April 12, 2023 • 25 mins
Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental health podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer. On today’s episode, one of the baddest men to ever play in the NFL, the Hall of Famer Charles Haley joins Jay for a sit-down conversation unlike any other. He shares how mental health affected him not only as a player but growing up as a kid and how everyday he lives with it. And though he may not have any regrets about his playing days, Haley has discovered a better self and is using that attitude to help others on their own journeys.
Follow, rate & review Unbreakable with Jay Glazer here!https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unbreakable-with-jay-glazer/id1641935224
#fsr #dpshow
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, this is Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health
podcast helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glazer. Welcome back to Unbreakable, a mental
health podcast with Jay Glazer. I'm your host, Jay Glazer.
And yeah, before I get into this week's guest, I'm
(00:22):
really excited to have on our book, I'm Breakable. How
I talk about depression, anxiety and a motivation and you
can't too out in paperback and if you need words,
this book gives it words to describe mental health, what depression, anxiety,
it feels like, how to you know, really lean into
your better half or your kids, understand what your kids
are going through, for you to want to explain to
(00:44):
somebody else what you're going through. I give it words
and really really layman's terms. Again, I'm not your therapist.
I'm not a doctor, I'm not clergy. I'm just a
dude who's fucked up, who's learned how to be good
with this fucked upness and trying to all get us
to walk this walk together with one big army together
because we deserved to. We deserved to, you know, know
that we're not alone out there, and there's a lot
of us together who were facing the same thing. So
(01:06):
if we know that we're in the majority, which I
think we are, we're not in the minority, it makes
it a lot easier for us to deal with. But
that I want to bring our guests in here now
for this week. And this dude is one of the
baddest motherfuckers who's ever played in the NFL. And you know,
I like to tell people that me for all the
years you know, I've been in football and fighting, people say, well,
(01:27):
Glazier's crazy. Well that's that's a badge honor in football
and fighting. I just didn't know what kind of pain
I was in. And I think that probably the same
for my guest over here. This guy was an amazing
sack master. He absolutely terrorized opposing quarterbacks, but he had
a lot of terror going inside of him as well.
With that, I'm gonna bring in the Hall of Famer
Charles Halley. How are you doing, man? Hey? What's up?
(01:50):
Thank you for having me on man? Just say is
one of the things that I take a lot of
honor and is talking about mental health and how it
affected me, not own as a player, but growing up
as a kid, and how every day. I have to
live with it. I Like I said, I people always
said to me, oh, Glazier's crazy. But when I first
(02:10):
came out with it, which is only a year and
a half ago, you know, I trained Mercedes Lewis for
years at Mix Marshal Arts and he was the first
one and called and said, but I knew you're crazy.
I didn't know what kind of pain you re in?
What's that feel like? I was diagnosed in eighty eight.
My ex wife told me that I was a man
of good pressing. But you know, you have to look
at the background. You know. Growing up as a kid,
(02:31):
I didn't have any friends. Um. And then I went
to college. Um, they used to call me doctor Jacobins
to hide, you know, Um as a black man, where
taught not to show out feelings. Sure, and and so
you know I couldn't. I didn't have anybody to talk
to because a manosed to be a man himposed to
(02:54):
cry him you know, have show weaknesses. And you know
I took that to heart and and and um, and
I was never able to really tell someone what I
was going through. Where are you finally able to well, Hey,
I finally, um came out there came out the closet
(03:14):
and and like um um, I had to go through
a lot to get there, to um get to that point.
You know, I went through drug addiction and then you
know my my ex wife, man, you know, she was
there for me, there for me until I brought drugs
into the house with little kids, and then she couldn't
take no more until we end up getting the divorce
(03:37):
from that. But she stood by me, man um. Without her,
I would not have made it through the NFL because
the demons was driving me crazy. Um and she just
she was a tough woman. Then she kept me um
grounded and enough that you know, I didn't explode and
(03:57):
destroy everything that I was trying to build. But what
was the turning point for you where you were able
to say, Okay, you know what, this isn't a sign
of weakness. I could talk about it and feel safe now.
And it makes me a tougher dude to be able
to talk about overly. Well, it happened when I went
to a due Diagno center. And then I got there
and I saw me and a lot of people, and
(04:19):
I realized that yes, I do have a mental illness.
And the moment that they got my medicine regulated. In
that center, my life changed. My mama told me that
she beat christ in to me, but one day I
was going to let him out. And in that room,
(04:39):
I pride, man, because you know what, that pain, that anger,
it was just coming out and I didn't know how
to deal with it. But thank god I I was
in a place of safety where everyone dealing with either
mental illness or drug addiction. You know, something going on.
(05:00):
But you know when you look at you know your situation.
I forgot that I was a man. I just I
just realized I'm broken. I'm fucking broken, you know, And
and how do you feel these cracks? You know, I
had blamed my mom and dad because they never I
need gratification, man, and I never got that from my parents.
(05:21):
They never said I love you, And you know, I
got a chance to really talk to them about us,
and they were the first ones that helped me get
some sanity back because you know, they told me there's
a son. We put um food on the table, you know,
and you know I was there for everything, but I
needed those words. And then, you know what, my dad
(05:43):
never talked. He called me out of the blue all
the time and say, Son, I just wanted to let
you know I'm thinking about you and I love you,
and those words man my mom the same way. Man,
I just you know, it allowed me to open up
and to be the man that I want to be,
the change that I want to see in others. That's beautiful.
(06:05):
I love that. Let me ask you this because I
kind of go back and forth on this because I
knew I needed my pain to step up at the
cage right and fight people and train all the guys
that I've trained with, and right, I needed that kind
of crazy and I kind of look back down and
I go, Man, if I had to do all over again,
what I have stayed in that kind of pain so
(06:25):
I could use it to fuel me fighting was and
I don't know the answer to that. What is your answer?
My answer is, bro, I'm the hawlk. I'm always angry,
so it didn't matter, you know what I'm saying. I
never knew how to be a friend because I never
had friends. And now now today, because of this life
(06:47):
changing moment, now I'm able to go to my teammates
and you know, the family and friends and ACTI tell
them what I regret. I don't say I'm sorry, because
that's what pawn artists do. They keep saying I'm sorry,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and then all your friends and family,
you know, they hadn't heard that before. But I go
back and try to be as detail as I can
(07:10):
about what I've done, and I asked them, don't listen
to these words. Watch my walk. I did a three sixty.
Everything that was negative, all those people I got rid of.
And that's the only way, that's the only way that
you're gonna find true freedom. You have to do a
three six. You have to get rid of all that shit.
(07:32):
And you know, all these people that was there with
you going through it, guess what they were enabling you?
So why keep them around? Were you surprised at the
reaction when you went to people and said, hey, listen,
I regret this, I regret that, and this is what
I've really been going through. A man, you know what.
It took a minute for guys. Let let that guard.
(07:55):
Damn man, because you know, I've done some dumb as
shit to people. Tell write some fuckers. Yeah, I've done
some dumb shit. You know, when I was coming in
the room, they would leave, you know, but you know,
it's just fulfilling for me to over time. It took
two or three years for guys to start being able
to laugh, joke that um, you know, to you know,
(08:19):
punch me or whatever, you know, and not worry about
Um there's angry Hawk going crazy on him. You know,
he's a dude. Now he's in a cage and I'm
never gonna let him out because unless i have to
defend myself. But other than that, I'm past that. In
my life. I call it keeping the beast in the box.
(08:41):
Yeah right, And I do whatever I can to keep
that beast of the box because it's not safe for
me or others when that beast comes out of the box.
And man, right, but sometimes I struggle. And I saw
Mike Tyson talking about it recently. He's like, man, I
try to walk, you know, working the art of humble
this now. And man, I'm trying to keep that that thing,
(09:02):
that that monster, you know, down, And sometimes I feel
like a bit funny to keep it down. Yeah, Hey,
I understand, Hey, hey, but you know what man's um.
You know what bothers me the most is, you know
is guys, you know, they try to you know, they
try to fuck with my head by telling me, Hey,
you know I looked up to you. You know, I
(09:23):
thought you was whatever. And you know what, every year
they brought in people to take my job. And you know,
and these guys, you know, they think I'm stupid enough
to really you know, they were trying to take my
job and I was going to give it to them.
And you know, the greatest thing that I ever did
was play football because I could mask all my anger,
(09:44):
all the violence, all the pain dolls going through because
you know, in the locker room on the field, you
could do anything and not go to jail. Right if
I if I wasn't playing football, I probably be in prison.
And that's the answer, ends and and butts about it.
Because I had everything that popped in my head. I did.
(10:05):
What's the greatest thing you think you did in football? Man? Hey,
I'm not gonna say, because then, um, the people I
did it too. Man, I'm trying to heal those women.
You know what I'm saying, Well, yeah, but give me
the thing that makes you most. You don't have to
name man's or whatever like, but the thing that like, man,
it's just you look back because a lot of what
I have to do after, like, think of things that
I'm proud of. To get the roommates mann to talk
(10:28):
nicely each other. Give me some of the things you're
most proud of from your playing correct days? Is there
a season? Is there? Accolades? What I'm most proud of
is Joe Mounttown and Ronne and like as the rookie.
You know, I was doing all kind of crazy shit
and Joe treated me like I was a thirty You
(10:48):
know that I've been playing with them from day one.
He made me feel so so at home. Ronnie was
my mentor. Man. He taught me the game of football.
You know, I got angry with him and tried to
hurt him, man, and he's you know what, I love
him so much. Man. You know we went, we wanted
to give shoes out. This ten year old kid changed
(11:12):
my life. He asked Ronnie, He said, miss a lot.
What makes you great? And Ronnie said, I played without fear.
And at that moment I got from under his wings
and I spread on my wings because that was when
I realized that I could unleash that giant. And Wow,
(11:33):
I didn't know how to put him back. I unleased him. Wow.
Is there anybody you ever intimidated by I was intimidated by. No,
you know what, I don't know what that word intimidation is. Man.
If the intimidator scared, I scared myself because the ship
(11:55):
that goes through my head when I when I get mad.
And I don't know how I didn't act on a
lot of it. Man, But it's just a man. You know, Hey,
I really don't know how to describe it. Man. But
I remember one day Michael Carter probably claiming the closest
to intimidating out. You know, they put me beside his locker,
(12:17):
and man, I was bouncing around, you know, manic jumping
around and everything. Because I would go either be bounced
around on top of the world or I'd be depressed
that you know, I won't talk to nobody. One day,
I'll bounced around. I was talking attracting him, and boy,
he backhand me in my chest. I thought he'd every
bone in my chest. Dog. I jumped out of there. Man,
(12:39):
you know what, I looked at that dog and I said,
I don't want no pause of that dog. Man. So yeah,
Michael Carter probably be the first one who kept you
in checking Dallas, who in check you? How you said
kind of Ronnie and Joe Montown. I kind of helped that,
kind of kept you in check a little bit. Who
who are those people in Dallas? Subscaveris I was a
(13:01):
bully when I got there. You know, they were already
a team and I was coming into something. So you
know it was my job. Man. You know, my mom said,
respect is not giving as earn. So I earned that
respect by walking out on the field and whooping their ass. Okay,
there's no ant ifs abuts about it. I let them
(13:23):
know there can only be one. There can only be one,
and I am that one. And if they want to
knock me off the top of the melt brand and
so I sat a standard of excellence that I wanted
others to follow, and I did not take anything less
than that. The only thing can conquered man is pain.
(13:46):
And you know that's what conquered me. Was at the
end of the day, the pain that I was going
through conquered me. You know, pressure made me into a dominant,
but that pain, that pain conquered me. Tell me about
your your your early days and again my depression anxiety
and now it's like an add depression anxiety by Puller
(14:07):
all that. It's my earliest childhood memory. I never I
don't ever recall not waking up, and I can describe
my like my pain. Why wake up? And it's an
everyday thing for me. I'm sure it is for you,
but I feel like it this morning. I wake up
like the sky's falling. Everybody hates me, things were against me.
How could you describe your pains as a young kid up?
(14:29):
Oh shit, hey, man, I you know what. I was
an introvert. Man. I didn't talk to anybody. I stayed
to myself. I just you know what, man, I didn't
want people to know there was a five secure old
kid inside screaming for help. So I didn't want friends
because then they're realized something is wrong. I didn't want
(14:51):
that help. I wanted to hide. I wanted to keep that,
keep that secret. And I took that kid that ain't
that kid with me from high school to college and
college into the NFL. And then I kept that same
kid and destroyed my whole relationship with my family. And
(15:13):
you know, the most important thing to me is family,
whether it's my teammates or my my biological family. And
that destroyed me the most. That's for me That was
the biggest turning point in my life where I realized
that I fucked up so bad. I fucked up so bad.
(15:33):
But then, like I said, when I got on my
knees and God told me, get up, get up, you
know you're you're my son, and I got you, you know,
I got I found new strength that day in rehab.
I found a strength that I didn't know I had.
I was so fearful of leaving the dual diagnosed center.
(16:00):
I was scared to lead because I never felt that
good before in my life. I could never look out
the window and see the trees. I just saw dirt.
I saw a little bit, and I mean my head
cleared the fall glass and I could understand the world.
And you know, today I understand my mood changes. So
(16:21):
you know, when I feel like I'm going to depression,
I'll go to gas station or whatever, and I may
come somebody's gas. I may help somebody with that gross service.
I'm like, I love, I hope to do something to
get myself out of the phone, you know. And so
the thing that people need to fucking understand is find
(16:42):
one reason to live, you know, I the thoughts of
me hurting myself. That came a lot, but you know what,
I found one thing to live for. I had nine
and nine other things to live for, but I found
one thing to live for, and that's my relationship with
Jesus Christ. I cannot have a relationship if I harm myself.
(17:03):
So that became my mantra. That's what I live for
every day, and that's what I sacrifice for. You know,
I love what you said here too, because we say
the same things but a little different words. Because you
say you saw a dirt outside, I call mine the gray.
One of the things I wrote about the book is
one of the ways through the gray is to be
of service to people. So you just said it the
(17:25):
same thing I did. You go to a guest station,
pump someone's guests, he helps someone with groceries. I want
people at home to really understand the power. That's the
power of being of service. Helps you through that dirt,
It helps you through that gray. And Charles is beautiful
that you've seen that. Man. Yeah, you know what people
they thinking me going, oh you so nice. You So
I'm going like you just don't know right. I'm doing
(17:50):
this for me. I'm doing this for me. I have
to do it. And you know, I started a foundation
to help kids with reading because you know, I was
reading three great levels behind in college. So that's also
another outlet for me, the baby, to go in and
serve and and and serving kids. So I found ways
(18:11):
to not go back into that pain area again and
know and and that's my freedom. My freedom is is
that I don't have to wake up thinking about my past.
I wake up and think about my future. And that
has been my key, that has been my battle call.
(18:33):
Have you been able to heal that little kid in you?
He's still there. He's still there. He's still he's still
roaming around. I can never get him to leave my head.
You know, he walks around there. Thank your own ship.
It's just hard to forgive some people, especially when I
was growing up. It's you know, um, it's hard for
(18:54):
me to deal with my brothers. You know, it's some
dynamics that's in my head that's keep me from I'm
taking that step of forgiveness. You know, I want people
to forgive me, but I won't forgive others. And I don't,
you know, and you know, God has keep telling me
to move my feet, to let things go. But that
(19:16):
kid that kids still gotta sits balled up and saying,
you know, fuck that, but he he needs some healing. Yeah,
you know, hey, you still got a fish balled up,
all right. And he won't allow me. He won't he
won't let he won't allow me to let go of
all the pain. So I'll give you a little story
(19:38):
that had helped me a little bit, helped me a
lot incredibly. I go to Thailand, that's like my happy
places to train, more time in the jungle, I mean,
with these monks out there. And then I go last
year they asked me to describe myself and then it
was just the worst. I'm a piece of shit on
this and that, all this stuff. He said, man, you're
you're in a lot of pain. And they said, we
want you to take the next three days and sit
(20:01):
in your pain. I said, I sit in my pain
every day. I said, no, you experience your pain every day.
And they said to me, this goes to the little
kid Charles, and they said, when you were growing up,
did you refer to yourself as Jay I said, no,
I refer to myself as Jason said. All right, what
we want you to do is sit in your pain
and look at that little hurt, little kid, little Jason,
a little hurt. We just want you to hold his
(20:23):
hand and show him some compassion because you never thought
he had. And man, Charles, it's been they said to me.
I started trying my eyes out, and it's trying to
change me. So now I sit at night and I
think about that little kid in all that pain. I
literally just put my arm around him and tell me
it's gonna be okay. So don't know if that resonates
with you, old man, but it was pretty healing for me.
(20:44):
You know, I'm go out in public, but nine percent
of my time is at home by myself. Yeah, I
just you know, I want to I want to love,
I want to trust, but that kid, and like I said,
that kid is still there. Man, Yeah, you got to
heal him, brother, got to heal him. I don't know how.
I just know how to hide with him. And I
(21:07):
do that very well at my own house and with
my dogs. You know. But maybe that's where I'm saying, like,
here's something like, hey, man, tonight, sit there, if you
look at him, for your arm around him, love him up.
It's a process, you know what I mean. But he
deserves to get loved up. We all do, right, So
maybe that's a start for him. Yeah, Yeah, that was
(21:27):
some with them right there. So I'm gonna try to
use some of it good. I like it all right.
Before I let you go here, I ask every one
of my guests this, you're unbreakable moment, something that should
have broken you and didn't and as a result, you
come to the other side of that. Told him, Well,
the unbreakable moment is it's when my drug addiction destroyed
(21:50):
my family. When I brought drugs into the thing that
that was one of the hardest situations. But the thing
that I'm near broke me was when my daughter and
leukemia and I could not do anything to help her, man.
And I tell you, man, that was the hardest. That
(22:12):
was the hardest battle I ever fought, man, because you know,
I just you know, I loved her so much, man,
and there was nothing I could do. I would go
to the hospital, they would do the spinal taps, she
would screamed, and that took me so deep into drugs
and alcohol that it should have it should have killed me.
But you know what, I came through, and she came through,
(22:35):
and we came together and that's the moment that fucked
me up, and but yet it built me into a
better man. I love that man. And look how many
people you're helping out also, Hey, just be the change
you want to see another. What do you tell players,
these young players when they come in I see down
there with the cowboys. What do you tell these chaps
when they come in to try and help them between
(22:56):
their ears? What's your advice to them? Well, I tell
him check the hell up. And you know what, you
ain't done shit. You ain't done shit. I don't want
to Hey, hey, I don't care a damn your first round.
You're making a hundred million dollars. You ain't done shit
in your life. You need to be quiet. You need
to learn, Hey, you need to learn how to be
(23:17):
a professional. Because this shit could ay, it could be
gone tomorrow. So you are to take time out to
really enjoy this moment. But I hate to shit out
of them, make them do shit? Hey, I just you know.
My thing is is that when I when I go
(23:38):
there the forty nars of the Cowboys, I just feel
like I'm at home, you know, And and I do
meet man because you know what, at the end of
the day, I'm not. I don't coach you guys. You
know I'm a teacher. I want to teach them. Hey,
look this is what I went through. You don't have
to go through it. I already been through it. And
(23:59):
then I'll guys and say, look, get your ass in
here to see this. Sive psychiatrists. Are you going in here?
And I'll grab them, take them in there because I
see me and they don't have to go through that
same pain. And I make sure I'll hold that ass accountable.
And then the dumb fuckers will come back and say, oh,
(24:19):
I'll diagnose. Should I take the medicine? This is how
dumb people are. Man, I'm like, shit, hell yeah, I
take the medicine. And everybody, you need, everybody need to
understand something. It's okay to have a mental illness, but
the moment until you say I have a mental illness,
you're not. You're not accepting that you have a mental illness.
(24:43):
And remember diabetics what they gotta do. They gotta take insolent.
Hey you gotta. Hey, so the medicine we take, it's
just like having a heart heart problem or diabetes or whatever. Hey,
I'm gonna take mine because then I gotta I gotta
fighting chance of winning this battle. Hey, I just want
to be here. I just want to be a fifty
(25:04):
to fifty every day and I'm good. I love it. Man. Hey,
you make a great point. We got nemn you. We're
taking medicine. Get ouver that pneumonia. There's no shame in it.
Same with this, make ye. Hey Charleston, I appreciate you
joining me, my brother. I appreciate you walking us, walk
together with us. Hey, stay great. I appreciate you. Hey,
and start tonight, try and heal, heal that little kid
(25:25):
in you. I'll try
Oh, this is Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health
podcast helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glazer. Welcome back to Unbreakable, a mental
health podcast with Jay Glazer. I'm your host, Jay Glazer.
And yeah, before I get into this week's guest, I'm
(00:22):
really excited to have on our book, I'm Breakable. How
I talk about depression, anxiety and a motivation and you
can't too out in paperback and if you need words,
this book gives it words to describe mental health, what depression, anxiety,
it feels like, how to you know, really lean into
your better half or your kids, understand what your kids
are going through, for you to want to explain to
(00:44):
somebody else what you're going through. I give it words
and really really layman's terms. Again, I'm not your therapist.
I'm not a doctor, I'm not clergy. I'm just a
dude who's fucked up, who's learned how to be good
with this fucked upness and trying to all get us
to walk this walk together with one big army together
because we deserved to. We deserved to, you know, know
that we're not alone out there, and there's a lot
of us together who were facing the same thing. So
(01:06):
if we know that we're in the majority, which I
think we are, we're not in the minority, it makes
it a lot easier for us to deal with. But
that I want to bring our guests in here now
for this week. And this dude is one of the
baddest motherfuckers who's ever played in the NFL. And you know,
I like to tell people that me for all the
years you know, I've been in football and fighting, people say, well,
(01:27):
Glazier's crazy. Well that's that's a badge honor in football
and fighting. I just didn't know what kind of pain
I was in. And I think that probably the same
for my guest over here. This guy was an amazing
sack master. He absolutely terrorized opposing quarterbacks, but he had
a lot of terror going inside of him as well.
With that, I'm gonna bring in the Hall of Famer
Charles Halley. How are you doing, man? Hey? What's up?
(01:50):
Thank you for having me on man? Just say is
one of the things that I take a lot of
honor and is talking about mental health and how it
affected me, not own as a player, but growing up
as a kid, and how every day. I have to
live with it. I Like I said, I people always
said to me, oh, Glazier's crazy. But when I first
(02:10):
came out with it, which is only a year and
a half ago, you know, I trained Mercedes Lewis for
years at Mix Marshal Arts and he was the first
one and called and said, but I knew you're crazy.
I didn't know what kind of pain you re in?
What's that feel like? I was diagnosed in eighty eight.
My ex wife told me that I was a man
of good pressing. But you know, you have to look
at the background. You know. Growing up as a kid,
(02:31):
I didn't have any friends. Um. And then I went
to college. Um, they used to call me doctor Jacobins
to hide, you know, Um as a black man, where
taught not to show out feelings. Sure, and and so
you know I couldn't. I didn't have anybody to talk
to because a manosed to be a man himposed to
(02:54):
cry him you know, have show weaknesses. And you know
I took that to heart and and and um, and
I was never able to really tell someone what I
was going through. Where are you finally able to well, Hey,
I finally, um came out there came out the closet
(03:14):
and and like um um, I had to go through
a lot to get there, to um get to that point.
You know, I went through drug addiction and then you
know my my ex wife, man, you know, she was
there for me, there for me until I brought drugs
into the house with little kids, and then she couldn't
take no more until we end up getting the divorce
(03:37):
from that. But she stood by me, man um. Without her,
I would not have made it through the NFL because
the demons was driving me crazy. Um and she just
she was a tough woman. Then she kept me um
grounded and enough that you know, I didn't explode and
(03:57):
destroy everything that I was trying to build. But what
was the turning point for you where you were able
to say, Okay, you know what, this isn't a sign
of weakness. I could talk about it and feel safe now.
And it makes me a tougher dude to be able
to talk about overly. Well, it happened when I went
to a due Diagno center. And then I got there
and I saw me and a lot of people, and
(04:19):
I realized that yes, I do have a mental illness.
And the moment that they got my medicine regulated. In
that center, my life changed. My mama told me that
she beat christ in to me, but one day I
was going to let him out. And in that room,
(04:39):
I pride, man, because you know what, that pain, that anger,
it was just coming out and I didn't know how
to deal with it. But thank god I I was
in a place of safety where everyone dealing with either
mental illness or drug addiction. You know, something going on.
(05:00):
But you know when you look at you know your situation.
I forgot that I was a man. I just I
just realized I'm broken. I'm fucking broken, you know, And
and how do you feel these cracks? You know, I
had blamed my mom and dad because they never I
need gratification, man, and I never got that from my parents.
(05:21):
They never said I love you, And you know, I
got a chance to really talk to them about us,
and they were the first ones that helped me get
some sanity back because you know, they told me there's
a son. We put um food on the table, you know,
and you know I was there for everything, but I
needed those words. And then, you know what, my dad
(05:43):
never talked. He called me out of the blue all
the time and say, Son, I just wanted to let
you know I'm thinking about you and I love you,
and those words man my mom the same way. Man,
I just you know, it allowed me to open up
and to be the man that I want to be,
the change that I want to see in others. That's beautiful.
(06:05):
I love that. Let me ask you this because I
kind of go back and forth on this because I
knew I needed my pain to step up at the
cage right and fight people and train all the guys
that I've trained with, and right, I needed that kind
of crazy and I kind of look back down and
I go, Man, if I had to do all over again,
what I have stayed in that kind of pain so
(06:25):
I could use it to fuel me fighting was and
I don't know the answer to that. What is your answer?
My answer is, bro, I'm the hawlk. I'm always angry,
so it didn't matter, you know what I'm saying. I
never knew how to be a friend because I never
had friends. And now now today, because of this life
(06:47):
changing moment, now I'm able to go to my teammates
and you know, the family and friends and ACTI tell
them what I regret. I don't say I'm sorry, because
that's what pawn artists do. They keep saying I'm sorry,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and then all your friends and family,
you know, they hadn't heard that before. But I go
back and try to be as detail as I can
(07:10):
about what I've done, and I asked them, don't listen
to these words. Watch my walk. I did a three sixty.
Everything that was negative, all those people I got rid of.
And that's the only way, that's the only way that
you're gonna find true freedom. You have to do a
three six. You have to get rid of all that shit.
(07:32):
And you know, all these people that was there with
you going through it, guess what they were enabling you?
So why keep them around? Were you surprised at the
reaction when you went to people and said, hey, listen,
I regret this, I regret that, and this is what
I've really been going through. A man, you know what.
It took a minute for guys. Let let that guard.
(07:55):
Damn man, because you know, I've done some dumb as
shit to people. Tell write some fuckers. Yeah, I've done
some dumb shit. You know, when I was coming in
the room, they would leave, you know, but you know,
it's just fulfilling for me to over time. It took
two or three years for guys to start being able
to laugh, joke that um, you know, to you know,
(08:19):
punch me or whatever, you know, and not worry about
Um there's angry Hawk going crazy on him. You know,
he's a dude. Now he's in a cage and I'm
never gonna let him out because unless i have to
defend myself. But other than that, I'm past that. In
my life. I call it keeping the beast in the box.
(08:41):
Yeah right, And I do whatever I can to keep
that beast of the box because it's not safe for
me or others when that beast comes out of the box.
And man, right, but sometimes I struggle. And I saw
Mike Tyson talking about it recently. He's like, man, I
try to walk, you know, working the art of humble
this now. And man, I'm trying to keep that that thing,
(09:02):
that that monster, you know, down, And sometimes I feel
like a bit funny to keep it down. Yeah, Hey,
I understand, Hey, hey, but you know what man's um.
You know what bothers me the most is, you know
is guys, you know, they try to you know, they
try to fuck with my head by telling me, Hey,
you know I looked up to you. You know, I
(09:23):
thought you was whatever. And you know what, every year
they brought in people to take my job. And you know,
and these guys, you know, they think I'm stupid enough
to really you know, they were trying to take my
job and I was going to give it to them.
And you know, the greatest thing that I ever did
was play football because I could mask all my anger,
(09:44):
all the violence, all the pain dolls going through because
you know, in the locker room on the field, you
could do anything and not go to jail. Right if
I if I wasn't playing football, I probably be in prison.
And that's the answer, ends and and butts about it.
Because I had everything that popped in my head. I did.
(10:05):
What's the greatest thing you think you did in football? Man? Hey,
I'm not gonna say, because then, um, the people I
did it too. Man, I'm trying to heal those women.
You know what I'm saying, Well, yeah, but give me
the thing that makes you most. You don't have to
name man's or whatever like, but the thing that like, man,
it's just you look back because a lot of what
I have to do after, like, think of things that
I'm proud of. To get the roommates mann to talk
(10:28):
nicely each other. Give me some of the things you're
most proud of from your playing correct days? Is there
a season? Is there? Accolades? What I'm most proud of
is Joe Mounttown and Ronne and like as the rookie.
You know, I was doing all kind of crazy shit
and Joe treated me like I was a thirty You
(10:48):
know that I've been playing with them from day one.
He made me feel so so at home. Ronnie was
my mentor. Man. He taught me the game of football.
You know, I got angry with him and tried to
hurt him, man, and he's you know what, I love
him so much. Man. You know we went, we wanted
to give shoes out. This ten year old kid changed
(11:12):
my life. He asked Ronnie, He said, miss a lot.
What makes you great? And Ronnie said, I played without fear.
And at that moment I got from under his wings
and I spread on my wings because that was when
I realized that I could unleash that giant. And Wow,
(11:33):
I didn't know how to put him back. I unleased him. Wow.
Is there anybody you ever intimidated by I was intimidated by. No,
you know what, I don't know what that word intimidation is. Man.
If the intimidator scared, I scared myself because the ship
(11:55):
that goes through my head when I when I get mad.
And I don't know how I didn't act on a
lot of it. Man, But it's just a man. You know, Hey,
I really don't know how to describe it. Man. But
I remember one day Michael Carter probably claiming the closest
to intimidating out. You know, they put me beside his locker,
(12:17):
and man, I was bouncing around, you know, manic jumping
around and everything. Because I would go either be bounced
around on top of the world or I'd be depressed
that you know, I won't talk to nobody. One day,
I'll bounced around. I was talking attracting him, and boy,
he backhand me in my chest. I thought he'd every
bone in my chest. Dog. I jumped out of there. Man,
(12:39):
you know what, I looked at that dog and I said,
I don't want no pause of that dog. Man. So yeah,
Michael Carter probably be the first one who kept you
in checking Dallas, who in check you? How you said
kind of Ronnie and Joe Montown. I kind of helped that,
kind of kept you in check a little bit. Who
who are those people in Dallas? Subscaveris I was a
(13:01):
bully when I got there. You know, they were already
a team and I was coming into something. So you
know it was my job. Man. You know, my mom said,
respect is not giving as earn. So I earned that
respect by walking out on the field and whooping their ass. Okay,
there's no ant ifs abuts about it. I let them
(13:23):
know there can only be one. There can only be one,
and I am that one. And if they want to
knock me off the top of the melt brand and
so I sat a standard of excellence that I wanted
others to follow, and I did not take anything less
than that. The only thing can conquered man is pain.
(13:46):
And you know that's what conquered me. Was at the
end of the day, the pain that I was going
through conquered me. You know, pressure made me into a dominant,
but that pain, that pain conquered me. Tell me about
your your your early days and again my depression anxiety
and now it's like an add depression anxiety by Puller
(14:07):
all that. It's my earliest childhood memory. I never I
don't ever recall not waking up, and I can describe
my like my pain. Why wake up? And it's an
everyday thing for me. I'm sure it is for you,
but I feel like it this morning. I wake up
like the sky's falling. Everybody hates me, things were against me.
How could you describe your pains as a young kid up?
(14:29):
Oh shit, hey, man, I you know what. I was
an introvert. Man. I didn't talk to anybody. I stayed
to myself. I just you know what, man, I didn't
want people to know there was a five secure old
kid inside screaming for help. So I didn't want friends
because then they're realized something is wrong. I didn't want
(14:51):
that help. I wanted to hide. I wanted to keep that,
keep that secret. And I took that kid that ain't
that kid with me from high school to college and
college into the NFL. And then I kept that same
kid and destroyed my whole relationship with my family. And
(15:13):
you know, the most important thing to me is family,
whether it's my teammates or my my biological family. And
that destroyed me the most. That's for me That was
the biggest turning point in my life where I realized
that I fucked up so bad. I fucked up so bad.
(15:33):
But then, like I said, when I got on my
knees and God told me, get up, get up, you
know you're you're my son, and I got you, you know,
I got I found new strength that day in rehab.
I found a strength that I didn't know I had.
I was so fearful of leaving the dual diagnosed center.
(16:00):
I was scared to lead because I never felt that
good before in my life. I could never look out
the window and see the trees. I just saw dirt.
I saw a little bit, and I mean my head
cleared the fall glass and I could understand the world.
And you know, today I understand my mood changes. So
(16:21):
you know, when I feel like I'm going to depression,
I'll go to gas station or whatever, and I may
come somebody's gas. I may help somebody with that gross service.
I'm like, I love, I hope to do something to
get myself out of the phone, you know. And so
the thing that people need to fucking understand is find
(16:42):
one reason to live, you know, I the thoughts of
me hurting myself. That came a lot, but you know what,
I found one thing to live for. I had nine
and nine other things to live for, but I found
one thing to live for, and that's my relationship with
Jesus Christ. I cannot have a relationship if I harm myself.
(17:03):
So that became my mantra. That's what I live for
every day, and that's what I sacrifice for. You know,
I love what you said here too, because we say
the same things but a little different words. Because you
say you saw a dirt outside, I call mine the gray.
One of the things I wrote about the book is
one of the ways through the gray is to be
of service to people. So you just said it the
(17:25):
same thing I did. You go to a guest station,
pump someone's guests, he helps someone with groceries. I want
people at home to really understand the power. That's the
power of being of service. Helps you through that dirt,
It helps you through that gray. And Charles is beautiful
that you've seen that. Man. Yeah, you know what people
they thinking me going, oh you so nice. You So
I'm going like you just don't know right. I'm doing
(17:50):
this for me. I'm doing this for me. I have
to do it. And you know, I started a foundation
to help kids with reading because you know, I was
reading three great levels behind in college. So that's also
another outlet for me, the baby, to go in and
serve and and and serving kids. So I found ways
(18:11):
to not go back into that pain area again and
know and and that's my freedom. My freedom is is
that I don't have to wake up thinking about my past.
I wake up and think about my future. And that
has been my key, that has been my battle call.
(18:33):
Have you been able to heal that little kid in you?
He's still there. He's still there. He's still he's still
roaming around. I can never get him to leave my head.
You know, he walks around there. Thank your own ship.
It's just hard to forgive some people, especially when I
was growing up. It's you know, um, it's hard for
(18:54):
me to deal with my brothers. You know, it's some
dynamics that's in my head that's keep me from I'm
taking that step of forgiveness. You know, I want people
to forgive me, but I won't forgive others. And I don't,
you know, and you know, God has keep telling me
to move my feet, to let things go. But that
(19:16):
kid that kids still gotta sits balled up and saying,
you know, fuck that, but he he needs some healing. Yeah,
you know, hey, you still got a fish balled up,
all right. And he won't allow me. He won't he
won't let he won't allow me to let go of
all the pain. So I'll give you a little story
(19:38):
that had helped me a little bit, helped me a
lot incredibly. I go to Thailand, that's like my happy
places to train, more time in the jungle, I mean,
with these monks out there. And then I go last
year they asked me to describe myself and then it
was just the worst. I'm a piece of shit on
this and that, all this stuff. He said, man, you're
you're in a lot of pain. And they said, we
want you to take the next three days and sit
(20:01):
in your pain. I said, I sit in my pain
every day. I said, no, you experience your pain every day.
And they said to me, this goes to the little
kid Charles, and they said, when you were growing up,
did you refer to yourself as Jay I said, no,
I refer to myself as Jason said. All right, what
we want you to do is sit in your pain
and look at that little hurt, little kid, little Jason,
a little hurt. We just want you to hold his
(20:23):
hand and show him some compassion because you never thought
he had. And man, Charles, it's been they said to me.
I started trying my eyes out, and it's trying to
change me. So now I sit at night and I
think about that little kid in all that pain. I
literally just put my arm around him and tell me
it's gonna be okay. So don't know if that resonates
with you, old man, but it was pretty healing for me.
(20:44):
You know, I'm go out in public, but nine percent
of my time is at home by myself. Yeah, I
just you know, I want to I want to love,
I want to trust, but that kid, and like I said,
that kid is still there. Man, Yeah, you got to
heal him, brother, got to heal him. I don't know how.
I just know how to hide with him. And I
(21:07):
do that very well at my own house and with
my dogs. You know. But maybe that's where I'm saying, like,
here's something like, hey, man, tonight, sit there, if you
look at him, for your arm around him, love him up.
It's a process, you know what I mean. But he
deserves to get loved up. We all do, right, So
maybe that's a start for him. Yeah, Yeah, that was
(21:27):
some with them right there. So I'm gonna try to
use some of it good. I like it all right.
Before I let you go here, I ask every one
of my guests this, you're unbreakable moment, something that should
have broken you and didn't and as a result, you
come to the other side of that. Told him, Well,
the unbreakable moment is it's when my drug addiction destroyed
(21:50):
my family. When I brought drugs into the thing that
that was one of the hardest situations. But the thing
that I'm near broke me was when my daughter and
leukemia and I could not do anything to help her, man.
And I tell you, man, that was the hardest. That
(22:12):
was the hardest battle I ever fought, man, because you know,
I just you know, I loved her so much, man,
and there was nothing I could do. I would go
to the hospital, they would do the spinal taps, she
would screamed, and that took me so deep into drugs
and alcohol that it should have it should have killed me.
But you know what, I came through, and she came through,
(22:35):
and we came together and that's the moment that fucked
me up, and but yet it built me into a
better man. I love that man. And look how many
people you're helping out also, Hey, just be the change
you want to see another. What do you tell players,
these young players when they come in I see down
there with the cowboys. What do you tell these chaps
when they come in to try and help them between
(22:56):
their ears? What's your advice to them? Well, I tell
him check the hell up. And you know what, you
ain't done shit. You ain't done shit. I don't want
to Hey, hey, I don't care a damn your first round.
You're making a hundred million dollars. You ain't done shit
in your life. You need to be quiet. You need
to learn, Hey, you need to learn how to be
(23:17):
a professional. Because this shit could ay, it could be
gone tomorrow. So you are to take time out to
really enjoy this moment. But I hate to shit out
of them, make them do shit? Hey, I just you know.
My thing is is that when I when I go
(23:38):
there the forty nars of the Cowboys, I just feel
like I'm at home, you know, And and I do
meet man because you know what, at the end of
the day, I'm not. I don't coach you guys. You
know I'm a teacher. I want to teach them. Hey,
look this is what I went through. You don't have
to go through it. I already been through it. And
(23:59):
then I'll guys and say, look, get your ass in
here to see this. Sive psychiatrists. Are you going in here?
And I'll grab them, take them in there because I
see me and they don't have to go through that
same pain. And I make sure I'll hold that ass accountable.
And then the dumb fuckers will come back and say, oh,
(24:19):
I'll diagnose. Should I take the medicine? This is how
dumb people are. Man, I'm like, shit, hell yeah, I
take the medicine. And everybody, you need, everybody need to
understand something. It's okay to have a mental illness, but
the moment until you say I have a mental illness,
you're not. You're not accepting that you have a mental illness.
(24:43):
And remember diabetics what they gotta do. They gotta take insolent.
Hey you gotta. Hey, so the medicine we take, it's
just like having a heart heart problem or diabetes or whatever. Hey,
I'm gonna take mine because then I gotta I gotta
fighting chance of winning this battle. Hey, I just want
to be here. I just want to be a fifty
(25:04):
to fifty every day and I'm good. I love it. Man. Hey,
you make a great point. We got nemn you. We're
taking medicine. Get ouver that pneumonia. There's no shame in it.
Same with this, make ye. Hey Charleston, I appreciate you
joining me, my brother. I appreciate you walking us, walk
together with us. Hey, stay great. I appreciate you. Hey,
and start tonight, try and heal, heal that little kid
(25:25):
in you. I'll try
Fox Sports Radio News
Host
Jonas Knox
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.