March 29, 2023 • 41 mins
Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental health podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer. On today's episode, Olympic wrestling legend Helen Maroulis joins Jay for a chat unlike any other. From making history at the 2016 Olympic Games becoming America’s first female gold medalist to her career-ending injury and gripping battle with self-doubt and PTSD that forced her into retirement to her astonishing pursuit of a second chance at greatness at the Tokyo Olympics. Helen’s story is truly incredible!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glazer. Welcome back to Unbreakable, a mental
health podcast with Jay Glazer. I am Jay Glazer. The
irony of that. And look, we've had different fighters on
(00:23):
different combat sport athletes, but we've yet to have on
the most decorated female American wrestler of all time until today.
That changes. Hell, am Auless, welcome to I'm Breakable. I
appreciate you jumping on with me. Hi, thank you so much, Jay,
thank you for having me. This is an honor. Oh absolutely,
Look from you know, obviously I have a wrestling background.
I haven't you know, I'm not the most decorated wrestler
(00:44):
of all time of anything. But you know, I understand
appreciate that wrestler grind, that wrestler mentality. But you have
quite a story, because when I have these podcasts, it's
not just for people who are struggling. And you know,
we'll come on with there and I I have, you know,
come forward and I've written a book about my depression,
my anxiety, my add my bipolar to get us all
to start talking about it, so we don't think we're
(01:05):
in the minority anymore. And all my mental health issues
drove me to where I am, right, But this is
also a mental health podcast as far as you know,
getting between yours of what makes us great, what makes
us overcome. So I want to dive in for people
who aren't familiar with your story. You're the first female
American women to ever get a gold medal in the Olympics. Correct, Okay,
(01:26):
giving it some more caracults here, okay, um, I am
a three time world champion. Yeah, the first female to
when an American females when Olympic gold medal in women's wrestling.
I'm so sorry. Yeah, most people we stuck at given
ourselves praise, I understand it. How many how many? How
(01:46):
many times have you medal in the Olympics? So oh yeah, tway,
so that's right. Okay, yeah, okay, we need to leave
these things. Oh yeah, by the way, that's right. But
so you medal, and we're going to get into your
your medal before and after your head injuries. Yes, yes
(02:08):
I did, so we'll get into that a little bit.
So take us, take meto this journey. Tell us how
you got into wrestling first, and then I want you
to dive into what makes you different than everybody else
because you are one of one. Being the first female
Americans ever get a gold medal, that makes you one
of one. So first let's get into how you got
into it. Yeah, so I started wrestling when I was
seven years old. Before that, you know, I did kind
(02:30):
of a lot of typical girl sports like gymnastics, dancing,
ballet diving, and every sport that I had joined, I
would shut down and cry. I was really shy. I
didn't like being watched or looked at, so the instructors
would ask my mom not to bring me back. And
then my older and younger brother had joined wrestling and
there weren't enough kids on the team, so my mom
didn't want to make my little brother have to wait
(02:51):
another year, so she just told me to jump in
there and be my brother's dummy. And after about two
weeks of hard work, I went to my parents and
I said, this isn't fair. I'm doing all the hard
work with the boys are doing, but they get to
compete and I don't. And so my dad, knowing my
track record with sports, was like, okay, I'll let you
wrestle one match and if you win that match, you
can keep wrestling. And they thought that I would never
step on the mat, and I did. It was the
(03:12):
only match I have won all year. I was one
and thirty my first year, but I got to keep Yeah,
one and thirty, and I fell in love with it instantly.
Maybe it's because people didn't want me there, didn't pay attention.
I don't know. Maybe that gave me the space. But
I think wrestling I also have an ADHD brain, and
I think wrestling is one of those things that can
like always excite and never disappoint the ADHD brain because
(03:35):
there's just endless possibilities. When did you start changing over
and to whip And everyone's ask Well, the first year
I was one and thirty and I think the second
year I was probably more like thirty and one ish,
like I don't know the exact record. And that was
really interesting because I had a really great coach my
first season. I mean right away he was welcoming up
girls being on the team. I was the only girl,
(03:56):
and my experience with wrestling at the time was like, oh,
everyone supports you and this is great. And then the
next year is when once I started getting good. Is
when parents would start calling names or you know, people
would say stuff, and then all of a sudden, you're
not just like the cute little girl that's trying and
losing anymore. Now all of a sudden, you're like, get
that Dike off the mat, or hurt that girl, make
(04:18):
sure she doesn't come back, make sure she quits. So, yeah,
that's my career kind of started. Why would stay career
back then? But like support, it just really start to change.
You're eighty eight years old and parents are calling your dike. Yes,
I mean that was like not at eight, that was
probably at like twelve, between like eleven twelve thirteen. But
it was like I just remember it wasn't cool to win,
(04:41):
and like, as a seven year old, I didn't really
understand it. So but I think the really nice thing
is that when you're seven and you don't understand things,
you can approach things with a childlike mine. So I
just remember I would go into when I went to
my first junior league team, my mom took me to
the you know program, and the coach put me with
the three best guys and told them to rotate in
(05:03):
on me until I quit or until they hurt me,
and I just remember thinking my mom knew what was
going on and she was pissed. So she eventually ended
up taking me to a different club. But at the time,
I remember thinking, wow, like this new junior league is
really tough. Like if I want to be able to
beat these guys, I really got to get better because
I'm getting my ass whooked. Like I just didn't understand
like some at times, what was going on. So I
(05:25):
think that kind of helped me a little bit. Why
did you really start to realize you were special? So
here's what's really interesting. When I was seven and I
did it for the first year, you know how like
when you're young, it's not year round. So after that
season ended whatever, let's say March, my parents came to
me and they said, hey, we can see that you
really like this, that you're getting attached to the sport.
(05:46):
But it's not an Olympic sport for women's wrestling, And
this is weird. What are you going to do? Grow up?
Wrestling boys in high school? Like, there's no scholarship, there's
no opportunity for you, so you have to quit wrestling.
And so you know, as a kid, you don't have
a say, so it's like okay, and then that's summer.
Like literally two months later, they announced that women's wrestling
was going to be added to the two thousand and
four Olympics. So my parents came back to me before
(06:07):
the start of the next season and they said, hey,
like women's wrestling is being added to the Olympics. There's
probably going to be all these opportunities for you by
the time you know, you grow up, So if you
want to do this, you can do this. And at
that moment, like right when I turned eight, I just said, Okay,
the one thing that I love to do got taken
away from me because there wasn't this Olympic opportunity. And
now that there is, I have to go for that.
So at eight years old, I'm like, I want to
(06:28):
go to the Olympics. Well you're already thinking about the Olympics. Yeah,
But it's so easy to say when you're eight, yeah,
because you can dream. Let's get no, but you're you're
not asking my question. My question was when did you
realize you were different? Like you ain't like everybody else
hell them, When did you realize, Okay, I'm the baddest
motherfucker in this wrestling room right now. You know, it's funny.
Not everyone is given everything. And I feel like maybe
(06:52):
the gift or the talent that I've been given with
wrestling has also come with this um maybe inability to
see myself in that. And I think that's a good
thing because it drives me to always think that there's better.
But I've I've struggled with confidence my whole life and career,
so I don't think I've ever thought like, oh, I'm
just special and better and it's actually the thing that
I have to work on. Is so. But there had
(07:14):
a bet time when you started going to wrestling tour,
i'ment and everybody they were looking and going, oh shit,
I don't want to face her. I remember people telling
me that I'm I'm super talented and I'm really good,
and even I mean even now, I'll have coaches like
tell me, I wish you could see yourself the way
we see you. So that's really encouraging, but it's hard
for me to just like do that. I don't know why.
I remember in two th eleven, I left practice one
(07:35):
day and I was always really hard on myself, and
I just remember hearing this voice like this could be you?
Why not you? And it was actually in that moment
in twenty eleven that I remember thinking that I believe
that I'm actually good and talented enough that I can
win the Olympics, and that you should always give our
best and my best is going to be gold. So
if I don't do that, then I didn't actually do
(07:55):
my best. And that I think, like right around twenty
eleven was when I really felt that were you born
with the wrestlers grind or did you pick that up?
Or you know, there's for people out there who haven't wrestled,
there's a totally different, totally different work ethic from wrestlers
and everybody else. It's just relentless, relentless work ethic, and
it's the hours you put in when no one's watching
that makes you great. It's a lonely sport that way. Yeah,
(08:17):
that is so true. I don't know if I was
born with it. I think also, ADHD that helps a lot.
And you know, and I also think, just love love
what you do. Like I hate lifting weights, I hate running.
It is like nails on the chalkboard. I do it
for the sole purpose of how much I love wrestling
and how it's going to benefit my wrestling. So I
think when when people find the sport that they love,
(08:39):
they're more motivated and it's easier for them to put
those hours in. Again your level. I've had guys like
Chails on him, right, famous wrestlers, just champs, you've said,
Helen Merlis is the reason I started watching female wrestling,
like tearing you like Laila League for boxing right, women's boxing. Right.
So there is so for somebody like you as a
hard time feeling that I want you to know that
(08:59):
that's yeah, no, I it's it's not. Um well, I
would say, like on the flip side my mentality when
I'm because this is something that I think being starting
in a male dominant sport helped develop in me. And
it's really helped is that I had to hold myself
to a higher standard. When you're a little girl and
you're in the sport and you know the coach is
(09:19):
showing the moves, I knew that if I didn't pick
this move up quickly, it was going to be well,
this is why you don't belong here. Whereas like little
Johnny in the corner, he can take a year to
learn the move and the coach will still work with him.
And and that's not to say every coach, but I
just had experiences like that where you know, people want
to parade a female wrestler how tough she is, and
it's like, Okay, that's cool, but we're not doing that
for the boys over here. You're actually holding them to
(09:41):
a high standard. They have to get the technique down,
they have to have good positions. So I, from a
young age just kind of intuitively felt like whatever people celebrate,
I need to make sure that I'm always holding myself
to this higher standard. And the one thing for me
was that technique has no gender. So I might not
be the fastest amongst the boys, I might not be
the strongest, but like you know, damned if I don't
have the best technique. And that was something I really
(10:03):
really really pride myself on because I knew that this fight,
it's like you're gonna spend your whole life trying to
fight to proof by women belong in sports, and guys
are like, well, they're not as fast as the men.
It's like that's yeah, true, but like you can't tell
me that I don't know, like good technique in good
wrestling position your footwork is ridiculous. Your footwork is absolutely
next level, just incredible. So now take us through. So
(10:24):
you know Helen's story again, we're gonna you're gonna take
us to the gold medal and then Helen went through
really hard times after that. She's gonna explain that and
take us through and how she came through that dark
tunnel as well. But take us through that Olympic you're
you're facing I mean, you know, absolute legend and yeah, right,
and are you okay? First, when you make the Olympics,
(10:45):
is it just like okay, this was gonna do? Where
is it? And I've talked to Michael Phelps about this.
We also like take us into those of us who
I've been there, the experience of making the Olympics, being
out there what like out of body and inner body experience. Yeah,
so the whole process. It's just that was just such
a wild year. I don't even know five words for it.
But and it's every sport is different in their qualification.
(11:05):
So I actually had a really hard time making weight
for fifty three because it was I was in the
middleweight class and I had to go down to the
Olympic weight and when I had made the Olympic team
for the US. At the US Trials, the weight still
wasn't qualified for the Olympics, so I had to fly
ten days later to Mongolia make weight again, and I
had to make it to the finals of this tournament
to qualify the weight. So I think you were cutting
(11:28):
down one fifty three one sixteen. I'm like, well, what, yeah, yeah,
I don't remember that. Okay, yeah, I think the quila
what are you what are you coming from? Like one
forty five? Yeah, I was. I was like on a big,
bulking program and I had doctor scientists, like I was working,
(11:48):
you know, with amazing people. It just it was I
think that was just kind of that battle to overcome,
and honestly, I think it helped me because by the
time I got to the Olympics, it was like this
was a twenty four seven, you know, three hundred and
six to five day job, Like I'm going to get
after this, just because it took so much. And then
wrestling at the Olympics was just the most surreal experience ever.
(12:10):
I just remember feeling like I was on cloud nine
and I think my you know, my kind of mindset
was just I don't want to have regret. I failed
to make the Olympic team in twenty and twelve, even
though I was favored to make the team and I
had qualified the weight and I just I got in
my head and I choked and I underperformed. And it's like,
losing is not the worst feeling. Underperforming is the worst feeling.
(12:32):
If you do your best but you lose, it's like, man,
that person like they earned it, they got it. But
when you get in your own way, it's just that
I think it's the pain that you hold on to.
And so for four years is like, you know, I
work in the NFL. You have the next year you
come back, but having to hold on to that for
four years brutal. Yeah. Yeah, And you see how it
(12:54):
can affect people psychologically sometimes too, because it's like you
can't lie to yourself that this is a once every
four years thing. So as much as you're trying to
relax or whatever, there's just a level of anxiety that
that you see on people's faces at the games. And
so I actually think growing up with anxiety and having
to battle through that year in and year out actually
helped me a lot, because to me, the Olympics it's
(13:15):
like well, I treat everything like the Olympics because I'm
always just freaking out about things. So this is actually
my norm, like your superpower. Yeah yeah, yeah, so it
really worked out, worked out for me. I want people
to really hear that those with anxiety again, there is
an advantage because it makes you good in chaos. It
makes you, you know, be able to calm where other
people will freak out. It can be used as your superpower.
(13:38):
That's it. The title of my book is how I
use my depression anxiety to motivate me. And so I
love that you say that I had to make it
my superpower. Yes, yeah, yeah, and then you totally you
get it, you live it. I think, Yeah, it's almost
like once you integrate that within yourself. And and the
other lesson I learned too is that you win with
your strengths and your weaknesses. So in twenty twelve, you know,
(13:59):
I felt like, well, when I get rid of my anxiety,
or when I believe in myself and when I'm perfect,
then I'm worthy of being an Olympian. And I think
coming through to twenty sixteen, I realized you're never going
to be perfect. You're gonna win with your strengths and
your weaknesses, and so I'm bringing all of me to
the mat and that's enough. So I don't need to
be the strongest. I need just need to be strong enough.
I don't need to be the fastest. I just need
(14:21):
to be fast enough. Sore off yourself. Yeah, So, as
you're going through here and you come to the gold
medal match against Yoshida, take me in your mindset because
you're you're facing a legend, right, and I think thirteen
time world chap and yeah, I may not be doing
her justice, but she is basically the baddest motherfucker on
the planet at that point. Yeah, So Yoshida is literally
(14:44):
a legend in women's wrestling. One reporter I heard them
describe this. They said, some people call her the Michael
Jordan of women's wrestling. She's not the Michael Jordan. She
just is women's wrestling. She won the first ever Olympics
and she's won every Olympics and world championship since. So
this woman never never lost. And I had wrestled her
twice before, you know, throughout the years. I got pinned quickly,
(15:06):
so just totally you know, annihilated by this woman. And
then in twenty fourteen, I got to go to a camp,
a two day camp that Japan never opens their doors.
They allowed three Americans in and we got to go
train and every day I was just asking her to go.
Still got my butt whooped, but I got to see
how she was as a person on and off the mat,
and I realized, instead of looking like for weaknesses in
(15:27):
this person, I just need to like lift myself up
and make myself better, because she's truly a champion on
and off the mat. So she honestly didn't become She
wasn't an enemy or arrival. She really was like my
role model and my hero. And I remember thinking the
Swedish girl I had in the semis, I had lost
to her in the Worlds before, you know, leading into
the finals, and I felt like she's in my way
(15:49):
of me getting to wrestle my hero, and my hero
is going to retire after this Olympics and I'll never
get this chance again. And what an honor it is
to get to be on the mat with this woman,
like win or lose. I want this one more time.
So it made to the finals and it felt like
a dream come true. And then it warm up. Actually
before the finals. I remembered, you know, jogging around and
being like, don't look over at her. Don't look over
because if you look over at her, you're gonna lose
(16:11):
all your confidence. And I look over and I see
her hit this beautiful BLUs double and I remember, just
you know, Helen, like, silver medal is not that bad
so far, Like I literally I made piece of it.
I'm like yeah, like she is the best. And then
it was like, no, remember your mount like Chris is
in me, I'm enough, and I'm like, yeah, I just
I just want to give everything I have in this match.
So walking out of the tunnel, I cannot put into words.
(16:34):
There's some it was electrifying, Like it just felt like
this larger than life moment, this amazing thing that you're
going to experience. I just took it all in. But
I was dialed in and for six minutes time stood
still like I would have wrestled forever. I would have
just never stopped. That's how I felt. It was like,
I love this moment so much. And you know, obviously
(16:56):
every athlete will describe it being in the zone and
when the buzzer ring and I, you know, realized that
I had one. I just started crying because I feel
like these blinders came off and I just thought about
like ten year old Helen and thirteen year old Helen
and sixteen year old Helen, and this shy little girl,
this insecure girl, Like this girl has no business being
here on this mat doing this thing today. But here
(17:17):
was I got. I got to do it, and you know,
it was a dream come true. What was the score
of match? Four to one? Yeah, you dominate her. No,
I was actually losing one zero going into the second period,
and then everything, you know, came together. So she's one
of those people you can never count out like ten
seconds left. I've seen her win crazy matches. She's just
(17:38):
that great. So what do you hit to go up? Honestly,
nothing that I've ever drilled in my life. Really. Yeah,
it was a really strategical match. So they put me
on the shot clock first, and I knew everyone shoots
when they get on the shot clock, and I knew
that I needed to give up this point in order
to win the match, Like who's the battle to win
the war? Because I'm like, if I take a bad
(17:59):
shot and she apitalizes off this, I'm going to give
up more points, so I gave her the point second period.
She and I both knew that if she doesn't hit something,
they're gonna put her on the clock. And whoever scores
last week, So I would have won once one and
I went for some weird head pinch and she went
for a headlock throw off of it, and I just
slipped it and got two. And then I think the
last minute she was looking to you know, take shots
(18:20):
and open things up, and she tried to slide by
and I just like kind of knee picked it out
of bounds. So it's just wild, Like if all the
moves that I spent hours and hours and hours of
drilling like those weren't them. Wow, merntality got you and
your spirit like got you into that position when you
got up, did you say to yourself like, holy shit,
I'm winning this, Like if you were able to like
in a moment like holy shit, this is happening. I
(18:44):
know I really was in like shock, I'm really in
shock and in disbelief, like and I was just so grateful.
I was just so grateful. And I remember, you know,
going into the Limbic Games and you're really stressed out,
and someone connected me with a two time Olympic gold
medalist in rowing, and you know, she so kindly did
a phone call with me going into the Olympic Games
and she's like, hey, kid, like listen, she goes. You think,
(19:07):
you know, you're on this rainbow, and you think that
there's this pot of gold at the end of the
tunnel or at the end of it, but there's not
like this is it like this journey the rainbow, Like
this is the gift. The journey is the rainbow. Yes, yeah,
And I was like, yeah, easy for you to say,
you have a gold medal, like, you know, but by
the time I competed at the Olympics, it really felt
like that it was like win or lose. What this
(19:27):
sport has asked of me and what I've been able
to ask of myself and what I've been able to
learn of myself through that process is just it's just
makes you feel so alive and amazing and it was
just such a beautiful experience. And you know, the gold
medal is just icing on the cake, but it's not everything.
I love that you're able to celebrate yourself because so
many of my friends who've won aren't. I got Michael
(19:49):
Phelps on this Joe and he look at his medals.
I'm like, dude, you're one of one. Like He's like, yeah,
I don't want that to define me. I'm like, no, no, no,
that defines the work ethic that you had, Like start
learning how to love yourself for that work ethic that
separates you from everybody else. He's like, oh, yeah, maybe
I could do that, but I've had a lot of
you know, my partner on Breakable, Lindsay Berger, was a
two time silver medalist captain of the women's folleyball team.
(20:11):
She never leads with it, and I'm always telling people
like she led two teams to you know, two celeb medals,
that they're culs or whatever. They were right, And I
love that you're able to because y'all deserve it the
work you put in to be able to celebrate yourself,
and so many of our champions aren't able to do that.
I try and work on that with them. Yes, I
love that you're able to. That is a gift. Thanks. Yeah,
(20:32):
I just I don't. I'm not celebrating the medal. I'm
just celebrating the lessons that you Yeah, you deserve it.
I know. So sometimes super when they find out or
after the Olympics, they're like, why don't you wear it everywhere?
You should be always having around your neck, Like if
we actually did that, you like, come on, yeah, crushed. Yeah,
(20:52):
it's like wearing your game jersey in public. You don't
do that. Yeah. Yeah, You're on top of the world
and then all of a sudden you're in a dark tunnel.
Take us through this, you know, every every every kind
of story and movie. You have a movie that has
come out that Chris Pratt, good friend of mine is
is producing with Religion of Sports, called Helen Believe Again,
(21:13):
I didn't know this end of it. When I'm talking
to people, they're like, if something happened to or we're
not quite sure, hellas would happen after those Olympics. Yeah. So,
first I thought that the two thousand and sixteen Olympics
was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life
and asked of myself and I remember when I recommitted
to Tokyo, thinking well, the second time is probably going
to be harder, just because you're defending something. I never
thought that the journey would be where it led to,
(21:34):
but after twenty eighteen, so I won the twenty seventeen worlds,
and it felt like just climbing, climbing. And then in
twenty and eighteen, I did a pro league in India
and I ended up getting a concussion, and there just
wasn't the infrastructure there, the you know, coaching on the
staff in place to understand what comes with that and
how to protect the athlete and their health. And so
(21:54):
that ball got dropped knocked out cold concussion. No, it's
it's wild. IM like. I had a string of injuries
that all related to each other, so I had rabbed
Then from rabbedo, I told my ucl and my thumb
I had to get surgery. From the surgery and not lifting,
I think my neck wasn't strong. So the girl just
like head tapped me. It shouldn't have been a concussion,
but it is what it is. And that's why I
(22:15):
learned that you don't have to get knocked out or
anything to have a major oh yeah times yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. And I fought. I trained for a long time.
I wasn't very good, but I did it. Yeah yeah.
And I came back and it ended up being this
like two to three months long recovery and I had
a lot of bizarre symptoms. I couldn't recognize myself in
(22:38):
the mirror. I had light sensitivity, sound sensitivity, I had
you know, issues with my eyes that I had to
retrain out of, vestibular issues, gosh, a whole bunch of stuff.
And I even had personality changes and so that. Yeah,
so it's uh. I remember when specialist was like, I
don't care if you were the biggest jerk before the
concussion and you're an angel now who always want to
(22:58):
get back to where you were before line And so
actually getting the concussion, I'm normally a very emotional person,
and when I got the concussion, I was super logical,
like no emotion. And in a way it also like
kind of helped for a period of time because it
helped me to see some things going on in my
life and in certain dynamics, and I could just really
think very clearly, and so I started kind of calling
(23:20):
things out like no, why is this this way? Or no,
that's not okay to say to me, or like nope,
I just don't feel like doing this, So this is
this and these are the reasons why, and anyways, a
lot of it's really interesting healing process. And so I
was cleared clear to wrestle. I came back and I
got the second concussion in a just a crazy training experience.
(23:41):
It wasn't normal. I was brought to train with this
grown man who knew I had concussions. I didn't know
this at the time, and just clubbed my head over
and over again for forty five minutes straight, and you know,
And so that like led to a whole other issues
of healing and having to confront a lot of things
within myself like why didn't I stop up, Like, you know,
why didn't I say something? And that kind of led
(24:03):
into really diving deeper in myself as a person. And
so that's like a whole other story and enough self,
but that second why did you let yeah? Like my
like yeah, like my parents were like why didn't you stop?
And I said, you have to understand that the thing
that got me to the gold medal that everyone celebrates
is also the thing that got me to this rock
bottom with the concussion. And that was that I've always
(24:25):
had to prove myself like I always I can't ever stop,
like I gotta go if someone you know, was wrestling
me hard, like I'm not going to back down. I'm
going to prove that women can wrestle or this or that,
or I'm gonna, you know, earn the respect and this
and that, and I felt like God was kind of
really having me learn this lesson, like you gotta let
all this go, and you actually have to put yourself
in your health first, and there's nothing to prove anymore.
(24:46):
And if you keep thinking that there is, you're going
to get hurt. So that kind of became that tough
lesson to have to swallow. And I ended up having vertigo,
and terrible, terrible vertigo. My autonomic nervous system wouldn't regulate.
Were trying to figure out if it wass a brainstem injury.
It was another concussion, and they flew me to Colorado Springs,
and I remember just laying in bed all day, waking up,
(25:07):
going to see them, then running a bunch of tests,
trying to do Eppley maneuvers, this and that. Okay, didn't work,
go back and lay down, and we'll trike in the
next day, and just weeks and weeks were going by.
So eventually I healed and I cleared from that, and
I was training with my strength coach who you know,
whose colleague had done two tours in Afghanistan, and in
the middle of training, I would have these breakdown cries
that just started happening, and it was so embarrassing because
(25:29):
I'm like, I'm not sad, I don't know why this
is happening. And he actually said, hey, you're displaying signs
of PTSD. You should really think about getting checked out
for this. So then I talked to the psychologists and
the doctors that I was working with at the time,
and they're like, yeah, we're going to send you out
to Utah and then go out there. They're like, yep,
you have it, and we want you to do this
impatient program. And so I go into this like psychiatric
(25:52):
ward and that was just such like a wild experience.
And the first time that I went into the psychiatric
ward and the people that I around, it's all like,
you were not crazy, We're not supposed to be here,
We're just here, but like this isn't us, you know.
And the second time, the last concussion I had July
twenty nineteen, that one, I just had a girl that missed.
She went to call her time she missed and she
(26:13):
opened palm slapped me in my ear by accident, and
so I got a vestibular like inner ear issue which
also was a concussion, and it made me go crazy,
Like I called my mom and I said, you have
to stay on the phone with me. I don't know
if I'm going to like hurt myself something like I'm
I'm not in my body right now, I'm not in reality.
And went to you know, sports met the next day
(26:34):
and they took me immediately to the emergency room and
they put me on a seventy two hour hold for
suicidal ideation. Yeah, I had no recollection of this, or
it's just how I remember it, you know. I thought
I was very clear headed. And the second time in
that psyche ward, I remember just like sitting there and
being like, oh, I do belong here, Like I'm just
(26:58):
at this point, I've been trying to fight through all
these issues. I haven't been the same since. I just
feel like I don't function in society and I just
can't be human. And I'm like, yeah, I feel like
I failed as a person. And then and I'm supposed
to be here. So it was really wild to have
like this Olympic experience where you ask the most of
yourself and then this other experience where you feel like
you've just can't be normal in a couple of years.
(27:20):
So it was very eye opening for me. Yeah, that's
a lot of pain, that's a lot of inner turmoil
to go through, and a lot of put on yourself
right because you're comparing yourself to what, yeah, I've been,
even though where you're at right now is a certain
healing process. Also, Yeah, and that's where I learned, like
not to ever identify over identify with where you are
one phase in your life. As long as you keep
trying to be the best version of yourself, then you
(27:41):
can identify with yourself in the present because you'll be
proud of that. But like, winning the Olympics doesn't make
you a good person, It doesn't give you all the answers,
It doesn't guarantee that you won't have pain and success.
So just and the interesting thing too is like it's
not that I wanted to be stuck there. But I
don't know if you know any other athletes have said this,
But after the Olympics, all the media was like, please
tell us about August eighteen, twenty twenty eight sixteen, or
(28:04):
please tell us about Tokyo twenty twenty, Like everyone's asking
me to live in the past or the future, and
I just I didn't know what I know now where
I can ground myself in space. Yeah. So, so how
did you recover from all this? How long did it take? After?
When I got out of the institution in twenty nineteen,
(28:25):
I just knew, I'm like, I'm not coming back to wrestling.
I'm done with wrestling, Like there's nothing that's worth this,
and um, you know, I got a dog, and I
stayed in Colorado to do my therapy and try to heal.
I was too afraid to go home because I knew
if my parents saw me, they try and put me
back into a I just knew it wouldn't be good,
and I didn't want to do that to them. And
(28:45):
so I remember, my goal was just to make it
through to the next day. And I remember, you know, then,
the more kind of days I could wrack up, it
was like, hope, one day I can be normal and
have relationships again and have like, you know, friendships and
be able to like function with people. But I can't
even handle my own self. I can't take on like
you know, they say a lot of times when you
have a concussion. One of the hardest things is relationships
(29:06):
because it requires the most of your brain because you
have to process your own emotions. Then you have to
take their emotions and the things they're sharing process that
develop your Like there's just a lot for the brain.
And so I retired from wrestling. And once I said
that I retired from wrestling, I actually felt like this
whole weight just be lifted. And I went home for
Christmas in two in that December, and my parents said,
(29:28):
we know something's not right with you. You need to
just move home and just stay with us and we'll
help you, will get you the doctors, just be around family,
and it was really healing to just be able to
be completely like broken, but just love and accepted there
and just a couple weeks later, I actually remember telling
my parents like, I'm not wrestling, but I'm still bedridden
(29:49):
day and day out, and I don't have a normal life.
And I think that with the PTSD, a lot of
the trauma did come from wrestling, and so I think
I need to go back into wrestling, not competitively, but
just to heal again. Because I didn't want to watch wrestling.
I didn't want to be on a mat if anyone
mentioned it to me, I was like anxiety attack. And
so I would go and I would drill for twenty
minutes really light, like once, you know, once a week,
(30:09):
and then twice a week, and then three times a week.
I would drill, and then I would go home and
I'd lay in bed and I'd let these anxiety attacks happened.
And I noticed that each week it was less and
less and less. So I felt like retraining my brain
that wrestling is not a place to be afraid of,
you know. And so it was really healing to now
be able to full circle and come back and have
wrestling be my this love again because I didn't want
to end it on that note, right, And then you
(30:32):
decide to get back competitively. Yeah, so yeah. About a
month in I called my coach Kalities, my sport performance coach,
and I said, hey, I have this opportunity there letting
pass A medalists wrestle off for a chance to qualify
the way the Panams Olympic qualifier. I would like to
do that, but can you just tell me it's is safe,
(30:53):
it's medically safe, like can it be done or is
it if it's risk at all to go wrestle and
compete right now. Then I'm not I won't do it,
and so you know, we worked on a plan together.
He's like, no, this can be done. And I really
thought that I was going to wrestle just to I
wanted to practice putting a single it on and making
weight and seeing how I could handle that stress. Like
I thought I was going to go lose and then
(31:14):
that's it. I would hopefully have a couple more months
to be ready for Olympic trials. And I ended up
having to wrestle off the number one at the fifty
nine weight class and the number one at the fifty
seven weight class, and I ended up winning both those matches.
So then I got to go qualify the weight for
the Olympics. And then I went and I thought I
was only going to have to wrestle two matches to qualify,
and I ended up being four. But you had no Ai,
Your anxiety was gone. I had. I had no I
(31:37):
had issues. It's like very borderline because I don't I
would never ever ever encourage anyone to wrestle with any
kind of injury, and so for me, it's like I
don't want to pretend like everything was one hundred percent okay.
It wasn't. But it's also a really delicate situation, and
I made sure to have a team of doctors and
people that would hold me accountable and help me to
process this of is this injury or is this PTSD?
(31:58):
Because one of the things with PTSD, when I got
stressed or an anxiety, my brain would give me concussion
like symptoms. So I remember getting into the elevator and
just feeling like all of a sudden, the room was
spinning or I don't know, am I really And it
felt like l I didn't hull my head, yeah, like
nothing happened, So this has to be more you know,
(32:19):
kind of psychosomatic. Right, There's a lot of psychosomatic stuff.
So I just worked through that and competing the first
tournament was really it was so I remember thinking I
might just pull out because I just don't, you know,
I don't feel right, And then over time it just
kept getting better and better, and it felt like my
brain was just like and I learned about this, you know,
(32:40):
through different therapies, was just like your threat bucket, right,
and when you get a concussion, your threshold for threat
that you can take goes extremely low. So that's why,
like you know, being under lights or having a couple
of conversations can all of a sudden seem overwhelming and
you get symptoms. But to the normal human, you can
push and ask a lot of yourself, and you're their
threshold for your threat bucket is higher. So I was
(33:02):
kind of trying to just increase my threshold and hope
that that brought on healing. One point though, because you're
saying like I couldn't even look at wrestling, I don't
want to hear it. When did you start to love
it again in this process or did you It took
a while. I think for the most part, I at
first it was just using wrestling to hopefully heal a
(33:22):
lot of symptoms and heal a lot of like the
trauma responses. And then it became like, well, I just
want to see it through because I made this commitment
to do twenty twenty four, and I would say probably
in twenty twenty one when I made the Olympic team
and I started training with my teammates again, it was
just this full healing. It's like I love these women,
I love this experience, I love getting to do life
(33:43):
with them, and they really helped me with my healing.
Just by creating this beautiful space for us to just
be with each other and push each other so and
even to this day, I think if the team dynamic
was ro off, I think I would have just retired
after twenty twenty. But I just I'm like, I'm around
great people. Why you know, I love this. I want
to keep doing it. You came all the way back
and then you meddled again, right yeah, Okay, yeah, you
(34:04):
came all the way back. So with this version of you,
you're still meddled again. Yeah, Which which you more proud of?
The gold or what you get? You get the silver,
the bronze in this of bronze bron Which you more
proud of the bronze having gone through this dark tunnel,
your unbreakable moment coming through the other side, or the gold.
I don't think I could pick one or the other
because both were really major milestones for me in that
(34:26):
time of my life. But I will say that I
really felt that I had the ability to win the
gold this time around, and you know I lost in
the Semis. No points were scored by either of us.
Is kind of rough handed out some points. But I
remember after losing in the Semis, having this insane amount
(34:47):
of peace over me, Like it was just such a
covering of peace. And I remember it was just like
in that moment, in that instant of losing, it's like
you fought so hard to get back that if you
become bitter about losing, like what were you funding to
come back from? So you can have bitterness the rest
of your life about like a career placement And it
really was. No. I'm just so happy that I got
(35:08):
to be back and I got to do it. I
love one more time, so and I've just been really
like at peace and happy with that ever since. So
here's the thing I tell all athletes is like nobody
can ever take away what you did. That's it. You
did it, that's behind your rib cage, right and that
goes on your wall with the rest of your life,
and it's something you should always be proud of. It's
not what have you done for me lately? You already
(35:29):
know the battles that you have won and been through
and these tunnels that you've come through, and that you
should you should always love yourself up. You should always
give yourself permission to love yourself up for that. That's
helpful to hear. Would you say that you find athletes
struggle with that, because I think it's really difficult. Yes.
I look, I created a charity for a col mvp
E merging vets and players because I saw once these
(35:50):
guy's uniforms came off, they were like, these football players
are like, well, I used to be this guy. I
used to be that. Like, no, motherfucker, this is like,
this is who you are. You play the NFL, not
oh man, I used to play in the NFL. Right, No,
you play in the NFL. You got there, and you
play in the NFL's not who you are. What's behind
your rib cage. You got you to beat out millions
(36:11):
and millions and millions of other kids and high school
kids and college kids to play at a level. That's
who the fuck you are. That doesn't suddenly just leave
when the uniform comes up. And too many equate their
own personal worth to that uniform instead of what got
them to have that uniform. Yeah, that's super helpful to hear,
because it's like the interesting thing is that when you're
(36:35):
still in it, it's like people can praise you or
thank you for what you're doing. But then when you're
out of it, sometimes that treatment is completely different. I
remember being like, why doesn't anyone talk about retiring Like
this is brutal, it's like and it's a bit of
a death to self and a death of your old
identity being you know, in sport for so long. But
(36:55):
also it's just you realize and this I learned to, like,
you're really replaceable to everyone but yourself. You gotta learn
how to start celebrating what you've done. That's like, you
did it. No one could take that you did it.
And it's a practice I try every every day. I
meditate on things I'm proud of in the past because
I also I beat up with myself constantly. I'm so
self loathing and so not worthy of shit and sabotage
(37:17):
all sorts of things. And so it sudden I started
doing this year after like having written this book and
doing this podcast. I then get a lot more help
but an ideas. So I work on being proud of
these things. And it doesn't mean like, oh I used
to be this or I used to do it. No
I did this. No one could take that, and no
one can take that from you at your currency forever
you did it. Oh, I like I write that down.
(37:38):
That's your currency forever. Yep. That's what do you when
you go out and speak? Now, Like, what's your message
for people? Oh? I really just answer questions or I
think my the most important thing that I want to
share is just leading with vulnerability. When I was a
little girl, I didn't have, you know, female Olympic champions
(37:59):
in the sport to look up to, because there wasn't
even an Olympics yet, and so I always tried to
look and emulate from the men, and I felt that
I just couldn't identify or relate to them. And then,
you know, even looking at women in other sports, I
feel like before social media, it was just the media
that controlled the narrative and they were always covering athletes,
you know, strengths. And I just want to share with
you know, younger athletes and people today that no one
(38:20):
has it figured out and we're all kind of journeying
through this mess and we're doing the best we can
and that's okay. And when we're you know, vulnerable with ourselves,
we can kind to ourselves. We can allow for beautiful
growth and healing to take place. It to me, being
unbreakable is not everything. That's rosy. It's something that almost
broke you but didn't when you came through the other
side of that tunnel stronger as a result, and you
(38:42):
could use that for the rest of your life. Yeah,
do you find this? Would you agree with this? That? Also,
when you get to that place where the thing feels
like it's about to break you, I think almost get
to a place where you realize it it could and
for whatever reason, if it doesn't, that's great, But it's
it's a quite easier hindsight to look back and be like, oh,
that didn't break me, But in the moment, you're like,
(39:03):
I really think this is the thing that's going to
break me. I always have had to make a decision
that's something wouldn't oh interesting. I've been on the borderline
too of like man wanting to take my life for
wanting to just been oh in the darkest places or
and I would make the decision I'm not going to
let it break me. Like I had a knew near
death experience too, like oh, okay, I'm gonna use this
(39:25):
to come through the other side of the tunnel and
use this to help more people. That was me having
a conversation with God saying Hey, I think I'm about
to come see you, and if I am, it's okay.
I love you, but I think there's more I could
do in this world. And if you give this other shot,
I promise you that I will do good things in
this world and help a lot of people. Well moment, Yeah,
(39:46):
my oxygen went from seventy two to ninety four and boom,
I kind of came back to And that was for me,
my unbreakable moment. Actually open my gym unbreakable with the
use of an oxygen attack back then, like all right,
I'm gonna do it. Started my charity right after that. Yeah,
that's wild. Oh my gosh, that's so crazy. Yeah. Yeah,
I've heard in new death experiences are messages that people
(40:08):
come back with. It's so profound. Yeah. I wasn't there
side a hospital. And it's funny because I woke up
on this gurnee and Randy coutour wrestler fight. It was
my burdens of contact that he's standing over and on
this gurnee and I wake up and I'm like, well,
if I'm dead, i ain't in heaven because his ass
wouldn't be here. Like I'm either alive or on many
(40:34):
other place so, but yeah, that that was my unbreakable
moment and for you too, like you came through the
other side of this tunnel and it's beautiful that you've
been able to overcome it and teach another but also
really know you're like these things you've overcome, those are
all gold medals. Yeah, yeah, right, those are gold medals
of life. Yeah, that definitely feels like that. I really
(40:57):
appreciate having you on. It's been amazing. Thank you. I
have an open invitation to come to Unbreakable whenever you
want whip up on my crew. You'll love it. Yes,
thank you so much. All right, Helen, I really appreciate
you joining us malkin swalk with me. Thank you so much.
Thank you,
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glazer. Welcome back to Unbreakable, a mental
health podcast with Jay Glazer. I am Jay Glazer. The
irony of that. And look, we've had different fighters on
(00:23):
different combat sport athletes, but we've yet to have on
the most decorated female American wrestler of all time until today.
That changes. Hell, am Auless, welcome to I'm Breakable. I
appreciate you jumping on with me. Hi, thank you so much, Jay,
thank you for having me. This is an honor. Oh absolutely,
Look from you know, obviously I have a wrestling background.
I haven't you know, I'm not the most decorated wrestler
(00:44):
of all time of anything. But you know, I understand
appreciate that wrestler grind, that wrestler mentality. But you have
quite a story, because when I have these podcasts, it's
not just for people who are struggling. And you know,
we'll come on with there and I I have, you know,
come forward and I've written a book about my depression,
my anxiety, my add my bipolar to get us all
to start talking about it, so we don't think we're
(01:05):
in the minority anymore. And all my mental health issues
drove me to where I am, right, But this is
also a mental health podcast as far as you know,
getting between yours of what makes us great, what makes
us overcome. So I want to dive in for people
who aren't familiar with your story. You're the first female
American women to ever get a gold medal in the Olympics. Correct, Okay,
(01:26):
giving it some more caracults here, okay, um, I am
a three time world champion. Yeah, the first female to
when an American females when Olympic gold medal in women's wrestling.
I'm so sorry. Yeah, most people we stuck at given
ourselves praise, I understand it. How many how many? How
(01:46):
many times have you medal in the Olympics? So oh yeah, tway,
so that's right. Okay, yeah, okay, we need to leave
these things. Oh yeah, by the way, that's right. But
so you medal, and we're going to get into your
your medal before and after your head injuries. Yes, yes
(02:08):
I did, so we'll get into that a little bit.
So take us, take meto this journey. Tell us how
you got into wrestling first, and then I want you
to dive into what makes you different than everybody else
because you are one of one. Being the first female
Americans ever get a gold medal, that makes you one
of one. So first let's get into how you got
into it. Yeah, so I started wrestling when I was
seven years old. Before that, you know, I did kind
(02:30):
of a lot of typical girl sports like gymnastics, dancing,
ballet diving, and every sport that I had joined, I
would shut down and cry. I was really shy. I
didn't like being watched or looked at, so the instructors
would ask my mom not to bring me back. And
then my older and younger brother had joined wrestling and
there weren't enough kids on the team, so my mom
didn't want to make my little brother have to wait
(02:51):
another year, so she just told me to jump in
there and be my brother's dummy. And after about two
weeks of hard work, I went to my parents and
I said, this isn't fair. I'm doing all the hard
work with the boys are doing, but they get to
compete and I don't. And so my dad, knowing my
track record with sports, was like, okay, I'll let you
wrestle one match and if you win that match, you
can keep wrestling. And they thought that I would never
step on the mat, and I did. It was the
(03:12):
only match I have won all year. I was one
and thirty my first year, but I got to keep Yeah,
one and thirty, and I fell in love with it instantly.
Maybe it's because people didn't want me there, didn't pay attention.
I don't know. Maybe that gave me the space. But
I think wrestling I also have an ADHD brain, and
I think wrestling is one of those things that can
like always excite and never disappoint the ADHD brain because
(03:35):
there's just endless possibilities. When did you start changing over
and to whip And everyone's ask Well, the first year
I was one and thirty and I think the second
year I was probably more like thirty and one ish,
like I don't know the exact record. And that was
really interesting because I had a really great coach my
first season. I mean right away he was welcoming up
girls being on the team. I was the only girl,
(03:56):
and my experience with wrestling at the time was like, oh,
everyone supports you and this is great. And then the
next year is when once I started getting good. Is
when parents would start calling names or you know, people
would say stuff, and then all of a sudden, you're
not just like the cute little girl that's trying and
losing anymore. Now all of a sudden, you're like, get
that Dike off the mat, or hurt that girl, make
(04:18):
sure she doesn't come back, make sure she quits. So, yeah,
that's my career kind of started. Why would stay career
back then? But like support, it just really start to change.
You're eighty eight years old and parents are calling your dike. Yes,
I mean that was like not at eight, that was
probably at like twelve, between like eleven twelve thirteen. But
it was like I just remember it wasn't cool to win,
(04:41):
and like, as a seven year old, I didn't really
understand it. So but I think the really nice thing
is that when you're seven and you don't understand things,
you can approach things with a childlike mine. So I
just remember I would go into when I went to
my first junior league team, my mom took me to
the you know program, and the coach put me with
the three best guys and told them to rotate in
(05:03):
on me until I quit or until they hurt me,
and I just remember thinking my mom knew what was
going on and she was pissed. So she eventually ended
up taking me to a different club. But at the time,
I remember thinking, wow, like this new junior league is
really tough. Like if I want to be able to
beat these guys, I really got to get better because
I'm getting my ass whooked. Like I just didn't understand
like some at times, what was going on. So I
(05:25):
think that kind of helped me a little bit. Why
did you really start to realize you were special? So
here's what's really interesting. When I was seven and I
did it for the first year, you know how like
when you're young, it's not year round. So after that
season ended whatever, let's say March, my parents came to
me and they said, hey, we can see that you
really like this, that you're getting attached to the sport.
(05:46):
But it's not an Olympic sport for women's wrestling, And
this is weird. What are you going to do? Grow up?
Wrestling boys in high school? Like, there's no scholarship, there's
no opportunity for you, so you have to quit wrestling.
And so you know, as a kid, you don't have
a say, so it's like okay, and then that's summer.
Like literally two months later, they announced that women's wrestling
was going to be added to the two thousand and
four Olympics. So my parents came back to me before
(06:07):
the start of the next season and they said, hey,
like women's wrestling is being added to the Olympics. There's
probably going to be all these opportunities for you by
the time you know, you grow up, So if you
want to do this, you can do this. And at
that moment, like right when I turned eight, I just said, Okay,
the one thing that I love to do got taken
away from me because there wasn't this Olympic opportunity. And
now that there is, I have to go for that.
So at eight years old, I'm like, I want to
(06:28):
go to the Olympics. Well you're already thinking about the Olympics. Yeah,
But it's so easy to say when you're eight, yeah,
because you can dream. Let's get no, but you're you're
not asking my question. My question was when did you
realize you were different? Like you ain't like everybody else
hell them, When did you realize, Okay, I'm the baddest
motherfucker in this wrestling room right now. You know, it's funny.
Not everyone is given everything. And I feel like maybe
(06:52):
the gift or the talent that I've been given with
wrestling has also come with this um maybe inability to
see myself in that. And I think that's a good
thing because it drives me to always think that there's better.
But I've I've struggled with confidence my whole life and career,
so I don't think I've ever thought like, oh, I'm
just special and better and it's actually the thing that
I have to work on. Is so. But there had
(07:14):
a bet time when you started going to wrestling tour,
i'ment and everybody they were looking and going, oh shit,
I don't want to face her. I remember people telling
me that I'm I'm super talented and I'm really good,
and even I mean even now, I'll have coaches like
tell me, I wish you could see yourself the way
we see you. So that's really encouraging, but it's hard
for me to just like do that. I don't know why.
I remember in two th eleven, I left practice one
(07:35):
day and I was always really hard on myself, and
I just remember hearing this voice like this could be you?
Why not you? And it was actually in that moment
in twenty eleven that I remember thinking that I believe
that I'm actually good and talented enough that I can
win the Olympics, and that you should always give our
best and my best is going to be gold. So
if I don't do that, then I didn't actually do
(07:55):
my best. And that I think, like right around twenty
eleven was when I really felt that were you born
with the wrestlers grind or did you pick that up?
Or you know, there's for people out there who haven't wrestled,
there's a totally different, totally different work ethic from wrestlers
and everybody else. It's just relentless, relentless work ethic, and
it's the hours you put in when no one's watching
that makes you great. It's a lonely sport that way. Yeah,
(08:17):
that is so true. I don't know if I was
born with it. I think also, ADHD that helps a lot.
And you know, and I also think, just love love
what you do. Like I hate lifting weights, I hate running.
It is like nails on the chalkboard. I do it
for the sole purpose of how much I love wrestling
and how it's going to benefit my wrestling. So I
think when when people find the sport that they love,
(08:39):
they're more motivated and it's easier for them to put
those hours in. Again your level. I've had guys like
Chails on him, right, famous wrestlers, just champs, you've said,
Helen Merlis is the reason I started watching female wrestling,
like tearing you like Laila League for boxing right, women's boxing. Right.
So there is so for somebody like you as a
hard time feeling that I want you to know that
(08:59):
that's yeah, no, I it's it's not. Um well, I
would say, like on the flip side my mentality when
I'm because this is something that I think being starting
in a male dominant sport helped develop in me. And
it's really helped is that I had to hold myself
to a higher standard. When you're a little girl and
you're in the sport and you know the coach is
(09:19):
showing the moves, I knew that if I didn't pick
this move up quickly, it was going to be well,
this is why you don't belong here. Whereas like little
Johnny in the corner, he can take a year to
learn the move and the coach will still work with him.
And and that's not to say every coach, but I
just had experiences like that where you know, people want
to parade a female wrestler how tough she is, and
it's like, Okay, that's cool, but we're not doing that
for the boys over here. You're actually holding them to
(09:41):
a high standard. They have to get the technique down,
they have to have good positions. So I, from a
young age just kind of intuitively felt like whatever people celebrate,
I need to make sure that I'm always holding myself
to this higher standard. And the one thing for me
was that technique has no gender. So I might not
be the fastest amongst the boys, I might not be
the strongest, but like you know, damned if I don't
have the best technique. And that was something I really
(10:03):
really really pride myself on because I knew that this fight,
it's like you're gonna spend your whole life trying to
fight to proof by women belong in sports, and guys
are like, well, they're not as fast as the men.
It's like that's yeah, true, but like you can't tell
me that I don't know, like good technique in good
wrestling position your footwork is ridiculous. Your footwork is absolutely
next level, just incredible. So now take us through. So
(10:24):
you know Helen's story again, we're gonna you're gonna take
us to the gold medal and then Helen went through
really hard times after that. She's gonna explain that and
take us through and how she came through that dark
tunnel as well. But take us through that Olympic you're
you're facing I mean, you know, absolute legend and yeah, right,
and are you okay? First, when you make the Olympics,
(10:45):
is it just like okay, this was gonna do? Where
is it? And I've talked to Michael Phelps about this.
We also like take us into those of us who
I've been there, the experience of making the Olympics, being
out there what like out of body and inner body experience. Yeah,
so the whole process. It's just that was just such
a wild year. I don't even know five words for it.
But and it's every sport is different in their qualification.
(11:05):
So I actually had a really hard time making weight
for fifty three because it was I was in the
middleweight class and I had to go down to the
Olympic weight and when I had made the Olympic team
for the US. At the US Trials, the weight still
wasn't qualified for the Olympics, so I had to fly
ten days later to Mongolia make weight again, and I
had to make it to the finals of this tournament
to qualify the weight. So I think you were cutting
(11:28):
down one fifty three one sixteen. I'm like, well, what, yeah, yeah,
I don't remember that. Okay, yeah, I think the quila
what are you what are you coming from? Like one
forty five? Yeah, I was. I was like on a big,
bulking program and I had doctor scientists, like I was working,
(11:48):
you know, with amazing people. It just it was I
think that was just kind of that battle to overcome,
and honestly, I think it helped me because by the
time I got to the Olympics, it was like this
was a twenty four seven, you know, three hundred and
six to five day job, Like I'm going to get
after this, just because it took so much. And then
wrestling at the Olympics was just the most surreal experience ever.
(12:10):
I just remember feeling like I was on cloud nine
and I think my you know, my kind of mindset
was just I don't want to have regret. I failed
to make the Olympic team in twenty and twelve, even
though I was favored to make the team and I
had qualified the weight and I just I got in
my head and I choked and I underperformed. And it's like,
losing is not the worst feeling. Underperforming is the worst feeling.
(12:32):
If you do your best but you lose, it's like, man,
that person like they earned it, they got it. But
when you get in your own way, it's just that
I think it's the pain that you hold on to.
And so for four years is like, you know, I
work in the NFL. You have the next year you
come back, but having to hold on to that for
four years brutal. Yeah. Yeah, And you see how it
(12:54):
can affect people psychologically sometimes too, because it's like you
can't lie to yourself that this is a once every
four years thing. So as much as you're trying to
relax or whatever, there's just a level of anxiety that
that you see on people's faces at the games. And
so I actually think growing up with anxiety and having
to battle through that year in and year out actually
helped me a lot, because to me, the Olympics it's
(13:15):
like well, I treat everything like the Olympics because I'm
always just freaking out about things. So this is actually
my norm, like your superpower. Yeah yeah, yeah, so it
really worked out, worked out for me. I want people
to really hear that those with anxiety again, there is
an advantage because it makes you good in chaos. It
makes you, you know, be able to calm where other
people will freak out. It can be used as your superpower.
(13:38):
That's it. The title of my book is how I
use my depression anxiety to motivate me. And so I
love that you say that I had to make it
my superpower. Yes, yeah, yeah, and then you totally you
get it, you live it. I think, Yeah, it's almost
like once you integrate that within yourself. And and the
other lesson I learned too is that you win with
your strengths and your weaknesses. So in twenty twelve, you know,
(13:59):
I felt like, well, when I get rid of my anxiety,
or when I believe in myself and when I'm perfect,
then I'm worthy of being an Olympian. And I think
coming through to twenty sixteen, I realized you're never going
to be perfect. You're gonna win with your strengths and
your weaknesses, and so I'm bringing all of me to
the mat and that's enough. So I don't need to
be the strongest. I need just need to be strong enough.
I don't need to be the fastest. I just need
(14:21):
to be fast enough. Sore off yourself. Yeah, So, as
you're going through here and you come to the gold
medal match against Yoshida, take me in your mindset because
you're you're facing a legend, right, and I think thirteen
time world chap and yeah, I may not be doing
her justice, but she is basically the baddest motherfucker on
the planet at that point. Yeah, So Yoshida is literally
(14:44):
a legend in women's wrestling. One reporter I heard them
describe this. They said, some people call her the Michael
Jordan of women's wrestling. She's not the Michael Jordan. She
just is women's wrestling. She won the first ever Olympics
and she's won every Olympics and world championship since. So
this woman never never lost. And I had wrestled her
twice before, you know, throughout the years. I got pinned quickly,
(15:06):
so just totally you know, annihilated by this woman. And
then in twenty fourteen, I got to go to a camp,
a two day camp that Japan never opens their doors.
They allowed three Americans in and we got to go
train and every day I was just asking her to go.
Still got my butt whooped, but I got to see
how she was as a person on and off the mat,
and I realized, instead of looking like for weaknesses in
(15:27):
this person, I just need to like lift myself up
and make myself better, because she's truly a champion on
and off the mat. So she honestly didn't become She
wasn't an enemy or arrival. She really was like my
role model and my hero. And I remember thinking the
Swedish girl I had in the semis, I had lost
to her in the Worlds before, you know, leading into
the finals, and I felt like she's in my way
(15:49):
of me getting to wrestle my hero, and my hero
is going to retire after this Olympics and I'll never
get this chance again. And what an honor it is
to get to be on the mat with this woman,
like win or lose. I want this one more time.
So it made to the finals and it felt like
a dream come true. And then it warm up. Actually
before the finals. I remembered, you know, jogging around and
being like, don't look over at her. Don't look over
because if you look over at her, you're gonna lose
(16:11):
all your confidence. And I look over and I see
her hit this beautiful BLUs double and I remember, just
you know, Helen, like, silver medal is not that bad
so far, Like I literally I made piece of it.
I'm like yeah, like she is the best. And then
it was like, no, remember your mount like Chris is
in me, I'm enough, and I'm like, yeah, I just
I just want to give everything I have in this match.
So walking out of the tunnel, I cannot put into words.
(16:34):
There's some it was electrifying, Like it just felt like
this larger than life moment, this amazing thing that you're
going to experience. I just took it all in. But
I was dialed in and for six minutes time stood
still like I would have wrestled forever. I would have
just never stopped. That's how I felt. It was like,
I love this moment so much. And you know, obviously
(16:56):
every athlete will describe it being in the zone and
when the buzzer ring and I, you know, realized that
I had one. I just started crying because I feel
like these blinders came off and I just thought about
like ten year old Helen and thirteen year old Helen
and sixteen year old Helen, and this shy little girl,
this insecure girl, Like this girl has no business being
here on this mat doing this thing today. But here
(17:17):
was I got. I got to do it, and you know,
it was a dream come true. What was the score
of match? Four to one? Yeah, you dominate her. No,
I was actually losing one zero going into the second period,
and then everything, you know, came together. So she's one
of those people you can never count out like ten
seconds left. I've seen her win crazy matches. She's just
(17:38):
that great. So what do you hit to go up? Honestly,
nothing that I've ever drilled in my life. Really. Yeah,
it was a really strategical match. So they put me
on the shot clock first, and I knew everyone shoots
when they get on the shot clock, and I knew
that I needed to give up this point in order
to win the match, Like who's the battle to win
the war? Because I'm like, if I take a bad
(17:59):
shot and she apitalizes off this, I'm going to give
up more points, so I gave her the point second period.
She and I both knew that if she doesn't hit something,
they're gonna put her on the clock. And whoever scores
last week, So I would have won once one and
I went for some weird head pinch and she went
for a headlock throw off of it, and I just
slipped it and got two. And then I think the
last minute she was looking to you know, take shots
(18:20):
and open things up, and she tried to slide by
and I just like kind of knee picked it out
of bounds. So it's just wild, Like if all the
moves that I spent hours and hours and hours of
drilling like those weren't them. Wow, merntality got you and
your spirit like got you into that position when you
got up, did you say to yourself like, holy shit,
I'm winning this, Like if you were able to like
in a moment like holy shit, this is happening. I
(18:44):
know I really was in like shock, I'm really in
shock and in disbelief, like and I was just so grateful.
I was just so grateful. And I remember, you know,
going into the Limbic Games and you're really stressed out,
and someone connected me with a two time Olympic gold
medalist in rowing, and you know, she so kindly did
a phone call with me going into the Olympic Games
and she's like, hey, kid, like listen, she goes. You think,
(19:07):
you know, you're on this rainbow, and you think that
there's this pot of gold at the end of the
tunnel or at the end of it, but there's not
like this is it like this journey the rainbow, Like
this is the gift. The journey is the rainbow. Yes, yeah,
And I was like, yeah, easy for you to say,
you have a gold medal, like, you know, but by
the time I competed at the Olympics, it really felt
like that it was like win or lose. What this
(19:27):
sport has asked of me and what I've been able
to ask of myself and what I've been able to
learn of myself through that process is just it's just
makes you feel so alive and amazing and it was
just such a beautiful experience. And you know, the gold
medal is just icing on the cake, but it's not everything.
I love that you're able to celebrate yourself because so
many of my friends who've won aren't. I got Michael
(19:49):
Phelps on this Joe and he look at his medals.
I'm like, dude, you're one of one. Like He's like, yeah,
I don't want that to define me. I'm like, no, no, no,
that defines the work ethic that you had, Like start
learning how to love yourself for that work ethic that
separates you from everybody else. He's like, oh, yeah, maybe
I could do that, but I've had a lot of
you know, my partner on Breakable, Lindsay Berger, was a
two time silver medalist captain of the women's folleyball team.
(20:11):
She never leads with it, and I'm always telling people
like she led two teams to you know, two celeb medals,
that they're culs or whatever. They were right, And I
love that you're able to because y'all deserve it the
work you put in to be able to celebrate yourself,
and so many of our champions aren't able to do that.
I try and work on that with them. Yes, I
love that you're able to. That is a gift. Thanks. Yeah,
(20:32):
I just I don't. I'm not celebrating the medal. I'm
just celebrating the lessons that you Yeah, you deserve it.
I know. So sometimes super when they find out or
after the Olympics, they're like, why don't you wear it everywhere?
You should be always having around your neck, Like if
we actually did that, you like, come on, yeah, crushed. Yeah,
(20:52):
it's like wearing your game jersey in public. You don't
do that. Yeah. Yeah, You're on top of the world
and then all of a sudden you're in a dark tunnel.
Take us through this, you know, every every every kind
of story and movie. You have a movie that has
come out that Chris Pratt, good friend of mine is
is producing with Religion of Sports, called Helen Believe Again,
(21:13):
I didn't know this end of it. When I'm talking
to people, they're like, if something happened to or we're
not quite sure, hellas would happen after those Olympics. Yeah. So,
first I thought that the two thousand and sixteen Olympics
was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life
and asked of myself and I remember when I recommitted
to Tokyo, thinking well, the second time is probably going
to be harder, just because you're defending something. I never
thought that the journey would be where it led to,
(21:34):
but after twenty eighteen, so I won the twenty seventeen worlds,
and it felt like just climbing, climbing. And then in
twenty and eighteen, I did a pro league in India
and I ended up getting a concussion, and there just
wasn't the infrastructure there, the you know, coaching on the
staff in place to understand what comes with that and
how to protect the athlete and their health. And so
(21:54):
that ball got dropped knocked out cold concussion. No, it's
it's wild. IM like. I had a string of injuries
that all related to each other, so I had rabbed
Then from rabbedo, I told my ucl and my thumb
I had to get surgery. From the surgery and not lifting,
I think my neck wasn't strong. So the girl just
like head tapped me. It shouldn't have been a concussion,
but it is what it is. And that's why I
(22:15):
learned that you don't have to get knocked out or
anything to have a major oh yeah times yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. And I fought. I trained for a long time.
I wasn't very good, but I did it. Yeah yeah.
And I came back and it ended up being this
like two to three months long recovery and I had
a lot of bizarre symptoms. I couldn't recognize myself in
(22:38):
the mirror. I had light sensitivity, sound sensitivity, I had
you know, issues with my eyes that I had to
retrain out of, vestibular issues, gosh, a whole bunch of stuff.
And I even had personality changes and so that. Yeah,
so it's uh. I remember when specialist was like, I
don't care if you were the biggest jerk before the
concussion and you're an angel now who always want to
(22:58):
get back to where you were before line And so
actually getting the concussion, I'm normally a very emotional person,
and when I got the concussion, I was super logical,
like no emotion. And in a way it also like
kind of helped for a period of time because it
helped me to see some things going on in my
life and in certain dynamics, and I could just really
think very clearly, and so I started kind of calling
(23:20):
things out like no, why is this this way? Or no,
that's not okay to say to me, or like nope,
I just don't feel like doing this, So this is
this and these are the reasons why, and anyways, a
lot of it's really interesting healing process. And so I
was cleared clear to wrestle. I came back and I
got the second concussion in a just a crazy training experience.
(23:41):
It wasn't normal. I was brought to train with this
grown man who knew I had concussions. I didn't know
this at the time, and just clubbed my head over
and over again for forty five minutes straight, and you know,
And so that like led to a whole other issues
of healing and having to confront a lot of things
within myself like why didn't I stop up, Like, you know,
why didn't I say something? And that kind of led
(24:03):
into really diving deeper in myself as a person. And
so that's like a whole other story and enough self,
but that second why did you let yeah? Like my
like yeah, like my parents were like why didn't you stop?
And I said, you have to understand that the thing
that got me to the gold medal that everyone celebrates
is also the thing that got me to this rock
bottom with the concussion. And that was that I've always
(24:25):
had to prove myself like I always I can't ever stop,
like I gotta go if someone you know, was wrestling
me hard, like I'm not going to back down. I'm
going to prove that women can wrestle or this or that,
or I'm gonna, you know, earn the respect and this
and that, and I felt like God was kind of
really having me learn this lesson, like you gotta let
all this go, and you actually have to put yourself
in your health first, and there's nothing to prove anymore.
(24:46):
And if you keep thinking that there is, you're going
to get hurt. So that kind of became that tough
lesson to have to swallow. And I ended up having vertigo,
and terrible, terrible vertigo. My autonomic nervous system wouldn't regulate.
Were trying to figure out if it wass a brainstem injury.
It was another concussion, and they flew me to Colorado Springs,
and I remember just laying in bed all day, waking up,
(25:07):
going to see them, then running a bunch of tests,
trying to do Eppley maneuvers, this and that. Okay, didn't work,
go back and lay down, and we'll trike in the
next day, and just weeks and weeks were going by.
So eventually I healed and I cleared from that, and
I was training with my strength coach who you know,
whose colleague had done two tours in Afghanistan, and in
the middle of training, I would have these breakdown cries
that just started happening, and it was so embarrassing because
(25:29):
I'm like, I'm not sad, I don't know why this
is happening. And he actually said, hey, you're displaying signs
of PTSD. You should really think about getting checked out
for this. So then I talked to the psychologists and
the doctors that I was working with at the time,
and they're like, yeah, we're going to send you out
to Utah and then go out there. They're like, yep,
you have it, and we want you to do this
impatient program. And so I go into this like psychiatric
(25:52):
ward and that was just such like a wild experience.
And the first time that I went into the psychiatric
ward and the people that I around, it's all like,
you were not crazy, We're not supposed to be here,
We're just here, but like this isn't us, you know.
And the second time, the last concussion I had July
twenty nineteen, that one, I just had a girl that missed.
She went to call her time she missed and she
(26:13):
opened palm slapped me in my ear by accident, and
so I got a vestibular like inner ear issue which
also was a concussion, and it made me go crazy,
Like I called my mom and I said, you have
to stay on the phone with me. I don't know
if I'm going to like hurt myself something like I'm
I'm not in my body right now, I'm not in reality.
And went to you know, sports met the next day
(26:34):
and they took me immediately to the emergency room and
they put me on a seventy two hour hold for
suicidal ideation. Yeah, I had no recollection of this, or
it's just how I remember it, you know. I thought
I was very clear headed. And the second time in
that psyche ward, I remember just like sitting there and
being like, oh, I do belong here, Like I'm just
(26:58):
at this point, I've been trying to fight through all
these issues. I haven't been the same since. I just
feel like I don't function in society and I just
can't be human. And I'm like, yeah, I feel like
I failed as a person. And then and I'm supposed
to be here. So it was really wild to have
like this Olympic experience where you ask the most of
yourself and then this other experience where you feel like
you've just can't be normal in a couple of years.
(27:20):
So it was very eye opening for me. Yeah, that's
a lot of pain, that's a lot of inner turmoil
to go through, and a lot of put on yourself
right because you're comparing yourself to what, yeah, I've been,
even though where you're at right now is a certain
healing process. Also, Yeah, and that's where I learned, like
not to ever identify over identify with where you are
one phase in your life. As long as you keep
trying to be the best version of yourself, then you
(27:41):
can identify with yourself in the present because you'll be
proud of that. But like, winning the Olympics doesn't make
you a good person, It doesn't give you all the answers,
It doesn't guarantee that you won't have pain and success.
So just and the interesting thing too is like it's
not that I wanted to be stuck there. But I
don't know if you know any other athletes have said this,
But after the Olympics, all the media was like, please
tell us about August eighteen, twenty twenty eight sixteen, or
(28:04):
please tell us about Tokyo twenty twenty, Like everyone's asking
me to live in the past or the future, and
I just I didn't know what I know now where
I can ground myself in space. Yeah. So, so how
did you recover from all this? How long did it take? After?
When I got out of the institution in twenty nineteen,
(28:25):
I just knew, I'm like, I'm not coming back to wrestling.
I'm done with wrestling, Like there's nothing that's worth this,
and um, you know, I got a dog, and I
stayed in Colorado to do my therapy and try to heal.
I was too afraid to go home because I knew
if my parents saw me, they try and put me
back into a I just knew it wouldn't be good,
and I didn't want to do that to them. And
(28:45):
so I remember, my goal was just to make it
through to the next day. And I remember, you know, then,
the more kind of days I could wrack up, it
was like, hope, one day I can be normal and
have relationships again and have like, you know, friendships and
be able to like function with people. But I can't
even handle my own self. I can't take on like
you know, they say a lot of times when you
have a concussion. One of the hardest things is relationships
(29:06):
because it requires the most of your brain because you
have to process your own emotions. Then you have to
take their emotions and the things they're sharing process that
develop your Like there's just a lot for the brain.
And so I retired from wrestling. And once I said
that I retired from wrestling, I actually felt like this
whole weight just be lifted. And I went home for
Christmas in two in that December, and my parents said,
(29:28):
we know something's not right with you. You need to
just move home and just stay with us and we'll
help you, will get you the doctors, just be around family,
and it was really healing to just be able to
be completely like broken, but just love and accepted there
and just a couple weeks later, I actually remember telling
my parents like, I'm not wrestling, but I'm still bedridden
(29:49):
day and day out, and I don't have a normal life.
And I think that with the PTSD, a lot of
the trauma did come from wrestling, and so I think
I need to go back into wrestling, not competitively, but
just to heal again. Because I didn't want to watch wrestling.
I didn't want to be on a mat if anyone
mentioned it to me, I was like anxiety attack. And
so I would go and I would drill for twenty
minutes really light, like once, you know, once a week,
(30:09):
and then twice a week, and then three times a week.
I would drill, and then I would go home and
I'd lay in bed and I'd let these anxiety attacks happened.
And I noticed that each week it was less and
less and less. So I felt like retraining my brain
that wrestling is not a place to be afraid of,
you know. And so it was really healing to now
be able to full circle and come back and have
wrestling be my this love again because I didn't want
to end it on that note, right, And then you
(30:32):
decide to get back competitively. Yeah, so yeah. About a
month in I called my coach Kalities, my sport performance coach,
and I said, hey, I have this opportunity there letting
pass A medalists wrestle off for a chance to qualify
the way the Panams Olympic qualifier. I would like to
do that, but can you just tell me it's is safe,
(30:53):
it's medically safe, like can it be done or is
it if it's risk at all to go wrestle and
compete right now. Then I'm not I won't do it,
and so you know, we worked on a plan together.
He's like, no, this can be done. And I really
thought that I was going to wrestle just to I
wanted to practice putting a single it on and making
weight and seeing how I could handle that stress. Like
I thought I was going to go lose and then
(31:14):
that's it. I would hopefully have a couple more months
to be ready for Olympic trials. And I ended up
having to wrestle off the number one at the fifty
nine weight class and the number one at the fifty
seven weight class, and I ended up winning both those matches.
So then I got to go qualify the weight for
the Olympics. And then I went and I thought I
was only going to have to wrestle two matches to qualify,
and I ended up being four. But you had no Ai,
Your anxiety was gone. I had. I had no I
(31:37):
had issues. It's like very borderline because I don't I
would never ever ever encourage anyone to wrestle with any
kind of injury, and so for me, it's like I
don't want to pretend like everything was one hundred percent okay.
It wasn't. But it's also a really delicate situation, and
I made sure to have a team of doctors and
people that would hold me accountable and help me to
process this of is this injury or is this PTSD?
(31:58):
Because one of the things with PTSD, when I got
stressed or an anxiety, my brain would give me concussion
like symptoms. So I remember getting into the elevator and
just feeling like all of a sudden, the room was
spinning or I don't know, am I really And it
felt like l I didn't hull my head, yeah, like
nothing happened, So this has to be more you know,
(32:19):
kind of psychosomatic. Right, There's a lot of psychosomatic stuff.
So I just worked through that and competing the first
tournament was really it was so I remember thinking I
might just pull out because I just don't, you know,
I don't feel right, And then over time it just
kept getting better and better, and it felt like my
brain was just like and I learned about this, you know,
(32:40):
through different therapies, was just like your threat bucket, right,
and when you get a concussion, your threshold for threat
that you can take goes extremely low. So that's why,
like you know, being under lights or having a couple
of conversations can all of a sudden seem overwhelming and
you get symptoms. But to the normal human, you can
push and ask a lot of yourself, and you're their
threshold for your threat bucket is higher. So I was
(33:02):
kind of trying to just increase my threshold and hope
that that brought on healing. One point though, because you're
saying like I couldn't even look at wrestling, I don't
want to hear it. When did you start to love
it again in this process or did you It took
a while. I think for the most part, I at
first it was just using wrestling to hopefully heal a
(33:22):
lot of symptoms and heal a lot of like the
trauma responses. And then it became like, well, I just
want to see it through because I made this commitment
to do twenty twenty four, and I would say probably
in twenty twenty one when I made the Olympic team
and I started training with my teammates again, it was
just this full healing. It's like I love these women,
I love this experience, I love getting to do life
(33:43):
with them, and they really helped me with my healing.
Just by creating this beautiful space for us to just
be with each other and push each other so and
even to this day, I think if the team dynamic
was ro off, I think I would have just retired
after twenty twenty. But I just I'm like, I'm around
great people. Why you know, I love this. I want
to keep doing it. You came all the way back
and then you meddled again, right yeah, Okay, yeah, you
(34:04):
came all the way back. So with this version of you,
you're still meddled again. Yeah, Which which you more proud of?
The gold or what you get? You get the silver,
the bronze in this of bronze bron Which you more
proud of the bronze having gone through this dark tunnel,
your unbreakable moment coming through the other side, or the gold.
I don't think I could pick one or the other
because both were really major milestones for me in that
(34:26):
time of my life. But I will say that I
really felt that I had the ability to win the
gold this time around, and you know I lost in
the Semis. No points were scored by either of us.
Is kind of rough handed out some points. But I
remember after losing in the Semis, having this insane amount
(34:47):
of peace over me, Like it was just such a
covering of peace. And I remember it was just like
in that moment, in that instant of losing, it's like
you fought so hard to get back that if you
become bitter about losing, like what were you funding to
come back from? So you can have bitterness the rest
of your life about like a career placement And it
really was. No. I'm just so happy that I got
(35:08):
to be back and I got to do it. I
love one more time, so and I've just been really
like at peace and happy with that ever since. So
here's the thing I tell all athletes is like nobody
can ever take away what you did. That's it. You
did it, that's behind your rib cage, right and that
goes on your wall with the rest of your life,
and it's something you should always be proud of. It's
not what have you done for me lately? You already
(35:29):
know the battles that you have won and been through
and these tunnels that you've come through, and that you
should you should always love yourself up. You should always
give yourself permission to love yourself up for that. That's
helpful to hear. Would you say that you find athletes
struggle with that, because I think it's really difficult. Yes.
I look, I created a charity for a col mvp
E merging vets and players because I saw once these
(35:50):
guy's uniforms came off, they were like, these football players
are like, well, I used to be this guy. I
used to be that. Like, no, motherfucker, this is like,
this is who you are. You play the NFL, not
oh man, I used to play in the NFL. Right, No,
you play in the NFL. You got there, and you
play in the NFL's not who you are. What's behind
your rib cage. You got you to beat out millions
(36:11):
and millions and millions of other kids and high school
kids and college kids to play at a level. That's
who the fuck you are. That doesn't suddenly just leave
when the uniform comes up. And too many equate their
own personal worth to that uniform instead of what got
them to have that uniform. Yeah, that's super helpful to hear,
because it's like the interesting thing is that when you're
(36:35):
still in it, it's like people can praise you or
thank you for what you're doing. But then when you're
out of it, sometimes that treatment is completely different. I
remember being like, why doesn't anyone talk about retiring Like
this is brutal, it's like and it's a bit of
a death to self and a death of your old
identity being you know, in sport for so long. But
(36:55):
also it's just you realize and this I learned to, like,
you're really replaceable to everyone but yourself. You gotta learn
how to start celebrating what you've done. That's like, you
did it. No one could take that you did it.
And it's a practice I try every every day. I
meditate on things I'm proud of in the past because
I also I beat up with myself constantly. I'm so
self loathing and so not worthy of shit and sabotage
(37:17):
all sorts of things. And so it sudden I started
doing this year after like having written this book and
doing this podcast. I then get a lot more help
but an ideas. So I work on being proud of
these things. And it doesn't mean like, oh I used
to be this or I used to do it. No
I did this. No one could take that, and no
one can take that from you at your currency forever
you did it. Oh, I like I write that down.
(37:38):
That's your currency forever. Yep. That's what do you when
you go out and speak? Now, Like, what's your message
for people? Oh? I really just answer questions or I
think my the most important thing that I want to
share is just leading with vulnerability. When I was a
little girl, I didn't have, you know, female Olympic champions
(37:59):
in the sport to look up to, because there wasn't
even an Olympics yet, and so I always tried to
look and emulate from the men, and I felt that
I just couldn't identify or relate to them. And then,
you know, even looking at women in other sports, I
feel like before social media, it was just the media
that controlled the narrative and they were always covering athletes,
you know, strengths. And I just want to share with
you know, younger athletes and people today that no one
(38:20):
has it figured out and we're all kind of journeying
through this mess and we're doing the best we can
and that's okay. And when we're you know, vulnerable with ourselves,
we can kind to ourselves. We can allow for beautiful
growth and healing to take place. It to me, being
unbreakable is not everything. That's rosy. It's something that almost
broke you but didn't when you came through the other
side of that tunnel stronger as a result, and you
(38:42):
could use that for the rest of your life. Yeah,
do you find this? Would you agree with this? That? Also,
when you get to that place where the thing feels
like it's about to break you, I think almost get
to a place where you realize it it could and
for whatever reason, if it doesn't, that's great, But it's
it's a quite easier hindsight to look back and be like, oh,
that didn't break me, But in the moment, you're like,
(39:03):
I really think this is the thing that's going to
break me. I always have had to make a decision
that's something wouldn't oh interesting. I've been on the borderline
too of like man wanting to take my life for
wanting to just been oh in the darkest places or
and I would make the decision I'm not going to
let it break me. Like I had a knew near
death experience too, like oh, okay, I'm gonna use this
(39:25):
to come through the other side of the tunnel and
use this to help more people. That was me having
a conversation with God saying Hey, I think I'm about
to come see you, and if I am, it's okay.
I love you, but I think there's more I could
do in this world. And if you give this other shot,
I promise you that I will do good things in
this world and help a lot of people. Well moment, Yeah,
(39:46):
my oxygen went from seventy two to ninety four and boom,
I kind of came back to And that was for me,
my unbreakable moment. Actually open my gym unbreakable with the
use of an oxygen attack back then, like all right,
I'm gonna do it. Started my charity right after that. Yeah,
that's wild. Oh my gosh, that's so crazy. Yeah. Yeah,
I've heard in new death experiences are messages that people
(40:08):
come back with. It's so profound. Yeah. I wasn't there
side a hospital. And it's funny because I woke up
on this gurnee and Randy coutour wrestler fight. It was
my burdens of contact that he's standing over and on
this gurnee and I wake up and I'm like, well,
if I'm dead, i ain't in heaven because his ass
wouldn't be here. Like I'm either alive or on many
(40:34):
other place so, but yeah, that that was my unbreakable
moment and for you too, like you came through the
other side of this tunnel and it's beautiful that you've
been able to overcome it and teach another but also
really know you're like these things you've overcome, those are
all gold medals. Yeah, yeah, right, those are gold medals
of life. Yeah, that definitely feels like that. I really
(40:57):
appreciate having you on. It's been amazing. Thank you. I
have an open invitation to come to Unbreakable whenever you
want whip up on my crew. You'll love it. Yes,
thank you so much. All right, Helen, I really appreciate
you joining us malkin swalk with me. Thank you so much.
Thank you,
Fox Sports Radio News
Host
Jonas Knox
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