February 12, 2021 • 28 mins
FOX Sports Radio weekend host Bernie Fratto is in for Chris, and he and Rob explain why they would absolutely trade the #1 overall pick (Trevor Lawrence) for Deshaun Watson if they ran the Jacksonville Jaguars, get into a heated debate about Urban Meyer's controversial hire of Chris Doyle, and explain why they have an issue with LeBron James padding his stats this season to try and bolster his MVP and GOAT credentials.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
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(00:21):
s R. You're listening to the best of the Odd
Couple with Chris Brussa and Ron Harker. Bernie, Let's let's
kick this off here with the Jacksonville Jaguars. And today
Trevor Lawrence had his pro day through and you know,
(00:41):
m Herban Meyers all over it, you know, covering around,
loving what he's seeing. Everybody's ranting, Raven. But there was
a report out there that said basically that Urban Meyer
would consider trading the number one pick Trevor Lawrence for
DeShawn Watson. And you know, Watson wants out, and it's
(01:05):
pretty a well documented. The Texans said that they're not
interested in trading him at all, Bernie, but you know
that could all change. I've always said I don't I
don't want anybody to stick around if they don't want
to be there. And I've courted pat Riley a million times.
Either you're in or you're out. It's real simple, and
it doesn't sound like DeShawn Watson is in. But I'm
(01:27):
gonna start with you, and what would you do? You know?
The NFL's change. There are no five year plans anymore.
At the old days. One of my old days, Aaron
Rodgers sat for three years behind Brett Fad before he
ever played and got a starting job. Those days are over.
Guys come out out of college and a dump jumped
(01:48):
in and they're gonna be starters right away almost and
they're expected to almost perform right away. If you were
Irban Meyer, what would you do, Bernie? Well, first of all,
he's got the draft appital, he's got you know, salary
cap room. Quarterback is the thinnest position in all of sports,
(02:08):
rob And I heard Bucky Brooks on with you guys
earlier today said you can't do it because they're not
ready to win. Now, I throw a flag. When you
have a transcendent quarterback like Shawn Watson is, we're talking
about a guy first two full years as a starter,
made the playoffs. He's a proven commodity. One hundred and
four touchdowns and thirty six interceptions. Here's a guy who
steps in. He's the face of the franchise. And it
(02:31):
wasn't that long ago, Rob, when Blake Bortles and Jacksonville
were just minutes away from the Super Bowl and they
had New England beat they couldn't close the deal. So
it's not like they're a million miles away like the
Lions are. Here's where I really would strongly suggest urban
Meyer make this deal as quick as he can, because
if you go back to nineteen ninety nine, Rob, only
(02:53):
one of the twenty eight quarterbacks selected in the top
five ever led their team to a Super Bowl victory
would be Eli Manning. Fourteen to to twenty eight have
a losing record and only two have won an MVP.
That's not a lot of success for what you call
a can't miss prospect. And we know that Trevor Lawrence
checks all the boxes. But the reality of it is,
(03:16):
although Trevor Lawrence checks every box, Deshaun Watson is the
glimpse into the crystal ball of what Trevor Lawrence could
look like if everything works out. So you Adwater Rents Boom,
You're in. You got your starting quarterback, for probably the
next five to ten years. I can't imagine why he
wouldn't make this deal. But that's just me. Now, I'm
with you. And here, Deshaun Watson's only twenty five burn
(03:39):
He's not thirty five. He's young. He's one of the
bright young quarterbacks in the league. Most people consider him
in the top five right when you're talking about Aaron
Rodgers and Tom Brady and Mahomes and and he's right
up there in that And he's right in that group
(04:00):
with everybody. So that's something that you have to look
at and say, if you make this, you already know
what the finished product is, right, unlike Trevor Lawrence. And yes,
the sky could be the limit. You could luck out
and get the next great thing. Maybe he's the next
Patrick Mahomes and wins a MVP is first year starting
(04:21):
as a quarterback, Bernie and a super Bowl is second
year started at a quarterback and gets back to the
Super Bowl is third year but doesn't win it. So
maybe he's that guy. But when you have a Deshaun Watson,
guys like that who are proven and who have numbers
Bernie and become available, it's just like the Brooklyn Nets.
(04:42):
Did they really need James Harden with the team they
had put up? Probably not. But when a guy like
that comes available, you jump on it. You want to
stockpile talent. That's why I think I would do that.
And if I'm the Texans, I know they said Bernie
that they don't want to trade Deshaun Watson, I'm sorry.
I just don't want anybody around who doesn't want to
(05:03):
be there. You know, just think about would you keep
your wife around if she really didn't want to want
to be there? Ask me, and they answer is no,
I'd pretty much been in that boat for thirty years.
I don't know. He rep probably asking a wrong guy. Look,
let's go back to DeShawn Watson, what I call proof
of performance. His first year, he only started six games
when he was three and three, and then he comes
(05:24):
back eleven and five playoff team, ten and six playoff team,
and obviously last year was a big dumpster fire. Although
he put up huge numbers, that kind of performance doesn't
grow on trees. Everybody's inamored with the number one pick.
If I was a GM scout head coach, I'd be
scared to death at the number one pick and I'm
gonna tell you why, because there's always plenty of star
(05:45):
power throughout the entire first round. So trade down, get
yourself a proven commodity. Guys like Patrick Mahomes, JJ Watt,
Aaron Donald, Lamar Jackson, DeShawn Watson himself, they were all
picked outside of the top ten. So who says you
need to have the number one and pick? Anyway, Yeah,
it looks good, it feels good. You think like there's
a new dawn of a day coming right when you
(06:07):
get the number one pick, and you don't want to
pass up on it and the potential. But I always
take And I remember when when I covered the Cincinnati
Reds and Luke Pinnella was the manager. He was always sweet,
Loue Man one of the best. We're gonna tell a
story just came about that story. No, but but he
he always said it's production over potential. He would take
(06:30):
production right over potential at any time. And guys who
produce are the guys you want on your football team
or baseball team or basketball team. And Watson is that guy.
I don't know if it's gonna happen. If I'm Trevor Lawrence,
I don't worry about it, you know what I mean, Like,
I'm just here to play football. Whatever team wants me, fine,
(06:52):
And if you're Watson, you know, I don't know is
Jacksonville really I know they got some cab room, Bernie,
I know they got some draft picks, but how close
are they? Is that really where he wants to go?
Jacksonville doesn't seem and he closed. The Texans in fact,
made the playoffs four the last six years. Rob. As
(07:12):
you will know, fortunes in the NFL can change virtually overnight.
The Lions, Yeah, thank you, good night, folks. Beck Cam
Newton to show Saturday. Cam Newton took over a moribund
team in Carolina. They were one in fifteen one year
and they were in the super Bowl the next year.
(07:32):
So fortunes can change, cultures can change. And you gotta
remember when a Deshaun Watson walks into the facility, this
is a guy who not only brings his physical ability
and his talent, his arm talent. And you know, there's
a reason that Dabbo Sweeney called him with Michael Jordan,
and I think there's some legitimacy to that. I don't
(07:54):
think that's hyperbole. He does things that other people can't
do when a play looks like it's dead. But be
that as it may. He can still play the position
and operate from the pocket and do all the things
you do. But he's also got huddle presence, and he's
got a character about him, to the best of my knowledge,
that elevates people around him. So you need people like
that that if you're going to you know, if the
(08:15):
franchise is going to take a step to the next level.
Let Us make no mistake, urban Meyer is going to
be under a fair amount of pressure to win relatively quickly.
He might get a one year hall pass, but this
isn't going to be one of those deals where they're
gonna look up four or five years from now. You
don't Smatt Millen and Marty morning Wagon and Rod Marinelli. No,
those days are long gone. They're paying urban Meyer twelve
million dollars a year not to be an also ran.
(08:37):
So I think you make a tremendous splash. It's a
good start over for DeShawn Watson. You do what you
have to do. Again, I'm not disagreeing philosophically with what
Bucky Brooks said, but when you have a transcendent quarterback
like DeShawn Watson, who's already shown proof of performance. I
think you have to take advantage of that. Fox Sports
(08:58):
Radio has the best sports talk line up in the nation.
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(09:18):
iHeartRadio app. And you know What's not dead The story
about Irvin Myers hire of a strength and conditioning coach
in Chris Doyle, who was accused of racism at Iowa
in an independent investigation. Players Black players on the team
(09:42):
said that Doyle said stuff to them, treated them differently.
It was a mess there. He wound up resigning and
taking one point one million dollars with them. Just a
really weird hire during these times. And you know, there's
been a lot of criticism him urban Meyer in the
(10:02):
national media that why would he make this controversial hire
so soon after one with down in Iowa and the
players and bring him into a locker room where seventy
percent of the players are black. It's just really, really weird.
And here's Urban Meyer defending the higher I have known
(10:24):
chrispher close to twenty years. Our relationship goes back to
when I was at Utah and he was the number
one strength coach and really he was doing sports performance
before sports performance became a high priority. And I've known him,
I've studied him. I vetted him thoroughly along with our
general manager and owner. Feel great about the hire, about
his expertise at that at that position, So we vetted
(10:46):
him thoroughly. Your confident there's not going to be any issues. Yeah,
you're very competent. What Urban Meyers? Shame on you. This
is classic good old boy network. He's a friend of mine.
(11:06):
I'm gonna turn my head, turn my cheek, turn the
other cheek. I don't know what they're talking about. I
know him. Nothing that went on. If everything was hunky dory,
why was he pushed out of Iowa? Come on, don't
buy into that. He was in Iowa for twenty years.
Why was he pushed out? Why was he made to
(11:28):
resign and move on? Because an independent investigation, this wasn't
charges by one person or hearsay. They did a total investigation,
and multiple players called him out quotes like if you
don't play well or what, I will send you back
to the ghetto. Really, Bernie Fratto, really is that where
(11:52):
we are Antremima and Uncle better out of jobs in
this country? What is this? Rob This is a very
highly charged situation, obviously, and as I said earlier with
the Randy Mueller, the risk reward aspect of this, considering
the fact that Urban Myers never coached in the NFL.
This is his first job. He hasn't played a practice
(12:15):
or hadn't had a practice or played a game. And
to call this kind of attention that is really unneeded.
You have to wonder what the thinking was. I want
to give me a little bit of latitude here because
I heard you and Chris earlier today. You think Urban
Meyer is just going to be a Nick Saban in
the end. We don't know that. I think he could
be more like a Jimmy Johnson. He did have success
(12:35):
in bowling Green Utah, Florida. Ohiuse Staton by the way,
Christyle worked for him at Utah. ID like to know
where there any of those incidents at Utah twenty years
ago and they're undefeated. Where I think having there asking
the wrong questions and maybe even having the wrong conversation.
Why was this enabled at Iowa for twenty years? Why
did that happen? And it happened while he was working
for somebody else. I'd also like to know, I'm not
(12:58):
a lot happen, so I'm gonna say his Well, we
weren't there, so you can speculating. Yeah, I'm not telling
you Got well, but but but you're talking about college
kids afraid of their scholarships, being accepting of things going around,
because who are they to stand up and say something
that's right? And Tom has changed, Bernie Got People aren't
aren't like that anymore. So people are willing to stand
(13:20):
out there. We saw at Missouri the football players didn't
like the racism going on on campus. You remember what
they did? They shut down the football program. That would
have happened twenty years ago. It was a different mindset.
I don't care what year it is. Here, never should
have been that kind of language. I need to know
why it was enabled Iowa. And I'd also liked to know.
I'm not a fan of Trent Balky by the way,
I know always bought his dealings with the forty nine ers.
(13:42):
But I digress. Here's where I'm going with that. What
did Trent and Bulky here to allow him to sign
off that? What did Shot Khan, who's a NOPs guy
who gives his people autonomy to run their businesses. What
did they were? What were the factors they considered in
vetting this and saying it was okay, What do we
know and why here when they put Chris Doyle out
(14:03):
front and center to talk about this and act for
contrition and we should hear for some players, I don't know,
we need to know more. On the face of it,
based on the evidence you're presenting, pretty hard to argue
with it. I just feel like we don't know all
the answers to all the questions. That's all I'm saying.
I know enough that he had to leave a job
and got a settlement and they did an independent investigation. Bernie,
(14:27):
I'm gonna buy into that. It wasn't like some but
you campus one thing and go ahead. You also said
you're in the second chances. Yes, I don't know, not
this soon, Not this soon. You're gonna give me a
date on the calendar. My third one doesn't feel right.
I just does well, the guys signing his paycheck said
it felt right, So why don't you ask them what
(14:48):
they were thinking? No, tell you what they would think,
and they would thinking that, yes, they got a brand
new shiny toy in Urban Meyer, and this is what
he wants. So we got a give him what he
wants because we just signed a new, five year, gazillion
dollar deal. So we can't say no to the shiny
new toy and then get him all upset. So they
(15:09):
signed off on it, hoping, wishing that there would be
no pushback. It happens all the time because Urban wanted it.
They didn't. They didn't want to stand up to him,
Bernie and say, but I know you just got here.
I know what it was, Rob, Rob shot Kann is
an international businessman. You think Urban Meyer's gonna intimidate him.
It ain't about intimidate him to what he's gonna get
(15:33):
his way. You want to single game in the NFL.
Yet you promised him control and he could hire his staff. Yes,
that's probably what was in the language, Bernie. That's what
you give up when you're the Jacksonville Jaguars and you
have a bad organization and you play two games in
Europe every year and one on Mars because you can't
(15:53):
sell tickets. You give up power to Laura. Guy like that,
and that's why they went. Most organizations would would have
put up the stop side and said, no way, no, how.
Why would you bring in the controversial figure before you
even get started. Why would you alienate a locker room
with seventy percent black players or room? You know that yet?
(16:16):
For you know that for a fact that the locker
rooms alienated? Do you know that? Look, let me take
it back from the top. Good, take it from the top.
Believe that. Let me take it from the top. I
probably would not have hired him. However, he didn't work
for me at Utah twenty years ago. I don't know
the relationship. I am not dismissing what he did at Iowa.
I'm wondering why it was enabled at Iowa. Now it
(16:38):
comes to Jacksonville, starting over, I think the risk reward
is too severe. Look at top people are reacting. But
to your question, why don't they hire him? They think
he'll produce results. Strength coaches are incredibly important in this
day and age, and so somewhere along the line, he's
believing the cost does not exceed the benefit. Now, I
don't know that, and you don't know that, and I
(16:59):
think obviously your personal feelings on this matter are are
very well documented and understood. But the full story hasn't
been told yet. Robin hasn't that. I'm not buying why
Because they did an investigation and he's out of a job,
rob there had to be some whole idea, Wait, hold on,
(17:20):
this whole idea that we don't know the full story.
Why why don't we know the full story? I believe
the kids. Why did the kids come up? I believe
them in Iowa? Hold on, we're you know, we're having
two different conversations. I believe what he was allegedly accused
of doing in Iowa he most likely did. Were there smoke,
there's fire? Why was it enabled there? And urban Meyer
(17:41):
wasn't working there? That's my point. Happen at Did this
happen he got fired? Did this happen at Utah? When
he was there under urban Meyer? Interview those kids? No,
we don't have to do that, Bernie. Just because you
didn't do it or the kids didn't say anything back then,
doesn't mean it happen. That Canaan was out at one time.
(18:02):
You have to do it your whole life or kill
nine people. OK, one person is enough. He offended. He
hasn't even been somebody calling Bernie. He hasn't give me
a strong man argument. He hasn't even been man enough
to admit and acknowledge that he's done something wrong. That's
the problem. That's why he's not ready to get another job.
You have to first fess up, own it and say
(18:25):
you made a mistake and you're gonna learn from it.
When we hear that, then you could put him in
in the idea of him getting another job. He's refused
to do it. That's why he doesn't deserve another chance. Now,
all right, I'm not looking to play god here. I
would just say this. I agree with you that I
don't know why he didn't get out front and center
and get you know, on top of this with some
(18:46):
semblance of order. I'm not so sure what the decision
was made, or why the decision was made by urban Meyer.
He had to have this guy, but the owner signed
off on it. They're the one that writes the checks.
I think you've got to let this play out now.
I like to know that this happened at Utah well,
it was under urban Meyer's watch, because if it happened
there too, look Bobby Knight. It took many years later
(19:07):
until Bobby Knight was outed. I mean all kinds, Plain
a minute, Bernie, what happened at Ohio State where he
kept an come at me with the strawman argument, we
could do no it? Ohire, Tell me if you think
you know what happened with the text to his wife. No,
but what I'm talking about scrambling. Yes, because he's in
(19:27):
the neighbler, he protects his friends. That's his history. We
have to go by that. That's why this is bad.
If you told me he hired this guy, Chris Doyle
and he didn't know Chris Doyle from Adam, maybe I
would buy into it. But this is his friend, just
like the assistant coach at Ohio State who his wife
(19:47):
knew was abusing his his his wife, but he claims
he had no idea. I'm not buying it. His track
record isn't good enough for me to take him at
face value. He vetted Chris Doyle. No, that's his buddy.
He's trying to hook up. And that's why it's bad.
That's why the black players on this team should not
allow this. That's why other people are speaking out on this.
(20:11):
This is not just Rob Parker and Chris Boussard. These
are former players all, plenty of guys, plenty of guys
I don't want to name. I don't want to hear
from me. As the end, you don't want to validate
any other point of view. So give me the two
names you heard. Who just told you? Marcus Spears, Uh,
(20:33):
Jay Williams um all those guys. I don't have to
Williams personalities, but they did speak out about it. And
my point is this guy does not deserve an opportunity
until at first he acknowledges that he's offended other people.
Next day holds a press conference and ask for forgiveness,
(20:54):
and will you let him? Will you? Will you? Will
you cut him a breakdown. I don't believe he should
be hired right now. You can answer the question, No,
he's already been hired. No, there's nothing he can do.
You don't believe you're not offended the guy. I'm I'm
making an objective argument, you're making a subjective argument. There's
(21:16):
a difference. I'm telling you that there's no way in
this climate, in this country, that this guy should be
put right back in a situation that he just came
out of in dealing with black players, especially if he
is not willing to acknowledge that he offended you. If
I offended you, Bernie, and you say, Rob, what you
(21:37):
just said to me offended me. If I didn't mean
to offend you, you know what I would do. I
would apologize to you. And that's not what he did.
That's why he doesn't deserve another chance. Fox Sports Radio
has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch
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(21:58):
All right, let's switch to the NBA and Lebron James
and the Lakers. They are kicking off a game on
ESPN tonight ten pm Eastern, seven pm Pacific, the Lakers
twenty and six against the Grizzlies ten and ten. But
let's let's focus in on Lebron James and right now, Bernie.
If the season were to end, he'd have a good
(22:20):
shot at winning the MVP. That's how well he's playing,
and he's been playing. He's coming off of playing three
straight games of forty minutes or more. Here's a guy
in his eighteenth season. You would think his foot would
be off the gas. He would be trying to figure
out how to you know, conserve some energy for another
(22:43):
championship run that he's trying to get the six championships.
But it does feel like Lebron wants to pile up
the stats. He wants to do as much as he can.
He knows he's behind Michael Jordan, even though he proclaimed
that he he was the goat after they came back
from three to one over Golden State. That's when he
proclaimed he was the goat. But as we saw Bernie,
(23:06):
when the uh last dat you the documentary came out, Uh,
you know, they did a poll and this was not
these were not these were millennials, and Jordan swept all
of the polls about being the greatest player, So that
that kind of pushed Lebron to the back. But it
looks like he wants to get Kareem Abdul Jabbar's most
(23:27):
points and some other records and pile up some MVPs.
Where are you on him playing these heavy minutes for
stats instead of trying to be you know, if you're
a Laker fan, wouldn't you want him to be uh
not play these uh these many minutes and having a
chance to repeat and win another championship. I think Lebron's
(23:47):
got another agenda. He's got an ulterior motive. Greatness needs
no self promotion. And when he refers to himself as
the goat and rob, I just want to digress for
just a second. I always refused to participate in the
Jordan versus Lebron goat argument because neither side's ever gonna submit.
But you and I both saw Jordan courtside, and if
(24:07):
you've seen both courtside, I don't know anybody who've seen
both courtside. They didn't vote for Jordan. All I've ever
said is that Jordan. If my life was on the
line and I needed one guy to win me a game,
it would beat Jordan. It wouldn't be Lebron, it would
be Jordan. Look, Lebron wants to win an MVP. He's
on a mission to win an MVP. Why because what
does he say when they win the championship in the
COVID era and I didn't respect there should be no
(24:29):
asterisk it. It was just as difficult to win. He
they didn't have to travel on all those things. But
everybody was in the same boat. So give the man
his due. But he gets up there because I want
my damn respect. Really, that's what's on your mind. You
just brought a championship to Los Angeles. You can now
join the Wilt era, that your Barira, the Magic era,
Kareem era, the Kolbe and Shack era. And now you've
(24:51):
joined that era and you can actually say your jersey's
on the wall. You've won a championship and all you
want to say is I want my damn respect. Lebron
in me of a guy that I'll gave you the
shirt office back, then call six press conferences to remind
you he did it. He's got on a gender rob
He's playing forty minutes to night. You're darn right. He
watched that Jordan documentary back in March. We all did.
(25:12):
He said, oh my god, Isaiah was playing forty minutes
a night. Magic is playing forty minutes a night. Jordan's
playing forty minutes a night. Those guys are badasses, man.
They showed up every night. They didn't play around, and
when Jordan went into the lane, he got smacked around
like a You know, a qpie doll, different ballgame. He's
not saying I've got to do that if I'm gonna
(25:32):
be taken more seriously, what do I have to do
in my life to bridge that gap between or I
think I am and where I think I'm perceived versus
where I want to be. I will tell you, Rob,
you courver the NBA for a lot of years when
Jordan Bird, Magic Isaiah they took the floor, you actually
feared those guys. I don't think people fear Lebron and
the way he wants to be feared. Yeah, And I
(25:55):
think you're right. The idea that you have to ask
people or try to vince people, Bernie that you're that guy,
you shouldn't have to do that. That's just it's just
not necessary. That's why I say all the time anytime
you're trying to convince me that somebody belongs in the
Hall of Fame and all that, if I said to
you Willie Mays, Hank Aaron Ken Griffey Jr. What debate
(26:17):
is there is there a debate. There's no debate. So
when you have to debate me about somebody and Lebron
is still in this situation, it's just interesting to me
that in you're eighteen, you know, he's still going after
the numbers. He's still you know, trying to get that MVP.
And then even Anthony Davis this year seemed like like
(26:40):
out of the gate, he just was took his foot
off the gas, like like I thought, Bernie he would
have a chance to be MVP this year. Remember he
led the Lakers in every category last year except for
assist at Lebron and we know when there are two
great players on the same team, Bernie oftentimes that excess
(27:00):
out one guy, right, because they split the vote on
a team. That's why Lebron didn't really have it much
shot last year because Anthony Davis was just as important
as Lebron, if not more. But this year it seemed
like Anthony Davis kind of like took a step back
and took his foot off the gas. I don't know
if that's to maybe pop up Lebron conspiracy theory. I
(27:21):
have no proof of it, but do you know what
I'm saying, Like, if he doesn't put up the big
knob time numbers and they all they need to do
is get to the playoffs. It's not about anything else.
So he can step back and give Lebron a chance
at getting another MVP rob real quickly. I want to
piggyback on something you just said, because you're a historian,
and I like that you invoke other sports here because
(27:42):
it's appropriate. I never once saw Hank Aaron say I'm
the greatest. I met Hank. I spent an afternoon with
Hank in nineteen ninety one at the National Sports Collectors
and Convention. I was part of the staff and elegant man.
I met Magic John, all these people you talk, Jim Brown,
I never heard any of these guys that were not
only transcendent in their sport, but transcendent in life. Truly
(28:04):
pillars of American society. Have the psychic need to be
revered and respected, and they're so desperate they're gonna remind
you how great they are. I never heard Hank Garon said.
Jim Brown said any of these guys, and Lebron wants
to be that guy. He wants to be transcendent above
and beyond the NBA. But the way he's going about it,
to me is transparent and frankly, it's not impressive to me.
(28:27):
He's gonna have the hardware, he's gonna have the numbers,
he's gonna have the tenure. You can't take away four
championships in three cities, But the way he conducts himself
leads me to believe he's very insecure about his status.
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
Couple at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us
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(00:21):
s R. You're listening to the best of the Odd
Couple with Chris Brussa and Ron Harker. Bernie, Let's let's
kick this off here with the Jacksonville Jaguars. And today
Trevor Lawrence had his pro day through and you know,
(00:41):
m Herban Meyers all over it, you know, covering around,
loving what he's seeing. Everybody's ranting, Raven. But there was
a report out there that said basically that Urban Meyer
would consider trading the number one pick Trevor Lawrence for
DeShawn Watson. And you know, Watson wants out, and it's
(01:05):
pretty a well documented. The Texans said that they're not
interested in trading him at all, Bernie, but you know
that could all change. I've always said I don't I
don't want anybody to stick around if they don't want
to be there. And I've courted pat Riley a million times.
Either you're in or you're out. It's real simple, and
it doesn't sound like DeShawn Watson is in. But I'm
(01:27):
gonna start with you, and what would you do? You know?
The NFL's change. There are no five year plans anymore.
At the old days. One of my old days, Aaron
Rodgers sat for three years behind Brett Fad before he
ever played and got a starting job. Those days are over.
Guys come out out of college and a dump jumped
(01:48):
in and they're gonna be starters right away almost and
they're expected to almost perform right away. If you were
Irban Meyer, what would you do, Bernie? Well, first of all,
he's got the draft appital, he's got you know, salary
cap room. Quarterback is the thinnest position in all of sports,
(02:08):
rob And I heard Bucky Brooks on with you guys
earlier today said you can't do it because they're not
ready to win. Now, I throw a flag. When you
have a transcendent quarterback like Shawn Watson is, we're talking
about a guy first two full years as a starter,
made the playoffs. He's a proven commodity. One hundred and
four touchdowns and thirty six interceptions. Here's a guy who
steps in. He's the face of the franchise. And it
(02:31):
wasn't that long ago, Rob, when Blake Bortles and Jacksonville
were just minutes away from the Super Bowl and they
had New England beat they couldn't close the deal. So
it's not like they're a million miles away like the
Lions are. Here's where I really would strongly suggest urban
Meyer make this deal as quick as he can, because
if you go back to nineteen ninety nine, Rob, only
(02:53):
one of the twenty eight quarterbacks selected in the top
five ever led their team to a Super Bowl victory
would be Eli Manning. Fourteen to to twenty eight have
a losing record and only two have won an MVP.
That's not a lot of success for what you call
a can't miss prospect. And we know that Trevor Lawrence
checks all the boxes. But the reality of it is,
(03:16):
although Trevor Lawrence checks every box, Deshaun Watson is the
glimpse into the crystal ball of what Trevor Lawrence could
look like if everything works out. So you Adwater Rents Boom,
You're in. You got your starting quarterback, for probably the
next five to ten years. I can't imagine why he
wouldn't make this deal. But that's just me. Now, I'm
with you. And here, Deshaun Watson's only twenty five burn
(03:39):
He's not thirty five. He's young. He's one of the
bright young quarterbacks in the league. Most people consider him
in the top five right when you're talking about Aaron
Rodgers and Tom Brady and Mahomes and and he's right
up there in that And he's right in that group
(04:00):
with everybody. So that's something that you have to look
at and say, if you make this, you already know
what the finished product is, right, unlike Trevor Lawrence. And yes,
the sky could be the limit. You could luck out
and get the next great thing. Maybe he's the next
Patrick Mahomes and wins a MVP is first year starting
(04:21):
as a quarterback, Bernie and a super Bowl is second
year started at a quarterback and gets back to the
Super Bowl is third year but doesn't win it. So
maybe he's that guy. But when you have a Deshaun Watson,
guys like that who are proven and who have numbers
Bernie and become available, it's just like the Brooklyn Nets.
(04:42):
Did they really need James Harden with the team they
had put up? Probably not. But when a guy like
that comes available, you jump on it. You want to
stockpile talent. That's why I think I would do that.
And if I'm the Texans, I know they said Bernie
that they don't want to trade Deshaun Watson, I'm sorry.
I just don't want anybody around who doesn't want to
(05:03):
be there. You know, just think about would you keep
your wife around if she really didn't want to want
to be there? Ask me, and they answer is no,
I'd pretty much been in that boat for thirty years.
I don't know. He rep probably asking a wrong guy. Look,
let's go back to DeShawn Watson, what I call proof
of performance. His first year, he only started six games
when he was three and three, and then he comes
(05:24):
back eleven and five playoff team, ten and six playoff team,
and obviously last year was a big dumpster fire. Although
he put up huge numbers, that kind of performance doesn't
grow on trees. Everybody's inamored with the number one pick.
If I was a GM scout head coach, I'd be
scared to death at the number one pick and I'm
gonna tell you why, because there's always plenty of star
(05:45):
power throughout the entire first round. So trade down, get
yourself a proven commodity. Guys like Patrick Mahomes, JJ Watt,
Aaron Donald, Lamar Jackson, DeShawn Watson himself, they were all
picked outside of the top ten. So who says you
need to have the number one and pick? Anyway, Yeah,
it looks good, it feels good. You think like there's
a new dawn of a day coming right when you
(06:07):
get the number one pick, and you don't want to
pass up on it and the potential. But I always
take And I remember when when I covered the Cincinnati
Reds and Luke Pinnella was the manager. He was always sweet,
Loue Man one of the best. We're gonna tell a
story just came about that story. No, but but he
he always said it's production over potential. He would take
(06:30):
production right over potential at any time. And guys who
produce are the guys you want on your football team
or baseball team or basketball team. And Watson is that guy.
I don't know if it's gonna happen. If I'm Trevor Lawrence,
I don't worry about it, you know what I mean, Like,
I'm just here to play football. Whatever team wants me, fine,
(06:52):
And if you're Watson, you know, I don't know is
Jacksonville really I know they got some cab room, Bernie,
I know they got some draft picks, but how close
are they? Is that really where he wants to go?
Jacksonville doesn't seem and he closed. The Texans in fact,
made the playoffs four the last six years. Rob. As
(07:12):
you will know, fortunes in the NFL can change virtually overnight.
The Lions, Yeah, thank you, good night, folks. Beck Cam
Newton to show Saturday. Cam Newton took over a moribund
team in Carolina. They were one in fifteen one year
and they were in the super Bowl the next year.
(07:32):
So fortunes can change, cultures can change. And you gotta
remember when a Deshaun Watson walks into the facility, this
is a guy who not only brings his physical ability
and his talent, his arm talent. And you know, there's
a reason that Dabbo Sweeney called him with Michael Jordan,
and I think there's some legitimacy to that. I don't
(07:54):
think that's hyperbole. He does things that other people can't
do when a play looks like it's dead. But be
that as it may. He can still play the position
and operate from the pocket and do all the things
you do. But he's also got huddle presence, and he's
got a character about him, to the best of my knowledge,
that elevates people around him. So you need people like
that that if you're going to you know, if the
(08:15):
franchise is going to take a step to the next level.
Let Us make no mistake, urban Meyer is going to
be under a fair amount of pressure to win relatively quickly.
He might get a one year hall pass, but this
isn't going to be one of those deals where they're
gonna look up four or five years from now. You
don't Smatt Millen and Marty morning Wagon and Rod Marinelli. No,
those days are long gone. They're paying urban Meyer twelve
million dollars a year not to be an also ran.
(08:37):
So I think you make a tremendous splash. It's a
good start over for DeShawn Watson. You do what you
have to do. Again, I'm not disagreeing philosophically with what
Bucky Brooks said, but when you have a transcendent quarterback
like DeShawn Watson, who's already shown proof of performance. I
think you have to take advantage of that. Fox Sports
(08:58):
Radio has the best sports talk line up in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Foxsportsradio dot com and
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Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
with Chris Brussard and Rob Parker weekdays at seven pm
Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the
(09:18):
iHeartRadio app. And you know What's not dead The story
about Irvin Myers hire of a strength and conditioning coach
in Chris Doyle, who was accused of racism at Iowa
in an independent investigation. Players Black players on the team
(09:42):
said that Doyle said stuff to them, treated them differently.
It was a mess there. He wound up resigning and
taking one point one million dollars with them. Just a
really weird hire during these times. And you know, there's
been a lot of criticism him urban Meyer in the
(10:02):
national media that why would he make this controversial hire
so soon after one with down in Iowa and the
players and bring him into a locker room where seventy
percent of the players are black. It's just really, really weird.
And here's Urban Meyer defending the higher I have known
(10:24):
chrispher close to twenty years. Our relationship goes back to
when I was at Utah and he was the number
one strength coach and really he was doing sports performance
before sports performance became a high priority. And I've known him,
I've studied him. I vetted him thoroughly along with our
general manager and owner. Feel great about the hire, about
his expertise at that at that position, So we vetted
(10:46):
him thoroughly. Your confident there's not going to be any issues. Yeah,
you're very competent. What Urban Meyers? Shame on you. This
is classic good old boy network. He's a friend of mine.
(11:06):
I'm gonna turn my head, turn my cheek, turn the
other cheek. I don't know what they're talking about. I
know him. Nothing that went on. If everything was hunky dory,
why was he pushed out of Iowa? Come on, don't
buy into that. He was in Iowa for twenty years.
Why was he pushed out? Why was he made to
(11:28):
resign and move on? Because an independent investigation, this wasn't
charges by one person or hearsay. They did a total investigation,
and multiple players called him out quotes like if you
don't play well or what, I will send you back
to the ghetto. Really, Bernie Fratto, really is that where
(11:52):
we are Antremima and Uncle better out of jobs in
this country? What is this? Rob This is a very
highly charged situation, obviously, and as I said earlier with
the Randy Mueller, the risk reward aspect of this, considering
the fact that Urban Myers never coached in the NFL.
This is his first job. He hasn't played a practice
(12:15):
or hadn't had a practice or played a game. And
to call this kind of attention that is really unneeded.
You have to wonder what the thinking was. I want
to give me a little bit of latitude here because
I heard you and Chris earlier today. You think Urban
Meyer is just going to be a Nick Saban in
the end. We don't know that. I think he could
be more like a Jimmy Johnson. He did have success
(12:35):
in bowling Green Utah, Florida. Ohiuse Staton by the way,
Christyle worked for him at Utah. ID like to know
where there any of those incidents at Utah twenty years
ago and they're undefeated. Where I think having there asking
the wrong questions and maybe even having the wrong conversation.
Why was this enabled at Iowa for twenty years? Why
did that happen? And it happened while he was working
for somebody else. I'd also like to know, I'm not
(12:58):
a lot happen, so I'm gonna say his Well, we
weren't there, so you can speculating. Yeah, I'm not telling
you Got well, but but but you're talking about college
kids afraid of their scholarships, being accepting of things going around,
because who are they to stand up and say something
that's right? And Tom has changed, Bernie Got People aren't
aren't like that anymore. So people are willing to stand
(13:20):
out there. We saw at Missouri the football players didn't
like the racism going on on campus. You remember what
they did? They shut down the football program. That would
have happened twenty years ago. It was a different mindset.
I don't care what year it is. Here, never should
have been that kind of language. I need to know
why it was enabled Iowa. And I'd also liked to know.
I'm not a fan of Trent Balky by the way,
I know always bought his dealings with the forty nine ers.
(13:42):
But I digress. Here's where I'm going with that. What
did Trent and Bulky here to allow him to sign
off that? What did Shot Khan, who's a NOPs guy
who gives his people autonomy to run their businesses. What
did they were? What were the factors they considered in
vetting this and saying it was okay, What do we
know and why here when they put Chris Doyle out
(14:03):
front and center to talk about this and act for
contrition and we should hear for some players, I don't know,
we need to know more. On the face of it,
based on the evidence you're presenting, pretty hard to argue
with it. I just feel like we don't know all
the answers to all the questions. That's all I'm saying.
I know enough that he had to leave a job
and got a settlement and they did an independent investigation. Bernie,
(14:27):
I'm gonna buy into that. It wasn't like some but
you campus one thing and go ahead. You also said
you're in the second chances. Yes, I don't know, not
this soon, Not this soon. You're gonna give me a
date on the calendar. My third one doesn't feel right.
I just does well, the guys signing his paycheck said
it felt right, So why don't you ask them what
(14:48):
they were thinking? No, tell you what they would think,
and they would thinking that, yes, they got a brand
new shiny toy in Urban Meyer, and this is what
he wants. So we got a give him what he
wants because we just signed a new, five year, gazillion
dollar deal. So we can't say no to the shiny
new toy and then get him all upset. So they
(15:09):
signed off on it, hoping, wishing that there would be
no pushback. It happens all the time because Urban wanted it.
They didn't. They didn't want to stand up to him,
Bernie and say, but I know you just got here.
I know what it was, Rob, Rob shot Kann is
an international businessman. You think Urban Meyer's gonna intimidate him.
It ain't about intimidate him to what he's gonna get
(15:33):
his way. You want to single game in the NFL.
Yet you promised him control and he could hire his staff. Yes,
that's probably what was in the language, Bernie. That's what
you give up when you're the Jacksonville Jaguars and you
have a bad organization and you play two games in
Europe every year and one on Mars because you can't
(15:53):
sell tickets. You give up power to Laura. Guy like that,
and that's why they went. Most organizations would would have
put up the stop side and said, no way, no, how.
Why would you bring in the controversial figure before you
even get started. Why would you alienate a locker room
with seventy percent black players or room? You know that yet?
(16:16):
For you know that for a fact that the locker
rooms alienated? Do you know that? Look, let me take
it back from the top. Good, take it from the top.
Believe that. Let me take it from the top. I
probably would not have hired him. However, he didn't work
for me at Utah twenty years ago. I don't know
the relationship. I am not dismissing what he did at Iowa.
I'm wondering why it was enabled at Iowa. Now it
(16:38):
comes to Jacksonville, starting over, I think the risk reward
is too severe. Look at top people are reacting. But
to your question, why don't they hire him? They think
he'll produce results. Strength coaches are incredibly important in this
day and age, and so somewhere along the line, he's
believing the cost does not exceed the benefit. Now, I
don't know that, and you don't know that, and I
(16:59):
think obviously your personal feelings on this matter are are
very well documented and understood. But the full story hasn't
been told yet. Robin hasn't that. I'm not buying why
Because they did an investigation and he's out of a job,
rob there had to be some whole idea, Wait, hold on,
(17:20):
this whole idea that we don't know the full story.
Why why don't we know the full story? I believe
the kids. Why did the kids come up? I believe
them in Iowa? Hold on, we're you know, we're having
two different conversations. I believe what he was allegedly accused
of doing in Iowa he most likely did. Were there smoke,
there's fire? Why was it enabled there? And urban Meyer
(17:41):
wasn't working there? That's my point. Happen at Did this
happen he got fired? Did this happen at Utah? When
he was there under urban Meyer? Interview those kids? No,
we don't have to do that, Bernie. Just because you
didn't do it or the kids didn't say anything back then,
doesn't mean it happen. That Canaan was out at one time.
(18:02):
You have to do it your whole life or kill
nine people. OK, one person is enough. He offended. He
hasn't even been somebody calling Bernie. He hasn't give me
a strong man argument. He hasn't even been man enough
to admit and acknowledge that he's done something wrong. That's
the problem. That's why he's not ready to get another job.
You have to first fess up, own it and say
(18:25):
you made a mistake and you're gonna learn from it.
When we hear that, then you could put him in
in the idea of him getting another job. He's refused
to do it. That's why he doesn't deserve another chance. Now,
all right, I'm not looking to play god here. I
would just say this. I agree with you that I
don't know why he didn't get out front and center
and get you know, on top of this with some
(18:46):
semblance of order. I'm not so sure what the decision
was made, or why the decision was made by urban Meyer.
He had to have this guy, but the owner signed
off on it. They're the one that writes the checks.
I think you've got to let this play out now.
I like to know that this happened at Utah well,
it was under urban Meyer's watch, because if it happened
there too, look Bobby Knight. It took many years later
(19:07):
until Bobby Knight was outed. I mean all kinds, Plain
a minute, Bernie, what happened at Ohio State where he
kept an come at me with the strawman argument, we
could do no it? Ohire, Tell me if you think
you know what happened with the text to his wife. No,
but what I'm talking about scrambling. Yes, because he's in
(19:27):
the neighbler, he protects his friends. That's his history. We
have to go by that. That's why this is bad.
If you told me he hired this guy, Chris Doyle
and he didn't know Chris Doyle from Adam, maybe I
would buy into it. But this is his friend, just
like the assistant coach at Ohio State who his wife
(19:47):
knew was abusing his his his wife, but he claims
he had no idea. I'm not buying it. His track
record isn't good enough for me to take him at
face value. He vetted Chris Doyle. No, that's his buddy.
He's trying to hook up. And that's why it's bad.
That's why the black players on this team should not
allow this. That's why other people are speaking out on this.
(20:11):
This is not just Rob Parker and Chris Boussard. These
are former players all, plenty of guys, plenty of guys
I don't want to name. I don't want to hear
from me. As the end, you don't want to validate
any other point of view. So give me the two
names you heard. Who just told you? Marcus Spears, Uh,
(20:33):
Jay Williams um all those guys. I don't have to
Williams personalities, but they did speak out about it. And
my point is this guy does not deserve an opportunity
until at first he acknowledges that he's offended other people.
Next day holds a press conference and ask for forgiveness,
(20:54):
and will you let him? Will you? Will you? Will
you cut him a breakdown. I don't believe he should
be hired right now. You can answer the question, No,
he's already been hired. No, there's nothing he can do.
You don't believe you're not offended the guy. I'm I'm
making an objective argument, you're making a subjective argument. There's
(21:16):
a difference. I'm telling you that there's no way in
this climate, in this country, that this guy should be
put right back in a situation that he just came
out of in dealing with black players, especially if he
is not willing to acknowledge that he offended you. If
I offended you, Bernie, and you say, Rob, what you
(21:37):
just said to me offended me. If I didn't mean
to offend you, you know what I would do. I
would apologize to you. And that's not what he did.
That's why he doesn't deserve another chance. Fox Sports Radio
has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch
all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com
and within the iHeartRadio app search f SR to listen live.
(21:58):
All right, let's switch to the NBA and Lebron James
and the Lakers. They are kicking off a game on
ESPN tonight ten pm Eastern, seven pm Pacific, the Lakers
twenty and six against the Grizzlies ten and ten. But
let's let's focus in on Lebron James and right now, Bernie.
If the season were to end, he'd have a good
(22:20):
shot at winning the MVP. That's how well he's playing,
and he's been playing. He's coming off of playing three
straight games of forty minutes or more. Here's a guy
in his eighteenth season. You would think his foot would
be off the gas. He would be trying to figure
out how to you know, conserve some energy for another
(22:43):
championship run that he's trying to get the six championships.
But it does feel like Lebron wants to pile up
the stats. He wants to do as much as he can.
He knows he's behind Michael Jordan, even though he proclaimed
that he he was the goat after they came back
from three to one over Golden State. That's when he
proclaimed he was the goat. But as we saw Bernie,
(23:06):
when the uh last dat you the documentary came out, Uh,
you know, they did a poll and this was not
these were not these were millennials, and Jordan swept all
of the polls about being the greatest player, So that
that kind of pushed Lebron to the back. But it
looks like he wants to get Kareem Abdul Jabbar's most
(23:27):
points and some other records and pile up some MVPs.
Where are you on him playing these heavy minutes for
stats instead of trying to be you know, if you're
a Laker fan, wouldn't you want him to be uh
not play these uh these many minutes and having a
chance to repeat and win another championship. I think Lebron's
(23:47):
got another agenda. He's got an ulterior motive. Greatness needs
no self promotion. And when he refers to himself as
the goat and rob, I just want to digress for
just a second. I always refused to participate in the
Jordan versus Lebron goat argument because neither side's ever gonna submit.
But you and I both saw Jordan courtside, and if
(24:07):
you've seen both courtside, I don't know anybody who've seen
both courtside. They didn't vote for Jordan. All I've ever
said is that Jordan. If my life was on the
line and I needed one guy to win me a game,
it would beat Jordan. It wouldn't be Lebron, it would
be Jordan. Look, Lebron wants to win an MVP. He's
on a mission to win an MVP. Why because what
does he say when they win the championship in the
COVID era and I didn't respect there should be no
(24:29):
asterisk it. It was just as difficult to win. He
they didn't have to travel on all those things. But
everybody was in the same boat. So give the man
his due. But he gets up there because I want
my damn respect. Really, that's what's on your mind. You
just brought a championship to Los Angeles. You can now
join the Wilt era, that your Barira, the Magic era,
Kareem era, the Kolbe and Shack era. And now you've
(24:51):
joined that era and you can actually say your jersey's
on the wall. You've won a championship and all you
want to say is I want my damn respect. Lebron
in me of a guy that I'll gave you the
shirt office back, then call six press conferences to remind
you he did it. He's got on a gender rob
He's playing forty minutes to night. You're darn right. He
watched that Jordan documentary back in March. We all did.
(25:12):
He said, oh my god, Isaiah was playing forty minutes
a night. Magic is playing forty minutes a night. Jordan's
playing forty minutes a night. Those guys are badasses, man.
They showed up every night. They didn't play around, and
when Jordan went into the lane, he got smacked around
like a You know, a qpie doll, different ballgame. He's
not saying I've got to do that if I'm gonna
(25:32):
be taken more seriously, what do I have to do
in my life to bridge that gap between or I
think I am and where I think I'm perceived versus
where I want to be. I will tell you, Rob,
you courver the NBA for a lot of years when
Jordan Bird, Magic Isaiah they took the floor, you actually
feared those guys. I don't think people fear Lebron and
the way he wants to be feared. Yeah, And I
(25:55):
think you're right. The idea that you have to ask
people or try to vince people, Bernie that you're that guy,
you shouldn't have to do that. That's just it's just
not necessary. That's why I say all the time anytime
you're trying to convince me that somebody belongs in the
Hall of Fame and all that, if I said to
you Willie Mays, Hank Aaron Ken Griffey Jr. What debate
(26:17):
is there is there a debate. There's no debate. So
when you have to debate me about somebody and Lebron
is still in this situation, it's just interesting to me
that in you're eighteen, you know, he's still going after
the numbers. He's still you know, trying to get that MVP.
And then even Anthony Davis this year seemed like like
(26:40):
out of the gate, he just was took his foot
off the gas, like like I thought, Bernie he would
have a chance to be MVP this year. Remember he
led the Lakers in every category last year except for
assist at Lebron and we know when there are two
great players on the same team, Bernie oftentimes that excess
(27:00):
out one guy, right, because they split the vote on
a team. That's why Lebron didn't really have it much
shot last year because Anthony Davis was just as important
as Lebron, if not more. But this year it seemed
like Anthony Davis kind of like took a step back
and took his foot off the gas. I don't know
if that's to maybe pop up Lebron conspiracy theory. I
(27:21):
have no proof of it, but do you know what
I'm saying, Like, if he doesn't put up the big
knob time numbers and they all they need to do
is get to the playoffs. It's not about anything else.
So he can step back and give Lebron a chance
at getting another MVP rob real quickly. I want to
piggyback on something you just said, because you're a historian,
and I like that you invoke other sports here because
(27:42):
it's appropriate. I never once saw Hank Aaron say I'm
the greatest. I met Hank. I spent an afternoon with
Hank in nineteen ninety one at the National Sports Collectors
and Convention. I was part of the staff and elegant man.
I met Magic John, all these people you talk, Jim Brown,
I never heard any of these guys that were not
only transcendent in their sport, but transcendent in life. Truly
(28:04):
pillars of American society. Have the psychic need to be
revered and respected, and they're so desperate they're gonna remind
you how great they are. I never heard Hank Garon said.
Jim Brown said any of these guys, and Lebron wants
to be that guy. He wants to be transcendent above
and beyond the NBA. But the way he's going about it,
to me is transparent and frankly, it's not impressive to me.
(28:27):
He's gonna have the hardware, he's gonna have the numbers,
he's gonna have the tenure. You can't take away four
championships in three cities, But the way he conducts himself
leads me to believe he's very insecure about his status.
Hosts And Creators
kelvin washington
Rob Parker
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