The Book of Joe: The 2025 World Series!

Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci begin their coverage of the 2025 World Series!  The Dodgers are heavily favored, but how can the Blue Jays win 4 games against LA?  How will both teams handle their pitching rosters in this matchup?  Tom notes Shohei Ohtani making history coming into his first World Series and how that carries over against the Blue Jays.  Tom and Joe comment on the Giants hiring Tony Vitello as their new manager.  Plus, we get our World Series picks!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey there and welcome back to the Book of Joe
Podcasts with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden. And yes,
it is World Series time, the one hundred and twenty
first World Series the Toronto Blue Jays against the Los
Angeles Dodgers. Joe, the simple question for you is Dodgers

(00:35):
heavily favored, give me a path, somehow, some way where
the Toronto Blue Jays can win four times in seven
games against the Dodgers.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
I think the only chance is I thought about this
is there. They have to get more of their starting pitching.
I know that's like a real reach. If they want
to go into a bullpen war with the starters of
the Dodgers, they're just going to fall over pass out
because there's too many innings to cover and they won't
be able to cover all the dynamic versions of the Dodgers' lineup.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
So it's really a pitching thing.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
I believe for them to win offensively w pesky in
spite of the really good Dodgers' staff, I think they'll
still be able to move the ball in situations being
the Blue Jays are still going to pop a home
run now and then that's gonna happen. But overall, I
mean to just think you're going to go to that
pen and that pen gosh. I mean, it's got to
be somewhat exhausted right now. So I believe they have

(01:33):
to be especially early on in this thing as it
goes on. If you get down, of course, all bets
are off. You have to do whatever it takes to win,
et cetera. But my point is earlier in the series,
just see if Gosma could go deeper or Savage can
go more deeply into the game permitted to happen, and
try to maintain the integrity of your bullpen somewhat Otherwise

(01:55):
I got no chance at all.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
I would agree with you. I think that's a great take, Joe.
I mean, you're up against, you know, one of the
great pitching staffs at least rotations. We've seen it a
long time in the modern game, which has become such
a bullpen game. This is a rare case where you're
looking at four aces and they're all healthy. Shoe a
Otani is the number four starter for the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Need I say more about their pitching depth I mean,

(02:19):
it's just crazy. They held Milwaukee to a one eighteen
batting average in the NLCS, and Milwaukee, like Toronto, is
a team that puts the ball in play. I have
a hard time seeing where four wins are coming from.
You're right, They're going to have to hang with the
Dodgers starters, There's no question about it, starting with Trey
you Savage, the pride of potsdown Pa in game one,

(02:41):
Kevin Gosman two and likely Shane Bieber three. Max Sures
are four. Listen. It's I like the way they play
offensive baseball, but again you're up against the swing and
miss staff. Here's the other thing, Joe, let's rewind to
the ALCS and Seattle. I thought was a really good
matchup for Toronto because the theme for Seattle pitchers and

(03:02):
this is up and down there. They call it DTZ
dominate the zone and they flood the zone with fastballs.
They throw more fastballs than any team. They get more
pitches ahead of the count than any other team that
played right into the wheelhouse of the Toronto Blue Jays.
It's a very aggressive swinging team, highest contact team in

(03:23):
Major League Baseball. They slugged over seven hundred on first
and second pitches of at bats. It wasn't as if
they beat Seattle with two strike hitting. I know they're
a good two strike hitting team. To me, you're not
beating anybody living on two strikes, you know, you're just
scratching out a hit here and there. Where they won
the series was swinging early in the count. And that's

(03:44):
especially with George Springer's home run and Andreas Semnez's home run.
But they did a time and time again, that's not
happening against the Dodgers. Joe in the ALCS, Seattle threw
sixty one percent fastballs the season average about fifty five percent.
The LA Dodgers beat Milwaukee throwing forty percent fastballs. Blue

(04:06):
Jays are just going to see a ton of of
spin and change ups from that from that staff in
l A. And to me, now, it's going to be
about play discipline more than being aggressive early in the count.
They're gonna still hunt fastballs early, They're just not going
to get them from the Dodgers.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Isn't it amazing that one hundred mile an hour fastballs
are not good enough?

Speaker 4 (04:27):
You know, we have to revert to other things so often.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
I've always had that discussion, and that was a big
thing coming up to the to the ranks, the number
one pitch would be the fastball, but not just the fastball,
the command of your fastball, throwing it where you want to,
getting ahead of counts, inducing early count outs. That was
a real secret to having your starters pitch more deeply
into a game.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
And that you know.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
I still love that concept, and obviously it had worked
for Seattle during the season. In a short series, maybe
not so much, and again I'd have to go back,
and of course your research is always great, but it's
it's about one thing about throwing a fastball right down
the middle or being able to spot it up a
little bit, and maybe, like I said, inducing the contact,
not so good in getting a weaker outs and preserving

(05:12):
pitches for later in the game. However, obviously the Blue
Jays knew that, and that's part of analytics in today's world,
where you can more confidently go into a series or
a game strategically and have more confidence that the information
you have is correct. We used to rely on an
advanced scout, and an advanced scout would sit behind the play

(05:35):
for a series prior to you playing the next team.
And they would just jot down what they perceived to
see and difficult, it's difficult to really sit there and
ascertain that they threw sixty percent fastballs unless you just
charted every pitch. You just knew they threw a lot
of fastballs, and that would be the response. But when
you get exact information, and that's part of the analytical

(05:57):
world that I do like a lot and relied upon heavily.
So when you get a bite like that, when you
get a nugget like that, you can't walk away from it.
So when the hitters go up to the play confidently
they're looking for one thing, and who knows, I mean,
they could even have broken it down to in or away.
So if you're looking fastball away, elevated away, whatever, away
or in, which probably is not the case most of

(06:18):
the time, it's middle away. At least you go in
there and you're gonna let it, You're gonna turn it loose,
you're gonna let it fly. And that's that's the analytical
world that does that should that's the part that should
get the credit that does matter when you break it
down like that, and you could give your guy a
nugget that he leans on and commits to and of

(06:39):
course here it comes. Wow, what a difference that makes
as a hitter. So yeah, the breaking ball as rule.
We've talked about this. When I was with the Cubbies,
we got beat up by breaking ball in the postseason.
A lot of our hitters just didn't didn't react well
to it. So I would think that the Dodgers are
gonna obviously do the same with the Blue Jays. Now
you're absolutely right with that, it's not a big secret.

(07:01):
Then it's up to the Blue Jays. How do you
do that? You stick, you know, tried and true strength.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
What am I? How am I going to approach this?
Am I going to.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Start hunting breaking ball over fastball? Which is always a
tough thing to do. But I'm sure they've they have
their staff together. They're going to go into it and
have this game plan derived from information most recently. But
then again, you have to remain flexible because teams.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
Do it just well.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
It sounds like, you know, to me, the Dodgers have
the breaking stuff, the secondary stuff to really stick with
that plan. I mean, you think about Blake Snell on
the postseason. He's throwing more changeups than he ever has
in his career. It's it's a beauty and he varies
the speed on that pitch from seventy nine to eighty nine.
He just has a terrific command of that. Right now,

(07:47):
we know about his curveball. I mean it's one of
the best in the business. He has not given up
a hit on his curveball this postseason. You've got Yamamoto
with the splitter and the slow breaking ball. You know,
show Hey with the splitter and the sweeper glass. Now
the big overhand curveball that's starting for Joe for the
Dodgers has given up one home run on a curveball

(08:11):
the entire season. I mean, they're going to have to
hit some off speed stuff at some point in this series.
You're talking about the Toronto Blue Jays, and I think
you're right. I think they did attack fastballs away early
in the series from Seattle. The only adjustment I saw
from Seattle. Then they went in on Vlad Guerrero later
in the series. He still got his hits, but I

(08:31):
didn't think they zagged enough. After digging throughout the first
part of that series, the Dodgers are just gonna see
different looks. So Joe, it sounds to me, like, you're
probably right about this. The pressure point for the managers
in this series is when they go get their starting pitcher.
And you could say that typical in a postseason environment, right,
but I think especially for John Schneider as well, what's

(08:52):
your take on that when he's got you know, let's
face it, you savage out there in game one his
first game this year, Joe was in Jupiter, Florida against
the Hammerheads in front of three hundred and twenty these
seven people. Now he's starting game one of the World Series.
You've seen him. How much rope you given him?

Speaker 3 (09:10):
I've given him rope, I mean, especially in the first game.
I would I don't want to start blowing it up.
Now they get what two.

Speaker 4 (09:16):
Days day off, three days day off? Is that all
this is gonna work?

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, so that there's a there is time for relief
pictures to regroup in a shorts in these these playoff series. However,
I'm just watching the body of work that they've gone through,
and uh, listen, these guys are all going to be
all hands on deck. They're gonna adrenaline's gonna flow, they're
gonna feel good, et cetera. But when you throw too much,
and there is some sort of fatigue sitting, and that's

(09:40):
where command kind of evade you. You might not still be
able to throw the ball hard, but not throw it
hard or well exactly where you want to throw it.
So again, like I said, with with the Savage and
glasnow especially not so much Bieber and Shures, I would
be a little bit more patient in these first two games.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
I would.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, let's talk about the Dodgers, because you've seen enough
of Dodger baseball in the postseason that they love to
get their starters out after the eighteenth batter, right as
the lineup turns are over a third time. It's a
different way of running a game. Now for Dave Roberts
to me, the magic number now is twenty two. Giving
your starter the top of the lineup a third time.

(10:20):
They are doing They've done that this year nine times.
Joe in the postseason had ten games. They're nine to
zero in those games when the starter pitches to at
least twenty two batters. Now, Dodger starters had done that
only nine times in the past four seasons postseasons combined.
Dave is not quick on the hook. Now, he trust

(10:40):
these guys Blake Snell famously taking out twenty twenty game
six World Series by Kevin Cash with the one hit
shutout in the works. That ain't happening. I think he's
gonna ride these starters because they do have the stuff
and they are fresh to pitch a third time through
the lineup exactly.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
That's that's where the advantage really lies. They're good, they
got You're talking earlier about their usage of these other pitches,
whether it's a split curve, change up, there's still power pitches.
You know, you talk about Glasnow's curveball. My god, nobody
wants to swing at that. You look, talk about snalls break.
Nobody wants to swing at that. It's hard to square
that up. I mean, if you hit it, you're normally

(11:22):
gonna you know, you could hit it somewhat well, but
you're not going to just smoke it, like if you
just square up one of their fastballs. And that's part
of it. It's going to be a weaker contact. And
when there's weak contact, your defense gets bigger. That's always
been my thing. When you're with Kyle Hendrick, Kyle and
do such terribly weak contact all year, our defense got
huge meaning if the ball's not struck harder put in

(11:43):
the play hard, your defense plays bigger because they have
more they creates more range by the ball being hit
more softly. And that's what happens on these breaking balls.
With these Dodger pitchers, they're able to do that. You Savage,
same thing, I mean with his stuff and his splitter,
and I think the unique delivery and the same with Glassnow,
these are the two guys they have that I think

(12:04):
the best opportunity to produce less than strong contact versus
the Dodgers, whereas I think Bieber and sure, you've got
to be more careful with So, yeah, the Dodgers have
a distinct advantage. And beyond that, just what you just said,
their bullpen is way more rested. Obviously, Now you could
argue how much they love their bullpen, but overall, they
did a pretty nice job in the last series and

(12:25):
now they're, gosh, they're going into this thing like they're
almost breaking spring training.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
They're in that good as shape.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
So every arrow points in the direction of the Dodgers, obviously,
but this is a game, this is baseball, and it
doesn't always work out that way. However, it's hard to
run away from the distinct advantage they have with their
starting pitching going to this World Series.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the defense because I
think that's one area Toronto actually does have the edge.
I mean, of the Dodger playoff teams I've seen in
the last decade, this is one of the lesser defensive
groups that I've seen out of them. They're good, don't
get me wrong, but this is a team that Annerley
has finished first or second and defensive efficiency, you know,
turning bat balls into outs. Part of that is because

(13:06):
their pitching does, as you said, induce weak contact. They're
not as good in that regard, and I like the
way that Toronto plays defense, so they have an edge there.
At Toronto, I think is an edge on running the bases,
they have an edge on making contact. I'm not sure
those little things are enough again to win four times.
Would you agree, Joe, that the Toronto Blue Jays must
win one of the first two games at home. Now,

(13:27):
the last round against Seattle, they lost the first two
at home and won the series. That's not easily done.
It's a different team, and you've got Savage with the
uniqueness of the way that he throws and Gosman your
ace in these first two games. I don't think that
Toronto Blue Jays can survive going to the Los Angeles
down two games to none.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
I've already said that to one way golf partners. That
can't happen if they start out into it is. Basically,
I can't say any conceivable way they could come back
from that. Talking about the Blue Jays defense, all of
a sudden, I'm reading about Bobashett being possibly well again.
I can't see any way that would put him back
at shortstop. Has that been part of the discussion.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
No, they actually this is interesting. They actually had him
taking ground balls at second base. Now, he has never
played second base in the major leagues. I'm not sure
if he's done so in the minor leagues as well,
but he took the ground balls. Obviously he doesn't have
the range to play shortstop. Jimenez is going to play shortstop.
The question is would you put him at second base,

(14:31):
a position he hasn't played before with a bad knee. Now, listen,
he's gonna have to play in Game one because you
got Blake Snell on the mount. They're gonna have run eight, right,
handed hitters out there at Jmenez. The question is, is
George Springer well enough to play the outfield so that
set can DH I'm really curious to see what the
alignment is Game one for Toronto.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
I would bet yes. I would bet Springer does that.
I just watched them run out to the field after
they won. He was so excited. I would bet with
the way the training staffs are able to operate now,
how quickly with all the modalities they they can get
it back out there.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
I'm betting that will occur.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Regarding Bashette playing second base, if in fact you wanted
to do that. I don't know the propensities of the
starting pitching of the Blue Jays, but and I know
this is available as flyball pitcher versus a ground ball pitcher.
If any of these starters are flyball starters, definitely you
could consider that. And even when I was with the Cubbies,

(15:27):
we had a chart that was I really liked a lot.
It helped me when I wanted to put Hobby at
third base or not where's the ground ball is going
to be hit? It was actually see that that's this
is the part of analytics. Nobody talks about regarding setting
up a defense, if in fact you have different versions
of your defense that you could have went out there,
but we had like Jake Arietta, the ground ball was

(15:47):
never hit the third base.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
It was weird.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
It was like nobody hit ground balls at the third
base when Jake pitched. Okay, So you could put less
emphasis on the third base defense on that particular day
if you chose to. So I liked that kind of stuff.
And so flyball pitcher Bashett go ahead plumbing second base
at least maybe for his first three at bats. And
if you grab a lead, then you get him out
and you put your stronger defense in. If you're behind,

(16:11):
then you just have to ride it and stay with
his offense until you know whatever happens. So these are
the kind of discussions I would have under these circumstances.
Identify you, you know who your pictures are, you know
you already know this stuff, and then you try to
place him accordingly. And then if you could just make
him somewhat solve it out there, if you believe he is,
if he's if he can't protect himself, don't do it.

(16:32):
Second base very difficult, however, in today's game rules and regulations.
Playing second isn't as dangerous as it had been, so
that has to be a part of the consideration too.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, Y Savage is a more of a fly ball pitcher,
of course. Then he goes out the last game and
gets three round ball double plays. So the game will
find you. You know that either way they're gonna have
to put a compromised Springer in the outfield or compromise
Bashette at second base. Lesser are of those two evils
for me is Springer in the outfield and d H Ship.

(17:01):
We'll see what happens there. Hey, we also have to
talk about show hey Otani back in Toronto for the
team he spurned when he was a free agent. Get
ready for the booze, folks. We'll talk about the unicorn
right after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome back

(17:30):
to the Book of Joe. Joe Sho hey Otani is amazing.
We know that. But one of the most amazing things
is that he keeps surprising us in ways that he
amazes us. Right, Like we're used to people breaking records,
you know, cal Ralely the home run record for catchers,
for switch hitters, it's a game of leap frog where
you go a little bit farther beyond somebody else. Shoe

(17:52):
Otani keeps planting flags in unchartered land, like he's doing
things we never even thought were possible, never mind going
beyond what was possible. Of course, I'm talking about his
game in NLCS Game four, where he hit three home runs,
including one out of Dodger Stadium, and was the winning pitcher,

(18:13):
throwing shutout ball with ten strikeouts. I call him the
ultimate slice of e ven diagram. There have been more
than seven hundred three homer games in baseball history, there
have been ten ten strikeout games in baseball history. That
is the only one in which a player did both
three home runs and ten strikeouts. I keep saying, what

(18:36):
could he do next to Amazis? And he, somehow Joe
keeps finding answers. So this is his first World Series
being a two way player and by the way, being
fully healthy. Remember he basically blew out his shoulder last
year early in the World Series and played with one arm.
So we're seeing show Hey at his absolute world class

(18:57):
best now as a two way player in the World
Series for the first time. I hesitate to even ask this, Joe,
but what are we about to see.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Well, how did Larry Bird react to people booing him
under the foreign courts during an away game?

Speaker 4 (19:11):
That will just serve to motivate him.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
If in fact they are lining up and they bow him,
are you going to see that show? Hey smirk As
he's standing out there, he'll probably bout to the crowd
very respectfully, and then he'll just destroy them.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
His confidence is going to be higher. Probably.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
You started the series out, the last one against Milwaukee
struggling horribly at the plate, pulling off everything. Finally takes
VP on the field and kind of like I guess
figure things out based on the performance posts that so
we'll know early on.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yes, savage over the top.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
If he tries to ride that high fastball, that could
be absolutely destroyed. So yeah, I just think right now
to say the Choi's confidence is high?

Speaker 4 (19:52):
When is it not? But this is like it.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Should be soaring right now, and go ahead and feel
him a little bit more and see what happens. But
we've talked about this several times before. None of this
surprises me. I watched it firsthand, spoke with him and
Epay a lot, and things don't face the Scott. He
he is the beatles, he's elbows, he's all those things,
and he handles it so well in such a real

(20:16):
calm and efficient, motivated way. It's like, can anybody be
more energized well looking so calm as he is.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
He's just different, that's it. It's just different.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, And just to fill people in the story, he
was a free agent of course, the winter of twenty
three twenty four. In December of twenty three, he takes
a trip to Dunedin, Florida, to the Blue Jays spring
training facility. They're trying to recruit him, get him to
sign there as a free agent, and he went with
Epay Mizujara, his interpreter, and Nes Bilello his agent, and Decoy,

(20:51):
his dog. The Blue Jays have an amazing spring training facility.
It might be number one in the business, renovated a
few years ago at quite a cost, so they were
proud to show that off. He shows up, walks into
the room and they have three lockers all festooned with
Blue Jays swag for both ipe Bolello and for show Hay,

(21:13):
and they give the dog Decoy a Blue Jays Canada
goose jacket dog jacket to wear. I mean it is
the whole nine yards. They even filled the locker with
the best Hugo Boss outfits, which is Sho Hay's favorite designer.
The meeting went really well. I mean the Blue Jays
left the meeting thinking we have a real shot at

(21:33):
signing this guy. They made an offer which turned out
to be almost identical to the one he signed with
the Dodgers for of course he did go to Los Angeles.
We thought that all along, but the Blue Jays were
left at the altar after thinking we had a shot
at signing him. And of course, a month into the
season April twenty four, show Hay the Dodgers play in Toronto.

(21:56):
First at bat, he gets loudly booed and on the
third pitch that he sees, he hits a home run.
That is sho hey Otani. And it's funny, Joe that
John Schneider, the manager was there. Of course, the whole
front office was there at the wine and Dine in
spring training, and when Schneider saw him before that game

(22:17):
in twenty four, he joked with him behind the plate, hey,
we want our hat back. And actually Schnider brought up
again Thursday in the press conference before the World series. Yeah,
we want our hat back and show he said, I
still have it. It's in my garage. It'll be a
talking point through this series. I think all along we
thought Shohey would be signed, sealed and delivered with the Dodgers,

(22:39):
just the way it turned out. But I'm telling you,
these Blue Jay fans, they'll be creative. They'll welcome him back.
And I agree with you, Joe, if it's possible for
show Hey to be any more motivated to be the
best player in the world, they're gonna give him a
little more.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
I mean the team that he kind of rejected, like
you said, left at the altar. I thought it would
be kind of interesting, you know, for the just for Canada,
not just beyond Toronto, that if he had signed there
the fact, how that would really energize the game even
more in the in that country. They've had such a
great history with Montreal in the past, and of course

(23:13):
the Blue Jays now, and I participated with the Edmonton
Trappers when I was at the Angels as a roving instructor,
and the Vancouver also Vancouver, British Columbia beautiful and I
really always enjoyed the Canadian baseball fan. I mean, there's
a lot going on there. They're they're very passionate about
their their their teams, and uh and the and the
cities themselves are fantastic. So I thought that would have

(23:36):
been an interesting take. However, like you're talking about, it
just seemed to be no way that Hollywood would not
land show Hay, and they did, of course, had.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
He not, had they not, I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
I mean, the Dodgers' success the last couple of years
has been quite amazing. I can't tell you for sure
they would be this amazing had show Ay not signed there.
They got a nice team, there's a lot of good
stuff going on. We're talking about their starting pitching, but
the dynamic component of show Hay being subtracted from that,
it would look differently. And so you look at the
contract he signed, pretty elaborate and pretty heavy, but something

(24:10):
that he kind of designed, meaning that he wanted to
be there. That would be a nice version of It's
a wonderful life. Let's go back to Potterville and see
what it would look like if George didn't really exist,
and if Showy never really existed in Los Angeles, all
this wonderful stuff good, but I can't tell you for
sure that they'd be in the same position without him.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
I agree, he's at the heart of it, there's no question.
And in talking to Dave Roberts yesterday, you know there
have been times this postseason where he's hit Will Smith third,
But he said he's going to buy his three big
boys right at the top of the lineup, show Hey,
Mooky Betts, and Freddie Freeman. It's a no brainer for me.
I love it that way. The game is going to
funnel to Mooky Betts. I just think they don't have

(24:50):
this stuff to attack. Show Hey right now. It's an
all right handed starting rotation with the Blue Jays Bets
a swinging the bat really well right now. So the
Dodgers are perfectly fine with that. But I, Joe, I
have a hard time seeing that show Hey is going
to get anything to hit. I think he's especially going
to see a ton of splitters. You know, show Hey,

(25:10):
a fastballs up he absolutely destroys. If you dot the
bottom rail of the strike zone. I'm talking about the
lower quarter of the strike zone, so it's essentially two
feet off the ground. Oh Hey, is a one to
seventy five hitter. You get it up above that and
these slugs over seven hundred. So if I'm Toronto, the
game plan to me has got to be change up sliders,

(25:35):
splitters down, down, down, and don't try to surprise him
with a fastball up.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
It's like the old Vladimir Gurero days worked with Laddie
Senior and then worked against him. And I would tell
my pitching coach and the pitchers, don't ever think he's
set up for anything. Don't ever think that. Don't ever.
Don't you think that you got him set up. You're
gonna sneak something by him. You've shown this, this and this,

(26:01):
and all of a sudden he set up for breaking
ball down in a win that dirt or an elevated fact.
Don't think he set up. Just get rid of that,
so would show Hey. My thought would be this, we
don't care if you walk them. You just keep making
your pitch. Whatever we perceive to be the right way
to attack him. You just continually make this pitch. And
that leads into your comment about Bets being very popular

(26:22):
in this series for the Dodgers, and I think he
can handle it actually, So that's it. I mean, you don't.
Don't think that you can when a guy's that good.
It's like when we Barry Bonds in the two thousand
and two World Series. We go into that and you know,
we didn't play them all that year, and we go
into that thing. Well, he hasn't seen our pitching yet,

(26:42):
he hasn't seen us yet, and the first pitch from
Jared Washburn is still going and we immediately, we immediately
changed course right there.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
We did to our credit.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
So guys like this, in situations like this, you just
have to keep your ego in the back pocket, realize
how good they are, and then develop your plan and accordingly.
So instead of saying don't do this or don't do that,
because that's the negative approach, listen, just attack to the
point where if he eventually does walk, it's okay. Keep

(27:15):
attempting to make the pitch that you want to and
don't ever think you have him set up for something else.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
All right, let me flip it to you on the
other side, then on Vlad Gerrero Jr. As hot as
he is and he doesn't have Mooki Betts and Freddie
Freeman behind him. If you're the La Dodgers, do you
take your old Bryce Harper treatment and try to take
him off the board and frustrate him by just feeding
him pitches out of his own How do you pitch

(27:41):
lad if you're the Dodgers, yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
I mean they're the pitching there with Snow and the boys.
I would just I would attack him this first game.
I wouldn't just run away from it, because if you
could actually, in this first game, especially have your way
with him and get him off his game a little
bit or create some doubt in his mind, that might
benefit you the rest of the series. You know, I
know he's got a nice series, and I know what

(28:03):
he's doing at it.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
I get it.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
But he will accept his walks too, So that's another thing.
Keep it's almost like the show. I think, keep making
your pitch, but let's go and see if we could
get him to chase a little bit, get him out
of his game plan a little bit, create a little
bit of doubt in his mind, because if they do that,
then there's really probably zero chance for the Blue Jays
to really surface in this series. But early on, I

(28:25):
wouldn't I wouldn't putts around him. I think I would
attack him early on, making my pitch. According to what
we think is the right way to go about this.
But I would definitely go after him early.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, and you say go after him, would you attack
him with fastballs exactly?

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Again, I don't know these specifics gotten report on him.
I would not run away from that, but yeah, I
mean I would think for me, I would absolutely, especially
with Snell, if he could get that fastball in on him.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
It's a tough pitch.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
When you're throwing that hard at that angle, coming at
your hands right handed from a lefty, that's problematic. It's
really hard to get your hands inside on the head
out on that pitch.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
So I wouldn't be I would' run away from that.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
I think the fastball he could be more, Lad could
do a better job with U was out over the plate,
all over the plate, elevated a little bit, that'd be
an easier pitch for him to attack.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
Just anything out away from so fastball.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
To me, i'd keep it tight and then after that
just go to work with that change up in that
breaking ball to the back foot. Listen, Snall's that good?
You know, I wouldn't have Bob Gibson pitch around Vlad.
I mean, it's like, go ahead and do this. I'm
not saying he's Bob Gibson, just saying this stuff is
pretty oppressive.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
You'll love this story too. Remember if Ladd started out
the Alcs zero for seven, grounded out six times. And
I remember talking to Don Maddingly and he said that Ladd,
especially in big spots and especially at home where the
crowd is, you know, really on their feet wanting him
to do so well, just he wants to do so well,
he gets a little too quick and that's where the

(29:51):
rollover ground balls come from. He was hitting the ball well,
but the contact point was just a little too far
out in front for him to get the ball in
the air and drive it anywhere. So before Game three
in Seattle, the hitting coach, David Popkins, who by the way,
was a hitting coach in the Dodger system, knows a
lot of these hitters. I think he does a fabulous
job with this team. They've gone from twenty third and
run scored last year to fourth this year. He brings

(30:15):
Lad into the cage, he said, we're going to fix this,
and he got him up against the curveball machine. Why
it slows the guy down, keeps him back and just
moving the contact point back slightly, no swing change, no stands,
set up change, none of that, just getting him back
on time by staying back on the curveball. He's been
a monster since then, so listen. Maybe he gets a

(30:38):
little anxious again. World Series, your home again, Dodgers, all that,
but he's in a good place right now to give
the hitting coach a lot of props there for finding
the right fix in the course of a series.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah, this is not time for mechanical changes at all.
More than anything, you would just talk about, you know,
seeing the ball, waiting on the ball, utilizing in the
middle of the field, waiting for the ball.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
Let's describe it to right central.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Maybe if there's any change at all, maybe you got
your feet a little bit tangled up, maybe your feet
are set improperly. Maybe you're starting to close down. Let's
get our feet back right. But anything with the upper body, hands,
you know how you manipulate your hands, you're your first move,
all those kind of different things. I would stay away
from any kind of mechanical noise right now.

Speaker 4 (31:22):
It's all about feel, like you said, a little bit quick.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Little bit anxious. All those things are really detrimental. You
want you want to. You know, it's an easy gas
kind of a thing over over swinging, swinging too hard.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
It's rarely ever gets it done.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
Whenever you hit a home run and hit the ball
really well, most of the time you come back and
think of met God, I did that so easily. I
just reacted to it. There it was, I saw it,
and everything just worked properly. So I totally agree with
that method right now. It's historically one of my as
a hitting coach. As a season progressed that I wanted
to talk less and less and less about mechanics. You

(31:57):
might have to go over that stuff more often in
spring training coming off a winner. Sometimes you get away
from certain things. You have to be minded about it.
But then when you.

Speaker 4 (32:05):
Get back into that groove.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
I prefer a stronger mental approach teaching wise, season is progress,
and less physical mechanical approach with the season in progress.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Hey, Joe, we're going to take a quick break here
on the Book of Joe. When we get back, in
the interest of full disclosure, I will disclose my conflict
of interest with the Blue Jays. We need to talk
about a fascinating managerial hiring, and of course we'll give
you our World Series pick. We'll do all of that
right after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome back

(32:48):
to the World Series edition of the Book of Joe.
Joe Carter, of course hit that home run off Mitch
Williams nineteen ninety three and the World Series. It was
fascinating Joe to see that George Springer's home run looked
almost identical, right, same inning rerun, Homer jumping up and
down the first baseline. Did that occur to you when
you saw Springer hit that home run?

Speaker 4 (33:09):
Yeah? I mean JC.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
I played with JC in Boulder, Colorado, played in the
Wichita Tournament with Joe. He is one of my favorite
teammates ever. This guy is absolutely the salt of the
earth when he hit that home and I could not
have been happier for him. I knew his brother Freddy too,
Devon White was within that group. A lot of invested
interest in that. But yeah, Joe Harder, gosh, that's what,

(33:33):
like I said, one of my faves of all time.
But yes, there was a flashback moment there.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yeah, flashback for me too, because if you look at
the ball as it sails over the left field wall,
I was actually sitting in the auxiliary press box in
left field, and you can see me slightly standing up.
I thought the ball was going to land on my lap.
It mind up in the bullpen, but it was heading
right in my direction. On my birthday, I had a
great look at that ball. And then, of course, exactly

(34:00):
twenty years ago, now, I went to spring training with
Blue Jays and played a week with them, and I
just found out yesterday that one of the players in
the Blue Jays camp was John Schneider, their manager. Now
he was a non roster catcher at camp when I
was there with the Blue Jays, with Roy Halladay, Frank Catalinado,
Vernon Wells in the gang. So sort of my old teammate.

(34:21):
Then John Schneider, how about that? And how about good?
How about his story, Joe? I mean, he's only been
with one organization for twenty three years. That never happens.
He was drafted, developed, played in the minor leagues with Toronto,
became a coach with Toronto, major league coach, now major
league manager, all in one organization.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
I love that I could identify with that. With the
Angels for a shoot, was it forty years?

Speaker 4 (34:47):
Yeah? For a long time.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
Was with the Angels so I know what that feels like.
And then what he's doing doesn't really happen often anymore.
To work your way all the way through it, you
mentioned be rewarded with that job, and then all of
a sudden you're in the World Series.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
I'm happy for him. I mean, that's what his success
should look.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
I watch when the player comes in off the field
or even after home run, this sincere exchange between them,
because he knows these guys so well. So I don't
know him, but I do enjoy when he speaks. I
think he has ah's. When he does talk, it's a
it's a good feel for the game. His explanations are lucid,
and so I'm really I'm really happy for all of that.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Yeah, he's a good dude, Joe, and it's it's fascinating
to see how he's grown as a manager. He admitted
to me that when he first took the job, he
wanted to please everybody above him. So with all the
information flowing down at the manager's office, he did not
want to contradict that, didn't want to even second guess
that again. Company guy. And I'm say I'm saying that

(35:43):
as a compliment, not as a knock on him first
major league job. That's kind of what you do, right.
You follow the instructions you're given by the people who
hired you. But he's grown in the job now and
he has told this to the front office and they're
not necessarily heavy hands on, but he has talked to
them about how the heartbeat and what he sees on
the field is. He's also information. It may not be analytical,

(36:07):
it may not be data, but it's part of the
information ball of string, if you will, that a manager
has at his disposal. So he now will go with
his gut in terms of when to put people out there,
when to take people out. It's not scripted at all.
I think they let him run his own game. I
think he's grown as a manager. I think one of

(36:27):
his best traits actually blew up on him in the
one game where he brought in Brendan Little, a lefty,
to pitch to cal Raley instead of his closer when
the game was on the line in the eighth inning,
and it blew up on him and he lost. He
didn't make that same mistake again, and he brought his
closer in in the eighth inning next time. But he
does as he said, has tremendous confidence in all of
his players. Little was not the right guy in that situation.

(36:48):
He was nervous, he hadn't pitched well down the stretch.
The manager to learn from it moved on. But his
confidence in his players is paramount, and I think sometimes
you know this, Joe can get you into trouble. You
use everybody on your roster to get to the World Series.
Doesn't mean you have to use them all to win
the World Series. But I like the way he runs
a game. I see him now as fearless and confident,

(37:08):
and as a young manager, I'm not sure he was
that way.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
It's great. It's all great stuff to hear.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
The prep going into a World Series or any series
during the course of this season that Pepper are talking
about from an analytical department is done in a lot
of It's done in a quiet room and not a
whole lot going on.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
It's very sterile. It's hysterial information.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
It's all data, it's all mechanical, it's supportive. Like I said,
there's a lot of this I really do like. But
it's all this large, sample sized stuff that you could do,
like I saider in a calm moment put it together.
It's theory, it's wonderful, it's great, and I want it. However,
the one thing I've always wanted from analyinical analytical departments

(37:47):
was the small sample sized trends. What's going on the
last two weeks of August, how's this guy performed compared
to this large sample sized number that you give me.
The point I'm trying to drive out at is that
you always want to start with this this overarching big picture,
Like I'm looking up my window right and I'm seeing
the val mountains, I'm seeing everything. But in the moment
when things start to change, when things start to get

(38:09):
quick and all of a sudden, this beautiful theoretical novella
that you've written starts falling apart because the other team's
not cooperating.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
That's the moment.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
That is the moment, that's the small sample size, and
that's where experience, intuition, gut feeling take over.

Speaker 4 (38:26):
And that's the part that.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
I've argued with the whole way through, and that is
the part that I love. I love hearing this from
you about John. That's great, and that's where I think
the nurturing components should happen, where front offices need to
understand this. Theory is beautiful, but reality is something completely different.

Speaker 4 (38:45):
So if you were able.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
To from a front office perspective analytical department, explain this
or have this be part of the conversation, we understand this,
this is what we think. But I know of course
it's going to go not going to go this way
all the time. And then this is where I want
you to be able to react based on what you're seeing,
what you're feeling. That's what I never sat in a dugout.
I had to feel the game and I stand on

(39:07):
the top step. So I love hearing all this. That
is the right way to do things. I'm very supportive
of this, and good for him man, Good for him
for being honest about that se you need. That's where
they're managing in the minor leagues for many years. Ermits
you to accelerate through that moment because you get your
butt kicked, you make stupid decisions. You go back to

(39:28):
your hotel room, drink a coke or beer whatever and
have a taco and you get just upset with yourself
because of the dumb thing you did tonight. But nobody
really got to see it except you. Your team, of course,
you're maybe a coach or somebody that might have been
in town, and then you reevaluate and you move on.
It's when you're able to make your mistakes away from
the maddening crowd a little bit easier to swallow.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
But believe for him for admitting to this.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Stuff, and to me, he's got two pressure points in
these games. Number One, we talked about that. You brought
this up right at the top. When to take a
starting pitcher out of the game, when to ride with him.
It's easy for Dave Roberts, He's got basically nobody in
his bullpen. He's going to better his four aces. Easy
to stay with them. More difficult for John Schnider. And
the other thing is, I don't think Joe He's got

(40:11):
a good matchup for show hey O Tani in his bullpen.
I really don't. I don't see that left handed specialist.
The lefties for the Brewers and the Phillies gave show
Hay trouble. There's no question about it. You know, Christopher
Sanchez is just a nightmare matchup. Lizardo. Those lefties from
Philly were tough on him. I don't think John Schnyder's
got that, guys. That's why I think it's an avoidance procedure.

(40:32):
When it comes to what the Blue Jays do, it's
show hey, That's why I see this series funneling towards
Mookie Betts.

Speaker 4 (40:38):
Great points.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
I mean, for me, you you just have to continually
test show Hay's patience. He's going to show you very
early on if he's locked in. If he shows you
in this first game he's locked in. That's like the
Barry Bonds method. Just walk away, don't even think. Don't
think you got him set up for anything.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
The Lefties.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
The one thing that I did notice obviously and show
he's done in the past.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
He will chase that down.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
And away breaking ball, but you have to get it
down and the way if you leave it middle and
that's going to go far. So these are the kind
of things that need to be spoken about. But I
would test his patience and if you have to move
it along, move it along. Even though the other options
behind him are really good for the Dodgers. You have
to clarify this. That's the point of me. You don't
want to leave anything ambivalent. Which should we do, what
should we not do? We're doing this, and if you

(41:22):
come up with the definitive plan, everybody can follow that
and they're going to make a mistake.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
Of course, you're going to try to.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Do this down in a way, slider into dirt, whatever,
get a little bit quick, and the ball kind of
rolls and hangs and the ball goes over the wall.
It's going to happen. Probably going to happen. But the
overarching point the plan was in place. This is what
we're trying to do. This is my intent, and it
just did not work.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Out, which brings us, in terms of running games to
our final point.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
Here.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
San Francisco Giants and their president of baseball Operations, Buster Posey,
with his first big hire in the dugout, chose a
guy who's never coached or managed in professional baseball, college
coach Tony Vtello, of course, wildly successful with Tennessee three
and a half million dollars a year, which you're gonna
have to pay him because he was making about three
million at Tennessee. Tell me what you think about this, Joe,

(42:11):
a guy who's obviously successful running game on the college level.
We really haven't seen this. We've seen it happen with
hitting coaches and pitching coaches. I can't recall the last
one to go directly and with no experience in professional
ball from college to the pros. What'd you think of
this higher?

Speaker 3 (42:28):
I thought it was interesting, like everybody else did. I
don't know this guy, just hearing his name for the
first time. I don't even know his body of work.
But being successful collegiately and being successful major league wise
are two completely different things. And that's not to denigrate
anything about this. From my history and a lot of
the guys that have involved in Major league baseball for years,
it's kind of insulting in a sense to think that,

(42:49):
you know, it's almost like all the work we put
in really didn't matter kind of a thing, you know,
And from that perspective, it's insulting in a sense. It
really is, because we were bled to believe for years that,
you know, you have to work your way through the
minor league's a ball douaa manage. Then you become rowing instructor,
you actually become a bench coach. You do all these
different things in order to earn your right to be

(43:13):
a major league coach and then a major league manager.
So when guys are just thrust into this, it really
minimizes what this job is all about. Having said all
of that, in today's climate, we've talked about this that's
not really important anymore. It's been shifted even to the
point where John Snyder, who's like really has done it
the right way, admit it. The wan He's just thrust
into the dugout a little bit too quick. I didn't

(43:34):
really understand it. I was able to slow it down,
and now I'm able to watch the game, stay ahead
of the game, and be an effective major league manager.
So it's not to say that this guy cannot do that.
I'm just saying the path to get there is antithetical
to everything we ever believed in coming up to the ranks.
Now he could obviously could be very successful, and if

(43:56):
in fact he is, this is going to lead to
a lot more of this. If he is successful, and listen,
I'm wishing that he is. I again, I don't. I'm
just telling you what I think. If he is successful,
it's really going to lead to more of this, and
it's going to lead to more collision involvement in regards
to the minor leagues and more weight being distributed there
as a put and less to minor league development as

(44:19):
it traditional, as it's been done in the past. I
think all these things are interrelate it the search to
by the Major League Baseball the cut costs in a
sense and rely more on like the NFL does or
NBA whatever, this other method of development that they believe
is as equally effective. So that's where it's at. I think,

(44:40):
I swear I wish this guy's success. I think it's
really interesting. I'm looking forward to hear him speak because
I've heard he's really good at it. Gregario's personality, high energy,
all this stuff you're looking for, no question, But from
those that have done this before, that's where it's at.
I mean, that's just an honest reaction to it, and
to not just explain it that way would be I

(45:02):
would just be disingenuous.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
And I get that. And obviously the world has changed
a lot. I mean, to me, it's no different than
the Angels hiring Kurtsuzuki former player. Where's his managery experience, right,
I'm exactly just betting on the fact that, oh he's
been around the game, he's a catcher, blah blah blah.
But as far as that paying of the dues. Those
days are over with, as you know, in terms of
who they're putting in the dugout to run things. I

(45:24):
like the fact that Buster's going outside the box here,
and I like the fact, as you mentioned, this guy's energetic.
If he's a good leader of people, of men, I
have no problem with the hire. I think that to me,
it's party one is to be a great leader. Question
is do they empower him to be his own leader.
Who does he have next to him in the dugout?
Who actually is familiar with the major league game. I mean,

(45:48):
his baseball still twenty seven ounce, I get it, but
it's not college baseball. There are differences even just knowing
the talent on the field. So put an experience bench
coach there next to him, I'm fine with it. But again,
I like the fact that Buster's going somewhere here that's different.
I know what he prioritizes, and it is leadership. There's
no question about that, and I'm interested to see how

(46:10):
it works out. I think, to me, if you're a
great college coach and you've done it for that long,
it's not like this guy just started out coaching. He's
been around two three decades. I have a good feeling
about this. I you know, it all depends on the
players in the field. Do you know that, Joe. But
as far as him running games, I wouldn't be worried
about that. I just think the college game has become
so much more like the pro game in terms of

(46:32):
what they have available to them, in terms of technologies.
A lot of that it bubbles up actually from college
into the pros. I think the leap is not as
big as it used to be. But again, I'll go
back to the fact that I got I got to
get buster credit here for going outside the box and
making a pick like this.

Speaker 4 (46:46):
Yeah, agreed.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
I mean again, I agree with everything you're saying right now,
but just turning back the clock to the phrase that
everything's different it's a different game today, which I really
I respect that thought, but I don't agree with it completely.
It's it's only it's administrated differently. It should be the
same game, but it's administrated differently. There's different methods involved.
Because when I came up, I'll give you names. Aggie Garrito,

(47:08):
Dave Snow, Chris Gus Gustafson, Jim Brock, Mike Martin, Jim Morris.
There was so many charismatic, outstanding collegiate baseball coaches back
in the day when I came up, I mean, and
very successful. Their records were stupid and constant trips of
the word. Jerry Kendall's another one. So I mean, this
has always been there. It's so I don't want people
to be misinterpreted. There's been a lot of great and

(47:30):
right now Murph with the Brewers. I knew Murph when
he was at Notre Dame and then ASU. I mean, yes,
it's all right there. It's just the fact that to
just never have had any experience at all in pro
ball and just to be given this opportunity. It also
speaks to the way that leadership is being doled out
right now. And I'm not saying this guy is going
to be controllable.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
I don't get that as opposed to being empowered. I
think Buster is going to have to empower this fellow
because he's been the CEO, he's been the he's been
the everything at Tennessee. When you're a college baseball coach,
you don't have to answer to any but yourself regarding
who you're recruiting, how you're recruiting them, the game.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
Itself, the game plan that's you.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
It's it's kind of an interesting gig, and it's it
sounds like kind of a fun gig completely, so he's
gonna have to reassess how this is all done. There's
no way for a major league manager to become part
of the scouting department. You just don't have the time.
You could maybe go out a little bit in January,
maybe February and watch them games prior to spring training beginning,

(48:30):
but once they begin you may be able to watch videos.
I don't even know if they want to include them
in that regard, but there's your time element is so
scattered that it's not like the NFL coaches that that
they can become involved in scouting or NBA coach they
can become involved in scouting Baseball cannot You just don't
have the time to do it. Regarding like recruiting, I

(48:53):
think that was mentioned also like free agents. I don't
really see the fact that if you have a wonderful
personality that you're gonna be able to recruit guys there.
We've all try to do that. I mean, when when
somebody when we want somebody with show, hey, we all
try to recruit show hated the Cubs back in the day,
but at the end of the day, Show He's going
to go based on what he wants, what he thinks

(49:17):
he's most comfortable with, because everybody's going to present a
good case, and everybody's going to have their version of
the gregarious personality. And and like you talked about, show
Hay winded nine by Toronto and then eventually goes to
the Dodgers. So all of these things are going to
be different there as opposed as what they were in Tennessee.
But I'm curious because, like I said, I've been around

(49:38):
a lot of great college coaches, great ones that never
had that kind of opportunity, and even Bobby Winkles back
in the day, tremendous dude.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
It's been out there before.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
This is just the first opportunity, not because the game
is different, but because the administration of the game is different.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
And that brings us, Joe to a wrap up here.
Before we get to your wisdom of the day, we
need to drop our world series picks. Okay, I think
this is going to be a longer series than a
lot of people think. Yes, the Dodgers are on a roll,
They're a juggernaut. I get all that, but I've got
Toronto getting the series back to Toronto. So I do

(50:15):
have the Dodgers winning the series, but I do have
it in six games. I have a hard time finding
four ways for the Blue Jays to win games, but
I could definitely see two, maybe even three. So I'm
going to call right now Dodgers and six.

Speaker 4 (50:28):
What do you got Dodgers in five? I just think
they're pitching.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Is that it is too good? Huh?

Speaker 3 (50:33):
Yeah, you know, I experienced it with the the Angels
versus the White Sox. That wasn't the World Series, but god,
we couldn't even get.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
In their bullpen.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
They were on a roll like White Sox staff and five.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Yeah, when you got and they were all starters, And
that's what I'm talking about with these guys. It would
be the biggest thing would be to somehow get pitch
counts up with these starters for the Dodgers. And that
would be, you know, the the Blue Jays being pesky
like they can be and they're just getting into the bullpen.
But these Dodgers are arrested. They're really good. They got
kind of on a roll right now, not that the

(51:07):
Blue Jays aren't, but I think the Dodgers are even
more so. And after all I thought, you know, I
think we both thought the National League was a better
league all year than the American League had been. So
I'm saying five. I think they're gonna eak out one.
They have to win one of these first tour. It
could even just before zero to four. So we'll see
how it plays up. But I got the Dodgers in five.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
All right, Joe? What else you got for us to
take us home on this edition of the Book of Joe.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
Yeah, my take always was going into the playoffs. I
always wanted to make sure in that meeting before the playoffs,
I ran this by the guys because my first salvo
went to playoff baseball was with the Angels and we
were playing the Yankees and Anaheim. After we had a
long game five al Ds. We'd played a long game
the night before to get it to two to two.

(51:52):
I had to go back to Anheim Stadium and I'm
watching this game. It's kind of a twilight later in
the day game and then we're leading. I'm looking out
on the field and gosh, I'm looking at their players.
There was a different look about and it was almost
like a look of resignation, and I thought, whoa, I
never want our guys to look like that, right down
to the last out. So the one thing I always

(52:13):
bring up to the guys is that, believe me, you
have to know something is going to go wrong, So
know that and react to So the thing that I
found today, some things have to go wrong before they
go right. So don't expect us to be to waltz
through this whole thing. It's if, in fact, we're able
to win this, which we expect to know, there's gonna

(52:33):
be pitfalls. No, there's gonna be moments when this is
not going right and it's gonna go sideways. And we
cannot succumb to this this look and feel of resignation.
You just cannot. We fought too hard to get here.
So I love this, and you have to know this
just probably a good life lesson. But some things have
to go wrong before they go right.

Speaker 4 (52:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
I was gonna say that's great advice for everybody, right.
I mean, if you think your world's going to be perfect,
it's likely you're asleep and dreaming.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
Thank you, brother.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Let it should be a good world series with plenty
of great pitching, so looking forward to this one. A
truly international world series. This series puts the world the
world series. We'll see you next time. Next time we meet,
we'll be talking about this world series right here on
the Book of Joe.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
Thank you, Tommy.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
And I think I'm going to break out a bottle
of my new favorite wine, Lion tamer Cab.

Speaker 4 (53:24):
It's outstanding.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Oh, I'll have to check that out.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
And the Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
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