July 16, 2019 • 40 mins
It's the Best of the Odd Couple with Chris Broussard and Rob Parker! Aaron Torres is in for Rob, and he and Chris explain why Anthony Davis is crazy for calling himself the best player in the NBA, why the Houston Rockets are destined to fail this season unless they dramatically change their style of play, and why the anonymous NBA general manager who said Kawhi Leonard wasn't a 'max' player should be fired immediately.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcast.
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(00:21):
s R. You're listening to the Best of the Odd
Couple with Chris Brush and Rod Harker. I was reading
in Sports Illustrated about Anthony Davis and he had a
quote that blew me away. He was asked, where do
(00:43):
you think you rank among players in today's NBA and why.
Here's what he said, Aaron, I'm the best in the world.
I think I do a lot of things that a
lot of players can't do, as far as playing a
complete game. I can play on the block, play on
the perimeter, play defense on both ends, switch one to
(01:07):
five guard, score the basketball. I want to be the
most dominant player in the game, and I'm going to
continue to do that, he mentioned. He went on to
mention guys like Kauai kd Lebron Steph All that that
they're the same. They're great players, they're talented, they're Hall
of famers. But he said he is the best in
(01:27):
the world, and he didn't he didn't couch it with
you know, everybody thinks they're the best. You know, of
course I gotta have that mentality if I'm gonna compete
with these guys. No, he just came out and said it.
I am the best player in the world. And Aaron
Torres I like Anthony Davis. I can't wait to see
him and Lebron James together. I think they have a
(01:49):
good chance, even though I think the Clippers are a
little better right now. I think the Lakers have an
excellent chance to win a championship next year, certainly within
the next two years. But I'm here to tell you
today there is no way that Anthony Davis at this
point is the best player in the world. And he's right,
(02:12):
He's got all those skills that he mentioned, but the
best player in the world. How you compare players is
not a checklist of skills. If we did a checklist
of skills between David Robinson and Shaquille O'Neill, you might
say David Robinson checked more boxes, But who is better?
(02:34):
Shack period impact? What kind of impact do you have?
On the game. And as much as I like Anthony Davis,
as much as he is a two way terror, he
has yet to impact games the way that these six players,
who I have all of them ahead to him. So
I got him seventh, Lebron James Kawhi, Leonard, Kevin Durant,
(03:00):
James Harden. It's not in an order necessarily, James Harden,
Steph Curry, and Jannis Onto Takompo. Anthony Davis has won
one playoff series in his life. He's been to the
playoffs twice in seven years. And I know he wanted
out of New Orleans. But guess what, you have to
(03:21):
take some of the blame for why New Orleans wasn't better.
You had some talent around you. Drew Holliday can play,
Julius Ramdall showed he's not bad at one point. You
had Nicola Merriton, you can shoot one point. You had
DeMarcus Cousins, Rajon Rondo. He had some talent around him.
(03:45):
Why wasn't he able to galvanize guys and lead them?
And I'll tell you one thing. In today's NBA, Aaron,
you if you have to be able to handle the ball,
and that's the one thing everybody I met mentioned can
do that Ad can't. When push comes to shove, they
can bring the ball up the court and create their
(04:08):
own stuff. Now Ad can create his own stuff. I
know he was a guard in high school before he
had his grossburt, but I don't see him, when necessary
bringing it up court and just spreading it out and
running everything through himself. And so that's why he's not
the best in the world. Well, I wanted to give
(04:29):
a quick shout out to Anthony Davis. He made twenty
seven million dollars last year, but apparently he couldn't afford
cable because he wasn't watching the playoffs. If he thinks
that he's the best player because Kawhi Leonard all listen
all the guys you mentioned, but I think so much
of this argument is exactly what you said. You can't
come to me with I'm the best player in the
(04:50):
world when you've won one playoff series your entire career.
Thank you. In the same year that Kawhi Leonard basically
took an organization a country on his back to a championship,
Yannis took and I know Chris Middleton was an All Star,
but Yannie was the guy took that organization the Eastern
Conference files. I'll take it a step further, which is
something you already addressed. He's not even the best player
(05:12):
in his locker room, right. I know Lebron took last
season off. I know he was drinking wine on the bench,
but he averaged. I looked it up today to make
sure those numbers were Craig thirty eight and ten in
the finals a year ago, thirteen months ago. So I
get it. He's a competitors. He's an elite athlete, for sure.
(05:35):
But you can't tell me you're the best player on
the planet when one, you've won one playoff series. Two
you've only played seventy games more than more than seventy
games twice out of nine or eight years in your career.
I just don't see it. I know he's a competitor,
I know he wants to say he's the best, but
I just don't buy it. No, I'm with you, and
I like that attitude of hey, I'm a dog like
(05:56):
I want the Lakers to have that attitude when they
come out of the training camp this year. I don't
want to see any Oh we need this, we need that.
We don't have this, we don't have. The coaching is terrible.
No beat dogs and go out there and say we're
the best and we're going to win the championship this year.
So I like that mentality, but in this case, it's
(06:17):
just there's no evidence to back it up, and Anthony
Davis has got He would have been better served saying, hey,
I think, look, I think I'm the best player in
the world, but this is all about winning and until
I win big then I can't you know, I can't
be put on that pedestal. That's my goal. That's where
(06:40):
I want to get to. But while I may think it,
I've got to prove it to everybody else. That would
have been something better to say, and he just can't
claim it right now. Like you said this, Look, this
is how I think you can measure who's better when
you're talking about individual playoffs players, because it's very difficult
(07:01):
aaron to measure perimeter players versus big men. It's getting
a little easier nowadays because you know, and Davis alluded
to this in his press conference with the Lakers, is
kind of positionless basketball to some degree, but there's still
our differences, big differences between bigs and smalls for the
most part, and so you can't. It's how do you
(07:24):
how do you compare a Michael Jordan to a Shaquille O'Neill,
you know, a Kobe Bryant to a Hakim Eli Juan.
I think the only way you can do it is
impact age. And I don't say that's just number of championships,
but impact on the game. That's why I think Steph
Curry can rank high because you can say what you want.
(07:46):
He doesn't d up, he's small, he's not physical, this
and that. How has he impacted the game? You know what?
I think this might be a biproduct of I think
it's a biproduct of playing in New Orleans where for
seven eight years everything he has said has just been
gone into the win, none of it matters. Well, now
(08:07):
you're on the big stage with the lake, you can't
just say whatever you want to say and not have
it picked apart by guys like us, by people, you know,
whether it's you on television, others on television, whatever. I
just wonder, I think he just kind of said it
without thinking. I can't imagine that he actually believes that.
And it's not to say that he's not an incredible player.
We all know that he is. As you said, there's
(08:28):
probably only a handful of guys six to seven, how
whatever the number is, that are truly better than him.
But when you factor in the fact that he does play,
he's more of a low post player. And I know
he said he's more versatile and all that stuff, but
you know, he doesn't handle the ball, he doesn't set
up teammates, he doesn't shoot the three particularly well. He's
really good at what he does, but to say that
(08:49):
he is the best player in this league is preposterous, right,
because here's the thing. Anthony Davis as good as he is,
and again, he handles the ball well for you know,
a guy his size, and again he played guard in
high school. We get that. But he needs somebody to
get him the rock, right Lebron James doesn't, Kawhi Leonard doesn't,
(09:11):
Kevin Durant doesn't, James Harden, Steph Curry, Yannis, they don't.
So if I Kareem abdul Jabbar, and obviously was a
different era, but Kareem abdul Jabbar actually won the MVP
Award in a year where they didn't make the playoffs,
and then he had two back to back years where
he didn't make the playoffs with Milwaukee and the Lakers.
(09:35):
And the reason as great as he was and I
have him third greatest player of all time, the reason
that could happen to Kareem was because he needed a
guard to get him the ball. He was a low
post player, obviously with the sky hook and a d
while certainly more versatile in this day and age than
Kareem needs a guy to get him the ball, and
(09:59):
I I think you hit it on the head. That's
a great point. We have seen more Anthony Davis interviews.
Rachel Nichols on ESPN Sports illustrated the press conference, which
obviously that would take place with any team, but he's
getting out there more. Yep, we're going to see more
of Anthony Davis than we ever had. And like you,
you have, and like you said, he's going to have
(10:22):
everything he says is going to be picked apart, especially
since he's playing with Lebron James. By the way, I
think part of that is why, amongst the many reasons
why Kawhi Leonard didn't want to play with the Lakers,
didn't want to play with Lebron James. It's for reasons
like this, But I don't disagree with anything you've said. Chris.
I get it. You're a competitor. You want to you know.
(10:43):
And it is kind of his time to kind of
plant his flag as being one of those guys, because
he really was under the radar in New Orleans. Some
of it was his own I don't want to say fault,
but responsibility not getting his team far into the playoffs.
But I understand the concept. He thinks he's great. He
wants to be in that conversation. You're just not there yet, though.
So I've got him seven. Do you have him in
(11:04):
your top five? I can't put him in my top
five because I mean, you just think about all the
guys that you listed off the top. You know, Lebron.
I still think Lebron's a lead. I think he's gonna
have an incredible bounce back year next season where he
shows everybody just how good he is and that we
all forgot about him. Jannis obviously the reigning MVP. Kawhi,
what he did in these in this postseason speaks for itself.
(11:27):
Kevin Durant went healthy speaks for himself, and I'm with you,
on Steph Curry. I truly am in the sense that
I've been critical of him at times. I think he,
you know, gets a little too much love at times.
But what he's done, even this year, even though they
didn't win the NBA Finals, what he did and I
think it was what Game four where he put up
like forty nine points or whatever it was helping the
(11:50):
Warriors sweep the Golden State Wars. I think those are
my clear cut top five if you want to argue
a D versus Hard And even though Harden has an MVP,
I get it, but I'm with he's not in the
top five. Yeah, I think you can make certainly make
an argument a D is better than Harden. But again
impact Harden has carried teams to great records. You know,
(12:10):
they win fifty some games. When Dwight Howard was hurt,
they still won. You know, without Dwight Howard, they won
Chris Paul before after they win. Not they haven't won
a title, but they win. And that you know, he's
having more of an impact. Say what you want to buy,
Anthony Davis, Say what you want to buy Westbrook. I mean,
I know they haven't gotten on the first round, but
he's gotten his team to the playoffs. He obviously won
an MVP averaging triple dolls. Yeah, I wouldn't put him
(12:32):
ahead a d but you're right he's I mean, he
gets his team to the playoffs year and year out,
which Ad has not done. Be sure to catch live
editions of The Odd Couple with Chris Brussard and Rob
Parker weekdays at seven pm Eastern four pm Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeart Radio app. Mike D'Antoni
made some interesting comments recently about his offense. He said,
(12:58):
we aren't tweaked much. We'll tweak it, but to say
you can't win that way is bs for those who've
been under a rock. Russell Westbrook was just traded to
Houston for Chris Paul. So now you've got the two
most ball dominant players in the league, two of the
most ball dominant players in history, and in fact, they
(13:23):
do each have the highest usage rates for a season,
the one and two in NBA history. They're going to
play together, and Mike D'Antoni says, uh, we're gonna pretty
much play the same way we did last year. Aaron,
your thoughts, well, I mean, I think the concept of
playing the way that they play. I do think it
(13:44):
can work. I'm just not sure it could work with
Russell Westbrook because it's exactly yeah, like you know, and
this is We'll get into Darryl Moore at some point.
But like, I think he's a and I hate to
say it, I think he's a math nerd. I don't
think he understands the concept. Well, he is definitely a
math nerd. That's not even an insult. He would probably
tell you that. Well. I don't think he's a math nerd.
(14:06):
And that's that's in vogue in the NBA today. Math nerds,
I guess, yeah, I mean it is, but it is.
Whether it should be is another question, But it is
in vogue. And who just who just orchestrated the whole
Kawhi Leonard thing. Jerry west a basketball guy through and through,
but the logo Ryan No, I mean, I just the
thing with Morey that I was gonna get to is
(14:27):
I get it. I get what his background is. I
don't think he has a concept of how puzzle pieces
actually fit together on a basketball court. And with the
Clippers as an example, Kawhi Paul George, they play off
of each other, Patrick Beverlely Montrese Harold. The pieces all
fit together, and you look at the Rockets like, yeah,
of course, D'Antonio isn't going to change anything because he's
(14:49):
basically done the same thing since the Phoenix Suns days
a decade ago with Steve Nash. But will it Will
it work? I don't think so. But I don't necessarily
blame him because he is is who he is, and
he can only go with the players that management gets him.
I just don't think the puzzle pieces fit to keep
doing it. Well. I quickly address what you said about
Darryl Morey, and he is the poster child for analytics. Okay,
(15:14):
the gym of the Houston Rockets and the problem with
analytics whether it's baseball or basketball. And I think, look,
analytics are a part of your basketball equation. Every NBA
front office does, obviously, but should have a strong analytics department. Okay,
(15:34):
they just shouldn't be running things you should. Your analytics
should not determine every move, Okay, because what analytics don't
do is taking the consideration the human elements chemistry. Is
a player cold blooded under pressure? Or will he choke
under pressure? Heart fortitude, character, and Daryl Morey. Look, he's
(15:59):
a he's a good gem. He's overrated because some people
think he's tremendous. And the thing about Darryl Moorey is
that even though he is the analytics guy, he consistently
makes moves that not only disregard analytics, but often go
the exact opposite of analytics. Okay, now I'm with it.
(16:22):
If Colin Cowhurt calls it analytics, I'm taking the analytics
into consideration, but making moves based on other factors. But
his moves are beyond that. Russell Westbrook doesn't fit analytically
at all with the Rockets. Chris Paul didn't, Jamie Butler,
who they wanted, didn't, Carmelo Anthony didn't, Dwight Howard didn't.
(16:46):
And so that is the situation with Daryl Morey. He
I heard Colin Cowhurt say it. It It was a great example.
It's like if if you're a fashion expert and you
dress horrible, you know, it doesn't make sense. But I
want to get to Mike D'Antoni and what he said.
I will say this and then let you go in
(17:07):
and you know, go comment on it, and then we'll
go address the rest of it what he said his comments.
Second half of his comment to say you can't win
that way or essentially the way he coaches and his
team's play is bs. I agree with him there now, Aaron,
I'm in the minority. It may even be a minority
of one. I think Mike d'antoni's a Hall of fame coach.
(17:29):
He hadn't won a title. But Don Nelson is a
Hall of fame coach. He never won a title. And
Mike D'Antoni has helped change basketball. Okay, was what he
did in Phoenix seven seconds or less. Obviously, he's had
great success in Houston, even though they haven't won the ring.
Now he's got his warts. Don't get me wrong, but
I just think he's been a Hall of fame coach,
(17:51):
and I do agree with him that the way his
teams play can win championships. Let's not forget two years
ago they were right there. If Chris Paul doesn't get
hurt and they're up three two on Golden State, maybe
they win that series, and maybe they win the championship.
When he was in Phoenix the year that his players
(18:15):
a Mari stydomar boors Dial got suspended against San Antonio.
I believe they were up to one, but even if
they weren't, that was a team they could have won
that series without the suspensions. And the Western Playoffs were
the championship that year and really those years, a lot
of those years in that era, and so Phoenix would
(18:36):
have won that championship, I believe. I think they would
have faced maybe New Jersey the nets, but they would
have won, I believe a title. So Barr except for
that fight, that brawl, and he didn't keep his players
on the bench. So I do agree with him that
his style can win titles. I'm glad you said that
(18:57):
Hall of Fame and not whole of fame. I don't know,
but I do agree. I think because he hasn't won
a championship like that's what you use against him to
kind of tear down what he's done as a coach.
And I listen, one of his teams are always entertaining. Two.
I agree that I think he's ushered in this era
where I've even heard him say that in the Phoenix days,
(19:20):
they wanted to shoot more threes, but it was so
revolutionary at the time that they thought they were crazy
for taking thirty or thirty five threes and so now
they're at fifty fifty five whatever with the rockets. But
I'm with you in that I do think the style
can win. And it was really interesting when you open
the segment. I thought you were gonna say I think
he's crazy for saying the style can win, which obviously
(19:43):
you weren't. You were saying that the combination of Westbrook
and Harden. I agree with you. That's also why I
was so disappointed in this trade from Houston's perspective, because
it seems like and I hate to keep bringing it
back to Darryl Morey. I know we're focused on Dantoni here,
but it seems like every time they're right on the edge,
Darryl Moorey feels like he has to tinker for the
sake of tinkering. And I know that Chris Paul struggled.
(20:06):
I know the problems that they had internally in the
locker room, but I don't think that they're closer to
a championship with Russell Westbrook in place of Chris Paul.
I don't think they would have been if they had
gotten Jimmy Butler this offseason. And that's what's disappointing to
me is because I do think this style can work.
I do think Dan Tony has somehow become an underrated
(20:26):
coach because he hasn't won a championship, hasn't made of finals.
But I agree that this style can work. I just
don't think it's with this particular group of players headlined
by Hart In Westbrook. Yeah, I'm with you, and that's why,
like you said, I agree with the second half of
his statement, this type you can win this way. But
for him to say he's not tweaking anything, They're done.
(20:48):
They're done. Houston Rockets fans, you are done. I didn't
think you were winning a championship anyway. I think you'll
make the playoffs. I think you'll be X. I think
you'll be must sy TV. I think at times it'll
be you know, people like people stopping to watch a
car accident. You know, you got more talented. Westbrook is
(21:12):
better than Chris Paul at this point, but this will
not work. The only chance these two players have of
playing together and it working, in my view, is if
they had something akin to a Golden State type offense
where there was a lot of ball movement, player movement,
where Westbrook was moving and cutting and flashing and running
(21:35):
along the baseline and Harden was moving at times where
the ball wasn't sticking. That's where I think it could
It will have the best chance of working. But to
not tweak much, not tweak what not tweak James Harden
having the ball in his hands forty something percent of
the time, dribbling out the clock and either taking the
(21:58):
shot or pass into somebody with the shot clock going down,
and then they've got to shoot. It is Russell Westbrook
is the is about the furthest thing you can get
from a spot up three point shooter, And if you're
not gonna tweak much, then that's what you're gonna make him.
And that's not gonna work. Yeah, And that's why this
(22:21):
move was so disappointing to me. And I think I
actually texted you and Rob when it went down because
you guys were on air and you know, and I think,
and this is what's the sad part to me, And
it goes back to Dantoni is I think this is
his last run, right because they fired his whole coaching staff.
They're not gonna win this year. To your point, they're
gonna be fun to watch. They're not gonna win, and
(22:43):
this guy's sixty eight years old, and I do think
he's gonna go down as one of those coaches, maybe
like Don Nelson, as you just referenced, Chris that doesn't
get the credit that he deserves because he was already
on thin ice fair or not going into the offseason.
As I just mentioned, they they got rid of the
entire coaching staff and it's not gonna work. And I
actually feel bad for him because again, as a head coach,
(23:04):
you can only use the puzzle pieces that are given
to you by management. But I just I don't see
any way that this works unless, as you just said,
Chris Russell Westbrook completely changes the way that he plays basketball,
because you just kind of we kind of just saw
it with Chris Paul, right, Chris Paul too many dribbles,
wasn't going It's like, I just don't think it's gonna work.
(23:24):
And I actually feel bad for Dantoni because I think
come next April, May June, he's gonna be the fall
guy rather than Darryl Moorey, rather than James Harden, rather
than Russell Westbrook, no question, and look, James hardened by
himself in the Dan Tony offense we see is incredibly effective. Yes,
and he didn't alter his game one iota for Chris Paul,
(23:48):
not one iota. In fact, he became more ball. I
haven't checked the usage rates. Rob Ge checked those. I
think he became more ball dominant just from the eye test.
And Russell Westbrook by himself would be a terror in
Mike dan Tony's offense. A downhill point guard coming off
(24:09):
a high picking roll with shooters around him at the
three point line. Rustbrook would beat doing damage. But with
James Harden there, that's the problem. Harden's not gonna be
a spot up shooter. And it gets to Dan Tony
when he says, I'm not gonna tweak it. As much
as I like him, and obviously I like him, I
say he's a Hall of famer. He's a one trick pony.
(24:32):
Aaron sure, that's his problem. When he went to New
York and didn't have the pieces to play the way
he wants to play, they were horrible. When he went
to the Lakers and didn't have the pieces. He had
good pieces, Kobe Dwight Howard, but he didn't have the
guys that fit his system. They weren't good and it's
(24:52):
the same like now he's got guys, he needs to
make some changes. And so that's why I hesitate, and
I hesitate. Don't call him an offensive genius. Great offensive coach,
but not a genius because he doesn't adapt to his personnel.
And I think there is a way to adapt. That's
what made Steve Kerr such a great coach. Mark Jackson
(25:14):
was a good coach. That team was a good fifty
something win team, second round playoff team. But Steve Kerr
went in there, put in the perfect system for that
group of guys, and they went to heights. Nobody, maybe
even themselves, didn't think they could. And you know what,
Chris quick aside here, I want to let you know
you asked me a question. By James Harden's usage rate,
(25:35):
it has gone up each of the last three years.
Think of that. You got another ball dominant, All star,
future Hall of Famer at your side, and you your
usage rate went up. Sure, No, I mean here and
Westbrooker buddies, but I hope there are buddies two years
from now. I mean right, yeah, no, I mean listen,
(25:56):
we all heard Kadie and Steph Oh there s Yeah,
and we saw quickly that deteriorated. No, and I mean,
and that's what I will. I will push back, and
maybe it's a conversation we have after the break, But
I do think he's a little more adaptable, or he's
at least good with getting more out of pieces than
maybe he gets credit for. I mean, who was Steve
(26:16):
Nash before he played for Mike D'Antoni. The Rockets won
forty one games the year before he got there. They
win fifty six his first year. Second year, they're a
game away from going to the NBA. Well, both of
those cases, though he had players that fit his style.
I get it, But Nash was a two time All Star. Now,
you're right, he took him to levels. I mean, he
never would have been an MVP. I don't even think
he'd be a Hall of Famer without D'Antoni. So I
(26:37):
agree with you there. No, Yeah, I just that's my
only pushback. I don't think they're gonna win next year.
I don't think I think he is gonna end up
being the fall guy. I don't think he gets credit for. Listen,
if he doesn't have the pieces, you're right, But I
do think he gets more out of certain guys than
they would get out of themselves or other coaches would
get out of them. Yeah, certain types. I'm with you
(26:59):
on Nash, but we will we will maybe have to
agree to disagree on that when that never happens on
this show. Really, you just disagree. He never agree to disagree.
We just disagree. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Odd Couple with Chris Broussard and Rob Parker weekdays
at seven pm Eastern four pm Pacific at the bottom
of the hour. Thirty minutes from now. Rick Buker will
(27:23):
join us. He just wrote in a very interesting, insightful
article on Bleacher Report about how several GMS we're saying
that none of the players, not one, not Clay, not
kay not KD, not Kyrie, although Kyrie didn't technically sign
(27:44):
a max because he gave a little money to DeAndre Jordans,
but none of the players are worth a max contract,
all right. So here's what they said. I'm gonna read
some of the quotes. It's really interesting. Here's a former
player who now works as an executive. He was asked
(28:04):
to define what a max player is to him. Here's
his quote. A leader in the locker room and on
the floor, someone I'm confident and comfortable giving the ball
to in late game situations. He's leading my organization on
and off the court where we need to go. Guys
that I played with, Guys that I continue to watch.
(28:27):
I want them to get as many dollars as possible.
But when we talk about the term max guy, how
many of those guys realistically are there? Now here's another
a general manager anonymous of course, on Kawhi Leonard. As
far as in regards to max player, Kawhi is great
at getting his but he doesn't elevate anyone. He doesn't
(28:50):
rally his team. He does have leadership qualities, but it
depends on how you define leader. He's obviously not vocal
and he's not a galvanizer. He does it with his work,
ethic and buy example, here's another gem from the Western Conference,
the other ones from the East or in Clay. He
(29:11):
says he's a good player, but he's not a leader.
He just shows up and hoops. Aaron, I got a
lot of stuff to say about these quotes, but first
I want to give you the floor. Yeah. First of all,
I want to shut out these two anonymous gems. Who
are about to soon be anonymous xgms. Because if you
don't think Kauhi and Clay are worthy of max dollars,
(29:34):
then I honestly, I don't know what league you're watching,
and you know, I listen, I get in this utopic,
perfect society. Your star player has all of these qualities.
But just because Kawhi isn't super vocal, or Katie can
be moody, or Lebron has off the court interests, it
doesn't mean that one when the light comes on, that
(29:55):
they're not ready to play, two that they can't be
the face of your organization, and three that they aren't
worthy of every single dollar that we're paying them. I
just think it's a preposterous concept. And if you want
to argue about certain other players, that's fine, But certainly
Kawhi and even Klay Thompson, I just don't even know
how you can make the argument that they're not whatever
(30:16):
the term is franchise players. There is no argument, and
it makes you wonder what in the world are some
of these guys thinking, and how are they running teams?
For a guy to say this about Kawhi Leonard, he
doesn't elevate anyone. He doesn't rally his team. He elevated
the whole country by thank you. He's not a galvinizer.
(30:36):
Hold on, He just went to a team that was
absolutely shook in the presence of Lebron James, a team
that couldn't get out of its own way whenever they
saw Lebron James, a team that froze in the presence
of Lebron James. And he led that team to a championship.
(31:00):
He had no second star in the Big Three era,
no second star. All these other teams gotta have three
superstars and is the Big Three and all that, and
he has doesn't even have a second star and he
wins the championship. How is that not lifting other guys,
making other guys better, elevating them. Look, Kawhi Leonard is
(31:24):
this Here's how Kawhi Leonard galvanized his team. He went
in there as a superstar, listen to the coach, gave
the coach respect, bought into the system, didn't complain about
what they don't have, didn't complain about being in Toronto,
(31:45):
didn't complain about I want to go to southern California.
He just showed up, kept his mouth shut, was friendly
with guys became friends with guys led by example and
fit into the system. That's it, and that's all I want.
I don't need you to entertain me with comedy or
(32:05):
to be the biggest talker. And you know, given you
know new Rockney speeches. That's all nice if you can
do it, but if not produced on the court, and
Kawhi Leonard has done just that. Let's not forget Aaron.
The last time we saw Kawhi Leonard in a Spurs
uniform during the postseason, what he do? He had the
(32:26):
under man Spurs up twenty two points on the Golden
State Warriors with Kevin Durant. Now, I don't think they
would have won that series even if Kawhid stayed healthy.
I actually don't even think they would have won that game.
But I don't know, that's just me. The facts say
they were up twenty two and Kawhi was leading them
(32:47):
over a much more talented team. This dude produces. I mean,
he's arguably the best player in the world. And who
if he doesn't get a MAX who in the world
does well? And that was my thought when I read this,
is if Kauai isn't a MAX player, who is and
it was funny because you mentioned off top that, you know,
I've covered a lot of college basketball my day, and
(33:08):
I remember talking to Chris Beard, who's the head coach
of Texas Tech. They made the Final Four this year,
and I remember asking him about kind of leadership and
all that kind of stuff, and he said, sometimes the
best thing you can do as a leader is to follow.
And what he meant by that is exactly what you said, Chris.
Not everybody is yea rah rah you know, let you know,
we're gonna run through a brick wall. And Kauai was
(33:30):
the ultimate leader in the fact that he led by example.
It's what you said, It's what I said. He put
an entire organization on his back. He put an entire
country on his back. And I just, you know, I
don't know if this GM is speaking from a place
of jealousy, stupidity. I don't know where it comes from.
But I just I don't get the idea that he
could be anything other like like like it makes no
(33:54):
sense to me. I'm trying to think off the top
of my head. If you're not. Is he saying that
he wouldn't pay Kauai max money or he because like
if that, there's no way he wouldn't pay Kawai exactly, Like,
I froze there because I'm sitting there thinking what could
he have possibly meant? Because if there were thirty teams
in the NBA this year, and all thirty of them
would have paid Kawai any dollar amount that they could
(34:15):
have to get him to the organization, So to me,
it just makes no sense at all, no question about it.
And look, Kawhi Leonard. Part of why I'm so confident
that the Clippers are gonna be great is because Kawhi
is just what this guy said. He's not vocal, just
does it with his work, ethic, does it by example.
He's just going to go fit in. He's gonna be great.
(34:38):
He's gonna be their best player, but he's going to
fit in. Think of so many of the other superstars
who bring, you know, more of a personality, They're more colorful.
Do you ask questions about them? Of course? Are they
gonna work with this guy? Are they gonna work with
this team? It's gonna take him a long time to adjust.
(34:58):
I think Kawhi fit in swimmingly, Yes, swimmingly in the
Clippers organization in locker room because of his personality and Clay. Look,
Clay is similar and he's not as good as Kauai,
but he's a great defender, two way player, just like Kawai.
I think Aaron one half of the greatest backcourt in
(35:21):
NBA history, And so to say he's not a max
player again kind of ridiculous. Well, and I think the
other thing too, The ultimate compliment to a player is
who else wants to play with him? And think about
what Paul George did this summer to make that happen, Like,
like he literally put his reputation on the line. He
put his I don't want to see, he put his
(35:43):
career on the line. But we'll never think of Paul
George the same way again because in a lot of ways,
he just bailed on Oklahoma City. And the point that
I've made on all the shows that I've been on,
including my own on Saturday nights, it's not as though
Oklahoma City did not live up to their end of
the bargain at all. Now, did they fall short, yes,
but they made the playoffs. They won forty nine games
(36:03):
in the regular season. It wasn't as though they won
twenty two games, and Paul George was just looking for
a life raft out of there, and so for Kawhi
to convince that guy, hey, give up everything you're building.
A year ago, you are smoking cigars with nast at
a party in Oklahoma City at midnight. Give all that
up to come with me. I also saw I don't
(36:24):
know if you saw this, Chris, but at Summer League.
I think it was Lou Williams and Patrick Beverley walking
through a casino at you know, one forty five in
the morning whenever they found out they're doing, you know,
jumping Jackson cartwheels in the casino at Summer League. And
I think that's part of leadership too. What do you
get out of your teammates? What do you bring to
the practice facility every day? But do guys want to
(36:45):
play with you? I know it's something you and Rob
talk about all the time. Lebron James, do guys want
to play with him at this point in his career?
I know you feel differently than Rob, But the point being,
there is no doubt that guys want to be around Kawhi.
I think that's the ultimate compliment to him. I agree,
and I think as we want to play with Clay
as well. Yeah, you know, this guy just shows up
and hoops. I mean, you need guys like that. I
(37:07):
don't need everybody to be in the team's business. I
don't need everybody to feel like they've got something to say.
I need Yeah, you need guys a few guys like that.
Some guys that are rye ry and talk all the
time and want to say this and that. Some guys
that might, you know, hold the coaching staff more accountable
than other players. But at the same time, I need
(37:30):
guys that are low maintenance, and that's what both of
these guys are. Kawhi Leonard and Clay Thompson are probably
the most low maintenance, off the top of my head
stars in the league. And Clay Thompson is what I
said with Chris Bierder minute go. Sometimes the best leaders
lead by following, and that's Clay. Clay just comes in,
(37:52):
does his job. Whatever. I want to ask you real quick,
because I was thinking about this when I was reading
this article. I do think it's interesting the concept of
a max play or the face of a franchise whatever.
I think we get so caught up with Oh, so
and so is a superstar, so and so is this
and the number of guys who really do kind of
check all the boxes I think is actually smaller than
(38:13):
what most people realize. All I heard all year Kyrie
Irving's a superstar. Well they lost in the second round
of the playoffs and his team went further without him
than with him. Ben Simmons, well he can't shoot at three.
How many guys do you think are actually true either superstar,
franchise players, difference makers. Because I do think that list,
I will give the GMS and all them credit for
this is I do think that list is probably smaller
(38:35):
than most fans want to give credit for. No, I
agree with that. Now. I look, you have a ton
of guys making max money that can't lead a team.
It can't be the best player on a really good team. Yep, Okay,
with all due respect, Tobias Harris, He's not gonna be
a best player on a championship team. Chris Chris Middleton,
you know, I mean Chandler Parsons. For goodness, say, got
(38:56):
two MAX contracts during his career. What a life that, right?
I mean, Charmed, he's the most blessed player in the league.
I mean, so you I get that now, I'm with
you on that. There are a lot of guys that
don't deserve the MAX. They get it because of timing, circumstances,
whatever it may be. DeAngelo Russell not a MAX player,
you know, but he got it. And so the problem
(39:18):
with the article was them picking on Kawhi and Clay. Sure,
that was where they went awry, But I get exactly
what you're saying. Look, if you want to say a
MAX player, the ultimate definition is a guy who can
be the best player on a championship team. How many
(39:40):
guys do we have in the league right now that
have proven that. You got Steph Curry, Lebron James, and
Kawhi Leonard. Now some people might say KAD because he
was obviously the best player in Golden State. My only
thing with that is I would say that team was
so st act sure that you know what I mean, Like,
(40:03):
you could have put a number of guys in that position,
not to take anything away from KD, and those teams
would have won those titles. When he was in Oklahoma City,
he didn't lead that team to a championship as close
as they got. Now we'll have his chance in Brooklyn.
We'll see if he can do it there, but really
you're really talking about three guys who have absolutely proven it,
(40:25):
So you know, I think these guys and remember this
about the Max Aaron. It's not what these guys are worth,
or what at least the top superstars are worth. There's
a cap on it. Lebron James should not be making
the same amount of money as Damian Lillard. Great point, YEP,
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
Couple at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us
live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching f
(00:21):
s R. You're listening to the Best of the Odd
Couple with Chris Brush and Rod Harker. I was reading
in Sports Illustrated about Anthony Davis and he had a
quote that blew me away. He was asked, where do
(00:43):
you think you rank among players in today's NBA and why.
Here's what he said, Aaron, I'm the best in the world.
I think I do a lot of things that a
lot of players can't do, as far as playing a
complete game. I can play on the block, play on
the perimeter, play defense on both ends, switch one to
(01:07):
five guard, score the basketball. I want to be the
most dominant player in the game, and I'm going to
continue to do that, he mentioned. He went on to
mention guys like Kauai kd Lebron Steph All that that
they're the same. They're great players, they're talented, they're Hall
of famers. But he said he is the best in
(01:27):
the world, and he didn't he didn't couch it with
you know, everybody thinks they're the best. You know, of
course I gotta have that mentality if I'm gonna compete
with these guys. No, he just came out and said it.
I am the best player in the world. And Aaron
Torres I like Anthony Davis. I can't wait to see
him and Lebron James together. I think they have a
(01:49):
good chance, even though I think the Clippers are a
little better right now. I think the Lakers have an
excellent chance to win a championship next year, certainly within
the next two years. But I'm here to tell you
today there is no way that Anthony Davis at this
point is the best player in the world. And he's right,
(02:12):
He's got all those skills that he mentioned, but the
best player in the world. How you compare players is
not a checklist of skills. If we did a checklist
of skills between David Robinson and Shaquille O'Neill, you might
say David Robinson checked more boxes, But who is better?
(02:34):
Shack period impact? What kind of impact do you have?
On the game. And as much as I like Anthony Davis,
as much as he is a two way terror, he
has yet to impact games the way that these six players,
who I have all of them ahead to him. So
I got him seventh, Lebron James Kawhi, Leonard, Kevin Durant,
(03:00):
James Harden. It's not in an order necessarily, James Harden,
Steph Curry, and Jannis Onto Takompo. Anthony Davis has won
one playoff series in his life. He's been to the
playoffs twice in seven years. And I know he wanted
out of New Orleans. But guess what, you have to
(03:21):
take some of the blame for why New Orleans wasn't better.
You had some talent around you. Drew Holliday can play,
Julius Ramdall showed he's not bad at one point. You
had Nicola Merriton, you can shoot one point. You had
DeMarcus Cousins, Rajon Rondo. He had some talent around him.
(03:45):
Why wasn't he able to galvanize guys and lead them?
And I'll tell you one thing. In today's NBA, Aaron,
you if you have to be able to handle the ball,
and that's the one thing everybody I met mentioned can
do that Ad can't. When push comes to shove, they
can bring the ball up the court and create their
(04:08):
own stuff. Now Ad can create his own stuff. I
know he was a guard in high school before he
had his grossburt, but I don't see him, when necessary
bringing it up court and just spreading it out and
running everything through himself. And so that's why he's not
the best in the world. Well, I wanted to give
(04:29):
a quick shout out to Anthony Davis. He made twenty
seven million dollars last year, but apparently he couldn't afford
cable because he wasn't watching the playoffs. If he thinks
that he's the best player because Kawhi Leonard all listen
all the guys you mentioned, but I think so much
of this argument is exactly what you said. You can't
come to me with I'm the best player in the
(04:50):
world when you've won one playoff series your entire career.
Thank you. In the same year that Kawhi Leonard basically
took an organization a country on his back to a championship,
Yannis took and I know Chris Middleton was an All Star,
but Yannie was the guy took that organization the Eastern
Conference files. I'll take it a step further, which is
something you already addressed. He's not even the best player
(05:12):
in his locker room, right. I know Lebron took last
season off. I know he was drinking wine on the bench,
but he averaged. I looked it up today to make
sure those numbers were Craig thirty eight and ten in
the finals a year ago, thirteen months ago. So I
get it. He's a competitors. He's an elite athlete, for sure.
(05:35):
But you can't tell me you're the best player on
the planet when one, you've won one playoff series. Two
you've only played seventy games more than more than seventy
games twice out of nine or eight years in your career.
I just don't see it. I know he's a competitor,
I know he wants to say he's the best, but
I just don't buy it. No, I'm with you, and
I like that attitude of hey, I'm a dog like
(05:56):
I want the Lakers to have that attitude when they
come out of the training camp this year. I don't
want to see any Oh we need this, we need that.
We don't have this, we don't have. The coaching is terrible.
No beat dogs and go out there and say we're
the best and we're going to win the championship this year.
So I like that mentality, but in this case, it's
(06:17):
just there's no evidence to back it up, and Anthony
Davis has got He would have been better served saying, hey,
I think, look, I think I'm the best player in
the world, but this is all about winning and until
I win big then I can't you know, I can't
be put on that pedestal. That's my goal. That's where
(06:40):
I want to get to. But while I may think it,
I've got to prove it to everybody else. That would
have been something better to say, and he just can't
claim it right now. Like you said this, Look, this
is how I think you can measure who's better when
you're talking about individual playoffs players, because it's very difficult
(07:01):
aaron to measure perimeter players versus big men. It's getting
a little easier nowadays because you know, and Davis alluded
to this in his press conference with the Lakers, is
kind of positionless basketball to some degree, but there's still
our differences, big differences between bigs and smalls for the
most part, and so you can't. It's how do you
(07:24):
how do you compare a Michael Jordan to a Shaquille O'Neill,
you know, a Kobe Bryant to a Hakim Eli Juan.
I think the only way you can do it is
impact age. And I don't say that's just number of championships,
but impact on the game. That's why I think Steph
Curry can rank high because you can say what you want.
(07:46):
He doesn't d up, he's small, he's not physical, this
and that. How has he impacted the game? You know what?
I think this might be a biproduct of I think
it's a biproduct of playing in New Orleans where for
seven eight years everything he has said has just been
gone into the win, none of it matters. Well, now
(08:07):
you're on the big stage with the lake, you can't
just say whatever you want to say and not have
it picked apart by guys like us, by people, you know,
whether it's you on television, others on television, whatever. I
just wonder, I think he just kind of said it
without thinking. I can't imagine that he actually believes that.
And it's not to say that he's not an incredible player.
We all know that he is. As you said, there's
(08:28):
probably only a handful of guys six to seven, how
whatever the number is, that are truly better than him.
But when you factor in the fact that he does play,
he's more of a low post player. And I know
he said he's more versatile and all that stuff, but
you know, he doesn't handle the ball, he doesn't set
up teammates, he doesn't shoot the three particularly well. He's
really good at what he does, but to say that
(08:49):
he is the best player in this league is preposterous, right,
because here's the thing. Anthony Davis as good as he is,
and again, he handles the ball well for you know,
a guy his size, and again he played guard in
high school. We get that. But he needs somebody to
get him the rock, right Lebron James doesn't, Kawhi Leonard doesn't,
(09:11):
Kevin Durant doesn't, James Harden, Steph Curry, Yannis, they don't.
So if I Kareem abdul Jabbar, and obviously was a
different era, but Kareem abdul Jabbar actually won the MVP
Award in a year where they didn't make the playoffs,
and then he had two back to back years where
he didn't make the playoffs with Milwaukee and the Lakers.
(09:35):
And the reason as great as he was and I
have him third greatest player of all time, the reason
that could happen to Kareem was because he needed a
guard to get him the ball. He was a low
post player, obviously with the sky hook and a d
while certainly more versatile in this day and age than
Kareem needs a guy to get him the ball, and
(09:59):
I I think you hit it on the head. That's
a great point. We have seen more Anthony Davis interviews.
Rachel Nichols on ESPN Sports illustrated the press conference, which
obviously that would take place with any team, but he's
getting out there more. Yep, we're going to see more
of Anthony Davis than we ever had. And like you,
you have, and like you said, he's going to have
(10:22):
everything he says is going to be picked apart, especially
since he's playing with Lebron James. By the way, I
think part of that is why, amongst the many reasons
why Kawhi Leonard didn't want to play with the Lakers,
didn't want to play with Lebron James. It's for reasons
like this, But I don't disagree with anything you've said. Chris.
I get it. You're a competitor. You want to you know.
(10:43):
And it is kind of his time to kind of
plant his flag as being one of those guys, because
he really was under the radar in New Orleans. Some
of it was his own I don't want to say fault,
but responsibility not getting his team far into the playoffs.
But I understand the concept. He thinks he's great. He
wants to be in that conversation. You're just not there yet, though.
So I've got him seven. Do you have him in
(11:04):
your top five? I can't put him in my top
five because I mean, you just think about all the
guys that you listed off the top. You know, Lebron.
I still think Lebron's a lead. I think he's gonna
have an incredible bounce back year next season where he
shows everybody just how good he is and that we
all forgot about him. Jannis obviously the reigning MVP. Kawhi,
what he did in these in this postseason speaks for itself.
(11:27):
Kevin Durant went healthy speaks for himself, and I'm with you,
on Steph Curry. I truly am in the sense that
I've been critical of him at times. I think he,
you know, gets a little too much love at times.
But what he's done, even this year, even though they
didn't win the NBA Finals, what he did and I
think it was what Game four where he put up
like forty nine points or whatever it was helping the
(11:50):
Warriors sweep the Golden State Wars. I think those are
my clear cut top five if you want to argue
a D versus Hard And even though Harden has an MVP,
I get it, but I'm with he's not in the
top five. Yeah, I think you can make certainly make
an argument a D is better than Harden. But again
impact Harden has carried teams to great records. You know,
(12:10):
they win fifty some games. When Dwight Howard was hurt,
they still won. You know, without Dwight Howard, they won
Chris Paul before after they win. Not they haven't won
a title, but they win. And that you know, he's
having more of an impact. Say what you want to buy,
Anthony Davis, Say what you want to buy Westbrook. I mean,
I know they haven't gotten on the first round, but
he's gotten his team to the playoffs. He obviously won
an MVP averaging triple dolls. Yeah, I wouldn't put him
(12:32):
ahead a d but you're right he's I mean, he
gets his team to the playoffs year and year out,
which Ad has not done. Be sure to catch live
editions of The Odd Couple with Chris Brussard and Rob
Parker weekdays at seven pm Eastern four pm Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeart Radio app. Mike D'Antoni
made some interesting comments recently about his offense. He said,
(12:58):
we aren't tweaked much. We'll tweak it, but to say
you can't win that way is bs for those who've
been under a rock. Russell Westbrook was just traded to
Houston for Chris Paul. So now you've got the two
most ball dominant players in the league, two of the
most ball dominant players in history, and in fact, they
(13:23):
do each have the highest usage rates for a season,
the one and two in NBA history. They're going to
play together, and Mike D'Antoni says, uh, we're gonna pretty
much play the same way we did last year. Aaron,
your thoughts, well, I mean, I think the concept of
playing the way that they play. I do think it
(13:44):
can work. I'm just not sure it could work with
Russell Westbrook because it's exactly yeah, like you know, and
this is We'll get into Darryl Moore at some point.
But like, I think he's a and I hate to
say it, I think he's a math nerd. I don't
think he understands the concept. Well, he is definitely a
math nerd. That's not even an insult. He would probably
tell you that. Well. I don't think he's a math nerd.
(14:06):
And that's that's in vogue in the NBA today. Math nerds,
I guess, yeah, I mean it is, but it is.
Whether it should be is another question, But it is
in vogue. And who just who just orchestrated the whole
Kawhi Leonard thing. Jerry west a basketball guy through and through,
but the logo Ryan No, I mean, I just the
thing with Morey that I was gonna get to is
(14:27):
I get it. I get what his background is. I
don't think he has a concept of how puzzle pieces
actually fit together on a basketball court. And with the
Clippers as an example, Kawhi Paul George, they play off
of each other, Patrick Beverlely Montrese Harold. The pieces all
fit together, and you look at the Rockets like, yeah,
of course, D'Antonio isn't going to change anything because he's
(14:49):
basically done the same thing since the Phoenix Suns days
a decade ago with Steve Nash. But will it Will
it work? I don't think so. But I don't necessarily
blame him because he is is who he is, and
he can only go with the players that management gets him.
I just don't think the puzzle pieces fit to keep
doing it. Well. I quickly address what you said about
Darryl Morey, and he is the poster child for analytics. Okay,
(15:14):
the gym of the Houston Rockets and the problem with
analytics whether it's baseball or basketball. And I think, look,
analytics are a part of your basketball equation. Every NBA
front office does, obviously, but should have a strong analytics department. Okay,
(15:34):
they just shouldn't be running things you should. Your analytics
should not determine every move, Okay, because what analytics don't
do is taking the consideration the human elements chemistry. Is
a player cold blooded under pressure? Or will he choke
under pressure? Heart fortitude, character, and Daryl Morey. Look, he's
(15:59):
a he's a good gem. He's overrated because some people
think he's tremendous. And the thing about Darryl Moorey is
that even though he is the analytics guy, he consistently
makes moves that not only disregard analytics, but often go
the exact opposite of analytics. Okay, now I'm with it.
(16:22):
If Colin Cowhurt calls it analytics, I'm taking the analytics
into consideration, but making moves based on other factors. But
his moves are beyond that. Russell Westbrook doesn't fit analytically
at all with the Rockets. Chris Paul didn't, Jamie Butler,
who they wanted, didn't, Carmelo Anthony didn't, Dwight Howard didn't.
(16:46):
And so that is the situation with Daryl Morey. He
I heard Colin Cowhurt say it. It It was a great example.
It's like if if you're a fashion expert and you
dress horrible, you know, it doesn't make sense. But I
want to get to Mike D'Antoni and what he said.
I will say this and then let you go in
(17:07):
and you know, go comment on it, and then we'll
go address the rest of it what he said his comments.
Second half of his comment to say you can't win
that way or essentially the way he coaches and his
team's play is bs. I agree with him there now, Aaron,
I'm in the minority. It may even be a minority
of one. I think Mike d'antoni's a Hall of fame coach.
(17:29):
He hadn't won a title. But Don Nelson is a
Hall of fame coach. He never won a title. And
Mike D'Antoni has helped change basketball. Okay, was what he
did in Phoenix seven seconds or less. Obviously, he's had
great success in Houston, even though they haven't won the ring.
Now he's got his warts. Don't get me wrong, but
I just think he's been a Hall of fame coach,
(17:51):
and I do agree with him that the way his
teams play can win championships. Let's not forget two years
ago they were right there. If Chris Paul doesn't get
hurt and they're up three two on Golden State, maybe
they win that series, and maybe they win the championship.
When he was in Phoenix the year that his players
(18:15):
a Mari stydomar boors Dial got suspended against San Antonio.
I believe they were up to one, but even if
they weren't, that was a team they could have won
that series without the suspensions. And the Western Playoffs were
the championship that year and really those years, a lot
of those years in that era, and so Phoenix would
(18:36):
have won that championship, I believe. I think they would
have faced maybe New Jersey the nets, but they would
have won, I believe a title. So Barr except for
that fight, that brawl, and he didn't keep his players
on the bench. So I do agree with him that
his style can win titles. I'm glad you said that
(18:57):
Hall of Fame and not whole of fame. I don't know,
but I do agree. I think because he hasn't won
a championship like that's what you use against him to
kind of tear down what he's done as a coach.
And I listen, one of his teams are always entertaining. Two.
I agree that I think he's ushered in this era
where I've even heard him say that in the Phoenix days,
(19:20):
they wanted to shoot more threes, but it was so
revolutionary at the time that they thought they were crazy
for taking thirty or thirty five threes and so now
they're at fifty fifty five whatever with the rockets. But
I'm with you in that I do think the style
can win. And it was really interesting when you open
the segment. I thought you were gonna say I think
he's crazy for saying the style can win, which obviously
(19:43):
you weren't. You were saying that the combination of Westbrook
and Harden. I agree with you. That's also why I
was so disappointed in this trade from Houston's perspective, because
it seems like and I hate to keep bringing it
back to Darryl Morey. I know we're focused on Dantoni here,
but it seems like every time they're right on the edge,
Darryl Moorey feels like he has to tinker for the
sake of tinkering. And I know that Chris Paul struggled.
(20:06):
I know the problems that they had internally in the
locker room, but I don't think that they're closer to
a championship with Russell Westbrook in place of Chris Paul.
I don't think they would have been if they had
gotten Jimmy Butler this offseason. And that's what's disappointing to
me is because I do think this style can work.
I do think Dan Tony has somehow become an underrated
(20:26):
coach because he hasn't won a championship, hasn't made of finals.
But I agree that this style can work. I just
don't think it's with this particular group of players headlined
by Hart In Westbrook. Yeah, I'm with you, and that's why,
like you said, I agree with the second half of
his statement, this type you can win this way. But
for him to say he's not tweaking anything, They're done.
(20:48):
They're done. Houston Rockets fans, you are done. I didn't
think you were winning a championship anyway. I think you'll
make the playoffs. I think you'll be X. I think
you'll be must sy TV. I think at times it'll
be you know, people like people stopping to watch a
car accident. You know, you got more talented. Westbrook is
(21:12):
better than Chris Paul at this point, but this will
not work. The only chance these two players have of
playing together and it working, in my view, is if
they had something akin to a Golden State type offense
where there was a lot of ball movement, player movement,
where Westbrook was moving and cutting and flashing and running
(21:35):
along the baseline and Harden was moving at times where
the ball wasn't sticking. That's where I think it could
It will have the best chance of working. But to
not tweak much, not tweak what not tweak James Harden
having the ball in his hands forty something percent of
the time, dribbling out the clock and either taking the
(21:58):
shot or pass into somebody with the shot clock going down,
and then they've got to shoot. It is Russell Westbrook
is the is about the furthest thing you can get
from a spot up three point shooter, And if you're
not gonna tweak much, then that's what you're gonna make him.
And that's not gonna work. Yeah, And that's why this
(22:21):
move was so disappointing to me. And I think I
actually texted you and Rob when it went down because
you guys were on air and you know, and I think,
and this is what's the sad part to me, And
it goes back to Dantoni is I think this is
his last run, right because they fired his whole coaching staff.
They're not gonna win this year. To your point, they're
gonna be fun to watch. They're not gonna win, and
(22:43):
this guy's sixty eight years old, and I do think
he's gonna go down as one of those coaches, maybe
like Don Nelson, as you just referenced, Chris that doesn't
get the credit that he deserves because he was already
on thin ice fair or not going into the offseason.
As I just mentioned, they they got rid of the
entire coaching staff and it's not gonna work. And I
actually feel bad for him because again, as a head coach,
(23:04):
you can only use the puzzle pieces that are given
to you by management. But I just I don't see
any way that this works unless, as you just said,
Chris Russell Westbrook completely changes the way that he plays basketball,
because you just kind of we kind of just saw
it with Chris Paul, right, Chris Paul too many dribbles,
wasn't going It's like, I just don't think it's gonna work.
(23:24):
And I actually feel bad for Dantoni because I think
come next April, May June, he's gonna be the fall
guy rather than Darryl Moorey, rather than James Harden, rather
than Russell Westbrook, no question, and look, James hardened by
himself in the Dan Tony offense we see is incredibly effective. Yes,
and he didn't alter his game one iota for Chris Paul,
(23:48):
not one iota. In fact, he became more ball. I
haven't checked the usage rates. Rob Ge checked those. I
think he became more ball dominant just from the eye test.
And Russell Westbrook by himself would be a terror in
Mike dan Tony's offense. A downhill point guard coming off
(24:09):
a high picking roll with shooters around him at the
three point line. Rustbrook would beat doing damage. But with
James Harden there, that's the problem. Harden's not gonna be
a spot up shooter. And it gets to Dan Tony
when he says, I'm not gonna tweak it. As much
as I like him, and obviously I like him, I
say he's a Hall of famer. He's a one trick pony.
(24:32):
Aaron sure, that's his problem. When he went to New
York and didn't have the pieces to play the way
he wants to play, they were horrible. When he went
to the Lakers and didn't have the pieces. He had
good pieces, Kobe Dwight Howard, but he didn't have the
guys that fit his system. They weren't good and it's
(24:52):
the same like now he's got guys, he needs to
make some changes. And so that's why I hesitate, and
I hesitate. Don't call him an offensive genius. Great offensive coach,
but not a genius because he doesn't adapt to his personnel.
And I think there is a way to adapt. That's
what made Steve Kerr such a great coach. Mark Jackson
(25:14):
was a good coach. That team was a good fifty
something win team, second round playoff team. But Steve Kerr
went in there, put in the perfect system for that
group of guys, and they went to heights. Nobody, maybe
even themselves, didn't think they could. And you know what,
Chris quick aside here, I want to let you know
you asked me a question. By James Harden's usage rate,
(25:35):
it has gone up each of the last three years.
Think of that. You got another ball dominant, All star,
future Hall of Famer at your side, and you your
usage rate went up. Sure, No, I mean here and
Westbrooker buddies, but I hope there are buddies two years
from now. I mean right, yeah, no, I mean listen,
(25:56):
we all heard Kadie and Steph Oh there s Yeah,
and we saw quickly that deteriorated. No, and I mean,
and that's what I will. I will push back, and
maybe it's a conversation we have after the break, But
I do think he's a little more adaptable, or he's
at least good with getting more out of pieces than
maybe he gets credit for. I mean, who was Steve
(26:16):
Nash before he played for Mike D'Antoni. The Rockets won
forty one games the year before he got there. They
win fifty six his first year. Second year, they're a
game away from going to the NBA. Well, both of
those cases, though he had players that fit his style.
I get it, But Nash was a two time All Star. Now,
you're right, he took him to levels. I mean, he
never would have been an MVP. I don't even think
he'd be a Hall of Famer without D'Antoni. So I
(26:37):
agree with you there. No, Yeah, I just that's my
only pushback. I don't think they're gonna win next year.
I don't think I think he is gonna end up
being the fall guy. I don't think he gets credit for. Listen,
if he doesn't have the pieces, you're right, But I
do think he gets more out of certain guys than
they would get out of themselves or other coaches would
get out of them. Yeah, certain types. I'm with you
(26:59):
on Nash, but we will we will maybe have to
agree to disagree on that when that never happens on
this show. Really, you just disagree. He never agree to disagree.
We just disagree. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Odd Couple with Chris Broussard and Rob Parker weekdays
at seven pm Eastern four pm Pacific at the bottom
of the hour. Thirty minutes from now. Rick Buker will
(27:23):
join us. He just wrote in a very interesting, insightful
article on Bleacher Report about how several GMS we're saying
that none of the players, not one, not Clay, not
kay not KD, not Kyrie, although Kyrie didn't technically sign
(27:44):
a max because he gave a little money to DeAndre Jordans,
but none of the players are worth a max contract,
all right. So here's what they said. I'm gonna read
some of the quotes. It's really interesting. Here's a former
player who now works as an executive. He was asked
(28:04):
to define what a max player is to him. Here's
his quote. A leader in the locker room and on
the floor, someone I'm confident and comfortable giving the ball
to in late game situations. He's leading my organization on
and off the court where we need to go. Guys
that I played with, Guys that I continue to watch.
(28:27):
I want them to get as many dollars as possible.
But when we talk about the term max guy, how
many of those guys realistically are there? Now here's another
a general manager anonymous of course, on Kawhi Leonard. As
far as in regards to max player, Kawhi is great
at getting his but he doesn't elevate anyone. He doesn't
(28:50):
rally his team. He does have leadership qualities, but it
depends on how you define leader. He's obviously not vocal
and he's not a galvanizer. He does it with his work,
ethic and buy example, here's another gem from the Western Conference,
the other ones from the East or in Clay. He
(29:11):
says he's a good player, but he's not a leader.
He just shows up and hoops. Aaron, I got a
lot of stuff to say about these quotes, but first
I want to give you the floor. Yeah. First of all,
I want to shut out these two anonymous gems. Who
are about to soon be anonymous xgms. Because if you
don't think Kauhi and Clay are worthy of max dollars,
(29:34):
then I honestly, I don't know what league you're watching,
and you know, I listen, I get in this utopic,
perfect society. Your star player has all of these qualities.
But just because Kawhi isn't super vocal, or Katie can
be moody, or Lebron has off the court interests, it
doesn't mean that one when the light comes on, that
(29:55):
they're not ready to play, two that they can't be
the face of your organization, and three that they aren't
worthy of every single dollar that we're paying them. I
just think it's a preposterous concept. And if you want
to argue about certain other players, that's fine, But certainly
Kawhi and even Klay Thompson, I just don't even know
how you can make the argument that they're not whatever
(30:16):
the term is franchise players. There is no argument, and
it makes you wonder what in the world are some
of these guys thinking, and how are they running teams?
For a guy to say this about Kawhi Leonard, he
doesn't elevate anyone. He doesn't rally his team. He elevated
the whole country by thank you. He's not a galvinizer.
(30:36):
Hold on, He just went to a team that was
absolutely shook in the presence of Lebron James, a team
that couldn't get out of its own way whenever they
saw Lebron James, a team that froze in the presence
of Lebron James. And he led that team to a championship.
(31:00):
He had no second star in the Big Three era,
no second star. All these other teams gotta have three
superstars and is the Big Three and all that, and
he has doesn't even have a second star and he
wins the championship. How is that not lifting other guys,
making other guys better, elevating them. Look, Kawhi Leonard is
(31:24):
this Here's how Kawhi Leonard galvanized his team. He went
in there as a superstar, listen to the coach, gave
the coach respect, bought into the system, didn't complain about
what they don't have, didn't complain about being in Toronto,
(31:45):
didn't complain about I want to go to southern California.
He just showed up, kept his mouth shut, was friendly
with guys became friends with guys led by example and
fit into the system. That's it, and that's all I want.
I don't need you to entertain me with comedy or
(32:05):
to be the biggest talker. And you know, given you
know new Rockney speeches. That's all nice if you can
do it, but if not produced on the court, and
Kawhi Leonard has done just that. Let's not forget Aaron.
The last time we saw Kawhi Leonard in a Spurs
uniform during the postseason, what he do? He had the
(32:26):
under man Spurs up twenty two points on the Golden
State Warriors with Kevin Durant. Now, I don't think they
would have won that series even if Kawhid stayed healthy.
I actually don't even think they would have won that game.
But I don't know, that's just me. The facts say
they were up twenty two and Kawhi was leading them
(32:47):
over a much more talented team. This dude produces. I mean,
he's arguably the best player in the world. And who
if he doesn't get a MAX who in the world
does well? And that was my thought when I read this,
is if Kauai isn't a MAX player, who is and
it was funny because you mentioned off top that, you know,
I've covered a lot of college basketball my day, and
(33:08):
I remember talking to Chris Beard, who's the head coach
of Texas Tech. They made the Final Four this year,
and I remember asking him about kind of leadership and
all that kind of stuff, and he said, sometimes the
best thing you can do as a leader is to follow.
And what he meant by that is exactly what you said, Chris.
Not everybody is yea rah rah you know, let you know,
we're gonna run through a brick wall. And Kauai was
(33:30):
the ultimate leader in the fact that he led by example.
It's what you said, It's what I said. He put
an entire organization on his back. He put an entire
country on his back. And I just, you know, I
don't know if this GM is speaking from a place
of jealousy, stupidity. I don't know where it comes from.
But I just I don't get the idea that he
could be anything other like like like it makes no
(33:54):
sense to me. I'm trying to think off the top
of my head. If you're not. Is he saying that
he wouldn't pay Kauai max money or he because like
if that, there's no way he wouldn't pay Kawai exactly, Like,
I froze there because I'm sitting there thinking what could
he have possibly meant? Because if there were thirty teams
in the NBA this year, and all thirty of them
would have paid Kawai any dollar amount that they could
(34:15):
have to get him to the organization, So to me,
it just makes no sense at all, no question about it.
And look, Kawhi Leonard. Part of why I'm so confident
that the Clippers are gonna be great is because Kawhi
is just what this guy said. He's not vocal, just
does it with his work, ethic, does it by example.
He's just going to go fit in. He's gonna be great.
(34:38):
He's gonna be their best player, but he's going to
fit in. Think of so many of the other superstars
who bring, you know, more of a personality, They're more colorful.
Do you ask questions about them? Of course? Are they
gonna work with this guy? Are they gonna work with
this team? It's gonna take him a long time to adjust.
(34:58):
I think Kawhi fit in swimmingly, Yes, swimmingly in the
Clippers organization in locker room because of his personality and Clay. Look,
Clay is similar and he's not as good as Kauai,
but he's a great defender, two way player, just like Kawai.
I think Aaron one half of the greatest backcourt in
(35:21):
NBA history, And so to say he's not a max
player again kind of ridiculous. Well, and I think the
other thing too, The ultimate compliment to a player is
who else wants to play with him? And think about
what Paul George did this summer to make that happen, Like,
like he literally put his reputation on the line. He
put his I don't want to see, he put his
(35:43):
career on the line. But we'll never think of Paul
George the same way again because in a lot of ways,
he just bailed on Oklahoma City. And the point that
I've made on all the shows that I've been on,
including my own on Saturday nights, it's not as though
Oklahoma City did not live up to their end of
the bargain at all. Now, did they fall short, yes,
but they made the playoffs. They won forty nine games
(36:03):
in the regular season. It wasn't as though they won
twenty two games, and Paul George was just looking for
a life raft out of there, and so for Kawhi
to convince that guy, hey, give up everything you're building.
A year ago, you are smoking cigars with nast at
a party in Oklahoma City at midnight. Give all that
up to come with me. I also saw I don't
(36:24):
know if you saw this, Chris, but at Summer League.
I think it was Lou Williams and Patrick Beverley walking
through a casino at you know, one forty five in
the morning whenever they found out they're doing, you know,
jumping Jackson cartwheels in the casino at Summer League. And
I think that's part of leadership too. What do you
get out of your teammates? What do you bring to
the practice facility every day? But do guys want to
(36:45):
play with you? I know it's something you and Rob
talk about all the time. Lebron James, do guys want
to play with him at this point in his career?
I know you feel differently than Rob, But the point being,
there is no doubt that guys want to be around Kawhi.
I think that's the ultimate compliment to him. I agree,
and I think as we want to play with Clay
as well. Yeah, you know, this guy just shows up
and hoops. I mean, you need guys like that. I
(37:07):
don't need everybody to be in the team's business. I
don't need everybody to feel like they've got something to say.
I need Yeah, you need guys a few guys like that.
Some guys that are rye ry and talk all the
time and want to say this and that. Some guys
that might, you know, hold the coaching staff more accountable
than other players. But at the same time, I need
(37:30):
guys that are low maintenance, and that's what both of
these guys are. Kawhi Leonard and Clay Thompson are probably
the most low maintenance, off the top of my head
stars in the league. And Clay Thompson is what I
said with Chris Bierder minute go. Sometimes the best leaders
lead by following, and that's Clay. Clay just comes in,
(37:52):
does his job. Whatever. I want to ask you real quick,
because I was thinking about this when I was reading
this article. I do think it's interesting the concept of
a max play or the face of a franchise whatever.
I think we get so caught up with Oh, so
and so is a superstar, so and so is this
and the number of guys who really do kind of
check all the boxes I think is actually smaller than
(38:13):
what most people realize. All I heard all year Kyrie
Irving's a superstar. Well they lost in the second round
of the playoffs and his team went further without him
than with him. Ben Simmons, well he can't shoot at three.
How many guys do you think are actually true either superstar,
franchise players, difference makers. Because I do think that list,
I will give the GMS and all them credit for
this is I do think that list is probably smaller
(38:35):
than most fans want to give credit for. No, I
agree with that. Now. I look, you have a ton
of guys making max money that can't lead a team.
It can't be the best player on a really good team. Yep, Okay,
with all due respect, Tobias Harris, He's not gonna be
a best player on a championship team. Chris Chris Middleton,
you know, I mean Chandler Parsons. For goodness, say, got
(38:56):
two MAX contracts during his career. What a life that, right?
I mean, Charmed, he's the most blessed player in the league.
I mean, so you I get that now, I'm with
you on that. There are a lot of guys that
don't deserve the MAX. They get it because of timing, circumstances,
whatever it may be. DeAngelo Russell not a MAX player,
you know, but he got it. And so the problem
(39:18):
with the article was them picking on Kawhi and Clay. Sure,
that was where they went awry, But I get exactly
what you're saying. Look, if you want to say a
MAX player, the ultimate definition is a guy who can
be the best player on a championship team. How many
(39:40):
guys do we have in the league right now that
have proven that. You got Steph Curry, Lebron James, and
Kawhi Leonard. Now some people might say KAD because he
was obviously the best player in Golden State. My only
thing with that is I would say that team was
so st act sure that you know what I mean, Like,
(40:03):
you could have put a number of guys in that position,
not to take anything away from KD, and those teams
would have won those titles. When he was in Oklahoma City,
he didn't lead that team to a championship as close
as they got. Now we'll have his chance in Brooklyn.
We'll see if he can do it there, but really
you're really talking about three guys who have absolutely proven it,
(40:25):
So you know, I think these guys and remember this
about the Max Aaron. It's not what these guys are worth,
or what at least the top superstars are worth. There's
a cap on it. Lebron James should not be making
the same amount of money as Damian Lillard. Great point, YEP,
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