October 29, 2025 • 37 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci talk about the Blue Jays putting up a fight against the Dodgers. How much was Toronto underestimated going into this matchup? Tom explains what has happened in these games that has the series tied at 2! Tom notes the unbelievable play of Shohei Ohtani in this series, but you could see the wear starting to show. Tom points out some of the big performers in the Series while Joe explains what he's really loved seeing from the Blue Jays!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Aaron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast,
World Series Edition. This is Tom Berducci with Joe Madden
and Joe We got our sell as a series tired
(00:25):
after four games, down to a best out of three
with Toronto holding the home field advantage. Now, a lot
of people thought, and I'm sure you heard some of this, Joe,
Dodgers were just rolling and this was going to be
a four or five game series, selling this Toronto team short. Obviously,
what's your overall take thirty thousand feet and what we've
seen in four games, what might be ahead?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, I was one of those guys. I thought it
was Dodgers in five. That was my prediction when you
had asked earlier. What I'm seeing is I underestimated the
grit of the Blue Jays, I quite frankly did. I
got to see them during the season, and you see
them a lot against the Yankees and some others, obviously
a lot of the Al East team. So I watched
them and they came across well, but not like this.
(01:07):
The kid Lucas really ten year minor league this see
this guy here gets not nearly enough credit for me.
I mean the way he is at batcher that professional.
I mean, there really are, They're so good. The fact
that Vladdie really has, you know, found his voice with
his bat right now, that's outstanding. I love all of
that bar show. For everything that I thought they didn't
(01:30):
have in the past, they have right now. It's kind
of like this gritty, dirty blue collar representing a country
team that man, I didn't I swear to god I did.
I didn't see all that and you got to kill like,
was it Verlin? How do you say his name?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Varland, Louis and Louis everyday? Varland?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Right, they do? Eddie Wardado, I mean, all the stuff
that they're doing, and and Schneider John and the dougot
so stoic. There's times that looks like you might be
a little bit pissed, but he doesn't say anything. Donnie's
right there to calm everything down. There's a nice yinge
and Yango in there. So I was wrong. They are
more than i'd give them credit for. Part. The big
(02:06):
part of it is that Sharzer came through and Bieber
came through. I didn't. I didn't see that. I really
didn't honestly, you know, the first couple of guys you
could see that Savage and Gosman, but the next two
starters really shown better than I think anticipated. And then
I see even the bottom of the lineup by him,
it is I mean, my goodness. I mean, this guy
just works good at bad after good at bat. They're
(02:28):
so focused. So yes, they have met the Dodgers toe
to toe, and they deserve all the credit in the world.
I you know, at this point it's believable that they
could beat the Dodgers.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
One hundred percent. I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I mean, the lineup depth is something that really has
played out in the first four games. You know, coming in,
Dave Roberts, the Dodgers manager, was concerned about.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
The bottom of his lineup.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
You know, he called it some spots where the other
pitcher can catch the breath right where you don't get
stressed so much and you get a quick inning, and
then you can go attack the top of the lineup.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
It's exactly what's playing out here, Joe.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I mean, there's just too many easy out at the
bottom of the lineup, and there's very few in the
Toronto lineup. I mean, once that lineup gets rolling. You know,
I've said it. There's showtime Lakers. They played fast break baseball.
You throw anything near the plate, they're going to put
it in play. They don't stand around and wait for something,
you know, drive up pitch counts. And you mentioned Jimenez
and Ernie Clement is such a.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Love him player. I mean, Joe.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
He was released by an Oakland team two years ago
in spring training that was coming off one hundred and
twelve lost season. He goes home and he thought he
was done. He had two days. He said, it was
like the two longest days of my life. He said,
I had no idea what I would do. And the
Blue Jays picked him up. And here he is, just
one tough a bat after another. And I'll tell you this, Joe,
(03:47):
I don't know if you remember that eighteen in game
that Red Sox played against the Dodgers back in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You know Maximunts he ended it with walk off home run.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
That was the night where Alex Chorus did in front
of his group and they all literally gave a standing
ovation and Nathan Valdi for pitching six innings out of
the bullpen and saving the bullpen.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
They came back and they won the series. They won
the next day.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
And something very similar happened after the Blue Jays lost
in eighteen innings in Game three, where John Schneider stood
in front of his group and he said, this is
not going to turn into two losses.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
We are turning the page. That's exactly what they did.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I mean, I'm not surprised because this is what they do,
and John's already established a culture there where they are
gritty and you know, a grueling loss like that, you
invest so much into a game over eighteen innings and
six and a half hours, you might be wearing it
the next day.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Plus you've got George Springer out of the lineup.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Plus you've got Otani on the mound for the Dodgers,
who's never lost at Dodger Stadium. You know, on paper,
it's like that's it for the Blue Jays and just
so comfortable Joe in places that are uncomfortable, and they
come back the next day like, you know, nothing happened
the previous night. I mean, that's a credit to me
for the vibe they have with this group. Credit to
the manager and the staff.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
There's a lot there. First of all, Schneider saying something
see we've talked about I'm not a meeting guy, but
that happened with us with the Rays lost the double
hitter that year that we had the great comeback, the
greatest night and led to the greatest knight in baseball,
lost the double header Yankee Stadium in September, and I
was like, well, I got to do something here. So
I just went in there and reaffirmed, reassured, listen. Just
(05:21):
like John said, it's like we're turning the page and
moving it forward. We still got this et cetera, et cetera.
So I think that was a great move. Actually, guys
are fatigued, they're so bummed out. It's like it's it's
really hard, man, when you lose a hard fought game
like that that long takes you that long to lose
and all the things that have occurred. So that is
I think that is well timed. Not a speech, just
(05:42):
a quick phraser. Two. I love that now number two,
the National You got a National League line up right
with the Dodgers right now when you're talking about the
bottom of the batting order, and it's just like having
the pitcher and like a number eight hitter that really
didn't do a whole lot. But he was a good
defensive player. That's that's that's what they're dealing with right now.
And I could see that. I mean Paez, I mean
a nice player, a great year ago catcher, I mean
(06:04):
a good center fielder. But it's just not playing right now.
And I don't know that he can go away from that.
I don't know what the alternatives are, but it would
be surprised if they get together as a group talking
about the front office and possibly decide on somebody else
early in the game that might provide more offense and
then eventually bring piz in at the end of the
(06:25):
game for the defense. I don't think that's off the table.
We'll see. And last point, Clement, I love this guy.
He is. He's a non analytical maven. He's the he
gets released by Oakland because he doesn't check all the boxes.
The comp for me is like a David Fletcher. I
loved David Fletcher when I was with the Angels. I
(06:48):
couldn't get enough of him. He was just a flat winner,
just just did things to win the game, played multiple
positions extremely well, you had decent speed. He hurt his leg,
but the last year I was there. But to that point,
he could steal a base because he was smart, He
could play crap out a short stuff because he was smart,
get a big hit because he was smart, and he
(07:09):
was just a baseball player. So the way he fell
off a cliff really upset me because that's who Clement is.
I always thought that David would have been perfect, like
say for the Yankees as an example, a really good team,
because on a really good team they could spot him
in different spots and you could he could just be
that Swiss army knife kind of guy that could do
(07:31):
so many different things. That's what I see with Clement.
I really dig on this guy, and this is the
kind of guy that doesn't get enough play minor league wise.
Moving into a major league situation, he's always going to
arrive with the caveat well he can't do this and
he can't do that. Well, you know what, maybe the
power is not there, maybe you know, the analytical stuff
(07:52):
is not completely there, but I'll tell you what. The
heartbeat is there. The thought process is outstanding. The instinct
for the game is way way above average, which say
on a scale of twenty eighty being excellent, it's eighty.
So hopefully with his success right now, you're going to
see more opportunities for guys like this. And like I said,
(08:12):
it's easier to I believe, carry off in a good
team as opposed to just a SOSO team, because the
SOSO team's trying to assent it. They're always going to
go for the athlete. They're trying to get better athletically analytically,
where the really good team needs a guy to pop
in there to just complete them. And that's what he
does with the Blue Jays.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, it's interesting, Isaiah kind of Leffa told me the
Blue Jays are trying to change baseball. He said, we
want to bring baseball back to baseball now. This is
the guy who played for the Yankees, and he said,
with the Yankees, it was all about getting the ball
in the air to the poll side. It was about
hitting home runs, and ground balls were more than just
frowned upon, very much so discouraged.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
He said.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
With the Blue Jays, it's not that people want to
hit the ball on the ground. But as he told me,
there are times where hitting the ball hard on the
ground to get a base hit is in play. You
don't always want to get the ball in the air,
which leads to a ton of pop ups and swing
and miss. So there's a certain freedom that Blue Jays
hitters have that if they do hit the ball on
the ground, nobody's going to show them an analytical sheet saying,
(09:16):
you know, your launch angle's.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Not good, you got to get the ball in the air.
So there's a certain freedom there.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
They hitting coach David Popkins as this philosophy like he
wants to be like.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
A boxer who can do it all.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
You can jab, you can throw haymakers, fight as many
ways as you can to score runs. And as they said,
IKF said, we are trying to change baseball. It's been
a long time when somebody won the World Series playing
offense that way. The last five years all the World
champions have been in the top four in home runs.
But this is the team now has got a chance
(09:45):
if they win to the next three.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Talked about that exactly. It's so cool to hear all
that stuff. You know, if you wait around long enough
that bell bottom jeans are going to come back in style.
And I got a leisure suit in the other room.
I swear I do that. Hopefully I'll be able to
work down Tampa this winter. When I was a young
hitting instructor Rick Down, I mean, these are Jimmy Lefever
like really good hitting coaches that I was around. I
(10:08):
worked with Benny directly. I worked directly with Rick Down,
and I worked indirectly but around Jimmy lef Feber a lot.
These guys were kind of like the gurus of their days. Now. Benny,
BENNI Hines always promoted back spin. That was Benny. That's
almost like the latter day. Get the ball in the air.
That's what Ben was all about. So you took BP
(10:30):
and I utilized this a lot, working off a tee
and I used to have something called an air teeer.
The ball would actually float above the top of this
team because of a stream of air and then really
spun like crazy, and when you hit the ball, it
actually felt like a ball was pitched. So the whole
thing was to really almost like cut the ball and
half chop the ball and half so you're still getting
kind of like this level downward kind of swing to
(10:51):
the approach. However, the ball was still going to go
in the air. That was Benny. He was like the guy,
the first guy that I really heard preached that rick
down more rick was more like hard ground balls and
line drives. That was another thought of the day, Hard
ground balls and line drives. That's what we talked as
we felt fly balls are out, especially if you're a
little guy. The fly ball wasn't out, fly ball wasn't
going over the wall. Why put the ball in the air.
(11:14):
Put the ball on the ground, heart on a line,
hard on a line drive specifically, and then that would
be cause you to become the best hitter you possibly
can become. So when you hear all this stuff about
the fly ball, and that's what all that's because that's
what guys get paid for. Like you said, that's the
soup dejur right now. So for me, God, it would
be so wonderful if kind of Filifa Lefa keeps up
(11:36):
that language and the Blue Jays move forward and show
that there is more than one way to skin a
cat and win a World Series and then all because
it is it is. We are a copycat industry, there's
no question about it. And I do believe this, I
mean I wanted all. I believe it's easier to teach
that method. The method easier to teach is the hard
(11:57):
ground ball, line drive method, where you have a two
strike approach. You move the ball with two strikes, and
you could It's hard to increase walks if a guy's
DNA is a swing to bat Bobashett as an example,
if a guy's really a swinger of the bat, it's
hard to get him to walk more, but you can
get him to strike out less. I think by having
an approach, a metal approach, adaptations during the course of
(12:19):
that bad flexibility. All those are the kind of things
I used to preach. So you got me wound up
because between talking about Clement Fletcher and all this other
kind of stuff, line drive hard ground ball theory. If
they would just compensate, if somehow compensation got around to
contact somehow and playing the actual game fundamentally and that
(12:40):
was rewarded. I've always I've actually written stuff about this
back in the nineties, in the eighties. That would be
a wonderful place to exist.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Liberal arts, baseball do a little bit of everything, right.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
I'm all in favor of it. It's fun watching this
team play offensive baseball, for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Hey, Joe, we're gonna take a quick break when we
get back. We really need to talk about show.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Hey, o Tani.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
He continues to amaze us, and we'll dive into that
right after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome back
to the Book of Joe. Joey Otani. Joe, I mean
(13:21):
he is. We saw that incredible eighteen in the game
where he gets on base nine times, four extra base hits,
two home runs, including the game tying home run.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
But I actually thought we saw that.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
This guy is in fact human in game number four,
I mean, now was a huge ask to come back
and start that game. I actually thought going into that
day that they might just have him as a pitcher
only in that game. Because he expended so much energy,
his body was cramping. They had to make sure he
was hydrated in the course of the game and afterwards.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
And you saw him pitch really well.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I mean, he competes, there's no doubt about that. But
he did not have his really good top line fastball
in that game. And then in the seventh thing it
started with two base hits when his fastball was down
to ninety six. There was attacks for show hey, for
everything that he did. Really, it's the most exhausting base
running game in World Series history. Based nine times in
(14:12):
the course of six and a half hours and then
turning around seventeen hours later and having to start the game.
But again I thought he pitched well, but he didn't
have his top line fastball. What'd you see exactly?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I mean, he was pulling a lot of fists fastballs,
and I think that's just from trying to manufacture something
that you don't necessarily feel. Joe Coleman, really great pitching coach,
always insisted with the pitchers that if you're not feeling something,
don't try to manufacture it. Just stay, you know, within
your confine, smooth it out, and try to locate the
ball better. Just from that less stressful way of throwing,
(14:46):
you're gonna find what you're looking for. But the moment
you start trying to manufacture something, mechanics break down, and
with that happens the location. So that's he did. He
just competed, and I thought I was actually surprised he
went out in the seventh. I know everything was kind
of okay right there, but I thought, even before the game,
I said, my god, if he gets six, god bless
him six innings and and and it was like what
(15:08):
two to one at that point, Yeah, that would have
been beautiful. I was really That's the part that surprised
me a little bit. But to his you're right is
that bats were going to be less than I felt
the same way. But you still got a plan if
he if he can go and he's what else is
he gonna do there? I mean, they're they're struggling for
offense the way it is, so he's gonna have to
do that anyhow. They might just walk him just because
(15:30):
and then then you got another base runner. But I
thought six was plenty for him. It still indicates how
different he is and how great he is by even
going six plus and and keeping the Dodgers in the end,
there were just both sides were tired. It was obvious.
I thought that the Dodgers appeared to be more tired
than the Blue Jays did. But yeah, I mean, show, hey,
that's incredible, And so I thought six would have been
(15:52):
good enough, and I think everybody would have been happy
at that point.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
The Dodgers looked flat. Now, Shane Beeber did a really
good job. I mean he threw only twenty seven percent fastballs.
I mean his secondary stuff was you know, in and out,
up and down, back and forth. You know, it was
a great job. Of making pitches. But yeah, I mean
Will Smith catches all eighteen innings. I mean he did
not have good at bats. I mean there's a cost
(16:15):
for this coming back so quickly after a game like that.
And you know, I agree with you on Show Hayes
at bats they weren't necessarily great. You know, when you
watch where I Am down field level Joe and you
watch show Hey, you're even more amazed because this is
a starting pitcher in the World Series game, pitches the
top of the first inning and he's leading off the
bottom of the first inning, so he didn't have time
to go down into the dugout and relax, take a drink.
(16:36):
They have to bring all his gear out. He's got
all the protective gear for the arm, the elbow, the
foot and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
You know, the first at bat, he didn't even take
a practice swing.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I mean, it takes a while for him to get
off the mound, be checked by the umpires, get.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
All his gear on.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
He went up to the plate without taking a practice swing.
In between innings when he's going out to the mound.
He made sure he stayed in the clubhouse for a
very long time, came out late. You know, he's only
throwing like four or five warm up pitches. I thought
this game especially, it was a conservation of energy to
get through this game. But people have to realize how
difficult it is from a physical point of view. And
I've talked to some Dodger people about this. You know,
(17:11):
it's almost it's almost incredible that the physical toll of
what he does now as a full two way player,
it's taxing on the body. I don't know how long
you can keep this up. Obviously, he's one of a kind.
I never doubt him. His mind strength, mind over matter
is just remarkable.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Dave Roberts was comparing him to like an ultra marathon
runner or a Navy seal.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
You know, he just will not be denied. He's just
a cut above others. But I'm telling you, Joe that
the physical toll of it, you can see it in
the course of a game.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
And it's pretty warm there last night too, was actually
sweating pretty good to look like. See. That's for me.
That's why I debated with that with him when we
were playing at home, to hit him second and not first.
For the reason you're talking about when you're on the road,
not so much of a deal. I did the same thing.
I think with Wilson Contreras as a catcher, whenever hitting
a catcher lead off, the same thing after if you're
at home first stating z Olver, he comes running in,
(18:03):
it's got to change up, get his gear off, get
the get his bat, and get ready for that first
at bats. It was also a home road split with
my thinking with that. I can't remember specifically how often
I did that, but I know that was part of
my thought process to hit him second for those reasons, because.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
When he was JOSEL two wanted to stop hitting leadoff
once he moved to the outfield.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
For that very reason.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
You know you're running in from left field, you got
it yourself. Hurry up and get ready for the first
a B. He's like, put me second.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I hit a little bit of time.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, that's the when we first when show Hay started
to pitch and hit simultaneously, even when we did it
within National League rules, I hit him second specifically for
all those reasons. Even though I like to listen, I
like him hitting lead off. There's I'm not arguing that point,
but just for his own edification and his abilities just
to slow things down a bit. It wouldn't be a
bad idea. Like, for instance, I hit Betts first, Show second.
(18:53):
You could even pop somebody else starting it pretty fourth.
But although Freddie don't care, so I would. That's the thing.
Everybody's afraid to stack lefties. It's okay to stack rightings,
but you can't stack lefties. However, if you're lefty, can
hit lefties, it doesn't matter. It's like Kyle Tucker can
hit a lefty, it doesn't matter. More recently, Schwerbrick can
hit a lefty, it doesn't matter. I mean, so I
think sometimes that's overplayed it. You got to understand what
(19:15):
you got going on. But I always felt to protect
Showhay somehow, batting second, especially when he's pitching at home,
is not a bad way to go.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I want to get your take on this, Joe.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
You know, running an eighteen inning game like that, it
becomes a manager's game. And I thought the experienced difference
between Dave Roberts and John Schneider showed up in that game.
You know, John went through a lot of his players
early in that game. I mean partly, you know, not
his fault. Bobi Schet was limited. They can't run him
out there to play a full nine innings at this point,
playing defense and offense. He came out of the game.
(19:46):
Of course, George Springer got hurt. He came out of
the game. But at that point your bench is already short.
And there was a point where he pinched ran Miles
Straw for Addison Barger. This is like a minuscule difference
in foot speed between the two of them. Adison Barger
is one of his better hitters, Miles Straw is not.
That was a big downgrade. There was no not a
big upgrade offensively, and I thought Dave Roberts did a
(20:08):
better job just kind of waiting for the game to
play out and kind of saving his gunpower. Reminds me
of Joe Tory running the nineteen ninety six World Series.
Times he could have popped Weaight Boggs into that game,
and he had him at the end against Steve Avery
bases loaded draws, a walk wins the game. The experience
of running these big games, and I asked John about
it and he said, this is what we've done all year,
(20:29):
which is an answer I hate.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
By the way, because he's done it all.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Year doesn't mean you have to do it in the postseason,
these games are played very differently. But he said, if
we have an incremental edge, we're going to go for it.
And that's the way we did it all year. I'm
not taking up Edison Barger out of the lineup when
my bench is already short. In that game, the game
kept coming around till all of his bench players who
were in the game. He took out his catcher, he
took out his dh you know, he took out as
I mentioned, Barger, and the bench guys basically didn't do.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Anything as the game kept coming around to there at bats.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
So give me your thought when you're running these kind
of games and you know, using bench players. I know
you're not playing for eighteen the things that's a rarity.
But without the run around second base, you do have
to protect for some length.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, I mean the old way of the old rules,
when there was no run around second base, even in
a regular season, that was always a concern. You'd always
in your back of your mind. You could see it
all setting up. And it really comes down to pitching. Also,
who are you holding back? Who's you going to save?
Although you can't really save anybody in a playoff game,
But yourself. Have to be mindful that it can run
into this, and that's when you start having conversations with
(21:30):
starting pitchers. During the course of the game. You go
up to your pitchy coach and say, listen, if this
gets at this point, talk to Lackey or Acre or
whatever and say this is a possibility. So you start
putting it in their heads. I'll say this thought about this.
I was asked the question a couple of days ago
or yesterday. More runs for Schwerbert right in the extra
first extra inning in the Indian game, So flagball Olmore
(21:53):
is able to tag up in advance where Shorbwood may
not have, and that eventually leads to Cubs going ahead
comes winning the game. So you're taking out on a
significant bat in Shorbert, who was really hot at that
time for Albert. But that was our take. But on
top of that, though, Schwarves did have a bad leg
and so that all made sense. But then on the
other hand, the Indians make the last out of the
game because Martinez is hitting, because they took Coco Crisp
(22:15):
out because there was a thread of us scoring earlier
and Crisp's arm was so bad, so they bring in
the guy that could throw better. And then, of course,
the last out of the twenty sixteen World Series game
in the game seven, Montgomery versus Martinez, who cannot hit
a left tended curveball, really worked in our advantage, where
as you'd much rather see that than Coco Crisp, but
the player who had been replaced because of defensive purposes,
(22:35):
because we had runner and scoring position and could have scored,
so they put the better arm out there. There's so
many things you have to think about during the course
of the game. I'll say this, the thing that started
for me was like Bushett as a second basement. If
in fact, you know he's gonna you're gonna take him
out in the latter part of the game, I'd be
very reticent hitting him behind a goodrero And I know
you got a big hit on the bar ball down
(22:56):
a ryfield line. But if you know you're gonna replace
him later, that leaves Lad naked. Just it just does
so that that'd be one thing, even though worked out
accordingly that way, game in progress, I don't want whomever's
coming off the bench unless I felt good about this replacement,
hit it behind last. I would have definitely put somebody else,
a lefty before that, maybe with Barger, or it could
(23:16):
have been Varshow something like that behind Vladimir in that situation.
So these are all the considerations. So I'm just I guess,
I don't know if I'm answering the question or not.
But you do try to hold back an opportunity to
win the game. You want to kill yourself if you
don't run for Kirk. Now here's the thing about Kirk.
If he's on first base only I probably would not
have run for him right there in that situation.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Well, yeah, it is he's he was bunting Miles Straw
and there's no way you can bunt Kirk to second base.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
He's going to get thrown out.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Of course. I mean, then you don't do that. My
point is you would then you would then if Kirk
arrives at second base, then you would do it.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I say, you would not bunt with Miles Straw with
Kirk at first base.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
It'd be tough. I mean, that's like Jame Molina. I
mean I would not bunt. I wouldn't try to bunch
Jame Molina to second base.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
But if you do decide you have to pinch, run
for him.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Correct, Yes, correct, you do. That's right, one hundred percent.
That goes hand in hand. You would have had to
have done that. My point is, he who was Straw
hitting for you already in the game, is already in
the game.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Right, Yeah, he's the one who came in for Barger.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, that's that's a that's a different kettle of fish,
as they say up in Canada. Right. So that's the point.
All these the world changes on all these particular decisions
that are being made, and so then you have to react. Yes,
you cannot b Jamo over the second, you would even
try Kirk, You're not gonna bun him over the second.
Can't even try so Dust if you're gonna want to
butt him. The other option would be, like I said,
(24:38):
just let Straw hit. I mean, that's your option. And
if Kirk does happen to be at second base with
like even one out, then I would run for him
for sure. So I would never know what I would done.
I could only could create conjecture you've never known to
you actually are in that situation, But those are the
thoughts that would I would have been conjuring at that
particular moment.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Hey, Joe, we're gonna take another quick break here when
we get back. I want to get your take on
Vladimir Guerrero Junior. I mean, we knew he was a
great hitter, but I think folks are finding out watching
him play here throughout this month of October. He is
on a special level and I want to get your
take on what he does. So well, we'll do that
right after this.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Welcome Back to the Book of Joe podcast. Joe.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I mentioned Black Guerrero Junior, and what a series, what
a postseason is having watching this guy on both sides
of the baseball.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
He's got tremendous court awareness.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
At one point he alerted Max Scherzer he was tipping
his pitches. There was a play, whereas in Barger, the
right fielder with just a candidate for an arm could
have tried to throw the runner ound at home when
he really didn't have a play and it was Glad
who motion throw to third base.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
They throw the runner out at third base. It was
a great play.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And when what he does with his swing, I mean,
I've seen him take cutters off the plate when he's
sitting on the pitch and just drill it up to
center field. You saw him to take a change up
from Blake's now, which is a pretty good pitch, and
just pull that in the hole. And of course he
got a hanging sweeper from shoey Otani and hit it
out of the park. If you talk about Swiss Army
Knights with power and the ability to put the ball
in play, I gotta put this guy. And this is
(26:15):
high praise on a level with guys like Albert poo Holson,
Miguel Cabrera just as an all around great hitter who
also has power.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, it's almost like he had a father that was
really good baseball. A lot of stuff, but he's doing
and this is what I love, and this is this
is this is what we're talking about with the Blue
Jays right now. He's playing the game. He's playing the game. Hey,
he sees the game. He understands the game. He's not
a robot out there. He doesn't have he doesn't need
something in his back pocket, tone, no where to stand,
(26:42):
he doesn't need to be alerted to situations. He's in
advance of the situation. He has been taught. Well. I
just saw a video with Tony.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Battel right with the manager of the Giants yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
He was lamenting to I think it was Greg Olsen's podcast,
how fundamentals are not being taught, and he got tired
of that with young is. I don't know if it's
coming to camps or whatever, but a noticeable disconnect between
baseball as it should be taught and how these kids
are more concerned again about being best in show, exit, velocities,
(27:16):
walk up music. I mean, I'm becoming a fan of
this fella already just by listening to him a little bit.
So that's it. That's what's being taught. But these young
guys are coming up. They're not liberal arts. They are
specializing or specialists. They're English majors and only take English
courses or math and only take math whatever. They don't
have a broad base. They don't read anybody, they don't
(27:36):
philosophize about anybody. They just do one thing, and that's try.
Like you said, lift the bon in the airs, right,
I said, okay, if I grab a walk, that's wonderful defense.
I run through some drills, I throw the ball over there,
et cetera, et cetera. But there's no real feel. And
that's why it's so refreshing to see this and of
course he has an advantage. He's Latino. Man. These guys,
(27:57):
that's they've grown up. Brother. They do that. I've always
talked to you about the Puerto Rican baseball player, which
I love. Think Puerto Rican baseball players on my ticky
than I still stay in touch with Richard, Alex Cora,
Davey Martinez has Puerto Rican background. All these guys really
know the game.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Man.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
When I have a conversation with them, it's so cool
to see how they break it down and the things
that they see that somebody else doesn't see. I would wish,
I would hope that as you move it forward, that's
where instructional leagues are so important. It's where the minor
leagues are so important. That's why I guess I'm going
to root for the Blue Jays the rest of the
way for sure, now that my eyes are wide open.
Play the game. Play the complete game. Understand the complete game,
(28:37):
so that when you get in tight moments, you could
you don't have to get the ball with the wall
necessarily to win it. You can do other things to
win it, whether it's on the basis, which they're very good.
How about how about last scoring and just tapping the
home plate. That slide coming into the plate, that's all.
That's all instinctive. It's intuitive. It's just it's not taught.
I mean, that's just the feel for the game. Jimmy
Edmonds is the best slider I've ever seen. Jimmy Edmonds
(28:58):
played the game so Ruben Tomorrow, my boy Ben with
the Stanford and when he liked what somebody did, he
would just blurt it out real loud. You could really
play the game. And I love that phrase. Not talked
about enough.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Yeah, it's interesting, Joe. I'm with you on the Blue Jays.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I think there's a real contrast that we've seen over
the first four games that you know, the Dodgers to me,
have the edge and talent, pure talent. Right, if you
have a showcase and you can get everybody out there
and you're picking up sides, you're going to pick more
Dodgers than Blue Jays. And it's the way the Blue
Jays play baseball. First of all, the way they've been
pitching has been fantastic. They're throwing a very low percentage
of fastballs. I think they're down to about forty four percent.
(29:38):
It's one of the lowest that we've seen in the
World Series in the last twenty years. They're mixing it
up well on the mountain, they're running the base as well.
They put the ball in play. You've seen these rallies
that happened in a heartbeat right last night, and well
in Game four they scored what was it, four runs
in the span of twenty twenty one pitches, and they've
done that throughout the postseason and the Dodgers again, it's interesting.
Dave Roberts Idea was like, this is almost like a
(30:00):
football team, Joe, that has more talent than the other team.
You're going to play straight up, right the team has
less talent, They're gonna have to put some trick plays
in play.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Straight up, you're gonna lose the game.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
So David's one reason he stayed with Pajes is you
also don't want to signal to your guys that hey,
something's to miss here.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
You know, he wants to make sure they know they're
the better team.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
But now they're at the point where he has to
change that, and I think he will make a lineup
change now. He doesn't have great options. You know, Alex
call Migey Rojas. You know, I'm gonna Sure those are
serious changing moves, but now the Jays have dented them
enough that they're going to have to do something a
little bit different that they're not going to out talent
this team.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
That's where I see the series has changed.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
That's awesome, that's great stuff right there. I love all
of that. You're right, you know, you just you got
me going today. I mean you're talking, you're describing the
ascension of the Tampa Bay Rays when you have to
beat the Yankees. The Red Sox Toronto was very good
at that point. They had great pitching, play the game.
I mean, it's not that complicated. It just takes time
to teach the entire game, and you have to have
(31:02):
people that know how to teach the entire game. Honestly,
you just can't put anybody out there instructionally speaking, to
teach the fundamentals of the game. Well, I'm just I'm sorry.
That's that, that is true. You can't put So what
do you want? Do you want? Do you want the
game fundamentally played to a standard that you know that
you're describing. We're describing with the Blue Jays right now,
that is like really artistic fun to watch painted a
(31:26):
butt to the other side, et cetera. Or do you
want to emphasize the game that's played more with a
laptop or a computer whatever. Hawk guys all these different
different ways to evaluate spin, where the ball's placed on
the hand, or launch angles, et cetera. What game do
you want to play? Why can't you play both games?
That's that's my point. Why can't you play both games?
(31:47):
I think obviously, I'm sure the Blue Jays imbibe in
a lot of these the new tech they have to.
Of course they do another front office, but at the
same point they have obviously imbibed in the school of
what's happening now. I'm not old school, I'm not a
new school. I'm in school. And that's to me that
that's always we've discussed this, that's always been a concern
(32:08):
of mine or bothered me. I think when it comes
down to truly, what bothers me about today's game is
the polarity. Like it's either you're either all in on
this side or you're all in on that side. It's
it's very difficult to balance both. And when you see
it in action, which I think you're we're describing, the
Blue Jays are that there they are in school in action.
That's what's fun, and that's what's I think. I don't
(32:29):
even know what the televised rate is or what the
people tuning in to the number is, but those that
have and the people I speak with absolutely entertained by
this whole thing. And it's almost it's almost a David
and Goliath, although you know, David is really showing that
he's more than that. But that's it. It's the difference,
that dichotomy between just doing it one way or the
other as opposed to homogenizing both sides.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Well, we wound up with a really good World series.
No matter what happens the rest of the way.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
We know the series is going back to Toronto for
at least Game six, and maybe we get a Game
seven as well.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
But it's been a good one. I think it's better
than a lot of people thought.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
And we had an all time classic with the eighteen
inning game, and we'll see what lies ahead which brings
us here to the ninth inning. Joe, you being the closer,
you've got the ball in your hands.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
How are you going to end this episode of the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I think we're pretty good. I think we're pretty good.
You know. It's like Tony Battello getting this opportunity to
manage in with the giants. Again. I needed to know
more about him, and I did. I've been researching it
briefly slightly, and I've really I understand it. And then
it brought me to former great college coaches because I
was a scout starting in nineteen eighty one, and brother
I was around the best. I mean, all these college coaches.
(33:39):
These guys were outstanding, and I knew that I loved
the academic process to the game at that time, and
it was actually turned off by the professional process, being
that I didn't think that was it was organized enough
or that it was sophisticated enough. That was my concern
at that time. So again, when as I grew up,
I tried to balance both sides. Augia Gurto Augi Gurrito
is one of the more fascinating coaches I met. He
(34:01):
was at cal State Fullerton at that time. Our common
friend was Kenny Riviza. Kenny was the sports psychologist, mental
skills coach passed away recently a couple of years ago,
and he was Augie's guy, and then he became my guy.
But he would always give me Augie stuff, and I'm
here to tell you, man, if you get a chance
to go and you're gonna get violent times. I mean,
Aggie's going to tell you what he thinks, man. And
(34:22):
I love that. I love the fire and his speeches,
but the content is so good. So I found this
video and I don't have it like as a word
for ward, like a quote, but if you get a chance,
it's Aggie talking about the importance of baseball in life
for a baseball player. I'm going to just paraphrase a
couple of things here. Baseball is important because of what
(34:45):
it does for you. Causes maturity helps aid immaturity become
more mentally tough, and you learn how to outcompete the
other side. God do I love that. We're just talking
about show Hey and a lot of these better players
athletes they don't need they don't need globs of intel
before the game. They need to just be able to
out compete. That's something he's to talk to KB about.
(35:05):
Chris Bryant, how old you are twenty four? Okay, you've
been Rooky of the Year, You've been MVP, you were
a College Player of the Year. Your pedigree is ridiculous.
So all you have left to do on an that
lead basis is go up there and out compete the
other side. You don't need to really think about a
whole lot of stuff. You are twenty five, you're a
good looking guy, you're tall, you could play several positions,
you could run. Now, go out and just want to
(35:28):
beat the other guy out compete. The next point he
made was that it helps baseball helps you to find
your courage to make your own decisions and act on
your own thoughts. God do I love that, which ends
up to be what life is all about. I'm not
going to keep going on and on, but that, really,
I thought was encapsulates everything he was trying to say
(35:49):
to his team. And I mean dropped the few f bombs,
et cetera, because that's who Aggi was. But God, his
content was so good. It was so good. So that's
what we're talking about, the maturity, the mental toughness, the
competing component of what the Blue Jays are showing right now.
Nothing there about anything but playing baseball hard. Fundamentally, of course,
we want information. I want as much I want better
(36:11):
information than the other team. I want to be able
to act and act upon that. However, at the moment
that the game is being played, this seven game world
series right now, the Blue Jays just attempting to becoming
successful at out competing the other side. That's what's going
to determine the true outcome.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Great stuff and a great matchup.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
It really really is the talent of the Dodgers against
the grit of the Blue Jays. I know that's over
simplifying things, but that's what we've seen through four games,
and maybe we'll get as many as three more left.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Great stuff, Joe, We'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Thank you, buddy, and listen, hang in there, man, you'll
get some sleep one of these days.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, November.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Okay, Well.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Aaron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast,
World Series Edition. This is Tom Berducci with Joe Madden
and Joe We got our sell as a series tired
(00:25):
after four games, down to a best out of three
with Toronto holding the home field advantage. Now, a lot
of people thought, and I'm sure you heard some of this, Joe,
Dodgers were just rolling and this was going to be
a four or five game series, selling this Toronto team short. Obviously,
what's your overall take thirty thousand feet and what we've
seen in four games, what might be ahead?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, I was one of those guys. I thought it
was Dodgers in five. That was my prediction when you
had asked earlier. What I'm seeing is I underestimated the
grit of the Blue Jays, I quite frankly did. I
got to see them during the season, and you see
them a lot against the Yankees and some others, obviously
a lot of the Al East team. So I watched
them and they came across well, but not like this.
(01:07):
The kid Lucas really ten year minor league this see
this guy here gets not nearly enough credit for me.
I mean the way he is at batcher that professional.
I mean, there really are, They're so good. The fact
that Vladdie really has, you know, found his voice with
his bat right now, that's outstanding. I love all of
that bar show. For everything that I thought they didn't
(01:30):
have in the past, they have right now. It's kind
of like this gritty, dirty blue collar representing a country
team that man, I didn't I swear to god I did.
I didn't see all that and you got to kill like,
was it Verlin? How do you say his name?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Varland, Louis and Louis everyday? Varland?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Right, they do? Eddie Wardado, I mean, all the stuff
that they're doing, and and Schneider John and the dougot
so stoic. There's times that looks like you might be
a little bit pissed, but he doesn't say anything. Donnie's
right there to calm everything down. There's a nice yinge
and Yango in there. So I was wrong. They are
more than i'd give them credit for. Part. The big
(02:06):
part of it is that Sharzer came through and Bieber
came through. I didn't. I didn't see that. I really
didn't honestly, you know, the first couple of guys you
could see that Savage and Gosman, but the next two
starters really shown better than I think anticipated. And then
I see even the bottom of the lineup by him,
it is I mean, my goodness. I mean, this guy
just works good at bad after good at bat. They're
(02:28):
so focused. So yes, they have met the Dodgers toe
to toe, and they deserve all the credit in the world.
I you know, at this point it's believable that they
could beat the Dodgers.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
One hundred percent. I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I mean, the lineup depth is something that really has
played out in the first four games. You know, coming in,
Dave Roberts, the Dodgers manager, was concerned about.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
The bottom of his lineup.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
You know, he called it some spots where the other
pitcher can catch the breath right where you don't get
stressed so much and you get a quick inning, and
then you can go attack the top of the lineup.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
It's exactly what's playing out here, Joe.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I mean, there's just too many easy out at the
bottom of the lineup, and there's very few in the
Toronto lineup. I mean, once that lineup gets rolling. You know,
I've said it. There's showtime Lakers. They played fast break baseball.
You throw anything near the plate, they're going to put
it in play. They don't stand around and wait for something,
you know, drive up pitch counts. And you mentioned Jimenez
and Ernie Clement is such a.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Love him player. I mean, Joe.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
He was released by an Oakland team two years ago
in spring training that was coming off one hundred and
twelve lost season. He goes home and he thought he
was done. He had two days. He said, it was
like the two longest days of my life. He said,
I had no idea what I would do. And the
Blue Jays picked him up. And here he is, just
one tough a bat after another. And I'll tell you this, Joe,
(03:47):
I don't know if you remember that eighteen in game
that Red Sox played against the Dodgers back in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You know Maximunts he ended it with walk off home run.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
That was the night where Alex Chorus did in front
of his group and they all literally gave a standing
ovation and Nathan Valdi for pitching six innings out of
the bullpen and saving the bullpen.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
They came back and they won the series. They won
the next day.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
And something very similar happened after the Blue Jays lost
in eighteen innings in Game three, where John Schneider stood
in front of his group and he said, this is
not going to turn into two losses.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
We are turning the page. That's exactly what they did.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I mean, I'm not surprised because this is what they do,
and John's already established a culture there where they are
gritty and you know, a grueling loss like that, you
invest so much into a game over eighteen innings and
six and a half hours, you might be wearing it
the next day.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Plus you've got George Springer out of the lineup.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Plus you've got Otani on the mound for the Dodgers,
who's never lost at Dodger Stadium. You know, on paper,
it's like that's it for the Blue Jays and just
so comfortable Joe in places that are uncomfortable, and they
come back the next day like, you know, nothing happened
the previous night. I mean, that's a credit to me
for the vibe they have with this group. Credit to
the manager and the staff.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
There's a lot there. First of all, Schneider saying something
see we've talked about I'm not a meeting guy, but
that happened with us with the Rays lost the double
hitter that year that we had the great comeback, the
greatest night and led to the greatest knight in baseball,
lost the double header Yankee Stadium in September, and I
was like, well, I got to do something here. So
I just went in there and reaffirmed, reassured, listen. Just
(05:21):
like John said, it's like we're turning the page and
moving it forward. We still got this et cetera, et cetera.
So I think that was a great move. Actually, guys
are fatigued, they're so bummed out. It's like it's it's
really hard, man, when you lose a hard fought game
like that that long takes you that long to lose
and all the things that have occurred. So that is
I think that is well timed. Not a speech, just
(05:42):
a quick phraser. Two. I love that now number two,
the National You got a National League line up right
with the Dodgers right now when you're talking about the
bottom of the batting order, and it's just like having
the pitcher and like a number eight hitter that really
didn't do a whole lot. But he was a good
defensive player. That's that's that's what they're dealing with right now.
And I could see that. I mean Paez, I mean
a nice player, a great year ago catcher, I mean
(06:04):
a good center fielder. But it's just not playing right now.
And I don't know that he can go away from that.
I don't know what the alternatives are, but it would
be surprised if they get together as a group talking
about the front office and possibly decide on somebody else
early in the game that might provide more offense and
then eventually bring piz in at the end of the
(06:25):
game for the defense. I don't think that's off the table.
We'll see. And last point, Clement, I love this guy.
He is. He's a non analytical maven. He's the he
gets released by Oakland because he doesn't check all the boxes.
The comp for me is like a David Fletcher. I
loved David Fletcher when I was with the Angels. I
(06:48):
couldn't get enough of him. He was just a flat winner,
just just did things to win the game, played multiple
positions extremely well, you had decent speed. He hurt his leg,
but the last year I was there. But to that point,
he could steal a base because he was smart, He
could play crap out a short stuff because he was smart,
get a big hit because he was smart, and he
(07:09):
was just a baseball player. So the way he fell
off a cliff really upset me because that's who Clement is.
I always thought that David would have been perfect, like
say for the Yankees as an example, a really good team,
because on a really good team they could spot him
in different spots and you could he could just be
that Swiss army knife kind of guy that could do
(07:31):
so many different things. That's what I see with Clement.
I really dig on this guy, and this is the
kind of guy that doesn't get enough play minor league wise.
Moving into a major league situation, he's always going to
arrive with the caveat well he can't do this and
he can't do that. Well, you know what, maybe the
power is not there, maybe you know, the analytical stuff
(07:52):
is not completely there, but I'll tell you what. The
heartbeat is there. The thought process is outstanding. The instinct
for the game is way way above average, which say
on a scale of twenty eighty being excellent, it's eighty.
So hopefully with his success right now, you're going to
see more opportunities for guys like this. And like I said,
(08:12):
it's easier to I believe, carry off in a good
team as opposed to just a SOSO team, because the
SOSO team's trying to assent it. They're always going to
go for the athlete. They're trying to get better athletically analytically,
where the really good team needs a guy to pop
in there to just complete them. And that's what he
does with the Blue Jays.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, it's interesting, Isaiah kind of Leffa told me the
Blue Jays are trying to change baseball. He said, we
want to bring baseball back to baseball now. This is
the guy who played for the Yankees, and he said,
with the Yankees, it was all about getting the ball
in the air to the poll side. It was about
hitting home runs, and ground balls were more than just
frowned upon, very much so discouraged.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
He said.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
With the Blue Jays, it's not that people want to
hit the ball on the ground. But as he told me,
there are times where hitting the ball hard on the
ground to get a base hit is in play. You
don't always want to get the ball in the air,
which leads to a ton of pop ups and swing
and miss. So there's a certain freedom that Blue Jays
hitters have that if they do hit the ball on
the ground, nobody's going to show them an analytical sheet saying,
(09:16):
you know, your launch angle's.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Not good, you got to get the ball in the air.
So there's a certain freedom there.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
They hitting coach David Popkins as this philosophy like he
wants to be like.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
A boxer who can do it all.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
You can jab, you can throw haymakers, fight as many
ways as you can to score runs. And as they said,
IKF said, we are trying to change baseball. It's been
a long time when somebody won the World Series playing
offense that way. The last five years all the World
champions have been in the top four in home runs.
But this is the team now has got a chance
(09:45):
if they win to the next three.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Talked about that exactly. It's so cool to hear all
that stuff. You know, if you wait around long enough
that bell bottom jeans are going to come back in style.
And I got a leisure suit in the other room.
I swear I do that. Hopefully I'll be able to
work down Tampa this winter. When I was a young
hitting instructor Rick Down, I mean, these are Jimmy Lefever
like really good hitting coaches that I was around. I
(10:08):
worked with Benny directly. I worked directly with Rick Down,
and I worked indirectly but around Jimmy lef Feber a lot.
These guys were kind of like the gurus of their days. Now. Benny,
BENNI Hines always promoted back spin. That was Benny. That's
almost like the latter day. Get the ball in the air.
That's what Ben was all about. So you took BP
(10:30):
and I utilized this a lot, working off a tee
and I used to have something called an air teeer.
The ball would actually float above the top of this
team because of a stream of air and then really
spun like crazy, and when you hit the ball, it
actually felt like a ball was pitched. So the whole
thing was to really almost like cut the ball and
half chop the ball and half so you're still getting
kind of like this level downward kind of swing to
(10:51):
the approach. However, the ball was still going to go
in the air. That was Benny. He was like the guy,
the first guy that I really heard preached that rick
down more rick was more like hard ground balls and
line drives. That was another thought of the day, Hard
ground balls and line drives. That's what we talked as
we felt fly balls are out, especially if you're a
little guy. The fly ball wasn't out, fly ball wasn't
going over the wall. Why put the ball in the air.
(11:14):
Put the ball on the ground, heart on a line,
hard on a line drive specifically, and then that would
be cause you to become the best hitter you possibly
can become. So when you hear all this stuff about
the fly ball, and that's what all that's because that's
what guys get paid for. Like you said, that's the
soup dejur right now. So for me, God, it would
be so wonderful if kind of Filifa Lefa keeps up
(11:36):
that language and the Blue Jays move forward and show
that there is more than one way to skin a
cat and win a World Series and then all because
it is it is. We are a copycat industry, there's
no question about it. And I do believe this, I
mean I wanted all. I believe it's easier to teach
that method. The method easier to teach is the hard
(11:57):
ground ball, line drive method, where you have a two
strike approach. You move the ball with two strikes, and
you could It's hard to increase walks if a guy's
DNA is a swing to bat Bobashett as an example,
if a guy's really a swinger of the bat, it's
hard to get him to walk more, but you can
get him to strike out less. I think by having
an approach, a metal approach, adaptations during the course of
(12:19):
that bad flexibility. All those are the kind of things
I used to preach. So you got me wound up
because between talking about Clement Fletcher and all this other
kind of stuff, line drive hard ground ball theory. If
they would just compensate, if somehow compensation got around to
contact somehow and playing the actual game fundamentally and that
(12:40):
was rewarded. I've always I've actually written stuff about this
back in the nineties, in the eighties. That would be
a wonderful place to exist.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Liberal arts, baseball do a little bit of everything, right.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
I'm all in favor of it. It's fun watching this
team play offensive baseball, for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Hey, Joe, we're gonna take a quick break when we
get back. We really need to talk about show.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Hey, o Tani.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
He continues to amaze us, and we'll dive into that
right after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome back
to the Book of Joe. Joey Otani. Joe, I mean
(13:21):
he is. We saw that incredible eighteen in the game
where he gets on base nine times, four extra base hits,
two home runs, including the game tying home run.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
But I actually thought we saw that.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
This guy is in fact human in game number four,
I mean, now was a huge ask to come back
and start that game. I actually thought going into that
day that they might just have him as a pitcher
only in that game. Because he expended so much energy,
his body was cramping. They had to make sure he
was hydrated in the course of the game and afterwards.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
And you saw him pitch really well.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I mean, he competes, there's no doubt about that. But
he did not have his really good top line fastball
in that game. And then in the seventh thing it
started with two base hits when his fastball was down
to ninety six. There was attacks for show hey, for
everything that he did. Really, it's the most exhausting base
running game in World Series history. Based nine times in
(14:12):
the course of six and a half hours and then
turning around seventeen hours later and having to start the game.
But again I thought he pitched well, but he didn't
have his top line fastball. What'd you see exactly?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I mean, he was pulling a lot of fists fastballs,
and I think that's just from trying to manufacture something
that you don't necessarily feel. Joe Coleman, really great pitching coach,
always insisted with the pitchers that if you're not feeling something,
don't try to manufacture it. Just stay, you know, within
your confine, smooth it out, and try to locate the
ball better. Just from that less stressful way of throwing,
(14:46):
you're gonna find what you're looking for. But the moment
you start trying to manufacture something, mechanics break down, and
with that happens the location. So that's he did. He
just competed, and I thought I was actually surprised he
went out in the seventh. I know everything was kind
of okay right there, but I thought, even before the game,
I said, my god, if he gets six, god bless
him six innings and and and it was like what
(15:08):
two to one at that point, Yeah, that would have
been beautiful. I was really That's the part that surprised
me a little bit. But to his you're right is
that bats were going to be less than I felt
the same way. But you still got a plan if
he if he can go and he's what else is
he gonna do there? I mean, they're they're struggling for
offense the way it is, so he's gonna have to
do that anyhow. They might just walk him just because
(15:30):
and then then you got another base runner. But I
thought six was plenty for him. It still indicates how
different he is and how great he is by even
going six plus and and keeping the Dodgers in the end,
there were just both sides were tired. It was obvious.
I thought that the Dodgers appeared to be more tired
than the Blue Jays did. But yeah, I mean, show, hey,
that's incredible, And so I thought six would have been
(15:52):
good enough, and I think everybody would have been happy
at that point.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
The Dodgers looked flat. Now, Shane Beeber did a really
good job. I mean he threw only twenty seven percent fastballs.
I mean his secondary stuff was you know, in and out,
up and down, back and forth. You know, it was
a great job. Of making pitches. But yeah, I mean
Will Smith catches all eighteen innings. I mean he did
not have good at bats. I mean there's a cost
(16:15):
for this coming back so quickly after a game like that.
And you know, I agree with you on Show Hayes
at bats they weren't necessarily great. You know, when you
watch where I Am down field level Joe and you
watch show Hey, you're even more amazed because this is
a starting pitcher in the World Series game, pitches the
top of the first inning and he's leading off the
bottom of the first inning, so he didn't have time
to go down into the dugout and relax, take a drink.
(16:36):
They have to bring all his gear out. He's got
all the protective gear for the arm, the elbow, the
foot and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
You know, the first at bat, he didn't even take
a practice swing.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I mean, it takes a while for him to get
off the mound, be checked by the umpires, get.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
All his gear on.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
He went up to the plate without taking a practice swing.
In between innings when he's going out to the mound.
He made sure he stayed in the clubhouse for a
very long time, came out late. You know, he's only
throwing like four or five warm up pitches. I thought
this game especially, it was a conservation of energy to
get through this game. But people have to realize how
difficult it is from a physical point of view. And
I've talked to some Dodger people about this. You know,
(17:11):
it's almost it's almost incredible that the physical toll of
what he does now as a full two way player,
it's taxing on the body. I don't know how long
you can keep this up. Obviously, he's one of a kind.
I never doubt him. His mind strength, mind over matter
is just remarkable.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Dave Roberts was comparing him to like an ultra marathon
runner or a Navy seal.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
You know, he just will not be denied. He's just
a cut above others. But I'm telling you, Joe that
the physical toll of it, you can see it in
the course of a game.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
And it's pretty warm there last night too, was actually
sweating pretty good to look like. See. That's for me.
That's why I debated with that with him when we
were playing at home, to hit him second and not first.
For the reason you're talking about when you're on the road,
not so much of a deal. I did the same thing.
I think with Wilson Contreras as a catcher, whenever hitting
a catcher lead off, the same thing after if you're
at home first stating z Olver, he comes running in,
(18:03):
it's got to change up, get his gear off, get
the get his bat, and get ready for that first
at bats. It was also a home road split with
my thinking with that. I can't remember specifically how often
I did that, but I know that was part of
my thought process to hit him second for those reasons, because.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
When he was JOSEL two wanted to stop hitting leadoff
once he moved to the outfield.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
For that very reason.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
You know you're running in from left field, you got
it yourself. Hurry up and get ready for the first
a B. He's like, put me second.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I hit a little bit of time.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, that's the when we first when show Hay started
to pitch and hit simultaneously, even when we did it
within National League rules, I hit him second specifically for
all those reasons. Even though I like to listen, I
like him hitting lead off. There's I'm not arguing that point,
but just for his own edification and his abilities just
to slow things down a bit. It wouldn't be a
bad idea. Like, for instance, I hit Betts first, Show second.
(18:53):
You could even pop somebody else starting it pretty fourth.
But although Freddie don't care, so I would. That's the thing.
Everybody's afraid to stack lefties. It's okay to stack rightings,
but you can't stack lefties. However, if you're lefty, can
hit lefties, it doesn't matter. It's like Kyle Tucker can
hit a lefty, it doesn't matter. More recently, Schwerbrick can
hit a lefty, it doesn't matter. I mean, so I
think sometimes that's overplayed it. You got to understand what
(19:15):
you got going on. But I always felt to protect
Showhay somehow, batting second, especially when he's pitching at home,
is not a bad way to go.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I want to get your take on this, Joe.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
You know, running an eighteen inning game like that, it
becomes a manager's game. And I thought the experienced difference
between Dave Roberts and John Schneider showed up in that game.
You know, John went through a lot of his players
early in that game. I mean partly, you know, not
his fault. Bobi Schet was limited. They can't run him
out there to play a full nine innings at this point,
playing defense and offense. He came out of the game.
(19:46):
Of course, George Springer got hurt. He came out of
the game. But at that point your bench is already short.
And there was a point where he pinched ran Miles
Straw for Addison Barger. This is like a minuscule difference
in foot speed between the two of them. Adison Barger
is one of his better hitters, Miles Straw is not.
That was a big downgrade. There was no not a
big upgrade offensively, and I thought Dave Roberts did a
(20:08):
better job just kind of waiting for the game to
play out and kind of saving his gunpower. Reminds me
of Joe Tory running the nineteen ninety six World Series.
Times he could have popped Weaight Boggs into that game,
and he had him at the end against Steve Avery
bases loaded draws, a walk wins the game. The experience
of running these big games, and I asked John about
it and he said, this is what we've done all year,
(20:29):
which is an answer I hate.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
By the way, because he's done it all.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Year doesn't mean you have to do it in the postseason,
these games are played very differently. But he said, if
we have an incremental edge, we're going to go for it.
And that's the way we did it all year. I'm
not taking up Edison Barger out of the lineup when
my bench is already short. In that game, the game
kept coming around till all of his bench players who
were in the game. He took out his catcher, he
took out his dh you know, he took out as
I mentioned, Barger, and the bench guys basically didn't do.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Anything as the game kept coming around to there at bats.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
So give me your thought when you're running these kind
of games and you know, using bench players. I know
you're not playing for eighteen the things that's a rarity.
But without the run around second base, you do have
to protect for some length.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, I mean the old way of the old rules,
when there was no run around second base, even in
a regular season, that was always a concern. You'd always
in your back of your mind. You could see it
all setting up. And it really comes down to pitching. Also,
who are you holding back? Who's you going to save?
Although you can't really save anybody in a playoff game,
But yourself. Have to be mindful that it can run
into this, and that's when you start having conversations with
(21:30):
starting pitchers. During the course of the game. You go
up to your pitchy coach and say, listen, if this
gets at this point, talk to Lackey or Acre or
whatever and say this is a possibility. So you start
putting it in their heads. I'll say this thought about this.
I was asked the question a couple of days ago
or yesterday. More runs for Schwerbert right in the extra
first extra inning in the Indian game, So flagball Olmore
(21:53):
is able to tag up in advance where Shorbwood may
not have, and that eventually leads to Cubs going ahead
comes winning the game. So you're taking out on a
significant bat in Shorbert, who was really hot at that
time for Albert. But that was our take. But on
top of that, though, Schwarves did have a bad leg
and so that all made sense. But then on the
other hand, the Indians make the last out of the
game because Martinez is hitting, because they took Coco Crisp
(22:15):
out because there was a thread of us scoring earlier
and Crisp's arm was so bad, so they bring in
the guy that could throw better. And then, of course,
the last out of the twenty sixteen World Series game
in the game seven, Montgomery versus Martinez, who cannot hit
a left tended curveball, really worked in our advantage, where
as you'd much rather see that than Coco Crisp, but
the player who had been replaced because of defensive purposes,
(22:35):
because we had runner and scoring position and could have scored,
so they put the better arm out there. There's so
many things you have to think about during the course
of the game. I'll say this, the thing that started
for me was like Bushett as a second basement. If
in fact, you know he's gonna you're gonna take him
out in the latter part of the game, I'd be
very reticent hitting him behind a goodrero And I know
you got a big hit on the bar ball down
(22:56):
a ryfield line. But if you know you're gonna replace
him later, that leaves Lad naked. Just it just does
so that that'd be one thing, even though worked out
accordingly that way, game in progress, I don't want whomever's
coming off the bench unless I felt good about this replacement,
hit it behind last. I would have definitely put somebody else,
a lefty before that, maybe with Barger, or it could
(23:16):
have been Varshow something like that behind Vladimir in that situation.
So these are all the considerations. So I'm just I guess,
I don't know if I'm answering the question or not.
But you do try to hold back an opportunity to
win the game. You want to kill yourself if you
don't run for Kirk. Now here's the thing about Kirk.
If he's on first base only I probably would not
have run for him right there in that situation.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Well, yeah, it is he's he was bunting Miles Straw
and there's no way you can bunt Kirk to second base.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
He's going to get thrown out.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Of course. I mean, then you don't do that. My
point is you would then you would then if Kirk
arrives at second base, then you would do it.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I say, you would not bunt with Miles Straw with
Kirk at first base.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
It'd be tough. I mean, that's like Jame Molina. I
mean I would not bunt. I wouldn't try to bunch
Jame Molina to second base.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
But if you do decide you have to pinch, run
for him.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Correct, Yes, correct, you do. That's right, one hundred percent.
That goes hand in hand. You would have had to
have done that. My point is, he who was Straw
hitting for you already in the game, is already in
the game.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Right, Yeah, he's the one who came in for Barger.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, that's that's a that's a different kettle of fish,
as they say up in Canada. Right. So that's the point.
All these the world changes on all these particular decisions
that are being made, and so then you have to react. Yes,
you cannot b Jamo over the second, you would even
try Kirk, You're not gonna bun him over the second.
Can't even try so Dust if you're gonna want to
butt him. The other option would be, like I said,
(24:38):
just let Straw hit. I mean, that's your option. And
if Kirk does happen to be at second base with
like even one out, then I would run for him
for sure. So I would never know what I would done.
I could only could create conjecture you've never known to
you actually are in that situation, But those are the
thoughts that would I would have been conjuring at that
particular moment.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Hey, Joe, we're gonna take another quick break here when
we get back. I want to get your take on
Vladimir Guerrero Junior. I mean, we knew he was a
great hitter, but I think folks are finding out watching
him play here throughout this month of October. He is
on a special level and I want to get your
take on what he does. So well, we'll do that
right after this.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Welcome Back to the Book of Joe podcast. Joe.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I mentioned Black Guerrero Junior, and what a series, what
a postseason is having watching this guy on both sides
of the baseball.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
He's got tremendous court awareness.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
At one point he alerted Max Scherzer he was tipping
his pitches. There was a play, whereas in Barger, the
right fielder with just a candidate for an arm could
have tried to throw the runner ound at home when
he really didn't have a play and it was Glad
who motion throw to third base.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
They throw the runner out at third base. It was
a great play.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And when what he does with his swing, I mean,
I've seen him take cutters off the plate when he's
sitting on the pitch and just drill it up to
center field. You saw him to take a change up
from Blake's now, which is a pretty good pitch, and
just pull that in the hole. And of course he
got a hanging sweeper from shoey Otani and hit it
out of the park. If you talk about Swiss Army
Knights with power and the ability to put the ball
in play, I gotta put this guy. And this is
(26:15):
high praise on a level with guys like Albert poo Holson,
Miguel Cabrera just as an all around great hitter who
also has power.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, it's almost like he had a father that was
really good baseball. A lot of stuff, but he's doing
and this is what I love, and this is this
is this is what we're talking about with the Blue
Jays right now. He's playing the game. He's playing the game. Hey,
he sees the game. He understands the game. He's not
a robot out there. He doesn't have he doesn't need
something in his back pocket, tone, no where to stand,
(26:42):
he doesn't need to be alerted to situations. He's in
advance of the situation. He has been taught. Well. I
just saw a video with Tony.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Battel right with the manager of the Giants yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
He was lamenting to I think it was Greg Olsen's podcast,
how fundamentals are not being taught, and he got tired
of that with young is. I don't know if it's
coming to camps or whatever, but a noticeable disconnect between
baseball as it should be taught and how these kids
are more concerned again about being best in show, exit, velocities,
(27:16):
walk up music. I mean, I'm becoming a fan of
this fella already just by listening to him a little bit.
So that's it. That's what's being taught. But these young
guys are coming up. They're not liberal arts. They are
specializing or specialists. They're English majors and only take English
courses or math and only take math whatever. They don't
have a broad base. They don't read anybody, they don't
(27:36):
philosophize about anybody. They just do one thing, and that's try.
Like you said, lift the bon in the airs, right,
I said, okay, if I grab a walk, that's wonderful defense.
I run through some drills, I throw the ball over there,
et cetera, et cetera. But there's no real feel. And
that's why it's so refreshing to see this and of
course he has an advantage. He's Latino. Man. These guys,
(27:57):
that's they've grown up. Brother. They do that. I've always
talked to you about the Puerto Rican baseball player, which
I love. Think Puerto Rican baseball players on my ticky
than I still stay in touch with Richard, Alex Cora,
Davey Martinez has Puerto Rican background. All these guys really
know the game.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Man.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
When I have a conversation with them, it's so cool
to see how they break it down and the things
that they see that somebody else doesn't see. I would wish,
I would hope that as you move it forward, that's
where instructional leagues are so important. It's where the minor
leagues are so important. That's why I guess I'm going
to root for the Blue Jays the rest of the
way for sure, now that my eyes are wide open.
Play the game. Play the complete game. Understand the complete game,
(28:37):
so that when you get in tight moments, you could
you don't have to get the ball with the wall
necessarily to win it. You can do other things to
win it, whether it's on the basis, which they're very good.
How about how about last scoring and just tapping the
home plate. That slide coming into the plate, that's all.
That's all instinctive. It's intuitive. It's just it's not taught.
I mean, that's just the feel for the game. Jimmy
Edmonds is the best slider I've ever seen. Jimmy Edmonds
(28:58):
played the game so Ruben Tomorrow, my boy Ben with
the Stanford and when he liked what somebody did, he
would just blurt it out real loud. You could really
play the game. And I love that phrase. Not talked
about enough.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Yeah, it's interesting, Joe. I'm with you on the Blue Jays.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I think there's a real contrast that we've seen over
the first four games that you know, the Dodgers to me,
have the edge and talent, pure talent. Right, if you
have a showcase and you can get everybody out there
and you're picking up sides, you're going to pick more
Dodgers than Blue Jays. And it's the way the Blue
Jays play baseball. First of all, the way they've been
pitching has been fantastic. They're throwing a very low percentage
of fastballs. I think they're down to about forty four percent.
(29:38):
It's one of the lowest that we've seen in the
World Series in the last twenty years. They're mixing it
up well on the mountain, they're running the base as well.
They put the ball in play. You've seen these rallies
that happened in a heartbeat right last night, and well
in Game four they scored what was it, four runs
in the span of twenty twenty one pitches, and they've
done that throughout the postseason and the Dodgers again, it's interesting.
Dave Roberts Idea was like, this is almost like a
(30:00):
football team, Joe, that has more talent than the other team.
You're going to play straight up, right the team has
less talent, They're gonna have to put some trick plays
in play.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Straight up, you're gonna lose the game.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
So David's one reason he stayed with Pajes is you
also don't want to signal to your guys that hey,
something's to miss here.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
You know, he wants to make sure they know they're
the better team.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
But now they're at the point where he has to
change that, and I think he will make a lineup
change now. He doesn't have great options. You know, Alex
call Migey Rojas. You know, I'm gonna Sure those are
serious changing moves, but now the Jays have dented them
enough that they're going to have to do something a
little bit different that they're not going to out talent
this team.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
That's where I see the series has changed.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
That's awesome, that's great stuff right there. I love all
of that. You're right, you know, you just you got
me going today. I mean you're talking, you're describing the
ascension of the Tampa Bay Rays when you have to
beat the Yankees. The Red Sox Toronto was very good
at that point. They had great pitching, play the game.
I mean, it's not that complicated. It just takes time
to teach the entire game, and you have to have
(31:02):
people that know how to teach the entire game. Honestly,
you just can't put anybody out there instructionally speaking, to
teach the fundamentals of the game. Well, I'm just I'm sorry.
That's that, that is true. You can't put So what
do you want? Do you want? Do you want the
game fundamentally played to a standard that you know that
you're describing. We're describing with the Blue Jays right now,
that is like really artistic fun to watch painted a
(31:26):
butt to the other side, et cetera. Or do you
want to emphasize the game that's played more with a
laptop or a computer whatever. Hawk guys all these different
different ways to evaluate spin, where the ball's placed on
the hand, or launch angles, et cetera. What game do
you want to play? Why can't you play both games?
That's that's my point. Why can't you play both games?
(31:47):
I think obviously, I'm sure the Blue Jays imbibe in
a lot of these the new tech they have to.
Of course they do another front office, but at the
same point they have obviously imbibed in the school of
what's happening now. I'm not old school, I'm not a
new school. I'm in school. And that's to me that
that's always we've discussed this, that's always been a concern
(32:08):
of mine or bothered me. I think when it comes
down to truly, what bothers me about today's game is
the polarity. Like it's either you're either all in on
this side or you're all in on that side. It's
it's very difficult to balance both. And when you see
it in action, which I think you're we're describing, the
Blue Jays are that there they are in school in action.
That's what's fun, and that's what's I think. I don't
(32:29):
even know what the televised rate is or what the
people tuning in to the number is, but those that
have and the people I speak with absolutely entertained by
this whole thing. And it's almost it's almost a David
and Goliath, although you know, David is really showing that
he's more than that. But that's it. It's the difference,
that dichotomy between just doing it one way or the
other as opposed to homogenizing both sides.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Well, we wound up with a really good World series.
No matter what happens the rest of the way.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
We know the series is going back to Toronto for
at least Game six, and maybe we get a Game
seven as well.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
But it's been a good one. I think it's better
than a lot of people thought.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
And we had an all time classic with the eighteen
inning game, and we'll see what lies ahead which brings
us here to the ninth inning. Joe, you being the closer,
you've got the ball in your hands.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
How are you going to end this episode of the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I think we're pretty good. I think we're pretty good.
You know. It's like Tony Battello getting this opportunity to
manage in with the giants. Again. I needed to know
more about him, and I did. I've been researching it
briefly slightly, and I've really I understand it. And then
it brought me to former great college coaches because I
was a scout starting in nineteen eighty one, and brother
I was around the best. I mean, all these college coaches.
(33:39):
These guys were outstanding, and I knew that I loved
the academic process to the game at that time, and
it was actually turned off by the professional process, being
that I didn't think that was it was organized enough
or that it was sophisticated enough. That was my concern
at that time. So again, when as I grew up,
I tried to balance both sides. Augia Gurto Augi Gurrito
is one of the more fascinating coaches I met. He
(34:01):
was at cal State Fullerton at that time. Our common
friend was Kenny Riviza. Kenny was the sports psychologist, mental
skills coach passed away recently a couple of years ago,
and he was Augie's guy, and then he became my guy.
But he would always give me Augie stuff, and I'm
here to tell you, man, if you get a chance
to go and you're gonna get violent times. I mean,
Aggie's going to tell you what he thinks, man. And
(34:22):
I love that. I love the fire and his speeches,
but the content is so good. So I found this
video and I don't have it like as a word
for ward, like a quote, but if you get a chance,
it's Aggie talking about the importance of baseball in life
for a baseball player. I'm going to just paraphrase a
couple of things here. Baseball is important because of what
(34:45):
it does for you. Causes maturity helps aid immaturity become
more mentally tough, and you learn how to outcompete the
other side. God do I love that. We're just talking
about show Hey and a lot of these better players
athletes they don't need they don't need globs of intel
before the game. They need to just be able to
out compete. That's something he's to talk to KB about.
(35:05):
Chris Bryant, how old you are twenty four? Okay, you've
been Rooky of the Year, You've been MVP, you were
a College Player of the Year. Your pedigree is ridiculous.
So all you have left to do on an that
lead basis is go up there and out compete the
other side. You don't need to really think about a
whole lot of stuff. You are twenty five, you're a
good looking guy, you're tall, you could play several positions,
you could run. Now, go out and just want to
(35:28):
beat the other guy out compete. The next point he
made was that it helps baseball helps you to find
your courage to make your own decisions and act on
your own thoughts. God do I love that, which ends
up to be what life is all about. I'm not
going to keep going on and on, but that, really,
I thought was encapsulates everything he was trying to say
(35:49):
to his team. And I mean dropped the few f bombs,
et cetera, because that's who Aggi was. But God, his
content was so good. It was so good. So that's
what we're talking about, the maturity, the mental toughness, the
competing component of what the Blue Jays are showing right now.
Nothing there about anything but playing baseball hard. Fundamentally, of course,
we want information. I want as much I want better
(36:11):
information than the other team. I want to be able
to act and act upon that. However, at the moment
that the game is being played, this seven game world
series right now, the Blue Jays just attempting to becoming
successful at out competing the other side. That's what's going
to determine the true outcome.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Great stuff and a great matchup.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
It really really is the talent of the Dodgers against
the grit of the Blue Jays. I know that's over
simplifying things, but that's what we've seen through four games,
and maybe we'll get as many as three more left.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Great stuff, Joe, We'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Thank you, buddy, and listen, hang in there, man, you'll
get some sleep one of these days.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, November.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Okay, Well.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
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