
And the same thing the Fab five. Okay, you didn't
(20:13):
win your first year, but then the second year you
came back right your experience and you still didn't win.
And then the Chris Weber and the timeout and all
that that people always remember, and when you only had
two cracks at it, right, I don't look at them
and think.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Iconic.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
For the other stuff I think of, they didn't get
it done, They didn't finish the deal. They met the
girl at the party, they talked, they exchanged numbers, they
didn't seal the deal. Can you be iconic without winning?
(20:55):
And I think the answer is no, you can be infamous.
And that's why we bring up to Buffalo Bills all
the time. It ain't about going to four straight Super Bowls.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It's not I couldn't disagree with you any of all
the things we've ever talked about. I might disagree with
you more on this than just about anything. The fact
that they were five freshmen, which is common now, that's
just normal. Part of it is because of them that
you can, oh, I can have five freshmen that can
(21:29):
start and ball and get me to a national championship game.
That's commonplace now, it wasn't then. That's part of what
makes it. I conni the idea that I'm gonna play
these They didn't even start as starters in the beginning
of the first few games because it.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Was like, oh, this is not what we do.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Even though they're kicking his juniors and seniors button practice,
just as in what we do, we can't do that.
Then eventually Steve Fisher said, man, I'm tripping. Do you
see these gudes get in here and start shout out
to Rob Polinka obviously Jam and the Lakers.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
He was on that team. He had to go to
the bench as a senior. Go have a seat.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
We got this iconic freshman team that's gonna do something.
You mentioned a style that matters because it carries to
this day. Baggy clothes.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
The black people wearing black baggy clothes anymore. You can't
they wear the short shorts. Baggie's coming back. Give it
one more year to be all over. Baggy is back.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Have you not sorts? I'm saying, give it one more
you know it's coming back.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Everybody.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Absolutely, the ball heads when they had all had hair,
can have high top phase. They all go bald. They
were iconic. They were in music and rap videos. People
reference them that last forever. You don't remember so many
teams that actually won the national championship. Now, on a
personal level, yes, the guys would have wanted to win.
Nobody questions that we all want you saying that it
(22:44):
doesn't matter, So why would it doesn't matter? I'm to
be iconic, is what I'm saying. It doesn't matter because
this team is iconic. Loser, can you not? Can you
beat the Buffalo Bills. They are more iconic, way more
iconic than the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
No, but I'm speaking you.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
But but you can look at somebody and go, uh,
the buffalo okay when you say buffalo bills, right right.
It's not about getting to something or wearing shorts. You're
playing basketball, and ultimately the goal in sports is to win.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
But own up. Let me gotta let you cook, let
me talk Muhammad Ai Lee. He lost way more than
we have a reference. But it was not just because
he was beating people. It was what he was doing,
how he was saying, what he meant for, what he
stood for. It was more than just the actual boxing.
Because there are plenty of people who some argue Sugar
(23:41):
Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard uh, some people argue Mayweather
that were better boxers. Some people can say it was
all the things, and that's what makes you an iconic.
Not it's Jordan, but it's the tongue out, it's the winning,
for sure, it's the shoes, it was the bagging, mich
Tim Jorges, Michael Tim Duncan's I got it.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
No, but Michael Jordan, you gotta mix that because he
hear me out.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I'm hearing Tim Duncan doesn't have anything other than the winning, right, Okay,
So Michael Jordan, you're talking about the shoes, the tongue out,
all that other stuff, the pumping up the fist, that
all goes with the winning that makes him up up
college basketball. My thing with the Fab five is other
than baggy shorts and black socks.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Seriously, will what is it? I will gladly answer that.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Tell me about them that you gotta remember, No, that's
commonplace now, Rob, that wasn't commonplace then for them to
talk the way they talk, the swag for them to
be and like I said, for rap videos to reference
that wasn't happening then that was.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
A movement at the time. I think that's you because
you grew up there.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Has nothing to do with it, because tell you another
team that was really do. I think it's because you
give you another example. You know who never won anything,
but you could argue his top five most influential dudes
in the NBA, Alan Iverson. He didn't win anything. You
can't name but a handful of players who are more
iconic than Alan Iverson because it was what he did,
what he meant, what he still for, the good, the bad,
(25:13):
the ugly. He was himself and they were authentically themselves.
Young dudes from the inner city who came they didn't want.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
To play the game. What what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
They got to two NBA, I mean two national championships
as freshman and sophomore, back when that was uncommon for
First of all, point is to.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Seal the deal, to really make your mark in college
basketball to me is about winning.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Couldn't disagree more and you can't name me three to
four teams that are more impactful than them historically.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Even when you talk about a guy like Christian Leader,
who's one of the greatest college basketball they won championship
and yeah, but that's why, that's why he's iconic. That's
why people consider him one of the all time greats.
I'm saying they missed the boat and really cementing themselves
(26:04):
other than the you're talking about superficial stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
No I'm not.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I'm talking about the game. They put three dudes also
in the NBA. One's of Hall of Famer Juwan Howard
played a million years, made all the money, had a
really good career.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Jalen Rose. I'm saying this is all leasons why they're iconic.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
I think that in order to really stamp yourself, just
like the coaches we talk about just.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
About you gotta be there. You're not playing just to
be playing. Had they won that, then they would be
the greatest team ever.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
I agree, If they had they won one or two, they.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Would have been like, oh my god, Now that would
have been a story, and that would have been something
you would talking about the all time greatest When you
talk about great college basketball teams, Michigan is not at
the top.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
But what I'm saying is, Rob, you can't name me
but three teams that are.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Talked about more in college basketball history, including all the winners.
FAB five legacy will go infinitely better than ninety seven
percent of the teams that won. I mean, we're gonna
be talking about Fab five for the next fifty to
one hundred years.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
You know what I think about the scandals. I think
about all the banners they took down. I think about
the non winning.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Of as much as you are, I just think about
nobody thinks about That's what they think about how good
they were. It's called context, right, And the context is
you have to remember what they were doing was unprecedented
at that time for freshmen.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
That's a huge notice. But they got to the championship.
It would be different if they never got there. My
point is, once you get there, you can win. You
got to the championship game. You can't use that as nobody,
Oh nobody in the freshman or sophomore.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Got You got what I'm saying, that makes them amazing.
That's literally why they were called the fab five. So
fabulous five fresh.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
To me, that's why I look at them and say,
ultimately their success or failure, they failed, that that group failed.
You just talked about the three guys who went on
to the NBA. You got three guys of that level
on that ILK and you can't win a college basketball championship.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Why it happens some of the no NBA dudes win
I mean or baby won. That's just that's nature the beast.
But absolutely, this is one of the most iconic teams period.
I don't even think I can't even believe that where
de bating is right now. I'm looking at all these
teams right now who won a championship. You ain't never
gonna mention again a day in your life nineteen ninety four, Arkansas,
because you mention in your life.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
For you, winning doesn't seem to matter. No winning No,
winning doesn't matter to you. You just you're like that.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
You like the extra stuff I'm talking about having being
iconic winning and where you look back and go when
I think of when I think of Derek Jeter and
the Yankees and that five champs.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
They won five championships. He made great plays. He was
an ultimate great player.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
When I look at his career, and you can look
at right now, Aaron Judge kind all the home runs
he wants.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Okay, where those pinstripes MVP all that.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Trust me, people will look at it and say, which
guy was the most iconic Yankee?
Speaker 1 (29:14):
And it would be Derek g to ten times out
of ten. Here's where he won, Here's where we hit one.
He also played on. Here's where we differ. You're making
it a singular thing. Winning is iconic. I'm saying absolutely,
But I'm also saying there are the rare sessions of
exceptions where teams or a player is iconic. Despite Michael
(29:36):
Vick is iconic. Do you remember the Michael Vick era.
Michael Vick era was Michael Vick was the thing. Michael
Vick was it more than even teams and guys who won.
Michael Vick was who was more iconic, Joe Flacco or
Michael Vick. Michael Vick was a thing for about a
(29:57):
six year period.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Yeah, but detroite just because you picked any quot I
could give to win one, Brad Johnson.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
It's not just that I said, it's a combination of both.
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
It's not the exceptions where you don't have to win
Allen Iverson, you have to Willnestlee iconic.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
He ain't win nothing. You can't name me but three
four players who are more iconic than Ai
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