The Book of Joe: Stealing in September

In this episode of 'The Book of Joe' Podcast, Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci, we begin September with an eye on the postseason races.  Tom points out another milestone that Shohei Ohtani is chasing this season.  Have the new rules helped teams with stealing bases?  Joe explains his approach and strategy on the bases and how that's changed.   Plus, we touch on the A's leaving Oakland and the future changes for the franchise.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey there, welcome back. You have found once again the
Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden. Joe,

(00:24):
welcome to September.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Right, September has finally come. That's going to be the
eventual quote of the day. Has thought about that earlier
this morning, something nice to talk about all the time,
and then you just started out.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
With, oh, a teaser. I can't wait for the quote
of the day.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
I'm ready for you. I'm ready for your brother.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hey, I got a question for you, speaking of September.
What percentage of teams in the wildcard era that we're
in playoff position on Labor Day wound up actually in
the postseason. What do you think the conversion rate is
holding a playoff spot on Labor Day to getting into
the postseason. It's going to be pretty high, right, it

(01:04):
is high, seventy eighty eight percent. I mean, we all
love comebacks, but the fact is it's usually pretty rare
in September to run a team down. My rule of thumb,
Joe has always been, if you're behind somebody else in
the playoff spot, don't let that deficit get more than
one game per week, that's right. So if you're out
five games starting September, no, you're not going to get

(01:27):
there two weeks, Togo. You better be no more than
two games out, is you know, Joe, it's hard to
make up ground this late in the year, just.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Like the race did. Right, How many did we make up?
What was that twenty eleven something like that. I don't
want to get into that. You probably already have that
queued up, but I think we were like nine and
a half back on September one to get to the
wild Card and eventually beat Boston on that last day
with the culminating in the best night of baseball, I
guess in modern times kind of absolutely. But I remember

(01:57):
that specifically because you just said I used to tell
the guys about that all the time when we got behind,
even in August.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
We have to make up one game a week, guys.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
That's all it is, is one game a week, And
I would that's what I would look at in the standings.
Of course, you get to September down by nine and
a half or whatever the hell it was, and then
it's more difficult to sell. But I remember that, and
I think that included a really tough double hitterer loss
in New York.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
Doing that stretch up.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
I'm correct, So anyway, Yeah, it normally doesn't happen that way,
but when it does, it's pretty special.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, well that's September. What I really want to talk
about today, Joe, is the stolen base. Okay, because like
everything else, we kind of take our cues from shohe Otani,
who's running wild these days. A lot of people are
locked into his chase for being the first fifty to
fifty player, fifty home runs, fifty stolen bases. He up
to forty six at this count. In terms of stolen bases.

(02:52):
It's fascinating. First of all, show he has not been
thrown out since July twenty Second, he's twenty three for
his last twenty three stealing bases. I mean, he does
so many things well and you've seen it up closed, Joe,
his intellect running the base is just another reason why
your jaw drops watching this guy play.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Complete player.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
That's set us from the beginning when I got my
eyes on him, when he was pitching and hitting, he
still wanted to run all the time. And the rules
are a little bit different obviously, they made it somewhat
easier to steal a bag right now, and he's definitely
going to take advantage of that. But when he was
doing both and I was the manager there, I didn't
tell him not to run, but you know, it was

(03:34):
more difficult because he just had to say some of
that energy doing both things. But now when it's just
hitting and just hitting as a DH, no doubt in
my mind, this was part of his probably goal setting
before the season began, to do something like this because
it had never been done before. He's always he's not
going to come out and say it. I don't believe,

(03:55):
but he's also I would also bet researches things that
have not been done before that are within his reach.
So not a surprise. The fabricated you know, stealing rule
right now definitely benefits him. Regarding throwovers, how many times
you can throw over, et cetera, that definitely benefits him
because he is a smart baseball player.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
All right, I want to get to your fabricated rule
as you call it in a minute to challenge you
on that. Okay, but it's interesting. I think you're right
about show Hey, I think he wants to do things
players have not done before, right, he wants to forge
his own path, and certainly fifty to fifty would be that.
I'm not sure if he knows this, Joe, but he
already has set a record with forty six stolen bases.

(04:36):
Remember show Hey is well, he's listed at six four
two ten. He I think he's probably bigger than that. Now,
six four to two ten, he's already has the most
stolen bases by a player. At least that's tall, at
least that heavy, six four to two ten. The old record,
if I'm calling it a record, obviously it's not. But

(04:58):
the old record was Alex Rios, remember him?

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Oh yeah, good players, one of.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
My buddies with the Blue Jays. Yeah, twenty thirteen he
had forty two stolen bases. Jose Canseco and his forty
forty season eighty eight had forty, and Matt Kemp had forty.
Those are the only guys who'd stole forty at that size.
And now you got show Hey with a month ago
already with forty six. That's just one more amazing reason
to admire this guy. And how about this the highest

(05:23):
stolen base percentage of all time? Because he rarely has
shown thrown out. Show Hey is forty six out of
fifty this year stealing bases. That's the fifth highest in
the history of baseball history. Ninety two percent of anybody
with forty six steals. I mean, this is crazy what
he's doing here for a guy who rarely gets thrown

(05:44):
out at his size and yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
That's more than two ten he said two ten. There's
definitely he's big. He's very big man, but he's very
strong man. I would whatever the height is, that's probably accurate,
but I'd say he's got to be over two hundred
ten pounds.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, I think he's in the two thirties, to be
honest with you.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Absolutely, So he's a tall, lean guy, but he's extremely strong.
All the other players you've mentioned, Rios Conseko camp saw
them all. Yeah, there were big people that really moved well.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
You know. With Shohey going back to pitching again extra.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Hopefully he might might mitigate that a little bit, but
he's still gonna want to go, especially the fact that
he's set this bar a little bit higher, or maybe
with him it's like, Okay, I've done this and I
don't have to really focus on this as much in
the future. And I'll get back into pitching and just
run one. I think it's absolutely the right thing to do,
but it is.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
It's just different. He is different.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Everything he does on the baseball field is like you said,
it's not really been done before. And that's what he
wants to do. He wants to do things that have
not been done before based on size, speed, power, arm strength.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Just he is the unicorn that gets often that gets used,
I think a little bit too often that phrase.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
But this guy truly is that.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
And when you watch him run and steal bases, Joe,
I don't know if you notice this. He's always sliding
feet first, and it's a beautiful slide. He slides in
that pop up position where his foot always holds the bag.
And I know a lot of guys have gone to
the head first slide because with the challenge rule, now,

(07:22):
if your foot comes off that bag of millimeter and
the infielder keeps the tag on you, we've seen guys
get called out. And so a lot of guys went
to the head first slide to grab the bag and
hold it. Well, just watch showhy slide. He slides the
right way. He slides into the bag and starts raising
out of it, and his foot is going to stay
on the bag of the entire time. Think about lou Brock,

(07:45):
he slides like lou Brock. Correct, You've got Mariy Will's
Davy lopes. These guys all slid feet first, and I
think it's a way. First of all, Choey obviously, as
you've said, Joe, he's coming back and pitching next year.
Not a good idea for him to be sliding, you know,
hands first with those fingers exposed. But he's going to
slide feet first, right foot out, sliding on the left leg, bent,

(08:09):
left hand behind him. Right hand is always off the ground,
never in danger. So you know, just one more reason.
You watch this guy play baseball, and he's so smart
and fundamentally sound.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Intimidating.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Also when you're in there and you're having to apply
a tag with the feet coming at you, a little
bit more intimidating with the hands, you know, the I
guess they've eliminated the rule where you could put the
knee in front, but that was a part of it too.
You would identify head first sliders and the guys that
were really good, the infielders.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
At putting the knee down.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
They could put the knee down and block a hand
from getting to the bag, which you don't want to
put a knee down with the spike coming at you,
so that that also is a difference. I've always thought
it was a more intimidating slide. Carl Crawford was the
other guy. Cee Cee always slid feet first. And I'm
telling you what. Cec one of the biggest strongest guys
I've been on the field with.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
And you could hear him run and it was fast.
You hear it.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
You could he just dug the ground out from behind him.
And when he went into a bag, it was feed first.
And if I, like I said, if I'm a middle endfielder,
I don't want any of that. So that's part of
it too that nobody talks about. It's the feed first
component of it. The other part that we were taught
younger is that you mentioned it you could pop up
more quickly.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
You don't want to get into.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
A pop up slide necessarily on a steal, because sometimes
they could actually slow you down right before you get
to the bag and give you the appearance of being out.
That was a problem back in the day prior to replay.
So you want to power slide, You want to power
slide into the bag, and you don't necessarily want to
just pop right up. You want to make sure that
foot gets in there first. But the point is when

(09:41):
you do slide like that and there is a bad throw,
the ability to pop up and get to the next
bag becomes easier. We used to actually in spring trainings
wet the ground down and give out old pants a
different to the players.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
You'd line up one of the.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Coaches with standard with the hose, put it down and
put a bag at the end of it, and you
had to pass sliding class before you can move on.
You couldn't start playing the games to you pass sliding cast.
Back in the day, they used to have pits with
like sawdust in it, and they guys used to really
practice intricate size of the hook slide to really try
to get away from a tag, etc.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
But you really were.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Always taught to refrain from the head first slide because,
like you said, injuring your hands in your wrists and
especially not into home plate, where guys slide in the
home plate now kind of there because they're aware that
they're the catcher can't really mess them up too bad.
But that's another thing. You would didn't want to ever
want to slide hand first head first into the plate
because the catch with garon could really hurt you. So

(10:36):
for years, the slide that was really predominantly top was
taught was the feed first, more intimidating slide that permitted
you to get through the bag hard and quickly, and
then also in the event of a bath throw get
right back up on your feet in advance.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, I'm with you. I still don't like the head
first slide into home. It is a little bit less risky.
I certainly don't like it into first base as well.
And listen, if you talk to an engineer or a
college professor. I know some people will say that the
head first slide can be faster than running through a
base at first base or sliding feed first. I get that,

(11:12):
but the problem for me, Joe is, watch most guys
sliding head first. They don't do it well. If you
watch their back legs. Usually the new or Thaiah areas
start to hit first and they slow themselves down the
way to slide head first. Watch Ricky Henderson, don't look
at his highlights it's essentially a dive, propelling the body
forward in a diving position. Most guys don't do that,

(11:35):
So I see a lot of bad, bad head first
slides that definitely are slower than either free first or
at first base running through the bag.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Pete Rose, the statue right Pete Rose.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
You've seen photographs of that man totally in the airborne
diving exactly how you described right there with Ricky. Those
kind of things were innate. I don't think those players
necessarily practice those things. They were just aggressive sorts and
they wanted to get there, and this is how they
derived it. It's the same thing like when you go
back in the first base when a pitcher throws over.

(12:07):
It's just the exact opposite. You don't want to get airborne.
You really want to get to the point where you
dive low into the bag and not get up, like
have your body go up to get down to the bag.
So there's different elements of this sliding hit first that
are incorporated. So go back to first, you really want
to get low and dive down low and not necessarily
get airborne. Whereas like the way you're describing to be
safe at second or third base, primarily if that's you're choosing.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Especially, I think.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
It's more prominent that slide on the like a double
or triple stolen bases. These guys are going to die,
but they're going to stay lower to the ground just
to get there sooner. But anyway, there's all these variety
of variations on this that different guys perfected on their own.
Jimmy Edmonds one of the best sliders I've ever been around, Jimmy,
and this was all Jimmy. I've always often talked about

(12:55):
Jimmy one of the most intuitive players I've ever had.
Did things just because he was a really good baseball player.
The baseball was part of his DNA. He did things
naturally and normally, and he would slide to avoid tags,
put the arm out, and then take it back.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
He did that way back in the day.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
His hook slides to avoid a tag outstanding. So there's
certain guys that have just it's kind of indigenous to them.
They just known what they're doing and they're really good
at it. Others have to be taught. But there was
always sliding class back in the day.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, I have not seen those. Basically, it's a baseball
version of slipping. Slide. I haven't seen those drills in
the spring trainings, probably the nineteen eighties. No one's doing
it anymore.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
They don't want guys to get hurt, exactly, and nobody
ever got hurt. Quite frankly, no, I don't remember guys
getting hurt doing that.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
No, of course not. But the best slider today just
in pure aesthetics, Trey Turner of the Phillies. Oh my goodness.
I mean it looks like he like they wetted it
down and he is on a slipping slide. That's it's
a beautiful thing. By the way, Joe Madden, one hundred
and seventy minor league games, how many stolen bases did
you have?

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Five?

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Two? Okay, two I caught stealing. How many did you have?

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Five?

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Two? So you're two out of four and you're mynor league.
It must have been the back end of a double steal, Joe,
it probably was.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
It's exactly right, no question, no question.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Hey, when we get back, we got to talk about
you're saying it's frivolous or what was the word fabricated
the stolen base with some of the rules that we
have to encourage. Uh, we need to talk about that
because I'm happy the stolen base is back, and I
actually think you might be surprised that it's not fabricated.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
Straighten me out, Straighten me out.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
We'll talk about that right after this. Okay, So, Joe,
the stolen base, you know, is if you're runn around
first base that picture, he gets only two free disengagements
basically two pickoffs. On the third one. If he doesn't

(15:08):
get you, it's a back and you move up. So
you understand that you have bigger bases, so you do
have some. And this was designed now we have it
for a couple of years to encourage the stolen base
in the game, and it has definitely encouraged that. Last year,
the first year these rules, stolen bases went up forty
three percent, and now you have guys stealing bases at

(15:31):
a rate of this year, it's actually down slightly from
last year. Last year it was eighty percent. This year
it's just about its seventy nine percent. In twenty twenty two,
by the way, it was seventy five percent. So it's
gone up, but I wouldn't say it's gone up. But
here's the point I wanted to make, Joe, We're still
not at the level of stealing bases as we were
in nineteen ninety two. There were more stolen bases per

(15:54):
game in nineteen ninety two than there are in twenty
twenty four. So even with these rules, it's not like
we reinvented this game and made it a track meet.
That is not happening.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Well, I'll tell you what's happening.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Is a big part of the lessening of the attempts
to begin with is just analytically driven, because analysts did
not want you going I mean, if you got guys
thrown out, If guys got thrown out on the basis
and attempted steals, I swear to you, almost one hundred
percent of the time, somebody would come down to the
clubhouse and ask you afterwards why it was so and
so running right there, that was that's a big part

(16:28):
of the analytical culture, not making outs on the basis.
So that's why it really kind of went away for
a long period of time.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
And you're right, Joe, and that's why baseball needed to
change the rules because they saw that the analytics people
were running the game and they were saying, if you
can't steal eighty percent of the time, don't even bother running,
that's correct, and so they said, we need to find
a way to boost the success rate of stalling bases
to encourage the volume of stolen bases. So it really

(16:56):
was in response to how analytics said, you better not
make it out on the basis.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Right, And then what part of it is as you
got lazy even attempting guys, it wasn't even being taught,
it wasn't being nurtured. None of that was happening because
you're just not permitted to. I don't want this guy
doing that. We don't want to make out.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
And besides that job, I am losing that type of
player in the game because everybody wanted big slickers who
struck out and swung from their heels every time, and
we lost that guy who did have wheels again.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, right, there's it's a pretty vicious cycle. So it
did begin with the analytical component of the game. And
while that's occurring, the guys that may have been able
to do that, we're not nurturing the ability to do that.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
It wasn't even taught in the mind.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
We used to teach that in the minor leagues and
used to want to get your former base dealers or
somebody that had within your organization major league kind of
a guy or guys you would bring in just to
teach or talk about that specifically gone not even nurtured
or talked about. On top of that, I mean, what's
going I'm just bumping around a little bit here with
all of that. I'm surprised that there's not more pitchouts,

(17:57):
like legitimate pitchouts, and just it's not even about being
right all the time. It's about making the other team
think about, well, they might pitch out, and if they're
going to pitch out, then we're gonna mitigate some of this. Basically,
I've been surprised about that. I saw it the other day.
Somebody's just running wild over somebody and eventually they did
pitch out and.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
They didn't run on that particular pitch.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
But that's part of that. This that's that's really big.
And the other part is just a pure quick step.
I mean, if a pitcher's slow, regardless of the set
of the rules, and if he has a bad move,
regardless of the rules, you still could run on them.
If you're really being taught to do this and what
to pick up on and how to do this, and
how to get that moving jump or lead lead jump
that like Ricky used to walk walk, walk and go

(18:40):
but still be able to get back lext point bock moves.
I watched the other day somebody threw over the first base.
Oh my god, umpires don't even know what a bock
move is. So there's there's all these different things going on,
and again this is just like free forming this thing.
I analytics driven. That's why nobody ran like you're saying,
analytics driven. So now we have to change the rules. Okay,

(19:03):
I still.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Don't want that.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
I'm an organic guy, but nobody's been taught to do
this stuff. This is all being done right now. That's
shooting fish in a barrel. So if I'm managing right now,
I'm definitely if I'm playing your team in a four
game series, I'm going to pitch out in that first
game at some point. I want you to know that
we're willing to pitch out Texas League five and six
game series. Back in the day, and we had some

(19:25):
guys that could really go. I had dev Devon White
and Mark McLamore on my own particular team, and there's
Shane Mack and all these other guys that could fly
on these other teams, and you had to pitch out.
You had to let them know that you might. So
there's ways to counteract this that. I'm just surprised that
it hasn't really taken form yet, and that's what I

(19:47):
give it an opportunity. I would like to see more
of that too, a little more of a quick step.
Understand that. I know you can only hold the ball
to a certain extent because of the rules of disengaging
the rubber. There's all these things like you're saying that
are built in two run, but the one weapon that
has not been utilized put the seat of doubt in
the minds. I don't think is the pitch out. I
don't see it that.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Often agreed on the pitch out. But I do think
in terms of pitchers being quicker to the plate, they've adjusted.
I mean, I think they're much quicker. I think the
attention paid to the running game, at least defending the game.
To me, it's better now than it was in the
early nineties in the eighties, I mean, you didn't see
that many slidesteps back then. You see it a lot now.

(20:28):
I think catchers now we have a re emphasis on
catcher arm strength and pop time. I think that has improved.
So even though these rules do encourage stolen bases, again,
these numbers are not going through the charts. So if
somebody wants to sit there and they're look at Otani
and say, well, fifty to fifty, you know that's only
because they changed rules. That's boloney. I do think the

(20:51):
rules make it again easier, or at least they encourage
more stolen bases, But you look at it's not easier
that it was in the early nineteen nineties. It's not
like we're playing a different game here, different from three
years ago. Absolutely, but this is not I would not
denigrate Otani's achievement anybody's stolen base totals in the game

(21:13):
today based on the fact that we have new rules.
This is the game that we have and again that
numbers are not ridiculous to the point where you do
have to carve it out as sort of an anomaly.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Let me ask you this, I mean, because you might
know this and I don't know this. How many times
do pitchers actually throw over after their their limit to
first base?

Speaker 3 (21:31):
That has that happened?

Speaker 1 (21:32):
It has happened, And when it happens, Joe. Is when
you've got a situation with a runner, say like Elie
de la Cruz, right, and the odds of getting him
are not good, and you have to say a slow
pitcher on the mount, slow to the plate. I mean,
you might as well throw over there the third time
to see if you can get him, because that base
has already taken you know, over a ninety percent success rate.

(21:55):
So when the number is that high, he's going to run.
He's going to be successful ninety five plus percent of
the time. You take a chance and surprising guy. So
does it happen often? No, not at all. But with
the right sort of pure bass stealer and the right
pitcher on the mound. There are teams, and the Baltimore
Orioles are one of these teams that will tell their
guys go ahead and make that third pickoff, try and

(22:17):
see if you can get them there.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Throwover versus the pitch out. I mean, that's a that's
a see for me. That's a great time to put
it in their heads. You just can't do this. We're
not going to permit you to just do this. We're
not just going to let you run after the two
throwovers without really taking some severe So okay, so you
throw over third time, he's safe, he gets back whatever,

(22:39):
he goes to second base, or if you take the
pitch out, of course it's a ball. And that's again
that's always frowned upon that that if you throw a ball,
analytically speaking, that's not a good thing to do. But
then again, it's almost like back in the day, Luke
Panelo would pitch out on two one counts, Buck Rodgers
would pitch out on two one Gen would pitch out
on two one count because their answer was, if your

(23:00):
big league pitcher should be able to throw a strike
on a two one count, how many times the guys
go bad counts and eventually come back and get back
in the count and and and get to hit her out.
So these these are the kind of things you have
to get by. It's it's like it's picking a scab.
You got to do it the first time and just
have it work one or two times, and all of
a sudden, word gets out. They're not they're not afraid
to do these kinds of things. So again, I I'd

(23:22):
be curious or interested to see as opposed to the
third throw over, go ahead and pitch out once you've
utilized all your allotted throwovers or your a looted step off.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
So with whatever the allotted this is.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
That definitely it definitely mitigates it a bit. There's it's
easier for some of these guys to steal for a
lot of these guys to.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Steal base right other than it had been.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
But from my perspective, go ahead and pitch out, and
let's just see if that puts a damper on their
on their plants. Because it does, I'm telling you it does.
I know it would for me in a dugout. If
I'm on the other side, I know you're getta you
get a loose cannon manager on the other side.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
It's not afraid to do things. It makes you think
a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, here's another thing, Joe, and we get to the postseason,
if not now, but definitely in the postseason. Why every
postseason team doesn't have a pure burner on the bench.
That is beyond me and a twenty six man roster
in a game with you know, let's face it, there
are encouragement rules for the stolen base and the success

(24:20):
rate is just about eighty percent. Have a burner on
your roster man. Postseason games are they're competed ninety feet
at a time. The difference is marginal having that guy,
and it's interesting. You know, the Yankees recently did not
add Jason Domingez to their expanded roster for September, but
they did pick up Duke Ellis from Seattle, who is

(24:42):
he's a burner. You know, he's stolen fifty plus bases
in the minor leagues. The Yankees don't run. They have
a lot of guys you want to run for late
in the game, if it's a tie game or a
one run game, get a guy out there and get
you a base and get into scoring position. So why
every team doesn't have one of those players, at least
one of those players on the bench is beyond me,

(25:03):
especially in the postseason.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
We did it with the Rays, even back when it
was less popular than the rules were different, when we
had BJ and CC Jason Bartlett. We had some guys
that can go and we let them go. And you
have to understand there's just some there's a dynamic working there. Yeah,
they're going to get thrown out once in a while,
but whenever you could get a picture to split his concentration,
or a catcher to split hist concentration, or a bench

(25:28):
bench coach manager coaches split their concentration. To me, that
was always advantage us with the Angels. We did well
against the Yankees back in the day because we weren't
afraid to do things. Roger Clements and now that whole group.
We were pretty successful I think, which was a little
bit over five hundred against that dynasty. We were good

(25:49):
because we put pressure on you to do different things
on the basis we made you think. We didn't just
let you go out there and pretty much just prepare,
put your defense in the right spot. Try to picture
this guy because they're never going to do anything, which
was the money ball oakland A's so all this stuff
is part of the landscape.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yes, Terren score outstanding.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
He would this is one of the fastest guys I've had,
and he was so good, Like you were talking about
never coming off the bag. God, he'd get to the bank,
looked like he slid late, but always was like velcro.
He never came off the bag. Quittin Berry and we
got this kid from Mexico one year because we couldn't
find anybody with the rays and Andrew and the boys

(26:30):
dug down into Mexico and this kid stole some bases.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
For us in the players. I can't remember his name
right now.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
But I agree with that roster. You want that, especially
right now. You want to get it because you don't
want to well. Of course, in the playoffs the rules
are different. They're real baseball and the rules, and it's
not the guy's second base. But you have again chance
to win a game late, and you do have a
slug out there, and you got the right people coming
up afterwards.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Why not take a chance.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
You're facing relief pictures right now that it's hard to
string things together against get the second base where that
blue pit wins it for you. I'm all about it,
and with the Rays, we were all about it. It's
big for me for us to lead the league in
slen bases. I love that because we had power, we
had speed, we caught the ball on defense, we had
some really good pitching. Kind of a nice equation for winning.

(27:16):
But we encouraged it, and nobody lost their minds when
somebody got thrown out in a tough situation.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Baseball is the greatest game. It's the greatest game because
it's more than just the action. Every game, every sport
has action, and that's why we love sports. But baseball,
besides the action is great because the anticipation of action
is almost as important and as thrilling as the action itself.

(27:43):
And the return of the stolen base turned what was
an a nerd game, a static game, into a dynamic
game where now you're thinking, hey, he might run here.
I mean first and third, two outs, two strikes in
the batter is an obvious run situation. Now in the game,
everybody's running. Guys at first base are looking for patterns
on the pitch. Sure if he throws over once, does

(28:05):
he double up on his throes? These are all being
scouted now. This is the anticipation of action is back
in the game. And if you go back to lou Brock,
we talked about him earlier in nineteen seventy four and
as his way to one hundred and eighteen stolen bases,
this is what he said. The most important thing about
base stealing is not the stealing of the base, but

(28:28):
disturbing the pitcher's concentration. If I can do that, then
the hitter will get a better pitch to swing at,
and I will get a better chance to steal. I mean,
he nailed it. This is the guy who stole one
hundred and eighteen bases. But the idea that every time
he gets on base, your attention is divided and there's
the threat of the stolen base man that is worth

(28:48):
a lot. As you said, going back to those Oakland
moneyball teams, the third base coach wasn't even giving signs.
There was never a hit and run. If you were
a defender, you never had to worry about vacating a
spot or keeping an eye on a runner. It made
it too easy, and frankly, it made it boring because
there was no anticipation of action. I think the game
is so much better than it was three years ago

(29:08):
with the anticipation of more action.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
I'm in. I'm in.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
I mean even a hit and run being put on occasion.
You think, facing a sinker ball pitcher, you got a
guy that has a tendency hit the ball on the ground,
it's going to be a close game based on your
pitcher and their pitcher.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
But nobody wants to do that.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Nobody knows how to do that anymore, because again, if
it's swung and mister the guy gets thrown out all
of a sudden, you're a bad guy. You're a bad manager,
you're a bad baseball player. That game that's gone by
the wayside. When it works, even to get the runner
to second base with one out is also a plus
that you're saying right now. In today's game, you want
your more apt to try to steal that bag. But

(29:49):
for me action For me, the action would occur in
the bottom part of the batting order. I didn't want
to do all that stuff with the top part of
the batting order. Let those guys hit, But you get
the seven, eight, nine, where you get guys at a little
bit less than I wanted to try to manufacture things
with them. Yes, I wanted them to run. Yes, I
wanted to hit and run. Yes, maybe a bunt for hit,
maybe even sacrifice spunt. If these guys aren't as proficient,

(30:09):
why not why the whole batting order should is not
gonna always it should not. It's not gonna work the same.
You're not gonna have the same kind of output from
the one through nine you're gonna have. You know, your
banger's up top in the middle, there's your RBI. Dudes,
Sometimes when he gets to the bottom n have some fun,
put some pressure, make them think safety squeeze. I brought
that back because I saw the Yankees do it and

(30:30):
Zim taught me. And God did that put a lot
of pressure on other teams. And what happens in TC.
To Brian Butterfield when he was the defensive guy with
the Blue Jays, he said, when we played your teams.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
Because he eventually became my third base.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Coach, it took us so much longer to prep. And
just like you're saying what Brock was talking about, give
them something to think about, plant the seed of doubt.
The less you attempt to do the less, the less
problems you give the other team in advance of playing them,
the easier just to prep for you. And then we
could just focus on the things that were really good
at Again, when I play against the team like we

(31:04):
had been, I would reduce it and I tell them
not to worry about that. Let them do that. We'll
pitch out on occasion. We'll give them, we'll give them
something to think about. But I don't want to changing
what we do well because the other team does these
other things well. But as a manager, I wanted everybody
to change what they were doing because of things that
we did well.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
I hope the future of baseball is the Milwaukee Brewers.
Watch the Milwaukee Brewers play baseball, folks. First of all,
they're the fastest team in baseball. The team speed measurably
is the fastest in baseball. Top three in stolen bases.
They have one hundred and seventy six stolen bases in
their first one hundred and thirty seven games. They have

(31:42):
more hits with runners on base than any team in baseball.
They're top four and two strike hitting. They have a
top two bullpen. They throw more fastballs on the mound
than any team in baseball. You just watch this team play, man,
and they are coming after you.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Love that. You know.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
They put other teams on their heels. They can run
you off the field. Their defense is number three in
defensive efficiency. That's turning battered balls into outs. They run
down everything. This is what you're talking about, Joe, and
giving the other team a handful of things to guard
against and defend. When you can put the ball in play,
when you are not afraid to make outs on the bases,

(32:23):
and they will make them outs on the bases. But man,
they put tremendous pressure on you. So I hope that
the Milwaukee Brewers are the future of baseball.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Now.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Listen, I understand is payroll dependent, right. Power is expensive.
If you look at the top home run team's home
run hitting teams in baseball, You've got the Dodgers, You've
got the Braids, you get the Yankees. Those teams up.
Their power is expensive. If you don't have the money
to buy power, you need to find other ways to win.
It's exactly what the Milwaukee Brewers are doing. They're seventeenth

(32:53):
in home run in home runs, they're bottom of the pack,
bottom ten and slugging percentage, but they're fourth in the
major leagues and runs per game because they put the
ball in play and they run the bases, played the
game like a college team. I hope that's more of
the future of baseball.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
The Milwaukee Rays. I've thought that all along, and Murph
has got that kind of a background. He's got the
collegiate background. That's the kind of game he would play
at Notre Dame or whatever. That's what you're saying. You're
seeing an aggressive, very grassroots method of playing baseball. I
thought they resemble the Rays as much as the Rays
and Matt Arnold being in the front office. Matty was

(33:29):
around that stuff for a long time with us playing
when he was in the front office down there, which
I've also described, is what I've always said.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
I want it all. I want it all.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
I want speed, I want defense, I want pitching, and
I want power. Why can't you have it all? Why
can't you nurture a group that does all those different things?
To me, I think you can. I think any group
in baseball can do that if they really put their
mind and effort to it. It goes back down to
even just scouting and drafting. I should tell theo Epstein,

(33:59):
I said, okay, how many rounds? At that time there
was forty rounds. They said, okay, why not rounds thirty
to forty. You just take absolute athletes like the Kansas
City Royals Academy concept with that back in the day
where they took athletes to try to make them.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
Into baseball players. Just take a bunch of.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Speed dudes thirty to forty, and if you hit on
one a year over four or five years, you've got
four or five dudes that can really impact the baseball game.
With all these different kind of crazy tools. So yes,
I love the way Milwaukee's doing it, the Milwaukee Rays.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
I want it all.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
I don't want to just pigeonhole to one thing or
the other.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, the last team and hopefully stolen base now Joe
is valued in the game as part of winning baseball
and not just by necessity. Oh, we don't have power,
so we have to run, but understanding that that's the
way to win baseball games with. As you said, you
want it all, you want a blend of some power.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
But the last team that won the World Series that
stole more than one base per game, it's been thirty
one years. You got to go back to the ninety
three Blue Jays to find a team that ran that much.
Think about the Big Red Machine in the nineteen seventies.
The nineteen seventy six of Reds stole two hundred and
ten bases. I mean, no one, no World champion has

(35:13):
stolen that many bases since then. And we think about
the Big Red Machine as a power laden team, and
they were, but they ran as well. So this year,
for instance, you've got the Brewers have more than one
stolen base per game, but let's drop the number down
to one hundred stolen bases. The last team that stole
even one hundred bases and won the World Series was

(35:34):
the Nationals in nineteen. This year, there's only five contenders
who are not on pace or already there at one
hundred bags. The Braves, the Yankees, the Twins, the Astros,
and the Orioles, power laden teams that don't have a
lot of teams speed. Other than that, most of your
contenders are stealing bases these days, and I think it's
a much better game for it. And I hope when

(35:56):
we get to the postseason these teams decide it's not
you know, we shouldn't risk it now because the postseason
games mean Moore, no player game.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
That's right, play your game, don't put in your back pocket.
All those things you're talking about. I love to see
that trend. And like I'm saying, you could nurture all this,
Every organization can nurture all these different components if they
choose to do so. I know power plays, I know
power wins home and games, and I want that, That's
what I'm saying I want at all. But there's days
that doesn't work. Power does not show up, and you

(36:26):
have to be able to do different things in order
to win games. A guy hits thirty home runs on
an annual basis, he's considered power hitter. Very nice, What
did you do with the other five hundred and sixty
played appearances?

Speaker 3 (36:36):
That's what I want to know.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
I mean, that's ever even spoken about. Isn't there Isn't
there some positive utility about that too?

Speaker 3 (36:43):
I don't get that.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
I don't understand why that's not nurture that you talked
about the least number of strikeouts having a two strike approach.
I love that move the baseball put pressure on the defense.
If you constantly pressure the defense and give them something
to think about, eventually you're gonna win more of these
close games because you're facing good pitching. Man, And when
you get to the playoffs, you're facing nothing but good pitching.

(37:04):
And some nights you have to be a little bit
creative to win those games. You can't always rely on
the big ball. So I don't even know how these
stats breakdown, or they're they're they're they're eventually derived because
of they win because of this, or they do win
because of that. But I just want I know that
there's nights I want to be able to put pressure
on the other team on the basis because we're not

(37:25):
gonna hit a hole money against these dudes. And some
nights the pitcher, we're just going to beat the crap
out of him because he's not good enough. But we're
just going to power the baseball. And then all of
a sudden, is that skew the statistical numbers because you
get so many on one day and none on the
next two weeks. I don't know, but all I know
is I want it all I want, and I know
it could be nurtured. I've been there, done that, and

(37:45):
I'd like it's on the right path. I agree with
you right there. For me, i'd have preferred it being
done without having to change the rules. But if that's
the way it has to be, so be it.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
I'm going to take a page out of the Joe
Madden playbook and give you one of my favorite quotes.
That's from Winston Churchill. He reminded me of this, Joe,
I am easily satisfied with the very best.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
That's it that does. That satiates all your difficulties and problems.
It puts you in the right frame of mind. And
I'll have a drink with Witsten to that.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
At some point, Hey, listen, we started talking about September.
This is actually the last month they'll be playing baseball
in the city of Oakland. The Oakland A's are facing
their last month in that city. Times change, and we
will talk about that. Right after this, Joe, I mentioned

(38:38):
the Oakland A's facing their last month in Oakland. They'll
be playing in Sacramento next year, outdoors in the heat
of the summer on an artificial turf field. Yeah, good
luck with that. But you know, hopefully they will work
out a move to Las Vegas. It's a shame. Obviously,
Oakland's got a great baseball history. I grew up an
Oakland A's fan. I love the uniforms Bert camp and

(39:01):
Eris is one of my favorite players. But as I mentioned, Joe,
you know, things change. You know, the world is not static,
Our lives are not static. We move on, things evolve.
And a couple of news items caught my attention this
week in that regard besides Oakland, Joe, and one of
them involves Volkswagen. You think about Volkswagen is as German

(39:21):
as anything. Right, They are now talking about for the
first time closing a plant in Germany and maybe more
than one. You know, they're on hard times. They've been
the worst performer over the last five years of any
European car maker. They were late getting into the EV game,
and they're getting crushed in China, which they used to

(39:42):
own in the EV game. They've got a lot of
problems and this is a country where it's not easy
to lay people off. In fact, Volkswagen had a promise
through I think twenty twenty nine that they would not
lay people off. Now they're almost ready to go back
on that because times are so tough. Volkswagen without a
plant in Germany. Yeah, that's even more shocking that say,

(40:05):
the a's not playing in Oakland, and the other involves
US Steel. I mean, what's more American than US Steel
founded in nineteen oh one by JP Morgan. They're up
for sale. In case you got fifteen bills sitting around,
Joe Knipon Steele from Japan does have fifteen billion around
and they want to buy US Steel. And politicians in

(40:28):
this country are saying, well, wait a second, and we
don't know if we want to sell this American icon
to a Japanese based company. Now China again makes more
than half the world steel. US Steel is not what
it was by any means, but they need help. They
need somebody to come in and buy them out. I mean,
this is a company you talk about, Iconic Joe. They
built the Unisphere in Flushing Meadows for the sixty four

(40:51):
Worlds Fear in New York. That's the world's biggest globe.
The Picasso Sculpture in Chicago was built by US Steel
in Gary, Indiana and shipped over there to Chicago. I mean,
that is American and people are having a hard time
dealing with the idea that it might be owned by
Japanese company.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
And the famous words of Julie Franzosa, former social studies
teacher at Hazelton High School, things are better when they
were worse. You're describing progress as people see it, or change.
That's why I always argue just distributing a positive connotation
to the word change, to me, is not always accurate
or progressive.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
It's not always accurate. It's not accurate.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
It's a word that things are changing for different reasons,
or they're progressing down a different road. It doesn't mean
they're progressing in a way that's going to be beneficial
to a large group of people, and it's not necessarily
going to make things better. You can make things better
for a certain group, but not necessarily for the group
that you really want to take care of. I was

(41:49):
down in Bethlehem recently, had to go down there to
do some things. But by Allentown and Bethlehem, Steele is
just a big skeleton. It almost looks like Armageddon. It
looks like they might have filmed a Schwarzenegger movie there.
It's got that look to it. It's just rusty, old,
huge facility that doesn't operate or exist anymore. I mean,

(42:13):
for me, throwing jobs just everywhere and anywhere and permitting
just anybody to come in. That does bother me. Quite frankly,
it does. I don't understand that, and I'm not going
to be convinced or sway that it is the right
way to do business or do things for the sake
of what we're doing here in the United States and
have been for years, you know, we could go back
to the point where our fathers did fight. We've got

(42:33):
a pretty good thing going on here. We still do.
We've got to be careful that we just don't give
up everything that we've worked for for the sake of
progress and change, which to me is especially with the
social media method that is in place today, it's so
easy to attempt to sway people to believe what certain
groups think. The elitist group might think something, and all

(42:55):
of a sudden, you're pushing your agenda on everybody else
under the preceptor concept that it's going to be better
than not necessarily true.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
So always be careful with these.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
I read a lot. I don't know everything by any means,
And when it comes to big business exchanges like this,
of course I don't know everything about it. But I
do drive around Hazelton and I see what my city's like,
and I have to easily say things were better when
they were worse when things weren't as technologically advanced. I
like technology for medicine, absolutely I do. I love technology again,

(43:29):
maybe for self defense, absolutely I do. There's a lot
of reasons why you like technology. But then again to
just change things around just for the sake of change.
And we're social media, like you have bullying and kids
committing suicide, all these different things that are the product
of advancement. It's very concerning. We've got to wrap our
minds around and understand, and somebody's got to lead. Somebody's

(43:52):
got to lead us to the right answers with all this,
And these are my concerns.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
So I do agree with Julie.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Things are better when they were worse, and so I
am concerned about things like this where US steel is
going to be bought by a Japanese I just don't
quite understand that.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Joe. You strike me as a Steelers fan. Are you
a Steelers fan? Pittsburgh Steelers, I am not. I.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
I grew up a football Cardinal fan.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Actually, when they were in Saint Louis, I loved everything
Saint Louis Cardinal football, Cardinal baseball.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
As Saint Louis Hawks, and it was blues.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
I even liked the Sant Louis Billikens because my dad
bought me an age Cardinal had in nineteen sixty three
Yankee Stadium.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
Well, I should have phrased it better. Maybe you're a
fan of the Steelers' logo, the helmets.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
I love it absolutely, okaystanding.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
There's a great story behind. Obviously, the steel industry came
out with this steel logo it has. By the way,
they're called hypocycloids. They look like asteroids as yeah, or
sort of diamonds. Right, they're three different colors, and they
chose the color as because those were the three materials
I used to produce steel. Yellow for coal, orange for ore,

(44:57):
and blue for steel scrap. Well, that's how they make steel.
So in nineteen sixty two, the Steeler were wearing gold
helmets and there was a steel company that said, you
guys should use the Steel logo on your helmets. Of course,
Art Rooney, longtime owner of the Steelers, said yeah, that's

(45:18):
a pretty good idea. And the equipment manager said to
Art Rooney, you know what, let's just try it out
for a year. We'll just put it on one side
of the helmet. So they tried it out for a year.
Guess what, it was a huge hit. And then they
went to the black helmets right after that and it's
been the same ever since, one side of the helmet.
By the way, Steeler fans, you're probably not gonna like this,

(45:41):
but the team that suggested to the Steelers that they
used the steel logo on their helmets, the company that
suggested it, they're from Cleveland. Republic Steel of Cleveland was
the one who went to the Pittsburgh Steelers and say, hey,
why don't you guys use this logo?

Speaker 2 (45:56):
I love it, I mean, and to do it on
one side of the helmet that was like pure genius,
wasn't it.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
I mean gene right exactly.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
So I've always been a big fan of all of that,
their organization, how they do things up to this point.
The fact that they've only had what three coaches over
the last how many every years? Coach Tomlin right now,
I know, I know him. I've talked with him and
some of his staff. Afraid of Roberts, one of his
coaches is a good friend of mine. It's it's so
stuck reaped and heaping and tradition, Steeler fans, Stealer fans,

(46:25):
Stillers and in the burg. All the things that they
got going on there is fabulous. And I've never been
a fan. I was really admired their their decade of
just excellence when they went it all all the time.
But their uniforms are really outstanding and well conceived.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
So yeah, US Steel may be owned by Knippon Steel,
Volkswagen may not have a plant in Germany, and the
A's right, we know will not be playing in Oakland. Joe,
can you give us one last thing memory you have
of baseball in the Oakland Coliseum.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah, first of all, there was a time when we
first well before what do you call it Mount Davis
was built. Yes, it was kind of okay, you know,
it was like it was the coliseum was a big
round structure. They had some kind of vine growing on
the wall up there, some kind of what do you
call groundcover that was growing up and down the side
of that slope there. And I'll tell you what, you

(47:22):
had to hit everything possibly hit to get it out
of there.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
At night.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
It was damp or cold. It was never rarely ever worn.
But that's it. I mean when they built that, when
they built Mount Davis, it totally it totally ruined that place.
I mean it took whatever charm could be derived from
this circular building. That was a definite home court advantage
for them and definitely interesting. It was definitely interesting. That

(47:47):
depth perception there is completely different. There's so much room
behind first and third base, foul balls are being caught.
To really be a batting champion and play in Oakland
all your home games is not easy. Between the weather
at night and then the immense enormous amount of ball space.
It's close behind the plate, but everything else is large.
And the thing that really stands out the Angels.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
In nineteen ninety.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Five, we had this huge lead and we're losing it,
and Marcel called the meeting, and without giving specifics to
the meeting, we were in this small it's a horrible clubhouse.
It's always been horrible. It's dirty, dirty clubhouse, horrible clubhouse.
Always concerned about things being pot don't leave anything lying around.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
Because it might be picked up for the wrong hands.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
But we had this meeting in this coaches room is
really small, dank, dark coaches room, trying to figure out
a way to get out of our malaise and eventually
get back on track and win it, which we lost
one game playoff with the Mariners that year, after having
a twelve or thirteen game lead. But the coaching staff
in that room, every time I walked into that room

(48:55):
after that, it was really a difficult memory for me.
And every time I walked in and I felt that
I felt that pressure, felt that he'd I felt the
enormous weight on the Angel's shoulders at that point. And
I love Marcel Lashman. He gave me my opportunity to
get to the big league. So the ballpark itself, the
depth perception Mount Davis would a waste. But the big

(49:17):
thing for me was that moment when we were losing
a lead, having this coaches meeting in that room and
how heavy that felt. Taught me to really avoid those
kind of heavy moments as a manager from my coaching
staff because it really really could weigh on you to
the point where I didn't sit anything good coming to
that and my evaluation, how to get rid of this.

(49:40):
Let's have a big party. Let's get everybody out, Let's
get all the players out, all the coaches out at
one time. Let's go someplace from going to Texas and
have a blast that Night's let's blow it out that way,
because there was already too much pressure. And I'm like
nineteen ninety five, it's my first full year in the
big leagues, and nobody wanted to listen to me. But
that's my strongest memory of that ballpark that really stuck

(50:01):
with me and still does.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
We will re is it this topic Oakland leaving or
the A's leaving Oakland as we get to the end
of September. But I'll give you my quick memory, which
is I don't know why it came to me, but
it always does. It was a ALCS clincher. I believe.
It was nineteen eighty eight against the Boston Red Sox
and the A's are taking the field for the top

(50:23):
of the ninth inning. They're about to put away and
go to the World Series the Boston Red Sox, and
you know, obviously an exciting moment. And in the ballpark,
and we like to talk about music. Here Joe setting
the right tone. They played peaceful easy Feeling by the Eagles.
I mean, how great is that?

Speaker 3 (50:43):
Was great? Greatest sound system in the league too, by
the way, the best sound system in.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
You will never hear that anywhere else ever. Again, peaceful
easy feeling when you're getting hyped up to go to
the World Series. But I'm like, that is so California.
That is so perfect.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Well, the guy that ran it, who was the famous
announcer there the ballpark.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
What a voice he was the bad he was the
voice of God.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
And the sound system they had these huge am speakers
on each down the left field line, right field line,
and they turned that sucker up.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
It was great. It was great.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
In the dugout, it was funny. They did the dot races.
That part of it was outstanding. They had some really
good and then and then when they.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
Were good, the dude in the outfit with that.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Had a drum doing Tata, then he would do the
Tahata thing with it was little like it was almost like, uh,
like they were following. They're definitely grateful dead fans out
there in left field. It was they had a nice vibe.
They've always had a great vibe. Even when they don't draw,
they have a good vibe. I mean, the fans there
are legit. It's too bad because these these people are legit.
I had a great time with them. I would speak

(51:47):
with them before every game. I'd get outside the dugout,
look into the stands and talk to.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
The Oakland fans.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
They're into it, man, They've always been into it. They
love their Oakland A's and.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
That is sad.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
But the way that ballpark is and the way that
place has been run, I could this is what I
do understand why they need to leave Rwanda because it's
not a really good major league facility right now.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Yeah, good sound system and good tunes you can relate
to that.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Oh my god, it was the best. It was the best.
And the guy was funny. The guy running the pie
system was funny. He was funny.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Well that's our look at September. To start this month,
we did a nice deep dive on the stolen base,
but we did begin by talking about this is it, well,
last month of the regular season, the month of September
is here, the weather is changing, the kiddies are back
in school, and Joe Madden has a court of the
day to take us out.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Yeah, and I expected to be in the playoffs annually whenever,
whether it was Tampa Bay or the Cubbies or even
I never got a real good chance with the Angels,
but I really expected to be there. We kind of
built that with the Angels right before I had left there,
and so of course did a wonderful job. But the
thing that I think I learned, and you have to

(52:59):
earn the right to tap into this. You have to
earn the right to tap into this by playing well
all year. But September provides its own energy. It brings
its own energy, but you have to be in position
to be able to tap into it. You go through
the whole season, man, and you get to those those
tough days, it gets a little bit hot, you're grinding, grinding, grinding,

(53:22):
you're up and down a little bit. Your record, you're
looking at it, you're five over, ten over, fifteen over,
hopefully twenty over, and then above and then your fight, fight, fight.
But then here comes September, and then the groups that
are really not necessarily involved, there's not that same kind
of energy within the group on a nightly basis versus
those that are. And so you have to earn the

(53:42):
right to be able to tap into this energy. And
that's why you know, when you get to this time
of the year, the teams that are definitely in it
have a huge advantage playing schedules versus teams with five
hundred or less records.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
I think, so that's it. September provides its own energy,
but you have to earn the right to tap into it.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
I like that, and I will give you a one
warning to a lot of content teams. Beware of the
teams that are not in contention, who are playing on
the road. When you change the environment you had now play.
Say you go to Yankee Stadium or you go to
Dodger Stadium, and your season, you know, you're already booking
your hunting trip and your golf trips, all of a sudden,

(54:21):
you're playing in an energized environment that can lift those teams. Now, listen,
I would still rather play the worst teams and the
better teams. That's just a fact of life. Of the
team with the less talent, I'd rather play them, But
I do think they're more dangerous when those teams play
on the road and get a little shot of energy
in those kind of environments.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
And the other thing that's changed, obviously they said to
be really difficult was roster size. Man, when when they
were able to just roster it up your card before
the game was just littered with names back and forth.
So this is another you're talking about. You're playing a
non contender that all of a sudden could match you
up because at that time wasn't.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
A three batter minimum.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
So you're really you're matching your roster, your moves up
with what they're possibly able to do now that they
couldn't do a month earlier, a couple of days earlier
than that. So the roster size and the ability to
match things up is really significant when you're able.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
To have more people on the roster.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
I mean, particularly that came with left handed stuff you know,
left on left hand, left handed pitcher on left handed hitter,
you know, you want to pinch it somebody that's left handed,
they're definitely gonna have a lefty warming up in the
bullpen and we're gonna be doing.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
The same thing.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
So it really mitigated a lot of left on left
kind of things, or you're trying to get left on
right at the end of the season, but you can't
because there's so there's so much available to each team.
So that's also that's one thing I did like. I also,
you know, I've often thought that that was a little
bit out of control, and so I think the idea
or the fact that you do limit roster size this

(55:52):
time of the year is the right way to do it.
Because before, man, I'm telling you, it was a paint
in the butt. Now, the good part was when you
needed to give somebody you got good game or a
bad game, you're kicking somebody's by your game and your
butt kicked. You have enough guys to get your real
guys off the field. That was important. So that was
why I liked the bigger roster size for those reasons too,

(56:13):
just in order to give your guys a day of
rest when they really needed it, but all over the map.
But that's September. September brings its own energy. But you
got there and the right to tap into it.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
September brings its own energy, and it is sprint time
in baseball. It's no longer a marathon. One more month.
Here we go, Joe, enjoy September, Enjoy watching the Brewers
play like the Rays, and enjoy all these stolen bases.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
I shall bro the way to bring it up man, Yes,
always loved it. I was a cardinal fan mister Brock.
I met Lou Brock, actually had one of his bases.
I got it from him personally. He had a charity event.
I paid I think, I don't know, five thousand bucks.
He signed it for me. I got it in storage.
I got to get it back out. But Lou Brock, man,
what is he? Seven stolen bases in two World Series

(57:01):
home runs and at the time he didn't slide at
Detroit with a loss of the Tigers in that one
game was big. But I was a huge, huge, huge
Bluebrock fan.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Thirteen steps every time, thirteen steps to stolen base, to
steal second base, thirteen steps ending with a feet first
slide just like Shoe Otani.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Wonderful man too, man with a gentleman, gentleman.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
Absolutely, gentlemen.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Absolutely, we'll see you next time, Joe.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Thanks brother.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
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