August 23, 2023 • 37 mins
Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental health podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer. On today’s episode, Jay sits down with life coach, motivational speaker and executive consultant Greg Harden who is best known for his work with 7-time Super Bowl champion quarterback Tom Brady, Heisman Trophy winner and Super Bowl MVP Desmond Howard, and 23-time Olympic gold medalist Michael Phelps. Brady, Howard, Phelps, and other athletes credit Harden with inspiring them to overcome obstacles and achieve success in their professional and personal lives.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome into Unbreakable, a mental health podcast with Jay Glazer.
I'm Jay Glazer, and we have an incredible guest today
that I cannot wait to learn from and have you
all learn from it as well.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
He has coached some of the most well known and most.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Decorated athletes of our time in those six inches between
our ears. But before I get to him, if you're
like many people, you may be surprised to learn that
one in five adults in this country experienced mental illness
last year, yet far too many failed to receive the
support they need.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Carolm.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Behavior health is doing something about it. They understand that
behavioral health is a key part of whole health, delivering
compassionate care that treats physical, mental, emotional, and social needs
and tandem Tarlem behavior health raising the quality of life
through empathy and action. We talked mental health a lot,
and that doesn't always mean issues. Mental health could lead
(01:05):
to mental wealth. It's what you do with what goes
on between your ears. And I always talk about you know,
we have physical coaches all the time that we all
lean into, but we need coaches for our mental health
as well, and there's just not too many of them
out there. This man, though he is coached Tom Brady's,
Michael Phelps, Desmond An Hours, Charles Woodson, the best of
(01:28):
the best of the best, and Greg Harden just came
out with a new book, Stay Sane in an Insane World.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
If as anybody who understands that, it is me, Greg.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I always talking about the roommates in my head, trying
to get them to play along nicely together.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
How you doing that? Oh man? Life is great, and
I'm just thrilled and humbled to have an opportunity to
chat with you, Jay. I appreciate it, mate.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So he's right there, and I just want to go
back and forth in each other because we have a
lot of mutual friends that were working.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
But you said life is great? Did you always think
like that? Are you ready for this? Yep? I'm too
dumb to beas I mean, I got tired of being
so smart that I was overthinking and overworking and anxious
all the time. So I decided that I really just
need to simplify things and keep it as simple as possible,
(02:16):
and I've been able to figure out what's working and
was not working, and was not working I attack relentlessly.
One of the things I loved in your book.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And we'll go back because I want people to know
your story also, But just something that really stood out
for me. And I've trained a lot of people with
mixed martial arts, and it wasn't until a couple of
years ago Randy Couture, who's you know, my partner doing
a lot of this stuff, Who's one of the baddest
dudes on the planet.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I was getting upset with one of more fighters.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It's just over and over and over it, Like, man,
how can I I'm explaining this? I thought in such
simple terms, and Randy pulled me aside. And Randy's coach,
he's won seven six world titles himself. I coached several
other world champions, and he says, hey, don't tell them
what you don't want, just tell.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Me to do one.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
And I saw that in your book. Really like that
stood out for me. One of the first things that
I read. Go a little bit more into that about
getting you know the most out of people in.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
The right way. Well, it's crucial that you give people
an opportunity to tell you who they are. And if
you don't ask questions and you're in there just running
your mouth telling them what they should think and what
they should do and how they should feel, you're stupid.
You've got to find out what's important to the person
you're talking to. You, what is their dream, what is
their idea, what is their definition of success, and help
(03:33):
them shape it in such a way that they include
mental fitness. See, we talk about mental health a lot,
and Folks, when I first started doing this thirty forty
years ago, mental health was it was hard to talk about.
So I started talking about mental fitness and training for
it and helping them understand that all of us are vulnerable.
(03:54):
But if we are serious about being a total person,
there are three levels of fitness, physical, mental, and spiritual.
Now I'm not going to define spiritual for you, but
I'll certainly define mental for you. If there was anyone
that would understand this, JSU and your gang and your team,
you ready, If we ask somebody from another planet to
(04:17):
h help help us understand physical fitness, they do. But
if you had to explain it to somebody, you'd be
talking about their strength, their endurance, their stamina, their cardiovascular
and until you say the word recovery, you don't understand
fitness and ask people, well, then what is mental fitness.
Well they'll go on and on and on and until
(04:38):
they understand we're talking about shortening, telescoping. How fast you recover.
All of us will experience trials and tribulations, all of
us will be broken hearted, grief laws, all of these
things attack us. But how fast do you recover? Because
you have to come back, and so what we want
(04:59):
to do it is shortened Jay's recovery time because he
go get you no anxiety, He's going you no depression.
That's gonna be talking about I've been waiting for your food.
I got you. Yeah, you're tie it good, come here.
Your recovery time, though, is what you've shortened, Jay, That's
what you've been doing, and that's what we train people
to do. The understand the greatest and you've alluded to
(05:23):
it and we've never talked, but you said it so clearly.
The greatest competition in your life. It's between your years.
There's no greater challenge.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So you're not just talking physical recovery. And by the way,
I love it, you said that, you know, ar gim unbreakable.
We recover you as far as we train you. I
was one of those meat head lifters and fighters who
trained four times a day and more and more more,
and then you know, as a coach a long time
ago saying, man, if you're healthier and that guy across
from you, you'll win. But it took me, you know,
obviously a while and to figure that out. You're not
(05:53):
just talking the physical recovery part. You're talking how do
I get these guys to mentally recover?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Bruh. So the people, everyone that came in my office
was not struggling with addiction or depression. They were trying
to figure out how to be the best possible performer
they could be. So I have to convince them that
if you're training physically, you have to train mentally and
you can't come in here like once every six months
(06:20):
and say I feel great. You got to come in
and get every chance you get. You've got to be
reinforced to reinvent yourself because everyone's got baggage and letting
go of yesterday's baggage or make you a better athlete,
becoming a more leading, with care, compassionate and concern will
make you a better athlete. Learning to ask for help
(06:42):
will make you a better athlete. So we're trying to
convince somebody if they are a better person, there'll be
a better athlete. I'm gonna go there, Jay, you're ready now,
I'm gonna tell you the secret that ain't a secret,
self love and self acceptance. Look, all of us want
four ags. We need attention, we need affection, we need approval,
(07:04):
and we need acceptance. Oftentimes we settle for attention and approval,
but you know, deep down in your heart what you
want is to be loved and to be accepted. But
until you put the word itself in front of it,
something that's missing. Self love and self acceptance must become
(07:24):
a mission and obsession for you to have the breakthrough
that helps you recover even faster from those moments of despair.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Like I alluded to earlier, You've worked with Tom Brady,
Michael Phillips, Charles Woodson, you know Doesn't Howard at University
of Michigan, and I know you work with other sports
teams a lot of other people as well. But how
did your journey get you there in the first place?
That they started leaning into you to help them strengthen
and recover those six inches between their ears and what's
(07:54):
behind the root.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Catge I was invited to work with the football team
at the University in Michigan, and I infiltrated a system
that was about getting the best out of people. Now,
I was invited because I was supposedly an expert on
alcohol and drugs. They asked me to come in and
give a speech. So I said, you want me to
(08:15):
come into a twenty minute raw rah forty minute we
love you, just say no to eighteen to twenty two
years old. That is the dumbest idea in the world,
I said. I said, so, let me give you the
names of some folks that might do it. And say,
but this is Michigan. I said, Yeah, I went to Michigan.
This is Michigan football. Yeah, I love Michigan football. That's nice,
but that doesn't work. They know more about alcohol and
(08:36):
drugs than we do and standing up in front of
the group and then you get to check a box
and say we did a lecture. Now, I can't have
my name associated with that show. The head coach at
the time was a gentleman named Shim Becker. Shim Becker
wanted to do, who is this fool? Let me meet him?
So I came in and suggested to him that if
(08:58):
he was serious, would be this part of the program,
and the whole program would include something that didn't exist yet,
integrated behavioral health care. That's what you know about behavioral
health care, but it didn't have that name at the time.
So I'm saying, if I come in and talk to
your team, I need to know who the physician is.
(09:20):
I need to know who the sport administrator is. I
need to know who the treatment facility is going to be.
I need to know how we're going to capture. If
a guy raised his hands, say oh my god, I
just have to confess I'm struggling mightily, what would happen
to him? And if you can't tell me what happened
to that kid, if you're talking about you kicking him out,
I don't want any parts of it. And that's how
(09:41):
it got started. The next thing, you know, several years
goes by and a new athletic director comes in and says,
we're not using you effectively, are we? I said it
was a matter of facture not. He said, well, what
would do differently? I say, instead of being focused on
pathology and some and getting in trouble, we need to
(10:02):
set it up so a young person could talk to
somebody other than a coach about daily living problems. Because
the biggest problem you have athletes in college is they
keep turning out to be human beings. Don't tell anybody,
but they're going through the same crap the rest of
those students are going through. Plus they have a full
two full time jobs being a student and being a
(10:25):
first class, top tier peak performing athlete. But who they
are yet, Yes, don't get me started. Your three hundred
pounds six foot inches tall, it looks like a grown
ass man and your kid an adolescent struggling to find
(10:46):
out who you are, where you fit. Then our needs
So if we can give them a vehicle by which
they could just talk to somebody, continuum up there. You
can come in and talk to me about you dating
a food, or you can come in and talk about
this depression is killing me. That's a wide range. Jay,
(11:08):
my mom and daddy crazy. I think I'm gonna kill
myself tonight. That's a wide range. I had a kid,
This is a true story. I had a kid who
was the top tier Lineman. He was that guy, all
big ten, all American, all boom boom boom, and it's
the night of the biggest game of his life and
(11:28):
he says, look, I've been trying not to bother you
about this, but a girl I'm dating, I mean, we
broke up and she's on drugs and she's suicidal and
she's sitting outside of my house every night with a gun. Yeah,
we got a twenty year old kid who's trying to
decide what he won't he won't tell anybody that's what
(11:51):
she's doing, and he doesn't want to get her in trouble.
But she's threatening herself, she's threatening him, she's threatening the community. Brah.
So historically that's not what he've been sent in for.
Does he have a cocaine problem? No, his girlfriend has
a cocaine problem and she's crossing the line. So having
(12:14):
built into a system an opportunity for young people to say,
I just need to just chat, I just need to vent.
Tom Brady didn't come in to see me because he
was in trouble. He came in because he was confused.
Desman Howard is coming in talking about say, man, I've
seen what you've done tell me what to do? What
(12:36):
there's a nineteen Jay? Judsemin Howard studied me for a
year before he talked to me. Wow, Wow, Judgmin Howard
studied me and says, look, I'm watching you and like,
I see what you've done, what you're doing. You're standing
in front of us and you I mean, they tell
you that we have a short attention span. They tell
you that you can only talk to us for ten minutes.
(12:58):
You keep us for forty five minutes straight and nobody
is saying anything except responding to what you want. How
do you do that? You sometimes look like a preacher,
sometimes you look like a comedian. Then you seem like
a bloody professor. Is that on purpose? Sir? What did
you say? How old are you? Nineteen years old? Jay
(13:20):
saying I want to do that. I want to do that.
I want to command the audience. I want to be
that guy. In addition to that, I want to be
the best player on the team. So when you talk.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
About Brady, I always say, with Tom Man, you want
to find out, you want to be the best.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Find out with the best doesn't do more than them,
And that's the secret of success.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Just how many people really want to put that work
in now, as many people want to put that work
in like Tom does.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
But give me what you think makes.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
The different than everybody else, and then be some of
the things you did to help talk get to this
love what.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Makes Tom Brady and a handful of other people that
you've alluded to different. They were hung that's predictable, but
they were humble, hungry and humble. Come on, Jay, I
mean hungry a bear coming out of hibernation, but humble
enough to say, school me, coach me. They were coachable, right, coachable, Jay,
(14:17):
that's who you love the guy Yo, Jim's coaching Bo
that's my guy.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, who don't take offense to it? Absolutely, come on.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
No, give it to me, give it to me straight.
They wanted it straight, No chaser, you understand that's what
they wanted. What happened with Tom was uh is legendary
and you'll hear me trailers and shows making it very clear.
It's nothing I can teach Tom Brady about football. There's
(14:45):
nothing I could tell Austin Matthews about hockey. There's nothing
I can tell Jay Jay j about being all the things.
But if what I can tell Tom Brady anyone that
will listened to me. It is to practice training, rehearse
giving one hundred percent, one hundred percent of the time
(15:06):
at everything you do, not just at MMA, not just
at lifting weights. But if you can give one hundred
percent of the stuff you don't even like what happens
to you when you get to the stuff you love.
You've got a habit of pushing yourself. Now you look
at Brady and you say, now, this is wind lose
a draw. He said, oh, what does that mean? I said,
(15:30):
Brady is the guy that will say, yeah, you said
one hundred percent, one hundred percent of the time, wind
lose or draw. I said, that means that, brother, if
I fight Jay Glazer and he beats my behind, and
he said, damn, I don't ever want to fight that guy.
You've done all you can do. All I'm asking you
(15:53):
is to do all you can do every time. And so,
if we're real honest, you can't give one hundred percent
of the time. But if it's your default mode, if
it's where you are always trying to go, if it
is in the back of your mind, if it's your
mindset is where, if it's how you roll my worst day,
(16:14):
it will be better than the average man's best day.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Bam, love that, man, Love that, absolutely love that. Yeah,
you know, these guys are not the most trusting people.
Who know, How did he get their trust? How do
you get Tom Brady's trust and Michael Trust's trust.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Tom Brady watched what Desmond Howard and I did and
Desmond Howard Desmond Howard created this secret weapon guy right
in Sports Illustrated nineteen Lotty Dottie show. Tom watched what
Desmond and I did and he talks to Desmond and
Desmond said, this is the guy. So he says, I
just want to chat with you because you know, I
(16:53):
know Desmond was getting ready to leave and you talk
to him, and right now I'm struggling mightily. This is
I don't know if I should stay here. Tom says,
you know, gee, I want to be the starting quarterback
at Michigan. So I'm coming to see you. And I
have to say, Tom, Tommy, I can't help you be
(17:14):
starting quarterback at Michigan, but I can help you believe
if no one else believes in your ass and who
you are and who you're going to become. He said,
Let's start right there. He said, let's go, Rob all
I can help you. I don't well, the coaches don't believe.
I don't care what your coaches think. What do you think?
How do you see yourself? If you don't believe in yourself,
(17:36):
why should anybody else? He said, Oh, this guy was
so coachable, so humble, so hungry. He would just take notes.
Here's the piece. You've got to decide, Tom Brady. You've
got to decide, Desmond Howard, that with or without football,
your life is going to be amazing. Once you decide that,
(17:59):
your life is want to be amazing. Whether this crap
works or not, we just increase the chances that are
the work. So everywhere is what you're saying. Tom Brady
looks at you, and you know me. I say, what
did I just say? Tom? He said, well, you said
that basically, I'm more than a football player, That's all
I said, Tom, you must not define yourself as a
(18:23):
football player. You are man, and what kind of man
do you want to be? How do you want to
operate as a human being? You got to decide you
want to go to the NFL. You need to screw
the NFL. What does the NFL stand for?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Long?
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Not for long. So until you understand that football is
a vehicle, a vehicle for you to get what you
want for self expression. If you don't use it and
play with it and turn it intoto an adventure, you're
going to be confused because if it's not working, you're
gonna be all said. Because football to work, I need
(19:01):
you to be so obsessed and we're trying to figure
out who you are and who you want to become
that football just falls in place. Does that fall under
you know? I saw in your book. I saw it
stood out to me.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Your control the controllables, yes, sir, Yes.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Sir jay. I can't control what your coaches think. I
can't control what your coach is are gonna do. You
can't control how old is your coach Tommy uh forty five,
fifty years old. What's the likelihood of your coach changing zero? Okay?
So what can you change my attitude? How I'm approaching it,
(19:36):
how I'm responding to it, How you control your response,
control your reactions. That's what you can control. You can't
control them. That's what it means. You teach people to
go to the space where they have control over something
you can barely control yourself but you better fight for that.
You better focus like a laser beam on controlling how
(19:59):
you respond and you react.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And I'll get into Michael Phelps.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Is Michael Phelps my dude, And I just want to
let you know Michael Phelps and I have both come
out and talk about our mental health issues, our depression
and anxiety, and it's been one of the best things
I think that ever could happen to either one of us,
because he and I I had him on this podcast
and we were so wrong and vulnerable. He and I've
known each other because we did Subway commercial together about
(20:24):
fifteen years ago.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Set along those lines and we lost touch, but.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
We started talking about our mental health issues. Suddenly we
had a battle buddy. He reaches out to me. I
reached out to him when I'm struggling. I've reached out
to him when he's struggling. He reaches out to me.
We have his team, but also we reach out to
each other when we're not struggling, so we always know
about So he's very special to me as well.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I know he is.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
When I hit him when I told him I'm you
know I'm having you.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
On, he said, that's my dude. That's my guy.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
He's the best. So he went crazy. So I know
why he's so special. Tell me how you guys linked
up and what you did with him.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Jay, way back to what fifteen years ago, you were
a totally different person. I created a character that everybody
I thought everybody I remember that commercial. I was just
trying to have fun to hide my pain. You were
gifted and talented doing I was the sport administrator for
(21:19):
swimming and diving and water polo, right, and so we
had to hire a new head coach for the men's
swim team. Show. This guy named Bob Bowman. Resume shows up,
and I'm fascinated by this person. Now I'm not thinking
clearly at the time, Michael Phelps. I'm not even thinking
(21:39):
that the resume is not saying Michael Phelps, and I'm
looking at Bowman's profile and saying, God, I like this guy.
We got an interview and he comes in the interviews.
I say, Hey, this is the guy I want to hire.
The rest of y'all make your decision, but this is
the guy I want to hire. We hire Bob Bowman.
Who shows up with Bob Bowman Michael. So, now Michael
(22:01):
Phelps is the volunteer assistant coach for a college swim
team and in the pool with our guys, kicking a
bus and training them. So Bob Bowman turns out to
be the most coachable coach oxymoron, the most coachable coach
I'd ever worked with. Wow, that's a heck of a
(22:24):
statement there, Broh. I'll say it to anyone. And I've
had some great coaches and some great experiences with Bob
Bowman said, tell me what works what doesn't work, because
it was a different age group and population that he
had never worked with before. So he said, you know,
you're my administrator. I'll listen to you. So your goes
(22:45):
by and he says, you know, me and Michae are
going through some challenge. I mean we're talking to Michael
is now eighteen nineteen years old, and you know he
hasn't had a childhood. He was identified at twelve years
old to be an op to be an Olympian. By fifteen,
(23:05):
he's in the Olympics. By eighteen nineteen, he's back in
the Olympics, kicking ass and taking names. But rebellion has
to take place, so he begins to act out and
like Bob is so confused. He's never been like this,
He's always been perfect, and yet why is this going on?
(23:26):
And he can't understand that he's saraghate daddy. Who else
you gonna rebel against? Bob? Bob's my guy. I'm coaching Bob.
And he said, do you think he could talk to Michael?
I said in the hold on player, Mike was gonna
come talk to me. He said yeah, but I said,
I tell you what you tell Mike that I'm fascinated
with him and want to meet him and then tell
(23:47):
him who I've worked with. And he said, okay, Mike
comes in and we're kicking it. Jay Glazer, listen carefully.
I treated Michael Phelps like he was a person, like
he was just another cat off the block. Stars fool,
I say, stars all the time. Come on, sit down,
Let's talk about who you are, where you're going, and
(24:08):
how you're going to get this and what are you
going to do besides gold medals? And when are you
gonna give one hundred percent again? Because you're not and
you look at me like what I said. So we
just would kick it. We would just kick it, and
we wouldn't talk about anything except his life and he did,
who gets to do that? He doesn't get to do that.
(24:30):
I don't care that you're all this and that you
know what's working what's not working in your life. And
that door opens up. It opens up a door to
talk about life and the pursuit of happiness. So what
would make you happy? Other than I said, what if
you got rich and famous? For real? What would you
do with power and influence? JG. That's what I talked
(24:51):
about to my guys. So what happens if this turns
into everything you dreamed of? Now, what are you gonna
do when you're gonna let go of daddy issues? When
you're gonna go yesterday's baggage? I said, bro, I can
make you'll be a better a better Olympian if you
let go of some of this crap you dragging around
(25:13):
everywhere you go. So I wasn't a therapist, but I
convinced him that he might need to tug this. Yeah.
So we've had a great relationship since he was a
teenager and ann Arbor trying to find himself, and that's
what he was trying to do. And I was fortunate
enough to be there and he allowed me to talk
(25:37):
to him like he was a regular guy.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
I think people like this, you know, they definitely need
somebody like you, because for me.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I wasn't able to feel loved from the inside out
because of depression anxiety, so I didn't understand what that was.
But as a result of that, it forced me to
go seek out and do I thought such great things
to get some love from the outside in, and I
hope they meet in the middle. But the biggest shock
to my system was quote unquote made it. I wasn't
(26:06):
happy my wallet was not an antidepressant. Holy crowd, you
gotta be kidding me, Like and unicorns like that outside
stuff wanting to make me happy for the inside.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Out where we find out from Jay, listen to what
you just said. Remember I talked about the four a's,
the need for attention, affection, approval, and acceptance. I've made
a fool of myself, but I've also risen to the
highest levels possible pursuing attention, affection, approval, and acceptance. That's
(26:40):
what you did. That quest for the four a's lead
you down this path, which ended up being an amazing path.
It doesn't cure you, it doesn't fix you, but it
sets you up to be on a mission. Your mission
comes from your challenges. Your pain has created a monster
on mental health, SAIDs no doubt.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Scars make me who I am, no doubt. I don't
talk about my successes, talk about my scars. I've bragg
to myself.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
About my stars, not my success.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And I think you know that's a big thing we
to teach people is that, look, we're not all going
to have a success that we want.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
We all got scars. If you lean in on those scars,
those could be your superpowers. And so being able to
help people have a clue, and they get tired of clues.
Tell me what to do. Sometimes they say you need
to obsess over self more and self acceptance. You're obsessed
with everybody else's love. You're obsessed over about everybody else's acceptance.
(27:39):
When at some point will you deliberately and intentionally decide
I'm gonna love me, I'm gonna love me so much
how I can afford to love you? Because where we
go is like how I feel about me, flaws and
all flaws and all until flaws and all's is and included.
(28:01):
That's not love and love and love till you give
it away. But the love I'm giving away is simply counterfeit. Ah, well,
how do I get there? Because I want to be
a loving, caring, compassionate, concerned individual. And in order to
give the love that I want to give, it has
to come from my heart. It has to be something
(28:24):
I can see in me. It doesn't mean it's perfect.
It will never be perfect. And the pursuit of perfection
is a fool's game. But pursuing perfection is fun. But
if you try to be perfect, you'll kill yourself. You'll
never be happy. We talk about the approval part.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
It wasn't until this past year that I learned how
important it is for me to build up my self approval,
not approval from everybody else. But man, I'm fifty three.
I didn't learn how to start doing that till recently.
I wish I met you freaking twenty five years ago.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Bruh, Jay, I'm like thin was in my middle thirties,
and I'm giving all these speeches and the lectures and
talking about four a's and like I was. For some reason,
it hit me, my god, I'm almost forty years old
and I'm still seeking my father's approval. What am I doing?
(29:16):
And so I decided that my father loved me, he
just didn't know how to show it. I decided my
father believed in me, but he didn't. His fault he
didn't know who his father was, how no one modeled
for him how to be a daddy. And instead of
me just pissing and moaning about what he didn't do,
I had to start looking at what did he do
(29:38):
and what did he do right? And what he did wrong.
I've articulated it, I've chronicled, I've documented it. But when
am I going to allow him to be a human
being instead of daddy who I woulded? So I decided
my father loved me and that he thought highly of me,
and I said I'm done with that, said with a guy.
(30:00):
Two weeks later, the phone rings, Hey, this is your pops.
Hey Dad, how you doing? He said, I'm all right?
Uh you know what's going on? I said, I'm surprised.
Why are you calling me? And he said, well I
needed your advice. Who's this? No, really can't speak to
my father? He said, no, you're you're funny, And I
(30:22):
figured you know more about this than I do. Who
is this? Bruh? I'm I'm flipping out because he's never
talked like this. But whatever God you believe in sent
me a message that food. You did the right thing
forgiving your father for not being perfect. Let him go
of yesterday's baggage. My father called and told me he
(30:43):
loved me and admired and respected me. I was, I
mean on All I did was decide two weeks ago
to stop holding him hostage to what he didn't do.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Open up your universe, right Lord, you started tracting something
that you never thought you'd Yeah, that's beautiful, that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
That's a truth car for a lot of us. Bruh.
But let's think about how it applies. Who thinks of
m MVP. Who sits up and thinks about what am
I going to do next? It comes up with stuff
that's gonna save lives. Okay, my next mission is to
save more lives day. That's what you did. And so
(31:25):
everybody run around trying to how great you are you
you can't hear that. But what you can hear is
what you have done is concrete and measurable. You've changed lives,
You've saved lives, and you did it on purpose.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
I do thank you so much. I wouldn't been able
to accept that years ago, I can now is that right?
Being of services that keeps being the blue? It's beautiful
and a dream. Do you be doing this Never I
didn't have those cars, I couldn't do it.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Bro if it didn't have the scars, you wouldn't be
able to look at the cat who you as you've
never been in and say I can relate, and they
say I think you can. They know you can, Because Brad,
this ain't about us. This book is not about me.
There's stories in this book, short to the point knocking
(32:16):
on your butt, stories that you will love and somebody
you don't have to read it all that you can
just open that bad boy up and a story will
pop you in your eyes. Right. But there's short stories
to tell people that the history of folks who are
like them, everybody I talk about. This is not about athletics.
This is not about stars. It's about people struggling to
(32:39):
find out who they are and how to become the
world's greatest expert on one subject themselves.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Beautiful, give me before I let you go, two more questions, Yes, sir,
give me another message in this book that you want
to make sure the world to hear that I haven't
brought up. The most important piece is that no one
can make you feel inferior without your permission, eleanor Roosevelt.
Eleanor Roosevelt, no one can make you feel inferior without
(33:10):
your permission.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Okay, let me tell you what Greg rope. Your self
worth and self esteem must not be based on performance
or external facts. How I feel about me and got
jack to do it with how much money you're gonna
pay me. Ain't got jack to do with how many
touchdowns are right? How I feel about me has to
(33:33):
go beyond what you think of me. What I'm doing,
I'm gonna fight for it, and you gotta be willing
to fight for it and not just hope and wish.
Is this is your podcast X rated? Oh you can
say whatever the fuck you want. Are you ready for this? Jay?
(33:54):
Don't don't judge me. All right, You're in my office
and you're telling me I wish I'm so tired of
being this way. And I would say to you, Jay,
we've been together now for like several months, maybe a
couple of years. So I want you to do an experiment.
I want you tonight. I want you to go home.
I want you to take your left hand. I want
(34:17):
you to to wish in it. I want you to
take your right hand, Jay, and I want you to
shit in it, and then come back and tell me
which one got Field first. I got issues, I know,
I know, I'll do it well. Wish in one hand
and shouldn't the other, and tell me which gets Field first.
Wishing is not enough. You gotta fight for your sanity.
(34:38):
You gotta do whatever it takes to stay sane in
this crazy world. They can't have me, they can't have you. Jay.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Love that, man, I love that. If we do, we
let all the external voices shape us, and they become
the truth. When they don't have a good truth, we
can decide what that truth.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Is the voices in you, he'd be lying, You're all
fucked up. Yeah, and I am worthy. Fuck you. I'm
fucked up, but I'm good with my fucked upness. Now.
I'm worthy of being fucked up. Predictable, predictable, therefore manageable.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
So my last question, he is I asked every one
of my guests, give me your unbreakable moment for me.
Unbreakable is man a thing that was supposed to break
you but didn't, and you came to the other side
of that tunnel, and as a result of that, and
you're stronger forever.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
There are quite a few, but let me tell you
this one, this one piece. I think I was in
about twenty three years old, and I was living a
lifestyle that was definitely predictable in terms of what could happen.
You're going to be locked up, You're going to be dead,
you're going to be hospitalized somehow, some it ain't gonna
(35:54):
end right the way you going. And I looked and
I prayed, and I pondered, and I said, to God,
if I live to see twenty five, if I live
to see twenty five, there must be some purpose for
my life. Yeah. I hit twenty five, and oops, I
hadn't made a promise. And at twenty five, I said,
(36:17):
at twenty five, I've been on this I've been on
a planet for a quarter of a century. I should
at least have a clue who I am and where
I'm trying to go. And so my first purpose was
the pursuit of purpose. Man.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I love that dude. I've loved connecting with you. I've
known about you for a long time. You weren't such
a secret weapon of me I knew about you for
a long time. I'm really glad we got a chance
to connect. Young Read's book Stay Sane in an Insane World,
how to control the controllables and thrive. And I love
that too, because you're not just surviving, you're thriving there.
It is, man, I really appreciate it. Congratulate you on
(36:54):
that as well. That's huge. You know, one thing when I,
you know, wrote this book, is how many people you
end up helping and power and shaving.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
You don't know what's watching.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Somewhere else, and it's it's I just want you to
be able to love yourself up for that because you're
probably helping somebody right now that you have no idea about.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
Man, So who do you make it real clear? I
don't buy books. I'm getting ready to buy your book,
but I hope people will appreciate that her picking mine up.
But Brad, thank you. I am so humbled and pleased
to have this opportunity to chat with you and get
a clue about who you are for real, my dude,
(37:33):
I appreciate you so much. Gain Greg Harden, everybody, thank
you so much, my dude.
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome into Unbreakable, a mental health podcast with Jay Glazer.
I'm Jay Glazer, and we have an incredible guest today
that I cannot wait to learn from and have you
all learn from it as well.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
He has coached some of the most well known and most.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Decorated athletes of our time in those six inches between
our ears. But before I get to him, if you're
like many people, you may be surprised to learn that
one in five adults in this country experienced mental illness
last year, yet far too many failed to receive the
support they need.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Carolm.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Behavior health is doing something about it. They understand that
behavioral health is a key part of whole health, delivering
compassionate care that treats physical, mental, emotional, and social needs
and tandem Tarlem behavior health raising the quality of life
through empathy and action. We talked mental health a lot,
and that doesn't always mean issues. Mental health could lead
(01:05):
to mental wealth. It's what you do with what goes
on between your ears. And I always talk about you know,
we have physical coaches all the time that we all
lean into, but we need coaches for our mental health
as well, and there's just not too many of them
out there. This man, though he is coached Tom Brady's,
Michael Phelps, Desmond An Hours, Charles Woodson, the best of
(01:28):
the best of the best, and Greg Harden just came
out with a new book, Stay Sane in an Insane World.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
If as anybody who understands that, it is me, Greg.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I always talking about the roommates in my head, trying
to get them to play along nicely together.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
How you doing that? Oh man? Life is great, and
I'm just thrilled and humbled to have an opportunity to
chat with you, Jay. I appreciate it, mate.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So he's right there, and I just want to go
back and forth in each other because we have a
lot of mutual friends that were working.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
But you said life is great? Did you always think
like that? Are you ready for this? Yep? I'm too
dumb to beas I mean, I got tired of being
so smart that I was overthinking and overworking and anxious
all the time. So I decided that I really just
need to simplify things and keep it as simple as possible,
(02:16):
and I've been able to figure out what's working and
was not working, and was not working I attack relentlessly.
One of the things I loved in your book.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And we'll go back because I want people to know
your story also, But just something that really stood out
for me. And I've trained a lot of people with
mixed martial arts, and it wasn't until a couple of
years ago Randy Couture, who's you know, my partner doing
a lot of this stuff, Who's one of the baddest
dudes on the planet.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I was getting upset with one of more fighters.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It's just over and over and over it, Like, man,
how can I I'm explaining this? I thought in such
simple terms, and Randy pulled me aside. And Randy's coach,
he's won seven six world titles himself. I coached several
other world champions, and he says, hey, don't tell them
what you don't want, just tell.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Me to do one.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
And I saw that in your book. Really like that
stood out for me. One of the first things that
I read. Go a little bit more into that about
getting you know the most out of people in.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
The right way. Well, it's crucial that you give people
an opportunity to tell you who they are. And if
you don't ask questions and you're in there just running
your mouth telling them what they should think and what
they should do and how they should feel, you're stupid.
You've got to find out what's important to the person
you're talking to. You, what is their dream, what is
their idea, what is their definition of success, and help
(03:33):
them shape it in such a way that they include
mental fitness. See, we talk about mental health a lot,
and Folks, when I first started doing this thirty forty
years ago, mental health was it was hard to talk about.
So I started talking about mental fitness and training for
it and helping them understand that all of us are vulnerable.
(03:54):
But if we are serious about being a total person,
there are three levels of fitness, physical, mental, and spiritual.
Now I'm not going to define spiritual for you, but
I'll certainly define mental for you. If there was anyone
that would understand this, JSU and your gang and your team,
you ready, If we ask somebody from another planet to
(04:17):
h help help us understand physical fitness, they do. But
if you had to explain it to somebody, you'd be
talking about their strength, their endurance, their stamina, their cardiovascular
and until you say the word recovery, you don't understand
fitness and ask people, well, then what is mental fitness.
Well they'll go on and on and on and until
(04:38):
they understand we're talking about shortening, telescoping. How fast you recover.
All of us will experience trials and tribulations, all of
us will be broken hearted, grief laws, all of these
things attack us. But how fast do you recover? Because
you have to come back, and so what we want
(04:59):
to do it is shortened Jay's recovery time because he
go get you no anxiety, He's going you no depression.
That's gonna be talking about I've been waiting for your food.
I got you. Yeah, you're tie it good, come here.
Your recovery time, though, is what you've shortened, Jay, That's
what you've been doing, and that's what we train people
to do. The understand the greatest and you've alluded to
(05:23):
it and we've never talked, but you said it so clearly.
The greatest competition in your life. It's between your years.
There's no greater challenge.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So you're not just talking physical recovery. And by the way,
I love it, you said that, you know, ar gim unbreakable.
We recover you as far as we train you. I
was one of those meat head lifters and fighters who
trained four times a day and more and more more,
and then you know, as a coach a long time
ago saying, man, if you're healthier and that guy across
from you, you'll win. But it took me, you know,
obviously a while and to figure that out. You're not
(05:53):
just talking the physical recovery part. You're talking how do
I get these guys to mentally recover?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Bruh. So the people, everyone that came in my office
was not struggling with addiction or depression. They were trying
to figure out how to be the best possible performer
they could be. So I have to convince them that
if you're training physically, you have to train mentally and
you can't come in here like once every six months
(06:20):
and say I feel great. You got to come in
and get every chance you get. You've got to be
reinforced to reinvent yourself because everyone's got baggage and letting
go of yesterday's baggage or make you a better athlete,
becoming a more leading, with care, compassionate and concern will
make you a better athlete. Learning to ask for help
(06:42):
will make you a better athlete. So we're trying to
convince somebody if they are a better person, there'll be
a better athlete. I'm gonna go there, Jay, you're ready now,
I'm gonna tell you the secret that ain't a secret,
self love and self acceptance. Look, all of us want
four ags. We need attention, we need affection, we need approval,
(07:04):
and we need acceptance. Oftentimes we settle for attention and approval,
but you know, deep down in your heart what you
want is to be loved and to be accepted. But
until you put the word itself in front of it,
something that's missing. Self love and self acceptance must become
(07:24):
a mission and obsession for you to have the breakthrough
that helps you recover even faster from those moments of despair.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Like I alluded to earlier, You've worked with Tom Brady,
Michael Phillips, Charles Woodson, you know Doesn't Howard at University
of Michigan, and I know you work with other sports
teams a lot of other people as well. But how
did your journey get you there in the first place?
That they started leaning into you to help them strengthen
and recover those six inches between their ears and what's
(07:54):
behind the root.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Catge I was invited to work with the football team
at the University in Michigan, and I infiltrated a system
that was about getting the best out of people. Now,
I was invited because I was supposedly an expert on
alcohol and drugs. They asked me to come in and
give a speech. So I said, you want me to
(08:15):
come into a twenty minute raw rah forty minute we
love you, just say no to eighteen to twenty two
years old. That is the dumbest idea in the world,
I said. I said, so, let me give you the
names of some folks that might do it. And say,
but this is Michigan. I said, Yeah, I went to Michigan.
This is Michigan football. Yeah, I love Michigan football. That's nice,
but that doesn't work. They know more about alcohol and
(08:36):
drugs than we do and standing up in front of
the group and then you get to check a box
and say we did a lecture. Now, I can't have
my name associated with that show. The head coach at
the time was a gentleman named Shim Becker. Shim Becker
wanted to do, who is this fool? Let me meet him?
So I came in and suggested to him that if
(08:58):
he was serious, would be this part of the program,
and the whole program would include something that didn't exist yet,
integrated behavioral health care. That's what you know about behavioral
health care, but it didn't have that name at the time.
So I'm saying, if I come in and talk to
your team, I need to know who the physician is.
(09:20):
I need to know who the sport administrator is. I
need to know who the treatment facility is going to be.
I need to know how we're going to capture. If
a guy raised his hands, say oh my god, I
just have to confess I'm struggling mightily, what would happen
to him? And if you can't tell me what happened
to that kid, if you're talking about you kicking him out,
I don't want any parts of it. And that's how
(09:41):
it got started. The next thing, you know, several years
goes by and a new athletic director comes in and says,
we're not using you effectively, are we? I said it
was a matter of facture not. He said, well, what
would do differently? I say, instead of being focused on
pathology and some and getting in trouble, we need to
(10:02):
set it up so a young person could talk to
somebody other than a coach about daily living problems. Because
the biggest problem you have athletes in college is they
keep turning out to be human beings. Don't tell anybody,
but they're going through the same crap the rest of
those students are going through. Plus they have a full
two full time jobs being a student and being a
(10:25):
first class, top tier peak performing athlete. But who they
are yet, Yes, don't get me started. Your three hundred
pounds six foot inches tall, it looks like a grown
ass man and your kid an adolescent struggling to find
(10:46):
out who you are, where you fit. Then our needs
So if we can give them a vehicle by which
they could just talk to somebody, continuum up there. You
can come in and talk to me about you dating
a food, or you can come in and talk about
this depression is killing me. That's a wide range. Jay,
(11:08):
my mom and daddy crazy. I think I'm gonna kill
myself tonight. That's a wide range. I had a kid,
This is a true story. I had a kid who
was the top tier Lineman. He was that guy, all
big ten, all American, all boom boom boom, and it's
the night of the biggest game of his life and
(11:28):
he says, look, I've been trying not to bother you
about this, but a girl I'm dating, I mean, we
broke up and she's on drugs and she's suicidal and
she's sitting outside of my house every night with a gun. Yeah,
we got a twenty year old kid who's trying to
decide what he won't he won't tell anybody that's what
(11:51):
she's doing, and he doesn't want to get her in trouble.
But she's threatening herself, she's threatening him, she's threatening the community. Brah.
So historically that's not what he've been sent in for.
Does he have a cocaine problem? No, his girlfriend has
a cocaine problem and she's crossing the line. So having
(12:14):
built into a system an opportunity for young people to say,
I just need to just chat, I just need to vent.
Tom Brady didn't come in to see me because he
was in trouble. He came in because he was confused.
Desman Howard is coming in talking about say, man, I've
seen what you've done tell me what to do? What
(12:36):
there's a nineteen Jay? Judsemin Howard studied me for a
year before he talked to me. Wow, Wow, Judgmin Howard
studied me and says, look, I'm watching you and like,
I see what you've done, what you're doing. You're standing
in front of us and you I mean, they tell
you that we have a short attention span. They tell
you that you can only talk to us for ten minutes.
(12:58):
You keep us for forty five minutes straight and nobody
is saying anything except responding to what you want. How
do you do that? You sometimes look like a preacher,
sometimes you look like a comedian. Then you seem like
a bloody professor. Is that on purpose? Sir? What did
you say? How old are you? Nineteen years old? Jay
(13:20):
saying I want to do that. I want to do that.
I want to command the audience. I want to be
that guy. In addition to that, I want to be
the best player on the team. So when you talk.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
About Brady, I always say, with Tom Man, you want
to find out, you want to be the best.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Find out with the best doesn't do more than them,
And that's the secret of success.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Just how many people really want to put that work
in now, as many people want to put that work
in like Tom does.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
But give me what you think makes.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
The different than everybody else, and then be some of
the things you did to help talk get to this
love what.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Makes Tom Brady and a handful of other people that
you've alluded to different. They were hung that's predictable, but
they were humble, hungry and humble. Come on, Jay, I
mean hungry a bear coming out of hibernation, but humble
enough to say, school me, coach me. They were coachable, right, coachable, Jay,
(14:17):
that's who you love the guy Yo, Jim's coaching Bo
that's my guy.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, who don't take offense to it? Absolutely, come on.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
No, give it to me, give it to me straight.
They wanted it straight, No chaser, you understand that's what
they wanted. What happened with Tom was uh is legendary
and you'll hear me trailers and shows making it very clear.
It's nothing I can teach Tom Brady about football. There's
(14:45):
nothing I could tell Austin Matthews about hockey. There's nothing
I can tell Jay Jay j about being all the things.
But if what I can tell Tom Brady anyone that
will listened to me. It is to practice training, rehearse
giving one hundred percent, one hundred percent of the time
(15:06):
at everything you do, not just at MMA, not just
at lifting weights. But if you can give one hundred
percent of the stuff you don't even like what happens
to you when you get to the stuff you love.
You've got a habit of pushing yourself. Now you look
at Brady and you say, now, this is wind lose
a draw. He said, oh, what does that mean? I said,
(15:30):
Brady is the guy that will say, yeah, you said
one hundred percent, one hundred percent of the time, wind
lose or draw. I said, that means that, brother, if
I fight Jay Glazer and he beats my behind, and
he said, damn, I don't ever want to fight that guy.
You've done all you can do. All I'm asking you
(15:53):
is to do all you can do every time. And so,
if we're real honest, you can't give one hundred percent
of the time. But if it's your default mode, if
it's where you are always trying to go, if it
is in the back of your mind, if it's your
mindset is where, if it's how you roll my worst day,
(16:14):
it will be better than the average man's best day.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Bam, love that, man, Love that, absolutely love that. Yeah,
you know, these guys are not the most trusting people.
Who know, How did he get their trust? How do
you get Tom Brady's trust and Michael Trust's trust.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Tom Brady watched what Desmond Howard and I did and
Desmond Howard Desmond Howard created this secret weapon guy right
in Sports Illustrated nineteen Lotty Dottie show. Tom watched what
Desmond and I did and he talks to Desmond and
Desmond said, this is the guy. So he says, I
just want to chat with you because you know, I
(16:53):
know Desmond was getting ready to leave and you talk
to him, and right now I'm struggling mightily. This is
I don't know if I should stay here. Tom says,
you know, gee, I want to be the starting quarterback
at Michigan. So I'm coming to see you. And I
have to say, Tom, Tommy, I can't help you be
(17:14):
starting quarterback at Michigan, but I can help you believe
if no one else believes in your ass and who
you are and who you're going to become. He said,
Let's start right there. He said, let's go, Rob all
I can help you. I don't well, the coaches don't believe.
I don't care what your coaches think. What do you think?
How do you see yourself? If you don't believe in yourself,
(17:36):
why should anybody else? He said, Oh, this guy was
so coachable, so humble, so hungry. He would just take notes.
Here's the piece. You've got to decide, Tom Brady. You've
got to decide, Desmond Howard, that with or without football,
your life is going to be amazing. Once you decide that,
(17:59):
your life is want to be amazing. Whether this crap
works or not, we just increase the chances that are
the work. So everywhere is what you're saying. Tom Brady
looks at you, and you know me. I say, what
did I just say? Tom? He said, well, you said
that basically, I'm more than a football player, That's all
I said, Tom, you must not define yourself as a
(18:23):
football player. You are man, and what kind of man
do you want to be? How do you want to
operate as a human being? You got to decide you
want to go to the NFL. You need to screw
the NFL. What does the NFL stand for?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Long?
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Not for long. So until you understand that football is
a vehicle, a vehicle for you to get what you
want for self expression. If you don't use it and
play with it and turn it intoto an adventure, you're
going to be confused because if it's not working, you're
gonna be all said. Because football to work, I need
(19:01):
you to be so obsessed and we're trying to figure
out who you are and who you want to become
that football just falls in place. Does that fall under
you know? I saw in your book. I saw it
stood out to me.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Your control the controllables, yes, sir, Yes.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Sir jay. I can't control what your coaches think. I
can't control what your coach is are gonna do. You
can't control how old is your coach Tommy uh forty five,
fifty years old. What's the likelihood of your coach changing zero? Okay?
So what can you change my attitude? How I'm approaching it,
(19:36):
how I'm responding to it, How you control your response,
control your reactions. That's what you can control. You can't
control them. That's what it means. You teach people to
go to the space where they have control over something
you can barely control yourself but you better fight for that.
You better focus like a laser beam on controlling how
(19:59):
you respond and you react.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And I'll get into Michael Phelps.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Is Michael Phelps my dude, And I just want to
let you know Michael Phelps and I have both come
out and talk about our mental health issues, our depression
and anxiety, and it's been one of the best things
I think that ever could happen to either one of us,
because he and I I had him on this podcast
and we were so wrong and vulnerable. He and I've
known each other because we did Subway commercial together about
(20:24):
fifteen years ago.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Set along those lines and we lost touch, but.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
We started talking about our mental health issues. Suddenly we
had a battle buddy. He reaches out to me. I
reached out to him when I'm struggling. I've reached out
to him when he's struggling. He reaches out to me.
We have his team, but also we reach out to
each other when we're not struggling, so we always know
about So he's very special to me as well.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I know he is.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
When I hit him when I told him I'm you
know I'm having you.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
On, he said, that's my dude. That's my guy.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
He's the best. So he went crazy. So I know
why he's so special. Tell me how you guys linked
up and what you did with him.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Jay, way back to what fifteen years ago, you were
a totally different person. I created a character that everybody
I thought everybody I remember that commercial. I was just
trying to have fun to hide my pain. You were
gifted and talented doing I was the sport administrator for
(21:19):
swimming and diving and water polo, right, and so we
had to hire a new head coach for the men's
swim team. Show. This guy named Bob Bowman. Resume shows up,
and I'm fascinated by this person. Now I'm not thinking
clearly at the time, Michael Phelps. I'm not even thinking
(21:39):
that the resume is not saying Michael Phelps, and I'm
looking at Bowman's profile and saying, God, I like this guy.
We got an interview and he comes in the interviews.
I say, Hey, this is the guy I want to hire.
The rest of y'all make your decision, but this is
the guy I want to hire. We hire Bob Bowman.
Who shows up with Bob Bowman Michael. So, now Michael
(22:01):
Phelps is the volunteer assistant coach for a college swim
team and in the pool with our guys, kicking a
bus and training them. So Bob Bowman turns out to
be the most coachable coach oxymoron, the most coachable coach
I'd ever worked with. Wow, that's a heck of a
(22:24):
statement there, Broh. I'll say it to anyone. And I've
had some great coaches and some great experiences with Bob
Bowman said, tell me what works what doesn't work, because
it was a different age group and population that he
had never worked with before. So he said, you know,
you're my administrator. I'll listen to you. So your goes
(22:45):
by and he says, you know, me and Michae are
going through some challenge. I mean we're talking to Michael
is now eighteen nineteen years old, and you know he
hasn't had a childhood. He was identified at twelve years
old to be an op to be an Olympian. By fifteen,
(23:05):
he's in the Olympics. By eighteen nineteen, he's back in
the Olympics, kicking ass and taking names. But rebellion has
to take place, so he begins to act out and
like Bob is so confused. He's never been like this,
He's always been perfect, and yet why is this going on?
(23:26):
And he can't understand that he's saraghate daddy. Who else
you gonna rebel against? Bob? Bob's my guy. I'm coaching Bob.
And he said, do you think he could talk to Michael?
I said in the hold on player, Mike was gonna
come talk to me. He said yeah, but I said,
I tell you what you tell Mike that I'm fascinated
with him and want to meet him and then tell
(23:47):
him who I've worked with. And he said, okay, Mike
comes in and we're kicking it. Jay Glazer, listen carefully.
I treated Michael Phelps like he was a person, like
he was just another cat off the block. Stars fool,
I say, stars all the time. Come on, sit down,
Let's talk about who you are, where you're going, and
(24:08):
how you're going to get this and what are you
going to do besides gold medals? And when are you
gonna give one hundred percent again? Because you're not and
you look at me like what I said. So we
just would kick it. We would just kick it, and
we wouldn't talk about anything except his life and he did,
who gets to do that? He doesn't get to do that.
(24:30):
I don't care that you're all this and that you
know what's working what's not working in your life. And
that door opens up. It opens up a door to
talk about life and the pursuit of happiness. So what
would make you happy? Other than I said, what if
you got rich and famous? For real? What would you
do with power and influence? JG. That's what I talked
(24:51):
about to my guys. So what happens if this turns
into everything you dreamed of? Now, what are you gonna
do when you're gonna let go of daddy issues? When
you're gonna go yesterday's baggage? I said, bro, I can
make you'll be a better a better Olympian if you
let go of some of this crap you dragging around
(25:13):
everywhere you go. So I wasn't a therapist, but I
convinced him that he might need to tug this. Yeah.
So we've had a great relationship since he was a
teenager and ann Arbor trying to find himself, and that's
what he was trying to do. And I was fortunate
enough to be there and he allowed me to talk
(25:37):
to him like he was a regular guy.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
I think people like this, you know, they definitely need
somebody like you, because for me.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I wasn't able to feel loved from the inside out
because of depression anxiety, so I didn't understand what that was.
But as a result of that, it forced me to
go seek out and do I thought such great things
to get some love from the outside in, and I
hope they meet in the middle. But the biggest shock
to my system was quote unquote made it. I wasn't
(26:06):
happy my wallet was not an antidepressant. Holy crowd, you
gotta be kidding me, Like and unicorns like that outside
stuff wanting to make me happy for the inside.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Out where we find out from Jay, listen to what
you just said. Remember I talked about the four a's,
the need for attention, affection, approval, and acceptance. I've made
a fool of myself, but I've also risen to the
highest levels possible pursuing attention, affection, approval, and acceptance. That's
(26:40):
what you did. That quest for the four a's lead
you down this path, which ended up being an amazing path.
It doesn't cure you, it doesn't fix you, but it
sets you up to be on a mission. Your mission
comes from your challenges. Your pain has created a monster
on mental health, SAIDs no doubt.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Scars make me who I am, no doubt. I don't
talk about my successes, talk about my scars. I've bragg
to myself.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
About my stars, not my success.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And I think you know that's a big thing we
to teach people is that, look, we're not all going
to have a success that we want.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
We all got scars. If you lean in on those scars,
those could be your superpowers. And so being able to
help people have a clue, and they get tired of clues.
Tell me what to do. Sometimes they say you need
to obsess over self more and self acceptance. You're obsessed
with everybody else's love. You're obsessed over about everybody else's acceptance.
(27:39):
When at some point will you deliberately and intentionally decide
I'm gonna love me, I'm gonna love me so much
how I can afford to love you? Because where we
go is like how I feel about me, flaws and
all flaws and all until flaws and all's is and included.
(28:01):
That's not love and love and love till you give
it away. But the love I'm giving away is simply counterfeit. Ah, well,
how do I get there? Because I want to be
a loving, caring, compassionate, concerned individual. And in order to
give the love that I want to give, it has
to come from my heart. It has to be something
(28:24):
I can see in me. It doesn't mean it's perfect.
It will never be perfect. And the pursuit of perfection
is a fool's game. But pursuing perfection is fun. But
if you try to be perfect, you'll kill yourself. You'll
never be happy. We talk about the approval part.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
It wasn't until this past year that I learned how
important it is for me to build up my self approval,
not approval from everybody else. But man, I'm fifty three.
I didn't learn how to start doing that till recently.
I wish I met you freaking twenty five years ago.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Bruh, Jay, I'm like thin was in my middle thirties,
and I'm giving all these speeches and the lectures and
talking about four a's and like I was. For some reason,
it hit me, my god, I'm almost forty years old
and I'm still seeking my father's approval. What am I doing?
(29:16):
And so I decided that my father loved me, he
just didn't know how to show it. I decided my
father believed in me, but he didn't. His fault he
didn't know who his father was, how no one modeled
for him how to be a daddy. And instead of
me just pissing and moaning about what he didn't do,
I had to start looking at what did he do
(29:38):
and what did he do right? And what he did wrong.
I've articulated it, I've chronicled, I've documented it. But when
am I going to allow him to be a human
being instead of daddy who I woulded? So I decided
my father loved me and that he thought highly of me,
and I said I'm done with that, said with a guy.
(30:00):
Two weeks later, the phone rings, Hey, this is your pops.
Hey Dad, how you doing? He said, I'm all right?
Uh you know what's going on? I said, I'm surprised.
Why are you calling me? And he said, well I
needed your advice. Who's this? No, really can't speak to
my father? He said, no, you're you're funny, And I
(30:22):
figured you know more about this than I do. Who
is this? Bruh? I'm I'm flipping out because he's never
talked like this. But whatever God you believe in sent
me a message that food. You did the right thing
forgiving your father for not being perfect. Let him go
of yesterday's baggage. My father called and told me he
(30:43):
loved me and admired and respected me. I was, I
mean on All I did was decide two weeks ago
to stop holding him hostage to what he didn't do.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Open up your universe, right Lord, you started tracting something
that you never thought you'd Yeah, that's beautiful, that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
That's a truth car for a lot of us. Bruh.
But let's think about how it applies. Who thinks of
m MVP. Who sits up and thinks about what am
I going to do next? It comes up with stuff
that's gonna save lives. Okay, my next mission is to
save more lives day. That's what you did. And so
(31:25):
everybody run around trying to how great you are you
you can't hear that. But what you can hear is
what you have done is concrete and measurable. You've changed lives,
You've saved lives, and you did it on purpose.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
I do thank you so much. I wouldn't been able
to accept that years ago, I can now is that right?
Being of services that keeps being the blue? It's beautiful
and a dream. Do you be doing this Never I
didn't have those cars, I couldn't do it.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Bro if it didn't have the scars, you wouldn't be
able to look at the cat who you as you've
never been in and say I can relate, and they
say I think you can. They know you can, Because Brad,
this ain't about us. This book is not about me.
There's stories in this book, short to the point knocking
(32:16):
on your butt, stories that you will love and somebody
you don't have to read it all that you can
just open that bad boy up and a story will
pop you in your eyes. Right. But there's short stories
to tell people that the history of folks who are
like them, everybody I talk about. This is not about athletics.
This is not about stars. It's about people struggling to
(32:39):
find out who they are and how to become the
world's greatest expert on one subject themselves.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Beautiful, give me before I let you go, two more questions, Yes, sir,
give me another message in this book that you want
to make sure the world to hear that I haven't
brought up. The most important piece is that no one
can make you feel inferior without your permission, eleanor Roosevelt.
Eleanor Roosevelt, no one can make you feel inferior without
(33:10):
your permission.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Okay, let me tell you what Greg rope. Your self
worth and self esteem must not be based on performance
or external facts. How I feel about me and got
jack to do it with how much money you're gonna
pay me. Ain't got jack to do with how many
touchdowns are right? How I feel about me has to
(33:33):
go beyond what you think of me. What I'm doing,
I'm gonna fight for it, and you gotta be willing
to fight for it and not just hope and wish.
Is this is your podcast X rated? Oh you can
say whatever the fuck you want. Are you ready for this? Jay?
(33:54):
Don't don't judge me. All right, You're in my office
and you're telling me I wish I'm so tired of
being this way. And I would say to you, Jay,
we've been together now for like several months, maybe a
couple of years. So I want you to do an experiment.
I want you tonight. I want you to go home.
I want you to take your left hand. I want
(34:17):
you to to wish in it. I want you to
take your right hand, Jay, and I want you to
shit in it, and then come back and tell me
which one got Field first. I got issues, I know,
I know, I'll do it well. Wish in one hand
and shouldn't the other, and tell me which gets Field first.
Wishing is not enough. You gotta fight for your sanity.
(34:38):
You gotta do whatever it takes to stay sane in
this crazy world. They can't have me, they can't have you. Jay.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Love that, man, I love that. If we do, we
let all the external voices shape us, and they become
the truth. When they don't have a good truth, we
can decide what that truth.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Is the voices in you, he'd be lying, You're all
fucked up. Yeah, and I am worthy. Fuck you. I'm
fucked up, but I'm good with my fucked upness. Now.
I'm worthy of being fucked up. Predictable, predictable, therefore manageable.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
So my last question, he is I asked every one
of my guests, give me your unbreakable moment for me.
Unbreakable is man a thing that was supposed to break
you but didn't, and you came to the other side
of that tunnel, and as a result of that, and
you're stronger forever.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
There are quite a few, but let me tell you
this one, this one piece. I think I was in
about twenty three years old, and I was living a
lifestyle that was definitely predictable in terms of what could happen.
You're going to be locked up, You're going to be dead,
you're going to be hospitalized somehow, some it ain't gonna
(35:54):
end right the way you going. And I looked and
I prayed, and I pondered, and I said, to God,
if I live to see twenty five, if I live
to see twenty five, there must be some purpose for
my life. Yeah. I hit twenty five, and oops, I
hadn't made a promise. And at twenty five, I said,
(36:17):
at twenty five, I've been on this I've been on
a planet for a quarter of a century. I should
at least have a clue who I am and where
I'm trying to go. And so my first purpose was
the pursuit of purpose. Man.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I love that dude. I've loved connecting with you. I've
known about you for a long time. You weren't such
a secret weapon of me I knew about you for
a long time. I'm really glad we got a chance
to connect. Young Read's book Stay Sane in an Insane World,
how to control the controllables and thrive. And I love
that too, because you're not just surviving, you're thriving there.
It is, man, I really appreciate it. Congratulate you on
(36:54):
that as well. That's huge. You know, one thing when I,
you know, wrote this book, is how many people you
end up helping and power and shaving.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
You don't know what's watching.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Somewhere else, and it's it's I just want you to
be able to love yourself up for that because you're
probably helping somebody right now that you have no idea about.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
Man, So who do you make it real clear? I
don't buy books. I'm getting ready to buy your book,
but I hope people will appreciate that her picking mine up.
But Brad, thank you. I am so humbled and pleased
to have this opportunity to chat with you and get
a clue about who you are for real, my dude,
(37:33):
I appreciate you so much. Gain Greg Harden, everybody, thank
you so much, my dude.
Fox Sports Radio News
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Jonas Knox
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
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