The Book of Joe: Onto the Divisional Round!

The Book of Joe Podcast with hosts Tom Verducci and Joe Maddon saw four sweeps in the Wild Card Series and now moves onto the Divisional Round!  Tom shares his best advice for all teams and going against it may have cost the Blue Jays their series! Joe reveals which teams he expects to advance.  Plus, we discuss how teams try to have a plan but have to be ready to adapt!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey there, welcome back.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's another episode of the Book of Joe podcast with me,
Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe. This is a
great time of year. We know it's October, It's playoff baseball.
There's nothing like it. We're coming off four sweeps in
the first round of the Wildcard Series, so we are
going to dive into our previews of the four division series.

(00:38):
But first we have to talk about the Wildcard Series
and especially the decision by John Schneider the Toronto Blue Jays. Joe,
We've talked a lot about managers running games, losing influence
to have the freedom to make calls in the course
of the game.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
My goodness. We could spend the whole podcast on that decision.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
We won't, but we will definitely dive into iteople who
didn't see it.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Where were you? By the way, the.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Blue Jays took out a dominant starting pitcher, a guy
who the manager admitted had his best stuff all year.
That was Jose Barrios, and the game immediately fell away
for the Toronto Blue Jays and they went home after
taking out their hot starting pitcher after forty seven pitches
left to mount without a run being scored, all because

(01:29):
there was a pregame script to flip the lineup over
from Minnesota. Bring in the left hander, you say, Kakuchi. Listen,
they didn't hit. I get that it wasn't the only
reason why they lost, but that was one reason why
the Toronto Blue Jays are sitting at home right now.
So that's a quick thumbnail of what happened. Joe, I
can't wait. I was thinking about you when I saw this.

(01:50):
I can't wait for your take on this.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, I'll beusly. I was watching it, or I was
actually listening to it. I was driving back from Florida.
I was in my car and I'm hearing this all
go on. And again, there's nothing to illustrate everything we've
been talking about all year, pretty much in our podcast,
more than that particular decision. It truly represents the influence

(02:14):
on the front office on the game, where the analytical
department on the game. I don't know John Schneider. I've
never met him, but I listened to him and I
think he speaks really well and I could see where
he's a great communicator at that clubhouse, and I could
also see where he really fits in well with today's
method and a front office. He speaks well, and I
like that about him a lot, But in this situation

(02:36):
like that, there's no more compelling evidence or exact evidence.
What happens prior to a game. They talked about it,
he was told about it, and if this popped up,
even if it's early, even if he's throwing the ball,
well we still need to do this. That's exactly what happened.
There was no gray area, there was probably no room
for latitude on his part, and eventually that's what you

(02:57):
see happen right there. Now, I'll put myself kind of
on the boiler plate here a little bit too. In
the World Series and twenty six, we had talked about
that the day before with Johnny Lester and Kyle Hendricks,
and a big part of that also was to get
David Ross involved as a catcher. But I was really
a big part of that discussion and I was totally

(03:18):
on board with it. The eventual decision to take Kyle
out of that game and bring Johnny in was based
on Johnny wrman up a couple times, and also one
man on if another get my man gets on, then
Kyle Hendricks would have had to face Lindor in a
real dirty situation. He did not want to put you
on in that moment. So there was a lot of
stuff going on. But I do agree with the conferences

(03:41):
or talking about it before the game, absolutely, But nobody
made me do that or asked me to do that
in that particular moment. THEO did not, Jed did not.
That was my read on the situation based on our
discussion the previous day, combined with the fact he walks
the leonof hitter cent on a pitch that was a
strike would have been a third out. Here comes a
kipnist who had been hot with Lindor on deck, and

(04:02):
that's where you have to think a little bit farther
in advance. So I'm just saying that I've been involved
in these situations and we had scripted it or talked
about it in advance, but had a tremendous amount of
latitude to make up my own mind what I wanted
to do, and I did. And regarding the Schneider situation,
I'm sure it was scripted and talked about a lot,
but I don't think there was as much latitude. There's
not as much latitude for the manager right now to

(04:24):
really be more unilateral in his decision making.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, I listen, there's a lot of things I don't
like about it.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
And I know your situation was different as well, because
you had seen Kyle Hendrick give up a couple of
hard hit balls.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
They were starting to square him up.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
In this case, there was a walk to Royce Lewis,
but that was an understandable walk because Lewis has been
the red hot hitter for the Twins.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
It was a very competitive walk.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
He just was not going to give in, nor should
he for a guy who hit two home runs in
Game one.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Stuff wise, if you want to go by metrics, you
love the metrics.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Sure, his velocity had all four of his pitches were
up from one to two and a half miles an hour.
They did not hit a ball ninety five miles an
hour or harder. They just did not square him up.
And the manager admitted it was probably his best stuff
all year. But you have to go back even to
the first inning after this thought was planted in his head,

(05:17):
whether from him or somebody in the front office, or
most likely a combination of both, that Kokuchi was going
to come into this game to turn around the lineup
because Minnesota does have a lot of left handed hitters,
their right handed platoon guys probably are a bit weaker
than their lefties. I get that. They so they had
that in mind. But what they did was they didn't
watch the game.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
They didn't pay.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Attention to what the game was telling them to do,
so they wound up bringing in Kokuchi, who is not
pitched out of the bullpen the entire year, and brought him.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Into a dirty situation.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
There's just so many things wrong with this, Joe that
it's I didn't like the fact that Snyder and I
agree with you.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
I like John Schnider, great guy.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
I think he's going to be a good manager, but
he doesn't have enough of pedigree at this point in
his career to stand up to his front office and say,
this is how I'm running the game.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
I'm going to react to what I'm watching. What I'm
watching is Jose Breas is dominating.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Why would I ever do something to take out a
guy who's dominating for.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Me, Joe.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Rule Number one for a manager is never make a
decision that makes the other team happy. John Schneider made
the Minnesota Twins happy. Throw the script out. Don't make
the other team happy. It's that simple.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
You're right. All that stuff is right on the money.
The stuff that is planted in your head before the game. Wow,
if I told my players that many things to consider
before the game, or created any sense of doubt in
my player's minds before the game, that'd be the worst
possible thing I can do with They don't realize. They
being front office people and analytica guys, when you do
things like this, when you constantly feel your manager's heads

(06:48):
head up or heads up with thoughts and ideas and
mandates and all this stuff, this creates so much doubt
in your mind that you get away from you. You
cannot have your own process of thinking things through it.
Like you're saying, watch the game, pay attention to the game.
What am I seeing right now? What do I need
to do? What do I need not to do? With
the decision to make us do nothing, that's a decision.

(07:10):
But it's true, man, so many things are floating in
your head. I'm certain Kevin cashed a great job with
the Rays, but I know when he took Snell out,
all the voices are in the back of your head
in that moment. It's just true. I've been through it.
I've been through it more recently the latter part of
my managing with the Cubs and then with the Angels.
There's so many things floating up there based on stuff

(07:32):
that you'd been told before the game, and it's independent
of your own baseball common sense, your own baseball sensibilities
that you've been raised with. Whenever you with an athlete
or a manager or whomever, any we're talking in about
athletic situation, the last thing you want to do, the
very last thing you want to do, is present doubt.
You have to present it in a way that you

(07:53):
might give options or things they consider, but don't say
it in a way that this person, the person making
the decisions and the hot moment, doubts his decision making
based on the fact that you may actually it may
actually cause you. It does make you go against maybe
what you truly believe needs to be done right here,
and that's wrong, and that to me, is absolutely wrong.

(08:14):
So I'm just trying to give you the overarching, overall
scope or look at this thing. But that phrase is true, Tommy,
really true. They planned so many things in your head
that you doubt yourself and you cannot make that baseball
decision that you've been trained to do. Well.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Listen, he had Kokuchi throwing as early as the first inning.
He had Hennes's Cabrera up in the third inning, with
Barrios dominating with just thirty pitches into a game. So
he managed the game with his hand on a fire alarm.
He couldn't wait to go to the script.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
I get that script, but keep that in your back pocket.
You don't watch the game. And I didn't like the
fact that after the game John Schneider did not use
the pronoun.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
I own it. Yeah, well, tell me what.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
You saw that made you make that decision. Don't say
you can second guess me, second guess the organization. It's
not about the organization. You are a leader, you are
a decision maker. And again, the script is wonderful to
go into a game with, but you at some point
have to say I made this decision because and finished

(09:20):
that sentence with conviction.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
I didn't see conviction. I saw a guy that was just.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
I don't know why, he just, as you said, his
head was filled with a preordained idea and he couldn't
wait to go to it.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
And by the way, players know this.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
I don't know if you saw the quotes from Wit
Maryfield after the game, he flat out said, I hated it.
He said, this is what's going on in baseball. They're
taking away from managers what they're doing here. I hated it.
That's one of your own players. Forget about making the
other team happy, you're making your own players unhappy.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah, listen, what's out standing. And again it just proves
the point or personifies the point that they are middle
managers producing middle managers and not managers anymore. And I've
talked about this, and I'm telling you, man, if it
continues along this path, you're gonna have a head coach
and no longer a manager. You're going to be somehow
wired up to the press box or somebody upstairs in
game to have decisions being sent down to you. It's

(10:14):
basically at almost at that point already. It is. It's
it's very distracting. It's it really takes a lot of
joy out of it, not only for the manager of
course and the coaching staff, but also players just like
like with exemplified there with what he said, and I
really I credit him for speaking up like he did,
and it wasn't trying to hammer his manager. He was

(10:35):
talking to an over overarching point regarding what's going on
in the game in general. And it's true. It's it's
there's no there's no equivocating here. It's absolutely true. That's
what's going on. It's happened in other cities. I know
even Buck felt that this year, and Buck, of all
people in New York felt that. I don't even know
to what extent gab, but Gabe is definitely on board
with that. And then with Nev, I know what happened

(10:56):
with Nev in Anaheim. I just know that's just what's
going on. So when you get let Go or fire
or whatever, you're trying to help this group incorporate their
philosophy into the game, and then you pay the price
for it. It's very difficult to not difficult to understand,
but very difficult to take.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, listen, if you haven't read our book, The Book
of Joe, you got to read it because it's chapter
and verse of how we got here, and it's only
become the influence of how games are run even more
heavy since the book came out last year, and it
goes back and Sandy Alderson admitted this when he was
running the Oakland A's and he hired Art Howe.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
He told him, I'm not hiring.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
You because of your baseball acumen and your ideas or
your philosophy. I'm hiring you to implement ours in the
front office. And that's when the game turned. And Joe,
I know you went through this with the Angels, but
there was a really good story. You mentioned some of
the other ball clubs story in The Athletic by Andrew
Baggerley about the Giants. You know, Mike Murphy was a
long time, longtime clubhouse attendant manager with the Giants, and

(12:03):
the home club house players would hang out there. It
was kind of like where they had their little Algonquin roundtable, right,
just go in there and have a drink and talk baseball.
Willie Mays would sit in there and would talk baseball
with whoever walked in there.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
It was just an awesome place.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Well that's gone now because the front office analytics group
has taken over that office, so they had to move
the clubhouse attendance into the interview room.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
So there's literally no interview room at the Giants ballpark.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Now, and we're talking about in terms of the analytics group,
at least a senior data scientist, two senior analyst for
associate analysts, another associated analyst, eight sophtomare engineers. And that's
not including the performance science team, which has a biomechanist,
all kinds of different coaches that are called analysts. They
have the run of the clubhouse. They help run the

(12:57):
hitting and pitching meetings. They are embedded not just in
terms of the philosophy of the team, but physical in
the space of the players who actually play the game
of baseball. They'll forget about a firewall. There is no wall.
It is seamless. Now when you think about the people
who are running the teams, and I'm talking about not

(13:21):
just information but the strategy of a team, they are
physically embedded in the teams now. So you talk about influence.
If you're a manager these days and a team like that,
how could you not have those thoughts.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
In your head?

Speaker 3 (13:35):
You do? And the same thing was with the Angels.
There was a room meeting room right next to the
adjacent with the coaches room. And I know for a
fact that coaches are very uncomfortable just to have open
conversations among themselves because they were concerned about their voices
carrying too far and people hearing what they had to
say and would not like it. You can't have that.

(13:57):
You cannot have that. Coaches, real major league coaches, real
baseball coaches, have to be able to vent. They have
to be able to say what they say. They have
to be able to be angry among each other and
get things off their chest, and they have to be
able to discuss this without holding back. That's part of
what happens when you get in an environment like this.
People don't necessarily or they don't say what they mean.
They're always being guarded. They just withholding kind of a situation.

(14:22):
And I know, I mean even I'll say his name,
Brian Butterfield, one of the best coaches I've ever been around.
Butter was really upset about the process there and it
bothered him a lot, and he would come to me
and we would talk about it, and I understood it
completely because I know I would not want to be
in that coach's room. I had my own separate manager's office,
which then permits you to some kind of a freedom
in regarding to just to the day itself. But this again.

(14:46):
It's happening. It's happened there, it's happening everywhere. And it's
true the fact that presenters are really becoming more involved
in a daily routine of the game, in the accumulation
of the information, which I'll say this, I want them
to do that. Yes, I need that help. I need
that kind of help. I need somebody to bring all
of this stuff together because quite frankly, you don't have

(15:06):
the time to sit and do this. When I first
started with the Rays, I had my own process and
I did accumulate my own information. And Andrews saw that
and he says, man, you don't have to do that.
Let me, We'll get somebody to do that for you.
And eventually that little sheet in my back pocket that
the matrix and everything else and all these numbers, was
Andrew noticing what I needed and then having somebody else

(15:28):
do it. And I'm just, quite frankly, it might have
grown out of that one moment in that office that day.
So you need that because you don't really have the
time to accumulate all of that. I want those guys
on board. But then once they've given me what they have,
let me then present it to my coaching staff and
my players. The fact that you have presenters in the
clubhouse confusing all of this stuff, and actually, quite frankly,

(15:53):
there's way too much stuff. There's way too much information.
You don't need that before a game. We've talked about
this before and I'll just jump on it here. It's
more of an off season kind of a gig. Analytically speaking,
you're going to acquire large globs of information in order
to make the right decisions. Who do I bring into
the organization or not before the game. I need to
know where my defense sets up. Absolutely, from the pitching perspective,

(16:15):
I do need to know where to go when I
need it out against this particular hitter. And absolutely where
do I not want to go? Where's this sky hot
at things like that. But that doesn't require all these dissertations.
If you're an analyst, Tom, and if you have your
job is to analyze and acquire information, you're going to
sit there all day and bring up a whole bunch
of stuff, and then you're going to think it's pertinent
to present it to the group. I'm here to tell you, man,

(16:37):
it just serves to confuse I know, show hate doesn't
need a whole bunch of nuggets. I know Shurezer doesn't
need a whole bunch of stuff, and neither does the rookie.
But they're the guys that you could really infiltrate with
this stuff. They're so used to looking at their phones
and their devices and they think all this information is
going to make them better. It's the moment. It's being
able to think in the moment clearly and rely on

(16:59):
your athletic ability that sets teams apart.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
You know, how about if we add some more people
who actually played the game of baseball and have coaching experience.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
How about that idea.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Sure there's one team where a veteran nudge the guy
next to him during the national anthem. He said, look
at the top step where the coaches were. He said,
not a day in the big leagues right there.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Players. Notice, I do think it's starting to turn back
a little bit. Joe.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
You know, comments like the one Meryfield made is dead
on and listen, he went home having to watch that
at the end of their season.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
So I don't blame him for speaking up.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
You had Aaron Judge with the Yankee saying, you know,
we really have to look at this analytics department, and
I think we're getting the wrong numbers from these people.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
And even Farheard admitted.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Far On Zaidi with the Giants admitted he needs to
be more flexible, and they're looking for a manager who
maybe does have some different ideas and more importantly, he
is looking for a leader, someone with charisma. That's especially
important if you're the team like the Giants and you're
looking to sign free agents, that's your one of your
biggest recruiting tools is the face of your French As

(18:04):
the manager, he does represent your franchise on a daily
basis in front of the media, in front of the players.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
It's important.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
So I think let the leaders lead put an emphasis
on leadership, and I know in Boston they're doing that
in their search for a president of Baseball Operations. They're
putting an emphasis on leadership. I think we've lost that
around the game. And there's nothing wrong with it. There's
nothing wrong with the manager like Bruce Bouchier and Dusty
Baker saying I made this move and here's why I

(18:33):
made it.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah. And just to further that a little bit, when
you're talking about the major league coaches being more former
major League players or guys that have at least put
some time into minor leagues. Who is going to coach
the coaches in the minor leagues to pass this game along.
This is a conversation I've had with you. Also, if
we're going to rely just purely on the analytical world
to frame the game of baseball and moving forward, then

(18:56):
the game as we have known it is really going
to die slow death actually, in order to have all
the things you just mentioned right there to get the game,
whether it's cut off in relays, whether it's the bunt
buns and bunch defenses, stealing bases, how to advance on
a ball in the dirt first, whatever, the game itself
not just launch angles and spin rates. Who are coaching

(19:17):
the coaches that are passing the game along to the players? Now,
I mean, I, like I've talked about, I've had I
had wonderful mentors coming up to the Angel organization, tremendous
among the best. And these are the guys that taught me.
And from that, you take that and you apply all
that information, all that knowledge, and then you develop your
own method, your own system of teaching the game of baseball,

(19:38):
and then you get to the point of leadership and
where leadership is empowerment and it's not control. And that's
that's again it baffles me in it it bothers me. Yes,
if you want leadership, you empower the person to be
able to lead. He doesn't have to ask you in
advance of wanting to say something to an entire group

(20:00):
or something that he may want to unilaterally employ. It's
got there's an empowerment component to this.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
And if you you as the owner or the GM
or the president of ops, whatever, if you're unwilling to
do that, you're not going to get the leadership you're
looking for because you're quite frankly, causing this person to
constantly look over his shoulder for acquiescence.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
And if he doesn't get it, he's not going to lead.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Well, listen, we could do a whole podcast just on
that move. It's the worst move I've seen by a
manager since you mentioned it, Kevin Cash in the twenty
twenty World Series taking out a dominant Lake Snell. But
we do need to move on to the next round.
Division Series Baseball coming up, folks. For series, we will
dive into a preview right after this. Hey, Joe, by

(20:54):
the way, before we get to our preview. Did you
see the bunt attempt by Jose Siri. It was the
Don Zimmer Special for the Tampa Bay Rays first than third,
and it was set up perfectly against the Texas Rangers
because you watched the first baseman, Nathaniel Lowe start to
charge Marcus Simeon went to go cover second base. If

(21:15):
he gets that bunt down, it's a base hit and
the Rays get a run, and maybe that series is different. Instead,
Siri just did a very poor job fundamentally, didn't get
the bat out in front of him, popped it up.
Montgomery made a great play, and listen, maybe the Rangers
win that series anyway, because the Rays were so bad,
but that was the one best chance for Tampa to

(21:37):
get back in the series, the Zim Special, and they
blew it at home.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
Well, I actually understood. I didn't see that. Again, I
was driving, so I missed that. But you're describing it
really well. The one thing about that play, and you
may have noticed it or not, did the runner at
first base do like a false break like he was
going to steal, Because that was the one thing we
added to that play, and when we added that to
the play, exactly what you said. The second basement cover
second base, his responsibilities to go there if the run

(22:04):
is stealing or if it's a hit and run. So
it clears it up. You put the bunt down like
you just suggest that nobody's covering first base. And part
of that play like Zim described, is with runners on
first and third like that. Normally the first move by
the first baseman is going to be to cover the
hole and not charge straight in. But that's been a
part of the evolution of that playoff pensively, defensively. Now

(22:25):
first baseman just charged straight in. I'm telling you, man,
when that thing works, and I've had it work often.
And then the playoffs doubled up against Jimi Garcia and
Saint Louis doubled up back to back, kind of like
blew up that whole series in our favor. It's the
kind of thing that really, it really bothers you on
the other team. That bothers you, It bothers you in
the digout. Why didn't I see that? You feel inept?

(22:47):
I should have been more prepared for that. Why didn't
remind anybody? Why do we work on this some more?
I mean, you hear you think all these crazy things
in that one particular moment. So just a simple bunt,
a simple fifteen to twenty foot ball in play, you know,
placed in the proper place, which should be down the
first base side, because that really sets it up. All
of a sudden, the other team does it does kind

(23:08):
of get It causes smoke to come out of their ears,
and you know you're in a pretty good shape.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah, listen to the Rays.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
I mean that they just laid an egg in that series,
played poorly, didn't hit.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
But I give the Texas Rangers a ton of credit.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
I was a little worried about them because they did
lose the chance to win the division and have a
bye by losing that last day, got shut out in Seattle,
get on a plane, fly all the way across the
country to Tampa Bay. And you know what, they played
really well, Joe. It's another surprise. Bruce Bochi had his
team ready in that situation. And now maybe they're better
off by having played those couple of games, because they

(23:41):
look like a team that's rolling right now. This kid,
Evan Carter, at the bottom of their lineup is just spectacular.
Twenty one year old kid, the youngest ever to make
his postseason debut and get on base four times.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Next day he hits a home run, just lengthens that
lineup that's already so deep.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
So give me your take now, because Texas now is
going to go into Baltimore be a hostile environment that
plays will be rocking Camden Yards, and Texas is going
in after having already used the two best pictures to
start the series.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
We'll have to wait to use them getting into Camden Yards.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
But give me your take on this setup now with
Texas coming in with a little bit of momentum against Baltimore.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Yeah, but again it's always about the starting picture. He
creates the momentum having had to use their two best
pictures to get there. That's the benefit of winning the division.
That's the negative about not winning the division ending up
in a possible best two out of three wild card situation,
as it should be. I mean, there's got to be
some reward for winning your division, and I like the

(24:42):
fact that the reward is pretty significant right now. Although
when it comes down the seating, we could talk about
that later. But I think still Baltimore as the Edgless
I could just describe they arrested, I know, it's like
you're saying, sometimes you want to keep playing. You think
that may build a momentum necessary, But then again, fatigue
can't sit in. It's tough. It's tough to do what
they did flying from Seattle in having to get into

(25:05):
this thing two out of three. They went two in
a row in Tampa Bay. But still there's a lot
of stuff going on there physically and mentally, and now
they got to fly again to Baltimore, so there's there's
a lot of movement there and time zones to interact with.
So I still think, I believe strongly that this this
definitely sets well for Baltimore right now, and the fact

(25:26):
that they have to wait to get back to I
listened Jordan Montgomery. That was I thought that was one
of the best moves when it got to the trade
deadline situation. He was fantastic. The other day I was
watching that, I did was able to see that and
how he carved them up really well. And then the
next day of all the doing kind of the same thing.
But they gotta wait. You gotta wait on those two guys.

(25:47):
So Baltimore is hungry man. Baltimore is going to play
just like they did in the In the regular season,
Texas a little bit up and down kind of. I
know they were kind of hot right now, but Baltimore
one hundred games for reasons, so I think the rest
is actually going to help them, and having had to
play the wildcare is gonna hurt Texas.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
I kind of like the fact that Texas now is
on something of a mission. I do agree make a
good point that maybe it catches up to them at
some point, but I just like the look about them
right now. You know, I think they got their backup
here if they're having to play this, and it reminds
me a little bit of Philly last year. Gained some
momentum by taking out Saint Louis in the wild card

(26:27):
and then went in and took out Atlanta and just
kept that ball rolling. So fascinating series. We'll see about that.
By the way, Montgomery was a perfect matchup against the Rays.
I'm with you, that was a great pickup winds up
being their Game one starter with all the injuries to
de Gram and Scherzer and you name it. But the
Rays are a team, let's face it, the fourth highest
chase rate in the major leagues, the most of any

(26:48):
playoff team.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Montgomery was a terrible matchup for them.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
He prays upon guys chasing his soft stuff out of
his own so I think Baltimore will give him a
tougher time. I just like the way Baltimore plays offensive baseball.
They remind me of Arizona as well. They just don't chase.
They put the ball in play, they run the bases.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
One more thing, the umpire was a little bit generous
for Montgomery two. I thought, yes, he was, you know,
and that you can't underestimate that with the style of
pitcher that Montgomery is, that's that's a bit that's a
more physical version of Tommy John and jeff'son out. There
was the ability to pitch right off the edges. He's
he's that good. He's that good, and if he gets
a benevolent umpire, he's going to really kick. But the
whole time to the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, the American League Division Series has Minnesota starting off
in Houston against the Astros.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
It's the Carlos Correa Series.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Carlos has a way of kind of being in the
picture in the postseason. I mean, this dude is one
of the best clutch hitters, at least in this generation.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Just look at his track record, folks.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
You know, he's got sixty one RBIs in about eighty
games in the postseason and just has a way of
coming up big. He did that with the big Bass
hit to get them into this second round here. Minnesota
is an interesting team, Joe. I mean, they've totally changed
my opinion about them. They've played so well in the
second half of the season. Have more swing and miss

(28:05):
than any team in the major leagues. I'm talking about
from the front of the rotation to the back of
the rotation. He might not know all the names, but
my goodness, stuff wise, it's off the charts now. Houston
again is a team we all know that they're great
postseason team because they do put the ball in play.
They're a great situational hitting team. This looks to me, Joe,
like a five game series.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Very well could be. I'm still curious. I know we
talked about it the other day and there's no real
quantifiable information, but why has Houston been so bad at home?
I'm really eager to watch this just to see, you know,
the Twins coming in. They had a nice series, and
of course they they're pitching dominated and the pitchers that
they threw were really very good. That's both starters that

(28:47):
they had thrown in that series, so and their closer.
God dang, that's some dynamic stuff. Wow, but that's dynamic.
But yeah, I want to see that. I want to
see if Houston beat them at home. That's what I
think they're going to have to do to really make
this whole thing work. Houston pedigree, there's something to be
said for that. They've done it for several years now

(29:09):
in a row, and they do believe. And they're definitely
not going to be a wide eyed for at any
moment during the course of this series, and definitely not
on the first game. I think the first game is
really important, like it always is, but in this one,
if you just think to get on top of them
and win that game at home and whatever that is,
like they got internally about not having a good record

(29:30):
at only just get over it, then it can be
very quick. But I do like the Twins attitude. I
do like the way they play. I think Rocco and
this group has done a really nice job up job
up there. Like you said, Korea, Man, I you know
there's times he could these two different guys. He could
be a chameleon, especially offensively, and then all of a sudden,
the guy can turn it on and he's got that thing.

(29:52):
He's got that switch, he's got that dimmer switch that
he turns up. So he could be if he comes
out hot and he does something big early, he can
mean all the difference. In a will from Minnesota.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
That reminds me of mentioned the Astros home record. Here's
a question for you as a manager home road records.
How much attention, how much validity do you put in
something like that. I remember one year where lou Panella started.
I think it was Ryan Dempster in the first game
of a playoff series rather than Carlos Sombrono is better pitcher,
and he did it based on home road splits.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
I think that's a junk stat, Joe, I really do.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
I look at the Houston Astros and Okay, they're under
five hundred for the season at home. They are only
the second team in a full season to make the
win a division with a losing record at home. The
Old One Braves were the other team. I think just
just an anomaly. It's just the way it worked out.
Maybe you weren't playing that time and playing well at
the time. You were a home during a homestand this

(30:46):
is what.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Matters to me.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
The Houston Astros at min It Made Park have the
fourth highest postseason winning percentage of any team. Philadelphia, by
the way, is number one at the Bank. So in
the postseason, do I want to play the Astros at
Minute Made Park because they have a losing record in
the regular season this year?

Speaker 3 (31:06):
No.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
I've seen it too many times. That is a home
field advantage, So no, I think it's a junk stat.
I don't put any faith in a number like that.
If you can give me a reason why the Astros
stink at home in the regular season this year, I
might buy it.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
But there's not a reason to explain something like that.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
I agree with that. I with the Cubs, we were
down three games to two. We went to Cleveland and
we went two games, and the next thing, Bob's runkle,
we win the World Series. I never felt in baseball,
you know, a large crowd, like with the Rays in
two thousand and eight, we go into Chicago in the
alds and beat the White Sox during these blackouts. We

(31:44):
beat them before the first game is a blackout. You
stand on the line and everybody there has got black
and there's actually lint coming off the towels floating all
over the ballpark. Because it was incredibly you could be
intimidated by this, but we were not. We were not
a baseball somehow. I don't even know. I think part
of it was I'm just jumping a little bit. The

(32:05):
fact that the Rays we had to beat New York,
and New York we had to beat Boston and Boston.
It kind of prepares you for moments like that, so
I've always put that behind me. I could not agree
with you more. The only thing I'm saying right now
is I'm curious, because again, what is the reason? And
maybe it is serendipitous, like you're saying, I don't know,

(32:25):
but I want to I want to see this, I
want to see what's going on. I want to watch
these games more closely. Haven't watched a whole lot of
Houston and Houston this year, but it's it's kind of
it's kind of curious to me. It'd be the Tanemount
to the race, having a losing record at the Trump
and then this tremendous record of the road. Are they
talking about it is something that's bothering who knows. So anyway,

(32:47):
I'm curious. I'm curious to see this. You're probably right,
I don't have I've never held any grudge of going
on the road during the playoffs at all. And actually
I kind of liked it. We did well. The teams
that I've had have done well with that. But the
Houston Astros to have a losing record at home, I'm
kind of curious.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, I just the pedigree of this team. I've just
seen them step up time after time after time. By
the way, I can't get this image out of my
head of what you brought up of the lint coming
off the towels, lint on the I mean, I guess
what you're saying is they got these rally towels very cheaply.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Yeah. Correct, of course, of course they were. They were
definitely definitely imported. They weren't made in the USA.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Hey, one matchup to keep your eye on in that series,
Royce Lewis, He's now is a guy you have to
account for when the game starts. When you know you
know this, Joe, you go into a series and you say,
we can't let this guy beat us. I know Correa's pedigree,
it gets your attention. But right now, the way he's
swinging the bat, ryce Lewis is the man. I mean,
He's going to influence some decisions. I'm sure Dusty Baker

(33:52):
already is thinking, Okay, here's my best matchup on'm Ryce
Lewis in the seventh inning with a runner on base
and one run game So, and Dusty's got plenty of
good options there with his his right handed power bullpen.
Think about this Statu Joe on fastballs in the zone.
There's only two hitters who slugged higher than Royce Lewis

(34:13):
this year, and those two are Aaron Judge and Shohei Otani.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
So the book is pretty simple on Royce Lewis.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
If you throw him a fastball in the zone, you
do so at your own peril. You can get him
out with breaking stuff, but you cannot challenge him. I
don't care if it's he usually takes three to zero,
but there's no point in the game unless the base
is loaded, obviously where you should be challenging him with
a fastball in the zone.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
So keep your eye on net.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Well, especially in today's game. If you get at a
fastball with the way velocity is that definitely works your advantage,
especially when he gets the latter part of the game
with bullpen guys that maybe are more suited for fastball
over breaking ball. But the thing about him that I like,
only again limited at bats, but I saw him pop
win the right center in Minnesota, and that ballpark in
Houston is really susceptible to that side of the field,

(35:00):
right in that slot. Yes, I've seen Bregman do really
nice job there in the past against the Cubs. So
that's that's curious to me. And apparently again from just
watching the games we're listening a little bit, sounds like
he likes the ball middle in a little bit, but
he stays inside the ball and drives it the other way,
which is that's that's where he's catching up to these fastballs.
I mean a lot of times, and again I don't

(35:22):
know heat chart whatever, but to go elevate it in
with the fastballs normally a safe spot, especially against the righty.
But if he's getting to that pitch and he's driving
it the other way, that's that's kind of interesting to see.
So I watch this very closely. I'm going to watch
him very close. Him eager to see this, and yeah,
when a guy, when a young hitter, it's the opposite

(35:44):
field gap. Well and for power. He always intrigues me.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
All good stuff.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Hey, let's talk about when we get back the National
League Division Series, two great series in that league as well.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Right after this, Joe, let's start with the Atlanta Braves.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
They are the team to beat. You know, I don't
know if you ever were in this situation. You go in,
I guess in sixteen you were. You go in as
the team to beat across the Major League Baseball landscape.
They're the best team in baseball all year, very consistent,
the best slugging team of all time. That's not a hyperbole.
They slugged over five hundred. They change a game with

(36:30):
one swing more than any other team, and that's what
you do in the postseason to win some games. But
I just get this sense, Joe, that the Philadelphia Phillies
can take them out. And I thought going into this
postseason I had the Phillies winning at all, especially if
Aaron Nola got back on track. Well, guess what, he
threw the ball great against Miami. And I know that

(36:51):
Caleb Cotham, the pitching coach, made an adjustment with him
in his last two starts of the regular season. They
have him over the rubber a little bit more, and
my goodness, he's been lights out in the three starts
since they've made that. So if you've got Wheeler and Nola,
and I know they can't pitch games one and two
to start out, but in a five game series, given
the ball to those two against the Braves with some

(37:12):
questions with their pitching in September, I like the Phillies.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Who you got?

Speaker 3 (37:16):
Yeah, yes, because I have the Phillies going to the
World Series with the Orioles. The thing about Philadelphia and
I think we could all agree on this, They're not
going to be intimidated. I think they're gonna I know
Schwarves really well. I've got to know Harp a little bit.
Also a young Brandon marsha I know what he's all about.
I love Stott. There's a lot to like within that

(37:37):
group in a real mudo. I mean when he when
he popped that ball against robertson the other day, that
I really that's just that one at bat that could
really get this guy flowing a little bit, so up
and down lineup, I like I do like the Phlays
and I of course you like the bras everybody likes
the Braves, of course they do. But Philly I think
is really hungry. I think they're so inspired. I mean,

(38:02):
what's going on down there, fan base, the city itself,
and again there's this accumulation of players that really feed
off that kind of energy, and they're not going to
be intimidated. Actually, like relish the opportunity to prove people wrong.
I think you're going to see the best version of
the Phillies in the series. I do believe they're gonna win. Yes,
the Braves are really good. They do rely a lot

(38:22):
on the home run. The part of the Phillies pitching
order that they may be facing may help or contribute
to that. Also, it's gonna you know, it really comes
down to again, I have not had the game plan
for Atlanta in a while, but looking at their lineup
and how it sets up, they're gonna have to pick
their poison right there, and of course a Kuna Olsen whatever,

(38:43):
But you have to pick your poison and you've got
to really try to filter your way through. Remember with
Olsen too, man guy hits lefties. I don't care what
lefty is the guy can hit a lefty. There's no
advantage there. It's like Tucker with the Astros. There is
no advantage there by bringing lefty or Alvarez. There's no
advantage by bringing in a lefty. And especially in today's game.
I was thinking about this too. There may have been

(39:05):
that this is really where with the three batter minimum
hurts from the perspective of bringing matching up. You might
have just been able to hire a real good lefty
that just kills lefties, that just annihilates left handed hitters.
But now you've got guys that have to be cognizant
of getting both rightis and lefties on. They may have
lost a little bit of an edge left on left,
but there's these there's some guys in this playoff situation,

(39:28):
left handed hitters that you just can't think it's a
safety net to put a left hander on them. So,
having said all that, I just like the Phillies where
they're at right now. I know some of the guys,
they're not going to be intimidated. I think they got
it going on and we eventually get to the World
Series and lose to Baltimore.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, everything you said about the Phillies, I'd agree with,
and it starts with Bryce Harper. And to me, maybe
you want one example, it's him running through the stop
sign of Dusty Wattham, scoring from first base. If you
break down that play, it's everything about who Harper and
the Phillies are. First of all, he had a great
secondary leadoff space plays in front of him. He knows
that John Birdie, who's basically an infielder is playing left field,

(40:09):
doesn't have a great arm.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
He made a decision between second and third.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
He was scoring and he wasn't going to be stopped,
and that's a baseball decision. That's not a reckless decision.
And again I'll go back to his secondary lead this game.
This guy plays the game at a high level, smartly,
and that describes how the Philadelphia Phillies played. Now, I
still think the Braves could hit enough home runs that
all of that doesn't matter. You know, the advantage at

(40:34):
home for Philadelphia, how tough they are. I do think
that their lineup is that dangerous. I think they hit velocity. Well,
he hit everything as well as anybody in baseball, but
they kill velocity except balls above their hands. I think
that's a one place Philadelphie's going to have to go
Riley Olsen. Ozuna not great on fastballs up and there's

(40:54):
very few places you can go against this Atlanta team.
So one place you can have some success, you just
better not miss.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Yeah. When you say good secondary leader, I've always a
nice to teach Spase running with the Angels in the eighties.
A good secondary equals a good teammate. Period. If you
take good secondary leads, that means you're a good teammate.
You're there to score runs, You're there to get an
RBI for your buddy. It just speaks to your concentration,
your focus on the field during the course of the game.

(41:22):
To me, that's where players really revealed themselves regarding their
baseball acumen as a lot of it's just on the
basis the other day, Guerrero gets picked off in a
huge situation right there. He needs to be taking a
safe max. In other words, you just you don't get
way off. You relign your secondary lead to get way
off right there, because he's not of that quickness to

(41:43):
get off far. And if I know he wants to score,
I know all this, I get it. But that's where
a good strong secondary lead needs to be incorporated with
a more of a safe maximum lead, so that absolutely
good secondary equals a good teammate. Last point, I think
that part of Harper having that mindset was where Dusty
had held up earlier in a game on that pop

(42:05):
up the right field right, So I think there was
like all kinds of things in play right there. And
that's how you work, man, That's how players work, especially
guys like a Harper, a lot of cachet, big time player.
He's gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna take that moment to
really set a tone for the rest of the group,
and that's what I saw. So I think there was
a lot of factors involved in that good secondary, though,

(42:26):
equals good teammate.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
By the way that Guerrero pickoff and obviously it can't
happen you're the trail runner, not even the lead runner.
You shouldn't it shouldn't have a non lead runner. But ye,
people should understand though that's only possible or made more
possible by the fact that they have the PitchCom device.
You can call a timing play at second base with
the PitchCom device, and we've seen more of those than

(42:49):
ever before because you don't have to go by counting
in your head or signaling to the infielder. The catcher,
the middle infielder, the pitcher are all in on it electronically.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
It's fascinating.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Well, then you should be able to give signs to
the hitter from the dugout. You should be able to
go a sign from the third base coach to the runner.
I mean, I I don't know if I like that
as much. The fact that you could relay signs through
other than just fastball curve or whatever. I get it.
I get it, but that that really comes down to
paying attention, you know, the kesher and the middlelandfielders having

(43:21):
to be on the same page. It has nothing to
do with time, nothing to do with the pace of
the game. I don't know, I have to consider I
didn't even realize that i'd have to consider all that,
because that was a big thing. When you had a
situation that you thought might be ripe, you would talk
about it before the game. Listen, when so and so
gets on second base, heads up, he falls asleep out there.

(43:42):
We're going to try to take advantage of this. And then,
like you said, this is going to require some kind
of a sign from the shortstop to the picture. Normally,
the shortstop is going to put it on before the
picture puts it on normally, and then and then the answer.
So that's again I don't know. I hope I'm not
revealing just the fact that I've been doing this for
a long time, but part of it, part of that

(44:02):
to me, that's where should still remain signs, And I
don't know that that technology should technology should take that
over or like I said, eventually all signs should be
eliminated for the with technology ruling the roost.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
It's a good question.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
I'm not sure what the answer is myself, but why
PitchCom has a button for a timing pickoff play, Yeah,
is a question that I think the committee should take
a look at. And by the way, again, give Carlos
Kore a credit. I mean, yeah, it's a baseball IQ.
He had told Sonny Gray as early as the first
inning that that ballpark was so loud that a runner

(44:39):
on second base would not be able to hear the
third base coach tell him to get back or to
shorten his lead. I mean, think about that awareness, that
court awareness, if you will, and you wonder why this
guy's a really good big game player.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
I just love that story.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
I do love that, and that would be enough to
just say, listen, give me a look, give me a look.
These guys are allowed out here. The place is loud,
and then I'm I have certain that they spoke about
certain hit runners. Did they get in that second situation
at second base? That'd be more ripe, like I said,
to be able to pick. I would bet that Flattie
might have been one of those guys. I'd have to

(45:15):
believe that, and then here it came. So anyway, I'd
want to blavor this point. But I just think that
that's something that may require old school technologies of post
of buttons.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
One more series to get to Joe.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
It's the Dodgers and the Arizona Diamondbacks. Now this is
a good example for me, Joe, of I want to
know what's going on right now with a team. We
can dive into regular season stats all that we want
right and if you look at this series, you would say, well,
the Dodgers are going to dominate. They want eight and
five against Arizona. They outscored Arizona in the head to

(45:48):
head matchups this year seventy two to forty seven really
not that competitive. That the best home field record in
the National League fifty three to twenty eight. Arizona had
to use Zach Gallon just to get through Milwaukee, so
he won't be available in the first couple of games.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
He's their best pitcher.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
So regular season numbers, the way we're set up here
looks like Dodgers. But if you watched Arizona play against Milwaukee,
you saw a team that went down on the road
in both games by multiple runs, came back with a
young team pretty much and won that series and won
it pretty easily.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
I was really impressed by it.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
If you looked at Arizona's chase rate in those two
games against Milwaukee, you would think you were looking at
a battle tested veteran team.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
In the postseason, they just don't chase Corbyn Carroll.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
I don't know what he's got in his veins, but
he looks like he's been playing baseball for ten years.
I think this is going to be a more competitive
series than what the regular season series lead you to believe.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
Everything you just talked about there, yeh, it all makes sense.
But the thing that's most impressive to me is that
they were down twice and came back and won. That
really screams at me.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
On the road in a hostile environment.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Absolutely on the thing that I really tried to impressive
on my teams before playoffs I have. That's one of
the few meetings I have all year, and in that
one of the one of the main topics I bring
up is that listen, at some point, things are going
to go badly. It's going to go wrong, but we
cannot permit that to overcome us. We have to fight
back from those from those moments. So just be aware

(47:22):
of that because too many times I've seen and even
watching the rays yesterday, my goodness, I saw some I
was watching a replay actually last night. You can see
their faces. You can see in their faces they were resigned.
Even early in that game. It was not a good look.
It was not there was no believability. That also speaks to, like,
in a short series like that, why it's so important
to get on top winning that first game, but to

(47:43):
be able to come back and win games, like you said,
on the road and in the playoffs. It's one thing
to do it during the regular season, because when teams
get up in the playoffs, man, there's a thing that happens,
and all of a sudden, you start getting into that
vibe and you're feeling even a little bit stronger and
better or sexier than the other team, and the other
team is feeling the exact opposite. So that to me
is screaming at me right there. And that's why I

(48:05):
really want to pay attention and watch more of this.
I really haven't seen the Diamondbacks a whole lot this year,
but that one point, in and of itself, that is
the mark of a really good team, a good playoff team,
And it also speaks to whoever the leaders are in
that clubhouse, the group in itself, that they don't quit. Man,
they don't quit, and they probably like one another, and

(48:26):
they play well and they have this strong belief system.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
And mark this down for better or for worse. Dave
Roberts is going to be a story in that series.
He has to be because he doesn't have length from
his starting pitchers. I mean, normally the Dodgers in the postseason,
that's kind of the mo anyway, right, they played twelve
straight postseason games without their starter going past the fifth inning.

(48:50):
But he has to do it by necessity now because
he's got Clayton Kershaw is basically a seventy pitch guy
right now. He's got Bobby Miller, young pitcher, lights out stuff.
It's just at a point in his career where he's
beyond his innings previously and he's got a really good bullpen.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
So he's going to have to mix and match.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
When you do that, there's going to be times when
the matchup doesn't turn out in your favor.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
It's gonna be an interesting series.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Now, what's interesting both in these National League series, Joe,
they play Game one, they have an off day, they
play Game two, they have an off day. If the
series goes five games, Dave Roberts in advance, the Dodgers
will have i think it's six of their first eight
postseason games after days off, so he will have rested

(49:39):
relievers at his ready. So you're going to see a
lot of pitching changes. And we just opened this podcast
by talking about, you know, making boneheaded moves based on
a script. In this case, I think it has to
be the Dodgers path forward. Now it's not scripted, but
when you see Dave Roberts making a lot of pitching moves,
I think in this case it's going to be done

(50:00):
out of necessity, no question.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
And I actually have one of my lineup cards here.
I don't know from Pittsburgh and twenty nineteen, but what
I do and what he's going to do is good
on the opposition lineup, and I would write down my
relief pitchers names in blocks, especially with the three batter minimum,
and he's gonna have in his head the number of
pitches whoever the picture is in the game, how many
pitches or innings he thinks he may get out of

(50:23):
this guy. So this is the time, absolutely that you
want to prescript things. I did it every game, but
under these circumstances like you're describing, it's going to become
even more pertinent because you really you want to have
a clear vision of what you want to do before
the game begins, and especially now with the day off.
My goodness, you could be so aggressive with these guys.
There's times that there might be they might be down

(50:45):
on one run or two runs, and normally they would
never bring so many into the game, but now they
would because they know tomorrow is off. There's a definite
advantage in those days off regarding how aggressive you could
use somebody in a small deficit, because of course, in
a small deficit, would never want to use your better
guys because we're playing tomorrow night and we got to
win three out of five. So there's a different strategy

(51:08):
involved in this, and utilization of pictures and when you
could actually employ them. All these things matter, All this
stuff matters, but this is a time absolutely I would
have the names written after my brief picture's names written
after their hitters' names in A one through nine, and
I put the guy's names. I would put like that
when I did with Johnny Lester, I had Lester on

(51:29):
Kipnessen and I drew a straight line down from there
and wrapped around, meaning I wanted to go, you know,
more than one time through if it's possible. So this
is what you do and you stick to that, and
that's when it's really helpful when you do that before
the game, because you want to be able to make
adaptations during the game, but you have to have something
solitude to work from going into it. That really helps you.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Two UCLA guys going out, Dave Roberts and Tory Leavello.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
That's going to be a fascinating series.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
I just hope Joe that I listen I love when
series go to the maximum number of games.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
A little disappointed we didn't get a game.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Three at all in the Wildcards series, so hopefully these
four division series will bring us to at least a
couple of game fives.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
No doubt. I mean the intensity of those of those
elimination games. I mean, although the second game was elimination
game for some guys, but to really get to the
point where it's either or it's absolutely wonderful. You know,
you're alive in a baseball sense, and it should bring
out the best in you. I think for me it's
not wasn't a nerve wracking experience. I would go through
my normal routine. I'm just talking as a manager, not

(52:33):
as a player. But you again, like I said, if
you prep this in your head, and again to emphasize
you're right, we should always, should always be prescripted. Absolutely.
Gene Mock played the game before, during, and after the game.
Gene taught me that said that to me, and I
don't know nineteen eighty four or five, whatever that was,
and I always did that ever since as a manager.
I played three times before, during, and after, and I

(52:57):
think the before component of it, that prep work really
helps you slow things down, because what happens some times
if you don't do that naturally, would be that the
game gets quick and things just pop up that you
did not anticipate, and all of a sudden you're scrambling
for a thought. And I'll tell you what. That happens
more in a National League game than an American League game,
because we had to be really cognizant of that picture.

(53:19):
Trust me, it gets kind of crazy. I'd say, Davy,
talk to me talking, what do I I would say
things out loud to him, where Brandon Heide, I would
say it out loud to them, I'll say it back
to me. So I got this thing right. It's true.
It's all true. So under the circumstances you want to
have a predetermination which you want to do. That's theory,
and then reality becomes something completely different.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
All good stuff, Joe.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
It reminds me of what Pablo Lopez, the picture for
the Minnesota Twins said at this time.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Of the year. Pressure is a privilege. That's right, love
that line.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
I'm sure you have something else even better to take
us out here on this latest edition of the Book
of Joe.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
Yeah, you know it. I was actually let me said,
I could frame this little bit I was. I read
or heard Jerry Depoto's line about the fifty percent.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, which he quickly walked back the next Yeah. By
the way, I think he realized, not too smart.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Yeah, it doesn't sound good. I understand what he was saying.
I guess you're just talking about consistency. And that led
to this first quote by Michelangelo. But then I'm going
to go out the second one that so I had
to rethink this a little bit. But what he's talking
about is this patient approach, and Michelangelo said genius is
eternal patience. So at that point I think that Jerry

(54:31):
was practicing internal patients in a sense. But also you
and I have talked about this one, and I think
it really this is the one I prefer. The greater
danger for most of us lies in not setting our
aim too high and falling short, but in setting our
aim too low and achieving our mark. So I think
in a sense, I mean that's what you're talking about there.
If you don't set it high enough, the threat is

(54:54):
that you're going to hit your mark. But then again,
there's a genius component to eternal patients. I know when
I came to the to the Cubs. In that first
press conference the Cup Bear, I said, I'm going to
talk about playoffs this year and I'm expecting to be
in the playoffs, said, I'm gonna talk World Series, et cetera.
I think you have to you have to stay there.
You can't. You can't always concede to what may go wrong.

(55:18):
You have to you have to anticipate something going good
and well. And your players have to believe that. They
have to hear you say that all the time. Everything
you do, everything you talk about, everything you say has
got to have that that component to it that we
are the best. In order to be the best, you
got to beat the best. All this. They have to
keep hearing this stuff every day and so that's that's

(55:39):
what motivated me to go to Michelangelo today was with
the clip I heard from Jerry a couple of days ago.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Good stuff.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
And by the way, those people in Seattle, they must
be geniuses because they've been paid in a long time
waiting to win a World Series.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
They didn't make it.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
The Rays are out, the Texas Rangers are still in it, though,
will they win their first World Series? Well, we got
a ways to go, but we got toiting Division series
coming up and can't wait till we talk about them
the next time we meet here.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
On the Book of Joe, You.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
Got it, brother, And I think Michaelangel was talking about
the Statue of David and the Sistine chap I think
he wasn't talking about the the al or nlds.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
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