March 22, 2025 • 35 mins
Rob and Kelvin explain why Nikola Jokic doesn’t need to be a good defender to be considered the Greatest Player in the NBA, debate whether the Michigan Fab Five can be considered iconic despite never actually winning a national championship and argue over how impressive Bronny James’ 17-point performance against the Milwaukee Bucks really was.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Magic Johnson was on Byron Scott's Fast Break podcast Byron Scott,
Friend of the show, and he was talking about the
new wave of NBA players and in the conversation, he
explained why he believes that Nikolae Jokic, two time MVP
runner up or possible winning this year as well, is
easily the best player in basketball tay listen.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Best player in basketball right now, and he reads situations
and defense as well. His basketball IQ is off the chart. Yeah,
and then he beats you because he's off rhythm. He's
he's not one of the best yet, but he is
up there. And the only thing he can't do like
Kareem could do is dominate on both hims. Right That's
(01:09):
what's missing for him because he's not a big shot blocker. Defensively,
he's Yeah, to a certain extent, he's the best player
in the league.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
Where are you?
Speaker 6 (01:25):
He is the best player in the league.
Speaker 7 (01:27):
And the biggest difference is he absolutely is not a
great defender, without a doubt. You know, you look at
some of the best players in the league. Kobe had
his years, great on both ends. Lebron had his years
obviously both great on both ends. You look at Giannis
had a couple of years. You could argue not nearly
like it used to be.
Speaker 6 (01:43):
Not right.
Speaker 7 (01:45):
My biggest thing you don't have to be Kawhi, Leonard,
Draymon Green, Ben Wallace. All I asked for rob is
effort defenses. All I asked, can you at least be
putting up an effort and can you at least showed
me that you care.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
Steph Curry. A lot of people, oh, he's not a
great defender. You're right. But one thing I give him
credit for, and you know.
Speaker 7 (02:06):
I've been critical love him for a while, is that
he at least gives effort on the defensive end.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
He at least tries.
Speaker 7 (02:11):
Again, he's not Gary Payton, you know, in his prime,
but he gives efforts.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So for me, Gary Payton was the glove. Then Steph
is the mint. At least he's covering up something, right.
Speaker 7 (02:22):
My biggest issue is at times we've seen Luca bruh,
you're not even given effort, like you're not ry.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
These are big NBA players you're gonna be And we've
seen that with Lebron and in this later stage of
his career where Lebron we've even seen some players if
you remember who wasn't who pushed Lebron towards his playing couple?
Speaker 6 (02:44):
Who was that?
Speaker 7 (02:46):
Remember that, like, dude, because serious a lot like when
you play ball, anybody who's played, I don't care if
it's Y M c A. You've pushed the player, right,
and Lebron be and Lebron is one of the moments
you push and you go they I just push Lebron
on national team. Oh my gosh, but effort And that's
(03:06):
been an issue with Luca.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
And now to let me say this, yeah yeah, well
he'll look at somebody else ain't gone exactly like LEBRONO
look over and go like you didn't that's your guy.
Speaker 7 (03:18):
Dude, that was your man who got an easy leg.
But you should have known he was coming down the lane.
Lebron just say my bad, bruh. So that's my biggest point.
I think you can absolutely be the best player. I
think is the best player in the NBA, and is
he the greatest defender. He's actually taking a step back.
They had on the notes that you know he's a
he's uh had other years where he was ranked a
little bit better. He giving some more efforts. So that's
(03:41):
my biggest thing. As long as you give effort. Look,
we left some things to be desired with Shaq is
a defender. You thought Shaq could be a better defender,
better rebounder, blockmore shots. You know some Alan Iverson didn't
really play that. He got steals because he was fast,
but he didn't play great defense. It happens with some
guys where they're just not going to be the best defenders.
As long as you care, as long as you're an effort,
I'm okay with it. If you're that dominant, that unique
(04:04):
on the offensive end. Last point, because Magic Johnson, let's
not act like he was Kawhi Leonard. Let's not act
like he was Bruce Bowen himself. You know, he wasn't
Scottie Pippen on the defensive end, and Larry bird, but
they cared, they gave effort, and they were that dominant
on the other end that they kind of made up
for those sins.
Speaker 6 (04:20):
That's my biggest point.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, I think you're right. You're not gonna be everything
that you know all around in all world on both ends.
That's why when you talk about Michael Jordan, some of
the stuff he's scary. It's scary because he was a
very good defensive MVP, right and stuff like that, which
you just don't see averaged over thirty points in a
postseason like the Whenever people just talk about Michael Jordan,
(04:43):
they think it's just because he was six and oh,
you just haven't watched him or done your research.
Speaker 7 (04:49):
And Iron Poe, I tell people go back and watch
a good five to ten to fifteen minutes of just
You once a year, just to remind because you know,
we all can be creatures of the moment, a prisoners
of the moment. That's to say, just you know, look
at this every now and again. Go remind YOURSELFLF exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
And as a guy was covering the NBA back then,
I was fortunate because I was sitting there and I
think I told you this before. That's when David Sturwy's commissioner,
and he brought all the writers from upstairs and put
us down court side so we could take in the game.
We could hear the players talking, we could write about
those things and the rivalries and and you know what
(05:25):
I mean. I'll give him credit for that, because you
can tell a story better when you're up close and
you can hear all those things, whereas if you're up
top you can't tell what Bird said in that moment
or yes, it was a big deal, but anyway, I think, uh,
(05:48):
when you look at so I don't expect the Joker
to be all world on everything, but it's hard to
not think he's not the best player because he easily
could have won that MVP. At him be winning it
was a drum beat. It was a drum beat against him.
And he's still you know, and he didn't win it,
but that was because of that drum beat. Perkins was
a big part of that and talking down about you
(06:10):
can't give him another MVP. He hasn't won a championship,
and then of course he went won the championship that
off season, and now you're looking at this year, which
is better than any of his MVP seasons and then
he puts up a thirty twenty twenty game which is
never never an EVA, never been done before. So when
you add all those things together, how is he not
(06:32):
and it's not him?
Speaker 6 (06:33):
Who is it? Yeah?
Speaker 7 (06:34):
Well, I mean the best. So that's again that's where
it gets weird. We all agree he's the best player.
Does that mean he's the MVP for some people? Know,
That's where it gets weird, right, best player and he
just come up with award who's the best player in
the NBA?
Speaker 6 (06:46):
The best player of war goes to period.
Speaker 7 (06:48):
Just call it the best player because so many years
Lebron was the best player for the MVP was Derreck
Ross first, Chack was the best player for a few years,
but it was Steve Nash or you know, because that's
where it gets confusing. Some people vote, I'm giving the
MVP the voye value of player because they're the best.
Some people vote, well, it's based on their team and
if that person, if you subtract them from that team.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
See.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I think I think that it's just changed because everybody
thinks everybody should win stuff and that I don't. I
don't have I don't think you need to the MVP
shouldn't change. It should just be the best player, Uh,
the best player in the league.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (07:23):
But I'm with you, but no, we don't call it that.
It's no.
Speaker 7 (07:25):
But if you took him off this team or then
he doesn't have her the help sometimes can it just
be the best player the league? Was Michael Jordan period,
But that's just eight nine times maybe more. But I'm
just saying anyone, Hi only got five MP's rob g
you had a question.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, So to go back to you guys, you original
point about yokis because the MVP is a whole different
ball of ways.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
We could talk about that all show if.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
He wanted to.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
But Magic Johnson said at the beginning of that clip
and early on in the podcast, you know, Nikola Jokic
is just so good. He's one of the all time
great centers already, that's the way he'starting. He's that good
of a player. He's gonna have that kind of hardware.
The question, though, is because Magic says when you guys
said so, he's also a defensive liability. So when we're
having that hypothetical conversation twenty years from now, like, hey,
(08:07):
the greatest players of all time? Can Jokisch, even with
his offensive capabilities and all the accolades he's gonna have,
can he be seriously considered amongst the top five or
ten players?
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Ever?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
If he's acknowledged of being a turnstile on the other end.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
I think I say no, just off the surface of that.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
But even have to have such numbers and demod like
nine MVPs, you know what I mean, something something that's
just rob g and not.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
He didn't.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
He wasn't the first to have a thirty twenty game.
He had a forty thirty thirty game or something.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
It would have to be something of that ilk to
what you'll be like, Okay, I know the defensive thing,
but dude, this guy could not Yeah, Ween be there.
He's supposed to be there. He's supposed to be that.
This dude demolished the league. He one we wound up
winning three early MVPs and an he won five in
a row like something like that.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Is because with the closest comp be like Larry Bird.
That's that's why there is like a great defender. Now
he's still viewed as one of the top Tom Good
reach that same trajectory.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
I say, yes.
Speaker 7 (09:18):
But the challenge, while he's gonna be hard to crack,
it is because when you start listening, first of all,
everybody always says, somebody, Steph Curry's top ten, and you
gotta relax because once you start naming.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And that top ten, there's thirty five people, right exactly
because it gets crazy.
Speaker 7 (09:31):
But if you look at let's just say a roundabouts
top ten, so Jordan clearly right, you're not going there
both great on both ends. You start looking at the
top ten, Rogie, that's one of the things they do
have in their factor. If you want to put Tim
Duncan in there, we know that you want to put
Kobe in it. We know that Lebron in there. We
know that tem Olajuan, we know that. So like he's
started to get a lot of the guys that you
(09:52):
will play Bill Russell if you want to put him
in there. Literally, that was his best part was the defense.
A lot of those guys are known for being on
both sides of the ball, so it would be hard
to knock out one of those. Like is he better
than Ni kim Elajuan stats? Maybe yeah, But like I
don't know because the last point I'll make he has
the benefit. And I always love hearing when they talk
(10:13):
about this. So Keem always said, man, he should talk
to Kenny Smith. He who say, Kenny, you have it easy.
Kenny say why why big man? He would say, because
you only got a once every few nights. You got
to go up against somebody every night. I'm going up
against David Robinson, Shack Alonzo morning to Ken Bae Matombo
like he was going up you know, just doing gewing
like night after night Rick Smith's he's Biggs night after night,
(10:36):
really talented bigs and Jokis does have advantage and he
doesn't have to do what is it and beating is out.
He's hardly plays off the top of your neck, off
top of your head. AD's always hurt. But here's the thing, though,
who is he going up against night and night out?
And I'm not taking away he's only beating who's in front.
But I'm saying that was one thing you might but.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
But to me that would be a nitpick and that's fair.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
But the other part is he's destroyed all the like
what he's supposed to do, no but but with nobody
there and when he has played some of these guys
he still has played, you know what I mean, It's
not like, okay, when he plays when there's when there's
somebody there, he says his numbers are bad.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
That's not the case.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
And that and that's the only way you could look
at it, because it's not fair to say you can't
count him. I mean, we know this Will Chamberlain when
he was playing in the league and dominated to change
all the rules because he was the biggest guy there, right,
Nobody they couldn't guard him.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
They couldn't go there to change the rules to stop him.
Speaker 7 (11:36):
No, that without a doubt the head. You couldn't stand
in the paint. You couldn't done You can't do this,
can do that. But that's what my last point. J
played his whole college career. He couldn't dunk.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
In dunk in college.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
with Rob Parker and kelvin Washington weekdays at seven pm
Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
App five And we did have Jimmy King on earlier.
But the Fab five legendary basketball team they went to
The five freshmen went to the National championship game. Their
first year went back as sophomoror and they took an
L and bolt. We got the legendary Chris Webber time out.
I was the year one right, and then that two
(12:19):
year two. So they were a great basketball team. They
were iconic, they changed styling basketball. They would people traveled
around to see them, like the Beatles. I mean, they
were really big, but as I said earlier with Jimmy King,
never even won a Big Ten title like which is shocking.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
As good as they were.
Speaker 8 (12:39):
It's always about winning. And but that's why we were
a little different, in a little special in the senses
that we didn't win anything, but we are still remembered
as you know, people who who changed the game, who
had the opportunity and probably should win. But it also
points to how hard it is to win, how difficult
(13:01):
it is to win, and the best teams don't always
win in college basketball win it's a one and done format.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
And I hear that, and that's all legitimate by Jimmy King,
who is one of the Fab five.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
And it is hard to win. I get that.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
But if you want to be iconic and remembered now,
I think when I think of the Fab Five is
that they didn't win. I don't think about the big short,
oversized shorts. I don't think about all the other stuff.
I think, how did they not win? And here's the
thing that people kills me. Well, they were freshmen, dude,
you got to the championship game. And my point is,
(13:38):
had they won, you wouldn't go. That doesn't count. They
were only freshmen. No, it would be the am I right,
you wouldn't count it. So you can't have it like
I hear that with Lebron all the time. Well they
got to the finals against the Spurs, but you can't
really like hold that against them. Would that count that
he won? Yeah, okay, so it counts that he lost.
And the same thing the Fab five. Okay, you didn't
(14:01):
win your first year, but then the second year you
came back right your experience and you still didn't win.
And then the Chris Webber and the timeout and all
that that people always remember. And when you only had
two cracks at it, right, I don't look at them
and think.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Iconic for the other stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I think of, they didn't get it done, they didn't
finish the deal. They met the girl at the party,
they talked they exchanged numbers, they didn't seal the deal.
Can you be iconic without winning? And I think the
(14:44):
answer is no, you can be infamous. And that's why
we bring up the Buffalo Bills all the time. It
ain't about going to four straight Super Bowls.
Speaker 6 (14:58):
It's not.
Speaker 7 (15:00):
I couldn't disagree with you any of all the things
we've ever talked about. I might disagree with you more
on this than just about anything. The fact that they
were five freshmen, which is common now, that's just normal.
Part of it is because of them that you can, oh,
I can have five freshmen that can start and ball
and get me to a national championship game. That's commonplace now,
(15:23):
it wasn't then. That's part of what makes it iconic,
the ideal that I'm gonna play these They didn't even
start as starters in the beginning of the first few
games because.
Speaker 6 (15:32):
It was like, oh, this is not what we do.
Speaker 7 (15:34):
Even though they're kicking his juniors and seniors button practice,
just just as in what we do, we can't do that.
Then eventually Steve Fisher said, man, I'm tripping. Do you
see these dudes get in here and start shout out
to Rob Pulinka obviously gim of the Lakers. He was
on that team. He had to go to the bench
as a senior. Go have a seat. We got this
iconic freshman team that's gonna do something. You mentioned a
style that matters because it carries to this day. Baggy close.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
The black people saw when Black Baggie closed anymore war
you cant they wear the short shorts.
Speaker 7 (16:02):
Maggie's coming back. Give it one more year to be
all over. Baggie is back. Have you not shorts? I'm saying,
give it one more you know it's coming back. Everybody
was absolutely the ball heads when they had all had hair,
can have high top phase, they all go bald. They
were iconic. They were in music and rap videos. People
reference them that last forever. You don't remember so many
(16:25):
teams that actually won the national championship. Now, on a
personal level, yes, the guys would have wanted to win.
Nobody questions that we.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
All want you saying that it doesn't matter, So why
would who doesn't say what I'm to be iconic is
what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
It doesn't matter because this team is iconic. Loser, can
you not? Can you be the Buffalo Bills?
Speaker 7 (16:45):
They are more iconic, way more iconic than the Buffalo bills.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
You but but you could look at some somebody and
go the buffalo okay when you say Buffalo bills, right right.
It's not about getting to something or wearing shorts. You're
playing basketball and ultimately the goal in sports is to win.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
But okay, let me gotta let you cook. Let me
talk Muhammad A Lee. He lost way more than we
have a reference. But it was not just because he
was beating people. It was what he was doing, how
he was saying, what he meant for, what he stood for.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
It was more than just the actual boxing.
Speaker 7 (17:27):
Because there are plenty of people who some argue Sugar
Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard uh, some people argue Mayweather
that were better boxers. Some people can say it was
all the things and that's what makes you an iconic.
Not it's Jordan, but it's the tongue out, it's the winning,
for sure, It's the shoes, it was the bagging. Michael
(17:49):
Tim Duncan's zotta no.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
But Michael Jordan, you gotta mix that because he hear
me out. I'm hear Tim Duncan doesn't have anything other
than the winning right. Okay, So Michael Jordan, you're talking
about the shoes, the tongue out, all that other stuff,
the pumping up the fist, that all goes with the
winning that makes him up up college basketball. My thing
(18:11):
with the Fab five is other than baggy shorts and
black socks.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
Seriously, what is it? I will gladly answer that.
Speaker 7 (18:20):
They were authentically them that you gotta remember, that's commonplace now, Rob,
That wasn't commonplace then for them to talk the way
they talk, that swag, for them to be and like
I said, for rap videos to reference them, that wasn't
happening then.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
That was a movement at the time.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
I think that's you because you grew up there.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
That has nothing to do with it. Because another that
was like, really do.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
I think it's because you.
Speaker 6 (18:45):
I'm gonna give you another example.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
You know who never won anything, but you could argue
his top five most influential dudes in the NBA Alan Iverson.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
He didn't win anything.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
You can't name but a handful of players who are
more iconic than Alan Iverson because it was what he did,
what he meant, what he still for, the good, the bad,
the ugly. He was himself and they were authentically themselves,
young dudes from the inner city who came they didn't
want to play the game.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
What you're talking about, what you're talking about, and.
Speaker 7 (19:12):
They got to two NBA, I mean two national championships
as freshman and sophomore, back when that was uncommon.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
For first of one point is to seal the deal.
To really make your mark in college basketball to me
is about winning. Couldn't disagree more.
Speaker 7 (19:27):
And you can't name me three to four teams that
are more impactful than them historically.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Even when you talk about a guy like Christian lad
who's one of the greatest college basketball they won championship
and but that's why, that's why he's iconic, That's why
people consider him one of the all time greats. I'm
saying they missed the boat and really cementing themselves other
(19:53):
than the you're talking about superficial stuff.
Speaker 7 (19:56):
I'm talking about the game. They put three dudes also
in the NBA. One's a Hall of Famer, Juan Howard
played a million years, made all the money, had a
really good career, but playing roads. I'm saying this is
all leads to why they're iconic.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I think that in order to really stamp yourself, just
like the coaches we talk about just about you gotta
be there. You're not playing just to be playing. Had
they won that, then.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
They would be the greatest team ever right up there.
That I agree. If they had they won one or two,
let say they went, people would.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Have been like, oh my god, Now that would have
been a story, and that would have been something you
woul talk about the all time greatest. When you talk
about great college basketball teams, Michigan is not at the top.
Speaker 7 (20:37):
But what I'm saying is rob But you can't name
me but three teams that are talked about more in
college basketball history, including all the winners. FAB five legacy
will go infinitely better than ninety seven percent of the
teams that won. I mean, we're gonna be talking about
(20:57):
Fab five for the next fifty to one hundred years,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Think about the scandals, I think about all the banners
they took down.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
I think about the non winning of.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
As I just think about nobody think about what they
think about. It's all context, right, and the context says
you have to remember what they were doing was unprecedented
at that time for freshmen.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
That's a huge notice but they got to the championship.
It would be different if they never got there. My
point is, once you get there, you can win. You
got to the championship game. You can't use that as nobody.
Nobody in the freshman or sophomore got.
Speaker 6 (21:38):
You got.
Speaker 7 (21:39):
What I'm saying, that makes them amazing. That's literally the
fab five, the fabulous five fresh to me.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
That's where I look at them and say, ultimately what
their success or failure? They failed, that that group failed.
You just talked about the three guys who went on
to the NBA. You got three guys of that level
and that ilk and you can win a college basketball championship.
Speaker 7 (22:02):
Why it happens some of the teams with no NBA
dudes win, I mean or baby won. That's just that's
nature the beast. But absolutely, this is one of the
most iconic teams period. I don't even think I can't
even believe that where debating is right now. I'm looking
at all these teams right now who won a championship.
You ain't never gonna mention again a day in your life.
Nineteen ninety four, Arkansas, because you mention in your life.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
For you, winning doesn't seem to matter.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
No winning, No, winning doesn't matter to you. You just
you're like that, you like the extra stuff I'm talking
about having being iconic winning and where you look back
and go when I think of when I think of
Derek Jeter and the Yankees and that five champs. They
won five championships. He made great plays. He was an
(22:47):
ultimate great player. When I look at his career, and
you can look at right now, Aaron judgekind all the
home runs he wants. Okay, where those pinstripes, MVP all that.
Trust me, people will look at it and say, which
guy was the most iconic Yankee? And it would be
Derek g to ten times out of ten. Here's where
here's where we have one. He also played many one.
(23:10):
Here's where you're where we differ. You're making it a
singular thing. Winning is iconic.
Speaker 7 (23:16):
I'm saying absolutely, But I'm also saying there are the
rare sessions of exceptions where teams or a player is iconic.
Despite Michael Vick is iconic. Do you remember the Michael
Vick era. Michael Vick era was the Michael Vick was
the thing. Michael Vick was it more than even teams,
(23:36):
the guys who won Michael Vick was who was more iconic,
Joe Flacco or Michael Vick. Michael Vick was a thing
for about a six year period.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, but the choice just because you picked any quel
give win one, Brad Johnson. It's not just that I said,
it's a combination of bowl.
Speaker 7 (23:55):
I'm saying the rare exceptions where you don't have Alan
Iver say you have to Willnesley icon they win nothing.
You you can't name me, but three four players who
are more iconic than AI.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
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Speaker 1 (24:19):
Somebody had a big game, I think last night. Rob
jik Kida explain.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
That's right now, there's two sides to this coin, specifically
on the odd couple. All right, if you are a
guy like Kelvin Washington, everything is great. You're gonna say, man.
Brownie James played a career high thirty minutes last night.
Scored a career high seventeen points, seven to ten shooting.
He had five assists, three rebounds on a block as well.
In the process, became the youngest Laker rookie since Magic
(24:49):
Johnson to record seventeen points and five assists while shooting
at least seventy percent from the floor.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
It's incredible performance.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
There's a lot of factors by the fifty fifth pick
the NBA Draft, but if you're Rob Parker, you can
also point out that Bronnie James only got in the
game because the Lakers basically sat their entire top seven
in the rotation, that they ended up losing that game
by twenty nine points of the Milwaukee Bucks, and that
(25:18):
Bronnie James in thirty minutes of action was not quite
a team worse, but only a team worse minus thirty
six while he was on the floor for plus minus.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
Rob Parker, your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
On the Bronnie James performance and the conversation that come
out of last night.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I'm trying to really put my thoughts together, because once
again people have overreacted. Who in the world trumpets a
seventeen point performance in a twenty nine point loss where
the game was never really in doubt with all the
injuries and whatnot. Seriously, I mean, really, that's the game.
(26:00):
I remember when he was in Philadelphia and they gave
him some extended minutes and he looked like a fish
out of water. You remember that game, And where was
Lebron James talking about leave the kid alone?
Speaker 6 (26:14):
Where was that tweet about the mean media?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Oh it was okay that all the talking heads on
TV this morning.
Speaker 6 (26:22):
We're big up in Bronni.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Now, I thought you wanted everybody to leave malone so
that the kid could develop and just play. Oh, today
was good because it was positive.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
Oh yeah, did you see my boy? Did you see
the kid? You see what he was able to do.
I told you he could play.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
There's a difference, all of Bronni's points, all of his
stats garbage time.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
That wasn't a real game. That was not a real game.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
If he did that in Philadelphia, when that earlier this year,
when they put him.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
In sending minutes, you'd get my attention. I don't value
this at all.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
There's a difference between games meaningful. That's what it is.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
That called garbage minutes. Why do we come up with that, Calvin,
Any points are good.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
You play basketball, right, No, we know there's garbage time.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
In baseball. We call it the mop up.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Right when the game's out of hand and you put
people in Oh yeah, yeah, mop up, dude, he pitched
four innings a mop up.
Speaker 6 (27:33):
That means there was a mess there. There was nothing there,
there was no game.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I'm sorry people going crazy and wigging out over Brownie.
I just I didn't see any value in it other
than the kid got to play because there was nobody
else to play and the game was never in doubt.
Speaker 5 (27:53):
Any played. That's it. That's it. That's all I took
from it.
Speaker 7 (27:56):
This is where you're in my opinion, I don't think
you're missing it. It's it's not that people are like
old Brownie has seventeen he's the greatest player of all time.
What they're seeing is confidence. What they're seeing is development.
What they're seeing is him get to his spots. What
they're seeing is them shooting shots that he didn't want
to shoot in Philadelphia, he didn't want to shoot in
(28:17):
other times. He is starting to develop, and that's all
you can ask for from any rookie young player is development,
and there should not be people reading into it too
much as if all of a sudden he is a
first top, you know, first tier rookie in the league
and he needs to be Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Candidate.
Speaker 8 (28:34):
No.
Speaker 7 (28:35):
I think people are celebrating him because they've somebody they
literally have seen their entire lives. A lot of these
players come in sixteen, seventeen, you know them, eighteen, Okay,
now they're in the league. We literally have seen him
his entire life, and so I think a lot of
people are just celebrating a kid they've seen grow up,
not necessarily saying, oh, look at him, now he's rookie
(28:55):
of the Year.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
I think that's overblown. Rob nobody's saying that.
Speaker 7 (28:59):
I think will people saying, was, Wow, look at Bronnie
out here playing with some confidence.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
Look at Bronnie out here getting the spots.
Speaker 7 (29:04):
Look at Brownnie, ooh nice left hand labeled little body
on a little and one okay, And that's what I
think you saw. So it's because guess what could happen
tomorrow if they if he played, he could have six
points and he goes, you know, three for twelve, like
that's a very much a possibility.
Speaker 6 (29:21):
He did not turn the corner.
Speaker 7 (29:22):
He's not all of a sudden a top two three
rookie in the in the league right now. But what
people saw and we're making and we're excited about, was
to grow seed development, see confidence, and again seeing it
from somebody that they've seen his entire life. And I've
always said this to you about this conversation. I think
more people are either like him or indifferent than they
(29:44):
are dislike him. Absolutely, there are people who dislike him
or you know, just tired of the whole James family
what out of doubt, But I think more people are
either just oh, yeah, all right, Bronnie whatever, or they're like, oh,
go ahead, Bronnie, I see a young man. So I
think people are just happy to see somebody that it
seems to have been a good kid, someone who has
seems to be.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
That's not what I'm so tired of hearing that there's
a there's a ton of good kids who can't play.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
Stop with that he's a good kid.
Speaker 9 (30:11):
There's a ton there's a lot of guys who led theirs.
Your kid, as if that means that you should be
on the basketball team if you're a good kid. You
know how many kids were good kids who got caught
because they couldn't play.
Speaker 7 (30:26):
Wait, wait, so is a conversation. Now you're saying he
shouldn't be in the court.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Are you saying yeah, because I don't think he should
be with the Lakers. No, I don't, I really don't.
I think he should be with the South Bay whatever
they are, the South Bay Lakers.
Speaker 7 (30:38):
And I told you I would have loved for him
to just spent the year. In the last night with
all the points. He was minus thirty six plus minus.
That's not meaningful basketball. When he played it wasn't doing anything.
And here's that was second worst.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Believe it or not, somebody was even worse than that
at minus thirty seven. All I'm saying to you is
to make it as if on some corner he didn't
do anything.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
Rob, Rob, listen to this starting lineup, Goodwin, Vincent, Hayes,
Morris connect.
Speaker 6 (31:09):
That might be the worst starting lineup. Well, I don't know.
Speaker 7 (31:11):
The Wizards probably put something I was worse, and Broanni
coming off the bench, give you thirty minutes. My point is,
did you think he was gonna be plus thirty six
against literally Giannis.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
And the Bucks.
Speaker 10 (31:21):
No?
Speaker 7 (31:21):
So people went into that game literally just won. It
was almost like a G League experience. Let me watch
him hoop and see what he does. Nobody thought they
were gonna win without their best players, multiple players, so
to analyze this as if it was a real game.
And if you're saying he again, I hope nobody's saying
he turned the corner. What we're saying is, oh, he
(31:44):
had a good night, cause again the next game he
might only have five, six, three points. That's a part
of this process. This is why I and I think
you were with me. I said, I would have loved him,
just say go down there, continue to thrive in a
G league, get your bumps and bruises in the G league.
But you know, and the Lakers didn't want to do that.
So it was a lot of people were happy to
see him have success one night. Nobody's rewriting history and saying,
(32:07):
all of a sudden, he's a top five rookie ever
in history. They're saying that was a fun good night
for a for a young kid who they've seen his
whole life.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
That that's where the NBA is a good fun night.
I just we've really lost it. If if that's what
we're looking at now and just meaningless points in some
meaningless game.
Speaker 6 (32:29):
It's a game. Is something, Come on, ro you get
every single game. It's not something. So what are the
Wizards doing? So what are the Wizards doing and what
are they doing what they.
Speaker 7 (32:39):
Do because they playing their bad that's the worst basketball
you've seen in your life.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Just because they're playing and they're not winning, doesn't mean
they're not trying or they don't build.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
You think that organization, you think that organization is trying
and they can't win stop. And that's the And that's
exactly the point. The Lakers were not going to win
last time. Not there was not there. Brownie wouldn't be there.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
And you know it, you nobody ever, nobody disagree with that.
That's all I'm saying that.
Speaker 7 (33:07):
But what I'm saying, we're past that where were gonna
hop into Delorria and go back.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
No, he Literally, all I'm saying is I'm not going
to raw, raw or celebrate a seventeen point game and
a blowout is if you're saying it was bad players
and everybody was bad, that's what he played against bad people.
I would much rather take a look at when they
put him in Philadelphia in a game that mattered, when
(33:31):
they have players, and he got an extended blow out there.
We saw about that common season has only been four months.
But whatever it is, and whether that's the boy he
literally just got in the league. The whole reason why
people are excited, I think you're missing this is because
it's because they are saying, oh, let's see if he's
(33:52):
been growing, if his confidence and that's what you want
to see in anybody. A pitcher in baseball, a guard
in the NBA, a defensive back in the NFL.
Speaker 6 (34:01):
Are you growing? Are you developing?
Speaker 7 (34:03):
Are we starting to see you get confidence and get
your nobody? No nobody, no, no, no, no, no, nobody was on
his team.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
No terrible team that was. I'm talking about the Lakers.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Somebody has to score, you know, when it's even with
bad teams. Okay, so even the Washington Wizards, they don't
score thirty two points, they'll score one hundred and fifteen
and lose and be terrible.
Speaker 10 (34:24):
You gotta score. It's an NBA game, right, So I'm
saying a score. Come on, man, it's not even what
we're talking about. The Lakers were a horrible team and
what they put out there. The Bucks had everybody bad team.
People will still go to scos. What is my point,
somebody's gotta get the garbage points. Somebody will score. It
doesn't dictate or tell you that he's made a step.
(34:46):
So that's that's that's box believe that. But see that's
just looking at a box score. The point is if
you saw the confidence he was hesitating throughout the year,
he wouldn't shoot that shot.
Speaker 6 (34:56):
He will be like us in a passage. He's confident.
Speaker 5 (34:58):
Okay, yes, he he.
Speaker 7 (35:00):
Was shooting with confidence. He was getting to the rack
with confidence. He's been dunking on people with confidence. That's
what the celebration is. There you go, you're getting confident
and getting to your spots. And that's like a pitcher
in baseball. You're getting confident throwing your throws. You're getting
confident facing big time hitters at the plate.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
You're not squimmish, you're not worrying.
Speaker 7 (35:19):
You're not oh, oh my gosh, it's Mike Trout, Oh
that's Mookie Bets. You're throwing what you throw. If they
hit a home run, that's fine. But you're comfortable throwing
your pitch. And that's what he's doing. He's comfortable taking
his shots getting to the hole. That's what people were celebrating.
It's not he could have did that and had ten points.
But if he looked confidently doing looked like he was
turning a corner or not turn your corner, but look
literally turning corner getting to the hole. People were celebrating
(35:41):
that it's not that they were this was a playoff
game or anything. They put out a terrible roster against
the Bucks, who had everybody except Dame
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Magic Johnson was on Byron Scott's Fast Break podcast Byron Scott,
Friend of the show, and he was talking about the
new wave of NBA players and in the conversation, he
explained why he believes that Nikolae Jokic, two time MVP
runner up or possible winning this year as well, is
easily the best player in basketball tay listen.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Best player in basketball right now, and he reads situations
and defense as well. His basketball IQ is off the chart. Yeah,
and then he beats you because he's off rhythm. He's
he's not one of the best yet, but he is
up there. And the only thing he can't do like
Kareem could do is dominate on both hims. Right That's
(01:09):
what's missing for him because he's not a big shot blocker. Defensively,
he's Yeah, to a certain extent, he's the best player
in the league.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
Where are you?
Speaker 6 (01:25):
He is the best player in the league.
Speaker 7 (01:27):
And the biggest difference is he absolutely is not a
great defender, without a doubt. You know, you look at
some of the best players in the league. Kobe had
his years, great on both ends. Lebron had his years
obviously both great on both ends. You look at Giannis
had a couple of years. You could argue not nearly
like it used to be.
Speaker 6 (01:43):
Not right.
Speaker 7 (01:45):
My biggest thing you don't have to be Kawhi, Leonard,
Draymon Green, Ben Wallace. All I asked for rob is
effort defenses. All I asked, can you at least be
putting up an effort and can you at least showed
me that you care.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
Steph Curry. A lot of people, oh, he's not a
great defender. You're right. But one thing I give him
credit for, and you know.
Speaker 7 (02:06):
I've been critical love him for a while, is that
he at least gives effort on the defensive end.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
He at least tries.
Speaker 7 (02:11):
Again, he's not Gary Payton, you know, in his prime,
but he gives efforts.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So for me, Gary Payton was the glove. Then Steph
is the mint. At least he's covering up something, right.
Speaker 7 (02:22):
My biggest issue is at times we've seen Luca bruh,
you're not even given effort, like you're not ry.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
These are big NBA players you're gonna be And we've
seen that with Lebron and in this later stage of
his career where Lebron we've even seen some players if
you remember who wasn't who pushed Lebron towards his playing couple?
Speaker 6 (02:44):
Who was that?
Speaker 7 (02:46):
Remember that, like, dude, because serious a lot like when
you play ball, anybody who's played, I don't care if
it's Y M c A. You've pushed the player, right,
and Lebron be and Lebron is one of the moments
you push and you go they I just push Lebron
on national team. Oh my gosh, but effort And that's
(03:06):
been an issue with Luca.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
And now to let me say this, yeah yeah, well
he'll look at somebody else ain't gone exactly like LEBRONO
look over and go like you didn't that's your guy.
Speaker 7 (03:18):
Dude, that was your man who got an easy leg.
But you should have known he was coming down the lane.
Lebron just say my bad, bruh. So that's my biggest point.
I think you can absolutely be the best player. I
think is the best player in the NBA, and is
he the greatest defender. He's actually taking a step back.
They had on the notes that you know he's a
he's uh had other years where he was ranked a
little bit better. He giving some more efforts. So that's
(03:41):
my biggest thing. As long as you give effort. Look,
we left some things to be desired with Shaq is
a defender. You thought Shaq could be a better defender,
better rebounder, blockmore shots. You know some Alan Iverson didn't
really play that. He got steals because he was fast,
but he didn't play great defense. It happens with some
guys where they're just not going to be the best defenders.
As long as you care, as long as you're an effort,
I'm okay with it. If you're that dominant, that unique
(04:04):
on the offensive end. Last point, because Magic Johnson, let's
not act like he was Kawhi Leonard. Let's not act
like he was Bruce Bowen himself. You know, he wasn't
Scottie Pippen on the defensive end, and Larry bird, but
they cared, they gave effort, and they were that dominant
on the other end that they kind of made up
for those sins.
Speaker 6 (04:20):
That's my biggest point.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, I think you're right. You're not gonna be everything
that you know all around in all world on both ends.
That's why when you talk about Michael Jordan, some of
the stuff he's scary. It's scary because he was a
very good defensive MVP, right and stuff like that, which
you just don't see averaged over thirty points in a
postseason like the Whenever people just talk about Michael Jordan,
(04:43):
they think it's just because he was six and oh,
you just haven't watched him or done your research.
Speaker 7 (04:49):
And Iron Poe, I tell people go back and watch
a good five to ten to fifteen minutes of just
You once a year, just to remind because you know,
we all can be creatures of the moment, a prisoners
of the moment. That's to say, just you know, look
at this every now and again. Go remind YOURSELFLF exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
And as a guy was covering the NBA back then,
I was fortunate because I was sitting there and I
think I told you this before. That's when David Sturwy's commissioner,
and he brought all the writers from upstairs and put
us down court side so we could take in the game.
We could hear the players talking, we could write about
those things and the rivalries and and you know what
(05:25):
I mean. I'll give him credit for that, because you
can tell a story better when you're up close and
you can hear all those things, whereas if you're up
top you can't tell what Bird said in that moment
or yes, it was a big deal, but anyway, I think, uh,
(05:48):
when you look at so I don't expect the Joker
to be all world on everything, but it's hard to
not think he's not the best player because he easily
could have won that MVP. At him be winning it
was a drum beat. It was a drum beat against him.
And he's still you know, and he didn't win it,
but that was because of that drum beat. Perkins was
a big part of that and talking down about you
(06:10):
can't give him another MVP. He hasn't won a championship,
and then of course he went won the championship that
off season, and now you're looking at this year, which
is better than any of his MVP seasons and then
he puts up a thirty twenty twenty game which is
never never an EVA, never been done before. So when
you add all those things together, how is he not
(06:32):
and it's not him?
Speaker 6 (06:33):
Who is it? Yeah?
Speaker 7 (06:34):
Well, I mean the best. So that's again that's where
it gets weird. We all agree he's the best player.
Does that mean he's the MVP for some people? Know,
That's where it gets weird, right, best player and he
just come up with award who's the best player in
the NBA?
Speaker 6 (06:46):
The best player of war goes to period.
Speaker 7 (06:48):
Just call it the best player because so many years
Lebron was the best player for the MVP was Derreck
Ross first, Chack was the best player for a few years,
but it was Steve Nash or you know, because that's
where it gets confusing. Some people vote, I'm giving the
MVP the voye value of player because they're the best.
Some people vote, well, it's based on their team and
if that person, if you subtract them from that team.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
See.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I think I think that it's just changed because everybody
thinks everybody should win stuff and that I don't. I
don't have I don't think you need to the MVP
shouldn't change. It should just be the best player, Uh,
the best player in the league.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (07:23):
But I'm with you, but no, we don't call it that.
It's no.
Speaker 7 (07:25):
But if you took him off this team or then
he doesn't have her the help sometimes can it just
be the best player the league? Was Michael Jordan period,
But that's just eight nine times maybe more. But I'm
just saying anyone, Hi only got five MP's rob g
you had a question.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, So to go back to you guys, you original
point about yokis because the MVP is a whole different
ball of ways.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
We could talk about that all show if.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
He wanted to.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
But Magic Johnson said at the beginning of that clip
and early on in the podcast, you know, Nikola Jokic
is just so good. He's one of the all time
great centers already, that's the way he'starting. He's that good
of a player. He's gonna have that kind of hardware.
The question, though, is because Magic says when you guys
said so, he's also a defensive liability. So when we're
having that hypothetical conversation twenty years from now, like, hey,
(08:07):
the greatest players of all time? Can Jokisch, even with
his offensive capabilities and all the accolades he's gonna have,
can he be seriously considered amongst the top five or
ten players?
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Ever?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
If he's acknowledged of being a turnstile on the other end.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
I think I say no, just off the surface of that.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
But even have to have such numbers and demod like
nine MVPs, you know what I mean, something something that's
just rob g and not.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
He didn't.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
He wasn't the first to have a thirty twenty game.
He had a forty thirty thirty game or something.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
It would have to be something of that ilk to
what you'll be like, Okay, I know the defensive thing,
but dude, this guy could not Yeah, Ween be there.
He's supposed to be there. He's supposed to be that.
This dude demolished the league. He one we wound up
winning three early MVPs and an he won five in
a row like something like that.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Is because with the closest comp be like Larry Bird.
That's that's why there is like a great defender. Now
he's still viewed as one of the top Tom Good
reach that same trajectory.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
I say, yes.
Speaker 7 (09:18):
But the challenge, while he's gonna be hard to crack,
it is because when you start listening, first of all,
everybody always says, somebody, Steph Curry's top ten, and you
gotta relax because once you start naming.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And that top ten, there's thirty five people, right exactly
because it gets crazy.
Speaker 7 (09:31):
But if you look at let's just say a roundabouts
top ten, so Jordan clearly right, you're not going there
both great on both ends. You start looking at the
top ten, Rogie, that's one of the things they do
have in their factor. If you want to put Tim
Duncan in there, we know that you want to put
Kobe in it. We know that Lebron in there. We
know that tem Olajuan, we know that. So like he's
started to get a lot of the guys that you
(09:52):
will play Bill Russell if you want to put him
in there. Literally, that was his best part was the defense.
A lot of those guys are known for being on
both sides of the ball, so it would be hard
to knock out one of those. Like is he better
than Ni kim Elajuan stats? Maybe yeah, But like I
don't know because the last point I'll make he has
the benefit. And I always love hearing when they talk
(10:13):
about this. So Keem always said, man, he should talk
to Kenny Smith. He who say, Kenny, you have it easy.
Kenny say why why big man? He would say, because
you only got a once every few nights. You got
to go up against somebody every night. I'm going up
against David Robinson, Shack Alonzo morning to Ken Bae Matombo
like he was going up you know, just doing gewing
like night after night Rick Smith's he's Biggs night after night,
(10:36):
really talented bigs and Jokis does have advantage and he
doesn't have to do what is it and beating is out.
He's hardly plays off the top of your neck, off
top of your head. AD's always hurt. But here's the thing, though,
who is he going up against night and night out?
And I'm not taking away he's only beating who's in front.
But I'm saying that was one thing you might but.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
But to me that would be a nitpick and that's fair.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
But the other part is he's destroyed all the like
what he's supposed to do, no but but with nobody
there and when he has played some of these guys
he still has played, you know what I mean, It's
not like, okay, when he plays when there's when there's
somebody there, he says his numbers are bad.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
That's not the case.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
And that and that's the only way you could look
at it, because it's not fair to say you can't
count him. I mean, we know this Will Chamberlain when
he was playing in the league and dominated to change
all the rules because he was the biggest guy there, right,
Nobody they couldn't guard him.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
They couldn't go there to change the rules to stop him.
Speaker 7 (11:36):
No, that without a doubt the head. You couldn't stand
in the paint. You couldn't done You can't do this,
can do that. But that's what my last point. J
played his whole college career. He couldn't dunk.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
In dunk in college.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
with Rob Parker and kelvin Washington weekdays at seven pm
Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
App five And we did have Jimmy King on earlier.
But the Fab five legendary basketball team they went to
The five freshmen went to the National championship game. Their
first year went back as sophomoror and they took an
L and bolt. We got the legendary Chris Webber time out.
I was the year one right, and then that two
(12:19):
year two. So they were a great basketball team. They
were iconic, they changed styling basketball. They would people traveled
around to see them, like the Beatles. I mean, they
were really big, but as I said earlier with Jimmy King,
never even won a Big Ten title like which is shocking.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
As good as they were.
Speaker 8 (12:39):
It's always about winning. And but that's why we were
a little different, in a little special in the senses
that we didn't win anything, but we are still remembered
as you know, people who who changed the game, who
had the opportunity and probably should win. But it also
points to how hard it is to win, how difficult
(13:01):
it is to win, and the best teams don't always
win in college basketball win it's a one and done format.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
And I hear that, and that's all legitimate by Jimmy King,
who is one of the Fab five.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
And it is hard to win. I get that.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
But if you want to be iconic and remembered now,
I think when I think of the Fab Five is
that they didn't win. I don't think about the big short,
oversized shorts. I don't think about all the other stuff.
I think, how did they not win? And here's the
thing that people kills me. Well, they were freshmen, dude,
you got to the championship game. And my point is,
(13:38):
had they won, you wouldn't go. That doesn't count. They
were only freshmen. No, it would be the am I right,
you wouldn't count it. So you can't have it like
I hear that with Lebron all the time. Well they
got to the finals against the Spurs, but you can't
really like hold that against them. Would that count that
he won? Yeah, okay, so it counts that he lost.
And the same thing the Fab five. Okay, you didn't
(14:01):
win your first year, but then the second year you
came back right your experience and you still didn't win.
And then the Chris Webber and the timeout and all
that that people always remember. And when you only had
two cracks at it, right, I don't look at them
and think.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Iconic for the other stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I think of, they didn't get it done, they didn't
finish the deal. They met the girl at the party,
they talked they exchanged numbers, they didn't seal the deal.
Can you be iconic without winning? And I think the
(14:44):
answer is no, you can be infamous. And that's why
we bring up the Buffalo Bills all the time. It
ain't about going to four straight Super Bowls.
Speaker 6 (14:58):
It's not.
Speaker 7 (15:00):
I couldn't disagree with you any of all the things
we've ever talked about. I might disagree with you more
on this than just about anything. The fact that they
were five freshmen, which is common now, that's just normal.
Part of it is because of them that you can, oh,
I can have five freshmen that can start and ball
and get me to a national championship game. That's commonplace now,
(15:23):
it wasn't then. That's part of what makes it iconic,
the ideal that I'm gonna play these They didn't even
start as starters in the beginning of the first few
games because.
Speaker 6 (15:32):
It was like, oh, this is not what we do.
Speaker 7 (15:34):
Even though they're kicking his juniors and seniors button practice,
just just as in what we do, we can't do that.
Then eventually Steve Fisher said, man, I'm tripping. Do you
see these dudes get in here and start shout out
to Rob Pulinka obviously gim of the Lakers. He was
on that team. He had to go to the bench
as a senior. Go have a seat. We got this
iconic freshman team that's gonna do something. You mentioned a
style that matters because it carries to this day. Baggy close.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
The black people saw when Black Baggie closed anymore war
you cant they wear the short shorts.
Speaker 7 (16:02):
Maggie's coming back. Give it one more year to be
all over. Baggie is back. Have you not shorts? I'm saying,
give it one more you know it's coming back. Everybody
was absolutely the ball heads when they had all had hair,
can have high top phase, they all go bald. They
were iconic. They were in music and rap videos. People
reference them that last forever. You don't remember so many
(16:25):
teams that actually won the national championship. Now, on a
personal level, yes, the guys would have wanted to win.
Nobody questions that we.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
All want you saying that it doesn't matter, So why
would who doesn't say what I'm to be iconic is
what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
It doesn't matter because this team is iconic. Loser, can
you not? Can you be the Buffalo Bills?
Speaker 7 (16:45):
They are more iconic, way more iconic than the Buffalo bills.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
You but but you could look at some somebody and
go the buffalo okay when you say Buffalo bills, right right.
It's not about getting to something or wearing shorts. You're
playing basketball and ultimately the goal in sports is to win.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
But okay, let me gotta let you cook. Let me
talk Muhammad A Lee. He lost way more than we
have a reference. But it was not just because he
was beating people. It was what he was doing, how
he was saying, what he meant for, what he stood for.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
It was more than just the actual boxing.
Speaker 7 (17:27):
Because there are plenty of people who some argue Sugar
Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard uh, some people argue Mayweather
that were better boxers. Some people can say it was
all the things and that's what makes you an iconic.
Not it's Jordan, but it's the tongue out, it's the winning,
for sure, It's the shoes, it was the bagging. Michael
(17:49):
Tim Duncan's zotta no.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
But Michael Jordan, you gotta mix that because he hear
me out. I'm hear Tim Duncan doesn't have anything other
than the winning right. Okay, So Michael Jordan, you're talking
about the shoes, the tongue out, all that other stuff,
the pumping up the fist, that all goes with the
winning that makes him up up college basketball. My thing
(18:11):
with the Fab five is other than baggy shorts and
black socks.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
Seriously, what is it? I will gladly answer that.
Speaker 7 (18:20):
They were authentically them that you gotta remember, that's commonplace now, Rob,
That wasn't commonplace then for them to talk the way
they talk, that swag, for them to be and like
I said, for rap videos to reference them, that wasn't
happening then.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
That was a movement at the time.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
I think that's you because you grew up there.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
That has nothing to do with it. Because another that
was like, really do.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
I think it's because you.
Speaker 6 (18:45):
I'm gonna give you another example.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
You know who never won anything, but you could argue
his top five most influential dudes in the NBA Alan Iverson.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
He didn't win anything.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
You can't name but a handful of players who are
more iconic than Alan Iverson because it was what he did,
what he meant, what he still for, the good, the bad,
the ugly. He was himself and they were authentically themselves,
young dudes from the inner city who came they didn't
want to play the game.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
What you're talking about, what you're talking about, and.
Speaker 7 (19:12):
They got to two NBA, I mean two national championships
as freshman and sophomore, back when that was uncommon.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
For first of one point is to seal the deal.
To really make your mark in college basketball to me
is about winning. Couldn't disagree more.
Speaker 7 (19:27):
And you can't name me three to four teams that
are more impactful than them historically.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Even when you talk about a guy like Christian lad
who's one of the greatest college basketball they won championship
and but that's why, that's why he's iconic, That's why
people consider him one of the all time greats. I'm
saying they missed the boat and really cementing themselves other
(19:53):
than the you're talking about superficial stuff.
Speaker 7 (19:56):
I'm talking about the game. They put three dudes also
in the NBA. One's a Hall of Famer, Juan Howard
played a million years, made all the money, had a
really good career, but playing roads. I'm saying this is
all leads to why they're iconic.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I think that in order to really stamp yourself, just
like the coaches we talk about just about you gotta
be there. You're not playing just to be playing. Had
they won that, then.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
They would be the greatest team ever right up there.
That I agree. If they had they won one or two,
let say they went, people would.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Have been like, oh my god, Now that would have
been a story, and that would have been something you
woul talk about the all time greatest. When you talk
about great college basketball teams, Michigan is not at the top.
Speaker 7 (20:37):
But what I'm saying is rob But you can't name
me but three teams that are talked about more in
college basketball history, including all the winners. FAB five legacy
will go infinitely better than ninety seven percent of the
teams that won. I mean, we're gonna be talking about
(20:57):
Fab five for the next fifty to one hundred years,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Think about the scandals, I think about all the banners
they took down.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
I think about the non winning of.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
As I just think about nobody think about what they
think about. It's all context, right, and the context says
you have to remember what they were doing was unprecedented
at that time for freshmen.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
That's a huge notice but they got to the championship.
It would be different if they never got there. My
point is, once you get there, you can win. You
got to the championship game. You can't use that as nobody.
Nobody in the freshman or sophomore got.
Speaker 6 (21:38):
You got.
Speaker 7 (21:39):
What I'm saying, that makes them amazing. That's literally the
fab five, the fabulous five fresh to me.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
That's where I look at them and say, ultimately what
their success or failure? They failed, that that group failed.
You just talked about the three guys who went on
to the NBA. You got three guys of that level
and that ilk and you can win a college basketball championship.
Speaker 7 (22:02):
Why it happens some of the teams with no NBA
dudes win, I mean or baby won. That's just that's
nature the beast. But absolutely, this is one of the
most iconic teams period. I don't even think I can't
even believe that where debating is right now. I'm looking
at all these teams right now who won a championship.
You ain't never gonna mention again a day in your life.
Nineteen ninety four, Arkansas, because you mention in your life.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
For you, winning doesn't seem to matter.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
No winning, No, winning doesn't matter to you. You just
you're like that, you like the extra stuff I'm talking
about having being iconic winning and where you look back
and go when I think of when I think of
Derek Jeter and the Yankees and that five champs. They
won five championships. He made great plays. He was an
(22:47):
ultimate great player. When I look at his career, and
you can look at right now, Aaron judgekind all the
home runs he wants. Okay, where those pinstripes, MVP all that.
Trust me, people will look at it and say, which
guy was the most iconic Yankee? And it would be
Derek g to ten times out of ten. Here's where
here's where we have one. He also played many one.
(23:10):
Here's where you're where we differ. You're making it a
singular thing. Winning is iconic.
Speaker 7 (23:16):
I'm saying absolutely, But I'm also saying there are the
rare sessions of exceptions where teams or a player is iconic.
Despite Michael Vick is iconic. Do you remember the Michael
Vick era. Michael Vick era was the Michael Vick was
the thing. Michael Vick was it more than even teams,
(23:36):
the guys who won Michael Vick was who was more iconic,
Joe Flacco or Michael Vick. Michael Vick was a thing
for about a six year period.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, but the choice just because you picked any quel
give win one, Brad Johnson. It's not just that I said,
it's a combination of bowl.
Speaker 7 (23:55):
I'm saying the rare exceptions where you don't have Alan
Iver say you have to Willnesley icon they win nothing.
You you can't name me, but three four players who
are more iconic than AI.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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listen live.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Somebody had a big game, I think last night. Rob
jik Kida explain.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
That's right now, there's two sides to this coin, specifically
on the odd couple. All right, if you are a
guy like Kelvin Washington, everything is great. You're gonna say, man.
Brownie James played a career high thirty minutes last night.
Scored a career high seventeen points, seven to ten shooting.
He had five assists, three rebounds on a block as well.
In the process, became the youngest Laker rookie since Magic
(24:49):
Johnson to record seventeen points and five assists while shooting
at least seventy percent from the floor.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
It's incredible performance.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
There's a lot of factors by the fifty fifth pick
the NBA Draft, but if you're Rob Parker, you can
also point out that Bronnie James only got in the
game because the Lakers basically sat their entire top seven
in the rotation, that they ended up losing that game
by twenty nine points of the Milwaukee Bucks, and that
(25:18):
Bronnie James in thirty minutes of action was not quite
a team worse, but only a team worse minus thirty
six while he was on the floor for plus minus.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
Rob Parker, your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
On the Bronnie James performance and the conversation that come
out of last night.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I'm trying to really put my thoughts together, because once
again people have overreacted. Who in the world trumpets a
seventeen point performance in a twenty nine point loss where
the game was never really in doubt with all the
injuries and whatnot. Seriously, I mean, really, that's the game.
(26:00):
I remember when he was in Philadelphia and they gave
him some extended minutes and he looked like a fish
out of water. You remember that game, And where was
Lebron James talking about leave the kid alone?
Speaker 6 (26:14):
Where was that tweet about the mean media?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Oh it was okay that all the talking heads on
TV this morning.
Speaker 6 (26:22):
We're big up in Bronni.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Now, I thought you wanted everybody to leave malone so
that the kid could develop and just play. Oh, today
was good because it was positive.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
Oh yeah, did you see my boy? Did you see
the kid? You see what he was able to do.
I told you he could play.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
There's a difference, all of Bronni's points, all of his
stats garbage time.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
That wasn't a real game. That was not a real game.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
If he did that in Philadelphia, when that earlier this year,
when they put him.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
In sending minutes, you'd get my attention. I don't value
this at all.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
There's a difference between games meaningful. That's what it is.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
That called garbage minutes. Why do we come up with that, Calvin,
Any points are good.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
You play basketball, right, No, we know there's garbage time.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
In baseball. We call it the mop up.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Right when the game's out of hand and you put
people in Oh yeah, yeah, mop up, dude, he pitched
four innings a mop up.
Speaker 6 (27:33):
That means there was a mess there. There was nothing there,
there was no game.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I'm sorry people going crazy and wigging out over Brownie.
I just I didn't see any value in it other
than the kid got to play because there was nobody
else to play and the game was never in doubt.
Speaker 5 (27:53):
Any played. That's it. That's it. That's all I took
from it.
Speaker 7 (27:56):
This is where you're in my opinion, I don't think
you're missing it. It's it's not that people are like
old Brownie has seventeen he's the greatest player of all time.
What they're seeing is confidence. What they're seeing is development.
What they're seeing is him get to his spots. What
they're seeing is them shooting shots that he didn't want
to shoot in Philadelphia, he didn't want to shoot in
(28:17):
other times. He is starting to develop, and that's all
you can ask for from any rookie young player is development,
and there should not be people reading into it too
much as if all of a sudden he is a
first top, you know, first tier rookie in the league
and he needs to be Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Candidate.
Speaker 8 (28:34):
No.
Speaker 7 (28:35):
I think people are celebrating him because they've somebody they
literally have seen their entire lives. A lot of these
players come in sixteen, seventeen, you know them, eighteen, Okay,
now they're in the league. We literally have seen him
his entire life, and so I think a lot of
people are just celebrating a kid they've seen grow up,
not necessarily saying, oh, look at him, now he's rookie
(28:55):
of the Year.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
I think that's overblown. Rob nobody's saying that.
Speaker 7 (28:59):
I think will people saying, was, Wow, look at Bronnie
out here playing with some confidence.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
Look at Bronnie out here getting the spots.
Speaker 7 (29:04):
Look at Brownnie, ooh nice left hand labeled little body
on a little and one okay, And that's what I
think you saw. So it's because guess what could happen
tomorrow if they if he played, he could have six
points and he goes, you know, three for twelve, like
that's a very much a possibility.
Speaker 6 (29:21):
He did not turn the corner.
Speaker 7 (29:22):
He's not all of a sudden a top two three
rookie in the in the league right now. But what
people saw and we're making and we're excited about, was
to grow seed development, see confidence, and again seeing it
from somebody that they've seen his entire life. And I've
always said this to you about this conversation. I think
more people are either like him or indifferent than they
(29:44):
are dislike him. Absolutely, there are people who dislike him
or you know, just tired of the whole James family
what out of doubt, But I think more people are
either just oh, yeah, all right, Bronnie whatever, or they're like, oh,
go ahead, Bronnie, I see a young man. So I
think people are just happy to see somebody that it
seems to have been a good kid, someone who has
seems to be.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
That's not what I'm so tired of hearing that there's
a there's a ton of good kids who can't play.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
Stop with that he's a good kid.
Speaker 9 (30:11):
There's a ton there's a lot of guys who led theirs.
Your kid, as if that means that you should be
on the basketball team if you're a good kid. You
know how many kids were good kids who got caught
because they couldn't play.
Speaker 7 (30:26):
Wait, wait, so is a conversation. Now you're saying he
shouldn't be in the court.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Are you saying yeah, because I don't think he should
be with the Lakers. No, I don't, I really don't.
I think he should be with the South Bay whatever
they are, the South Bay Lakers.
Speaker 7 (30:38):
And I told you I would have loved for him
to just spent the year. In the last night with
all the points. He was minus thirty six plus minus.
That's not meaningful basketball. When he played it wasn't doing anything.
And here's that was second worst.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Believe it or not, somebody was even worse than that
at minus thirty seven. All I'm saying to you is
to make it as if on some corner he didn't
do anything.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
Rob, Rob, listen to this starting lineup, Goodwin, Vincent, Hayes,
Morris connect.
Speaker 6 (31:09):
That might be the worst starting lineup. Well, I don't know.
Speaker 7 (31:11):
The Wizards probably put something I was worse, and Broanni
coming off the bench, give you thirty minutes. My point is,
did you think he was gonna be plus thirty six
against literally Giannis.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
And the Bucks.
Speaker 10 (31:21):
No?
Speaker 7 (31:21):
So people went into that game literally just won. It
was almost like a G League experience. Let me watch
him hoop and see what he does. Nobody thought they
were gonna win without their best players, multiple players, so
to analyze this as if it was a real game.
And if you're saying he again, I hope nobody's saying
he turned the corner. What we're saying is, oh, he
(31:44):
had a good night, cause again the next game he
might only have five, six, three points. That's a part
of this process. This is why I and I think
you were with me. I said, I would have loved him,
just say go down there, continue to thrive in a
G league, get your bumps and bruises in the G league.
But you know, and the Lakers didn't want to do that.
So it was a lot of people were happy to
see him have success one night. Nobody's rewriting history and saying,
(32:07):
all of a sudden, he's a top five rookie ever
in history. They're saying that was a fun good night
for a for a young kid who they've seen his
whole life.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
That that's where the NBA is a good fun night.
I just we've really lost it. If if that's what
we're looking at now and just meaningless points in some
meaningless game.
Speaker 6 (32:29):
It's a game. Is something, Come on, ro you get
every single game. It's not something. So what are the
Wizards doing? So what are the Wizards doing and what
are they doing what they.
Speaker 7 (32:39):
Do because they playing their bad that's the worst basketball
you've seen in your life.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Just because they're playing and they're not winning, doesn't mean
they're not trying or they don't build.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
You think that organization, you think that organization is trying
and they can't win stop. And that's the And that's
exactly the point. The Lakers were not going to win
last time. Not there was not there. Brownie wouldn't be there.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
And you know it, you nobody ever, nobody disagree with that.
That's all I'm saying that.
Speaker 7 (33:07):
But what I'm saying, we're past that where were gonna
hop into Delorria and go back.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
No, he Literally, all I'm saying is I'm not going
to raw, raw or celebrate a seventeen point game and
a blowout is if you're saying it was bad players
and everybody was bad, that's what he played against bad people.
I would much rather take a look at when they
put him in Philadelphia in a game that mattered, when
(33:31):
they have players, and he got an extended blow out there.
We saw about that common season has only been four months.
But whatever it is, and whether that's the boy he
literally just got in the league. The whole reason why
people are excited, I think you're missing this is because
it's because they are saying, oh, let's see if he's
(33:52):
been growing, if his confidence and that's what you want
to see in anybody. A pitcher in baseball, a guard
in the NBA, a defensive back in the NFL.
Speaker 6 (34:01):
Are you growing? Are you developing?
Speaker 7 (34:03):
Are we starting to see you get confidence and get
your nobody? No nobody, no, no, no, no, no, nobody was on
his team.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
No terrible team that was. I'm talking about the Lakers.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Somebody has to score, you know, when it's even with
bad teams. Okay, so even the Washington Wizards, they don't
score thirty two points, they'll score one hundred and fifteen
and lose and be terrible.
Speaker 10 (34:24):
You gotta score. It's an NBA game, right, So I'm
saying a score. Come on, man, it's not even what
we're talking about. The Lakers were a horrible team and
what they put out there. The Bucks had everybody bad team.
People will still go to scos. What is my point,
somebody's gotta get the garbage points. Somebody will score. It
doesn't dictate or tell you that he's made a step.
(34:46):
So that's that's that's box believe that. But see that's
just looking at a box score. The point is if
you saw the confidence he was hesitating throughout the year,
he wouldn't shoot that shot.
Speaker 6 (34:56):
He will be like us in a passage. He's confident.
Speaker 5 (34:58):
Okay, yes, he he.
Speaker 7 (35:00):
Was shooting with confidence. He was getting to the rack
with confidence. He's been dunking on people with confidence. That's
what the celebration is. There you go, you're getting confident
and getting to your spots. And that's like a pitcher
in baseball. You're getting confident throwing your throws. You're getting
confident facing big time hitters at the plate.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
You're not squimmish, you're not worrying.
Speaker 7 (35:19):
You're not oh, oh my gosh, it's Mike Trout, Oh
that's Mookie Bets. You're throwing what you throw. If they
hit a home run, that's fine. But you're comfortable throwing
your pitch. And that's what he's doing. He's comfortable taking
his shots getting to the hole. That's what people were celebrating.
It's not he could have did that and had ten points.
But if he looked confidently doing looked like he was
turning a corner or not turn your corner, but look
literally turning corner getting to the hole. People were celebrating
(35:41):
that it's not that they were this was a playoff
game or anything. They put out a terrible roster against
the Bucks, who had everybody except Dame
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.