July 5, 2023 • 52 mins
The Book of Joe Podcast opens with a day of bad luck for the Angels. Hosts Tom Verducci and Joe Maddon discuss Mike Trout heading to the IL and some troubling stats around his legacy. Is it time for the Angels to consider trading Shohei Ohtani? Joe gives some surprising thoughts on the matter. We turn our attention to 'Super Groups' in music and in baseball. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but why? Plus, how much input should a manager have on potential player deals getting done?
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hi there, welcome back to the latest episode of the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Me Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe. Listen.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
There's a lot of things we could talk about. We
get the All Star Game coming up. That's an exciting time,
and Seattle gets the game again for the first time
in about twenty two years.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
But man, we got to talk about your Angels again.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
They keep making news and it's not always for the
right reason.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
What a day the fourth of July was for the Angels.
Mike Trout goes on the.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Il with a busted bone in his wrist, Shoe O'tani
has to come out of the game, at least pitching wise,
because of a blister on the middle finger of his
pitching hand, and Anthony Wrendon has to come out of
the game because hey, it's a foul ball off his
shin maybe inside of the knee, and was actually on
crutches after the game.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh my goodness. I mean, it's been a rough go
for the Angels for years now. Joe, You've been there,
you know what it's like.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
First of all, I got to ask you about Mike
with Mike going now with that handmate bone injury, what
was your first reaction when you heard about it.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well, when I actually did see, I think I saw
the swing on replay, and when that happens, it's never good, right,
I mean, to take an actual swing. It's almost like
when he got hurt when he was handing the helmet
off to Brian Butterfield a couple of years ago. He's
coming from second to third base, hands him to the
helmet and all of a sudden his cap became an issue.
And then just whenever guy takes his swing and has
(01:35):
to leave the game, just purely by taking a swing,
it normally is not a good situation. So yeah, I
mean you think it's it's got to take a long time.
It's going to be long term. I'd be curious to
see if he's going to play the rest of the
season at all. I think he said he already said
that he will, But that's risks are bad man, riskstone
heel easily and risks bother you even after they're supposedly healed.
(01:57):
So yeah, that was really awkward to watch and see,
and I felt badly for him, But again, never a
good thing when a guy lead the game on a
swing with the wrist.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, those handmai bone injuries can go anywhere from four
weeks if you're lucky, to eight weeks if you do
need surgery, and depending on how bad the break is.
We don't know that Mike will find out the next
couple of days whether he needs surgery or not.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
But it's going to be at least a month.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I've got him down for missing probably at least forty games,
and it's just a shame.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I mean, Mike was starting to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
He's starting to heat up a little bit here in
the last couple of weeks, and now I look at
Mike's career and there's an element of what if to it, Joe,
because he's one of the greatest players of this generation,
and the hardest part for him has just been staying
on the field. The injuries are starting to mount up
where we're not seeing Mike trout enough on the baseball
(02:50):
field in the prime years of his career.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
He's going to turn thirty two next month.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
His career is actually comparable to that of Mickey Mantle,
and I just looked this up. Mantle at the same
age had nine seasons in which he played more than
one hundred and forty games. Mike Trout only has four
only four seasons entering now turning age thirty two next month,
in which he's played more than one hundred and forty games.
(03:16):
It's just a shame that we haven't got to see
and enjoy Mike Trout more than we should.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Part of the Mickey situation was at least the fans
got to see him in the postseason, the World Series
obviously with the Yankees, and and actually like Mickey really
became even more popular as he was there longer. The
fact that Michael has not been able to participate in
postseason really does. It hurts. It hurts somewhat of the
legacy because he's so good. But it's not his fault.
(03:45):
I mean organizationally that we just they have not really
achieved that level. So there's all those different items conspiring
against him. Of course, it's his body. Happens, Injuries do occur,
They do happen, and yeah, I mean, gosh, to play
that many years and not really be able to fulfill
(04:07):
at least one whatever that was hundreds for forty games
whatever annually. It's tough, man, But the body breaks down.
The body gets hurt. Listen, the guy's a specimen. I've
been around him. I mean, he takes care of himself.
He works his butt off, works his butt off in
the off season. He does everything he possibly can to
be on the field. But sometimes it just works out
that way. Some guys are prone to injury. And like
I said, one is just handing a helmet off the
(04:28):
butter butterfield and there goes a cap and there's a
just an innocuous swing. And also I think it also
indicates your typifies. I mean, you can't worry about guys
getting injured. I mean, injuries do occur, whether it's a
pitcher of position player, whatever. You do your best possible
method of training and attending to impossibly resting. But at
(04:49):
the end of the day, man, guys get hurt.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
No doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And you think about we're going to the All Star
Break here and you've got on the il Mike Trout,
Clayton Kershaw, Aaron Judge, Jacob de Gram.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Think about it, Guys get hurt.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
You're right, Joe, But you know, the greatest predictor of
injury is previous injuries. We're talking about four of the
best players in this generation, all in their thirties, all
with injury histories, all unable to play right now.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
It's just a shame.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
And speaking of shame, Mike Trout, as you mentioned here,
he doesn't have enough postseason experience, just that one series
the Angels got swept by Kansas City. In the last
six years, Mike Trout and shoe Heotani rank in the
top four and wins above replacement in baseball. You got
Mookie Betts one, Aaron Judge two, Otani three, Trout four.
(05:41):
So basically two of the four best players in baseball
have been on the same team for six years, and
that team is a combined fifty games under five hundred,
the eleventh worst record in baseball in six years that
Mike Trout and sho Heo Tani have been on the
same team. And now with this injury to Mike Trout,
(06:04):
we will never see a year, assuming Otani's going to
sign somewhere else, in which Trout and Otani played one
hundred and twenty games in the same season. I mean,
I just feel like, you know, we've been deprived of greatness,
whether it's in the postseason or watching the two of
them at the very best for a long period of time.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, I mean I had the privilege of watching it
in person. You know. Organizationally, it really comes down to that.
I mean the fact that the group, the Angels, have
not been able to put a playoff contending team together
for a while on any kind of consistent basis. So
you got like, you're talking about war Win's above replacement. Okay,
so it's a very cool stat. I get it. It
just means you're good. You know, you could just say
(06:46):
it's your good. It's an it equals that you are
a good baseball player stat. But overall, it's got to
be like a Win's above replacement organization. You got to
be able to figure it out and win on a
consistent annual basis beyond just a couple really bright shiny
objects like those two guys to be able to figure
it out pitching, defense, method methodology, organizational philosophy. And I'm
(07:11):
not just pointing at them. It happens to other organizations
as well. Right now, Cincinnati starting to ascend a bit,
Pittsburgh is ascending a bit. But it really comes down
to the group, and it always starts from from the top.
That's where all this stuff success. Permeates from I believe,
and so that's that's the whole thing with the Angels
that's unable to create and sustain or maintain an organizational
(07:36):
philosophy that season through bad moments. I think that's when
groups get really good, when you have this method where okay,
guys have heard things are are not particularly right right now,
but we're still gonna win somehow. We're going to figure
this out somehow. And I believe that could be done
and notes how I would have to sit down and
write down all my different thoughts in regards to how
to get that done and what creates that kind of
(07:59):
a mindset. But again, it's not just the Angels. Other
organizations have been kind of bitten by this particular thing.
And for me, it always starts with one group, one thought,
one one particular the head of the whole organization philosophically,
and it has to leak down from there for the
group to be good. Whether it's baseball, football, basketball, or
any industry in the United States, it always starts there philosophically,
(08:23):
I believe.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, I would agree with you.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I think what you're driving at here is stability, the
commitment to a philosophy I think the relationship between the
general manager, president baseball operations or whatever you want to
call it, and the manager in baseball is as important
as anything, but it's driven by above them ownership level.
And let's face it, the Angels and you were a
part of this, Joe, have had a lot of churn,
(08:46):
whether it's manager, coaching staff, general managers. Listen, I give
Ardy moreno credit. He's a type of owner that does
not want to go through a rebuild. But that also
means sometimes you're chasing your own tail, and the lack
of stability can just have you in a churn mode
that doesn't produce anything of consistency.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Well, I mean that lot of that has to do
with me. With rafting and farm system, you just can't
for me, just can't acquire your team free agent wise
on an annual basis. I mean, after all, you look
at the teams that have kind of turned it around,
whether it was the Cubs that I was there, a
lot of it was based under farm system and draft choices,
and the same thing's going on. I love watching Cincinnati
right now. Excuse me. I didn't even know any of
(09:28):
these guys. I've been watching them more recently and the
same thing with Pittsburgh. It's got to be a combination
of all factors. It just can't be one. And I
think for me, it's scouting and development of the lifeblood
of any organization, and to not really spend a lot
of time developing both, I don't think you could ever
set yourself up for a consistent positive results. You're going
(09:50):
to set yourself up with failure at some point. You know,
the Cardinals, for the most part, they've been really good
at that stuff. They're having a tough year this year,
but those are the kind of things that are tried
and trus I just think you have to stay with
that when you start coming outside of you know, normal patterns,
and the normal patents to me are scouting and development. Yes,
augment it with everything the free agency, augment it with
(10:12):
a great analytical department, but you have to have a
great coaching staff. You have to teach baseball. I mean,
I'm watching baseball games and there's really not a lot
of not good baseball being played in a lot of situations.
And I don't think that it's really necessarily considered important
by enough people before they get there. They're relying too
much on math to win games, and we're just talking
(10:33):
about wins above replacement that hasn't won anything for the
Angels in regards to two superstars. It's tried and true
playing baseball the proper correct way. And again, I could
sit down with anybody and I'll write everything down and
I'll give you exactly what I mean, whether it's a
pitching development, infield or development, outfield development, hitting development, whatever, development.
It really starts with that, and it goes before that scouting.
(10:55):
Who are you looking for and what are we looking for?
And let's not just have like try to throw stuff
against the wall and see if it sticks. Let's have
an actual plann exit what we're looking for. And I
think the better groups do things like that. So that's it.
I mean, I don't think it's complicated, quite frankly. I
just think you have to make a commitment to that,
and I think if you do, in my opinion, there's
(11:15):
no reason that you have to, you should be able
to retool on the fly. You don't have to go
through rebuild four years of we're going to stink, and
you tell your fan base are going to be bad
and just stay with us four years and that we're
going to be Okay, I don't like that either. There's
got to be a better way. I think there is
a better way to do both simultaneously, and to me,
that would be the appropriate way to do this.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, and I'm happy to see that in today's environment
here with the new rules, show where athleticism really is
coming to play. That you're seeing teams now with those
young players. The Reds are a great example that you
mentioned that are really playing well. And you know, listening
playing by the analytics game, a lot of times you're
going to buy into power. Right, not necessarily great baseball players,
(11:59):
but power sells. You want swing and miss on the mound.
You want guys who hit it out of the ballpark.
You put up with stouts. Those players tend to be
more expensive because analytics values power probably more than it should.
And the teams that were winning this year, it's interesting
to me at the halfway point, including ties seven of
the twelve teams in playoff position, we're bottom eleven in payroll.
(12:22):
Talking about the Rays, the Orioles, the Reds, the Diamondbacks,
the Brewers, the Guardians, the Marlins.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
What do they do?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
They all run the base as well, they all defend well,
they all have a lot of young players, and we've
seen teams like the Mets and the Cardinals and the
Padres of the older teams really struggling in the environment today.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
So I agree with you. You can flip things over.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
You don't have to just tell your fans for five
years you know we're gonna be bad, don't pay any
attention to us. But if you develop young players at drafting, yes,
but developing young players like the Rays are not great
actually at drafting players, but they're great at identifying players
and other organizations, and their coaching and their player development
is off thet's great. They always get the most out
(13:06):
of players who've been other places and not reached their ceiling.
That's part of it as well, not just drafting. So
I like where the game is heading because I think
we do have a more athletic game. I see more
aggressive base running now than I've seen since I don't know,
maybe going back to the eighties, certainly the early nineties.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So that's all good.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah, I think you're one hundred percent right. There is
an analytical game that's quite boring actually, and then there's
an athletic game that's quite exciting and you're describing for me,
I put on Cincinnati every night. I do, and I
just you know, I'm a latent fan. I mean, when
I was with the Cubbies, they were not very good,
but they had nice players. I was like, man, these
guys got some nice players, they got some good arms.
It's not just working, but there's an analytical game. And
(13:46):
like you said, that's a power game. That's a top
of the strike zone game. That's a game that's based
purely on math and predictions and large sample sizes and
the stuff. To me that you would do in the
offseason in order to acquire players. But when the seasons
in progress, especially like the new rules, the nooles are
the old rules quite quite frankly, the new rules are okay,
the base a little bit bigger, but all of a sudden,
(14:08):
the analytical departments have kind of gone athletic and they're saying,
go ahead, go ahead, and try to run, go and
put pressure on the other side. Oh wow, it really
does work when you when you cause the pitcher to
split his concentration and have to think about you as
well as the edders simultaneously, Well, that actually works. Were
when we're we're two guys on each side of the bag.
But if we're you know, kind of put them in
(14:28):
the right spot and play athletic defense, we could win
games like that too. I mean, it's an athletic game.
It's it's really trending away from analytics athletics and that
and that to me, that's that's why it's if it's
regaining popularity at all, because the fans are watching baseball
players play baseball again and again. There's a couple of
prime examples. There's teams that are very boring to watch,
The very analytically inclined teams are kind of boring, and
(14:51):
the ones that are trending towards athleticism are much more
exciting to watch. And I think that's what baseball wants,
it needs.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
It's showing in attendance has been a good year baseball wise.
Attendance is up for about twenty two of the thirty teams,
and overall attendance is up, and there's no doubt that
the style of play has something to do with that.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
All Right, we're gonna take a quick break and we
come back.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I want to put Joe on the spot and have
him pretend he's ardi moreno what do you do with
show hey Otani, now that you know Mike Trout is
not going to be in your lineup for the next
month or two, be right back, Welcome back to the
(15:36):
Book of Joe podcasts, Show Hey Otani. Joe just had
a month that I think, and this is not hyperbole,
might be the greatest month in baseball history. I say
that because in June, Otani slugged not ops slugged nine
fifty two. Okay, there's only been two players in the
(15:56):
history of the game that had any month where they
slugged that high with at least one hundred and twenty
five played appearances, and that's Babe Ruth and Joe DiMaggio.
Babe Ruth did it four times, but that was after
he gave up, gave up the whole pitching gig. So
Otani slugs ninety two and he also punches out eleven
(16:21):
batters per nine innings, makes five starts on the mound,
and has a three two era. I don't know that
there's ever been seriously a month of baseball better than
what shohey Otani did in June.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, agreed, hundred percent. So what do you do in
this situation for me, you got to you just describe
the probably the greatest player that's ever played the game
of baseball along with Mikey in the same team. Now,
what is the objective here? Is the objective to put
people in the stands based on the fact that you
have the greatest show on Earth based on two guys.
(16:57):
Or we're trying to win a world series. So if
you're if you're just purely content or satisfy with know
we got an annual basis. People are going to come
see you play because you have you know, for lack
of a better term, like the two most interesting freaks
and all the sport playing on the same team kind
of like a freak show baseball wise. Or you're trying
to win. So for me, if you're trying to win,
(17:17):
you and and that is the pain objective, and that
you got to trade show. You got to go herschel
walk on them. At least at least you got to
dip your toe in the water and find out what
can we get here? What are the potentialities right here?
How does it change organization around? Does it permit us
to really generate create a new philosophy that we believe
will work, will put us in play for years to come,
(17:41):
without taking a break, without slowing down, with not having
wait for four or five years. Could this one acquisition
or trade put us in the position to do something
like that? And if it does, I think you have
to do it. You absolutely have to do it, there's
no question. But if you're content with just having and
in your possession the two best players, the definitely the
best and maybe the second or third best player for
(18:01):
that has ever lived on your same team, content with
the fact that it's an attraction, then you go that way.
So I think you have to do define exactly what
we're trying to do, what we're looking for right here,
and then you go. Then the last point is everybody's
talking about that Otani, Go, do you actually trade Michael
and keep Otani? Because it's going to be hard financially
(18:22):
to do all that and then put all the other
pieces together on an annual basis in order to get
to the last game of the season and win it.
If that's your objective. If that's not your objective, then
you hold on to what you have and you go
about it in another way and accept the fact that
you probably are going to be good, but not good
enough to win the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, listen, I don't think Arty Moreno is going to
trade shoe hey Otani. I don't think that he wants
that as part of his history. I know he loves
the fact that he has this incredible asset that is
extremely entertaining.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Attendance is up with the Angels.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Otani is going to win his second MVP Award in
an Angel's uniform.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
He's going to continue to put up records and.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Anomalies that nobody has ever done before, and he can
do that in an Angel's uniform. And to be quite
frank with you, I think the Angels are four games
out of a wild card as we speak. They're not
out of it, but I will tell you that their
percentage of making the postseason is at about eleven percent.
Now is that enough for Ardie Morino to say, listen,
(19:27):
for all the reasons I just said, we have this
incredible asset, we love having him for historical entertaining reasons
in an Angel's uniform. And you know what, We're going
to get Mike Trout back in September, and maybe we'll
make a run with these two guys. I can see
the argument for keeping Otani. But I will tell you this, Joe,
I think he owes it to the fans and even
(19:48):
those who love Otani to at least explore the idea
of what he can get. I can't just take him
off the table the way that he did last year.
I understood that last year he was getting prospects back
and teams he wanted to make a Wan Soto deal
where guys are not quite established major league stars, and
already Marino wants stars in Anaheim. But I would at
(20:10):
least see what the market is for sho Aotani.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Wellether? You have to that's saying you have to dip
your tone the water. At least, at the very least,
you have to do that. I understand you know the
position in the wild card, and you pretty much you
know post All Star break you're gonna have a pretty
good idea. What kind of chance you have. It's going
to be the style of ball you're playing. Are you
able to match up against other teams? Are you playing
winning baseball? Are you catching the ball? You're pitching well
(20:38):
on a nightly basis? What's the shape of your bullpen,
what's the spree Tocord within the clubhouse. How do you
guys feel? I mean, that's those are the things that
I've always evaluated as a manager. Take, for instance, to
the fifteen Cups. Okay, you look at our record. We
eventually get to the NLCS and get beat up by
the Mets, but right after that break we kind of
got good. We made one adjustment. We put Addison that shortstop,
(21:02):
put Castro at second base Starlin, and all of a
sudden we started playing really well. And then we beat
the Giants I think it was August or I think
it was August, the four game sweep them in Chicago,
and then you know this is this, Okay, this can
actually work. So you need some kind of indicator sign
from the group within, from the daily process, from the energy,
(21:24):
all these things, just maybe even little signs. You know,
the Grand Slam and the ninth inning with two I
was in a full count that you win by a
run point one, one run, four to three or whatever
or eight to seven. You need some You need those
kind of moments in order to believe. And it really
comes down to that. It's one thing to be mathematically
whatever number of games behind, but you know what it
(21:45):
feels like, in your clubhouse. You know again, the spree
de corps. You know the togetherness, you know the energy,
you know all of that. You should know all of that,
and all of that makes sense whether or not you're
gonna be able to do something, because don't forget. You know,
even though you're saying you're this many of games behind,
you have to evaluate the other teams that are right
there with you. Seattle, allays get is getting better and
they've showed this kind of a pattern in the past
(22:08):
where they get better in a latter part of the season.
So there's a lot to evaluate besides just X number
of games behind a wild card.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, so let's take the temperature of the Angels right now.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
That's a good point you made. They've lost ten of
their last fourteen games. They have fourteen players on the
IL fourteen. They have a schedule in which twenty nine
of their next thirty nine games are against winning teams,
starting with the Dodgers this weekend and then the Yankees, Astros, Toronto, Atlanta,
(22:44):
San Francisco, Tampa, Bay Texas. It's a killer schedule. They
have nineteen games between now and the trade deadline. I
don't think Otani is going to pitch for fifteen days.
They have the All Star break coming up, and if
you want to give them some time to really recover
with that finger, well, I think if he's a six
(23:05):
starter coming out of the break, that's fifteen days off
to get him right. But it also means he's not
out there. He's your race boy. You just look at
where they're at. You take a temperature of the angels
and it's hard to see anything other than treading water,
and I think they would do well just to treade
water during this stretch here. They're a very vulnerable spot here.
(23:27):
The trout injury is just it's so big in this organization.
I think as much as arty Moreno wants to keep
sho Hey Otani, and I still think push comes to shove,
he is not going to trade Otani, but I do
think he has to at least explore the idea. I
know what he would want back, and that is ready
made major leaguers.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
He doesn't want lottery tickets.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
If you're going to trade for Otani, you're gonna have
to give Arty Moreno, name brand star players back. And
if you're a team that wants O'tani for the race,
how do you trade a star player, because then you're
weakening your own team. It's difficult to find a fit.
But again, you never know. You get in a room,
you start discussing it. We're about two and a half
weeks away from actually the Angels having to make that decision.
(24:12):
It's going to take some time to get negotiating, to
get teams involved, say a week before the deadline, at
least five days before the deadline.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
That's not much time. It's not much to be seen.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
So I don't think there's a lot can happen between
now and the deadline for the Angels to all of
a sudden say, hey, we look great.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
We got to keep this team together.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I think treading water at this point is the best
they can hope for, giving their schedule and health.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Well, I think actually the tougher schedule benefits them because
that should bring out the best of them. You want
to believe that. And they're also going to find out
can we play against the better team. So there's a
lot of stuff that'll be answered right there, And for me,
I would prefer that, I swear I would if I'm
in that same situation. I want to play better teams.
I want to find out exactly what we have right now,
and they have to be a minimum five hundred after
like you said, Tredding Water would be five hundred. The
(24:54):
goal would be I would say, you say, like twenty games,
nineteen or twenty games. If you could come out, you know,
a couple three or four games over five hundred during
that time, Wow, that would be pretty significant. If you
could do something like that, and then all of a sudden,
you're going to have a different feel about yourself and
the group. So yeah, there's a lot of questions that
will be answered in that timeframe. I'm here to tell
(25:15):
you it's not easy to just flip a switch and think,
all of a sudden, if you haven't playing good baseball,
that you're gonna start playing good baseball. It just doesn't
happen that way. There's got to be that seminal moment.
Something has to occur, whether the new player comes in
provide like with the de la Cruz, right with the
Cincinnati and all those other kids. That's that's what you need.
You need something significant. I like Moniac, I don't know
(25:38):
he plays a little I don't know this kid at all,
but this guy, to me has that kind of ability
it looks like just watching his swing and things that
I see him doing the game. So maybe he's gonna
step in there and provide something on a daily basis
that they didn't even know that they had. They kind
of do, but didn't know on a regular basis. Taylor
Word could pick it up because t Dub's are really
good and he hasn't been at that level yet this year,
(26:01):
So they got some really good players there still that
given an opportunity, might show a little bit more right now.
But you really, I think after this whatever twenty game stretch,
whatever you said about those better teams coming up right now,
just be honest with yourself after that and then you
can make a better determination.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, don't forget Joe Adell in that mix.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
He's gonna get some run here with with Mike down
and listen, he's made some nice adjustments.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
He was tearing up Triple A.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
You know, I know, you know, it's an offensive league
out there in the PCL. But he's earned his place
back here and the opportunity now presents itself for Joe
Adell to kind of establish himself. He's always had a
difficult go and you saw it Joe on the defensive
side of things. But like Moniac, who is the number
one pick, you know, stay patient with these guys. You
saw the ability, the athleticism, the power in hitters like that,
(26:51):
and not everybody hits the ground running like a Trout
or a Tatisse, So you know that the ceiling is
really high for players like that, and you're right, maybe
you guys like that can give them a jolt, So
that's what they need right now.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
It's difficult for.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Me to believe that the Angels are all of a
sudden going to play better than they have all season long,
which is what it's going to have to take for
the Angels to get to the postseason. For two games
over five hundred more than halfway into the season, and
they need to get to I think eighty six eighty
seven wins to be a factor in the playoff picture.
So they're gonna have to be better somehow without Mike
Trout for the next four to eight weeks.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I just want to say about I should have mentioned Joe.
I'm a big Joe Adell guy fan. This is a
great young man. I really enjoyed my time with him.
I enjoyed my conversations with him. The thing I love
about Joe Adele's he never makes excuses. He goes back
to Triple A just pounds it. He just pounds it.
You tell him we need you to work on something,
He works on something. He doesn't come back. He doesn't cry,
(27:45):
he doesn't call up front offices. He doesn't have his
agents call in all the time and say, hey, what's
up with Joe? Why? Why had she given Joe Moore love?
I like this man a lot. I met his dad
in a restaurant on the road, I think it was
in Chicago, and always, like I told Joe, I want
to meet your pop. I want to meet your mom,
because whoever raised you did a wonderful job. He's just
that good of a young man. So if you can
(28:06):
root for somebody, root for him, because I'll tell you
what if he does for you, this is his power
is oppressive. I mean, he could have as much power
as anybody playing the game right now. And again, if
you look at Buckston, Minnesota, when I first saw him,
he looked kind of like that, and then he wasn't
very good, and then he became very good, and then
everybody forgot about all the different faux positive had made
in the past. So if character and the person himself matters,
(28:32):
give Joe an opportunity because he's he's that good of.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
A guy, Well said, I agree with everything he said.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
He's just so impressive as a person, and you know,
the ability is there. So that'd be interesting to see
if the Angels start any kind of a run here,
because soon they're going to get Zach Nedo back, the
shortstop drafted just a couple of years ago. So you're
talking about Moniac, Netto and Adele in the lineup, and
in August you're going to get logan O hoppyback. Those
(28:58):
are four essentially rookies, really young guys, and maybe.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
That's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
We just talked about speeding and athleticism of the game,
and maybe this is the opportunity and more so the
energy that drives the Angels forward.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I mean, the odds I think are still against them.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
As you mentioned, it's it's the teams you're chasing now
as much as it is getting yourself figured out. But
young players, they're sitting on some good ones right now.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Joe No, yeah, absolutely, and it will be interesting when
these guys get that opportunity, and then you know, if
they could hold the fork down a bit and other
guys get well again, and then you could, you know,
bring the veteran back in there and hopefully augment the situation.
But look at Vodo's come back and Cincinnati and Joey's wonderful,
but it's not He's not the reason they're winning. He's
really the reason winning because of that young, energetic group,
(29:46):
athletic group that comes to play every night. That would
be the thing with the with these young angels. And
I don't know these kids other than Joe pretty good.
I don't know Ammoniac at all. I don't know Zach
at all. But that's exactly what you need right now.
And I'm telling you that's what turned it around for
the Cubbies is energetic second half and twenty fifteen, where
all of a sudden we were very athletic. We did
(30:06):
different things. We pitched really well, we caught the ball,
man did we catch the ball? And all that stuff matters.
So it just doesn't have to be about hitting. Everybody
wants it to be about hitting all the time. It
could be about energy, it could be about greater defense,
it could be about you know, winning three to two,
two to one, one nothing so much. It could be
about all that and all of a sudden momentum bills
And I'm sure you know that they already know this,
(30:29):
but that's what they're probably going to have to do.
You can't go out. They're expecting to put the big
loves on the heavyweight gloves and go to boxing. It's
the same thing with the Yankees right now. They got
to play an entire game and they have been so
you might have to make an adjustment, but who knows
in the long haul, the long term, it might actually
benefit the group.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Well, we've been talking a lot about essentially the baseball
equivalent of supergroups. We see them in rock and roll.
Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't work. And when we
get back, we will explore supergroups.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Okay, Joe.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
We talked about the Angels with Trout and Otani being
fifty games under five hundred, with those guys as teammates
for six years, they haven't been on the field together
nearly enough. Basically it hasn't worked. I mean, no playoff appearances.
It got me thinking about supergroups. And you remember back
(31:34):
in the seventies in the eighties, there were a lot
of supergroups right where you had guys who are established
stars in the music scene get together and say hey,
let's get our own band together.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I think about you probably forgot this back in twenty eleven.
Actually it wasn't that long ago. It was Mike Trout's
rookie year. Mick Jagger took a break from the Rolling
Stones and he put together a supergroup.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
He had Josh Stone, he had Dave Stewart.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
He put this supergroup together called Super Heavy, and they.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Cut twenty nine songs in ten days.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And needless to say, there was no second album from
Super Heavy.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
It just didn't work.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
You had great talents, there's no doubt about that, but
Mick Jagger is singing in Sanskrit.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
You know, probably not a.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Commercial success or an artistic success. But you know, it
doesn't always work when you have the most talented people together.
I think in baseball and like in music, there has
to be a chemistry and you can't force that. Sometimes
you try it, it doesn't happen. But Joe, you've been
on teams, whether they've been younger teams or established teams
(32:49):
that either had that chemistry or they didn't. So give
me your sense of what it takes when you have,
especially bringing together elite talent, to turning that into a
true team, and the difficulty of doing that.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
It's, yes, one hundred percent, you're on the money with
all of that. You don't need fifteen to twenty superstars
on it within a group group to win a championship,
not at all. For me, it is about creating culture.
And you know a lot of people scoff at that notion.
What does that mean? Well, for me, that means, like
I alluded to earlier, creating a method of operation within
(33:26):
the group set you set aside what you think is
the right things to do on a daily basis, and
how to do it. For me simply, I mean, I've
talked about this a lot, and these are the kind
of things that nobody really researches when you think about
hitting and pitching whatever. For me, establish relationships. You know,
it's about relationship building. It's about establishing trust, it's about
(33:49):
exchanging ideas, and then it's permitting constructive criticism to flow.
We've talked about it in the book. That's where you
start building culture. I mean, it's not about getting guys
that necessarily run faster or throw harder or hit the
ball farther are for the great in the uniform whatever.
It's about those things. And when you get those things
(34:09):
in order and everybody buys in, then you get into philosophically,
who are we drafting and why and who are we
not going to accept in this locker room, in this clubhouse,
who does not belong here? Or if you get somebody
that's a little bit tough, you've established such a wonderful
culture within the group that you think, well, if this
guy were to come here, that group, that group within
the clubhouse will be able to take him in and
(34:31):
assimilate him and get out of xtrap play from this
stell of this person exactly what we're looking for. But
it starts with that kind of stuff. It doesn't start
with necessarily scouting techniques or hitting techniques whatever. It starts
with personal team building techniques regarding people and how do
you bring people together. So for me, that's what I've done.
(34:53):
I mean I again, we talked about it in the book,
talking about back in the day in the eighties with
Gene Mak when he told me one day that I
had created a great atmosphere around Instructional League at Geenautry
Park had no idea what he was talking about. None.
You know, we were playing well. Yes, we taught baseball properly.
We had a nice structured day, We were very well organized.
We did all that stuff. You had good looking guys,
(35:15):
big bodies, fast bodies. But we established this method of
operation within the group. And it began with the fact
that we spoke with one another. We were straightforward with
one another. If I tell you the truth, you might
not like me for a week or ten days, but
if I lie to you, you're gonna hate me forever.
Those are the kind of things that bring groups together,
and then you have something to work off of, and
then of course you're going to get your philosophical scouts,
(35:37):
your philosophically player development, and then eventually your major league team.
But nobody spends enough time. I don't think. I don't
hear about it, really concerned about that stuff. And the
other thing I love. I love really good sports mental
skills coach. I had that with Ken Rivisa and all
this stuff you combine and bring together. Then eventually you
(35:58):
throw it out on the field and stuff begins to
look like it's supposed to look. But you have this basis,
this space foundation to work from. That you have to
work on, and it's so much more difficult to build
that than to put together a manual like The Angels
where the Cubs wig. That's easy. The more difficult part
(36:18):
is the relationship building and bringing people together and getting
them on the same page.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Okay, Joe, you brought up an idea I really want
to explore with you. He talked about culture and maybe
sometimes there's guys out there you bring in you think
we can make him fit into our culture. I'll go
back to when the Yankees under Joe Tory, they believe
they had such a good culture there, they actually thought
about signing Albert Bell, right, who's a different kind of cat.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
They almost lost Bernie Williams to the Red Sox.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
They wound up signing him, but they explored the idea
of signing Albert Bell, and Joe Torri was convinced, we
have such a good culture, we can make it work.
My question for you is how much should the manager
have a say in those kind of acquisitions? Talking about
breaking somebody down in terms of the skills, but breaking
(37:08):
somebody down in terms of where they fit into the culture.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
A lot, actually a lot. You're right for me as
a manager. As a coach, we don't see every other
team play every other day. Advanced scouts need to do
that and they need to evaluate these players appropriately. So
that's different. That is a scouts job. That is not
a manager's job. But the part about what I got
in my clubhouse and we're looking for what works in
here is my job, and you're one hundred percent right.
(37:33):
That's where they need to be consulted more consistently. I'll
give you an example. What was it with the Angels
in nineteen ninety five when we lost that huge lead
and we had that huge lead and then all of
a sudden went away and Mariners taught us Gary DiSarcina
slides in the second base. I'm coaching first base, and
I'm watching the slide and he puts his left there,
hand out, armout and does something with this stumb and
(37:55):
he's out for the year. So we have to move
Damien easily to shortstop. And now we already had rex
Hudler and Spike going there to play second base. So
I had done a nice job. Team was like four
thirteen games over in first place August fifth or something
like that. But no, we chose to go out and
bring We brought in Chicolean, and I'm not here to
indict chic Olean, but what happened was when we brought
him in did not necessarily fit into the clubhouse, but
(38:18):
also kind of upset Rex and Spike, who had been
there veterans and were very capable of holding down that position.
All of a sudden, all hell broke loose. Team was
not the same. Everything became fragmented because that was not
necessarily thought out completely. And quite frankly, that one example
has really helped me. You're talking, you're asking me questions
about advice I might give when you get caught in
(38:42):
a situation you need to bring to other people in.
I always think about that moment. So when you bring
somebody in, you got to know you don't think you
got to know that the people that already in the
clubhouse know that this player is going to make us better.
If you're bringing a lateral move in something straight across
the board, and it's not really obvious that the people
already there are not going to be as good, if
(39:04):
better than the guy you're bringing in, you can blow
the whole thing up. So that is exactly where you
need to consult with whom is in the clubhouse, and
I think, and I know a lot of times that's
not considered enough. You're gonna a lot of times, deed,
the people the front office will bring in somebody based
on the fact that they think they're analytically or a
better player than the guy that's already there, and it's
(39:25):
not enough. It's not enough to put you over the top,
and it's definitely enough to bring you down. So those
are the kind of things. Yes, and one day, man,
that one situation. Wow, did that teach me a lesson?
Nineteen ninety five, And I've used that as an example
I don't know how many times since then as a
coach and a manager when we want to bring guys
in during the season to either supplant somebody that's there
(39:49):
or somebody that had been injured. Do we already have
the answer in house? Do we have to do this?
All those things need to be considered.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, those are great points, especially it seems picking up
those kind of players in July. Let's face it, you're
trying to get in the playoffs. You have a good
team already. What's going to get us O?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Were the top?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I remember Billy being with Oakland actually talking about he
would actually loop in some of his key players, whether
it was Jason Giambi or Eric Chavez.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Just hey, I got a chance to get this guy.
What do you think you know?
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Just bouncing it off the player because you know they're
in the room and the manager knows that room better
than anybody. I'm curious, Joe, how much you got looped
into trade deadline discussions? And I go back, the most
famous one would be a roled as Chapman at twenty sixteen.
I mean, Theofstein did a ton of homework on the
background of a role as Chapman. A lot of Cubs
(40:36):
fans weren't real happy about the acquisition. He wanted to
make sure that Chapman fit into that clubhouse and what
kind of guy he was.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Talk to a lot of people. Were you involved in that?
Speaker 1 (40:46):
And have there been their cases where you were consulted
about some possible deadline moves, whether they were made or not.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Yeah, always normally was absolutely. I was not involved in
a whole lot of deadline moves. More with the Cubbies,
I mean, THEO was more active. It was a team
that had a chance to win World Series. We had
we won one, had a chance win three. Actually, so yeah,
there was a lot of that. I was there with
Erawaldis and when Eraldas showed up, I mean, of course
I liked e raw this. I mean as a pitcher,
it's outstanding. When he first came into I was told
(41:14):
to pitch him in multiple innings. It was okay. And
then I did that out of the shoot playing against
Seattle at Wrigley, and all of a sudden brought him
in the eighth. All of a sudden, the ball goes
in a left center field gap. He has the bad day,
and I find out the next day he hadn't done
that all year, which is my fault for not researching
that on my own. But those are the kind of
things that you want to know as a manager when
(41:34):
you bring somebody in. First, the research done on the
person the personality again, I don't have time to do that.
That is a front office situation. You're gonna then ask me,
does he fit into the clubhouse himself? Based on what
you've just said, the research that you've done, I don't
know this guy. I think we can handle. I would
say that, yes, we're going to be fine with this
guy within the clubhouse, and I think, like Johnny Lester
(41:56):
is going to be able to deal with this really well.
David Ross, we got the right kind of guys to
make this whole thing work. Yes, that is definitely part
of the conversation. And like I said, then he comes
in especially with like relief pitchers. As you're talking, we're
talking about a relief pitcher. You know, what has he done,
what is he comfortable with? How often can I use him?
These are the kind of things you'd want to know
(42:17):
right out of the shoot. And of course that'll be
based on a conversation I had with the player himself,
and I will, but sometimes it's not always They don't
even really know exactly what they're comfortable with, So you
got to you got ask somebody else. But all this
research has done, it's all given to the manager. Yes,
I was consulted, and THEO was really probably the most
active GM I had at that time of the year.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah, it's a good point about relief pitching.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
And go back to last year with Josh Hater, who
wasn't happy in Milwaukee, didn't want to pitch more than
one inn and got traded to the Padres and Bob
Melvin sat him down, they worked it out, and he's like, yeah,
I can pitch more than three outs if you need me.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So it's a great point. I think the managers.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Should be involved in making those kind of decisions, not
to say they get the final say, of course, but
we're coming up that time of year where every team
is going to look to add. There's no question about it.
I think it's there's not a lot of inventory on
the trade market. There's still a lot of teams in
the mix. Injuries have certainly played a part. I don't
know if it's going to be active, but there'll be
a lot of discussions and maybe there's a trade out
(43:17):
there that will turn it for somebody. But to circle
things back, we talked about Otani. We'll see if he
gets traded again. I don't think that he will. Based
on everything I know from Arti Morino holding out hope
that this team can make a run, I think their
chances of resigning him are very small. I would put
the Dodgers to me as a favorites right now. You
(43:37):
got the Mets, the Giants, Mariners. I mean, there's a
bunch of teams that will be in it. But knowing
the number is going to I think go above five
hundred million. The true suitor is probably only two or
three I think for Otani. So that being said, Joe
I brought super groups and I got to ask you,
do you have a super favorite supergroup?
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Oh my god, you're throwing it right out there right now.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
I'm assuming it's a successful one and not super heavy
with Mick Jagger, but a band that came together that's
still on your playlist. I would probably go to Crosby Still's,
Nash and Young. Does that qualify as a supergroup? I
mean they kind of came together, but individually, I mean
that's a case where the sum actually is greater than
(44:18):
the parts, and the parts are amazing.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Yeah, I'm big on them. I mean I was big
on his late sixties. What they got together finally at Woodstock.
Apparently big fan. I used to play them all the time.
I've had all their stuff, but I still play Crosby Stills,
Nash and then Young a lot. I'm big on all
of that stuff, you know, super groups. I mean, I
mean they all eventually came. I mean they can go
(44:41):
back to the Hollies. Okay, I love the Hollies. The
Hollies I will play the Hollies all the time. Long
cou Woman in a black dress one of my favorite
beginnings of any song, any generation, anytime. Oh yeah, I'm
a big Holies kind of a guy. Crean Ginger Baker
and all the dudes back, you know, clapped and all that.
I love cream. So there was it was. They kept
(45:02):
switching around all the Stevie win With another favorite of mine.
I love Stevie Wan would play with a lot of
different groups back then. So yeah, that's that time, that's
that period they were. They all seem to live in
Laurel Canyon. They all seemed to hang out with one
another that maybe they switched group like they switched partners
all the time. But the music was so good. And
(45:22):
I do, I mean I do. I've been on the
sixties kick this week. I went back to Flash Phelps
on the sixties this week because I just wanted to
go back in time. I'm in my pad here in Pennsylvania,
my daughter Sarah, my grandkids are here, and I just
got totally nostalgic. So like this morning, I had the
sixties on and a lot of those groups. Thought of
those dudes came on the radio this morning, and even
(45:44):
back to the Stones, I mean, back in sixty three,
sixty four, satisfaction, all that stuff. I mean, go on
and on. I mean, it's just was such a fertile
time it was. It was great stuff. But yeah, Crosby, Stills,
Nash and then Young love that stuff.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Well that's your answer the Angels to get into the postseason.
Their answer is to start playing like the Hollies. Yes,
bring it all together, boys, team chemistry.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
It matters in music and in baseball.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
I love it, man, it is it does. It does,
And I don't know that we consider that enough. I mean,
nobody talks about that. You're always talking about like individualism, individuals, branding,
you know, people persons, not groups. Teams. Like somebody brought
it to my attention. I watch it baseball uniforms. Is
it a uniform? Mean, it's supposed to be uniform. We
(46:32):
talked about that, and I'm guilty of the hoodie. I
get it. But different shoes, different belts, different everything. I mean,
at some point, then don't call it a uniform anymore.
Call it an a a uniform. It's a non uniform,
you know. So these are the kind of things bring
teams together, really personify the group. Put the individual in
the background again, and if you want to, that's where
(46:53):
you're gonna win. That's where you and listen. I'm all
about individuality. I want you to dress like you want
to dress. I want you to listen to music you
want to listen to. I want all of that absolutely.
But if you're out there as a team, a team, man,
play like the rets, be a team.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Joe, you just described to me why the job of
the manager now is more important than ever before. And
just look at Bruce Boche and the job he's doing
in Texas. Because we have a culture now in which
the individual is celebrated, a lot of people want to
make themselves stand out as being unique.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
And different, which is great.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
I mean, we love diversity and individuality and you want
to express your true self.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
But baseball is a team sport.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
So to make people believe in the greater good of
a team while still honoring your uniqueness, that takes a
special manager in today's game. Back in the day with
Gene mak no offense, there was a built in respect
for authority and for group think.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
If you will, I don't really like that word, but
you know what I'm getting that either.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Now the opposite is true, where you have to build
in that humility and unselfishness as it relates to thinking
about the greater good of a team above what you
could do as an individual. So that's why I think
job of the manager today, Man, it's harder than ever.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
You're right, but I also love it. It's very challenging on
a daily basis. The point would be that you have
That's why we talk about team meetings. That's where the
team meeting is important to me. Setting your philosophy out there,
putting your thoughts out there, how we going to act,
how we're going to act as a group, and how
we're going to police ourselves from within, circle ouras wagons.
(48:36):
We don't care what anybody else does. It doesn't really
matter to me. It's been my experience that everybody's always
worried about what everybody else is doing, and they want
to be like that, And my situation was always that
I wanted to be completely different. I'm talking about as
an organization and circle the wagons and let's personify that
particular thought or feel. That's where the meeting is important philosophically,
(48:58):
this is what I believe. This is what I think,
this is what I really believe is going to make
us better. I'm going to throw this out at you,
and now I want you guys to come back at
me and tell me what you think is accurate, inaccurate, whatever.
We'll discuss this. But by the time we leave this room,
I want us to have the same sheet of music
to work from. Our sheet of music. Not the Reds,
not the Giants, not the Yankees, it would be whomever
(49:22):
that team is. That sheet of music is the only
sheet that matters. And to me, that's not what's happening. Again,
I've talked about the socialistic approach to all this. Everybody
else wants to be like everybody else, and the individuality,
and again i'm talking with in an organization. I'm talking
as a group is not really necessarily sought after. We
(49:42):
want to be like every other group. We want the
same kind of methods of scouting, we want the same
kind of pictures. We want the sweet breaking ball is
a big thing. Right now. We want elevated fastball. We
want balls out of the ballpark. But now all of
a sudden, we want speed. We want guys to take
the extra base. We want pressure on the defense. We
want more athletic defenders because there's only two guys on
each side of the base, the catcher, the catcher, the
(50:05):
fact that you know, with the with the strike zone
popping up eventually maybe, but this one, Nie stuff is
really proliferated just based on stealing strikes. Everybody needs to
be the same, So that part I don't understand. And
if you've ever get a chance to really work within
a group again or run a group again, it would
be about what do we think is right independent of
(50:27):
everybody else, and let's be the best at that.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
I love it, love it.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
And to wrap things up here, I'm not sure if
you've got something to take us out from Graham Nash,
but I'll take.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Whatever you've got here, supergroup or not.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
I didn't go there, man, I'm sorry. I listened. Woodrow.
Wilson comes up with some stuff, good stuff once in
a while, and I went with Windrow this morning. Former
pres right, and it's very simple, but he was good
at this stuff. If you want to make enemies, try
to change something, and I guess that's really what it
comes down to. I mean, we all resist change, and
(51:03):
you know, I don't never want to come across as
that because I'm an advocate for change. But after you
whatever that is, you have to then reapply. You have
to refreeze whatever that change is. Okay, you unfreeze to change,
you make change, and you refreeze, and all of a sudden,
this is what we do and how we do it.
So if you want to make enemies, try to change something,
(51:25):
it's it's we all know what I'm talking about. It's
very obvious. But you have to unfreeze and refreeze change
to change something and then make it yours, whether it's
you individually, you as a group, and then you're eventually
going to have something that the entire group can hold
on to and prosper from. I believe that stuff.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Wow, I didn't think we were getting Woodrow Wilson, who
like the only Woodrow I have ever heard of.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
But yeah, it's a good call.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
I know, I know my fault.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
That's all good.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
And this has been a great discussion here about the
Angels and what lies ahead in these next three weeks,
especially with the deadline come up. Something to look forward to.
We'll be on top of it. A lot of fun, Joe.
We'll talk about probably the all Star Game, The Break
coming up next week.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Cool Brother, Thank you Man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hi there, welcome back to the latest episode of the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Me Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe. Listen.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
There's a lot of things we could talk about. We
get the All Star Game coming up. That's an exciting time,
and Seattle gets the game again for the first time
in about twenty two years.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
But man, we got to talk about your Angels again.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
They keep making news and it's not always for the
right reason.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
What a day the fourth of July was for the Angels.
Mike Trout goes on the.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Il with a busted bone in his wrist, Shoe O'tani
has to come out of the game, at least pitching wise,
because of a blister on the middle finger of his
pitching hand, and Anthony Wrendon has to come out of
the game because hey, it's a foul ball off his
shin maybe inside of the knee, and was actually on
crutches after the game.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh my goodness. I mean, it's been a rough go
for the Angels for years now. Joe, You've been there,
you know what it's like.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
First of all, I got to ask you about Mike
with Mike going now with that handmate bone injury, what
was your first reaction when you heard about it.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well, when I actually did see, I think I saw
the swing on replay, and when that happens, it's never good, right,
I mean, to take an actual swing. It's almost like
when he got hurt when he was handing the helmet
off to Brian Butterfield a couple of years ago. He's
coming from second to third base, hands him to the
helmet and all of a sudden his cap became an issue.
And then just whenever guy takes his swing and has
(01:35):
to leave the game, just purely by taking a swing,
it normally is not a good situation. So yeah, I
mean you think it's it's got to take a long time.
It's going to be long term. I'd be curious to
see if he's going to play the rest of the
season at all. I think he said he already said
that he will, But that's risks are bad man, riskstone
heel easily and risks bother you even after they're supposedly healed.
(01:57):
So yeah, that was really awkward to watch and see,
and I felt badly for him, But again, never a
good thing when a guy lead the game on a
swing with the wrist.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, those handmai bone injuries can go anywhere from four
weeks if you're lucky, to eight weeks if you do
need surgery, and depending on how bad the break is.
We don't know that Mike will find out the next
couple of days whether he needs surgery or not.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
But it's going to be at least a month.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I've got him down for missing probably at least forty games,
and it's just a shame.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I mean, Mike was starting to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
He's starting to heat up a little bit here in
the last couple of weeks, and now I look at
Mike's career and there's an element of what if to it, Joe,
because he's one of the greatest players of this generation,
and the hardest part for him has just been staying
on the field. The injuries are starting to mount up
where we're not seeing Mike trout enough on the baseball
(02:50):
field in the prime years of his career.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
He's going to turn thirty two next month.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
His career is actually comparable to that of Mickey Mantle,
and I just looked this up. Mantle at the same
age had nine seasons in which he played more than
one hundred and forty games. Mike Trout only has four
only four seasons entering now turning age thirty two next month,
in which he's played more than one hundred and forty games.
(03:16):
It's just a shame that we haven't got to see
and enjoy Mike Trout more than we should.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Part of the Mickey situation was at least the fans
got to see him in the postseason, the World Series
obviously with the Yankees, and and actually like Mickey really
became even more popular as he was there longer. The
fact that Michael has not been able to participate in
postseason really does. It hurts. It hurts somewhat of the
legacy because he's so good. But it's not his fault.
(03:45):
I mean organizationally that we just they have not really
achieved that level. So there's all those different items conspiring
against him. Of course, it's his body. Happens, Injuries do occur,
They do happen, and yeah, I mean, gosh, to play
that many years and not really be able to fulfill
(04:07):
at least one whatever that was hundreds for forty games
whatever annually. It's tough, man, But the body breaks down.
The body gets hurt. Listen, the guy's a specimen. I've
been around him. I mean, he takes care of himself.
He works his butt off, works his butt off in
the off season. He does everything he possibly can to
be on the field. But sometimes it just works out
that way. Some guys are prone to injury. And like
I said, one is just handing a helmet off the
(04:28):
butter butterfield and there goes a cap and there's a
just an innocuous swing. And also I think it also
indicates your typifies. I mean, you can't worry about guys
getting injured. I mean, injuries do occur, whether it's a
pitcher of position player, whatever. You do your best possible
method of training and attending to impossibly resting. But at
(04:49):
the end of the day, man, guys get hurt.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
No doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And you think about we're going to the All Star
Break here and you've got on the il Mike Trout,
Clayton Kershaw, Aaron Judge, Jacob de Gram.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Think about it, Guys get hurt.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
You're right, Joe, But you know, the greatest predictor of
injury is previous injuries. We're talking about four of the
best players in this generation, all in their thirties, all
with injury histories, all unable to play right now.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
It's just a shame.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
And speaking of shame, Mike Trout, as you mentioned here,
he doesn't have enough postseason experience, just that one series
the Angels got swept by Kansas City. In the last
six years, Mike Trout and shoe Heotani rank in the
top four and wins above replacement in baseball. You got
Mookie Betts one, Aaron Judge two, Otani three, Trout four.
(05:41):
So basically two of the four best players in baseball
have been on the same team for six years, and
that team is a combined fifty games under five hundred,
the eleventh worst record in baseball in six years that
Mike Trout and sho Heo Tani have been on the
same team. And now with this injury to Mike Trout,
(06:04):
we will never see a year, assuming Otani's going to
sign somewhere else, in which Trout and Otani played one
hundred and twenty games in the same season. I mean,
I just feel like, you know, we've been deprived of greatness,
whether it's in the postseason or watching the two of
them at the very best for a long period of time.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, I mean I had the privilege of watching it
in person. You know. Organizationally, it really comes down to that.
I mean the fact that the group, the Angels, have
not been able to put a playoff contending team together
for a while on any kind of consistent basis. So
you got like, you're talking about war Win's above replacement. Okay,
so it's a very cool stat. I get it. It
just means you're good. You know, you could just say
(06:46):
it's your good. It's an it equals that you are
a good baseball player stat. But overall, it's got to
be like a Win's above replacement organization. You got to
be able to figure it out and win on a
consistent annual basis beyond just a couple really bright shiny
objects like those two guys to be able to figure
it out pitching, defense, method methodology, organizational philosophy. And I'm
(07:11):
not just pointing at them. It happens to other organizations
as well. Right now, Cincinnati starting to ascend a bit,
Pittsburgh is ascending a bit. But it really comes down
to the group, and it always starts from from the top.
That's where all this stuff success. Permeates from I believe,
and so that's that's the whole thing with the Angels
that's unable to create and sustain or maintain an organizational
(07:36):
philosophy that season through bad moments. I think that's when
groups get really good, when you have this method where okay,
guys have heard things are are not particularly right right now,
but we're still gonna win somehow. We're going to figure
this out somehow. And I believe that could be done
and notes how I would have to sit down and
write down all my different thoughts in regards to how
to get that done and what creates that kind of
(07:59):
a mindset. But again, it's not just the Angels. Other
organizations have been kind of bitten by this particular thing.
And for me, it always starts with one group, one thought,
one one particular the head of the whole organization philosophically,
and it has to leak down from there for the
group to be good. Whether it's baseball, football, basketball, or
any industry in the United States, it always starts there philosophically,
(08:23):
I believe.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, I would agree with you.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I think what you're driving at here is stability, the
commitment to a philosophy I think the relationship between the
general manager, president baseball operations or whatever you want to
call it, and the manager in baseball is as important
as anything, but it's driven by above them ownership level.
And let's face it, the Angels and you were a
part of this, Joe, have had a lot of churn,
(08:46):
whether it's manager, coaching staff, general managers. Listen, I give
Ardy moreno credit. He's a type of owner that does
not want to go through a rebuild. But that also
means sometimes you're chasing your own tail, and the lack
of stability can just have you in a churn mode
that doesn't produce anything of consistency.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Well, I mean that lot of that has to do
with me. With rafting and farm system, you just can't
for me, just can't acquire your team free agent wise
on an annual basis. I mean, after all, you look
at the teams that have kind of turned it around,
whether it was the Cubs that I was there, a
lot of it was based under farm system and draft choices,
and the same thing's going on. I love watching Cincinnati
right now. Excuse me. I didn't even know any of
(09:28):
these guys. I've been watching them more recently and the
same thing with Pittsburgh. It's got to be a combination
of all factors. It just can't be one. And I
think for me, it's scouting and development of the lifeblood
of any organization, and to not really spend a lot
of time developing both, I don't think you could ever
set yourself up for a consistent positive results. You're going
(09:50):
to set yourself up with failure at some point. You know,
the Cardinals, for the most part, they've been really good
at that stuff. They're having a tough year this year,
but those are the kind of things that are tried
and trus I just think you have to stay with
that when you start coming outside of you know, normal patterns,
and the normal patents to me are scouting and development. Yes,
augment it with everything the free agency, augment it with
(10:12):
a great analytical department, but you have to have a
great coaching staff. You have to teach baseball. I mean,
I'm watching baseball games and there's really not a lot
of not good baseball being played in a lot of situations.
And I don't think that it's really necessarily considered important
by enough people before they get there. They're relying too
much on math to win games, and we're just talking
(10:33):
about wins above replacement that hasn't won anything for the
Angels in regards to two superstars. It's tried and true
playing baseball the proper correct way. And again, I could
sit down with anybody and I'll write everything down and
I'll give you exactly what I mean, whether it's a
pitching development, infield or development, outfield development, hitting development, whatever, development.
It really starts with that, and it goes before that scouting.
(10:55):
Who are you looking for and what are we looking for?
And let's not just have like try to throw stuff
against the wall and see if it sticks. Let's have
an actual plann exit what we're looking for. And I
think the better groups do things like that. So that's it.
I mean, I don't think it's complicated, quite frankly. I
just think you have to make a commitment to that,
and I think if you do, in my opinion, there's
(11:15):
no reason that you have to, you should be able
to retool on the fly. You don't have to go
through rebuild four years of we're going to stink, and
you tell your fan base are going to be bad
and just stay with us four years and that we're
going to be Okay, I don't like that either. There's
got to be a better way. I think there is
a better way to do both simultaneously, and to me,
that would be the appropriate way to do this.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, and I'm happy to see that in today's environment
here with the new rules, show where athleticism really is
coming to play. That you're seeing teams now with those
young players. The Reds are a great example that you
mentioned that are really playing well. And you know, listening
playing by the analytics game, a lot of times you're
going to buy into power. Right, not necessarily great baseball players,
(11:59):
but power sells. You want swing and miss on the mound.
You want guys who hit it out of the ballpark.
You put up with stouts. Those players tend to be
more expensive because analytics values power probably more than it should.
And the teams that were winning this year, it's interesting
to me at the halfway point, including ties seven of
the twelve teams in playoff position, we're bottom eleven in payroll.
(12:22):
Talking about the Rays, the Orioles, the Reds, the Diamondbacks,
the Brewers, the Guardians, the Marlins.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
What do they do?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
They all run the base as well, they all defend well,
they all have a lot of young players, and we've
seen teams like the Mets and the Cardinals and the
Padres of the older teams really struggling in the environment today.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
So I agree with you. You can flip things over.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
You don't have to just tell your fans for five
years you know we're gonna be bad, don't pay any
attention to us. But if you develop young players at drafting, yes,
but developing young players like the Rays are not great
actually at drafting players, but they're great at identifying players
and other organizations, and their coaching and their player development
is off thet's great. They always get the most out
(13:06):
of players who've been other places and not reached their ceiling.
That's part of it as well, not just drafting. So
I like where the game is heading because I think
we do have a more athletic game. I see more
aggressive base running now than I've seen since I don't know,
maybe going back to the eighties, certainly the early nineties.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So that's all good.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah, I think you're one hundred percent right. There is
an analytical game that's quite boring actually, and then there's
an athletic game that's quite exciting and you're describing for me,
I put on Cincinnati every night. I do, and I
just you know, I'm a latent fan. I mean, when
I was with the Cubbies, they were not very good,
but they had nice players. I was like, man, these
guys got some nice players, they got some good arms.
It's not just working, but there's an analytical game. And
(13:46):
like you said, that's a power game. That's a top
of the strike zone game. That's a game that's based
purely on math and predictions and large sample sizes and
the stuff. To me that you would do in the
offseason in order to acquire players. But when the seasons
in progress, especially like the new rules, the nooles are
the old rules quite quite frankly, the new rules are okay,
the base a little bit bigger, but all of a sudden,
(14:08):
the analytical departments have kind of gone athletic and they're saying,
go ahead, go ahead, and try to run, go and
put pressure on the other side. Oh wow, it really
does work when you when you cause the pitcher to
split his concentration and have to think about you as
well as the edders simultaneously, Well, that actually works. Were
when we're we're two guys on each side of the bag.
But if we're you know, kind of put them in
(14:28):
the right spot and play athletic defense, we could win
games like that too. I mean, it's an athletic game.
It's it's really trending away from analytics athletics and that
and that to me, that's that's why it's if it's
regaining popularity at all, because the fans are watching baseball
players play baseball again and again. There's a couple of
prime examples. There's teams that are very boring to watch,
The very analytically inclined teams are kind of boring, and
(14:51):
the ones that are trending towards athleticism are much more
exciting to watch. And I think that's what baseball wants,
it needs.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
It's showing in attendance has been a good year baseball wise.
Attendance is up for about twenty two of the thirty teams,
and overall attendance is up, and there's no doubt that
the style of play has something to do with that.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
All Right, we're gonna take a quick break and we
come back.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I want to put Joe on the spot and have
him pretend he's ardi moreno what do you do with
show hey Otani, now that you know Mike Trout is
not going to be in your lineup for the next
month or two, be right back, Welcome back to the
(15:36):
Book of Joe podcasts, Show Hey Otani. Joe just had
a month that I think, and this is not hyperbole,
might be the greatest month in baseball history. I say
that because in June, Otani slugged not ops slugged nine
fifty two. Okay, there's only been two players in the
(15:56):
history of the game that had any month where they
slugged that high with at least one hundred and twenty
five played appearances, and that's Babe Ruth and Joe DiMaggio.
Babe Ruth did it four times, but that was after
he gave up, gave up the whole pitching gig. So
Otani slugs ninety two and he also punches out eleven
(16:21):
batters per nine innings, makes five starts on the mound,
and has a three two era. I don't know that
there's ever been seriously a month of baseball better than
what shohey Otani did in June.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, agreed, hundred percent. So what do you do in
this situation for me, you got to you just describe
the probably the greatest player that's ever played the game
of baseball along with Mikey in the same team. Now,
what is the objective here? Is the objective to put
people in the stands based on the fact that you
have the greatest show on Earth based on two guys.
(16:57):
Or we're trying to win a world series. So if
you're if you're just purely content or satisfy with know
we got an annual basis. People are going to come
see you play because you have you know, for lack
of a better term, like the two most interesting freaks
and all the sport playing on the same team kind
of like a freak show baseball wise. Or you're trying
to win. So for me, if you're trying to win,
(17:17):
you and and that is the pain objective, and that
you got to trade show. You got to go herschel
walk on them. At least at least you got to
dip your toe in the water and find out what
can we get here? What are the potentialities right here?
How does it change organization around? Does it permit us
to really generate create a new philosophy that we believe
will work, will put us in play for years to come,
(17:41):
without taking a break, without slowing down, with not having
wait for four or five years. Could this one acquisition
or trade put us in the position to do something
like that? And if it does, I think you have
to do it. You absolutely have to do it, there's
no question. But if you're content with just having and
in your possession the two best players, the definitely the
best and maybe the second or third best player for
(18:01):
that has ever lived on your same team, content with
the fact that it's an attraction, then you go that way.
So I think you have to do define exactly what
we're trying to do, what we're looking for right here,
and then you go. Then the last point is everybody's
talking about that Otani, Go, do you actually trade Michael
and keep Otani? Because it's going to be hard financially
(18:22):
to do all that and then put all the other
pieces together on an annual basis in order to get
to the last game of the season and win it.
If that's your objective. If that's not your objective, then
you hold on to what you have and you go
about it in another way and accept the fact that
you probably are going to be good, but not good
enough to win the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, listen, I don't think Arty Moreno is going to
trade shoe hey Otani. I don't think that he wants
that as part of his history. I know he loves
the fact that he has this incredible asset that is
extremely entertaining.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Attendance is up with the Angels.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Otani is going to win his second MVP Award in
an Angel's uniform.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
He's going to continue to put up records and.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Anomalies that nobody has ever done before, and he can
do that in an Angel's uniform. And to be quite
frank with you, I think the Angels are four games
out of a wild card as we speak. They're not
out of it, but I will tell you that their
percentage of making the postseason is at about eleven percent.
Now is that enough for Ardie Morino to say, listen,
(19:27):
for all the reasons I just said, we have this
incredible asset, we love having him for historical entertaining reasons
in an Angel's uniform. And you know what, We're going
to get Mike Trout back in September, and maybe we'll
make a run with these two guys. I can see
the argument for keeping Otani. But I will tell you this, Joe,
I think he owes it to the fans and even
(19:48):
those who love Otani to at least explore the idea
of what he can get. I can't just take him
off the table the way that he did last year.
I understood that last year he was getting prospects back
and teams he wanted to make a Wan Soto deal
where guys are not quite established major league stars, and
already Marino wants stars in Anaheim. But I would at
(20:10):
least see what the market is for sho Aotani.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Wellether? You have to that's saying you have to dip
your tone the water. At least, at the very least,
you have to do that. I understand you know the
position in the wild card, and you pretty much you
know post All Star break you're gonna have a pretty
good idea. What kind of chance you have. It's going
to be the style of ball you're playing. Are you
able to match up against other teams? Are you playing
winning baseball? Are you catching the ball? You're pitching well
(20:38):
on a nightly basis? What's the shape of your bullpen,
what's the spree Tocord within the clubhouse. How do you
guys feel? I mean, that's those are the things that
I've always evaluated as a manager. Take, for instance, to
the fifteen Cups. Okay, you look at our record. We
eventually get to the NLCS and get beat up by
the Mets, but right after that break we kind of
got good. We made one adjustment. We put Addison that shortstop,
(21:02):
put Castro at second base Starlin, and all of a
sudden we started playing really well. And then we beat
the Giants I think it was August or I think
it was August, the four game sweep them in Chicago,
and then you know this is this, Okay, this can
actually work. So you need some kind of indicator sign
from the group within, from the daily process, from the energy,
(21:24):
all these things, just maybe even little signs. You know,
the Grand Slam and the ninth inning with two I
was in a full count that you win by a
run point one, one run, four to three or whatever
or eight to seven. You need some You need those
kind of moments in order to believe. And it really
comes down to that. It's one thing to be mathematically
whatever number of games behind, but you know what it
(21:45):
feels like, in your clubhouse. You know again, the spree
de corps. You know the togetherness, you know the energy,
you know all of that. You should know all of that,
and all of that makes sense whether or not you're
gonna be able to do something, because don't forget. You know,
even though you're saying you're this many of games behind,
you have to evaluate the other teams that are right
there with you. Seattle, allays get is getting better and
they've showed this kind of a pattern in the past
(22:08):
where they get better in a latter part of the season.
So there's a lot to evaluate besides just X number
of games behind a wild card.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, so let's take the temperature of the Angels right now.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
That's a good point you made. They've lost ten of
their last fourteen games. They have fourteen players on the
IL fourteen. They have a schedule in which twenty nine
of their next thirty nine games are against winning teams,
starting with the Dodgers this weekend and then the Yankees, Astros, Toronto, Atlanta,
(22:44):
San Francisco, Tampa, Bay Texas. It's a killer schedule. They
have nineteen games between now and the trade deadline. I
don't think Otani is going to pitch for fifteen days.
They have the All Star break coming up, and if
you want to give them some time to really recover
with that finger, well, I think if he's a six
(23:05):
starter coming out of the break, that's fifteen days off
to get him right. But it also means he's not
out there. He's your race boy. You just look at
where they're at. You take a temperature of the angels
and it's hard to see anything other than treading water,
and I think they would do well just to treade
water during this stretch here. They're a very vulnerable spot here.
(23:27):
The trout injury is just it's so big in this organization.
I think as much as arty Moreno wants to keep
sho Hey Otani, and I still think push comes to shove,
he is not going to trade Otani, but I do
think he has to at least explore the idea. I
know what he would want back, and that is ready
made major leaguers.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
He doesn't want lottery tickets.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
If you're going to trade for Otani, you're gonna have
to give Arty Moreno, name brand star players back. And
if you're a team that wants O'tani for the race,
how do you trade a star player, because then you're
weakening your own team. It's difficult to find a fit.
But again, you never know. You get in a room,
you start discussing it. We're about two and a half
weeks away from actually the Angels having to make that decision.
(24:12):
It's going to take some time to get negotiating, to
get teams involved, say a week before the deadline, at
least five days before the deadline.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
That's not much time. It's not much to be seen.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
So I don't think there's a lot can happen between
now and the deadline for the Angels to all of
a sudden say, hey, we look great.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
We got to keep this team together.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I think treading water at this point is the best
they can hope for, giving their schedule and health.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Well, I think actually the tougher schedule benefits them because
that should bring out the best of them. You want
to believe that. And they're also going to find out
can we play against the better team. So there's a
lot of stuff that'll be answered right there, And for me,
I would prefer that, I swear I would if I'm
in that same situation. I want to play better teams.
I want to find out exactly what we have right now,
and they have to be a minimum five hundred after
like you said, Tredding Water would be five hundred. The
(24:54):
goal would be I would say, you say, like twenty games,
nineteen or twenty games. If you could come out, you know,
a couple three or four games over five hundred during
that time, Wow, that would be pretty significant. If you
could do something like that, and then all of a sudden,
you're going to have a different feel about yourself and
the group. So yeah, there's a lot of questions that
will be answered in that timeframe. I'm here to tell
(25:15):
you it's not easy to just flip a switch and think,
all of a sudden, if you haven't playing good baseball,
that you're gonna start playing good baseball. It just doesn't
happen that way. There's got to be that seminal moment.
Something has to occur, whether the new player comes in
provide like with the de la Cruz, right with the
Cincinnati and all those other kids. That's that's what you need.
You need something significant. I like Moniac, I don't know
(25:38):
he plays a little I don't know this kid at all,
but this guy, to me has that kind of ability
it looks like just watching his swing and things that
I see him doing the game. So maybe he's gonna
step in there and provide something on a daily basis
that they didn't even know that they had. They kind
of do, but didn't know on a regular basis. Taylor
Word could pick it up because t Dub's are really
good and he hasn't been at that level yet this year,
(26:01):
So they got some really good players there still that
given an opportunity, might show a little bit more right now.
But you really, I think after this whatever twenty game stretch,
whatever you said about those better teams coming up right now,
just be honest with yourself after that and then you
can make a better determination.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, don't forget Joe Adell in that mix.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
He's gonna get some run here with with Mike down
and listen, he's made some nice adjustments.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
He was tearing up Triple A.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
You know, I know, you know, it's an offensive league
out there in the PCL. But he's earned his place
back here and the opportunity now presents itself for Joe
Adell to kind of establish himself. He's always had a
difficult go and you saw it Joe on the defensive
side of things. But like Moniac, who is the number
one pick, you know, stay patient with these guys. You
saw the ability, the athleticism, the power in hitters like that,
(26:51):
and not everybody hits the ground running like a Trout
or a Tatisse, So you know that the ceiling is
really high for players like that, and you're right, maybe
you guys like that can give them a jolt, So
that's what they need right now.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
It's difficult for.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Me to believe that the Angels are all of a
sudden going to play better than they have all season long,
which is what it's going to have to take for
the Angels to get to the postseason. For two games
over five hundred more than halfway into the season, and
they need to get to I think eighty six eighty
seven wins to be a factor in the playoff picture.
So they're gonna have to be better somehow without Mike
Trout for the next four to eight weeks.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I just want to say about I should have mentioned Joe.
I'm a big Joe Adell guy fan. This is a
great young man. I really enjoyed my time with him.
I enjoyed my conversations with him. The thing I love
about Joe Adele's he never makes excuses. He goes back
to Triple A just pounds it. He just pounds it.
You tell him we need you to work on something,
He works on something. He doesn't come back. He doesn't cry,
(27:45):
he doesn't call up front offices. He doesn't have his
agents call in all the time and say, hey, what's
up with Joe? Why? Why had she given Joe Moore love?
I like this man a lot. I met his dad
in a restaurant on the road, I think it was
in Chicago, and always, like I told Joe, I want
to meet your pop. I want to meet your mom,
because whoever raised you did a wonderful job. He's just
that good of a young man. So if you can
(28:06):
root for somebody, root for him, because I'll tell you
what if he does for you, this is his power
is oppressive. I mean, he could have as much power
as anybody playing the game right now. And again, if
you look at Buckston, Minnesota, when I first saw him,
he looked kind of like that, and then he wasn't
very good, and then he became very good, and then
everybody forgot about all the different faux positive had made
in the past. So if character and the person himself matters,
(28:32):
give Joe an opportunity because he's he's that good of.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
A guy, Well said, I agree with everything he said.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
He's just so impressive as a person, and you know,
the ability is there. So that'd be interesting to see
if the Angels start any kind of a run here,
because soon they're going to get Zach Nedo back, the
shortstop drafted just a couple of years ago. So you're
talking about Moniac, Netto and Adele in the lineup, and
in August you're going to get logan O hoppyback. Those
(28:58):
are four essentially rookies, really young guys, and maybe.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
That's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
We just talked about speeding and athleticism of the game,
and maybe this is the opportunity and more so the
energy that drives the Angels forward.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I mean, the odds I think are still against them.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
As you mentioned, it's it's the teams you're chasing now
as much as it is getting yourself figured out. But
young players, they're sitting on some good ones right now.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Joe No, yeah, absolutely, and it will be interesting when
these guys get that opportunity, and then you know, if
they could hold the fork down a bit and other
guys get well again, and then you could, you know,
bring the veteran back in there and hopefully augment the situation.
But look at Vodo's come back and Cincinnati and Joey's wonderful,
but it's not He's not the reason they're winning. He's
really the reason winning because of that young, energetic group,
(29:46):
athletic group that comes to play every night. That would
be the thing with the with these young angels. And
I don't know these kids other than Joe pretty good.
I don't know Ammoniac at all. I don't know Zach
at all. But that's exactly what you need right now.
And I'm telling you that's what turned it around for
the Cubbies is energetic second half and twenty fifteen, where
all of a sudden we were very athletic. We did
(30:06):
different things. We pitched really well, we caught the ball,
man did we catch the ball? And all that stuff matters.
So it just doesn't have to be about hitting. Everybody
wants it to be about hitting all the time. It
could be about energy, it could be about greater defense,
it could be about you know, winning three to two,
two to one, one nothing so much. It could be
about all that and all of a sudden momentum bills
And I'm sure you know that they already know this,
(30:29):
but that's what they're probably going to have to do.
You can't go out. They're expecting to put the big
loves on the heavyweight gloves and go to boxing. It's
the same thing with the Yankees right now. They got
to play an entire game and they have been so
you might have to make an adjustment, but who knows
in the long haul, the long term, it might actually
benefit the group.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Well, we've been talking a lot about essentially the baseball
equivalent of supergroups. We see them in rock and roll.
Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't work. And when we
get back, we will explore supergroups.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Okay, Joe.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
We talked about the Angels with Trout and Otani being
fifty games under five hundred, with those guys as teammates
for six years, they haven't been on the field together
nearly enough. Basically it hasn't worked. I mean, no playoff appearances.
It got me thinking about supergroups. And you remember back
(31:34):
in the seventies in the eighties, there were a lot
of supergroups right where you had guys who are established
stars in the music scene get together and say hey,
let's get our own band together.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I think about you probably forgot this back in twenty eleven.
Actually it wasn't that long ago. It was Mike Trout's
rookie year. Mick Jagger took a break from the Rolling
Stones and he put together a supergroup.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
He had Josh Stone, he had Dave Stewart.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
He put this supergroup together called Super Heavy, and they.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Cut twenty nine songs in ten days.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And needless to say, there was no second album from
Super Heavy.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
It just didn't work.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
You had great talents, there's no doubt about that, but
Mick Jagger is singing in Sanskrit.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
You know, probably not a.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Commercial success or an artistic success. But you know, it
doesn't always work when you have the most talented people together.
I think in baseball and like in music, there has
to be a chemistry and you can't force that. Sometimes
you try it, it doesn't happen. But Joe, you've been
on teams, whether they've been younger teams or established teams
(32:49):
that either had that chemistry or they didn't. So give
me your sense of what it takes when you have,
especially bringing together elite talent, to turning that into a
true team, and the difficulty of doing that.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
It's, yes, one hundred percent, you're on the money with
all of that. You don't need fifteen to twenty superstars
on it within a group group to win a championship,
not at all. For me, it is about creating culture.
And you know a lot of people scoff at that notion.
What does that mean? Well, for me, that means, like
I alluded to earlier, creating a method of operation within
(33:26):
the group set you set aside what you think is
the right things to do on a daily basis, and
how to do it. For me simply, I mean, I've
talked about this a lot, and these are the kind
of things that nobody really researches when you think about
hitting and pitching whatever. For me, establish relationships. You know,
it's about relationship building. It's about establishing trust, it's about
(33:49):
exchanging ideas, and then it's permitting constructive criticism to flow.
We've talked about it in the book. That's where you
start building culture. I mean, it's not about getting guys
that necessarily run faster or throw harder or hit the
ball farther are for the great in the uniform whatever.
It's about those things. And when you get those things
(34:09):
in order and everybody buys in, then you get into philosophically,
who are we drafting and why and who are we
not going to accept in this locker room, in this clubhouse,
who does not belong here? Or if you get somebody
that's a little bit tough, you've established such a wonderful
culture within the group that you think, well, if this
guy were to come here, that group, that group within
the clubhouse will be able to take him in and
(34:31):
assimilate him and get out of xtrap play from this
stell of this person exactly what we're looking for. But
it starts with that kind of stuff. It doesn't start
with necessarily scouting techniques or hitting techniques whatever. It starts
with personal team building techniques regarding people and how do
you bring people together. So for me, that's what I've done.
(34:53):
I mean I again, we talked about it in the book,
talking about back in the day in the eighties with
Gene Mak when he told me one day that I
had created a great atmosphere around Instructional League at Geenautry
Park had no idea what he was talking about. None.
You know, we were playing well. Yes, we taught baseball properly.
We had a nice structured day, We were very well organized.
We did all that stuff. You had good looking guys,
(35:15):
big bodies, fast bodies. But we established this method of
operation within the group. And it began with the fact
that we spoke with one another. We were straightforward with
one another. If I tell you the truth, you might
not like me for a week or ten days, but
if I lie to you, you're gonna hate me forever.
Those are the kind of things that bring groups together,
and then you have something to work off of, and
then of course you're going to get your philosophical scouts,
(35:37):
your philosophically player development, and then eventually your major league team.
But nobody spends enough time. I don't think. I don't
hear about it, really concerned about that stuff. And the
other thing I love. I love really good sports mental
skills coach. I had that with Ken Rivisa and all
this stuff you combine and bring together. Then eventually you
(35:58):
throw it out on the field and stuff begins to
look like it's supposed to look. But you have this basis,
this space foundation to work from. That you have to
work on, and it's so much more difficult to build
that than to put together a manual like The Angels
where the Cubs wig. That's easy. The more difficult part
(36:18):
is the relationship building and bringing people together and getting
them on the same page.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Okay, Joe, you brought up an idea I really want
to explore with you. He talked about culture and maybe
sometimes there's guys out there you bring in you think
we can make him fit into our culture. I'll go
back to when the Yankees under Joe Tory, they believe
they had such a good culture there, they actually thought
about signing Albert Bell, right, who's a different kind of cat.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
They almost lost Bernie Williams to the Red Sox.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
They wound up signing him, but they explored the idea
of signing Albert Bell, and Joe Torri was convinced, we
have such a good culture, we can make it work.
My question for you is how much should the manager
have a say in those kind of acquisitions? Talking about
breaking somebody down in terms of the skills, but breaking
(37:08):
somebody down in terms of where they fit into the culture.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
A lot, actually a lot. You're right for me as
a manager. As a coach, we don't see every other
team play every other day. Advanced scouts need to do
that and they need to evaluate these players appropriately. So
that's different. That is a scouts job. That is not
a manager's job. But the part about what I got
in my clubhouse and we're looking for what works in
here is my job, and you're one hundred percent right.
(37:33):
That's where they need to be consulted more consistently. I'll
give you an example. What was it with the Angels
in nineteen ninety five when we lost that huge lead
and we had that huge lead and then all of
a sudden went away and Mariners taught us Gary DiSarcina
slides in the second base. I'm coaching first base, and
I'm watching the slide and he puts his left there,
hand out, armout and does something with this stumb and
(37:55):
he's out for the year. So we have to move
Damien easily to shortstop. And now we already had rex
Hudler and Spike going there to play second base. So
I had done a nice job. Team was like four
thirteen games over in first place August fifth or something
like that. But no, we chose to go out and
bring We brought in Chicolean, and I'm not here to
indict chic Olean, but what happened was when we brought
him in did not necessarily fit into the clubhouse, but
(38:18):
also kind of upset Rex and Spike, who had been
there veterans and were very capable of holding down that position.
All of a sudden, all hell broke loose. Team was
not the same. Everything became fragmented because that was not
necessarily thought out completely. And quite frankly, that one example
has really helped me. You're talking, you're asking me questions
about advice I might give when you get caught in
(38:42):
a situation you need to bring to other people in.
I always think about that moment. So when you bring
somebody in, you got to know you don't think you
got to know that the people that already in the
clubhouse know that this player is going to make us better.
If you're bringing a lateral move in something straight across
the board, and it's not really obvious that the people
already there are not going to be as good, if
(39:04):
better than the guy you're bringing in, you can blow
the whole thing up. So that is exactly where you
need to consult with whom is in the clubhouse, and
I think, and I know a lot of times that's
not considered enough. You're gonna a lot of times, deed,
the people the front office will bring in somebody based
on the fact that they think they're analytically or a
better player than the guy that's already there, and it's
(39:25):
not enough. It's not enough to put you over the top,
and it's definitely enough to bring you down. So those
are the kind of things. Yes, and one day, man,
that one situation. Wow, did that teach me a lesson?
Nineteen ninety five, And I've used that as an example
I don't know how many times since then as a
coach and a manager when we want to bring guys
in during the season to either supplant somebody that's there
(39:49):
or somebody that had been injured. Do we already have
the answer in house? Do we have to do this?
All those things need to be considered.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, those are great points, especially it seems picking up
those kind of players in July. Let's face it, you're
trying to get in the playoffs. You have a good
team already. What's going to get us O?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Were the top?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I remember Billy being with Oakland actually talking about he
would actually loop in some of his key players, whether
it was Jason Giambi or Eric Chavez.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Just hey, I got a chance to get this guy.
What do you think you know?
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Just bouncing it off the player because you know they're
in the room and the manager knows that room better
than anybody. I'm curious, Joe, how much you got looped
into trade deadline discussions? And I go back, the most
famous one would be a roled as Chapman at twenty sixteen.
I mean, Theofstein did a ton of homework on the
background of a role as Chapman. A lot of Cubs
(40:36):
fans weren't real happy about the acquisition. He wanted to
make sure that Chapman fit into that clubhouse and what
kind of guy he was.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Talk to a lot of people. Were you involved in that?
Speaker 1 (40:46):
And have there been their cases where you were consulted
about some possible deadline moves, whether they were made or not.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Yeah, always normally was absolutely. I was not involved in
a whole lot of deadline moves. More with the Cubbies,
I mean, THEO was more active. It was a team
that had a chance to win World Series. We had
we won one, had a chance win three. Actually, so yeah,
there was a lot of that. I was there with
Erawaldis and when Eraldas showed up, I mean, of course
I liked e raw this. I mean as a pitcher,
it's outstanding. When he first came into I was told
(41:14):
to pitch him in multiple innings. It was okay. And
then I did that out of the shoot playing against
Seattle at Wrigley, and all of a sudden brought him
in the eighth. All of a sudden, the ball goes
in a left center field gap. He has the bad day,
and I find out the next day he hadn't done
that all year, which is my fault for not researching
that on my own. But those are the kind of
things that you want to know as a manager when
(41:34):
you bring somebody in. First, the research done on the
person the personality again, I don't have time to do that.
That is a front office situation. You're gonna then ask me,
does he fit into the clubhouse himself? Based on what
you've just said, the research that you've done, I don't
know this guy. I think we can handle. I would
say that, yes, we're going to be fine with this
guy within the clubhouse, and I think, like Johnny Lester
(41:56):
is going to be able to deal with this really well.
David Ross, we got the right kind of guys to
make this whole thing work. Yes, that is definitely part
of the conversation. And like I said, then he comes
in especially with like relief pitchers. As you're talking, we're
talking about a relief pitcher. You know, what has he done,
what is he comfortable with? How often can I use him?
These are the kind of things you'd want to know
(42:17):
right out of the shoot. And of course that'll be
based on a conversation I had with the player himself,
and I will, but sometimes it's not always They don't
even really know exactly what they're comfortable with, So you
got to you got ask somebody else. But all this
research has done, it's all given to the manager. Yes,
I was consulted, and THEO was really probably the most
active GM I had at that time of the year.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah, it's a good point about relief pitching.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
And go back to last year with Josh Hater, who
wasn't happy in Milwaukee, didn't want to pitch more than
one inn and got traded to the Padres and Bob
Melvin sat him down, they worked it out, and he's like, yeah,
I can pitch more than three outs if you need me.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So it's a great point. I think the managers.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Should be involved in making those kind of decisions, not
to say they get the final say, of course, but
we're coming up that time of year where every team
is going to look to add. There's no question about it.
I think it's there's not a lot of inventory on
the trade market. There's still a lot of teams in
the mix. Injuries have certainly played a part. I don't
know if it's going to be active, but there'll be
a lot of discussions and maybe there's a trade out
(43:17):
there that will turn it for somebody. But to circle
things back, we talked about Otani. We'll see if he
gets traded again. I don't think that he will. Based
on everything I know from Arti Morino holding out hope
that this team can make a run, I think their
chances of resigning him are very small. I would put
the Dodgers to me as a favorites right now. You
(43:37):
got the Mets, the Giants, Mariners. I mean, there's a
bunch of teams that will be in it. But knowing
the number is going to I think go above five
hundred million. The true suitor is probably only two or
three I think for Otani. So that being said, Joe
I brought super groups and I got to ask you,
do you have a super favorite supergroup?
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Oh my god, you're throwing it right out there right now.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
I'm assuming it's a successful one and not super heavy
with Mick Jagger, but a band that came together that's
still on your playlist. I would probably go to Crosby Still's,
Nash and Young. Does that qualify as a supergroup? I
mean they kind of came together, but individually, I mean
that's a case where the sum actually is greater than
(44:18):
the parts, and the parts are amazing.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Yeah, I'm big on them. I mean I was big
on his late sixties. What they got together finally at Woodstock.
Apparently big fan. I used to play them all the time.
I've had all their stuff, but I still play Crosby Stills,
Nash and then Young a lot. I'm big on all
of that stuff, you know, super groups. I mean, I
mean they all eventually came. I mean they can go
(44:41):
back to the Hollies. Okay, I love the Hollies. The
Hollies I will play the Hollies all the time. Long
cou Woman in a black dress one of my favorite
beginnings of any song, any generation, anytime. Oh yeah, I'm
a big Holies kind of a guy. Crean Ginger Baker
and all the dudes back, you know, clapped and all that.
I love cream. So there was it was. They kept
(45:02):
switching around all the Stevie win With another favorite of mine.
I love Stevie Wan would play with a lot of
different groups back then. So yeah, that's that time, that's
that period they were. They all seem to live in
Laurel Canyon. They all seemed to hang out with one
another that maybe they switched group like they switched partners
all the time. But the music was so good. And
(45:22):
I do, I mean I do. I've been on the
sixties kick this week. I went back to Flash Phelps
on the sixties this week because I just wanted to
go back in time. I'm in my pad here in Pennsylvania,
my daughter Sarah, my grandkids are here, and I just
got totally nostalgic. So like this morning, I had the
sixties on and a lot of those groups. Thought of
those dudes came on the radio this morning, and even
(45:44):
back to the Stones, I mean, back in sixty three,
sixty four, satisfaction, all that stuff. I mean, go on
and on. I mean, it's just was such a fertile
time it was. It was great stuff. But yeah, Crosby, Stills,
Nash and then Young love that stuff.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Well that's your answer the Angels to get into the postseason.
Their answer is to start playing like the Hollies. Yes,
bring it all together, boys, team chemistry.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
It matters in music and in baseball.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
I love it, man, it is it does. It does,
And I don't know that we consider that enough. I mean,
nobody talks about that. You're always talking about like individualism, individuals, branding,
you know, people persons, not groups. Teams. Like somebody brought
it to my attention. I watch it baseball uniforms. Is
it a uniform? Mean, it's supposed to be uniform. We
(46:32):
talked about that, and I'm guilty of the hoodie. I
get it. But different shoes, different belts, different everything. I mean,
at some point, then don't call it a uniform anymore.
Call it an a a uniform. It's a non uniform,
you know. So these are the kind of things bring
teams together, really personify the group. Put the individual in
the background again, and if you want to, that's where
(46:53):
you're gonna win. That's where you and listen. I'm all
about individuality. I want you to dress like you want
to dress. I want you to listen to music you
want to listen to. I want all of that absolutely.
But if you're out there as a team, a team, man,
play like the rets, be a team.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Joe, you just described to me why the job of
the manager now is more important than ever before. And
just look at Bruce Boche and the job he's doing
in Texas. Because we have a culture now in which
the individual is celebrated, a lot of people want to
make themselves stand out as being unique.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
And different, which is great.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
I mean, we love diversity and individuality and you want
to express your true self.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
But baseball is a team sport.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
So to make people believe in the greater good of
a team while still honoring your uniqueness, that takes a
special manager in today's game. Back in the day with
Gene mak no offense, there was a built in respect
for authority and for group think.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
If you will, I don't really like that word, but
you know what I'm getting that either.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Now the opposite is true, where you have to build
in that humility and unselfishness as it relates to thinking
about the greater good of a team above what you
could do as an individual. So that's why I think
job of the manager today, Man, it's harder than ever.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
You're right, but I also love it. It's very challenging on
a daily basis. The point would be that you have
That's why we talk about team meetings. That's where the
team meeting is important to me. Setting your philosophy out there,
putting your thoughts out there, how we going to act,
how we're going to act as a group, and how
we're going to police ourselves from within, circle ouras wagons.
(48:36):
We don't care what anybody else does. It doesn't really
matter to me. It's been my experience that everybody's always
worried about what everybody else is doing, and they want
to be like that, And my situation was always that
I wanted to be completely different. I'm talking about as
an organization and circle the wagons and let's personify that
particular thought or feel. That's where the meeting is important philosophically,
(48:58):
this is what I believe. This is what I think,
this is what I really believe is going to make
us better. I'm going to throw this out at you,
and now I want you guys to come back at
me and tell me what you think is accurate, inaccurate, whatever.
We'll discuss this. But by the time we leave this room,
I want us to have the same sheet of music
to work from. Our sheet of music. Not the Reds,
not the Giants, not the Yankees, it would be whomever
(49:22):
that team is. That sheet of music is the only
sheet that matters. And to me, that's not what's happening. Again,
I've talked about the socialistic approach to all this. Everybody
else wants to be like everybody else, and the individuality,
and again i'm talking with in an organization. I'm talking
as a group is not really necessarily sought after. We
(49:42):
want to be like every other group. We want the
same kind of methods of scouting, we want the same
kind of pictures. We want the sweet breaking ball is
a big thing. Right now. We want elevated fastball. We
want balls out of the ballpark. But now all of
a sudden, we want speed. We want guys to take
the extra base. We want pressure on the defense. We
want more athletic defenders because there's only two guys on
each side of the base, the catcher, the catcher, the
(50:05):
fact that you know, with the with the strike zone
popping up eventually maybe, but this one, Nie stuff is
really proliferated just based on stealing strikes. Everybody needs to
be the same, So that part I don't understand. And
if you've ever get a chance to really work within
a group again or run a group again, it would
be about what do we think is right independent of
(50:27):
everybody else, and let's be the best at that.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
I love it, love it.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
And to wrap things up here, I'm not sure if
you've got something to take us out from Graham Nash,
but I'll take.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Whatever you've got here, supergroup or not.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
I didn't go there, man, I'm sorry. I listened. Woodrow.
Wilson comes up with some stuff, good stuff once in
a while, and I went with Windrow this morning. Former
pres right, and it's very simple, but he was good
at this stuff. If you want to make enemies, try
to change something, and I guess that's really what it
comes down to. I mean, we all resist change, and
(51:03):
you know, I don't never want to come across as
that because I'm an advocate for change. But after you
whatever that is, you have to then reapply. You have
to refreeze whatever that change is. Okay, you unfreeze to change,
you make change, and you refreeze, and all of a sudden,
this is what we do and how we do it.
So if you want to make enemies, try to change something,
(51:25):
it's it's we all know what I'm talking about. It's
very obvious. But you have to unfreeze and refreeze change
to change something and then make it yours, whether it's
you individually, you as a group, and then you're eventually
going to have something that the entire group can hold
on to and prosper from. I believe that stuff.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Wow, I didn't think we were getting Woodrow Wilson, who
like the only Woodrow I have ever heard of.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
But yeah, it's a good call.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
I know, I know my fault.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
That's all good.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
And this has been a great discussion here about the
Angels and what lies ahead in these next three weeks,
especially with the deadline come up. Something to look forward to.
We'll be on top of it. A lot of fun, Joe.
We'll talk about probably the all Star Game, The Break
coming up next week.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Cool Brother, Thank you Man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
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