November 22, 2023 • 43 mins
Why are there no NBA games on Thanksgiving? How are we feeling about the league's inaugural In-Season Tournament now that we know two of the eight teams (Lakers and Pacers) that will play in the knockout rounds? Can Indiana's Tyrese Haliburton or Minnesota's Anthony Edwards crash the MVP race? Chris Haynes and Marc Stein answer all of these questions on the latest episode of #thisleague UNCUT.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Our reactions to how the in season tournament is landing
league wide. Indiana's Tyres Halliburton in Minnesota's Anthony Edwards. Can
they force their way into this season's MVP race and
the sixty five game threshold? Lebron James, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant?
Will those thirty somethings all play at least sixty five
(00:23):
games to get themselves into the various award races they
want to compete in. All that's next here on this
League Uncut.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to this League Uncut.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Can you rule a.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Twenty four hour NDIA News. This's you Love, Chris Hans.
It's go time, work's time, It's some time. This League
Uncut is underway and on fire. This should be a
good one.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Everyone. Welcome in and Happy Thanksgiving from the whole this
League Uncut squad. Mark Stein here with Chris Haynes, producer
Ryan Music. We are recording on Wednesday afternoon. What time
is it on the East coast? After five on the
(01:16):
East coast. So the Milwaukee Boston Showdown that Chris Haynes
couldn't wait to see is almost here. That's just a
couple hours away. Also less than a day away now
for the hotel Haynes to be invaded by countless family members.
So a lot going on at the Haines Hotel in Sacramento.
(01:38):
I'm in La. I was man. I still want to
call it Staples every time I was at Thecrypto dot
Com arena last night, saw the Lakers dismantle the Jazz,
saw Lebron James score his thirty nine thousandth career point.
But even in Farrow, we're both in CALIFORNI on you
(02:00):
right now, even way out here, I think the talk
of the NBA as we woke up today was what
happened Indiana Atlanta, one fifty seven, one fifty two scoreboard overload.
Everyone around the league is going nuts about what Tyres
Halliburton is doing, and we will get to that in
a moment. But let us really we conceived doing this.
(02:22):
We don't normally tape at this afternoon hour, but we
did it Monday. We're doing it again today and this
way the pod will be out during Wednesday nights overloaded
slate of games. Fourteen games tonight, but nobody Chris Haynes
is playing tomorrow on Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is off in the NBA,
(02:43):
So We're gonna start with a trivia question. Once the
regular season begins. This season, it began on October twenty fourth.
The season typically lasts about one hundred and seventy days.
That's that's the ballpark figure. How many days from start
of the regular season in to end of the regular season?
Is there zero NBA basketball? An avid reader of my
(03:06):
sub stack like yourself should know this one, because I
actually put this in my substack recently. Since you read
every issue every since you read every post cover to cover,
I know you know this answer. How many days? How
many days out of those one seventy is there no
NBA basketball?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Since I didn't read your latest yet.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Or the one five or five six issues ago when
I actually wrote about this, I don't want to keep
calling it. They're not episode. These are episodes. Those are
just those are just plain old stories.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I'm gonna take an educated guess, we have hold on
answer this question real quick. Is alection they accounted for?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah? That's one of them?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
All right, Okay, two, that's two. I'm going to say four.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Very good guests, had you read the steinline cover to cover,
you would know that the answer is actually five. There
are five. There are only five. Once the regular season
clock starts ticking, there are only five days on the
calendar that there are no NBA games. Election Day, as
(04:25):
you said, which was November seventh this season, Thanksgiving Christmas Eve,
April eighth, which is the Monday that the NCAA Division
One Men's Basketball Championship is contested. That Monday night where
the Final four wraps up, there is no NBA games, sorry, Ryan, Three,
let me do it again, three two one, That Monday
(04:48):
night when the Final four wraps up with the championship game,
there are no NBA games that night, and then the
final day before the regular season April thirteenth. In this case,
because all thirty teen the way the NBA does it now,
all thirty teams play on the final day of the
regular season. So four, sorry, Ron, I got a cough
(05:13):
three two one, So four, I must say, was a
pretty good guess.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
So I've been covering ly with th this of my
thirteenth year. Now. I don't think I've ever recognized that
NBA games that have never been played on Christmas Eve.
I wouldn't yeah that.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
It actually was not always so that there were no
games on Thanksgiving. The one that stands out in my memory.
I'm sure there was more than one Thanksgiving that I
actually covered an NBA game, but the one that I
really remember my first year at ESPN was two thousand
and two, two thousand and three. That season I moved.
(05:56):
My first year at ESPN, they they made me live
in Connecticut, so I had just left Dallas. What happens
I leave Dallas and the Mavericks start the season fourteen
and oh, best start in franchise history. On that Thanksgiving
they played at Indiana and they lost. That was their
(06:17):
first loss of the season on Thanksgiving. So I do
remember that one. But it's more reason than that that
the NBA finally said, you know, we're going away from
Thanksgiving games. But yeah, so no Thanksgiving, no Christmas Eve. No,
they don't want to go head to head with the
final four championship game. And then they want everybody resting
(06:38):
on the last day before the regular season because they
want all thirty teams playing stein.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
But hold on, what I gatthered from that, What stuck
out to me is you spent an entire year in Bristol,
you actually had to move there.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You really want that whole story right now? And I've
told you this story.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
No, I didn't know what I know you ever lived
in Bristol.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, so my first year there, I was told that
I got the job, which obviously I was. You know,
it was career changing to get that job. And it's interesting.
I hope Steve Weish doesn't mind me telling this story
because Steve Weisch, who you probably know, outstanding reporter for
the NFL network. Steve Weisch and I went head to
(07:23):
head for two straight jobs the Washington Post. We both
interviewed for the Wizard's job to replace Rick Bucker, and
I had interned at the Post and Weysh beat me
out for that job, and I was crushed because having
interned for the Post, I badly wanted to be a
(07:44):
staff writer there. But Weysh beat me out for that one.
And then a few years later we both ended up
going for this ESPN dot com job, and this time
the fortune smiled upon me and I got it, and
I had been I had been freelancing for ESPN. It's funny.
In the early days of ESPN dot com, they didn't
(08:06):
have a full time NBA writer, so what they did
was David Aldrich was working on the TV side, and
then Buker ended up for them on the magazine and
they would both write for ESPN dot com. But they
were you know, Aldrich was ESPN's TV reporter on the
NBA and Rick Buker was a magazine staff writer. So
(08:29):
what they genuine what they did in the early days
of ESPN dot com, they filled, they would they it
was so small time back then that they basically they
only wrote on They only had a fresh new piece
on weekdays Monday through Friday, and it was basically one
new piece. And in those days there were only four divisions,
so they had freelancers from each of the four divisions
and then Aldrich would write once a week and that
(08:51):
was ESPN dot COM's coverage for years like that. So
so Mike Monroe, who I know, you know as well,
who's been in San Antonio for the last I don't know,
twenty odd years. After many many years in Denver, Mike
was the Midwest Division correspondent. He was covering the Nuggets
then for the Denver Post and covering the league for
the Denver Post. He got a job at Fox Sports
(09:14):
and that opened up a freelancer spot at ESPN on
the Midwest Division, and I started I got that, and
I started doing one Midwest Division column a week, so
that kind of got me in with ESPN. And then
when they finally had a full time opening, knock on Wood,
I get it. But the catch was we had to
move to Connecticut, and so we leave Dallas. I had
(09:37):
just gotten married, missus Stein was pregnant with our first born,
Alexander the Greatest, who was actually officially born in Hartford,
because that one year we lived there. And after year one,
I was like, guys, I'm two hours from the Nets,
(09:57):
I'm two hours from the Knicks, I'm two hours from
the cell I'm an outsider at all these places, and
it's so hard to get to Please let me go
back to Dallas.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
And they said, yes, all right, okay, I know, we
go get to basketball, but hold on, we'll get to basketball.
I promise we will. You just got married. Yeah, how
in the hell did you convince your wife to after
just getting married, to move to Bristol, Connecticut? Was it
was that easy?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
It was not easy. But missus Stein, she's the greatest.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Oh she's a keeper. Oh you knew you had some.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
She is a very very impatient and brave woman.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
No, literally literally and that was also that late late
in that summer we got married and the Foeba what
is now known as the FEBA World Cup, the World
Championships were in Indianapolis that September. So that like my
(10:59):
first assignment for ESPN, if I if I'm remembering this
right was doing the Feeble World what what now is
the Feeble World Cup. So it's like right away, had
to just jump right into it. Then the season started,
move move to Connecticut and one year in central Connecticut.
Let's just say that was that was plenty.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Wow, I understand I spent man. I would go there
when when I was at ESPN, I probably went to
Bristol twelve about twelve times a year, and uh, I
couldn't imagine being there three hundred and sixty five days.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, it is great when you fly in, stay at
the hotel for three days, do a bunch of TV,
high five everybody, and then you're off to the airport.
That that's great, that's fine. But yeah, that was a
missus Stein I mean, because I mean we got married
and a year later had our had our first had
(11:55):
our firstborn. It was a lot. It was a lot.
There was a lot going on.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I'd just like it. I just like I hope people
appreciate that too. Just just the stories you know, here
in the here, in the flight of getting up there,
and what it takes, the chances you have to take
just to.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Put a bow on all that. Then you know, Steve
Weish swiftly move over to the NFL and became an
NFL reporting superstar. So he he, he did just fine
without the NBA in his life. So shout out to
Steve Weish.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Awesome story, awesome story.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And then Chris Haynes takes me miles off course.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Let the spirit move you. Nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
So Chris Haynes, now it's my turn to ask some questions.
We've seen a lot of n Season Tournament basketball, and
last night everybody got so excited about the in the
Atlanta game. So now that we've I mean, you know
where the crotchety old man stands. Tell me what you're seeing.
(12:58):
How is the nd season tournament winning you over to
any degree? Are you more into it than you were?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Talk to me. I wouldn't know that it's winning me over.
Can I tell that there's a difference. I'm gonna tell
you that the slight difference that I can tell and play.
It's towards the end of the game, and I'm going
to point to a Milwaukee Bucks Charlotte Hornet's game. Adrian
(13:31):
Griffin left his starters in longer in the game that
they had already. You know, they had it won, but
they left them in longer than usual because you know
the point differential that plays a factor into it. You know,
if there's a tiebreaker, then it goes by the point differential.
And I think cliff I didn't notice at the time,
(13:52):
but I guess Steve Clifford had a problem and Adrian
Grifford had to talk to Clifford and tell them, hey,
nothing per You know, I wouldn't ordinarily do this, but
you know, this is the way this n season tournament
is set up. So we're trying to win it, uh
by as much as possible. And stein I love that.
(14:14):
I love it. You know, I'm not one of those
ones that that that talks about. Hey, you know there's
a rule, there's an unwritten rule you don't shoot the
ball when you're okay, I get it. Yeah, all right,
it'd be nice if they did, But you know what
else you can do. You can play defense to the end.
You can do that. So I kind of like, you know,
(14:36):
leaving guys in a little bit longer, especially you know,
you know, sometimes guys just need a rhythm and you
want to you know, you want you wanted to try
to flow into the next game. But so that's that's
the only difference, you know, just in strategy that I've
seen noticeably seen. But now as we get into the
later rounds of this end season tournament, you know, I
think that's where we're going to really because players, players
(14:59):
and coaches they're still trying to figure out like how
significant this is. They know it's something different, but I
think it's going to take to the latter stages of
it until we really see a true difference maker.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
What about yourself, Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, you know,
I've been such a loud skeptic, so I don't want
to keep harping on the same stuff because I mean, look,
the natural question after a game last night, like we
saw Indiana one fifty seven Atlanta one fifty two, the
natural question that people are gonna pose is was that
(15:31):
because of the n season tournament where these teams more
dialed in, because the Pacers were trying to clinch their
spot atop the group. And you know, last night we
did get the first two teams. The Pacers and the
Lakers are the first two of the eight quarterfinalists, and
the eight and the quarterfinals, that's when this thing becomes
a knockout competition. But look, I I'm just not buying that.
(15:56):
And again, people, presumably people at the league off will say, Stein,
You're just you're never gonna give this thing a chance.
There's nothing we could do to convince you. But I mean,
I'm I'm sorry. I'm old enough to remember an early
season game. In this case, it was early December, but
of course starring Steve Nash against Jason Kidd, Phoenix against
(16:18):
Brooklyn oh six oh seven range, So you know, a
good fifteen years ago. But okay, December two thousand and six,
says producer Ryan Suns won sixty one nets one fifty seven. Yes,
that went to double overtime, but that was the same
(16:39):
kind of crazy game. And you know, so was last
night's score line and intensity inspired by the n season tournament.
I don't know that there's any way to prove it.
I just want this thing to get to the knockout point.
And you know my initial quarrel with it, and I
know this is not easy to do. What I'm asking
(17:00):
for is not easy. It cannot be just like soccer,
where in these the soccer tournaments that the ND season
Tournament is modeled after, it is not just single elimination,
but it has teams from other divisions. We don't have
that model in North American major team sports. It's not
easy for the NBA to just bring in two extra
(17:21):
teams from the EuroLeague or the G League or whatever.
It's just it's just not logistically easy to do. But
what I think people are gonna really love is when
this thing gets to the final four, especially when we
get to Vegas, there are four teams. There are real
knockout games eventually down the road. What I really hope,
(17:42):
because I'm sorry, these group games just don't do anything
for me. And the courts. It's not about the courts.
The courts. There's very mixed opinions about the courts. Some
people hate them, some people grudgingly like them. Whether you
hate them or like them, they get us talking. But
that's just cause medic nonsense. That's not that people. People.
(18:04):
People are not gonna watch even if they love the court.
They're not gonna watch a bunch of games because they're
not gonna go, oh, yes, this is Game three with
our awesome court. It's just that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
But it's just a differentiate from the regular season games,
that's all people.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Well, the reason they need that is because these four
group games that everybody plays are regular season games that
count twice. And that's the part that I just I
just don't like that, and I just hope that in
the future down the road, you know, is this something
they can actually carve out of the eighty two games?
Can they? Because they don't want to add to eighty two.
(18:43):
They certainly don't want to make the season longer than
it is. So you're not you can't add games to
eighty two. It's already too long. But can they take
out a week or two of the regular season? And again,
all thirty teams and all of us know it all,
and all of us, the old men like me, we
all go to Vegas for a week or two and
(19:04):
just play a thirty team knockout tournament. Put all the
teams in a hat, mix it up, mix up East
and West. That's another thing that drives me nuts about this.
East and West are kept apart until the championship game.
Why we do that in the playoffs? It would be
better if East and West were mixed up here too,
so we could just have some variety, something truly different
(19:24):
besides courts and uniform. So I just hope down the
road that's where we go, because I you know, I
know you'll be in Vegas. I'm trying to get myself
to Vegas. I do want to see what happens in
Vegas when it's neutral site, true knockout. And you know,
I do think players are more excited about the idea
(19:45):
of winning five hundred grand each then we probably realize.
I think I think guys do care about that, but
only the winning team gets that much.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
So with your suggestion in carving out another week or
two throughout the regular season to do this, right, would
those stats go into the regular season stats or it
would be separate because if I if you say no,
players would not go for that.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Hey, and you just raised a tremendous counterpoint because I say,
I would say it should be completely separate. Yeah, that
a tournament should be separate. But you're absolutely right. Even
if you could do this thing in a week, And
I don't think you could do it all in one week.
I think it would have to it would have to
stretch into a second week because otherwise you'd have you'd
(20:34):
have back to backs. So I don't think you want
to just do it in one single week. But yeah,
I mean it's four, five, six games or I guess
if you if I mean, if it's true single elimination,
you might only play one game. Yeah, I mean, I
(20:55):
think it needs to be separate. And again it's not
that's not easy to do either. You just raised a
great point, and then there's other logistical issues. What happens
to the team that lose, you know, six you know,
if you have a thirty team tournament, Let's say you
give buys to the top two seeds and then twenty
eight teams play in the first round, So fourteen teams
are only going to play one game. Then a bunch
(21:15):
of teams will only play two games. I mean, it
does create a whole bunch of issues. But my point is,
if we don't have teams from other leagues competing, we
have to emphasize the knockout portion of the show. That's
the part that will make it truly different and get
people excited if there's a knockout competition, if the Boston
(21:39):
Celtics get a terrible draw and have to play a
really good team early and then the Celtics are knocked
out and that opens it up for somebody else, Like
that is more of a true tournament than what this
is in year one.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
But overall, I think we have to wait until we
get to the knockout stage to see just because I
think that's where we're really going to see the intensity
picked up. Because again, you know that these the group
play and these different divisions, nobody really knows who's in
what group you know, nobody has that memorize yet exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I don't even know. Yeah, I mean it's really hard
to keep track of it.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, that's that's that's that's why I'm saying, like when
it gets to a lot of stages, like that's where
you're really going to be able to tell, Okay, this
is serious. This is And then I forgot Producer Ryan.
I don't want to stop taping, but Producer Ryan, if
you can find there was a player who suggested I
think was some star level player this past week suggested
(22:38):
that the n season tournament winner should get a free
birth to the playoffs, so by him, whoever this individual
is they said this past week, I think it was Halliburton.
I think it was I believe it was Halliburton. And
(22:58):
if if they're suggesting that Stein, that would lead me
to believe that most probably don't think five hundred thousand
is enough to be on board and fully, you know,
engulfed in this end season tournament. So if they're still
coming up with different suggestions, it was Halliburton, Thank you producer, Brian,
(23:19):
Thank you Stein. So I don't know, I don't think.
I don't like that, you know, because then you just
and the ain't like, why are you even playing the
rest of the regular seasons if you are already got
to automatically.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And that's that's probably too much. And you know, then
there was the you know, whoever wins should get draft
compensation for their team, and then you know, why would
the players care about getting their team draft picks so
they can replace someone who's already on the current roster.
So look, you just did it very well where I
throughout my scenario and right away you came up with
(23:51):
what happens to the stats and that is a big deal.
And so whatever format we propose, whatever changes are thrown
out there, there will always be counter arguments to it
and logistical problems that the NBA is going to have
to smooth over. And I think that's a big reason
why they chose this format for year one, because by
choosing the way they've done it, by making four group
(24:14):
games essentially be regular season games that count twice, the
only schedule gymnastics they have to do. Now there's you know,
the week in early December where they've got to come
up with games for the team. You know, teams that
don't advance to the quarterfinals have to add a couple
of games to their schedule because teams were only given
(24:35):
eighty games at the beginning of the season rather than
eighty two. But this NBA, the format the NBA has chosen,
it only adds one extra game to the schedule for
the two teams that make the championship game on December ninth.
So I think what really appealed to them was that
they could go through this whole experiment in year one
without causing a lot of disruption. What I'm proposing would
(24:58):
cause more option because even if you go to Vegas
for a week and a half. There will be teams
that lose home dates. They will not like that. They
don't want to give up. The teams that do well
at the gate especially, are not gonna want to forfeit
home games because now they're losing revenue. And there will
(25:18):
be scheduling nightmares that the NBA would have to confront
because with true single elimination, obviously only two teams make
the finals, and so all the teams in the tournament,
all thirty, are playing a different number of games, and
that causes its own share of problems. So I do
get all that, But again, to me, why did they
(25:40):
ask ll cool Jy to redo? Mama said, knock you out?
Because the knockout part that's the good stuff, you know.
That's like group games that aren't really group games, regular
season games disguised as group games. They just again, like
you said, it's too hard to follow. Who's an A B?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
I mean, yeah, that's and let me let me elaborate
just so people understand what I'm talking about. With players,
most players wouldn't go for not having their stouts their
stats accounted for. No player wants to play five games
and say that they're on a hot streak in that
five games earlier in the season. They don't want those
stats just wiped away. Don't count, you know, you know,
(26:27):
don't it matters. You know, it matters. You know, they
all you know, their their time and you know, so
I know, you know, I spoken to a few players
about that already, and that was that was one of
their concerns before the season tournament was even implemented. So
I know that would be something that they will probably
push back on. You know, playoffs that's a different story,
(26:50):
you know, playoffs of the playoffs stats, you know, their
stats for the playoffs. But that that is that is
something else that they would have an issue with. They
tried to just say the stats would not wouldn't go
into the regular season numbers.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Now, though, I'm going to pay a compliment to the
n season Tournament because I do think this is somewhat
of a factor. To me, there's been less MVP chatter
in November, which always strikes me as a little too
early to get too deep into it. But look, the
reason one of the main reasons that this inn season
(27:31):
tournament was conceived by the NBA. Obviously it's about money
and about creating content and a product that they can
offer up to potential partners in a new media rights
deal to maybe sell the tournament separately to a rights holder.
So I mean, there's all kinds of financial incentives for
(27:54):
potentially doing it, but also something that is long concerned
the NBA is trying to make the regular season more meaningful.
And one of the reasons we've talked about this before
on this spot, and this is one of my favorite
things to kind of remind everyone about, is the reason
the NBA never pushes back on heated NBA debate or
(28:18):
NBA debates that start really early in the season, probably
earlier than they should. It's because, again, winning the regular
season MVP Award probably the highest individual honor that there
is in the sport that gives the regular season meaning
and the league's hope was that the n season tournament
(28:38):
could add to that and become something else that gets
people excited in November and December when normally all the
focus is on the NFL and college football. But one
of the benefits this season, I think, and maybe it's
an unintended benefit, or maybe there's no correlation and I'm
just inventing a correlation but I feel like there's been
(29:00):
so much focus from the league on marketing the n
season tournament and working on n Season tournament awareness that
there's somehow been less MVP chatter than we normally get
this time of year. And then I kind of violated
my own rule to an extent by writing about the
MVP race on Tuesday and my substack. But the point
(29:22):
really wasn't to say who is or isn't leading the chase,
or you know, it's way too soon for that kind
of talk, but really just to kind of bring home
the point as something to discuss, something to monitor, something
to keep our eyes on, because again, it is amazing
that no American player has won the MVP, the regular
(29:46):
season MVP award in the NBA. No American has won
that since a former Houston Rocket I'm sure you remember,
named James Harden in twenty seventeen eighteen. Since then, it's
been Yannis twice, it's been Jokic twice. EMBIID last year,
Luka Doncic widely considered a future MVP, he doesn't have
(30:07):
one yet. Canada Shay Gilgess, Alexander he ended up on
the All NBA First Team last year, so you got
those five foreign players having accounted for the last five MVPs,
and Doncic and Sga as contenders to join that club
in the future. So there's not a lot of room
(30:29):
for new competition. But I wanted to just throw that
out there because it's been interesting at the start of
the season just to see the various guys who are
off the good starts. Jason Tatum is off to a
huge start in Boston, and this brings me back to Halliburton,
who is you know, if the Pacers can make a
run at fifty wins, I mean, Halliburton is gonna He's
(30:52):
gonna be in this discussion.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
And again, you know this is we're early in the season.
With that being said, let me look at some of
the players, American players who have a shot. I still
think you have to put Joker up there. You gotta
put in Bead up there, Johannis for sure, like those
are probably the three favorites, the three top favorites to
(31:16):
win the award. But what American has a legitimate shot?
Tatum possibly Boston got off to a pretty quick quick start.
I still think that's an uphill battle. You know, Kim Minnesota,
b is this sustainable, you know, will they remain a
top of the West, And if so, Anthony Edwards definitely
(31:37):
has to be considered.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yes, indeed I should have mentioned him, That's my bad.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, But aside from that stunt, I mean, ty Pacers,
I gotta see more. I gotta no question.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
But that's why it's too early to get into specifics,
like what's Haliburton's chances? But he's played so well and
look Maxie too, Tyrese Maxie's now is he going to
Is MAXI gonna be able to keep his production where
it's been in Philly? And is he ever gonna be
able to beat out Joel Embiid on his own team?
But you said it. If Minnesota continues to live at
the top of the West, the upper tier of the
(32:10):
Western Conference, Anthony Edwards is going to be in this discussion.
And if Indiana can make a run at fifty wins,
I do think Caliburton will at least get a mention
and then then it's you know, but these thirty somethings
are just amazing. Lebron turns thirty nine in December, Stephen
Curry turns thirty six in March. Kevin Durant just turned
(32:32):
thirty five in September. All three of them are playing
at an MVP level. Now, will their teams win enough
for them to get in the top five. That's something
to watch. But there, you know, it's it's just it's
I just threw it out there yesterday. Is just something
to monitor and to keep in your mind. It's an
interesting thing. It's a fun game to play. Who is
(32:56):
the next slash, first American who can and this dominance
of international stars and for many of our colleagues, fellow pundits,
Jason Tatum was a very popular preseason pick to be
the guy and win his first MVP. But yeah, I mean,
I think you said it. I mean, the conversation still
(33:18):
starts with Joker, Jannison Embiid and I think you know,
Luca not far off depending on how many games the
MAVs win and the Thunder have been spectacular early. So
I mean, that's certainly going to help SGA's case. And
there is a lot of international stardom at the top
of this race.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
And suppose another question too, Stein, So say we do
have an American born MVP coming up, will it be
a retread or will it be somebody new? So let
me rephrase that. Do you think the chances are higher
(33:57):
that the next American MVP is retreat or a new
MVP winner?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I think new. And the reason I say that is
because we also have to factor in the sixty five
game rule. And the reality is Lebron, what he's doing
right now is at his at you know, at almost
thirty nine has never been seen before. I mean, what
the stat came out today's shooting like sixty six percent
in fourth quarters. Steph was playing lights out until he
(34:29):
had the knee injury that knocked him out for a
few games. And Durant is playing second or third most
minutes in the league. They haven't even seen Bradley Beal
yet and Durant's been out of this world. So the
question the question for those three guys, it's twofold A.
Are their teams gonna win enough for them to get
up the ladder? Up the MVP ladder? And b will
(34:54):
will those three guys play sixty five games?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Because now, correct me if I'm wrong, sty the sixty
five game is required even for all NBA teams. Correct, yes,
they will if they if they're healthy, They're not a lot. Look,
Lebron KD. They're not gonna waste the season, not trying
to steal accumulate awards. That that's that's not gonna happen.
(35:20):
So if they are healthy enough, they're going for that.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Believe me, those guys it's championship or BUS. So you're
telling me they're gonna.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
It's still They're still added to their legacy. No, it
still matters. It still matters. Lebron is not if he
has a chance to add another All NBA to his resume,
he's adding it. Kevin Durant, same thing. They are not
wasting season. Yes, championship BUS, but no, they're adding to
their legacy right now. That is very important. So I
(35:49):
guarantee you whatever maintenance plan they have, intact resting plan
or whatever it is taken into consideration on how, you know,
how they can get that rest and still get the
sixty five games. Now, you can't account for injuries that
happen and things like that. But no, Stein, No, they're
still trying to add to their resume.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
See this is good you on multiple occasions in this
festive Thanksgiving pod, you took this conversation into directions that
I was not expecting. So kudos to you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
The holiday season. Stein, That's what happens, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
And it's funny because it's so funny because obviously we
can see each other as we're recording this, and our
audience cannot. But it's been funny in this You in
this episode, you are the calm. You are the calm
one trying to, you know, be the wise old head.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Stein.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Just calm down, let's see. You know you're trying to
You're trying to bring a restrained, relaxed tone to the conversation.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Well, I have about twenty five other family members arriving today,
so I'm trying to prepare myself.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
They're all, it's all today, they're getting today.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, and most of them get in today. I have already,
I got a household of fifteen right now in the house.
So it's amazing that you haven't heard any noise, you know,
in anything right now.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
So I guess my point is, I think you've enjoyed
taking the role of the old head in this one.
Letting me go off on my on my little n
season tournament tangents and well.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Listen, I mean it comes with age. That's what happens,
you know what I'm saying, Stein, so I wouldn't you know,
I wouldn't say this is the new me. You know,
I'll probably go back to my old self in the
next episode, but it is what it is right now. Stein,
I'm feeling good right now. You know. Sweet potato pie
is my favorite pie, my favorite dessert of all time.
You got to have your some, Stein, if you've never
(37:46):
had any sweeptail pie. Anyway, my mom is down there
and I smell it right now. I smell it coming
out the oven right now. So I'm in a good mood, Steyn,
So you are.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
And you so all this food is being prepared at
the Hotel Haynes as we speak.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
The desserts right now being made, Yes, and.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
You are not going to touch it until tomorrow. You're
not going to touch anything till tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Oh no, I'm stealing a pie. My mom makes about
seven sweep until pies. I'm still in one and I'm
hiding it in my room and so I'll be eating that. Yeah,
I'm eating that tonight. Yes, you see, I'm trying to
try to whisper.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Do you think anyone coming to your house listens to
our podcast?
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Uh? Yeah, they listened, but they listen. They'll they'll hear
it like weeks later at that time.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Cool, you know, missus Haynes won't hear this podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
You hear it weeks later, you hear weeks later. Like, girl,
I already said that. You know, I was just I'm like,
that was just in a moment. Don't worry about it, girl,
You know because I told her. I let her know, Hey,
occasionally you come up occasionally, our relationship occasionally, you know
the struggles we go through. Yeah, see she liked that one.
(38:58):
That was cool. She got that way. She said, as
long as you let them know that, you're the one
to take most of the losses. I'm like, yeah, I
told the truth. Yeah, you take all the laws. I
told the truth. That's sure.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
You're playing for a tie. Everyone, thanks so much for
joining us. I hope you have we Hope you have
a tremendous Thanksgiving. Hope you get some good family time again.
No NBA games on Thanksgiving, So hopefully if you have
some NBA cravings or you find yourself in the midst
(39:32):
of a hillacious holiday commute, bring us with you. Listen
to us when you're on the man being here in
La people. I mean, the talk about Thanksgiving traffic. It
starts on Tuesday. The just shocking images of cars stacked
(39:53):
on the freeway and nobody moving.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
I have to I have to go shout out to
Carlos Garcia. You know, I like to shout out people
who reach out and say they've listened to the pod.
Carlos Garcia reached out to me on I G I'm
showing you right here, Stein, and in it, he says,
could I posted a picture? I posted a story of
my ham that I purchased from the Honey Baked Ham
(40:16):
company that you seem to have no idea about. He says,
Mark didn't know nothing about that on the podcast, and
he's just lot laughing, dying, laughing. You gotta you gotta
check that. And Michael Wright, my colleague over there at
NBA dot com, he sent me a picture. You listened
to our pod, sent me a picture of his honey
Baked ham that he purchased, and he says, Stein, gotta
he gotta get on point. You gotta find out about
(40:37):
that now, Stein, you probably don't eat ham? Am I safe?
Is that? Is that?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (40:41):
It's not good?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I got it, I get it. I wanted to make
that clear.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
But but I've been, but as as uh as my
dear high school friend Dave Casera's remind me. I've been
to many holiday parties of his, back when we were younger,
when they had when they had honey baked ham. So
I've even been to events where it was served.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I just didn't understood understood, so I would to Hey,
I'm doing that for you, Starle, letting the listeners know
there's a reason you probably don't not that all.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
That, so you already you already posted this IG.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
I posted my honey baked ham to IG yesterday on
my story, so I want to give it.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
You know, I am hopeless. You know I am hopeless
when when the initials IG come into the conversation.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
I can't wait. I can't wait. Hey, And I wish
everybody out there again a non violent Thanksgiving holiday week
and weekend, because we know where family gets together, Hey,
it gets there's turbulence sometimes. So you know, I just
(41:49):
hope that you know all you do is is have peace,
love and good food and good companies.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
So that will have to get the report. We'll have
to get the report next time we do one of
these on how it went.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Oh Stan, I'm gonna tell you right now that ain't
going down over here. It's going to be Oh, I'll
let you know. I'll give you the report. I'll have
an update the post Thanksgiving episode on how everything went down.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
We need an exact count of how many guests there were.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Yep, how I helped my tongue, didn't say anything, wanted
to say something. How I looked at somebody crazy, but
I didn't take it to the next level. Those things happen.
It's family, you love them, It's family. It's all good,
It's all good.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
I'm ready, all right, everyone that is going to do
it for this Thanksgiving edition of This League Uncut. Chris
and I will be back very early next week with
our next episode. Of course, if you haven't already, please
remember to rate, review, and subscribe to the show. Apple Podcasts,
(42:56):
Spotify podcast, wherever, hashtag, wherever you get your pods. You
could do it. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. We are very thankful
for everyone who listens and joins us every episode. Talk to.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And That'll do it for us. See you next time.
This League uncutage an iHeartRadio production Chris Haines and Mark
Stein
Our reactions to how the in season tournament is landing
league wide. Indiana's Tyres Halliburton in Minnesota's Anthony Edwards. Can
they force their way into this season's MVP race and
the sixty five game threshold? Lebron James, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant?
Will those thirty somethings all play at least sixty five
(00:23):
games to get themselves into the various award races they
want to compete in. All that's next here on this
League Uncut.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to this League Uncut.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Can you rule a.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Twenty four hour NDIA News. This's you Love, Chris Hans.
It's go time, work's time, It's some time. This League
Uncut is underway and on fire. This should be a
good one.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Everyone. Welcome in and Happy Thanksgiving from the whole this
League Uncut squad. Mark Stein here with Chris Haynes, producer
Ryan Music. We are recording on Wednesday afternoon. What time
is it on the East coast? After five on the
(01:16):
East coast. So the Milwaukee Boston Showdown that Chris Haynes
couldn't wait to see is almost here. That's just a
couple hours away. Also less than a day away now
for the hotel Haynes to be invaded by countless family members.
So a lot going on at the Haines Hotel in Sacramento.
(01:38):
I'm in La. I was man. I still want to
call it Staples every time I was at Thecrypto dot
Com arena last night, saw the Lakers dismantle the Jazz,
saw Lebron James score his thirty nine thousandth career point.
But even in Farrow, we're both in CALIFORNI on you
(02:00):
right now, even way out here, I think the talk
of the NBA as we woke up today was what
happened Indiana Atlanta, one fifty seven, one fifty two scoreboard overload.
Everyone around the league is going nuts about what Tyres
Halliburton is doing, and we will get to that in
a moment. But let us really we conceived doing this.
(02:22):
We don't normally tape at this afternoon hour, but we
did it Monday. We're doing it again today and this
way the pod will be out during Wednesday nights overloaded
slate of games. Fourteen games tonight, but nobody Chris Haynes
is playing tomorrow on Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is off in the NBA,
(02:43):
So We're gonna start with a trivia question. Once the
regular season begins. This season, it began on October twenty fourth.
The season typically lasts about one hundred and seventy days.
That's that's the ballpark figure. How many days from start
of the regular season in to end of the regular season?
Is there zero NBA basketball? An avid reader of my
(03:06):
sub stack like yourself should know this one, because I
actually put this in my substack recently. Since you read
every issue every since you read every post cover to cover,
I know you know this answer. How many days? How
many days out of those one seventy is there no
NBA basketball?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Since I didn't read your latest yet.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Or the one five or five six issues ago when
I actually wrote about this, I don't want to keep
calling it. They're not episode. These are episodes. Those are
just those are just plain old stories.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I'm gonna take an educated guess, we have hold on
answer this question real quick. Is alection they accounted for?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah? That's one of them?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
All right, Okay, two, that's two. I'm going to say four.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Very good guests, had you read the steinline cover to cover,
you would know that the answer is actually five. There
are five. There are only five. Once the regular season
clock starts ticking, there are only five days on the
calendar that there are no NBA games. Election Day, as
(04:25):
you said, which was November seventh this season, Thanksgiving Christmas Eve,
April eighth, which is the Monday that the NCAA Division
One Men's Basketball Championship is contested. That Monday night where
the Final four wraps up, there is no NBA games, sorry, Ryan, Three,
let me do it again, three two one, That Monday
(04:48):
night when the Final four wraps up with the championship game,
there are no NBA games that night, and then the
final day before the regular season April thirteenth. In this case,
because all thirty teen the way the NBA does it now,
all thirty teams play on the final day of the
regular season. So four, sorry, Ron, I got a cough
(05:13):
three two one, So four, I must say, was a
pretty good guess.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
So I've been covering ly with th this of my
thirteenth year. Now. I don't think I've ever recognized that
NBA games that have never been played on Christmas Eve.
I wouldn't yeah that.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
It actually was not always so that there were no
games on Thanksgiving. The one that stands out in my memory.
I'm sure there was more than one Thanksgiving that I
actually covered an NBA game, but the one that I
really remember my first year at ESPN was two thousand
and two, two thousand and three. That season I moved.
(05:56):
My first year at ESPN, they they made me live
in Connecticut, so I had just left Dallas. What happens
I leave Dallas and the Mavericks start the season fourteen
and oh, best start in franchise history. On that Thanksgiving
they played at Indiana and they lost. That was their
(06:17):
first loss of the season on Thanksgiving. So I do
remember that one. But it's more reason than that that
the NBA finally said, you know, we're going away from
Thanksgiving games. But yeah, so no Thanksgiving, no Christmas Eve. No,
they don't want to go head to head with the
final four championship game. And then they want everybody resting
(06:38):
on the last day before the regular season because they
want all thirty teams playing stein.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
But hold on, what I gatthered from that, What stuck
out to me is you spent an entire year in Bristol,
you actually had to move there.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You really want that whole story right now? And I've
told you this story.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
No, I didn't know what I know you ever lived
in Bristol.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, so my first year there, I was told that
I got the job, which obviously I was. You know,
it was career changing to get that job. And it's interesting.
I hope Steve Weish doesn't mind me telling this story
because Steve Weisch, who you probably know, outstanding reporter for
the NFL network. Steve Weisch and I went head to
(07:23):
head for two straight jobs the Washington Post. We both
interviewed for the Wizard's job to replace Rick Bucker, and
I had interned at the Post and Weysh beat me
out for that job, and I was crushed because having
interned for the Post, I badly wanted to be a
(07:44):
staff writer there. But Weysh beat me out for that one.
And then a few years later we both ended up
going for this ESPN dot com job, and this time
the fortune smiled upon me and I got it, and
I had been I had been freelancing for ESPN. It's funny.
In the early days of ESPN dot com, they didn't
(08:06):
have a full time NBA writer, so what they did
was David Aldrich was working on the TV side, and
then Buker ended up for them on the magazine and
they would both write for ESPN dot com. But they
were you know, Aldrich was ESPN's TV reporter on the
NBA and Rick Buker was a magazine staff writer. So
(08:29):
what they genuine what they did in the early days
of ESPN dot com, they filled, they would they it
was so small time back then that they basically they
only wrote on They only had a fresh new piece
on weekdays Monday through Friday, and it was basically one
new piece. And in those days there were only four divisions,
so they had freelancers from each of the four divisions
and then Aldrich would write once a week and that
(08:51):
was ESPN dot COM's coverage for years like that. So
so Mike Monroe, who I know, you know as well,
who's been in San Antonio for the last I don't know,
twenty odd years. After many many years in Denver, Mike
was the Midwest Division correspondent. He was covering the Nuggets
then for the Denver Post and covering the league for
the Denver Post. He got a job at Fox Sports
(09:14):
and that opened up a freelancer spot at ESPN on
the Midwest Division, and I started I got that, and
I started doing one Midwest Division column a week, so
that kind of got me in with ESPN. And then
when they finally had a full time opening, knock on Wood,
I get it. But the catch was we had to
move to Connecticut, and so we leave Dallas. I had
(09:37):
just gotten married, missus Stein was pregnant with our first born,
Alexander the Greatest, who was actually officially born in Hartford,
because that one year we lived there. And after year one,
I was like, guys, I'm two hours from the Nets,
(09:57):
I'm two hours from the Knicks, I'm two hours from
the cell I'm an outsider at all these places, and
it's so hard to get to Please let me go
back to Dallas.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
And they said, yes, all right, okay, I know, we
go get to basketball, but hold on, we'll get to basketball.
I promise we will. You just got married. Yeah, how
in the hell did you convince your wife to after
just getting married, to move to Bristol, Connecticut? Was it
was that easy?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
It was not easy. But missus Stein, she's the greatest.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Oh she's a keeper. Oh you knew you had some.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
She is a very very impatient and brave woman.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
No, literally literally and that was also that late late
in that summer we got married and the Foeba what
is now known as the FEBA World Cup, the World
Championships were in Indianapolis that September. So that like my
(10:59):
first assignment for ESPN, if I if I'm remembering this
right was doing the Feeble World what what now is
the Feeble World Cup. So it's like right away, had
to just jump right into it. Then the season started,
move move to Connecticut and one year in central Connecticut.
Let's just say that was that was plenty.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Wow, I understand I spent man. I would go there
when when I was at ESPN, I probably went to
Bristol twelve about twelve times a year, and uh, I
couldn't imagine being there three hundred and sixty five days.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, it is great when you fly in, stay at
the hotel for three days, do a bunch of TV,
high five everybody, and then you're off to the airport.
That that's great, that's fine. But yeah, that was a
missus Stein I mean, because I mean we got married
and a year later had our had our first had
(11:55):
our firstborn. It was a lot. It was a lot.
There was a lot going on.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I'd just like it. I just like I hope people
appreciate that too. Just just the stories you know, here
in the here, in the flight of getting up there,
and what it takes, the chances you have to take
just to.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Put a bow on all that. Then you know, Steve
Weish swiftly move over to the NFL and became an
NFL reporting superstar. So he he, he did just fine
without the NBA in his life. So shout out to
Steve Weish.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Awesome story, awesome story.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And then Chris Haynes takes me miles off course.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Let the spirit move you. Nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
So Chris Haynes, now it's my turn to ask some questions.
We've seen a lot of n Season Tournament basketball, and
last night everybody got so excited about the in the
Atlanta game. So now that we've I mean, you know
where the crotchety old man stands. Tell me what you're seeing.
(12:58):
How is the nd season tournament winning you over to
any degree? Are you more into it than you were?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Talk to me. I wouldn't know that it's winning me over.
Can I tell that there's a difference. I'm gonna tell
you that the slight difference that I can tell and play.
It's towards the end of the game, and I'm going
to point to a Milwaukee Bucks Charlotte Hornet's game. Adrian
(13:31):
Griffin left his starters in longer in the game that
they had already. You know, they had it won, but
they left them in longer than usual because you know
the point differential that plays a factor into it. You know,
if there's a tiebreaker, then it goes by the point differential.
And I think cliff I didn't notice at the time,
(13:52):
but I guess Steve Clifford had a problem and Adrian
Grifford had to talk to Clifford and tell them, hey,
nothing per You know, I wouldn't ordinarily do this, but
you know, this is the way this n season tournament
is set up. So we're trying to win it, uh
by as much as possible. And stein I love that.
(14:14):
I love it. You know, I'm not one of those
ones that that that talks about. Hey, you know there's
a rule, there's an unwritten rule you don't shoot the
ball when you're okay, I get it. Yeah, all right,
it'd be nice if they did, But you know what
else you can do. You can play defense to the end.
You can do that. So I kind of like, you know,
(14:36):
leaving guys in a little bit longer, especially you know,
you know, sometimes guys just need a rhythm and you
want to you know, you want you wanted to try
to flow into the next game. But so that's that's
the only difference, you know, just in strategy that I've
seen noticeably seen. But now as we get into the
later rounds of this end season tournament, you know, I
think that's where we're going to really because players, players
(14:59):
and coaches they're still trying to figure out like how
significant this is. They know it's something different, but I
think it's going to take to the latter stages of
it until we really see a true difference maker.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
What about yourself, Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, you know,
I've been such a loud skeptic, so I don't want
to keep harping on the same stuff because I mean, look,
the natural question after a game last night, like we
saw Indiana one fifty seven Atlanta one fifty two, the
natural question that people are gonna pose is was that
(15:31):
because of the n season tournament where these teams more
dialed in, because the Pacers were trying to clinch their
spot atop the group. And you know, last night we
did get the first two teams. The Pacers and the
Lakers are the first two of the eight quarterfinalists, and
the eight and the quarterfinals, that's when this thing becomes
a knockout competition. But look, I I'm just not buying that.
(15:56):
And again, people, presumably people at the league off will say, Stein,
You're just you're never gonna give this thing a chance.
There's nothing we could do to convince you. But I mean,
I'm I'm sorry. I'm old enough to remember an early
season game. In this case, it was early December, but
of course starring Steve Nash against Jason Kidd, Phoenix against
(16:18):
Brooklyn oh six oh seven range, So you know, a
good fifteen years ago. But okay, December two thousand and six,
says producer Ryan Suns won sixty one nets one fifty seven. Yes,
that went to double overtime, but that was the same
(16:39):
kind of crazy game. And you know, so was last
night's score line and intensity inspired by the n season tournament.
I don't know that there's any way to prove it.
I just want this thing to get to the knockout point.
And you know my initial quarrel with it, and I
know this is not easy to do. What I'm asking
(17:00):
for is not easy. It cannot be just like soccer,
where in these the soccer tournaments that the ND season
Tournament is modeled after, it is not just single elimination,
but it has teams from other divisions. We don't have
that model in North American major team sports. It's not
easy for the NBA to just bring in two extra
(17:21):
teams from the EuroLeague or the G League or whatever.
It's just it's just not logistically easy to do. But
what I think people are gonna really love is when
this thing gets to the final four, especially when we
get to Vegas, there are four teams. There are real
knockout games eventually down the road. What I really hope,
(17:42):
because I'm sorry, these group games just don't do anything
for me. And the courts. It's not about the courts.
The courts. There's very mixed opinions about the courts. Some
people hate them, some people grudgingly like them. Whether you
hate them or like them, they get us talking. But
that's just cause medic nonsense. That's not that people. People.
(18:04):
People are not gonna watch even if they love the court.
They're not gonna watch a bunch of games because they're
not gonna go, oh, yes, this is Game three with
our awesome court. It's just that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
But it's just a differentiate from the regular season games,
that's all people.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Well, the reason they need that is because these four
group games that everybody plays are regular season games that
count twice. And that's the part that I just I
just don't like that, and I just hope that in
the future down the road, you know, is this something
they can actually carve out of the eighty two games?
Can they? Because they don't want to add to eighty two.
(18:43):
They certainly don't want to make the season longer than
it is. So you're not you can't add games to
eighty two. It's already too long. But can they take
out a week or two of the regular season? And again,
all thirty teams and all of us know it all,
and all of us, the old men like me, we
all go to Vegas for a week or two and
(19:04):
just play a thirty team knockout tournament. Put all the
teams in a hat, mix it up, mix up East
and West. That's another thing that drives me nuts about this.
East and West are kept apart until the championship game.
Why we do that in the playoffs? It would be
better if East and West were mixed up here too,
so we could just have some variety, something truly different
(19:24):
besides courts and uniform. So I just hope down the
road that's where we go, because I you know, I
know you'll be in Vegas. I'm trying to get myself
to Vegas. I do want to see what happens in
Vegas when it's neutral site, true knockout. And you know,
I do think players are more excited about the idea
(19:45):
of winning five hundred grand each then we probably realize.
I think I think guys do care about that, but
only the winning team gets that much.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
So with your suggestion in carving out another week or
two throughout the regular season to do this, right, would
those stats go into the regular season stats or it
would be separate because if I if you say no,
players would not go for that.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Hey, and you just raised a tremendous counterpoint because I say,
I would say it should be completely separate. Yeah, that
a tournament should be separate. But you're absolutely right. Even
if you could do this thing in a week, And
I don't think you could do it all in one week.
I think it would have to it would have to
stretch into a second week because otherwise you'd have you'd
(20:34):
have back to backs. So I don't think you want
to just do it in one single week. But yeah,
I mean it's four, five, six games or I guess
if you if I mean, if it's true single elimination,
you might only play one game. Yeah, I mean, I
(20:55):
think it needs to be separate. And again it's not
that's not easy to do either. You just raised a
great point, and then there's other logistical issues. What happens
to the team that lose, you know, six you know,
if you have a thirty team tournament, Let's say you
give buys to the top two seeds and then twenty
eight teams play in the first round, So fourteen teams
are only going to play one game. Then a bunch
(21:15):
of teams will only play two games. I mean, it
does create a whole bunch of issues. But my point is,
if we don't have teams from other leagues competing, we
have to emphasize the knockout portion of the show. That's
the part that will make it truly different and get
people excited if there's a knockout competition, if the Boston
(21:39):
Celtics get a terrible draw and have to play a
really good team early and then the Celtics are knocked
out and that opens it up for somebody else, Like
that is more of a true tournament than what this
is in year one.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
But overall, I think we have to wait until we
get to the knockout stage to see just because I
think that's where we're really going to see the intensity
picked up. Because again, you know that these the group
play and these different divisions, nobody really knows who's in
what group you know, nobody has that memorize yet exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I don't even know. Yeah, I mean it's really hard
to keep track of it.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, that's that's that's that's why I'm saying, like when
it gets to a lot of stages, like that's where
you're really going to be able to tell, Okay, this
is serious. This is And then I forgot Producer Ryan.
I don't want to stop taping, but Producer Ryan, if
you can find there was a player who suggested I
think was some star level player this past week suggested
(22:38):
that the n season tournament winner should get a free
birth to the playoffs, so by him, whoever this individual
is they said this past week, I think it was Halliburton.
I think it was I believe it was Halliburton. And
(22:58):
if if they're suggesting that Stein, that would lead me
to believe that most probably don't think five hundred thousand
is enough to be on board and fully, you know,
engulfed in this end season tournament. So if they're still
coming up with different suggestions, it was Halliburton, Thank you producer, Brian,
(23:19):
Thank you Stein. So I don't know, I don't think.
I don't like that, you know, because then you just
and the ain't like, why are you even playing the
rest of the regular seasons if you are already got
to automatically.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And that's that's probably too much. And you know, then
there was the you know, whoever wins should get draft
compensation for their team, and then you know, why would
the players care about getting their team draft picks so
they can replace someone who's already on the current roster.
So look, you just did it very well where I
throughout my scenario and right away you came up with
(23:51):
what happens to the stats and that is a big deal.
And so whatever format we propose, whatever changes are thrown
out there, there will always be counter arguments to it
and logistical problems that the NBA is going to have
to smooth over. And I think that's a big reason
why they chose this format for year one, because by
choosing the way they've done it, by making four group
(24:14):
games essentially be regular season games that count twice, the
only schedule gymnastics they have to do. Now there's you know,
the week in early December where they've got to come
up with games for the team. You know, teams that
don't advance to the quarterfinals have to add a couple
of games to their schedule because teams were only given
(24:35):
eighty games at the beginning of the season rather than
eighty two. But this NBA, the format the NBA has chosen,
it only adds one extra game to the schedule for
the two teams that make the championship game on December ninth.
So I think what really appealed to them was that
they could go through this whole experiment in year one
without causing a lot of disruption. What I'm proposing would
(24:58):
cause more option because even if you go to Vegas
for a week and a half. There will be teams
that lose home dates. They will not like that. They
don't want to give up. The teams that do well
at the gate especially, are not gonna want to forfeit
home games because now they're losing revenue. And there will
(25:18):
be scheduling nightmares that the NBA would have to confront
because with true single elimination, obviously only two teams make
the finals, and so all the teams in the tournament,
all thirty, are playing a different number of games, and
that causes its own share of problems. So I do
get all that, But again, to me, why did they
(25:40):
ask ll cool Jy to redo? Mama said, knock you out?
Because the knockout part that's the good stuff, you know.
That's like group games that aren't really group games, regular
season games disguised as group games. They just again, like
you said, it's too hard to follow. Who's an A B?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
I mean, yeah, that's and let me let me elaborate
just so people understand what I'm talking about. With players,
most players wouldn't go for not having their stouts their
stats accounted for. No player wants to play five games
and say that they're on a hot streak in that
five games earlier in the season. They don't want those
stats just wiped away. Don't count, you know, you know,
(26:27):
don't it matters. You know, it matters. You know, they
all you know, their their time and you know, so
I know, you know, I spoken to a few players
about that already, and that was that was one of
their concerns before the season tournament was even implemented. So
I know that would be something that they will probably
push back on. You know, playoffs that's a different story,
(26:50):
you know, playoffs of the playoffs stats, you know, their
stats for the playoffs. But that that is that is
something else that they would have an issue with. They
tried to just say the stats would not wouldn't go
into the regular season numbers.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Now, though, I'm going to pay a compliment to the
n season Tournament because I do think this is somewhat
of a factor. To me, there's been less MVP chatter
in November, which always strikes me as a little too
early to get too deep into it. But look, the
reason one of the main reasons that this inn season
(27:31):
tournament was conceived by the NBA. Obviously it's about money
and about creating content and a product that they can
offer up to potential partners in a new media rights
deal to maybe sell the tournament separately to a rights holder.
So I mean, there's all kinds of financial incentives for
(27:54):
potentially doing it, but also something that is long concerned
the NBA is trying to make the regular season more meaningful.
And one of the reasons we've talked about this before
on this spot, and this is one of my favorite
things to kind of remind everyone about, is the reason
the NBA never pushes back on heated NBA debate or
(28:18):
NBA debates that start really early in the season, probably
earlier than they should. It's because, again, winning the regular
season MVP Award probably the highest individual honor that there
is in the sport that gives the regular season meaning
and the league's hope was that the n season tournament
(28:38):
could add to that and become something else that gets
people excited in November and December when normally all the
focus is on the NFL and college football. But one
of the benefits this season, I think, and maybe it's
an unintended benefit, or maybe there's no correlation and I'm
just inventing a correlation but I feel like there's been
(29:00):
so much focus from the league on marketing the n
season tournament and working on n Season tournament awareness that
there's somehow been less MVP chatter than we normally get
this time of year. And then I kind of violated
my own rule to an extent by writing about the
MVP race on Tuesday and my substack. But the point
(29:22):
really wasn't to say who is or isn't leading the chase,
or you know, it's way too soon for that kind
of talk, but really just to kind of bring home
the point as something to discuss, something to monitor, something
to keep our eyes on, because again, it is amazing
that no American player has won the MVP, the regular
(29:46):
season MVP award in the NBA. No American has won
that since a former Houston Rocket I'm sure you remember,
named James Harden in twenty seventeen eighteen. Since then, it's
been Yannis twice, it's been Jokic twice. EMBIID last year,
Luka Doncic widely considered a future MVP, he doesn't have
(30:07):
one yet. Canada Shay Gilgess, Alexander he ended up on
the All NBA First Team last year, so you got
those five foreign players having accounted for the last five MVPs,
and Doncic and Sga as contenders to join that club
in the future. So there's not a lot of room
(30:29):
for new competition. But I wanted to just throw that
out there because it's been interesting at the start of
the season just to see the various guys who are
off the good starts. Jason Tatum is off to a
huge start in Boston, and this brings me back to Halliburton,
who is you know, if the Pacers can make a
run at fifty wins, I mean, Halliburton is gonna He's
(30:52):
gonna be in this discussion.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
And again, you know this is we're early in the season.
With that being said, let me look at some of
the players, American players who have a shot. I still
think you have to put Joker up there. You gotta
put in Bead up there, Johannis for sure, like those
are probably the three favorites, the three top favorites to
(31:16):
win the award. But what American has a legitimate shot?
Tatum possibly Boston got off to a pretty quick quick start.
I still think that's an uphill battle. You know, Kim Minnesota,
b is this sustainable, you know, will they remain a
top of the West, And if so, Anthony Edwards definitely
(31:37):
has to be considered.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yes, indeed I should have mentioned him, That's my bad.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, But aside from that stunt, I mean, ty Pacers,
I gotta see more. I gotta no question.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
But that's why it's too early to get into specifics,
like what's Haliburton's chances? But he's played so well and
look Maxie too, Tyrese Maxie's now is he going to
Is MAXI gonna be able to keep his production where
it's been in Philly? And is he ever gonna be
able to beat out Joel Embiid on his own team?
But you said it. If Minnesota continues to live at
the top of the West, the upper tier of the
(32:10):
Western Conference, Anthony Edwards is going to be in this discussion.
And if Indiana can make a run at fifty wins,
I do think Caliburton will at least get a mention
and then then it's you know, but these thirty somethings
are just amazing. Lebron turns thirty nine in December, Stephen
Curry turns thirty six in March. Kevin Durant just turned
(32:32):
thirty five in September. All three of them are playing
at an MVP level. Now, will their teams win enough
for them to get in the top five. That's something
to watch. But there, you know, it's it's just it's
I just threw it out there yesterday. Is just something
to monitor and to keep in your mind. It's an
interesting thing. It's a fun game to play. Who is
(32:56):
the next slash, first American who can and this dominance
of international stars and for many of our colleagues, fellow pundits,
Jason Tatum was a very popular preseason pick to be
the guy and win his first MVP. But yeah, I mean,
I think you said it. I mean, the conversation still
(33:18):
starts with Joker, Jannison Embiid and I think you know,
Luca not far off depending on how many games the
MAVs win and the Thunder have been spectacular early. So
I mean, that's certainly going to help SGA's case. And
there is a lot of international stardom at the top
of this race.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
And suppose another question too, Stein, So say we do
have an American born MVP coming up, will it be
a retread or will it be somebody new? So let
me rephrase that. Do you think the chances are higher
(33:57):
that the next American MVP is retreat or a new
MVP winner?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I think new. And the reason I say that is
because we also have to factor in the sixty five
game rule. And the reality is Lebron, what he's doing
right now is at his at you know, at almost
thirty nine has never been seen before. I mean, what
the stat came out today's shooting like sixty six percent
in fourth quarters. Steph was playing lights out until he
(34:29):
had the knee injury that knocked him out for a
few games. And Durant is playing second or third most
minutes in the league. They haven't even seen Bradley Beal
yet and Durant's been out of this world. So the
question the question for those three guys, it's twofold A.
Are their teams gonna win enough for them to get
up the ladder? Up the MVP ladder? And b will
(34:54):
will those three guys play sixty five games?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Because now, correct me if I'm wrong, sty the sixty
five game is required even for all NBA teams. Correct, yes,
they will if they if they're healthy, They're not a lot. Look,
Lebron KD. They're not gonna waste the season, not trying
to steal accumulate awards. That that's that's not gonna happen.
(35:20):
So if they are healthy enough, they're going for that.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Believe me, those guys it's championship or BUS. So you're
telling me they're gonna.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
It's still They're still added to their legacy. No, it
still matters. It still matters. Lebron is not if he
has a chance to add another All NBA to his resume,
he's adding it. Kevin Durant, same thing. They are not
wasting season. Yes, championship BUS, but no, they're adding to
their legacy right now. That is very important. So I
(35:49):
guarantee you whatever maintenance plan they have, intact resting plan
or whatever it is taken into consideration on how, you know,
how they can get that rest and still get the
sixty five games. Now, you can't account for injuries that
happen and things like that. But no, Stein, No, they're
still trying to add to their resume.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
See this is good you on multiple occasions in this
festive Thanksgiving pod, you took this conversation into directions that
I was not expecting. So kudos to you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
The holiday season. Stein, That's what happens, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
And it's funny because it's so funny because obviously we
can see each other as we're recording this, and our
audience cannot. But it's been funny in this You in
this episode, you are the calm. You are the calm
one trying to, you know, be the wise old head.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Stein.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Just calm down, let's see. You know you're trying to
You're trying to bring a restrained, relaxed tone to the conversation.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Well, I have about twenty five other family members arriving today,
so I'm trying to prepare myself.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
They're all, it's all today, they're getting today.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, and most of them get in today. I have already,
I got a household of fifteen right now in the house.
So it's amazing that you haven't heard any noise, you know,
in anything right now.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
So I guess my point is, I think you've enjoyed
taking the role of the old head in this one.
Letting me go off on my on my little n
season tournament tangents and well.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Listen, I mean it comes with age. That's what happens,
you know what I'm saying, Stein, so I wouldn't you know,
I wouldn't say this is the new me. You know,
I'll probably go back to my old self in the
next episode, but it is what it is right now. Stein,
I'm feeling good right now. You know. Sweet potato pie
is my favorite pie, my favorite dessert of all time.
You got to have your some, Stein, if you've never
(37:46):
had any sweeptail pie. Anyway, my mom is down there
and I smell it right now. I smell it coming
out the oven right now. So I'm in a good mood, Steyn,
So you are.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
And you so all this food is being prepared at
the Hotel Haynes as we speak.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
The desserts right now being made, Yes, and.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
You are not going to touch it until tomorrow. You're
not going to touch anything till tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Oh no, I'm stealing a pie. My mom makes about
seven sweep until pies. I'm still in one and I'm
hiding it in my room and so I'll be eating that. Yeah,
I'm eating that tonight. Yes, you see, I'm trying to
try to whisper.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Do you think anyone coming to your house listens to
our podcast?
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Uh? Yeah, they listened, but they listen. They'll they'll hear
it like weeks later at that time.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Cool, you know, missus Haynes won't hear this podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
You hear it weeks later, you hear weeks later. Like, girl,
I already said that. You know, I was just I'm like,
that was just in a moment. Don't worry about it, girl,
You know because I told her. I let her know, Hey,
occasionally you come up occasionally, our relationship occasionally, you know
the struggles we go through. Yeah, see she liked that one.
(38:58):
That was cool. She got that way. She said, as
long as you let them know that, you're the one
to take most of the losses. I'm like, yeah, I
told the truth. Yeah, you take all the laws. I
told the truth. That's sure.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
You're playing for a tie. Everyone, thanks so much for
joining us. I hope you have we Hope you have
a tremendous Thanksgiving. Hope you get some good family time again.
No NBA games on Thanksgiving, So hopefully if you have
some NBA cravings or you find yourself in the midst
(39:32):
of a hillacious holiday commute, bring us with you. Listen
to us when you're on the man being here in
La people. I mean, the talk about Thanksgiving traffic. It
starts on Tuesday. The just shocking images of cars stacked
(39:53):
on the freeway and nobody moving.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
I have to I have to go shout out to
Carlos Garcia. You know, I like to shout out people
who reach out and say they've listened to the pod.
Carlos Garcia reached out to me on I G I'm
showing you right here, Stein, and in it, he says,
could I posted a picture? I posted a story of
my ham that I purchased from the Honey Baked Ham
(40:16):
company that you seem to have no idea about. He says,
Mark didn't know nothing about that on the podcast, and
he's just lot laughing, dying, laughing. You gotta you gotta
check that. And Michael Wright, my colleague over there at
NBA dot com, he sent me a picture. You listened
to our pod, sent me a picture of his honey
Baked ham that he purchased, and he says, Stein, gotta
he gotta get on point. You gotta find out about
(40:37):
that now, Stein, you probably don't eat ham? Am I safe?
Is that? Is that?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (40:41):
It's not good?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I got it, I get it. I wanted to make
that clear.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
But but I've been, but as as uh as my
dear high school friend Dave Casera's remind me. I've been
to many holiday parties of his, back when we were younger,
when they had when they had honey baked ham. So
I've even been to events where it was served.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I just didn't understood understood, so I would to Hey,
I'm doing that for you, Starle, letting the listeners know
there's a reason you probably don't not that all.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
That, so you already you already posted this IG.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
I posted my honey baked ham to IG yesterday on
my story, so I want to give it.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
You know, I am hopeless. You know I am hopeless
when when the initials IG come into the conversation.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
I can't wait. I can't wait. Hey, And I wish
everybody out there again a non violent Thanksgiving holiday week
and weekend, because we know where family gets together, Hey,
it gets there's turbulence sometimes. So you know, I just
(41:49):
hope that you know all you do is is have peace,
love and good food and good companies.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
So that will have to get the report. We'll have
to get the report next time we do one of
these on how it went.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Oh Stan, I'm gonna tell you right now that ain't
going down over here. It's going to be Oh, I'll
let you know. I'll give you the report. I'll have
an update the post Thanksgiving episode on how everything went down.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
We need an exact count of how many guests there were.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Yep, how I helped my tongue, didn't say anything, wanted
to say something. How I looked at somebody crazy, but
I didn't take it to the next level. Those things happen.
It's family, you love them, It's family. It's all good,
It's all good.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
I'm ready, all right, everyone that is going to do
it for this Thanksgiving edition of This League Uncut. Chris
and I will be back very early next week with
our next episode. Of course, if you haven't already, please
remember to rate, review, and subscribe to the show. Apple Podcasts,
(42:56):
Spotify podcast, wherever, hashtag, wherever you get your pods. You
could do it. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. We are very thankful
for everyone who listens and joins us every episode. Talk to.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And That'll do it for us. See you next time.
This League uncutage an iHeartRadio production Chris Haines and Mark
Stein
Fox Sports Radio News
Host
Jonas Knox
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