June 15, 2023 • 50 mins
The latest with Bradley Beal and his likely looming exit from Washington. The prospect of New Orleans actually trading Zion Williamson. All the transactional talk that has surfaced so quickly since the NBA Finals finished ... Chris Haynes and Marc Stein go through every bit of it for you on the latest edition of #thisleague UNCUT.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to this League Uncut in the rule.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Of twenty four hour NBA news.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
This you lo, Chris Hans, It's time, works time, It's
so time.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This League uncut is underway in on fire. This should
be a good one. Hello friends, Thursday afternoon.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
As Chris and I tape this latest edition of this
League Uncut, the finals are over. The twenty twenty two
to twenty three season is in the books. Trade season,
or at least the chatter it generates, is already underway.
The Denver Nuggets championship parade is raging right now as
(00:55):
we speak, as we tape, and we will get to
the Nuggets eventually.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We will put a bow on their title run.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
The first championship in that franchise is forty seven season
run in the NBA, and of course there were nine
glorious seasons before that in the ABA. First title in
more than fifty years for Denver. We will, I promise,
get to that. But first we got to start with
the trade chatter because it has been so aggressive already.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
You just say trade season.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Do we gotta spell that with a s ZN like
I tweeted out a couple of pieces before we started
taping this I feel a little I feel a little
too old to be saying trade season and spell it.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
S z N. If anybody can get away with it,
that's forty five and older. You can.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
You can do that, so you get I.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Don't even remember. I don't even remember forty.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Five to Nice.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
That was a long that was It was almost a
decade ago.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Nice.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Let's just jump right into it. Bradley Beal, I think
the situation is more advanced than it's been described. I
think the end is near. Bradley Beal, Damian Lillard, Draymond Green,
all drafted in twenty ten twelve, with you.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Donnis Haslam retiring.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Now, those three are tied for the third longest tenure
with one team. The only players who've been with their
teams longer the Splash Brothers Stephen Curry drafted in two
thousand and nine Klay Thompson drafted in twenty eleven. Those
are the only two players with a longer longevity run
(02:43):
than Bradley Beal in Washington, Damian Lillard in Portland, Draymond
Green yet another Warrior at this point, you know, Dame Lillard.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
His name keeps coming up.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
We have no indication yet that there's any real real
trade smoke there. But Bradley Beial to me, the trade
smoke is very, very very legit.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
What do you see?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I agree, I think you know, you look at that.
There's new regime over there. There's a new general manager
over there in charge of the basketball operations over there,
Michael Winger. So you have to understand that when changes
like that are made, oftentimes they want to establish a
new team, establish a new identity, a new culture, and
(03:30):
that often leads to personnel changes on the roster and
Bradley Bial being the main stay there. The Wizards were
not going anywhere. They haven't went anywhere in a while,
and so if that's going to be the case, I mean,
I think it's obvious to look at some form of
a rebuild and I think, well, that's not a thing.
(03:54):
Bradley Bial doesn't want to be a part of rebuild.
And thus why we're, you know, in the situation we
are now. This is the realist that has ever been
with Bradley Beal, and I think that's what needs to
be relaid out there. Like we've heard of Bradley Beal
talk over the last few years, linking him to the Lakers,
or to the Miami He you know, that's been going
(04:16):
on for the last three four years. This is as
real as it's gotten. Let me know what you think,
but Stein, I would be surprised if he's a member
of the Wizards going into next season.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Do you have that? Are you? Are you that? Do
you just feel that strongly about it as well?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I do?
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I agree with you because the crazy part about this, though,
is Bradley Beal holds pretty much all the cards, which
is makes this such a unique situation. I wish I
could remember exactly how old I was when I first
heard the term no trade clause, and it was I know,
I was pretty young because in baseball, it was it
(04:54):
was a thing, you know, I was.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Baseball was my first love, you know.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I want to say early by the early eighties, the
prospect of the no trade clause in baseball was starting
to get more prevalent. Like I said, I really should
have researched this better. It might have even been late
seventies in baseball. But in the NBA, I've written about
this a bazillion times because I've always found this a
(05:20):
pretty interesting subject. In the NBA, a no trade clause
is so hard to come by. You have to have
eight years of service time and four with the same team.
But the wrinkle that makes it tough is it can
only be in a new deal and most of the
best players in the league they do extensions. They play
out their rookie scale, play out their rookie scale deal,
(05:44):
then they do a rookie scale extension. Then you know,
they typically extend off of that. Like you have to
get all the way to unrestricted free agency to get
a no trade clause to add it into a new deal.
And that's exactly what Bradley Beal did last summer. He
went to unrestricted free agency and then sign that massive
five year, two hundred and fifty one million dollar deal
(06:06):
with the Wizards.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
And the Wizards they gave him a trade kicker fifteen percent, and.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
They gave him the no trade clause and it is
the only full no trade clause on the NBA map.
And because Ted leonsis blessed that last year, Bradley Beal
and his agent Mark Bartostein they are in control of this.
The Wizards cannot trade Bradley Beal unless he blesses it.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
And I think, as we've seen, because you know, you mentioned.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
You know, there was talk last year, will he try
to go to the Lakers? Will he try to go
to the Heat. You know, Bradley Beal has stuck with
the Wizards his whole career.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
He's not just gonna go anywhere.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
He's not just gonna say yes to the deal Washington
wants to make that might bring Washington back the most
in terms of assets. By all accounts, Miami. That is
the team that is most intriguing to Bradley Beal.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Maybe others will emerge.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
As this process goes on farther, but at this point,
it's not the Knicks. I don't think Boston or Philly.
I don't think either one of those Eastern powers is
even pursuing this. You know, Miami right now, that's the team.
And because of that no trade clause, it really puts
(07:31):
Washington in this brutal position of they're probably gonna and
you know what, whether it's Miami or someone else, even
if some other team emerges, Miami's going to have to
consider trade proposals that they probably would not have considered
because again.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Bradley Beal is the ultimate decision maker here.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I would throw Brooklyn in there as well as a
team that interesting, I could potentially get in the mix
if Bill. You know, that's again you talked on just
how scarce it is for an NBA player to have
that no trade clause. So that eliminates a lot of teams.
So I know, like fans like to you know, they
(08:13):
love rumors, they love rumors, they like nuggets, they like
the details, they like to stay on top of how
things are progressing. But with the Bill situation, we have
that no trade clause, it's going to eliminate a lot
of those potential rumors out there, and it's going it.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Could be boring. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I don't know if this is something that's going to
play out where he's linked to the Mavericks, he's linked
to here, he's linked to here there. Those reports still
may get out, but they might not hold validity because
of the power that Bill holds in it. And so
you know that that's one thing to be you know,
but I expect over the course of over the weekend
(08:53):
leading to next week, we'll see a few teams start
emerging in the Bill sweepstakes. And then we'll we also
here may start hearing about teams that Bill doesn't want
to go to as well. That can very much happen.
I remember when Anthony Davis was requested his trade in
New Orleans and.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
He didn't have no trade clause. It wasn't like that, but.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I reported it was probably a few weeks before the
trade deadline. I reported that he had no interest in
being traded to the Boston Celtics. Remember because at that
time the Celtics were in place, and so a lot
of times what that does when when the word gets
(09:40):
out that a player is not interest interested, it messes
up there and messed up their value, and then teams
start to think, well, is it worth having a is
it worth bringing a player like ad over because he
may just bounce at the end of the year, Like
it's it worth trading away all those assets for a
year rental. We've seen what happened with Toronto Fadl semi
(10:02):
worked out because they got a championship out.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Of it with with Kawhi Leonard.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
But those are things you have to weigh, and those
are the type of stories or developments that could come
out of the process of us continuing to monitor Bradley
Bill's situation.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Yeah, you said it, ad The hammer ad had was
if I get traded somewhere, I don't want to go.
I'm just going to leave in free agency at the
first opportunity. But this hammer that Beal has really is
the mightiest hammer you can have, because you know he
can block the trade. It was the end of May
(10:38):
when Washington struck the deal to hire Michael Winger to
basically take over Monumental Sports. He has oversight of both
the Wizards and the WNBA's mystics. And you know, from
that point in rival front offices, this expectation has been
building that a teardown was likely, that the Wizards were
(11:02):
gonna go on this aggressive path to remake the roster,
and obviously that starts with Bradley Beale. And look, I
think in a perfect world, the Wizards would love to
know that they could get draft picks and cap relief.
But again, because Beale holds so much sway here with
that no trade clause, it's gonna force the Wizards to
(11:25):
look at proposals that they just nor they wouldn't even
consider if they had more leverage and ability here. But
it will make it a lot easier if it would
be a lot easier if if Bradley Beal would tell
us exactly where he is or isn't willing to go.
But I'm gonna leave it to I'm gonna I'm gonna
(11:47):
leave it up to a reporter like Chris Haynes to
get to the bottom of that, which I'm actually gonna
I'm actually I'm not a betting man, but I'm gonna
bet on Haynes to be among those who among those
who very likely will figure out exactly where mister Beal does.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
And doesn't want to go.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
But it's it's funny how you said how much the
people you know love these kind of stories. Today in
Dallas we had huge news locally where Norm hitchkis, who
is an absolute institution locally. He's been on Dallas radio
for nearly fifty years. I mean, you know, he had
(12:28):
the first morning show in Dallas in terms of sports,
and one of the first in the country. I remember
seeing him on ESPN Baseball broadcast before I moved to Dallas,
and you know, I've lived here a quarter century now,
and you know he's been on the radio that whole time.
Just he's Norm Hitchkiss is a Dallas sports franchise. Onto
his unto himself when I posted my congratulatory note to
(12:52):
Norm after he announced his retirement. The first response on Twitter,
when is your next pod discussing Mavericks trade in draft chatter?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So that just tells.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
You nobody has time for Nobody has time for sentiment
right now or anything else they want.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
They want the trade talk.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
And they are quick with it. It makes me believe
that they got that in draft. So no matter what
you tweet, you could have tweeted rest in peace to somebody.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
We don't care about that. Where's where's Chris Paul going?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Don't even think about It's funny you brought him up too.
I got a call from a team today. What do
you know about Chris Paul? What is Haynes telling you
about Chris Paul?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I'm like, heyes.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
What Haines is telling me is what's on the pod.
Everything we've said on the pod. That's what I listen
to the pod. That's what I said.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
That's a good way to bring on me a star.
That's a good way.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
It works.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
But try so Look, Bradley Beal, on one hand, you
know that that it's a five year, two hundred and
fifty one million dollar deal. So look, any team that's
trading for him, you really have to do some serious
numbers crunching to fit him in because in this new CBA.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
You know, that's really my question with.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
The Heat that Okay, maybe Bradley Beal is going to
want to go to Miami, and maybe that's the direction
this is going to go. But what kind of deal
can the Heat assemble to bring in Bradley Beal as
basically your third guy? Their two main guys are going
to stay Jimmy and Bam. This is Jimmy's team and
(14:34):
Bam out of Bio with the defense he plays that
you know, the interior anchor that he is. I mean,
that's the twosomewhere it all starts. If you're bringing in
Bradley Beal at that number again in this new CBA,
it's going to be really tough to put a balanced
roster around three guys making that kind of money. So
(14:55):
to me, I do wonder is this the direction that
Miami really wants to go? And I think it is
at this point, But I throw in the disclaimer that, okay,
does someone else they like better than Bradley Beal become available?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And the natural name to throw out is Dame.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
But again, as we speak as we're recording this on
the afternoon of June fifteenth, Damian Lillard to this point
is not in trade play for Miami or anyone else.
So at this point, I do think Beal is at
the top of Miami's list, but it is fluid. Things
could change if Dame or someone else they.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Like becomes available.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
All right, let's move to the first big potential underlying
the word patental trade story that emerged.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
After the NBA Finals.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
We are as we're recording this, we're one week away
from the NBA Draft on June twenty second. New Orleans
interest in Scoot Henderson has become a significant talking point.
A lot of people around the league are buzzing about this,
and the reality is the Pelicans they have the fourteenth pick,
(16:30):
and to make sure they have a shot at Scoot Henderson,
they would need the number two pick because the Hornets,
who hold number two, are still deliberating between Scoot Henderson
and Brandon Miller, which one of those players would they draft.
If the Hornets keep the pick, they've kind of kept
the league off balance. Some days you hear it's going
(16:53):
to be Scoot. Some days you hear it's going to
be Miller. That's obviously by design. The Hornets are trying
to keep teams off balance. But the talk is, and
you know, I went into I went into this in
depth with a story on Wednesday, and based on what
I'm hearing, yes, the Pelicans are legitimately considering. Doesn't mean
(17:15):
they would one hundred percent do it, but they are
considering the prospect of trying to assemble a deal for
Charlotte's number two pick that would feature Zion Williamson. And
at first blush, you say.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Wait a minute.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
For only four years removed from Zion going number one overall,
New Orleans would actually seriously consider trading him. And again
the word I'm hearing is yes, it's something that they
are weighing. What do you see in the Fresno crystal
ball here? Could you see New Orleans actually parting with
(17:55):
Zion to get up to number two in the draft
or number three? Lynn is the other kind of variable here.
But if you trade for number three, you might not
get Scoot. Charlotte might stay on too, might hold firm
and take Scoot Henderson at number two. So look into
your crystal ball. What do you see, mister Haynes.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
I think the only way.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Well, first of all, as answer your first question, do
I think they could move Zion, Yes, I do. Giants
availability has been an issue, you know, there have been
questions about how he has how he has attacked his
several rehab stints. So you have that, and then you
just have the urgency of the Pelicans. They're trying to win,
(18:39):
They're trying to do something now. So you put all
that out there that leads me to believe. Yes, I
do agree that they would consider moving him now when
it comes to moving up to try to get scooted
unless Charlotte lets everybody knows that they're going with Brandon,
which I.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Don't think Charlotte should do. I don't think they will do.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I think you keep that very close to the Vest
to give yourself the opportunity to get the best deal possible,
to get New Orleans to want to do a deal
with you opposed to a deal with the Blazers at
number three. And so I think from New Orleans standpoint,
if they really want Scoop, they have to figure out
(19:24):
a deal to get that second pick. And that's what
I think Charlotte should hold close to the Vest and
New Orleans that they've been looking for. They've been in
need of a point guard. You know. CJ has been
playing that position, but he's more of an off guard.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And I don't know will that make New Orleans better?
You know, Scoop. Look, I had to I was invited
to Scoots.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
He had a personal workout in Atlanta last week, but
I was covering. I was covering game three or Game
four of the finals, and I couldn't make it. But
just from the video footage I watched from a couple
of his workouts, Man.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
The guy, I mean, body wise, he's NBA ready.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
You know, he's like he's really he's really a physical
specimen already. And he's played in the G League and
he's nineteen, and a lot of nineteen year olds are
not ready day one of the NBA. But the fact
that he's played against grown men already, I think that
puts him a step above probably his his counterparts. So
with that being said, if New Orleans really wants that,
(20:29):
I think they gotta go. They got a trade for
that number two pick. I don't think he can mess
around and try to wait and hope that he falls
number three and try to do some with Portland. I
think that would be a catastrophic move.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
You've always been plugged into the Scoot Henderson camp. He's
never going to admit it. They're never going to publicly say,
but just if you were surmising, will use that word
instead of speculating, would he be excited to land in
New Orleans?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You think that's something that would appeal to him?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
You know, I haven't.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I haven't spoken with him since this had this had
surface before it was just Charlotte New Orleans. And I
know he's a big Dame fan, and you know, I
think at some point Dame and Scoop might talk in
the near future, but so yeah, I haven't. I haven't
spoken to them, uh in recent days since this new
(21:25):
surface about New Orleans. So I really I don't know
how he feels about it.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
I guess so he's been He has been pretty outspoken
about the Portland thing, hasn't he like he he wants to.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
He's convinced that he can he can become that.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
If he ended up with the Blazers, that he could
play next to Dame and be an instant contributor.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
He wants he wants to play next to Dame. He
wants to play the next Dame. So you know, Dame
has a decision. You know, I know this is a
scoot New Orleans topic, but you know, Dame kind of
a nice segue into into what Dame is going to do.
He has a decision to make. Is he going to
be happy with the number three pick? The players also
(22:06):
have believe that twenty third pick as well. So it's
like Portland they can do a few things like if
they keep the number three, if Dame feels good about
the possibility of him and Scoop being able to work together,
and he thinks that, you know, Scoop can take help
take this team to the next level, then there's other
packages that Portland could look into trading the number twenty
(22:27):
three pick along with we've been hearing you know, Athrety
Simon's name being available.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Does Simons in the number twenty three get you.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
A good quality starter waterline all star player?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Does it? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And so Portland has a lot They got a lot.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Of decisions to weigh.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
But as it pertains the Scoop, you know, he believes
he's ready day one, he believes he's prepared, he believes
he's yeah, very confident he believes he's prepared more than
anybody in this draft class. And so for New Orleans standpoint,
that bodes well for them if they're able to make
that happen.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
The thing is with Zion, so let's transition to Zion.
Thing with Zion.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
One thing teams are telling me is that no doubt,
when Zion is healthy, he's a specimen.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
He's unstoppable.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know, the sheer force that he provides in that
painted area and on an office and end, he just
overpowers everyone. But one thing teams want to see is
his medicals. That is going to be very very important.
Teams getting to look at his medicals and then deciding
from there what to do. I don't know what those
(23:43):
medicals look like. I don't know the story that that's
going to tell. But if these trades talks pretended to Zion,
I'm not saying the trade talks because it's just this
is right now, is just New Orleans would consider. But
if it gets really serious, teams are going to have
to look at the medicals, and then from there. Once
(24:06):
one team looks at the medicals, and if say, for example,
say the medicals they're bad, They just do not look good.
It's going to get out there, and then that's going
to mess up the trade value for the Pelicans in
general as it pertains to Zion Williamson. So that's that's
like steps further down the road if we get to it.
I'm just trying to give fans a little peek inside
(24:28):
how these things work.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, look, I get the question.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
So many of my readers on my substack have been
asking me to try to gauge Zion's value, and it's
really hard to do that because, yes, you know, like
you said, you just look at the pure numbers. When
Zion's on the floor, he averages twenty six on nearly
sixty one percent shooting from the field. I mean, you
can't be more efficient offensively than he is.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
You know, his rebounding, to me, that's.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Always been an area that he needs to, you know,
deliver more. That's an area where he can certainly improve.
But we also saw in New Orleans early this season
when he was rolling and the Pelicans were rolling that
you know, he can play make too, So I mean,
he has considerable offensive gifts. But then there's just no
(25:18):
way to get around the fact he's only played in
one hundred and fourteen out of three hundred eight possible
regular season games.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
There's just no way to dodge that.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
And the two main things I can add the reason
why this is a consideration for New Orleans, why they
are weighing the prospect of trading Zion Williamson after just
four years together. You know, as one trusted league observer
put it to me, there is a rising level of
(25:49):
exasperation within the Pells organization about those availability issues, about
the way he.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Has approached the game. But the other thing, and this
is this is just as significant.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
It really appears that if the Pels were forced to
consider trading Zion or trading Brandon Ingram, they're much more
apt to trade Zion at this point that Ingram has
reached a level in that organization where he is considered
the safer from a trade when looking at those two guys.
(26:24):
So those are two significant developments. And look, we've spent
the first half hour of this pod. You know, the
season has been over for minutes, and again the championship
parade is going on as we're recording this, and already
Zion Williamson Bradley Beal in potential trades.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I think that speaks to what.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Kind of off season in terms of player movement we
are likely in for. It is not a stellar free
agent class. Spending money for free agency is very limited.
It's only a few teams that have significant cap space,
and they're not contending teams. So I don't know what
we're gonna get in terms of free agent fireworks. But
(27:08):
the prospect of trades connected to next week's draft, right
after next week's draft, before the NBA calendar year moves
to twenty twenty three to twenty four, and even in July, trades, trades, trades,
I think we're going to see a fair few, so
buckle up for that. Lastly, mister Haynes, I think we
(27:46):
need to dedicate this edition of This League Uncut and friends.
As always, remember please rate, review, and subscribe to the
show via Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Or wherever you get your pods. Please do that for us.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
But this episode, it must be it must be said.
We're doing this with a serious hat tip to the
Denver Nuggets, the NBA's new champions, first time champions. The
last time we did a pod, it was with the
series score at three to one, a very very unsightly
(28:26):
Game five, Miami mucked the game up, mucked with an
m just as they would have wanted to, made it ugly,
made it messy. Denver still finds a way, finishes the
series off. Nikola Jokic NBA Finals MVP in an eleven
(28:48):
zero runaway in that vote no MVP debate in the finals,
and man, all I can say is, you tricked us, Denver.
You tricked me. That seven and ten finished to the
regular season. I paid way too much attention to it.
(29:11):
It made me question whether the Nuggets were truly ready
for a playoff run.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
It was all a ruse.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
They mowed through the postseason sixteen and four, and critics
will say, yeah, you know, they didn't play a top
three seed, which has never happened in the you know,
in the in the sixteen team playoff era, and this
was year forty of that playoff era, and somehow they
didn't play a number one seed along the way. But
(29:41):
you know, this was a this was a season I
think you got to somewhat throw the seedings out. The
Lakers made it to the conference finals as a number seven,
but they were not a number seven, and they took
out the defending champion Warriors to get to the West Finals.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And Miami.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
We can't look at them as your usual number eight
after what they did to fifty eight win Milwaukee and
fifty seven win Boston. So you know, downgrade the Nuggets
championship if you want because you think they didn't see
enough powerhouses on the way. But come on, man, Nikola
Jokic age twenty eight, first player in NBA Playoff history
(30:21):
to lead all players total points, six hundred, total rebounds,
two hundred and sixty nine total assists one hundred and ninety.
Incredible coronation for the Nuggets, and they shut a lot
of people up. And again, as we're taping this, the
parade is going on, and I'm seeing tweets while we
(30:43):
record about wow Jokic with some curse action.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Here, Nikola Jokic said to the.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Roar of five hundred thousand plus fans in Denver, this
is a tweet from our buddy Mark Spears.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Quote.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
I told them I didn't want to stay for the parade,
but I bleeping want to stay for the parade.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
This is the best. This is amazing. So there you go.
Loves parades. Michael Malone's been talking smack all day.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Long, rightfully, so rightfully, so I told you start our
last part.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I said, listen, we're going to the next pot.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
We're gonna we're gonna be congratulating the Dinner Nuggets, congratulating
Joker on winning Finals MVP, and you know they're gonna
wrap it up in five, and they did. I didn't
see anything left in Miami covering that series. I felt
like the Miami Heat they emptied their clip, as small
(31:48):
as a clip that they were dealing with.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
It was empty. They'd have nothing left.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
And Denver was just too much depth, too much talent,
and Miami Heat worked hard, they worked their butts off,
and that's probably one of the most hard hardest working
teams in the league, especially the most hardest working team
in the playoffs, and I think that got them to
this point. But at the end of the day, when
you're the two last two teams standing, it's going to
(32:16):
take hard work and it's going to take some talent
and depth, and they just didn't have the latter two
to be able to extend this series out. And so
Denver Nuggets, may you credit them. I've been seeing like
people try to discredit the Nuggets run or diminished or
the value the competition they had or to run.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
All you can do is play the opponent that you're giving.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
You know that that opponent they had a path, They
had to get through some obstacles to get to that point.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I think it's weak to try to devalue the Nuggets championship.
They are champions.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
They were the best team. They were the best team
in the regular season all season long. They respected the
course of the regular season. They were not about all
this low management stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
They went in and they had.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
A plan and they executed, and so I applaud them.
They were a fun team to watch. I hope people
got got a chance to really see how valuable the
Kolaki is. You know, that is a He's a great,
great player that you should already have amongst the top
centers of all time already. I'm gonna let you say something,
(33:23):
but I want to ask you about later about the
all time great sinners. And I want to see if
you agree with me or not. This is a conversation
I was having with my brother a few days ago.
But what do you think about the dinner Nuggets run?
Speaker 4 (33:37):
When you really look at it, The signals were there,
and again, I you know, I put myself high on
the list when they wobbled at the end of the
regular season seven to ten finish, I did start to
ask those questions again about these guys.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
But the truth is, you.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Know, they took sole possession a first place in the
way on January seventeenth. They never relinquished it, So they
basically were the top seed in the West for three
months before the playoffs started, and that enabled them to
you know, that certainly contributed to that kind of wobble
(34:16):
at the end. They maybe lost some focus because they
knew they had the West wrapped up, but they mowed
through the four teams in front of them. I really
feel like Miami the crusher for them. What any chance
they had of winning the finals was lost when they
got dragged to seven games by Boston. You go up
(34:37):
three to zero on Boston, Finish them off in four,
finish them off in five.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
At worst, finish them off in six.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
If Miami does any of that, any one of those
three options, the Heat can go to Denver early before
the finals, get acclimated to the altitude, give themselves a
better foothold in the series. They still won Game two
as it is, but yeah, I mean the only game
they won they shot nearly forty nine percent from three
(35:07):
the four games they lost, they were sub thirty five
percent from three in all four defeats. So the Nuggets
earned every bit of this championship. Jokic was great, Murray
was great, all the others were great. I mean, they
had the best team and were trying to tell us that.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Again, they tried to show they were.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
They gave us a lot of hits for three months
before the playoffs, and we just didn't want to see him.
And you know, now we'll see in this wild offseason
who can close the gap because Denver, Okay, Bruce Brown,
they're in danger of not being able to re sign him.
But you know already you're hearing people kind of compare
it to the Bobby Porter situation. Will Bruce Brown elect
(35:54):
to stay with the Nuggets for possibly less money.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Than he could make on the open market.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Because he loves the situation so much, just like Bobby
Ports did in staying with the Bucks after they won
it all. But you know, most likely Brown would be
the only key departure from that team. So there's a
lot of work for a lot of teams.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
To do in the West just to close the gap.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
So man is it going to be a wild and
crazy and busy offseason, these nests again.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
You know, maybe I hope I'm not jinxing it with
all this hype.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
I really hope I'm not, But I don't think I am.
I think we are going to see many, many, many trades.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Stan question I have for you, now go for it already.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
We're just talking about what Nikola Jokis has done to
this point, and then you know what we think he's
going to continue to do for however many.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
Years as of now, has he corracked your all time
top six center category?
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Has he coracked it? So?
Speaker 4 (37:09):
The five ahead of him are Kareem Russell, Wilt Shack.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Who am I leaving out?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
I put a lodge one in there? Yep, that's five.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
I'll put it like this. He's absolutely an all time
great to me. And the only reason you could even
say that he wouldn't be is because he's only won
one title. You know, he's won for one in the finals.
Let's see how many titles he ends up with. But
you know what I feel even stronger about is it
really bothered me that he wasn't in the top seventy five.
(37:45):
I mean, he to me, I was not an official
voter on the top seventy five, but to me, even
at that point, he should have been a top seventy
five player. And you know, he has a tru tremendous
chance to ultimately crack the top five. You know, I
guess we consider dunking a power for it rather than
(38:07):
a center.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
But there's no question. I mean, this guy is an all.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Time great and he has nothing to prove to nobody
at this point.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Okay, STEI, I maybe taking another I maybe taking it
to a controversial place, but we do that here in
this league, and this this is a podcast we could
believe if we could erase it if we want to.
So let's act now and worry about the consequences later.
All right, Stey Bill Russell? What the greatest winners of
(38:39):
all time? Why is he a top five sinner of
all time? Take winning out of it.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
I think defensively, he was such a game changer that
he would you know, offensively, you know, all those centers
you named have better offensive credentials. But it's not just
the winning with Russell, it is the defense. Block Shots
(39:06):
weren't even a thing when he played, or when Wilt played,
so It's like, we don't really have the raw statistical
data to tell us how great these guys are, and
we don't have the footage. This has always been one
of my major, major complaints and laments about being an
NBA fan and trying to be an NBA historian. Baseball
(39:28):
was my first love. That was the first sport I
was really introduced to. And what but like even at
a young age, like you know, you're not even ten
years old, and you know about Babe Ruth and lou
Gerrig and Ty Cobb and Bob Gibson and on and on.
You know, I mean, I could name a zillion guys.
You learn these stories as a baseball fan when you're
so young. But in basketball, pardon me if I've told
(39:51):
this story before, but it's important. I feel like, you know,
I can't tell it enough. When I started covering the
LA Clippers halfway through the ninety four season, Elgin Baylor
was the general manager of the Clippers, and I remember
the first extended conversation I had with Elgin and I said,
(40:12):
I can't believe I've never really.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Seen footage of you playing. You know.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
He retired during that amazing Lakers early in that amazing
Lakers season when they won thirty three games in a
row and won the title in seventy one seventy two.
So I was only two or three. I never got
to see Elgin Baylor play. And when I told the
Clippers that a team official with the Clippers actually went
(40:37):
to the league and paid NBA Entertainment to make like
a forty five minute VHS tape of Elgin highlights. And
I didn't get to keep the tape. I don't have
it anymore, but they let me borrow it and watch it,
which was so cool to see just what was in
the vault at the league. Because again, this stuff, it's
(41:00):
we don't we do. It's such a bad job with
NBA history. So like Bill Russell Wilt like, we've seen nothing,
you know, my age or your age, We've seen nothing
from what these.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Guys could really do.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
So the number of rings Bill Russell has, you just
you cannot diminish it.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
You know, I love a cheme too.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
I would say if Jok isn't there already, that he
will pass a keem. But I see a lot of
our contemporaries they rate a cheme higher than I do.
So again it's also Iya the Beholder stuff too.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
We have to remember Hakm was first of all, probably
had the best foot work it that of a big
forget big, just best footwork period as a basketball player.
Even still to this day, I don't know, I don't
see anybody who has the pivots like Hakm did, Kobe,
Michael Jordan, they were, they were close. But the thing
(41:54):
about Hakim he was dominant offensively, but he was dominant
deficively too. I still, uh, you know, I still got
ha Keen higher than Joker right now. But back to
Bill Russell Stein, you know the King Baby Tumble was
just defense. Alonzo Morning earlier, his earlier in his years
(42:16):
was a two way player, then transition to just being
a defensive player. But for a center, Bill Russell, I believe,
I mean, look this up because I want I want
to have it accurately. You know, the big man position.
Usually for centers, they average a field goal percentage career
of fifty or higher. Do you know what Bill Russell's
(42:38):
field goal percentage is for his career?
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Not off the top of my head, hit me.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
His field goal percentage for his career is, drum roll,
forty four percent from the field. Bill Russell was sixteen
sixty ten center, which you know that was that was
center size back those days. That does like that doesn't
(43:03):
do anything.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
No, it doesn't change.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
It doesn't change my feeling one ounce, because I think
field goal percentages were generally way lower.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
In those days than they are now.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
But but not just he was just not just that.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
Justin Kubatko, who does a wonderful substack called Statitudes. Justin
is one of my favorite NBA historians and researchers and
just fantastic with the numbers in the history of the game.
Before the finals, he went back and did a piece.
You know, the final NBA Finals MVP didn't start until
(43:48):
I believe nineteen sixty nine, so there were many many
years that the NBA didn't even do a Finals MVP.
Justin did a piece and went back and awarded the
finals that the mythical Finals MVP, who his numbers said
should have won the award all those years that the
league didn't hand out a Finals MVP trophy, and by
(44:13):
Justin's very unofficial count, but I take it as pretty
reliable that Russell would have won the Finals MVP six times.
So there's a reason why the Finals MVP Trophy is
now named the Bill Russell NBA Finals MVP Trophy because
the man was an undeniable.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Winner, game changer. And you know what, for me, whenever I.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
Think about top ten, top five, top twenty, whatever it is,
I do think the off court stuff does matter. And
his impact on a social scale was so tremendous. I
do think that factors in, even though it's not an
on court things. It's like it's like Alan Iverson. You know,
(45:02):
we could really analyze Alan Iverson's efficiency and we can
theoretically grade him down as an all time great because
of efficiency issues. But the cultural impact that Alan Iverson had,
to me, that is worth bonus points. He never won
a championship, he got the phil he got Philly to
one finals, but his popularity and cultural impact, I do
(45:26):
factor that in when I'm assessing Alan Iverson's career resume,
and I think with Bill Russell, it's got a factor in.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Also, I'm not even gonna argue with you, because this
is Bill Russell we're talking about. You can never win
a situation, You could never win an argument if people
perceive you to be diminishing Bill Russell's legacy at all.
So I'm gonna leave it there, but that I remember,
I remember when I found that stat out was.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Like forty from the field sixteen center.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Well, you know what's funny, because it's that you bring
that up, because when I did my I was not
a voter on the top seventy five, and I actually
regret it now. Like in my New York Times years,
I was at the Times for three and a half years.
At the Times, we were not allowed to vote on
anything official with the league because the Times philosophy was
(46:19):
we cover the story, we don't participate in making the news.
And so when I started my own sub stack in
July of twenty twenty one, I'm coming up on my
two year anniversary here, I adopted the same policy and
I basically said, I'm gonna I'm no longer going to
vote on any NBA awards. The league asked me to
come back and be a voter, I said no, I'm
not going to do it. But when they asked me
(46:41):
to do top seventy five, I said no, and I
really regretted it because I do love the history of
the game, and that is one vote that I really
do now wish I had broken my own rule. To
be a part of, and my seventy five ended up
being very different from the ultimate seventy five. I remember
I left off Dolph Shase, who was one of the
(47:04):
initial greats in the league in the very very pre
Russell stages of the NBA. And I had some very
prominent NBA historians come at me and just crush me
for saying, how could you not have dolphshes in your
top seventy five? And I omitted Dolph Shase in large
(47:26):
part because I did look at his field goal percentage,
and I'm pretty sure his career field goal.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Percentage is sub forty.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
So that's why I say, in those days, even big
men didn't you know, there were no zions converting at
sixty percent in the early days of the NBA.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
So maybe I was too hard on Dolph Shase.
Speaker 4 (47:47):
And now that's kind of entering my thinking here when
you bring up mister Russell's field goal percentage.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Okay, that's why.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
That's why I'm glad I'm speaking to an NBA historian,
somebody who's coverly way further than you know, way earlier
than I was, So I'll respect it.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Respect all right, everybody that was not that was not
a Laane.
Speaker 4 (48:07):
I expected us to go on Trade Talk Thursday, But
there you go. We'ved in some history, we'ved in some
Denver Nuggets championship celebrations. But yes, at the forefront, Bradley
Beal is this It is Washington finally going to trade him? Well,
(48:28):
the Pelicans actually trade Zion Williamson in connection with.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
The NBA Draft. Major, major questions to ponder.
Speaker 4 (48:39):
Chris and I will be back with you soon, and
by the next time we get together for one of
these there will no doubt.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Be tons more.
Speaker 4 (48:48):
Transactional discussion to get into because the transaction game has
fully taken over from the games themselves. For the next
two three weeks at least, Summer League isn't too far
in the distance. Chris Haynes and I will both be
(49:09):
in Las Vegas. We got a surprise in Vegas that
we're working on. Can't reveal it yet, but I promise
it will not disappoint. That does it for this edition
of This League Uncut Friends again, Please rate, review, subscribe
to the pod so the gems that mister Haynes loves
(49:30):
to reveal on this show comes straight.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
To your phone. That does it? Back again? Soon everybody
enjoy all the transaction of talk out and that'll do
it for us. See you next time. This league uncut
it is and iHeartRadio production Chris Haynes and Mark stime
Speaker 1 (50:01):
I
Welcome to this League Uncut in the rule.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Of twenty four hour NBA news.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
This you lo, Chris Hans, It's time, works time, It's
so time.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This League uncut is underway in on fire. This should
be a good one. Hello friends, Thursday afternoon.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
As Chris and I tape this latest edition of this
League Uncut, the finals are over. The twenty twenty two
to twenty three season is in the books. Trade season,
or at least the chatter it generates, is already underway.
The Denver Nuggets championship parade is raging right now as
(00:55):
we speak, as we tape, and we will get to
the Nuggets eventually.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We will put a bow on their title run.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
The first championship in that franchise is forty seven season
run in the NBA, and of course there were nine
glorious seasons before that in the ABA. First title in
more than fifty years for Denver. We will, I promise,
get to that. But first we got to start with
the trade chatter because it has been so aggressive already.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
You just say trade season.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Do we gotta spell that with a s ZN like
I tweeted out a couple of pieces before we started
taping this I feel a little I feel a little
too old to be saying trade season and spell it.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
S z N. If anybody can get away with it,
that's forty five and older. You can.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
You can do that, so you get I.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Don't even remember. I don't even remember forty.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Five to Nice.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
That was a long that was It was almost a
decade ago.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Nice.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Let's just jump right into it. Bradley Beal, I think
the situation is more advanced than it's been described. I
think the end is near. Bradley Beal, Damian Lillard, Draymond Green,
all drafted in twenty ten twelve, with you.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Donnis Haslam retiring.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Now, those three are tied for the third longest tenure
with one team. The only players who've been with their
teams longer the Splash Brothers Stephen Curry drafted in two
thousand and nine Klay Thompson drafted in twenty eleven. Those
are the only two players with a longer longevity run
(02:43):
than Bradley Beal in Washington, Damian Lillard in Portland, Draymond
Green yet another Warrior at this point, you know, Dame Lillard.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
His name keeps coming up.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
We have no indication yet that there's any real real
trade smoke there. But Bradley Beial to me, the trade
smoke is very, very very legit.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
What do you see?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I agree, I think you know, you look at that.
There's new regime over there. There's a new general manager
over there in charge of the basketball operations over there,
Michael Winger. So you have to understand that when changes
like that are made, oftentimes they want to establish a
new team, establish a new identity, a new culture, and
(03:30):
that often leads to personnel changes on the roster and
Bradley Bial being the main stay there. The Wizards were
not going anywhere. They haven't went anywhere in a while,
and so if that's going to be the case, I mean,
I think it's obvious to look at some form of
a rebuild and I think, well, that's not a thing.
(03:54):
Bradley Bial doesn't want to be a part of rebuild.
And thus why we're, you know, in the situation we
are now. This is the realist that has ever been
with Bradley Beal, and I think that's what needs to
be relaid out there. Like we've heard of Bradley Beal
talk over the last few years, linking him to the Lakers,
or to the Miami He you know, that's been going
(04:16):
on for the last three four years. This is as
real as it's gotten. Let me know what you think,
but Stein, I would be surprised if he's a member
of the Wizards going into next season.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Do you have that? Are you? Are you that? Do
you just feel that strongly about it as well?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I do?
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I agree with you because the crazy part about this, though,
is Bradley Beal holds pretty much all the cards, which
is makes this such a unique situation. I wish I
could remember exactly how old I was when I first
heard the term no trade clause, and it was I know,
I was pretty young because in baseball, it was it
(04:54):
was a thing, you know, I was.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Baseball was my first love, you know.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I want to say early by the early eighties, the
prospect of the no trade clause in baseball was starting
to get more prevalent. Like I said, I really should
have researched this better. It might have even been late
seventies in baseball. But in the NBA, I've written about
this a bazillion times because I've always found this a
(05:20):
pretty interesting subject. In the NBA, a no trade clause
is so hard to come by. You have to have
eight years of service time and four with the same team.
But the wrinkle that makes it tough is it can
only be in a new deal and most of the
best players in the league they do extensions. They play
out their rookie scale, play out their rookie scale deal,
(05:44):
then they do a rookie scale extension. Then you know,
they typically extend off of that. Like you have to
get all the way to unrestricted free agency to get
a no trade clause to add it into a new deal.
And that's exactly what Bradley Beal did last summer. He
went to unrestricted free agency and then sign that massive
five year, two hundred and fifty one million dollar deal
(06:06):
with the Wizards.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
And the Wizards they gave him a trade kicker fifteen percent, and.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
They gave him the no trade clause and it is
the only full no trade clause on the NBA map.
And because Ted leonsis blessed that last year, Bradley Beal
and his agent Mark Bartostein they are in control of this.
The Wizards cannot trade Bradley Beal unless he blesses it.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
And I think, as we've seen, because you know, you mentioned.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
You know, there was talk last year, will he try
to go to the Lakers? Will he try to go
to the Heat. You know, Bradley Beal has stuck with
the Wizards his whole career.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
He's not just gonna go anywhere.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
He's not just gonna say yes to the deal Washington
wants to make that might bring Washington back the most
in terms of assets. By all accounts, Miami. That is
the team that is most intriguing to Bradley Beal.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Maybe others will emerge.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
As this process goes on farther, but at this point,
it's not the Knicks. I don't think Boston or Philly.
I don't think either one of those Eastern powers is
even pursuing this. You know, Miami right now, that's the team.
And because of that no trade clause, it really puts
(07:31):
Washington in this brutal position of they're probably gonna and
you know what, whether it's Miami or someone else, even
if some other team emerges, Miami's going to have to
consider trade proposals that they probably would not have considered
because again.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Bradley Beal is the ultimate decision maker here.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I would throw Brooklyn in there as well as a
team that interesting, I could potentially get in the mix
if Bill. You know, that's again you talked on just
how scarce it is for an NBA player to have
that no trade clause. So that eliminates a lot of teams.
So I know, like fans like to you know, they
(08:13):
love rumors, they love rumors, they like nuggets, they like
the details, they like to stay on top of how
things are progressing. But with the Bill situation, we have
that no trade clause, it's going to eliminate a lot
of those potential rumors out there, and it's going it.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Could be boring. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I don't know if this is something that's going to
play out where he's linked to the Mavericks, he's linked
to here, he's linked to here there. Those reports still
may get out, but they might not hold validity because
of the power that Bill holds in it. And so
you know that that's one thing to be you know,
but I expect over the course of over the weekend
(08:53):
leading to next week, we'll see a few teams start
emerging in the Bill sweepstakes. And then we'll we also
here may start hearing about teams that Bill doesn't want
to go to as well. That can very much happen.
I remember when Anthony Davis was requested his trade in
New Orleans and.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
He didn't have no trade clause. It wasn't like that, but.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I reported it was probably a few weeks before the
trade deadline. I reported that he had no interest in
being traded to the Boston Celtics. Remember because at that
time the Celtics were in place, and so a lot
of times what that does when when the word gets
(09:40):
out that a player is not interest interested, it messes
up there and messed up their value, and then teams
start to think, well, is it worth having a is
it worth bringing a player like ad over because he
may just bounce at the end of the year, Like
it's it worth trading away all those assets for a
year rental. We've seen what happened with Toronto Fadl semi
(10:02):
worked out because they got a championship out.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Of it with with Kawhi Leonard.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
But those are things you have to weigh, and those
are the type of stories or developments that could come
out of the process of us continuing to monitor Bradley
Bill's situation.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Yeah, you said it, ad The hammer ad had was
if I get traded somewhere, I don't want to go.
I'm just going to leave in free agency at the
first opportunity. But this hammer that Beal has really is
the mightiest hammer you can have, because you know he
can block the trade. It was the end of May
(10:38):
when Washington struck the deal to hire Michael Winger to
basically take over Monumental Sports. He has oversight of both
the Wizards and the WNBA's mystics. And you know, from
that point in rival front offices, this expectation has been
building that a teardown was likely, that the Wizards were
(11:02):
gonna go on this aggressive path to remake the roster,
and obviously that starts with Bradley Beale. And look, I
think in a perfect world, the Wizards would love to
know that they could get draft picks and cap relief.
But again, because Beale holds so much sway here with
that no trade clause, it's gonna force the Wizards to
(11:25):
look at proposals that they just nor they wouldn't even
consider if they had more leverage and ability here. But
it will make it a lot easier if it would
be a lot easier if if Bradley Beal would tell
us exactly where he is or isn't willing to go.
But I'm gonna leave it to I'm gonna I'm gonna
(11:47):
leave it up to a reporter like Chris Haynes to
get to the bottom of that, which I'm actually gonna
I'm actually I'm not a betting man, but I'm gonna
bet on Haynes to be among those who among those
who very likely will figure out exactly where mister Beal does.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
And doesn't want to go.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
But it's it's funny how you said how much the
people you know love these kind of stories. Today in
Dallas we had huge news locally where Norm hitchkis, who
is an absolute institution locally. He's been on Dallas radio
for nearly fifty years. I mean, you know, he had
(12:28):
the first morning show in Dallas in terms of sports,
and one of the first in the country. I remember
seeing him on ESPN Baseball broadcast before I moved to Dallas,
and you know, I've lived here a quarter century now,
and you know he's been on the radio that whole time.
Just he's Norm Hitchkiss is a Dallas sports franchise. Onto
his unto himself when I posted my congratulatory note to
(12:52):
Norm after he announced his retirement. The first response on Twitter,
when is your next pod discussing Mavericks trade in draft chatter?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So that just tells.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
You nobody has time for Nobody has time for sentiment
right now or anything else they want.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
They want the trade talk.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
And they are quick with it. It makes me believe
that they got that in draft. So no matter what
you tweet, you could have tweeted rest in peace to somebody.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
We don't care about that. Where's where's Chris Paul going?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Don't even think about It's funny you brought him up too.
I got a call from a team today. What do
you know about Chris Paul? What is Haynes telling you
about Chris Paul?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I'm like, heyes.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
What Haines is telling me is what's on the pod.
Everything we've said on the pod. That's what I listen
to the pod. That's what I said.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
That's a good way to bring on me a star.
That's a good way.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
It works.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
But try so Look, Bradley Beal, on one hand, you
know that that it's a five year, two hundred and
fifty one million dollar deal. So look, any team that's
trading for him, you really have to do some serious
numbers crunching to fit him in because in this new CBA.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
You know, that's really my question with.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
The Heat that Okay, maybe Bradley Beal is going to
want to go to Miami, and maybe that's the direction
this is going to go. But what kind of deal
can the Heat assemble to bring in Bradley Beal as
basically your third guy? Their two main guys are going
to stay Jimmy and Bam. This is Jimmy's team and
(14:34):
Bam out of Bio with the defense he plays that
you know, the interior anchor that he is. I mean,
that's the twosomewhere it all starts. If you're bringing in
Bradley Beal at that number again in this new CBA,
it's going to be really tough to put a balanced
roster around three guys making that kind of money. So
(14:55):
to me, I do wonder is this the direction that
Miami really wants to go? And I think it is
at this point, But I throw in the disclaimer that, okay,
does someone else they like better than Bradley Beal become available?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And the natural name to throw out is Dame.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
But again, as we speak as we're recording this on
the afternoon of June fifteenth, Damian Lillard to this point
is not in trade play for Miami or anyone else.
So at this point, I do think Beal is at
the top of Miami's list, but it is fluid. Things
could change if Dame or someone else they.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Like becomes available.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
All right, let's move to the first big potential underlying
the word patental trade story that emerged.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
After the NBA Finals.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
We are as we're recording this, we're one week away
from the NBA Draft on June twenty second. New Orleans
interest in Scoot Henderson has become a significant talking point.
A lot of people around the league are buzzing about this,
and the reality is the Pelicans they have the fourteenth pick,
(16:30):
and to make sure they have a shot at Scoot Henderson,
they would need the number two pick because the Hornets,
who hold number two, are still deliberating between Scoot Henderson
and Brandon Miller, which one of those players would they draft.
If the Hornets keep the pick, they've kind of kept
the league off balance. Some days you hear it's going
(16:53):
to be Scoot. Some days you hear it's going to
be Miller. That's obviously by design. The Hornets are trying
to keep teams off balance. But the talk is, and
you know, I went into I went into this in
depth with a story on Wednesday, and based on what
I'm hearing, yes, the Pelicans are legitimately considering. Doesn't mean
(17:15):
they would one hundred percent do it, but they are
considering the prospect of trying to assemble a deal for
Charlotte's number two pick that would feature Zion Williamson. And
at first blush, you say.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Wait a minute.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
For only four years removed from Zion going number one overall,
New Orleans would actually seriously consider trading him. And again
the word I'm hearing is yes, it's something that they
are weighing. What do you see in the Fresno crystal
ball here? Could you see New Orleans actually parting with
(17:55):
Zion to get up to number two in the draft
or number three? Lynn is the other kind of variable here.
But if you trade for number three, you might not
get Scoot. Charlotte might stay on too, might hold firm
and take Scoot Henderson at number two. So look into
your crystal ball. What do you see, mister Haynes.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
I think the only way.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Well, first of all, as answer your first question, do
I think they could move Zion, Yes, I do. Giants
availability has been an issue, you know, there have been
questions about how he has how he has attacked his
several rehab stints. So you have that, and then you
just have the urgency of the Pelicans. They're trying to win,
(18:39):
They're trying to do something now. So you put all
that out there that leads me to believe. Yes, I
do agree that they would consider moving him now when
it comes to moving up to try to get scooted
unless Charlotte lets everybody knows that they're going with Brandon,
which I.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Don't think Charlotte should do. I don't think they will do.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I think you keep that very close to the Vest
to give yourself the opportunity to get the best deal possible,
to get New Orleans to want to do a deal
with you opposed to a deal with the Blazers at
number three. And so I think from New Orleans standpoint,
if they really want Scoop, they have to figure out
(19:24):
a deal to get that second pick. And that's what
I think Charlotte should hold close to the Vest and
New Orleans that they've been looking for. They've been in
need of a point guard. You know. CJ has been
playing that position, but he's more of an off guard.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And I don't know will that make New Orleans better?
You know, Scoop. Look, I had to I was invited
to Scoots.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
He had a personal workout in Atlanta last week, but
I was covering. I was covering game three or Game
four of the finals, and I couldn't make it. But
just from the video footage I watched from a couple
of his workouts, Man.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
The guy, I mean, body wise, he's NBA ready.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
You know, he's like he's really he's really a physical
specimen already. And he's played in the G League and
he's nineteen, and a lot of nineteen year olds are
not ready day one of the NBA. But the fact
that he's played against grown men already, I think that
puts him a step above probably his his counterparts. So
with that being said, if New Orleans really wants that,
(20:29):
I think they gotta go. They got a trade for
that number two pick. I don't think he can mess
around and try to wait and hope that he falls
number three and try to do some with Portland. I
think that would be a catastrophic move.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
You've always been plugged into the Scoot Henderson camp. He's
never going to admit it. They're never going to publicly say,
but just if you were surmising, will use that word
instead of speculating, would he be excited to land in
New Orleans?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You think that's something that would appeal to him?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
You know, I haven't.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I haven't spoken with him since this had this had
surface before it was just Charlotte New Orleans. And I
know he's a big Dame fan, and you know, I
think at some point Dame and Scoop might talk in
the near future, but so yeah, I haven't. I haven't
spoken to them, uh in recent days since this new
(21:25):
surface about New Orleans. So I really I don't know
how he feels about it.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
I guess so he's been He has been pretty outspoken
about the Portland thing, hasn't he like he he wants to.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
He's convinced that he can he can become that.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
If he ended up with the Blazers, that he could
play next to Dame and be an instant contributor.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
He wants he wants to play next to Dame. He
wants to play the next Dame. So you know, Dame
has a decision. You know, I know this is a
scoot New Orleans topic, but you know, Dame kind of
a nice segue into into what Dame is going to do.
He has a decision to make. Is he going to
be happy with the number three pick? The players also
(22:06):
have believe that twenty third pick as well. So it's
like Portland they can do a few things like if
they keep the number three, if Dame feels good about
the possibility of him and Scoop being able to work together,
and he thinks that, you know, Scoop can take help
take this team to the next level, then there's other
packages that Portland could look into trading the number twenty
(22:27):
three pick along with we've been hearing you know, Athrety
Simon's name being available.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Does Simons in the number twenty three get you.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
A good quality starter waterline all star player?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Does it? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And so Portland has a lot They got a lot.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Of decisions to weigh.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
But as it pertains the Scoop, you know, he believes
he's ready day one, he believes he's prepared, he believes
he's yeah, very confident he believes he's prepared more than
anybody in this draft class. And so for New Orleans standpoint,
that bodes well for them if they're able to make
that happen.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
The thing is with Zion, so let's transition to Zion.
Thing with Zion.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
One thing teams are telling me is that no doubt,
when Zion is healthy, he's a specimen.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
He's unstoppable.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know, the sheer force that he provides in that
painted area and on an office and end, he just
overpowers everyone. But one thing teams want to see is
his medicals. That is going to be very very important.
Teams getting to look at his medicals and then deciding
from there what to do. I don't know what those
(23:43):
medicals look like. I don't know the story that that's
going to tell. But if these trades talks pretended to Zion,
I'm not saying the trade talks because it's just this
is right now, is just New Orleans would consider. But
if it gets really serious, teams are going to have
to look at the medicals, and then from there. Once
(24:06):
one team looks at the medicals, and if say, for example,
say the medicals they're bad, They just do not look good.
It's going to get out there, and then that's going
to mess up the trade value for the Pelicans in
general as it pertains to Zion Williamson. So that's that's
like steps further down the road if we get to it.
I'm just trying to give fans a little peek inside
(24:28):
how these things work.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, look, I get the question.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
So many of my readers on my substack have been
asking me to try to gauge Zion's value, and it's
really hard to do that because, yes, you know, like
you said, you just look at the pure numbers. When
Zion's on the floor, he averages twenty six on nearly
sixty one percent shooting from the field. I mean, you
can't be more efficient offensively than he is.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
You know, his rebounding, to me, that's.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Always been an area that he needs to, you know,
deliver more. That's an area where he can certainly improve.
But we also saw in New Orleans early this season
when he was rolling and the Pelicans were rolling that
you know, he can play make too, So I mean,
he has considerable offensive gifts. But then there's just no
(25:18):
way to get around the fact he's only played in
one hundred and fourteen out of three hundred eight possible
regular season games.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
There's just no way to dodge that.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
And the two main things I can add the reason
why this is a consideration for New Orleans, why they
are weighing the prospect of trading Zion Williamson after just
four years together. You know, as one trusted league observer
put it to me, there is a rising level of
(25:49):
exasperation within the Pells organization about those availability issues, about
the way he.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Has approached the game. But the other thing, and this
is this is just as significant.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
It really appears that if the Pels were forced to
consider trading Zion or trading Brandon Ingram, they're much more
apt to trade Zion at this point that Ingram has
reached a level in that organization where he is considered
the safer from a trade when looking at those two guys.
(26:24):
So those are two significant developments. And look, we've spent
the first half hour of this pod. You know, the
season has been over for minutes, and again the championship
parade is going on as we're recording this, and already
Zion Williamson Bradley Beal in potential trades.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I think that speaks to what.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Kind of off season in terms of player movement we
are likely in for. It is not a stellar free
agent class. Spending money for free agency is very limited.
It's only a few teams that have significant cap space,
and they're not contending teams. So I don't know what
we're gonna get in terms of free agent fireworks. But
(27:08):
the prospect of trades connected to next week's draft, right
after next week's draft, before the NBA calendar year moves
to twenty twenty three to twenty four, and even in July, trades, trades, trades,
I think we're going to see a fair few, so
buckle up for that. Lastly, mister Haynes, I think we
(27:46):
need to dedicate this edition of This League Uncut and friends.
As always, remember please rate, review, and subscribe to the
show via Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Or wherever you get your pods. Please do that for us.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
But this episode, it must be it must be said.
We're doing this with a serious hat tip to the
Denver Nuggets, the NBA's new champions, first time champions. The
last time we did a pod, it was with the
series score at three to one, a very very unsightly
(28:26):
Game five, Miami mucked the game up, mucked with an
m just as they would have wanted to, made it ugly,
made it messy. Denver still finds a way, finishes the
series off. Nikola Jokic NBA Finals MVP in an eleven
(28:48):
zero runaway in that vote no MVP debate in the finals,
and man, all I can say is, you tricked us, Denver.
You tricked me. That seven and ten finished to the
regular season. I paid way too much attention to it.
(29:11):
It made me question whether the Nuggets were truly ready
for a playoff run.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
It was all a ruse.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
They mowed through the postseason sixteen and four, and critics
will say, yeah, you know, they didn't play a top
three seed, which has never happened in the you know,
in the in the sixteen team playoff era, and this
was year forty of that playoff era, and somehow they
didn't play a number one seed along the way. But
(29:41):
you know, this was a this was a season I
think you got to somewhat throw the seedings out. The
Lakers made it to the conference finals as a number seven,
but they were not a number seven, and they took
out the defending champion Warriors to get to the West Finals.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And Miami.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
We can't look at them as your usual number eight
after what they did to fifty eight win Milwaukee and
fifty seven win Boston. So you know, downgrade the Nuggets
championship if you want because you think they didn't see
enough powerhouses on the way. But come on, man, Nikola
Jokic age twenty eight, first player in NBA Playoff history
(30:21):
to lead all players total points, six hundred, total rebounds,
two hundred and sixty nine total assists one hundred and ninety.
Incredible coronation for the Nuggets, and they shut a lot
of people up. And again, as we're taping this, the
parade is going on, and I'm seeing tweets while we
(30:43):
record about wow Jokic with some curse action.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Here, Nikola Jokic said to the.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Roar of five hundred thousand plus fans in Denver, this
is a tweet from our buddy Mark Spears.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Quote.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
I told them I didn't want to stay for the parade,
but I bleeping want to stay for the parade.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
This is the best. This is amazing. So there you go.
Loves parades. Michael Malone's been talking smack all day.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Long, rightfully, so rightfully, so I told you start our
last part.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I said, listen, we're going to the next pot.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
We're gonna we're gonna be congratulating the Dinner Nuggets, congratulating
Joker on winning Finals MVP, and you know they're gonna
wrap it up in five, and they did. I didn't
see anything left in Miami covering that series. I felt
like the Miami Heat they emptied their clip, as small
(31:48):
as a clip that they were dealing with.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
It was empty. They'd have nothing left.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
And Denver was just too much depth, too much talent,
and Miami Heat worked hard, they worked their butts off,
and that's probably one of the most hard hardest working
teams in the league, especially the most hardest working team
in the playoffs, and I think that got them to
this point. But at the end of the day, when
you're the two last two teams standing, it's going to
(32:16):
take hard work and it's going to take some talent
and depth, and they just didn't have the latter two
to be able to extend this series out. And so
Denver Nuggets, may you credit them. I've been seeing like
people try to discredit the Nuggets run or diminished or
the value the competition they had or to run.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
All you can do is play the opponent that you're giving.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
You know that that opponent they had a path, They
had to get through some obstacles to get to that point.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I think it's weak to try to devalue the Nuggets championship.
They are champions.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
They were the best team. They were the best team
in the regular season all season long. They respected the
course of the regular season. They were not about all
this low management stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
They went in and they had.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
A plan and they executed, and so I applaud them.
They were a fun team to watch. I hope people
got got a chance to really see how valuable the
Kolaki is. You know, that is a He's a great,
great player that you should already have amongst the top
centers of all time already. I'm gonna let you say something,
(33:23):
but I want to ask you about later about the
all time great sinners. And I want to see if
you agree with me or not. This is a conversation
I was having with my brother a few days ago.
But what do you think about the dinner Nuggets run?
Speaker 4 (33:37):
When you really look at it, The signals were there,
and again, I you know, I put myself high on
the list when they wobbled at the end of the
regular season seven to ten finish, I did start to
ask those questions again about these guys.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
But the truth is, you.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Know, they took sole possession a first place in the
way on January seventeenth. They never relinquished it, So they
basically were the top seed in the West for three
months before the playoffs started, and that enabled them to
you know, that certainly contributed to that kind of wobble
(34:16):
at the end. They maybe lost some focus because they
knew they had the West wrapped up, but they mowed
through the four teams in front of them. I really
feel like Miami the crusher for them. What any chance
they had of winning the finals was lost when they
got dragged to seven games by Boston. You go up
(34:37):
three to zero on Boston, Finish them off in four,
finish them off in five.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
At worst, finish them off in six.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
If Miami does any of that, any one of those
three options, the Heat can go to Denver early before
the finals, get acclimated to the altitude, give themselves a
better foothold in the series. They still won Game two
as it is, but yeah, I mean the only game
they won they shot nearly forty nine percent from three
(35:07):
the four games they lost, they were sub thirty five
percent from three in all four defeats. So the Nuggets
earned every bit of this championship. Jokic was great, Murray
was great, all the others were great. I mean, they
had the best team and were trying to tell us that.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Again, they tried to show they were.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
They gave us a lot of hits for three months
before the playoffs, and we just didn't want to see him.
And you know, now we'll see in this wild offseason
who can close the gap because Denver, Okay, Bruce Brown,
they're in danger of not being able to re sign him.
But you know already you're hearing people kind of compare
it to the Bobby Porter situation. Will Bruce Brown elect
(35:54):
to stay with the Nuggets for possibly less money.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Than he could make on the open market.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Because he loves the situation so much, just like Bobby
Ports did in staying with the Bucks after they won
it all. But you know, most likely Brown would be
the only key departure from that team. So there's a
lot of work for a lot of teams.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
To do in the West just to close the gap.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
So man is it going to be a wild and
crazy and busy offseason, these nests again.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
You know, maybe I hope I'm not jinxing it with
all this hype.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
I really hope I'm not, But I don't think I am.
I think we are going to see many, many, many trades.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Stan question I have for you, now go for it already.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
We're just talking about what Nikola Jokis has done to
this point, and then you know what we think he's
going to continue to do for however many.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
Years as of now, has he corracked your all time
top six center category?
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Has he coracked it? So?
Speaker 4 (37:09):
The five ahead of him are Kareem Russell, Wilt Shack.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Who am I leaving out?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
I put a lodge one in there? Yep, that's five.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
I'll put it like this. He's absolutely an all time
great to me. And the only reason you could even
say that he wouldn't be is because he's only won
one title. You know, he's won for one in the finals.
Let's see how many titles he ends up with. But
you know what I feel even stronger about is it
really bothered me that he wasn't in the top seventy five.
(37:45):
I mean, he to me, I was not an official
voter on the top seventy five, but to me, even
at that point, he should have been a top seventy
five player. And you know, he has a tru tremendous
chance to ultimately crack the top five. You know, I
guess we consider dunking a power for it rather than
(38:07):
a center.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
But there's no question. I mean, this guy is an all.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Time great and he has nothing to prove to nobody
at this point.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Okay, STEI, I maybe taking another I maybe taking it
to a controversial place, but we do that here in
this league, and this this is a podcast we could
believe if we could erase it if we want to.
So let's act now and worry about the consequences later.
All right, Stey Bill Russell? What the greatest winners of
(38:39):
all time? Why is he a top five sinner of
all time? Take winning out of it.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
I think defensively, he was such a game changer that
he would you know, offensively, you know, all those centers
you named have better offensive credentials. But it's not just
the winning with Russell, it is the defense. Block Shots
(39:06):
weren't even a thing when he played, or when Wilt played,
so It's like, we don't really have the raw statistical
data to tell us how great these guys are, and
we don't have the footage. This has always been one
of my major, major complaints and laments about being an
NBA fan and trying to be an NBA historian. Baseball
(39:28):
was my first love. That was the first sport I
was really introduced to. And what but like even at
a young age, like you know, you're not even ten
years old, and you know about Babe Ruth and lou
Gerrig and Ty Cobb and Bob Gibson and on and on.
You know, I mean, I could name a zillion guys.
You learn these stories as a baseball fan when you're
so young. But in basketball, pardon me if I've told
(39:51):
this story before, but it's important. I feel like, you know,
I can't tell it enough. When I started covering the
LA Clippers halfway through the ninety four season, Elgin Baylor
was the general manager of the Clippers, and I remember
the first extended conversation I had with Elgin and I said,
(40:12):
I can't believe I've never really.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Seen footage of you playing. You know.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
He retired during that amazing Lakers early in that amazing
Lakers season when they won thirty three games in a
row and won the title in seventy one seventy two.
So I was only two or three. I never got
to see Elgin Baylor play. And when I told the
Clippers that a team official with the Clippers actually went
(40:37):
to the league and paid NBA Entertainment to make like
a forty five minute VHS tape of Elgin highlights. And
I didn't get to keep the tape. I don't have
it anymore, but they let me borrow it and watch it,
which was so cool to see just what was in
the vault at the league. Because again, this stuff, it's
(41:00):
we don't we do. It's such a bad job with
NBA history. So like Bill Russell Wilt like, we've seen nothing,
you know, my age or your age, We've seen nothing
from what these.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Guys could really do.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
So the number of rings Bill Russell has, you just
you cannot diminish it.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
You know, I love a cheme too.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
I would say if Jok isn't there already, that he
will pass a keem. But I see a lot of
our contemporaries they rate a cheme higher than I do.
So again it's also Iya the Beholder stuff too.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
We have to remember Hakm was first of all, probably
had the best foot work it that of a big
forget big, just best footwork period as a basketball player.
Even still to this day, I don't know, I don't
see anybody who has the pivots like Hakm did, Kobe,
Michael Jordan, they were, they were close. But the thing
(41:54):
about Hakim he was dominant offensively, but he was dominant
deficively too. I still, uh, you know, I still got
ha Keen higher than Joker right now. But back to
Bill Russell Stein, you know the King Baby Tumble was
just defense. Alonzo Morning earlier, his earlier in his years
(42:16):
was a two way player, then transition to just being
a defensive player. But for a center, Bill Russell, I believe,
I mean, look this up because I want I want
to have it accurately. You know, the big man position.
Usually for centers, they average a field goal percentage career
of fifty or higher. Do you know what Bill Russell's
(42:38):
field goal percentage is for his career?
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Not off the top of my head, hit me.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
His field goal percentage for his career is, drum roll,
forty four percent from the field. Bill Russell was sixteen
sixty ten center, which you know that was that was
center size back those days. That does like that doesn't
(43:03):
do anything.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
No, it doesn't change.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
It doesn't change my feeling one ounce, because I think
field goal percentages were generally way lower.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
In those days than they are now.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
But but not just he was just not just that.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
Justin Kubatko, who does a wonderful substack called Statitudes. Justin
is one of my favorite NBA historians and researchers and
just fantastic with the numbers in the history of the game.
Before the finals, he went back and did a piece.
You know, the final NBA Finals MVP didn't start until
(43:48):
I believe nineteen sixty nine, so there were many many
years that the NBA didn't even do a Finals MVP.
Justin did a piece and went back and awarded the
finals that the mythical Finals MVP, who his numbers said
should have won the award all those years that the
league didn't hand out a Finals MVP trophy, and by
(44:13):
Justin's very unofficial count, but I take it as pretty
reliable that Russell would have won the Finals MVP six times.
So there's a reason why the Finals MVP Trophy is
now named the Bill Russell NBA Finals MVP Trophy because
the man was an undeniable.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Winner, game changer. And you know what, for me, whenever I.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
Think about top ten, top five, top twenty, whatever it is,
I do think the off court stuff does matter. And
his impact on a social scale was so tremendous. I
do think that factors in, even though it's not an
on court things. It's like it's like Alan Iverson. You know,
(45:02):
we could really analyze Alan Iverson's efficiency and we can
theoretically grade him down as an all time great because
of efficiency issues. But the cultural impact that Alan Iverson had,
to me, that is worth bonus points. He never won
a championship, he got the phil he got Philly to
one finals, but his popularity and cultural impact, I do
(45:26):
factor that in when I'm assessing Alan Iverson's career resume,
and I think with Bill Russell, it's got a factor in.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Also, I'm not even gonna argue with you, because this
is Bill Russell we're talking about. You can never win
a situation, You could never win an argument if people
perceive you to be diminishing Bill Russell's legacy at all.
So I'm gonna leave it there, but that I remember,
I remember when I found that stat out was.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Like forty from the field sixteen center.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Well, you know what's funny, because it's that you bring
that up, because when I did my I was not
a voter on the top seventy five, and I actually
regret it now. Like in my New York Times years,
I was at the Times for three and a half years.
At the Times, we were not allowed to vote on
anything official with the league because the Times philosophy was
(46:19):
we cover the story, we don't participate in making the news.
And so when I started my own sub stack in
July of twenty twenty one, I'm coming up on my
two year anniversary here, I adopted the same policy and
I basically said, I'm gonna I'm no longer going to
vote on any NBA awards. The league asked me to
come back and be a voter, I said no, I'm
not going to do it. But when they asked me
(46:41):
to do top seventy five, I said no, and I
really regretted it because I do love the history of
the game, and that is one vote that I really
do now wish I had broken my own rule. To
be a part of, and my seventy five ended up
being very different from the ultimate seventy five. I remember
I left off Dolph Shase, who was one of the
(47:04):
initial greats in the league in the very very pre
Russell stages of the NBA. And I had some very
prominent NBA historians come at me and just crush me
for saying, how could you not have dolphshes in your
top seventy five? And I omitted Dolph Shase in large
(47:26):
part because I did look at his field goal percentage,
and I'm pretty sure his career field goal.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Percentage is sub forty.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
So that's why I say, in those days, even big
men didn't you know, there were no zions converting at
sixty percent in the early days of the NBA.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
So maybe I was too hard on Dolph Shase.
Speaker 4 (47:47):
And now that's kind of entering my thinking here when
you bring up mister Russell's field goal percentage.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Okay, that's why.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
That's why I'm glad I'm speaking to an NBA historian,
somebody who's coverly way further than you know, way earlier
than I was, So I'll respect it.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Respect all right, everybody that was not that was not
a Laane.
Speaker 4 (48:07):
I expected us to go on Trade Talk Thursday, But
there you go. We'ved in some history, we'ved in some
Denver Nuggets championship celebrations. But yes, at the forefront, Bradley
Beal is this It is Washington finally going to trade him? Well,
(48:28):
the Pelicans actually trade Zion Williamson in connection with.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
The NBA Draft. Major, major questions to ponder.
Speaker 4 (48:39):
Chris and I will be back with you soon, and
by the next time we get together for one of
these there will no doubt.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Be tons more.
Speaker 4 (48:48):
Transactional discussion to get into because the transaction game has
fully taken over from the games themselves. For the next
two three weeks at least, Summer League isn't too far
in the distance. Chris Haynes and I will both be
(49:09):
in Las Vegas. We got a surprise in Vegas that
we're working on. Can't reveal it yet, but I promise
it will not disappoint. That does it for this edition
of This League Uncut Friends again, Please rate, review, subscribe
to the pod so the gems that mister Haynes loves
(49:30):
to reveal on this show comes straight.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
To your phone. That does it? Back again? Soon everybody
enjoy all the transaction of talk out and that'll do
it for us. See you next time. This league uncut
it is and iHeartRadio production Chris Haynes and Mark stime
Speaker 1 (50:01):
I
Fox Sports Radio News
Host
Jonas Knox
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