June 17, 2025 • 26 mins
Rob and Kelvin debate whether or not Tyrese Haliburton is being selfish by insisting on playing through injury during these NBA Finals, tell us what Jalen Williams would have to do to steal the NBA Finals MVP award from Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, and argue whether LeBron James’ anti-Rings Culture sentiment is legitimate or just something he says to help boost his own legacy.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
You're listening to the best of the Odd Couple.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Tyrese Halliburton tried to play through an injury and had
no field goals. What do you have four was it
four points or six points? Yep, four points minus thirteen
out there of the plus minus And I just got
one message to Tyrese Halliburton and to all players who
(00:48):
decide to do what he did yesterday.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Okay, don't play if you're hurt.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I know, I know you want to be out there
for your teammate to try to help, and you don't
want to miss a game it's the NBA Finals, But
you don't help your team when you're injured and you
go out to play. There's no way the Pacers can
have him to have no field goals and four points.
(01:17):
Somebody else could have played and the backup point guard
had what a plus four on the plus minus. So
you look at that, that's like a seventeen point, you know,
turn around right.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
As far as the point guard. But my point is
we've seen this before. It's okay. If you want to
try to do a Willis Reid, rob.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
G can you call up and find out what in
the famous Willis Reed game we limped out here. We
never finish all of that, okay, but you know, but
what people don't know about.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
That is that he didn't play the whole game that
he came out like.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
For support of the new and they wind up winning
the championship and all that, and it's a historic and
a big history of Willis Reed. The captain injured limps
out plays a few minutes in the first quarter to
it for an inspiration.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Brett Farv did it with the Jets the next time.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Carrie Rose is on the radio on Fox Sports where
ask him Jets were.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Eight and three.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Oh my god, they got Brett Farv just gonna be great. Well,
do you have a bicep bicep injury? And guess what
the Jets started eight and three and did not make
the playoffs because he tried to play through it. He
was bad and the Jets didn't win, and there comes
a point where, for the good of the team, you
(02:42):
have to take a step back. You have to be selfish.
You have to say, you know what, I know they
want me to play. I know I'm a big part
of the team, but I can't help them. And everybody
will respect that, even if it just came out as
a token to get out there, to try to mix
it up for a few minutes and let That's why
you have reserves. That's why we've had big moments where
(03:03):
guys have come off the bench and had big contributions. Kelvin,
It's happened all the time, and you go, where'd that
come from?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Oh my, he was.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Waiting for his chance, waiting for his opportunity, waiting for
his moment. That's why he's played for all these years
and putting all his energy.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
We know it. It's a famous story.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Lou Garrick, Right, Wally Pip was the first basement, took
a day off, got in there and never never got
back in.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
But the point is you just made it. That's why he's.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
No but when we come in there taking my spine off.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
But my point is.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
You never know who's sitting behind you that could give
the team a spart could help. That's that's my point.
And of course so so uh it's selfish. There's no
other way of looking at it. At some point the
coach ain't gonna take you out. You gotta say, you
know what, Hey, Ray, I tried, I'm hurting the team.
I'm not helping the team. I'm gonna bow. Let's on
(04:07):
some play.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well, I absolutely get what you're saying, and I do
think there comes a point. But this is why I
think he's going to play in Game six as long
as he medically can. If the doctors just absolutely he
said he can't, then he can't and he won't be
able to do anything about that. But I think what
he's trying to do is a bit of what willis
reed did. I want to give him a spark. I
(04:28):
want to give him some hope. And by now the
good thing is too you get two three days off,
a couple of days off, so you hope that, Okay,
it's manageable.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
I can play through this and Rob.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
While you gave some examples of kind of how it
worked out bad, I think we've seen opposite examples where
guys were sick, guys were hurt and they showed up
and they played great. You know, my first one I'm
gonna go to because it's one of the favorite and
the greatest ever still the most points in a quarter.
Twenty five point from Isaiah Thomas in eighty eight in
the finals, Game six, on that bad ankle that ended
(04:56):
up keeping him out of Game seven. It was so
swollen it was a size of a great food after
the game. But magic, I mean, Isaiah went crazy against
the Lakers there. Twenty five in a quarter on a
limping around the whole court. One of the most spectacular
things athletically I've ever seen. You seen Michael Jordan with
the flu game, right, we know what he did there.
We've seen Luca last year play through those finals and
(05:17):
give him to team a shot last year. And I
just think Tyre's Halliburton, you're going to have to drag
him off the court because one thing you always say,
you always say this is there's no guarantee you can
get back. So I think if it's Tyree's Haliburton is saying,
if I can play, I'm going out here. I'm gonna
be give the best I can. To their credit, they
have TJ McConnell, who's played very well the last couple
(05:39):
of games. And you have that if you're Rick Kyler
in your back pocket to say, all right, I'm gonna
say to Gauge, let me get.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
A flow, because here, real quick, TJ.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
McConnell can't play all of those minutes because it's he
plays in spurts where he can go, you know what,
to the wall all out, give you everything I got
for five minutes here, five minutes there, five minutes there.
He can't be a star because then it changes the game.
It changes who he has to guard. He's great going
up at your second team. He's not starter guy to
(06:07):
go up against your first team all forty eight minutes,
forty two minutes whatever, he would play because now he's
got a guard SGA, he's got a guard Jaylen Williams,
he's got a guard. Other guys he has to go
at them, they're gonna go at him, and it just
it changes the dynamic. He's great off the bench because
that's that spark plug, that energy. So I think Tyreese
Halerbert now absolutely is gonna play, and I think he
won't be one hundred percent, but he'll be over give
(06:29):
them enough. Here's the challenge, though, Rob. You know how
I've been saying, even well before the finals, this whole
playoff run, he has to continuously be aggressive. And I'll
hear some people say he's not a big score, he's
not a volume. That's what you're mixing up what I'm
saying when I say aggression. Aggression from him is looking
to score. At times. First aggression for him is go
(06:51):
ahead and take that shot? Is there, don't I'm swinging
around one more time. No, that's a shot we need
you to take, because Rob, do you know what they
are when he scores twenty or more, they're eight and oh.
When he scores twenty or more, I didn't say thirty.
I didn't say forty. I didn't say fifty. He can
get twenty points. When he scores twenty points in this postseason,
they're eight and oh. And I believe they're six and
(07:14):
seven when he scores less. So he has to be aggressive.
He's the only chance they win in that regard, because
OKC now is cooking.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
They got a couple wins in a row.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
They've smelled blood as in the Larry O'Brien Trophy, and
I think he has to play to give this team
that ignition that they need. Now, you might say I'm
gonnaive him twenty four minutes instead of thirty five forty
and be Rick carlill be smart managing it. But he
absolutely has to play if they any shot to win
and get make this a game sound I just.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
The examples you gave were two of the greatest players
who have ever played, and yeah they have.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
They were productive while they were playing. At some point.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I'm not against you going out and trying once it's
once it's obvious.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Remember he didn't make a field goal.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
You just gave up Michael jo on a flu game
who was knocking down baskets, Isaiah, they were okay, they're
out there. They were performing, so go ahead, keep going.
At some point the coach or the player has to say,
I'm over the game from the field. That's not going
to help the team win.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Mental rocket, I'm saying, you gotta produce it. What I'm saying,
I don't think he that's just not natural for him
to go. Like Isaiah said, I only have a little
bit on this ankle. I'm going crazy.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
You know it. You know you saw it.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, But I'm saying, like those guys performed to where
you wouldn't even question whether or not they should continue.
My question is, at some point, when you're three quarters
in and you don't have a field goal, do you
have to look at it and say, you know, he
got us to this point. Now we need to finish
the game. Let's put somebody in. Let's we need baskets,
(08:50):
we need do you That's what.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I'm absolutely get And that's why I said, Rick Carlos,
this is why we all agree he's a great coach
and he's gonna go in the Hall of Fame, and
this is where he's gonna have to really really earn
that title, if you will, by managing it. But what
I meant was, even in the first half, his mentality.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
In this week.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I know people say, oh, it's gonna be aggressive. It's
just not in his mentality at times. Sometimes he has
to try more. He has to say I'm gonna switch
the game up, I'm gonna go make it a little easy,
I'm gonna start at the elbow, I'm gonna start here.
And it's just not in his mental makeup. And I'm
saying the Pacers are going to need him to change
his mental makeup and try to be more aggressive.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Eight.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
No, with twenty more or more points, we gotta get
you there. But either way it's akon. He got locked up.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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listen live.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
You uh watching, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Obviously, Game five of the NBA Finals, Jaln Williams goes crazy.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
He has forty.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
This is coming off of twenty five I believe it
was in twenty seven and then forty. There's three straight
games of I think ninety one points total in the
last three games for him. He's been incredible. So Rob,
we've seen this happen before, where the kind of the
traditional guy you think is gonna get an MVP. You know,
if it's if it's Steph Curry doesn't happen, it goes here,
If it's Jason Tatum doesn't happen, and so on and
(10:10):
so forth down the line.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
We might be in a situation where.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
If this ends in game six, May it doesn't really
matter game seven as well, but specifically the game six
for this argument's sake, I think Jalen Williams may mess
around and steal this thing if he has another thirty
five point game and SGA just kind of does what
he does, say it's twenty six, twenty seven to twenty eight,
just a normal game for him. Jalen Williams might mess
around and steal this MVP, but it's gonna have to
(10:35):
be something spectacular. I think he's gonna have to absolutely dominate.
I think he's gonna have, you know, like I said,
thirty five to forty because traditionally, you're gonna give it
to the guy of a team if it comes down
to being close, right, you're gonna just say we're gonna
give it to the guy, and in this case, the
MVP of the league. So Jalen Williams's only chance to
steal it will be agetting another thirty five to forty
point performance where you can go.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Not always Steph Curry didn't win it? How did they
give it? And I know you don't like him, but
can you what what do you mean?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I don't like it, not anything personally talking about him,
don't like cool Lebron.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Why couldn't they give it to Lebron? You don't give it?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I mean, like really like you're actually let me ask
you this from a you know, voting stand you don't give.
I'm really asking from a vote you have. I know
his hall of fame is at name, you know, NBA
Finals vote. But I'm just saying, if the best player
in this thing by far, But mind you, I get
if it's close, right, then obviously gonna go to winning team.
But it's not even close by far. It was Lebron
like not even in the same strategy you gotta win.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Can there be the.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
One time you got Jerry West in another time fifty
years later? Meaning like if every forty.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Because they knew when they did it with Jerry West
it was ridiculous that the only way you could it
could be is if he totally played grade and somebody
made a miraculous shot at the end to win it.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
You know what I mean. And if it was around
the rim exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
And other than that, like in Game seven and the
guy has a lucky shot that drops him, but he
totally dominated. I could see in the situation where that,
but when you lose the series, it's got to go
to a player who helped the team win in the championship.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
I just I'm with that ninety nine point nine percent
of the time.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
But I think when you see something that was just
so drastic, like him taking Timothy mosk Off and Tristan
Thompson and Matthew dela Vedova to Game six against the Warriors,
I just think and avaging like thirty five, twelve and
twelve or whatever. Every nine again, Rob, I mean, even
if it was if it was a World series, if
some guy had seven.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Home runs, I would never I never believe in that
because when when the Angels beat the Giants and Barry
bound and had all these home runs and it was
a seven game series and they lost, he didn't.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
He didn't get I just feel like every nine again,
you name the sport, you see something that's so incredible,
you gotta go. Okay, I disagree with that, but yeah,
we'll see if Jaylen Williams again, I think he does
another light like last night. He has a chance to
steal this from SGA, but it's gonna be hard because
he is the reigning MVP.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Be sure to catch live editions of the Couple with
Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington weekdays at seven pm Eastern
four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
By this time next week, we will have a new champion.
We will have a new member of the rings club
in basketball history. Rings culture, of course, has been pervasive
throughout sports media for about a decade at least, maybe
even longer than that. And Lebron James, in the latest
episode of the Mind the Game podcast with Steve Nash,
(13:30):
was taking some listener questions on the show. One of
them was, Hey, Lebron, you got four rings. Why don't
you tell us your thoughts on rings culture?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Take a listen.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
Funny, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why I
was discussed so much in our sport And why is
the all be all of everything. You sit here and
tell me. You know, Alan Iverson and Charles Barkley and
Steve Nash, you know, you know, wasn't unbelievable Like, oh,
(13:59):
they can't be talked about or discussed with these guys
is because this guy won one ring or won two
rings or one like it's just it's just weird to me.
It's like saying Peyton Manning can't be in the same
room with Brady or Mahomes because he only has one ring.
They don't never discuss that in the sport or telling
me that Damn Marino is not the greatest slinger of
all time, or he can't be in the room with
(14:21):
those guys because he didn't win a championship. They don't
discuss those things.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Once again, if he had enough rings to be considered
the greatest, it would be.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Okay, this is a typical Lebron.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
He doesn't feel like he's gonna get there and that's
gonna be held against him, So now he's gonna down
play the ring. If it wasn't about that, Lebron, and
if Steve Nash had any kind of book, expect to
hear this. Okay, No, if he had anything, then I
would have said, Lebron, why did you leave Cleveland and
go to Miami chasing rings?
Speaker 4 (14:55):
You're the one who did it. You're the one away
who ran away.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Want to put together a super team so that you
could win rings?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
You would have wanted to were afraid not to win.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
A championship as great as you were as a player.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
That's right now he's saying.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
He's talking about being a great winning rings because that's
what he wanted to win.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Such a phony.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I'm so tired of hearing this on one hand, he
talking about I don't know, talking about rings or whatever.
He's the one Calvin that wasn't somebody imitating him. He's
the one talking up about seven rings. He's the one
who left Cleveland's hometown and went to go chase rings
(15:42):
in Miami. He's the one who keeps leaving, who came
to LA to chase rings.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Because he looked at Michael Jordan.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
And if you look at Michael Jordan's career and you
think it's just about rings, you got your You're mistaken.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Michael Jordan was a great player, led the league ins.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Oran ten times. I could go over and over the
all time leading scorer in the postseason. It was more
than just the six rings. This whole notion. And if
Steve Nash had anything, oh, you could have said, you know, Lebron,
Peyton did win two championship, Well Peyton Hodi got one exactly.
But my point is this is total garbage on Lebron's point,
(16:24):
on part the only reason if Lebron had eight or
ten rings, you think he would be talking about the
number of rings people counting.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Of course he would not such a phony.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I'm so tired of hearing guys make an excuse when
it doesn't fit their narrative. He has to be able
to talk about longevity and all this other stuff to
be able to begin sit the great. It's not that
you have to win a ring to be great. Okay,
you can be a great player. I'll sit here and
tell you Charles Barkley was a great player. Steve Nash
(16:58):
won two MVPs. No one's gonna say he won't a
great player in the NBA. But when you talk about
the greatest of all time, I don't know if anybody
who's the greatest of anything who didn't win at some
point in their life. Dann Marino was a hell of
a quarterback. I'm gonna sit here and tell you he's
the best quarterback ever and he never won. Come on, man, nobody,
(17:20):
how many times you have to bring up Marv Levy.
He went the four straight Super Bowls as the coach
four Not one time I've ever heard anybody say Marv
Levy's the greatest coach in NFL history.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
You know why, because he didn't win.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
That's why we keep score, That's why we hand out trophies.
It does matter. Stop trying to say that winning doesn't matter.
It does matter when you're talking about putting somebody ahead
of everybody in saying they're the greatest that ever did something.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
That's all I'm saying. I actually, I actually agree with
that last statement. I think when you're talking about the pantheons, right,
I gotta start to nitpick Lebron, I gotta start bringing
those things up.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
But I want to I'm gonna reverse it here.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So then let me let me reverse and start from
the beginning here from where you just ended it. I
do believe there was a genesis. I do believe there
was a point when something kind of changed. And I
think when you just mentioned Lebron leaving, I think a
large part of why he was leaving was this. I
think Lebron, we knew the talent was there. He's MVPs,
(18:23):
he's going. He went to the finals in seven, but
he loses, and I think all he starts to hear
because this, remember, this modern era is an advent of
debait shows daily every single day, the advent of social media.
This is a hearing of things, these conversations daily, daily, daily, daily, daily,
and we all know Lebron gets in the league, he
becomes the hot topic. Lebron the Cowboys and the Lakers
or Yankees. You know, make sure you watch Rins repeat
(18:45):
say that every week, every day, the greatest hits. And
so I think when he starts to hear, oh, he's
not a Kobe, Well he he scores more than Kobe,
he's a better passing code.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Well he's not a Kobe because Kobe won.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Well, he can't be Jordan because Jordan one, and I
think what starts to happen with him was was shoot.
I can be MVPs. I can be in the finals
and lose. I can be an All Star. My team
can win fifty five sixty games. But if I don't win,
people are gonna never put me on this place. So
I have to go to find a win. Because Cleveland
obviously didn't put anything around him at that time. So
I think he jumped ship and I think that same
(19:19):
thing happened to Kevin Durant. Well, dang, I'm starting balling out.
I'm an All Star, second best player in the league.
For all these years, I've been to the finals, you know,
with the back in what was it twenty eleven, but
twenty twelve. But no one's gonna say anything about this
unless I win I think we started to have with
these guys were so worried about if I don't win,
and I started to freak out because I do believe
(19:41):
the ring culture started to be a conversation when we
were back in back in the day. There's somebody who
said Will Chamberlain was the best player in the league ever.
Best you know what, the best player ever was Will Chamberlain.
He had a ring. Bill Russell had eleven, but they
felt Will Chamberlain was more dominiqu's best player in the league.
Somebody said, no, hold on loud, that should talk for
quite a bit. Larry Bird was the best player in
(20:02):
the ever to them. A lot of people, well he
had one, then he had two, then he had three,
and for them, that was what they saw. I remember
Larry Reggie Miller being that guy. He could have been
your favorite player and people would have been like, oh,
that's your favorite player, okay, cool. I know, may Michael
Jordan be given to him. But the end conversation was
never always rings. I do think we've gotten obsessed with
rings over the last feteen years. We've gotten lazy with
(20:24):
our contextualizing things. We've gotten lazy with our analysis. Where
you go Shack can't even get something for chuckle. But
let me tell you, I got four rings. You don't
have any, And it becomes lazy everything. Well he's got
five rings. Who he's got six rings. Well he's got
three rings. He hadn't won a ring. That's the laziest thing.
So I do believe, I agree that is a massive
part of the equation. And if he's starting it picking
(20:45):
if I'm talking about Steph, I'm talking about Karee, I'm
talking about King, you gotta start having those conversations right
the little bit.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Okay, he's better here, he has more rings. That's a
part of the equation.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
But I do believe there are some people that close
their eyes blindly and go who he's got more rings?
Who he's got more because that's all they've heard from
debate shows, that's all they've heard on social media for
last fifteen to twenty years. Yawn is so boring and
there's no ability to con sexualize or have a conversation
with nuanced conversation. I absolutely strongly believe that people have
(21:14):
done that. And my last point, and I think this
is a compliment to somebody in particular. I think this
is a compliment to Kobe Bryant. You say how, I'll
tell you how. Kobe Bryant was the first real person
that we saw that you could legitimately have a conversation,
Is he on par with Jordan? Harold Minor, Baby, get
out of here, Gret Hill, he's the next Jordan? Heck
of a player? Not that Alan Ivers said, no, he's
(21:36):
heck of a player. Not that Kobe Bryant was the
first person you started to go look like him, talk
like him, sound like him, chew gum like him, same size,
shoot like him, fade away like him. Oh shoot, he
just won three straight rings, just like him. And it
was the first time we started to have a conversation
of could he be the next door? Could he be
as good? Could he be better? He's even younger because
(21:58):
he came straight out of high school. Immediately we start saying, no,
I can't because Jordan has six, Okay, well, let Kobe
keep going. Then he gets four, then he gets five.
Well he's already lost a couple sides, so he can
never be sure. And it started that conversation. Then Lebron comes,
is he better than Kobe? No, because Kobe had five,
And that's when It started because Kobe was so good
to great that we started the question, dang, is he
(22:18):
better than mine?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
And we had hurry up and rationalized while he couldn't
be to me.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I agree that it's a part of the conversation for sure,
but people have gotten lazy rob and make it I disagree.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
I disagree. I think it fits people's narrative. If Lebron
was ten and zero in the finals, there's no way
hes sit here and tell you about rings.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
The reason that Will Chamberlain never really got the credit.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
That he deserves and broke all the records, and that
is because he didn't win enough. Not that he didn't win,
he didn't win enough to dominate as much as he did.
People thought he should have won more, and that's what
helped hurt him. When you're talking about the greatest, this
is not a conversation of whether someone he's good. Nobody's
gonna question whether Charles Barkley was a great player or
(23:04):
Steve Nash's two m vps.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
It's about the greatest of all that is the conversation.
I agree what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
That's the only time that you take everything into consideration
and you nitpick when you want to crown some But
I think it was not about but.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
No, it's not just but but.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
See that's the only thing that matters, because that's not true.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
No, I'm actually with you on that last part. When
I am talking about the greatest of the great, I
have to do that.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
I win to somebody the greatest of all time.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But but I don't think that's the overall context of
what was being said here. I think what we're doing
is immediately dismissing Chris Paul as one of the best.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Points.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
He didn't win a ring. He didn't and that so
not the greatest. I agree with you in the greatest
con because now I have to nitpick, Okay, well how
many of this or how many that, because it's we're
talking to.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
The greatest players. It's not that Chris Paul isn't a
great player. But I'm gonna look at I'm serious, I'm
going to discount Isaiah Thomas for Chris Paul. When Isaiah
Thomas one Championships didn't have another top fifty player. I mean, like, like,
there's more to it. It ain't just that Isaiah one two. Okay,
(24:14):
It's a lot more than that. And that's what's lazy
is when people talk about play.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
It ain't just that.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
But that's what I'm saying about a lot of people
do that now, rob And that's the culture.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Now for twenty years and they started, that's when it started.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Was no, and that is not all it was.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
We never sat there and just because what conversation would
there really be if it's just about if it's just.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
About wing, what conversation would what we have?
Speaker 1 (24:45):
You've done these and that's what they do that because
it goes out. Will he get more rings? Will he
get more ring? Who does he need to win another ring?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Ring?
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Ring? Ring?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Let me ask you this, and this is a genuine
like a genuine question in that Bay questions. I'm not
trying to set you. I'm really asking your opinion. Who's
who's better? Who would you rather have? Kevin Garnett or
Charles Barkley. There's no wrong. I'm literally just asking you.
So this ain't a setup or nothing. Charles Barkley who
didn't win a ring. Do you know how many people
would never say that? I don't, but you know what
(25:18):
I'm saying, Rogerie, you feel me. They would say never
say that because their media default, because they've been traineding wired.
They've been trained and wired the last fifteen years ago.
You don't have any rings, Kevin Garnett. Why because he
got a ring, Dirk or Charles Barkley? Dirk why he
wanted did you see a run at ring?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
No?
Speaker 4 (25:33):
And like, man, you.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Must have never saw Charles Barkley's.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
And that's where we've gotten. I know that's the kind
of say.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
What you're doing is you're letting Lebron off the hook,
which is if this ring thing was in his favor,
I swear to you he would not be on it
on that talking about the ring that rings don't matter.
This is because he's lost so many and in a
lot of people's mind.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
He lost too many.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
He's lost more than these on and if that wasn't
the case, and if Lebron was also six and zero
and the all time leading scorer and whatnot, he would
not be trying to discount the rings. He only discounts
it because it doesn't work for his narrative. Why would
you want that to count when you've lost six times?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I think that's where we'll disagree. I think he's saying
it's going to that becoming the end all be all
not that it doesn't matter. He's been trying to win
him to the tune of what ten to eleven?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
That's that's why he's got a suitcase next to his basketball.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I think it has been that it's the we have
become blinded and can't contextualize and have a good conversation
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to check us out live every weekday from
four to seven pm Pacific seven to ten pm Eastern
on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The
Odd Couple on Fox Sports Radio dot Com, or stream
us every day on the iHeartRadio by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You're listening to the best of the Odd Couple.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Tyrese Halliburton tried to play through an injury and had
no field goals. What do you have four was it
four points or six points? Yep, four points minus thirteen
out there of the plus minus And I just got
one message to Tyrese Halliburton and to all players who
(00:48):
decide to do what he did yesterday.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Okay, don't play if you're hurt.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I know, I know you want to be out there
for your teammate to try to help, and you don't
want to miss a game it's the NBA Finals, But
you don't help your team when you're injured and you
go out to play. There's no way the Pacers can
have him to have no field goals and four points.
(01:17):
Somebody else could have played and the backup point guard
had what a plus four on the plus minus. So
you look at that, that's like a seventeen point, you know,
turn around right.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
As far as the point guard. But my point is
we've seen this before. It's okay. If you want to
try to do a Willis Reid, rob.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
G can you call up and find out what in
the famous Willis Reed game we limped out here. We
never finish all of that, okay, but you know, but
what people don't know about.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
That is that he didn't play the whole game that
he came out like.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
For support of the new and they wind up winning
the championship and all that, and it's a historic and
a big history of Willis Reed. The captain injured limps
out plays a few minutes in the first quarter to
it for an inspiration.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Brett Farv did it with the Jets the next time.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Carrie Rose is on the radio on Fox Sports where
ask him Jets were.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Eight and three.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Oh my god, they got Brett Farv just gonna be great. Well,
do you have a bicep bicep injury? And guess what
the Jets started eight and three and did not make
the playoffs because he tried to play through it. He
was bad and the Jets didn't win, and there comes
a point where, for the good of the team, you
(02:42):
have to take a step back. You have to be selfish.
You have to say, you know what, I know they
want me to play. I know I'm a big part
of the team, but I can't help them. And everybody
will respect that, even if it just came out as
a token to get out there, to try to mix
it up for a few minutes and let That's why
you have reserves. That's why we've had big moments where
(03:03):
guys have come off the bench and had big contributions. Kelvin,
It's happened all the time, and you go, where'd that
come from?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Oh my, he was.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Waiting for his chance, waiting for his opportunity, waiting for
his moment. That's why he's played for all these years
and putting all his energy.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
We know it. It's a famous story.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Lou Garrick, Right, Wally Pip was the first basement, took
a day off, got in there and never never got
back in.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
But the point is you just made it. That's why he's.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
No but when we come in there taking my spine off.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
But my point is.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
You never know who's sitting behind you that could give
the team a spart could help. That's that's my point.
And of course so so uh it's selfish. There's no
other way of looking at it. At some point the
coach ain't gonna take you out. You gotta say, you
know what, Hey, Ray, I tried, I'm hurting the team.
I'm not helping the team. I'm gonna bow. Let's on
(04:07):
some play.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well, I absolutely get what you're saying, and I do
think there comes a point. But this is why I
think he's going to play in Game six as long
as he medically can. If the doctors just absolutely he
said he can't, then he can't and he won't be
able to do anything about that. But I think what
he's trying to do is a bit of what willis
reed did. I want to give him a spark. I
(04:28):
want to give him some hope. And by now the
good thing is too you get two three days off,
a couple of days off, so you hope that, Okay,
it's manageable.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
I can play through this and Rob.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
While you gave some examples of kind of how it
worked out bad, I think we've seen opposite examples where
guys were sick, guys were hurt and they showed up
and they played great. You know, my first one I'm
gonna go to because it's one of the favorite and
the greatest ever still the most points in a quarter.
Twenty five point from Isaiah Thomas in eighty eight in
the finals, Game six, on that bad ankle that ended
(04:56):
up keeping him out of Game seven. It was so
swollen it was a size of a great food after
the game. But magic, I mean, Isaiah went crazy against
the Lakers there. Twenty five in a quarter on a
limping around the whole court. One of the most spectacular
things athletically I've ever seen. You seen Michael Jordan with
the flu game, right, we know what he did there.
We've seen Luca last year play through those finals and
(05:17):
give him to team a shot last year. And I
just think Tyre's Halliburton, you're going to have to drag
him off the court because one thing you always say,
you always say this is there's no guarantee you can
get back. So I think if it's Tyree's Haliburton is saying,
if I can play, I'm going out here. I'm gonna
be give the best I can. To their credit, they
have TJ McConnell, who's played very well the last couple
(05:39):
of games. And you have that if you're Rick Kyler
in your back pocket to say, all right, I'm gonna
say to Gauge, let me get.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
A flow, because here, real quick, TJ.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
McConnell can't play all of those minutes because it's he
plays in spurts where he can go, you know what,
to the wall all out, give you everything I got
for five minutes here, five minutes there, five minutes there.
He can't be a star because then it changes the game.
It changes who he has to guard. He's great going
up at your second team. He's not starter guy to
(06:07):
go up against your first team all forty eight minutes,
forty two minutes whatever, he would play because now he's
got a guard SGA, he's got a guard Jaylen Williams,
he's got a guard. Other guys he has to go
at them, they're gonna go at him, and it just
it changes the dynamic. He's great off the bench because
that's that spark plug, that energy. So I think Tyreese
Halerbert now absolutely is gonna play, and I think he
won't be one hundred percent, but he'll be over give
(06:29):
them enough. Here's the challenge, though, Rob. You know how
I've been saying, even well before the finals, this whole
playoff run, he has to continuously be aggressive. And I'll
hear some people say he's not a big score, he's
not a volume. That's what you're mixing up what I'm
saying when I say aggression. Aggression from him is looking
to score. At times. First aggression for him is go
(06:51):
ahead and take that shot? Is there, don't I'm swinging
around one more time. No, that's a shot we need
you to take, because Rob, do you know what they
are when he scores twenty or more, they're eight and oh.
When he scores twenty or more, I didn't say thirty.
I didn't say forty. I didn't say fifty. He can
get twenty points. When he scores twenty points in this postseason,
they're eight and oh. And I believe they're six and
(07:14):
seven when he scores less. So he has to be aggressive.
He's the only chance they win in that regard, because
OKC now is cooking.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
They got a couple wins in a row.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
They've smelled blood as in the Larry O'Brien Trophy, and
I think he has to play to give this team
that ignition that they need. Now, you might say I'm
gonnaive him twenty four minutes instead of thirty five forty
and be Rick carlill be smart managing it. But he
absolutely has to play if they any shot to win
and get make this a game sound I just.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
The examples you gave were two of the greatest players
who have ever played, and yeah they have.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
They were productive while they were playing. At some point.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I'm not against you going out and trying once it's
once it's obvious.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Remember he didn't make a field goal.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
You just gave up Michael jo on a flu game
who was knocking down baskets, Isaiah, they were okay, they're
out there. They were performing, so go ahead, keep going.
At some point the coach or the player has to say,
I'm over the game from the field. That's not going
to help the team win.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Mental rocket, I'm saying, you gotta produce it. What I'm saying,
I don't think he that's just not natural for him
to go. Like Isaiah said, I only have a little
bit on this ankle. I'm going crazy.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
You know it. You know you saw it.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, But I'm saying, like those guys performed to where
you wouldn't even question whether or not they should continue.
My question is, at some point, when you're three quarters
in and you don't have a field goal, do you
have to look at it and say, you know, he
got us to this point. Now we need to finish
the game. Let's put somebody in. Let's we need baskets,
(08:50):
we need do you That's what.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I'm absolutely get And that's why I said, Rick Carlos,
this is why we all agree he's a great coach
and he's gonna go in the Hall of Fame, and
this is where he's gonna have to really really earn
that title, if you will, by managing it. But what
I meant was, even in the first half, his mentality.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
In this week.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I know people say, oh, it's gonna be aggressive. It's
just not in his mentality at times. Sometimes he has
to try more. He has to say I'm gonna switch
the game up, I'm gonna go make it a little easy,
I'm gonna start at the elbow, I'm gonna start here.
And it's just not in his mental makeup. And I'm
saying the Pacers are going to need him to change
his mental makeup and try to be more aggressive.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Eight.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
No, with twenty more or more points, we gotta get
you there. But either way it's akon. He got locked up.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
You uh watching, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Obviously, Game five of the NBA Finals, Jaln Williams goes crazy.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
He has forty.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
This is coming off of twenty five I believe it
was in twenty seven and then forty. There's three straight
games of I think ninety one points total in the
last three games for him. He's been incredible. So Rob,
we've seen this happen before, where the kind of the
traditional guy you think is gonna get an MVP. You know,
if it's if it's Steph Curry doesn't happen, it goes here,
If it's Jason Tatum doesn't happen, and so on and
(10:10):
so forth down the line.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
We might be in a situation where.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
If this ends in game six, May it doesn't really
matter game seven as well, but specifically the game six
for this argument's sake, I think Jalen Williams may mess
around and steal this thing if he has another thirty
five point game and SGA just kind of does what
he does, say it's twenty six, twenty seven to twenty eight,
just a normal game for him. Jalen Williams might mess
around and steal this MVP, but it's gonna have to
(10:35):
be something spectacular. I think he's gonna have to absolutely dominate.
I think he's gonna have, you know, like I said,
thirty five to forty because traditionally, you're gonna give it
to the guy of a team if it comes down
to being close, right, you're gonna just say we're gonna
give it to the guy, and in this case, the
MVP of the league. So Jalen Williams's only chance to
steal it will be agetting another thirty five to forty
point performance where you can go.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Not always Steph Curry didn't win it? How did they
give it? And I know you don't like him, but
can you what what do you mean?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I don't like it, not anything personally talking about him,
don't like cool Lebron.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Why couldn't they give it to Lebron? You don't give it?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I mean, like really like you're actually let me ask
you this from a you know, voting stand you don't give.
I'm really asking from a vote you have. I know
his hall of fame is at name, you know, NBA
Finals vote. But I'm just saying, if the best player
in this thing by far, But mind you, I get
if it's close, right, then obviously gonna go to winning team.
But it's not even close by far. It was Lebron
like not even in the same strategy you gotta win.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Can there be the.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
One time you got Jerry West in another time fifty
years later? Meaning like if every forty.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Because they knew when they did it with Jerry West
it was ridiculous that the only way you could it
could be is if he totally played grade and somebody
made a miraculous shot at the end to win it.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
You know what I mean. And if it was around
the rim exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
And other than that, like in Game seven and the
guy has a lucky shot that drops him, but he
totally dominated. I could see in the situation where that,
but when you lose the series, it's got to go
to a player who helped the team win in the championship.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
I just I'm with that ninety nine point nine percent
of the time.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
But I think when you see something that was just
so drastic, like him taking Timothy mosk Off and Tristan
Thompson and Matthew dela Vedova to Game six against the Warriors,
I just think and avaging like thirty five, twelve and
twelve or whatever. Every nine again, Rob, I mean, even
if it was if it was a World series, if
some guy had seven.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Home runs, I would never I never believe in that
because when when the Angels beat the Giants and Barry
bound and had all these home runs and it was
a seven game series and they lost, he didn't.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
He didn't get I just feel like every nine again,
you name the sport, you see something that's so incredible,
you gotta go. Okay, I disagree with that, but yeah,
we'll see if Jaylen Williams again, I think he does
another light like last night. He has a chance to
steal this from SGA, but it's gonna be hard because
he is the reigning MVP.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Be sure to catch live editions of the Couple with
Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington weekdays at seven pm Eastern
four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
By this time next week, we will have a new champion.
We will have a new member of the rings club
in basketball history. Rings culture, of course, has been pervasive
throughout sports media for about a decade at least, maybe
even longer than that. And Lebron James, in the latest
episode of the Mind the Game podcast with Steve Nash,
(13:30):
was taking some listener questions on the show. One of
them was, Hey, Lebron, you got four rings. Why don't
you tell us your thoughts on rings culture?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Take a listen.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
Funny, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why I
was discussed so much in our sport And why is
the all be all of everything. You sit here and
tell me. You know, Alan Iverson and Charles Barkley and
Steve Nash, you know, you know, wasn't unbelievable Like, oh,
(13:59):
they can't be talked about or discussed with these guys
is because this guy won one ring or won two
rings or one like it's just it's just weird to me.
It's like saying Peyton Manning can't be in the same
room with Brady or Mahomes because he only has one ring.
They don't never discuss that in the sport or telling
me that Damn Marino is not the greatest slinger of
all time, or he can't be in the room with
(14:21):
those guys because he didn't win a championship. They don't
discuss those things.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Once again, if he had enough rings to be considered
the greatest, it would be.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Okay, this is a typical Lebron.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
He doesn't feel like he's gonna get there and that's
gonna be held against him, So now he's gonna down
play the ring. If it wasn't about that, Lebron, and
if Steve Nash had any kind of book, expect to
hear this. Okay, No, if he had anything, then I
would have said, Lebron, why did you leave Cleveland and
go to Miami chasing rings?
Speaker 4 (14:55):
You're the one who did it. You're the one away
who ran away.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Want to put together a super team so that you
could win rings?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
You would have wanted to were afraid not to win.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
A championship as great as you were as a player.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
That's right now he's saying.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
He's talking about being a great winning rings because that's
what he wanted to win.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Such a phony.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I'm so tired of hearing this on one hand, he
talking about I don't know, talking about rings or whatever.
He's the one Calvin that wasn't somebody imitating him. He's
the one talking up about seven rings. He's the one
who left Cleveland's hometown and went to go chase rings
(15:42):
in Miami. He's the one who keeps leaving, who came
to LA to chase rings.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Because he looked at Michael Jordan.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
And if you look at Michael Jordan's career and you
think it's just about rings, you got your You're mistaken.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Michael Jordan was a great player, led the league ins.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Oran ten times. I could go over and over the
all time leading scorer in the postseason. It was more
than just the six rings. This whole notion. And if
Steve Nash had anything, oh, you could have said, you know, Lebron,
Peyton did win two championship, Well Peyton Hodi got one exactly.
But my point is this is total garbage on Lebron's point,
(16:24):
on part the only reason if Lebron had eight or
ten rings, you think he would be talking about the
number of rings people counting.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Of course he would not such a phony.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I'm so tired of hearing guys make an excuse when
it doesn't fit their narrative. He has to be able
to talk about longevity and all this other stuff to
be able to begin sit the great. It's not that
you have to win a ring to be great. Okay,
you can be a great player. I'll sit here and
tell you Charles Barkley was a great player. Steve Nash
(16:58):
won two MVPs. No one's gonna say he won't a
great player in the NBA. But when you talk about
the greatest of all time, I don't know if anybody
who's the greatest of anything who didn't win at some
point in their life. Dann Marino was a hell of
a quarterback. I'm gonna sit here and tell you he's
the best quarterback ever and he never won. Come on, man, nobody,
(17:20):
how many times you have to bring up Marv Levy.
He went the four straight Super Bowls as the coach
four Not one time I've ever heard anybody say Marv
Levy's the greatest coach in NFL history.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
You know why, because he didn't win.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
That's why we keep score, That's why we hand out trophies.
It does matter. Stop trying to say that winning doesn't matter.
It does matter when you're talking about putting somebody ahead
of everybody in saying they're the greatest that ever did something.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
That's all I'm saying. I actually, I actually agree with
that last statement. I think when you're talking about the pantheons, right,
I gotta start to nitpick Lebron, I gotta start bringing
those things up.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
But I want to I'm gonna reverse it here.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So then let me let me reverse and start from
the beginning here from where you just ended it. I
do believe there was a genesis. I do believe there
was a point when something kind of changed. And I
think when you just mentioned Lebron leaving, I think a
large part of why he was leaving was this. I
think Lebron, we knew the talent was there. He's MVPs,
(18:23):
he's going. He went to the finals in seven, but
he loses, and I think all he starts to hear
because this, remember, this modern era is an advent of
debait shows daily every single day, the advent of social media.
This is a hearing of things, these conversations daily, daily, daily, daily, daily,
and we all know Lebron gets in the league, he
becomes the hot topic. Lebron the Cowboys and the Lakers
or Yankees. You know, make sure you watch Rins repeat
(18:45):
say that every week, every day, the greatest hits. And
so I think when he starts to hear, oh, he's
not a Kobe, Well he he scores more than Kobe,
he's a better passing code.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Well he's not a Kobe because Kobe won.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Well, he can't be Jordan because Jordan one, and I
think what starts to happen with him was was shoot.
I can be MVPs. I can be in the finals
and lose. I can be an All Star. My team
can win fifty five sixty games. But if I don't win,
people are gonna never put me on this place. So
I have to go to find a win. Because Cleveland
obviously didn't put anything around him at that time. So
I think he jumped ship and I think that same
(19:19):
thing happened to Kevin Durant. Well, dang, I'm starting balling out.
I'm an All Star, second best player in the league.
For all these years, I've been to the finals, you know,
with the back in what was it twenty eleven, but
twenty twelve. But no one's gonna say anything about this
unless I win I think we started to have with
these guys were so worried about if I don't win,
and I started to freak out because I do believe
(19:41):
the ring culture started to be a conversation when we
were back in back in the day. There's somebody who
said Will Chamberlain was the best player in the league ever.
Best you know what, the best player ever was Will Chamberlain.
He had a ring. Bill Russell had eleven, but they
felt Will Chamberlain was more dominiqu's best player in the league.
Somebody said, no, hold on loud, that should talk for
quite a bit. Larry Bird was the best player in
(20:02):
the ever to them. A lot of people, well he
had one, then he had two, then he had three,
and for them, that was what they saw. I remember
Larry Reggie Miller being that guy. He could have been
your favorite player and people would have been like, oh,
that's your favorite player, okay, cool. I know, may Michael
Jordan be given to him. But the end conversation was
never always rings. I do think we've gotten obsessed with
rings over the last feteen years. We've gotten lazy with
(20:24):
our contextualizing things. We've gotten lazy with our analysis. Where
you go Shack can't even get something for chuckle. But
let me tell you, I got four rings. You don't
have any, And it becomes lazy everything. Well he's got
five rings. Who he's got six rings. Well he's got
three rings. He hadn't won a ring. That's the laziest thing.
So I do believe, I agree that is a massive
part of the equation. And if he's starting it picking
(20:45):
if I'm talking about Steph, I'm talking about Karee, I'm
talking about King, you gotta start having those conversations right
the little bit.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Okay, he's better here, he has more rings. That's a
part of the equation.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
But I do believe there are some people that close
their eyes blindly and go who he's got more rings?
Who he's got more because that's all they've heard from
debate shows, that's all they've heard on social media for
last fifteen to twenty years. Yawn is so boring and
there's no ability to con sexualize or have a conversation
with nuanced conversation. I absolutely strongly believe that people have
(21:14):
done that. And my last point, and I think this
is a compliment to somebody in particular. I think this
is a compliment to Kobe Bryant. You say how, I'll
tell you how. Kobe Bryant was the first real person
that we saw that you could legitimately have a conversation,
Is he on par with Jordan? Harold Minor, Baby, get
out of here, Gret Hill, he's the next Jordan? Heck
of a player? Not that Alan Ivers said, no, he's
(21:36):
heck of a player. Not that Kobe Bryant was the
first person you started to go look like him, talk
like him, sound like him, chew gum like him, same size,
shoot like him, fade away like him. Oh shoot, he
just won three straight rings, just like him. And it
was the first time we started to have a conversation
of could he be the next door? Could he be
as good? Could he be better? He's even younger because
(21:58):
he came straight out of high school. Immediately we start saying, no,
I can't because Jordan has six, Okay, well, let Kobe
keep going. Then he gets four, then he gets five.
Well he's already lost a couple sides, so he can
never be sure. And it started that conversation. Then Lebron comes,
is he better than Kobe? No, because Kobe had five,
And that's when It started because Kobe was so good
to great that we started the question, dang, is he
(22:18):
better than mine?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
And we had hurry up and rationalized while he couldn't
be to me.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I agree that it's a part of the conversation for sure,
but people have gotten lazy rob and make it I disagree.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
I disagree. I think it fits people's narrative. If Lebron
was ten and zero in the finals, there's no way
hes sit here and tell you about rings.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
The reason that Will Chamberlain never really got the credit.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
That he deserves and broke all the records, and that
is because he didn't win enough. Not that he didn't win,
he didn't win enough to dominate as much as he did.
People thought he should have won more, and that's what
helped hurt him. When you're talking about the greatest, this
is not a conversation of whether someone he's good. Nobody's
gonna question whether Charles Barkley was a great player or
(23:04):
Steve Nash's two m vps.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
It's about the greatest of all that is the conversation.
I agree what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
That's the only time that you take everything into consideration
and you nitpick when you want to crown some But
I think it was not about but.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
No, it's not just but but.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
See that's the only thing that matters, because that's not true.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
No, I'm actually with you on that last part. When
I am talking about the greatest of the great, I
have to do that.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
I win to somebody the greatest of all time.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But but I don't think that's the overall context of
what was being said here. I think what we're doing
is immediately dismissing Chris Paul as one of the best.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Points.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
He didn't win a ring. He didn't and that so
not the greatest. I agree with you in the greatest
con because now I have to nitpick, Okay, well how
many of this or how many that, because it's we're
talking to.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
The greatest players. It's not that Chris Paul isn't a
great player. But I'm gonna look at I'm serious, I'm
going to discount Isaiah Thomas for Chris Paul. When Isaiah
Thomas one Championships didn't have another top fifty player. I mean, like, like,
there's more to it. It ain't just that Isaiah one two. Okay,
(24:14):
It's a lot more than that. And that's what's lazy
is when people talk about play.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
It ain't just that.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
But that's what I'm saying about a lot of people
do that now, rob And that's the culture.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Now for twenty years and they started, that's when it started.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Was no, and that is not all it was.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
We never sat there and just because what conversation would
there really be if it's just about if it's just.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
About wing, what conversation would what we have?
Speaker 1 (24:45):
You've done these and that's what they do that because
it goes out. Will he get more rings? Will he
get more ring? Who does he need to win another ring?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Ring?
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Ring? Ring?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Let me ask you this, and this is a genuine
like a genuine question in that Bay questions. I'm not
trying to set you. I'm really asking your opinion. Who's
who's better? Who would you rather have? Kevin Garnett or
Charles Barkley. There's no wrong. I'm literally just asking you.
So this ain't a setup or nothing. Charles Barkley who
didn't win a ring. Do you know how many people
would never say that? I don't, but you know what
(25:18):
I'm saying, Rogerie, you feel me. They would say never
say that because their media default, because they've been traineding wired.
They've been trained and wired the last fifteen years ago.
You don't have any rings, Kevin Garnett. Why because he
got a ring, Dirk or Charles Barkley? Dirk why he
wanted did you see a run at ring?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
No?
Speaker 4 (25:33):
And like, man, you.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Must have never saw Charles Barkley's.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
And that's where we've gotten. I know that's the kind
of say.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
What you're doing is you're letting Lebron off the hook,
which is if this ring thing was in his favor,
I swear to you he would not be on it
on that talking about the ring that rings don't matter.
This is because he's lost so many and in a
lot of people's mind.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
He lost too many.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
He's lost more than these on and if that wasn't
the case, and if Lebron was also six and zero
and the all time leading scorer and whatnot, he would
not be trying to discount the rings. He only discounts
it because it doesn't work for his narrative. Why would
you want that to count when you've lost six times?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I think that's where we'll disagree. I think he's saying
it's going to that becoming the end all be all
not that it doesn't matter. He's been trying to win
him to the tune of what ten to eleven?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
That's that's why he's got a suitcase next to his basketball.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I think it has been that it's the we have
become blinded and can't contextualize and have a good conversation
Hosts And Creators
kelvin washington
Rob Parker
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